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Oct. 25, 2021 - Sean Hannity Show
31:38
The Law Behind Baldwin's Tragedy - October 25th, Hour 2
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This is an iHeart Podcast.
Hour two, Sean Hannity show, 72 days, Americans abandoned by Joe Biden behind enemy lines.
That would be 85 days since he promised not to do it.
And now we even have the special envoy to Afghanistan admitting there are still hundreds of Americans still there, but Joe hasn't talked about it in over 50 days.
We've got a lot coming up.
One week from today, this is getting pretty interesting.
And that is what's going to happen in the Commonwealth of Virginia.
It'll be, I don't expect that New Jersey is in play like the Commonwealth of Virginia.
But if you've been watching the coverage down in Virginia, you see, let's see, they brought in Stacey Abrams, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, Jill Biden, Barack Obama joining us for insight as to what this means for 2022.
He is the former chief of staff of President Trump, Mark Meadows, former congressman and one of the founders and past president of the Freedom Caucus in Washington.
He's got a brand new book coming out.
We just put it up on Hannity.com.
It's out soon.
And it's called The Chief's Chief.
And I can't wait to read the real inside story of what went on.
Mr. Meadows, sir, how are you?
It's great to be with you, Sean.
And actually, in that book, there's a couple of mentions of Sean Hannity.
How you actually sided with the American people to make sure that not only their agenda was the first priority, but to fight for liberty and freedom.
But you're exactly right, Sean.
What's happening in Virginia is Terry McAuliffe stepped in it when he said parents shouldn't be involved in their children's education.
And then, you know, to highlight and suggest that when they get involved, they're domestic terrorists.
You've got to be kidding me.
I mean, most school boards want parents to be involved.
You know, the whole PTA was established to have parents and teachers working together.
And now Terry McAuliffe made the bad choice.
He sided with teachers' unions over parents.
And he's having to, you know, the rescue call went out for Barack Obama and everybody else to come in and bail him out.
I don't know that it works.
It's going to be radio.
Look, Joe Biden now is now in the mid-30s in his approval rating.
I mean, he's going downhill faster than anything.
And there's not a single topic I can think of.
I don't know if I should call you chief or congressman, whatever you prefer.
But I don't think there's a single item I can look to.
Afghanistan's been a disaster, and we learned more about that this weekend.
The economy's been a disaster.
Look at the Putin waiver, and you have to wonder what the hell's going on here.
Oh, you do.
Well, and I talk about that at the end of the book.
It's a conversation between me and President Trump where he says, Mark, can you believe that it's gotten this bad in just nine months?
And it was nine months at the time.
But literally, when we look at what's happening, whether it's the border or whether it's inflation or whether it's 13 Americans that lost their lives because of a decision that was made that didn't have to be made that way, it's unbelievable.
The other night, I was because I had to comment on it.
I watched an hour and a half of TV with CNN, Town Hall, and Joe Biden.
Let me just tell you, it was the most painful hour and a half that I've ever had to watch.
I can tell you this.
Hey, Mark, do you know how many people watched that show?
No.
1.2 million people.
And it was on a football night.
And we were way over two and a half times the audience.
And we didn't do anything special on that show.
I can tell you that.
I mean, it was nothing special.
And quite frankly, some of us had to watch it just so that we could go on on Fox to comment on exactly what was happening.
Anderson Cooper answered more questions than Joe Biden.
Joe Biden continues to turn his back on the American people.
And it was just pathetic.
But here's the other interesting thing is everybody wants to suggest that Donald Trump has lost his influence, and they want to point to Virginia.
And I can tell you, not only has he not lost his influence, his endorsement continues to be the most powerful thing I've ever seen in politics.
And quite frankly, a lot of people, even people who voted for Joe Biden, are wishing that they had voted for Donald Trump because of what's happening to our country.
Well, there's a new poll out that confirms that today.
John McLaughlin, over 20% of Biden voters have regrets.
