Sean Hannity Show - Will The Trail End In Indiana?

May 2, 2016 - Sean Hannity Show

01:28:40

Will The Trail End In Indiana?

The road to the White House goes through Indiana tomorrow andmost of the polls are showing Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton withcommanding leads. Sean breaks down the contest including astrange outlier poll that shows Cruz with a 16 point leadinIndiana. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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	This is an iHeart Podcast.
	This is the Sean Hannity Show podcast.
	By the way, my month of punishment being off Twitter is over, and I've been unleashing again in my Twitter rants, which a lot of people seem to really enjoy.
	Because people, you know what, are rude on Twitter.
	And they're anonymous.
	And so I'm like, you know what?
	I can be rude too.
	I can be rude right back.
	You know, are you a jackass in real life or just on Twitter?
	That's one of my favorite lines.
	Stuff like that.
	Anyway, glad you're with us.
	We've got the polsters.
	John and Jim McLaughlin are going to be on the program today.
	A lot of poll numbers to go over with you today.
	Uh Patrick J. Buchanan.
	He thinks that Trump has this locked up.
	Uh Nate Silver, this is pretty in interesting over at 538.
	Last week he had Indiana 58% chance that Cruz wins it.
	And today it's 97% chance based on the polls and 83% chance that Trump wins it based on polls and his analysis.
	Boy, he changed pretty quick.
	A lot of poll numbers come out over the weekend, and I'll go through some of that with you.
	There also seems to be a shift in some of these hypothetical matchups.
	It started last week with the battleground poll that had dead even Hillary and Donald Trump, and now there is a Rasmussen poll out today where Trump is actually defeating Hillary 41 to 39.
	Now I've always said I didn't think hypothetical matchups meant a whole lot at this time, but there seems to be a shift where, you know, the real clear politics average would be Hillary plus eight against Trump, but now these po there seems to be something happening on the ground at least in those polls.
	So we're going to continue to watch that really closely.
	I will say this before I go over all these polls in the state of Indiana and everything that's gonna we can expect to happen tomorrow.
	Um how many times have I said on this program that I believe establishment types would rather see Hillary Clinton win so they can wag their finger in the face of the people and say you shouldn't have picked Trump, you shouldn't have picked Ted Cruz.
	I have said it is absolutely the same for both of them.
	Both are hated in a huge way by the establishment.
	And they have tried everything they can do, every step of the way to stop either one of these two from getting the nomination.
	Well, I now have some evidence proving that what I've been saying is true.
	Let me start with George Will.
	I gotta tell you, this is very disappointing to me.
	If you think back how many establishment candidates the Republican Party is jammed down your throat over the years.
	You know, you can remember Bob Dole was a horrible presidential candidate.
	He just was not very good.
	He was lackluster, lacking vision.
	It was just weak.
	He was the next guy in line, and and look what happened.
	And then we had the same thing with John McCain.
	He was not a good presidential candidate.
	I think Mitt Romney of the three was much better.
	Mint Romney, I'm I am convinced Mitt Romney could have been a very good president.
	I am convinced of that.
	But Mitt Romney got bad advice, especially before the third debate, and he took his foot off the gas.
	You can't take your foot off the gas in a presidential election.
	You just can't.
	And I mean, in this first debate, he crushed Obama, destroyed him.
	In second debate, he won too, but for stupid Candy Crowley over at CNN.
	And that turned out to be misinformation on our part.
	Right, Candy?
	Obama appeals to Candy Crowley was dead wrong.
	And then in the third debate, the foreign policy debate, it was horrible.
	We could have won that election.
	And that's frustrating.
	Well, now I don't want to say that I'm right.
	I'm hoping these people come around.
	Now the polls do have a pretty significant lead emerging in the final days leading up to Indiana, but we'll know more tomorrow night.
	So I'm not going to make any predictions.
	It was one poll that had Cruz up by 16 in Indiana.
	You have another poll, but then you have all these other polls where Trump is up 19, 17, 15, 9, 8, and 5.
	So there's only one poll that showed Cruz leading.
	So you know, if you go by based on the polls, Nate Silver, all these things, it it seems the momentum in Indiana has shifted to Trump in a pretty significant way.
	But we'll know more Tomorrow.
	But here's what really bothers me, and it's the same would be the case if it was Ted Cruz.
	And I've said this from the beginning.
	I don't care if you're a Cruz supporter or a Trump supporter, it doesn't matter.
	And, you know, I've always been a fan of George Will in many ways.
	I remember back in the day when I would watch, I mean, I was 18 years old, and you know, I don't know if he was on at that time, but I do remember the early days when David Brinkley was the host for Crying Out Loud of this week.
	You don't even know who David Brinkley is, do you?
	Wow, that's a little scary.
	Lauren has no clue.
	Ethan has no clue.
	Jason has no clue.
	Do you know?
	Jason knows?
	You do?
	I've heard of David Brinkley.
	I've heard of David, but you never you never watched David Brinkley.
	I used to watch him, yeah, in the 80s when I was a young teen.
	I was I was fixated on David Brinkley.
	No, you were watching MTV.
	I got it, and it's initial heyday.
	I when they actually played music back in the day, and which they don't anymore.
	So I I remember those early days where Will was on there battling Sam Donaldson and Koki Roberts, and at the time was like Reagan's lone defender, and he was stunningly effective, highly intellectual, left everybody else in the dust.
	He'd be a man of few words.
	He'd let Sam rant and rave and Koki rant and rave, and then he'd come out and say something that would usually be pretty profound.
	And anyway, I don't know what's happened.
	George Will hates Donald Trump so much that he's effectively endorsed Hillary Clinton.
	And I'm not exaggerating.
	George Will writes, if Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House.
	Well, what does that mean?
	That means don't let Trump win.
	Donald Trump's damage to the Republican Party, although already extensive, has barely begun.
	He talks about uh all of his problems multiplying and the support of the most anti-conservative presidential uh uh candidate in the party's history.
	Those that collaborate will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party's reconstruction.
	That's what he's writing here.
	Trump would be the most unpopular nominee ever.
	Unable to even come close to Mitt Romney's insufficient support among women, minorities, and young people.
	And losing disastrously, Trump probably would create a down ballot carnage sufficient to end even the Republican control of the House.
	Now I don't have a crystal ball.
	I don't.
	This is a very unconventional year.
	If anybody's making predictions, I think they have no clue what they're talking about.
	I cannot make a prediction.
	Is it possible with the the dire gloom and doom that George Will believes is impossible?
	Well, maybe in a conventional political year I might buy it.
	But I think all bets are off this year.
	I think people are so disgusted with Washington.
	I think anything can happen.
	I also warn people that are overconfident.
	Don't underestimate Hillary Clinton and her machine.
	So anyway, he says that conservatives, if Trump is nominated, should have two tasks.
	One would be to help him lose 50 states.
	Now, why would he say that?
	Because I'm telling you, the establishment types that are unhappy that their choice for candidates got their brains beaten in by Cruz and Trump, they're angry.
	They want revenge.
	And who are they most angry at?
	You, the voters.
	And how you voted, and how you haven't gone along with their great ideas.
	Otherwise, this would be a typical presidential election year where Jeb Bush or Scott Walker or John Kasich was the nominee.
	But the people have decided they don't want this to be a conventional year.
	Now he could make all the predictions he wants, but I doubt that George Will predicted that Donald Trump would get more GOP primary votes than every other GOP candidate ever before him and have the most in the history of the GOP.
	I don't think he predicted that about the 162-year-old party.
	And then it gets worse.
	And you got Bill Crystal.
	You know, George Will is essentially endorsing Hillary.
	Bill Crystal is now trying to encourage a third party candidacy to stop Trump in the general election.
	Well, that's basically trying to do everything he can do to help Hillary Clinton.
	Anyway, he put out a hypothetical short list of third party candidates, including Marco Rubio.
	Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas, I'd be stunned if he ever got became a part of that mess.
	Who could run if Donald Trump becomes the Republican nominee?
	So Crystal and George Will want the Republicans to lose and are actively working now to make that happen.
	And I can promise you, for every crystal and every George Will out there, there's thousands of establishment types who are planning on plotting and to do the same thing in their own way.
	And why?
	Because they want to stick their their finger in your face and tell you how dumb you are, that you're not going along with their chosen candidates this time.
	That you've decided to make this an insurgency year.
	And they want to punish you for your rebellion.
	What are we, little children here?
	And if it was Ted Cruz who was the in the position that Trump is currently in, they do the same thing anyway.
	Because they've never liked Ted Cruz to begin with.
	It's really you, the people that they have contempt for, and it's you, the people that they're trying to disenfranchise, and it's you, the people that they hate, they hate your choice so much that they'd rather help Hillary Clinton.
	That ought to tell you everything you need to know about how desperately these insiders want to hang on to their power.
	That in spite of Republicans in every exit poll being shown to be weak and timid and ineffective and having betrayed the Republican Party, they still want those people in power, not people that are threatening to shake the system to its core.
	That ought to tell you a lot about people.
	Now I'm from the beginning, I've been clear.
	I'm going to support the nominee.
	And I'm going to support the nominee because the third term of Hillary Clinton, well, sorry, the first term of Hillary Clinton would be nothing except the third term of Barack Hussein Obama.
	We would continue the failed economic policies.
	She would continue the failed health care system that he put together, which is collapsing economically.
	She would never allow this country to move towards energy independence against fracking, which is so stupid.
	You know, she would never give the states the power to choose for education, and she's not going to build the wall.
	And she's not going, she wasn't there for the 3 a.m. call in Benghazi.
	And she didn't do a good job in Libya.
	And she didn't do it, she might have traveled a lot and racked up frequent flyer miles, you know, flying on your private jet that you pay for for her, but she hasn't what can she cite as an accomplishment?
	That's how absolutely twisted and absolutely skewed these establishment people are.
