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Aug. 31, 2022 - Sean Hannity Show
31:23
Remembering Gorbachev - August 31st, Hour 2
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This is an iHeart Podcast.
1-800-941 Sean.
That's 1-800-941-7326.
Your boy Joe Pagson for Sean Hannity today on radio.
He's going to be back tonight on television.
Make sure you make plans to go and check uh check Sean out tonight.
I always appreciate his support.
It's an honor to key this microphone.
Thank you to him and to Linda and Jason and Katie, everybody involved, uh trusting me with the program.
Again, catch Sean tonight at his usual time on Fox News channel 1-800-941-Shawn-1800-941-7326.
This hour it's going to be Paul Manafort at the bottom.
I interviewed Paul Manafort a couple of weeks ago, the former campaign manager for Donald Trump, and also, you know, a former lobbyist over in Ukraine.
And we barely had uh time to even touch the surface of Ukraine because he's got such an interesting backstory about being the target of the DOJ in the far left in this country.
I mean, think about it.
What they went after him for was what we know Hunter Biden was doing in Ukraine, China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and probably other places we don't know about.
And Hunter Biden's riding around on Air Force One going on vacation with dad.
So Manafort's got an incredible story, and uh and he's got a book out that we're gonna talk a lot about as well.
But we get in depth about Ukraine.
Because between you and me, and don't tell anybody, I know I'm supposed to be like literally in love with Zelensky.
I'm not.
And I want to know why billions and billions of dollars.
Every day there's another announcement about billions of dollars going to Ukraine.
And and is it really a tug of war that Russia wants Ukraine to be more like them?
Western Europe wants Ukraine to be more like them.
Is it about minerals?
Is it about because historically Ukraine wasn't Russian?
I guess it was.
Uh Kiev used to be the capital right, you're right.
But historically, back centuries before that, everybody wanted a piece of Ukraine.
So ask Manafort directly why.
Why do we care?
Why do we give a you know what about Ukraine so much, and why is it that we're sending five times what we could have spent to finish the wall on the southern border over to a guy that we have no idea what he's doing with the money?
Why is that?
And also, interestingly, we go here.
Why is it that Russia couldn't do a blitzkrieg and just overrun Ukraine?
Now, I know that it sounds a little bit geeky, history-wise, I get it.
But at the same time, don't you want to know why your grandchildren and great grandchildren will be paying back a debt that we're accruing to help out Ukraine when we don't even know if it's helping?
So we're gonna have that conversation with Paul Manafort coming up.
Uh Linda, you're not as old as I am.
You're you're young and spry.
Do you remember the Reagan Gorbachev talks in Iceland?
I mean, I don't remember them, but I've seen the videos of them, sure.
Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna read you a story, just a bit of it, and yes, I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna use CNN.
Because this tells you how non-journalistic the people at CNN are.
The headline from CNN with Mikhail Gorbachev dying yesterday is Mikhail Gorbachev, former Soviet president, who took down the Iron Curtain, dies.
Now, I might be on crack, and I haven't had a drug test in a while.
But Mikhail Gorbachev didn't take down the Iron Curtain.
We crumbled the iron curtain and the Berlin Wall because of the strength and the nationalism, the belief in America that we got from one Ronald Reagan.
Suzanne Culinane and Laura Smith Spark, because it took two people to write this thing over at CNN right this.
Mikhail Gorbachev, the last leader of the former Soviet Union from 1985 until 1991, has died at the age of 91.
Gorbachev died after a long illness.
Russian state news agencies reported.
Mikhail Sergey Cergevich, I'm not sure, Gorbachev died this evening after a severe and prolonged illness.
Like the Central Clinical Hospital said, according to R.I.A. Novosti, Tuesday.
Some would say yesterday.
The man credited with introducing key political and economic reforms to the USSR and helping to end the Cold War had been in failing health for some time.
I don't need the crack test.
Maybe we should drug test these so-called journalists.
Mikhail Gorbachev didn't want to end the the Iron Curtain.
He wanted to be the next Khrushchev.
He wanted to be the next Brezhnev.
He will he was the predecessor to Putin.
He didn't want to take down the Iron Curtain.
He had to because of our strength.
