I Don't Speak German, Episode 17: Holocaust Denial Today
In the second part of our discussion of Holocaust Denial, we take a look at the phenomenon as it exists today. Warnings strongly apply. * Show Notes: Rabbi Recalls COming Face to Face with Shooter at California Synagogue Robert Evans, "Ignore the Poway Synagogue Shooter's Manifesto: Pay Attention to 8chan's /pol/ Board" Suspect of Possible Arson Attack at Escondido Mosque Leaves Note Referencing New Zealand Terrorist Attacks * Holocoaster at Urban Dictionary (2009) Holocoaster meme (text source) Inside the Concentration Camps: Eyewitness Accounts of Life in Hitler's Death Camps (1946): "800 to 900 yards from the place where the ovens were, the prisoners were squeezed into little cars that ran on rails. In Auschwitz these cars had various dimensions and could hold up to 15 people. As soon as a car was loaded, it would be set in motion on an inclined plane that traveled at full speed down a corridor. At the end of the corridor there was a wall, and in the wall was the door to the oven. As soon as the car hit the wall, the door opened automatically, and the car would dip forward and pitch its cargo of living people into the oven. Right behind it came another car with another load, and so on." Holocaster meme (Fun Will Set You Free) Nick Fuentes "How to Make 6 million cookies" * From TDS171 "The ParaStormies Present." Enoch: Plus there's a goal here that's beyond getting fucking views and listens and shit. Sven: Well the goal of getting using listeners is to get that to realize that bigger goal of our political aspirations. Anglin: It's all about the numbers right now and transforming the ability of people to [gap] Certain way and normalizing shit. Yeah basically that's the entire goal is normalizing shit in people's minds. You see this stuff going on in high schools now like we have created a new youth subculture. Yes. Yes. Everything is going according to plan everything is going according to plan. Sven: It doesn't matter who we are. Yeah. Enoch: But for real the the youth the under under 20 demographic is like forget about it. I was talking last night with a friend and we are talking about the Holocaust and what most of it is but how. It's hard to reach people that have had a certain level of programming. So even even people that are like are sympathetic and right wing and like even the idea of like a white state is good. We still have this. They still get all fucked up and weird about talking about the Holocaust. But then when you talk to people that are like under 20 years old they don't give a fuck about the Holocaust. They think it's hilarious. Hitler is funny and cool and the idea of gassing Jews is like just a fucking joke. Yeah like they don't give a shit. They don't care. Anglin: Right. You loaded a culture of complete nihilism and then somehow thought they could insulate themselves from that. Where nothing has any meaning at all. But then they're all in there like but one thing does have meaning. The Holocaust of the 6 million in the gas chambers that they get turned into lampshades. Say it doesn't work. Yeah. Sven: And now the snake is eating its Curly Q sideburns tail. It's funny how it's sort of like once you tell people there's nothing sacred there's nothing holy. But you know what this thing that happened to these Jews in this black and white looking shaky real camera from the 40s that nobody really knows what's going on. Like that's that's the thing. That's what you have to care about. You don't care don't care about anything else. We care about these fucking these fucking Jews in Germany in Eastern Europe in the 40s and that's really important. What why. Why was nothing important. Why the fuck do I give a shit about this bullshit. * "Talking To Antifa and the Left - Bronxblogger, Tim Blake, Kevin Logan and Mike Enoch" (104,556 views currently.) "TDS245 The Racewarski Continues" Roscoe Jones "The Hebrew Connection" "Why are there so many movies of the Shoah? Of the garillions that allegedly died? The Shoah was fiction. Lies and confusion. The Germans had nothing to hide. So we've been told and some choose to believe it. I know it's lies, wait and see. Some day we'll break it, The Hebrew Connection, the white man, my brothers and me. Who said that every kike would be found and round up, and put on a big boxcar? Schlomo just told us that, and we all believed it. Now it has done so much harm. And it's too degrading to just keep stargazing. It's time to unplug the TV." * Himmler Posen Speeches (October 4, 1943): https://www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-human-behavior/himmler-speech-posen-1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posen_speeches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRO04q_lQi4 "I want to also mention a very difficult subject . . . before you, with complete candor. It should be discussed amongst us, yet nevertheless, we will never speak about it in public. Just as we did not hesitate on June 30 to carry out our duty as ordered, and stand comrades who had failed against the wall and shoot them—about which we have never spoken, and never will speak. That was, thank God, a kind of tact natural to us, a foregone conclusion of that tact, that we have never conversed about it amongst ourselves, never spoken about it, everyone . . . shuddered, and everyone was clear that the next time, he would do the same thing again, if it were commanded and necessary. I am talking about the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. [quickly] “The Jewish people is being exterminated,” every Party member will tell you “perfectly clear, it’s part of our plans, we’re eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, a small matter.” [less quickly] And then along they all come, all the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. [mockingly] They say: all the others are swine, but here is a first-class Jew. [a few people laugh] And . . . [audience cough] [carefully] . . . none of them has seen it, has endured it. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 are there or when there are 1000. And . . . to have seen this through and—with the exception of human weakness—to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned. Because we know how difficult things would be, if today in every city during the bomb attacks, the burdens of war and privations, we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and instigators. We would probably be at the same stage as 16/17, if the Jews still resided in the body of the German people." * Columbia Guide to the Holocaust
Before the episode starts, to give you a little warning, we did have some connection problems when we were recording this one.
It's not too bad, but you will hear Daniel, and to a lesser extent myself, cutting out a little bit here and there.
But it's quite listenable, and it doesn't happen very often, just so you know, and bear with it.
OK, on with the episode now.
Right, here we are at episode 17 of I Don't Speak German, the podcast in which I talk to Daniel Harper about the far-right and what he knows about them.
And this is part two of a sort of two-parter that we started last week when we talked about the Errol Morris documentary movie Mr. Death, which is about, I suppose you could say, an old-school Holocaust denier.
And this week we're going to be continuing on the charming topic of Holocaust denial and talking about the more modern Holocaust deniers.
The funny ones, I believe.
Funny in quotes or shall we say three parentheses?
I don't know.
There's not really a joke there.
We're going to talk about the 21st century.
Cutting edge Silicon Valley Holocaust denial.
That's what we're going to be talking about.
Yeah, that's right.
Sadly, though, we do have to take a little detour at the start to talk about the incident at Poway, don't we?
Indeed.
There was another shooting, and I guess, you know, we call this a mass shooting, and typically more than four victims is, you know, kind of the definition for mass shooting.
And there were five victims total, one killed and four injured.
And this is a young man named John Ernest.
He was, or is, 19 years old.
Walked into the Poway Synagogue and, or sorry, there's another name, but there's a synagogue in Poway, California, which is near San Diego, about 20 minutes outside of San Diego.
Walked in and tried to shoot up a place and injured some people and killed one person.
And yeah, it's another really, really terrible thing.
I kind of followed this one in real time.
There was kind of a manifesto that was making the rounds from the poll board on 8chan.
Same as the Christchurch killer.
I read it before it was even confirmed that this was the guy, and I'm like, yeah, this is exactly out of that same playbook.
If anything, I did read this guy's manifesto.
If anything, he's A, less clever and quote-unquote funny.
He's definitely a copycat, a lesser version of the former manifesto, but he definitely sort of quote-unquote corrects the errors of the manifesto as the uh sort of this far-right dissident right violent uh bunch of shithead assholes would believe and that he makes absolutely sure that he really really hates jews like that was one thing like um about the christ church killer
um there was a lot of uh questioning about whether this guy was legit because uh he basically didn't say anything about the jews He was kind of like, yeah, as long as they stay in their country, they're fine.
And that was a bit about it.
But of course, well, anybody who's actually one of our community, I mean, they're just going to be a vicious anti-Semite.
They're going to want to kill all the Jews.
Clearly, that's just the thing that you want to do if you're in our community.
Duh!
The fact that he's not talking about that means it's probably just a CIA guy.
