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Aug. 19, 2025 - Sean Hannity Show
28:56
Navigating the Ukraine Conflict and Global Leadership - August 18th, Hour 2
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All right, thanks, Scott Shannon.
Hour to Sean Hannity Show.
Write down our toll-free telephone number if you want to be a part of the program.
Anyway, we are following the news developing at the White House all day long today as the president welcomes all the leaders, let's see, from the president of France, the UK Prime Minister, the German Chancellor, the Finnish President, NATO Secretary, the Prime Minister of Italy, and much, much more, and President Zelensky, in the hopes that the President can follow through on his summit with Vladimir Putin.
The president did say that he will call Putin after what takes place at the White House today.
Anyway, here with Analysis, we have Niall Gardner.
He's the director of the Heritage Foundation's Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom, and also Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China, The Great U.S.-China Tech War, former U.S. trade rep in his own right.
Niall, welcome back to the program.
I'm making the case in two ways.
I'm arguing, number one, that I really do blame this mess on both Obama and on Joe Biden.
And I give President Trump a lot of credit for trying to clean it up.
I don't think Europe is blameless in this either.
They have funded Putin's war machine by buying his energy.
None of them have ever tried to really engage with him.
They have isolated him.
They are completely impotent in trying to deal with him.
And if any country benefits the least in a possible peace deal with Ukraine and Russia, I would argue it's the USA.
And the only person that could pull this off, whether you like President Trump or not, is him.
And he's moving at the speed of Trump.
He's not wasting time.
He's trying to get this thing resolved.
And he's already had success around the globe with India, Pakistan, Israel, Iran, Rwanda, Congo, Serbia, Kosovo, Thailand, Cambodia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Ethiopia.
So, I mean, he's trying.
He said it's by far the hardest of all of them.
I think if it does come down to a deal, I think it's going to end up being land swaps of some kind with security guarantees.
Not quite Article 5, not NATO-related, but NATO-like Article 5 security guarantees for Ukraine.
I just hope there's an end to the killing myself.
Niall.
Yes.
Well, it's great to be on the show.
Thank you very much.
And, you know, my view is a strong agreement with that.
But basically, with President Trump's leadership right now, it's a huge change, actually, from what we saw with Joe Biden and with Barack Obama, both very weak-need leaders, in my view.
In contrast, Trump projects strength and leadership.
You'll see that today at the White House summit, of course, with European leaders gathered together with President Zelensky of Ukraine.
There's only one man in the world who can bring together this kind of coalition, and that's President Trump.
And President Trump, of course, determined to bring about an end to the war in Ukraine, a war that should have been averted, frankly, by Joe Biden, who actually did nothing to avert the war in the first place.
And let's not forget.
Niall, he never picked up a phone.
He never made one phone call.
While Putin was amassing troops and military equipment on the Ukrainian border.
Yeah, that's exactly the case.
And also, let's not forget that Barack Obama, when he was president, refused to actually send any defensive weapons to the Ukrainians.
And so whereas President Trump did do so during his first presidency.
And so there is a remarkable contrast, I think, between the kind of grit and determination that we're seeing from the U.S. presidency today with the absolutely useless approach taken by both Biden and Obama previously.
So America certainly is back on the world stage right now.
What is your take, Gordon Chang?
And I do have a China question involving this because I think one of the reasons Putin even went to Alaska is because Trump was able to up European or NATO countries' commitment to NATO more than double to 5% of GDP.
I do think the European trade deal, where nearly a trillion dollars in committed monies for American energy rather than Russian energy, played a role.
I do believe the 50% tariffs that the president put on India played a role.
And I do believe the president selling sophisticated weaponry to Ukraine and to NATO is also playing a big part in it.
But one has to wonder if the president is backdooring China and saying, we don't want you to buy any more Russian oil.
Yeah, I agree with all of that, Sean.
With regard to China, they want this war to continue indefinitely.
And the reason is that they believe that if the war continues, the U.S. is not going to pay as much attention to China in East Asia.
And we know this because Chinese Foreign Minister Wagi on July 2nd, when he was talking to Kayak Kalas, the EU foreign policy chief, actually said this.
He said they don't want Russia to lose the war in Ukraine because they're worried about the change in focus of the U.S.
