Sean Hannity Show - Rudy! - 8.10

Aug. 10, 2018 - Sean Hannity Show

01:36:05

Rudy! - 8.10

Sean was off today but a very special guest to the healm of 'Hannity' in the one, and only, Rudy Giuliani. "America's Mayor" was joined by Jay Sekulow to talk about President Trump's fight with the liberal media. Plus, 88 days until Election Day! The Sean Hannity Show is on weekdays from 3 pm to 6 pm ET on iHeartRadio and Hannity.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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	Hey, welcome to the Sean Hannity show.
	Jay Seculow and Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	How about that?
	Giuliani and Seculo.
	Isn't that nice?
	That is.
	Hmm.
	We could start all kinds of speculation.
	Herndon and Lincoln.
	Uh-huh.
	There you go.
	Right.
	Hey, anyways, welcome to the Sean Hannity show.
	When we get to sit in for Sean Hannity, then Linda's giving him a day off.
	He doesn't get many of those, but we're glad that he's taking a day off going to a wedding or whatever he's doing.
	But we're here and we're gonna be taking your calls.
	And by the way, you need to know who we are because you know who Ray Moot Rudy Giuliani is because he's America's mayor.
	I'm just a lawyer.
	Um I'm Jay Sekul, I'm just a country lawyer.
	Just a country.
	You can tell by the accent, I'm a real country lawyer.
	Uh I am Jay Secular, Chief Counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice, and one of the counsel to the president and Rudy Giuliani, of course, America's mayor, former U.S. attorney, Department of Justice official.
	And uh for purposes of right now, my colleague and co-counsel in a case involving uh a Russia inquiry that we're engaged in.
	You may have read something about it.
	We're also going to be taking your calls.
	And I'm gonna give the number correctly because Linda said get the number correctly.
	1-800-941-7326 or 800-941 Sean.
	That's because I gave the number to my radio broadcast uh before.
	I've done that before on this broadcast, and I'm not gonna do it again.
	So, anyways, 1-800-941-7326 or 800-941 Sean.
	You could ask Rudy Giuliani or me, either one of us or both of us at the same time.
	Questions of the day.
	We've got a lot to talk about.
	Obviously, a lot of you are gonna want to talk to us about what is happening uh with regard to the Russia probe.
	We are also talking about, and this is uh important.
	Uh that's an important issue also, but uh Rudy and I have both been working for over a year trying to secure the release of an American pastor uh named Andrew Brunson, who's was in jail for uh 19 months in Turkey.
	He's now at house arrest.
	We're close to getting a resolution in that case.
	The president, uh Rudy, you and I both know it's been working nonstop on this.
	We've been you and I have been working on this for a long time, but we're getting close.
	I mean, we're getting there, but Turkey's taking a real hit financially right now, especially today.
	Turkey is taking a real hit financially.
	They're their economy is in is in trouble.
	It reminds me to some extent of what's happening in Iran with the sanctions that have been placed there.
	That just it's it sort of just doubles down on their economic problems to start with.
	And I think people are starting to realize what happens when America uh imposes sanctions.
	All of a sudden, other countries don't want to trade with you.
	Yeah, because they need the American banks, they rely on the American banks.
	America could then impose sanctions on them for doing it.
	And I think it's a this idea that we need all these other countries to agree with us on sanctions.
	We drive we drive the world economy.
	Well, I know in Iran on the Iran issue, you've been very involved.
	And uh, of course, I had a we had a another American that was held hostage by the Iranians.
	Got out uh a couple years back.
	Uh and again, sanctions the president uh is imposed uh finally, you know, they've been for a couple of uh administrations they've been saying crippling sanctions, but now they actually did it.
	What kind of impact do you think it's gonna have in Iran?
	Tremendous impact.
	Without the sanctions, based on just their own internal economic problems.
	They've had uh demonstrations and protests in over 142 cities starting in January.
	They're uh very, very well orchestrated.
	People have been arrested and killed, but they still go on.
	They're getting worse.
	The economic problems get worse.
	There's a chance.
	I don't want to overstate it, but there's a chance that this regime could be in trouble.
	I I think that's right.
	And in Turkey right now, with their falling economy, I think they've got to make some tough decisions.
	And one of them is not so tough.
	Let the Americans, not just this pastor, let the Americans that you're holding hostage, Turkey, let them go back to the United States.
	Not that complicated.
	I understand this is a lot of political issues and it's a lot of, but it's sure looking like hostage situations.
	Having said all of that, there's also some news on the domestic front you may have uh been following.
	And that uh the mayor and I have been involved in, and that is in our representation of the president.
	And of course, you heard that there was a response that uh we put together with our team.
	We've got a great team of lawyers involving uh a request from the special counsel to interview the president of the United States.
	I'm sure you're gonna have some calls and comments about that.
	We have had some comments about that, to say the least.
	We've been talking about that.
	We're not going to tell you what we have said, even though Rudy wanted to the other day.
	I was afraid to get mad at me.
	He did say that actually.
	He said that to a reporter.
	He said to this particular reporter, I I I wouldn't mind saying something, but Jay would be really angry if I did.
	But we will tell you this.
	Look, this is a process that you're we're going through right now, and uh there's a lot that go in that goes into it.
	I think the Constitution's clear that there's not a right to interview the president under Article Two.
	I think the Supreme Court would come to that conclusion.
	I think it also raises a serious issues, not just for this president but for future presidencies, and especially, Rudy, with the nature and scope of the cooperation that this White House has given to the investigators.
	Is it's unprecedented, especially in light of the irregularities.
	We'll go through the irregularities in a minute, but but but this has been unprecedented cooperation.
	It has.
	It's been unprecedented cooperation.
	So the end what that yields is under any set of circumstances, the court is going to require they make a showing for why they need the information.
	Well, they already have it.
	They already have all the information plus more.
	They they would have no ability to show uh need for this information.
	Uh for example, they have his explanations.
	He's given them on television, on radio, on tweets, on the Remember they were arguing one of the reports was obstruction by tweet.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't mean think about that for a moment.
	Obstruction by tweet.
	I mean, how can Okay, so they're gonna be able to do that.
	Well, I'm gonna give you a great example from Greg Jarrett's book.
	Greg Jarrett points out that uh um Barack Obama during the uh 16 election pronounced Hillary Clinton uh innocent.
	Right.
	He said he said uh she may have been careless, but she didn't affect national security.
	Well, several weeks later, that's exactly what Comey wrote.
	She may have been c careless, but she didn't affect national security.
	So you could say he obstructed that investigation.
	Uh except for the fact that he was doing the same thing that our president does, except on different set of circumstances.
	He was giving his opinion.
	Which is protected, by the way, by the first amendment to the United States Constitution, protected by his authority is under Article II of the United States Constitution.
	After all, he's the president of the United States, and the president of the United States gets to not only opine but to take action.
	And the idea that you would question a president about the motives and why he terminated a subordinate raises, as I said, really serious uh constitutional issues.
	Having said that, uh, we have been and continue to maintain a very cooperative attitude.
	But I will tell you about that cooperation.
	We draw lines, and uh we rejected the proposal that came out from the special counsel in this last round.
	We came back with another proposal.
	We'll see what happens on that.
	But you can be cooperative, you can be professional without uh you don't have to be disagreeable.
	But if you look at the scope and nature of this inquiry, the way it started, the corruption at the outset.
	Uh we've joined later in the broadcast.
	We've got uh, you know, John Solomon coming up, who did a great story in the hill about Bruce Order, the number four at the Justice Department, is in conversations with Chris Steele, who's working with Fusion GPS to put together this dossier on the president.
	Just happens to be Nelly Or, Bruce Orr's wife, is also working for Fusion GPS and just happens to be assigned mayor too much too much to working with Christopher Steele on the dossier, which then James Comey takes and reviews with the then president elect uh in Trump Tower in January of 2017.
	If you're looking for collusion, you got it.
	Whatever that means, by the way.
	Uh, you know, that that's another story, the crime of collusion, which, of course, as I said, uh the rule regulation and law on that one, I'm still trying to figure out.
	I think they are still trying to figure that out as well.
	But having said all of that, you you look at the irregularities in this investigation and the way it's gone on.
	I w we have how about the fact that the special counsel's appointed because James Comey decides to leak a memo of a conversation he had with the president of the United States purportedly, and he leaks this memo to get a special counsel.
	And he says that in his sworn testimony.
	Why did he think he would why did he think it would yield a uh uh um a special counsel and independent counsel?
	I mean That's a great question.
	I mean why would why would the the Justice Department certainly wasn't conflicted from uh well you can argue whether whether Sessions was, but the Justice Department wasn't conflicted.
	Well how how did he know that Rosenstein would use that as the basis for an independent counsel?
	Did they have a conversation about it?
	Did they talk about it?
	Um I don't know.
	My suspicious nature tells me he must have known something that hasn't been revealed yet.
	Well, look, we're getting information every single day.
	I mean, there's new information coming forward on this.
	I mean, literally every single day.
	I mean, it's not it it seems like there's a new aspect of this that we you you can't even believe, and then it then it happens.
	I mean, that doesn't even get into the issues of the Pfizer warrant and what that was based upon, and as I said, how would you like to be that judge?
	I mean, in the Pfizer case.
	Talk about, you know, information that uh isn't correct, purportedly, and that's what we're hearing from uh Congress, of course.
	And then you and I take it another step on this, and I think this is important for everybody to understand is we have a job to do, which is to give our client the appropriate advice.
	What do we think he should do in light of all of the issues and in light of the Constitution?
	And that is a that is a the highest honor that any lawyer could have representing a president and defending the Constitution.
	And that's why we have to go through a deliberative process.
	Yeah, we can't just shoot from the hip.
	We have to be able to have thought it out.
	We have to also be able to answer his questions.
	And you know he takes this very seriously.
	He does have a desire to do a desire to explain that he's innocent, which he is, but he also understands his role as president and that he just can't throw aside uh prerogatives of the presidency.
	Yeah, and this also impacts.
	I mean, let's be realistic here.
	This will impact not just this president.
	The decision we recommend to the president not only impacts this president, but it becomes a precedent then for other presidencies.
	Interestingly, as we're doing the analysis, and you look at uh how how witnesses uh have cooperated in this case unprecedented.
	You look at information that's gone over to the special counsel unprecedented, and then you look at what had presidents done.
	I mean, sometimes it's been written questions.
	That's still uh an interview.
	Um so that may be one way this can go.
	Sometimes it's combinations thereof.
	We'll see.
	I mean, you know, as we're not going to and I I think this is something we need to say.
	We're not gonna disclose what we have come back to the special counsel with.
	I don't think we've heard the end of this.
	There's a lot of speculation out there.
	But we're gonna make the the right advice to our client.
	There will be no perjury trap.
	I've said that, you've said that on air.
	There's no perjury trap here.
	We're not because we're not gonna allow it.
	No, no, no.
	I mean, that that's so obviously one of the things they're trying to do that um it it it it's not easy, but we can we can certainly protect against that.
	And I think that's one of the things that's well, I don't want I don't want to talk about the Manafort trial.
	Yeah.
	So let's let's move on to the right.