	John Boehner calling Cruz Lucifer.
	Screw you know what?
	Screw these people.
	None.
	All these years they have forced establishment candidates down your throat.
	Told you that how how horrible it would be if you don't suck it up and vote for their establishment candidate.
	Well, now that you got people that are insurgents, now they don't want you to vote for them, and now they're gonna pick up their little toys like the big baby sore losers that they are, and they're gonna go home.
	And I'm sorry, I actually put the best interest of the country over everything else.
	And if it is Trump, let's say it is Trump for a second.
	Let's say he does three of the things that he's told me in interview after interview after interview after interview that he's gonna do.
	Let's say Trump builds the wall.
	Let's say he eliminates Obamacare.
	He can't be any more economically undisciplined than Obama.
	He's got to save money.
	Can't be nobody can have the debt that he's accumulated.
	And let's say he goes for energy independence, which he has told me time and time again he would do.
	Let's say he did those three four things.
	Wouldn't that be infinitely better than anything Hillary would offer?
	It's unbelievable.
	Unbelievable.
	I am frankly so disappointed.
	But I'm not stunned.
	I thought I understood the establishment.
	I thought I got them.
	You know, years ago when I said Bahner needs to go.
	I thought I understood it.
	But it's it's bordering on pathological, the hatred that they have for people like Senator Cruz and Donald Trump.
	And this is the irony.
	I know the Cruz and Trump people are at each other's other's throat because there's a lot at stake.
	The great irony is they hate both of you.
	They hate both of them.
	And they hate all their supporters too.
	All right, so Indiana tomorrow.
	Look, it's not it's not the end of the race by any stretch of the imagination.
	And uh I want to be very, very clear.
	It's it's I understand the strategy of both John Kasich and Senator Ted Cruz.
	Neither one can mathematically now get to 1237.
	They're fighting to prevent Donald Trump from getting there.
	His doing so well in New York, Delaware, Maryland, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania, though, has now made that job that much more hard.
	Because while if he would not have done as well in those six states, he would definitely be in the position, meaning Trump that he would had to have he would have to win Indiana.
	Now, with that said, um, and I'm saying that, you know, I I I like people that fight.
	You know, if I'm in the ring and I I do MMA and I'm fighting somebody, I don't really get to fight the way you normally would fight because I actually have to have a face for the television program, otherwise I'd let it rip.
	What do I care?
	No, we really do.
	We absolutely fight.
	We do real fight.
	Why are you laughing at that?
	What is so funny?
	You saw my finger, I broke it in half.
	Why are you laughing so hard at that?
	Put your microphone on.
	Nobody can hear you laughing.
	Why is that so funny?
	I don't know.
	I don't know why it's funny.
	I like to box, I like to fight, but I they but there's a rule.
	When we're when I'm fighting and sparring, I don't let people hit me in the face.
	What do you want me to come in with like a bunch of people?
	I don't know.
	It's just like I have this image of you, like, you know, you guys are really going at it and just as you're about to fight, you're like, um, nothing above the shoulders, okay.
	This is the face for TV.
	I just picture you saying No, it's actually that's not me that says my sensei that says that.
	No, you can't hear.
	Well, he no, he does.
	What does he say?
	He's like, if you hit him in the face, he goes, I'm gonna kill you.
	He'll say that.
	Now, he has this so when we're doing drills, right?
	You know, for example, I might do an eye poke, or if somebody does a push on you, imagine somebody pushes.
	Are they below the chin drills?
	No, you know, like if you're in a bar, somebody pushes you in the top of your chest.
	Well, we have specific things that we do for each situation, and we practice them and we drill them.
	So, for example, the first thing I do is I come around, really slam their arms down hard, follow up with an ear slap on both sides of the ears, hold the back of the neck, either trake them out or or poke them in the eyes and then rake their jaw shut.
	And then when they're going down, you kick them in the you know what.
	That's how you handle that part.
	So anyway, so we're doing these things, but we do have strict rules that they can't punch me in the face.
	And by the way, I don't I don't get to punch them in the face.
	Well, you're in that thing.
	Uh that thing doesn't matter.
	You put the thing on, they can still break your nose.
	No, with the guard in front.
	Almost like you're a hot you're like a hockey goalie.
	No, but that it still doesn't protect your full face.
	It doesn't.
	Listen, I do real look at my finger.
	It's like it it's it's deformed after one of the recent wars and battles that we've had.
	Anyway.
	All right, let me go back to the Indiana race for a second.
	So it's um it's got the feel.
	Look, one way or the other, June 7th, this whole thing is over.
	That's a month from now.
	The primary nominating process is gonna be over in a month.
	Now we know where Bill Crystal and George will stand.
	That's not where I'm gonna stand.
	And I am not saying in it from any respect that if you are pro Senator Cruz.
	We had a great time with them on Friday.
	We were in Indiana with Senator Cruz and and uh Carly Fiorina, and we did an hour on TV.
	And we've got Trump on, but not for the hour tonight, just for a segment or two.
	Um, fair and balanced.
	Unbelievable.
	I have to I actually have to go on Twitter and point out your article that points out how many minutes people have had on radio, and Ted Cruz has had more minutes than anybody else, and he's had more appearances on TV than anybody else.
	And everyone tries to write that there's some issue between me and Senator Cruz, we're we're not not at all.
	We get along fine.
	We have one little spat because he said that's a Trump question, and I got pissed off.
	That's all that happened.
	Anyway, so um, so I'm not saying anything is over.
	And if a majority of votes for Ted Cruz come in in Indiana, then you move on.
	And you still have New Jersey and Nebraska and Oregon and Washington and California and West Virginia, still a lot of contests left.
	If, for example, tomorrow, though, if Donald Trump were to win Indiana by my, let's say he got all 57 delegates, he'd only then need 184.
	Now, the winner of Indiana statewide gets 30 of the 57, and then the rest are proportionally distributed.
	It's winner take most, basically, in the state of Indiana.
	And the polls, except for the one poll, seemed to show a late surge, which is pretty huge for Trump in the state of Indiana.
	Wall Street Journal MBC had had Cruz down by 19.
	Um, according to the last six polls that have been taken, he's up ranging from two points to 17 points at the high end.
	And then you have the one poll that I've I'd never heard of the polling organization.
	It's from within Indiana that had Cruz plus 16.
	Who knows?
	I don't know how to take that when every other poll goes the other way.
	Um, keep in mind that everyone, including Cruz, I think knows that Indiana is it's not do or die, but it's pretty close.
	In other words, if Trump wins all 57 delegates, that's 184 delegates short at that point of the 1237 needed to win the nomination.
	And uh if we add the the unbound delegates that are committed from Pennsylvania, that is, for example, there's 41 unbound delegates committed to Trump, 20 unbound delegates committed to Cruz, and uh at least another I think 57 remaining, if my math is right.
	I'm I'm trying to remember off the top of my head.
	Um now, if Cruz wins, you know, if if Cruz doesn't win, he will gone have now gone without a primary victory over the last four weeks heading into the home stretch of the campaign.
	Momentum does play a factor in in races.
	It just does.
	And if you want to compare how much importance Cruz is placing in Indiana, you know, he's now been in camp there for more than a week.
	So he's been on the ground and he's doing as many events.
	I think he did he's doing like ten in the next day or two.
	That's on top of all the events that he did this weekend.
	So he's out there fighting.
	So he has five events on his schedule today, uh ending with a nighttime rally in Indianapolis.
	Carly Fiorina has five events of her own in the county surrounding Indianapolis.
	In the last week, Cruz has done everything in his power to change the trajectory of the race.
	He agreed to a non-aggression pact with John Kasich that didn't really last that long, allowing Cruz pretty much to go one-on-one in the contest.
	The problem for Cruz is that 58% of those in the Wall Street Journal MBC poll did not like that agreement.
	That's a pretty big number.
	I was actually surprised it was that high.
	Uh then Cruz announced Carly as his running mate.
	I give Carly a lot of credit.
	She did prosecute the case against Hillary as effectively as anybody in her time in the campaign.
	I think she ran a very strong campaign.
	I think she has a lot to offer.
	Um let's see, he won the endorsement from Governor Pence, but everyone kind of viewed it as lukewarm.
	So that didn't exactly help a whole lot.
	I know uh Glenn Beck has been uh all over the state.
	I know that Mike Lee has been all over the state.
	I know that Louis Gomert is all over the state, and Heidi Cruz is all over the state.
	And Senator Cruz himself is really, really ratcheting up the rhetoric.
	And um, you know, trying to try to win the state.
	That's what he's trying to do.
	So anyway, it look at least according to the polls, it seems a little bit uphill for him.
	Scott Reid, the chief political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce said if he loses Indiana, it's game set match.
	Washington Post said that Cruz's Indiana strategy is both urgent And unconventional.
	That doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing from my point of view.
	I love the sense of urgency that anybody has in life.
	New York Times is reporting one crucial advantage that Cruz will have or has had is beating Trump in the delegate fights rather than in primaries is fading.
	In other words, that according to the Times, Cruz's support among the party's two thousand four hundred and seventy-two convention delegates is softening as now Trump has racked up these victories in the Middle Atlantic and Northeastern States.
	Anyway, um Trump appears to have won at least 40 of the fifty-four unbound delegates, so that's where things stand.
	So it's up to now the people, the good people of Indiana.
	Um did you see what was going on Friday in California?
	I did not see, but uh people wrote me, I didn't see the American flag being burned.
	Did you see that?
	You did see it, Linda.
	I didn't see that video.
	Why doesn't anyone show that video?
	Every single shot I saw, there were numerous Mexican flags being waved, including specifically really, really large ones.
	It's just unbelievable to me, Mexico, that if you go into Mexico illegally from El Salvador, Central America, Nicaragua, wherever, you go in there, they put you in jail or they throw you out.
	It's unreal.