Well, if you just extrapolate a little bit, it means that if the war in Ukraine ends, the U.S. is going to be paying attention to China in East Asia.
So I think the Chinese are fueling this.
And because of that, they believe they get a real advantage.
And they've been supporting Russia across the board, including providing soldiers to the Russians.
So this is all-in support on the part of Beijing for the war effort.
Yeah.
I know that people don't like the way I'm describing that.
I think the only way this is end is the following way.
And that's going to be, you know, in terms of land transfers and probably a fairly dramatic increase in land that is taken over by Putin.
I mean, there's a certain percentage now of Ukraine that Vladimir Putin has complete control over.
I would imagine most, if not all of it, stays with him.
And I say that with a heavy heart because I don't like to reward bad behavior, Niall.
But, you know, the Donetsk region, for example, is about half and half.
And I'm not sure what happens to that region.
Donbass is another area where I think there's some question marks and a few other coastal areas.
But if my view, in the end, if this war continues, how many more people are going to end up losing their lives?
Number one, innocent people, women and children being targeted by Putin.
And let me be clear, I think Putin's a murdering dictator thug.
I have no admiration for Vladimir Putin.
But if you do want the war to come to an end, that's the only way in reality I see it happening.
What is your thought?
And in exchange, I think the security guarantees, including Article 5-like security agreements, will be put in place with Ukraine and weaponry will be sold to Ukraine by the United States and other countries.
I think that would offer security guarantees that certainly Ukraine didn't have prior to this conflict.
Yes, I think those are excellent points.
And if Ukraine is to give up the Donbass region to Russia, as Putin demands, then Ukraine is going to need a security guarantee in return.
And I think that's basically what the White House is really proposing right now.
course uh details being discussed uh today as as we speak in fact um but uh the the reality is that the the only way i think ukrainians will will decide to uh to stop fighting will be if if there is a security guarantee in place some kind of nato style article five guaranteed but of course not under the auspices of nato so
So this would involve, for example, British and French ground forces in Ukraine to protect Ukrainian territory.
There may be some U.S. military air support, for example, but this would not be a NATO operation.
So quite a unique sort of proposal, but one that may actually succeed.
At the same time, of course, I think it's vital that the Russians make some concessions themselves.
And that should include returning the tens of thousands of Ukrainian children who have been abducted, kidnapped, basically, and basically forced to live in Russia.
And Melania Trump wrote a very powerful letter to Vladimir Putin talking about these children.
And I think that as part of any kind of peace deal, it's imperative these children, Ukrainian children, be returned back home to Ukraine where they belong.
And that should be a demand made of Vladimir Putin.
Listen, I totally completely agree with you.
I really do.
However, Zelensky has been on record saying over and over again that they're not going to give up any land.
He said it's impossible.
If that is his position, then this is going to be a fight to the finish, in my view, and there's going to be a lot more death between now and the end of this war.
Yeah, I think that's right.
And the challenge for Zelensky, of course, is to be able to continue fighting against a far bigger adversary, but also at a time when public opinion inside Ukraine is moving further and further in support of a negotiated settlement.
And so immense challenges for Zelensky.
The Ukrainians have fought incredibly bravely against a brutal and barbaric enemy.
And the question now is whether Zelensky is willing to trade territory for peace while potentially gaining a vital security guarantee.
So we'll have to see how things move in the coming days and weeks.
So far, as you point out, of course, Zelensky is refusing to even consider the idea of giving up territory.
So we'll have to see how that moves forward in the next few days.
Now, we'll see.
What is your take, Gordon?
I mean, is Zelensky really that dug in as it relates to any concessions as it relates to land?
In exchange for security guarantees, so there's not a third invasion?
Yeah, he does appear to be dug in.
There are a couple of other things, though, that we should talk about.
And one of them is if the United States does enforce its sanctions and cuts off money to the Russian war machine, then we could be having very different conversations on what a peace agreement looks like.
You know, remember, Sean, that during the Cold War, we did not recognize Soviet sovereignty over the three Baltic states.
And lo and behold, those three states, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia, are now considered sovereign.
And they're actually members of NATO because these untold events can occur, such as the collapse of the Soviet Union.
