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May 2, 2016 - Sean Hannity Show
01:28:40
Will The Trail End In Indiana?

The road to the White House goes through Indiana tomorrow andmost of the polls are showing Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton withcommanding leads.  Sean breaks down the contest including astrange outlier poll that shows Cruz with a 16 point leadinIndiana. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is an iHeart podcast.
This is the Sean Hannity Show podcast.
By the way, my month of punishment being off Twitter is over, and I've been unleashing again in my Twitter rants, which a lot of people seem to really enjoy because people, you know what, are rude on Twitter and they're anonymous.
And so I'm like, you know what?
I can be rude too.
I can be rude right back.
You know, are you a jackass in real life or just on Twitter?
That's one of my favorite lines.
Stuff like that.
Anyway, glad you're with us.
We've got the pollsters.
John and Jim McLaughlin are going to be on the program today.
A lot of poll numbers to go over with you today.
Patrick J. Buchanan, he thinks that Trump has this locked up.
Nate Silver, this is pretty interesting over at 538.
Last week, he had Indiana 58% chance that Cruz wins it.
And today, it's 97% chance based on the polls and 83% chance that Trump wins it based on polls and his analysis.
Boy, he changed pretty quick.
A lot of poll numbers come out over the weekend, and I'll go through some of that with you.
There also seems to be a shift in some of these hypothetical matchups.
It started last week with the Battleground poll that had dead even Hillary and Donald Trump.
And now there is a Rasmussen poll out today where Trump is actually defeating Hillary 41 to 39.
Now, I've always said I didn't think hypothetical matchups meant a whole lot at this time, but there seems to be a shift where, you know, the real clear politics average would be Hillary plus eight against Trump.
But now there seems to be something happening on the ground at least in those polls.
So we're going to continue to watch that really closely.
I will say this.
Before I go over all these polls in the state of Indiana and everything that we can expect to happen tomorrow, how many times have I said on this program that I believe establishment types would rather see Hillary Clinton win so they can wag their finger in the face of the people and say you shouldn't have picked Trump, you shouldn't have picked Ted Cruz.
I have said it is absolutely the same for both of them.
Both are hated in a huge way by the establishment.
And they have tried everything they can do, every step of the way, to stop either one of these two from getting the nomination.
Well, I now have some evidence proving that what I've been saying is true.
Let me start with George Will.
I got to tell you, this is very disappointing to me.
If you think back, how many establishment candidates the Republican Party has jammed down your throat over the years?
You know, you can remember Bob Dole was a horrible presidential candidate.
He just was not very good.
He was lackluster, lacking vision.
It was just weak.
He was the next guy in line.
And look what happened.
And then we had the same thing with John McCain.
He was not a good presidential candidate.
I think Mitt Romney of the three was much better.
Mitt Romney, I am convinced Mitt Romney could have been a very good president.
I am convinced of that.
But Mitt Romney got bad advice, especially before the third debate, and he took his foot off the gas.
You can't take your foot off the gas in a presidential election.
You just can't.
And I mean, in this first debate, he crushed Obama, destroyed him.
In the second debate, he won two, but for stupid Candy Crowley over at CNN.
And that turned out to be misinformation on her part.
Right, Candy?
Obama appeals to Candy Crowley was dead wrong.
And then in the third debate, the foreign policy debate, it was horrible.
We could have won that election.
And that's frustrating.
Well, now I don't want to say that I'm right.
I'm hoping these people come around.
Now, the polls do have a pretty significant lead emerging in the final days leading up to Indiana, but we'll know more tomorrow night.
So, I'm not going to make any predictions.
There was one poll that had Cruz up by 16 in Indiana.
You have another poll, but then you have all these other polls where Trump is up 19, 17, 15, 9, 8, and 5.
So, there's only one poll that showed Cruz leading.
So, if you go by based on the polls, Nate Silver, all these things, it seems the momentum in Indiana has shifted to Trump in a pretty significant way, but we'll know more tomorrow.
But here's what really bothers me, and the same would be the case if it was Ted Cruz.
And I've said this from the beginning: I don't care if you're a Cruz supporter or a Trump supporter, it doesn't matter.
And, you know, I've always been a fan of George Will in many ways.
I remember back in the day when I would watch.
I mean, I was 18 years old, and I don't know if he was on at that time, but I do remember the early days when David Brinkley was the host for crying out loud of this week.
You don't even know who David Brinkley is, do you?
Wow, that's a little scary.
Lauren has no clue.
Ethan has no clue.
Jason has no clue.
Do you know?
Jason knows?
You do?
I've heard of David Brinkley.
I've heard of David Brinkley, but you never watched David Brinkley.
I used to watch him.
Yeah, in the 80s when I was a young teen, I was fixated on David Brinkley.
No, you were watching MTV.
I got it in its initial heyday.
When they actually played music back in the day, which they don't anymore.
So I remember those early days where Will was on there battling Sam Donaldson and Kokie Roberts, and at the time was like Reagan's lone defender.
And he was stunningly effective, highly intellectual, left everybody else in the dust.
He would be a man of few words.
He'd let Sam rant and rave and Koki rant and rave, and then he'd come out and say something that would usually be pretty profound.
And anyway, I don't know what's happened.
George Will hates Donald Trump so much that he's effectively endorsed Hillary Clinton.
And I'm not exaggerating.
George Will writes, if Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House.
Well, what does that mean?
That means don't let Trump win.
Donald Trump's damage to the Republican Party, although already extensive, has barely begun.
He talks about all of his problems multiplying and the support of the most anti-conservative presidential candidate in the party's history.
Those that collaborate will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party's reconstruction.
That's what he's writing here.
Trump would be the most unpopular nominee ever, unable to even come close to Mitt Romney's insufficient support among women, minorities, and young people.
In losing disastrously, Trump probably would create a down ballot carnage sufficient to end even the Republican control of the House.
Now, I don't have a crystal ball.
I don't.
This is a very unconventional year.
If anybody's making predictions, I think they have no clue what they're talking about.
I cannot make a prediction.
Is it possible what the dire gloom and doom that George Will believes is impossible?
Well, maybe in a conventional political year, I might buy it.
But I think all bets are off this year.
I think people are so disgusted with Washington.
I think anything can happen.
I also warn people that are overconfident.
Don't underestimate Hillary Clinton and her machine.
So anyway, he says that conservatives, if Trump is nominated, should have two tasks.
One would be to help him lose 50 states.
Now, why would he say that?
Because I'm telling you, the establishment types that are unhappy that their choice for candidates got their brains beaten in by Cruz and Trump, they're angry.
They want revenge.
And who are they most angry at?
You, the voters, and how you voted, and how you haven't gone along with their great ideas.
Otherwise, this would be a typical presidential election year where Jeb Bush or Scott Walker or John Kasich was the nominee.
But the people have decided they don't want this to be a conventional year.
Now, he can make all the predictions he wants, but I doubt that George Will predicted that Donald Trump would get more GOP primary votes than every other GOP candidate ever before him and have the most in the history of the GOP.
I don't think he predicted that about the 162-year-old party.
And then it gets worse.
And you got Bill Crystal.
You know, George Will is essentially endorsing Hillary.
Bill Crystal is now trying to encourage a third-party candidacy to stop Trump in the general election.
Well, that's basically trying to do everything he can do to help Hillary Clinton.
Anyway, he put out a hypothetical shortlist of third-party candidates, including Marco Rubio.
Rubio's not going to do that.
He's been very clear he's not going to do that.
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas would be stunned if he ever became a part of that mess.
Who could run if Donald Trump becomes the Republican nominee?
So Crystal and George Will want the Republicans to lose and are actively working now to make that happen.
And I can promise you, for every Crystal and every George Will out there, there's thousands of establishment types who are planning on plotting and to do the same thing in their own way.
And why?
Because they want to stick their finger in your face and tell you how dumb you are, that you're not going along with their chosen candidates this time, that you've decided to make this an insurgency year, and they want to punish you for your rebellion.
What are we, little children here?
And if it was Ted Cruz who was in the position that Trump is currently in, they do the same thing anyway because they've never liked Ted Cruz to begin with.
It's really you, the people, that they have contempt for.
And it's you, the people that they're trying to disenfranchise.
And it's you, the people, they hate your choice so much that they'd rather help Hillary Clinton.
That ought to tell you everything you need to know about how desperately these insiders want to hang on to their power.
That in spite of Republicans in every exit poll being shown to be weak and timid and ineffective and having betrayed the Republican Party, they still want those people in power, not people that are threatening to shake the system to its core.
That ought to tell you a lot about people.
Now, I'm from the beginning and been clear.
I'm going to support the nominee.
And I'm going to support the nominee because the third term of Hillary Clinton, well, sorry, the first term of Hillary Clinton would be nothing except the third term of Barack Hussein Obama.
We would continue the failed economic policies.
She would continue the failed health care system that he put together, which is collapsing economically.
She would never allow this country to move towards energy independence against fracking, which is so stupid.
You know, she would never give the states the power to choose for education, and she's not going to build the wall.
And she's not going to, she wasn't there for the 3 a.m. call in Benghazi.
And she didn't do a good job in Libya.
And she didn't do it.
She might have traveled a lot and racked up frequent flyer miles, you know, flying on your private jet that you pay for for her.
But she hasn't, what can she cite as an accomplishment?
That's how absolutely twisted and absolutely skewed these establishment people are.