Of course they do.
I mean, well, if they've got a mind, all they have to do is look at their pocketbook.
Less money in their pocket.
The purchasing power is going further.
And what's Joe Biden's answer to that?
He's going to knock on wood and hope that it gets better.
Knocking on wood is not a plan.
I mean, it is just a sad commentary for what's happening.
Somebody else, you've said it.
Somebody else is calling in the shot.
We also know they left people behind in Afghanistan.
They don't want to talk about it each and every day.
We find out that there was more to that than what they suggested here a few months ago.
Well, it's hundreds that you see, the problem with Joe Biden's decision-making is everything's preventable.
These are self-inflicted wounds.
And like Afghanistan, the number one, I got you to be one of many sources, including the president himself, and that's President Trump and also Secretary of State Pompeo, is that you had a plan that was predicated on if you do not follow every dotted I crossed T, comma, and period, we will obliterate you, just like we did the Caliphate, just like we did Baghdadi and Soleimani, et cetera.
And also it included America would hang on to Bagram Air Base.
It also was conditions based on the ground.
100%.
And Joe Biden watched the Taliban take over larger and larger geographic portions of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan.
And when he had full control of Kabul, why didn't he withdraw our people, green card holders, our equipment, our allies at the time when it was safe?
Well, and that's exactly the plan.
And you're right.
You verified it.
That was the plan that Donald Trump had.
He didn't want one, as he said, not one bolt, not one nut left behind.
We needed to keep the airbase.
And sadly, all of that could have been avoided.
The other thing that happened that is not getting as much coverage, they let the prisoners out of the prison.
And indeed, it was one of those prisoners who actually was a suicide bomber that took the law.
That didn't have to happen.
And under President Trump, it didn't happen.
And you got all kinds of people at the Department of Defense and Joe Biden and all of this saying, well, this was Donald Trump's plan.
It was not.
And we cover that.
I've spelled it out.
But you're right, Secretary Pompeo was very clear.
It was condition-based.
And the President Trump at the time wanted to make sure we got out.
I hear the president in that call or numerous calls with the Taliban leader was brutal and basically said, I will use whatever means necessary to take you out.
And I know exactly where you are at this moment.
Well, you're exactly right.
I highlight that.
And the Chief Chief, I've got it almost verbatim there.
And it was just a real chilling silence when you look at what happened.
And they believed him because he had taken out al-Baghdadi.
He had taken out Soleimani.
And when President Trump spoke and said, we're going to make sure that you're held accountable, they believed him.
Joe Biden, they laugh at it.
I mean, it's weakness in the extreme that they get to see each and every day, Sean.
Let me ask you this, because if you look at the disaster at the border, President Trump got us to a point, stay in Mexico policy, building the wall, ending catch and release.
Joe brings back process and release.
It's even worse.
We'll have a 30-year record minimum by the end of the year of illegal immigrants.
They also get special preferential treatment because there's no COVID testing and there's no vaccine mandates for people crossing the border.
And then they get free transportation in the dark of night.
And then we're told that's an early morning flight at 4 a.m., not an overnight flight.
And all of this was handled.
And then you look at the energy crisis.
You know, Joe Biden's now begging OPEC, and we're now taking, according to Senator Barroso's office, we're now importing more oil from Russia than we are from Alaska.
All of these, these are self-inflicted wounds, and that has a ripple effect on the entire economy.
Well, it does.
We went from energy dominance under President Trump to energy beggars under Joe Biden.
You know, we were begging OPEC for this.
And you saw it early on when he did away with the Keystone pipeline, but agreed to Russia that they could have their pipeline.
So, of course, Russia is enjoying the fruits of Biden's labor.
But it's not just that.
It's when you come in with what he's doing on the border, what he's done to jobs.
And here, news flash.
In this $3.5 trillion or whatever it ends up being, bankruptcy bill that Biden is talking about, you know, build back bankrupt.