And we can see a collapse of the Russian Federation as well.
So there's a lot going on here, especially because Putin doesn't want to ceasefire.
This means that all sorts of things can occur because the fighting will continue.
And during that fighting, there's a lot of uncertainty.
So there might be terms which we do not think are possible, but could be, especially if the United States does impose those sanctions and enforces them rigorously, along with the European Union and our other partners.
At the end of the day, this is going to be a Ukraine-Zelensky and Europe decision, is it not, Niall?
Yes, I think so.
And this is a matter of Ukrainian sovereignty and self-determination.
Ultimately, any deal will have to be made by Ukraine directly with Moscow.
And President Trump is really facilitating a likely trilateral summit in the weeks ahead.
But ultimately, Zelensky will have to negotiate this deal directly with Putin.
Zelensky will have to make those decisions.
I do think it's imperative that the United States ramp up the pressure on Moscow at this time.
And President Trump has spoken about severe consequences for the Russians if they don't end the war.
I think we need to hear a lot more of that messaging being put forward by the United States in the coming days and weeks.
After all, this is a Russian war of aggression against Ukraine.
Russia's the invading force, and Russia needs to act to end the war.
And so U.S. pressure on Russia must be significantly increased further.
And if necessary, yes, severe economic sanctions have to be imposed on the Russians.
And we should bring the Russian economy to its knees.
If Vladimir Putin doesn't want to end the war, so all options have to be on the table.
Yeah, I agree.
Anyway, I appreciate both of you.
Niall Gardner, good to hear your voice again.
Gordon Chang, always good to hear your voice also.
800-941 Sean is on number if you want to be a part of the program.
The media, I will tell you in this country, if it's never been this obvious, you have one MSDNC host exploding live on air over Putin talks ranting.
Trump doesn't give a sh about democracy.
What is Trump really gaining here, except that the world will be a better, safer place?
I go back to what my friend Barry Farber said.
There's never been a country in the history of mankind that's accumulated more power and abused it less than the U.S.
And I go on to explain there's never been a country in the history of the world that's accumulated more power and used it to advance for good and to advance the human condition more than our country.
Never happened.
I think one of the funniest stories is MSDNC is to change their name amid a spin-off from NBC.
Not even MBC.
As liberal as they are, as left-wing as they are, wants to be associated with the lying and conspiracy theory peddling over at MSDNC.
Did you notice, Linda, they're trying to change the name now?
It's about that.
I know.
We will be MS Now, which stands for my source for news, opinion, and the world.
And look, Andrew, they even have a graphic up.
I like it.
There it is.
Actually, look at the logo.
It looks very sporty.
Oh, it looks very, very sporty.
Really rolls off the tongue.
Rolls off the tongue.
It's still to us, it's forever will be MSDNC.
Nothing has changed here at all, whatsoever.
Anyway, we're still watching and seeing what the fallout is going to be from the president and his attempt meeting with European and NATO leaders today.
If you look at the key takeaways from the summit, President Trump saying to me there's no deal until there's a deal.
He's right.
The president, you know, going into great specificity and details, talking about he wanted to move quickly.
He wants to get to trilateral negotiations.
He's willing to be a part of it.
It's up to Zelensky to now get a deal done.
The president also laid out the two conditions, which I went over earlier.
I won't repeat myself, that where he could get a deal right now.
Zelensky has been pretty adamant saying that Ukraine will never give up land.
If they don't, then there will be no resolution to this conflict.
There just won't be.
There'll be no resolution at all.
President keeps reiterating that he's trying to save lives using the power of the United States, which is a noble cause.
I think if you really want what this breaks down to, there's going to be land swaps and massive security measures in place for Ukraine moving forward so there's not a third invasion.
You know, President Trump in the lead up to today said Zelensky's advice to Zelensky is make the deal.
I think if they don't make a deal, I think both countries are going to suffer massive losses.
And I don't know to what extent the world is going to have an appetite to continue.
Europe has shown no appetite to get involved and actually do something of value in this entire conflict from the very beginning.
They really haven't.
They have fallen down on the job and frankly been a disappointment.
And I take it even a step further.
I think they are partially responsible for where we are today.