	You can go to Hannity.com.
	We got a lot of information up there about all this stuff.
	All right, let's go to um our busy telephones.
	Randy is in Plano, Texas.
	Randy, how are you?
	Glad you called.
	Welcome to the program.
	Uh thank you very much for taking my call.
	I'll try to be as brief as possible.
	Um I thank you very much for the years I've listened to you.
	And I I have some some some quick questions.
	Okay.
	Um earlier, whenever you said that Banger hates Cruz and hates Trump.
	Uh well no, I said the I was talking very specifically about the establishment, but Boehner's clearly hates Cruz more than Trump in this case, yeah.
	Yeah, because he said pretty much their golfing buddies, they're texting buddies, been golfing with them for years.
	I have no idea what the I have no idea what their relationship is, except what he said in that interview.
	Right, and in the same breath in the same paragraph, he pretty much said that.
	And another thing that really kind of concerns me is that we've never talked about how Trump says that well, you need to really surround yourself with people that are less smart than you are, and people that look up to you because you don't want to be in a room where it looks like people are smarter than you, and um that's his pretty much philosophy.
	Another quick thing is that I you know, for the for months and months and months and months, I heard you say, What are the three things that Hillary Clinton has done to make life better for Americans?
	What are the three things?
	And every time you would have somebody on your show that was a liberal or progressive, they would sit there stunned and not be able to really say anything.
	They wouldn't know how to react to that.
	And whenever I look at Trump, so whenever you talk about the never Trump people, what I see is I see Biff Tannin.
	That's who I see becoming our president.
	You see who becoming our president?
	And there's no man.
	Well, uh, how about how about this?
	Did you ever build a building in your life?
	Did you ever I used to be in construction?
	Do you ever build a house or a building?
	You ever involved in construction?
	Yeah, I built a house, and actually I put when whenever my house was being built, I went in there and put me ask you this question in the house myself so that my family and I could have thrown towns.
	But you probably hired people to do the electrical or the plumbing or some type of subcontracting work, right?
	Uh no, not personally.
	Oh, so you you built the house from scratch all by yourself.
	No, no, no, not personally.
	I did not personally build so when you build a house or you build a building, what is the number one benefit right off the top that you can count on because you're willing to risk and invest your money?
	What do you do?
	You create, I'll help you.
	What do you do?
	You create you create what?
	What do you create if you're building a building?
	Your building building?
	Yeah, if you're building a building, don't you create thousands and thousands of jobs?
	Oh, yeah, definitely.
	Okay.
	So the people that do the lumber, the people that do the fighting and all kinds of stuff.
	The people that clean it, the people that install the the marble, the people that build the building, the contractors, the construction workers, the people that build the towers, the guys that were work the cranes, the guys that are painters and hang wallpaper, all those people, right?
	So you employ people.
	All right, so start there.
	What has Hillary Clinton ever done for people?
	I mean, look, look, I would I would never vote for either of them.
	I'd rather vote the person that's that's gone before the Supreme Court helped us.
	I understand, but if that but if he doesn't win and he's got a very uphill battle at this point, if he doesn't win, what are you gonna do then?
	If he doesn't win, if he doesn't win, what am I gonna do then?
	Yeah.
	What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna continue to pray and not let my heart be troubled and just think to myself.
	God put me here on in in this country in a very specific time and and cry for our country that the choices are what what they're what they're gonna be.
	Let me ask you this.
	If Trump did in in the many interviews I had with him, and frankly this goes for Ted Cruz too, they both said they'd build build a wall.
	They both want energy independence, they both want to repeal Obamacare, and they both want uh America to build up its military and live within its means.
	Do you think those five things I mentioned would be enough to vote for either Cruz or Trump over Hillary?
	If I could believe that one of the candidates would actually do that, if I knew for a fact that he knew that, listen, I can't I can't guarantee the law had already been passed, and he could come forth and say that the law was written in a way that we were going to.
	Here's my only qu listen, I can I can't vouch for every candidate and what they'll ultimately do.
	I can't.
	I can only tell you what they're saying.
	And what they're saying is very distinctly different, both Trump and Cruz than what Hillary's saying and doing.
	Um look, I know everybody's so passionate about this.
	I can tell you from my take as a never Hillary person, and somebody's gonna support the nominee, whoever it is, that if we have another four years of Obama like policies, which is what Hillary represents.
	I don't know the path to recovering as a country.
	I just don't know.
	I don't know what those, you know, one in four families now don't have a single person in the family that are working.
	One in four.
	I don't know how much more debt we can place on our kids before it's irreparable damage damage by us.
	I don't know how much more damage we can do on foreign policy than what this guy has done.
	So I don't know.
	You're gonna have a to everyone's gonna have to make a decision on their own.
	My decision is never Hillary.
	My decision is I'll support the nominee.
	We have interesting poll numbers out today.
	Last week the battleground poll had Donald Trump tied with Hillary Clinton.
	Today we've got a Rasmussen poll where Trump has 41% to Clinton's 39%.
	That had not been happening earlier in the race.
	As a matter of fact, earlier, the person that did best against excuse me, Hillary in these hypothetical matchups were John Kasich.
	And then Ted Cruz second, and then Trump third.
	So there seems to be a s a shift going on there.
	We have a lot of polls out of out of Indiana.
	Most of them have Trump up by a pretty significant amount, although there is this outlier poll that has Cruz up by 16.
	So here to is it an outlier, or is that more accurate?
	Who knows?
	Anyway, here joining us now is Jim and John McLaughlin, if Jim is actually here because he usually doesn't show up.
	How are you doing?
	You got the thick of New York accent, so I love to talk to you.
	I know your brother much better than you.
	Your brother actually is always on time.
	Your brother always shows up when he's supposed to.
	He's never missing an action like you, and I just, you know, have more faith and confidence in inviting him on the program than you, anyway.
	You know, that's why the nuns always liked him much better at school.
	Uh no the nuns I had never liked me.
	And the worst part is I had one nun, Sister Agnes Lucille, I'm sure I'm sure she's long gone because she was ancient at the time, and she was a math teacher, and she had taught my father when my father was in school, and every day, well, your father was a gentleman.
	Why don't you act more like your father?
	Your father was a nice guy.
	Why don't you act like my father every day?
	We know what it's like to live in the shadow of one's father, too.
	Exactly, right?
	All right, well, let's start with this general hypothetical matchup.
	John will start with you and the Rasmussen poll has Trump over Hillary by three.
	The battleground had it even.
	Right.
	And that was not the case just going back a couple of weeks ago.
	What's happened in these hypothetical matchups?
	I think he's I think Trump is has has focused his message on more about what people care about.
	He's gotten away from the personal attacks on people and and even though he's still very entertaining and the rallies, the word I have I mean, as I told you before, I do work for uh Senator David Long out in Fort Wayne and he's the majority leader at the president of the Senate out there and state Senate, they're telling me there's getting ten, twelve thousand people at every rally.
	So he's he's still got huge interest.
	So the crowds do represent something.
	Look, because there is no doubt his crowd side is crowd size is by far the largest in the field.
	So you think it means something.
	Right, because what what it really means is like an international survey last month, we had fifty seven percent of all Americans want to move away from the policies of Barack Obama, only thirty-three percent want to continue it.
	So what's happening is he's focused the the the idea of Hillary's third term uh is gonna I mean Hillary's gonna be Barack Obama's third term.
	He's focused on that, and his his foreign policy speech that he made, it w he really was very critical of President Obama.
	And even President Obama at the correspondence day dinner when he attacks Trump, he's helping Trump.
	And and in the last week, when you think of what's happened is you had uh Kasich, I mean, I don't think the Cruz and Kasich people understood it.
	When Kasich said he's not gonna play in Indiana, those voters weren't going to go straight to Cruz.
	And the Carly Fiorina endorsement, she doesn't bring any delegates.
	And you've had these California protests that I think, you know, the average American looks at those things and says, you know, violence at a political rally uh against Trump, you know, they get mad and they start rallying to him, and he's had these huge rallies in Indiana.
	And I I think uh Trump has had a good past couple weeks and a good times whatever he learned out of Wisconsin, he's learned well, and he's focusing his message.
	And the thing about Hillary Clinton is every vote where they disapprove of Barack Obama or they want to go in a different direction is a vote where it's available to Trump that if he can get down his negatives, he will be able to uh take advantage of that.
	And uh uh So what is your prediction then for Indiana tomorrow?
	Let me run through some of these polls.
	Real clear politics average has uh Trump plus uh seven point eight.
	You have the MBC poll, that was Trump plus fifteen.
	Um and this isn't even included.
	They don't include the investor business daily poll that had him up by nineteen.
	ARG has him plus nine, clout research has him plus two.
	Uh I don't know them very well.
	CBS News Ugov has Trump plus five, Fox News plus eight.
	Um then you have this IPFW down center poll, Cruz plus sixteen.
	Right.
	What do you make of is is it an outlier or is it maybe an indication that has not been picked up by other pollsters?
	No, it's been trending towards Trump, and you have uh you have the NBC Maris poll, which is a good poll that had they had uh plus fifteen.
	Right plus fifteen and and Case it going down, and then there's a Gravis poll out today that is three hundred and seventy-nine likely Republican primary voters, it's forty-four twenty seven, it's a bit on the high end for Trump.
	But uh it shows that it looks like Kasich withdrawing from Indiana has actually helped Trump more than it's helped Cruz, and it looks like Trump has momentum going into the into the It's funny you say that because a lot of times I've been watching these people all throughout this process.
	I'm watching people on TV and how they literally say, Well, if so and so gets out, well if you add so and so's numbers out, they'll all go to so and so, and it's never ever worked out that way.
	I've had you on the program discussing this insanity.