This guy wanted you to know he is not a CIA guy because he talked very very at extreme length about how terrible the Jews were and in fact he goes in and covers a bunch of Bible verses a bunch of stuff basically anything that said badly about the Jews in the Bible he kind of put in the manifesto and he uses a lot of terms that come from a group called a Christian identity or sort of an ideology and
And that connects us right back to Matt Shea, who we talked about last week, who was also connected into that same movement, which makes me think it's probably time for us to do an episode about Christian identity and the militia movement and the white separatists.
So that's probably what we're going to end up doing next week.
That's what's going on with that.
Details are still kind of coming out with this guy, but this is very much a kind of a copycat killer from the Christchurch pattern.
He even tried to do a livestream, but apparently he was such a little dipshit that he forgot to change the settings from private to public, and so he shared the link and nobody could get to it, which is great.
I'm really proud of you guys in the Master Race for being really tech-savvy guys.
It's very nice that this didn't get out there.
I don't know.
I think I spent most of the afternoon or most of the evening yesterday kind of following this and I mean it's it's a You know 2017 we talked about this in the Unite the Right episode 2017 was the kind of the summer of You know rallies about Confederate monuments and torch lit rallies and that sort of thing I'm kind of thinking 2019 is gonna be the summer of shitty white dudes going out and killing people And we can we can kind of get into why that's the case.
I think here in this episode, maybe.
But um, yeah, that's what's going on with that.
I've got a couple links in the show notes so you can kind of read up on that.
There is another really wonderful piece by Robert Evans.
I call it Ignore the Poli-Synecdoche Shooter's Manifesto.
Pay attention to ATN's poll board.
If you are following this material, you should definitely go read that.
So, yeah.
Yeah, I've read that, that's good.
Yeah, that's it, really.
I mean, it's hard to even – I mean, I could go through and I could analyze the manifesto and I could go through and talk about kind of what's in there.
I don't know.
Like it's – to a certain degree, man, there were like live streams on YouTube that I managed to catch where they were kind of talking about it and kind of they honor this guy.
And there's this whole subculture.
I mean, I guess I should say this now.
Since the Christchurch massacre and since the, at least the kind of U.S.
movement has kind of like given up on Trump, The entire movement is moving further and further right.
The entire movement, even from where they were before, is becoming more and more radicalized.
People who are kind of like wishy-washy on, you know, exactly what to call themselves are now kind of openly embracing the term National Socialist.
Groups that kind of thought like, oh well maybe we can, maybe there's a political solution, maybe we can do this, are more and more increasing, you know, maybe it's just time for us to kind of get together and go shoot up the place.
You know, it's just kind of where this thing is going right now.
It's utterly terrifying and my heart goes out to the victims and to the victims that, I mean, I am doing my best to try to explain this and to talk about this and there's literally nothing I can do except I wish I could have told people two years ago to pay attention to this, but that's the best we could do at this point.
I'm not the only one predicting this, but I'm definitely predicting you're going to see a lot more of this going forward.
Certainly over the summer, I think you're going to see Probably four or five of these, honestly, and some violent incident pretty much every weekend.
I think that's what we're looking forward to.
The person who did this attack, or allegedly did this attack, we're pretty sure it's the same guy who wrote the manifesto.
In the manifesto, he claimed, quote-unquote, credit For an arson at an Escondido, California mosque about a week after the Christchurch shooting.
And there was indeed a fire there and I think the authorities are researching that and trying to figure out if that is a legitimate connection.
But he claimed credit for it and in the manifesto he urges other people to Do these things more and more because like hey, they really can't catch you unless they actually catch you in the act So yeah, that's that's where the right wing is right now Yeah, that's really depressing.
Thanks Yeah, I Mean, I don't I'm sorry that I wish I had something more positive to tell you I mean there are people kind of working on de-radicalization there are people who are working with this stuff and I mean it does it does just kind of feel like You know, it's just these guys are just moving further and further to the right.
Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, there's there's a challenge, right?
There's a challenge because taking people, you know, like deplatforming people and taking people out of sort of the realm of political conversation does kind of marginalize their ideas.
It gets them away from people who might otherwise be converted.
But it also means that the people within that sub circle become more and more, you know, they only listen to each other and become more and more radicalized.
And there's just more and more content that only they're consuming.
And that means that in order to sort of keep telling the same jokes, they have to get kind of further and further along in this process and they kind of desensitize themselves to it.
And I think this is a kind of a legitimate question within this world, within this, within, you know, how do we combat this?
Because there are kind of two, um, I mean, I've, I've talked about sort of the mainstream resources, the vanguard, it's about the people that kind of openly advocating violent action versus the people, um, trying to affect political change and, The people from the from the things that I've heard from the people that I've talked to their response to the Christchurch massacre and their response to this I assume once once I once they start kind of putting out their takes on it is going to be something like well
And this is what you get when we don't have a place at the table to have our concerns met.
And by have our concerns listened to, what they mean is we need to put all the brown people on bus cars or something to that effect.
So effectively, they're saying, well, you know, if you're not going to let us just start openly deporting people and discriminating against people, I mean, you're just going to you're just going to see more and more people taking matters into their own hands.
And like, you know, nice society you have there being it would be terrible if someone were to go and start shooting bullets at it.
And this is the way that sort of the mainstreamers and the vanguard is sort of sort of they have a push and pull relationship because they each rely on each other.
The vanguard is to rely on the mainstreamers for sort of political rhetoric and for, you know, sort of an entry into this more and more kind of far right wing radicalization vector.
But the mainstreamers then can kind of, by distancing themselves from the vanguardists, they get to say, well I'm not as far as that guy, I totally disavow that guy, but I understand his concerns and I think if you don't want more of that, you need to listen to what I have to say and maybe make a deal with me instead.
Which is exactly what we've heard people saying after this incident and after Christchurch.
And even people in the kind of relative mainstream people and you know, like, you know, Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens or a lot of those guys are basically saying like, you know, I mean, God, Sam Harris, after the, after the, the killings, the bombings in Syria.
Last week put out a re-released podcast episode about the dangers of Islam where he read some propaganda and took it completely seriously and had no context for any of that.
And he said, yeah, people need to listen to this again.
We need to take care of these people following Islam.
We need to do something about them in our societies.
This is a sick thing and it's just, you know.
Well, it's Sam Harris has always been soft on fascism.
I remember right the way back at the start, you know, in his in his first couple of books, he wrote about how, oh, you know, it's reached such a pass that the only people talking sense about the issue of Islam are the fascists.
And it was always done in this sort of tone of, For horror, you know, like, isn't it terrible that these terrible fascist people are the only people talking sense?
We should be saying the things that need to be said.
But that still amounts to sympathy for fascism, fascist ideas, because he's basically saying they're right.
No, I mean, he's saying, well, you know, I disagree with their methods, but, uh, you know, kind of agree with their, their goals.
I kind of agree with their, you know, their style is vulgar, but, uh, what they're saying is unfortunate.
Sadly, I hate the fact that it's true, but it is.
That's, that's what he's doing right the way back in.
The end of faith and led to a Christian nation.
He was pulling this shit.
Sam Harris.
I mean, the the kind of quote unquote intellectual dark web and Sam Harris in particular are huge enablers of this stuff.
And, you know, Sam Harris is not a Nazi.
I want to be clear about that.
But.
There's probably going to be an episode of the show about Sam Harris in particular.
I've got quite a few bones to pick with him on this matter.
I think it's going to be delightful if we do a whole bunch of episodes about overt Nazis.
And people who are really, really disgusting.
And then one episode on Sam Harris because I know it would really piss him off.
He would whine forever if he ever saw it.
Anyway.
Anyway, so yeah, we'll see if more details come out about that and I have linked to a couple of
Kind of Recent news stories, you know within the last few hours on this in the show notes And so you can you can kind of go and look at that and if any more details kind of come out I will discuss it in the next week or two but but I there's no need to kind of go into this in detail because it really is just a repeat of the Of the Christchurch killing in a lot of ways and everything that I said about leaderless resistance, etc, etc and Yeah, just go check out that episode.
Episode 11 of this podcast, and it pretty much all applies to this.
It's the same thing.
Yeah.
And as Daniel said, our hearts go out to the victims.
Absolutely terrible thing.
Heartbreaking.
But, moving on.
