Let all persons having any manner of business before this venerable podcast gather ye forth and giveth your attention! Closing in on the end of 2021 and their hundredth episode, Daniel and Jack talk about the Sines vs. Kessler trial (the civil trial of the Unite the Right organisers etc), the way in which the far-right (including the defendants) have conceptualised it, the long-awaited aftermath in the wake of the verdict (which dropped just before Thanksgiving), and the reactions and attitudes to the whole thing among the far-right, including lots of inexplicably buoyant Cantwell lunacy. * Content Warnings. Podcast Notes: Please consider donating to help us make the show and stay independent. Patrons get exclusive access to one full extra episode a month. Daniel's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/danielharper Jack's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4196618 IDSG Twitter: https://twitter.com/idsgpod Daniel's Twitter: @danieleharper Jack's Twitter: @_Jack_Graham_ IDSG on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-speak-german/id1449848509?ls=1 * Show Notes: Cold Open -- Lose to the Crying Nazi Sines v. Kessler docket Unicorn Riot, Unite The Right On Trial in Charlottesville Former Identity Evropa Organizer Tells Secrets In Trial Deposition Bottom of the Barrel: Charlottesville Trial Defense Attorneys Spread Antisemitism Joshua Smith, one of the attorneys, is representing Matthew Heimbach, Matthew Parrott, and the Traditionalist Worker Party, a neo-nazi group that helped put on Unite the Right in 2017. Calling in remotely to cross-examine a witness on November 11, Smith went on a meandering digression about so-called ‘ethnostates’. He claimed that expert witness and sociologist, Peter Simi, was ‘anti-white’ because he wouldn’t address Smith’s view that China and Singapore are ‘ethnostates’, and falsely said that white people are responsible for most advances in civilization and technology. When trying to confuse jurors about sociological concepts like in-groups and out-groups, Smith asked Simi if Hillary Clinton was white supremacist, and soon after he told Judge Norman Moon that cross-examinations can be “conversations” with witnesses, before sheepishly admitting his scattered tangents were “trying to keep it lively for everybody.” Another attorney in the Charlottesville lawsuit trial, Cincinnati-based, James E. Kolenich, is an antisemitic far-right Catholic. Kolenich told the Cincinnati Enquirer in 2018 that his motives in this case were simple: “My willingness to get involved is to oppose Jewish influence in society.” He questioned the accuracy of long-accepted scholarship about the death toll of the Holocaust: “You can’t call the Jew Holocaust into question, right? […] Christians really shouldn’t fall for that. The Holocaust is the execution, the crucifixion of Christ. The most important event in human history is His Resurrection, not, this Jewish Holocaust even if it did happen.” Kolenich is part of a Catholic splinter tendency that rejects 20th century reforms barring antisemitic theology, telling the Cincannati Enquirer, “The last such council [to modify the Catholic faith] was Vatican II or as we call it, Vatican Jew.” He believes all popes since Vatican II are illegitimate “anti-popes.” Bryan J. Jones, LLC From Unicorn Riot Day 16 Rush Transcript Spencer: I want to refer you now to the “rant from hell”…it was characterized by Ms. Dunn as a speech… do you remember the context of that rant?… tell us a little about the context… Kessler: the only thing I recall before that… Spencer: where was it, who was there Kessler: Somewhere in the countryside… in an afterparty, at a house, we went in a room to discuss, people were panicking after the car attack Spencer: how many people were there? Kessler: 10 or less Spencer: would you characterize that as a speech…? Kessler: I think ‘rant’ is applicable Spencer: it was a private conversation is a private room… how did that outburst reach the light of day? Kessler: someone recorded it and released it to Milo Yiannopoulos Spencer: did you record it? Kessler: no Spencer: who recorded it…does Dave Reilly ring a bell? Kessler: yeah, thats the guy Spencer: is Milo…is he a fan of Richard Spencer…? Kessler: it was meant to embarrass you, I think… Spencer: when that was released… in the fall of 2019…does that sound right? Kessler: i don’t recall Spencer: in the tweet where you say “Richard Spencer is a sociopathic narcissist”… when did you determine I was a sociopathic narcissist? Kessler: …I remember the first time I met you, you just made my skin crawl… you were slimy, you seemed inhuman, like a robot or a serial killer… Jonathan M. Katz, Auf weidersehen, alt-right C-ville Writers, Payback Time Neil Kumar at VDARE, Sines V. Kessler: The First Amendment No Longer Applies to Whites Macy Moors CBS19. Heather Heyer's Mom Reacts to Partial Verdict Idavox, Charlottesville After Sines v. Kessler: Victory Means KEEP THE PRESSURE ON Molly's Trial Coverage Day One Jury Selection Day Two Jury Selection Day Three Jury Selection Day Four Opening Arguments Day Five Plaintiff's first two witnesses Emily Gorcenski and Molly Conger. White Supremacists Have Returned to Charlottesville in Another Attempt to ‘Unite the Right’ Christopher Cantwell opening statement Molly Day Six Trial Coverage Devin cross-examination Molly Day Seven Trial Coverage Molly Day Eight Trial Coverage Heimbach, Lipstadt, Kline video deposition Molly Day Nine Trial Coverage Kline video deposition continued, Spencer testifies, cross by Cantwell. Molly Day Ten Trial Coverage Cantwell cross of Spencer continued, Ike Baker deposition from LoS, Michael Hill of LoS, Thomas Baker (plaintiff) testimony Molly Day Eleven Trial Coverage Dillon Hopper deposition, Michael Tubbs, Plaintiff Marissa Blair, Nazi cheering session, Cantwell cross of Blair, More Tubbs, Deposition testimony of Thomas Rousseau, deposition testimony from Vasillos Pistolis. Molly Day Twelve Trial Coverage Plaintiff Chelsea Alvarado, Matt Parrot, Cantwell and Parrot teaching Nazi humor to the jury, Parrot rebuttal by defense attorneys. Molly Day Thirteen Trial Coverage Plaintiff Marcus Martin, Plaintiff Seth Wispelwey, defendant Nathan Damigo, Michael Chesny deposition. Molly Day Fourteen Trial Coverage Molly Day Fifteen Trial Coverage Molly Day Sixteen Trial Coverage Possible broken thread, coverage begins here. Schoep rebuttal continued, Kessler testimony, Spencer cross of Kessler, Cantwell cross of Kessler. Cantwell called. Spencer cross of Cantwell. Molly Day Seventeen Trial Coverage Cantwell cross continued, Cantwell crosses himself, Daley video deposition, Brad Griffen video deposition, Cantwell Conspiracy Theories, Plaintiffs rest, Rule 50s proposed, Rule 50s denied, Spencer defense, Bloch impeachment of Spencer, Campbell for Fields rests, Kolenich on behalf of Kessler, Damigo, IE, rests, Cantwell defense, Bloch cross of Cantwell (again), flurry of pre-5pm activity. Molly Day Eighteen Trial Coverage. Molly Day Nineteen Trial Coverage Closing arguments Molly Day Twenty Trial Coverage Basically nothing, jury deliberations. Molly Day Twenty-One Trial Coverage More jury deliberations. Molly Day Twenty-Two Trial Coverage Verdict
The stuff I've been through with the media, right, you know, okay, you want to, you know, pull up, you know, embarrassing things that I'm not particularly proud of, that's fine.
We can do that.
And if you want to, if you want to waste the jury's time with that, then you can take the jury off.
And at the end of this thing, you will, my favorite joke of the entire process is one of the plaintiff's lawyers, a guy by the name of Michael Block, There's been like my primary point of contact on the other side whenever I need to relay a message.
Right before we got started with jury selection, I said, Hey Mike, come here.
And I said, Are you ready to lose to the Karate Nazi?
I've just, like, I put that idea in his head and he kind of, like, had a really uncomfortable chuckle as he walked away.
Good, good.
I want to put that idea in his head that, like, you're going to lose to me.
How do you feel about that, you know?
Mmm, getting this over.
You know they're neurotic, yep, yep, yep, yep.
You know that that's going to eat at him, like, he's not going to get over that for the duration of his career, right?
He's never going to be like, I lost to the crying Nazi.
This is I Don't Speak German.
I'm Jack Graham, he/him, and in this podcast I talk to my friend Daniel Harper, also he/him, and in this podcast I talk to my friend Daniel Harper, also he/him, who spent years tracking the far right in In this show we talk about them, and about the wider reactionary forces feeding them and feeding off them.
Be warned, this is difficult subject matter.
Content warnings always apply.
Right, and yes, your occasional parasocial fix of me and Daniel is back.
If you're anything like me, you need these parasocial relationships that you have with podcasters to make you feel better while you're not doing what you normally do, which is just sitting alone, hunched over, sobbing.
Because, you know...
We live in the era that we live in.
I'm joking.
It is the current year and we are all just working our way through serious depressive episodes one after another.
Yeah, serious depressive episodes.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was trying to try to come up with something that would sum up the current moment, you know, and my notebook just reads.
So, yeah, I think I think I might have done that before.
It sums up a lot of moments recently.
Yeah, but since it's your notebook, I imagine it's like surrounded with like a little heart, you know, you've drawn little hearts around it.
Oh yeah, yeah.
And flowers and bunny rabbits, yeah.
Because I'm essentially an optimist.
Surprise anybody that knows me!
You know, it actually is funny.
I think you and I both have this kind of attitude of both being, like, severely depressed, like, doomer mentality of, like, the world is fucking ending all the time, but also this, like, dent of optimism of, like, things have been bad, things are going to continue to be bad, but people are basically good and we're gonna make it through this somehow, one way or another.
I don't know if that describes your attitude, but I feel that's me a lot of days, you know?
I just, I'm in this weird position where, you know, I don't see hope, but at the same time I find hopelessness completely unconvincing.
So, might as well have it, you know?