	But I mean, on uh on the I will say this on you know we can do it after when you say a perjury trap, and in other words, here's you've got you got one witness that says this is what happened, and then you got another witnesses that recalls well, no, that's not how I recall it.
	It happened this way.
	And is does then someone write up a report and say, well, we believe this one, we don't believe that one, thus it's perjury.
	So this is the problem with with just walking anyone in.
	I mean, in any case, and with no underlying crime.
	Right.
	I mean, again, Flynn is the example.
	Uh no crime.
	Uh if it had been said, President says go easy on him.
	Uh, which the president says, you know, he didn't say stop it, don't do it.
	Uh so no crime.
	However, it didn't take place according to the president.
	According to Comey, it did.
	Now we're not.
	Of course, if it did, it wouldn't have mattered, but then you but but you're right.
	If there's two different recollections of a meeting, now do you set set a perjury situation?
	Correct.
	Now we have plenty of we got plenty of information to impeach him with, including the fact that he testified under oath.
	By the way, when we say impeach him with, we mean impeach the other witnesses.
	Impeach the witness.
	Call me, call me James Comey.
	There.
	I just want to I don't want anybody to clip that two seconds ago.
	I know.
	I know I know it's hard to believe that people do that to you and make up.
	CNN would never do that.
	None of them would.
	Nobody will clip just a sentence and then remove the other sentence.
	But but having said that, no, you're right.
	I mean, that's part of the process that we're going to get into.
	All right.
	So we're going to take we're having a good time.
	By the way, you can follow Rudy Giuliani on Twitter at what's your Twitter handle?
	At Rudy Giuliani.
	Yeah.
	And you could that's not so hard.
	And mine's at Jay Seculo.
	So are we sure about that or do I need to check this out?
	Linda, you check it out right now.
	It's at Jay Seculo, that I could tell you for sure.
	You could also follow our work at the American Center for Law and Justice at ACLJ.org.
	When we come back from the break, your calls and comments.
	At Rudy Giuliani.
	There, he's got it right at Rudy Giuliani.
	Hey, welcome back to the Sean Hannity Show.
	Jay Seculo here with Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	Giuliani and Seculo.
	I'll just say that.
	I'll just say that.
	And we're taking your calls.
	We're going to go to a call in a moment.
	I need to say something though.
	I had the privilege today to go to the Statue of Liberty and go by Ellis Island with my grandchildren.
	And I am the grandson of a Russian immigrant to the United States.
	My grandfather was a group peddler in Brooklyn, New York.
	And his grandson, me, I get to argue cases at the Supreme Court of the United States and represent a president.
	And I had my my my grandson was with me and my I had three of my grandchildren.
	I got to tell my grandson, I said, no, I'm the Paw Paw right now.
	So I said, you know, my Pawpaw, your great, great Paw Paw, came right through that building at Ellis Island in 1914 to come to the greatest country in the world, the United States of America.
	And my his eyes lit up.
	I'm just saying it is a great country.
	And you think about those things, and I know your family.
	So I have a very, very good friend Elliot, who came to America when he was four or five, uh, escaping the Holocaust, and he will tell you he has amnesia.
	Uh of course he was only three, four years old.
	But anything before the following thing.
	As he's coming through the Verizano Narrows, first thing he remembers is seeing a Statue of Liberty.
	Yeah.
	And when he tells you that story, Maria, right?
	He uh he started crying.
	Yeah, well, it's cry today.
	I mean, it's 60, 70 years later, and he'll start crying today.
	Well, I think about that when I argue cases at the Supreme Court, they start them the same way.
	God save the United States, the Honorable Court.
	They call a case number, they call a case number, and then they say, Mr. Seculo will now hear from you.
	I'm thinking Mr. Secul, the grandson of the Russian.
	You ever have a dream that you forget what to say when you get him?
	I don't even get, you know, I don't recall ever in my cases actually opening up the list.
	You everybody takes up a notebook.
	I don't recall ever turning to the first page.
	It just moved so quickly.
	Mr. Secolo.
	So we're co we're co-hosting for Sean Hannity.
	I'm at Jay Seculo on Twitter, and Rudy is at Rudy Giuliani on Twitter.
	And you can follow me also on ACLJ.org.
	And we're gonna not take a call yet because we're gonna be taking a break pretty soon, but we're gonna take calls when we come back.
	So you can call us at 800-941-7326.
	That's 800-941.
	Rudy Giuliani, the mayor of New York, the great mayor of New York, America's mayor, and me, just a lawyer.
	It happens to be both of us represent the president of the United States.
	We got a lot to talk about.
	We're looking forward to talking with you.
	But I will tell you this.
	When I talk about that thing with my grandson, boy.
	That gets you, right?
	It every time.
	All right, we'll be back with your calls in just a moment.
	You won't hear the mainstream press talking about this stuff.
	Sean Hannity is on the radio.
	Hey, welcome back to the Sean Hannity Show.
	It's Jay Seculo and Rudy Giuliani, guest co-hosting for Sean Hannity.
	We are also taking your phone calls at 800-941-7326.
	That's 800-941 Sean.
	You can follow Rudy Rudy Giuliani at Twitter, at Rudy Giuliani.
	And you could follow me on Twitter at Jay Seculo or at ACLJ.org.
	We are also taking your calls, as I said, again, 800 941 7326.
	Let's go ahead and go to Dayton Ohio.
	Peter is on the phone.
	Hi, Peter.
	Yeah, hi, Mr. Secolo.
	Thank you for taking it.
	Call me Jay.
	Don't call me.
	You don't have to call me Mr. But go ahead.
	Hey, I just don't know.
	And I'm just I just confused on the fact that we know criminal activity.
	Uh and and speaking in regards to Hillary Clinton.
	We have proof of that.
	And why are we not pursuing that?
	Why is not A. G. Sessions pursuing those criminal acts.
	You got a little rain going on there, Peter Peter.
	Sounds like either Lama Drummer.
	You you're either keeping a really steady beat, or you're you got or or you get right.
	Or a click.
	Or or you're you got your wipers on.
	It's one of the two.
	I suspect it's your wipers.
	But anyways, you ask a good question.
	You ask a good question.
	So what about um so supposedly there's an investigation, uh, Mayor, going on by the U.S. attorney's office in Utah that was appointed to look at all of those issues related to um uh Secretary Clinton.
	That's supposed to be ongoing, and you wouldn't necessarily know what's going on in that investigation.
	You did investigations like that.
	So you the public wouldn't know as it's going on.
	Well, I d I I mean that should be the case, but the reality is this is such a public thing.
	If this was a very active investigation, we would know it.
	And it's a source of great frustration that none of these things are being pursued with the enthusiasm that they should be pursued.
	All the things that uh that Greg Jarrett was talking about before, or John Solomon, these are things that normally a federal prosecutor jumps on.
	And um here here here they've been investigating for a year and a half, two years to find a crime to investigate, and they haven't found it yet.
	And here we have a bunch of alleged crimes, and they're not investigating them all, violating the Federal Records Act, violating the Privacy Act, uh obstruct obstructing justice, uh uh paying paying a foreign national to compile a false dossier on uh on Donald Trump, uh putting it in as a basis for a Pfizer wire, knowing the thing.
	How would you like to be the judge that that issued those that signed because they first couple of times they couldn't get the Pfizer warrant?
	They couldn't get the Pfizer.
	I think the judge should refer the whole thing for criminal prosecution.
	Maybe that'd fire under them.
	One of the things I've wondered, you know, as you look through all of this and you look at and I and I do think it's important to understand the context and the nature of what's taking place here.
	The the the investigation uh from its inception was fraught with conflict and corruption.
	I mean you and and every day it's something new.
	And these are not facts.
	Um, let's talk about facts that are not in dispute.
	It is not in dispute that Christopher Steele was the primary author with with uh fusion GPS of the the dossier, which James Comey said was salacious and unverified.
	We know that fact.
	So Christopher Steele.
	That's a fact.
	We know that the FBI ultimately fired Christopher Steele because he was leaking.
	Yet at the same time we also know as fact, undisputed, that Bruce Orr, the number four at the Justice Department at the time, wife, Nellie Orr, worked for Fusion GPS and was assigned to work with Christopher Steele on the dossier.
	This is the number four at the Justice Department spouse working for Christopher with uh Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele.
	Christopher Steele gets filed fired because of leaking, which seems to be the issue over there, and then you have conversations still going on with Bruce Orr and trying to get him back in.
	Bruce Orr, by the way, is still at the United States Department of Justice.
	Interesting.
	And I mean brought up the Strock and Page situation.
	Oh, this is begging for an investigation, a serious one.
	A grand jury investigation.
	Also, if Rosenstein is is appointing special counsel, independent counsel, uh, as he did uh basically being manipulated by Comey.
	Why the heck not appoint one here?
	Yeah, why not why I thought about that too?
	Yeah, I've raised that issue.
	All right, we're taking your calls.
	800 9417326 or 800-941 Sean.
	I'm Jay Secular here with Rudy Giuliani, Juliani and Seculo hosting the Sean Hannity show.
	Let's go to Staten Island.
	Scott, you're on the air.
	Hey, Jay.
	Yes, sir.
	Thank you.
	Hello, Mr. Mayor, big fan of yours.
	How are you?
	And I'm a fan of Staten Island.
	You know that you go.
	Yeah, well, trust me, we're a huge fan of yours, too.
	What's what's going on?
	Guys, what I I really uh I'm really concerned what's going on.
	Uh, you know, you have all these ultra-left wingers out there, and uh I just gotta know that after after this is over, uh, that you guys are really gonna drop the hammer on some of these people.
	I mean, Comey, uh uh Miller, um, all these other people, you know, and now you have uh Diane Feinstein out there employing a Chinese spy uh for the last twenty years.
	Uh you have all these only two decades.
	Right.
	And that that's all.
	I mean, you know, it wasn't that long.
	I mean, look, y you also have these people, the way they're speaking about the president and his family.
	I've never heard anything like it in my life.
	And and they're telling lies and lies and lies.
	But please tell me that after this garbage is done, I mean, obviously you can't tell me, obviously, I understand, but uh uh are people gonna get in trouble for this?
	Well, look, I mean, I I have some experience with uh uh government officials that have not done appropriate conduct, and that was Lois Lerner uh and the targeting that she engaged in at the IRS.
	I actually represented those conservative groups that challenged the IRS on this.
	Uh ultimately Lois Lerner took the Fifth Amendment.
	She had the right to do it uh rather than testifying, although she took it in a kind of a an unusual way.
	Uh she lost her position, did not lose her pension.
	Uh she was not uh criminally prosecuted, and we as private lawyers can't initiate we can't bring a criminal case.
	That's what the government uh does.
	Uh in that case, though, it did cause reform within the Internal Revenue Service, at least within the nonprofit uh world.
	Now, Rudy, you were involved in this because of I'll use the nine eleven example.
	We obviously had gaps and flaws in our intelligence gathering.
	You're part of the team that kind of re put it all back together again.
	So what does happen when you look at if you've got this, you know, fundamental problem within an agency here at the FBI and DOJ.
	What do you do?
	Well, I think if I were the attorney general, I would appoint an independent counsel.