	You know, I was watching somebody was talking about well, here's Trump's and and the number of delegates Trump won, and here's the number of delegates, the other seventeen guys have won, and as you can see, is more people that don't want Trump than do want Trump, and I'm thinking, well, that's sixteen people against one.
	Yeah, right.
	And and and not to mention, too, in the uh in that MBC Maris poll, fifty-eight percent said they disapproved of the alliance between uh Kasich and Cruz.
	And you're you you're exactly right.
	I mean, these these voters are not monolithic.
	They don't all of a sudden one getting out, oh, they're all gonna vote against Trump.
	Trump is actually sp you know, splitting the various votes between Kasich and between Cruz.
	And again, you're seeing that in these surveys right now.
	Yeah.
	And the polls the polls we did for Senator Long, he's a good conservative, he's a Republican in Indiana, and for his majority that we've done around the state, what I don't think they realized was the Kasich voters were moderates.
	The Cruz voters were the very, very social issue conservatives and Trump was in the middle between the two of them in the somewhat conservative land.
	So when Kasich says I'm not playing here, ideologically on the issues, Kasich voters who want their vote to count were more likely to go to Trump than they were to Cruz.
	So the people that say oh it's all anti Trump, they didn't under they didn't look at the polls and every state's different and they just haven't you know they haven't looked at the polls.
	Yeah.
	And not only that, Sean, a really interesting point about the exit polls in Pennsylvania and the Republican primary voters in Pennsylvania, they're very conservative.
	There's some similarities with Indiana.
	Seventy three percent were self described conservatives that voted in the Pennsylvania poll, and the number that would scare me the most if I was Ted Cruz is he lost by thirty points among self described conservatives to Trump in Pennsylvania and Trump beat him by twenty five points among evangelicals in Pennsylvania.
	That's a real problem.
	And that's what that tells you is that conservative Christian base that was supposed to be Ted Cruz's, which quite honestly he got and that was the reason why he won a place like uh why he won Iowa, he's not getting that right now.
	And Trump is actually doing better among conservatives and evangelicals than uh than Ted Cruz is what do you think the reaction is going to be after tomorrow?
	Is he there then the presumptive nominee does do you see a case, a scenario where where John Kasich and Ted Cruz decide that okay maybe it's time to get out?
	I don't see that.
	No, they it said they're both going through and but Trump he's got almost a thousand delegates right now.
	He's got nine ninety six and Cruz only has five sixty five and if he won every delegate in Indiana, my math would have him at about one eighty four short.
	Yeah.
	Well there's a path there's a path I think there's fifty seven delegates in Indiana and uh it's a winner take most so he so if Trump has this double digit win there, he's gonna get those fifty seven delegates so that puts him over a thousand and he's he's uh with California Then he's at like a thousand fifty.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And and he's got a path to he's got a path to win it on a first ballot.
	So um you know it makes it really hard for for Kasich and Cruz to be do you think even at that time is if he gets to the magic number at that point the people get out or do they start trying to flip delegates behind the scenes like we saw in Arizona this weekend.
	And and aren't most of the delegates anyway they're still bound on the first vote, right?
	They're bound, but you get some insiders saying oh it may not mean that or something like that 'cause Cruz is still winning the delegate selections at like you saw in Arizona this weekend where in the second ballot, you know he'll go up, but but it looks like there won't be a second ballot if Trump's keeps doing what he's doing.
	And and it wasn't just in Arizona, it was also in uh Virginia and Missouri.
	I think when you looked at the th the three states Arizona, Virginia and Missouri, Cruz actually on Saturday got sixty-eight out of the ninety-two delegates.
	But with all that being said, if I I think one, when Trump gets over a thousand, which he probably will after Indiana, I think there's going to be a real psychological effect on that.
	And he has to win.
	He only has to win a less than half the delegates between now and he's at that point now where I think it's you know if you look at bound unbound remaining delegates he's at like forty two percent.
	And and John and I, neither we're obviously not we don't have a uh you know we don't have a dog in this fight right now but with that being said, if I was Donald Trump, I would really pivot into it and start focusing my messaging against Hillary Clinton.
	I would basically declare myself the winner.
	I would keep my focus on her, talk start talking about the issues that really matter to folks like national security, the economy, taxes, immigration, Obamacare.
	Before we get to that pivot point, let me go back a second.
	Last week Nate Silver, and I'm not the biggest fan of five thirty eight, but I I do check it out like I check out everything else.
	Last week he had Ted Cruz the likelihood of him winning Indiana at fifty eight percent.
	Now their forecast is if you use the polls only it's ninety seven percent Trump.
	If it's the polls plus their forecast, it's still eighty-three to seventeen percent that Trump will win it.
	Well what changed in a week's time?
	I think it was quite honestly looking at they look at the media polls and he kind of does an average of that.
	That one poll that you were citing before that was done by the one college I think it was you know University of Indiana, Purdue at Fort Wayne, that was the outlier there and I think he was factoring more of that in there but the interesting part about that poll was you know that was done over two weeks time.
	It was they started that poll a week before they even started voting in uh you know in all the I ninety five primaries last week.
	So well then let me ask this all these people that say they're never Trump.
	Never Trump and and we saw the poll that came out last week that suggested that there's going to be if it's Hillary and Trump, there'd be a high percentage of people in both parties that either stay home or want to go third party, and you have about ten percent Democrats switching to Republican, ten percent Republican switching to Hillary.
	Do you think in the end it works out that way, or is this at are we asking the question at the wrong time when people are most emotional about things?
	It's gonna change.
	I mean, when you look at it, I mean, the last time we asked the national survey, Trump had a sixty five unfavorable, Hillary had a fifty-seven.
	Thirty percent were unfavorable to both.
	They were unfavorable to both both.
	They voted for Trump 39 to 35.
	But the uh uh but it's gonna change.
	It's like those of us who are older, like Sean, you and Jim are younger than me.
	We remember in 1980, Reagan had big.
	I voted in nineteen eighty for the first time, Smarty Pence.
	So I beat you to it in seventy-six for Reagan.
	That's that's see, that's why you are fat and older than fatter and older than I am.
	But it's like um but in 1980, he Reagan wasn't ahead until he met him in a debate and said, There you go again, and the country just shut the lights out on Jimmy Carter because of Iran, the economy, everything was bad.
	And and the b the the hidden number in this poll and in the polls that are coming up is whether you disapprove the job Obama's doing or not.
	And it's a big thing.
	All right, so last final question.
	All right.
	I've said up to this point hypotheticals don't mean a whole lot.
	They see there seems to be some movement in that area.
	If it's Hillary and Trump, assuming these polls in Indiana turn out being right, who's gonna win that race?
	I think Trump can win it.
	The only I think Trump can win it.
	I didn't ask you who can win it, but either one of them can win it.
	Who's gonna win it?
	He should win it because his numbers are easier to change than hers.
	We've known her a long time, and she has high negatives that are are entrenched that she has this big negative that you think she's not telling the truth.
	Trump can actually undo his negatives.
	And and that's gonna be the challenge for the Trump campaign, because the very folks that Obama won with, you know, millennials, young people, uh Latinos, that's where Donald Trump, in all reality, in all honesty, right now, has some of his biggest negatives, but they are also not overly enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton.
	That's gonna be his challenge.
	He's gonna need to figure out a way to go in, get more Latino voters.
	He can't get less than, you know, he can't do it uh uh Mitt Romney did where he only got twenty-seven percent of Latinos.
	He wants to get up to around thirty-five, forty percent, and that's what that's what he's gonna have to do.
	Well, this head-to-head matchup, Hillary Clinton was down twenty some odd percent of b uh among black Americans versus where Obama was.
	Is she gonna get the black vote out?
	I mean, she's trying to play the race card today.
	She might yeah, she might actually lose in Indiana to uh Bernie.
	So it's a close race.
	The polls that we didn't talk about, she was only up four points.
	Yeah, she's the nominee, though.
	She has all the superdelegates.
	I mean, that that that whole process on the Democratic side is just rigged.
	She's it.
	Yeah.
	All right, guys.
	The only question is whether she'll be indicted either as president or as candidate, one or the other.
	That could always happen.
	Well that's not as president after the new president gets it.
	And that's that but that goes back to your previous question about can Trump win?
	Yeah, he can.
	He's got to get it more focused on issues, but you're also gonna see things like Benghazi, I think is gonna be a real thorn in her side in the uh in the presidential race because I think she's gonna have real problems with not just the Republicans on Benghazi.
	I think she's gonna have problems with family members who unfortunately were uh were killed in Benghazi.
	So it's it's gonna be a tough issue, and I think it makes her really vulnerable in the general.
	All right, guys, thank you both.
	John, Jim, who's always late McLaughlin, thank you so much for being with us.
	I was early this time.
	Yeah, shocking.
	Amazing.
	One time doesn't make you on time.
	Thank you very much.
	For example, we've got the bright new face of the Democratic Party here tonight, Mr. Bernie Sanders.
	Bernie, you look like a million bucks.
	Or to put it in terms you'll understand, you look like 37,000 donations of $27 each.
	Thank you.
	I am hurt though, Bernie, that you've been distancing yourself a little from me.
	I mean, that's just not something that you do to your comrade.
	laughter applause applause All right, twenty-five now till the top of the hour.
	Eight hundred nine four one Sean.
	You want to be a part of the program.
	That was from the White House correspondence dinner.
	I did watch it, and what's the guy's name?
	Larry Whitmore.
	I've never watched his show before.
	Um do you think I think ninety percent of his humor, so called humor was about race.
	Got got a little monotonous very fast.
	Anyway, joining us, Patrick J. Buchanan.
	Sir, how are you?
	Fine.
	That was a funny line the president had about Comrade Burra Burns.
	Comrade Bernie, Comrade O Obama.
	I mean, the the two Ps in a pod.
	Everybody forgets the Frank Marshall Davis, the Alinsky, the Acorn influence, the Reverend Wright ill influence, the the Bernardine Dorn and Bill Ayers influence.