Feels like a bonus episode, so maybe we should move off of this and, you know, do the thing.
Yeah, so this is episode 99.
99, yeah.
Yes, we're going to edge for a while before we get to the big one.
It's episode 99 and it is, a bit belatedly, but we've both had a lot of plates lately, it is the Signs v Kessler verdict episode.
Finally.
Yes, yes.
The Science Fee Kessler will cover it.
We won't cover it in like a lot of, you know, kind of the intricate detail, but we'll go over and kind of discuss the whole thing and the verdict and sort of the reactions to the verdict in the far-right community and kind of what it bodes for the future, I guess is sort of where we want to go with this.
And Sounds good.
Yeah, that's what we're doing.
Before we do that, do you want to talk a little bit about some of the things that you specifically have had on your plate lately?
Sure.
Well, again, we were going to record this.
This is three weeks late, basically.
We were going to record this even before the The verdict was announced just kind of after closing arguments, and I'm glad we did miss that.
But I got sick, just kind of mildly sick, not too aggressively sick, but I got a little sick and missed our recording schedule.
And then the next weekend, Omicron sort of popped up in the news and I immediately went, well, I need to go get my fucking booster.
And that, I did the booster and the flu shot at the same time.
And let me just say, if you had a response to any of your shots previously, probably best to space those out.
I wish I had done so.
I mean, I'm glad I got it over with, but boy, I was out for like, I was completely out for two days and mostly out for four.
And then I lost my job.
I lost my day job.
Not for anything related to the podcast, but, you know, I'm not going to talk about the details, obviously, but this is now my sole source of income and I am the primary breadwinner in this household.
So if you ever were listening to this and thought, maybe let's throw Daniel a dollar to a month, that would be very helpful.
I did kind of announce this on Twitter and a lot of people sent me messages of support and people do want to help out.
And when I did see a couple of people kind of raise from like $1 to $3 or $1 to $5 and I try not to pay too much attention to, you know, whether it goes up or down, or I try to just kind of keep doing the work and everything, but I do appreciate anything you can give, um, you know, say something when, uh, you can work at a place for years and get fired three weeks before Christmas.
Um, and basically get like, we can give you your leftover vacation.
Gee, if you'd let it till January, I would have gotten all that extra vacation too.
Wouldn't have been, you know, could have saved the three weeks, but I'm not bitter.
We're hoping this is going to be a positive thing, but just hopefully we can put out some extra content.
At least I can put out some extra content because this is now my day job, so hopefully things will be looking up in the future.
Anyway, so we'll see what that means.
I don't want to go over and over this, but it is worth just kind of mentioning up top that that's the big thing going on in my life right now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And staring down the throat of Omicron, I want to emphasize how grateful I am for any and all contributions as well.
So, you know, maybe at the moment, if you feel like contributing to one of us, you should probably go to Daniel.
But yeah, just one little stop off before we get to the main subject of the episode, and it's going to be very brief.
I just wonder, we had a little bit of feedback on Twitter at the IDSG account.
Somebody was listening, I'm not going to mention the account, but somebody was listening to one of our episodes on James Lindsay and the grievance studies hoax, the so-called grievance studies hoax.
And they I did look for it actually before we started recording and I couldn't find it.
So I don't know if it's been deleted or if it was appended to a tweet other than the one I looked for or whatever, but I couldn't find it.
But what they said basically was I'm listening to this.
And I can't help but notice that you're bending over backwards to avoid mentioning the fact that what James Lindsay and the hoax was trying to point out was that, you know, people who weren't qualified managed to get fake papers published in peer-reviewed magazines.
Periodicals or whatever you say.
Journals.
Journals.
That was the word.
That's the word.
Yeah.
Words.
And I didn't respond to it on Twitter, but I wanted to mention it here because we do.
We do talk about that.
That was actually the entire point.
The entire point of the episode.
Yeah.
And let me just run over it again.
We did address it.
They were coached in how to get their stuff published.
We went over at length about how the peer review process involved them getting notes back on how to change it in order to get it published.
They published some essays that were not immediately obviously fake, you know, not as obviously ridiculous as they seemed to claim and assume that they were.
One of them was actually A good essay, as was pointed out by us and by Sam Holybrill, which only seems ridiculous if you're James Lindsay and you share his assumptions.
And they made shit up.
And it's easy to fool the peer review process, which isn't designed to spot outright fakery, if you just make up data.
So it is the person telling us that we were avoiding the point that is actually missing the point.
Right, because we covered all of that in the in the original episode.
Exactly.
They had listened on if they had actually listened to it and wanted to respond in good faith.
I mean, you know, we could say you didn't cover it in enough detail, although I don't know how much more we didn't go through every single paper, obviously.
But yeah, I know it was it was very well covered.
And I don't know, I get that kind of response and I don't even bother with it.
I'm just like, yeah, well, clearly you don't didn't bother to listen or you're just trying to waste my time.
So.
Yeah.
So that's that's how I feel about that.
Yeah.
They've actually succeeded in wasting some of our time and yours, too, listeners, because I could have just left it alone.
But I I couldn't.
I had to mention that we get we get a lot of that kind of bullshit.
I mean, you know, particularly in the Nazis will kind of come at you or come at me.
I don't know what they do to you, but they will come at me.
And yeah, they come at me.
I get all the benefits and none of the drawbacks because they don't give a shit about me.
It's great.
They come at me and are like, you know, well, what do you, why do you think that Eric Stryker is a Nazi?
Right.
You know, like big caps, you know, like the, you know, all, all, you know, this kind of like trolling, you know, like now you need to explain to me exactly why, you know, that he wasn't just joking all those times, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
The IDW crowd tends to come with, you know, like, I just don't understand.
You need to, like, find, there's nuance that you're missing in all of these conversations.
And it's like, fuck you and your nuance sometimes.
Like, seriously, you know, like, James Lindsay is a liar and a fraud.
And if you want to, like, play some nuance game with James Lindsay, like, And Brent Weinstein, very nearly that as well these days.
He's only gotten worse, you know, maybe if you want to go back to like 2018 and talk about, you know, some, there's some nuance there somewhere, you know, whatever.
But like, we tend to focus on stuff where things are very, you know, easy to prove.
And I include as much detail as I can to establish the fact of what I'm actually saying out loud.
So, yeah.
Anyway, that's the kind of that's the kind of correspondence we typically get.
You know, when it's when this is kind of like a negative, you know, it just feels like a waste of my time to respond to most of it, honestly.
So it's a total waste of time, but I just had to do it.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, and now on to that Andrew Yang tweet with the thing about that.
No.
That's where this podcast is going.
We're just going to talk about Twitter beefs.
We're just going to litigate Twitter bullshit.
It's Twitter bullshit, the podcast.
Ironically, probably would do better in terms of numbers in this podcast.
If we just did a live stream three times a week and just went through whatever Twitter drama there was at any given time, my God.
Hey, look, if you want to pay me for that, I'll do it.
Don't tempt me, Frodo.
Anyway, yes.
On to the actual subject of the episode, which, as I say, is finally the end of Sines v Kessler.
Daniel, go for it.
So yeah, Science v. Kessler is over.
Got kind of a weird mixed verdict.
I figured we might as well just kind of start off and just kind of give the overall summary of what Science v. Kessler was, just for anybody who wasn't listening.
This is the civil lawsuit relating to the events of August 11th and August 12th, 2017.
We sort of covered a bit of this in the Catching Up with Cantwell episode a few episodes back, if you want to go back and look at that.
It's funny, I got some messages from people asking, hey, are you going to do anything with Science V Kessler?
What are you going to do?
It wasn't even that, it was, what are you going to do with Science V Kessler?
And I'm kind of like, I don't know, it feels like the thing has been like building for four years because, you know, It was originally filed in late 2017, and then it just churned and churned along, and defendants weren't turning in their discovery on time, and then that just churned and churned, and then it was originally going to go to trial in 2020, and then COVID happened.
And just shut everything down.
And then they finally went in in late October of 2021 to actually run this trial.
And so it felt this very, I don't know, it just, you know, it had been this sort of like rumbling thing in the back of my mind for so long that I didn't even think of it as like an event that I was going to have to cover.
But thankfully, Molly did not feel that way.
And the good people at Unicorn Riot did not feel that way.
They both produced a number of tweets.
You know, they were live tweeting the whole thing and produced some kind of live transcript articles.
I've linked all that in the show notes, so you can go and kind of check it out.
And I was kind of monitoring these tweets sort of in real time as I could on my lunch breaks and such.
So, yeah, I feel like I followed the trial, even though I was not able to listen to very much of it.
Um, but yeah, no, this is the civil trial relating to the events of Unite the Right.
It had a whole bunch of defendants.
It's something like 20 names of defendants.
Although some people got dropped from it early on.
We're going to talk about that here second.
And notably, two of the defendants, Christopher Cantwell and Richard Spencer, ended up defending themselves, per se, because they could not afford lawyers.
And in civil court, you're not given a... there's no public defender in civil litigation, which, you know, is a thing.
Well, I'm interested in the mixed verdict, because it was found for the plaintiffs in most respects, but there were two federal charges that the jury didn't actually come to a decision on those.
Is that correct?
Yes.
So, I'm not a lawyer.
I'm going by what I learned over the course of the last few weeks, just kind of furiously Googling and reading other people's Twitter feeds.
And I have not found, I went looking to see if there was a lawyer, you know, someone with actual knowledge on this who had really kind of written this up in some concrete way, but I haven't seen, I think there, I don't think anybody has like actually kind of like Thought about this in public, who has the kind of education that I would like them to have, who is not also deeply invested in the case.
So there were six indictments of these plaintiffs, and the plaintiffs were by and large people who were actually injured either at the Torchlit March on August 11th or in the car attack on August 12th.
