James O’Keefe, founder of Project Veritas faces off against the Huffington Post's Ryan Grim in a debate over just how vicious liberals have been talking about in their efforts to stop the inauguration services. Grim started off praising O'Keefe but did fall back into his more liberal ways to defend some of the specific stories of planned violence. The Sean Hannity Show is live Monday through Friday from 3pm - 6pm ET on iHeart Radio and Hannity.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Okay, winter is on the way.
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All right, glad you're with us, Sean Hannity Show.
Yep, two days.
It's all over.
It's done.
By the time we get on the air, two days from now, less than 48 hours, Barack Hussein Obama's presidency will be over.
He's in the process of holding his last press conference, and we'll probably get to some of that in the course of the show today.
All right, so all week we've been telling you about this ongoing sting operation by Project Veritas and James O'Keefe.
And then we had this article come out by the Washington Bureau chief of the Huffington Post.
Guy's actually not a bad guy.
Ryan Grimm.
He's been on the program before.
And Ryan Grimm counter sting catches O'Keefe Network attempting to sow chaos at Donald Trump's inauguration.
The stinger gets stung.
And the only problem is, and I looked at the little bit of video that they had put out there on this.
It was not the same operation.
Totally different.
And perhaps it was conflated.
I don't know.
We'll get to the bottom of it.
And we'll have a Hannity Classic shootout coming up in the second hour of today's program, a little less than one hour from right now.
And we hope you can join us for that.
We have the issue of Chelsea Manning and the commutation by President Obama and why he did this.
No, I don't want a bit of Obama alive.
Nobody, no.
Why do you do this at the beginning of the show?
You interrupt me.
You talk in my ear.
How am I supposed to continue my monologue?
Go ahead, put your microphone on.
What do you want to say?
I wasn't interrupting you.
My job is to alert you when there is breaking news.
Okay, I'm telling a few of the 550 stations that are carrying this radio program right now, not one of them wants to carry Obama's press conference.
I did not say that anybody wanted to dip into the stupid press conference for 30 seconds so I don't lose my audience.
Folks in other countries.
So I use that as a metaphor.
And if, in fact, we continue to keep opportunity open to everybody, we had the speech.
We had the Michelle speech.
We have the speech, the speech, the speech.
And he can't tell the truth about how bad he was anyway.
Goodbye.
You know what's going to happen to him?
I'll go into this.
He is going to get off the stage.
And this is my opening monologue on TV tonight.
I tried in so many different interviews with George W. Bush to get him to take a shot back at Obama because Obama, remember the early years of the Obama presidency, Bush, Bush's fault, Bush's fault.
And I do this whole thing on stage.
If the dog bites you, it's not the dog's fault.
It's not your fault for ripping the bone out of the dog's mouth.
If you're a dopey liberal, it's George W. Bush's fault.
You know, if you take a baseball bat and you knock down a wasp nest, it's not the wasp's fault you get stung.
It's not, you know, the fact that you were too stupid to hire an exterminator, so that can't be your fault.
And you expected a government extermination service, so you're a liberal and you want everything for free.
No, that would be George Bush's fault.
You drink too much Jack Daniels and you have a hangover the next day, or Budweiser or whatever the hell it is.
You drink or win.
If you're a Whino and you wake up the next morning and you have a headache, it's it's not your fault.
It's not Jack Daniels' fault, that's Bush's fault.
Seriously, if you get pregnant, it's not your fault.
That's probably Bill Clinton's fault.
Actually, I don't think I blame that sucker on George Bush.
It's ridiculous and every time I'd ask Bush he'd have too much class.
Obama's not.
I'm predicting he's not gonna have that much class.
You got to understand something.
This man is headed for the most difficult time in his life.
He is, and I know he's gonna try and make it up and go out and give speeches.
It's never gonna be the same again.
He's not gonna have the same environment.
He won't be the president anymore and what he's gonna have a hard time dealing with is Donald Trump, who has said today that he is gonna undo all these illegal, unconstitutional executive actions because Obama didn't have the wherewithal or the political courage to go out there as a co-equal branch of government working with the legislative branch to pass legislation the way it should be passed.
He just ruled through executive fiat and executive orders and he's come up and it's costing us billions and billions and even trillions of dollars in new regulations etc.
And Donald Trump is going to sit there for a few hours.
He's either going to do it on Friday or he'll do it Monday and he's going to wipe out 75% of everything Obama did, and Obama's going to know it and he's not going to be able to handle it.
I predict he'll go into a deep depression.
I really do.
I don't think he's going to be able to cope.
And then, when you, when Obamacare is repealed and replaced his signature legislation, he's not going to be able to handle that either.
That's 90% of.
It's almost like he'll be the man that never was.
Everything will vanish in seconds and he'll know it and it'll drive him insane.
It will.
And he's not going to be able to shut up.
He's not going to go away and show the same class that George W. Bush showed him and the same respect that George W. Bush showed him, and he's going to be on the campaign trail constantly, because that's the only thing he liked while being president anyway was the adoration.
So and the accoutrements, if you will, that accompany such a high position, like flying in Air Force One to Hawaii and sending your wife on a separate plane and flying on your own plane.
To where did he go?
Nantucket, whatever the island he went to, Martha's, Martha's Vineyard, wherever he went.
And then, of course, Michelle following later in another plane, and we pay him for the whole thing.
Paid a fortune for them to live the high life.
Now, he's going to get rich.
He's going to go out and do speeches and make a lot of money, et cetera, et cetera.
But the truth is, it will be, he's like the president that never existed.
He'll be like the only thing we have left is the doubling of our national debt, him accumulating more debt than every president before him combined, and the horrible judicial picks that have lifetime appointments.
Beyond that, there's nothing left.
It'll all be wiped away because he couldn't deal doing it the right way, the constitutionally prudent way.
And he tried to govern and rule as a king with executive fiat and executive orders.
You know, too bad he's not going to be back community organizing in his hometown of Chicago where 4,000 people, mostly African Americans, were killed during the course of his presidency and maybe get on the ground and try and stop the violence in his home city of Chicago.
He's not going to do anything like that.
He cares so much.
He's going to Palm Springs.
That's where he's going.
Palm Springs, California.
Or a little restaurant.
West and We Waxation.
We ought to have a pool.
How soon it's going to be when he leaves office until he begins the process of unloading on Trump.
We really should do a pool.
I don't know.
How do we do a pool like that on Hannity.com?
Can we do that?
Could you figure that out?
Well, then we're going to have more people, but then people have to pay money.
Then that's betting.
The only people that are allowed to have gambling operations is the government.
We could do a poll.
That's not as good as my idea.
I mean, I participate with the Chris and Tony football poll every football pool every year.
No, there is no money associated with it.
Yeah, there is.
But, you know, think about this.
The government has a monopoly on gambling and lotto and lottery.
And what if I wanted to compete in New York and start my own lotto system?
And I'll say, okay, 5% will benefit the children and education.
I'll do it the same way the government does.
If I set that up, that would be called illegal.
And they'd handcuff me, perp walk me, and mug shoot me and send me to prison with Bubba.
And that's where I'd spend the rest of my years, probably.
It's ridiculous.
So anyway, so we have the Chelsea Manning issue also coming up.
We'll probably delve into that in the course of the program today.
But anyway, so this conflict that was going on, we're going to have James O'Keefe debating Ryan Grimm on this whole thing.
But this is what we now know.
We now know there are tapes of people that are talking about this disrupt J-20 group.
They're on tape saying that they want to chain individual cars to trains at every train location to shut down the D.C. Metro service.
When no, they're on record saying they want to shut down at least one bridge they want to shut down.
They have plans, anarchists, J-20 groups planning protests in the city nationwide on Friday.
The D.C. ones will get the most attention.
And, you know, then on top of it, there's an audio tape of them saying, oh, we want to burn down people's houses and we're going to go to war with you.
And we want to put buraric acid in the HVAC ducts to ruin the parties that people are going to and disrupt the balls that people are going to.
And it even gets worse than that.
You know, the group Anonymous is out there.