Moving on to something a little bit lighter.
The Holocaust!
Yeah!
The funny Holocaust, apparently.
So that's what we're talking about this week.
We're continuing our discussion of Holocaust denial after last week.
Lucky us and lucky you, and this time we're going to be talking about, you know, fresh, modern, forward-thinking, young, snappy, amusing versions of Holocaust denial, I'm given to understand.
Is that right, Daniel?
Have I got that right?
Well, I mean, it's so...
There are some links that I kind of didn't get to discuss last week in last week's show notes, and there are some videos of Ernst Zundel from the 90s and from the 2000s.
I do recommend – I mean some of those – one of them I linked literally had like 68 views or something at the time that I gave it to you.
So who knows how many people kind of went and looked through or clicked through.
But it is kind of worth kind of going and looking at some of this stuff.
I mean I think Ernst Zundel does have a sort of anti-charm.
I mean he does have a sort of way about him that is likable.
I don't want to, you know, like it's a hard thing, but there is, he does have that kind of like old German man kind of like going bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, you know, and kind of like telling, you know, there, there is something to sort of like about his presentation.
But, uh, these are really old school.
Like a lot of these were like originally VHSs that have been like, kind of like copied over and over again and uploaded to YouTube and put on, put on these random channels.
And there's a ton of video of like Ernst Sundel, like talking and toning kind of regularly into a camera.
Radio Arian, which I think we're going to discuss here in a few weeks, they are desperate for content and they will kind of replay Ernst Zundel's old speeches.
Because what Radio Arian does is they do like six hours of content a day and then they just replay that content four times a day to go to 24 hours.
But they don't actually produce that much content themselves so they either rip it from other people Or they just sort of like play old stuff that they have.
It's a really strange business model.
And then they just kind of release it all in their RSS feed.
So if you are following them, you just have to go and delete a bunch of shit because you've already heard it or don't care.
But they will play old three-hour clips of Ernst Zundel talking about the German Holocaust, which is after the war, all the terrible things that happened to German citizens, usually at the hand of the Jews, but otherwise at the hand of the Germans or the Americans, the Allied forces.
Some of which are valid, but also kind of taken out of proportion.
Use for a overtly genocidal political agenda, so you know it's kind of hard to take it too seriously But if you listen to it, it's completely unlistenable radio.
This is a you know kind of a middle-aged to old-aged German man Zundel's ridiculous.
in really abstract terms about these kind of terrible perfidies.
And unless you're sort of like already involved, invested, emotionally invested in this, it's really hard to take any of it seriously for more than a couple of minutes at a time. - Zundel is ridiculous.
I mean, as you say, he does have a certain sort of joviality, a certain boisterous charm, but he is a ludicrous figure.
Oh, right.
Absolutely.
And it's one thing when he kind of has someone to, like, push against when he's kind of in an interview and he's kind of more combative versus the idea of kind of listening to him talk and talk just on his own.
Back in episode two, I talked about sort of the pain of listening to David Duke's autobiography, which was 40 hours and change long.
Zundel has a lot of, like, I got through the autobiography.
I never listened to more than a few minutes of Ernst Zundel talking by himself.
It's a thing.
It really is really, really difficult listening.
Haven't you read any of his books about how wonderful Hitler was?
Yeah, a book I might actually, like, I would probably be able to get through.
If someone has, like, a bunch of books they want to send me, please, like, give me, you know, we can work that out.
I would be happy to take some reading material off of you, but, you know, listening to the audio is kind of, it's, you know, if I wanted to fall asleep, that would be the way to do that.
So, but what's interesting is that Well, what I find is that modern Holocaust deniers, like the alt-right, what we're going to broadly call this, this kind of white nationalist dissident right, the alt-right, really doesn't do that.
They don't spend a lot of time talking about sort of like the factual details of German history.
They spend a lot of time mocking the Holocaust.
Back in Episode 9, when we were talking about the Daily Shoah, I kind of talked about how the point of the title is not to, it's not to sort of say, oh what we want is a daily holocaust.
The point is to sort of make a pun on the title of the daily show and use the term just to sort of like make fun of the concept of the holocaust, just to sort of push in this direction of Of just kind of like sheer mockery and so I want to I've included a link to this sort of idea Just it's just sort of an example.
Um, there's this thing called the holo coaster.
Have you ever heard of the holo coaster Jack?
I haven't, amazingly.
Okay.
No one else has unless they're sort of involved in this community.
So the idea here is that there was this, like, roller coaster at Auschwitz, which delivered people to their deaths, that there's, like, this, like, persistent myth of this, like, sort of sort of um overwhelming crime that the nazis did of uh taking this like completely impractical contraption and uh like that the jews were kind of like ridden were on this uh like a big contraption and that they were thrown into ovens
and then you know that's like in this sort of like a cartoonish way um what's the origin of this is this actually something people believe or so no actually so i did a little bit of digging into the source of this um and it's it's kind of tough because like from what i understand and i could be wrong on this and people who were sort of following like 4chan meme culture back in the late uh 2000 back in like 2009 um if anybody does kind of have a little bit more depth on this
i would love to kind of get some some perspective But I found a link from Urban Dictionary, and this is like an entry from 2009.
Which defines the holocoaster and it's basically connected to this like meme.
Which I'm going to read.
There's this text from this book, Inside the Concentration Camps, Eyewitness Accounts of Life in Hitler's Death Camps.
Now, the original title was published in 1946, and it was published in French.
It was finally published in English.
It was translated in 1996.
And it's essentially like this Romanian researcher who was working for the Nuremberg trials, collected a bunch of eyewitness accounts.
And then kind of collected them as sort of like a big picture view of like what eyewitnesses said about their experiences in the concentration camps and in the death camps.
And in this couple hundred page book, there is an entry which has only kind of like a name associated, like a first name associated with it.
A lot of these are sort of anonymous things.
And so it has one entry, and I'm going to read you this entry.
800 and 900 yards from the place where the ovens were.
The prisoners were squeezed into little cars that ran on rails.
In Auschwitz, these cars had various dimensions and could hold up to 15 people.
As soon as the car was loaded, it would be set in motion on an inclined plane that traveled at full speed down a corridor.
At the end of the corridor, there was a wall, and in the wall was the door to the oven.
As soon as the car hit the wall, the door opened automatically, and the car would dip forward and pitch its cargo of living people into the oven.
Right behind it came another car with another load, and so on.
So this is Some guy who was a survivor of the camps who told some version of this story to a researcher, to someone who was collecting these narratives.
We have no idea, was this guy just under starvation?
Was this a hallucination?
The people who suffered in these camps were under such physical and emotional and mental stress that it's hard to Uh, imagine that some of them didn't just snap under the pressure, right?
But this is one paragraph that is, that no one with any sort of, like, historical knowledge has ever taken seriously.
Like, no one else believes this.
I had never heard of this, like, holocaust-er thing until, uh, I started following the far- and so I started following the alt-right, like, a couple years ago.
So...
From this story, there was a meme around 2009.
It was sort of based on like the Roller Coaster Tycoon sort of series of games.
And so they're just sort of like doing this thing of like, oh, the holo coaster.
So there's like a meme that's like the Gates of Auschwitz with like a loop-de-loop roller coaster thing kind of going over it.
And it's just kind of like it's edgy, funny, kind of like whatever.
It's dark humor.
If that's all it is, I mean, it's not my thing, but, like, okay, like, itchy teenagers on the internet.
But this becomes, in the minds of the people who are involved in this community, it has become this thing that everybody that, like, the people who believe in the Holocaust, people who believe the Holocaust is real, must necessarily believe that this is, like, something that's, like, deeply invested in scholarship.
And so when you make fun of this thing of how ridiculous it is, suddenly you use that as a way of discrediting the entire concept of millions of people being killed systematically by, like, Hitler's Germany.
And so, basically what they do is go, oh yeah, you believe in the Holocaust?
Like, the Holocaust-er?
Womp womp.
And then suddenly, like, hypothetically you and I are supposed to defend this thing that no serious person with any degree of import has ever believed.
So, I've included a link to the book, I've included a link to one of the memes, and I've included a link to the text in an image form from 2009, and to the Know Your Meme on this, so you can kind of look and see what this looks like.