Although a couple of the defendants were people who were not physically harmed, but suffered, you know, kind of mental anguish and PTSD, etc.
Um, but, um, uh, the six counts were, I mean, the, the fifth and sixth counts were completely against, uh, James Alex Fields.
He's the, uh, the man who committed the car attack.
And, uh, this is like civil liability for like damages that, that just relating to the car attack itself.
And didn't involve any of the other defendants, from what I understand.
James Alex Fields has been ordered to pay the plaintiffs $12 million, $6 million on each count.
And that is almost half of the $26.2 million that everyone was given to pay, kind of overall.
The third and fourth counts are state-level civil liability charges.
All right, so Claim 3.
Sorry, there's a bit of delay there because I had to pull up the jury form here.
Claim 3 is a preponderance of the evidence, each element of the Virginia state law civil conspiracy claim.
So the basic claim here was that the organizers of Unite the Right engaged in a civil conspiracy.
Um, to commit violence and to, uh, deprive, uh, people in the, in the city of Charlottesville are, you know, kind of counter protesters, uh, of their, um, civil rights of their, of their, um, you know, kind of, uh, right to, you know, other civil rights.
Um, and so, um, the right to go about their business without there being all over the place.
Exactly, exactly.
And so the third claim is just, did they prove the civil conspiracy?
And then the fourth claim is about racial, religious or ethnic harassment or violence.
The defendants were all found guilty on claims three and four, pretty obviously.
I mean, the The plaintiffs distributed a ton of evidence in favor of this.
It was really, really overwhelming.
And we can talk about kind of the nature of some of that evidence as we get to it.
What they didn't find is the federal claims, which the thing is that like, The client counts one and two were the Ku Klux Klan Act, what they call the Ku Klux Klan Act, which is, I believe, section 1985 of the federal code, which is essentially the same conspiracy claim to commit racial violence, but on the federal level.
And the jury could not find Can I come to a consensus on that claim or claim to which was did any of the people didn't need the defendants failed to fail to act to stop the conspiracy once it had begun.
And so it's weird that they found guilty on counts three and four, but not on counts one and two.
The people who have kind of commented on this basically kind of go, you know, people with experience in trial law basically kind of go, juries are weird.
They do weird things all the time.
This is not unexpected.
I strongly suspect that because this, you know, the deliberations were going right up to the Thanksgiving holiday here in the U.S.
that there might've been some horse trading that went on.
Behind the scenes.
To my knowledge, no juror has come out.
They are not required to be quiet.
They can talk about it if they want to, but they're not required to.
And their identities have obviously been kept secret.
So nobody knows.
Nobody knows really anything.
Nobody knows any of their identities.
And I would not hesitate to tell people not to and not to try to look them up.
It's probably best that we do not know their identities.
Not that I think anyone on this listening to my voice would do so.
But yeah, so that's kind of the nature of the claim.
So they did not find anyone guilty or anyone liable on counts one and two, but they did find on counts three and four.
And then there's, you know, $25 million, $26.2 million worth of total damages, something like that.
And this is spread between actual compensatory damages, which are, you know, actual like medical bills that some of these people have to pay and in kind of lifetime loss of income, et cetera.
I mean, some of these injuries, I mean, you know, if you look at the trial testimony, I mean, some of these injuries are like literally like skulls beaten in sort of, I mean, just horrifying, horrifying injuries.
Yeah.
You know, there's a whole lot of that kind of stuff that went on with this stuff.
But yeah, mixed verdict.
And of course, when you get this kind of like civil case with what's always going to be a mixed verdict, what happens?
Everybody declares victory.
So the plaintiffs look at, I mean, the law firm that's running this, you know, it's put out a bunch of press releases of, you know, $26 million, you know, we were very happy that the jury found, you know, held liable these defendants, etc, etc.
And the Nazis are like, well, they didn't found us guilty on the big charges they wanted to find us guilty for.
And also, like, none of us have any money.
So there's no way you're going to get, you know, that kind of cash out of us.
So, yeah, everybody's declaring victory at this point, which everybody's happy, everybody's happy, which was always, always going to be the way, unfortunately.
So, So, that's kind of the end point of all of this is, you know, they spent four years in civil litigation, they spent four weeks at trial, and everybody's happy, or nobody's happy.
So, if the plaintiffs got, you know, Emotional closure from this, if the people who are actually injured got got got closure from it and if you know kind of the people show us feel feel better about this and that makes me feel better, you know, obviously, I know that Susan bro who is a Heather hires mom has spoken and said that, you know, she was very happy to see that.
You know, that the trial ended the way it did, that they did not get off scot-free and, you know, encouraged, you know, because there is every possibility that they can refile this lawsuit and go back on counts one and two.
So who knows?
This will be tied up in more civil litigation for years, most likely, because now the big thing is that everyone has to try to argue down their civil liability.
So, yeah, this is definitely this is not over by any stretch of the imagination.
It's kind of where we land on that.
Yeah, no, it'll never be over.
Ever be over.
It is worth kind of highlighting that there's a variety of lawyers who are here for.
So the plaintiff's attorneys are run through this kind of nonprofit organization, Integrity First for America.
And this is kind of Roberta Kaplan and et al, who are now Roberta Kaplan is someone who has A long history in American jurisprudence, among her other achievements.
She successfully argued the gay marriage case in front of the Supreme Court.
So, great for her.
She also defended Andrew Cuomo and Harvey Weinstein against B2 allegations.
Less good for her.
Less good.
Less good.
Don't worry, we're going to get into some of that here shortly, because guess what the Nazis, guess how the Nazis respond to this?
But the defense attorneys, you know, wide variety here.
So you have, I've got a link, I'm not going to read a whole bunch of this because we're already kind of running a little bit, we're not running long, but we've got to kind of get to a lot of stuff today.
But I did link to a couple of pieces from Unicorn Riot to describe some of the, a couple of the attorneys.
One from Josh Smith is representing Matt Heimbach, Matthew Parrott and the Judicialist Workers Party.
He is an open Holocaust denier.
It says, when trying to confuse jurors about sociological concepts like in-groups and out-groups, Smith asked Simmey, who was the plaintiff's expert witness as to how neo-Nazi groups worked on the internet, if Hillary Clinton was white supremacist.
And soon after, he told George Norman Moon that cross-examinations can be conversations with witnesses before sheepishly admitting his scattered tangents were trying to keep it lively for everybody.
So, you know, Nazi lawyer just trying to keep it lively.
I'll consider it.
James Kolenich, another one of the attorneys, he is an anti-Semitic far-right Catholic.
His motives in the case were simple.
My willingness to get involved is to oppose Jewish influence in society.
He questioned the accuracy of long-incepted scholarship about the death toll of the Holocaust.
You can't call the Jew Holocaust into question, right?
Christians really shouldn't fall for that.
The Holocaust is the execution, the crucifixion of Christ.
The most important event in human history is his resurrection, not this Jewish Holocaust, even if it did happen.
So, yeah.
Okay.
Contrasted with these two overt Nazis.
I mean, just overt Nazis, right?
Is this guy Brian Jones?
I think it's safe to characterize that as overt Nazi.
Yeah.
Yes.
If it's not, then I'm really lost, you know, in categorical and definitional terms.
I'm at sea.
If we can't call that Nazi, then I don't know where I am.
In contrast is Brian Jones, who was the counsel for the League of the South, Michael Hill and Michael Tubbs, who are all members of the League of the South.
He's just a local Charlottesville attorney.
He's essentially he's an attorney for hire.
He's a real lawyer.
I mean, just not a simple country lawyer.
He's just he's just a lawyer and he was hired and he did his job.
And ironically, he appears to be the only lawyer for the defense side to actually call a witness of his own who was not also a member of the defense.
They called one of the other members of the League of the South who was not who was not on trial as a kind of a character witness and as a witness to the events of the day.
So, you know, Maybe he's a decent lawyer.
Maybe he thought everybody has their day in court.
Does not appear to be a Nazi.
Certainly did not start talking about Holocaust denial theories on the stand, which some of the other lawyers managed to do.
It's a low bar to clear, but I guess he cleared it.
You know, I'm willing to kind of give him the benefit of the doubt of like, it's a job for hire.
He fears everybody needs a defense.
They paid him, you know, whatever, whatever else you feel about it.
You know, there are worse things to do as a lawyer.
Anyway, you know.
No, I was just commenting on, you know, what a sad situation it is when you can say he didn't actually deny the Holocaust as, you know, as a positive.
Right, right.
Worth commenting on.
James Alex Fields had an attorney, his name was David Campbell, and it comes out when you when you kind of look into his details and you look at some of the legal filings, somebody kind of kind of dug in and went like, he works for James Alex Fields car insurance company.
He's literally just trying to reduce the damages so that the car insurance company pays out as little as possible.
James Ellis Fields did not testify in this trial.
He basically, he did a deposition.
He just kind of admitted guilt and kind of moved on.
I mean, it's all, this is literally just, you know, trying to Distance Fields from the conspiracy charges as a way of kind of reducing the cost of the payout that whatever insurance company he works for has to pay.
That's literally all he did.
And so if you read the trial transcripts or if you read sort of the rushed reporting from Twitter and from Unicorn Riot, it's literally just like he comes up and he says, you know, so did you happen to know my client James Alex Fields before the day of August 12th?
And they go, Nope.
And it's like, all right, no further questions.
And that's, that's it.
So, um, and then you have our, our, our two, uh, pro se defendants, uh, Richard Spencer, Christopher Cantwell, um, who, uh, yeah, did, did their thing for sure.
Um, well, uh, We'll talk a little bit more about that as we kind of move on, but I think it's worth noting, and I apologize for the slightly scattershot approach here, but it's worth noting that conspiracy charge in this kind of civil conspiracy litigation, it does not require, like if you and I,
It doesn't require these sort of like conspiracy as we kind of like colloquially think of a conspiracy, like four people sit down and plan to rob a bank or plan to kill somebody or whatever, you know.