	I never forgot it, Pat.
	Well, I will say, I mean, the president's about done now, but I will say when he gets up there at the at those dinners, uh he's got not only does he have outstanding writers, he's probably a good writer himself, but it was very, very funny, and he delivers his lines very well, Sean, and I have to say, I mean, everything he said, it it's like the gridiron dinner where they singe but they don't burn.
	But that other fellow up there, I thought uh it was very potty mouthed, and I thought it was uh potty mouth, but you're really showing your age here, Pat.
	Potty mouth.
	Jeez.
	It was uh it was I let me say this.
	Uh uh, I'm surprised that no one walked out of there.
	I mean, I I watched the whole thing and I I couldn't believe was look, everybody's fair game for having fun at their expense.
	Yeah.
	But I thought a lot of it was crude, a lot of it was heavy on the race card stuff.
	A lot was racial.
	A lot.
	And it was uh potty mouthed.
	Yeah.
	You know, um I'm very proud of this fact, and I I doubt you know this about me.
	So I'm uh now in my twentieth year on the Fox News channel.
	I'm not sure if you're aware of that.
	And uh I've never been to a White House correspondence dinner, and I'm very proud having never gone.
	Well, I will say that I started going back in uh I guess in the first in the early Nixon years, very early Nixon years, and I went into a a number of them, and I think one of the last ones I was there was when I was running against uh George H. W. Bush, and when he got up and said that Pat Buchanan's had the best line of the campaign in Michigan where he said, Ick Ben Mercedes owner.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Okay, you remember everything Pat again said.
	We never forget those.
	I can see Pat's taking that one to the grave one day.
	Uh well anyway, let's go to the campaign.
	Indiana is tomorrow.
	You're looking at the polls, I'm looking at the polls.
	Uh all have Trump ahead, anywhere between two and nineteen, except for one that has crews up by sixteen.
	And we just had Jim and John McLaughlin on.
	They believe it's an outlier.
	You have written a column recently, the headline was only an act of God can stop Trump now, but that's from the nomination.
	Can he win the ne c do you think the nominating process is over?
	I think uh, as I said, um barring um celestial intervention, Trump is going to be the nominee of the Republican Party.
	I think he's gonna win Indiana, and I think he's gonna win California, and I think he's gonna win New Jersey.
	And I don't think they can take it away from him.
	And I do believe that if he is nominated, he has a chance of being elected the next president of the United States.
	And the reason I say that is that Trump has a someone put it this morning, a non-traditional appeal.
	He has an appeal on these, if you will, the issues of the trade issue, the immigration issue, the stay out of foreign wars issue, the populism, the nationalism, that Republicans don't normally have, and that have real appeal in states like Michigan and uh and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and some of the others that we've lost for six straight times, Sean.
	And there's something else.
	Let me say this.
	Trump, whatever you say about it, is a very arresting, interesting, exciting race.
	People are talking about it.
	Did you hear what he said today?
	Are they gonna come back on this?
	Is this g everybody is following this like an NFL season, and whereas on the other side, I mean, nobody is excited about what whether you're for Hillary or not, nobody is excited about what she represents or offers the nation.
	If you look at the just the voting numbers, uh Trump is on a path to get more votes than any GOP candidate in the history of the GOP primaries, and Hillary's down anywhere but tw from twenty to sixty percent in every state that uh has voted so far.
	And not only that, Trump is winning now by fifty and sixty percent when Republican turnout has been greater than any series of primaries and caucuses in history.
	People are tremendously interested in some of them coming to vote against Trump, obviously, but tremendous numbers of non participants in politics and not usual non voters are coming out in primaries because he has really excited the nation.
	And I s I think I think one of the main two of the main reasons are obviously the border securing that, but these lost jobs, lost factories, lost income, the fact that the middle class is drifting down and the well to do seem to be doing extremely well.
	So I think all these issues really raise the potential that that I you can hear in democratic voices when they're saying, Look, don't take this thing for granted.
	This is not going to be a walkover.
	I mean, we may win this thing and we may win it big, but I think they fear they could lose it.
	I th I know they fear they can lose it.
	I absolutely positively know beyond any shadow of a doubt that they fear that.
	Um what do you think about the uh look it's been very intense between especially between Senator Cruz and and Donald Trump.
	Right.
	And you've got a Never Cruise movement, you got a Never Trump movement, which is bigger than the Never Cruise movement.
	Do you think if in fact what you're predicting happens and he becomes the nominee, do you think he's gonna be able to win over those Cruz supporters?
	And how would you recommend he do it?
	I think you all obviously if you win and the other fellow drops out or concedes, which I think uh Cruz will not do until after California.
	I think Kasich might leave after Indiana.
	I think that that Trump makes the call to him.
	But in the last analysis, Sean, I think what's going to bring Cruz around is there's a possibility that Trump loses in uh if he if he's the nominee in November.
	And if he does, if Cruz has not come around and has not endorsed him, his fate will be that of the Rockefeller Romney Scranton crowd who walked away from Barry Goldwater in sixty-four when Nixon and Reagan were out there fighting their hearts out and going down to defeat with Barry, and Nixon and Reagan got the presidency twice, each of them.
	And those fellows were never heard from again.
	Well, I I keep reading these predictions.
	I mean, I I don't know if the analogy fits.
	I mean, there's some people who's got to endorse Trump.
	You have to endorse the candidate, or the next time you run, I mean, there are a lot of people said, Look, maybe we didn't like Trump or we did like him, and you walked away from us when we needed you, and now we're not coming with you.
	I I mean, uh Cruz, yeah.
	No matter how bitter he is, I would tell him that at that convention at some point he's got to endorse.
	You know, Gene McCarthy and the Democratic Party held up endorsing Humphrey in sixty-eight until the final days, and he never went anywhere again.
	Let me ask this, because I I I think this is really important.
	Don't you think there's gotta be a way that that may b as unconventional as Trump has been.
	Don't you think there's a way to bring Ted Cruz into any type of position that would would satisfy like for example, he's gonna name a list if I'm again I'm only going on your assumption that you think Trump has this wrapped up and quote, only an act of God stops him.
	So if you're right, what if he said in his judicial philosophy speech, which apparently is coming up soon that, you know, Ted Cruz would be my top pick for the Supreme Court?
	Would that be nuts?
	I would not that would make that an issue of the campaign.
	And you know, I'm not sure you would want to shift and make that an issue in the cancer.
	Well, he said he's gonna name names.
	He said he's gonna give a list and and only from that list will he choose a Supreme Court nominee.
	So he's gonna be naming names, so it's gonna be an is not gonna I would uh uh I would not say I would name Cruz.
	I would you know I do think that you say, look, Ted Cruz, who is you know, who's who knows the Supreme Court, Supreme Court issues and has written on him and spoken on him as well as any others is is someone a lot of you know people will take a look at.
	I would say that, but I would not go so far as to say I'm gonna name uh Ted Cruz to the Supreme Court.
	I will say, did you hear Biden's line?
	Uh what's that?
	Biden says Obama should appoint Cruz to the Supreme Court because pretty soon he would have eight vacancies.
	All right, all right.
	Easy Sunshine.
	What do you think?
	Here's the thing.
	I mean, in my view, I mean probably I I don't mean to joke, but a lot of his senators might support Cruz up there himself for given what you hear about how popular is.
	But let me be serious.
	Ted Cruz clearly I mean he's outstanding law uh in his academic career, he's uh he's outstanding in terms of his discussion of these issues.
	He's been a clerk on the Supreme Court.
	I mean he's worked on the case.
	He's argued nine times before the court clearly qualified, and he is queer clearly of the precise mindset or with regard to judicial items that you want on the Supreme Court.
	But I would hesitate to name specifically I'm going to appoint him.
	Yeah.
	No, well, he might be part of the list of twelve or thirteen people that he lays out.
	Who would be a good VP?
	Who uh for anybody who would be your and I want you to think out of the box a little bit here.
	Who do you think and I I'm just assuming for a minute based on Kasich's actions that Kasich doesn't want it.
	Um who would be a good VP for either one of them?
	Well, I think you need the uh you know, I would start you start down the road and and what you I would take first, you know, there there is an advantage to having someone who has real mean who would really reassure the party base and the establishment and the rest of them uh you know, and it can deal with those folks.
	Frankly, like a cheney for Bush, okay?
	When when when W came up to DC.
	Uh and and that's one consideration.
	The second is you gotta win this thing, Sean, and I would be looking closely at someone who could strengthen me in the real battleground states which are hopefully not I mean Trump is gonna if he's a nominee, we'll take Texas himself.
	He has to.
	But I would look for people that could who had real credentials and might be able to bring a state out of the Democratic package.
	Well the to the pr the person that would come to mind the most if that's your thinking, it would be John Kasich.
	If John Kasich's Ohio, and I you gotta presume you you can win your Ohio yourself.
	So with are you looking at are you looking at maybe Scott Walker in Wisconsin?
	Well, I d you know, but he didn't mean uh then I'd ta have to take a real look at why he he slipped and fell just coming out of the gate, you know.
	He certainly knows how to win that state though.
	Well he knows how to win the state, but does he he doesn't know how to win on the presidential field?
	Uh I mean he's shown that.
	I'm uh b very high.
	I thought he did a great job in uh you know, with within unions again and again and again.
	What if you brought out of you know, the some of the old days?
	What if you brought back people like Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani?
	Well, that's very that's interesting.
	What do you think about Newt Gingrich's vision?
	I don't know.
	I think Newt's got a lot of uh I don't know what who Newt brings you that you don't already have.
	Well would New King Rich reassure conservatives.
	I mean, look, he's the last guy that balanced the budget.
	He's the guy that got welfare reform done, uh, probably the most consequential speaker in in our lifetime by far.
	My guess is my guess is that that Trump may would obviously put him on the list, but you're mentioning when you mention Rudy, for example.
