The Path to Peace in Ukraine - August 18th, Hour 1
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Thank you, Scott Shannon.
Thanks to all of you for being with us.
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European leaders, President Zelensky, all meeting with President Trump at the White House.
And that would include the NATO Secretary, European Commission President, the French President Macron, British Prime Minister Starmer, and the German Chancellor Murs and the Prime Minister of Italy and the Finnish president, you know, all there at the White House.
Now, what's amazing about this, if you follow the state-run legacy media mob, you would have thought Friday was an unmitigated disaster.
None of this would be happening if Friday was an unmitigated disaster.
And, you know, the president said something that it just really stuck with me.
And he posted it on Truth Social.
He said, I'm convinced that if Russia raised their hands and said, we give up, we concede, we surrender, we'll give Ukraine and the great United States of America, Moscow, St. Petersburg, and everything surrounding them for a thousand miles.
The fake news media, their Democratic partners would say that this was a bad and humiliating day for Donald J. Trump and one of the worst days in history.
It is a sad thing that it's if you can have success.
And if you really, you got to start with this.
Donald Trump is cleaning up Joe Biden and Europe's mess.
Let's just be blunt about this.
I mean, here you have Putin amassing troops on the border of Ukraine, amassing military equipment on the border of Ukraine.
And the president of the United States at the time, Joe Biden, doesn't even pick up a phone and say, what the hell are you doing?
You know, we, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.
You've already annexed Crimea, but that happened during Obama and Biden's watch anyway.
And so the fact that nobody ever held them accountable for any of this, and then Putin turned, I'm sorry, Biden turns this into a proxy war by providing hundreds of billions of dollars in military equipment to the Ukrainians, even more than Europe.
And it then becomes a proxy war between Russia and the United States, which it never should have evolved into.
They should have had meetings prior to an invasion.
Don't, don't, the stupidity of Joe Biden.
Minor, it depends if it's a minor incursion.
And, you know, I'm looking at these European leaders, and I'm not really impressed with many of them because they didn't do much about this either in the lead up to this moment.
And you really can't blame Europe enough.
If you go back to Donald Trump's first term and he tells the story of Angela Merkel and the white flag of surrender that he handed her, and she goes, what's this?
He goes, well, that's the white flag of surrender.
Well, why are you giving me this?
Because you just surrendered.
She had done a multi-multi-billion dollar energy deal with Vladimir Putin and Russia.
And if you look at all the energy that has been purchased by, you know, by Western Europe as it relates to Russia, they have funded Putin's war machine.
And they never engaged with him.
All they've ever done is isolate him.
They never wanted to pay their fair share to NATO.
And, you know, the idea of ignoring him did nothing to advance a better relationship with him.
It's not like they called and said, hey, can we meet?
And they didn't want to meet.
You know, so Donald Trump is playing the key role here.
It really does piss me off that before the Alaska summit, all these European leaders wanted to tell Donald Trump how to negotiate with Vladimir Putin when none of them ever tried and none of them are capable of pulling it off.
Now, the president did rightly mention the other peace deals that he's been engaged in.
India, Pakistan, he played a role.
Israel-Iran, he played a role.
Rwanda, the Congo, he played a role.
Serbia, Kosovo, he played a role.
Thailand, Cambodia, he played a role.
Egypt, Ethiopia, he played a role.
Armenia, Azerbaijan, he played a role.
And, you know, I would argue that the only reason that Putin even went to Alaska is because Donald Trump insisted that NATO up their contributions from 2% to 5% and that they really have to start paying it in terms of their percentage of GDP.
He did the European Union trade deal that included nearly a trillion dollars in committed oil energy purchases, gas purchases from the United States.
That's money that is taken directly out of Putin's war machine.
He put the 50% tariffs on India because they were importing Russian energy.
And he agreed to sell the most sophisticated weaponry on the planet Earth to the Ukrainians and to NATO so that the fighting can continue because Vladimir Putin was being so stubborn.
And then finally, I would argue those are the four main reasons that Alaska even happened.
But you really do have to pause for a moment here and understand something that is deep and profound and historic between Friday and Alaska and how quickly the president was able to get these European leaders to show up at the White House is nothing short of miraculous.