They've threatened that Donald Trump will regret the next four years as president.
They're urging their followers to investigate his past for shady connections ahead of what's happening on Friday.
The group which declared, quote, total war on Donald Trump ahead of the election last year and now calling on supporters to look for any information they can reveal about him.
It then threatened you're going to regret the next four years.
Allegations aren't substantiated, and it's not clear what the actions anonymous followers will take, but it certainly is a call to arms to do something more than just complaining.
These are the exact words.
Go get him.
It's your duty as adults.
We gave you the resources.
Use them, said Anonymous on one of its affiliated Twitter accounts.
The threat came after Trump tweeted that the outgoing CIA chief, John Brennan, couldn't do much worse.
Just look at Syria, the Red Line, Crimea, Ukraine, and the buildup of Russian nukes.
Not good.
Anyway, Anonymous, this group has made good, by the way, on their threats to Trump in the past.
After declaring war on President-elect Trump back in March of 2016, a series of leaks purported to be from Trump's phone were spread online, dubbed Op White Rose, it called.
Information included voicemails and telephone numbers.
At the same time, unverified personal details, including phone number and contact details of close aides, were posted online.
2015, the group also brought down the Trump Tower New York website after Trump for a brief period and leaked further personal voicemails in protest of his rhetoric towards Muslims.
Controversial groups, including the Klan, the Islamic State, have also been victims of Anonymous, which, by the way, I can't fault them for that.
I hate those hate groups.
So, but, you know, John Kerry, he's not going.
60 congressmen, they're not going to the inauguration.
Chuck Schumer offering his support for these people.
I respect where inauguration boycotters are coming from.
They have so many irregularities.
What is he talking about?
Washington Post, you know, think of the outrage of this.
Never Trump Republicans are whining they can't get a job at the new Trump White House.
Oh, let me just, let me hire you tomorrow.
You don't agree with anything that he stands for.
What's the point?
You know, Rand Paul's also right by saying somebody should go to jail for the Trump Intel leaks.
You know what I retweeted today?
We had Martin Luther King Jr. holiday on Monday, the FBI letter telling Martin Luther King Jr. that they've got all this dirt on him and his personal life, and that they're going to reveal it and expose it, and they basically tell him to kill himself to not have it exposed.
So disgusting.
But don't worry, that's government of, by, and for the people.
And the Intel community can't be wrong.
Intel community, by the way, James Clapper once had to admit he outright lied to Congress.
I can only imagine what would happen if I lied to Congress.
Anyway, 800-941-Sean Tolfrey telephone number.
You want to be a part of the program?
We've got a lot of other news today, but you don't want to miss this second hour of the program with James O'Keefe and Ryan Grimm, the Washington Bureau chief of the Huffington Post.
This is going to get interesting.
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All right, 25 now till the top of the hour.
I'm really glad when I read this today that Justice Clarence Thomas will become the first African American to administer the oath of office, and he'll be using Reagan's Bible.
I was hoping this would happen.
I just secretly was hoping.
I've met Clarence Thomas on a couple of occasions.
By the way, he has one of those infectious, really great laughs of all time.
I mean, very, very warm, wonderful person.
Was very generous to me on the occasions that I met him.
I last saw him, I think, at Russia's wedding some years ago.
And I spent a lot of time talking to him then.
I really enjoyed my time with him.
And I think he's one of the great Supreme Court justices in our time.
And anyway, Pence will be the first elected official to be sworn in on the Reagan family Bible since the late president used it during his inaugurations.
And from what I hear, the Bible will be open to the same passage that Reagan used during his inaugurations, which is Chronicles 7.14, which is, if my people, which are called by name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Well, the presidents are sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
Vice presidents have been sworn in at a variety of elected officials, including Joe Biden, sworn in by Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
I think that's pretty cool.
It's a great honor for Justice Thomas and one well deserved, as he's been a victim of such unfair abuse over the years by the left, starting with his confirmation hearings.
Trump is going to order the State Department to focus on terrorism instead of global warming.
And he's going to tell them to start using the word radical Islam.
These people at the State Department, they're the same people that are going through these stress management classes and how to learn how to deal with change.
If you can't deal with this, you might as well get out of the way.
Anyway, Donald Trump has ratcheted up the State Department's role in the war on terror, which, you know, you think maybe instead of giving a rip about what the UN thinks and giving a rip about what countries that hate us think and coming up with ridiculous plans to give the number one state sponsor of terror, you know, billions of our tax dollars, maybe it's time for them to focus on what their real job should be.
Anyway, the Trump team wants to restructure the State Department to focus more heavily on counterterrorism.
Well, that would reduce the time and resources devoted to climate change.
Why is the State Department involved in climate change?
What are you going to negotiate with China about their carbon emissions?
Good luck with that.
We don't have any say in what they're going to do, and anything they promise is meaningless anyway.
And we're the only idiots that pay for all of this in the end because we're the only ones that comply with this stupidity.
Anyway, they talk to State Department.
Officials have been convinced, the president-elect's transition team, that the department is underutilized, overshadowed by the Pentagon and the White House National Security Council, which have typically taken the lead on the counterterrorism front.
How about all hands on deck until we defeat ISIS, al-Qaeda, and radical Islamists around the world?
And when you think about terrorism, which we think about a lot today, poverty, which is linked, obviously, to the levels of terror that we see in the world today, and of course, proliferation of weapons and mass destruction, all of these.
Just turn it off.
He's going to talk about climate.
Don't go to the inauguration, John.
I've voted for the $87 million before I voted against it.
He's one of these guys that considers himself the great intellectual.
You know, I've met many, many journalist professors.
They couldn't do this show for a day if their life depended on it.
They couldn't do a TV show for a night if their life depended on it.
You know, there is something that is underutilized in a lot of people's lives.
Education is great.
Knowledge is awesome.
If you can apply knowledge to principles that you support in your life, and if you can apply the knowledge to the common sense God gave you, there is intuitive, natural knowing.
I have found myself in situations in life, and I'm not anti-intellectual at all.
As a matter of fact, I love education.
I study now more at this point in my life than I have my entire life.
On a year's basis, I will read and study more than I did in my entire college experience, which was three years.
You know, I will study more in three months than I ever spent time studying in high school.
It's just the reality of what my life is.
I literally read a book a day when you consider the pile that Sweet Baby James brings me in the newspapers that I go through every day.
It is the equivalent of a book.
I am the fastest reader you'd ever meet because I have to be because that's my job.
But I have met people that have all of this intellectual knowledge, very, very bright people that they can't even figure out how to put gasoline in their car.
I'm serious.
I know a kid that went to Yale and couldn't figure out how to put gas in his car.
I know kids, I know people that are so smart.
And when I tell them, I'll give you an example.
People that are even in, I know people that are so smart intellectually that when I give them business ideas, they're like, they can't believe that I thought of it.
I'm like, that's common sense to me.
What are you missing here?
And everybody's got their own gifts.
Don't misunderstand me.
I'd love, you know, if I had time in my life, I'd love to study to be a doctor now.
I really would.
I'm fascinated with operations.
If I had time in my life, I'd become a lawyer, too.
If I had time in my life, I would become, I'd study all the time.
I'd study all the great philosophers.
Once again, I once in my life, when I didn't have a TV for a number of years, I read all the Harvard classics, Dante's Inferno, and Pilgrim's Progress and all these great books.
And I studied them.
I actually figured out, you know, what they meant.
I'd go deeper into what the meanings of these books were.
You know, read the Bible.
Well, the New Testament.
Haven't gotten through the Old Testament.
Just reading this stuff.
And then I meet people that are so learned, so many degrees that on basic, simple tasks in life are so dumb.
I can't, they don't even know how to buy a car.
They don't know a good deal on a house.
If it hit them over the head with a two by four, they wouldn't know it.
And I'm stunned by that.
So I think that, you know, in life, once you have a set of core principles and once you have a natural common sense that guides you in your day-to-day decision-making, then whatever knowledge you add to that only makes you that much smarter and stronger.