But this gets mentioned over and over and over again in these podcasts and in these text chats.
Whenever the Holocaust is brought up the Holocauster.
Oh, there's another story That's like there's a masturbation machine From like some like thoroughly discredited source for like the Jews had like semen extracted from them by some mechanical process Which you know some guy lied about his experience in the death camps or something You know like no serious scholar takes any of this seriously.
No one has actually studied this and for more than five minutes takes any of this seriously and yet this is the thing that gets used to discredit the entire idea.
This is one example of sort of the like, they don't discredit the Holocaust by saying, oh, the chimneys aren't in the right position or like that.
I mean, they do some of that, but mostly what they do is just laugh at it.
They just sort of say, oh, this is ridiculous, clearly false, et cetera, et cetera.
I can give you another example here.
There's a song.
I've been criticized by our fascist listeners for putting too much credit in these songs for like, oh, I'm offended by the songs and therefore I put a... You know, they're offensive, but like it doesn't really bother me.
This is just like highlighting like the the humor that you guys use.
That you're using humor in terms of forcing your political ideals on the rest of the world.
So this is from a guy named Roscoe Jones, who is TRS The Right Stuff and The Daily Show affiliated.
He is the main host of a show called Exodus Americanus.
And this is from a song called The Hebrew Connection.
This is done to the tune of The Rainbow Connection, which is the Jim Henson, Kermit the Frog, Muppet movie thing.
And so I'm not going to do it in tune because that's horrifying, but this gives you a sense.
And there is a slur in this and I apologize, but I want to read it as is.
Why are there so many movies of the Shoah?
Of the guerrillas that allegedly died?
The Shoah was fiction.
Lies and confusion.
The Germans had nothing to hide.
So we've been told, and some choose to believe it.
I know it's lies.
Wait and see.
Someday we'll break it.
The Hebrew connection.
The white man, my brothers, and me.
Who said every kike would be found and round up and put on a big box car?
Shlomo just told us that and we all believed it.
Now it has done so much harm.
And it's too degrading to just keep stargazing.
It's time to unplug the TV.
They don't.
They're not using logic.
They're not using evidence.
They don't care about logic and evidence.
They're making fun of it.
They're making it into a thing that is laughable within this community of young white guys, some of them as young as like 13, 14 years old.
And so it's just biasing the whole thing against this entire idea that this might be real.
It's turning it into a joke specifically to remove any sense of weight from these allegations, from this real historical event, which is Clearly and obviously true.
I have I have another quote I'm just gonna read to you which demonstrates this which I found I was kind of re-listening to some stuff.
A 2017 episode, a July 2017 episode of The Daily Show called The Parastormies Present.
This is episode 171.
Parastormies present.
This is episode 171.
Mike Enoch.
Plus there's a goal here that's beyond getting fucking views and listens and shit.
He's talking about the popularity of the podcast.
At this point, prior to Unite the Right, this whole movement was singing to go kind of up and up and up.
Unite the Right was supposed to be this thing that was really going to bring millions of people onto their cause.
Failed utterly, go check out episode three.
So, this is at their, sort of like, as they're sort of growing.
So, Enoch is saying, plus there's a goal here that's beyond getting fucking views and listens and shit.
Sven, this is Jesse.
Well, the goal of getting listeners is to get to... The poll of us getting... Sorry, the text is weird.
It's okay.
Well, the goal of getting listeners is to get that to realize that the bigger goal of our political aspirations... Andrew Anglin, he's the guy who runs the Daily Stormer.
We will do an episode about him.
Anyway, he was guesting on this episode.
It's all about the numbers right now, and transforming the ability of people to- and then there's a gap because audio was shitty- a certain way of normalizing shit.
Yeah, basically that's the entire goal, is normalizing shit in people's minds.
You see this stuff going on in high schools now, like we've created a new youth subculture.
Yes.
Yes.
Everything is going according to plan, everything is going according to plan.
Sven, it doesn't matter who we are!
Yeah.
Enoch.
But for real, the youth, the under 20 demographic is like forget about it.
I was talking last night with a friend and we were talking about the Holocaust and what most of it is but how it's hard to reach people that have had a certain level of programming.
Meaning like the public schools and the Jews are programming it.
So even even people that are like sympathetic and right-wing like even the idea of like a white state is good We still have this they still get all fucked up and weird about talking about the Holocaust But then when you talk to people that are like under 20 years old and they don't give a fuck about the Holocaust They think it's hilarious Hitler is fun ...funny, and cool, and the idea of gassing Jews is, like, just a fucking joke.
Yeah, like, they don't give a shit.
They don't care.
Anglin.
Right.
You loaded a culture of complete nihilism and then somehow thought they could insulate themselves from that, where nothing has any meaning at all.
But then they're all in there like, but one thing that does have meaning, the holocaust of the six million in the gas chambers that they get turned into lampshades.
Say, it doesn't work.
Yeah.
Sven.
And now the snake is eating its curly-Q sideburns tail.
Enoch.
Oh, sorry, this is Anglin.
It's funny how it's sort of like once you tell people there's nothing sacred, there's nothing holy.
But you know what this thing that happened to the Jews in this like black and white looking cheeky real camera from the 40s that nobody really knows what's going- Sorry, this is Enoch, so cut that a little bit.
This is Enoch.
It's funny how it's sort of like, once you tell people there's nothing sacred, there's nothing holy.
But you know what this thing that happened to these Jews and this black and white looking shaky real camera from the 40s that nobody really knows what's going on.
Like, that's the thing.
That's what you have to care about.
You don't care about anything else.
We care about these fucking Jews in Germany and Eastern Europe in the 40s and that's really important.
But why?
Why was nothing important?
Why the fuck do I give a shit about this bullshit?
This is them admitting.
We use humor to make the Holocaust a joke.
Now, they don't believe in the Holocaust.
They think it isn't real.
But they're not interested in the sort of debating with people who actually are experts on this shit.
They're not interested in, like, talking about facts.
They turn it into a joke.
They feed this to people as young as 13.
Andrew Anglin has said many, many times that his audience for The Daily Stormer is 13-year-olds.
They're literally going in with people who are barely old enough to begin to understand this stuff, and they're poisoning their brains.
With actively genocidal propaganda to pretend that this thing that everybody knows is actually real didn't happen specifically to poison them so that by the time they get to school by the time they are Learning real history about this that they will think it's just a joke.
Well, duh Stupid teacher still believes in the Holocaust.
That's the way this is working these days.
That's literally what they're doing.
Mm-hmm And when they do this to some of these kids, the kid who shot up the synagogue in Poway, 19 years old, he was probably invested in this stuff back in the Gamergate era.
Like, we don't know the details yet, who knows?
But, this movement is like 4 or 5 years old.
He was one of these guys, who I guarantee was deeply invested in these gaming communities or whatever, and this is the result we get from it.
Yeah, give me the child, I'll give you the man, as they say.
Right.
Which is a classic fascist tactic.
The Nazis, the classic old time Nazis knew that they had to get the kids.
They went straight for the kids.
It's a very old fascist tactic.
Well, and what they see is that actually all these white boys have been, I mean, they're interested in boys, let's be honest about it.
Because women can't think for themselves, they're just, you know, whatever.
But they are deeply interested in reaching these young white men.
Because they feel like in their warped little like fucking perspective the Jews have subverted their minds already from the time that they're young and that they have like this whole bit that England says and there's a longer clip that I'm gonna include in the show notes so you can listen to the whole thing I just didn't want to read the whole thing and I didn't want to have to transcribe it But they go into more and more this sort of idea that
That this sort of quote unquote jewish subversion of the broader society that that you know the jews are already like influencing people as kids that there you know the drag queen story hours and that sort of thing that all of this is trying to reach out to children and that like what they're doing is trying to reverse that programming there that they see it as the sense of like what we're trying to do is to do the same thing again that like.
