Sean is off for the Thanksgiving holiday and Jonathan Gilliam ably fills in as he discusses strategies from his new book, "Sheep No More: The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival. Gilliam discusses the five basic principles everyone should know in order to protect themselves. The Sean Hannity Show is live weekdays from 3 pm to 6 pm ET on iHeartRadio and Hannity.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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This is Jonathan Gill.
I'm filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
Man, it is good to be back in the studio, even though, you know, Sean gives me such a ration about riding this scooter around New York City.
You know, it's the easiest way I could get around New York City.
It's an emote, it's a motorized ET.
Wow, it's a great scooter.
You know, listen, I recommend anybody that is in good physical shape, if they want to get around the city fast, because it goes about 20 miles an hour and you can zip through traffic and stuff.
It's great until you meet an empty planter hole that the city of New York doesn't have a tree in, and you flip head over end in it.
And I have a complete quadricep legament tear in my knee.
So that's my first visit to the VA this week.
And the VA here in New York City, they've done a pretty incredible job.
So I want to thank them for all that, for all their help this week.
Now, those of you who don't know who I am, and I hope that you do, I fill in on Sean Hannity's radio show.
You may have heard me on David Webb.
You may have heard me on Andrew Wilkow shows.
I'm a former Navy SEAL, Federal Air Marshal Security Contractor and FBI special agent.
And I just finished a book.
It's actually going to be out December 12th.
You can get it right now on Amazon.
It's called Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
You can pre-order that right now.
It's better that you pre-order it.
If you're driving down the road, you never heard of me before.
I'm going to tell you all about this book.
But I'm going to have a series of people talk today about awareness because that's ultimately what it's about, the art of awareness and attack survival.
What I'm going to try to do today before you go on your Thanksgiving, hopefully many of you are driving to your family's houses right now and you're listening to this and you're already out of work.
What I'm going to try to convey to you over the next few hours is something that is so important that I want you to, I know you listen to talk radio and everybody listens to stuff and there's so much going on with whether it's the sex scandals constantly or whether it is a terrorist attack or whether it's a church shooting by a crazed madman.
I'm going to tell you today, we're going to talk to several different people and we're going to go over awareness and how you can actually forward think a lot of these types of attacks and how you can do your own little target package on your life and different sectors of your life so that you can then identify where these things would possibly happen.
So, you know, if you're a female and you're at a new job or maybe you're an actress and you work in Hollywood, yes, there are conservatives that listen to this show that are in Hollywood.
We know that.
We know that.
So if you're listening, you know, this is going to be something that you'll want to stay for the whole three hours so you can understand that literally you can find out and identify where these sexual predators may pop up just by simply targeting yourself from their perspective.
And so that's what we're going to do.
We're going to work heavily today on teaching you this stuff.
We'll go over some headlines as well.
But I really, really want you all to realize that this is possible.
And again, as we see all these different sexual assault cases, like in the case of Al Franken, listen, let's not mistake this, okay?
That was sexual assault.
When you grab a woman who is not wanting to be grabbed and you forcibly kiss her, that is sexual assault.
And typically, unless, you know, well, there's no excuse for it, but you just figured she's interested and I'm going to go for it.
And this wasn't a date.
This was a rehearsal before they went on stage.
So whether it's Al Franken or anybody else that's in the news talking about sexual assault or talking about unwanted advances, talking about, look at Harvey Weinstein and literally physical rape.
You have to understand that you can forward think these things if you think you might be in that type of an environment.
So let's just talk about this a little bit today.
Let's talk about, and I'm going to take a ton of calls.
If you want to call in and tell your story today, 800-941-7326-800-941-7326, I want you to call in.
And if you have a story, if it's short enough, I mean, you don't have the whole hour, three hours to tell your story, but I want to hear from you because I want to talk about not just the fact that these things have happened.
That's what we talk about in the news.
We talk about this happened to this person, this happened to that person.
We talk about North Korea is a problem.
We talk about Russia is a problem.
We never ever talk about how we forward think these things and how we prepare ourselves so that we don't have to get into this situation, how we can literally avoid the situation.
You know, there's a movie about Churchill that's coming out, and on the commercial, there's an incredible quote from him, and I think I can get this right.
He said, you don't try to reason with a lion when your head is in the mouth of a lion.
Might have said tiger, but it was either lion or tiger.
And that's the truth.
Listen, you don't wait until you're in the environment and hope that you react properly.
So whether we're, again, whether we're talking about these weirdos in Hollywood and Washington, D.C., whether we talk about crazed maniacs around the country or around the world, maybe you're on vacation somewhere else, whether we're talking about fundamental Islam attacking again and again, that's not going away.
Whether we're talking, even, I'll put to you this way, even if you're talking about how people in your job are trying to outmaneuver you for positions and maybe they're doing some kind of deviant things.
I don't want to use the word nefarious.
I'm being told that I use that word too much.
But whether it's nefarious or deviant, you can literally identify these things.
It's time for the American people to stop being told that they'll be protected.
It's time for the American people to stop accepting the fact that politicians want them to be dependent.
It's time for the American people to realize that they can be empowered themselves.
You can take care of yourselves.
You can watch over yourself.
Yes, you can watch over yourself.
The way you do that is by understanding who, why, when, where, and how you could be attacked.
And again, I'm not just talking about physical attack.
I'm not just talking about sexual attack.
I'm not talking about just simply about terrorist attack.
I'm talking about all of them.
I'm talking about any particular way that somebody can do something to you that is unwanted or in a capacity where they're trying to take something from you.
So as we go through this, we're going to talk in just a little bit.
I was going to hold this, but I've already announced it on social media.
Elizabeth Smart is going to come on at 3.30 and talk.
That alone, folks, that alone is going to be worth sitting through this show because I watched her special the other night.
And if you don't know about her, and I'm going to go over this again in a little bit, you know, when she was 14 years old, a madman came into her house and took her.
And for nine months, I believe it was nine months, she was held captive.
Yeah, nine months.
She was held captive by this guy.
And a lot of terrible, awful things happened to her, but she was able to keep her mind and keep her wits about her.
She admits there were several times where she could have gotten free, but she was not in the right mindset as most people are that this could actually happen.
So I want to talk to her about that, about if she could have changed her mindset, if there's something that she could have done as a young person to prevent this if she thought it was possible.
I remember being in Arkansas nine years old, nine years old, and being very aware of the things that were going on.
I often say, you know, it's terrible, but children who have divorced parents or broken family, which my parents were divorced at a young age.
My father died when I was 13.
Those children see the world in a different way.
And so they're actually more prepared.
And this is no hit on parents who do a great job and stay together and who shelter their kids and give their kids love and attention.
The problem there is that whereas you have a children, a child that comes from a broken home, they may see the reality of the world and the things, the potential of things that can happen.
A child that lives in a good home will also have vulnerabilities.
And those vulnerabilities could be that they just never, ever expect that that could ever happen to them.
So I want you to remember these key words.
This is in my book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
It's on Amazon right now.
You can pre-order it.
I want you to remember these five key things that we'll talk about all day with all these different people.
We're going to talk about personal level awareness.
We're going to talk about citywide awareness.
We're talking about the federal government and the country and awareness.
Really, it's the lack thereof and how we can get this.
But remember these five criticalities.
Critical areas, critical times, vulnerabilities that can be exploited, attackers' avenue of approach, and the overall spectrum of critical assets.
All right, so critical assets, critical areas for those assets, critical times for those assets, the vulnerabilities that can be exploited for all those by the attackers, and the attacker's avenue of approach.
I want you to think about all of that as we go through this today.
So we're going to take a break real quick.
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This is Jonathan Gillum filling in for Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
You know, he always calls me when he's out.
I don't know.
Does Sean go turkey hunting?
Does he do that?
He's a New Jersey, or he's a New Yorker.
I actually, I don't know.
I don't know why they do.
Do you go turkey hunting?
I'm from Arkansas.
It's the law.
If I go back, we have to hunt.
So, you know, listen, as I started talking earlier there when we started this show, if you want to call in and talk about, you don't have to talk about something that's happened to you, but give your opinion, not just on different types of harassment that have happened or assault that have happened or if you've been in a terrorist attack or anything, any type of an attack, is how did you prepare for that?
Were you prepared?
Were you not prepared?
And I think people are starting to become more aware just by the nature of all the things that tend to happen these days, such as what's going on in Washington, D.C., the different types of sexual harassment.
And I think it's very, very good that women are starting to come out and not just feel empowered, but know that the ramifications, the more, listen, I've often felt and understood that and said this to people, that when you work in numbers, when you unify and you do things together, the power that you wield is unbelievable.
It's greater than any politician, any CEO, any manager will ever have if you face the problems with a unified group.
And so as these women start to come out, what's interesting is that it's becoming easier for women to come forward with issues and not expect that something terrible is going to happen to them because they did it.
But I do want to say this, before I go to the callers real quick, actually, you know what?
We're going to have to take a break here in a minute.
So let me just do this.
Let me say this.
I want women out there, if you're listening, I want you to think about this.
I came up with this.
I talked about it on my own show.