The knowledge that comes in is applied to principles and applied to common sense.
And for common sense, it's not so common anymore.
So many people that are very smart fall prey to the same bumper sticker, slogans, demonization, classification of conservatives every election year.
They fall right into the trap and they actually believe we're evil if we're conservative.
They believe that.
Anyway, Nikki Haley is planning to blast Obama for his anti-Israeli vote when she goes to the UN.
Biden is warning Davos and Switzerland that the liberal world order is collapsing.
Globalism is on the decline.
They're upset about that.
Then we have Obama granting clemency to terrorists who helped plant over 100 bombs.
This is an interesting story.
The last imprisoned member of the Puerto Rican independence group actually have this video on tape.
Back in the 70s will be a free man by May, 20 years ahead of schedule.
He's granted a commutation to the FALN mastermind, Oscar Lopez Rivera, who served 35 years of his 55-year sentence.
And during the 70s and 80s, Lopez Rivera was part of the FALN, which placed more than 130 bombs in American cities, including one in New York on January 24th, 1975.
The explosion went off in the Business Française tavern during lunch.
Four people died, including Frank Conner, a 33-year-old father.
I know the media has more focused on Chelsea Manning, but that's pretty big to me.
GOP, rightly so, is going ballistic.
All this talk about, you know, there's a reason that Obama never talked about the White House being hacked while he's president, the DOD being hacked while he's president, the State Department, the Postal Service, the IRS, the Office of Personal Management, 23 million personnel files hacked by the Chinese.
He never mentions it.
Why?
Because it goes against the narrative that he actually cares about hacking, and he doesn't, because if he did, well, then he would have done something about it.
Anyway, I think, oh, Trump is using, I think he's using Lincoln's personal Bible.
That's pretty interesting.
I'm glad Clarence Thomas is going to be there.
I think that's awesome.
Good for him.
He deserves it.
He really does.
Such a nice guy.
So glad I got to meet him.
Obama gets a minus 9% final grade from the public.
Well, Ed Klein confirms what I've been saying.
He has a source inside the White House that had slept in the Lincoln bedroom, dined with the Obama family in the residence, got regular updates on what's going on since the election.
Anyway, he says that his source is saying Barack can't wait to get out of the White House.
It's now the grimmest place in the world.
The atmosphere is funereal.
Everybody looks like they lost their best friend and their dog.
Barack's supposed to be cheering people up, but he can barely muster a smile.
He knows there's nothing much he can do to make his staff feel any better, and it's getting worse with Trump rolling out his cabinet picks.
And they portray him as an angry, deeply hurt, depressed Obama who can't get over his party's defeat in the polls, and he's taking it as a personal rebuke by the American people.
That's only going to get worse.
I promise you, that's going to get much worse before all is said and done.
Let's see.
What else do we got here today?
Yeah, Trump is going to be sworn in on two special Bibles.
And let's see.
One is going to be his own family given to him by his mother.
The other will be Lincoln's Bible.
And Clarence Thomas is going to do it for him.
Donald Trump, thank God.
Why are Republicans offering this now that they have both houses of Congress?
Trump is saying we need a 10% spending cut.
That's what we need.
And a 20% cut of federal workers.
No offense, but we need that too.
We don't get that.
There's been one little thing.
Apparently, President Obama offered at POTUS to Trump, but they only have 6.5 million followers, and Trump has 13.5 million followers.
He's going to keep at real Donald Trump.
A hidden CNN poll, the Washington Examiner pulled up.
The headline on the CNN poll is, confidence drops in Trump transition inside the poll.
Well, only Queen Elizabeth and Pope Francis have a higher approval rating than President-elect Trump, according to Americans asked to consider the world leaders.
That's pretty interesting happening today.
Ariana now is in the sleep business, and Ariana Huffington is pushing the idea that if Donald Trump got eight hours sleep and put his phone off, that'd be a much better president in the next four years.
You got to give Ariana credit because there's nothing she's not going to be able to sell.
She'll go out there.
She'll turn anything into that.
Anyway, President-elect Trump will be met with an unsustainable government spending.
Let me just tell you one little quick thing.
And there were a couple of articles that woke me up to this today that Sweet Baby James had handed to me, and I said, you know, this makes a lot of sense to me.
And one was a town hall piece, and now the left's war on normal Americans truly begins.
United We Fall was in the American Thinker.
And I read both these articles, and I put it with my own thoughts, and this is what I've come up with.
Every effort by the snowflakes to insult Donald Trump is really an attack on you.
Every effort to stop his Supreme Court appointments, his vetting ideas, his rolling back regulation and the bureaucracy, lowering corporate taxes, repatriating multinational corporations, eliminating Obamacare, replacing it with health savings accounts, energy independence, education back to the states, immigration building the wall.
Everything is going to be met with a fierce, unprecedented resistance and a rhetoric that you probably have never heard before.
And I know you think you've heard a lot from the snowflakes, and they're still ongoing, and it's going to be, I guess, at its height in the next two days, and we'll be down in Washington for the next two days.
But I'm just telling you, this is not stopping.
Every single one of those agenda items, which he keeps reinforcing, he is going to pursue.
Now, Ray.
I don't care how big the building is, it's closing.
It's staying closed for a while.
And this stuff is very efficient.
It's very, very smelly, last a long time.
A little bit goes a long way.
I know, I'm trying to think through how to get all this group of rubber.
There's usually a piece of beautiful metal or a piece of glad hole liquid in it.
It'll blow.
The message has to be that, you know, we do not recognize the city government either.
If you try to close this down, we will look for your house.
We will burn it.
We will physically fight the police if we try to clear one of our places.
We will go to war and you will lose.
I mean, it would be really interesting if you could stop them from having more.
I was thinking of things that ruin the evening, you know, ruin their outputs or otherwise make it impossible to continue with their plans.
Make sure they get nothing accomplished.
Well, if you repeat the original plan with the new plan, if you bore that same stuff, then I can break the pins with a blender and ship load of bands and a safety pin thing.
So all you got to do is pull the pin and press the button and the whole pin discharge.
This is why we have to brainstorm it.
What do we do?
And that will accomplish the mission.
So that is bad enough.
That stuff is nasty enough that it will spread.
It will spread.
One person's going to shot by them.
On the other hand, I will be done.
It takes 15 seconds and everyone can leave.
So clearly, you can't go anywhere.
You can't go against them.
And you can use a roof in chain in chain.
That requires a bolt cutter to undo.
Basically, shut down that lawn.
Heroin's videos hit.
That just in our gallery place and off of boss.
They're all close enough to walk shooting, and that's every single line of seen.
A significant number of us, up to a dozen that we've talked to so far at least, expressed interest in arrestable action, civil disobedience.
But the agreement that we left Sunday on was we're not going to do that unless, as you pointed out, it's actually effective.
It's actually, we're not just looking to get a notch to say we got arrested.
We want to do it so we can have an impact.
All right, we continue our story, hour two of the Sean Hannity show, James O'Keefe, Project Veritas, and some of the tapes that they got this week.
This group that is out there that is involved and threatening to do all sorts of things, burning down houses and stopping trains and bridges and buraric acid at balls that they'll get into the HVAC system.
And this is a group of people called Disrupt J-20, the J-20 group, and a lot of things that have been made.
Now, as soon as we aired the first report, Ryan Grimm, who is the Washington Bureau chief for the liberal Huffington Post, made the claim that there was actually a counter sting operation going on against James O'Keefe and that these things apparently were said for his benefit and an accusation that, in fact, James O'Keefe's people were offering money to shut down a bridge.
In other words, inciting people to say these things.
Now, when James O'Keefe got his video on tape, he did take it to the D.C. Metro Police because this was seemingly a terroristic style threat.
If you're going to use this acid and get it in the HVAC ducts, or you're going to try and chain cars of trains and you're going to stop bridges and you're threatening to burn people's homes down.
And they took it very seriously.
The Secret Service, the Metro D.C. police, the FBI, all are investigating, apparently.
Anyway, so we decided to bring these two together, James O'Keefe, founder of Project Veritas, and Ryan Grimm.