Conspiracy charges, and rightly or wrongly, you know, often, you know, are ways of sort of like encapsulating a kind of larger web of events of people who are all sort of working for the same goal.
Where a crime was committed.
And so if, you know, you and I and a couple of the people sat down and started planning a bank robbery, and then while we had a plan for a bank robbery, we're only going to rob the bank or only going to go and give a speech or something.
And then during this process, one of our guys goes and robs a bank.
If the litigants can prove that that was a foreseeable consequence of the kinds of activity that we were planning, we can definitely all be held responsible for that robbing of the bank.
You know, Cantwell in particular is obsessed with this idea that like, we didn't, I mean, this is, they all kind of say this, that we didn't sit down and conspire.
We didn't plan to go and commit violence, but you're all sitting there on these Discord chats, planning this Unite the Right event, sharing memes of people being run over with cars, talking about the legal liability of, you know, like there were in mid 2017 Republican lawmakers who were trying to make it legal to run over protesters who were blocking the streets.
They're literally all planning this.
They're planning a torchlight march, where they're bringing in tiki torches and talking about how they're going to bash antifa skulls, and then they come and bash people's skulls.
This is not complicated, you know?
Like, the fact that you were also planning to go and give speeches, and the fact that you have this sort of, like, Paying to know this is all in self-defense is not actually a defense.
And that's the only defense any of these people offered in any kind of realistic way.
Because once you have that level of evidence, which, by the way, this is something that's kind of been talked about now that the trial is over.
You know, the the plaintiffs in this case did not find all that evidence for themselves.
Anti-fascists found all that evidence.
Anti-fascists put all that out there.
The reason they have all that is not because they're very clever discovery procedures.
The reason they have all that is because anti-fascists like put it all on the Internet and said, please do something about this.
Yes.
So, you know, no, no, no, no skin off the nose to to the lawyers who are very skilled and did their job, et cetera, et cetera.
But like It would be nice if there was at least some credit given to the anonymous anti-fascist to, like, risk life and limb to stand up to this stuff and to gather all this information.
But, of course, this is completely disreputable kind of behavior, so nobody gets any kind of street credit for any of that kind of stuff.
All right.
So I realize we are this far into this and we have not even started playing clips yet.
And hopefully we will.
Hopefully this will not be too long.
But you got your cold open there, which was from a Full House episode called Never Recant Well.
And that was We're going to be talking a lot about Full House.
We've got a full Full House episode coming up sometime in the not too distant future.
But that's full for the for the listeners.
That's Full House.
H.A.U.S.
H.A.U.S.
Yes.
And this is the Nazi Dads podcast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I've been I've been on this one for a while.
So, you know, that's going to that's going to be a fun episode for for values of fun that cover I don't speak German anyway.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, without within our parameters of the of the definitions of words.
Yeah.
Yes.
And that was when one of the attorneys who appears to be the I mean, he has done some kind of corporate law stuff, but got his start doing, you know, defense work for indigent clients in the in the Bronx, basically trying to keep, you know, poor black people out of out of jail and from serving long sentences.
So, you know, good on you.
This did not work for Harvey Weinstein, as far as I know.
But Michael Block, who apparently had a bit of a rapport with Cantwell, because Cantwell being in jail, somebody had to basically call him up and read the legal filings to him or deliver them to him or in some other way.
And Block just ends up being kind of the guy who just ended up with that work.
And apparently he and Cantwell had some kind of I mean, you know, they're not going to be going to Cantwell detail.
I'm sure they're not buddies, but at least he was able to, you know, Cantwell spoke fairly fondly of him.
And even in some of his legal filings, which is his handwritten legal filings, which is fascinating.
He was the Clarice Starling to Hannibal Lecter.
Well, in one of his he didn't say this in a legal filing, but on this episode, he says, you know, he he's kind of mocking Michael Bloch.
And he says, you know, how's it going to feel when you lose this case to the crying Nazi?
And he thinks he really got one over on Michael Bloch, right?
Oh, yeah.
He's really pleased with himself.
He's really pleased with himself and everybody.
That singer.
Right.
That singer.
And now he owes $700,000.
So, you know, we will we will get to him talking about talking about his ladder guy.
You know, the guy walked away and Cantwell was thinking, I got him.
He's going to be sore from that for ages.
Whereas, of course, the guy was thinking, that guy's a fucking nutcase.
Well, and he actually thinks he's going to win.
Cantwell's big thing is he's sitting around and talking about, you know, his what he wants to say is, look, all these people that we that were injured that day were sort of like it was mutual combat.
They were Antifa.
They were carrying clubs.
They were all wearing red bandanas, which is apparently Antifa code.
I've never heard of it before.
That reminds me of John Nash deciding that anybody wearing a red tie was a communist.
But they're all antifa.
They're all anti-fascist.
You can see all these weapons.
So he's literally kind of going through exhibits.
I mean, we've got an audio kind of playing that.
Well, here, why don't we just go ahead and play a little bit of this audio here.
This is from a, so to speak, episode 793.
It starts around 14 minutes and 30 seconds.
And this is This is how Cantwell described questioning Elizabeth Sines, the other named plaintiff who was a lawsuit at the time of United Right, who has now graduated and is now a lawyer.
But this is how he described questioning her on the stand.
And this is more and more Cantwell, obviously.
Yeah, some Cantwell action for you.
No, but of course not.
I had a lot of fun using plaintiff's exhibits to show them that she was a... Well, they don't want to... What's the word?
Somebody got admonished for publicly disparaging the veracity of a witness, and so what I should say is that her words seem to be at odds with the video.
So, just to break in here, what he's referring to there is that Jason Kessler, who is the named defendant in the case of Science v. Kessler, was not in the courtroom at the time.
He was monitoring via Zoom and was literally tweeting and posting on Telegram about the trial as it was happening and defaming various witnesses for the for the plaintiffs and people who were like actively like injured on the stand he would then go well yeah this is her being a communist or whatever yeah he got he got a severe talking to and that stopped for at least a little while
so anyway that's what that's what catwell was referring to there briefly and i seem to i seem to have gone to excruciating lengths to to show this she said that you know that she wasn't involved with anybody with antifa she was She said she might have heard about it, she didn't really know.
And then none of her friends, definitely none of the people she was marching with had weapons for sure.
Maybe somebody had helmets, but no goggles, and definitely no baseball bats.
And so, you know, I want to say, well, okay, let's look at the video that you deleted from Facebook.
Let's see what happens to me when we look at the video that you deleted from Facebook.
And sure enough, there's, you know, people in helmets and masks.
And it's, by the way, it's a hot summer's day.
And they're wearing, you know, this whole, you know, entirely on-weather like getup.
And they're carrying baseball bats and gloves and sticks and wearing goggles and helmets.
And then they start chanting, uh, anti-antifascista.
And the chant is everybody's doing it, right?
It's like 200 people chanting, anti-fascista.
And they're walking down the street.
And it's like, and like, I'm like, okay, so, you know, do you remember this anti-fascista chant that your friends were doing?
And she walked down the street and on it, mom, you know?
She has no recollection of this, of course.
And so, but, you know, that tune, if you've heard that chant before, ah, anti-antifascista.
It's a catchy tune, you know?
And so it was kind of like dancing.
It was kind of dancing while they were chanting.
And I think the Southfield didn't like that at all.
And so, on the record of the federal court today, there's a tune.
He sounds really happy.
It's shocking that you can't stop dancing.
He is very proud of that performance, as you can tell.
He's really, he sounds really happy.
He sounds like he's really enjoying himself.
He was, he had a blast during this whole procedure.
As we said in the previous Cantwell Catch-Up episode, I mean, he has been like the bottom of the barrel, like shit Nazi for a long time now.
Nobody wants to touch him with a 10 foot pole.
And then suddenly he gets to come up and do what's essentially the radical agenda, live in court.
And he's the hero now.
He gets to be a top dog.
And so he's coming out of this great, you know, ultimately.
He's having a great old time.
And so his whole thing was to sit around and basically like pause the video over and over again.
He wasted hours and hours and hours of the court's time, you know, pausing and rewinding and playing in slow motion and arguing.
He wanted to play this full two and a half hour like planning meeting video to indicate there's no conspiracy happening here despite the fact that we're sitting It's a video of you lot doing what is legally defined as conspiring.
Exactly.
At one point he's playing this video for one of the plaintiffs and he's saying, did you see me hit you?
Did you see, did I do this?
Did I hit anybody?
That person was hitting first and he's got this whole like narrative in his head.
And then she stops him and says like, hold on, can you go back?
Go back.
Hold on.
I think you might have hit me there.
He just kind of moves on.
It's like...
So, so he was, he was trying to pull the old, oh, I've got film of me not doing it routine.
And actually the film was of him doing it after all.
Well, and the whole thing is like, no, I didn't hit you.
I hit a lot of these other people, right?
You know, which is not exactly going to like, give you a lot of credence in front of a jury when you're like, no, I hit that guy.
That guy was the one I hit.
And I swear, like, the greatest moment in the entire trial for me is, so Michael Block kind of comes out there, and he's very much the, I'm going to, you know, just ask very straightforward, simple questions, and just burn these guys to the ground, kind of, you know, just getting them to impeach their testimony.
It goes on too long in some places.
The judge kind of encourages him to hurry up.
There's a little bit of that going on.
But he finally gets Cantwell on the stand and he starts asking Cantwell questions.
And at one part, at one point he says, you know, he's got a, he's got a post that Cantwell, you know, put on his Facebook after Unite the Right.
And I haven't been able to find the actual visual of this, but it's apparently like Cantwell has gone on and on, kind of talking about, yes, I posted all this stuff.
Yes, I said all this anti-Semitic stuff.