John Boehner calling Cruz Lucifer.
You know what?
Screw these people.
I have no respect for them.
None.
All these years, they have forced establishment candidates down your throat, told you how horrible it would be if you don't suck it up and vote for their establishment candidate.
Well, now that you got people that are insurgents, now they don't want you to vote for them, and now they're going to pick up their little toys like the big baby sore losers that they are, and they're going to go home.
And I'm sorry, I actually put the best interest of the country over everything else.
And if it is Trump, let's say it is Trump for a second.
Let's say he does three of the things that he's told me in interview after interview after interview after interview that he's going to do.
Let's say Trump builds the wall.
Let's say he eliminates Obamacare.
He can't be any more economically undisciplined than Obama.
He's got to save money.
Nobody can have the debt that he's accumulated.
And let's say he goes for energy independence, which he has told me time and time again he would do.
Let's say he did those three, four things.
Wouldn't that be infinitely better than anything Hillary would offer?
It's unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
I am, frankly, so disappointed, but I'm not stunned.
I thought I understood the establishment.
I thought I got them.
You know, years ago when I said Boehner needs to go, I thought I understood it.
But it's bordering on pathological, the hatred that they have for people like Senator Cruz and Donald Trump.
And this is the irony.
I know the Cruz and Trump people are at each other's throat because there's a lot at stake.
The great irony is, is they hate both of you.
They hate both of them.
And they hate all their supporters, too.
All right, so Indiana tomorrow.
Look, it's not the end of the race by any stretch of the imagination.
And I want to be very, very clear.
I understand the strategy of both John Kasich and Senator Ted Cruz.
Neither one can mathematically now get to 1237.
They're fighting to prevent Donald Trump from getting there.
His doing so well in New York, Delaware, Maryland, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania, though, has now made that job that much more hard.
Because while if he would not have done as well in those six states, he would definitely be in the position, meaning Trump, that he would have to win Indiana.
Now, with that said, and I'm saying that, you know, I like people that fight.
You know, if I'm in the ring and I do MMA and I'm fighting somebody, I don't really get to fight the way you normally would fight because I actually have to have a face for the television program.
Otherwise, I'd let it rip.
What do I care?
No, we really do.
We absolutely fight.
We do real fight.
Why are you laughing at that?
What is so funny?
You saw my finger.
I broke it in half.
Why are you laughing so hard at that?
Put your microphone on.
Nobody can hear you laughing.
Why is that so funny?
I don't know.
I don't know why it's funny.
I like to box.
I like to fight, But there's a rule when I'm fighting and sparring.
I don't let people hit me in the face.
What do you want me to come in with like a bunch of people?
I don't know.
It's just like I have this image of you, like, you know, you guys are really going at it.
And as you're about to fight, you're like, nothing above the shoulder is okay.
This is a face for TV.
I just picture you saying.
No, actually, it's not me that says my sensei that says that.
You can't.
Your sensei does not say.
Well, no, he does.
What does he say?
He's like, if you hit him in the face, he goes, I'm going to kill you.
He'll say that.
Now, he has this.
So when we're doing drills, right?
You know, for example, I might do an eye poke, or if somebody does a push on you, imagine somebody pushes.
Are they below the chin drills?
No, you know, like if you're in a bar, somebody pushes you in the top of your chest.
Well, we have specific things that we do for each situation, and we practice them and we drill them.
So, for example, the first thing I do is I come around, really slam their arms down hard, follow up with an ear slap on both sides of the ears, hold the back of the neck, either trake them out or poke them in the eyes and then rake their jaw shut.
And then when they're going down, you kick them in the, you know what?
That's how you handle that part.
So, anyway, so we're doing these things, but we do have strict rules that they can't punch me in the face.
And by the way, I don't get to punch them in the face.
Why are you in that thing?
That thing?
It doesn't matter.
You put the thing on.
They can still break your nose.
Easy with the guard in front.
Almost lays like you were like a hockey goalie.
No, but it still doesn't protect your full face.
It doesn't.
Listen, look at my finger.
It's like it's deformed after one of the recent wars and battles that we've had.
Anyway.
All right, let me go back to the Indiana race for a second.
So it's got the feel.
Look, one way or the other, June 7th, this whole thing is over.
That's a month from now.
The primary nominating process is going to be over in a month.
Now we know where Bill Crystal and George will stand.
That's not where I'm going to stand.
And I am not saying from any respect that if you are pro-Senator Cruz, we had a great time with them on Friday.
We were in Indiana with Senator Cruz and Carly Fiorina, and we did an hour on TV.
And we've got Trump on, but not for the hour tonight, just for a segment or two.
Fair and balanced.
Unbelievable.
I actually have to go on Twitter and point out your article that points out how many minutes people have had on radio.
And Ted Cruz has had more minutes than anybody else.
And he's had more appearances on TV than anybody else.
And everyone tries to write that there's some issue between me and Senator Cruz.
We're not at all.
We get along fine.
We had one little spat because he said, that's a Trump question.
I got pissed off.
That's all that happened.
Anyway, so I'm not saying anything is over.
And if a majority of votes for Ted Cruz come in in Indiana, then you move on.
And you still have New Jersey and Nebraska and Oregon and Washington and California and West Virginia, still a lot of contests left.
If, for example, tomorrow, though, if Donald Trump were to win Indiana by my men, let's say he got all 57 delegates, he'd only then need 184.
Now, the winner of Indiana statewide gets 30 of the 57, and then the rest are proportionally distributed.
It's winner-take-most, basically, in the state of Indiana.
And the polls, except for the one poll, seem to show a late surge, which is pretty huge for Trump in the state of Indiana.
Wall Street Journal NBC had Cruz down by 19.
According to the last six polls that have been taken, he's up ranging from two points to 17 points at the high end.
And then you have the one poll that I'd never heard of the polling organization.
It's from within Indiana that had Cruz plus 16.
Who knows?
I don't know how to take that when every other poll goes the other way.
Now, keep in mind that everyone, including Cruz, I think, knows that Indiana is, it's not do or die, but it's pretty close.
In other words, if Trump wins all 57 delegates, that's 184 delegates short at that point of the 1,237 needed to win the nomination.
And if we add the unbound delegates that are committed from Pennsylvania, that is, for example, there's 41 unbound delegates committed to Trump, 20 unbound delegates committed to Cruz, and at least another, I think, 57 remaining, if my math is right.
I'm trying to remember off the top of my head.
Now, if Cruz wins, you know, if Cruz doesn't win, he will have now gone without a primary victory over the last four weeks heading into the home stretch of the campaign.
Momentum does play a factor in races.
It just does.
And if you want to compare how much importance Cruz is placing in Indiana, you know, he's now been encamped there for more than a week.
So he's been on the ground and he's doing as many events.
I think he did, he's doing like 10 in the next day or two.
That's on top of all the events that he did this weekend.
So he's out there fighting.
So he has five events on his schedule today, ending with a nighttime rally in Indianapolis.
Carly Fiorina has five events of her own in the county surrounding Indianapolis.
In the last week, Cruz has done everything in his power to change the trajectory of the race.
He agreed to a non-aggression pact with John Kasich that didn't really last that long, allowing Cruz pretty much to go one-on-one in the contest.
The problem for Cruz is that 58% of those in the Wall Street Journal NBC poll did not like that agreement.
That's a pretty big number.
I was actually surprised it was that high.
Then Cruz announced Carly as his running mate.
I give Carly a lot of credit.
She did prosecute the case against Hillary as effectively as anybody in her time in the campaign.
I think she ran a very strong campaign.
I think she has a lot to offer.
Let's see.
He won the endorsement from Governor Pence, but everyone kind of viewed it as lukewarm.
So that didn't exactly help a whole lot.
I know Glenn Beck has been all over the state.
I know that Mike Lee has been all over the state.
I know that Louis Gomert is all over the state, and Heidi Cruz is all over the state.
And Senator Cruz himself is really, really ratcheting up the rhetoric and, you know, trying to win the state.
That's what he's trying to do.
So anyway, at least according to the polls, it seems a little bit uphill for him.
Scott Reed, the chief political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said if he loses Indiana, it's game set match.
Washington Post said that Cruz's Indiana strategy is both urgent and unconventional.
That doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing from my point of view.
I love the sense of urgency that anybody has in life.
New York Times is reporting one crucial advantage that Cruz will have or has had is beating Trump in the delegate fights rather than in primaries is fading.
In other words, that according to the Times, Cruz's support among the party's 2,472 convention delegates is softening as now Trump has racked up these victories in the Middle Atlantic and Northeastern states.
Anyway, Trump appears to have won at least 40 of the 54 unbound delegates, so that's where things stand.
So it's up to now the people, the good people of Indiana.
Did you see what was going on Friday in California?
I did not see, but people wrote me, I didn't see the American flag being burned.
Did you see that?
You did see it, Linda.
I didn't see that video.
Why doesn't anyone show that video?
Every single shot I saw, there were numerous Mexican flags being waved, including specifically really, really large ones.
It's just unbelievable to me, Mexico, that if you go into Mexico illegally from El Salvador, Central America, Nicaragua, wherever, you go in there, they put you in jail or they throw you out.
It's unreal.
You can go to Hannity.com.
We got a lot of information up there about all this stuff.
All right, let's go to our busy telephones.
Randy is in Plano, Texas.
Randy, how are you?
Glad you called.