Because Ronald Reagan said, you know what's interesting?
And Linda, you've seen the videos.
You probably have seen Them walk in and walk out Reykjavik in Iceland where they're laughing, and Reagan's like patting him on the back.
You know what that reminded me of?
What?
When Trump went to North Korea.
Because you had little Rocket Man who was a foot shorter than Trump, looking at him like it was Daddy and he wanted Daddy's approval, and Trump was basically patting him on the head.
This is what strength of Le Do you see the comparison?
Does that make sense or am I out of my mind here?
No, I mean, listen, when you look at what is happening right now, it is undeniable that people are laughing at Joe Biden.
You know, when when you look at how he were he's he is looking for guidance at every turn.
I mean, even if it's the Easter bunny.
And then I wish I was kidding, but I'm not, you know, and what Reagan was able to do with Gorbachev, what Trump was able to do with all of the world leaders.
I mean, I think one of the most memorable parts of Trump in the G7 and standing there, you know, among all of these, you know, super super liberal leaders from all over the world, he is so pronounced, he makes his way to the front of the crowd.
He's not waiting for anybody.
He's like push them out of the way, jokingly.
Jokingly, right.
And it's just it it really is such a stark contrast to what we have now with Joe Biden, who at the end of the day, we I mean, I don't think that a lot of people actually do.
I think you make a really good point.
We have a lot of farmers and ranchers that listen to the show, and one of the things that we've been talking about for the past two years is the increase in costs on fertilizer.
Yes.
And I don't think a lot of people understand that pot ash is a huge part of what we get in our fertilizer, that the majority of our fertilizer comes from China, and that Russia is very interested in the pot ash, which is located in Ukraine, and that Belarus is providing the path to get it out of Ukraine.
So some people can say it's money laundering, some people can say that it's the Biden's doing their money washing.
That's fine.
But I think there's another part of it that has a lot more to do with international trade and costs of uh agriculture, natural naturalization of the fertilizer coming from China, and who's getting who's getting what out of who, right?
So Ukraine's like the middleman inside of Russia and Belarus, and nobody's talking about it.
And the casualties that we're seeing on the ground, that's a very real thing.
So to say that you don't like Zelensky and you don't like Putin, you know, they're not mutually exclusive.
You can do that and still care for the people and the children that are suffering, because they certainly don't care.
It's a it's such a good point.
It's a great point, in fact.
Um, again, I'm older, so I remember this very, very specifically.
I was 10 when uh when Jimmy Carter won his his election in 76.
I I lived through four years of Carter, probably is why I do what I do for a living now, because I had to have a voice and ask why this is happening, what I thought was the greatest land on earth.
Ronald Reagan won, not because he was an actor, not because he was tall and good looking, although those didn't hurt.
Um he won because he said, Yeah, I I love America, I'm not afraid to say it.
And he actually said, I want to make America great.
By the way, Bill Clinton said, Make America great again.
I guess it wasn't racist then, but Ronald Reagan said, I want to make America great.
I and he would say things like, the last thing you want to hear when you're in trouble is I'm from the government, I'm here to help.
Well, when you when you're that guy, and you believe in limited government, low regulations, lower taxes, he slashed taxes, brought jobs back, and you could you can actually make people proud of the country again.
That's what Trump did.
Now, Trump isn't Reagan, they're very, very different people.
Reagan was a much better diplomatic politician in that he knew how to smile, shake a hand, tell a joke, while he also said, Right, but we've got Star Wars, and we'll knock your missile out of the air.
You still want to mess around?
So, I mean, he was that guy, whereas Trump would say, I'll kill Rocket Man.
You know, it's uh I'll but don't don't even try it.
So they're very different styles, but without a doubt, the one thing that you take away is the sense of nationalism and the stance of prominence and standing when it comes to what America's role is supposed to be, first here at home and then globally, that we really are the beacon.
Um interestingly, Gorbachev did not want the Iron Curtain to go away.
He might have not wanted the Cold War.
I don't think anybody really wanted, you know, the fact that we could blow each other off the map anytime we wanted.
I think that that I think anybody who's got a brain who wants who enjoyed life didn't want that.
But he wasn't somebody who wanted to break up the Soviet Union.