And it shows, you know, the great Barry Farber, one of the great pioneers of talk radio, he said there's never been a country in the history of mankind that has accumulated more power and abused it less than the United States of America.
And he added to that, and I add to that, there's never been a country in the history of mankind that has accumulated more power and used it to advance, you know, the good of mankind more than the United States.
If you really think deeply about it, you don't have to even go that deep.
If you think an inch deep about it, the country that gains the least out of all of this, and that goes for all the other peace deals that I mentioned, is our country.
It's not like we're doing this for some benefit to the United States or that we're going to have some type of financial windfall, or that we're going to have some type of territorial gain out of any of this.
No, we're not doing it.
The president keeps emphasizing again and again that he wants the killing to stop.
And if you really stop and think about it, nobody else that is in this room that I'm watching right now, and right now the Prime Minister of Great Britain is speaking, but we'll get to that in a second.
You know, the only person on the world stage right now that could even think about pulling this off, whether he is in the end successful or not, he's trying.
And the president even mentioned, he thought this one would be easier.
He said, of all the peace deals I've been involved in, I thought this would be one of the easier ones.
He said it turned out to be the harder one.
But he's in the game.
He's engaged.
He's moving at the speed of Trump.
He got all these European leaders to get on a plane over the weekend and fly here.
And Zelensky's here.
And the hope is that they'll have trilateral meetings as a result of all of this.
Putin agreeing to trilateral meetings.
Also, Putin agreed to NATO-style protections resembling NATO's Article V agreement, which I'll give you some specificity of in a second.
The bottom line is because NATO's not on the table.
That's always been Putin's position.
That was one of the big mistakes that Joe Biden opened the door to that possibility.
And, you know, even President Trump put out a truth last night that said that Ukrainian President Zelensky could bring the nation's war with Russia to a halt almost immediately if he's willing to make two major concessions, and they are major.
And I'm not saying that I like any part of this deal, but I'm giving you the reality of what this deal is going to look like in the end.
There are going to be land swaps.
There's probably going to be an increase in the territory that Russia in the end has.
If you're looking at the Donetsk or the Donbass region and the high population of Russian nationals that are there.
And in exchange, the president is assuring President Zelensky that, in fact, if he wants to, he will get all the security guarantees that he needs and wants for his country, but he's got to give up any hope that Crimea is coming back.
Now, Crimea happened in what, 2014?
That's 11, 12 years ago.
And that happened under Obama and Biden's watch.
That's not going to be an issue that's going to be on the table for negotiation if you want the war to end, if you want the killing to stop.
So those are two very big things.
If you're going to have any lasting peace is that on the other end of this, President Zelensky is going to need major security guarantees.
And by the way, Europe needs to play a big part in all of that, but also the relationship with Ukraine and our country is going to be a big part of that.
And if you accept that Ukraine is not going to be a part of NATO, but Putin conceding that he'll give security guarantees so that you don't have a third invasion, I would argue that that is a win.
If you're looking at NATO and Article 5 and what it means and how it applies to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it's the principle that if one NATO member is attacked, it's considered an attack on all members.
And it's pretty much been the cornerstone of this 30-member alliance since it founded in 1949 as a counterweight to the Soviet Union.
The problem is all these European countries have not only become complacent, they haven't wanted to pay their fair share in terms of military protection.
Donald Trump is fixing their problem.
That's why he upped their commitment to NATO.
That's why he's selling the weapons to Ukraine and actually selling it vis-a-vis through NATO so that they can Determine what weapons are needed for Ukraine to even stay in the fight, stay in the game.
Do I like any of it?
I don't.
Do I think anyone's going to be completely happy with the deal?
I don't.
You know, Secretary of State Mark Orrubio.
Now, the president did point out in the other seven conflicts that he played a role in that he did not get to the point of a ceasefire, that they can go straight to an end to the war, and he thinks it can happen quickly.
The president literally is talking about if they can get an agreement on a trilateral meeting, and we just have President Zelensky say that he wants Donald Trump to be there, which is what Donald Trump reiterated to me after the summit that took place in Alaska on Friday, I think that would be a big win for the world.
So, you know, a lot of this that's happening right now before our eyes is historic, but I think it's a couple of huge big concessions from Putin that, of course, the legacy media mob and people like Chris Murphy will never recognize.
