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Nov. 30, 2021 - Sean Hannity Show
37:30
Little Guy Wins - November 30th, Hour 2
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When news broke earlier this year that baby KJ, a newborn in Philadelphia, had successfully received the world's first personalized gene editing treatment.
It represented a milestone for both researchers and patients.
But there's a gripping tale of discovery behind this accomplishment and its creators.
I'm Evan Ratliff, and together with biographer Walter Isaacson, we're delving into the story of Nobel Prize winner Jennifer Doudna, the woman who's helped change the trajectory of humanity.
Listen to Aunt CRISPR, the story of Jennifer Doudna with Walter Isaacson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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America Trapped Behind Enemy Lines.
Day number 108.
All right, our two Sean Hannity Show 800-941.
Sean, you want to be a part of the program?
Here we go again.
As it relates to COVID, as it relates to shutdowns, as it relates to, you know, draconian shutdowns on the economy, all of this is having such a negative impact on the entire country.
One of the funnier moments at the White House yesterday, Fox's own Peter Doocy confronting circle back Jen Saki on the idea that, oh, I thought travel bans were hysterical, xenophobia, and racist.
And Jen didn't have a particularly good answer.
Before Joe Biden's president, he said that COVID travel restrictions on foreign countries were hysterical xenophobia and fear mongering.
So what changed?
Well, I would say first to put it in full context, Peter, what the president was critical of was the way that the former president put out, I believe, a xenophobic tweet and how he called what he called the coronavirus and who he directed it at.
The president has not been critical of travel restrictions.
We have put those in place ourselves.
We put them in place ourselves in the spring.
But no, he does not believe.
He believes we should follow the advice of health and medical experts.
That's exactly what he did in putting in place these restrictions over the weekend.
Now, also, remember, the Democrats said that they're not going to ever have a COVID vaccine mandate.
Now, you want to know where vaccine hesitancy comes from.
No masks.
Masks don't work.
One mask, two masks, vax or masks.
Then it's vax and mask.
Then it's vax and mask and booster and then booster again and again and again.
And it just never stops changing.
And the bar keeps moving.
And flip-flop Fauci keeps lying and keeps getting everything wrong.
Just like on the gain of function, as you've been called out by Senator Ram Paul, who'll join us at the top of the next hour.
And it's, you know, and the news just keeps getting worse.
Massachusetts governor may impose a vaccine passport requirement there.
But down in Florida, Ron DeSantis has vowed to protect Florida from Biden lockdowns.
Florida right now has the lowest coronavirus case rate in the nation, and it dropped even further.
Now, you do have these upswings in geographical areas at times, but he's the one that put in place the monoclonal antibody centers all around the state of Florida.
But this judge and this ruling is huge on so many different levels, but they said they wouldn't do this.
Los Angeles now is enforcing vaccine mandates at gyms and restaurants and businesses.
Just like New York, you know, there's only less than a third of, for example, minorities in New York City that are vaccinated.
I don't know why.
I don't know what the reason is, but I think the debate over vax or don't vax is kind of over because people have made up their mind whether you agree with them or don't agree with them.
So now we're going to shut people out of everyday life to such a large extent.
You know, again, Democrats said they'd never do this.
Listen.
No, I don't think it should be mandatory.
I wouldn't demand it to be mandatory.
Perhaps the federal government should step in and issue mandates.
And if not, are you putting the needs of unvaccinated people ahead of the needs of vaccinated people?
Well, I think the question here, one, that's not the role of the federal government.
That is the role that institutions, private sector entities, and others may take.
We cannot require someone to be vaccinated.
That's just not what we can do.
I am all for more vaccination.
But, you know, I have nothing further to say on that except that we're looking into those policies.
And quite honestly, as people are doing that locally, those are individual local decisions as well.
I don't think you'll ever see a mandating of vaccine, particularly for the general public.
Yeah, Biden said it, Saki said it, Pelosi said it.
The CDC head, Walinski, said it, and flip-flop Fauci all said it.
And now it's happening.
Kids, we have 162 kids, very comparable rate of death from coronavirus, same rate of kids that would die from the flu, almost identical.
You know, I've been very consistent.
Take it seriously.
I've seen the worst of this.
I know people that died from COVID.
I know people that have been intubated and have survived barely, and those that have passed away on a ventilator.