	Uh, on the social issues and a lot of conservatives are gonna be very concerned.
	How about attorney general to prosecute Hillary?
	Well, listen, they got a lot they got a lot of guys to attorney general.
	Well, go go back to Newt for a second.
	Well, you got Chris Christie.
	Maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves in terms of winning this thing, Sean.
	Well, I could always dream it.
	We're all picking the cabinet.
	Listen, I'm um I'm listening I'm just going down that road.
	Uh you're the one that has the column only an act of God can stop Trump.
	So what somebody asked me, I think it's as they said of uh of Calvin Coolidge, somebody said his his career showed definite signs of celestial intervention, you know.
	All right.
	Well uh I don't underestimate Hillary, just to backtrack here a second.
	I really don't.
	I think she starts out I think she's capable and she's tough and she'll be a She's a horrible candidate, though.
	She's a terrible candidate on the stump, but she is not bad in debates.
	And she has held her own against uh she held her own in two thousand eight and frankly she was I think she was much better candidate in two thousand eight when she came back from those twelve defeats.
	I was immensely impressed with her.
	I mean, as a candidate, came back, won Pennsylvania and won uh Kentucky and one West Virginia and was I think winning Ohio and Obama's lucky he had a better ground game.
	Yeah, no doubt about it.
	But she doesn't have her husband's inner personal skills.
	No, and she doesn't have the the skills on the on the podium that uh that Obama has.
	That Obama or Bill Clinton had.
	I mean, Bill Clinton, you remember the debate with George H. W. Bush.
	Sure.
	He moves away from the podium and he's over there chatting away.
	He's a he was really a sixties guy.
	Oh, he was he's a natural as the sixties generation's a baby boomerly coming of age.
	I care uh listen, I'm gonna take care of all this.
	I promise you things haven't been going good.
	And listen, if you want to tour sweetheart after this, I'll take you backstage.
	All right, I gotta go.
	Patrick J. Buchanan, God bless you, my friend.
	You take it easy, my friend.
	The bosses are trying to run it.
	You know, it's a ribbed party.
	It's a whole rigged uh situation.
	The bosses like in Arizona, the bosses I win Arizona in a landslide.
	I beat Cruz so badly, it's almost ridiculous.
	And then the bosses have uh delegates that have a delegate, a crooked delegate system where they go in and they try and get delegates or they can play games.
	But I tell you what, the voters wouldn't stand for it.
	You know, when you win by millions of votes, and that's what I've been saying, it's a rich system.
	The bosses want to pick whoever they want to pick.
	Uh the purpose of going through uh the primaries.
	And I think this entire process, I think anyone that wants to be president knows it.
	The people of this state to come in front of you and ask for your support.
	And I'm running to be everyone president.
	Those who vote for me, even though we're not going to be able to do that.
	We don't want you.
	Well, you're you're entitled to your view, sir, and I will respect it.
	That's how we map.
	I will be able to do that.
	You ask cases to drop out, it's your turn.
	Well take your own words.
	Now I'm curious, sir.
	Time to drop out.
	When Donald doesn't get to 1237, Donald's definitely gonna get on twelve thirty seven.
	He's gonna get more than twelve thirty seven.
	Let me ask you something, sir.
	What what do you like about Donaldson?
	Everything.
	Give me one.
	Everything.
	Give me one anything.
	Donald Trump two!
	The wall.
	Okay, the wall.
	That's the main thing.
	Ted's building the wall?
	That Donald told the New York Times editorial.
	Once again, line Ted!
	Well, sir, ISIS!
	Civilized people don't just scream and yell at each other.
	I'm not yelling at you.
	Let me tell you.
	The New York Times reported the whole thing.
	Republican.
	We're politicians defeating it.
	Man, things are getting heated on the campaign trail.
	There's no doubt about that.
	News Roundup Information Overload Hour of the Sean Hannity Show, 800 941 Sean.
	If you want to be a part of the program, we welcome back to the program, DC McAllister, senior contributor to the Federalist and a uh Ted Cruz supporter, Jonathan Gillam is a serious radio host, former Navy SEAL, Trump supporter.
	Welcome both of you back to the show.
	Thank you.
	D DC, how important for the for the Cruise campaign is Indiana?
	Indiana's very important, but it's not the end of the road.
	Okay, so in other words, if he doesn't win, you don't think that's a big setback.
	It's a big setback, but it's not the end.
	The end is when Donald Trump gets twelve thirty-seven.
	So in other words, the race is going to go on.
	You're going to go through June 7th or until that date when Donald Trump gets to 1237.
	Well, let me ask you.
	I mean, I'm just I'm asking.
	I'm not sure.
	Are you the nominee when you have twelve hundred?
	No, you're the nominee when you have twelve thirty-seven, so the race isn't over until someone gets twelve thirty seven.
	There's certain things that we can look at.
	For example, if you look at polls in California, latest poll is Trump up by twenty seven.
	He's up in the state of Oregon, and I saw some some numbers out of Nebraska that that we he was do I think it was up in that state as well.
	So my only question is this.
	I don't care if anyone stays in as long as they want to stay in.
	I think it's up to the campaigns to make that decision.
	But how do we unify the party at the end of this process?
	Well, I like I said, whoever gets a 1237 first, um, you know, is the winner.
	So we agree on that.
	Um we unify, I think we unify around never Hillary.
	And that needs to be the message going forward, no matter who the nominee is.
	And we need to focus on her, defeat her, be vicious about it, be bold, be outspoken, and be fearless.
	And I I think we haven't seen that in past elections, Sean.
	I think we've been too timid in going after the Democrats.
	You know what?
	I need to be old.
	I've been saying this on Twitter as I've been fighting people this whole, you know, over the weekend and Friday and Saturday.
	I mean, I honestly I've been saying the same thing.
	Everyone says I said I'd from the beginning I'm gonna support the nominee.
	And I I'm with you.
	Never h never Hillary, because if that happens, it's a third term of Obama.
	What do you think, Jonathan?
	Well, first off, I want to know if that was JJ Walker screaming in the background on that sound bite.
	Um Dino Might.
	But uh you know, I listen I agree uh first off, I don't really subscribe to uh the Republican Party the way it stands right now.
	I'm a conservative, but I have a uh real problem with the way th this whole game is being played.
	And I think we all agree that there's a an issue with the way that uh these delegates are being uh No, I don't agree with that.
	Well, I agree with uh I'm the the United States agrees with it.
	There's a big problem with the way that the game is being played for the presidency of the United States when you're saying that if he comes in with twelve hundred and he's missing thirty seven delegates, that you're gonna have a unified Republican Party if it goes to a contested convention over thirty seven votes and then uh all of a sudden Ted Cruz comes out victory.
	You think that is gonna unify conservatives?
	Because here's the real deal.
	You're not just talking about unifying the Republican Party.
	You're talking about unifying conservatives.
	And so far this Ted Cruz guy who says he's a constitutionalist has done nothing to show the people that he's for the people and by the people in this uh nomination process.
	Well, let me ask you this question.
	Do you think Abraham Lincoln should never have been president?
	That's just a ridiculous thing because it's not a ridiculous thing.
	It was completely different back then.
	The people were not educated like they are now, and I don't agree with contested conventions.
	I I agree with the Constitution.
	They were Ted Cruz would agree with that.
	Now let me just say, you know, talking to Trump supporters about the primary process is like talking to a woman during a b football game and trying to explain the rules.
	Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
	I wouldn't know that because I don't I I'm a Trump supporter.
	I don't judge women now.
	Every man knows what I'm talking about.
	You know, sitting there watching football.
	I I know plenty of women that love football.
	Well I love football, and I'm saying but every guy knows how to do that.
	You know who knows more about football than any of us is Tamara Holder.
	You're sitting there trying to watch the game and you're going, someone's going, that's not fair.
	What's that rule for?
	Well, that's just not fair.
	Why can't he do this?
	Why can't he do that?
	You know, stop ta understand the rules, play by the game and understand and I play by the Constitution, which you think Ted Cruz would play by as well, but he is playing by the rules.
	Tell me what rules he's broken.
	He plays by the rules of the Republican Party, which are completely devious.
	What rules have he broken?
	The Republican Party does not play by the book that the American public wants.
	The thing that the American uh entire United States was founded on, which is the Constitution and the way for the people by the people, that is not the game that's being played there.
	It is the representative republic that we have right now.
	That's not what happened in Colorado.
	Yes, it is what happened in Colorado.
	Those delegates were elected by people.
	They were grassroots, people who were elected people that were chosen by the Republican Party.
	No, they were not chosen, they were chosen by the people.
	They weren't chosen by the RNC.
	That's that's untrue.
	You're you're spreading false information.
	The Republican I had this conversation last week with the Cruz supporter.
	You know, the Republican Party is a private company.
	It is not a government entity.
	No, no, no.
	And what we're talking about right now is the way that they pick the person that the senior elites in the Republican Party want.
	And they don't want Donald Trump because he's gonna throw a monkey wrench into everything that they're about, which is me, me, me and give me the money and all the inside stuff for them.
	In Colorado, the R and C did not pick those delegates.
	Do you understand that?
	They were elected by people in precincts.
	It's a manipulation of the system.
	How is that you're not answering me?
	Let me let me join.
	Let me see if I let me see if I can clarify.
	We have really three separate systems.
	You have the caucus system, the primary system, and then the convention system where you have representatives that end up going instead of having the people themselves either caucus or vote in big numbers.
	So I I personally think it should be caucus or convention, but with that said, Jonathan, I mean DC is right in the sense that everybody knew what the system was going in.
	Now they've already are changing it back for four years from now.
	But did they really I mean we have people executives from the Republican Party coming on CNBC in the one interview, this happened several times, where they say the people don't pick the the candidate and he said no.
	Listen, I don't like the system.