That got broken up because we starved them economically and we militarily scared them, and they were afraid of Reagan.
And then of course, George Herbert Walker Bush was in office when the Berlin Wall came down, but that happened because Reagan said tear down this wall.
He was unafraid.
You would never have Joe Biden say that Joe Biden in a speech in the last two years said China isn't bad, China's our friend, China's good.
Hey, they're good people, man.
So I mean, it's such a stark contrast.
But when you see somebody in what is supposed to be the journalistic media reporting that Gorbachev is the reason why the Iron Curtain came down.
And there's no mention of Ronald Reagan in the first four paragraphs that I can see.
I mean, they mention him, I think five or six paragraphs in as if he was just at the meeting by chance.
And he wasn't.
He r he literally brought the world more freedom.
More more economic choices.
And countries that hadn't been their own country for generations were able to have their own cultures again, their own histories again, their own ethnicities again, their own languages again, for God's sakes.
And to somehow say Gorbachev is the reason, Gorbachev didn't want any of that.
He had to do it.
Or else it was the literal end economically to the Soviet Union and it was going to be the literal end to any stance on the planet that Russia had.
So I it's so horribly misreported, and I hate that.
That the media is not the media.
He says journalism is dead.
I think it is for the most part, although I can name probably four or five that are still very good.
But but I mean that's when you see that from CNN and you hear all this crap about how they're coming back and they're getting rid of all the dead weight and they're gonna put real journalists back.
How do you how do you how do you write that story?
I don't think they do.
I I honestly think that we're really far gone here, and I also think that people have already I'm not I'm no longer interested in talking to people on the other side because I don't really think they're interested in what the other side has to say.
You know, one of the th like I've always enjoyed confrontation and debate and just having a conversation back and forth, and I love when somebody says, you know, uh, what do you think about this?
Well, change my mind.
What why do you think that?
What's your where are you getting your information from, right?
Not a lot anymore.
Not a lot anymore.
And so people are really uh there's a lot of uh there's a lack of information, there's an abundance of misinformation, and then there's a lot of disinformation, and then there's people who just don't care.
I mean, I have a friend, you know, and he was a carpenter, and he was saying the day, he goes, I don't I don't care.
I don't watch it, I don't want to know anything about it.
He goes, I literally don't, I can't.
He's like, I want to build my cabinets and go home.
I'm like, okay.
Well well, people are, they've they've been beaten numb.
They don't know what to think anymore.
And and you're right.
Having a discussion, you and I probably don't agree on everything, and I love having discussions with you.
I think that's very, very interesting because it brings i the fact is if you only live in your bubble, you think the bubble is life, and it's not.
I mean, listen, I will tell you, Jason on our team and I, he and I have had many, many philosophical conversations over the many years we've worked together and we don't agree on a whole lot when it comes to politics, but one thing I'll say to him, and he'll say to me, I'll be like, Well, why do you think that?
Well, where is that coming from?
What's your point of view?
And and I think that that's important to say that.
Well, what it what are the facts that support that?
What's your what's your perspective on that?
And that's just inside our own studio.
You know, I don't think that people I mean, there are literally people who cannot have holiday dinners anymore with the family because they cannot discuss politics at the dinner table.
Not that you want to discuss politics at the dinner table, but I really have an issue like with people who are like, well, you know, if you don't like Bill Clinton, then you know you can't sit at my dinner table.
If you don't like Donald Trump, you can't sit at my dinner table.
I'm like, really?
I think it makes no sense, but that's how polarized it is.
I mean, you have an American flag out, and now it means that you're a right-wing lunatic.
Isn't that crazy?
And that's really I mean, there's a percentage of the population, a pretty hefty percentage that believe that.
Uh what what bothers me the most is that sadly some people that didn't live through um the the peace talks in in Iceland will read that story and think Gorbachev was a peacemaker.
And that it blows my mind.
Uh uh I'm gonna take a a phone call or two if I can when we get back.
800-941 Sean, 1-800-941-7326.
It's Joe Pags in for Sean Hannity.
right here.
Plan to have you Pags in for Hannity.
1-800-941-SHAWN 1-800-941-SHAWN He will be back on TV tonight.
So don't miss uh Hannity tonight on Fox News channel.
