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Here we talk about the far right, their fellow travellers, and what they say to each other when they think we're not listening.
The show is hosted by Daniel Harper and me, Jack Graham.
We're both he-him.
Be aware, we cover difficult, sometimes nasty subject matter, so content warnings always apply.
So, Daniel, I don't normally do this sort of thing, but on behalf of pretty much everybody else on the planet...
Dude, what the fuck?!
I stayed up late watching Returns come in, and I went to bed about 1230.
I mean, so not super late, but I had to work the next day.
And I was literally texting with someone going like, well, I'm going to bed now, but it's not looking great for Kamala.
And then I woke up in the morning to messages from you guys in the UK who had seen the news while I was asleep.
And yeah, it's...
This is bad.
This is real bad.
Like, yeah, no, this is pretty awful.
This is really bad.
This is really bad.
There's no point sugarcoating it.
That's why I've called this episode Trump Wins.
I went out of my way last time we did an episode about an election like this to call it Trump Loses because I thought that was much nicer than calling it Biden Wins or whatever.
I thought Trump Loses, yeah, excellent.
But, yeah, I have to say, I mean, clearly, I don't know shit about fuck.
Clearly, I mean, I was expecting to be calling this one Trump loses again, or Trump loses to the reckoning, or something like that, you know.
But no, it's Trump wins.
Trump wins.
And a clean win.
Like, this is not, like, by 10,000 votes the way he did in 16.
You know, this is...
You know, he's going to win the popular vote.
I mean, all the vote isn't in yet, but he's going to have like 3 million more votes than Harris this year in the popular vote.
And he won every swing state.
Two of them, Nevada and Arizona, have not been called yet, but he's clearly ahead and they've got like 98% in.
He's going to win Nevada and Arizona.
They just haven't called it yet.
Yeah.
For the first time, his third time at bat, he's won the popular vote.
Yeah.
He's getting more successful the more times he's served for president.
Well, you know, I think it's a very admirable trait of you Americans that you admire and reward stick-to-itiveness.
You know, you just keep...
Somebody keeps trying.
Eventually, you'll say, okay, all right, you've worked hard for this.
You can have it.
Yeah, that's kind of how Biden got in the first time.
He tried a few times in the 80s, and, you know, then he tries in 2020.
And, all right, well, I guess, you know, we're just going to...
Man, I've got so many thoughts about that, but...
I mean, I guess the obvious thing is to kind of do the thing that everybody's doing right now and say that the reason this happened is because of my pet thing that I've always believed to be true.
And so I'm going to do that now.
And that is ultimately the Democratic Party for decades has not done really much of anything to support labor power and to support workers' protections and that sort of thing beyond the very, very basic things in which they are better than the Republicans.
And because of that, because they have not given like kind of broad-based economic supportive policies to people, except for during the pandemic, except for during the worst of the pandemic, and even that was a pittance, frankly, compared to what they could have done.
But the people just, you know, without the impending threat of COVID and the impending like existing presidency of Donald Trump and, you know, just that pure negativity, people didn't turn out.
People just didn't turn out.
And that's just, that's a large-scale structural problem that the Democratic Party has had for my entire lifetime.
It's, it's literally been since, since, since Carter, really.
Even before, really since, since, you know, Nixon, the Nixon era, they've just, you know.
I'm a friend of the show, Ed Vermeule.
I think this is the third episode in a row that I've mentioned Ed Vermeule.
I read a lot of his stuff, and I follow him more closely during the election season because he's...
I'm a PhD political scientist who knows this shit.
And his book Chaotic Neutral was just about the whole thing that Democrats do is they always just move for the right.
They lose and they move for the right.
Always.
Always and forever.
That's what they've done for decades now.
That's what they're in the process of doing, you know, two days after losing an election that they had to win in order to maintain any kind of viability as a body politic.
And They've just fundamentally failed.
And this is completely...
I mean, I don't know.
It's more complicated than that, but this really is a case of completely unforced errors on the part of the Democratic Party.
It's just like...
The system of the Democratic Party and just the individual people involved.
I think it's a fundamental failure.
This is not a failure of a badly run campaign.
I think the campaign was run well in terms of the way you judge these things.
They lost because they have a failure of governance.
And that is not something you can solve in four years.
I mean, it's something that's just, they just failed.
And that's the long and the short of it for me.
I agree with you that they mounted about as good a campaign in normal conventional terms, which of course is the only set of terms that you can expect these people to have under the circumstances.
And the circumstances were, of course, that they were starting late.
With a candidate who is already known to be unpopular with the electorate, and we can talk about the fact that that's partly to do with misogyny and racism, misogynoir.
I agree with you.
It remains a fact that she's been shown to be unpopular with the electorate.
They were introducing...
I mean, she was the vice president, but still, a lot of people, they don't know because they don't follow the news, they don't follow politics.
They were trying to introduce her to the electorate very, very late in the game.
And that is on Joseph Biden.
I mean, he should never have run in the first place.
They got away with it in 2020.
It wasn't anything to do with him that they won, but they did.
But...
He should never have been the president, and he certainly should never have tried to run for a second term.
And a huge amount of it, I mean, if we're talking about personal factors, the subjective factor, a huge amount of this, a huge amount of the blame is on him.
And he is such a vain, selfish, arrogant man.
He will go to his grave without ever realizing that or accepting it, which burns me, I have to admit.
And, yeah, I mean, I'm very sceptical on the whole of this idea that if the Democrats moved left, they would do better electorally.
I wonder about that.
Because I think the problems here go fundamentally deeper than the idea that the American electorate is sort of crying out for social democratic reformism, you know, left social democracy, Bernieonomics, or whatever you want to call it.
I mean, Bernie's recent statement strikes me as correct in some sort of basic principles, but also profoundly wrongheaded in certain ways.
Trump got almost half the union member vote.
The idea that you're going to turn that around by turning the Democratic Party into some sort of approximation of a European Social Democratic Party, with all the other factors in play, I'm very skeptical.
I'm certainly enormously skeptical of the idea that you can appeal to Trump voters with that sort of thing, like people are going to abandon the fundamental dynamics of racism and sexism and nativism and jingoism and nationalism because you offer them Norway-style social democracy or something like like people are going to abandon the fundamental dynamics of racism That's bullshit.
But it's also clearly the case that the Democratic Party failed to offer its own electorate what they wanted this time around in campaign and in government, right?
Now, this is what's happened.
Trump seems to...
I mean, I'm not up to date on the news, but from what I've been gleaning, Trump seems to have lost...