And James is very passionate about the fact that they're talking about two very different operations that were going on, and that Ryan Grimm is talking about another case.
James, why don't you explain it in your own words?
Thank you, Sean, for having me on.
This is pretty straightforward.
These individuals met with our journalists at a restaurant in D.C. after two months of developing relationships with them.
And they told us that they wanted to put acid in the vent shafts.
They talked about how they want to harm people with cold water from the sprinklers being set off.
They went on to talk about other plans involving putting chains on metro trains, punching people in the throat, and generally causing what they call a cluster F.
We established relationships with them over the course of a few weeks.
And after this meeting on December 18th, they sent a number of follow-up emails where they CC'd not only our undercover journalists, but all the other people involved.
There were literally 100 people involved in these group training sessions and discussions in shutting down the inaugural events.
So the notion of a reverse sting in this case with these individuals, Disrupt J-20, Scott Green, and Colin Dunn and Luke Kuhn, is utterly implausible, not just to me, but to the FBI, the Secret Service, and the Counterterrorism Task Unit, who, as I speak, is meeting discussing this, and we've confirmed much of the information they already had.
Ryan, are you talking about a separate sting operation?
I think so.
And I don't get the opportunity to say this very often, so I want to take it right here.
I completely agree with James O'Keefe.
What he is describing is a separate operation, as far as I can tell.
I wasn't, when I wrote my story about the counter sting, I wasn't actually even aware that he was stinging this other group, this J-20 group of whatever you'd call them, anarchists and communists who are planning to disrupt the convention.
So James is absolutely correct.
So actually, are you praising James O'Keefe's work here?
Hey, take it for how it sounds.
By the way, is this the same Ryan Grimm that constantly took shots at me after I had you as a guest on this program?
Is that the same guy?
Are you sure it's you?
Are you drinking today?
When did I ever take a shot at you, Sean?
I have missed you greatly since I was last on.
No, but so, look, I think then what you're saying is what I guess James and I agree on here.
If you're talking about putting acid in the HVAC ducts, if you're talking about burning down people's homes, if you're talking about tying chains to trains in the D.C. railway, and you're talking about blocking bridges, and you're talking about we'll go to war, that is something that you wouldn't support at the Huffington Post or personally.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, I do think we want to be careful about kind of undermining what people who have.
Well, let me then ask you the follow-up question.
Do you think James O'Keefe did good work here, then?
Yeah, I think this is probably good work.
I think my only criticism of it, and I think it is good work.
I think he went in there, and I think he probably did accurately expose what was going on there.
My only criticism would be it's a group called Disrupt the Inauguration or whatever the name is, Disrupt Justice.
Disrupt J20, yeah.
Disrupt J20.
They are very publicly saying that they're going to engage in direct action, which is lefty code word for civil disobedience, breaking laws in order to get arrested, in order to create a disturbance and try to shut down whatever operation is going on.
So I do think he did good work.
I think it's interesting to see the inner workings of a group like this.
Is there a possibility?
But I don't think it exposed any hypocrisy, if you know what I mean.
Is there a possibility because of his work, lives could be saved?
Lives could be saved.
Well, maybe, right?
Or injuries prevented?
Let's all hope, right?
Yeah.
Well, James, I didn't particularly expect that from Ryan Grimm today.
I expected a big argument and a fight.
There goes my whole show.
You could talk about the other one if you wanted.
Well, we'll get to that in a second.
What's your reaction to what Ryan's saying, James?
I'm not surprised, Sean.
I think that I don't know Ryan.
I haven't spoken to Ryan since he's been on this program, but I think any self-respecting reporter looking at the evidence here, we've laid out the evidence.
The FBI, Secret Service, and members of the D.C. Metro Police were, when we met with them, and I have a little bit of news to report on your show, Sean, that the U.S. Attorney's Office called our attorney late last night, and my attorney again met with this terrorism joint task force today, and they told us that they're revisiting the matter, and they're analyzing the tape.
And they also said to us, which Ryan now agrees with, this was definitely not a counter sting.
They looked at the body language, they looked at the evidence, looked at the emails.
To them, this was not even close to a counter sting.
This is certainly something they were all planning.
So I'm not shocked by Ryan's agreement.
The evidence is clear.
These guys are planning this, and you might see an arrest made.
You might see it.
You know, as your attorney put out there, I mean, look, I would not be surprised at some point if a group wants to do a reverse thing on you, James, because of the work that you've done and the success you've had and the people you've exposed.
And I could see that happening anytime.
But, you know, the fact that all of this information that these people would known by law enforcement, as you said, and the things that they're talking about, there's nothing funny here.
What I'm hearing here is a bunch of anarchists plotting, scheming, and planning to bring not just disruption, but potential harm to people.
And, you know, I know liberals maybe have a different philosophical belief than me, but I was the one that always said during the Obama years, we have got to protect our president.
We have got to protect our elected officials.
And I really, really think I believe in the peaceful transfer of power.
And I think these threats now exist equally for Donald Trump.
And that scares me, too, because we've got to, as I've said all during the Obama years, protect these guys.
Well, when we met with the government, they said they were aware that these individuals, Legba, Carifor, Luke Kuhn are their names.
Legba talked about chaining the trains.
Luke Kuhn talked about burning houses down and putting acid in the shafts.
The FBI was aware that they were actually planning these activities.
They were aware of this, and they thanked us.
And I'm going to quote the brief here.
Our information was deemed, quote, helpful and, quote, confirmed some of the intelligence these agents had already received.
I'm glad to hear that.
All right, so let's go.
I think our journalism confirms and corroborates what the law enforcement agencies.
I could be creating the greatest partnership in the history of media with James O'Keefe and the Huffington Post.
So what is your complaint, Ryan, about this other issue or the other counter-sting article you were writing about?
And actually, if we want to bring a little conflict into the first one and salvage that part of it, I would.
By the way, I'm only listening.
If people are safe enough because of this, I'm really happy.
I would quibble with the throat punching thing.
James may not know this, but throat punching is kind of a word that 90-pound guys use to pretend that they're going to annoy somebody.
Let's go do some throat punching.
Anybody who says that they're going to throat punch somebody.
But if you add that to burning down people's homes.
We've got to put it in its context.
So what is your disagreement?
So I didn't.
Well, just to suggest that this 90-pound kid was actually going to punch somebody in the throat.
That was my only disagreement.
But, you know, he's on tape saying it, so it's, you know, no fault of James is there.
That's the only context I would add.
On the separate one, I didn't really have any complaint with anything that Project Veritas was doing, but this was a really fascinating little situation where you had, and I presume Allison Moss was recording the exchange as well, the Project Veritas operative.
You had two people sitting at a restaurant filming each other, each one trying to get the other to say incriminating things so that they could expose the other.
All right, stop right there.
Hang on.
James, do you agree with that assessment or no?
Yeah, I think that's generally true.
Allison is one of our reporters.
She was actually, you know, yes, she was wearing a hidden camera, but she was just asking questions about what do you guys have planned.
You know, she was acting like Ryan would act if Ryan was at the Huffington Post.
This, by the way, what we're talking about now is a completely separate thing, a completely separate group a few weeks ago that Ryan uncovered.
Last question, did she offer money to shut down a bridge?
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
This is a cat and mouse thing.
That was in Ryan's piece.
All right, we'll pick it up there when we get back.
800-941, Sean James O'Keefe, and Ryan Grimm.
800-941, Sean is a number.
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All right, 25 till the top of the hour.
We continue our discussion from the last half hour.
James O'Keefe, the founder of Project Veritas, Ryan Grimm, who is the Washington Bureau Chief of the Huffington Post, I was expecting a big fight in the last hour based on an article that Grimm had written in the Huffington Post,
but we're able to all come to agreement that James O'Keefe's work about this disrupt J-20 group that he got on tape talking about things like chaining train cars at the station at the D.C. Metro and shutting down the entire train transportation system in D.C. and stopping people from going over bridges and dropping acid in the HVAC system and burning down people's homes and going to war with people.