	I have I have talked about three set rules that the Republican Party ought to give the states.
	One, you can be a caucus state or a primary state only.
	Two, you can be proportional or winner take all.
	Three, I think, especially on the first ballot, all delegates should be bound.
	All of them.
	So who do you say should tell the state?
	No, no, I'm saying listen.
	I'm not clear about what you just said.
	No, I'm saying it's a national party, DC, so I think there can be certain national rules, so there's less confusion.
	What about state sovereignty?
	Well, I just gave you options for the states, but I think when states have the ability to make like in Pennsylvania, for example, even though it worked out in Trump's favor in that particular case.
	I I don't like the idea, you know, uh in you go into a ballot box in Pennsylvania and you're voting for delegates and you have no idea who those delegates support, and meanwhile, y let's say in your case you want to support Ted Cruz.
	I think you ought to know which delegates support Ted Cruz and put those names next to them.
	But I'm saying going forward.
	With that said, everybody knew what the system was here.
	Now, as it relates to courting of delegates or at the state conventions, if if Ted Cruz is persuading his people to become those delegates, and that means on a second ballot, if there ever was one, I you can't fault him for that.
	He's working hard.
	Listen, I'll tell you this.
	I think that the Cruz campaign has been working extremely hard at this, but the thing that bothers me exactly the one little phrase you just said there, courting delegates.
	A delegate is supposed to be a representative of a district of people.
	There's a point you're making here that I think is ver on very firm ground, and that is that if the in I I think Arizona was not quite two to one.
	There was a pretty significant margin of victory by Trump.
	And and yes, I do on the first ballot for sure, they are bound to to Donald Trump.
	The second ballot is different.
	I understand what you're saying.
	We've talked about this, DC.
	You've been on the program, we've talked about well, what can you do uh as it relates to courting delegates, what can you offer plane rides, hotel rooms, stake dinners, etc.
	I look, I think both parties, frankly, can clean up their systems a little bit.
	I think you would probably agree that it could be done a lot better.
	I agree, but I want one thing I want to make a point about the idea of interacting with the delegates, because I've talked to delegates, and it's actually they're being campaigned too.
	They're like individuals who are being campaigned to by the campaigns.
	The campaigns are making a case for their man.
	And this is what they do with the public at large, and it's what they do with the delegates.
	They're not bribing them or even like buying them anything.
	They're saying, hey, here's what I stand for.
	Please vote for me because I'm the better candidate.
	That's what's going on.
	But I don't see how you don't have a problem with that and how Cruz saying that he's a a man of the people, how he doesn't have a problem with courting delegates and not courting the people.
	See, that's what I'm talking about.
	The people believe the people believe that this system is for them and by them.
	And it's not.
	It's just it's absolutely not.
	And I don't I don't understand why the Republican Party has not gotten behind this message.
	The people in the Republican Party, the conservatives, why they don't insist.
	Because the fact is the entire government is manipulated and monopolized by these two entities, the DNC and the RNC, and this system just shows that it's not for the people by the people.
	DC, I don't think you you recognize that the Republican Party is a national party, that the party is actually no party except that it's made up of people, and that I think to have standardized rules that also allow states to make decisions is important.
	But I I don't think I don't think that every state should be able to go completely rogue on their own as beneficial to a national party.
	Does that make sense to you?
	I'm really into state sovereignty and I think I don't I don't want to I don't want a national committee coming in and telling North Carolinians what to do.
	I don't want to know.
	What if a state decides that its representatives, their state legislature will decide the candidate, not the people?
	You don't want that to happen, do you?
	Well, I don't, but if that state decides however they want to do it, that's how they do it.
	They can they can choose delegates at the convention, however they want to do it.
	That's the sovereignty of the states.
	We do not live in this kind of monolithic system that people are suddenly imagining.
	Well, um I think uh I think I'm offering actually a lot more flexibility than you think, but I also think that being a national party in that sense, being made up of the people, that this would guarantee maximum participation of we the people.
	But you're for the the peop I I'm confused because you you don't like the national party dictating, yet you want the national party to be able to do that.
	But I think there can be certain di I think there could be certain standards of which the states have an ability to choose from those select standards without being able to go totally rogue and disenfranchise the participation.
	Well, I'm saying any c any state that has a convention that doesn't allow either caucus either doesn't allow caucus participation or outright primary participation, I think minimizes the numbers of people that have a say in selecting a candidate.
	But that's not true because those delegates know those delegates were selecting three things.
	Well, for example, if you would have had a primary in Colorado, a million people could have voted.
	And the way that the convention was designed in Colorado, yet 65,000 people participate.
	I I would rather have maximum participation.
	people could have showed up at their precincts and voted for those delegates.
	I totally understand.
	We're kind of going around in a circle though.
	All right, so what happens tomorrow if, you know, do you think Ted Cruz can pull this out even though the polls seem to be turning against him, especially in the last three days?
	Polls have been wrong before, they've been right before.
	We just don't know.
	Um it could be either way.
	And you're you're on record as saying you're going to support the winner, and but Ted Cruz was asked that question over the weekend, he did not give uh an affirmative answer.
	What was your reaction to that?
	Well, of course he's not going to say he's gonna play to the end until the an actual winner is chosen.
	But I do remember the first debate everyone was asked to raise their hand.
	Including Rubio, who came out and said he what was it when it was in uh New York, I can't remember exactly where it was where he came out and said I will vote for Trump because I'm not going to pick a socialist and a Marxist.
	Well Rubio said Trump has improved significantly and that he thinks that the will of the people should be if he's the nominee that we should stand behind the will of the people.
	Well the will of people is going to be heard no matter what even if it's the second ballot so I really want to stop it.
	I think the will of the people's been heard pretty much since uh Donald Trump has over a thousand or right at a thousand delegates.
	I mean the fact is the will of the people is we're more educated.
	We have smartphones, we have computers everywhere we go we're getting information and people realize that something is wrong.
	That's why Donald Trump has been so successful.
	And that's what really from just a campaign standpoint really kind of baffles my mind that none of these other people baffles your mind.
	Bobbles my mind bobbles my mind is that you say we're so smart and they have smartphones and they have all this information yet people in Colorado didn't know to show up at their precincts to pick their delegates and they said the system's rick.
	So are they ignorant or they're I never said the system is right.
	Not you Sean.
	I'm talking about the Trump supporters what I am saying though I I think you've got to make it easy for people to vote.
	And you know why?
	Because people are working 18 hours a day.
	Everybody I know is busting their ass because they got to pay the taxes and raise their kids.
	You know I I frankly I have time to just race in sign my name do my ballot and leave me alone at that point and they have that.
	They have that option it shouldn't be a game they they got they knew that they could go they it was an article one little article was written by paper.
	We're going around in circles I have listened responsibility as a Republican member of the DC by the way you've been a rock star on TV we really she we actually been using DC on TV now.
	She's a rock star.
	Yeah.
	Have you enjoyed it?
	I have had a lot of fun.
	It made your pen fall off you may that's my mind power.
	You know is that what it is you made that happen.
	All right I'm thank you so much.
	You know I don't even know what to make of some of these Republicans um that are losing their minds.
	I really don't know what to make of it.
	You know I told you earlier today George Will has essentially endorsed Hillary Clinton.
	Now you got Bill Crystal now trying to encourage a third party candidacy to stop Trump in the general election which of course would make Hillary president.
	Anyway Crystal has put out a hypothetical short list of third party candidates including Senator Rubio and Tom Cotton who could run against Trump if he becomes the Republican nominee.
	I mean why would you do this?
	This week with David Brinkley years and with Sam Donaldson all those years and when Will would battle Donaldson and Cokey Roberts on the panel he's the lone Reagan defender from so many years ago and his arguments were stunningly effective and he usually left everybody else in the dust and I wish I could say the same about his latest Washington Post column.
	If Trump is nominated the GOP must keep him out of the White House.
	Wow think back how many times over the years the Republican establishment types I had no idea how much they really hate Tea Party people.
	I had no idea how much and by the way they hate Cruz as much as Trump they'd be doing the same thing in my view if it was if it was likely that Cruz was getting the nomination they hate anybody but their people and their people were beated but were beaten resoundly in this in this battle.
	Now we're going to pick up our toys and go home.
	Imagine when Bob Dole ran or John McCain ran.
	Or for the people that didn't like Mitt Romney.
	If they went, well, we're going to run a third party conservative.
	Imagine what their reaction would be.
	Now you have somebody that is not in the establishment, two insurgency candidates, and they've done everything that they can do.
	And it also confirms what I have been telling you for a long time.
	And that is these establishment people are going to work hard to defeat, be it Cruz or Trump as the nominee.
	so that they can wag their fingers on national TV and television.
	tell you the people how stupid you are and how dumb you are and how you should have listened to them.
	And you should have picked their establishment candidate which we would have probably watched lose again.
	Well how can you say that They could well they couldn't be Cruz and Trump.
	None of them It's unbelievable to me.
	This is now what we have.
	What you know he goes on to say were Trump to be nominated, conservatives would have two tasks.
	One would be to help him lose fifty states.
	In other words a punishment for his comprehensive disdain of conservative essentials like the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation's civic life.
	Second conservatives can try and save uh try to save from the anti Trump undertow as many senators, representatives, governors, and state legislators as possible.
	Trump's nominated Republicans working to purge him and his manner from public life will reap the considerable satisfaction of preserving the identity of their 162 year old party while working to see that they forego only four years of the enjoyment of executive power George Will.
	And then you got Bill Crystal pushing for a third party, which guarantees Hillary wins.
	If Missouri had gone a different way with by two thousand votes, a Lenoir a little bit different could have been a little different kind of outcome.
	But Trump is both a very good candidate and pretty lucky in winning some key states by a small market.
	Uh and now he looks in s to be strong.
	Let's see what happens in Arizona and so forth.