His vote is about the same as 2020.
He's lost 2 or 3 million votes.
So, his manifesting competence and criminality has shown him of about 2 or 3 million votes.
The Democrats have lost...
13 to 14 million votes or 19% of their previous vote or something like that.
Those are the sorts of numbers, right?
That's happened because of the unpopularity of the Biden administration.
The Biden administration, people have said, well, he did move left and it didn't work.
And it's true, and I've said this several times on this podcast, that the Biden administration has been probably the best American presidential administration of my lifetime, the most progressive of my lifetime.
That's an incredibly low bar.
Please do not misunderstand me.
But it has done some good things, or it's started to do some good things.
It's started to address things like the economics of climate change and stuff like that.
And the argument that you're getting from some people is, well, Biden moved left.
He moved in a progressive direction.
He moved in a social democratic direction.
And it didn't work.
Ergo, that's not the answer.
What that argument fails to take into account, of course, is that the Biden administration didn't do anything like as much of that as was needed.
It didn't even begin to do as much of those sorts of things as was needed on a whole host of issues from Israel, Palestine, To climate change, to socio-cultural issues.
You know, he went to a picket line and marched with striking workers.
Okay, that's lovely.
That's not enough.
That's not enough of a pro-worker policy that is needed.
And the worst thing, of course, the thing that they've been caught up in, the Democrats have been caught up in, is what people are talking about as this sort of worldwide wave of rejection of incumbents.
Which is coming from the fact that people, the post-pandemic economy, is one of hyperinflation.
Now, if you look at the liberal media, they will talk endlessly about how, oh, we've had the best recovery, the post-COVID recovery in the civilized world, in the Western world.
And then they will talk about how great the stock market's doing and stuff like that.
That does not help ordinary people.
Ordinary people are not affected by that.
When they think about the economy, and obviously a huge number of people voted on the economy, They voted on the fact that their bills are higher.
They're voting on the fact that they're having trouble paying their food bills.
They're having trouble making rent.
They're having trouble paying for their childcare.
And the Biden administration fundamentally abandoned people to that.
It left people at the mercy of global inflationary pressures and the money markets.
And no amount of lovely rhetoric and certainly no amount of campaigning on look how friendly I am with Liz fucking Cheney.
Yeah.
This Cheney stuff is pretty indefensible.
Like, if they'd won, you'd at least, like, grit your teeth and go, okay, what, they won, so whatever.
But, you know, to be with those people, to take Dick Cheney's endorsement with a smile and then lose, I mean, that's just unconsciously evil to me.
Yeah.
And it's a direct replay of the mistake Hillary made in 2016, where somebody in her campaign said something like, well, for every working class voter we lose in Michigan, we'll pick up two, you know, upwardly mobile middle class voters in this place or that place.
That was their gambit in 2016.
And this has already failed.
Chasing Republican voters at the expense of your base has already failed.
Yeah, because, like, Republicans, I mean, Republican voters, given the choice between a Republican or a Republican-like, are going to choose a Republican.
Like, that's just, you know, like, there's just, I think we don't disagree, but we're, like, emphasizing different elements, you know?
I agree with a lot of what you had to say there, in terms of, like, Biden being particularly disliked, being particularly not the right person for the job.
I mean, I think, ultimately, like, the real, like, this election, like, in retrospect, this election was lost.
Again, let me get on my hobby horse.
This election was lost in March 2020 when the powers that be, Barack Obama picked up a phone and eliminated Bernie as the candidate.
They came together and said, it's not Bernie.
It's anybody but Bernie.
And then it has to be Biden because he's the old guy.
He's going to come in.
And they run him.
And then...
I agree with you.
The thing that he should have done is say, I'm going to run, I'm going to serve one term, and I'm going to get out of the way so fresh blood can come in and we can rebuild this.
Electorally, in terms of how to run a campaign, that's absolutely what should have happened.
And to drop out three months before election day...
When forced to...
When forced to, when essentially it was just, I mean, you know, if you think Kamala did badly here, I mean, Biden would have done, like, that would have been ridiculous, like, you know?
That might have been like a, you know, Reagan-Mondale blowout at that point, you know?
The other choice, of course, is back in 2016 when Bernie was the upstart, to not crush him then, to allow this more lefty vision of the party.
I think I'm saying that this is a long-term failure of democratic governance.
attracting as voters what we've actually done with the time that we've been in power.
And ultimately what Democrats do is, you know, oh, our hands are tied.
We can't do that.
We need more votes.
We need the Senate parliamentarian to make the right call.
We need this and that.
And it's always like, well, you can't have debt relief.
You can't have lower unemployment.
You can't have an increase of the minimum wage.
You can't have all of these things that would vastly improve people's lives.
But we're going to give tech billionaires, we're going to give them, you know, the stuff that they want.
We're going to give, because that's innovation, that's, you know, that's building an economy.
And I mean, you know, this is, you know, I learned it from, I learned it on your knee, man.
This is neoliberalism, you know, like, you know, it's the meme, you know, what, you mean it's always neoliberalism?
Always has been.
It really is.
That just tells the whole story.
I don't think this is a great success for Donald Trump as a person in the sense of he just ran a great campaign and this is going to – other Trumpist candidates have not been successful.
DeSantis and Abbott and all these other guys, Carrie Lake, who have attempted to get some of that Trump magic.
They're not Trump, and they can't run that kind of campaign the way Trump can.
And it's not that he did something brilliant and succeeded.
It's not like the McDonald's stunt that people are just flocking to his candidacy because he put on an apron for 45 minutes.
It's He's Donald Trump, and he's a famous guy, and he looks like he was a big CEO hotshot on The Apprentice for 15 years or whatever, and he's been in the public eye for 40 years, and you can't overcome that.
The only way you can overcome it is when there's a literal global pandemic happening, then you've got to win against him.
But I don't think this was like...
Democrats fundamentally did something wrong electorally.
I don't think that the Harris campaign failed at something basic, except for toadying up to Liz Cheney and moving Crichton.
You know, they had so much energy and momentum when Kamala first came out and they picked Tim Walls and Walls is coming out, doing it as progressive bona fides and being a genuine human being.
I think one of the things that's really depressing to me about this, among all the other things, is that Tim Walls is probably done as a top-tier nationwide candidate at this point.
You don't get to be on that.
If you're on the losing end of this ticket, it's not even anything he did.
He's just like, we're not going to see.
He's going to be the governor of Minnesota, but he's never going to be anything bigger than that.