And I think the president using the example that if, you know, all of a sudden Putin turns around and says, yeah, we'll give you St. Petersburg, we'll give you Moscow if he has a peace agreement.
Yeah, let's do that.
Anyway, so the president also saying that he will call Putin today after meeting with European leaders.
I think all of this is historic, and I can't give you what the final outcome is going to be.
I can only hope for the sake of innocent men, women, and children that are dying that the dying and the death stops.
You know, it was funny.
Some Russian reporter shoved the camera in my face when I was in Alaska and said, what would you say to President Putin?
I said, stop the killing.
How many more dead Russian soldiers do you want?
How many more dead women and children do you want?
What are you looking for here?
What's the end game in all of this?
And so we'll see what happens.
But the media is just as corrupt as ever.
For Chris Murphy to go on Meet the Press, by the way, the best moments of Meet the Press and the best moments on CBS this weekend were Mark Orubio.
I mean, he just gave, he's giving, I don't even know why they invite him back because every time these hosts have him on, he just humiliates them and embarrasses them and just makes them look dumber than we even thought they were.
I think it's worth playing as I watch these European leaders with President Trump and President Zelensky all giving their take.
It was all a public spray.
I'll play it from the beginning at the bottom of the half hour.
We do have other full coverage of everything that went on today, and we'll have more coverage of it tonight on Hannity 9 Eastern on the Fox News channel.
But there's a lot.
I mean, you know, they're at a point now where, you know, they met in the East Room.
All these people, the fact that they all came to the United States and they all did it on two days' notice is what other person could possibly pull this off?
Anyway, it's pretty remarkable.
It really is.
And we'll see what happens.
The bottom line is what I said on Friday.
The way that this is going to end, if it's going to end peacefully, is going to be land swaps.
Yeah, there will be territory that was Ukrainian.
That'll be in Putin's hands.
Do I like that part of it?
don't am i being a little bit i'm just trying to give you the reality I'm not giving you what I wish.
You know, I can give you what I want.
What I want is, you know, I'd love Crimea to go back into the hands of Ukraine.
It's just not going to happen.
It's not in the cards.
And sometimes you've got to deal with the cards you're dealt, not the ones you wish were dealt.
But if you really want an end to the killing, which is 5,000, 7,000 people a week, and that's Russian soldiers and that's innocent civilians in Ukraine, then there's got to be a land swap and there's going to be security guarantees so that there won't be a third Russian invasion of Ukraine.
But remember, it all happened on Obama and Biden's watch, all of it.
All right, so pretty interesting what happened today.
And I think it's worth playing.
And then we'll come back.
We'll get other reaction.
We'll get to your calls and your reaction, all the events today.
Amazing that the media and people on the left and Democrats, oh, this is a disaster.
It was not a disaster in Alaska, just the opposite.
But they're corrupt, and it doesn't shock me.
I mean, for Chris Murphy to say, oh, it's an embarrassment.
Well, if it was that embarrassing, why are all these European leaders, why did they talk to President Trump, get on a plane and fly in from Europe?
Why did President Zelensky fly in from Ukraine to meet with President Trump today at the White House?
Because he's pretty much the only guy that's capable of pulling this off.
If he can pull it off, it will be amazing.
But it's almost like the left in this country will not be happy unless Donald Trump fails, which is what he said on Truth Social.
He's convinced if Russia raised their hands and said, we give up, we concede, we surrender.
We'll give Ukraine and the great USA, Moscow, and St. Petersburg and everything surrounding them for a thousand miles.
And he points out the fake news media, Democratic partners would say it's a bad, humiliating day for Donald J. Trump, one of the worst days for our country.
You know, MSDNC, by the way, things are so bad at MSDNC that NBC doesn't even want to be associated with any more of their lying and conspiracy peddling.
And now they came up with a new name.
I mean, you can't even make that up.
If you watched Marco Rubio this weekend with Margaret Brennan, it was, frankly, a master class in how conservatives should deal with the liberal legacy media mob if you're going to take the time to even go on these shows.
I mean, Rubio's performance was just stellar.
You know, can you name any concessions that Vladimir Putin made during the meeting?
Now, Trump had already made that news when I interviewed him on Friday that there's a chance of trilateral meetings between President Trump, Zelensky, and Putin.