But that said, our friend Matt Towery over at Insider Advantage came out with a poll today.
What is your opinion of President Trump's job performance?
54%.
This is polled right after the summit that took place on Friday.
54% approval rating and a 44% disapproval approval rating.
The exact opposite of the polling companies that have never in 10 years been able to poll Donald Trump the right way.
Not one time.
They always get it wrong.
President Trump deployed 4,000 troops to the Caribbean to combat drug cartels.
That kind of went a little bit unnoticed.
I noticed that the Secretary, the Homeland Security Chief, Christy Noam, has been forced into military housing amid surging death threats.
That's not good to hear.
She'll join us on Hannity tonight.
Also, D.C. crime, we have an update on that.
68 suspects were arrested Saturday night as part of President Trump's D.C. crackdown on crime, nearly 70 people.
And that's a lot of people.
And MSDNC is dismissing fears about D.C. safety, saying, well, it ain't Mayberry.
Well, what does that mean?
I mean, if you look at every capital country in the entire world, we have 41 homicides per 100,000.
The next worst country with the highest homicide rate per 100,000 is 16.
I mean, when Baghdad and Mexico City and El Salvador, you know, and all these other countries are safer than Washington, D.C., maybe it's time that you want help.
There's actually a few people that are surprisingly saying that they're open to the help.
All right, let's get to our phones.
Texas, God bless Texas.
Robert, you're on the Sean Hannity show.
Hi.
Robert, are you there?
I guess not.
Jim in Minnesota.
Jim, you're on the Sean Hannity show.
Hi.
Glad you called.
Hi, Sean.
Thanks for taking my call.
I listen to your show often, and I'm a supporter of President Trump.
i was calling you that i'm disappointed in your position that you think giving up that ukraine giving up land at this time is the right way to go and apparently when did i ever say it was my position that i think that ukraine that i want ukraine to give up When did I say that?
You haven't said that, but you think that that's the way it's going to have to go.
I think that's the way.
If you're asking me for analysis, which is different than what I want, I don't like the fact that you reward a country that invades an innocent country and they end up with more land.
I don't like the principle of it.
However, given the choices where we are, I think that's the reality of any, if there's going to be any deal, that's where it's going to land, in my opinion.
And I understand that, but I disagree at this time.
President Trump has said that if President Putin was not going to stop the fighting in Ukraine, that he would face severe sanctions.
We have not tried that.
And I think that needs to be done first.
And he needs to say, get out of Ukraine, stop the fighting, or those sanctions are going to go in place.
We know what the severe sanctions are going to be.
It's very simple.
It's not complicated.
The sanctions are going to be exactly what President Trump has started.
And the sanctions will be like the EU trade deal.
And European countries will now buy more and more of their energy from us and not from Russia.
That then cuts off the funding of his war machine.
I think the president also puts pressure on other countries like he did with India, 50% tariff.
I think that's all in place.
I think the president will continue to sell arms to Ukraine.
But if you don't get a deal, and I think the president's being very realistic in terms of what's possible, I'm not saying I like it.
I'm just saying this is where I think it ends, if it's going to end.
But I think you have to give strong sanctions a chance first.
And that's not happening.
Well, look, Lindsey Graham is going to join us, has a bill, a very strong sanction bill.
I think 85 senators now have signed on to it.
I agree with you that there's got to be major consequences, as the president said, if Putin doesn't at least try to meet them part way.
I'm not going to get into the history of what Russia thinks and what Ukraine thinks or what they're going to do here.
At the end of the day, these countries have a choice to make.
There's the reality, and then there's, you know, the hand you dealt versus the hand you wish you had.
And if you're dealing with the hand that you have, for us to achieve what you want would probably take a good 18 months to two years for the sanctions to fully impact the Russian economy the way we want.
I don't think it's going to happen immediately because you've got to get other countries to get on board.
That's true.
But if you think the killing is going to stop, you can't trust Putin and it's going to happen again.
Well, it could, but that's why on the other side of the equation, that's why Ukraine and Zelensky will get the security guarantees, including the equivalent of Article 5 security measures.
That means that if you invade Ukraine, then all these other countries are pledging to get involved in the war against Russia, which nobody wants.