Yes, I said all that, but it's all First Amendment, First Amendment, didn't conspire, didn't conspire, didn't conspire.
And then finally there's one meme, which is literally of the James Alex Field's car attack, and then with a caption underneath it, and then Block shows it to him, and Kentwell gets like angry on the stand, and he calls Block a fucking asshole, or something like that.
Stop being an asshole.
At one point, Block asks, you know, did you ever refer to people with an antisemitic slur?
Did you ever refer to lawyers in this case with slurs?
Yes.
Did you ever refer to me as a slur?
Yes, I did.
But the absolute greatest moment, I believe, is Dylan Hopper.
Dylan Hopper, who actually did admit in a deposition before the case to assaulting people and to plan to assault people ahead of time.
Dylan Hopper, I might have a couple of names confused, but I believe it's Dylan Hopper.
They have him testify by video.
through his deposition because he wasn't available.
He kind of dropped out of the case early on and refused to participate.
So he didn't show up.
And so he just gets the default judgment against him.
He knew better than to even bother to hire an attorney, I suppose.
But Cantwell's whole thing during this whole time is to point out all the people with clubs, all the people that are like.
And so the defendants, most of them suffered brain damage during this process, don't have clear memories of exactly what was on what video, right?
And so, yeah, there's this person next to you holding a club.
Therefore, you are part of this anti-fascist mob, and therefore you were like kind of a legitimate, like you were engaging in violence, et cetera, et cetera.
That's the argument that they're trying to make, right?
It sounded from the clip like that's that was his his strategy was basically to say, well, you're Antifa, aren't you?
Ergo, you're bad.
Right.
We can't believe anything you say.
Right.
Well.
At a certain point, Cantwell is giving testimony and then a block comes up and he has, you know, one more question.
And he says they have to he has to, like, get permission from the judge to play video.
So then they're out for 20 minutes and they come back in.
I'm sitting there going like, oh, I can't wait for this questioning.
This is going to be epic.
He has one question and it just points to somebody on the video and goes, is that Dylan Hopper?
The man who just admitted to planning to assault people at Unite the Right.
Is that Dylan Hopper standing right next to you?
you?" and Campbell goes, "Yes." That's the moment in which, you know, Cantwell like mocking, you know, how's it gonna feel when you lose this case to the crying Nazi?
It's like, yeah, no.
Cold as ice, but it's great.
You know, that would certainly burn, you know, if it happened.
Of course, it didn't.
It was never going to.
These are professional lawyers with, like, mounds of evidence.
So I would like to, part of what I wanted to do in this episode was to go back and start, like, talking about, like, we could go through and impeach all of these people, like Richard Spencer on the stand, Maybe we can do like a Science V Kessler kind of follow up in the future.
And once I get the official transcript and we can kind of go through like what Spencer said he was saying versus what he said back in, you know, 2017.
And, you know, we could do some of that kind of stuff.
But I think it's worth noting that Mike Enoch and, well, I think it's just Mike Enoch, Mike Penovich, I don't think the right stuff was actually on this litigation to begin with, but Mike Enoch was.
And he successfully argued his way out of it back in 2018.
I'm not sure exactly how he did that, except he was just very litigious and argued a lot and produced a lot of paperwork.
And the judge, I guess, bought his bullshit.
But if we're talking about like sort of one of the things of the case is like ratification after the fact.
And so celebrating the events of the violence that was committed that day immediately afterwards is considered this kind of like ratification of the events.
You're not sorry it happened.
You're not apologetic.
You're not, you know, like, like you're, you're actively, you thought this is, this is where things should go.
Right.
And by that standard, The Daily Show and Mikey and all those guys were 100% liable for this.
And I apologize, there may be some bleeping that we're going to have to do here, but I would like to play the very opening of the very first episode of The Daily Show that aired after Unite the Right.
This actually, I believe, was on the Sunday.
They were doing It's either Sunday or Monday, but they were doing, they did four episodes that week, which normally at that time, they were, they had just kind of opened up the paywall, but they even made them all free for everybody because this is a big thing.
And they needed to control the narrative, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Context for this clip is that at the time there was a question about the, about the, the, the, the car tag for the James Alex Fields, his car.
And there was a meme that, They had somebody attract a certain number as the car tag, and that car tag became a meme for like two days until it was verified that that actually wasn't the number.
But the car tag is GVF1111.
That was the meme at the time.
And that is the title of this episode that aired right after Unite the Right.
And there's a reference to it in the audio.
So I think it's important to just play a little bit of this.
So my apologies for playing some Daily Show Up, but I think it gets to the quick of this matter pretty quickly.
Yeah, just remember as you listen to this, listeners, the phrase ratification after the event.
It is The Daily Show-Up on the Right Stuff Radio.
Yes, a very special Sunday edition.
Sunday, Sunday, Sunday of The Daily Show-Up.
Number 179, a little after-action report deal going on here.
The Daily Show-Up.
The Daily Show-Up.
From The Right Stuff.
Dot what?
Wait, isn't this show actually like CFV1111 or something like that?
I don't know.
What was the number?
I was just trying to do that.
Just minding my own business.
Oh, sorry.
Sorry, sorry.
So, uh, yeah.
We're here.
The big Seville thing finally happened.
It felt like the day that was never gonna come, and here it was.
Came and went.
A lot of action out there.
Brought to you by, uh, Dodge.
Sponsored by Dodge.
Yeah.
So.
The Undodgeable.
Yeah, definitely.
Sponsored by... Yeah, so Daily Show is CVF1111, or whatever the hell the license was, I don't know.
That's how they chose to come in after this event.
Sponsored by Dodge.
I just, you know, like.
Yeah.
I mean, comment is superfluous, really.
Right.
You know, if there was an, you know, a Black Lives Matter rally where somebody killed a bunch of people or killed and injured a bunch of people, and then we came on, I don't speak German, and started talking about, like, sponsored by that guy's license plate or whatever, you would call us moral monsters and you would be right to do so, right?
Sure.
Not that we need to demonstrate that the people who run the podcast, The Daily Show, are moral monsters, but they are.
And I wanted to play that just to kind of whet your whistle because, oh boy, again, there's probably a multi-part episode just going through all the different people who showed up on the podcast that week.
And all the stuff that kind of went into how the alt-right fell from that point.
We might do that at some point, if there's interest in that.
But I really wanted to give you that as context, because two episodes later, none other than Chris Cantwell shows up.
And this is how he talked about his activities on the day of August 11th, when he assaulted people.
This is obviously before he went to jail.
This is before the Crying Nazi video.
This is him.
He is, there are questions about like some people like some sheriffs and some cops are looking for him, etc, etc.
But he is, he is a beauty.
And again, if we're going to talk about, you know, ratification after the fact, I think this is this is, again, key evidence of this.
Mm hmm.
This is this is by far the longest clip.
We may stop it halfway through and do some commentary, but this is this is about three minutes long.
So just keep going and going.
Easy going.
We need to talk to Chris, though, right?
Chris.
Chris has limited time.
So, yeah, I've got to go.
I've got to go drive a Huffington Post reporter to suicide after this.
There you go.
All right.
So.
Alright, so what did you want to get off your large and expanded chest this year, Chris?
Yes!
I don't want to get anything off of it.
I just want to smear myself in commie blood and scream, really.
Oh, there you go.
I had so much fun this weekend.
It was like the greatest thing ever.
It was a good time.
If I don't end up in prison for this, it's going to be the best thing I ever did.
Well, even if you do end up in prison... Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't want to go to prison.
That's gonna suck.
But, you know, when I get out, I'll feel differently, you know.
But, uh, yeah, it was great.
I'm fucking physically removing Democrats and Communists.
I like how I was following the last day or two you had a lot of public posts on your Facebook feed and all these like all these little commie scum all these little worthless faggots coming in like you're a pussy it's like you're looking at a picture of a man and like belting people in the face because of his you know because of political clash and you're calling him a pussy.
While being drenched in like pepper spray and saliva and acid and sweat and like every other thing like You're calling me a pussy.
They've got a picture of me with tears in my eyes because, shockingly enough, that happens when you get sprayed with bear mace in your face.
And you're like, look at this crying pussy!
I'm like, yeah, that's after I physically removed no less than four of you fucking cockroaches.
It's like, you're in self-defense.
In self-defense, of course.
Always in self-defense.
They've always got to just throw that in there, right?
Yeah.
We did all this in self-defense.
Cantwell won't say it.
Cantwell is actually just going to say, yeah, I've already done a number of appearances in which I've verified that this is all in self-defense.
So I'm just going to sit here and brag about it now.
But I mean, the whole attitude here is, look at us.
We kicked ass.
We took names.
This is great.
This is like an amazing thing that we did yesterday.
Now, Jesse Dunston, who is the one of those voices you're hearing there, was not there at the at Charlottesville that day.
He was the one member of this crew who wasn't there.
The other kind of three main guys in of the Daily Show were there that day, including Enoch himself.
So Let's finish this clip because this is Cantwell describing the violence he enacted that day.
He maintains this story for years.
This is basically two days after the event, this is the story he tells and he maintains it all the way up to the present day.
This is the narrative that Cantwell is going to give you.
I've clarified this on other mediums, which is why I feel comfortable letting it fly, but yes, I will state unequivocally, right here, that the picture of me, there's a picture that is right now my Facebook cover profile photo, of me pepper spraying a guy, that stupid commie asshole had already hit at least two of our guys, and you can see in the picture that he's moving towards me, that guy's about to attack me.
And pepper spraying him was the least damage that I could have done to him.
And if he had kept on coming after I'd have sprayed him, then I'd have knocked his stupid commie teeth out.
And the mace was the least damaging thing that I could have done to him.
And then, having used up the mace in that, I went and I jumped on top of these assholes who had wolf-packed our guy and had him on the ground, and I started tearing some fat bastard's back of his head apart.