I mean, what he's actually doing in there, they're giving $10 billion, that's billion with a B, to people who have come here illegally.
It is a bailout of the American taxpayer dollars.
Everybody that's tuned in right now should be just up in arms to see their hardworking American taxpayer dollar going to special interest groups and actually a special group that the progressives want to support.
What do you think of Manchin and Cinema and where they're really going to end up in this?
You know, it's a great question.
I think cinema has actually been holding tighter on the tax part of it, which is not a surprise.
Joe Manchin, if he's really looking out for the people of West Virginia, really, this money is not going to come.
A few dollars in what I call Washington, D.C. bailouts is not going to fix what ails them.
And essentially, they're going to do away with all kinds of businesses in West Virginia and across the way.
But what they're going to do, Sean, is they're going to lower the price tag.
They're going to say, well, we negotiated real hard.
But it's a Trojan horse because what they're doing is putting all these progressive left-wing policies in there, and they're only funding them for a shorter period of time, counting on Congress to go ahead and continue to put the money forward there.
This week is going to be the difference maker in all of that.
And so if you're tuned in, call your member of Congress, call your senator, apply the real pressure.
Hopefully, some of the Freedom Caucus and some of the freedom fighters will be able to stop it from happening this week.
Quick break more with Mark Meadows on the other side.
There is a shortage of practically everything in this country right now, and many people are starting to panic, rightfully so, about finding Christmas gifts.
I just don't get ⁇ I give a different way around Christmas, but I'm not going to get in.
about me.
I'm Mark Meadows as we continue.
His new book, The Chief's Chief, is out.
The link for our first edition copy is on Hannity.com.
Let me ask you, and I've not gotten an early copy of the book yet.
And now you made me nervous because I'm in it.
It ends up I'm almost in every book now that comes out.
Except I usually don't read it.
I end up because I don't trust the people that are writing it anyway.
But I will read yours because you've been a good friend for a long time.
And we have a link up.
It's coming out soon.
The Chief's Chief by Mark Meadows.
What do you know and what can you tell us?
Did you get into Anthony Fauci at all?
Because now that we realize that taxpayer money was in fact used to weaponize Chinese bat viruses at the Wuhan Virology Lab, something they have long denied, I am shocked that there's not a greater outrage over this.
Well, that's because you're one of the few people and Fox is one of the few places that's actually covering it.
Yes, so I do get in.
Fauci takes every position on a number of issues, not just on the gain of function.
I talk about in the book where literally late one night we find out that there's this funding going on to the Wuhan lab and President Trump and I cut it off within minutes of finding out.
But Dr. Fauci continues to advocate on behalf of that.
You know, what they want to do.
Well, he denies that they did it.
I mean, and it's just not true.
No, it's just not true.
And I mean, and even when he went on his apology tour over the weekend, trying to suggest that he had no knowledge of it, there needs to be a real investigation into that.
I can tell you there are emails from back in February of 2020 that indicated that there was a real concern about gain of function research that was going on in Wuhan.
And Dr. Fauci was part of those emails.
You know, now maybe he can say.
By the way, there was one on January 31st that that pointed out specifically that it looked like one of the genomes in the sequence of coronavirus.
This is the day of the travel ban, 10 days after the first identified case of corona, that he got a note from somebody saying it looked like it was manipulated in a lab.
Oh, and that's exactly right.
But you cover that.
And then what happens is there's this all-out blitz within hours of that email saying we need to change the narrative.
We need to make sure that, and indeed, within days, the narrative was changed.
I can tell you the other thing.
Dr. Fauci never spelled out any of this when he was in the Oval Office with President Trump.
In fact, it was President Trump that kept saying we need to hold China accountable.
And now what we see is Dr. Fauci with Joe Biden and them, they want to give China a pass.
It's time that we hold them accountable.
And it's time that we hold Dr. Fauci accountable.