Even Ryan Grimm thinks that this was pretty good work, which is pretty interesting.
And then it led to a wider discussion about journalism in America today.
And if you look at the approval ratings of journalism and the mainstream media in particular, Ryan, what do we see?
We see that they are, their believability and trustworthiness is at an all-time low.
We learned through WikiLeaks that there was massive collusion from many networks and many publications with the Hillary Clinton campaign, even the right to edit pieces in the New York Times or Politico or questions fed to Hillary before town hall events, and it gets worse from there.
You know, we saw Martha Raditz crying.
She had moderated a debate once it was announced that Donald Trump became president.
John Harwood bragging that he got under Trump's skin and he obviously had a bias and all this was revealed.
And I think this is now the state of new journalism.
And by the way, I would include the Huffington Post in this and the Matt Drudge in the Drudge Report.
And then we've got Project Veritas that in many ways has gone back to old-style journalism, which is going undercover and breaking stories the way they have.
And it's had a big impact in the election and it's having a big impact now.
And then there's people that hate talk radio like Obama and hate the Fox News channel like Obama.
And Obama attacked me by name at least a dozen times.
And then you have your colleagues in the mainstream media.
I don't consider you mainstream though, Ryan, to be honest.
I consider you.
I take that as a compliment.
Well, I consider you pretty hard left.
I mean, your paper was talking about, or online Huffington Post was talking about how Donald Trump's not a legitimately elected president.
That's ridiculous to me.
But you have an opinion.
You have a readership.
You have, I guess, a constituency that you're appealing to, and you have every right to do it.
I appreciate that.
And maybe Obama will change his opinion now that he's in retirement and has more time to listen to talk radio in the afternoon.
I tend to think he's got better things to do than listen to me talk about how horrific his eight years have been.
No way.
Well, I can give you the statistics.
I can give you the statistics.
But I guess let's go back to 60 Minutes for just a second, James O'Keefe.
Do you remember Mike Wallace?
I mean, I know Chris, and Mike Wallace was probably the best at it.
60 Minutes built their reputation doing this on a regular basis.
Yes.
Yes, Sean, I mean, I'm very young.
I was born in the mid-80s, but yes, I remember I've looked at the videos, I've read history because I read the history of journalism, and I see that they used to confront corporate CEOs.
They used to go in, some called it yellow journalism, but they used to go in and used to make people shake in their boots.
And there just hasn't been that habit over the last eight years.
And, Sean, I've been on your program a number of times.
I've been served criminal grand jury subpoenas.
I've been harassed by my government.
Eric Holder came after me after we did the voter fraud in New Hampshire.
I can tell you story after story about power coming after us, but I would go a step further than what Ryan said about you said Ryan is opinionated in his journalism.
At Veritas, we don't even state opinions.
We just show things.
We show the reality.
We have to take this stuff because no one would believe me otherwise.
I don't editorialize.
I don't use adjectives to describe things.
And the American people are upset at journalists, in my opinion, because they read these articles and they're so slanted.
They use flowery language to describe events.
Veritas just goes in and films the stuff.
And we let people speak in their own words.
And we need more.
And don't you usually also release the unedited version as well on your website?
Yeah, we sometimes do.
Sometimes we have to be careful about revealing our undercover people or revealing our sources.
But no journalist in their right mind, this is another way they hold me to a higher standard, releases their full raw notebooks.
If they did, if the New York Times did, if CNN did, if CBS did, you would see a different story.
That's why Katie Curric got sued for defamation when she edited that video where they showed the gun people reacting and they were all quiet and confused.
When you looked at the raw, they immediately responded.
So journalists cut and edit and mince words and use hyperbole to obviously.
By the way, you know, who cuts every interview up is 60 minutes.
They never air the entire interview.
Sometimes they'll add it now to 60 minutes online, other parts, but it's still edited.
And I usually try to do, I try to do sometime for the constraints of time.
I have to cut this or that out, but I try and air my interviews as they are.
Yeah, people want access to raw, unfiltered information, and social media is allowing that to happen.
That's why Facebook and Twitter have 70% of the market share right now.
And we're not yet at the tipping point, but we're reaching a tipping point where at some point people are just going to say, I don't believe you, to the television.
And they're going to go right.
They want to see the raw information.
That's why Veritas is successful.
But, Sean, you and I both know that many mainstream media platforms are scared to give air to these stories because they're just that effective.
Listen, I get in trouble just for putting you on the air.
I mean, people don't, my audience doesn't particularly like Ryan Grimm, but I'm putting him on the air.
Ryan, why didn't you, when your story came out, the counter sting catches James O'Keefe Network attempting to sow chaos at Trump's inauguration, the stinger gets stung.
When you put that out and then you saw the way it was being interpreted, why didn't you speak out how his story was being misconstrued in the public and that this was a separate issue and a separate example?
Well, the first I'm hearing that these were presumed to be the same thing as you're not hearing it for the first time.
You know what the subject matter was before you came on the air.
No, no, no, I know the subject matter.
I didn't know that people were conflating the J-20 and the whatever you would want to call the other one that I wrote about, the ATA.
As I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, it came out, your latest one came out on Monday.
Is that right, James?
That's correct.
Right.
So Monday, I was off Monday.
Here's where I would, Sean, not argue, but Ryan, I think you knew that people were conflating the two.
In fact, some of these corporate media entities are using your article currently as the reason not to air the story.
And the fact that you're on Sean Sprogam right now, clearing the air, saying there's nothing to do with one or the other, that changes the game.
I agree with you that that is a game changer because I know for a fact that people were conflating the two issues.
Let me tell you.
I would have cleared that up on Twitter if I thought that was.
Let me expand this into the decision.
I guess you can tweet it out right after this.
But after Obama and his decision on Chelsea Manning to commute the sentence, now, again, I mentioned the Pentagon papers some time ago.
Okay, so he's going to commute the sentence.
How does this impact in both of your minds Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, which all they did was print what was handed to them?
Is that any different from what the New York Times did with the Pentagon papers?
Your thoughts, Ryan Grimm.
The big problem that they have always had with Julian Assange is they called it the New York Times problem because the New York Times cooperated with WikiLeaks in publishing a lot of the Manning materials, it would be very difficult for them to go after Assange without also going after the New York Times.
Supposedly, Assange thinks that there is a sealed indictment of him.
I don't even know what the charges would be.
Well, I think the Department of Justice under Loretta Lynch has said that if they did go after Julian Assange, they would have to go after other journalists, and it makes it impossible for them to do so.
In other words, do you think, you know, would any other news organization have gone with this?
I think history proves that they probably would have.
And that the culprit, the person that broke the law that stole the materials, was Chelsea Manning.
Right.
And the sources, you know, somebody who leaks classified information is always at risk of getting caught.
I think if you were presented with this information, would you have run it as an exclusive for the Huffington Post?
Yes, but I wouldn't run it the way that WikiLeaks ran it, which is just to kind of dump it all on the site.
What I would do is I would go through it and find the newsworthy aspects.
But I have before published classified information, and I would do it again if I felt like it was.
Well, if you ever get arrested, I honestly would do this.
I will go visit you in jail, and I'll bring you a cake with a file on it.
I'd take care of it.
I appreciate that.
What are your thoughts on this, James O'Keefe?
I would say there's a distinction between people stealing information like Manning did or breaking the law, criminally breaking the law.
And by the way, sometimes Like in the case of Snowden, you can be a hero and a traitor.
It's not necessarily, you don't have to be one or the other.
You can sometimes, as Martin Luther King said, some laws are unjust.
But he did break the law.
And some would argue it was pretty heinous in how he did it.
There's a distinction between breaking the law like that and just breaking information that someone else gives to you.
There's a total distinction there.
If someone came to me with information and I thought it was important for the public to see it and it didn't jeopardize, I had a responsibility, I would publish it.
But I wouldn't go hack into the system and do all the illegal things.
There is a huge distinction there, and we have to remember that when we're talking about the- Well, you know, I mean, this whole charge that somehow the Russians were involved in the election when we know they didn't hack into our voting machines and they had no impact on the voting of people.