Welcome to the program.
Thank you very much for taking my call.
I'll try to be as brief as possible.
I thank you very much for the years I've listened to you.
And I have some quick questions.
Okay.
Earlier, whenever you said that Boehner hates Cruz and hates Trump.
Well, no, I said I was talking very specifically about the establishment, but Boehner clearly hates Cruz more than Trump in this case.
Yeah, because he said pretty much they're golfing buddies, they're texting buddies, been golfing with them for years.
I have no idea what their relationship is, except what he said in that interview.
Right.
And in the same breath, in the same paragraph, he pretty much said that.
And another thing that really kind of concerns me is that we've never talked about how Trump says that, well, you need to really surround yourself with people that are less smart than you are and people that look up to you because you don't want to be in a room where it looks like people are smarter than you.
And that's his pretty much philosophy.
Another quick thing is that, you know, for months and months and months and months, I heard you say, what are the three things that Hillary Clinton has done to make life better for Americans?
What are the three things?
And every time you would have somebody on your show that was a liberal or progressive, they would sit there stunned and not be able to really say anything.
They wouldn't know how to react to that.
And whenever I look at Trump, so whenever you talk about the Never Trump people, what I see is I see Biff Tannon.
That's who I see becoming our president.
You see who becoming our president?
And there's no man.
Well, how about this?
Did you ever build a building in your life?
Did you ever?
I used to be in construction.
Did you ever build a house or a building?
You ever involved in construction?
Yeah, I built a house.
And actually, I put, whenever my house was being built, I went in there and put in the house myself so that my family and I could have surround town.
But you probably hired people to do the electrical or the plumbing or some type of subcontracting work, right?
No, not personally.
Oh, so you built a house from scratch all by yourself?
No, no, no, not personally.
I did not personally.
So when you build a house or you build a building, what is the number one benefit right off the top that you can count on because you're willing to risk and invest your money?
what do you do?
You create, I'll help you.
What do you do?
You create.
You create what?
What do you create if you're building a building?
If you're building a building?
Yeah, if you're building a building, don't you create thousands and thousands of jobs?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Okay.
So the people that sew the lumber, the people that do signing and all kinds of stuff.
The people that clean it, the people that install the marble, the people that build the building, the contractors, the construction workers, the people that build the towers, the guys that rework the cranes, the guys that are painters and hang wallpaper, all those people, right?
So you employ people.
All right, so start there.
What has Hillary Clinton ever done for people?
I mean, I would never vote for either of them.
I'd rather the person that's gone before the Supreme Court, helped us.
I understand.
But if he doesn't win, and he's got a very uphill battle at this point, if he doesn't win, what are you going to do then?
If he doesn't win, if he doesn't win, what am I going to do then?
Yeah.
What I'm going to do is I'm going to continue to pray and not let my heart be troubled and just think to myself.
That's fair.
God put me here in this country in a very specific time and cry for our country that the choices are what they're going to be.
Let me ask you this.
If Trump did in the many interviews I had with him, and frankly, this goes for Ted Cruz too, they both said they'd build a wall.
They both want energy independence.
They both want to repeal Obamacare.
And they both want America to build up its military and live within its means.
Do you think those five things I mentioned would be enough to vote for either Cruz or Trump over Hillary?
If I could believe that one of the candidates would actually do that, if I knew for a fact that he knew.
Listen, I can't I can't guarantee the law had already been passed.
He could come forth and say that the law was written in a way that we were going.
Here's my only question.
Listen, I can't vouch for every candidate and what they'll ultimately do.
I can't.
I can only tell you what they're saying.
And what they're saying is very distinctly different, both Trump and Cruz than what Hillary's saying and doing.
Look, I know everybody's so passionate about this.
I can tell you, from my take as a never-Hillary person and somebody who's going to support the nominee, whoever it is, that if we have another four years of Obama-like policies, which is what Hillary represents, I don't know the path to recovering as a country.
I just don't know.
I don't know what those, you know, one in four families now don't have a single person in the family that are working.
One in four.
I don't know how much more debt we can place on our kids before it's irreparable damaged by us.
I don't know how much more damage we can do on foreign policy than what this guy has done.
So, I don't know.
Everyone's going to have to make a decision on their own.
My decision is never Hillary.
My decision is I'll support the nominee.
We have interesting poll numbers out today.
Last week, the Battleground poll had Donald Trump tied with Hillary Clinton.
Today, we've got a Rasmussen poll where Trump has 41% to Clinton's 39%.
That had not been happening earlier in the race.
As a matter of fact, earlier, the person that did best against Hillary in these hypothetical matchups were John Kasich.
And then Ted Cruz second, and then Trump third.
So there seems to be a shift going on there.
We have a lot of polls out of Indiana.
Most of them have Trump up by a pretty significant amount, although there is this outlier poll that has Cruz up by 16.
So here to, is it an outlier or is that more accurate?
Who knows?
Anyway, here joining us now is Jim and John McLaughlin.
If Jim is actually here, because he usually doesn't show up.
Sean, I always show up for you.
How you doing?
You got the thick of New York accent, so I'd love to talk to you.
I know your brother much better than you.
Your brother actually is always on time.
Your brother always shows up when he's supposed to.
He's never missing an action like you.
And I just, you know, have more faith and confidence in inviting him on the program than you anyway.
You know, that's why the nuns always liked him much better at school.
The nuns I had never liked me.
And the worst part is I had one nun, Sister Agnes Lucille.
I'm sure she's long gone because she was ancient at the time, and she was a math teacher.
And she had taught my father when my father was in school.
And every day, well, your father was a gentleman.
Why don't you act more like your father?
Your father was a nice guy.
Why don't you act like your father?
Every day.
We know what it's like to live in the shadow of one's father, too.
Exactly, right?
All right, let's start with this general hypothetical matchup.
John, we'll start with you.
And the Rasmussen poll has Trump over Hillary by three.
The Battleground had it even.
And that was not the case just going back a couple of weeks ago.
What's happened in these hypothetical matchups?
I think Trump has focused his message on more about what people care about.
He's gotten away from the personal attacks on people.
And even though he's still very entertaining and the rallies, the word I have, I mean, as I told you before, I do work for Senator David Long out in Fort Wayne, and he's the majority leader, the president of the Senate out there in the state senate.
They're telling me that it's getting 10,000, 12,000 people at every rally.
So he's still got huge interest.
So the crowds do represent something.
Look, because there is no doubt his crowd size is by far the largest in the field.
So you think it means something.
Right, because what it really means is, like an international survey last month, we had 57% of all Americans want to move away from the policies of Barack Obama, only 33% want to continue it.
So what's happening is he's focused the idea of Hillary's third term is going to, I mean, Hillary's going to be Barack Obama's third term.
He's focused on that.
And his foreign policy speech that he made, he really was very critical of President Obama.
And even President Obama at the correspondence dinner, when he attacks Trump, he's helping Trump.
And in the last week, when you think of what's happened, is you had Kasich, I mean, I don't think the Cruz and Kasich people understood it.
When Kasich said he's not going to play in Indiana, those voters weren't going to go straight to Cruz.
And the Carli Free Arena endorsement, she doesn't bring any delegates.
And you've had these California protests that I think, you know, the average American looks at those things and says, you know, violence at a political rally against Trump, you know, they get mad and they start rallying to him.
And he's had these huge rallies in Indiana.
And I think Trump has had a good past couple weeks and a good times.
Whatever he learned out of Wisconsin, he's learned well.
And he's focusing his message.
And the thing about Hillary Clinton is every vote where they disapprove of Barack Obama or they want to go in a different direction is a vote where it's available to Trump that if he can get down his negatives, he will be able to take advantage of that.
And so what is your prediction then for Indiana tomorrow?
Let me run through some of these polls.
Real clear politics average has Trump plus 7.8.
You have the NBC poll that was Trump plus 15.
And this isn't even included.
They don't include the Investor Business Daily poll that had him up by 19.
ARG has him plus 9.
Clout Research has him plus 2.
I don't know them very well.
CBS NewsUGov has Trump plus 5.
Fox News plus 8.
Then you have this IPFW down center poll, Cruz plus 16.
Right.
What do you make of it?
Is it an outlier or is it maybe an indication that has not been picked up by other pollsters?
No, it's been trending towards Trump.
And you have the NBC Maris poll, which is a good poll that they had.
Plus 15.
Right.
Plus 15.
And Kasich going down.
And then there's a Gravis poll out today that is 379 likely Republican primary voters.
It's 4427.
It's a bit on the high end for Trump.
But it shows that it looks like Kasich withdrawing from Indiana has actually helped Trump more than it's helped Cruz.
And it looks like Trump has momentum going into the.
It's funny you say that because a lot of times I've been watching these people all throughout this process.
I'm watching people on TV and how they literally say, well, if so-and-so gets out, well, if you add so-and-so's numbers out, they'll all go to so-and-so.
And it's never ever worked out that way.
I've had you on the program discussing this insanity.
You know, I was watching somebody was talking about, well, here's Trump's in the number of delegates Trump won, and here's the number of delegates the other 17 guys have won.
And as you can see, there's more people that don't want Trump than do want Trump.
And I'm thinking, well, that's 16 people against one.
Yeah, right.
And not to mention, too, In that NBC Maris poll, 58% said they disapproved of the alliance between Kasich and Cruz.
And you're exactly right.
I mean, these voters are not monolithic.