Yeah, because he's tainted with the loss, and also he's too far left in their universe.
That's the problem in their universe.
If you look at his actual record in Minnesota, the Minnesota Republicans are actually Republican nice.
They will actually support centrist things.
It's a very different state, Minnesota, but...
Tim Wallace is coming out there and saying all these great things and doing all the great lines and really talking about working people and wanting to work together and wanting to build on this.
And then the last few weeks, they just pivot completely to, no, we want to be friends with Republicans.
I work with Republicans.
And you're not drawing a difference between you and them, except they're saying, well, they're against the process.
They're against...
Like, Donald Trump tried to overthrow the results of the election, etc., etc., etc.
He's a meanie.
He's all these things.
Instead of saying, the Republicans are fundamentally a force to be dealt with in U.S. politics.
We need to get away from these kinds of things.
We need to actually support good things and be against the bad things.
And when you pivot like that, I think that's, you know, if there's one, like, flaw, it's just, you know, they did court to the center, and they did court right, because they think, you know, look, they thought minority, that, you know, black people and Hispanic people and queer people, you know, that all these people are just, you've got nowhere else to go, so you're going to stick with us, because you're just going to vote for us.
And it turns out that, you know, Trump won historic margins among non-white people in this election.
I think that's something that we really need to take a good look at.
I know I've seen some commentary on it already, and I'm not prepared to make hard and fast statements.
But Trump won a whole lot of black people and a whole lot of brown people voted for Donald Trump.
There are people who voted for AOC and Trump.
In my state, Slotkin is now going to be our new senator.
So we gained a blue senator in my state by 9,000 votes or something.
I forget the exact number.
There are people who voted for her against the Republican candidate and then voted for Trump because Trump crushed Kamala in Michigan by a couple of points.
But still, it is a decisive win here in Michigan.
Um, and so like, that's, that's the, that's the paradox, right?
That's the thing is like, they like Trump because he's Trump, even though they don't like the things he says, I mean, you know, like, you know, like, you know, It's always been that paradox with Trump is that people assume he's not going to do the things he obviously says he's going to do.
And they just vote for him.
So, I mean, I don't know.
It's...
The Democrats ran a pro-establishment campaign to a country that is sick to fucking death of the political establishment.
They ran a campaign on he has no respect for American institutions of power.
Millions of people in that country, for very defensible reasons, share that lack of respect.
They ran a campaign on he's a felon.
To a country with millions of people who have been criminalized by an authoritarian police and criminal justice system.
Well, and that particular case was the most, like, I mean, he was definitely guilty of those crimes.
Of course, yeah.
That was a real tiki-tiki.
There isn't a single crime he's ever been accused of that he isn't guilty of.
This guy's done everything.
It's fundamentally because the Democrats see their base as college-educated suburbanites who like gay rights but also like their 401ks to go up.
they see themselves as serving like that particular like the you know teachers you know like tech workers you know office workers that's who they see them that's that's who they see as like the typical American right and they just do fuck all for anybody who's not in that group I mean and again Biden look there's one thing that really encapsulates this for me it's like Biden during the during the rail workers strike or the proposed strike during that during that whole process yeah Biden
Biden took out their ability.
I forget the exact details on this.
I am not a member of that union, so I apologize.
They were asking for very, very basic concessions from the railroads.
Being able to have five unpaid sick days, being able to not work...
48 hours at a time, like very, very, very mild concessions from the railroads.
And Biden just crushed their ability to actually, he wouldn't, like, I forget, again, I forget the exact thing, but it was like the Biden administration shut down their ability to actually strike for it.
And then later, some months later behind the scenes, granted them those rights, like just by fiat, just could give them certain number of days and certain concessions.
So, this is the exact opposite thing if you're trying to run on your union record that you want to do.
You want to make the big splashy thing the thing of supporting the union, supporting the workers.
And this has been the typical thing that Democrats do is they go behind the scenes and take that away.
Or do very little to maintain it.
But you do the splashy thing up front of actually supporting the workers and then people see that and people will remember that.
And suddenly you're the union guy.
But I'm doing all this stuff behind the scenes, doing it all, like, just through pushing papers around on a desk.
And, you know, no, I'm being a great...
You know, again, you're right.
Biden, on the numbers, is the greatest president of my lifetime.
That is a piss-poor job, but he is the greatest president of my lifetime.
Nobody knows about it because they didn't do anything in particular to tout that fact.
And they didn't do anything in the process of, like, legitimate...
You know, Bernie has this ability.
And because it's only good comparatively.
It's not good in real terms.
It's not good enough in real terms.
To make a difference to people's lives, to millions of people's lives, they look the same.
Millions of people in that country, they feel that nothing's got better.
In fact, they feel that things have got worse, for very good material reasons, as far as they're concerned.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, you know, Bernie or Walls, like, these are people who held jobs until they're, like...
He was an assistant football coach and a geography teacher in Minnesota.
That is the most typical American middle-aged dude you will ever find.
That is so wholesome, it hurts.
You know what I mean?
He, in the late nineties, he like helped get the, uh, the, uh, uh, gay and lesbian group founded in the, in the school where he taught in the late nineties.
That that's a pretty radical move for, for, for, for a man of that type to take, you know, um, these are, this is, this is a legitimately respectable guy.
He did a lot of shit during the 2020 uprising.
I'm not like, I know people in Minnesota.
I know people in Minneapolis.
I am not saying Tim Walls is like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
This is a guy who actually has this kind of credential.
He can come out there and speak from the heart about actually having gone through this kind of life.
Joe Biden, regardless of his age, has been a senator.
He's been a senator since 72 or something like that.
He's spent his entire life in the annals of power.
He's one of the architects of neoliberalism in America.
One of his old nicknames is Credit Card Joe, before he was vice president, because he helped fund or he helped set the legislation for and regulations for the current, like, usurious credit card laws in the United States.
You taught me this.
You're talking about learning things at my knee.
I learned about this at your knee.
I learned about why all the credit card companies have their headquarters in Delaware.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
I think we did that one on Mike.
I remember that now.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, Wilmington, Delaware.
There's a particular building that has, you know.
Yeah, and Civil Forfeiture, he's one of the prime movers behind that.
Absolute fucking outrageous scandal.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And he helped Clarence Thomas get onto the Supreme Court by attacking Anita Hill.
You know, talk about...
I mean, there's the entirety of American politics over the last 40 years in a nutshell, isn't it?
