Crack On: Abortion, Sexuality and the Spiritual War Within — SF693
Russell Brand and guests dissect abortion, sexuality, and spiritual warfare, arguing pro-choice views require believing Christ's full humanity to avoid Nestorian heresy. They critique corporate church culture while exploring altered states in addiction and spirituality, referencing AA's "We Agnostics" chapter. The discussion shifts to Rumble Wallet as a censorship-resistant financial tool and Brand's health struggles with migraines treated by ivermectin. Highlighting Elon Musk's Grok AI analyzing the Bible as code, they find memory structures matching eyewitness trauma, suggesting Gospel variations reflect natural human recall rather than fabrication. Ultimately, these insights frame faith as a necessary leap through scientific mysteries, urging listeners to overcome the tyranny of the self. [Automatically generated summary]
Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Brand trying to bring real journalism to the American people.
Hello there, you awakening wonders.
Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
Of course, we're doing Krakon today.
That's our opportunity to talk about addiction.
Wherever you're watching us, join us on Rumble and Get Rumble Premium.
Over the course of the next few days, I'm on a very secret mission that I can't even tell you about, but I will be back soon.
Enjoy this content.
Firstly, pro-choice or pro-life?
Can you be Christian and still be pro-choice?
Check this out.
I'm absolutely in favor of women having the right to choose regarding their bodies.
I'm fully supportive.
Would you agree that that is killing a human being?
I do not think that is killing a human being as long as it is in compliance with what medical professionals recommend.
As a representative of the Diocese of London, elected General Sylod, I am fully in favor of women having the right to choose regarding their own bodies.
I entirely support that.
That's a view shared by many of my colleagues on.
So back to the question: do you believe that Christ was fully human inside the womb?
Now you see why I asked the question.
You see, if you say that inside the womb after conception, we're not talking about human beings, then that means you deny that Christ was fully human inside the womb, which means that you've fallen into a heresy because you're in denial of Christ's full humanity.
If you try to imply that Christ became human at some point inside the point of conception, or that his divinity attached himself to some kind of humanity later, that moves towards Nestorian heresy.
Well, that's some serious checkmate from my man there.
With the like, that was a really why I say checkmate because it's such an interesting move, like to go from the moment of conception.
Because I suppose you can make medical arguments, even on a with a less sophisticated argument, I was when he says a woman's body, it seems as I get deeper into my understanding of Christianity, that what's quite fundamental is the idea that you belong to God, you belong to God primarily.
My mate Sam said this interesting thing with another project I'm working on where I was talking about Bathsheba and David in the Bible.
One of David's key sins is his adultery with Bathsheba and murder of Uriah.
And I was sort of talking about that and it's something I'm working on.
And my mate Sam said, even the idea that consent between two human beings can supersede God's law shows you where you're locating ultimate authority.
You're saying that ultimate authority is human.
And so even the argument that you are entitled to do what you want with your body is a type of heresy.
It's not so sort of profoundly heretical as where my man went with that, you know, Christ in the womb.
What do you guys think about that as more experienced than Christians and me?
Dave?
Oh, you don't want to wade into the old abortions, Jake.
Oh, I will.
I just thought Dave was thinking.
Be kind to Dave.
Of course, I don't agree with the board, but I also, one of my thoughts on seeing that is I hate gotcha type deals.
It's like it's kind of set up to like, I gotcha.
I think he's right, but he could be right and not necessarily right in how he did that.
I also think like if someone's going to change their mind or be, is that guy open?
He's trying to seek truth.
Like, was that productive?
Like, is that a conversation that's actually going to help someone see truth?
The other thing is, Jake, like that when you've been involved in abortions, and I have, like, you, I remember having a conversation with this brilliant female performance artist, stroke musical artist called Amanda Palmer.
She was married to that guy, Neil Gaiman, who's written some really brilliant books, like, and loads of them have been super successful and made into movies and stuff.
And she is an excellent performer, really brilliant woman.
She'd done a version of that song from Frozen, Let It Go, and reframed it around her own abortion, you know?
Don't hold me back anymore.
And I had this conversation with her about abortion where I sort of was, I hadn't come to the Lord and I was saying, it is awful though, isn't it?
And I goes, and in a way, it's sort of someone going into an abortion clinic and people protesting outside it.
At least are surely in agreement that this isn't nothing.
And she talked about her own experience with abortion.
And I feel like the kind of glibness or celebratory side of it started to fold away.
You know, we know like how we feel, don't we, when the subject comes near to us.
Like, have you ever like, you know, if someone shows you any of the material of it, you're like, whoa, no, no, no, you can't go near it, can you?
It hits you.
You need to have a hearth stone to be able to just go, yeah, that doesn't bother me.
Like it's too, it glitches you, I think.
It hits you beyond self in the same way that sometimes I feel the challenge.
Forgive the strangeness of this comparison, but sometimes I feel the challenges we face as men when it comes to objectification is almost like a factory settings as well as a cultural, something that's culturally augmented or amplified.
Like when you're like, I'm not going to stare, it's sort of like you've really got to make a deliberate spiritual choice there.
And like with the subject of abortion, there's something so awful about it, even as Dave says, the gotcha approach ain't appropriate.
Yeah, I don't know.
In that clip, I didn't see that guy as like, I'm trying to catch this guy in a lie.
It seemed like a very not charged discussion.
Like almost like this is, I don't know, if he could have known he would set that up, that would be pretty amazing, you know, of a setup.