And then, when he was out of the way, I knocked over somebody who was kicking one of our guys, and then I saw some stupid bitch, a woman with a fucking expandable baton, and even at that, I still tried to be chivalrous, and instead of fucking breaking her stupid twat neck, I tackled her, and that's when I got fucking bear-maced.
God, sounds like a pussy to me.
Yeah, well, what a fucking pussy.
Get some balls.
Only four.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that sounds like a pussy to me, too.
Yeah.
You know, actually, you know, surrounding with 700 Nazi friends with tiki torches, 20 students, even if one of them did happen to have a collapsible baton on that day and, you know, swarming and attacking them.
Yeah, that actually does sound like the act of a pussy, regardless of How many of them you took down that night?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even in his bullshit bravado version of events, it sounds like a cowardice to me.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
These men are utterly, utterly cowards.
They just it's it's terrible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm sure you're now wondering, what's been the response of the other Nazis to this trial?
How have other Nazis been covering it?
So, Trey Garrison over at National Justice, it's National hyphen Justice, this is Eric Stryker's thing.
Trey Garrison kind of goes by the moniker Specter, he has for years, but he was doxed a few years ago by the SPLC, or by Mike Hayden before he joined the SPLC, so when he was at Newsweek.
But he has been doxed for a number of years, and now he's just kind of going by his real name.
He was a real journalist in Texas for a number of years, and covered every day of the trial for what's euphemistically called the national hyphen among the Nazis, because when Eric Stryker set it up, he used the national-justice.com.
They think it's very funny to call it that.
So, we have had some coverage there, and it's obviously, you know, completely biased in the Nazis' direction, and talking about how terrible the plaintiffs were, and how terrible the lyring was, and just how Jewish the whole thing is.
That's really the key that comes up over and over again in these conversations.
Well, I assumed, you know.
Instead of reading any of that to you, or even linking to it, because, I mean, Google it, it's there.
I mean, you know, if you want to see it and you're not a Nazi, I can point you to it, come into my DMs or whatever.
Instead, I thought I would play you a clip from Fash the Nation.
And this is another TRS show kind of related to the National Justice Party.
We will be doing a lot more coverage of these guys.
We'll get right back into them because the NJP is doing some real bullshit lately, and I think it's worth covering.
But this is Juan Balog, who we discussed previously when we were discussing the National Justice Party.
Um, there will be a whole episode on Warren Balog and his, uh, uh, lovely, you can have my, uh, the air quotes here.
My, his, his lovely wife, uh, Emily Ucas.
Um, There will be probably a two-parter about those two here coming up soon.
But Warren Ballack is now replaced later than this, but as of like last week, he has replaced James Alsup as second chair on Fascination, which I find quietly hilarious because James Alsup was always completely outclassed on that show.
And Warren Ballagh is the only person who can actually stop Jazz Hands McPheels, who's the main host of that show, from just talking over everyone else.
Anyway, just a little aesthetic criticism there, but it's pretty obvious when Warren Ballagh sat in for that a couple of times.
He was going to be the new co-host, but he and Jazz Hands decided to talk about the Science V Kessler Plaintiff Attorneys.
And this is from Fascination 357.
And this is a couple of minutes long.
So again, we may dip in here a little bit, but it does kind of tell you, this is the tone of the overall discussion and all of these podcasts I've been listening to.
This is the tone of how people Okay, so this is sort of representative then?
It's representative.
I mean, it's, it's yeah.
And it's just meant to sort of get the idea across of like, this is the kind of things that they're saying.
I could do a super cut of like pulling in, you know, 20 different episodes and kind of give it to you.
But This gives you at least a sense.
This is very, very standard.
The attitude towards how this trial went among the far right.
Right.
It's believable to me that she was the one Gentile, because she seems to be the only one of all the… He's talking about Karen Dunn, who was one of the plaintiff's attorneys, and he was convinced at the beginning of this clip that Karen Dunn was the one Gentile, because he didn't think Dunn sounded like a Jewish name, and he saw her as competent.
You're going to hear this, but the way this logic works is that the Jews have been, they used to be clever and crafty back in the day, but now they are just nepotistic.
And because they are just swarms of nepotism, they no longer have like competence in their chosen fields.
And so it makes sense that the one competent person, the one competent attorney was the non-Jew.
All of this is completely That makes sense.
There is no tether to reality in any of this, of course, you know, as you can imagine, when, you know, these plaintiffs won $26.2 million in damages from the jury.
But this gives you, that's the explanation for what you're about to hear.
Okay.
Uh, plaintiff's attorneys that is actually there based on merit rather than based on tribal nepotism.
Um, it's been shocking hearing Roberta Kaplan actually in action, uh, and that Michael Block is, and I've said this many times, but he's cut from the same cloth as a Jared Kushner, the classic Young, Gen X, ultra-privileged, ultra-connected, nepotistic, ultra-ambitious, very high opinion of himself, little rat Jew boy.
Very much of that type that just, they have been, they've been born into this power, they've never had to fight for it, they've never had to claw their way up like their, you know, rag-picking ancestors.
And the arrogance is there, but also the incompetence is there.
He screwed up so many of these, what do you call them, the interrogation, you know, the questioning witnesses.
There were so many of these cases where Judge Moon Had to shut him down for repeatedly playing these gotcha games, trying to impeach people, testing their memory.
Just breaking in here.
So the way that these guys, the Nazis, are pretending this happened was they would point out some minor factual inaccuracy.
Oh you were there for three minutes and instead I was here for five or something between like the deposition testimony and they like these are just like minor details when in fact they were more like Richard Spencer would claim that oh I only mess it and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me here I don't have the transcript but You know, Richard Spencer would claim like, oh, I think I only sent like three text messages to Jason Kessler during that time period.
And then Block would pull up the cell phone records and the text message records.
And do you think that is three the correct number?
I believe it was three or four or five, maybe.
And then it's like, would the correct number be 87 messages?
Which goes to the central claim of the depth of the conspiracy, because if Richard Spencer had only messaged with these guys a couple of times, he could argue, yes, I am just a, you know, I was an invited speaker.
I really didn't have a lot to do with this.
My name was on the poster because I was the big celebrity at the time, but he was very obviously much more deeply invested in the planning, even if he was not a quote unquote planner of the events.
And of course, he also, you know, ratified after the fact a lot of the events of this, although I don't think he ever celebrated the James Ellis Fields car attack, just to be fair to, you know, friend of the pod, Richard Spencer.
No, not at all.
But just to just to be clear about that, I don't I do not believe I found any clip of Richard Spencer ratifying after the fact that event, but he definitely ratified the August 11th Torch March.
He was and this actually came up at trial.
But anyway, that's what Balag and what all of the what all of the Nazis are trying to say about like the block was completely incompetent.
It was just going out there.
And Moon really did like, you know, really did like tell Block to move on.
A lot.
I mean, there was a lot of like kind of consternation there, much that the judge felt like Block was moving, wasn't taking too much time with this kind of stuff.
And, you know, who knows what the, you know, again, I'm not a lawyer, I wasn't there, you know, but they would take any kind of, you know, any time that Moon judged in their favor as like the sign of like the incompetence of the plaintiffs, etc.
But they are definitely diminishing the meaning of the impeachment that Block was able to give to these defendants in these in these categories and they'll they will never ever ever admit that you know it's always they will always pretend it was like minor you know differences or whatever but that's not that's not what was going on uh to continue this is jazz hands by the way to interrupt because this is where i this is always like when smash early life fails uh this is where you'll always find what you need
um the rama day camp in washington dc which is a jewish day camp um brian netter and karen dunn are uh are uh donors uh to to this and netter has been Brian Netter is, I mean, Netter is a very Jewish name.
And when you look up Brian Netter, he is just like, I mean, you don't even need to smash early life on this guy.
So all I needed to do was connect Brian, you know, it's easy to find out who she's married to.
Do you think she's racially Jewish?
Have you seen a picture of her?
They literally go on like this for over an hour, like talking about how Jewish these people are.
These sad, driveling little pricks.
All four of the attorneys for the plaintiffs were Jewish, and that just shows how horrible the whole thing is.
And like, it's always about like, you know, he says like the sniveling rat-faced Jew and that kind of stuff.
I apologize for even using that language and for playing it already, but it's worth Highlighting like this is how like this is this is how like physical and how you know, like vile these people are with this kind of stuff.
It's just it's just you know, there is no there's no argument being made here.
It's just oh, well, they're all Jewish therefore and not even like, you know, Jewish weddings or not, you know, like not practicing Jewish or like how this is like a religious difference.
This is a these are like ethnic aliens and therefore, you know, not fit to be a part of our society, not fit to judge good men like the people who are on trial here.
I mean, that's the that's the essential logic there.
Yes.
Yes.
Pathetic.
It's they've got nothing, basically.
And so now I think it's worth talking about the responses of a couple of the people who were found liable after the trial.
And don't worry, we are going to get back to Cantwell at the end.
We've got another clip from a Full House bonus episode.
And you haven't even heard this one yet, Jack, because I found this one after I shared the clips with you last time.
This is new for me then.
Another friend of the pod, Matthew Heimbach, the very reformed Matthew Heimbach.
Yeah, he's on the left now.
He's definitely not a Nazi anymore.
He's got a new show.
It's called National Bolshevik Radio.
I'm not linking to it, but it's on Odyssey.
Easy to find.
And this is from the November 23rd, 2021 episode.
And this is the this is the episode.
This came out the day the trial concluded, the day the verdicts came down.
So and this is, again, kind of how how the Nazis are celebrating this victory on their end.
You know, kind of worth highlighting here.
And this is, you know, a couple of minutes long, but we may kind of dip in and out of this.
Not to cut in, George, but like Let's remember, Roberta Kaplan has represented Harvey Weinstein.