I do a show every night called The Experts on Facebook, Live, Twitter, and YouTube at 8 p.m. every night.
It's simulcast live.
And what I want women to know from a tactical perspective is this.
If you don't feel, if something happens to you and you don't feel like coming out and telling people that this has happened, here's what I think that you should, the least that you should do.
Because we've seen here with Roy Moore and with other people coming out 30, 40 years later and saying that this happened to them.
The court of public opinion is going to be hard pressed to believe that sometimes.
I'm not saying that the women aren't telling the truth.
I don't know.
But what I can tell you is that in order to protect yourself and your word, if you write down what happened to you in your own legible writing, sign it.
If you have a witness, get them to sign it, date it.
I mean, if you have newspaper clippings or something you could put in there as well, that's fine.
And then mail it to yourself.
And that way, and keep it sealed.
Make it go through the United States Post Office so it has a date and time stamped on it.
And so when you get that, you put it in your drawer.
And when you feel it's time to come out about this, now you have your own account of what happened from that point in time.
And I think that's going to protect you and not just you in your workplace, but in the court of public opinion, because I hate the fact that women get questioned when they come out about this stuff.
It also, if this was the common thing, it would also protect people that are being accused.
It's Jonathan Gillum filling in for Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
We're going to be right back and we're going to have an incredible interview when we get back.
Don't forget, go get my book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival, at Amazon right now.
Go straight from the source.
This is the Sean Hannity Show.
This is Jonathan Gillam, your good buddy, your Navy SEAL, former Navy SEAL, former FBI agent, your resident host for SiriusX and Patriot Channel.
And then when Sean needs me to come over here and host for him, I come over and host for him as well.
And remember, the phone number to call in is 800-941-7326, 800-941-7326.
And the entire show, I'm kind of, I've got a book that's coming out December 12th.
It's actually available for pre-order.
It's called Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
And as I've been telling you about, it's all about trying to divide your life up into sectors so that you can literally target yourself from an attacker's point of view and then turn around, develop your awareness and your understanding of every single place that you are vulnerable and that vulnerabilities exist that can be exploited.
And you can also understand the attacker's avenue of approach.
And that will better help you in your everyday life and being less paranoid and more aware.
And so last week, or it was earlier, or yeah, it was last week.
I was sitting this past weekend and I watched the Elizabeth Smart story.
I watched she had her own take on the things and then they had their movie afterwards.
It was absolutely one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.
First of all, the entire situation that happened, the way the incident occurred, the initial incident, the way it was carried out, the master manipulation by this psychopath of Elizabeth Smart, but also the very fact that as a 14-year-old, she was able to sustain her mental capacity and then talk about it afterwards and not just talk about it,
but talk about what she wishes she could have done better, what she wasn't prepared for.
So I told Lauren, Lauren made the call, and we got Elizabeth Smart to come on the show today.
So Elizabeth, I can't thank you enough for coming on here.
And I got to tell you, I'm told all the time, thank you for your service because I was in the military and stuff.
But I got to tell you, thank you for what you're doing now because of what happened to you then.
I just can't tell you how many lives you're probably saving and touching by doing what you do.
Well, thanks.
Thanks so much for having me.
And you did an incredible job telling your story.
And I've also seen your TED Talk, and you're very poised, which is, I'm telling you, you're amazing.
I've dealt with a lot of people who've been through these things.
I guess the question that I want to start off here is, if you could go back, and I know you've talked about this a lot, and you advocate for children and making people aware of young people aware of how they could better themselves and prepare themselves for these types of things.
If you could go back to that point, you know, let's say a year before, two years before, at 12 or 13, what do you think you could have done or the school could have done where you go to school, parents could have done or could do that would have prepared you for this type of potential incident?
Looking back, I'm not sure that there's anything that would have prepared me for it or could have prevented what happened.
I can't say for sure, but I do know that prevention education is huge because even if I had been through some prevention education and it still happened to me, I would have at least known what my choices were because in that moment when I woke up to a man standing above me with a knife at my neck telling me to get up and go with him, I didn't feel like there was a choice to be made.
I feel like I did the only thing I could do.
And so I think even just having that empowerment of realizing that even in that most dire of situations, I still had a choice, I think that would have been helpful because I mean, we talk about fire safety, stranger danger, what to do if you get in an earthquake.
We talk about all those kinds of forms of safety.
But has anyone ever talked to you about what you should do if someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night and has a knife at your neck?
No.
And certainly not every circumstance can be covered.
Not every scenario can be covered in prevention education, but many of them can.
And I agree with you.
So I wrote this book, and one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on here was to get your take on some of this stuff.
I think that if we break our lives up into sectors, you can look at some of these different things.
One of the things I did is I look at, and this is what I did a lot when I was in the FBI.
I ran the special events program.
So I would look at all the places in New York where there could be a potential attack, and I would look at it from an attacker's point of view.
One of the things that I didn't get from your story, and you may have said this, I just missed it, was how this individual got into the home.
So my mom, the excellent cook that she is, she had actually burnt some potatoes that day.
My grandfather had recently passed away, and it was the end of the school year, so millions of assignments were due, and my family was just sort of trying to regroup as we headed into the summer vacation.
And because of the many things on, my mom had a million things going at once, and the potatoes happened to burn.
So she opened the window to let it breathe in, and it was a window.
It was fairly high off the ground.
I mean, it wasn't just easy jump into the window.
It was fairly high off the ground, and it was narrow.
It wasn't a big fat window.
And that evening, I remember going around the house with my dad, locking the doors and closing the windows.
And I guess that window just was not closed 100%.
It just left a crack open just to try to continue to get rid of the burnt smell.
Right.
And that was the window he forced his way in through.
And he was aware.
He had done some work on your house before.
That's correct.
He had come to my house once before, yes, with the sole purpose of finding out where I lived.
And so he was fixated on you before.
That was his main goal when he came there was to find out about you.
Yes.
Very interesting.
So that's the same thing as I've talked about with a lot of people is that not just this type of psychopathic attacker, but pedophiles will slowly work their way into a home and often befriending the family, even through church or social engagements where they can actually get in touch with the family and then work their way close to the child.
So it may not just be a window.
It may be actually a social engagement.
Absolutely.
Well, the majority of kidnappings that take place, they're not strangers.
They are people that you know, whether it's family or someone within that circle of trust, a friend, a community leader, a religious leader.
I mean, unfortunately, stranger danger, as great as that is, your kids might be better off with a stranger rather than the people you know.
Right.
And that's kind of terrible that I just said that.
No, but it's, but it's the case.
I actually have investigated cases of most kidnappings, and I wouldn't say most, but a lot, a great vast majority of the kidnappings are domestic kidnappings where either an estranged parent, sometimes you even have people that were step parents will then go back and kidnap these children.
It happens all the time.
All the time.
And that's the scary thing.
I mean, I think that's why it's so important that we do have prevention.
We do try to approach this from every side, every angle possible, through home, through church, through school, and not just think, oh, well, we'll teach them this when they turn 10 or when they turn 12 or 8.
I mean, I think it has to be an ongoing conversation.
In fact, a couple years ago, I was interviewing two young women who they had both been raped their freshman year of college.
And because one was by a boyfriend and the other one was by a friend, neither one of them knew to call what had happened to them rape.
And that's always stuck with me.
So my foundation, the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, we've started something called Smart Talks where we are working with universities to come in and have a open, frank conversation about exactly what rape is, what sexual violence is, where it can come from, how it affects you, how your body reacts, how your mind reacts, and hopefully where you can turn to for help.
We just had our first one.
We had it at BYU in Utah, and we had about 1,000 people show up.
And I think that's just, I mean, that's right there proof of how needed this is, how much interest there is in it.
Yeah.
And I can't help but say that all these women, these strong women that are coming out and lowering these sexual allegations that you see on television, whether it be Hollywood or D.C., they're adding to the strength of women and just people in general to say that, you know, this happened to me or I don't want this to happen.
And, you know, I tweeted out to your foundation right after I watched your show that I believe your show, whether it be the movie or the part where you gave an account of what happened.
I don't remember which one came on first.
I think your account came on after the movie.
But that should be shown in school.
I think every year people should see this so that they are aware of the potential of these things.
Well, thank you.
That's extremely kind of you to say so.
But it's important.
I'm very proud of it.
But it is very important.
I mean, whether it's watching my show or just having these frank, open conversations, because every now and then, you know, there'll be a high-profile case that'll come into the media, and we'll all talk about it for a minute, and then it'll kind of die away as soon as the next big story comes along, and it just kind of gets forgotten by the wayside.
And that's not enough.
We need to have these ongoing conversations.
We can't allow them to forget.
I mean, at our first smart talk, I just had multiple, multiple women come forward to me and disclose to me how they didn't feel like they could ever be loved again.
They were scared to get into relationships again because they felt that they were damaged goods, that what had happened to them was somehow their fault, and now they can't move forward from it.
So, not only should we be addressing this from a preventative side, but we should also be addressing it from a human side and help people to realize that another person's actions cannot take away your worth as an individual.
Because that was probably the most heartbreaking thing for me that evening that we had our smart talks.