I know people, do your own research, and I'm not talking about putting on a lab coat.
Read everything you can, things you agree with, disagree with, so you can ask intelligent questions of your doctor.
Factor in your unique medical history, your current medical condition.
Talk to your doctor, doctors, and then you're going to have to make an important decision.
I'm not a doctor.
I'm not trained as a doctor.
I'm not going to dispense medical advice without a license like everybody else on radio and TV.
But I do believe in freedom, and I do believe in the idea of medical privacy and doctor-patient confidentiality, which apparently many people do not.
Daniel Sir is with the Liberty Justice Center representing Brandon Trosclair.
I'll tell you about this case in a minute.
David Schoen is with us, Civil Liberties Attorney, and the federal government has been ordered to stop the implementation now of the enforcement of this vaccine mandate.
First, we had the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, then we had yesterday's Court of Appeals.
This Brian Trosclair employs 500 people across 15 grocery stores in Louisiana and Mississippi.
And thankfully, he says this ruling recommends now marks a tremendous success as the court is recognizing how the mandate would impair our liberty and infringe on our constitutional rights.
Anyway, Daniel, David, welcome to the show.
Daniel, tell us about Brandon.
Yeah, Brandon is a grocery guy, right?
He's a small business owner in a multi-generation family business in Louisiana.
And he just wants to serve his customers and take care of his employees.
And he doesn't think it's his job as a boss to get involved in these intensely personal medical decisions.
And yet the Biden administration, with his mandates on, is forcing Brandon into this position of having to either force his employees to get vaccinated against their will or saying to people who have worked for him for years that he's got to show them the door.
He just thinks that's wrong.
It's not right.
And what's more, it's illegal.
He wants the court to stop it, and we're winning.
We're getting courts to agree with us that this goes beyond the power of the government.
It's really unbelievable, David Schoen, that it's taken this long to get the courts to finally weigh in on the side of liberty and freedom on this.
Do you think this holds?
Do you think this gets to the Supreme Court?
It could well get to the Supreme Court, but I have to tell you, it has to be a great lawyering job in this case and the Missouri case because these opinions are real lawyers' judges' opinions.
They're very clear.
They support founding principles.
They support the idea of federalism.
And basically, what they say is we've just gone too far.
Some of these decisions, by the way, make clear.
We're not passing any judgment, as have some of the lawyers.
We're not passing any judgment.
Just what you said, Sean.
It's a decision for people to make.
You know, as you know, Sean, I've had COVID.
My entire family has.
And I lost my beloved mother to COVID.
So I take this all very seriously.
What these decisions say, though, is the government's gone too far.
The decision that you're talking about, the Fifth Circuit decision, the court said basically the government just decided they wanted to have some kind of fix.
So they scoured the regulations and the various agencies.
They came up with this one.
It just doesn't fly, as the court said in the case.
It's too broad and it's under-inclusive, both at once.
It said the mandate is a one-size-fits-all sledgehammer that makes hardly any attempt to account for differences in workplaces and workers that have more than a little bearing on workers' varying degrees of susceptibility to supposedly grave danger the mandate purports to address.
It doesn't take into account any individual concerns.
It really doesn't.
It seems like nobody wants to talk about it, and many people have actually come out publicly and said, the hell with your freedom.
You don't have the right to make anybody else sick.
Well, we're going to fire, for example, a lot of these health care workers, Daniel, in hospitals, nurses, and other health care workers.
These are people in the middle of this entire shift show that were diving on COVID bombs every single day and working COVID petri dishes.
We now have two countries with hundreds of thousands of people being studied in the case of Israel showing that when it comes to natural immunity versus the vaccine, there's a 27% greater protection rate if people have natural immunity.
And this specifically was against the Delta variant.
I thought we were supposed to follow the science.
Now, it's not peer-reviewed.
I want to see the final results.
But certainly those early numbers for nearly 800,000 people are encouraging.
And now we have a second study out with over 300,000 people showing pretty much the same thing.
Yeah, Sean, you are so right about these health care workers.
I'll tell you, I represent over 50 nurses in a hospital in Illinois who have asked for religious exemptions because of their deeply held religious pro-life convictions.
And the hospital has denied every single one of them.
These nurses have been showing up day in and day out for the last 20 months of this pandemic, putting their patients first.
And now the hospital is willing to just throw them to the side because they're not willing to compromise their convictions.