They don't all of a sudden, one getting out, oh, that we're all going to vote against Trump.
Trump is actually splitting the various votes between Kasich and between Cruz.
And again, you're seeing that in these surveys right now.
And the polls, the polls we did for Senator Long, he's a good conservative.
He's a Republican in Indiana.
And for his majority that we've done around the state, what I don't think they realized was the Kasich voters were moderates.
The Cruz voters were the very, very social issue conservatives.
And Trump was in the middle between the two of them in the somewhat conservative land.
So when Kasich says, I'm not playing here, ideologically on the issues, Kasich voters who want their vote to count were more likely to go to Trump than they were to Cruz.
So the people that say, oh, it's all anti-Trump, they didn't look at the polls.
And every state's different.
They just haven't, you know, they haven't looked at the polls.
And not only that, Sean, a really interesting point about the exit polls in Pennsylvania.
And the Republican primary voters in Pennsylvania, they're very conservative.
There's some similarities with Indiana.
73% were self-described conservatives that voted in the Pennsylvania poll.
And the number that would scare me the most if I was Ted Cruz is he lost by 30 points among self-described conservatives to Trump in Pennsylvania.
And Trump beat him by 25 points among evangelicals in Pennsylvania.
That's a real problem.
And what that tells you is that conservative Christian base that was supposed to be Ted Cruz's, which quite honestly he got, and that was the reason why he won a place like why he won Iowa, he's not getting that right now.
And Trump is actually doing better among conservatives and evangelicals than Ted Cruz is.
What do you think the reaction is going to be after tomorrow?
Is he there then the presumptive nominee?
Do you see a case or scenario where John Kasich and Ted Cruz decide that, okay, maybe it's time to get out?
I don't see that.
No, they said they're both going through.
But Trump, he's got almost 1,000 delegates right now.
He's got 996.
And Cruz only has 565.
And if he won every delegate in Indiana, my math would have him at about 184 short.
Well, there's a path.
There's a path, I think.
There's 57 delegates in Indiana, and it's a winner-take-most.
So if Trump has this double-digit win there, he's going to get those 57 delegates, so that puts him over 1,000, and he's—with California— Then he's at like 1,050.
Yeah, yeah.
And he's got a path to winning on a first ballot.
So, you know, it makes it really hard for Kasich and Cruz to be able to.
Do you think even at that time if he gets to the magic number at that point the people get out, or do they start trying to flip delegates behind the scenes like we saw in Arizona this weekend?
And aren't most of the delegates anyway?
They're still bound on the first vote, right?
They're bound, but you get some insiders saying, oh, it may not mean that or something like that.
And Cruz is still winning the delegate selections like you saw in Arizona this weekend.
Where the second ballot, you know, he'll go up.
But it looks like there won't be a second ballot if Trump keeps doing what he's doing.
And it wasn't just in Arizona.
It was also in Virginia and Missouri.
I think when you looked at the three states, Arizona, Virginia, and Missouri, Cruz actually on Saturday got 68 out of the 92 delegates.
But with all that being said, I think one, when Trump gets over 1,000, which he probably will after Indiana, I think there's going to be a real psychological effect on that.
And he has to win.
He only has to win less than half the delegates between now and...
He's at that point now where I think it's, you know, if you look at bound, unbound remaining delegates, he's at like 42%.
And John and I, we're obviously not, we don't have a, you know, we don't have a dog in this fight right now.
But with that being said, if I was Donald Trump, I would really pivot into it and start focusing my messaging against Hillary Clinton.
I would basically declare myself the winner.
I would keep my focus on her, start talking about the issues that really matter to folks, like national security, the economy, taxes, immigration, Obamacare.
Before we get to that pivot point, let me go back for a second.
Last week, Nate Silver, and I'm not the biggest fan of 538, but I do check it out like I check out everything else.
Last week, he had Ted Cruz the likelihood of him winning Indiana at 58%.
Now their forecast is if you use the polls only, it's 97% Trump.
If it's the polls plus their forecast, it's still 83 to 17 percent that Trump will win it.
What changed in a week's time?
I think it was quite honestly looking at they look at the media polls, and he kind of does an average of that.
That one poll that you were citing before that was done by the one college, I think it was, you know, University of Indiana, Purdue, and Fort Wayne, that was the outlier there, and I think he was factoring more of that in there.
But the interesting part about that poll was, you know, that was done over two weeks' time.
They started that poll a week before they even started voting in all the I-95 primaries last week.
Well, then let me ask this.
All these people that say they're never Trump, never Trump, and we saw the poll that came out last week that suggested that there's going to be, if it's Hillary and Trump, there'd be a high percentage of people in both parties that either stay home or want to go third party.
And you have about 10% Democrats switching to Republican, 10% Republicans switching to Hillary.
Do you think in the end it works out that way?
Or is this at ⁇ are we asking the question at the wrong time when people are most emotional about things?
It's going to change.
I mean, when you look at it, I mean, the last time we asked the National Survey, Trump had a 65 unfavorable, Hillary had a 57.
30% were unfavorable to both.
If they were unfavorable to both, both, they voted for Trump 39 to 35.
But it's going to change.
It's like those of us who are older, like Sean, you and Jim are younger than me.
We remember in 1980, Reagan had big.
I voted in 1980 for the first time, Smarty Pants.
So, well, I beat you to it in 76 for Reagan.
See, that's why you are fatter and older than I am.
But in 1980, Reagan wasn't ahead until he met him in a debate and said, there you go again.
And the country just shut the lights out on Jimmy Carter because of Iran, the economy.
Everything was bad.
And the hidden number in this poll, and the polls that are coming up, is whether you disapprove the job Obama's doing or not.
All right, so last final question.
I've said up to this point, hypotheticals don't mean a whole lot.
There seems to be some movement in that area.
If it's Hillary and Trump, assuming these polls in Indiana turn out being right, who's going to win that race?
I think Trump can win it.
I think Trump can win it.
I didn't ask you who can win it, but either one of them can win it.
Who's going to win it?
He should win it because his numbers are easier to change than hers.
We've known her a long time, and she has high negatives that are entrenched, that she has this big negative that you think she's not telling the truth.
Trump can actually undo his negatives.
And that's going to be the challenge for the Trump campaign because the very folks that Obama won with, you know, millennials, young people, Latinos, that's where Donald Trump, in all reality, in all honesty right now, has some of his biggest negatives.
But they are also not overly enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton.
That's going to be his challenge.
He's going to need to figure out a way to go in, get more Latino voters.
He can't get less than, you know, he can't do what Mitt Romney did, where he only got 27% of Latinos.
He wants to get up to around 35, 40%, and that's what he's going to have to do.
Well, this head-to-head matchup, Hillary Clinton was down 20-some-odd percent among black Americans versus where Obama was.
Is she going to get the black vote out?
I mean, she's trying to play the race card today.
Yeah, she might actually lose in Indiana to Bernie.
So it's a close race.
The polls that we didn't talk about, she was only up four points.
Yeah, she's the nominee, though.
She has all the superdelegates.
I mean, that whole process on the Democratic side is just rigged.
She's it.
All right, guys.
The only question is whether she'll be indicted either as president or as candidate, one or the other.
That could always happen.
Well, not as president after the new president gets in.
But that goes back to your previous question about can Trump win?
Yeah, he can.
He's got to get him more focused on issues, but you're also going to see things like Benghazi, I think, is going to be a real thorn in her side in the presidential race because I think she's going to have real problems with not just the Republicans on Benghazi.
I think she's going to have problems with family members who unfortunately were killed in Benghazi.
So it's going to be a tough issue, and I think it makes her really vulnerable in the general.
All right, guys.
Thank you both.
John, Jim, who's always late, McLaughlin, thank you so much for being with us.
I was early this time.
Yeah, shocking.
Amazing.
One time doesn't make you on time.
Thank you very much.
For example, we've got the bright new face of the Democratic Party here tonight, Mr. Bernie Sanders.
Bernie, you look like a million bucks.
Or to put it in terms you'll understand, you look like 37,000 donations of $27 each.
I am hurt though, Bernie, that you've been distancing yourself a little from me.
I mean, that's just not something that you do to your comrade.
All right, 25 now till the top of the hour, 800-941-SHAWN.
You want to be a part of the program.
That was from the White House Correspondence Dinner.
I did watch it, and what's the guy's name?
Larry Whitmore.
I've never watched his show before.
I think 90% of his humor, so-called humor, was about race.
Got a little monotonous very fast.
Anyway, joining us, Patrick J. Buchanan.
Sir, how are you?
Fine.
That was a funny line the president had about Comrade Bernie.
Comrade Bernie, Comrade Obama.
I mean, the two peas in a pod.
Everybody forgets the Frank Marshall Davis, the Alinsky, the Acorn influence, the Reverend Rydel influence, the Bernadine Dorn and Bill Ayers influence.
I never forgot it, Pat.
Well, I will say, I mean, the president's about done now, but I will say when he gets up there at those dinners, he's got, not only does he have outstanding writers, he's probably a good writer himself, but it was very, very funny, and he delivers his lines very well, Sean.
And I have to say, I mean, everything he said, it's like the gridiron dinner where they singe, but they don't burn.
But that other fellow up there, I thought it was very potty-mouthed, and I thought it was a potty mouthed.
You're really showing your age here, Pat.
Potty mouthed.
Geez.
Let me say this.