Let's go to the website, uh the website to the phone lines while I have a minute here, and uh try to get your thoughts on remembering the Gorbachev Reagan connection and acting like Gorbachev somehow was the peacemaker, just makes me crazy.
What's going on, Wade?
Welcome from Oklahoma.
Hi.
Hey, how you doing, Joe?
Living the dream, man.
Talk to me.
I'm not necessarily going Gorbachev Reagan.
But when Gorbachev and uh H.W. Bush met in Malta.
We were the carrier on station.
Oh, nice.
We were the carrier group on station.
And he came on board and he gave us a speech.
And the attitude from different parts of our cruises.
It was palpable.
Everybody was calm.
Everybody was cool.
When we were up in northern Norway and the Russians were coming around there, you know, nervous.
When we'd go into the Persian Gulf area, temperaments were different.
Attitudes and nerves and everything else.
But Bush made it comfortable, made it feel better.
And he even, and this was after the Berlin Wall came down.
Yeah.
And he even presented our captain a chunk of that wall.
And thanked us for our service.
Were you allowed to celebrate?
I know that there's a certain protocol when you're in the military when you're on an aircraft carrier, but were you allowed to celebrate?
We were there.
We were I was standing about 25 feet from President Bush when he gave his speech.
Wow.
Nice.
Yeah, they brought in uh uh sailors from all the other ships in our carrier group.
It was great.
It was it was a it was an amazing, it was an amazing amazing moment for human rights, for freedom, for liberty, the people in Germany finally uh in in East Germany.
Most people who are around now probably listening don't remember East Germany.
They suddenly had a taste of free air for the first time ever, people that would be killed trying to get over the wall.
I mean, it had to be an amazing wait.
Thank you for your service, brother.
Had to be an amazing time in America and to be standing that close to him.
I don't recall whether there was a a uh celebration by those who were that close.
I'm guessing probably not, but I understand how how he said it was a palpable change of attitude and a palpable change in what we knew the world was going to look like, at least for the near future, which was a big improvement.
All right, Paul Manafort when we come back.
We're gonna break down Ukraine.
Why do we care so much about Ukraine?
1-800-941 Sean, 1-800-941-7326.
Joe Paggs in for Sean.
Great to have you along for the ride.
Thanks a lot for stopping by.
Really glad to have this guy back.
We had him on recently, but I wanted to have him back and also to bring him on the Sean Hannity show, too.
It's Paul Manafort.
Paul, how are you?
Good to see you again.
Good to be with you.
Yes, it is.
You know, it's it's interesting that we we had this big long conversation, and I realized at the end of it, and I just watched the end of it again right before we started doing this, and uh, we just barely touched the surface of Ukraine, and you spent a lot of time there.
You know exactly what the Biden connections are, and and I want to get, if we can, full throated into exactly what it is that we're seeing happening in that in that country that none of us really cared about before very recently.
By the way, get Paul's book.
It's called uh political prisoner, persecuted, prosecuted, but not silenced, and I hope that everybody will go and get this because finally we get to hear your side of things because you were made out to be the bad guy.
So if you don't mind, let's get right into Ukraine.
Um why why do we care?
Is it because once uh the Soviet Union or the former Soviet Union wants it to be more Russian and we want it to be more Western, or is there a lot more going on there?
Well, there's a lot of geopolitical importance of the country.
Um Putin believes that Ukraine is a part of Russia, not as a country, but as a part of Greater Russia.
Uh Kiev, as you may know, is was the first capital of Russia.
Yes.
You know, and so he thinks that the greatest injustice done uh to in in the last 40 years in this to the Soviet Union was when Khrushchev gave Ukraine its independence.
Khrushchev was Ukrainian and never thought that uh Ukraine would never be uh you know a free country.
Right.
So it was it was him looking good to his fellow countrymen without really doing anything to cut to hurt the Soviet Union.
Obviously, that ended up uh changing when the Soviet Union fell, and Putin always felt that you know Ukraine needs to be brought back into the fold.
So there's 44 million people, it's the breadbasket of Europe.
It's uh it's the second biggest country in your in as part of Europe.
And uh it does have real importance.
Um the the problem with Ukraine is the corruption.
