Skeptoid - Skeptoid #141: Listener Feedback 6: I Want to Believe
Aired: 2009-02-17
Duration: 16:08


=== Answering Listener Feedback Questions (02:55) ===

[00:00:03]  The center of the Pacific Ocean, claims some, is a gigantic island of garbage, so thick you can walk on it, and said by many to be twice the size of Texas.
[00:00:14]  But if this is true, then why isn't it visible on Google Earth?
[00:00:18]  And Hawaii is right there in the center.
[00:00:21]  Why is there no sign of such a thing visible in Hawaii?
[00:00:24]  This is just one of many listener feedback questions we're answering today.
[00:00:30]  Right here on Skeptoid.
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[00:01:38]  You're listening to Skeptoid.
[00:01:39]  I'm Brian Dunning from Skeptoid.com.
[00:01:42]  Listener feedback 6.
[00:01:45]  I want to believe.
[00:01:48]  So I was sitting in the corner the other day, holding my knees and rocking back and forth, debating whether or not to read my email.
[00:01:55]  It was like John Lithgow in the Twilight Zone movie, or William Shatner in the original TV show, whichever you prefer, trying to muster the courage to open the shade and look out the airplane window for fear of seeing the terrible demon outside.
[00:02:10]  I sat and sat and sat, tension building all the while, and till at the very crescendo I threw open my laptop and there with a shriek of horror burst email after email of fallacies and personal insults.
[00:02:24]  And I screamed and tried to run but was wrestled to the floor and subdued.
[00:02:29]  I took some sedatives and I now proceed to address a few of these latest listener comments.
[00:02:36]  Jessica from Australia had some criticism of the way the skeptoid.com website is run.
[00:02:43]  I enjoy your approach to critical thinking.
[00:02:46]  However, I can't help but notice that as a person trying to look at all the evidence within a given situation, why only positive feedback is allowed on this website?

=== The Truth About Garbage Patches (04:45) ===

[00:02:58]  I'm not sure what website she's looking at because it's painfully clear from a glance at any episode transcript that comments are all over the map.
[00:03:07]  And generally, the more controversial the topic, the more angry the anti-Brian feedback is.
[00:03:13]  Now there are moderators who do delete a few comments a week, but only when the posts are either spam advertisements or are profane personal attacks against other posters that do not advance the discussion.
[00:03:25]  Sorry, Jessica, but you're just straight up wrong.
[00:03:28]  And you obviously didn't look very hard.
[00:03:32]  David had a comment about Here Be Dragons, my 40-minute video.
[00:03:37]  I strongly support encouraging more rational thinking in society, but how can you possibly include organically grown vegetables in your woo-woo video montage?
[00:03:49]  Why are you mixing flaky thinking with genuine issues?
[00:03:54]  It's shameful.
[00:03:56]  The assignment of magical super-vegetable powers to organic produce is one of the most pervasive pseudosciences in society.
[00:04:04]  Even you, David, who say you support rational thinking, seem to have bought into it.
[00:04:09]  There's nothing wrong with organic produce.
[00:04:12]  It's just grown less efficiently and is marketed as some kind of elite super product.
[00:04:18]  I did a full skeptoid show about it, episode 19, if you're interested in what my research has shown.
[00:04:25]  In short, proponents of organic produce claim that non-organic produce is somehow contaminated or morally wrong.
[00:04:34]  Well, maybe modern agriculture is morally wrong.
[00:04:37]  That's for you to decide for yourself.
[00:04:39]  But the scientific claims made about it are either demonstrably false or apply equally to organic produce.
[00:04:46]  Remember, the plant species are the same, and the fertilizers and pesticides used deliver the same chemical loads.
[00:04:55]  It's all about marketing.
[00:04:57]  You say that it's shameful of me to point this out.
[00:05:01]  Well, David, if you're going to be truly rational, sometimes you have to be willing to hear criticism of even your most sacred cows.
[00:05:10]  Go eat some soybeans.
[00:05:13]  Stephen from Stamford, Connecticut found fault with my episode about the Pacific Trash Vortex, an alleged solid conglomeration of floating plastic garbage in the middle of the Pacific.
[00:05:25]  There are photos of the Pacific Trash Vortex, and it's not hard to find them.
[00:05:30]  This episode comes across as blind denial of an actual documented phenomenon.
[00:05:36]  According to the photos and documentation, it is there, and it is floating at the surface.
[00:05:42]  I almost went away from this podcast secure in the knowledge that the Pacific garbage patch doesn't exist.
[00:05:49]  Thankfully, I did my own research, and so I won't look like a fool if it comes up in polite conversation.
[00:05:56]  I guess your own research consisted of looking at websites like Tree Hugger and Greenpeace.
[00:06:03]  It's true, there are many photographs on the web of floating garbage patches, and though these are often used to illustrate web articles about the Pacific garbage patch, you don't really have any way of knowing where those pictures were taken.
[00:06:17]  There are many such patches around the world, all close inshore and mainly around third-world harbors where they don't have any environmental laws.
[00:06:26]  Unless you clapped your hands over your ears and went, la la la, during my episode, you'll recall that the science makes it impossible for plastic to survive the one to five year journey that it takes to ride the surface currents to the center of the Pacific gyre.
[00:06:42]  Plastics, blasted by ultraviolet sunlight and agitated by surface currents, break down into Neusten plastic particles long before they could ever complete that journey.
[00:06:53]  Scientists closely monitor the amount of Neusten plastic found in the center of the gyre.
[00:06:59]  Of about 200 sample stations about the size of Olympic swimming pools, only half have been found to have detectable levels.
[00:07:08]  That's way cleaner than the water off any coast you've ever been to.
[00:07:12]  The science simply makes the Pacific garbage patch, at least the way the extremist websites describe it, impossible.
[00:07:20]  If you still won't accept that, just go to Hawaii, which is the exact center of the Pacific gyre.
[00:07:27]  If you can walk from island to island on floating trash from Asia, call me.
[00:07:37]  In a world that can feel overwhelming, spreading thoughtful, evidence-based content is one of the best ways to make a positive impact.