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Well, I mean, God, we're gonna, like, I think, I think, I'm enjoying this, I'm having a great time, but I think we do need to talk about, like, what follows from all this, like, except the loss, and except Trump's victory, and just, you know, what follows from that, and the number one thing in my mind is the Supreme Court,
so, but I mean, it's so fascinating to me that the most impactful person in American politics over the last 40 years is now Donald Trump.
Yeah.
By a wide margin.
He has reshaped, through sheer force of personality, he has reshaped the way we do politics.
And that's just fascinating.
Just through the power of rich white guy entitlement.
Rich white guy and lying and bullshitting.
That's all it ever was.
And so many books are going to be written.
I mean, assuming there's still academia that exists in 10 or 20 years.
So many books are going to be written about this guy.
I'm only happy that he's as old as he is, because it just means he's just not going to last that much longer.
I mean, he's just not going to make it.
And, you know, whatever – as horrible as J.D. Vance is, you know, if he runs in 29 or if he runs in 28, then, you know, that's another problem.
But, like, again, the Trumpist candidates do not seem to be able to grab the lightning in the bottle the way that Trump can.
And so it's just a different phenomenon.
But no, he has completely reshaped our politics in a way that like, I mean, you got to go back to like Nixon or FDR to really find somebody who really like reshaped our politics in so short a time.
Trump would not be, would not be successful.
He would not be a threat in the same way had the conservative movement not spent decades building up systems that he could use to, um, to do these horrible things.
You know, like, again, we are going to start talking about the Supreme court here in a minute, but like they spent decades putting their people in place for doing all this.
Background work in the legal systems to make it to where when they got somebody like Trump in, he could just like hands, he could just, and they just handed him a list of candidates.
So these are the ones just go, go, go wild.
And that's what he did, you know?
So, I mean, do we have anything else you want to say about the election itself, or should we move on into, like, kind of impacts?
I think I do want to gesture a couple of other things, which is, I mean, you mentioned the fact that Trump got unprecedentedly high levels of voting among minority communities, people of color, black people, Latino people, and so on.
I think there's a real key there, because I think it shows you that, I mean, one of the fundamental assumptions that people like sort of democratic campaign strategists Always seem to work on is the idea that people vote according to their economic interests.
They do not.
They really do not.
They vote on how they feel and they vote on cultural issues and emotional stuff like that.
And you have millions of people in the United States now who are people of color who are manifestly going to be targeted.
Their lives are going to be made materially worse by any Republican government, let alone a Trump government, who are nevertheless going to vote Republican because of social issues, because of their feelings about cultural and social issues.
And this gives us a way into the fact that reactionary politics, far-right ideology, is now deeply embedded in every corner of American life.
Somebody, I think it was Michael Hobbes was talking about this on Blue Sky.
It's seeped throughout the entire society.
And it's happened because of the media environment to a huge extent.
Obviously, there's a seedbed for it to grow in.
But it's happened because of this media environment.
And part of it, of course, is that we have a deeply reactionary corporate media.
Establishment media, legacy media, whatever you want to say, but we also have this new, completely new tech culture, tech media culture, which generates...
The Republicans have a vast, incredibly powerful, incredibly persuasive, completely separate from the mainstream media ecosystem of podcasts and live streams and influencers that We're churning out fascist propaganda of the most virulent, aggressive, vicious kind constantly now.
It is constant.
It is everywhere online.
And you are getting a huge number of people affected by this.
It's not like it was 10 years ago or 15 years ago where people say, you know, that's an internet thing.
The internet is a part of everybody's life now.
It is where millions upon millions upon millions of people live and it is absolutely soaked in fascist ideology.
That is something that we are really going to have to deal with as a massive cultural shift.
And obviously that's baked into the power of Silicon Valley as this massive complex of capital and cultural political power.
That's a huge part of it too.
But there's phrases like post-truth and everything.
That's what we're talking about here.
We're talking about a massive...
Fascist ideology misinformation system.
And millions of people are living in it every day.
And we kind of need to...
We're in a catch-22.
We kind of need to get rid of the system that produces that situation in order to be in a position to get rid of the system that produces that situation.
Right, exactly.
And it has to be...
One thing...
Sorry, this is something that I think you and I can take some pride in.
We've been documenting this process for like five years now.
Yeah.
You and I have been part of documenting this process.
That's arguably the initial remit of the podcast, to talk about how these far-right ideas get inserted into more mainstream places.
It's just increasingly...
I'm going to talk about this at the end of the podcast.
Where do we go from here?
Arguably, we're not even talking about the extreme right anymore.
We're just talking about the right wing.
We're just talking about stuff that's just on the internet now.
Because it's been completely remade.
I first started really tracking this stuff.
Gamergate was the big moment.
That was 10 years ago.
All that stuff, the MRA, Manosphere stuff from Gamergate from 2015, that hasn't gone away.
It is now the mainstream.
Mainstream thought.
It is everyday thought and opinion for millions upon millions of people, particularly younger people now.
It's Tim Pool, it's Charlie Kirk, it's all these guys.
That is the universe they live in.
They live in the reality of Andrew Tate.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I guess one more thing I'll say just electorally.
The uncommitted movement in Dearborn, they went very heavily for Jill Stein and Trump.
They voted against Kamala Harris.
Trump won like Dearborn.
Trump won the city of Dearborn.
That's That's amazing.
I know that one because that's my home state, and that's not too far from where I live.
In particular, being slightly nicer to Gaza protesters, just as an electoral strategy, you might have won Michigan if you, again, given just the slightest bit of humanity to the people of Gaza, been slightly less mockingly genocidal.
Maybe, just maybe, those people might have held their nose and voted for you.
But, you know, it ultimately wouldn't have mattered for the overall election.
But it really, like, I find it personally offensive that, like, she lost to Michigan on this issue.
It's like, the numbers don't lie.
The number of people who would have voted for Kamala, who voted for...
If you just took...
You can't take literally just the Jill Stein voters and, like, flip the state.
It's actually lower than that.
Jill Stein had no effect on this election.
But that issue was very salient here in the state.
And...
You also can't say, and this is the one thing I like, you know, the whole thing in 2016 that everybody said is like, you know, Hillary should have campaigned in Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
And man, both Harris and Trump were all over my state in Pennsylvania in particular.
I don't know how much they did in Wisconsin.
I'm sure there's a lot, but they were all over, like they were in either Michigan or Wisconsin.
every day for the last like three weeks, it's been like unrelenting in terms of the amount of coverage and the amount of like cities that they've stopped in and the number of events that they've done and they still lost.