You've taken away what we consider sacred like the traditional family or you know a well-ordered Society or like that gay people shouldn't exist and that like gender is a binary etc, etc And what we're gonna do is take your myth quote-unquote myth this sort of psychic idea of the Holocaust and that this thing is something that matters to you and we're gonna take that and we're gonna subvert that the same way that you've made the Catholic Church a joke or you know, whatever and so they see it as they are
subverting the subversion in a way that they're using the same techniques one of the things that fascinates me or like kind of used to fascinate me but i've just kind of gotten used to it but as i've like started talking about it it's kind of kind of gotten more and more interesting to me is the degree to which they are trying to defend this like sort of like traditional society this this this very kind of quote-unquote rigid um you know kind of based on like high ideals and aesthetics and the sort of like openly fascistic um idea and they're trying to use that
um and what they're trying to do to to uh to make that happen is uh embracing like the most like hardcore kinds of post-modernism in a weird way they're they're using this sort of like post-modern like kind of hyper real uh online reality this sort of idea that there is that that there is no difference between the signifier and the signified that's This meme culture, meme magic, remaking the world through influencing people's ideas, which is this kind of deeply postmodern thing.
They're trying to use that.
They're using that technique as a way of enforcing this completely artificial aesthetic ideal of masculinity and ethno-nationalism and whatever.
And so in a lot of ways, in a very real way, they're giving away the falsity of the thing that they're doing with the techniques that they're using to do it.
Yeah, it's a huge topic and I don't want to sidetrack us, but there was always a core of the reactionary to that sort of postmodernism.
But yeah, it's like they've distilled Holocaust denial down to its basic essence.
Which is not disbelief so much as just lack of interest in the truth or untruth of it.
And the point of the exercise isn't to argue that it didn't happen, really.
That's not really what's happening.
The point of the exercise is to degrade the issue.
To devalue it.
To trivialise it.
To make it into nothing.
So that it stops being in their way.
Like, you know, like US elites talked about the Vietnam Syndrome.
Um, you know, part of the part of the aim of the people that organized the war on terror was to neutralize the Vietnam syndrome.
They're trying to get around the enormous cultural weight of the Holocaust.
Which is in their way politically, just as the Vietnam Syndrome, you know, the American people's reluctance to commit to ground wars.
That's what that refers to.
It was in the way of the neocons.
In very much the same way, the enormous cultural weight and cultural awareness of the Holocaust is in their way politically.
So it's truth or untruth.
It's historicity or it's non-historicity.
It's kind of, to them, it's irrelevant.
They, you know, they will say they don't believe it.
To what extent that belief is sincere or to what extent it stems directly from just what they you know unfilteredly what they want to believe it doesn't interest me really.
Because that's fundamentally their attitude they don't care one way or the other that when they say it didn't happen that's not an actual statement of what they think about historical fact.
It's an expression of their lack of interest in it on a moral level.
It's in their way.
And what they're trying to do isn't to argue that it didn't happen, not really.
What they're trying to do is to devalue it, to neutralize the issue.
And that was always what old-fashioned Holocaust denial was about.
Under the surface, under the hood, it wasn't about, you know, quibbling over historical issues.
It was about Trying to neutralize the Holocaust is an issue because it was in their way politically and it's like they've cut out the middle the middle layer of fake academic journals and arguments about how much coke you'd need to burn X number of bodies.
They've cut that out completely, that aspect of it, and they've just gone straight for the devaluation.
It's like they're assuming all that discussion in the middle about facts and figures and so on.
They're assuming that's happened.
They're assuming it's been done.
They're assuming that's been won in their favor.
It's now established it didn't happen, so we can move on to the laughing about how silly people are for believing it stage.
they've just skipped over it so they really have just distilled the entire thing down to and then of course they have the added thing where when they're laughing about it um if they need to they can always say well it's just a joke um well you know yeah what you joke about reveals what you think you know if you're laughing at something about the holocaust not being true that reveals the the you know jokes need shared assumptions in order to make sense so you know in order to be communicated so when you joke about it you're revealing your shared assumptions
Well, and when you say, like, oh, it's just a funny joke, I mean, like, sort of the holocoaster meme, you know, as I sort of, like, presume it existed in 2009, it's sort of about, like, sort of just a juxtaposition between the seriousness of the Holocaust and, you know, kind of the silliness of a video game, of a, you know, of a child's video game about making roller coasters.
But it's really just their version of the soap thing, isn't it?
Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but it probably isn't the case that the Nazis actually made Jewish corpses into soap.
That is something that a lot of people have heard and a lot of people have believed, and it happens to almost certainly not be true.
There's a complicated history there.
I can give you the show notes, but it does appear that it did not happen on an industrial scale.
There were some experiments made that sort of went in that direction.
Parts of Jewish bodies that were taken... Okay, this is going to get super dark here.
Dark even for this podcast.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't remember the details but there was a laboratory.
There was a small kind of processing plant where they were taking human fat which appeared to be from some Jewish people and were making some kind of limited production soap out of it.
It does not appear that that was ever kind of used in wide scale.
There were sort of rumors and then rumors of rumors, and there were some kind of deep – like the lettering on the soap was misinterpreted as being from Jewish bodies, but it tended to be – it was just from whatever factory was making it.
I forget the details I don't have in front of my head.
Same thing with the lampshades.
It does appear that there may have been one or two lampshades that were made out of human skin, and certainly the Nazis were sort of collecting human skin.
But sort of like using – it wasn't put into large-scale industrial production.
And then the deniers will say, well, the Jews tell this story, which is just meant to – they call blood libel.
It's a blood libel against white people.
The Holocaust is a blood libel against white people Think about think about how terrible a person you have to be to use this thing the blood libel, which was originally a stereotype about Jewish tradition about like Consuming the blood of infants of Gentile infants as part of their like Passover and part of that part of their religious tradition.
Yeah, imagine anti-semitic slur.
Imagine trying to take that and use it in a way that is attacking the quote-unquote myth of the Holocaust.
That's one of those things that just really took my breath away when I heard that that's the degree they were.
It doesn't surprise me, but it really was one of those things of like, wow, you people are terrible.
I occasionally run into that.
When they were pushing that particular me, like, oh my god, that was a moment for me.
When I heard they were, when they were pushing that particular me, like, oh my God, that was, uh, that was a moment for me.
So like, I want to be clear, very little about this stuff upsets me.
Again, I know we have fascist listeners and they say, oh yeah, yeah, you're just offended by what we- I'm not offended by you.
You're stupid and you believe horrible things and you're pushing a horrible ideology.
I'm not entertained by you.
I'm listening and I'm talking about you because I think you're dangerous and because It's the goal of any right-thinking society to reject your ideas.
And most people won't consume your content.
But I have.
And that's why we're here.
That's what we're doing here.
I just want to be clear.
The goal is to elucidate what you believe to people who don't listen to you.
That's the goal.
Anyway.
Yeah.
My point by raising the soap thing was just to say, you know, old-style Holocaust deniers constantly went on about the soap.
Because it was one of those things that lots of people believed.
The Nazis turned Jews into soap.
And it's kind of mostly a myth.
As you've discussed, there is some historical basis for it.
But to the extent that people talked about it, it was kind of not right.
And yet still people believed it.
So the Holocaust deniers used that as an in, as an opportunity.
So they would say, oh, that's not true, that's a myth.
And of course, if they can show that one thing that people believed didn't happen, then the implication is that none of it happened.
And this Holocaust thing is just their modern version of that, isn't it?
It's just the same technique again.
And like, as you say, the blood libel thing, that is beyond obscene, what they've done there.
But it's the entire strategy in a capsule, isn't it?
Because it's turning the worst thing that's in their way against us, against the rest of us, against the Jews.
And turning it around and making it a weapon in their hands.
Or trying to, anyway.
Yeah, I mean, it's very much the thing that I discussed with Samantha Kuttner in episode 13, the Darvo Deny.
Um, sorry, I don't have it in front of me, but like this, this idea of like what you do is you reverse the victim offender.
You just take whatever weapon that your enemy has against you and you turn it around psychologically and say, no, this is the thing you're doing to me.
Um, this is, this happens over and over and over again.
And it's absolutely endemic to this kind of like concept of Holocaust denial.
I think not unrelatedly, that is what, um, narcissistic abusers do to people that they have in their clutches as well, by the way.