	And I'd appoint the independent counsel for two purposes.
	Purpose number one, to appropriately prosecute the people who violated these uh these laws.
	Uh Comey clearly uh leaked a document that he wasn't supposed to leak, uh clear violation of the law.
	He committed perjury, uh about whether he was obstructed or not, or he felt he was obstructed.
	I could go on and on.
	So I'd have those things I the struct thing, the dossier, the paying for it, the lying to the court, all that should be investigated.
	But I'd also have the independent counsel do a report on how to clean this up so it doesn't happen in the future.
	That's what happened after Watergate.
	I I joined the Justice Department and I was the associate deputy attorney general for Judge Harold Tyler when he was the deputy to to Ed Levy.
	And we produced a document of how to reform the Justice Department.
	So it included rules like uh you can't communicate with the White House except through the White House counsel's office.
	So Justice Department just can't call up the White House and discuss a criminal case.
	Right.
	Uh we are in need of that kind of straightening out of the Justice Department now.
	You know you know how frustrated the President is with Understandably about the state of the just of his what he says.
	My Justice Department is doing this, my Justice Department is doing that.
	It needs thoroughgoing reform the way Ed Levy reformed it after Watergate because it was completely infected by Obama.
	Let's go ahead and take another call.
	And I I think take let's go to Las Vegas and Larry.
	Larry, go ahead.
	You're on the Sean Hannity show.
	Yes, gentlemen.
	Thank you for taking my call here.
	Appreciate it.
	Sure.
	I'm a retired law enforcement officer.
	I practiced uh my profession in Illinois and Nevada.
	Thank you for your service.
	It's very clear to me, sir.
	Uh, and I'm very familiar with how the patronage system works, and I know the mayor should be very familiar with this and running a big city.
	Obama protected Hillary, and we know that.
	There's things that's even mentioned in Kevin Klein's book, Guilty as Sin, where Comey was called in.
	So these are all directives given by the past president, Barack Obama.
	In everything that's come out uh revealed through Fox News and other entities and in a lot of books, is very clear.
	Obama should be charged.
	The Department of Justice is being lacking its responsibility right now to achieve they should be looking and investigating and charging Barack Obama with abuse of power.
	What do you think, Rudy?
	I don't want to jump.
	I don't think you could I would I would agree with you, it is crying out for an investigation.
	Uh there are a couple others where it is clear they violated the law.
	Comey, clear.
	Uh The dossier, clear.
	The people who paid for that dossier and then the people who included it in the Pfizer application, maybe the worst of all.
	But the whether how much did the president know and when did he know it?
	And that's a good question.
	It is worthy of investigation.
	But I think in fairness, we shouldn't jump to a conclusion.
	Yeah, I you know, look, I think here's the problem.
	This this idea that uh, you know, you you immediately go to an investigation of uh of a former president or a president.
	I think I listen, we're all I think that for Rudy, and certainly for me and Rudy, that the fact is we we're dealing with one right now.
	Uh and you these things should not be entered into lightly, and I think you've got to understand that's part of the process that we're going through in dealing with representation of the president and why this is you know, why we're in this discussions that we've had with uh with the special counsel's office and continue to have uh regarding where this ends.
	We want uh this to be over with soon.
	We think the country deserves it to be over with soon.
	Our position is uh clear that we do not think there's been any violation of any law, rules, or regulations, but we want to see this end, and this has been unprecedented cooperation uh at the highest levels, and uh I'm just gonna leave it at that.
	I'm gonna take another call though.
	Because uh someone is calling about a situation that uh mayor, I think really you could address, and that's Amy from Colorado, and she's concerned about Chicago.
	Amy, go ahead.
	You're on the Sean Hannity show.
	Yeah.
	Hi, gentlemen.
	It's an honor to speak to both of you.
	Um my question is for you, Mr. Mayor.
	I I've had a brother that lives in Chicago.
	Of course, I'm concerned about the situation there.
	Um, you know, all the deaths over the the past week, and they just don't seem to have their act together.
	What recommendations do you have to clean that city up?
	Well, let's let's just remind people there were seventy-two people shot over last weekend.
	72 people shot in a weekend over last weekend.
	Not a single person as of yesterday arrested, which is not unusual.
	They don't clear all but about one out of twenty shootings, which is totally impossible to understand.
	And uh the mayor, the mayor is finding all kinds of excuses other than let's reform, let's reform the situation and handle it.
	What would you do?
	I would I would immediately appoint a police commissioner who was going to put in a CompStat system that really works, which means measuring crime.
	I was gonna say let's just define that for the audience.
	When you say Compt, what do you mean?
	Compstat was invented by me, Bill Bratton, Jack Maple.
	One of the people who who clearly knows it well is Gary McCarthy, who's running for mayor of Chicago.
	He ran the system for us for four or five years.
	Um I don't want to get involved in the politics.
	Yeah, what did it what is that?
	It's a computers, the computer-based system, it it's very intricate.
	It measures crime every day.
	And it then it pin maps it, puts it on a map, tells you where the crimes are being committed, shows you where your gaps are, and then every day you readjust your policing to try to have the police in the right place at the right time.
	And then every week you have a CompStat meeting, which in which you go about two through about two or three hours of where you did it right, where you did it wrong, uh, who needs resources.
	What could be what is preventing them?
	Why would they not do it?
	Since the city of New York has been doing that since uh the first day of 1994, crime is down seventy two, seventy-three percent.
	Murder is down about seventy-eight percent.
	So what are they not doing it?
	Chicago three times the murders of New York.
	Well, why not do it?
	Why would they do it?
	Why wouldn't Rahm Emanuel do it?
	You have to ask Rama Manual.
	I mean, he's fiddling while Chicago burns.
	Uh Ram Emanuel is not a law enforcement guy.
	He doesn't understand it.
	His police department doesn't do a damn thing for him because he turns his back on them.
	Uh part of this is also your police department has to be willing to go the extra mile for you because you go the extra mile for them.
	You constantly you're constantly blaming them for things.
	You're making them worried about doing their jobs.
	They're just not going to do their jobs if they're ordinary cop.
	The hero cop will do it anyway.
	Is it part so it's part a policing issue, part is a structural issue?
	It's the policing issue, it's a morale issue.
	It's a uh it's a uh look, the communities want it now.
	I mean, he's he's having terrible problems.
	Yeah.
	Plus he made some comment on it's only in certain neighborhoods.
	You're darn right Romans in certain neighborhoods.
	That's the same.
	Because in the poor neighborhoods, it's in the black neighborhoods, and they're the people who are being slaughtered.
	And you're not doing a damn thing about it.
	All right, we're with the Rudy Giuliani.
	You got Giuliani and Seculo here, sub hosting or host not sub hosting, co-hosting.
	Co-hosting for sure.
	We're also gonna take your calls at 800, 941 7326 or 800 941 Sean.
	Also, I should say, if you want to follow us, you can do that at Rudy Giuliani or at J Seculo or ACLJ.org.
	We've got a lot more ahead on what I consider a very fun day.
	Being able to host the Sean Hannity Show.
	All right.
	We'll talk to you more in just a moment.
	Hey, welcome back to the Sean Hannity Show.
	Jay Seculo here, co-hosting with Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	We've got a lot more ahead, by the way, coming up, but it is great doing this with you.
	Well, I think uh we've clearly demonstrated and will demonstrate to the course of this show that this a lot of questions about this investigation.
	It surely looks like an illegitimate investigation.
	President of the United States said this a long time back that it's a witch hunt.
	And uh what well, you can describe it a lot of ways a hoax like uh like uh Greg's book, but you look at the questions they keep flowing out.
	Yep, and there's more information coming up.
	By the way, coming coming up, we've got uh some of my colleagues at the American Center for Law and Justice.
	We're gonna talk about Turkey.
	Talk about that uh issue involving Pastor Andrew Brunson.
	We've got a lot more ahead.
	We're having a lot of fun here on the Sean Hannity Show.
	We'll be back with more in just a moment.
	Everybody, welcome back to our two of the Sean Hannity Broadcast.
	This is Jay Sekulo.
	I am sitting in for Sean, and also joining me today is gonna be my good friend Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	You just heard from him.
	You're gonna hear from him some more.
	But I'm gonna tell you before we get back to Mayor Giuliani, and there's a lot of news going on, obviously.
	But there's one thing that um I have a a stake in, I will say, and that is uh of course I have a stake in most of the news these days.
	I was making a joke the other day that uh sometimes you're making the news, sometimes you're in the news, and sometimes you're just talking about the news.
	I will tell you these days I am uh doing both or all three.
	I am making the news, talking about the news, and it's been in the news.
	Uh having said that, uh, of course, not only am I uh counsel to the president of the United States as Mayor Giuliani is, I am also the chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice.
	And we have a case that is in the news.
	In fact, right now, it is a lead story on Drudge, and it's a uh a case, an issue that we've been talking about a lot.
	In fact, Sean has been talking about it as well, and that is the case of Andrew Brunson.
	He's an American Christian pastor.
	He's been in Turkey for 23 years.
	He was picked up after the coup in Turkey two years ago and was put in jail.
	Uh the charge against him was Christianization.
	That is actually in the indictment.
	We're gonna talk about that because the lead right now on Drudge Report, and this is true, is Turkey's economy on the brink.
	This could be the most expensive pastor in world history.
	The billion dollar pastor in one sense.
	I mean, it's hard to believe that Turkey is letting itself get to this point.
	I mean, this is supposed to be a NATO ally after all.
	Get to this point because they're so entrenched on keeping this pastor in Turkey.
	Now, I will say that some good news, and that has been released to home confinement, so that's certainly better than being in a Turkish jail.
	I am bringing in some of our experts at the American Center for Law and Justice to address this issue.
	Jordan Sekulo is our executive director.
	It's also my son.
	Andy Econom's a senior counsel for the ACLJ and is very involved in the issues uh involving the Middle East and Turkey.
	Harry Hutchison is our director of public policy.
	Jordan, let's go to the latest to start with you here from the standpoint of the pastors incarceration.
	We'll get into the economy in Turkey being impacted about this.
	But why don't you give everybody the latest report on where the case is because it changes literally on a daily basis?
	Right now he's on house arrest.
	Yes, that's a much better situation you you would to be in as an individual.
	You know, we've had these situations where people are coming right out of that prison environment back to reality and and uh outside of it.
	That that can be tougher.
	So he's remember this is his home, long-term home there.
	So while he's confined, uh, and so under house arrest, this is a familiar place.
	That being said, it's still confined.
	So he's still being detained by a NATO ally and and and by Turkey, by the government in this situation.
	The case has not been dropped.
	The the the uh the the mood and and I'd say that every day he's there now, the Turkish media, which is in these reports about the economy.
	It's nonstop.
	We're we're not so used to it here.
	It's become in the in the news more and more, so people are getting more familiar with Andrew Brunson's name.
	But for two years, he has been battered around the Turkish press to the point where it is not safe for him to be on the streets anymore.
	It's someone who lived there for twenty three years.
	Uh, that is the situation he is in.
	So every moment he has to stay in Turkey, even with the security he's got, uh, is is dangerous.
	Well, he's got eighteen uh Turkish uh security guards around his house right now.