So at least, um, you know, I still think, I still think Hillary Clinton probably should have campaigned in Michigan and Pennsylvania, but you know, it's a pretty, it's, it's, it's at least telling that like, well, it wasn't a guarantee, you know, so, oh.
It was a moment right back there at the very start of the Harris campaign when it looked like she might be, for a Democrat, obviously, everything's relative.
She might be going to be reasonably good on this.
She had some talks with the uncommitted people.
They were making some noises that sounded good about Gaza.
They completely caved in on that.
She was sneering and condescending to protesters, and they do this both sides thing where every time the issue comes up, they start talking about protecting Israel and get the hostages back, and obviously also justice for Palestinians.
But adverts are different depending on where you live.
The hypocrisy of it...
Absolutely manifest.
And it became clear as it went on that it was just talk.
It was just talk.
I mean, I can't blame anybody for looking at the atrocity of Gaza, which is being done with the complete, utter cooperation, not even complicity, the active cooperation of the Biden-Harris administration and saying, I'm not voting for that.
I cannot, you know.
If I did not live in Michigan, if I was not in one of the closest of close swing states, I absolutely would have left that spot blank.
If I lived in California, I would not have voted for Kamala Harris.
I just, I would not have.
And I do not blame people in Michigan, if it's the people, if it's your people, who are being actively dive-bombed or actively being cluster-bombed by Israel with the support of Kamala Harris.
And she won't even allow a Palestinian-American to speak at her convention with a pre-approved speech.
Like, that's just...
I mean, that's just...
That's an insult.
That is shitting all over these people.
Like, it's just...
The way they treated that issue, frankly, they deserve to lose for that.
It's unconscionable.
Yeah.
Sorry, I just wanted to get that off my chest.
That's...
Yeah, no, I'm glad you brought that up.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I know we've talked a lot about Gaza, about this, how awful it is, and it's just like every...
It's in my head like every day, honestly.
It is like I just can't stop thinking about just how bad the Democrats are on this and how Trump is going to be way, way worse.
Trump is absolutely going to be worse.
Absolutely.
Netanyahu...
I personally congratulate...
The first thing you did after Trump was declared the winner is like, I personally congratulate...
I'm a good friend, Donald Trump.
It's just...
There's absolutely no sense in which this is going to be better for the Gazans.
But...
Oh, it's just...
It's so vile.
Okay.
Well, the Israeli government basically announced, you know, officially a project of ethnic cleansing the day after the election.
They basically said, no, we're not going to let people come back to the Gaza who've left.
The government of Qatar is no longer providing resources or sanctions for...
For leaders of Hamas, they're kicking them out of the country, essentially.
I mean, everybody knows the writing is on the wall here.
Like, I mean, you know, like it's...
And of course, the writing is on the wall for Ukraine as well.
Not that I'm in support of Hamas.
That is not the point here.
But, you know, that's the, you know...
Sorry, I just wanted to call that out, you know?
Oh, yes.
Hamas is the main political organization representing the Palestinians because Israel and the West have made it that way.
Alright, this is not the point of this podcast, but it is definitely worth talking about, and things are just going to get worse.
And as you say, Ukraine, they're just going to pull every resource out of Ukraine.
Zelensky is toast.
That's just how it's going to be.
Yep.
Yeah.
And these are the consequences.
These are the consequences.
This is something that I really wanted to get to, to talk about.
So what happens?
What do we think is going to happen?
And the first two things are, of course, like more dead Palestinians, more dead people in Gaza, and more dead Ukrainians.
Those are the first two things, and those are very, very important things that we should not overlook.
I don't know.
Do you have a kind of big picture predictions on this?
Because I have.
I've been thinking about this a lot.
But I wanted to let you go first.
Well, the first thing to say is that Trumpism, like fascism always is, is incredibly internally incoherent.
Fascism as a movement is a coalition of reactionary groups with different interests aligned around sort of vague aspirations and tactical alliances against democracy and against the left and against anything like that.
America is not going to be a fascist country immediately.
Trump isn't going to immediately dissolve its electoral system and stuff like that.
He's going to attack it.
He's going to attack the electoral system, the integrity of the electoral system, everywhere he can, or rather his people are, the people behind him.
Project 2025 Heritage Foundation, that entire coterie of reactionaries, they're going to do this.
They're going to attack the ability of the Democratic Party to fundraise, stuff like this, to stop it mounting electoral challenges.
They're going to go all out to try to destroy electoral democracy in every corner that they can.
And of course, they're going to be trying to restructure the American government so that they do away with the administrative state, they do away with independent civil servants, what we call civil servants.
So that's going to be their path forward.
America isn't going to instantly become like a fascist dictatorship like Nazi Germany, but it is going to be run by a coterie of fascists, an alliance of fascists.
Because that's what these people are.
Heritage Foundation, Project 2025, Elon Musk, J.D. Vance, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., all these people.
Kevin Roberts, is it?
The guy that's the Heritage Foundation guy?
I think that's the guy that killed the dog.
Let's be under no illusions about this.
These people are fascists.
These are 21st century American fascists.
They're going to be in charge of the government.
As people have pointed out, they have a very detailed set of policy plans that amounts to the destruction of representative democracy in America and its replacement with a capitalist society without meaningful democratic structures.
It's like a hyper instrumentation of a process that Other political theorists have called post-democracy or reactionary democracy, which is kind of the hollowing out of democratic countries from within, of their democratic content and their replacement by authoritarian structures with sort of a democratic gloss on top.
This is a process that's already underway in many parts of the world.
It's been underway for a very long time.
It's bound up with neoliberalism.
You were saying before, neoliberalism.
This is the project that they are absolutely going to go No holds barred on trying to very consciously and deliberately and quickly put in place in America.
Now, how much of the individual policy proposals that they're putting to the public...
I mean, if Trump actually tries to implement his stated economic agenda of tariffs and all this sort of stuff, it's going to immediately cause absolute chaos.
Yeah, no.
I am highly skeptical any of that ever gets passed.
I am highly skeptical.
Apparently he's already planning to appoint sort of heavy-duty protectionist guys to the government trade positions or something.
I don't know.
But yeah, if he tries to do it, it's going to create absolute chaos.
It's going to damage Domestic American big capital.
And other people have talked about the conflict between Robert F. Kennedy's radical anti-big pharma agenda and the reality of the huge amount of corporate power and corporate capital bound up with the pharmaceutical industries in the United States.
The Trump government, like reactionary governments always are, is going to be absolutely in the service of big monopoly capital.