I mean, we don't want a full-on war in Europe, a full-out war in Europe, do we?
They also pledged to help him out when he gave up his nuclear weapons, and we didn't do that.
Well, let me ask you this question.
How many people are going to die while your sanctions program is being implemented?
Because Trump's only been in office seven months.
You can blame Biden for all of this, but how many people are you willing to let die in the process?
I'm just curious.
I guess I'm looking to the future and saying that more people are going to die in the future.
Putin has said what he wants to do.
He wants to reestablish the Soviet Union.
And he says it, and we just don't listen to him and don't believe him.
He said it in the past.
I pay attention to it, but he's not made the effort or the movement.
And I also think we learned one other thing.
The Russian army is not as tough as they thought they were.
Ukrainians have fought valiantly in this conflict.
Anyway, we'll see.
At the end of the day, I'd like to see the killing end.
I don't like any solution, to be honest.
I wish that Russia would just turn around and go back home, but that's not a possibility.
So I deal in reality, not in the world that I wish we had.
I wish evil didn't exist in the world.
Rich in New Jersey.
Hey, Rich, how are you?
Glad you called.
How are you?
The reason I called, I can understand why Zelensky doesn't want to give up land for peace.
And everyone seems to think that's what has to happen.
But I think we should think outside the box a little bit.
Has anyone considered if you would be able to lease land to Russia, much the way that China did that long-term lease for Hong Kong?
And then when the lease is up, the land would be turned over to the Ukraine.
It's just something that Russia would occupy for a while.
And then that way they would have their warm water fort and they would have protection for their Russian brethren that are sort of living in the eastern portion of Ukraine.
My understanding is the only land that would outright go to Russia would be Crimea, and that everything else would be considered along the lines of, I think, what you're describing, quote, a land swap.
But in the end, let's be real, we're just playing semantics.
I think that Russia is gaining territory and Ukraine is losing territory.
Are they willing to give it up in the name of real security this time so there's not a third invasion?
That's the question.
I actually think language is a little bit different.
They're calling it a land swap, but I don't think it's any really, I don't think it's different than what you're describing.
I'm thinking that it would be Ukraine's land, but it would be a long-term lease.
And when the lease is up, that land goes back to the Ukraine.
But what that does is it either exposes Putin as a liar because the things he initially said were the reason for him going into Ukraine would be resolved if that lease took place.
And Zelensky would be able to say, we've retained our pre-war borders.
And, you know, while the Russians are going to be there for a while, it's a transitional thing.
They're using it for a while.
But when the lease is up.
But you and I both know that that's all semantics and it's not reality, right?
Wink, wink, nod, nod.
We know that once Russia has it, they're not giving it back to Ukraine.
Well, Sean, just something to consider.
Thanks for taking my time.
Listen, I think that's what the words land swap mean.
I don't think you're off base here.
I think that's what they're talking about.
Anyway, Carl and Maryland, Carl, you're on the Sean Hannity show.
Hi, Sean.
Thanks for taking my call.
I have such great respect for you.
I love your show.
I was telling the call screener that I'm a big follower of the great one.
And then last night, he was talking about the fact that as your previous callers were mentioning the power that Trump has over Putin for financial reasons with the sanctions, do you believe that there are sanctions that would be strong enough to pull the rug completely out from under them instead of long-term or short-term?
I think the only reason Putin came to the table is because the president forced NATO to more than double their commitment to defense.
I think it's because of the EU trade deal, where, I mean, it's a sanction in the sense that Western Europe won't buy their energy from Putin anymore, but they'll buy it from us.
I think the tariffs on India, that's a sanction.
I think selling weapons to Ukraine in a way you can describe it if you want, depending on the semantics you want to use, that would be a sanction.
I'm in favor of harder sanctions, especially if they can't come to a deal.
You know, do I think it's going to, I think the president is committed to resolving this quickly.
And if you want to do it quickly, the only way it's going to end is with land swaps versus real security guarantees for Ukraine.
Now, if you want to play longball and you're willing to accept all the dead people in the interim, then we could talk about the sanctions strategy, which, you know, I'd like to see the strongest sanctions possible, especially if Putin doesn't come to the table.
Anyway, good call.
We have a lot of smart callers today.
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