	I mean, eighteen.
	I mean, just think about that, protecting him from an environment that the Turkish government, Erdogan, created.
	Now, again, I'm gonna go to Andy Economo, who's the senior counsel, has been very involved in this case.
	Andy, you you speak a lot of languages.
	You were able to translate the Turkish.
	This pastor's the charge against him is actually I mean, folks, this is the reality of what you're dealing with.
	Everybody, of course, uh, when they get arrested in these situations, they're a spy, it's espionage, they're a CIA agent.
	That's the allegations.
	But in this one, in addition to making you know what the basis upon that was?
	It's called Christianization.
	Andy, that is the actual charge in the indictment.
	Yes, that's exactly correct, Jay.
	What they're charging this pastor with is the Christianization of the Turkish Republic or the attempt to Christianize the Turkish people, and this is under ridiculous charge.
	It is no crime.
	The Turkish constitution provides at least uh publicly and for purposes of popular consumption, uh, freedom of religion and worship, but that's not the case for the for the minorities in Turkey.
	I'm Greek.
	I can tell you it's not the case for the Greek minorities in Turkey, and especially for the beleaguered ecumenical patriarch in Constantinople and Istanbul.
	That is not the case.
	And so what Pastor Brunson is being charged with is something that is not a crime, but has been concocted by the Erdogan regime.
	Erdogan being basically a dictator today in Turkey, and he is being charged with Christianization, a horrible thing to be charged with something that uh that is not, as I said, an a penal offense in Turkey.
	Let me go to Harry Hutchinson.
	He's their director of policy at the American Center for Law and Justice.
	Again, this is Jay Sekulama in for my great friend Sean Hennedy.
	They give him a day off.
	Linda gave him a day off.
	You do that often?
	Only when I absolutely have to.
	Yeah, see, there you go.
	You know what I did, Jay.
	What'd you do?
	I made him go to a wedding.
	There you go.
	Well, that's a good thing to be going to.
	It's good to have celebrations.
	So I'm glad he's having a good family time at a at a wedding.
	That's great.
	And I'm glad that I'm here also with uh my colleague, Rudy Giuliani.
	We're gonna get back into some of those news items, but I wanted to uh really cover this because look, this is a case where this is an American being held captain.
	Now, the president has been very aggressive about requesting and demanding, I would say requesting is not the right word, demanding this pastor's release.
	And he has put sanctions in place because of the way the Turkish government is acting.
	Harry Hutchinson's our director of policy at the ACLJ, he's also professor of law and economics.
	And uh, Harry, it is fair to say, Professor Hutchinson, that the sanctions that the president has put in place here are having a dramatic impact on the Turkish economy.
	In fact, on the Drudge Report, it says Turkey on an economic brink.
	You are absolutely correct.
	Turkey is edging closer and closer to a full-blown financial meltdown as President Trump has authorized a doubling of some tariffs on Turkish products.
	The Turkish currency plunged by 17% today, reaching another record low as stocks slid by as much as nine percent.
	Turkey is gripped by an economic contagion.
	In part, this is fueled by inflation and foreign debt.
	Most investment analysts are urging their clients to pull their assets out of Turkey immediately, as Turkey faces runaway inflation and unrestrained foreign debt.
	As the Turkish Lyra continues to fall in value, the value of foreign denominated debt rises, placing even more pressure on the Turkish government.
	You know, you look at the situation and you try to say to yourself, why in the world would Turkey suffer that they're put themselves in this kind of situation, the economic suffering that they're going through over this?
	And I'm gonna go right back to Jordan Sekiel on this.
	You look at the situation, as Harry just said.
	I mean, they're doing this for what?
	For a pastor to be kept in jail for a false charge?
	What we're seeing is a Turkish strong man who is not acting rationally more.
	And we've talked about how he has braced, embraced Islamic uh politics.
	And so so blending those two and kind of towed this line between somewhat radical, but still ISIS is an enemy.
	But then what's his statement on this ultimately about the fall of the economy?
	It's not economic or financial.
	It's invoking religion.
	So he says, quote, if they have their dollars, we have our people and our God.
	Now I point out two things.
	One, in in our country, uh, we we have our national motto, uh, in God We Trust and our Pledge of Allegiance, we have one nation under God.
	So I don't think, you know, that these statements alone, but we know what he's really saying there in Turkey.
	He is invoking a new kind of politics in Turkey.
	He's been doing it over years, and now even when it comes to finances, which ultimately these strong men are usually, that's their concern.
	But we've also talked about the idea that the new allies he's tried to make are never very good allies, the Russians, uh trying to work with Iran.
	They don't they don't bail you out if if they've got nothing in return.
	You know, in Syria, the Russians have a uh a warm water base.
	As long as they can keep that, uh, that's worthwhile for them to keep fighting.
	In Turkey, if the economy starts falling apart, they're not they're not gonna come in and save an Erdogan, who's still, by the way, government is it is a member of NATO, which the Russians can't stand.
	Yeah, this is the irony of all of this, of course, is that the Turks and the Russians have an ongoing feud.
	They're a NATO ally of the United States within the NATO partnership, and they're certainly not acting like it.
	It's become an Islamic regime.
	That's what it is.
	I mean, it's where it's gone, unfortunately.
	Uh, this is not the Turkey and the economy of Ataturk.
	No, this is not the Turkey of Ataturk, Jay.
	These men are simply Islamists wearing suits, coats, and ties.
	Uh, Adaturk uh wore a suit coat and a tie, but he tried to bring Turkey uh into the West and into the then 20th century.
	So um Erdogan needs to wake up.
	He needs to realize that he may have uh God, um, but it's a good idea to get a local financial advisor too.
	Yeah, and I don't think it's the guy that we're used to, and he certainly could use uh a financial advisor.
	So Harry, let me ask you this.
	You're professor of law and economics.
	What in the why would they put themselves in this situation over this pastor?
	Well, I think for political, ideological, and religious reasons.
	Uh, President Erdogan suffers, in my opinion, from illusions of grandeur.
	But President Trump is responding with maximum pressure, maximum economic pressure.
	Erdogan has responded with uh defiance.
	Meanwhile, his country and its people are suffering massively.
	This will lead, in my opinion, ultimately to a climb down by the Turkish leader.
	I think you're right.
	Jordan, really quickly here, as we get ready to go to a break in a minute, and this is important.
	We've handled these cases before with this Sudanese, we've handled them with the Iranians.
	You would have never thought that Turkey would be this difficult.
	You know, I mean, President Erdogan built himself palaces uh while you know, while the economy was on an upswing.
	You would think that's what he actually cared about.
	I mean, honestly, I mean that he would this strongman kind of leader would be more important to keep protect his palace.
	Uh at this point, though, you see he's embracing uh a radical uh Islamic message.
	We kept at kind of we've kept discussing this.
	How far is he gonna go with this this angle of using Islam uh to his political purposes?
	But I I'll tell you someone's been there in Turkey.
	I don't think that sells to to it to enough people there to keep him in power.
	And these guys, as we can see, they may have a lot of power, they may pull out these coups, these phony coups, whatever is happening there.
	But ultimately, if the economy falls the way it's falling and it continues to fall, and with President Trump's announcement today on the tariffs, uh they don't survive.
	And I mean, literally, they do not survive these kind of situations.
	They either end up in prison like Mohammed Morsi uh in Egypt, or or worse.
	Yeah.
	And I let me tell you this, folks.
	I spoke with the president as recently as uh yesterday on Pastor Brunson's case.
	And uh the president is serious.
	They're gonna return Andrew Brunson.
	That's what needs to happen here.
	It has to happen here.
	So we'll get more involved in that.
	We'll keep you posted.
	And by the way, I want to thank uh Sean because he's been covering this uh case for Pastor Brunson.
	It's hard to break into the news on these kind of cases when everything else is going on.
	But uh the folks here at Sean Hannity's broadcast have done that.
	We appreciate it.
	Hey, we're taking a break when we come back.
	We're gonna have more with uh my friend Rudy Giuliani.
	We're gonna talk about some of the other big news of the day.
	There's other news in the day today, by the way.
	In case you're new to this.
	And anyways, I'm Jay Sekulo, I'm the chief counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice.
	I'm also one of the president's lawyers, and I'm gonna be taking calls also with Rudy Giuliani.
	By the way, if you want to talk to us, it's 800-941-7326.
	That's 1800, 941726, or 800, 941 Sean.
	That's a pretty easy way to do it.
	Let me tell you this.
	We're gonna come back with a lot more.
	So stay tuned.
	We'll be back with more in just a moment.
	Welcome back to the Sean Hannity.
	I'm Jay Secular.
	Getting to be the host today with uh my friend Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	But we're talking about a major case that we're involved in at the American Center for Law and Justice, involving Pastor Andrew Brunson.
	We've got in our studio, as I say ours, because I have a broadcast too that airs, and that is uh Jordan Seculo, the executive director of the American Center for Law and Justice, Professor Harry Hutchison, a professor of law and economics, and our director of policy and senior counsel to the ACLJ, and that is Dr. Andrew Economel.
	Let me go right to Jordan here.
	We're talking about Pastor Andrew Brunson on home arrest right now, which is better than jail, but not quite home yet.
	I want to get I'm gonna ask one question.
	I want everybody to give me your thoughts.
	I'm gonna start with Jordan.
	What do you expect with the economic pressure on Turkey now?
	What do you expect to happen?
	Well, we know that Turkey is tying directly President Trump's uh tweet, which he did not do it in the in the tweet announcing the tariffs, uh, but they are in the media and and through the the government directly to to Pastor Andrew Brunson.
	You said earlier, the most expensive pastor in history uh to an economy falling apart, and is that going to uh uh again make it with the people of Turkey?
	I they are not that radicalized overall, and I think that they may have been okay with a strong man talking Turkish nationalism, but his full embrace of almost Islamic, this kind of modern Islamic radicalism, I would call it, is is not I I just does it sell to the people, and I think he's on the brink.
	He's the one on the brink uh uh of a real disaster for himself.
	So let me ask this to you, uh, Andy.
	Your sense, you've been to Turkey a lot, you know the region, you know the area.
	What do you think the next thing is here?
	I think uh Erdogan is gonna have to climb down.
	I mean, I've been to Istanbul several times.
	It's a Western city, essentially, a city of 17 million people.
	The interior of Turkey is very different.
	Uh, the ancient Cappadocia and medieval Cappadocia, the heart of the old Byzantine Empire is different.
	But the reality is that people are hungry, both in Istanbul and people are hungry in the middle part of Turkey, which means that they're not going to tolerate the inflation.
	They're not going to tolerate the economic hardships.
	And Erdogan is going to have to climb down, but you're going to have to give him some face-saving device.
	So, Harry, from an economic standpoint, the the impact on the Lyra, the impact on the economy already has been significant.
	What do you think happens next?
	Well, I think Jay, you're absolutely correct.
	The economy is cratering, the Lyra is plunging.
	Investors are fleeing, and sanctions and tariffs are working.
	So I think there will indeed be a climb down by the Turkish president, despite his current defiance.
	Uh ultimately he will have to answer to his people, and his people are hurting immensely.