I don't think they'll hold China or Russia accountable by the looks of it because I think the whole family's compromised and that's a whole different issue for a different day.
Mark Meadows with us, former chief of staff of President Trump, his new book is coming out soon.
It's called The Chief's Chief.
If you want a first edition copy, we have a link on Hannity.com and it's discounted, by the way, on Amazon if you want to get the real inside scoop.
This is actually from somebody that was there, not talking to a hearsay anonymous source like most every other book.
But it's called The Chiefs Chief, Hannity.com.
Mark Meadows, thanks for being with us.
We appreciate it.
Great to be with you, Sean.
Take care.
God bless.
You too.
800-941-Sean, our number.
You want to be a part of the program?
Quick break, right back.
Hey there.
I'm Mary Catherine Ham.
And I'm Carol Markowitz.
We've been in political media for a long time.
Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.
That's why we started Normally, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.
We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.
We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.
So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass, you're our kind of people.
Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen.
All right, 25 now to the top of the hour.
Toll-free our numbers, 800-941-Sean, if you want to be a part of the program.
All right, so we've all been following this sad, tragic shooting that took place on the set of this movie called Rust that was being filmed.
Alec Baldwin in the movie.
Anyway, he's responsible.
And this young woman, I think you say her name is Haliana Hutchins, 42.
And she has a young, apparently young children, died.
There was another injured party in this case, apparently a ricochet bullet.
They call it a prop gun.
A prop gun isn't really a prop gun.
It's a real gun, but it shoots planks.
And there are a whole series of protocols that are to be followed on the set of any movie.
And now the question is, for example, people are beginning to speak up.
The chief electrician says this death was the result of negligence and unprofessionalism.
Now it's raising a lot of questions about potential legal consequences for Alec Baldwin.
The worst case scenario, legal experts, for example, are suggesting that Baldwin could face an involuntary manslaughter charge if he found if it's found to be reckless in the terms of handling of the weapon.
The other issue that has now come to light is apparently there was a walk off the set by a number of union members because there were at least two accidental gun charges on this set prior to this moment when this woman, the cinematographer, was shot and there were other discharges that had taken place on October the 16th.
And former crew members said that prompted a complaint to supervisors about the safety practices on the set.
And then the crew members actually decided to walk out because they felt it was safe working conditions.
It's apparently a low-budget film.
The 911 calls came in and here's two of them.
Sanita Fire NEMS on Political Station Emergency?
Bonanza Creek Randolph had two people accidentally shot on a movie set by a prop gun.
We need helping media.
So was it loaded with a real bullet or one?
I cannot tell you that.
We were rehearsing and it went off and I ran out.
We all ran out.
They were butt-doubled over the ID and the camera woman and the night dude that yelled at me at lunch because asking about revisions.
This motherfucker, did you see him lay over my job and yell at me?
He first attracted guns.
He's responsible for the danger now, Mimi.
No, no, no.
I'm a script supervisor.
All right, joining us now on this, on the legal questions that may or may not exist, our friend Greg Jarrett.
He, of course, has his own podcast.
It's called The Brief.
And, you know, I think you agree with me.
I can't get to, in spite of Alec Baldwin hating my guts, I always try to be true to the principle of due process, presumption of innocence, until proven guilty.
I just can't get, I can't get to the fact where I believe that he would in any way be part of something to shoot at an innocent woman such as this.
It just doesn't make that I can't get there.
I don't believe that happened.
Well, I agree with you.
But with that said, you're pointing out in your column that there is legal liability potential here.
That's right.
Because, Sean, even an accidental death can actually rise to the level of criminal homicide if it involves reckless acts or grossly negligent conduct, especially if the tragic consequence is reasonably foreseeable.
As you point out, Three members of the film crew had reportedly stated there were two other accidental gun discharges on that very set days before the fatal shooting.
That puts everybody in charge, including Alec Baldwin as an on-location producer.