He already pointed out a lot of things, a lot of areas, including security guarantees.
And that all came out.
And then Rubio's like, he's not going to negotiate on CBS with Margaret Brennan, who doesn't have very few viewers.
And he accused the reporter of pushing the stupid media narrative.
And he's not wrong.
You know, there is a concern from the Europeans that President Zelensky is going to be bullied into signing something away.
That's why you have these European leaders coming as a backup tomorrow.
They're not coming as backup.
You know, I blame these European leaders for enriching Putin's war machine by buying his energy and not showing any strength except for Donald Trump forcing them to do it by paying their fair share for NATO and doubling, more than doubling what they paid towards Europe.
And Rubio shooting it on a report that Putin, that Trump is backing Putin's plan to control any reason.
None of this is agreed to.
The only hope is you have trilateral meetings with agreements of security concerns and the land swaps.
It's going to get difficult.
It's not going to be easy.
Anyway, 800-941 Sean.
So the President sitting down with the leaders of Europe.
Yeah, the NATO Secretary General was there.
The European Commission President was there.
French President Macrom was there.
The British Prime Minister Starmer was there.
The German Chancellor was there.
The Prime Minister of Italy Maloney was there.
And the Finnish President was there.
And let me play, this just happened in the last 30 minutes or so.
Let me play it for you.
Thank you very much.
It's a great honor to have you here.
Special place.
White House is special no matter where you're from.
Represents so much, and it really is beautiful.
And thank you for all of the wonderful things that took place today.
We've had a very successful day thus far.
Important discussions as we work to end the killing and stop the war in Ukraine.
We're all working for the same goal.
Very simple goal.
We want to stop the killing, get this settled.
I've just had the honor of being with President Zelensky and all of the discussions that we've had.
We covered a lot of territory.
And I spoke indirectly with President Putin today.
We're going to call President Putin right after this meeting.
I'm sure we're going to have a solid meeting, good meeting, maybe a great meeting.
And we're going to try and work out a tri-lat after that and see if we can get it finished.
Put this to sleep, because this is not since the Second World War has there been anything like this.
So I'm honored to welcome NATO Secretary General Mark Ruta, who's a great gentleman, great, great political leader in Europe generally.
But now he's the NATO Secretary General, and you're doing a fantastic job.
Thank you very much, Mark.
Prime Minister Starmer of the United Kingdom, our friend and my friend, and doing really well.
And people like him a lot.
We all like him.
Everyone knows President Macron of France, who's been with me from the beginning, one of the first people I met as a foreign dignitary, and I liked him from day one.
And I like him even more now.
That's pretty good.
That's unusual.
That's a pretty unusual thing.
Prime Minister Maloney of Italy, who's really a great leader and an inspiration over there.
She's served now, even though she's a very young person.
She's served there for a long period of time relative to others.
They don't last very long.
You've lasted a long time.
You're going to be there a long time.
Chancellor Mertz of Germany, who is a very strong person and a very strong leader and very highly respected in Germany.
And he's my friend, and it's an honor to have him as my friend.
Thank you very much.
Very good.
You look great with your tan.
Where'd you get that tan?
I want to get a tan like that.
That's true.
President Stube of Finland, and he's somebody that, where are we here?
I'm right here.
Oh, you look better than I've ever seen you look.
But you've done a great job, and we wanted to have you here because you're somebody that we all respect.
And you've had a lot to do with the success, I think, and the potential success.
And thank you very much for being here.
We appreciate it.
And the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, who is somebody that we just made a big deal with, with all of those countries.
I don't know.
I think you might be more powerful than all these guys at this table.
I don't know.
But we had a great negotiation, and you're respected all over the world.
So I want to thank you very much for being here.
It's a great honor to have you.
The Alaska Summit reinforced my belief that while difficult, peace is within reach and I believe that in a very significant step, President Putin agreed that Russia would accept security guarantees for Ukraine, and this is one of the key points that we need to consider, and we're going to be considering that at the table also, like who will do what, essentially.
I'm optimistic that collectively we can reach an agreement that would deter any future aggression against Ukraine.
And I actually think there won't be.
I think that's even overrated, largely overrated, but we're going to find out.
And I think that the European nations are going to take a lot of the burden.
We're going to help them and we're going to make it very secure.