Absolutely.
And I really want to say this at this moment, that the people who listen to this material, the kids who sort of fall into this, Are very much victims of the people at the top of this chain, you know?
Mike Enoch and Richard Spencer and Andrew Anglin, regardless of how much of this they believe or don't believe or whatever, like what they're doing is they're creating a little army of people that they pour this poison into, and I believe that these people are open propaganda.
Certainly, I think Anglin and Enoch, I can pretty much guarantee that Mike Enoch isn't just an open propagandist, that he admits to being a propagandist.
That like his goal is to sort of push certain ideas, certain memes into people's heads and that to sort of change the political direction that way.
And then when these kids go out and they do terrible things, they get cut off from this.
James Alex Fields, the young man who killed Heather Heyer, who ran into a crowd of counter protesters and injured 19 people and killed one.
One person from the alt-right showed up at his trial for one day, and that's Greg Conte, who's like Richard Spencer's, like, rich yacht club buddy, bullshit artist, former, like, I think high school basketball coach or something like that.
It's like this disgusting little fucking man.
He was the one person who showed up just so he could write one article about this thing.
They get no support from the larger community.
If you go out and do this bullshit, if you go out, And do terrible things, and you go out and beat on people.
You are not going to get support from your community.
They might give you some money.
You know, fascists have money.
These are overall wealthier people than those of us on the left.
And they'll throw some money into your jail accounts, into your commissary accounts.
But you are not going to get support.
Emotional, physical support in the way that you think you are.
You are not going to be honored.
You are going to be forgotten.
These are deep pieces.
I can tell you, and I can tell you, As a person on the left who follows the stuff and who talks to people, I get enormous warmth and support from other people who are also doing this every day.
Yeah.
You should come and join us on the left.
You really should.
If you're worried about your economic prospects, if you're worried about not being able to make it in this society, if you're worried about the future of yourself and your progeny, you should not be a fascist.
You should be a socialist.
I'm just putting it out there.
Yeah, and not a national socialist, because that's not socialism.
No, because that's the opposite of socialism.
I think we need to do an episode about that in the future.
Sorry, I hate to kind of keep bringing it up, but it is worth kind of saying out loud to these people that, like, if you're listening to my voice, listen to what I'm saying and not what the liars are telling you I'm saying.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I mean, I'm far from blind to the failings of the left.
You know, the left can be, believe me, believe me, the left can be a bunch of assholes, right?
They really can.
We really can.
But compared to the fash, We are fucking pussy cats these are deeply cynical unpleasant selfish people they they do not give a fuck about you and they will drop you at a moment's notice without us without the slightest compunction if you become even slightly inconvenient to them.
They will use you for everything you've got, and then they will raise money for themselves, but then not actually support you in that effort.
And there are people who've raised thousands and tens of thousands of dollars whining about James Alex Fields, and I'm willing to bet that none of that made it to him or his family.
That would be my guess.
No, because at bottom it's a fucking con, the whole thing's a financial con.
Um, to, to a great extent, that's the case anyway.
Um, I do wonder what, you know, I spend a lot of time wondering how much these people really believe what they say they believe.
And I think that the answer to that is that to, to these people believe just means something different.
You know, it, it just means, um, to, to be absolutely certain of whatever it is you need to be absolutely certain of for your convenience at any given moment.
And I think one day you and I are going to talk about the George Orwell novel, 1984, which I'm fascinated by.
And, you know, again, it's one of those novels that everybody's heard of, but nobody's read and people think they know what it's about and they don't.
There's a thing in that about how the party, it praises people who just talk completely opportunistically and completely cynically, who talk from the throat, not from the brain.
There's a phrase in Newspeak, the invented language in the book, duck speak, and it's a compliment.
If you're a duck speaker, if you just quack like a duck with no thought put into it whatsoever, it's a compliment because it means that you're just spouting cliches.
You're just spouting stuff you've learned by rote, and that means you're orthodox.
You're saying the right stuff because it's not coming from your brain, your independent thinking.
It's just coming from this vocabulary they've taught you, and that's good.
Because the party's whole ideology in that is that, you know, it is morally and politically good to just do that.
And I think that's what these people think.
Well, I've got a link here to little Nicky Boy Fuentes, who we covered very amusingly in a previous episode.
There's a link to a video, which is, let me see if I got the link here.
How to Make 6 Million Cookies.
This is from that Nick Fuentes Clips account, which, again, it's so delightful that people are just clipping all the worst bits of Nick Fuentes so I don't have to follow him that much anymore.
Yeah, thank you.
We're obliged to you.
You were doing anti-fascist work for us, thank you.
So it's a clip called How to Make Six Million Cookies, and it just kind of goes along with all this stuff about kind of using humor.
And Fuentes is himself – he's 20 or 21 at this point, and so he's very much in that same kind of radicalized online and just sort of – so sort of a super chat on his show.
And somebody asked him, like, Nick, how do you make six million cookies?
And then he goes into – it's echo.
Well, how would the ovens be?
Like, you know, there might only be, like, 15 ovens, and they might only be on, what, four sites?
And, like, oh, well, how could you possibly make six million if it takes so long to do each one?
And this is completely this, like, myth that the ovens of burning, like, human bodies, of incinerating dead Jews, but mostly Jewish people, ...in ovens is, uh, runs along the exact properties that a modern-day crematorium burning one body at a time has to run by, with its, you know, up-and-down cycle, and it takes so long, and like, no!
Again, this gets really, really dark, and I apologize, but...
How did they keep the ovens running they were literally like stoking the ovens with the previously burned bodies yes they were just shoving them into this like hole and keep burning and burning and burning and then to shovel out the ash at the end of the day and put it in a pit.
Last week we were talking about the Irving libel trial and this is one of the things Irving did Irving tried to quibble over how could you possibly burn that much body with a small amount of coke.
That was delivered to the and he had i think it was actually young van pelt who mentioned last week who was on the stand and it had to be explained to everything that human corpses are themselves fuel.
Yeah.
I mean, and Irving, good place to mention Irving.
Again, last week I linked to some videos with David Irving, where you can kind of go watch him.
And what was funny in kind of watching, particularly that first part, the first part of four, is the degree to which Irving really sounded like an alt-right podcaster to me when I watched it the first time.
Because he literally, you know, he opens up with a joke.
And the joke that he has is something to the effect that, while I was driving down here, and this is in like 1985 or 1986, I was driving down here and Simon Wiesenthal was driving next to me and like made a face at me.
You know, I saw him and I was scared because he had such an ugly face.
And this is very much like an alt-right joke.
And then he says, like, well, what do you expect from a man who's named Weasel?
You know?
Again, with no sort of attempt to take Wiesenthal seriously, to deal with anything that he said.
No, you just sort of dehumanize him.
You just turn him into this big joke.
um irving then kind of goes on and he starts talking about all the terrible things that happened to the germans in world war ii and churchill was a monster and etc etc etc and then towards the end he literally starts making he literally starts talking about south africa which at the time south africa was under like horrifying was under sanctions because of the like horrifying treatment of uh of black people and during apartheid and And there was this kind of pressure campaign against South Africa.
And he starts talking about African soldiers.
And how stupid they are and how they have funny accents and how they're untrained and it's because they're just stupid because they have low IQs and it's literally like David Irving.
You would have been an alt-right podcaster if that had been a thing in 1986.
It is straight up the exact same thing.
It sounds exactly like these people and I mean it just.
Yeah, it's the same old shit over and over again.
It's just the venue changes and suddenly they have a giant audience because podcasting allows them to reach tens or hundreds of thousands of people.
Yeah.
It's the same old shit over and over again.
I mean, I don't really know what Irving Standing is these days.
Does he get invited on podcasts or YouTube shows?
So this guy, Mark Weber, who's the current head of the IHR, the Institute for Historical Review, Which i feel bad we didn't really didn't discuss that more but it's sort of it's sort of fit in the it's sort of.
Also the cracks of the sort of the two things that we're doing these episodes maybe we'll do another.
I don't know down the line we might do another one of these and we'll talk about it more detail mark weber who's again going go and read lipstick.