=== Stand Up For Reason And Truth (08:24) ===

[00:07:44]  Ask your local public radio station to air the Skeptoid Files, a 30-minute radio-friendly version of Skeptoid that pairs two related episodes promoting real science, true history, and critical thinking.
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[00:08:27]  You can even use the telephone.
[00:08:30]  I know that might sound crazy.
[00:08:31]  It's an old legacy device that allows real-time voice communication.
[00:08:36]  I know that's weird, but hey, it's an option.
[00:08:39]  The world can feel chaotic, but you're not powerless.
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[00:08:47]  And that's how we shape a better future.
[00:08:49]  In uncertain times, spreading good ideas can make you feel helpful, not helpless.
[00:08:56]  Let's stand up for reason, truth, and understanding together.
[00:09:00]  Get them to air the Skeptoid files from Skeptoid Media, available on the PRX Exchange, and they'll know what that is.
[00:09:14]  Adam from Israel had a really thoughtful comment about the episode on Raelians, the people who follow the French guy who calls himself Rail and teaches that space aliens seeded humanity and enhanced his intelligence.
[00:09:28]  The problem is that alien intelligence boosts and mind alterations in general wear off in the presence of radio waves.
[00:09:37]  Notice that the more prevalent cell phones have become, Rail's ability to convey his acquired intelligence has greatly diminished.
[00:09:45]  In fact, it seemed to start the minute he returned.
[00:09:48]  We may never know the real answers.
[00:09:52]  I don't really have a response to Adam.
[00:09:55]  I just thought you'd enjoy hearing his perspective.
[00:09:59]  We know that conspiracy theorists, especially the 9-11 truth guys, often support their claims with red herrings, pointing out things that are irrelevant, but that seem to raise suspicion.
[00:10:11]  South Park fans will recognize this as the Chewbacca defense.
[00:10:15]  Things like Marvin Bush had once been an executive at a security firm for whom the World Trade Center was a client.
[00:10:21]  Carl Mark from Canada feels that points such as these should be considered proof that George Bush executed the attacks.
[00:10:30]  My issue in general with people trying to disprove the conspiracy theorists is that they rarely attack their proof, but suggest that they are irrelevant instead.
[00:10:40]  Why not disprove them instead with the same effort and standards?
[00:10:46]  Marvin Bush did used to work there.
[00:10:48]  What's to disprove?
[00:10:50]  It's got nothing to do with anything.
[00:10:52]  You guys will sit with a stopwatch and see how many seconds it took for the World Trade Center to collapse and then challenge the engineers to disprove that time.
[00:11:02]  Nobody disagrees and nobody cares because it's got nothing to do with anything.
[00:11:07]  Carl Mark, red herrings are not proof of anything.
[00:11:11]  And this is where the disconnect really lies.
[00:11:13]  Go watch the Chewbacca defense.
[00:11:16]  Understand why it's silly, and then apply the same reasoning to all your supposed proofs of the 9-11 conspiracy.
[00:11:25]  I knew that my episode about fast food phobia would be a controversial one because the vilification of fast food is such a precious sacred cow to so many people.