So there are contradictions there.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s stated program, his stated wingnut conspiracy theorist crunchy aims, they are in direct conflict with the actual economic basis of Trumpism.
So there are going to be, it's going to be, I mean, it's going to be horrifying, but it's going to be interesting to watch how these contradictions resolve.
I think you're going to see an enormous amount, we saw this last time, but I think probably on steroids this time, you're going to see an enormous amount of internal tension inside this new government.
Oh yeah, no, definitely.
Well, as we kind of saw in 2016, 2017, is that there was resistance from the existing people in charge.
There was sand in the gears of this.
I think that one thing that's different here is that Trump has, despite the fact that he has no actual professionals around him, or very few, he does have The Heritage Foundation and other organizations have put a lot of energy into building a staff that's trying to move in with the Trump agenda on day one.
And so I think he will be much more successful in 2025 than he was in 2017 at getting actual policies put into place.
Also, it's still Donald Trump.
He's bored.
He literally just put executive time in his calendar in the last year, in 2020, and just sat and watched TV all day for most of his days.
He doesn't like being president.
He just likes being the big shot.
One of his main personal priorities, of course, is going to be quashing all the legal cases against him.
Pardoning himself, getting himself out of legal danger.
That's all just gone.
You might not forget about all that.
That's gone.
I mean, arguably the reason he ran again was to make sure all this shit went away.
Yeah, and to keep making money because last time, his last four years, he spent the last time he was in the presidency absolutely ransacking and fleecing the American government and the American people for gargantuan sums of money.
He is, as I've said this before, at his most fundamental level, this guy is a spiv.
He is a crook and a con man and a chiseler.
What he wants to do Is just loot the joint.
Yep.
No, absolutely.
He's going to...
Classic kleptocrat.
Yeah.
It's going to be far and away the most corrupt administration in U.S. history, possibly.
It's going to compete with Latin American dictatorships in terms of just how corrupt this is going to get very, very quickly.
What's going to happen is Donald Trump is going to be off playing golf or watching TV or eating McDonald's, and every fucking ghoul who's ever walked the whole way in American politics is going to be like...
Both putting his hand in the cookie jar and absolutely destroying everything that you and I care about.
That's what the next four years is going to be.
The social agenda is going to be incredibly savagely reactionary.
They're going to go all out attacking trans people, LGBTQ plus people.
You can look at discussions about disenfranchising women.
Yeah.
You can look at gay marriage being a thing of the past.
You can look at...
I mean, they've promised mass deportation from day one.
They are going to...
I mean, the scale of that, just in itself, how much that would cost to do nationally, what they're saying, is staggering.
And then the knock-on effect of that on the American economy, if you actually manage to remove these people, would be staggering.
This is apart from the savagery of the human cruelty and the injustice involved.
their program of ethnic cleansing, because that is what we're talking about, be in no doubt about this, no matter how successful they are or they aren't, the amount of human misery that they're going to cause in the process of trying is beyond decent contemplation.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And there's something that my liberal priors, there's just some, I just know there's some liberal out there to like it.
No, but no, the system is going to stand in its way.
The Supreme Court won't allow, oh no, my friend.
Oh no, my friend.
Donald Trump has already nominated three people to the Supreme Court.
That's already a 6-3 majority.
I would be willing to bet, I would bet my left testicle that Roberts and Alito are going to retire in the next four years.
And Trump will replace those two, who are getting on in years, with...
45-year-old with another Amy Coney Barrett, with another Brett Kavanaugh, with another...
Well, Gorsuch is too far left for these guys now.
He actually has some good opinions on Indian land rights.
That sort of thing.
It's a topic he enjoys.
He's actually not a complete monster on that issue.
They're definitely not going to go on the Gorsuch train.
It's going to be more Kavanaugh's and more Amy Coney Barrett's.
And Sonia Sotomayor is...
I mean, she is diabetic.
She is 69 or 70 years old.
She is...
She may not make it another four years.
It's entirely possible that we get to 2029 and it's a 7-2 ultra-conservative court that will stay that way for 40 years.
Because these people do not have to leave until they die.
And, you know, you put a bunch of rabid reactionary 45-year-olds on the court, they're going to stay there for 40 years.
That's just numbers.
That's absolutely going to happen.
And that's if Trump doesn't decide to expand the court.
Because Biden didn't have the balls to expand the court in the same way that, you know, Democrat administration after Democrat administration has failed to do anything material about the Supreme Court, the filibuster, the Electoral College, the gerrymandering and voter suppression systems.
failed, failed, failed, failed, failed over and over again because they respect American institutions.
These people don't.
They will expand the court and pack it full of fascists.
Yeah, they will.
I don't think they need to, but they will if they have to.
And that's in addition to all the federal level judges that Trump is now going to just like keep filling with 25 year olds who are just gonna, you know.
Again, the American judiciary is going to be a fascist judiciary.
It's already basically there in terms of some of the opinions they've put out in the last year or two.
It's not going to change in our lifetimes.
I am 44 years old.
I do not expect to see a liberal justice be put on that court except to possibly replace Kagan.
I don't, I don't think it's going to happen.
It's just, you know, it doesn't matter.
Um, yeah.
And you know, Oh, but the system is in place though.
Republicans are, are going to win the Senate.
They have the presidency.
They are almost certainly going to win the house and they have the Supreme court.
They have that for at least two years.
They have all four of them for at least two years.
And I've got three of them guaranteed until 2029.
So the system is not, the system is broken.
The system is not going to save you.
And the Democrats are certainly not going to do anything to rock the apple cart in this situation.
The Democrats are not here to save you.
If they were going to save you, Joe Biden would have stepped down in 2020 or 2021.
He would have said, I'm president, but I am not.
He would have stepped away and let the process go forth and we could have found a better candidate.
The Democratic Party is not here to save you.
The Supreme Court has lost for a generation.
It kind of already was, but it is absolutely fucked.
The Supreme Court is fucked for the rest of our lives, for the rest of my life.
In fact, in every bit, you know, the Dobbs decision that overthrew Roe v.
Wade.
You're going to get more of that.
It's definitely, you're definitely going to get more of that.
I think there will be open, you know, you know, bans on like trans people in, certainly in like sports, certainly in like public or students, but I think, you know, more visibly, there's going to be like active anti-trans, you know, there's going to be some court case that gets up there and the conservatives are just going to like crush trans people.
I don't think they'll write an order.
I think it'll be a court case.
I think that's the way these things work now.
Gay marriage?
Certainly.
Worker protections?