It puts them on notice.
There's a problem here.
Did they immediately shut down operations and conduct an investigation to make sure this didn't happen again?
You know, these are dangerous, lethal instrumentalities, even if they're supposed to be used as a prop.
They're real guns that are supposed to be filled with empty casings known as blanks.
But, you know, what is confounding to me is that this low-budget film hired a very inexperienced armorer by the name of Hannah Gutierrez.
This was her second film, and she was on a recent podcast saying essentially that, you know, she was worried about her inexperience, her lack of capability.
You know, the armorer is the person who maintains the weapons, handles, secures them, loads them with blank cartridges, and she's supposed to check and double-check the gun, and she's the one who's supposed to hand it to the actor, not the assistant director.
So we're seeing here already that, you know, the rules, the standards and duties were breached.
And that leads to things like involuntary manslaughter, which is a lack of due caution resulting in death.
So, but in most cases, when there's a firearm on the set of a movie, when the movie's being shot, there is one person whose job it is to ensure that this doesn't happen.
And there was such a person, right, that was identified here.
Now, according to, we get mixed reports, but it has been reported by a number of sources that Alec Baldwin was told that the gun is cold, meaning that it only has blanks in it.
And apparently he was rehearsing, and apparently he aimed at the camera where the cinematographer, I guess, was right behind the camera.
And she's the one that got shot and got killed.
Then there was a ricochet, and I think a director or producer got hit with the ricochet and thankfully is okay.
But this woman's dead.
You know, look, there was a prior incident, so they're put on notice.
Even if Alec Baldwin, the on-location producer, in addition to being the actor, was unaware of these prior gun mishaps, you know, he should have been aware of it.
And a prosecutor would argue that a responsible director would have put procedures in place to make sure that such vital information about gun discharges was conveyed to him in his executive capacity overseeing the film.
And failure to do so, Sean, is the kind of recklessness and negligence that the law forbids.
When you accept an increased role, a responsibility for a production as a producer, that carries with it a corresponding increased duty to protect the employees.
So while I agree with you that if Baldwin had no idea there was an actual bullet in the project or projectile in the gun, he can't be charged with murder, but he could be charged with a lesser offense of involuntary manslaughter for being negligent as a producer on location.
So where do you see this going here?
I mean, what is the process now?
I assume they're going to do a forensic investigation.
I don't know if the shell casing is available, but I would imagine it would be, right?
So they'll check for fingerprints.
They'll do all the forensic, normal forensic police work that they would do.
How do you prove negligence on this level?
Well, it's fairly obvious in many ways.
For example, they will investigate and interview David Halls.
He is the assistant director who picked up the gun off a cart, handed it to Baldwin and yelled cold gun.
Where in the world did he get that information?
He's not qualified to make that decision.
He is not the one who is supposed to ever touch that firearm.
It is supposed to be under the standards in the industry, only the armorer who hands the prop guns and personally delivers them to the actor.
So why did Hall, not Gutierrez, give the weapon to Baldwin?
So there's negligence right there that seems fairly obvious.
But what about Gutierrez the Armor herself, who loaded the gun and is supposed to secure the gun?
You know, she gave a podcast interview, and that interview will be used against her as nearly a confession that she was incompetent on the job.
And so that's also criminal negligence.
And, you know, I see this very similar to the 1982 filming of the Twilight Zone, the movie.
Actor Vic Morrow, two-child actors, killed.
The director and several production managers and producers were charged with involuntary manslaughter.
They were later acquitted by a jury.
They were.
That case represents a chilling reminder that so-called accidental deaths in movie making are still prosecutable as crimes.
All right, quick break.
More with Greg Jarrett on the other side.
800-941-SHAWN is our number if you want to be a part of the program I have more with Greg Jarrett on potential legal liability for Alec Baldwin and those working on the set where this tragedy occurred late last week
It's going to be interesting, too, because, again, if this was a conservative, if it was Charlton Heston back in the day when he was the president of the NRA, I'm sure there would be a whole different take.