And that's just wrong.
But it's also illegal, right?
The law protects us in our individual right, especially when it comes to something as deep as our faith, to make these decisions.
And it expects employers to respect our conscience rights and to protect people so you don't have to choose between your deeply held beliefs and your job.
You know, David, you want to weigh in on that?
Yeah, well, I think one of the most important things that the court has said in this health worker case is what on earth are we doing with this type of broad-based remedy?
You're going to eliminate the health workers so they can't, there'll be no one there to provide, not sufficient people there to provide health care in order to purportedly address a health problem.
You got to make out your minds.
That's what the doctor said, essentially.
Quick break, we'll come back.
More with Daniel.
Sir David shown your calls uh at the bottom of this half hour.
800 941 Sean on number.
If you want to be a part of the program, all right.
More about the court orders now stopping in 10 states.
The vaccine mandate of Joe Biden.
We continue with attorneys Daniel Sur and David Schoen.
You know, but if you look at issues like freedom, medical privacy, doctor-patient confidentiality, David, Sir, they seem to have been totally eliminated from the conversation.
Yeah, that's so true, Sean.
There are these foundational principles about our country, and they're true, as David was just saying about states and federalism, that the federal government has to respect the right of states to be the primary decision makers in these areas.
But ultimately, both the federal government and state government need to respect individual liberties.
And that means individual religious liberty.
It means individual medical privacy.
And the right of people to make these sort of deeply personal medical decisions for themselves.
The Constitution protects us in those rights.
And though we've seen great progress in the courts so far on some of these structural limits on government power, we need to see more from the courts recognizing people's individual liberties that are also at stake in these debates.
Yeah, I mean, David, you know, Sean, I know you're a civil liberties attorney.
Nobody talks about civil liberties anymore.
Yeah, that's 100% right because what we've seen today is, for the last year at least, is the complete political partisanship attacking the Constitution.
We're willing to throw away bedrock principles in order to suit a political agenda.
Everybody recognizes there's a terrible health crisis here.
But we also have a system of laws.
Both have to be respected.
Yeah.
Yeah, Sean, I think the fact that the ACLU has flip-flopped on vaccines tells you everything you need to know.
That the ACLU, you know, which historically was a civil rights group, civil liberties group, would have protected people's rights, and they have totally flip-flopped in the last year on that.
It's just one more example of where David OS.
You still have the federal government firing people in the military.
They're losing their jobs now.
I know because people are calling this show and telling me that.
The same with nurses.
They're being replaced in spite of the court rulings.
At what point does a stay actually mean a stay?
It's a fair question, Sean.
You know, the OSHA mandate is suspended nationwide, but what we're seeing is these so many layers of mandates from the government.
And so even though for workers broadly, they're protected by the state that Brandon won, for a lot of people in individual circumstances, that's not the case.
And that's why it's so important that we fight not just on one front in this battle, but we have to fight on every front.
We have to sue them on every mandate.
We have to stop them in state court.
We have to stop them in federal court.
We just have to keep fighting and standing up for our rights because we know that they're not backing down.
They're not slowing down.
And that means we have to confront them on every single one of these.
I want to say one last thing.
In my view, as a lawyer, what you're doing is more important than what we lawyers can do because at the end of the day, this has got to remain a government of the people.
And you've got to continue getting the message out to uphold individual liberties while still being, you don't speak against vaccines.
You're just talking about the rule of law and our Constitution.
And you've got to get the people to understand what's going on.
That's what you do so beautifully.
It's more important, I think, than any given legal case.
Yeah, last word, David, sir.
Daniel, sir, sorry.
It's David Schoen.
Daniel, sir, sir.
Totally agree.
This is a time for the American people to stand up and fight back.
Like what we're doing in court is important, but it only happens when we have clients, right?
It's people who are willing to take on the government, who are willing to show up at work, knowing it might be awkward at the coffee machine because you're the guy who is not vaccinated, or you're the guy who's suing your employer or suing the government to stop this.
Like that, that's hard.
It takes courage.
You know what?
Like Brandon had that kind of courage to sue the agency that regulates his business, and he won.
And the more wins we get, the more momentum we get, it just builds on itself.
So this is a time for people to stand up and fight back in court and in their community to make sure we don't lose these precious liberties.
Well said.