But, you know, you can't get away from this aspect of the story, which is Hillary Clinton did not secure, as she was required to, by law, top secret information, special access program information, and that her emails were hacked because she put a server in a mom-and-pop shop bathroom closet.
And we now have confirmed, I know Fox confirmed with a 99% certainty that at least five foreign intelligence agencies had gotten into this.
And everyone's all concerned about this.
But during the Obama years, I doubt the Huffington Post reported that the White House had been hacked, the DOD had been hacked, the State Department had been hacked, the IRS had been hacked.
I actually broke the story that the White House had been hacked.
Did you?
And then, of course, we have the Office of Personnel Management, 22, 23 million personal files hacked by the Chinese.
Obama never discussed it.
Yeah, I didn't break that one.
But it turned out my wife's files were in there because she had done a clerkship.
There are millions and millions of people.
I know, but nobody talked about that.
Nobody.
That was pretty big.
It really wasn't that big.
If Obama didn't talk about it, that tells you where his priorities are.
Doesn't that suggest that talking about Russia and the case of Hillary Clinton's server and somehow they're not responsible and Russian hacking without any evidence whatsoever to confirm it?
There's also a distinction between hacking an election and showing people's emails.
Let's assume Russia showed the emails.
That's not hacking an election.
That's like a form of transparency to show what people are doing.
Hacking an election, like the videos in Philadelphia where they were literally telling people who to vote for, the election judges on election day.
And here's another.
And it's even worse than that because Obama used taxpayer money and tried to influence the election against our biggest ally, B.B. Netanyahu.
And that's just a fact.
Right.
I mean, the United States has been flipping elections either by force or by other subtle means of influence for more than 100 years.
That's for sure.
Yeah, and nobody really paid attention to that except for people like me.
Well, the lefties were pretty mad about a lot of those.
And I know it bothers Ryan to no end that this show is as popular as it is, and Hannity, the TV show.
You're going to be happier.
You're such a liar.
You're such a liar.
I used to say, do you say hi to Ariana for me, but she's not there anymore, is she?
I keep up with her.
I'll say hi to her for you.
No, she's not.
She has moved on to bigger and better things.
Well, I still like Ariana.
She's nuts, but I like her.
And now she's talking about, well, if Donald Trump slept eight hours a day, he'd be doing so much better in the next four years.
All right.
You know what?
This turned into something totally unexpected, but I think a very worthwhile conversation, and you both contributed a lot to it.
Thank you both.
Ryan, welcome back.
James, I think today's a Vindication Day for you, and good for you.
Thank you for the work you do, and I hope that lives are saved as a result of that work.
Thank you.
Thank you, Sean.
Stay right.
No news roundup and information overload in the final hour of the Sean Hannity Show.
We're almost at the front, okay?
Everyone's clear of the voice there.
We're almost at the front.
They already blocked the whole front, which means that it's already this Trump Hotel is already shut down.
I think what we should do is we should run up.
Yes!
Woo!
All right, News Roundup and Information Overload Hour here on the Sean Hannity Show.
That was at the Trump Hotel in Washington, D.C.
It's our Snowflake Snowstorm update.
You got the group Anonymous now calling on followers to actually attack Donald Trump.
The group has declared a total war on Trump.
They did this ahead of the election last year.
They're calling on supporters to look from Reveal for any information they can find.
You're going to regret, they threaten the next four years.
Really?
Anyway, they are urging followers to investigate his past, shady connections ahead of this inauguration week.
And then the allegations aren't substantiated, not exactly clear that they'll take it, but they put out a call to arms.
Go get him.
It's your duty as adults.
We have the resources.
Use them.
The threat came after Trump tweeted out that the outgoing CIA chief, John Brennan, couldn't do much worse.
Just look at the red line in Crimea and Ukraine and the buildup of Russian nukes.
It's not good.
Anonymous, by the way, it's involved in hacking, collecting, and all that sort of thing.
Anyway, they have made good on threats to Trump in the past after declaring war with the president-elect in March of 2016.
A series of leaks purporting to be from Trump's phone were spread online, and the information included voicemails and telephone numbers.
At the same time, unverified personal details, et cetera, were of close aides were posted online.
And then, of course, in 2015, the group brought down the Trump Tower New York website after Trump for a brief period and leaked personal further voicemails of his rhetoric towards Muslims.
So that's just one group.
And of course, we have the latest O'Keeffe video planning to blockade the Trump inauguration.
And of course, John Kerry, he's not going to the inauguration.
We're now up to 60-plus Democrats that are not going.
Then we have Chuck Schumer.
I respect where the inauguration boycotters are coming from.
They have so many, there have been so many irregularities.
Washington Post, never Trump Republicans are whining about not getting a job at the White House.
Why would they hire you if you don't support what they're doing?
Now you just want a job.
You think it's your due to get a job?
And Rand Paul actually said somebody should go to jail for the Trump intel leaks.
CNN, of course, we've got rape debate battles going on there with one of their hosts, I guess, contributors suggesting that people that support Trump that happen to be black Americans are mediocre Negroes.
Sheriff David Clark had to weigh in on that and fired back at that stupid comment, ignorant comment.
Robert Reich has weighed in.
And then you got Josh Ernest making an unsubstantiated claim against Congressman Tom Price, who is slated to be the Health and Human Services Secretary.
Anyway, joining us now, Lieutenant Colonel Buzz Patterson is with us, author of the book, Bestseller, Dereliction of Duty, an eyewitness account of how Bill Clinton compromised America's national security.
Gary Byrne, a decorated White House Secret Service veteran who witnessed a lot of the obscenity-filled rages and violent behavior at the Clinton White House.
He wrote the book Crisis of Character.
A White House Secret Service officer discloses his first-hand experience with Hillary Bill and how they operate.
Welcome both of you to the program.
Gary, I'll start with you and think back to your capacity of being outside the Oval Office for all those years when Bill Clinton was president.
The Secret Service is referring to this inauguration as the most unique in terms of threats that they've ever experienced.
Do you see that?
Yeah, I do.
Sean, first of all, it's nice to be with you again.
I worked three inaugurals while I was in the Secret Service Uniform Division, two for President Clinton and one for George W.
And they all have some similarities, which are always very large.
Two of the most important things they know about the inaugurals is they're in the same place every four years, but that also gives the Secret Service the advantage of.
They've done this many times.
Them and their partners with the FBI and other law enforcement, you know, they'll have their act together, believe me.
But it is a huge task.
Well, this is a massive undertaking.
I mean, I've got to assume you need literally a bubble created, a 360-degree bubble, where anybody that wants to get inside that bubble needs to be checked.
Is that possible?
Yes, it is.
From the White House all the way up to the Capitol, about two or three blocks left and right of that path will be closed off pretty much like the security you would need to get into an airport.
Well, what if somebody, and I'm thinking out of the box here, because this sounds like real threats by real people.
And look, I know a lot of people discussed this when Obama came into office, President Obama.
And people thought about the threat assessment then.
And now we've got these people that are openly threatening Donald Trump.
What does that mean for the Secret Service?
And what if somebody, God forbid, snuck a gun in already?
Right.
All those things you're talking about are possible, not likely.
But here's one thing that their threats do get the Secret Service.
Now that gives them reason to go and start interviewing them right now.
Full speed, start pulling people, you know, figuring out, they already know who a lot of these people are.
Start pulling them aside, start interviewing them, and maybe they can actually intervene with some of this stuff now because they were open threats.
Okay.
From your position, Lieutenant Colonel Buzz Patterson, to me, this is a massive undertaking and a great risk for everybody.
Well, it definitely is, Sean.
And I was in the 1997 inauguration and also in the parade back to the White House.
And I remember how massive it was back in those days.
There are probably today about 28,000 security officers and officials that are working this.
Secret Service guys, FBI, Park Police, Capitol Police, National Guard.
There's actually what they call the multi-agency command center, the MAC, which has all these agencies there in a room communicating with each other while this goes on.