I'm surprised that no one walked out of there.
I mean, I watched the whole thing, and I couldn't believe it was, I mean, look, everybody's fair game for having fun at their expense.
But I thought a lot of it was crude.
A lot of it was heavy on the race card stuff.
A lot was racial.
A lot.
And it was potty mouthed.
You know, I'm very proud of this fact, and I doubt you know this about me.
So I'm now in my 20th year on the Fox News channel.
I'm not sure if you're aware of that.
And I've never been to a White House correspondence dinner, and I'm very proud having never gone.
Well, I will say that I started going back in, I guess in the first, in the early Nixon years, very early Nixon years, and I went into a number of them.
I think one of the last ones I was there was when I was running against George H.W. Bush, and when he got up and said that Pat Buchanan's had the best line of the campaign in Michigan, where he said, Ick Ben Ein Mercedes Oner.
Wow.
Wow.
Okay, you remember everything, Pattik and Sean.
You'll never forget those.
I can see Pat's taking that one to the grave one day.
Well, anyway, let's go to the campaign.
Indiana is tomorrow.
You're looking at the polls.
I'm looking at the polls.
All have Trump ahead anywhere between 2 and 19, except for one that has Cruz up by 16.
And we just had Jim and John McLaughlin on.
They believe it's an outlier.
You have written a column recently.
The headline was, only an act of God can stop Trump now, but that's from the nomination.
Can he win the do you think the nominating process is over?
I think, as I said, barring celestial intervention, Trump is going to be the nominee of the Republican Party.
I think he's going to win Indiana, and I think he's going to win California, and I think he's going to win New Jersey.
And I don't think they can take it away from him.
And I do believe that if he is nominated, he has a chance of being elected the next president of the United States.
And the reason I say that is that Trump has a, someone put it this morning, a non-traditional appeal.
He has an appeal on these, if you will, the issues of the trade issue, the immigration issue, the stay out of foreign wars issue, the populism, the nationalism that Republicans don't normally have and that have real appeal in states like Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and some of the others that we've lost for six straight times, Sean.
And there's something else.
Let me say this.
Trump, whatever you say about it, is a very arresting, interesting, exciting race.
People are talking about it.
Did you hear what he said today?
Are they going to come back on this?
Everybody is following this like an NFL season.
And whereas on the other side, I mean, nobody is excited about what, whether you're for Hillary or not, nobody is excited about what she represents or offers the nation.
If you look at just the voting numbers, Trump is on a path to get more votes than any GOP candidate in the history of the GOP primaries.
And Hillary's down anywhere from 20 to 60 percent in every state that has voted so far.
And not only that, Trump is winning now by 50 and 60 percent when Republican turnout has been greater than any series of primaries and caucuses in history.
People are tremendously interested in some of them coming to vote against Trump, obviously, but tremendous numbers of non-participants in politics and usual non-voters are coming out in primaries because he has really excited the nation.
And I think one of the main two of the main reasons are obviously the border, securing that, but these lost jobs, lost factories, lost income, the fact that the middle class is drifting down and the well-to-do seem to be doing extremely well.
So I think all these issues really raise a potential that you can hear in Democratic voices when they're saying, look, don't take this thing for granted.
This is not going to be a walkover.
I mean, we may win this thing and we may win it big, but I think they fear they could lose it.
I know they fear they can lose it.
I absolutely positively know beyond any shadow of a doubt that they fear that.
What do you think about the look, it's been very intense between, especially between Senator Cruz and Donald Trump.
Right.
And you've got a Never Cruise movement.
You've got a Never Trump movement, which is bigger than the Never Cruise movement.
Do you think if, in fact, what you're predicting happens and he becomes the nominee, do you think he's going to be able to win over those Cruz supporters?
And how would you recommend he do it?
I think you all, obviously, if you win and the other fellow drops out or concedes, which I think Cruz will not do until after California, I think Kasich might leave after Indiana.
I think that Trump makes the call to him.
But in the last analysis, Sean, I think what's going to bring Cruz around is there's a possibility that Trump loses if he's the nominee in November.
And if he does, if Cruz has not come around and has not endorsed him, his fate will be that of the Rockefeller-Romney-Scranton crowd who walked away from Barry Goldwater in 1964 when Nixon and Reagan were out there fighting their hearts out and going down to defeat with Barry.
And Nixon and Reagan got the presidency twice, each of them.
And those fellows were never heard from again.
Well, I keep reading these predictions.
I mean, I don't know if the analogy fits.
I mean, there are some people.
You have to endorse the candidate or the next time you run.
I mean, there are a lot of people who said, look, maybe we didn't like Trump or we did like him and you walked away from us when we needed you, and now we're not coming with you.
I mean, I'm not endorse Cruz.
No matter how bitter he is, I would tell him that at that convention at some point, he's got to endorse.
You know, Gene McCarthy and the Democratic Party held up endorsing Humphrey in 1968 until the final days, and he never went anywhere again.
Let me ask this, because I think this is really important.
Don't you think there's got to be a way that as unconventional as Trump has been.
Don't you think there's a way to bring Ted Cruz into any type of position that would satisfy like, for example, he's going to name a list.
Again, I'm only going on your assumption that you think Trump has this wrapped up and, quote, only an act of God stops him.
So if you're right.
What if he said in his judicial philosophy speech, which apparently is coming up soon, that Ted Cruz would be my top pick for the Supreme Court?
Would that be nuts?
I would not.
That would make that an issue of the campaign.
And, you know, I'm not sure you would want to shift and make that an issue in the campaign.
Well, he said he's going to name names.
He said he's going to give a list, and only from that list will he choose a Supreme Court nominee.
So he's going to be naming names, so it's going to be a name.
Well, he's not going to—I would not say I would name Cruz.
I do think that you'd say, look, Ted Cruz, who is, you know, who knows the Supreme Court and Supreme Court issues and has written on them and spoken on them as well as any others, is someone a lot of people will take a look at.
I would say that, but I would not go so far as to say, I'm going to name Ted Cruz to the Supreme Court.
I will say, did you hear Biden's line?
What's that?
Biden says Obama should appoint Cruz to the Supreme Court because pretty soon he would have eight vacancies.
All right.
All right.
It's easy, SunShot.
What are you...
I mean, here's the thing.
I mean, in my view, I mean, probably, I don't mean to joke, but a lot of senators might support Cruz up there himself, given what you hear about how popular it is.
But let me be serious.
Ted Cruz, clearly, I mean, he's outstanding in his academic career.
He's outstanding in terms of his discussion of these issues.
He's been a clerk on the Supreme Court.
I mean, he's worked on the court.
He's argued nine times before the court.
He's clearly qualified, and he is clearly of the precise mindset Set or with regard to judicial items that you want on the Supreme Court.
But I would hesitate to name specifically I'm going to appoint him.
Yeah.
No.
Well, he might be part of the list of 12 or 13 people that he lays out.
Who would be a good VP?
For anybody, and I want you to think out of the box a little bit here.
Who do you think, and I'm just assuming for a minute based on Kasich's actions that Kasich doesn't want it.
Who would be a good VP for either one of them?
Well, I think you need the, you know, I would start down the road, and I would take first, you know, there is an advantage to having someone who has real, I mean, who would really reassure the party base and the establishment and the rest of them, you know, and can deal with those folks.
Frankly, like a Cheney for Bush, okay, when W came up to D.C.
And that's one consideration.
The second is, you've got to win this thing, Sean.
And I would be looking closely at someone who could strengthen me in the real battleground states, which are hopefully not, I mean, Trump is, if he's a nominee, will take Texas himself.
He has to.
But I would look for people who had real credentials and might be able to bring a state out of the Democratic package.
Well, the person that would come to mind the most, if that's your thinking, would be John Kasich.
Well, Kasich's Ohio, and you've got to presume you can win Ohio yourself.
So are you looking at maybe Scott Walker in Wisconsin?
Well, but he didn't, I mean, then I'd have to take a real look at why he slipped and fell just coming out of the gate.
He certainly knows how to win that state, though.
He knows how to win the state, but he doesn't know how to win on the presidential field.
I mean, he's shown that.
I'm very high.
I thought he did a great job with unions again and again and again.
What have you brought out of some of the old days?
What if you brought back people like Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani?
Well, that's interesting.
What do you think about Newt Gingrich's view?
Well, I don't know.
I think Newt's got a lot of, I don't know who Newt brings you that you don't already have.
Well, would Newt Gingrich reassure conservatives?
I mean, look, he's the last guy that balanced the budget.
He's the guy that got welfare reform done, probably the most consequential speaker in our lifetime by far.
My guess is that Trump may obviously put him on the list, but you're mentioning, when you mention Rudy, for example, I'm on him for Attorney General.
I've been on the social issues, and a lot of conservatives are going to be very confused.
How about Attorney General to prosecute Hillary?
Oh, listen, they got a lot of guys for Attorney General.
Go back to Newt for a second.
I'm not sure if it's Chris Christie, one of the good things.
We're not getting ahead of ourselves in terms of winning this thing, Sean.
Well, I could always dream.
We're all picking the cabinet.
Listen, listen, I'm just going down that road.
You're the one that has the column, only an act of God can stop Trump.
Somebody asked me, I think it's, as they said of Calvin Coolidge, somebody said his career showed definite signs of celestial intervention, you know?
All right.
Well, I don't underestimate Hillary, just to backtrack here a second.