	I think that's the reality.
	I appreciate uh everybody's opinions on that.
	Let me again say a huge thank you to uh Sean and the whole team here at the Sean Hannity show for covering this story.
	And I think, look, I think we're gonna get this pastor home to the United States very, very soon.
	Uh I can't give you day.
	I know I'm not good at predicting dates, especially in these kind of cases.
	You can't because there's so many ups and downs.
	But uh look, I still think with all this going on, at the end of the day, we're gonna get there.
	Uh which is gonna take it may take a week, it may take a month, but we're gonna get there.
	Anyways, we've got a lot more to discuss.
	We'll be taking calls as well at 1800-941-7326.
	That's 800-941 Sean.
	My co-host will be back with me in just moments.
	That is Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who's also my co-counsel representing the president of the United States.
	We have some news we'll talk about there.
	You may have heard some things, a couple of things, just a few things.
	So we'll get to those when we come back from the break.
	Stay tuned.
	Let not your heart be troubled.
	Join Sean's Army on Twitter where we get back to conservative values.
	Hey, welcome back to the Sean Hannity program, everybody.
	I'm Jay Seculo, co-hosting with my good friend, the former mayor of the great city of New York, Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	But for today's purposes, more importantly, I will say, former U.S. attorney, former senior member of the DeMar United States Department of Justice, and my colleague and co-counsel in a fairly Important case, a very important case that's going on right now.
	And he is our co-host today, and we're both co-hosting for Sean.
	Mayor, I want to talk to you uh about uh an issue that you and I are dealing with, and I'll we'll start this and let you uh pontificate some here because I think this is important.
	We have you and I have handled a lot of media over the last couple of days on the issue of what everybody wants to talk about.
	And by the way, if you want to talk about it, you can call us at 800 941-7326 or 800-941.
	And that is the issue of a presidential interview.
	And there's a lot of issues that go into that, uh, Rudy, and a lot of discussion that takes place, but a lot of legal analysis.
	Let's kind of get everybody up to speed on where we are.
	So there are two things to have to deal with, as you know, Jay, because we deal with it every day.
	One is just the normal representation of a person who is in some way under investigation, although they're very fudgy about what it's about.
	So far, no crime suggested.
	Uh, and he has rights and they have to be protected.
	Second, he's the president of the United States.
	So he has prerogatives that have to be protected, not just for him, but for future presidents.
	So it's very, very complicated.
	And we also have a client who wants to be heard.
	Yep.
	He he has felt from the very beginning, and he's right, he's done nothing wrong, that he should be able to tell his story, and they should believe him.
	On the other hand, he also knows that he doesn't exactly have an unbiased group of people.
	They have indicated uh to us, even in our discussions, a preference for Comey, uh, a preference for some of these other people.
	The whole root of the investigation is corrupt.
	The the the going back to the dossier and uh struck people who hate him, a counterintelligence investigation that I can't figure out how they ever did it, pfle wires that somebody should get prosecuted for perjury and getting them.
	Uh all that taints the investigation.
	So we have a lot to consider.
	You know, I said from the outset that the the corruption started this investigation, actually.
	If you look at the the the just the beginning of the investigation, the inception of the investigation, the corruption ran very deep, and then it uh continued to permeate.
	And if you start just go through the what I call the parade of horribles, I mean, just look at the issues.
	This is what I we you know, you and I keep calling this an irregular investigation.
	Well, it and that's being kind, actually.
	That's that's being that's being courteous.
	Because look at the irregularity.
	It starts with the dossier that even James Comey admits is salacious and unverified.
	We now find out that the author of that was Christopher Steele, who just happened to be hired by Fusion GPS, who happened to be hired by the Clinton campaign, who was working with Bruce Orr, the number four at the United States Department of Justice wife, Nellie Orr, she was working for Fusion GPS and just happened to be working on the putting together the dossier.
	Now, okay, you could not make that up, except then it gets better.
	And that is you have the lead investigator and the conversations he had with Lisa Page, and you got the whole Strzok Page incident.
	Then you got the insurance policy with Andy McCain.
	We must get in.
	What's the insurance policy?
	Now, a lot of the people that were at the FBI are now gone that were involved in this.
	But the truth is that Peter Strack, the agent, uh, Rudy, was the lead investigator for the special counsel's office.
	And I keep talking about what happened to that evidence that they gathered, even though he was, you know, they'll say, well, he was subsequently fired.
	True.
	But what happened to that evidence that he gathered during that year and a half he was on the investigation because he predates the actual Mueller appointment.
	And we talk about in the law, the fruit of the poisonous tree, but it's it's serious.
	When you you can't even the irregularities here are so in-depth, it's it's really hard to put your your head around it.
	I would describe this as an investigation born in corruption.
	It a corrupt dossier that is crying out for a real investigation.
	If you're talking about collusion to effect an investigation, paying a foreigner, as Hillary did, to produce a false dossier on Donald Trump is so far the biggest crime that's been committed with regard to the election.
	That is provable.
	And then that dossier is used as the basis for the wiretaps, the FISA wires.
	And then when they know it's false, they don't correct it.
	They go back to the judge and they keep repeating it.
	Now, some judge has got to be going out of his mind, even worse than Judge Ellis, because that judge was made a fool of.
	And the Pfizer process was completely made a mockery of by this false uh dossier.
	So it it spawns an investigation.
	The investigation produces no evidence of anything involving President Trump and Russians.
	And somehow Comey comes along and makes it into a criminal investigation.
	And now we know that the criminal investigation itself, of course, we also have to put in there that uh James Comey said that he created this memo after his meeting with the president, leaked it to the press for the sole appointment of getting a special counsel, which was miraculously appointed.
	Now, could you imagine, and you were a U.S. attorney, uh, Rudy, and you were also a high-ranking Justice Department official.
	I worked for Treasury in the beginning of my legal career.
	Could you imagine if an IRS agent or an FBI agent were to release their 302 form uh to the press?
	What would happen to those agents?
	Well, those who have have been have been indicted and and and prosecuted and convicted.
	Uh it's a it's a crime uh to uh to do it.
	And uh in this particular case, it wasn't accidental.
	This was a planned, completely thought-out, corrupt scheme on the part of Comey.
	So it didn't come from him, it came from this professor.
	I mean, imagine the skullduggery of this man.
	He and and then he wants us to believe that the memo is accurate uh about the Flynn conversation.
	He he wants us to believe that at the time of the Flynn conversation, he felt that he was being obstructed.
	However, he never told anybody about it, he never reported it.
	If he didn't report it, it's Miss Prison of a felony, because as a FBI director, he had a report it.
	He then all he testifies under oath after it and before he releases the memo that he had not been obstructed in any way.
	You can have Jared on later, Greg Jarrett, he says it's not happened in my experience under oath.
	Right.
	He's now contradicting that.
	In other words, he lied under oath.
	So they want this guy to be the the arbiter of truth, and they're not investigating him for his crimes.
	I mean, this is really corrupt.
	Now, supposedly there's an office uh sessions, yeah.
	Well, there's the inspector general's report that uh is supposedly coming involving James Comey.
	We haven't seen it yet.
	Then I'm hearing and you're hearing the same things we're hearing with September, October.
	So that may come out.
	We'll see.
	Uh the last one was pretty tough on Andrew McCabe.
	Uh interestingly, he's no longer with the Department of Justice.
	James Comey's no longer with the Department of Justice.
	Uh Rabicki's no longer with the Department of Justice.
	So Comey wants us to believe.
	Yeah, I mean, you get that there's been quite quite a little, Lisa Page, all gone.
	Yeah.
	Comey wants us to believe that Trump had this conversation with him about Flynn, that he felt that it was an obstruction of justice, a serious federal felony, but he never reported it, never told McCabe about it, because McCabe also testified that there was no obstruction, as he did, and that he testified falsely under oath.
	I mean, he he can't he can't be obstructed three months later.
	He can't remember the conversation three months later and say, Oh my God, he tried to obstruct me.
	I mean, this is so phony.
	If it weren't for the fact that the president has these CNN and MSNBC and all these people that are just dying to interpret everything against him, people would be demanding an investigation to Comey.
	You know, it's interesting because if you look at this gun we're gonna talk with uh you mentioned Greg Jarrett, our friend Greg Jarrett's got a great book out, by the way, the Russian hoax.
	You everybody needs to be reading this a great, great book.
	Um I'm underlining it.
	I bet you are.
	And you're not reporting and I got an early copy.
	So we all have.
	Uh let me say that we're gonna get into that with Greg.
	Uh, I want to talk about a lot of that because it's important.
	But you know, people need to understand also that we are trying to handle, and you understand this.
	You you've got competing interests when when you talk about an interview.
	So the the question of the day is the interview of the president.
	Will the president submit to an interview?
	And I want to be very clear on this.
	We have raised and have have raised this really since the beginning uh of my representation, which is going back over a year now, that there are significant Article II issues.
	I mean, really significant Article II issues.
	Do you think a U.S. attorney, for instance, should be able to subpoena a president of the United States to discuss the reason why he made a policy move or a decision to fire a subordinate?
	And if that's the case, well then why couldn't every U.S. Attorney in every district who has a beef with a particular president start issuing subpoenas.
	And that the president instead of running the government ends up responding to subpoenas.
	That's not the way it's supposed to be.
	Our founders knew that, and that's why they have political process in there.
	It's not a legal process.
	There's not gonna be a trial here.
	But people have to understand that we have to go through a real process of analysis in coming to these conclusions, Rudy, about whether what our recommendation is we regarding an interview.
	Obviously, when the special counsel sent us the last proposal, obviously we didn't accept it.
	So we counter.
	We're not going to get into the contents of that counter, that wouldn't be appropriate.
	But um there's a lot of factors that go into this.
	There are a lot of factors go into it, and uh uh not the least of which is you have to evaluate the good faith of the people who are seeking to question him.
	Do you really have a chance of persuading them?
	Or have they made up their minds already and they're just trying to set him up?
	A great example, we talk about Flynn is Flynn.
	The President of the United States says he never had that conversation with Comey.
	Comey says that he did.
	You you know both of us would be perfectly comfortable if he had had the conversation.
	Right.
	He said nothing wrong.
	He didn't say you must drop the case, which you could do.
	He said you should think about it.
	You should give him a break, which many people have said to me when I was a prosecutor.
	We know Comey didn't think of it as obstruction, because he would have reported it.
	So we'd have a very good defense on the facts.
	But the fact is the president insists I never had that conversation.
	So now we put him, we put him in front of we put him in front of Mueller.
	Mueller asked him that question.
	He says, No, I didn't have the conversation.
	And then they say, Oh, we believe the liar Comey.
	Now, here we're almost at a disadvantage because there's no trial.
	They'd never charge him in an indictment with it because Comey couldn't withstand cross-examination.
	Absolutely correct.
	He gave a private a prior statement under oath, contrary to that.
	All right, we're gonna be back with a lot more.
	I'm Jay Seculo in with Rudy Giuliani.
	We are hosting for Sean Hannity.
	He's taking a break for one day.
	They gave him a day off.
	Linda gave him a day mission.
	Yeah, we do.
	We're gonna take calls also at 800-941-7326.