It wasn't me, you know, talking about my story or talking about things that are generally hard to talk about.
It was afterwards hearing girls coming up to me saying that they've been abused and that they couldn't make friends or that they wanted to have a boyfriend, but they were too scared to.
Or how do you talk about it with a significant other?
So, I think it needs to be approached from all sides.
How did you do that?
You know, I noticed one thing also in your show was that you didn't appear as a victim.
You appeared as somebody that had a traumatic thing happen, but you didn't look at it from a victimized standpoint.
I found that fascinating.
And when you talk about how now you're married and you have kids, how you and you were able to date.
How did you keep from going into that victim mindset?
Well, first of all, that is my son in the background.
That's all right.
No, he's got plenty to say.
Don't mind him.
Well, no, when I was kidnapped, I mean, I was very much that little girl who dreamed of meeting her Prince Charming and getting married and living happily ever after and having a family and all that entails.
I mean, that was very much me before I was kidnapped.
And when I was kidnapped, I felt like all of those dreams and hopes for my future had been ripped away.
And I remember when I came home, I felt like they'd all been given back.
Now, I think had I been in a culture where arranged marriages were common or where, I don't know, it's not uncommon to have extreme marital gaps in age.
I think those things probably very much would have affected me.
But I came home, I was only 15, so I was able to go back.
I mean, you can never truly reclaim everything that's been taken from you once you've been kidnapped and sexually assaulted.
But to as much of an extent as I could, I did.
And I was able to go through those experiences of, you know, holding a boy's hand for the first time and going on my first date and eventually having my first kiss.
And it was almost 10 years from the time that I was kidnapped to the time that I actually got married.
And so I think that was an important time period for me to grow and mature and experience more parts of life and different relationships until ultimately I was ready to get married.
And I think that's yeah, and I think that's been true on a lot of things.
And I've seen how Well, I've just come to learn and appreciate and be continually humbled and amazed at just how many people did pray for me and did search for me.
And as I was able to heal and grow, I realized that this is something that I can do to say thank you and not only to say thank you, but something that I feel very strongly about, very passionate about, that I want to see change happen because I know how terrible it is to be kidnapped.
I know how terrible it is to be sexually assaulted and abused.
Listen, unfortunately, I got to cut it there because we have to go to a break.
But I will have you back on any show that I'm hosting.
And I want to get a copy of my book to you as well.
And so I'll be in touch with you.
Okay, sounds great.
You got it.
And also, I want to tell everybody that your book is coming out as well, Where There's Hope.
It comes out in March, and they can follow you on Instagram and Facebook.
And again, Elizabeth Smart, I can't thank you enough for all you're doing for the young people out there.
We appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
God bless.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
This is Jonathan Gillum filling in for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
Call-in number is 800-941-7326.
That's 800-941-Sean.
I'm going to be taking your calls for the next 30 minutes.
All right.
So I want calls.
I want to know.
You don't have to tell me your story, but I want to hear from people.
If something happened to you, what would you have done differently to prepare yourself for this?
You don't have to give me your name.
And if you, you know, I just want to hear some more information.
I want everybody else to hear it so we can be more prepared for Thanksgiving.
We'll be right back here in just a minute.
If you haven't gone out and ordered my show, my book, go to Amazon and get Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
And remember, I do a show every night, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter.
It's called The Experts.
Right now, you're going to be the experts.
all in.
This is Jonathan Gillum filling back in for Sean Hannity the day before Thanksgiving.
And I can't thank Sean and Linda and Lauren and Ethan and everybody else.
There's like, I don't know, 50 people that work back here.
It's like a massive, massive organization that people make.
There's two people sitting here right now.
Well, yeah.
Okay.
So there's two.
I'm just trying to make it, you know, seem like it's, listen, it's a well-oiled machine.
I'll give you that.
Out of all the teams that I've ever worked with, this is the type of place.
I know this sounds like I'm kissing up, but they have me on here anyway, so I don't have to kiss up anymore.
It's the type of place where you want to come to work.
And so many people that work in different environments in the entertainment industry or whatever, in news and media, they don't necessarily look forward to coming to work.
And I think a lot of it starts with Sean.
It just works its way down the way that everything is set.
If you're a manager and you're out there listening to this, you need to stop for a second and think, why do people not like you?
I'm not saying, I mean, first of all, you need to find out people don't like you.
If you're a manager, probably people are not going to like you.
Either you're a good manager, which there's always going to be people that don't like you, or maybe you should start setting the example and help people want to show up to work.
Listen, I'm kind of getting off the subject here, but that's the case.
Everywhere I've ever worked and I've worked in four different federal agencies, one state agency, and now working in different entertainment.
I keep saying entertainment.
It's really news and radio, but it's really entertainment.
So I'll tell you what we're going to do.
I was saying we're going to go to some calls today.
And I want to start with Mark in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, because not only women, you know, there's all this talk about women who are being sexually assaulted in the news or that these things are going on.
We've got to realize this can happen to other people.
Down in Tampa, there's been several men killed by this serial killer.
So this can be something that happens to men as well.
So Mark, you say you were jumped.
What exactly happened?
Well, sir, good afternoon.
I was stationed in the Republic of Korea at the time.
I was based out of Seoul at Yongsan there on Main Post.
And we didn't have a lump room in all the barracks, so I got put downtown.
I had an apartment.
So one night, I got off work about 2 a.m.
I'd been getting ready for an IG inspection all day.
So I'd been up since like 4 in the morning.
I was tired, walking back to my apartment, and all of a sudden, Korean gentleman steps out in front of me, asked me for my wallet, and I wasn't going to give it to him.
So he tried the cordial approach at first.
Would you please give me your wallet?
Go ahead.
I wouldn't say he was exactly polite.
He's pretty straight to the point.
I told him basically not only no, but hell no, and get out of my way.
And then I got hit from behind.
So the next thing you know, I was on my face, and there's several people there using me for a soccer ball.
So this was a group of people.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
So I was pretty fit.
You know, back then I was in my early 20s.
I worked in the motor pool.
I could yank a winch off the front of one of those five-ton trucks back then.
I was just quite an animal.
And all I thought was, these guys are going to kill me for my wallet.
So even though I had taken kung fu for about a year and a half, I had martial arts training.
You know, I worked out in Spart all the time.
All that went out the window.
And all I knew was these guys are going to try to kill me.
So I just went, I went animal.
I knew I was fighting for my life.
So I was able to, and to this day, I couldn't tell you how I got back on my feet.
And I just started pulling at them, punching at them.
I gave them everything I had.
It was just pure animal survival.
And I got one of their ears.
And it wasn't pretty.
Right.
But I guess from them screaming and yelling because I was wailing on them, they took off.
And I think the only reason I survived was because I didn't hold anything back.
So let me ask you this, Mark.
So you were in the military, I guess, correct?
That's why you were there?
Yes, sir.
So thank you for your service, first off.
And do you think that even in the military, I think this is something that people think because I was in the military as well that force protection is just going to be something that we automatically know that you're not going to be put in harm's way.
But like you said, you were put off base.
What do you think that you could have done differently?
Or let's say you, I mean, the military inevitably could always done something differently.
But what do you think yourself, from a targeting perspective, what could you have done differently that would be the lesson that you would teach people?
Not the fact that you fought them off because, you know, there's actually, to tell you the truth, I'm glad you did, but there's a lot of people who aren't going to be strong enough to fight somebody off.
What would you have done differently to actually look at this from a critical standpoint and say this may be a critical area?
And me going to and from work may be a critical time.
What could you have done differently to maybe avoid that?
Well, first and foremost, I would have raised my level of situational awareness.
I think I grew complacent, even though there was those type of petty crimes that went on all the time.
I would say, number two, I should have taken probably some different routes back and forth to work.
I got into a pattern.
I, you know, got comfortable, thought it was okay.
And it just, as soon as that individual stepped in front of me, I should have been aware that there may have been somebody behind me.
I just, I was tired.
I was run down, but I let down my guard and I set up a pattern.
And I think that's what the effect.
Well, they know, you know, people typically, as I've been talking about all day, is that bad guys, it doesn't matter if it's somebody who's going to rob you, if it's somebody that's going to break into your house, whether it's a pedophile, or whether it's, you know, you're facing an enemy on the battlefield.
Or even, you know, as a SEAL and an FBI agent, we build target packages.
That's what attackers do.
If you alleviate or get rid of, you know, bad guy, good guy, and you say attackers.
All attackers will build some sort of a target package.
And I can guarantee you that these people knew that where base housing, off-base housing was and the routes people would take.
And they know that people get complacent.
And that's how they knew who to look for.
They knew what days to target you and so on.
So a lot of times they'll target people around payday.
So, yeah, you're absolutely right.
Complacency is one of the most self-imposed vulnerability, biggest self-imposed vulnerabilities that we have as a human being.
You don't see antelope on the plains of Africa hanging out with lions and being complacent.
They're always on alert.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, listen, we're glad.
I'm glad that you made it through that.
And thank you for sharing that and letting people know that, you know, how important this complacency issue is.
And God bless you.