I really don't.
I think she's capable, and she's tough, and she'll be a...
She's a horrible candidate, though.
She's a terrible candidate on the stump, but she is not bad in debates.
And she has held her own against her own in 2008.
And frankly, I think she was a much better candidate in 2008 when she came back from those 12 defeats.
I was immensely impressed with her.
I mean, as a candidate, came back, one Pennsylvanian, and one Kentucky, and one West Virginia, and was, I think, winning Ohio.
And Obama's lucky he had a better ground game.
Yeah, no doubt about it.
But she doesn't have her husband's interpersonal skills.
No, and she doesn't have the skills on the podium that Obama has.
That Obama or Bill Clinton had.
I mean, Bill Clinton, you remember the debate with George H.W. Bush?
Sure.
He moves away from the podium and he's over there chatting away.
He was really a 60s guy.
Oh, he was a natural.
As the 60s generation is a baby boot.
I want to literally come and page.
I care.
Listen, I'm going to take care of all this.
I promise you, things haven't been going good.
And listen, if you want a tour, sweetheart, after this, I'll take you backstage.
All right, I got to go.
Patrick J. Buchanan, God bless you, my friend.
You take it easy, my friend.
The bosses are trying to run it.
You know, it's a rigged party.
It's a whole rigged situation.
The bosses, like in Arizona, the bosses, I win Arizona in a landslide.
I beat Cruz so badly, it's almost ridiculous.
And then the bosses have delegates that have a delegate, a crooked delegate system where they go in and they try and get delegates so they can play games.
But I tell you what, the voters wouldn't stand for it.
You know, when you win by millions of votes, and that's what I've been saying.
It's a rigged system.
The bosses want to pick whoever they want to pick.
That's the purpose of going through the primary system.
I appreciate you coming out.
I appreciate you coming out and standing up.
And I think this entire process, I think anyone that wants to be president, others are the people of this state to come in front of you and ask for your support.
And I'm running to be everyone's president.
Those who vote for me, even though those who vote.
We don't want you.
Well, you're entitled to your views, sir, and I will respect it.
In fact, I will.
Do the math.
I will prove that.
You've asked Casey's to drop out.
It's your turn.
Well, take your own words.
Now, I'm curious, sir.
Time to drop out.
When Donald doesn't get to 1237, he's going to call it.
Donald's definitely going to get to 1237.
He's going to get more than 1237.
Let me ask you something, sir.
What do you like about Donald?
Everything.
Give me one.
Everything.
Give me one.
Anything, anyway.
Donald Trump up to the wall.
Okay, the wall.
That's the main thing.
All right, great.
Ted's building the wall.
All right, hold on a second.
And you know on the wall that Donald told the New York Times editorial board, he's not going to depart anymore.
Once again, line 10.
Well, sir, she'll take down ISIS.
She'll take down.
Civilized people don't just scream and yell at each other.
I'm not yelling at you.
I'm not blowing.
How did all the people want more fun?
Let me tell you.
The New York Times recorded the whole thing.
But Jimmy Stacey.
Queer politicians defeat.
Lion 10.
Man, things are getting heated on the campaign trail.
There's no doubt about that.
News Roundup Information Overload Hour of the Sean Hannity Show, 800-941.
Sean, if you want to be a part of the program, welcome back to the program D.C. McAllister, senior contributor to the Federalist and a Ted Cruz supporter.
Jonathan Gillam is a serious radio host, former Navy SEAL, Trump supporter.
Welcome both of you back to the show.
Thank you.
DC, how important for the Cruz campaign is Indiana?
Indiana is very important, but it's not the end of the road.
Okay, so in other words, if he doesn't win, you don't think that's a big setback.
It's a big setback, but it's not the end.
The end is when Donald Trump gets 1237.
So in other words, the race is going to go on.
You're going to go through June 7th or until that date when Donald Trump gets to 1237.
Well, let me ask you.
I mean, I'm asking.
Are you the nominee when you have 1,200?
No.
You're the nominee when you have 1237.
So the race isn't over until someone gets 1237.
There's certain things that we can look at.
For example, if you look at polls in California, latest poll is Trump up by 27.
He's up in the state of Oregon.
And I saw some numbers out of Nebraska that he was doing.
I think it was up in that state as well.
So my only question is this.
I don't care if anyone stays in as long as they want to stay in.
I think it's up to the campaigns to make that decision.
But how do we unify the party at the end of this process?
Well, like I said, whoever gets a 1237 first is the winner.
So we agree on that.
We unify, I think we unify around Never Hillary.
And that needs to be the message going forward, no matter who the nominee is.
And we need to focus on her, defeat her, be vicious about it, be bold, be outspoken, and be fearless.
And I think we haven't seen that in past elections, Sean.
I think we've been too timid in going after the Democrats.
You know what?
Been saying this on Twitter, as I've been fighting people this whole, you know, over the weekend and Friday and Saturday, I mean I honestly I've been saying the same thing everyone says.
I said I from the beginning I'm going to support the nominee and I I'm with you never never Hillary, because if that happens, it's the third term of Obama.
What do you think, Jonathan?
Well, first off, I want to know if that was J.J. Walker screaming in the background on that soundbite.
Dino Might, but you know, I listen, I agree.
First off, I don't really subscribe to the Republican Party the way it stands right now.
I'm a conservative, but I have a real problem with the way that this whole game is being played and I think we all agree that there's an issue with the way that these delegates are being.
No, I don't agree with that.
Well, I agree, I'm.
The United States agrees with it.
There's a big problem with the way that the game is being played for the presidency of the United States.
When you're saying that if he comes in with 1,200 and he's missing 37 delegates, that you're going to have a unified Republican Party, if it goes to a contested convention over 37 votes and then all of a sudden Ted Cruz comes out victor, you think that is going to unify conservatives?
Because here's the real deal, you're not just talking about unifying the Republican Party, you're talking about unifying conservatives.
And so far, this Ted Cruz guy, who says he's a constitutionalist, has done nothing to show the people that he's for the people and by the people in this nomination process.
Well, let me ask you this question, do you think Abraham Lincoln should never have been president?
That's just a ridiculous thing, because it was completely different back then.
The people were not educated like they are now, and I don't agree with contested conventions.
I agree with the Constitution they were, which you think that Ted Cruz would agree with.
That now let me just say, you know, talking to Trump supporters about the primary process is like talking to a woman during a big football game and trying to explain the rules.
Oh, I wouldn't know that because I don't.
I'm a Trump supporter.
I don't judge women.
Hang on, this man knows what I'm talking about.
You know sitting there watching football DC, come on, I know plenty of women that love football.
I love football and I'm sitting, but every guy does.
No one knows more about football than any of us is Tamara Holder.
You're sitting there trying to watch the game and you're going, someone's going.
That's not fair.
What's that rule for?
Well, that's just not fair.
Why can't he do this?
Why can't he do that?
You know stop, understand the rules, play by the game and understand.
I play by the Constitution, which you think Ted Cruz would play by as well, but he is playing by the rules.
Tell me what rules he's broken.
He plays by the rules of the Republican Party, which are completely devious for years.
What rules have he broken?
The Republican Party does not play by the book that the American public wants, the thing that the American entire United States was founded on, which is the Constitution and the way for the people, by the people.
That is not the game that's being played.
It is the representative republic that we have right now.
That's not what happened in Colorado.
Yes, it is what happened in Colorado.
Those delegates were elected by people.
They were grassroots people who were elected, people that were chosen by the Republican Party.
No, they were not chosen.
They were chosen by the people.
They weren't chosen by the RNC.
That's, that's untrue.
You're you're spreading false information.
Look, this isn't.
This isn't false the republic and I had this conversation last week with the cruise supporter.
You know, the Republican Party is A private company.
It is not a government entity.
And what we're talking about right now is the way that they pick the person that the senior elites in the Republican Party want.
And they don't want Donald Trump because he's going to throw a monkey wrench into everything that they're about, which is me, me, me, and give me the money and all the inside stuff for them.
In Colorado, the RNC did not pick those delegates.
Do you understand that?
They were elected by people in precincts.
It's a manipulation of the system.
How is that a moment that you're not answering me?
Let me see if I can clarify.
We have really three separate systems.
You have the caucus system, the primary system, and then the convention system where you have representatives that end up going instead of having the people themselves either caucus or vote in big numbers.
So I personally think it should be caucus or convention.
But with that said, Jonathan, I mean, D.C. is right in the sense that everybody knew what the system was going in.
Now, they've already are changing it back for four years from now.
But did they really?
I mean, we have executives from the Republican Party coming on CNBC in one interview.
This happened several times where they say the people don't pick the candidate, and he said no.
Listen, I don't like the system.
I have talked about three set rules that the Republican Party ought to give the states.
One, you can be a caucus state or a primary state only.
Two, you can be proportional or winner-take-all.
Three, I think, especially on the first ballot, all delegates should be bound, all of them.
So, who do you say should tell the police?
No, no, no, I'm saying, listen.
I'm not clear about what you just said.
No, I'm saying it's a national party, D.C., so I think there can be certain national rules so there's less confusion.
What about state sovereignty?
Well, I just gave you options for the states, but I think when states have the ability to make, like in Pennsylvania, for example, even though it worked out in Trump's favor in that particular case, I don't like the idea, you know, and you go into a ballot box in Pennsylvania and you're voting for delegates and you have no idea who those delegates support.