She has done work for Andrew Cuomo, who of course is now dealing with charges and he lost his position over sexual assault and harassment.
And she's represented Wall Street banks.
So going back to just the 2008 crash, the same banks that took hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of American homes.
The true wrecking ball for everyday working class people The banks are the resistance.
an attorney that actually represents those people.
She doesn't represent the poor black family that's going to lose their home.
She doesn't represent the poor Appalachian.
She doesn't represent the Hispanic family that is dealing with the banks.
She represents the banks.
She represents serial abusers.
The banks hate fascists, and fascists are bad, so the banks are the resistance.
Yes.
Which is so very tiresome.
Just dipping in here briefly to note that this is very similar language that you get out of a Caleb Maupin, by the way.
Oh, yes.
I've been resisting doing that for a long time, but there's definitely a Caleb Maupin episode coming.
Let's put it that way.
Also... I don't know if he himself is significant enough, but certainly the phenomenon of Nazbolism, I think, an attendant phenomenon would be interesting.
I think, I think Moffat, I think you can draw like a really straight line between some of these figures.
And anyway, I don't know quite how to cover that one yet.
So anyway, holding off on that for now, but this emphasis on the banks in general, like, yeah, we will just put a pin in that for a future episode.
It's, it's, there's so much there.
I don't want to get sidetracked.
I don't want to get distracted from this, but also, Like, obviously we're not defending Andrew Cuomo or Harvey Weinstein, who were both defended by Roberta Kaplan and these kind of big-name law firms.
Not to defend the absolutely predatory, awful behavior.
Like, fuck both of those people.
I have no love for either of them, obviously.
Matthew Heimbach himself, Uh, was convicted, not just of assaulting a counter protest or a protester at a Trump rally in 2016, but tried to strangle his wife and went to prison for that for a few months.
Um, was engaging in, uh, sexual improprieties with, you know, consenting adults for, for, for all, you know, there's no allegation otherwise, but, um, uh, Also, Christopher Cantwell admitted on audio to raping a woman at one point, although he doesn't put it in those terms.
He says he came down a woman's throat without her permission, without telling her, after she asked him not to.
He did it anyway, which is sexual assault by definition.
He admits to doing that, at least he claimed to have done it.
I believe that he did it.
There's no, like, legal validation there.
But I believe that that's true.
Certainly, as a matter of character, there'd be nothing to stop him.
Right.
No, absolutely not.
Richard Spencer.
Again, there is no legal case that went for this.
I do not want to claim otherwise.
But both his ex-wife and I believe his current girlfriend have made allegations that he has been physically abusive to her.
And there are text messages between him and his now ex-wife who that he actually got excluded from the evidence and when she is, he wishes that she would kill herself.
And then, you know, he wanted to kill her, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
These people who are in this trial, you know, very many of them, and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head, had very severe, you know, crimes against vulnerable people in their lives.
And so for Matt Heimbach to get in his moral high horse to talk about, you know, someone defending Harvey Weinstein, you know, moats and beams, my friend, moats and beams.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's continue with this clip.
A really grand speech on all that, but just the idea that of when you are on the side of the actual banks, it's not like mom and pa's local credit union in rural Arkansas, but like the banks in New York city that are but like the banks in New York city that are the most evil sons of bitches. - Yeah.
Yeah, when you're literally a Wall Street attorney, and then to whitewash your reputation, it's like, well, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna sue basically fucking everybody that decided to attend a legally permitted event about Confederate statues.
Also, clearly the event was not just about Confederate statues, and that's the other lie that they keep telling over and over again for the last five years now, talking about what Unite the Right was about.
Oh, it was just about Confederate statues, though.
It was about white supremacy and white nationalism and ethno-nationalism.
It was about getting everybody on that page.
And you were using the statues as the excuse to get you there.
Anyway, and everybody who's been paying attention knows it.
And when you guys talk amongst yourselves, everybody knows it then too, and everybody knew it in 2017.
And guess how I know that?
Anyway.
So, yeah, that's Heimbach, the very much reformed, no longer a Nazi, Matt Heimbach talking on his national Bolshevik radio program about the trial.
Believe me, we could go through, there is so much.
I feel like this trial has really kind of brought out the nationalists.
We could go through all of these episodes for hours and just, there's miles and miles of content.
But instead, Let's talk about Thanksgiving.
Well, we're not really going to talk about Thanksgiving.
We're going to talk about the Full House Thanksgiving with Cantwell special.
And this is a, you know, a brief phone call that Matthew Q. Gerber, who is a former State Department official, who is kind of the lead guy on Full House.
Again, we'll do a Full House episode in the future.
This is Cantwell's response.
To the verdict, and this was, you know, recorded just the day after the next day after the.
The verdict came down maybe two days after because it was actually recorded on Thanksgiving Day.
And I don't know if I kept it in this clip, but they actually do talk about like what they served in the prison for Thanksgiving, et cetera.
You know, Cantwell is kind of obsessed with like the quality of the prison food.
I mean, I get it.
You know, if I were in prison, I would, that would be something I would talk about as well.
But listening to Cantwell from GLU, listen to him talk a lot about how, whether the food was even relatively decent or not.
And he usually, you know, This isn't supposed to be pretty bad, but he's like, oh, yeah, they did.
Apparently they served him a pretty good lunch on Thanksgiving.
So that actually I'm I'm not happy Cantwell got it, but I'm happy that like at least the prison system is, you know, Cantwell can go go fuck himself.
But I'm happy that like other prisoners, you know, you know, at least at least that moderate amount of comfort.
But yeah, this is this is worth this.
We'll do this and then we'll then we'll kind of wrap up here.
So.
We're thankful for your service and your good fight.
You got to fight in Charlottesville multiple times, I guess, but the thought occurred that holidays... Some more brutal than others.
Yeah, exactly.
You were in chemical warfare there, according to some of the legislation, but the thought occurred that being behind bars on holidays is supposedly really tough on guys.
So how was today?
Give us a little bit of color.
This ain't so bad.
For lunch they gave us hot turkey and gravy and some stuffing and the stuffing was actually pretty good and the guy who was sitting next to me didn't want his stuffing so I did pretty good at lunch.
Dinner was less impressive than the sandwiches.
You'd think they'd at least give us turkey sandwiches for dinner.
But, and so really, I'm still basking in the glow of the courtroom.
And so it's kind of hard to get me down, honestly.
Even in the wake of being told that I owe Antifa $700,000, I'm still feeling pretty good about what I did over there.
No, I know.
It's kind of hard to get me down.
It's so clear that you're a natural born fighter, Chris.
Because, you know, when the verdict had just come down and you called me, I was worried you were going to be upset.
You know, because we all had possibly unrealistic expectations that at least some of you guys were going to get out, Scott.
scot-free and you said, "Tell everybody not to worry, they can't garnish my commissary." So far as you know.
You know, everybody got a kick out of that.
I love how they open with "Thank you for your service," like he's a fucking Marine back They constantly fucking talk this way.
And neither of these men has served in any kind of military.
You know, I mean, a lot of the guys in this movement have, you know, served, but like very few of the leaders have.
It's yeah.
But they always use these like military metaphors.
Thank you for your service in Charlottesville.
Thank you for beating those commies on that.
You know, it's always in that like, You know, in this like completely grandiose, you know, military metaphor bullshit.
It's constant.
It's absolutely constant.
Yeah.
So aside from the apparently perfectly fine turkey lunch that he had, He's very happy with how things turned out.
He's over the moon.
He's going to get out of prison about this time next year, I think.
He may be in a halfway house before then, but he'll be out under probation in about a year.
He's going to go back to doing exactly what he's going to do.
Apparently, there are rumors that the movement's going to try to put together the money to send him to law school.
So, you know, Chris Cantwell might be an attorney in a few years.
Well, you know, he's clearly showed a natural aptitude, you know.
Right.
You know, the logical next step.
Right.
Yeah.
Because he only lost $700,000.
People were watching his performance in the Synes v Kessler case and they were like, wow, you know, this guy's, this guy's a natural lawyer.
Find your mind.
Dancing and shouting Antifa, you know.
Yeah.
No, that's the, that's the, that's the way you will.
Yeah, that's how you prove your legal acumen, I suppose.
That's right.
Yeah, nitpicking over the memories of somebody that, you know, your side left with concussion.
Well, you said you weren't wearing goggles.
Exactly.
Yeah, and I think it's worth kind of You know, again, ending this episode, and the reason we went through this is because, A, I think it's interesting to kind of point out what they're saying on their side about this.
But also, there's a real, there's been a really mixed history over time with how, with particularly civil litigation against these figures.
And one of the figures that we've discussed to some degree is Tom Metzger.
We did a two-parter, kind of a separated two-parter on him.
And I think, you know, I have been in the acquaintance of Amanda Rogers, at least on Twitter.
She's a Miss Entropy, and she has a background in both sort of, you know, kind of kind of ISIS brand terrorism.
And kind of white nationalist terrorism and has been thinking a lot about Tom Metzger and has been writing and doing a lot of like in-depth research about Metzger and I'm really looking forward to the papers that she produces on this.
But something that I was probably a little bit sanguine about in our Episodes on this is that, you know, Metzger lost a court case and then sort of like became this kind of puttering TV repairman for the rest of his life.
And I don't think that I quite kind of fell into the thing of like the civil case that crushed him.
The civil case definitely sort of like didn't allow him to do certain things that he probably would have liked to have done in terms of kind of building up the Aryan Nations compound.
But he did, he did continue to be active in the movement until the day he died.
And he did definitely inspire a number of, you know, kind of, quote unquote, lone wolf terrorists over the years.
But Metzger is definitely someone who continued to be active to the end of his life.