And thank you for your service and have a great Thanksgiving.
Let's go to Colleen in Wisconsin.
Hi.
Thank you for having me on the show.
You got it.
Interesting conversations.
It's sad for my kids because then they're older, young adults now.
But I've always made them quite aware to be responsible, especially my daughter.
Now, my sons know how to respect women, but my daughter knows how to respect herself.
And I think I'm going to put the pressure now on women for once because you're not hearing this enough.
I think women need to take responsibility of themselves and their bodies.
We want to be equal to men.
Well, to be equal to men, you're not going to get it because we're completely two different creatures, two different types of people.
And I look into workplace, and I remember in the 80s when I was young, a guy coming up to me, hey, Toots, Toots, banging his hand on the counter, wanting my attention.
And I looked at him firmly and I said, you want service.
You will call me miss or ma'am.
And he knew right then and there I meant business.
I think the sad thing today is with Hollywood, what they're depicting women to be and become are really sad for my kid, my daughter for one.
How can she measure up to that?
And do I want her to measure up to that?
I mean, do I want her to feel that she gets empowerment by sexual looks and what she says or to look perfect?
I almost kind of wonder in situations like the ones that are being called upon.
Now, not all of them.
And I'm not talking about the ones that were kids being offended by these sex offenders or by someone like Al Franken when someone's asleep.
I'm talking about, I want that job.
I'll do anything to get that job.
What are these women doing?
I want to hold them accountable too.
You want to be respectful or get respect, but dress respectful.
Don't be dressing like you're walking the streets.
I mean, we've got to start holding ourselves accountable as women as well.
I mean, that's important too.
I mean, I don't like to defame someone.
You have to look at all counterparts here.
You got to take it apart and say, okay, what are we doing?
If we want to change the culture, we're going to write steps with looking at ourselves.
Yeah, see, that's how are we going to change the culture?
It's interesting because on the other shows that I've hosted as well, I'm getting more calls.
I'm not getting any calls from men saying what you're saying because, quite frankly, I don't think men are going to put themselves out there to be slaughtered if they said that.
It's interesting because the calls I've gotten from women, they are saying that more and more.
That not saying that people in the way that they dress that they ask for it, but especially with the case of people in certain career fields where they identify like Harvey Weinstein was known for this, and yet they still allow themselves to be put into that position instead of trying to maneuver.
Why did that woman allow that Al Franken to touch her butt or touch her breast for that quote for that picture?
Did it give her empowerment?
Like, I'm going to be, there's going to be more press out there for me if I do this.
I kind of think, okay, maybe you're in the wrong, women.
You're in the wrong because what you're allowing is wrong.
And what you're allowing my daughter to think is acceptable or any young women out there that thinks it's acceptable isn't.
Yeah, let me get what you were.
Let me say this, though, about Leanne Tweeden.
You know, I think she gave ample warnings to Al Franken, and then Al Franken came on strong.
The other thing when she was asleep, I don't care if you're a comedian or not, that's unacceptable.
And that's no excuse that I'm a comedian.
You know, I do agree with you that women should be aware of the positions that they're putting themselves in.
I don't know about the dress and all this stuff.
I'm not somebody who can judge somebody based on what they're wearing and stuff.
And I truly believe that no matter what somebody is wearing, it doesn't matter if they walk into an area and people are, and somebody feels the need to demean them or have power over them.
That has nothing really.
The truth is, has nothing to do with what they're wearing.
If somebody is going to do that, they're going to be that kind of person that's going to catcall or hit on or not just ask somebody out, but continuously go after somebody to the point where they have to get, for instance, a restraining order.
I mean, the fact is that awareness is key all the way around in all of this.
And if we are aware and you're aware of your surroundings and you think like an attacker, you're going to be able to determine who these people are.
Ultimately, that's what's going to happen.
And then you'll know how to act, not just react.
This is Jonathan Gillam.
We're going to take a break right now.
Call in numbers 800-941-7326-800-941 Sean.
We're going to come back.
Got a good call from Russ in Virginia about churches.
I've been waiting to talk about this as well.
Don't tune out.
Stay tuned in.
You're going to learn a lot on today's show.
We're getting away a little bit from all these news headlines, but we'll cover some of that as well.
And go get my book, Sheep No More: The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
It's available right now on Amazon for pre-order.
We'll be right back.
The land of the free because of the free.
It's the Sean Hannity Show.
This is Jonathan Gilman filling in for Sean Hannity, and we're talking today about awareness and with all these different things going on, terrorist attacks, sexual assaults, all these different things.
I felt it was important, especially before Thanksgiving the holidays, to come on and talk about awareness.
And real quick, because I'm not going to have very long before another break, let's go to Russ in Virginia to talk about the church security.
Go ahead, Russ.
What's your question?
Hey, JT.
How are you doing?
Just wanted to say that my church has got me doing security for them.
And I'm trying to teach those that haven't handled a weapon to also be aware and that it may be one of their final things to do is to pick up that weapon.
And I don't want them to be afraid of it.
We have several people who carry.
And we're having training sessions with the weapons and target practice because if you don't use it, you lose it.
Here's one thing.
I'm working with them, and I'm just wondering if there's anything else that I can do to get them more aware of their surroundings.
Absolutely.
You know, Russ, one of the things, I'm limited on time here.
One of the things that you can do is you can identify the critical areas where an attacker could come from.
Although it could be just inside the church and somebody stands up and does something.
So people need to realize this.
The whole congregation needs to realize this.
They also, your congregation needs to know how they should act.
Just simply lying on the ground is not going to cut it.
If somebody comes in there and they start shooting and they're able to get off rounds and then they start to reload or they hide, you know, it's time to fight or escape and evade.
Evade means you're going to go from cover and concealment to cover and concealment until you can work your way out of that.
The other thing I would really highly recommend is that you all purchase airsoft guns similar to the pistols that you all have and then set up some role players to come in there and have some role-playing scenarios where they can actually draw their weapon and shoot at the person coming in with the airsoft gun.
And that is huge.
You are not going to believe how big that is when it comes to actually getting the mindset that you're going to need.
The other thing is, you know, a good friend of mine owns veterans manufacturing.
That's vetsmfg.com.
And he's got backpacks that have ballistic shields in them and all kinds of different things.
And you can go on there.
It's at vetsmfg, V-E-T-S-M-F-G.com.
And you can put in this code.
You'll get a discount.
It's JTG10.
But I would recommend that, building the awareness and then also practice, because not just target practice, but actually shooting when you're under stress.
And you can do that with Airsoft and actually and actually have a good outcome.
Remember, awareness is the key in all of this.
This is John the Gill, and we'll be right back for more on the Sean Hannity Radio Show, 800-941-7326-800-941.
Sean, go get my book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival at Amazon.
We'll be right back.
Check him out on Twitter.
You can find him under at Sean Hannity.
This is Jonathan Gill.
I'm filling in for my buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
Calling number is 800-941-7326-800-941.
Sean, for those that like to spell numbers, I always like to say that.
That's my little thing.
Spelling numbers.
Why people spell that?
We don't have rotary phones anymore.
I don't even know why.
Anyway.
People like to have options.
So here, we've been talking all day about awareness and how important it is.
You know, I'm calm when I talk about it because I deal with this stuff a lot, right?
So you're not going to hear me getting all amped up in these stories and telling this stuff because I've dealt with this stuff.
And the FBI, when I ran the special events program, sounds like I'm putting on parties.
That's not what it was.
I was the guy who went around the city and identified areas that could be targeted and did operations, orders and threat assessments for large events that would have a huge draw, like the Macy's Day parade, or small events that may still have a large draw, like when Glenn Beck did his first.
It was like almost like Facebook Live, but it was on the internet, it predated the blaze and it was right next to Times Square.
So I was constantly evaluating things from an attacker's point of view so that I could identify the critical areas that they would attack, the critical times for those areas, the vulnerabilities that they would exploit and the attacker's avenue of approach and that's what I want you all to continue to concentrate on and what the critical assets are that they will be going after right.
So if it's a, if you are the facilitator in a mall or you may be looking at the food court as a critical area, and of course, there's going to be certain times when that food court is full, those are critical times.
If you work in a high-rise building, your air conditioner may be the the critical asset that they're wanting to attack.
Um, because they're wanting to.
Uh, maybe somebody wants the day off, I don't know it's not always that nefarious, but let me just tell you this, the next guest that I have on here he's joining me now uh, Mason Wells.
It unbelievable.
So you're, and you're an author.
Uh, left Standing is the miraculous story of how Mason Wells survived, and i'm not gonna you're not even gonna believe this when I tell you.
The book's called left Standing.
He survived the Boston terrorist attack, Paris terrorist attack and the Brussels terrorist attack.
So, first of all um, I don't know if you want to go into your career field now where you're at.
I don't know if you're allowed to do that.
Oh yeah, we can.
We can go into that, okay.
So you're in the Naval Academy?
Yeah, so you've been screened to make sure that you're not with ISIS?
Yeah, I submitted my background check, if that's what you're asking.
Yeah okay, yeah.
So um, i'm just joking with you there, but I will.