	That's 800 941.
	And there is a lot to talk about as we discuss, not just the issues of what's facing the country and the president.
	We're gonna talk a little bit when we come back about uh some strategy.
	Sometimes it's important to deal with strategy, and let me tell you something.
	The mayor and I are doing a lot of strategizing, a lot of strategy.
	Right.
	Yeah, no, a lot of President Bush is.
	Yes, just to reflect on another president.
	Because look, uh I mean again, as we've been talking to you, there's a lot to that lot goes into a decision about allowing a president to be interviewed.
	And we're gonna talk more about that, and we'll get to a lot of your questions and comments as well.
	We joined by a lot of great guests, great book by Greg Jarrett.
	We'll be back with more on the Sean Hannity show in just a moment.
	Welcome back to the Sean Hannity Show.
	I'm Jay Seculow, Chief Council of the American Center for Law and Justice, Counsel for the President of the United States.
	With me co-hosting is Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
	More important, former U.S. attorney Rudy Giuliani and senior Justice Department official.
	There's something that Rudy, and we've got a lot more coming up on the thing.
	But there's something we want to get to.
	And I I think it's important for people to understand this as the decisions are made uh on interviews or not.
	We've we've told you what our inclination is, and that is, you know, we don't think they've met the at this point, the threshold at all.
	And I think constitutionally they don't have the right to interview in the first place.
	There are a lot of other factors that go into this.
	But there's something that we do need to get very clear, Rudy.
	I think what we have to get clear is the fact that a lot of people interpret it this way.
	Well, if he's telling the truth, why wouldn't he just go in and testify?
	Hey, welcome to the real world.
	The fact is he is telling the truth.
	He has done nothing wrong.
	All these months and months, all these people going after him, they haven't suggested one thing he did wrong.
	Not a single thing.
	No crime, no unethical conduct.
	The reason we have to worry about it is one, we're giving away prerogatives of the president.
	And the president's and the president and his and his own counsel have to be heard on that.
	Yep.
	Second, we're walking him into a possible perjury trap, not because he isn't telling the truth, but because somebody else isn't telling the truth who they would credit, namely Comey.
	So if he says, I never had the conversation with Flynn, and they elect to believe Comey, they can write down we believe he committed perjury.
	And now we have walked him into that.
	Even though it's one person's word against another person's Word and one's got a memo and one said that didn't happen.
	Here's the here's the problem with all let's be just blunt.
	Here's the problem with all this.
	Why would you do this?
	Why would you submit any client, let alone the president of the United States, to this kind of situation?
	But when you add to it, the presidency of the United States, and it's not just by the way, about this president.
	It's about future presidents.
	Because what we decide and what we recommend to President Trump impacts future presidencies.
	Absolutely right.
	And that's and that's where the Article II and the Constitution are so critical here.
	And I don't think we can ignore that for one single moment.
	I I think we do that at our own peril.
	I think that's right.
	And and and if if we have to contest it and fight it, uh we have a good chance of winning it.
	I believe so.
	And vindicating the presidency.
	The reality is, I will say this over and over again.
	If this were just simply, can he go in and tell the truth?
	Of course he can.
	He's got nothing to hide.
	We have stipulated with them.
	We are willing to stipulate with them what he's going to say.
	They know what he's going to say.
	Well, we produced millions of pages of documents, 32 witnesses.
	It's been the most transparent uh inquiry in uh of this type when involving the office of the presidency in in history.
	No one's done it like this.
	Having said that, there are also threshold constitutional standards that have not been met in our view at this point, and that certainly raise not only serious legal arguments, but I think puts the onus, not on us, quite frankly.
	Uh, and I don't believe a court.
	I hope we don't have to go that route.
	We might not have to.
	If we do, we do.
	Uh I don't think the Supreme Court of the United States would say the president could be compelled to testify with regard to actions he took within his constitutional authority.
	That would set a horrible precedent.
	Back with more in a moment.
	Hey, welcome back to the broadcast, everyone.
	Jay Seculo and Mayor Rudy Giuliani in for Sean Hannity.
	And we are joined right now by someone that knows a little bit about the topic we've been discussing, among many other things, but especially about this one, and that is our friend Fox News phenomenal legal analyst, Greg Jarrett, who's got a great book out, by the way.
	And I we talk about a must-read, The Russian hoax.
	Book's done pretty well there, Greg.
	Number one on the New York Times bestseller list for two weeks in a row so far.
	Must killed him.
	Yeah.
	The Times.
	You know, it's got to give him a high rate fever.
	You know, there at the times.
	So, you know, you know the issues we're facing right now as a lawyer, of course.
	And you know, and and people are saying, why can't you just say no, we're not going to do it?
	And look, there's there's there's process in this, and there's considerations you have as the well, one of the reasons is you got a client that says he wants to do it.
	Right.
	And and you know, so ultimately, you know, I I said this to our friend Sean Hannon.
	He said, Well, why can't you just say no?
	I said, Well, I if I say no and Rudy says no, that's great.
	But the client has to agree.
	It's the way it works.
	But you laid out the case very strongly in your book about the Russian hoax.
	Let's give the top line on that.
	Kind of what do you see as the if you were going to let name the top four of the what I call the parade of horribles here, what would you say?
	Well, I would say that once people read the book, they will be absolutely convinced that top officials that the Department of Justice and uh the FBI abuse their positions of power to subvert the rule of law and undermine the democratic process.
	They cleared Hillary Clinton, even though they knew that there was overwhelming, compelling evidence of her criminality.
	Comey wrote it down not once, but twice.
	And then had his confederates, uh Lisa Page and Peter Strzok sit down at Strzok's computer and expunge the language that was so incriminating.
	And on the very day that Comey stands in front of television cameras announcing that he's absolving Hillary Clinton because no reasonable prosecutor would bring the case, which was preposterous.
	Americans didn't know what was happening that moment.
	In a building in London, Comey's FBI is meeting with Christopher Steele.
	I think on the FBI payroll, Hillary Clinton payroll.
	He composed the totally fabricated dossier, the anti-trust alleging collusion that Putin and Trump had been colluding for five to eight years before the 2016 election.
	It was utterly preposterous.
	You know, Greg raises uh Mayor, the issue here, because I think this is a one that sometimes gets lost in this process.
	When when when the former FBI director, then the FBI director, James Comey, makes the statement, the grand pronouncement that no reasonable prosecutor would move forward on a prosecution.
	First of all, he was the director of the FBI.
	That's the thing.
	No FBI director in my memory has ever given a press conference and described the facts of a case in Which he's declining prosecution, and he doesn't get to decline prosecution.
	No.
	I did when I was U.S. attorney, not him.
	I would have gone totally nuts if he did it to me when I was uh U.S. attorney.
	And it's the reason he got.
	He was usurping the power, as you point out, Mayor, of the Attorney General.
	But when I read your book, Greg, I come away with the following.
	They're investigating in one way or another, the President of the United States now for two years, without a single suggestion that he committed any crime.
	That's right.
	We don't know what the crime is.
	This is an investigation in search of a crime.
	On the other hand, we have all these uh possible crimes committed by by Comey, uh leaking uh the m the memo, lying under oath about not being obstructed, or lying later about feeling he was obstructed.
	This prison of felony, the dossier in which the it is clearly untrue, and they go ahead and have three p Pfizer applications in which they don't explain to the judge that it's untrue or that it's a problem.
	Why isn't this being investigated?
	It should be.
	I mean, this is you know, sort of Alice through the looking glass, everything's backwards and upside down.
	Uh you know, just look at the dossier as you point out a moment ago.
	By Comey and others.
	Uh they used a false document.
	They knew it was false, they deceived the judges, they concealed evidence in the case.
	That is a fraud on the court, as you know.
	I would like to be that Pfizer judge.
	Oh, I'd be angry as can be.
	And they pulled that on him.
	Because it it is the biggest felony is abuse of power, deprivation of rights under color of law.
	You cannot use your position in government to deprive somebody, Carter Page and President Trump, of their constitutional rights.
	It's also perjury.
	I mean, they signed a document uh vouching for its authenticity and veracity when they knew it was a lie.
	Why wouldn't Sessions or Rosenstein why wouldn't they start an investigation of this?
	What is stopping them?
	What it all it almost seems like, you know, here here there's there are cr they can actually write a subpoena and mention crimes, site crimes.
	Well, they've say they'll say they got this UI they they they went to a U.S. attorney in Utah that's gonna be looking at all of this.
	That was kind of their that's their way to handle it.
	Go ahead, Greg.
	Yeah, I mean, and I I don't have much trust in that.
	I don't know how you do an investigation in Utah of uh people and activities that took place in Washington, D.C. But nevertheless, uh you know, I think Jeff Sessions, who is a very nice man, has been the most feckless attorney general in my lifetime.
	I you know, I don't think he's in charge.
	I think he's in a back room playing with Legos or something.
	The guy who's really uh the attorney general is Rod Rosenstein, and he has every reason to continue to obstruct Congress, hide documents, and cover it up because he's part of the wrongdoing.
	He signed the fourth uh FISA, the third renewal of the FISA document, knowing that he didn't have new evidence and the law requires new evidence, and he also knew that it was fabricated.
	Well, uh he also produced a memorandum recommending the termination of James Comey.
	Right.
	Talk about conflicts of interest.
	The the the federal regulations, not to mention ethical rules that govern lawyers say you cannot be a prosecutor and a witness in the same case.
	The actual rules seem to be a lot.
	Let's say they get a little murky when it's involving this.
	The actual basis for the independent counsel is that memo of of Comey's and the idea that Comey was fired as as an obstruction of the investigation.
	That's right.
	The best witness against that is Rothenstein, who gave the president advice to counsel that he should do it.
	But here's the here's the thing with the putting all of that aside.
	So if the president of the United States decided he's gonna fire the FBI director, what in the Constitution says he can't do that?
	In fact, the Constitution says the opposite of the United States.
	Both clauses allow him to fire a political appointee who's head of a branch of the executive branch of government, a department or agency.
	This is all within the article uh the Article II of the Constitution.
	That's right.
	And so Mueller has no legal basis as an inferior officer to question the president of the United States about exercising his constitutional authority.
	So that, as you guys have pointed out, should be off the table.
	Trevor Burrus, Jr.
	Isn't R Rosenstein a a necessary witness?
	He's been interviewed by Mueller to the firing of Comey since he recommended the firing of Comey.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	He's a key witness.
	And he's actually been interviewed by his underling.
	Muller has interviewed his own boss, which is Rod Rosenstein.
	That is, but don't worry, they also want to interview, you know, the President of the United States.
	Yeah.
	The who's the ultimate boss under Article Two of the Constitution.
	And and that goes to the the second part of this, which is obviously we're we're going through a process here.
	And if you look at this, by the way, historically, this is the process lawyers go through when you when you're talking about interviewing a president.
	You know what?
	Rudy and I have been pretty clear on where our inclinations are on all this.
	Ultimately the president's gonna make a decision based on legal advice, and they've got a bar that I don't think they've met.
	Having said that, again, you look at it as a lawyer that's been practicing law a long time.
	38 years.
	Okay, me for you.
	Forty per me.