And uh, you know, it's pr it permeates everything there.
Uh we've been trying to change it.
I tried to change it a little bit, it was not really possible.
So I spent most of my time in Ukraine, and I was there for about 10 years and elected a couple of parliament ministers and and ultimately the president in 2010.
Uh Is I I spent my time trying to bring Ukraine into Europe.
That's what I was focused on.
And we got the we had to change our the economy, the economic laws, the legal structure, the regulatory structure, work and the demands and requirements of the uh of the EU and the EC.
Um, but we did it.
And the reason Ukraine is becoming part of Europe in an extended way is because of the work that I did there.
So that when they tried to make me the link to Russia, yeah.
To Putin, I never thought it could have any legs because I was very publicly involved in the biggest thing Putin was opposing in politics in the region, which was the getting Ukraine to be part of Europe.
Um but in the world of Alice in Wonderland, you know, the media just kept repeating their lies.
Uh the Democrats keep making up things about my involvement while I was in solitary confinement with a gag hoy around me.
And uh and uh the the story was created out of whole clock.
Well, I want to I want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit if I if we can, because I've got a little bit of knowledge, which is dangerous for somebody about Ukraine and the history of Ukraine.
I'm not really sure I understand why Russia thinks they have a a stake to claim there.
Uh it's Paul Manafort, go and get this book right now.
It's called Political Prisoner, persecuted, prosecuted, but not silenced.
You get to hear his side of all the crap you've heard since 2016 about this man.
He gets it now to give his response and retort, and I urge you to go and get this book.
So I've looked at the history of Ukraine, and everybody's always wanted it.
I don't care what the empire was, they all wanted control of that place.
Is it because of the port?
Is it because that's how you got goods to and fro?
Um you people will say Russia doesn't want Ukraine to be part of NATO, and Joe Biden was dumb enough to say that we're gonna look at uh Ukraine become becoming part of NATO, so Russia gets to just invade their neighbor.
So why is it specifically that Russia thinks they get to stake their claim?
I understand it used to be the c the the the capital of the country, but before that, everybody else thought they owned it.
What why is it so important to Russia?
Because it gives them access to the Black Sea.
Okay.
And which is very important uh geo geopolitically and economically.
Um plus Putin believes that this recreating Greater Russia is part of his uh mandate uh from God, I guess.
So he's got this this vision, and and if we're gonna be the free leader of the free world, uh we can't just let him enslate 44 million people.
Right.
And and so you know Trump had it had it right.
He was giving weapons and he was putting Putin on notice um that uh that uh Ukraine needed to be independent, but he wasn't talking about NATO.
I mean, that was sort of the dividing line.
But but NATO doesn't even want Ukraine, right?
Because of the corruption there.
That was never even a discussion.
Why did Biden say that?
Do you know?
Why how does he say there's zero inflation in July?
That's true.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean uh that's the Democrats' problem, having to deal with things that come out of his mouth.
But but the ugly secret actually is even the Europeans are not hot on Ukraine being a part of of Europe.
Right.
They feel like they have to uh before it, so they talk to talk.
But Merkel, for example, she was she she dragged her feet because she was basically part of the Putin orbit.
You know, Nord Stream 2, which is the pipeline from uh Russia uh to to Europe via Germany, you know, that was that was a Putin payoff to Merkel uh to uh to be uh slow in in recognizing uh Ukraine uh as part of Europe.
And by the way, that pipeline was gonna gut uh the Ukraine because it was the sole way in which uh if gas flowed to Europe.
Um but you know, that plus you know, the deals that he did Putin invested in through Deutsche Bank into Germany, uh they they were not anxious to have Russia uh Ukraine part of them, but they didn't know how to not be responsive to the intention of the Ukrainians to want to be part of Europe and Obama basically let the Europeans take the lead.
Right.
Well well, under Obama, of course, Crimea was taken back by Putin.
Uh and then Trump comes in.
Putin doesn't do anything.
In fact, he stops the Nord Stream 2 from being built.
He forces the EU to buy resources from us in in look liquefied natural gas, and then four days after Biden takes office, they start construction of Nord Stream again.
So I mean, what were they afraid of Trump?
Was he a wild card?