Thank you both.
Daniel, sir, David Schoen, 800-941 Sean, our number.
We're going to get to your calls next half hour.
Quick break, right back.
When news broke earlier this year that Baby KJ, a newborn in Philadelphia, had successfully received the world's first personalized gene editing treatment.
It represented a milestone for both researchers and patients.
But there's a gripping tale of discovery behind this accomplishment and its creators.
I'm Evan Ratliff, and together with biographer Walter Isaacson, we're delving into the story of Nobel Prize winner Jennifer Doudna, the woman who's helped change the trajectory of humanity.
Listen to Aunt CRISPR, the story of Jennifer Doudna with Walter Isaacson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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We're back on the Sean Hennity Show.
All right, 25 now to the top of the hour.
We'll get to your calls here, 800-941-Sean, our number.
You know, it's funny when you think back 10 days after the first identified case of coronavirus in America happened to be January 21st, 2020.
Within 10 days, Donald Trump put in place a travel ban, and he was called every name in the book.
Racist, xenophobic, hysterical.
You know, this is discriminatory, et cetera.
Now Joe Biden is implementing one.
There was an exchange with Peter Docey and Jen Saki, as I played in the last half hour yesterday over this.
And what's amazing, then also Jen Saki says, well, the objective of the president's travel ban is to protect the American people.
And I'm thinking, look at this, and I'll play this for you, and think of this answer through the prism of Joe's cages for kids at the border.
Look at it through the prism of, oh, we don't need to test illegal immigrants for COVID because they're not going to be here very long.
That big Jen Saki administration lie.
And then, of course, flying people all over the country in the dark at night and the preferential treatment, which is no COVID testing, no vaccine mandates for illegal immigrants, only for American citizens.
And then, of course, amnesty, which they're trying to stick again into the reconciliation bill.
6.5 million people would get amnesty in that bill if it goes through in its current form.
They've now attempted this three separate times.
The Senate parliamentarian has said no each and every time.
I assume we'll say no again, but we'll see.
But listen to Jen Saki and think about the border and think about Biden's cages and think about the preferential treatment of illegal immigrants and even the policy that would pay illegal immigrants separated at the border, people that didn't respect our laws, borders, and sovereignty, 450 grand for family.
As you listen to Jen Saki's answer.
President insisted that the travel ban on South Africa doesn't punish them in the neighboring countries.
But South Africa's leaders say it does.
How long does the White House envision that travel ban staying in place?
We will continue to assess it.
I would say that the objective here is not to punish.
It is to protect the American people.
As you just heard the president say, this is not going to prevent, it is going to delay.
And that delay is going to help us have necessary time to do the research by our health and medical teams to get more people vaccinated and get more people boosted.
And he is always going to err on the side of protecting the American people.
Oh, really?
Did they do that at the border?
I don't think so.
All right, let's get to our busy telephones here.
A lot of you are, you know, hanging in here.
All right, we got to go to Brooklyn, New York.
Now, Mo, the liberal in Brooklyn, New York, has been calling this show for over 25 years.
I like Mo.
Mo, for some reason, actually has in his head that I'm like the most dangerous person in America.
Do you still believe that silliness?
Sean, I think you've been neutralized, but I'm not going to go there.
You're still a powerful.
No, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
You used to say I was the most dangerous person.
Why did you say that, by the way?
Why did you believe that?
Because I'm not.
Well, Sean, you're really an obstructionist.
You keep talking about originalism and our rights and our freedoms.
And liberty, freedom, capitalism, our Constitution.
Those are bad concepts to support in your mind?
Look, Sean, you know, I come from working people.
My family were iron workers and fishermen.
You know, I was teaching college.
Well, you know my background.
I come from working people, too.
Well, I was teaching college when I was 23, and I love college.
I was washing dishes at 12.
You want to go, you know, sob story to sob story here?
I mean, I feel blessed to live in the greatest country God gave man.
Well, we are.
Yes, we agree on that.
And Joe Biden, you can't name one.
You can't name.
Instead of working together to make the world positive, why are we ripping?
What are you ripping?
Okay, tell me how we tread the needle.
Now, was Joe wrong 13 days prior to he did this?
Was he wrong to abandon Americans in Afghanistan?
Can you at least acknowledge that?
Because, you know, if I was in the middle of the day.
No, no, no, Mo, Mo.