I will tell you.
This is pretty interesting that you happen to be at all these places.
Now what particular?
Was it just random circumstance that you happened to end up at these things?
Were you running the marathon and won?
Were you a spectator?
Yeah, so I, i'll go into that.
So, with Boston, my mom was actually running the Boston marathon in 2013 and me and my dad were heading back towards the finish line, actually trying to find her, because she finished the race before we got back there and we were about 50 to 70 meters away when the first bomb went off in Boston.
Um afterwards, when the the attacks in Paris happened I, during the Charlotte Hub Charlie Hebdo shooting, I was actually in Rouen and then, during the Paris bombings, I was actually in Cala, so I was outside of Paris at the time.
Uh, I I can say that being over there left me with a lot of reflections about um, you know, these sorts of events.
Why go allows these things to happen?
You know what?
Why do good thing, bad things happen to good people?
Those sorts of questions.
And then, with Brussels, I was about 10 feet away when uh, the first Brussels airport bomb went off.
Wow, that's just a listen.
There's certain things that you can't say.
That's a coincidence.
I don't think this is a coincidence.
I think the fact that you were so close to these um, hopefully he's doing this too, so that you can tell the story uh, about this.
Well yeah, there's certainly a lot of things that i've learned, and we did screen the building today.
Right, there's no, we locked it down.
Okay, heightened security.
No, as long as you're right next to me, you're fine.
But no, it's definitely left me with a lot of questions.
Most people don't experience one terrorist attack, let alone multiple bombings, right?
And I've definitely contemplated what that means for me.
Ultimately, this book and what we wrote and what I wrote gave me a chance to put everything out there and to share my story and to provide a little bit of hope to people.
And that's why I did this in the first place.
Let me ask you this: was there differences in the atmosphere before and after the attack happened for each place?
Was there something similar to that atmosphere?
Yeah, so it's actually interesting.
I can look and see the differences as well as the similarities in everything that I've experienced.
When I was in Boston, the response happened fairly quickly.
Within one to two minutes, you had police cars, ambulances, everything rushing to the scene, almost running into people, pedestrians, standing still as they tried to weave out of these massive groups of people fleeing the scene.
When it came to Brussels, though, the response was a lot slower.
I mean, it took me three hours to finally leave that airport in an ambulance to the hospital.
So if you can imagine, I'm sitting there with third-degree burns, shrapnel, you know, ruptured Achilles tendon, wounds to the point where I couldn't even get up and walk.
And I'm out there in the cold for about three hours.
It was a long ride, and it certainly left me with a lot of time to contemplate.
So, and where were you during the Paris attack?
During the Paris attacks, I was outside of Paris when they happened.
And Paris was a city we were in regularly.
I'd been in northern Paris the week before the attacks.
And those attacks left a lot of the French people as well as us with questions.
And people were angry.
People were scared.
And those reflections are in the book, and that's why I've put it in there.
So, out of, I know you were injured in the Brussels attack in the airport, but which one would you say affected you the most?
Did they all affect you in different ways?
Well, yeah.
And Boston, I think, definitely shattered some of that innocence that I had about the world, right?
I was 16 at the time, and I was really confused as to what was going on.
Once I realized it was a bomb, that was scary for 16-year-olds.
By the time Brussels came around, I'm like, damn it.
I just said there's, I mean, I had accepted, and this isn't a good thing, but I kind of accepted that terrorism just happens wherever you go.
And that shouldn't happen.
Happens where you go.
That's for sure.
Well, it shouldn't be the new normal, right?
It shouldn't be the new normal.
And when I got to Brussels, actually being severely injured, it made me realize that there's definitive good and definitive evil in this world.
And the people that perpetrate these acts of violence, they're evil people.
And we have to stand up to that.
Here's something that I want you to take to heart in this because I've studied this quite a bit and it was part of my field when I was in the FBI.
Yes, people, I like to look at these fundamentalists, these Islamic fundamentalists.
First of all, we have to call them for what it is.
This is fundamental Islam.
It's not radical Islam.
It's the same Islam that was practiced by Muhammad 1,400 years ago.
So the reality is the people, there's a lot of people that I would say the majority of people who actually commit jihad in the name of Islam are very religious people.
They're just following something that, or they've been twisted in a way where they go down this evil path.
But I have to say, like most people who are part of cults, they may not be evil people, but what they believe in and what they've been led down is an evil thing.
And that is more scary than an evil person.
An evil ideology will literally cloud the judgment of millions of people over a long period of time versus an evil person who will do, like in a mass shooting, something very evil for a short period of time, and it's that person.
Well, one thing I will say is as an ecclesiastical missionary for my church, I was out on the roads talking with people every single day.
That's what we did.
And I think that the people that did these horrible acts in Europe don't represent the feelings of most of the people, most of the Islam or Muslim people that I met walking the roads.
That being said, we can't dismiss these acts of violence.
It's not okay.
I was able to forgive and get past that and move on with hope.
And, you know, I hope most people that are involved in these attacks can, but that doesn't make what they do dismissable.
I mean, we have to fight this.
And you can forgive all you want doesn't mean that it's going to stop on their part.
Yeah.
And, you know, let me say this one thing.
Forgiveness, I hear this a lot in missionaries.
I'm a Baptist, and so people go downrange.
I call it, they go to other countries to do missions to help out and stuff.
We should never do two things.
You should never say, I'll be protected by God because God's giving you protection by making you aware.
That's the first thing.
You have to protect yourself.
The second thing is you can't say that I'm going to forgive this person and then turn a blind eye.
Because like I said earlier today, one of the quotes from Churchill is that you don't try to reason with a lion or tiger when you have your head in the lion's mouth.
But go ahead.
Well, yeah, I was just going to say that I'm not going to be one to propose what we should do on a government scale or what nations should be doing.
But what I can say as individuals is kind of rooting out that fear in ourselves is essential to continuing our lives.
We can't let these things define us.
We can't let these things change how we think about travel, how we think about our families.
Ultimately, we need to find hope in better times to come.
And I think there will be a day when the prevalence of these attacks and these mass shootings slows down.
And I hope it stops.
I hope it stops soon.
But until then, I think we just need to have faith in a higher power and do our best as citizens to be decent people and address it where we can.
Now, let me ask you this.
I don't disagree with you there.
I mean, that's the way you're not a victim.
It's by you continue to keep that mentality.
People do need to be aware, though, that there are people that wake up and their sole goal in life is to do bad things.
I agree.
There's people.
If you had to, and I asked Elizabeth Smart this just a little while ago.
We're being inundated by Utahians.
Is it Utahian?
Utons.
So if you had to go back, or if you had the chance to go back and educate yourself from before the first attack up through the third one, what is something that you would have done to make yourself more aware of the potential and the area that was so critical where these things happen?
Because one thing about the attacks that you were involved with is that I could identify in my career as a targeting expert, I could clearly identify the end of the Boston Marathon where they weren't doing sweeps.
They were allowing backpacks.
I could say that in Brussels, the attack happened at the arrival, not the departure.
Yeah, it happened at the check-in lines.
Yeah, right.
Large groups of people just before security.
Right.
So there's, yeah, and security is this fake thing that we think once you get past security, you're going to be safe.
But they think anything around security is going to be safe.
That's not necessarily true.
But what are the things that you could have done to increase your awareness that people need to realize?
Oh, I think one thing is realizing when you're in a large group of people and doing your best to, if not stay on the edges, just plan accordingly, right?
Just being aware of the kinds of people that are around you.
And this goes for a lot of different things.
When we were in France, we had a lot of manifestations.
They're pretty much riots and protests.
And those kind of erupted out of nowhere sometimes.
And so essentially just keeping your head on a swivel, trying to stay away from big groups where you can.
And like I said, it's just a common sense thing.
I don't think we should live our lives in fear of these sorts of things.
That being said, do your best to keep your head on a swivel and also know how to respond if something like this happens.
If you can give help and you're someone that knows basic first aid, then by all means, stay and help somebody.
But if you have kids with you, if you know you're not going to be able to help, get as far away as possible from the scene.
When I was injured in Brussels, actually at the airport, about 45 minutes after the bombs had gone off, someone started shooting.
There was actually an active shooter that hardly anyone ever reported.
Another bad guy or is this?
Another bad guy, yeah.
A man with the Glashnikov.
They're shooting people, as people put it.
And he essentially started shooting the people that were there.
Military police took him down really fast.
But that happened 45 minutes after the initial bombings, right?
So, you know, don't secondary attacks.
Yeah, don't stand there with your cell phone and film what's going on or take pictures.
I mean, it's important that some of these things be documented, of course, but if you can't help or you know that's not practical for you to help, get away.
Get yourself in a safe spot.
It's interesting.
A lot of the stuff that you're pointing out is not just individual, but citywide level thinking, right?
So like in Boston, you know, there could have been more screening beforehand.
The response afterwards could have been more of a tactical response in the way of after the initial attack and after they got the second guy, the mayor goes on and tells everybody, we got him.
Well, they don't know who else is involved with that.
And in Brussels, and both of these attacks overseas, you saw the slow response, which means that they're not prepared for it, the authorities.