We also need to discuss the possible exchanges of territory, taking into consideration the current line of contact.
That means the war zone, the war lines that are pretty obvious, very sad actually to look at them.
And negotiating positions, President Putin also, you have President of Ukraine, who is you just met a little while ago, and we're going to try and get a three-party meeting, maybe as soon as we can.
And I have a feeling you and President Putin are going to work something out.
Ultimately, this is a decision that can only be made by President Zelensky and by the people of Ukraine working also together in agreement with President Putin.
And I just think that very good things are going to come of it.
So I hope we have a good meeting.
And if we can have a good meeting, I'll set up a meeting with President Putin.
And if you'd like, I'll go to that meeting.
And not that I want to do that, but I will do that because we want to save a lot of people from dying.
A lot of people are dying, and we've got to save them.
We've got to save it.
5,000, 6,000, 7,000 people sometimes a week.
All of us would obviously prefer an immediate ceasefire while we work on a lasting peace, and maybe something like that could happen.
As of this moment, it's not happening.
But President Zelensky and President Putin can talk a little bit more about that.
You know, in the six or so wars that we stopped, we haven't had a ceasefire, and so I don't know that it's necessary.
You can do it through the war, but it would be like the ceasefire from another standpoint.
You immediately stop the killing.
But I believe a peace agreement at the end of all of this is something that's very attainable and it can be done in the near future.
With all of the wars that I got involved in, we only have this one left.
Of course, as I walk out the door, there will probably be a new one starting, and I'll get that stopped too.
But I thought this was going to be one of the easier ones.
It's actually one of the most difficult, very complex.
The next step would be for a trilateral meeting, and that will be worked out.
I just look forward to working and having a great result.
We're going to spend a lot of time today talking about, and we're really honored you guys came over.
I mean, these are the heads of major countries and respected all over Europe.
And they speak for largely, I think I should say, but pretty much for the other countries of Europe.
And we will come to a resolution today, I think, on almost everything, including probably the security.
And that's pretty much the story.
I'd like to say, Mr. President, would you like to say something?
You have the media.
If you want, you could come over and you could stand.
You could use mine or you could just turn around, whichever you feel comfortable with.
Thank you so much.
I can speak without the microphone.
Thank you so much.
I think that we had a very good conversation with President Trump.
Very good.
And it really was the best one.
Or sorry, maybe the best one will be in the future.
But it was really good.
And we spoke about very sensitive points.
The first one is security guarantees.
And we are very happy with the President that all the leaders are here.
And security in Ukraine depends on the United States and on you and on those leaders who are with us in our hearts.
They have been online before yesterday and etc.
So a lot of countries on the side of Ukraine, our people and all of us want to finish this war, stop Russia and stop this war.
We spoke about it and we will speak more about security guarantees.
This is very important that the United States gives such strong signal and is ready for security guarantees.
The second point, or maybe the first, humanitarian direction, very important to exchange all the prisoners.
And I think that the President will help.
And I was very thankful to your wife again, Mr. President, for the letter about our abducted children.
And I hope that really it can be historical for the people to bring kids back to the families and be happy and back here.
Yes, this is so, so important.
And I'm happy that we discussed it, this track with President Trump.
And I hope that we will find decisions.
And then what is very important that all the sensitive things, territorial, et cetera, we will discuss on the level of leaders during trilateral meeting.
And President Trump will try to organize such meeting.
And he said that he will come or not come.
Ukraine will be happy if you will participate.
Thank you.
And I think this is very important.
Yes, so security guarantees, bringing kids back and all our people, not only warriors, first of all, warriors and all the civilians, journalists, a lot of people in prison.
So we need them back.
And guarantees, which will work for the years.
We spoke about it.
And I showed the President a lot of details on the battlefield on the map.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for the map, by the way.
All right, for stations along the Sean Hannity Show Radio Network, we will continue our coverage this going back about the last half hour, President Trump meeting with European leaders and NATO leaders over how to proceed in terms of a peace deal with Russia and Ukraine.
We'll continue our coverage along the Sean Hannity Show Radio Network for stations.
If they need to break away, we totally understand, but our coverage continues.
I think that we had a constructive, specific meeting, and I'm very thankful to all the leaders who are here, and you help a lot.