And meanwhile, let's say in your case, you want to support Ted Cruz.
I think you ought to know which delegates support Ted Cruz and put those names next to them.
But I'm saying going forward, with that said, everybody knew what the system was here.
Now, as it relates to courting of delegates or at the state conventions, if Ted Cruz is persuading his people to become those delegates, and that means on a second ballot, if there ever was one, you can't fault him for that.
He's working hard.
Listen, I'll tell you this.
I think that the Cruz campaign has been working extremely hard at this, but the thing that bothers me exactly, the one little phrase you just said there, courting delegates.
A delegate is supposed to be a representative of a district of people.
There's a point you're making here that I think is on very firm ground, and that is that if the in I think Arizona was not quite two to one, it was a pretty significant margin of victory by Trump.
And yes, I do on the first ballot for sure, they are bound to Donald Trump.
The second ballot is different.
I understand what you're saying.
We've talked about this, D.C. You've been on the program.
We've talked about, well, what can you do as it relates to courting delegates?
What can you offer plane rides, hotel rooms, steak dinners, etc.?
Look, I think both parties, frankly, can clean up their systems a little bit.
I think you would probably agree that it could be done a lot better.
I agree, but I want one thing I want to make a point about the idea of interacting with the delegates because I've talked to delegates, and it's actually they're being campaigned to.
They're like individuals who are being campaigned to by the campaigns.
The campaigns are making a case for their man.
And this is what they do with the public at large, and it's what they do with the delegates.
They're not bribing them or even like buying them anything.
They're saying, hey, here's what I stand for.
Please vote for me because I'm the better candidate.
That's what's going on.
But I don't see how you don't have a problem with that and how Cruz saying that he's a man of the people, how he doesn't have a problem with courting delegates and not courting the people.
See, that's what I'm talking about.
The people believe, the people believe that this system is for them and by them.
And it's not.
It's just, it's absolutely not.
And I don't understand why the Republican Party has not gotten behind this message.
The people in the Republican Party, the conservatives, why they don't insist.
Because the fact is the entire government is manipulated and monopolized by these two entities, the DNC and the RNC.
And this system just shows that it's not for the people by the people.
D.C., I don't think you recognize that the Republican Party is a national party, that the party is actually no party except that it's made up of people.
And that I think to have standardized rules that also allow states to make decisions is important.
But I don't think that every state should be able to go completely rogue on their own is beneficial to a national party.
Does that make sense to you?
I'm really into state sovereignty, and I know that I don't want a national committee coming in and telling North Carolinians what to do.
I don't want to go to the United States.
Well, hang on.
What if a state decides that its representatives, their state legislature, will decide the candidate and not the people?
You don't want that to happen, do you?
Well, I don't, but if that state decides however they want to do it, that's how they do it.
They can choose delegates at a convention, however they want to do it.
That's the sovereignty of the states.
You do not live in this kind of monolithic system that people are suddenly imagining.
I think I'm offering actually a lot more flexibility than you think, but I also think that being a national party in that sense, being made up of the people, that this would guarantee maximum participation of we the people.
But you're for the people.
I'm confused because you don't like the national party dictating, yet you want the national party to be a part of the state.
But I think there can be certain, I think there can be certain standards of which the states have an ability to choose from those select standards without being able to go totally rogue and disenfranchise the participation.
Well, I'm saying any state that has a convention that doesn't allow either a caucus, doesn't allow caucus participation or outright primary participation, I think minimizes the numbers of people that have a say in selecting a candidate.
But that's not true because those delegates were selected.
No, that is.
Well, for example, if you would have had a primary in Colorado, a million people could have voted.
And the way that the convention was designed in Colorado, yet 65,000 people participate.
I would rather have maximum participation.
Those people could have showed up at their precincts and voted for those delegates.
I totally understand.
We're kind of going around in a circle, though.
All right, so what happens tomorrow if do you think Ted Cruz can pull this out, even though the polls seem to be turning against him, especially in the last three days?
Polls have been wrong before, they've been right before, we just don't know.
It could be either way.
And you're on record of saying you're going to support the winner.
But Ted Cruz was asked that question over the weekend.
He did not give an affirmative answer.
What was your reaction to that?
Well, of course, he's not going to say he's going to play to the end until an actual winner is chosen.
But I do remember the first debate.
Everyone was asked to raise their hand.
Including Rubio, who came out and said he would, what was it?
When it was in New York, I can't remember exactly where it was, where he came out and said, I will vote for Trump because I'm not going to pick a socialist and a Marxist.
Well, Rubio said Trump has improved significantly and that he thinks that the will of the people should be, if he's the nominee, that we should stand behind the will of the people.
Well, the will of the people is going to be heard no matter what, even if it's the second ballot.
So I really want to stop it.
I think the will of the people has been heard pretty much since Donald Trump has over a thousand or right at a thousand delegates.
I mean, the fact is the will of the people is we're more educated.
We have smartphones.
We have computers.
Everywhere we go, we're getting information.
And people realize that something is wrong.
That's why Donald Trump has been so successful.
And that's what really, from just a campaign standpoint, really kind of baffles my mind that none of these other people baffles your mind?
Bobbles my mind.
Bobbles.
Bobbles.
Baffles.
What my mind is that you say we're so smart and they have smartphones and they have all this information, yet people in Colorado didn't know to show up at their precincts to pick their delegates and they said the system's rigged.
So are they ignorant or are they wrong?
I've never said the system is rigged.
Not you, Sean.
I'm talking about the Trump supporters.
What I am saying, though, I think you've got to make it easy for people to vote.
And you know why?
Because people are working 18 hours a day.
Everybody I know is busting their ass because they've got to pay the taxes and raise their kids.
Frankly, I have time to just race in, sign my name, do my ballot, and leave me alone at that point.
And they have that.
They have that option.
It shouldn't be a game.
They knew that they could go.
It was an article.
One little article was written on a paper.
We're going around in circles.
I have a responsibility as a Republican member of the United States.
D.C., by the way, you've been a rock star on TV.
We actually have been using D.C. on TV now.
She's a rock star.
Have you enjoyed it?
I have had a lot of fun.
It made your pin fall off.
I've got my mind powers.
You know, is that what it is?
You've made that happen.
All right.
Thank you so much.
You know, I don't even know what to make of some of these Republicans that are losing their minds.
I really don't know what to make of it.
You know, I told you earlier today, George Will has essentially endorsed Hillary Clinton.
Now you got Bill Crystal now trying to encourage a third-party candidacy to stop Trump in the general election, which, of course, would make Hillary president.
Anyway, Crystal has put out a hypothetical shortlist of third-party candidates, including Senator Rubio and Tom Cotton, who could run against Trump if he becomes the Republican nominee.
I mean, why would you do this?
You know, I was always a fan of George Will over the years.
I remember him from this week with David Brinkley years and with Sam Donaldson all those years.
And when Will would battle Donaldson and Kokie Roberts on the panel, he was the lone Reagan defender from so many years ago, and his arguments were stunningly effective, and he usually left everybody else in the dust.
And I wish I could say the same about his latest Washington Post column.
If Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House.
Wow.
Think back how many times over the years the Republican establishment types, I had no idea how much they really hate Tea Party people.
I had no idea how much, and by the way, they hate Cruz as much as Trump.
They'd be doing the same thing, in my view, if it was likely that Cruz was getting the nomination.
They hate anybody but their people, and their people were beaten resounding in this battle.
Now we're going to pick up our toys and go home.
Imagine when Bob Dole ran or John McCain ran or for the people that didn't like Mitt Romney, if they would, well, we're going to run a third-party conservative.
Imagine what their reaction would be.
Now you have somebody that is not in the establishment, two insurgency candidates, and they've done everything that they can do.
And it also confirms what I have been telling you for a long time.
And that is these establishment people are going to work hard to defeat, be it Cruz or Trump as the nominee, so that they can wag their fingers on national TV and tell you, the people, how stupid you are and how dumb you are and how you should have listened to them.
And you should have picked their establishment candidate, which we would have probably watched lose again.
Well, how can you say that, Hannah?
Well, they couldn't beat Cruz and Trump.
None of them.
It's unbelievable to me.
This is now what we have.
He goes on to say, were Trump to be nominated, conservatives would have two tasks.
One would be to help him lose 50 states.
In other words, a punishment for his comprehensive disdain of conservative essentials like the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation's civic life.
Second, conservatives can try to save from the anti-Trump undertow as many senators, representatives, governors, and state legislators as possible.
Trump's nominated.
Republicans working to purge him and his manner from public life will reap the considerable satisfaction of preserving the identity of their 162-year-old party while working to see that they forego only four years of the enjoyment of executive power.
George Will.
And then you got Bill Crystal pushing for a third party, which guarantees Hillary wins.
Look, if Missouri had gone a different way with 2,000 votes, Illinois a little bit different.
It could have been a little different kind of outcome.
But Trump has both been a very good candidate and pretty lucky in winning some key states by a small margin.
Pretty lucky.
And now he looks to be strong.
Let's see what happens in Arizona and so forth.
Yeah, I think a lot of conservatives, some conservatives, I shouldn't exaggerate, are looking at an independent Republican candidate.
You could put someone on the someone could get on the ballot pretty easily.
It's not impossible.
What's the way forward there electorally?
Is that just to stop Donald Trump from being the next president, or could a conservative/slash independent win?
Have you looked at the math there?