And, you know, the civil litigation didn't, you know, it precludes certain kinds of activity and the lawsuit is definitely, it has an effect, but it's not the end of the line for any of these guys.
And the truth of the matter is that none of these guys ever had You know, none of those guys has money, you know, they're never going to get any of that kind of money out of them, even if they can't kind of draw the thing down, even if they kind of garnish their wages for, you know, the rest of their lives or whatever.
I mean, it's a pittance compared to the actual, like, you know, the actual, both the cost of the litigation, you know, and the cost of the medical bills and everything that these plaintiffs have sought, you know?
There is a value to this, and I think that, you know, getting this kind of judgment matters.
I mean, it does make people less likely to do this exact kind of thing, but we're also seeing an evolution in this process.
You know, the National Justice Party and Patriot Front, who are very, they're very closely intertwined these days.
Patriot Front just did a several hundred man march on the National Mall just a few days ago.
Yeah.
And they've learned not to do kind of the big speech thing.
They've learned to kind of just march through and do a show of force.
They've learned to not advertise themselves so that nobody can impose them, you know, in person at the time.
But they still, these movements are still out there.
These people, some of these exact people are still out there.
And you know, like Heimbach is going to keep making his stupid, you know, Odyssey show, his stupid podcast.
The Daily Show is still going.
Campbell's going to get out.
Maybe he goes to law school or maybe he doesn't.
I guarantee you he's going to crash and burn with his new friends at like 60 seconds after he's You know, no longer behind bars and he's not the celebrity anymore because that's just the history of what Cantwell does.
But that's just Cantwell.
Yeah.
He's going to keep being a toxic piece of shit.
He's going to keep being a Nazi for the rest of his life.
None of that ends.
And that's why, you know, it is, there is this kind of like big question mark about, you know, what, what's the ultimate value here?
You know, and I think that we can Take this as a win.
We can take this kind of judgment, at least say, this is good that this came out this way, and not see this as sort of the end of anything, really.
It's only one battle in the never-ending war, basically, is kind of where I'm landing on it.
Sure, yeah.
It's an ongoing war of attrition, and every win carries its Carries its downsides as well.
Definitely.
I mean, you know, not least because, you know, this led this lawsuit costs tens of millions of dollars, you know.
And yes, it is.
I mean, actually, you know, Heimbach is right.
This is a bit of a whitewashing for this giant, super powerful legal firm.
That's why they kind of run these cases, because they want to they want this to be part of their you know, they want this to be the flag they can point to and say, Yeah, those are the great things that we do, but also like we do a lot of terrible corporate work as well.
You know, that's what happens when you're a highly paid lawyer, you know?
So yeah, it's all complicated.
It's all complicated and messy, but these guys are pieces of shit and I'm glad they lost.
You know, and actually, I would really love to see Roberta Kaplan et al put them back to the ringer for a couple of years and try to go after them on those on those federal charges again.
I that would be that would be lovely, I think.
Let's keep.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, so good for good by me.
And we will cover it again when when that comes back.
Yeah.
And this if they if they go for it again this time, time it so that the jury is not deliberating just before the Thanksgiving break.
Right.
That might facilitate matters a bit.
Right.
Yeah, no, I mean, and there's so much that we didn't even like touch on in this lawsuit.
I do want to just, I know we're wrapping up and I know to wrap up, but there's one, one moment, one thing that I really would like to highlight, and that is that this woman, Samantha, I know her last name, but it's public, but I'm not going to say it, but There's a woman, Samantha, who was dating Elliot Klein, who went by Eli Mosley.
He was sort of the lieutenant of the alt-right.
There's this New York Times visual documentary about him that I'll track down and link to.
It turns out he was lying about his military service.
He was one of the defendants here who declined to participate.
He actually went to jail for a little while over contempt of court because he refused to produce some documents.
It is very difficult to get contempt of court on that.
You have to be really, really intransigent for a really long time, but he managed it.
Yeah, but he was sheer determination.
He was dating this girl, Samantha, at the time, and she kind of gets into she starts doing some of the like planning for identity Europa, and she starts kind of kind of doing work and kind of planning stuff and gets and gets into the movement in this way before you unite the right.
And she was not she didn't testify at the trial.
She was out of the jurisdiction.
She was out of the 100 mile jurisdiction of when they can Call somebody in by the time the trial issue came up, but they had deposed her previously and they played bits of her deposition.
And I mean, she would talk about it.
And so after she left the movement, because like after Unite the Right, the scales kind of fell from her eyes and she really kind of saw.
You know, who knows what she believes and doesn't believe, but she definitely had some really damning testimony.
And when she was talking about, like, Eli Mosley, talking about how much he wanted to, like, kill people.
And like the, and this isn't like on a podcast.
This isn't, you know, in the middle of, you know, some, some big rally or anything like that.
This is, Like pillow talk between like Eli Mosley and his girlfriend, like they're sitting at night and he's talking about how, like, when push comes to shove, the time will come when I'm going to have to take command.
And that means I'm going to have to kill Richard Spencer.
And he would talk about how much he hated Jews and how much he hated black people.
And like, no, it was I mean, it's really, really damning testimony when it comes from a romantic partner.
Samantha also apparently, you know, was briefly involved with Richard Spencer.
Everything that I've heard is that Richard Spencer basically like went on a bit of a A carousel of us sleeping with every woman in the movement for a while while he was while he was married.
And if you wonder why, his also Nazi wife is an Oswald wife who is literally translated Dugan might have might have left him.
I don't think it was based on his ideological values, if you know what I mean.
I think there was a lot more going on but yeah no apparently he uh there are a lot of rumors of who he did and did not sleep with but I believe it's well established that he slept with Samantha and um Yeah, no love lost between these guys.
One of the things that kind of came up in the Twitter threads and Molly's Twitter threads was this, you know, that it's this basket of a bucket of crabs.
I don't know if that metaphor kind of carries across the pond at all.
I think I get the sense of it.
Uh, if you, if you go and you, uh, you know, if you go crabbing and you, and you catch crabs, uh, you put them all in a bucket and, uh, as a way of, they want to climb out of the bucket and escape the bucket and they will collide each other to get out of the bucket.
And then they will drag each other down back to the bucket.
And so this is this is a kind of a common American metaphor, more so on the East Coast than it is in the rest of the country.
But it is it is a known it is a known term phrase.
And they're like, I think we were going to start making T-shirts about this trial that are like, you know, the bucket of crabs, because whenever these guys get the chance to, like, depose each other, they just completely fucked with each other the entire time.
And, you know, I mean, You know, then Richard Spencer got called like a sociopath and like he were like a serial killer.
I think Jason Kessler called him that.
I mean, it's just delightful stuff.
And we also learned who leaked the audio, the audio that Milo had, the terrible We found out that was a guy named Dave Riley who is an alt-right radio host.
and that sort of thing.
We found out that was, that's a guy named Dave Riley, who is a kind of an alt-right radio host.
So that bit of information didn't come out, but it was admitted to on the stand.
So lots of little pertinent details came out.
So I'm really looking forward to actually getting the official transcripts and digging into some of these details because there's a lot that we already know.
And I'm really looking forward to the official versions because I guarantee you, there's a lot of juicy bits there for people who are interested in this kind of material.
So yeah.
Yeah.
If no other value, there is that there is the discovery process to borrow a phrase.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, OK, that's it.
That's it.
Great.
OK, thank you.
That was interesting.
Yeah.
Sorry, it was a little bit disorganized just because we there was a lot to cover and, you know, we just kind of had to play it by ear a little bit.
But Episode 100 is coming up and We've kind of got a bit of a two-parter.
It's actually kind of a three-parter with this one.
I'm kind of talking about kind of various trials and sort of media representations of trials and sort of the way the far right is engaging in this stuff.
And I wanted to do episode 100 and talk about sort of like the The interconnective tissue between sort of like main split kind of right wing mainstream spaces and these kind of ultra far right spaces and the overt Nazi spaces and the way that that's sort of changed over the years.
But ultimately what I really think the best way to demonstrate this is to sort of talk about the Rittenhouse trial and the Wakisha killings.
Yeah.
A man ran over a bunch of, ran over a parade and killed a bunch of people in Waukesha, Wisconsin.
And the way that these events have been used by these far right spaces, but in order to sort of get into the Waukesha stuff and the Renton House stuff and the Ultra far right spaces.
I think it's important to talk about the more like normie side of this first.
And I think the best way to do that is to talk about the media blitz of Kyle Rittenhouse since he won at trial.
And so that's our 100th episode.
It's just going to be talking about Kyle Rittenhouse Before, during, and after the trial.
And I've been doing this, I've been looking at this for about two weeks now, and I trust you, it's more fascinating than it sounds.
Even if we're not going to get into overtly Nazi stuff, it's definitely worth the discussion.
So that's going to be our episode 100, is more Kyle Rittenhouse.
So yay for us.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You know, what a what a lovely subject.
They're all lovely subjects, right?
Yeah, I was going to say, you know, it's not really you can't really be sarcastic about that because, you know, this show.
So, yeah, that'll be along soon enough.
Probably next week, yeah.
Yeah, definitely before the end of the year.
Hopefully we can do two more before the end of the year.
That's what I'd like to see, but we'll see.
Yeah, we will.
We will.
We'll get it done.
Okay.
Well, thanks for listening, everybody.
And that's great.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
That was I Don't Speak German.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the show or found it useful, please spread the word.
If you want to contact me, I'm at underscore Jack underscore Graham underscore, Daniel is at Daniel E Harper, and the show's Twitter is at IDSGpod.
If you want to help us make the show and stay 100% editorially independent, we both have Patreons.
I Don't Speak German is hosted at idonspeakgerman.libsyn.com, and we're also on Apple Podcasts, Soundcloud, Spotify, Stitcher, and we show up in all podcast apps.
This show is associated with Eruditorum Press, where you can find more details about it.