	You don't want to know how long I've been practicing law.
	I don't remember.
	I'm 39 years old.
	I was back in Lincoln's era.
	I didn't even go to law school.
	You read the apprentice, I've never read the law.
	So if you were in our shoes, Greg, how would you handle it?
	Well, obstruction questions are completely off the table.
	As for collusion, I don't understand how uh Mueller has the right to question the president uh about a non-crime.
	As I pointed out repeatedly, collusion is only a crime in antitrust law.
	It is nowhere else in the criminal codes.
	Now other people have said, well, it's conspiracy to defraud the government.
	No, it's not.
	That report is a very important thing to do.
	Well, and it requires the Supreme Court says deceit craft trickery and dishonesty.
	So sitting, for example, in a Trump tower and listening to a Russian lawyer provide information that in the end she never provided.
	How is that dishonest?
	Which is, of course, no, and you know, Nancy Pelosi hauled off and said, Well, it's a clear violation of campaign laws.
	No, it's not.
	She never read the Federal Campaign Election Act, which allows a foreign national to volunteer services, including information to a political campaign, and information by itself is not a thing of value.
	Because I actually argued Title III of McCain Feyngold before the Supreme Court of the United States.
	And that involved a lot of this, these issues of money and campaigns and how that worked.
	And mine, I actually got the provision that I was responsible for Title III, struck as unconstitutional, nine to zero.
	You gotta look at what the law actually says, not what you wish it would say or what you hope it would say if you're trying to, you know, go after some.
	What does it actually say?
	And what is Supreme Court precedent say, and it just does not support the interpretations that some in the media have gone with are just incorrect legally based on the statute and certainly based on the Constitution.
	But it serves the media's anti-Trump narrative.
	Their hatred for Trump is so conspicuous every day in their coverage of this case.
	Their unabashed scorn and visceral hatred for the president is reflected in the bias within their stories.
	Not only how they tell the stories, but the stories they choose to tell.
	I I heard uh uh a media individual say, oh, I know what it is.
	It's honest services fraud.
	That individual never read the Supreme Court decision, Skilling versus the United States, and said there has to be a bribe or a kickback.
	Yeah, because the government had gone too far in making honest services uh uh just a catch-all everything.
	I mean, the whole, I mean, what are they gonna try these novel and bizarre theories of campaign finance and obstruction?
	And you're gonna just determine you're gonna do the test case and have the test case on the president of the United States.
	I don't first of all, there will be no case.
	I keep saying that because that's not how this goes.
	President can't have a case.
	That's not the way it works under our system.
	That's not the way the Department of Justice works.
	But the media and Democrats, and I realize that's redundant, um, they insinuate a crime by using a word that connotes a crime, which is the word collusion.
	And it just sounds so in a firm.
	It does.
	You know, in fact, in my book, I quote a an interview, Jay, that you did with George Stephanopoulos, in which you kept saying to him, but where is it in the criminal codes?
	And he said, Oh, collusion is conspiracy, or something to that effect.
	Without ever answering your legitimate question, is wait a minute.
	What rule, law, or regulation has been violated here that you're colluding with.
	Even conspiracy is not a crime.
	It's got to be a conspiracy to commit a crime.
	Right.
	We conspire every day to have lunch or breakfast or whatever.
	That's not a crime.
	No, but I'll tell you what's something everybody needs.
	Your book.
	Well, thank you.
	It's very helpful.
	It really is.
	We've got a lot more coming ahead on this.
	Uh, and by the way, the Russia Hoax, uh, it is a great book by Greg Jarrett, and it's uh great to be in the studio here with Greg, actually in the same room, uh, not just on a TV camera remote.
	So if you're interested in that.
	All right, we're gonna Take calls.
	We've got a lot more to discuss on the Sean Hannity show.
	Now that Uncle Joe has left the building, maybe we can get back to bringing jobs home.
	That's Jobs.
	J-O-B-S.
	This is the Sean Hannity Show.
	Welcome back to the Sean Hannity Show.
	This is Jay Sekulo and Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former U.S. attorney, former senior Justice Department official, in with the author, New York Times best-selling author, number one best-selling author.
	I want to be very clear here, Greg Jarrett.
	Thank you.
	The book is the Russian hoax.
	I want to go right to Greg on this, and then uh Mayor, you should comment too.
	And that is we're in this now, you know, the so-called investigation has been going on now really for almost two years.
	I mean, if you look at just the kind of the time frame, though we've had the special counsel's been a little bit over a year and what about a year and three months, 15 months.
	How do you what do you think the public appetite for this is these days, really, in the body politic?
	Well, just judging from the sales of my book, I'd say, you know, it's very topical and people are talking about it.
	Um, I even if I hadn't written the book, it it is still probably the most talked-about news story in America.
	It is day in, day out, 24 hours a day.
	And you know, frankly, every day brings new revelations uh of evidence of wrongdoing and corruption on the part of the investigators.
	These are the law enforcers who became themselves the lawbreakers.
	You know, we got into the Bruce Orr situation in great detail.
	I'm sure we'll do it.
	I think when when the when the history of this is finally written, uh this the fact that they took so long is gonna hurt them.
	Because if they had if they had written their report three months ago, which they could have done, we'd have written our report, and we'd be waiting to see if Congress is gonna do anything.
	Right.
	But the revelations since I got involved with Jay.
	First of all, you have the Horowitz report, you have Peter Struck.
	Sure.
	Now you have the whole d resource.
	Dossier thing, Bruce Orr.
	Uh who knows what's next.
	I mean, you don't know what's next.
	I mean, that's all unraveling.
	And and the American public, I just looked at the polls yesterday.
	The longer this goes on, the more negative the opinions are of Bob Mueller and his team of partisans.
	Twenty-two-point swing in three months.
	Right.
	From from trusting Mueller to not uh not trusting Trump, trusting Trump.
	And and because they're finally getting the message that this is not only a team of partisans, uh, but it was politically motivated.
	You know, Mueller had three different conflicts of interest.
	Rosenstein had one glaring conflict of interest.
	Together they put together a team of partisans.
	They sabotage the integrity and credibility of their own investigation.
	And as you point out, Mayor, the longer it goes on, the more Americans are wising up to what really happened.
	It was a hoax.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It it hoax it started as a hoax, and it just gets worse and worse and worse.
	And the misconduct keeps coming out.
	Well, it's breathtaking in scope.
	I mean, it from the beginning of this inquiry to today, and then we and we still are I mean, every single day it seems like there's more and more.
	You know, I point out of the book uh that the FBI, when they launched its investigation of Trump and collusion, they violated their own FBI guidelines known as you guys know the dialogue.
	You've got to have uh articulable facts in support of probable cause.
	They didn't have that.
	That's absolutely right.
	The book is the Russian hoax.
	The author is Greg Jarrett.
	He is our friend, a fellow lawyer, great legal analyst for Fox News.
	Greg, thanks for being with us.
	My pleasure.
	Thank you.
	We'll be back with more.
	Read the book.
	Read the book.
	We'll be back with more in a minute.
	Hi, everybody.
	Welcome back to the broadcast.
	It's Jay Seculo and Mayor Rudy Giuliani sitting in for our friend Sean Hannity.
	It's great to be uh co-hosting with my colleague.
	I get to say collie.
	I've known Rudy, we've known each other a long time, but we are working uh we've worked on a number of cases, but this I would say is the biggest.
	This is uh representative of the president of the United States.
	I tried to help you with Pastor Brunson a year ago, a year and a half a year.
	Yes, you did, and that is willing.
	Yep.
	I hope so.
	God willing will be out soon.
	Uh I will tell you, we're gonna talk uh a little bit more about that actually.
	Um uh in days ahead.
	I am hopeful, and I look I'll trace a little bit of that since you said it.
	We will do it, and just let's spend a minute and then we'll get John Solomon on from the hill.
	He's got some good news here for us.
	Uh interesting story.
	Uh on the Pastor Brunson matter, I I will tell you this.
	This is uh Christian pastor who's been in jail now for he was in jail for um uh almost uh eighteen months, almost twenty I think twenty months actually, and then has been on house arrest, but we tried to get him released last year.
	It did not, we got close, but uh now Turkey's feeling some real pressure.
	What's your quick thoughts on that?
	I think the pastor is at home arrest right now.
	I think we're the president is committed to getting him home.
	I believe uh given what's going on with their economy, it's they're gonna crack.
	They're gonna have to crack.
	And the reality is, you know, it's a completely contrived case.
	Yep.
	He didn't do anything wrong except preach Christianity.
	Yep.
	In a tasteful, decent way.
	Well, look, I know Mike Mompeo, uh, the vice president, especially the president, are working diligently on this.
	It's uh look, the Turkish situation right now, their economy is hurting and they're hurting because they're keeping Americans held hostage, and that's not what you're supposed to do.
	Let's go back to a domestic matter.
	Uh John Solomon, our friend from the Hill is on.
	And John, you broke a story yesterday.
	We've talked a little bit about this already in this whole Bruce Orr situation.
	He was the number four ranking official at the Justice Department.
	But you broke some new news.
	Of course, he was working with Christopher Steele.
	Let's retrace that for some folks for the folks here.
	I think it's important to understand this was the number four in the Justice Department.
	His wife was working for Fusion GPS, who had been working with Christopher Seele to put the dossier together.
	Take it from there.
	That sounds great.
	I'll take you to the uh exact date and time where we need to be.
	It's December, middle of December of twenty sixteen, a month after the president has won the election.
	Democrats are still mourning.
	Uh Pete Stroke and Lisa Page are probably uh still in shock at the FBI because they're planning to stop President Trump didn't work.
	And um the FBI has formerly fired Christopher Steele, the British MI6 intelligence agent paid by the DNC, paid by Hillary Clinton's campaign to dig up dirt on the president.
	He's been fired for misconduct because he spoke to the media in the final days of the election.
	As you all know, that's a an illegality or uh uh uh not allowed for a human intelligence source.
	So he's fired, and yet Pete Stroke has no way to get and his Pete Stroke has no way to get the information from Christopher Steele anymore.
	So they create an end run here.
	They get um uh Bruce Orr, the number four uh uh uh uh Justice Department official, and somebody who, by the way, is not in the chain of command on the intelligence uh investigation.
	What was his position, John?
	What was Orr's position?
	Associate Deputy Attorney General.
	Yep.
	Yeah, good question, Mr. Mayor.
	So he is the top deputy, the Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, a woman who signed one of those FISA warrants, by the way.
	And uh he is you know, counterintelligence investigations are supposed to be left to counterintelligence pros, people who do it for a living.
	So you can detect deception, you can detect efforts to deceive and and and uh that doesn't happen.
	So as Christopher Steele starts meeting with um uh Bruce Orr, and that information's flowing in.
	But at this moment, uh Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS, the man who uh the Clinton campaign paid directly, the DNC paid directly, and then he hired Christopher Seale to do the dirt digging.
	And by the way, Glenn Simpson is the boss of Nelly Orr, Bruce Orr's wife, because he had hired Nellie Orr to work on the Trump dossier.
	Uh they're meeting.
	They're meeting in a coffee shop in Washington, DC, and they're having this extraordinary conversation.