But overall, the main thing that you said there is groups, large groups.
There needs to be a better way that the cities mitigate these large groups.
And the individual can do that by trying to stay out of those large groups.
Yeah.
And again, I'm not going to propose anything on like a state or a.
You will, though, when you graduate from the Naval Academy, you'll be proposing a bunch.
Yeah, hopefully a little wiser, too.
Ultimately, I think that we can go a long way to making all of this better by just being decent people, by being aware of the people around us, by being sincere, by taking the time to invest in other people's lives.
And then if we can root out some of this anger and this hate, obviously it doesn't make what they did permissible, but rooting out that anger and that hate, that starts with us.
And I think that's important.
I agree with you.
My take on it is I want to be like Peter in the Bible, where, you know, I'm a rock, but a little bit more of an aggressive edge.
An aggressive edge.
It's called violence of action.
But listen, I can't thank you enough.
Everybody, you need to go out and get this book.
Mason Wells, the name of the book is Left Standing.
Unbelievable story.
He was in Boston, Paris, and Brussels attacks.
Thank you very much, my friend.
Can't thank you enough.
And be safe.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
And exit the building quickly.
We'll be right back.
This is Jonathan Gillam filling in for Sean Hannity.
Call in numbers 800-941-7326.
We'll be right back.
Old Inspired Solutions for America.
This is the Sean Hannity Show.
This is Jonathan Gillum filling back in for my good buddy Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
And man, that was interesting.
We have had so many interesting people talking today about different types of things that they've been involved with, whether it be abduction, whether it be terrorist attacks.
And this is where I want people to focus and realize that the fact is it can happen to you.
You know, everybody always talks about lottery and they say that I'm not going to play a lottery because I'm never going to win that.
Well, somebody does eventually win the lottery.
Your chances are just as good as theirs.
So the same thing with an attack.
If you just keep saying, not me, not me, well, eventually, guess what?
It might be you.
So why don't we, we're going to take another break here in just a second while we're taking a break.
Go to Amazon and order Sheep No More, the art of awareness and attack survival, and then call in 800-941-7326.
I'll be taking your calls eventually.
I'll get to those.
Coming up next is my good buddy, Scott Ulinger, and Dr. Shiva Ayuduri, I believe is how you say his name.
This is going to be incredible.
We'll be right back.
This is Jonathan Gill.
I'm filling in for Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show on radio stations all throughout the universe.
I believe they even have them on other planets and locations throughout the galaxy.
I don't know.
That's what I've been told.
So next, who I'm going to have coming up now is my good buddy Scott Ulinger and Dr. Shiva Ayoduri.
Scott Ulinger is a congressional candidate for Pennsylvania's 5th District.
He's a former CIA operations officer and co-host of the podcast, The Station Chief.
You can find him on Twitter at The Station Chief.
And Dr. Shiva, as he's called, a.k.a. Dr. Shiva, is a Massachusetts U.S. Senate candidate running against Elizabeth Warren.
And I can't thank you guys both enough.
So, Dr. Shiva, you know, I had you on David Webb's show with me today, and you just said in passing that you invented email when you were at MIT, which is very interesting because Scott Eulinger used to work for the CIA where they read all our emails.
So that's interesting.
That's right.
Yeah, the CIA was reading that while I was creating it.
Yeah, I mean, I actually did it, believe it or not, before I came to MIT when I was a 14-year-old kid in a small medical college in Rutgers University.
You guys probably remember in the old days when I was the secretary of the inbox, outbox folders?
Right.
Remember the old pneumatic tubes?
I converted that to the electronic form called it.
Email got the first U.S. copyright and wrote 50,000 lines of code before I came to MIT.
But that was the first email system.
Wow.
We're not talking about text messaging.
Yeah.
And Scott, you're running for, I'm sorry, I said this wrong, Pennsylvania's 15th district.
I think I said 5th.
It's 15th district.
That's right.
The incumbent congressman decided to follow the path of Flake and Corker and not seek re-election because he's basically blocking the Trump agenda.
Yeah.
Well, let me ask you.
So the reason I want to have you guys on together is because I know you, Scott.
I talked to you, Dr. Shiva, last week or two weeks ago, and you both are not establishment people.
You are both individuals who are experienced, free thinkers, and you have the big three things that make up wisdom, which we have none, and it seems like in Washington, D.C. That's knowledge, understanding, and experience.
And you all are leaders in your field.
How do you, I guess the question, Scott, I'll start with you.
When you go to Washington, D.C., and you will, you will be there, what do you feel like is going to be your biggest hurdle?
Because you're going to be in, you're really going to be in an environment that is not an environment of your peers.
Yeah, that's correct.
I mean, I think, I mean, the job number one is going to be to do my best by the people in my district and basically fight a lot of the corruption that we see all around in forms of, you know, the deep state and what's going on now with, you know, the ongoing saga of Uranium One and, you know, fusion GPS and things like that.
People are just tired and they want the swamp to be drained.
You have to start somewhere.
So I'd like to start with things like that.
And what about you, Dr. Shiva?
Well, you know, it's interesting.
In Massachusetts, if you look at the facts, Massachusetts was rated the lowest in public integrity, which means the best in corruption, the third highest than the national average in opioid addiction, and the worst infrastructure.
And if you look at that, that was all brought to you by the parties of Elizabeth Warren, the Never Trump or Republican Charlie Baker and Mitt Romney, and all Harvard graduates, by the way.
And what's fascinating is Harvard doesn't pay a single dollar in tax.
And one of the things we've been asserting really hard is that Harvard is fundamentally a $45 billion fake university pretending to be a hedge fund.
Essentially, it's a hedge fund.
That's what Harvard really is.
It's a fake university, which is actually a hedge fund.
And on the flip side in Massachusetts, for every 17 skilled job openings, only one person is skilled.
And so what you really created, what these guys have created in Massachusetts within the swamp, is a lot of educated people, quote-unquote educated people, are unskilled to take on the 21st century.
So the biggest thing we want to do is unleash VoTech schools here.
We want to ensure that we really start skilling America and really recognize that down the street is where all the nerds are.
33,000 businesses came out of MIT, $2 trillion in revenue for the entire nation in terms of annual revenue being generated.
So it's time that everyday working people, blue-collar, high-tech, blue-collar workers, everyday people actually run this country.
And that's what our campaign is about.
So with that being said, that's a great segue into this: is how do normal blue-collar people run for office?
Is there any way that they can do this and not have to subscribe to the establishment mentality?
Scott, go ahead.
I think that that can be done because at this point, because now after 2016, we have, you know, the game has changed somewhat.
And there are a lot of organizations out there and a lot of individuals who seek to, who believe in the message.
They believe in the president's agenda.
And they're willing to support candidates who are willing to go against the establishment and support that agenda.
So it's never going to be easy.
But I think for the first time in many a year, regular people, citizen politicians, and blue-collar candidates are going to be able to find sources of funding to basically ensure the will of the people is followed.
So, and go ahead, Dr. Shiva.
One of the things, you know, if you look at historically at many of the major phase shifts in American politics, it's always been technology.
You know, Roosevelt, it was radio.
Kennedy, it was TV.
You know, I don't really care for Obama, but he used social media, Trump, Twitter.
And the next phase is what we call the use of data warehousing and big data technologies that really help us do targeting but make it accessible.
What's happened is that two parties, the GOP establishment and the Democrats, do not make the data available to everyday independent candidates.
That's how they control the entire process of quote-unquote democracy in this country.
One of the things we're doing, you know, given that I got the four degrees from MIT, started a bunch of companies, we've created an infrastructure that we're running to use in our campaign that's innovative technology.
Part of what we want to do is we want to make that technology accessible to all independent candidates.
It's really going to come down to leveling the playing field.
You know, the iPhone has leveled the playing field.
Smartphones have leveled the playing field.
It's going to come through technology, enabling everyone with very little money to compete with the big guys.
And that's what's going to get very, very exciting.
So, you know, again, financially, it's going to be difficult for people to compete because in congressional races, for instance, Scott, those used to be in the hundreds of thousands.
And as we saw down in, was that in Alabama, I think it was this last year where it got into the tens of millions.
Oh, in Georgia, that's right.
Georgia.
It extended into the millions.
That's right.
So, that, I guess, in a way, it's a good thing that you start getting national attention on local congressional elections, but perhaps along with national attention, you also get an increased need for funding, right?
So, that's that's something that is going to have to be squared away.
But fortunately, I found some people who are very supportive of my candidacy, and I think they're going to be continuing to be supportive of a lot of other individuals running for Congress across the country who are willing to stand up against the establishment and ensure that the will of the people is carried through.
Dr. Shiva, you know, you talked about Harvard, for instance.
And you know, there's when people think of the deep state now, they're familiar with this.
They're hearing about whether it be the DOJ or the intelligence communities or even in the DOD, all these different agencies.
I don't think they realize that the deep state extends past Washington, D.C. into these private entities.
Yeah, I mean, if you actually look at the history of the deep state, I call it the military-industrial-academic complex, this triangle.
President Eisenhower talked about it in his farewell address, and then Fulbright talked about it.