Why did they why did they stop all of their aggression?
And we could add uh Iran to that and other bad actors around the world, North Korea that stopped their aggression under Trump too.
Why the difference?
Why did they know they could get away with it under Obama and they knew that they can get away with it now under Biden?
Well, and and one of the point I'd add to what you just said is Trump also was giving them weapons that Biden wouldn't give them.
I mean that Obama wouldn't give him and then Biden stopped doing when he became president.
So the team that Ob that Biden put into his administration was basically the Obama team in different chairs.
Uh Sullivan and Blinken and Newland, um, you know, and Rice.
Uh the and Putin understood that these people were weak and that they wouldn't defend America's interest.
Uh, and he understood that what he got under Obama was an opportunity to even expand under Biden.
Uh and you're right, Crimea, there was no consequence to him.
Nothing.
He was just literally rolling into Crimea and usurping it.
And then he caused put turmoil into eastern Ukraine, uh, that's uh it's uh and forced the settling up of temporary autonomous war zones.
Um it so when Trump became president, Trump put him on notice.
I mean, that you know, Trump's whole style of foreign policy, which you know was to confront deal with the people personally, let them understand where he stands.
And of course the West went crazy about that, the global Davos types went crazy about that.
Their attacked him, but his meetings with Putin, his meetings with Kim Jan, uh, you know, they were important meetings to put those countries on note, those leaders on notice, and coincidentally, nothing happened under Trump's term in either of those hot spots.
Well, it was if I remember right, that was much like what Reagan did with Gorbachev.
Uh and and when you saw those meetings in in Iceland, you knew that Reagan was walking in, whether he had the leverage or not, whether he had the upper hand or not, he was gonna pr portray that he did.
Uh and and he walked in and and he got Gorbachev walking out smiling and almost laughing because Reagan said, We'll just knock your your missiles out of the sky.
We don't care.
We've got we've got defenses that you can never touch.
You better not even play the game.
And then saying publicly, tear down the wall.
I mean, that that was going from strength, but it was strength face to face, eye to eye behind closed doors, which is what Trump was willing to do as well.
Biden doesn't leave the basement much, so he's not gonna do that.
And and and I think that he wants to make us look weaker anyway.
It's not really about him being incompetent.
I think he wants us to be weakened to the point that we have to rely on some global authority.
Uh, do you agree with that that he's trying to make us as weak as possible so that we have to become the globalists that he sees us as as being?
But he does not see America's role in the world to lead.
He sees America's role to have a seat at the table and not even a prominent seat.
Right.
Um and uh and and Blinken has got the same attitude, Sullivan's got the same attitude.
Um, and this is his foreign policy team.
So and Putin understands this.
I mean, he's a KGB-trained guy.
He understands all of this, and so when he saw the Obama people moving into the Biden administration, and then he saw that Biden removed the sanctions on Nord Stream too, and then he sees the debacle in Afghanistan.
Putin starts to say, okay, I'm just gonna move in.
And so he starts announcing in August that he's gonna move into Ukraine, starts moving troops, and he's telling everybody and uh what he's gonna do.
And nobody wants to believe it.
But it was apparent, and he was just waiting for winter because that's when the Russians always bring uh start their invasions.
And the and the good news is that Trump had put enough weapons into Ukraine that the Ukrainians were able to defend themselves in the beginning, anyhow, against what was supposed to be a blitzkrieg invasion by the Russians.
And Putin didn't understand, I don't think anybody in the West understood something that I did understand.
Yeah.
Uh I had done I probably did over a hundred polls in Ukraine, you know, from 2005 to 2014.
I understand the country very well.
And I understood something about Eastern Ukraine.
Ukraine's two countries.
Western Ukraine is more European, Eastern Ukraine is Russian Orthodox uh Ukrainians.
And in all of my polls, the Eastern Ukrainian, Eastern Rucranes living in the East, who were of Russian ethnic heritage, wanted to protect their religion, which was an important part, which Russian Orthodox versus Ukrainian Orthodox.
They wanted to protect their language, they wanted to protect their culture, but they also wanted to protect their freedom, and they understood the difference between freedom in the Ukraine and freedom in Russia.
And there was never a poll of mine.