It's a massive, huge footprint, a massive undertaking.
And I do believe this is a very unique one in terms of the threat that Donald Trump faces.
I have no doubt, however, whatsoever that the Secret Service guys, the FBI, they've all done their job.
They're doing their due diligence as we speak.
The airspace over Washington, D.C. is going to be closed on Friday.
It won't be anybody from the air or on the ground, in my estimation.
All right.
So do you think that this is a different time?
And do you think the threat that they're talking about openly, do you view this as a real, clear, present danger?
Do you think it's any?
Don't you think every president is facing this threat?
No, I think it's a little different this time because one of the things that the three of us know, but we just haven't discussed yet is in the last eight years, President Obama has gone out of his way to reduce the respect.
The best way to put it is to reduce the respect of law enforcement.
Now you've got thousands and thousands of anarchists who don't really respect law enforcement like they used to.
They think it's okay to attack them.
And that will play in to what we see happen on the inaugural.
Explain what you mean by that.
A little more detail.
So, you know, one of the first things that happened when President Obama took office was this friend of his that was a professor got arrested for destroying private property.
And he was arrested by the police.
And the first thing that President Obama said was the police officer did something stupid because he knew this guy, which is incredibly kind of silly to say.
And then later on, we saw President Obama, whenever something happened with somebody getting shot, an African-American getting shot, they right away took the side of the so-called victim and they basically attacked law enforcement.
Law enforcement is too aggressive, law enforcement's this.
Law enforcement does the best they can with the tools they have, and then 99% of the time they get it right.
Yeah, well, it's that 1% of the time, I guess, that we've got to worry about.
And I haven't even mentioned radical Islamic terrorism.
And I'm sure a desire by ISIS to take this moment where we have a change in government and the peaceful transfer of power and use it to their advantage if they see one.
Yeah, and I have to say also, Sean, that there's also a lot of programs in place that exist around the clock for the White House and the President that are already there existing in terms of having hospitals on alert.
There'll be evacuation routes planned.
They'll have helicopter and fixed-wing assets on alert around the area to get Mr. Trump, President Trump out of harm's way should it come to that.
So this is not unusual that we have high security around the president.
President Trump, I think, is an unusual protectee, as it were.
But I want to reassure everybody that they depend on the power of the people.
A lot of presidents, when they are in the inaugural parade after they've taken the oath of office and they go down Pennsylvania Avenue, a lot of them over the years get out of the car for a period of time and they walk.
Yeah, so that part of the motorcade is there's a point there where the Secret Service, they've already told the president there's a point if you want to get out of the car, this is where you can get out.
And they've taken some security precautions on.
So in other words, that would be a predetermined area.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's going to be the most secured area close to the bandstand because the stand that they built.
Because that stand, that's not just a bunch of bleachers.
The colonel can tell you that it takes about a month to build it, and it's like a regular structure.
It's just temporary.
This is something that maybe I shouldn't even ask, but I'll ask anyway: would this be an event where the president and the incoming president, the outgoing president, would probably be wearing a vest?
You know what?
It's up to their ship leaders and themselves for that particular day.
It depends what protectee they are.
Yeah.
That's exactly right.
It was always situational.
In my time there, Sean, it was situational.
President Clinton, in this case, would take the advice of the lead and wear one.
He did on occasion in my time there wear one.
I would probably advocate that in the situation.
Yeah, yeah.
And to add to that.
Is there a possible, is there such a vest design now that nobody would even know you had it on?
Yeah, they're pretty good with that.
Actually, I just got a chance not too long ago to look at some modern vests.
The president has access to the latest stuff.
Nowadays, what they're wearing is state-of-the-art.
It is thinner, and it will stop rifle bullets.
So, yeah, it's out there, absolutely.
But then that doesn't stop a headshot, does it?
No, it does not.
And that's where the Secret Service comes in.
So scary.
All we're talking about here is so scary.
When I just read to you what Anonymous and all these other groups are doing, you know, what does that do to your antenna?
Because it puts my antenna through the roof.
Well, for me, it would be another day at the office.
I mean, that's what the Secret Service and the FBI and their partners that are doing this.
This is what they go through every day.
It's just, I don't want to make it sound lackadaisical or that I'm laid-back about it, but it's the threat, just like what the Colonel had to do with what his job was at the White House.
I mean, he might have had to run up there with those codes and help the president launch an attack.
It's just what the job is.
All right, guys, I want to thank you both.
Our thoughts and prayers.
And I said this many times during the Obama years, too.
My thoughts and prayers, we must protect our elected officials.
And what I'm reading sounds pretty scary every day.
But if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception.
There has never been anything like it.
And we're going to have a special prosecutor.
When I speak, I go out and speak, the people of this country are furious.
In my opinion, the people that have been long-term workers at the FBA are furious.
There has never been anything like this where emails and you get a subpoena, you get a subpoena, and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 emails, and then you acid wash them or bleach them, as you would say.
So we're going to get a special prosecutor, and we're going to look into it because you know what?
People have been, their lives have been destroyed for doing one-fifth of what you've done, and it's a disgrace.
And honestly, you ought to be ashamed to be able to do that.
Secretary Clinton, I told Senator Kaine last night: if either of our sons in the military handled classified information the same way Secretary Clinton did, they'd be court-martialed.
I mean, that's the hard truth of all this.
And the American people are tired of it.
You saw the man with a picture of the submarine.
His mother goes around, she's devastated.
Devastated.
Took pictures of a submarine.
They took the kid who wanted some pictures of the submarine.
That's an old submarine.
They got plenty of pictures of the enemy.
What's up?
They've got plenty of them.
He wanted them, took a couple of pictures.
They put him in jail for a year.
I saw his mother the other night on television.
I'll tell you what, folks, we've never been in a situation like this.
Why didn't they protect a kid who's taking a couple of pictures of a submarine that's an old submarine?
And they put him in jail.
They put him in jail.
Lovely family, lovely mother.
They put him in jail because he wanted to have some remembrance of where he worked.
Let's be clear.
Chelsea Manning has served a tough prison sentence.
So the notion that the average person who was thinking about disclosing vital classified information would think that it goes unpunished, I don't think would get that impression from the sentence that Chelsea Manning has served.
It has been my view that given she went to trial, that due process was carried out, that she took responsibility for her crime, that the sentence that she received was very disproportionate relative to what other leakers had received.
Really?
So Manning was convicted of stealing and distributing 750,000 military documents, which was published both by WikiLeaks and the New York Times and others.
But Manning is the one that stole them.
And that sentence was commuted.
And then Donald Trump was talking about, of course, Christian Saussier.
And he got a one-year federal prison term because he was proud that he worked in a submarine and for his own private personal use, he took six pictures inside the submarine.
And by the way, other sailors had done the same thing, and nothing happened to them, or they got a slight slap on the wrist.
And this guy is now in jail while his mother and his wife and his baby girl are waiting for daddy to get out of prison.
Six pictures of a submarine.
Really?
Kathleen Saussier is the mother of Christian Saussier, the U.S. Navy sailor, and Dr. Jeff Atticott is the director of the Center for Terrorism Law at St. Mary's University School of Law in San Antonio.
And he took up Christian's case pro bono because he feels that Christian Saussier is experiencing an injustice at the hands of the U.S. military and government.
Kathleen, I'm just assuming you're wishing that this at least commutation, but hopefully a pardon, was given to your own son.
Absolutely, and I'm grateful that you had both of us on because Jeffrey has supported and taken on the fight along with Ron, who you met the last time we were on, and he submitted a pardon request to the president administration, President Obama.
We understand there's time constraints and things like that, but hearing this news about Chelsea Manning as well as General Cartwright today, the same thing.
I'm sure there's going to be even more today and tomorrow.
It just shocks me.
It disgusts me, as you said, to hear 750,000 that she admitted she was wrong.
She accepted responsibility.
Those are all the same things that my son did.
He said, okay, look, I took six photos, never transmitted them, never anything like that.
And he's sitting in fact.
Have you heard at all from the White House since you submitted this application for a pardon?
Pardon?