Yeah, go and relish that, definitely.
It's just, you know, it turns out that I'm not an expert on World War II or the Holocaust, and in case you haven't noticed, the reason for that is that I, like Lüchter, do not speak German.
In case, like, it might have escaped your knowledge or your notice in this podcast.
I told you all this was a clever title.
Now you're all starting to see it.
I'm glad.
So, Mark Weber of the Institute for Historic Review, he shows up as a kind of regular commenter on the Political Cesspool podcast.
That sounds nice.
Which I talked about in episode eight.
Although rarely do they talk about, they don't talk, that show in particular, really they don't talk about the Holocaust.
I mean, the closest they got was one time, James Edwards talked about You know, however you feel about the Holocaust and whether it happened or not, really the important thing is that it's not nearly as large a crime against humanity as the millions and millions of babies that have been aborted in the U.S.
since Roe v. Wade.
And that's the closest he's gotten in my hearing of directly confronting this thing.
They talk about the Jews and Jewish power and all that sort of thing.
I think being on terrestrial radio They tend to shy away from that topic.
Oh, he only said that because of all the power that the Jews have in society.
No, it's because, like, when you start talking about the Jews and the Holocaust didn't happen and, like, maybe Jewish power and influence, you sound more like a Nazi than when you say that about, like, Muslims or brown people or, like, Mexicans or whatever.
But I don't differentiate between those things because I understand what you're really doing.
But the normies, the normies definitely understand a lot more when you talk about the Jews.
They go, oh, that sounds bad.
I actually might actually hate Muslims, but I get to pretend that that's different than hating Jews.
No, it's all the same thing.
I understand this, and if you're lying about me not knowing this, you're the bullshit artist.
Anyway, so Mark Webber will show up on that Political Accessible podcast.
Pretty regularly, mostly just talking about current events.
Oh yeah, this is this guy from this respected historical organization.
And we're just going to talk about current events and what's Trump up to, etc, etc.
Hey, go check out the IHR when you're done.
And learn more about how the Holocaust didn't happen.
That's pretty much the strategy on that show.
So, no, I haven't seen Irving be brought on to any of this stuff.
But his work absolutely informs the larger community.
And I've seen people recommend his books pretty regularly.
They'll say, oh yeah, check out David Irving on this.
But it's such sort of the baseline, just accepted thing within this world that I think they don't feel the need to kind of bring him on all that often.
Or ever, really.
I don't know.
Now I want to go look and see if he's ever been brought on any of these shows, but not as far as I've seen, no.
I was just wondering, really, if he hadn't screwed his pooch so badly with trying to sue Lipstadt and Penguin Books and the libel trial and the disastrous judgment against him.
I was just wondering, sort of, in an alt-universe where he'd been sensible and he hadn't done that, if he'd now be, you know, invited on Sam Harris's podcast along with Douglas Murray, you know?
Yeah, or Charles Murray.
Charles Murray, sorry, that's who I meant, yeah.
I mean, Douglas Murray has also been on Sam Harris' podcast, so you know.
Yeah, no, it's one of those things.
Also, another thing I'm just going to highlight here since you mentioned the libel suit.
Mike Enoch literally claims that Lipstadt sued Irving.
He's said that multiple times.
Oh yeah, Debra Lipstadt, she sued Irving and won.
No, Irving sued Lipstadt and lost terribly because he's wrong.
He's wrong.
He's lying.
He's been officially adjudicated as lying.
Yeah, and that wasn't, yeah, the judge didn't just decide, that was after acres and acres of testimony, evidence, proving he's a liar.
Yeah, he's definitely a liar, and not just, like, mistaken, he's an active liar.
That's the thing that's going on there.
You know, another thing, I'm just gonna bring this up one more, just a very brief thing here, you know, and I'm sorry to make this about Mike Enoch, but he's such a liar on this topic, and he's such a bullshit artist, and he has taught incessantly about the fucking Holocaust, using exactly this logic, and I know, again, some TRS fans, and I might as well just, like, have Enoch said, like, oh, well, the Wikipedia page for the Holocaust, you know, it has basically no references, and it's full of citation needed, Not true.
I checked it right before we started recording.
I check it every couple of months just to check in on it.
I've never found a citation needed on the page for the Holocaust, and currently that page has a little bit under 500 references, most of which are to either full-length books or academic texts, and it has a complete book list with more than 100 titles on it.
So, the idea that this is not super well documented is complete bullshit.
And again, who's lying to you and who's not?
You can go to Texas.
Also, there are more sources than Wikipedia.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
That's just a baseline-like thing.
That's just an open lie.
Yeah.
That, like, one of the leaders of this movement is telling you, because he thinks you're not going to check, I think you should check!
Go find a citation needed on the Wikipedia Holocaust page right now.
I'd love to see it.
The thing is, when somebody does that, when somebody lies to you about something that you can check, you can look up for yourself, they're doing it because they're assuming you're not going to.
And that means that they're assuming that you're a gullible rube who wants to be fooled.
So when Mike Enoch lies to you like that, he's insulting you, you know?
He wants you to... He's a propagandist.
He's a liar.
He's trying to get you to follow his... He thinks you're not going to check.
He thinks you're just going to believe his lies about the rest of the world.
And he wants you to be further and further under his warm security blanket of the ideology he espouses.
So, you know, hey!
Again, which one of us is providing links to things?
Why not not do that and have some self-respect instead?
One of the most depressing things in Richard Evans' book that we mentioned last week as well, Telling Lies About Hitler, is when he goes through the press reactions to the trial.
I was literally sort of Fuming and walking around in circles kicking things to make myself calm down i was so angry reading that bit because the level of fucking fatuous ignorance on display from the british press.
In that section it's just infuriating and let you know if you made me think of it because you said about how he not says.
Let's start soothing loads of people writing columns about the the event at the time in major.
Daily newspapers made the same mistake you know so that's not strictly relevant i just wanted to mention it because it's just it's just it's just the sort of like the the way that you know the press just doesn't i mean you know.
I have sympathy i know journalists i know enough journalists that i have sympathy for people who's.
Job it is to put out like factual information every day in a place where like Thousands or billions of people are going to consume it and with it with the sort of time pressures, etc That does seem like to be a fairly basic fact that it would be nice if sort of professional news organizations could get right Yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit I mean, we're not talking about jobbing journos here.
We're talking about fucking columnists, you know, right?
Well columnists are actually I have I have a Yeah, the...
People who haven't left their desk in, you know, 20 years.
That's kind of where columnists usually are.
That's a byway though.
I'd like to, there are a couple of the things I'd like to get to here.
Just to kind of move on.
Again, I really didn't want this to be like a fully like daily show focused episode, but again it's just very easy to sort of like pull up the clips of this stuff and they talk about it often enough that it's, and they're important enough that it's worth kind of making this kind of focus on them.
Mostly because they're like kind of very easy references I can provide.
So many of these other shows will do this, but it's a little bit more like a little two-minute segment or whatever.
So back in episode 9 when I talked about, you know, like in the Daily Show, I talked about this video which came out during the sort of the YouTube Bloodsports era.
This is like early 2018.
And this was, there was a show, Warski Live.
which ends up becoming sort of like the biggest live streaming thing on YouTube for a while.
And they were bringing on all kinds of various political perspectives, all the way from the center-right to overt national socialism.
You know, very varied political perspectives, with the occasional, you know, sort of leftist or sort of center-left person sort of included.
And I did mention this video talking to Antifa on the left from Bronx Blogger, Tim Blake, Kevin Logan, and then Mike Enoch.
And I talked about this on episode 9.
As of the time of this recording, or as of when I looked at it, this video had 104,556 views, by the way.
And there's a link to it in the show notes, so you can be one more on to that if you want to watch the whole thing.
Um, so, after this video was recorded, after this sort of, like, debate, which, um, everyone who was watching agreed that Mikey and Ike won because, like, no one else on the show had done any particular work to understand who Mikey and Ike was ahead of time, and so he was able to run circles around them, because debating isn't about factual accuracy, um, and isn't, like, a forum for, like, actually exploring this stuff, um, Andy Warsky appeared on the, uh, the Daily Show-Up!