He called it actually the military-industrial academic complex.
Eisenhower called it the military-industrial complex.
That triangle is based on this notion that they're the ones who know better than everyone.
Elizabeth Warren's part of that.
All the establishment is part of that.
What's fascinating is that when you actually look at it, though, for example, innovation or technology, most of the greatest innovations in technology do not come out of the military-industrial complex.
They come from everyday people.
You know, you asked about the invention of email.
You know, a 14-year-old boy is the one who invented the first TV in a small farm in Franklin, Idaho.
A 14-year-old kid invented email.
The narrative that the military-industrial academic complex likes to put forward is that they're the ones that own everything, and that's why we should so much feel happy that we're funding war as well as sickness because that's what they profit from.
And, you know, when you look at Harvard, it's part of that elite industrial complex.
These guys actually do not produce a lot when you really look at it.
What they really learn how to do is to move money around.
Elizabeth Warren's part of that.
She tries to fake what I call she's part of the not-so-obvious establishment, that she cares for the everyday poor black person, poor white person, the working people.
But fundamentally, she exists to make sure those people actually want to change stuff get sucked back into the establishment.
And that's what's so insidious.
You know, it's easy to understand the existing establishment, people like Elizabeth Warren are the more insidious part that are used to basically entrap people to stick on with the establishment.
So, let me only got about a minute and a half left before I got to take a break.
Scott, we'll start with you.
This is all fascinating stuff.
Fascinating that you guys are saying.
Go ahead, Scott.
It is.
It is.
And it's particularly interesting that, you know, that, and I agree with Dr. Shiva that it is, academia is definitely part of that complex.
So it's rather ironic that U.S. academia is one of the leading is in the vanguard of anti-free speech, anti-free speech impetus that we've been seeing across college campuses, not just in Massachusetts, but everywhere else.
And so ironically, they owe a lot of their sources of funding to the government, but yet at the same time, they're creating this PC or they're the leaders of this PC environment that's making it difficult for people to basically exercise their First Amendment rights.
Right.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
So let me ask you this real quick.
About 30 seconds.
We got about 45 seconds.
What do you think, Scott, from an awareness standpoint?
I'm talking about awareness all day today.
What can people do to make themselves more aware of this establishment politics that you, if you've been able to figure it out?
How do you think people can figure this out?
Well, I mean, I guess unfortunately, we've gone down the path where we have to kind of follow the old Soviet model.
You have to read a lot of disparate sources of information to basically get to assemble the picture of reality that you should be viewing.
You can't rely on any one source of information anymore.
So basically, the internet has allowed us now at least we can poke around and access different sources of information to see what is going on around us.
So, Dr. Shiva, the old days are over.
Dr. Shiva, real quick, do you think there's going to be more people that are capable of defeating the Elizabeth Warrens coming forward?
Or do you think it's going to take a while before we get to that point?
Well, in Massachusetts, I'm the only one who actually wants to defeat her and is capable of defeating her.
I put in about $1.1 million of my own money.
But more importantly, we're creating a broad-based movement.
And I think to your earlier question, the biggest way that people can really understand truth from lies is to look at a central principle that nature operates by.
Nature is decentralized.
Nature never likes to centralize things.
And when you start looking at politics and policies, are they for centralization of power?
Are they for decentralization of power back to the people?
It's one of the best ways to start a lens that gives us really the ability to understand truth from lies and the establishment versus the people.
Look at how nature operates.
Wow.
I'll tell you what.
I couldn't ask for two better guests.
Hey, listen, God bless you guys.
And good luck in your candidacies.
And I will always be there to support both of you because you're outside of the box.
Scott Ulinger, congressional candidate for Pennsylvania's 15th district and former CIA operations officer.
And Dr. Shiva Ayadori, aka Dr. Shiva from Massachusetts, running for U.S. Senate Canada against Elizabeth Warren.
Get her out of there.
Thank you, guys.
God bless you.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
You got it.
You got it.
I'll put your stuff out there when we come back.
This is Jonathan Gillum filling in for Sean Hannity on the Sean Hannity Radio Show.
Go get my book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
Follow me on Facebook.
Go friend me or like me on Twitter.
And let's get this conversation going.
We'll be right back.
Good to be back in here day before Thanksgiving.
Hope you guys are safe as you drive down the road and you're listening and increasing your awareness.
I felt it was important to come on here today to get this one shot as people would be driving.
I knew a lot of people would be traveling today or it's their last day at work and they're coming home.
And I couldn't think of a better time before the holidays to really try to train your mind in the reality of what's going on in the world, where the threats are.
They're all around you now, but you don't have to be paranoid.
You can systematically understand and pick out where the critical areas, the critical times for those areas, where the vulnerabilities that could be exploited are, and where the attacker's avenue of approach is.
For instance, you know, mass killings don't usually happen at 3 a.m. when nobody's around.
But you go to an outdoor concert in Las Vegas surrounded by tall buildings where a sniper could shoot down.
That's an easy, identifiable, critical area.
And that time is critical when that's happening.
And I think if promoters, if law enforcement think this way, they'll be able to actually identify where these things could potentially happen.
And then they could go in and actually mitigate these vulnerabilities, such as putting spotters or counter snipers on top of buildings.
I don't know why they didn't have that.
This is something that we can actually do.
Everyday people can do this.
You don't have to be in the military.
You're a SEAL.
You don't have to be in law enforcement.
You can do this yourself.
And I know this has sounded a little bit like an infomercial today, but it's not.
Honestly, I wrote this book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival, so that I could get it in the hands of every American because I want the people in this country to be empowered.
It's gone too long where we've been dependent, where we've been convinced that law enforcement will be there.
They may not be there, but you can identify where the attacks may come from and how to mitigate circumstances.
This is Jonathan Gillum.
I'm going to come back and take some of your calls, and I got a couple of good little stories to tell you about awareness.
So stay tuned.
Go get Sheep No More, the Art of Awareness and Attack Survival on Amazon right now.
We'll be right back.
What's right with America?
You're listening to the Sean Hannity Show.
But today, it's Jonathan Gillum filling in for Sean Hannity, my good friend.
I hope he's having a great Thanksgiving week, along with Linda, as she's out there somewhere in the far west of the East.
She's in the ether, but you know what?
She's like omnipresent.
She's always here.
Even when she's not here.
This is very, very, very true.
Listen, they're two of my heroes.
Sean and Linda are not just incredible powerhouses in the radio field and in the news field, but they're realistically two amazing people that do so much for so many people.
And so I'm very thankful that I met Sean on the set of his show back in 2013.
I'm very grateful and thankful that I got to come over and be a part of this team with Linda and everybody else back there.
It's just a great place to come and be a part of.
So I'm very thankful for that.
Now, I'm going to take a couple of calls here real quick, and then I want to talk about a couple of stories about awareness.
It's going to kind of throw you for a little bit of a loop here because I'm telling you, awareness is one of the biggest, most important things that we have lost in this country.
We just have lost complete awareness.
Before I even go to the callers, though, I do want to say that one of my listeners from my show, somebody who takes part in the dialogue on the experts, I do that every night, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.
And her name is Petya.
She is, I think I'm saying her name right, and she is from Bulgaria.
And she was over there when it was a communist nation.
Some of the stuff that she has to say is incredible.
And like all my other friends that came from communist countries, they see some of the same things going on in this country that they saw over there.
And that's because they're aware of this.
They're aware of the reality of what communism can do.
They're aware of the characteristics of it.
And so they see these things happening.
And anyway, I just wanted to say hello to her son.
I think his name is Merrick Wolf.
And I hope I'm saying your name right, Merrick, is that he wrote a list of who he would want to have at his birthday party, I believe it was.
And I made the list of one of the special guests that he would want to be there.
Although he did put me at number 10.
Thank goodness I made it at number 10 because the list stopped at number 10.
Top 10, that's not bad.
Yeah, I'm right below Mike and a couple other good guys, I guess.
Thank you very much.
Listen, if I can get to Florida, I will make sure that I get there.
And thank you to all my friends and listeners and part of the Constitutional Quick Reaction Force.
That's what the people that follow me and that take part in the dialogue and that stand for the Constitution.
They're part of the hashtag CQRF.
So if you're on Twitter or Facebook, always hashtag CQRF.
There's no membership.
You believe in the Constitution.
You're a part of it.
Let's go to Burbank, California.
Let's go to Rhonda.
Hi there.
Hey, how are you, Rhonda?
You there?
I'm good.
I'm just calling to let your listeners in on a tip that's, I think, helped me a lot to overcome being a victim, and that's just looking at people square in the eye.
If you're walking down the road or the sidewalk or the mall or wherever, when someone's passing you, look them in the eye.
Acknowledge that you see them.
That deters a large percentage of people from attacking you.
Just a simple little look and wave.
Hi, how you doing?
Just anything to knock them off their game because they want to catch you unaware.
And if they see you looking elsewhere and all around, like, oh, I don't see you.
Like, I'm invisible, you're a perfect victim.
You are making yourself a victim.
So just look people in the eye.
That will stop.