No, have a conversation with him.
Follow the bouncing ball.
Was Joe Biden wrong?
He promised he wouldn't abandon Americans and he abandoned hundreds of them and thousands of people with green cards and our Afghan allies.
Was he wrong to do that?
Sean, you're my host.
I'm not going to embarrass you about some of the things that I heard.
You're not going to embarrass me.
I'm asking, was Joe wrong to those people?
Help me out here.
I'm not going to embarrass you.
Yes or no.
Was Joe wrong to abandon American citizens, our fellow citizens behind enemy lines in Afghanistan?
Was he right or wrong?
Our president is never wrong.
He's never been wrong.
Never wrong since this has been America.
Has Joe Biden done a good job on the border?
And do you have a problem with his cages that he built in the middle of a pandemic?
God help us.
It's disgraceful what's going on on the border.
We understand that.
And who caused that?
Disgraceful.
And who caused that?
They're not our enemy.
They're people who are coming here to work for us.
Okay, but they have to come here legally, Moe.
We have laws.
We have to follow.
Maybe you as a liberal, you can get away with breaking the law, but you know, if I break the law, I'm going to jail.
You're laughing because it's all good humor is rooted in truth.
All right, let me ask you this question.
Don't you wish that we still were a country that was energy independent?
And isn't it embarrassing that Joe Biden is begging OPEC and importing oil from Russia?
Isn't that embarrassing?
I don't think we should allow any internal combustion engines to be built in America.
What do you want us to ride?
Bicycles to work every day?
I don't know what the answer is, but believe me.
I don't know what the answer is.
In the meantime, we'll hitchhike.
Oh, that's right.
There won't be any cars to get on.
You know, there will be an answer.
You see, the problem, Mo, is you can't answer my questions.
I'll tell you why.
Because Joe Biden, you can't name a single thing he's done that has benefited the American people.
His energy policies have now hurt the poor and the middle class.
It's caused inflation.
He's responsible for the supply chain crisis.
He caused the crisis at the border.
He could fix it by going back to the Trump policies that worked.
The world knows that he's a cognitive mess because he is.
All of these issues, he never should have abandoned a single American in Afghanistan.
That's not who we are, Moe.
You know better than that.
And yet you fight me on these things for, I don't know what, what, because you're too loyal to your party.
I don't give a flying rip about the Republican Party.
I'm not even a Republican.
I'm a registered conservative.
Conservative principles work.
Republicans are weak, a lot of them.
Some are really good, but a lot of them are pretty weak.
You know, I don't understand what you're talking about a lot of times anymore, Sean.
I'm really, and I'm 72 years old, so I could be losing it.
How have I been neutralized from the most dangerous person in America?
What happened?
Well, you know, I'm not going to say the issues that you're bringing up are gaslighting or not important, but I mean, we all know what the real issues are.
You know, you think paying a buck fifty more a gallon and paying a paper.
Hang on, Mo, Mo.
For poor middle-class people to have to pay 20, 25 bucks more to fill up their tank, 500 to 1,000 bucks more to heat their homes.
Everything they buy in every store they go to costs more because it costs more to transport it there.
Joe Biden caused those problems, and you're telling me that those aren't issues that are important.
To me, it's important.
And now, I can afford it, but there was a time in my life when I couldn't.
You know my life story.
You know that, you know, I was struggling to pay my own rent for years.
Cooking in a diner doing any of this stuff you're doing now.
It was a higher end.
No, it was a pub.
Give me a break.
You know, a little higher end than that.
And I was cooking steaks and making stuff, lobster and burgers and fries, and you name it.
Fettuccine, Alfredo.
I make the best shrimp, scampi.
I made all of it.
I'm really good.
All right, Mo, we love you anyway.
But, Mo, you're losing it, though.
You're not on your A game.
You got to call back when you're on your A game, all right?
But you really are, you really are a tremendous dignitary in America.
So you are.
Really?
How am I a dignitary?
I'm a nobody.
I'm just a John.
You're probably among the top 100 influencers in America.
Probably in the 220.
If I was that powerful, Barack Obama and Joe Biden would never be president.
Anyway, Mo, the liberal, we love you.
God bless you.
Have a great.
If I don't talk to you, have a great holiday.
All right.
Merry Christmas.
Oh, you actually say it.