	First off, a uh thumb drive, a memory stick is handed to Bruce Orr according to these handwritten notes of the meeting, and it has all of Glenn Simpson's latest dirt on President Trump, the latest version of the dossier.
	All the things that the FBI has already committed to stop collecting, right?
	Because it fired Steele.
	He hands them out, and then they begin to have this extraordinary discussion.
	And some of the stuff is, you know, you know, almost uh jaw dropping in and sounds like a spy novel.
	They come up with these different theories.
	But one of the most important things that occurs here is that Glenn Simpson for the first time is recorded in written notes saying I know who the source that Christopher Steele used to prove this or to come up with all of this collusion allegations.
	And he actually isn't in Moscow.
	We don't have any sources in Moscow.
	Well, if you have any Russian spy case, you would kind of hope you have some sources close to the alleged plot.
	They're not it's a former Russian intelligence officer in the United States who's feeding this information.
	I show this to some of the best counterintelligence professionals in the world.
	People who've done this for a quarter century and more.
	And the first thing they said is, you know what?
	Uh counterintelligence professional, the first thing they're gonna say is that's not there is no such thing as a former Russian intelligence officer.
	That guy is working to disrupt the election.
	It's most likely a compromise effort to feed information to the Democrats to smear Donald Trump so we mess up the whole election.
	First thing that jumps out in the notes to the professionals.
	And then he talks about uh Glenn Steele, blurts something out and says uh at the end of the election, I couldn't wait anymore.
	I couldn't keep this dossier secret anymore.
	So I went to uh Mother Jones and David Korn and I leaked the store and I asked Christopher Steele to uh participate in that leak, by the way, violating the FBI's rules.
	Gets them fired.
	And he uses this word, excuse me.
	Yeah, got them fired too.
	Supposedly.
	Got them fired, it cost them right.
	He uses it was a hail marry attempt.
	Now that's such an important word, because we know what a hail marry means.
	They're trying to they're trying to make a last-minute impact on the election because it didn't go the way they thought.
	Well, that's so important because Glenn Simpson has now testified to two different committees House Intelligence, House Judiciary, and he told them the same thing.
	This was not about politics.
	I wasn't trying to influence the election.
	I was just trying to be a good citizen.
	This was about citizenship and reporting wrongdoing.
	Well, if you're about citizenship and you're reporting wrong, then you think you let the FBI do their job.
	But not these two guys.
	They go to the media and they leak it because really their intention is now clear.
	They're trying to sway the election and they're just using the FBI as a part of the political opposition tool that they they needed.
	So that's the second admission.
	And then the third admission is Glenn Simpson kind of gives us what he really thought his theory was.
	And this theory is ludicrous to the people I've talked to in the intelligence community.
	Here's here's how the theory goes.
	Donald Trump had a revolving group of insiders that were the point men for Moscow's big conspiracy.
	The first guy was Paul Manafort, he got kicked out.
	Then it was Carter Page, he got kicked out.
	So then it becomes Michael Cohen.
	And and those three guys are working the election and colluding and conspiring and doing all these things.
	Well, just think about this.
	There's no way Moscow uh had three separate assets working out an operation like this.
	It's not possible.
	But then you look into the facts.
	What why did they believe this?
	Well, Michael Cohen's relative uh did some real estate business in Moscow, and that's the best they got to prove that Michael Cohen was there.
	They say he might have been in Prague.
	We now know that Michael Cohen was never in Prague because he showed everybody his passport.
	This the level of weak uh double-hedged third source intelligence that Glenn Simpson says is the core of the Steel case is stuff that most intelligence professionals would have laughed out of the CIA or the FBI were it not for Pete Stroke and Bruce Ord, who are circling circling it through the system, even though it's this week this discredited, this silly of a of a plot.
	And uh and that's what we learned from these notes.
	And it's amazing that it took us 18 months for the Justice Department to keep these from the American public to see how silly this case was and how politically corrupted this case was.
	So, John, when you look at the situation, I mean, we're we're into this now.
	You know, this inquiry, as they call it or investigation started in 2016.
	We're now you know more than halfway through 2018.
	And it seems like every day or every couple of days you've got a new story and a new report and a new uh discovery.
	I don't know if we've seen the half of it yet.
	What do you think?
	Yeah, that's a great question.
	I think the most important thing that could happen uh before election day, quite frankly, at any time for the American public, let's not even tie it to an election.
	The most important thing to have happen here is what happened after 9-11.
	We had adults in the intelligence community at that moment, and after we got sucker punched and they had that horrific moment, the FBI and the CIA made a commitment.
	Listen, no matter how embarrassing it is, no matter how bad it is, we're gonna put all our chips on the table and we're gonna let people see what went wrong here.
	The American public deserves to know what was the FISA court told.
	What were the flaws in the evidence?
	What things did the FBI know that they withheld from the FISA court?
	And I think if we do that, Mr. Mayor was, you know, an important voice during that time for us during 9-11 of arguing for accountability.
	Uh if we didn't have Mayor Giuliani doing those sort of things, we might have not healed the way we did.
	We have to get right on this.
	We need the FBI director and the DNI and the CIA director to let us see what really happened here.
	It's not going to compromise any cases.
	John, why why this perplexes us tremendously.
	Why are Sessions and Rosenstein covering up?
	Why would they why would they uh obstruct Congress, keep this information back, not launch a really, really intense investigation.
	Instead of your finding this out, they should be finding this out.
	Why?
	What's the motive?
	That's right.
	I I think they may know it.
	And at the end of the time, I when I first came to town, I met an old wily senator named Bill Proxmayer's Democrat from Wisconsin.
	Never spent more than a thousand dollars on re-election.
	And he told me something that I always thought was stuck with me all these years later.
	He said, never ascribe to conspiracy what you can explain with bureaucracy.
	I think in some way the Justice Department knows that this is embarrassing for the institution.
	It's embarrassing for the court that they might have misled.
	And I think they're trying to run out the clock so they don't have to go through that period of embarrassment.
	But hey, the FBI had to go through 9-11 and miss the Phoenix memo and the Masley memo.
	The FBI will do itself and the American public a great favor if they just lay the cards on the table.
	This is what went right, this is what went wrong, we won't do it again.
	I think we all move on a lot quicker.
	I think the bureaucratic instinct that detects the institution is is at the heart of this keep away game.
	I really need to.
	Well, it could could it could it also be Rosenstein's involvement with the uh last Pfizer application?
	Well, that's a great question, sir.
	And and it's an interesting thing because in the story a couple days ago, I noted something very privately.
	Uh Rod Rosenstein sent a letter to Congress saying, Hey, I testified I didn't know uh there was nobody in my uh agency that was working on this except me.
	I didn't know about Bruce Orr.
	Well, you know, sir, because you were here at the top of the Justice Department.
	You ignorance is not an excuse before the FIC court.
	It is your obligation to know that Bruce Orr was doing these things that the FBI was withholding things before you signed your name to it.
	I think Rod Rosenstein's own personal institution, his own reputation is a little bit in jeopardy if we learn how much the court might have not known about exculpatory information and everything I hear about what's in the FISA redactive saxes is about exculpatory information.
	Hey, John, let me ask you this.
	Uh you've got a piece out, it's at the Hill right now, which uh uh and the Hill dot com.
	I know you've got other pieces you're working on, folks.
	You need to be following John Solomon.
	We encourage you and John, thanks for taking time to be with us on the Sean Hannity show.
	Yeah, and thanks for doing the work you're doing, John.
	You're doing what the Justice Department should be doing.
	Service to the United States.
	Thank you very much.
	All right, we're gonna be back with more.
	Yeah, boy, we've covering a lot of material material, Mr. Mayor.
	Amazing.
	That's what we're doing.
	All right, hang tight, we'll be back with more in a moment.
	And welcome back to the last segment of the Sean Hannity program.
	And it is great to say that um I've had the chance to be with Rudy Giuliani for hours and hours and hours over the last couple of months, working on a case that everybody knows about.
	But here we are on the last segment of the Sean Hannity show.
	Let me ask you this, Mr. Mayor, your your kind of impressions here as we are, as you and I say, trying to land the plane.
	Well, I think my impressions are that we're we're doing fine and we've got a you our strategy is multifaceted, we're ready for anything.
	The the thing about it, it's amazing is how much more there is to this that doesn't necessarily involve us.
	Going back to the beginning of this, I think this investigation is gonna continue, but a totally different focus.
	They're gonna investigate the investigators.
	Because of the irregularities.
	Somebody has to investigate this, and whether it's bureaucratic uh protection or something worse, the Justice Department has really, really acted uh inappropriately here.
	I agree.
	All right, let me tell you something else.
	Uh, we've had the opportunity to talk about a lot of issues about great guests, but we've also uh started the the broadcast with uh as we always do, giving you news of what's happening, and where, like I said, uh the mayor and I are kind of living it, making it and in the middle of it.
	But also I don't want to forget about uh something we talked about, and that is the the case of Pastor Andrew Brunson.
	Uh this is a big weekend on that case, I believe.
	You've read the news of what's happening in Turkey right now.
	The president's demanding the return of this American pastor.
	I'd appreciate your thoughts and prayers for him and for his family, uh, as we try to get him returned to the United States of America.
	Also, let me say this as we look at the case and I know there's you know, some of you are getting impatient some of them people are getting impatient with us, Rudy.
	Some people think why can't they just make up a decision here and just announce it?
	There's a lot more to it than that.
	Yeah, yeah.
	If we have to if we had just acted precipitously two or three months ago, none of this would have come out.
	Yeah.
	Patience has worked in our favor here.
	Yeah.
	And look, I I think at the end of the day, the legal strategy we've implemented is correct.
	I believe that uh the right type of uh process that we've gone through to protect the Constitution and the integrity of of the Constitution, separation of powers, Article Two.
	That's what you do when you're representing a president.
	And that's the highest task, I think.
	And you've had some big tasks, and I've had some big tasks, but this is the biggest task we've ever had as lawyers to represent a president.
	I had the opportunity a couple of times to represent President Reagan, not in this kind of thing, but as as president.
	It's a great honor to represent the United States government.
	When I was an assistant U.S. attorney, I'd get up in front of a jury or an appellate court, and I'd say, My name is Rudolph Juliana, I represent the United States of America.
	I'd always get goosebumps.
	Yeah.
	Always.
	That's like when I get uh when I when they call your name to the Supreme Court of the United States and say, Mr. Secular, we'll now hear from you.
	Yeah.
	I've done it a lot, but it doesn't change.
	You still get goosebumps when they say that.
	I think about that, you know.
	Mr. Secular, the grandson of a fruit peddler from Brooklyn that was from Russia that went to lived and raised his family in Brooklyn, New York.
	A barba.
	A barber and a barber and a and a tailor.
	There you go.
	My two grandfathers.
	There you go.
	Hey, it's been great sitting in for Sean, and I want to thank the entire staff of the Sean Hannity show for allowing us to do it.
	It's always a blast.
	And I will tell you this.
	Um does a great service every single day that he is on the air.
	And so does this team that he's got.
	Bringing you real news, real insight, real information.
	It's been our pleasure.
	Have a great weekend.
	Thank you.

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