And I learned that from the Houston Police Department one time when they came out to give us some safety clues.
You know, it's interesting you say that because I was just watching a video.
I think it was in Miami.
There's a girl walking down the sidewalk, and she actually has a pistol, and she has concealed weapons carry permit, and she had the pistol in her purse, and there's a guy walking across the street right towards her, but she doesn't make eye contact with him, and she's not clutching her purse.
And he comes up, pulls out his own gun, pistol whips her, and steals her purse.
So, you know, you have to be aware.
Just because you make, I know a lot of people, especially in New York, they don't want to make eye contact with people.
But if you're, especially if you're walking down the sidewalk alone, you have that concealed weapon carry permit for a reason, and you should be able to get to it.
But before you even do that, you should be able to identify the person as they're approaching you.
I really don't think she had an idea what was getting ready to come.
Absolutely.
I think the key here is they are looking for a victim.
And if you, just by looking at them and acknowledging, I see you, you're not making yourself a victim anymore.
You've already got the upper hand on them.
They like to attack people when they're surprised.
Right, right.
And a lot of women do this.
You walk down the street, you'll notice a lot of women looking everywhere, but at the person coming towards them.
I don't know why they do that.
It's almost a submissive act.
I don't understand it, but I look at everybody when I'm walking down.
Right, that's good.
That's good.
Hey, listen, God bless you, Rhonda.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
And you got it.
Let's see.
I'm going to take one more call.
I've got to tell a story here real quick.
Let's go to Steve in Illinois.
Go ahead, Steve.
Hi, I'm calling.
I want swift justice.
My formula stops repeat offenders, which is quite often for the American people.
Everything you're talking about sounds well and fine, sir.
But the bottom line that seems never talked about is executing these perpetrators instead of the taxpayer housing and feeding these pieces of garbage.
Good example is the Boston bomber.
He should be hung on national TV or at the very least, put to death in some form or another.
Do you not agree?
Well, I think Texas sets a standard of the way I believe justice should be.
Texas doesn't waste time.
Florida is very similar.
When they identify somebody who's done such a heinous act, they take them out.
They're no longer a citizen of the United States.
They're no longer a citizen of the earth at that point.
But Texas is they're quick with their justice.
Unfortunately, Steve, you live in Illinois, and people in Boston, again, very liberal.
New York, very liberal.
Majority of these large metropolis areas around the country are very liberal and very dependent on the government and on law enforcement.
And so they get into a weird mindset of forgiveness or they get in a weird mindset of twisted morals.
Let's not kill this guy, you know, because it's okay to kill a child in the womb and have an abortion, but we don't want to kill this person that committed this act and literally killed people.
So it's a real weird, twisted type of mentality that's been drilled into a lot of people's heads.
And I really literally think it has a lot to do with the left, and it has a lot to do with the larger cities.
You don't see this in the more rural areas in their way of thinking.
The United States should be united, though.
I totally agree with you.
But here's the problem.
The United States has been subverted by what I believe is communist subversives, and they have worked their way into the educational system, into Hollywood.
They've worked their way, as we were talking about earlier with Dr. Shiva, into the Ivy League schools and all the universities.
They're definitely in the Democratic Party.
I believe they're in the Republican Party as well.
And that's a big problem is that most people are just not aware that communism is still a real thing and that subversion is a real thing.
They're just not aware of it.
And all this stuff, Steve, is just a way to divide us ultimately.
Thank you very much.
You got it.
And God bless you.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
So real quick, before we go to a break here in just a minute, I want to tell everybody this real quick story about awareness off the topic of being attacked.
But here is something, again, in this book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
You can actually use the techniques that I teach in this book to go far beyond just avoiding an attack or being aware of where your threat is.
You can also, if you're in a very dangerous job or if you have certain aspects of your life that may be more dangerous, you can identify those areas by looking the same way of where you're vulnerable, what these critical areas and critical times are.
And in the case of my uncle Fred Goodall, who is one of the most amazing preachers and amazing men that God ever created up in northern Arkansas, and everybody that knows him would say this.
You know, he is an amazing, amazing man who grew up thinking he was a horse, finally decided he was human and decided to become a preacher.
And they got stories about him thinking he was a horse when he was younger.
But he and his wife have been looking after his grandson.
I think it's his great-grandson, Lucas, Lucas Goodall.
Lucas was 11 or is 11.
And this just happened within this month.
My uncle and Lucas were out cutting down some trees on their property.
And my uncle Fred Goodall had taught Lucas at 11 years old how to use a chainsaw.
He bought him a smaller chainsaw so he could practice on this thing.
Again, teaching empowerment to the children, teaching them how to be aware, teaching them that they are capable, fully capable.
So he bought him a smaller chainsaw that he could practice on this thing.
They go out, they're cutting this tree down, and unfortunately, my uncle, he's in his 70s now, still charging hard.
I think he's starting to believe he's a horse again now in the 70s.
The tree collapsed and fell off and fell onto his leg, crushed his leg, and he was trapped under this tree.
Little Lucas, who's been, you know, was trained by my uncle how to use a chainsaw, put his little chainsaw down and grabbed the big chainsaw and cut the tree off of my uncle's leg.
Now, he didn't stop there because once they got a hold of, I don't know the story about how they called for help, but the ambulance could not get down the road because of this tree, I believe is the way I was told this.
And so Lucas helped clear the road with the chainsaw.
11-year-old kid went the distance and literally saved my uncle's life.
Now, unfortunately, my uncle lost his leg.
That's one of the reasons why I went out and got injured.
I didn't want him to feel like he was all by himself in this.
So now I'm in a brace, and now they're going to, I think they're going to put actually a horse leg on where he had his other leg.
So little Lucas, I got to tell you, I salute you.
I think that I salute my uncle and my aunt and the way that you all have taught this young man to be empowered.
And it shows, it shows you can start children from a very young age on how to not just be respectful, not just be well-behaved, but you can teach them how to be powerful at a very young age by giving them the tools.
And in the case of my uncle, he started Lucas off with a smaller chainsaw, made him aware of the dangers of it, made him aware of the power of a chainsaw and how to use it.
And when it came time for him to be tested, it wasn't like my uncle was sitting there saying, okay, I want you to cut a V-notch or a V-notch in here, and I want you to push, you know, this was he had to do this or my uncle was going to die.
And he picked up the big chainsaw and he acted.
And that's the whole premise of this whole book that I've written, Sheep No More, the Art of Awareness and Attack Survival, is that ultimately you, your children, your daughters, your sons, your grandsons in this case, your uncles, your clergymen, your entire congregation in your churches, the people that are in college, even congressmen, congresswomen, senators, even the president of the United States, Mr. Trump, if you're listening,
you can be aware and you can be empowered.
And when this is the case, what's going to happen in this country is that you're going to see things start to change.
Politicians aren't going to be able to lie to you like they have before because you're going to be aware of what reality, what's effective thinking.
You're not just going to give them the tool or the handouts and say, go save this country, because that's not going to happen.
You're going to be able to identify areas where on a daily basis, whether it be your home, your commute to work, whether your children are going to school or homeschooled, whether you're going out to eat or go to some type of a music concert in a stadium and arena, or maybe you work in a tall building, maybe you work in a mall.
You'll be able to identify and you should be able to identify whether you get this book or not.
You should be able to identify where the threats are, what times these threats are the highest, the vulnerabilities that can be exploited, and the attacker's avenue of approach.
All this, all this awareness, if the American people start to embrace what they've been given and are thankful for their freedom and realize that, yeah, you kind of have to earn this, this freedom.
You kind of have to earn your place in life.
If you start to realize this and you become aware and empowered, you're going to see you're going to be a force multiplier for a police department.
You're going to be a force multiplier for your neighbor.
You're going to be a force multiplier for all the first responders and in general for the country.
So it's time for the country, for a citizenry to start serving.
And the way you do that is by gaining awareness, becoming empowered, and stepping up every day to help each other out.
This is Jonathan Gillam.
We're going to come back for the Sean Hannity Radio Show in just a minute.
Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
You can pre-order it at Amazon right now.
We'll be right back.
And tomorrow.
Don't miss one day.
This is the Sean Hannity Show.
This is Jonathan Gillum.
Final stretch here.
I just want to tell everybody, thank you.
Thank you again for having me on.
Have a happy Thanksgiving.
And remember, folks, I've been talking about awareness the entire show.
It is up to you to be a force multiplier in this country for everybody.
And go get this book, Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
I promise you, you will not regret it.
Give it to everybody.
It makes a great birthday present, Thanksgiving present, Christmas presents, New Year's.
Just get it.
You don't even have to have a reason to buy it for a holiday.
Just get it for people that are going away from home or people that you know that may be in a predicament where they could be an attack.
Give it to family, new parents.
This needs to be something that gets in the hands of everyone.
It's on Amazon right now for pre-order.
Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival.
And it will also be available on Kindle and audiobook December 12th.
Audiobook may be a little bit later.
I'll find that out and put that up.
Follow me on Twitter, J Gilliam underscore SEAL, and on Facebook at Jonathan T. Gilliam.
I'll see you guys.
Peace.
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