[00:11:35]  Like so many other listeners, Zach from Chicago pulled a classic straw man argument and argued against essentially the opposite of what I said.
[00:11:45]  Folks, this is not the way to make a point.
[00:11:48]  Is the Skeptoid trying to claim that a diet high in salt, corn syrup, and saturated fat is not unhealthy?
[00:11:56]  Millions of diabetics would beg to differ.
[00:11:59]  In any case, this is one skeptoid article that needs a little critical treatment itself.
[00:12:05]  Are you claiming that the adage, eat food, not too much, mostly plants, is garbage and could be replaced by eat McDonald's?
[00:12:15]  I hate to even grace him with a reply since his comment is so profoundly disingenuous.
[00:12:21]  He knows darn well that I made no such statements.
[00:12:25]  But let's try it again.
[00:12:26]  No, Zach, I do not think you should eat a diet high in salt, corn syrup, and saturated fat, as I stated in precise detail in the episode.
[00:12:36]  Although maybe you should try it just to teach me a lesson.
[00:12:40]  The real point is that a salad from McDonald's is no worse than a salad from Whole Foods, simply because it bears the label fast food.
[00:12:49]  And a hamburger from McDonald's is no worse than a hamburger you make at home for the same reason.
[00:12:54]  McDonald's soft drinks, french fries, and pancakes have virtually the same ingredients as those same foods you eat at home.
[00:13:02]  If you do what Morgan Spurlock did and force-feed yourself thousands of calories too many milkshakes and french fries every day, you're going to gain weight and might even develop some other problems.
[00:13:15]  But it's because you grossly overeat.
[00:13:17]  It's not because the food came from a fast food restaurant.
[00:13:22]  Keep on trying with the straw man arguments though, people.
[00:13:25]  I'm not very good at spotting them and maybe you'll slip one by me.
[00:13:31]  An entity designated Thupton from New York had some comments that he said were about my free Tibet episode, though I can't say he addressed any of the issues very directly.
[00:13:43]  Get a life, man.
[00:13:45]  It a total waste of time to try and explain you that your claims are ridiculous.
[00:13:50]  But I would honestly like to express that the oppotunists like you and your idol, journalist Christopher Hitchens, are disgusting.
[00:13:59]  I mean research about Hitchens.
[00:14:01]  All he did was throw dirt on nice people to become famous and earn some cash.
[00:14:07]  So my advice to you is be real and get a life.
[00:14:13]  I have to say, Thupton's remarks cut pretty deep and made me realize the error of my ways.
[00:14:19]  Thank you, Thupton.
[00:14:20]  I will turn over a new leaf and follow your shining example.
[00:14:24]  No more throwing dirt on nice people to earn some cash.
[00:14:28]  From now on, Skeptoid will be all about having a life.
[00:14:32]  No more of my ridiculous claims.
[00:14:35]  Only love and harmony and beauty and the celebration of, well, whatever you want me to celebrate.
[00:14:42]  Let's all just be real.
[00:14:46]  You're listening to Skeptoid.
[00:14:48]  I'm Brian Dunning from Skeptoid.com.
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