Would you like like to be part of go back?
I mean have Ukraine become a part of Europe or part of Russia.
There's never a poll of mine where more than five percent of the Russian Ukrainians uh ever said they wanted to go to Russia.
Wow.
See it it's been portrayed to us, Paul, as you know, by the left media that they all want to be part of Russia.
And that's why, you know, they're sort of the uh the revolutionary force that wants to make Ukraine part of Russia again, because the ethnic Russians want that.
You're saying they don't.
They don't.
The people don't.
The people don't, and here's the other misnomer.
The old the businessmen, the oligarchs of Ukraine, they wanted to go to Europe too.
Wow.
And the reason they wanted to go to Europe was very clear if you understood the game.
Yeah, to the they were the backwater junior businessmen to Russian oligarchs.
They got no respect.
Um they were big dogs.
These are billionaire people who had were important in the it would deal with steel, dealing with aluminum, dealing with ore, deal with agriculture.
And there was a network that they could work with the Europeans on, where they'd be respected as businessmen, be able to make money that was legitimate, uh, and keep it, uh, and be and be sort of uh uh uh recognized in the West.
So between the Russian, I mean the Ukrainian oligarchs and the Ukrainian and Russian ethnic people in the East, there was no mandate for Putin.
None.
And so when he invaded, the fact that Ukraine had the weapons they needed, they were able to do guerrilla type warfare and push back the blitzkrieg.
And by the way, they had the the weapons they needed because Trump sent them the same weapons that he was illegally impeached over allegedly not sending because he wanted dirt on Biden.
That whole thing was such BS.
Uh, I'm glad that you that you said a few times they had the weapons and they had it from Trump, whereas Biden and Obama didn't want to send them.
It's Paul Manafort.
Get his book.
It's called Political Prisoner, persecuted, prosecuted, but not silenced.
I just got an incredible education on Ukraine, and we could probably talk about it for three hours.
Unfortunately, I've got about a minute, minute and a half.
And I want to ask you a couple of questions.
Number one, who is uh the who do you fear the most when it comes to our American way of life?
Is it Russia or is it China?
Who's our worst uh enemy right now, even if we're not saying it out loud?
Well, I mean, I'm of a different school.
I think Russia is the biggest enemy.
I mean, China, if you I mean, you read Kissinger's book on China, and you understand how China's always been sort of protective of their own interests in their region.
Right.
And it's their civilization that they're trying to protect.
And there's a case to be made that uh that China under Xi Jinping is looking to get greater China, which includes Taiwan, uh, into its orbit, uh, and including the South China Sea, but there they haven't looked at going into other countries.
Russia has gone into uh Georgia, they've gone into uh uh uh Ukraine.
Uh they show tendencies of trying to take over countries, uh, whereas China, it's a different game.
So I mean I think the I mean there's a China scare right now, and then we are legit should be legitimately watched.
Yeah.
But I don't I think the eminent current danger to freedom is is what's going on with Russia.
Now, you could say inside China there's not freedom.
That's a different issue, different discussion, and what our role in that is uh needs to be.
Well, what I learned from this conversation, Paul, is that we have to do it again very soon.
We just have to keep on having these conversations because there's so much knowledge that you have of the American people unfairly uh were were not they were kept from it.
Uh you were a bad guy.
You gotta go to Burriza, you gotta go to solitary confinement.
He's bad, bad, bad.
He's a foreign agent.
Uh, I'm glad that you're out here speaking the truth.
I'm glad that you you're giving this knowledge to us because we really need it.
Political prisoners, the name of the book, persecuted, prosecuted, but not silence, get it on Amazon, get it anywhere you get fine books.
And Paul, do me a favor.
I promise you'll come back again soon.
Absolutely.
As many times you want me, Joe.
All right, brother.
I appreciate you.
We're back after this on the Sean Hannity show.
Appreciate you hanging out.
It's the Sean Hatity show, 1800-941 Sean, 1800-941-7326.
Go to Sean Hannity on Twitter, go to Hannity.com.
It's Joe Paggs in for Sean.
Glad to have you here.
Another big hour next hour.
Tony Gonzalez from uh from Texas, U.S. representative about the border and more.
Keep it here.
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