	Yeah I think a lot of conserv some conservatives I shouldn't exaggerate are looking at an independent Republican candidate.
	Someone can get on the ballot pretty easily it's not impossible.
	So what's the what's the way forward there electorally is that just to stop Donald Trump from being the next president or could a conservative slash independent win.
	Have you looked at the math there?
	I've looked at the math a little I would it would be tough to win but not impossible.
	I think the key number is the one you guys showed a little bit ago which is how many Republicans don't want to vote for Donald Trump in the general election.
	That's something you know it's 30, 40 I can't say it anyway how many times have conservatives been told to suck it up with a moderate candidate?
	Now some of you argue, well all right well Ted Cruz is the most conservative candidate in the race he's the constitutional okay but he's got to win.
	Tomorrow's probably a must-win day for him in Indiana if he wants to continue on anyway eight hundred nine four one Sean, you want to be a part of the program uh let's go to Steve in the Pocono's in Pennsylvania.
	Steve, hi, how are you?
	Glad you called and uh welcome to the Sean Hannity Show.
	Hey Sean, how you doing uh big time fan night and day.
	Uh I could talk to you about a lot of things but I just want to thank you about going out there and uh with this Pennsylvania primary and putting it out there the lists and telling everybody how important it is and you inspired me to go out and make my own lists and go get people to go vote.
	And uh you're right many many people clueless clueless.
	Well I gotta tell you I I've gotten a lot of positive feedback.
	It was not to favor any one candidate over the other we put all the people that were supporting uh Donald Trump all the people supporting Ted Cruz and the very few people if any that were supporting John Kasich or at least publicly announcing they were for Kasich.
	And the idea that Pennsylvania thinks it's okay to put a a list of unattached delegates on a ballot having no idea which candidates they would support to me is malpractice.
	They're not doing a service for the people of their state.
	They have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of you know the the lives the people are living and how busy we all are all right back uh to our phones.
	Naples, Florida, Fox 925 Fox News Radio what's up Shelley?
	How are you?
	Good Sean.
	Love the show.
	How's things down in Paradise?
	I know I I met you down here in Paradise one time at one of your favorite places downtown.
	Where what place was it?
	Can I say it on the air?
	Yeah sure why not chops.
	I was I was probably there at a table of fifty right you were in good company.
	I uh I usually go with entourages of uh family members and friends when we go down I don't get to go very often my family was down there last week that a great time it's lovely.
	Well come back down thank you very much.
	So I am a Trump supporter I'm a diehard Republican I am a political junkie.
	It's Fox day and night I uh donate I stand with signs at location voting areas, I do campaign call outs and um I think what makes America so great is that we all still believe that we do have a voice and I've dragged my husband and my family and my friends into this political phrase, especially this year saying, look, if you want to complain or if you want to make a change and you want you have to have a voice.
	You have to get involved.
	You have to be passionate.
	So if the establishment or the RNC does not support once again, I I hope it's Trump, but whoever it is that has the most delegates and they go into a whether you call it brokered or contested convention, uh, I think I speak volumes for probably a lot of people.
	I do not ever see myself having any interest in politics or supporting a candidate, and maybe even voting because it will prove to me that really there is no voice of America, and I think it'll just be a sad day for the country.
	Well, I gotta tell you, I mean, if Trump did two things, let's say that he eliminated Obamacare and he actually built the wall.
	Uh-huh.
	He he can't spend any more money than Obama's spend in turn of in terms of building up our nation's debt.
	But you know, those are two massive things that would improve the country.
	Those two things.
	And I'll add a third thing, which he's told me in just about every interview, which is he'd make America energy independent.
	And you know what?
	I I don't understand those that are so bitter that they're people lost.
	I I understand the emotional tie, the emotional process people go through in picking a candidate.
	I really do.
	I have great compassion for those people that put themselves out there and eventually they don't get the nomination and how hard that process has gotta be for them and their families.
	They put their heart and their soul.
	It's not easy running for president.
	And I can tell you because I've seen it up close and personal too many times.
	It is a great sacrifice and toll on one and one's family to put yourself out there like this.
	But I also think that the process being so hard is actually a good thing because this is the hardest job that exists, and if you can't handle the process, you're not gonna be able to handle the job.
	All right, let's get to our busy phones.
	Blake in Los Angeles.
	Blake, welcome to the Sean Hannity Show.
	What's up, sir?
	Thank you so much for taking my call, Sean.
	I appreciate everything you do for us, brother.
	Um by the way, next time you're at In N Out Burger, order one in my name and get get a double double, lettuce rap, animal style.
	You got it, I'll get the Sean special.
	Sean special, that's what we're gonna call it.
	What's going on?
	Hey, uh last uh the twenty eighth uh Thursday was National Take Your Son and Daughters to work today, so I took the opportunity to pull my kids out of school and uh we just uh headed down to Orange County to feed Donald Trump at his rally, and it was awesome.
	Was that the Costa Ma no, not was that the Costa Mesa one or no?
	Yeah, the Costa Mesa one on fair ground fair.
	Did you see all of the uh the people with the Mexican flags?
	We saw some as we were coming out, but I'm a very over overprotected father, and I made sure to avoid all that and and smart.
	Of course you've avoided it.
	Why would you walk in the middle of that with your kids?
	That'd be dumb.
	Exactly.
	But um the protesters, they did a great job, you know, that right on cue.
	They just solidified Mr. Trump's message on, you know, why we don't want the this kind of uh uh people in the country and you know the illegal immigrants, and so you know, they did a great job.
	But Mr. Trump also did an amazing job.
	My kids were so excited to see him.
	You know, they were on their chair yelling and screaming, and you know, he's just done a wonderful job getting my kids excited about this country, you know, the process and his candidacy.
	I will tell you this, and I've been to all of these different rallies around the country with everybody, and sometimes people don't know it, but I'm actually off off stage on the side and I've watched a lot of the candidates.
	It's really uh an unbelievable experience to take your kids to see all of these people.
	It's a great experience, and I'm glad that this year we had so many opportunities to be able to allow people sort of in that environment with the many town halls that we've done.
	And it's been a lot of fun, and I think a lot of people really have enjoyed it.
	Uh all right, we're gonna put two callers on here at once, Jason.
	Pay close attention.
	We've got CJ is in Charleston, South Carolina.
	Sandy is in El Centro, California.
	They both seem to disagree.
	CJ say hi to Sandy, say Sandy, say hi to CJ.
	Hi.
	All right, C CJ we'll start with you.
	What's your point?
	Okay, hey, I'm just giving you a call because I hear you every day and I hear um you you know, you want to be fair to everybody.
	Um I think Donald Trump's giving everybody a bit of a sales pitch that they're falling for.
	I hear him come on your show and talk about the penny plan, which is obviously your biggest thing, and I appreciate you for sticking up for conservatism, but the reason I'm never Trump is because Trump is diluting conservatism on issues such as abortion on gay rights.
	Um the list goes on and on.
	So um I think it's a different thing.
	So you don't you don't believe racists?
	Wait a minute, you don't believe that he's so you don't believe him.
	I've asked him the abortion question many times.
	You don't believe that he's pro life that but makes the exception for rape and incest.
	You don't believe him.
	Sean, you and I both know that the Bible says you will know them by their fruits, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruits.
	And a man that um that spent his money bribing politicians and brags about scrum.
	Listen, but you're changing topics.
	CJ, you're changing topics on me.
	You don't believe him when he says he's pro-life now that he he that he changed his view on the topic.
	You don't believe him.
	Well, should I should I believe somebody who's changed their view on it or should I believe somebody that's been fighting with the listen, why are you fighting with me?
	I'm just asking a simple question.
	You don't know you don't believe him.
	No, sir, I don't I don't know.
	Okay, that's fair.
	Sandy, what's your reaction to this?
	Um I think people can change.
	I know as a young girl, I had a totally different opinion than I do as an older woman.
	So I do see that people can change.
	And the reason I like Trump is because he's putting Americans first.
	And illegal immigration is a is a big problem with me.
	Um we've got to change that.
	I also believe that we've got to give the power to the people.
	And he's got the most votes, the most delegates, and if we give the nomination to him, or if he earns it by having that, then I think we're gonna win in November.
	If we overturn the will of the people and give it to someone who has not won the people, like uh Ted Cruz, then um you're just not gonna have the backing.
	May I respond substance?
	Yeah.
	And okay, so with immigration, uh my my problem with it, Sean, is you give to you give Ted the tough questions, but you don't give Trump the tough questions about what he really thinks about immigration, what the tape that the New York Times won't release about it.
	And then if you're and slow down.
	You can't say things that aren't true.
	I have asked him about it, but go ahead.
	Okay, okay.
	Well, I apologize.
	And lastly, what I was gonna say, I'm all for power to the people.
	Ted Cruz is uh is is the last leader of the liberty movement.
	And so when Donald Trump talks about national run health care with health care savings accounts, that's referring to Sololinski's principle that Hillary Clinton cites in her um and and rules for radicals.
	Well, healthcare savings accounts actually comes from the book Patient Power that was put together by the Libertarian think tank uh the Cato Institute.
	But he answered yes to yes, I would I would want nationally run they got him in a gotcha question because he hadn't studied the issue far enough, Sean.
	So let me ask you last question.
	If it's Hillary versus Trump, who are you gonna vote for?
	I'm gonna vote for a libertarian candidate, my friend.
	I I want someone who represents my values and not someone who's gonna delute the conservative the the conservative movement.
	That would be a half a vote for Hillary in my opinion.
	I say that respectfully.
	You know, Sean, uh mathematically eliminated means that the voters have already said no to Ted Cruz.
	That's what that means.
	Now people say mathematically eliminated, they don't get the true meaning of that.
	All right, I'm gonna let you both go.
	As you can hear, there's a lot of passion on all ends of this, and I completely understand it.

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