And of course, he'd be blamed for it.
But there's somebody whose role it is to make sure that that's a real blank in that weapon.
And what really bothers me, I guess, on top of everything is they should not have had live rounds there anyway.
You know, if you bring a firearm into your house, it is a great responsibility.
I've had a license to carry my whole adult life in Rhode Island, California, Alabama, Georgia, New York.
I've carried weapons my entire life.
And I have more fingerprint safes in every location than you'd ever imagine because I believe in gun safety first.
Yeah, I agree with you.
I'm bewildered that anyone would bring real ammunition to the set of a movie.
Why?
I mean, there's no reason for that.
And yes, it's sort of a habit in the industry and it's a bad one to use real guns but load them with blanks.
And some, like Gutierrez, the armorer, was also using something else called dummy wads.
They're different than blanks.
They replicate the exact appearance of real bullets inside a gun cylinder.
As if anybody, you know, watching a movie would actually see that through the cylinder.
Is it possible that she just failed to distinguish between a dummy wad and a real bullet and confused herself when she loaded the gun?
In other words, was this a totally preventable mistake that should never have happened had there been a knowledgeable and capable armorer instead of a 24-year-old neophyte who may not have even been licensed?
Did this happen because it was a low-budget film?
And they're sacrificing the safety of the actors and the production crew to save money.
All of these things will be part of the picture.
Well, I think there's two main things, though.
I think the most damning information is they had two other incidents involving a real bullet.
Number one, then you have the issue of the crew.
I mean, the people that are union walking off the job because of safety concerns.
And that you had a problem with this very issue.
So it wasn't dealt with.
And they had an opportunity to deal with it.
Now, maybe if the person really is knowledgeable in the use of firearms, you're in the desert in Santa Fe, and there might be a safe place for people to shoot real bullets at targets, but you would need great specific care to distinguish between a blank and a real bullet.
Yeah, you would.
And you've got to have somebody who's more experienced and knowledgeable and better trained than somebody who's 24 years old and self-taught, although she claims she learned some from her father, who's a licensed armorer and a stuntman.
But that may not be good enough.
And you can bet if charges are brought, the prosecutors will make that argument that this is a person who just wasn't competent or capable enough to be handling such dangerous instrumentalities with so many other innocent people standing nearby and failed to control the weapon itself, leaving it on a card for the assistant director who should never have touched the gun to pick it up and assume that it was a cold weapon.
That was a deadly assumption.
Well, obviously.
All right, we'll watch it closely, but it's certainly a little bit more complex than maybe we thought towards the end of this week.
My guess is it sounds like a terrible series of horrible tragedies, and there were signs that this was going badly, and nobody stepped up to take control of the situation, which they should have.
That's right.
And that's what makes it criminally negligent.
That's where the legal side comes in.
And that's where it gets interesting.
Now, I don't think it happens because, of course, you're dealing with Democrats and there's a whole different set of standards.
But, you know, for everybody out there, whenever you hear of these incidents where there is a firearm accident of some kind, you know, learn from it.
You know, double down on your safety.
And it doesn't hurt.
One of the things I'll say to everybody is wherever you go, whatever range you might go to, anybody you know that knows firearms, they are more than willing to spend as much time as you would like to make sure you are proficient in the safety and the handling of that firearm.
And I'm still learning from people, and I've been doing this since I'm 10 years old.
Anyway, appreciate it.
We love you.
Greg Jarrett, thank you.
Great analysis.
800.
And I know others, if this was me, I'm sure Alec Baldwin, Hannity's a murderer, Donald Trump's a Nazi.
You know, the same thing that you always do.
But I'm just trying to give you the truth.
And I'm hard-pressed to believe that somebody, it's possible somebody could have done this on purpose.
If so, we really need to get to the bottom of it.
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