I have not personally, but I'll let Jeffrey Atticott speak.
Jeffrey, has anybody heard from the White House?
Now, since Obama now has commuted 1,385 sentences more than any president in the history of the country, and has granted 212 pardons, have you heard anything in this case?
No, not yet.
And we have two petitions we submitted, one for clemency and the other for pardon.
And to get a pardon, of course, you have to also submit a request for a waiver.
We haven't heard anything.
Of course, in a bureaucracy, you know, I didn't really expect to hear anything.
Do you have anybody on Capitol Hill that is pleading your case for you?
Well, we're reaching out to everybody, and that's why we're very grateful, Sean, to be on your show, because it's a matter of putting his case on the fast track where somebody in the Trump administration picks up the phone to the pardon attorney's office and says, you know, I want this on my desk in two weeks so I can make a determination.
I was a military officer.
I was the senior legal advisor to all the United States Army Special Forces, the Green Beres, 20 years in the military.
So I know what classification is and what these and the seriousness of these types of matters.
But in this case, it's a gross injustice what happened to the sailor.
And we all know the reason that it happened.
He was put on the altar of political correctness because the FBI was being criticized, along with the Department of Justice, that they were doing nothing about Clinton's classified issues.
So they held him out and they said, oh, really?
We are concerned with classified stuff.
They took this case from the Navy, who had jurisdiction, and they crucified him.
Unbelievable.
And Kathleen, when Donald Trump talked about that, that was the night, or was the day after you had appeared on my television program.
He had watched it on my show and even asked me about it at one point.
And so I don't know what Obama's going to do.
And one has to wonder in these final hours I wonder if Hillary Clinton gets some type of pardon.
In other words, remember, if you go back to Watergate and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford for crimes committed or may have been committed, the power of the pardon is absolute.
There is absolutely nothing you can do if you get a pardon.
But I got to tell you, if you haven't heard from anybody, I would suspect that this is not on the front burner.
Is there any congressman you can talk to that would maybe call over to the White House and ask for a look at this?
Well, I can tell you when it was going down, when everything was happening, I reached out to my local congressman here in Connecticut and no one was willing to help me at all or support.
So I would imagine it would take a very courageous congressman somewhere in the United States.
Well, I know who could do it.
I know who we can put you in touch with.
How many more favors can I ask poor Louis Gomer to do for me, Linda?
But you know what?
Is there any way maybe we I mean, they hate Louis over at the White House, though, right?
Is there any congressman or woman that Obama likes, anyone, that we know that would do this?
What about Paul Ryan?
Well, he won't take my call.
Mr. Speaker.
Well, I mean, I'd love somebody.
I mean, at the very least, maybe Marsha Blackburn, could we ask her to do this?
She would do it.
Really, Sean, it's not an issue for the Congress.
We've got to get to the executive branch.
No, I know, but I'm trying to get you to the Trump administration.
I'm trying to get somebody in Congress that could get to the executive branch for you because obviously your attempts are not working out too well.
Well, Sean, if we get on your TV show, Donald Trump will be watching, and there we go.
Well, I'm not worried about when Donald Trump gets in office.
I'll ask him myself at some point, you know, right when he gets in there.
He's got a lot going on in those first few days.
Maybe if people call Congress, I'll do this now: 202-224-3121 and respectfully ask your congressman, your congresswoman, if they'll take up the cause of Christian Saussier and ask the president if he would give this guy a pardon and remind them.
In other words, if they could just make a call over to the White House and the Office of Pardons, or I don't know what to call the office, do they have an office of pardoning?
Yeah, it's called the Office of the Pardon Attorney.
Okay, so you call them, no one will answer the phone.
No, I'm saying Congress can get in touch with them.
I mean, if need be, they could walk over your file for crying out loud.
Yes.
All right.
We're going to pass that on.
Kathleen, you're in our thoughts and prayers.
We're not giving up on this issue regardless of what Obama does, okay?
We will continue to advance this.
Yeah, we are.
I know it's hard.
I'm sorry.
You deserve better.
Thank you.
You know what I tweeted out?
Remember the letter the FBI sent to MLK Jr. to kill himself?
You see, I tweeted that out today?
Amazing, the comment.
Oh, but of course, our intelligence is just perfect.
All right.
Rhonda is in Colorado.
Hey, Rhonda, how are you?
Glad you called.
I am great.
I'm so excited to talk to you today.
I've been trying to get in touch for years.
Well, I'm so glad you got through.
Welcome aboard.
I know.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for all you do.
I think you did a great job in helping out our new president to be elected.
And actually, I got a chance to meet him in Colorado when he was here last October.
Oh, awesome.
He's a great guy.
Yeah, and I think you'll do a good job.
He's wonderful.
I agree.
I'm really concerned about you.
I know you're going to go to the inaugural ball.
And you're trying to figure out what to wear.
And as crazy as the protesters can be, you'll get your tux ruined.
I think you should go in jeans.
I think it's important that you go in jeans.
All right.
I want to go in jeans.
And I was willing to do it.
Here's the problem.
Do you have a boss?
Yes.
And I have bosses too, right?
Yes.
I have been ordered to wear the tux, pants and all.
And this was non-negotiable.
Get this.
I was told it's non-negotiable.
Now, I said, I'm not wearing the dopey bow tie.
And they said, okay, you don't have to wear a bow tie.
But I was, you know, I even got a call from my boss's office telling me you've never been to a Washington Correspondence dinner.
You will be going this year.
And I said, I don't want to go.
And they said, we don't care if you want to go or not.
And I said, it's on a Saturday night.
I don't have to work Saturday nights.
And they get, go back and read your contract.
We do what we tell you to do.
And I said, all right, we'll deal with that in April, but I'm not going.
I've never been there.
I want to keep my perfect track record up.
And they're saying, no, you've got to be there because you were the leading voice on the channel in support of the new president.
And we want you there.
They were being nice about it, but I'm like, but I don't want to go.
I don't want to see Wolf Blitzer and Jake Tapper and all these media people I hate.
I don't want to see them.
They hate me and I hate them.
Let's be honest.
And all the people at MSNBC, I don't want to see them either.
But they say Fox is throwing a huge party and they're like, we want you to be the bartender.
And then they, and guess what?
And they said, and you have to wear a tux to that.
I don't want to wear a tuxedo.
Whoever thought of a tuxedo?
I just want to go on record and say, I think that's really stupid.
What?
That a bartender is going to wear tux?
Exactly.
I'll just throw the jacket away and take off my tie and get rolling.
Nobody wants to see a bartender in a pair of tux pants.
Listen, I always tucked a rag on the side of my belt, and I would fly.
So I'm willing to 10 bar for the party.
Well, it worked at the time.
I was ragging my belt, and I was ready to fly.
It worked at the time.
How Drees are you making over there?
I was 17.
I got pretty lucky back then in terms of making out with girls, so I was pretty good.
Well, I know I'm a fat old guy now, but you can't imagine me back in the day.
You're a manner.
You're a false modesty.
What?
Don't even go with that false modesty.
I made out with a lot of girls at 17.
Oh, I'm a fat so now.
Well, I am.
My stomach is fat.
I mean, I'm strong.
I've never been stronger in my life.
So my sensei now makes me do he times.
So you're like Kung Fu Panda of the radio set now.
No, now he times my hundred push-ups.
I have to do 100 push-ups every day I train.
How fast can you do 100 push-ups?
You couldn't even do 100 push-ups.
Be honest.
I bench press.
I don't need to do no push-ups.
Okay, you couldn't do 100 push-ups, could you?
No, I said I don't want to do push-ups.
I bet you couldn't do 50.
I'll bet you $1,000 you can't do 50, and you can drop down now while I'm doing this try so far.
$1,000, huh?
You can't do real nose-to-the-ground push-ups, yes.
I can, and I will take that bet.
I can do 20.
You could do 20?
Could you?
And Linda, have you ever done one in your life?
You want smart political talk without the meltdowns?
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I'm Carol Markowitz.
And I'm Mary Catherine Hamm.
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