And so we are happy that we have such big unity today.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you very much for hosting us.
Mr. President, I think you'll see that President Putin really would like to do something else.
I think when we set that up, when we do, I think it's going to be when, not if.
I think you're going to see some very positive moves.
I know there's over a thousand prisoners and I know they're going to release them.
Maybe they're going to release them very soon, like immediately, which I think is great.
But we're going to set that up today after this meeting.
So very good and great remarks.
I appreciate it.
Mark, as head of NATO, maybe you could say a few words, please.
Yes, I will be very brief.
I really want to thank you, President of the United States, the Adonaud, for the fact that you, as I said before, broke the deadlock basically with President Putin by starting that dialogue.
I think it was in February that you had the first phone call.
And from there, we are now where we are today.
And that is, I think, if we play this well, we could end this.
And we have to end it.
We have to stop the killing, we have to stop the destruction of Ukraine's infrastructure.
It is a terrible war.
So I'm really excited.
And let's make the best out of today and make sure that from today onwards we get this thing to an end as soon as possible.
I really want to thank you for your leadership, what you are doing for Lord Mir, but of course also all the European colleagues.
It is really crucial.
And the fact that you have said I'm willing to participate in the security guarantees is a big step.
It's really a breakthrough, and it makes all the difference.
So also thank you for that.
Well, NATO also has agreed from 2% to 5%, which is something that is a massive amount of money.
And it's 2% that wasn't always paid to 5% that is paid.
That's a big difference.
And so we appreciate that.
That's a great move.
Thank you very much.
Ursula, maybe on behalf of the Commission, you could say a couple of words.
Thank you very much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
And it's a very important moment.
Indeed, we are here, Europeans, as friends and allies.
We had a fantastic NATO summit.
Together, as the two largest and biggest economies in the world, we had the largest trade deal ever agreed.
And now we are here to work together with you on a just and lasting peace for Ukraine.
Stop the killing.
This is really our common interest.
Stop the killing.
And indeed, it's very good to hear that we're working on the security guarantees.
Article 5 lies security guarantees.
So important.
But I want to thank you also that you mentioned the thousands of Ukrainian children that have been abducted.
And as a mother and grandmother, every single child has to go back to its family.
This should be one of our main priorities also in these negotiations to make sure that the children come back to Ukraine to their families.
Thank you.
And we did.
I was just thinking we're here for a different reason, but we just a couple of weeks ago made the largest trade deal in history.
So that's a big thing.
And congratulations.
That's great.
Thank you very much, Ursula.
Mr. Chancellor from Germany, a very great leader.
Mr. President, Donald, many thanks for having us today.
I think this is extremely helpful that we are meeting and hearing that the two of you are having such a good meeting today here in Washington.
The next steps ahead are the more complicated ones now.
The path is open.
You opened it last Friday.
But now the way is open for complicated negotiations.
And to be honest, we all would like to see a ceasefire.
The latest from the next meeting on.
I can't imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire.
So let's work on that and let's try to put pressure on Russia because the credibility of these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations from next step on.
So I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire from the next meeting, which should be a trilateral meeting wherever it takes place.
Well, we're going to let the President go over and talk to the President and we'll see how that works out and if we can do that.
I will say, and again I say it in the six wars that I've settled, I haven't had a ceasefire.
We just got into negotiations and one of the wars was, as you know, in the Congo, was 30 years, 31 years long.
Another one that we settled last week with two great countries was 35 years going on and we had no ceasefires.
So if we can do the ceasefire, great.
And if we don't do a ceasefire, because many other points were given to us, many, many points were given to us, great points.
Please, Georgia, go ahead.
Well, thank you very much, Donald, Mr. President, for hosting us today in this important meeting.
And I think it is an important day, a new phase.
After three years and a half that we didn't see any kind of sign from the Russian side that there was a willing for dialogue.
So something is changing.
Something has changed.
Thanks to you.
Thanks also to the Stalin.
All right, that's the President at the Oval Office just within the last hour meeting with NATO representatives, European representatives, and President Zelensky.
What does it all mean?
We'll come back on the other side.
We'll have analysis.
We'll get your reaction to all of this as well.
800-941-Sean, if you want to be a part of the program as we continue our coverage, certainly historic, no doubt about it.