They've already basically gutted the NLRB. They're inches away from making it impossible to unionize in this country anymore.
They are inches away from that.
Trump being back in, it's going to be on a silver platter.
There just will not be...
As sclerotic as the unions are in this country now, it's...
2024 is going to look like 1940 in 20 years.
There will not be.
This is not me being a doer.
This is me telling you.
This is the fact of the ground.
Liberals should agree with me on all of this.
This is absolutely going to be the thing.
That is just 100%.
That is what is going to happen.
I should say, divorce.
No fault divorce.
Open discrimination.
Workplaces are going to be able to discriminate again, because conservatives want to be able to discriminate, and they're just going to start overturning all these cases from the Warren Court.
It's all just going to be chipped away at, bit by bit, bit by bit, until it's gone.
That's the future of jurisprudence.
Yeah, it's their dream.
This is the moment that the entire American conservative movement has been working steadily and determinedly towards for all these years.
This is it.
They've got it.
They won.
The title of this episode is Trump Wins, but it's really like the conservative movement, the reactionary movement, these fascists that we've been talking about for five years, that I've been studying for 10, or longer than that, but actively studying for 10, and these people won.
This is, this is a victory for them.
Matt Walsh, he, he, he had a tweet.
I could pull it up.
I could, I could read it to you.
I screenshotted it, but he had a tweet that sums it to the effect that like, oh yeah, we were always talking about how project 2025 wasn't really the agenda.
That wasn't what we were going for.
But now I've got to tell you, yes, it was the agenda.
This is what we're doing, which is exactly what you and I were telling people for the last like couple of years.
It's like, these people are serious.
These people are serious.
They don't say this because they're joking.
They say it because they mean it.
That's how this works.
That's what's happening right now.
I think, I mean, obviously the court cases are all going to go away.
I mean, they're already done.
I've seen a legal eagle put out a video, maybe this lasts for another few months, but really, these legal cases are done.
Donald Trump will never see the inside of a prison cell.
He may pardon himself.
He may not have to.
I don't think he's going to have to.
He just halts the federal prosecution and by the laws of the courts, they can't retry.
They can't start again in four years when he leaves office, if he leaves office.
And even if a court case comes up where it says they have to try it, the Supreme Court is just going to smack it down.
They're not going to let Donald Trump be.
It's just not a thing.
That's done.
That's done.
Sorry, I'm just now getting to really elucidate in all these thoughts that I've been having for the last three days about how seriously the opening line of Neo Reaction to Basilisk is, let us assume that we are fucked.
And, like, I think Al Sandefur retweeted that, you know, the other day.
And, like, that's exactly how I feel, is, like, let us assume that we are fucked.
Like, we are well and truly sincerely fucked.
There is no getting around that fact at this point.
Okay, so having said that, what do we do next?
Well, I mean, I cannot tell people what to do, because you go better in your life where your energies are best spent.
And that's just true.
I think that if you're in a place where you can do mutual aid, I think mutual aid, supporting each other is going to be an essential thing, both financially and spiritually, emotionally, however you want to think of it.
Mutual aid is going to just have to be a thing.
Look after your neighbors.
Get better neighbors if you can.
Move to places where you're surrounded by right-thinking people who are going to have your back if you're in the position to do so.
That's just the first thing that obviously has to be done.
Support your local journalist.
I promise you there's a local journalist in your area who is doing his or her best, or their best, they may be non-binary, to do the right thing and report these stories.
And the environment is going to get more and more hostile towards people who are documenting this in any way, whether they be amateurs like me or whether they be professionals.
So supporting that kind of work is going to be dreadfully important.
I don't think that donating to the Democratic Party is going to do very much for us, but you will see what's going on in four years or in two years.
And, you know, the big kind of named doors like the ACLU or SPLC and all that sort of thing.
I mean, if you feel like you have some money or time to donate, then, you know, you should do that.
But I think that the big thing is we have to build what we can from what we have.
And this is not the end of my life.
And for many people, many people will die in the next four years who should not have, who would not have had Kamala Harris been elected.
Whether it's from lack of abortion access, whether it's from lack of healthcare, whether it's from lack of hormone replacement therapy, whether it's just from street violence that wouldn't have existed previously.
We've got to support each other.
And that's going to mean something different for everybody.
And I think I want to close or kind of get to our closing remarks here and talk a little bit about myself and why I haven't been here more.
And apologize to the listeners.
I've been having a lot of physical and mental health issues over the last couple of years, and particularly in the last year.
I didn't want to talk about this in public until it was kind of official, but I've been going through a divorce.
I work a shitty part-time job in addition to this podcast that I cannot afford to live on.
So...
My personal life has been spent finding a new place to live and finding a new job that will allow me to afford that new place to live.
Those plus the other mental and physical health tools have taken a lot from my ability to produce content.
I try to come in here and be happy and be happy to do this.
It is a passion for me.
And I do really enjoy.
I love spending an hour every week or two with Jack on the mic here.
And it's always a fun time.
And I try to bring the best energy I can.
But it's not always easy.
I think the thing that I really ran into in the day after the Trump victory, after the announcement, was it means that my life is just going to completely reset now.
I'm losing everything in my life, effectively.
And now I'm losing everything politically that I cared about for the rest of my life.
I listen to Nazi podcasts at least three or four hours a day.
And that's every seven days a week.
And I have four since 2016.
So like eight years now.
Eight and a half years.
I don't know how much continuing to listen to The Daily Show a couple of times a week...
I don't know if I need to put my energies elsewhere.
I've been wanting to try to write as opposed to podcasts.
It's something that like writing a blog or writing a newsletter might be something that I'm trying to do.
I honestly don't know what...
The best use of my time and energy is at this point.
And I want to continue to be public.
I want to continue to be out there.
I want to be available to people.
But this is...
I don't want to say a wake-up call because we always knew this was possible.
But for the victory to be this substantial, for it to be this...
It means that things are worse than even I thought they were.
I kind of went into election night thinking, it's going to be a squeaker, but Harris is going to win.
I really was not emotionally prepared for how things went.
And it is a reset for me.
It's a reset for my life.
And I know that I want Jack with me.
Jack is my best friend.
I want Jack to be with me in whatever.
And I'm not saying I'm quitting the podcast.
I'm not quitting the podcast.
But I think for the short term, I think what we want to do is do it more often.
Is to get back to numbered episodes and I'll make...
I want to make myself prep episodes again and not just sort of do the movie episodes and the news briefs.
I want to get back to doing the full episodes and talk more seriously about some of this.