Most liberals won't say it anymore.
Merry Christmas.
We love Mo, don't we?
Linda, it's been too long.
I love him.
He was one of the first people I ever talked to when I started working here.
First time I talked to him, he scared the crap out of me.
You know, I was like, I don't know what to do with this guy.
But, you know, he is, he is.
You know, it's just he, the liberals can't answer these questions.
I was not asking him tough questions.
I was asking him basic questions.
It's not even about that, though.
He actually believes what he's saying to you.
And I think that's why I like him because unlike other liberals, he believes it.
He's, you know, and honestly, he kind of reminds me of like, I'm sure you've heard this expression a thousand times and you've probably said it a thousand times yourself.
But it's kind of like the Reagan Democrats and the Kennedy Republicans.
Like those were the days where we could meet in the middle, where we could have some issues where we agreed on.
Hey, Reagan and Tip O'Neill, is it after six?
Meaning we have a drink.
Can we have a drink and just talk?
You know, and we just don't do that anymore.
I mean, I was talking to the speaker the other day.
It's the best.
We should be talking more.
Got to talk.
All right, back to our busy telephones.
Neil is in Vegas.
What's up, Neil?
K-Dawn Radio, what's happening?
Hi, Sean.
Yes.
By the way, you got a great candidate out there for Senate, Laxalt.
I like Laxalt.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, he seems like a good conservative.
He is a good.
You know what?
It's time for Nevada to go back to Red.
Same with Arizona.
Anyway, what's on your mind?
Well, you know, I was at a family get-together over Thanksgiving, and one of my relatives came in, and she was all wide-eyed saying, oh, my gosh, you know what?
I charged my Tesla up as full as I could.
And, you know, it's supposed to have 185-mile range.
And I got in my car and started driving to Vegas.
And after 100 miles, it died.
It just died.
Well, now, just to be fair, they have this plan as part of the new Green Deal radical socialism is that they want charging stations everywhere.
How long is it going to charge?
How long does it take to charge a battery?
I mean, you have to sit there and wait until the battery gets charged, or do you replace it with another one?
I mean, I'm not sure how that system is going to work.
Look, I am fascinated in new technology.
I once had a hybrid Escalade, and it saved some money on gas, and I didn't like it as much as the regular Escalade, but it was decent.
It was a good, you know, Escalade, you really can't go wrong.
And I tried it, and I'm fascinated with Elon Musk.
I'd love to interview the guy.
I've asked him.
I've texted him directly.
He's texted me back, but he doesn't seem to have any interest in coming on my show.
And I just want to, if somebody comes up with a way for cheaper energy, which is the lifeblood of the world's economy, and we don't have to be reliant on oil, gas, and coal, I'm not against it.
The windmill idea is just a bad, expensive failure of an idea.
It doesn't work.
Solar panels have never been perfected either that I've seen.
And right now, the lifeblood of the world's economy is energy, and that energy is oil and gas and coal.
And by us saying, OPEC, we want you to produce more when we can produce our own is just plain stupid.
And now the people that are suffering the most are the poor and the middle class in this country.
But all of us are paying more.
And we're paying more for everything we buy.
So I'm actually open-minded.
All right, I'll give you the last word.
Okay, yeah.
Well, the whole thing is that it's not just that the vehicle died.
When it discharges fully like that, you can't just plug it into something.
They had to be pulled up on a flatbed tow truck and towed the rest of the way to Nevada.
And they were in podunk.
So you want something to plug into out where there's nothing but desert?
It's not going to happen.
You know, and so it's.
No, listen, I think they would build charging stations.
I think they would have battery trade-out stations.
I think there's ways to do it.
I'm not, though, convinced yet.
I'm sure they'll figure out ways to extend the battery life so it can go further and further and further, probably eventually, maybe even coast to coast.
So there are ways to do it.
I'm interested in it, but I have not been convinced that's the future yet.
But I think that people like Elon Musk are making great strides in doing it.
And I'm interested in the Henry Fords of our day.
One of the greatest series I think you'll ever watch and you'll really like is the men that built America, the Rockefellers, the Carnegies.
By the way, these people were ruthless business people.
They were, I mean, they just were hardcore.
They have this reputation that, oh, they're rich and classy and Fifth Avenue and Park Avenue and New York City.
And let me tell you, when you watch this series, you see how tough they are.
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