And I included a link to this.
We will be talking again.
I was re-listening to this today.
We will be talking again about this episode because there is so much bullshit in this.
It is such an instructive thing.
There's a link to this if you do want to listen to an episode of The Daily Show.
Episode 245 called The Race Warski Continues might not be a bad one to listen to because it is very instructive about how very stupid right-leaning young men like Andy Warski can be completely enveloped in this world.
Um, because he agrees with all the sort of basic premises that SJWs are evil and that black people are kind of stupid and race and IQ and all this stuff, but like, oh, but like, what are we gonna do?
Like, ethno-nationalism, that just seems icky and mean.
It's like, well, yeah, we're maybe gonna be mean, but...
What?
Alternative to this and so he just sort of nods and then towards the end he talks about the Holocaust and he presents Enoch presents and and J.O.
and J.O.
De La Rey, our anti-Iraq exterminationist.
We'll come back to that in a second.
Again, go listen to episode 9.
There should probably be a link to that in the show notes.
You should listen to that one before listening to this one because anyway.
They start talking about the Holocaust and Andy Warsky being a young man.
He's a Canadian young man who Never really thought too hard about it, you know?
This is a kind of comic tactic that Enoch uses in terms of convincing people to his position.
And he doesn't give you the full perspective.
He's just like, look, what do you think of when you think about the Holocaust?
You think about gas chambers.
And then, you know, Warski sound like, oh, yeah, yeah, no gas chamber.
And it's like, well, and then so, you know, oh, the the the things are disconnected and like how do they run them so long and all those sort of like easily debunked things again.
Go look at the last episode of those links to 66 questions and answers about the Holocaust and the Holocaust controversies, Twitter arguments.
They're all completely debunked in those two things.
So I'm not going to do it here, but it's the very.
Basic, easily debunked, easily nonsense things that Enoch points out.
And Warski's response is like, wow, I never heard about this before.
This is just, you're blowing my mind here, man.
And yeah, we should get somebody on my show to debate this.
Let's expose this to hundreds of thousands of viewers.
That would be the thing we should do.
This is how the Useful Idiot is the Useful Idiot.
And I hate using the word idiot because it has links in eugenics and etc.
But that's exactly what Andy Warsky is.
Several times if you listen to that episode, Enoch knows that that episode is going to be one that because Andy Warsky is on and because Andy Warsky has this enormous platform on YouTube, this is going to be like the first one that a lot of people are going to listen to.
I just want, I want Warski to ask his questions.
I want to be able to like talk about the things, the problems that he might have.
What he wants to do is to just take these easily debunked center-right talking points and then feed his propaganda into Andy Warski's audience.
That's exactly what he's doing in that episode.
And he does that on the Holocaust, and Andy Warsky, without having a real education about the Holocaust in his head, and not having an understanding of how Holocaust denial works, falls for it hook, line, and sinker.
100%.
Now, I don't know if Andy Warsky today is a Holocaust denier, I haven't really followed him that much.
He kind of got away from, we're going to talk about JF Gary at some point and we're going to get into this, but he ended up hanging out with Ian Miles Chong and doing a gamer channel and apparently there was a bunch of like money that went missing and it's like a big like bullshit kerfuffle and they deserve each other.
Anyway, sorry, just to clarify that.
Go ahead, Jack.
I was just going to say, not only does he You not know about it.
I mean, not not knowing about so there's no inherent, you know, moral value attached to not knowing things, you know, it's perfectly fine to not know things.
But the problem lies when you go ahead and have these sorts of conversations, particularly in public, in front of huge numbers of people, with people like Mike Enoch, etc.
And you don't know what they're talking about.
You don't know anything about the things they're going to be saying to you.
So you go in unequipped to challenge them.
There is a moral value attached to that.
That is deeply reckless and irresponsible.
Exactly.
And it is.
And to my knowledge now, I'd be perfectly willing to have my mind changed on this.
To my knowledge, Warski has never acknowledged that or said, oh no, I actually looked into that and it was complete bullshit.
So I haven't looked deeply enough into Warski in particular to have an opinion about him.
He was absolutely useful idiot in that moment.
And yeah, that's really terrible.
Anyway.
And, again, that episode, we will come back to that.
They get into some really deeply, like, it's just such a concentration of, like, complete bullshit.
Also, 171, which I re-listened to bits of that today.
Oh, God, they get into, like, Hitler esoterica and, like, the belief in, like, metaphysical reality about, like, you know, like, the Jews believe in, like, demon monsters and stuff.
It's deeply, deeply fucked up in ways that even most of the stuff isn't.
The stuff that they normally don't say is certainly not anymore.
Back in 2017, they were definitely much more overt about it.
I think we're coming to the end of this episode, and one of the things that I read back in episode 9, I read this kind of chunk of The Daily Show, which was called Unironic Exterminationism.
I'm not going to reread that because Jack already had to listen to that once, but I would recommend you go back and listen to that.
This is a segment where they talked about the possible need to annihilate basically the entire world Nonglite population.
Um, and they feel bad about it.
They feel like it's a, uh, um, you know, a necessity, a possible necessity for the future, but, uh, something that the only way the white race is ever gonna be free is to, is to, uh, kill lots and lots of people.
And, um, they're not happy about it, but they think it's a necessity.
Now, back in 1943, um, little guy you might know named Himmler, Hitler never gave an order for the Holocaust.
the uh the posen speeches or the posnan speeches and i have um links to these you can um you can listen to little chunks of it on youtube with a english translation translation because it is in german but um if you have any doubt you know one of the one of the talking points that these people give is like oh there's no you know hitler never gave like an order for the holocaust there's never there's nothing written down well i'm gonna read this
uh this this this segment from this speech um and this is uh pretty much at the height of the extermination of millions of human beings and And this is not a hymn of being happy about this.
I just want to be clear about that.
I want to also mention a very difficult subject, before you with complete candor.
It should be discussed amongst us, yet nevertheless we will never speak about it in public, just as we did not hesitate on June 30th to carry out our duty as ordered, and stand comrades who had failed against the wall and shoot them, about which we have never spoken and never will speak.
Thank God, a kind of tact natural to us, a foregone conclusion of that tact, that we had have never conversed about it amongst ourselves, never spoken about it.
Everyone shuddered.
Everyone was clear that the next time he would do the same thing again if it were commanded and necessary.
I'm talking about the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people.
And it's one of those things that is easily said.
The Jewish people is being exterminated.
Every party member will tell you, perfectly clear, it's part of our plans for eliminating the Jews.
It's exterminating them?
A small matter.
And then along they all come.
All of the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his dissent to you.
They say, all the others are swine, but here is a first class to you.
And, none of them has seen it, has endured it.
Most of you will know what it means when a hundred bodies lie together, when five hundred are there, or when there are a thousand.
And, To have seen this through, and with the exception of human weakness, to have remained decent, has made us hard, and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned.
Because we know how difficult things would be if today, in every city during the bomb attacks, the burdens of war and privations, we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators, and instigators.
We would probably be at the same stage as in 1916-17, if the Jews still resided in the body of the German people.
The Nazis were the original Holocaust deniers.
They thought that this thing that they were doing was a glorious thing that they should be honored for, but they knew it was something that they had to keep secret.
And they thought that future generations would revere them for this necessary but difficult thing they were doing.
And I'm just gonna say, if your political ideology involves the overt planning of murder of millions of people, You're the bad guy in history.
This is Himmler admitting to it.
In so many words, there's audio of him saying this.
You can listen to it, it is on YouTube.
Himmler thought this was an honor, a difficult honor.
But the modern day Nazis, yeah, well, it definitely didn't happen because it makes us look bad.
It doesn't make you look bad because it's a fucking atrocity of history.
And that's kind of all I have to say.
Yeah, there it is.
Okay, that was episode 17 of I Don't Speak German.
Thank you very much for tuning in.
We've already discussed what we're probably going to be talking about.
next week.
I'm at underscore Jack underscore Graham underscore on Twitter.
Daniel is at Daniel E Harper.
Get in touch with us if you have comments, questions, suggestions, information, anything like that.