And I've definitely been, since in the last few days, I've been on Twitter again more.
I kind of let myself get off Twitter because I was just tired of the news.
I was tired of Twitter.
And I can't do that anymore.
So this is me kind of saying, I'm refocusing my efforts.
This is me saying, it's time to get my personal shit together and come back out there and do what I can in this space.
And whether that means finding other spaces to do this as well, I don't know.
But that's what I have to say about all of this.
It's funny.
It's not hard because Trump won.
I prepared for that.
That's a thing.
It's what it means.
It's that, no, we really are fucked.
We were fucked under neoliberalism anyway, but now we're turbo-fucked.
It's a lot to accept that it's not just dipshits online that I can laugh at.
It's everywhere now.
And I knew it was everywhere.
I've long known it was everywhere.
But I guess what I'm saying is, I increasingly believe that I've got to do more.
And I don't know what shape that takes, but I've got to do more.
I think what we need to do will become apparent to us as we go on.
The thing is to keep going.
I'm very much not the sort of person for...
You know, inspirational, optimistic pep talks or anything like that.
I think the worst thing anybody could possibly do would be to downplay the seriousness of the defeat that has been suffered here.
I will say they've won.
Yeah.
They've won before.
They won in Charleston 1861.
They won early in 1933.
They did.
And then they lost.
And it was years later, and it was after struggle and death and horror.
But they did lose.
Yeah.
And the other thing that I will say is that every freedom, every bit of advance that we have now, Still, just.
We didn't, as a species, I suppose I mean, we didn't used to have it.
It's not something we've always had.
This, I think, is one of the problems.
Democracy, to the extent that we live in democracies, they do have this tendency to make people complacent or allow people to become complacent.
People who have a certain amount of freedom and Some of them are going to just take it for granted.
The fact is all the freedoms, the fact that we have unions at all, the fact that we have healthcare at all, the fact that we have the vote, the fact that women have the vote, the fact that gay people currently anyway and trans people are allowed legally to exist without being stoned to death, the fact that black people aren't owned and bought and sold as farm machinery anymore.
None of that just happened.
It came about because people fought for it and took it by force.
They shouldn't have had to, but they did.
And a whole lot of them died in the process.
Yeah.
A whole lot of them died in the process.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's the best I got, listeners.
We're being maudlin here, but it's funny that this is hopeful for me.
I spend my life stewing in this stuff.
I've spent hours a day every day for years.
I'm stewing in this awful, awful material.
When I'm not making podcasts, I'm following this stuff.
It just inundates me.
It's just a part of everything that I do.
And it's affected every aspect of my life.
Arguably, part of the reason I'm getting divorced is because of this work.
Part of the reason I lost my job in 2021 is because of this work.
Because I wasn't putting my effort into other parts of my life.
I dedicate myself to this, and I walk around with a very negative view towards a lot of people, and I go around my life with knowing just how bad these people are, knowing just how bad things can get.
But I keep doing the work because I believe that things can be better, and I believe that things should be better, and I believe that if we work, if we do the things that we need to do, They will be better.
And we all have to put in our little bit, just a little bit at a time to make things better for ourselves.
It's going to be one day by day, inch by inch, living a decent life, living a life you can be proud of, living a life in which you support your comrades, living a life in which you can reach the end of it knowing you did your best and you're surrounded by the people you care about.
That is the best any of us can be offered in this world.
And so the only way to do that is you just gotta fight a little bit every day.
And don't despair.
Don't let the despair get you.
Because I promise you Donald Trump isn't worth that.
I promise you none of these fucksticks, none of these evil perverts at the top of our societies are worth you feeling that way.
We are gonna win in the end.
It's just going to take a little time, and it's going to take a little more time than we thought.
But it was always going to be that way.
There's no shortcut to this.
We're trying to change the world here.
One day at a time, one person at a time, one kind act at a time.
That's what it is.
That's all I can tell you.
That's all I can do.
So you just keep doing it until you can't anymore.
I'm sorry, that might have been a little bit too maudlin, but that's my heart.
That's how I feel about it.
I don't have the big picture answers.
I'm just saying, you just gotta keep it up.
You gotta keep fighting, and you can't give in to the despair.
Yeah.
You know, if people who are in a lot more danger than me don't get to give up, then I certainly don't.
Right.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Well, I think that's it.
So I'm hoping that nobody came here looking for, you know, a big uplift.
But I don't know.
If they did, then they're probably a first-time listener.
I can't imagine.
You know, I tune into IDSG every week for the laughs.
That's not something anyone has ever said.
Okay, well, keep tuning in.
Keep tuning in.
Because we will keep giving you stuff to tune into.
We'll keep coming back.
I know we've got another bonus movie.
We're going to do more movies about the presidency.
I think we've got a few more of those we're going to do.
And I'm planning a return to full episodes again.
So I think you'll see, like, maybe a news brief or two, but, like, I'm...
The plan is to get back to it and do, like, kind of a mix of, you know, kind of older school material, like looking at some of the Nazi stuff that's happened over the last couple of years, and looking at some of the, like, the Jack Posobiec and the Charlie Kirks and stuff and see kind of what they're up to and do something more like that, like, alternate them so that it's both kind of classic IDSG and...
something that's more like a 2024idsg or 2025idsg i don't know what that looks like yet but i'm back we're coming back that's just it has to be yeah well thank you so much jack for doing this with me and thank you so much for being my being my being my comrade to be my friend and thank you to every audience member whoever did even that little bit to help out who listened Thank you so much for continuing to fight and continuing to care.
Because they don't win until we don't care anymore.
So that's how it has to go.
Fuck em.
Fuck em!
That's a great way to land.
I forgot to tell you, but I clipped a little bit from that SNL Kamala thing, which I think I want you to use as the cold open.
It's when Maya Rudolph and Kamala Harris are in the mirror to each other, you know?
You don't think that's rubbing salt into the wound a little bit?
I think it works, honestly.
You can leave it out if you want to, but I think that's a perfect...
Man, I saw that.
I saw that.
And it was such the definition, the Merriam-Webster definition of cringe.
And I'm like, I can't believe this woman is going to win this election having done this.
And then she...
And it's like, oh my god.
That's so much worse.
It's so much worse.
You shared it on WhatsApp and I watched it and my reaction was, oh fuck, she's gonna lose!
I talked myself back out of it, but no.
Oh, no.
You were absolutely correct.
I was right.
Like, yeah, no.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
All right.
These fucking people.
Jesus Christ.
You should definitely include this little bit of us talking about the common thing.