I've looked at the math a little.
It would be tough to win, but not impossible.
I think the key number is the one you guys showed a little bit ago, which is how many Republicans don't want to vote for Donald Trump in the general election.
That's something, you know, it's 30, 40% of the time.
I can't say anyway.
How many times have conservatives been told to suck it up with a moderate candidate?
Now, some of you argue, well, all right, well, Ted Cruz is the most conservative candidate in the race.
He's the constitutional.
Okay, but he's got to win.
Tomorrow's probably a must-win day for him in Indiana if he wants to continue on.
Anyway, 800-941, Sean, you want to be a part of the program?
Let's go to Steve in the Poconos in Pennsylvania.
Steve, hi, how are you?
Glad you called.
And welcome to the Sean Hannity Show.
Hey, Sean, how are you doing?
Big-time fan, night and day.
I could talk to you about a lot of things, but I just want to thank you about going out there and with this Pennsylvania primary and putting it out there, the lists, and telling everybody how important it is.
And you inspired me to go out and make my own lists and go get people to go vote.
And you're right.
Many, many people, clueless, clueless.
Well, I got to tell you, I've gotten a lot of positive feedback.
It was not to favor any one candidate over the other.
We put all the people that were supporting Donald Trump, all the people supporting Ted Cruz, and the very few people, if any, that were supporting John Kasich, or at least publicly announcing they were for Kasich.
And the idea that Pennsylvania thinks it's okay to put a list of unattached delegates on a ballot, having no idea which candidates they would support, to me, is malpractice.
They're not doing a service for the people of their state.
They have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of the lives that people are living and how busy we all are.
All right, back to our phones.
Naples, Florida, Fox 925, Fox News Radio.
What's up, Shelly?
How are you?
Good, Sean.
Love the show.
How's things down in Paradise?
I know.
I met you down here in Paradise one time at one of your favorite places downtown.
What place was it?
Can I say it on the air?
Yeah, sure.
Why not?
Chops.
I was probably there at a table of 50, right?
You were.
Yeah, I know.
You're in good company.
I usually go with entourages of family members and friends when we go down.
I don't get to go very often.
My family was down there last week.
They had a great time.
Yeah, it's lovely.
Well, come back down.
Thank you very much.
So I am a Trump supporter.
I'm a die-hard Republican.
I am a political junkie.
It talks day and night.
I donate.
I stand with signs at location voting areas.
I do campaign callouts.
And I think what makes America so great is that we all still believe that we do have a voice.
And I've dragged my husband and my family and my friends into this political phrase, especially this year, saying, Look, if you want to complain or if you want to make a change and you want, you have to have a voice.
You have to get involved.
You have to be passionate.
So if the establishment or the RNC does not support, once again, I hope it's Trump, but whoever it is that has the most delegates and they go into a, whether you call it brokered or contested convention, I think I speak volumes for probably a lot of people.
I do not ever, ever see myself having any interest in politics or supporting a candidate and maybe even voting because it will prove to me that really there is no voice of America.
And I think it'll just be a sad day for the country.
Well, I got to tell you, I mean, if Trump did two things, let's say that he eliminated Obamacare and he actually built the wall.
He can't spend any more money than Obama's spend in terms of building up our nation's debt.
But, you know, those are two massive things that would improve the country.
Those two things.
And I'll add a third thing, which he's told me in just about every interview, which is he'd make America energy independent.
And, you know what?
I don't understand those that are so bitter that their people lost.
I understand the emotional tie, the emotional process people go through in picking a candidate.
I really do.
I have great compassion for those people that put themselves out there and eventually they don't get the nomination and how hard that process has got to be for them and their families.
They put their heart and their soul.
It's not easy running for president.
And I can tell you because I've seen it up close and personal too many times.
It is a great sacrifice and toll on one and one's family to put yourself out there like this.
But I also think that the process being so hard is actually a good thing because this is the hardest job that exists.
And if you can't handle the process, you're not going to be able to handle the job.
All right, let's get to our busy phones.
Blake in Los Angeles.
Blake, welcome to the Sean Hannity Show.
What's up, sir?
Thank you so much for taking my call, Sean.
I appreciate everything you do for us, brother.
By the way, next time you're at In-N-Out Burger, order one in my name and get a double-double lettuce wrap animal style.
You got it.
I'll get the Sean special.
Sean Special.
That's what we're going to call it.
What's going on?
Hey, last the 28th, that Thursday was National Take Your Son and Daughters to Work Take.
So I took the opportunity to pull my kids out of school, and we just headed down to Orange County to feed Donald Trump at his rally, and it was awesome.
Was that the Costa Mesa one or no?
Yeah, the Costa Mesa one on Fairgrounds.
Did you see all of the people with the Mexican flags?
We saw some as we were coming out, but I'm a very overprotected father, and I made sure to avoid all that.
Yeah, that's because you're smart.
Of course you've avoided it.
Why would you walk in the middle of that with your kids?
That'd be dumb.
Exactly.
But the protesters, they did a great job.
You know, right on queue, they just solidified Mr. Trump's message on, you know, why we don't want this kind of people in the country, these illegal immigrants.
And so, you know, they did a great job.
But Mr. Trump also did an amazing job.
My kids were so excited to see him.
You know, they were on their chair yelling and screaming.
And, you know, he's just done a wonderful job getting my kids excited about this country, you know, the process and his candidacy.
I will tell you this, and I've been to all of these different rallies around the country with everybody.
And sometimes people don't know it, but I'm actually off stage on the side, and I've watched a lot of the candidates.
It's really an unbelievable experience to take your kids to see all of these people.
It's a great experience, and I'm glad that this year we had so many opportunities to be able to allow people sort of in that environment with the many town halls that we've done.
And it's been a lot of fun, and I think a lot of people really have enjoyed it.
All right, we're going to put two callers on here at once, Jason.
Pay close attention.
We've got CJ is in Charleston, South Carolina.
Sandy is in El Centro, California.
They both seem to disagree.
CJ, say hi to Sandy.
Sandy, say hi to CJ.
Hi.
Hey, Sandy.
All right, CJ, we'll start with you.
What's your point?
Okay, hey, I'm just giving you a call because I hear you every day, and I hear, you know, you want to be fair to everybody.
I think Donald Trump's given everybody a bit of a sales pitch that they're falling for.
I hear him come on your show and talk about the penny plan, which is obviously your biggest thing.
And I appreciate you for sticking up for conservatism.
But the reason I'm never Trump is because Trump is diluting conservatism on issues such as abortion, on gay rights.
The list goes on and on.
So I think it's a different way.
So you don't believe in that.
Wait, wait, you don't believe that he's, so you don't believe him.
I've asked him the abortion question many times.
You don't believe that he's pro-life, but makes the exception for rape and incest.
You don't believe him.
Sean, you and I both know that the Bible says you will know them by their fruits, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruits.
And a man that spent his money bribing politicians and brags about the public.
No, no, but listen, but you're changing topics on me.
I'm not my passion for conservatives.
CJ, you're changing topics on me.
You don't believe him when he says he's pro-life now, that he changed his view on the topic.
You don't believe him.
Well, should I believe somebody who's changed their view on it, or should I believe somebody that's been fighting?
Listen, why are you fighting with me?
I'm just asking a simple question.
You don't believe him.
No, sir, I don't believe that.
Okay, that's fair.
I think it's a human pile of.
Sandy, what's your reaction to this?
I think people can change.
I know as a young girl, I had a totally different opinion than I do as an older woman.
So I do see that people can change.
And the reason I like Trump is because he's putting Americans first.
And illegal immigration is a big problem with me.
We've got to change that.
I also believe that we've got to give the power to the people.
And he's got the most votes, the most delegates.
And if we give the nomination to him, or if he earns it by having that, then I think we're going to win in November.
If we overturn the will of the people and give it to someone who has not won the people, like Ted Cruz, then you're just not going to have the backing.
May I respond in substance?
Yeah.
And okay, so with immigration, my problem with it, Sean, is you give Ted the tough questions, but you don't give Trump the tough questions about what he really thinks about immigration, what the tape that the New York Times won't release about it.
And then if you're in the middle of the day, slow down.
You can't say things that aren't true.
I have asked him about it, but go ahead.
Okay, okay, well, I apologize.
And lastly, I was going to say, I'm all for power to the people.
Ted Cruz is the last leader of the liberty movement.
And so when Donald Trump talks about national-run health care with health care savings accounts, that's referring to Sololinsky's principle that Hillary Clinton cites in her in Rules for Radicals.
Well, healthcare savings accounts actually come from the book Patient Power that was put together by the libertarian think tank, the Cato Institute.
He answered yes to yes.
I would want nationally run.
They got him in a gotcha question because he hadn't studied the issue far enough, Sean.
On both sides of every issue, I want someone who's going to be a good person.
So let me ask you, last question.
If it's Hillary versus Trump, who are you going to vote for?
I'm going to vote for a libertarian candidate, my friend.
I want someone who represents my values and not someone who's going to dilute the conservative, the conservative movement.
That would be a half a vote for Hillary, in my opinion.
I say that respectfully.
You know, Sean, mathematically eliminated means that the voters have already said no to Ted Cruz.
That's what that means.
Now, people say mathematically eliminated.
They don't get the true meaning of that.
All right, I'm going to let you both go.
As you can hear, there's a lot of passion on all ends of this, and I completely understand it.
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