It seemed like he just sort of pivoted into the truth.
And that felt like that guy almost was like, oh my gosh, I haven't.
I hadn't thought of that before.
That is the goal is our own, I don't know, our own thoughts, the things that we think to be true, have to collide with what God says is truth at some point.
Yes.
And for us, we have to go, I don't trust myself.
Like, I have to give up my free will back to you, Lord.
Oh, man.
You know, and that has to be the goal.
See what I get.
See, because it's such a big subject, you've got to obviously, you know, you don't have to be careful.
You can do what you like, but like, it's sometimes it's nice to be careful.
But what, see what you're saying there, Jake, about truth?
One of the things I've encountered is, say, with the areas I find difficult, like I don't feel comfortable judging people around their sexuality, right?
And but luckily, it says in the word, don't judge others.
So that's cool.
So I can just not judge others and I'm out of that problem.
But when it said, when it lists, when it itinerizes sort of sin, it says, you know, sexual immorality, as I'm referring to Corinthians here, sexual immorality, it says homosexuality and stuff.
When I'm like trying to mess with that in my head, when I'm trying to understand it in my head, or as our beautiful friend Charlotte Boeff would say, do you fuck with the Bible?
Do you fuck with Chester?
When I try to fuck with that in my head, I'm like, what I get to is what it leads you to, whether it's abortion or living in harmony with one's own sexual preferences, mine were sinfully to be very promiscuous and to have sex with anyone who wanted to.
I recognize now that your self is the supreme principle, that in order to have sex with whoever you want, if there is scriptural guidance that prohibits it or directs you away from it, you have to supersede that principle with another principle.
I want to.
You have to do that.
You have to go, I want to.
And until you're willing to say, I want to is not the supreme principle, there are other things that are more important than I want to.
Now, all of us sort of acknowledge that in sort of ways, kind of otherwise films wouldn't be able to have heroes in them because no one would be emotionally moved when someone sacrifices themselves for another person's well-being, for example.
But whether it's, you know, the reason it was wrong for me to sleep around is because I did it motivated by what I wanted.
That was the most important thing.
I didn't think this is not going to be beneficial to these people.
And even if it was, it was still wrong because what were we all doing there?
Yeah, beneficial to them or you.
I mean, you can't forget you in the equation.
Right.
Like there is a, you're, you're going through all of this now as a result of that time as well.
So it's not like you go, I hurt those people.
Yeah.
Whatever, but I feel great.
Like there's, there's consequences whenever we do anything outside of the will of God.
Anything, no matter what it is.
Oh, man.
That's so good.
And that aligns with a really beautiful piece of our recovery philosophy that we've mentioned before on Krakon.
Whenever we have a resentment, we usually find at some point in the past, we've made a decision based on self that's put us in a position to be hurt.
And this idea based on self, based on self, not based on God, I wasn't going around sleeping with people because I thought God would benefit somehow.
I was doing it because I wanted to.
And when I've been reflecting on the reason I'm, again, I don't want to fall into my, into the Tommy Robinson trap where I raised the fact that I jerked off a man in a toilet in front of Tommy Robinson and had to spend like that 20 minutes dealing with Tommy Robinson's shock.
It was like it was not something you can mention as an aside to Tommy Robinson.
But anyway, like when I'm thinking about, because there's lots of people that are gay that I love and I don't feel like I want to be seen as in any way judging them.
But when, you know, like the, the, when I think about Christ and the beloved disciple John, and the intimacy that they know and the love that they know, and the love that is therefore available to all of us in him, by saying, by saying that the supreme expression of yourself is your sexual expression of yourself, you're making an interesting claim.
You're making an interesting claim that's worthy of unpacking and the culture would say, like you know, you've got, if you're a gay person, that you must come out as if your sexual identity is your supreme and absolute identity.
Now I I, as a petrisexual person, I did live for a long time like my sexual identity was my absolute identity.
I wonder what you do with that.
What do you think about that mate?
It's shallow.
That's the very first thing I think of.
It's like a shallow, and I'm not saying like not seeing that on the person.
I just think if that is your identity, there's that's it.
In a sense, like, I mean, there's so much more.
Yeah, because it does come down to just sex.
Because if you're talking about, and maybe male-on-male relationships have been skewed for so long that people don't understand that it's okay to have deep, longing, loving friendships for, you know, like I always think David and Jonathan.
So then it just becomes sex again.
Right.
It is, in it, they love each other so much, David and Jonathan.
Maybe David and Jonathan love each other more than they love any woman.
Yeah, because there's stuff in the Bible that says like, don't get married.
You know, like there's stuff that's like, like, I think it would be more complicated.
You have more distractions.
You have like all these things that can, you have to worry and care about your spouse instead of just being devoted to the Lord.
So what if, I mean, in a world where it's like there's just friends, they love each other.
So then it just becomes about sex.
That's got to be the cross the line, right?
To be.
It's interesting, isn't it?
Because any counter argument to that is the claim that God wouldn't make me feel this way if he didn't want me to do it.
But what stops you making that claim about, therefore, anything you want to do?
Well, God wouldn't make me this way if he don't like once you, then you have to make a, then you have to make recourse to a secondary authority.
Look, we all know the difference that Peter Philiy is wrong, but it's okay to be promiscuous or gay.
We've set that new bar.
Well, you don't have that authority.
That's basically the like, but I suppose the other Christian component is you yourself focus on you.
You are, your body is a temple.
So get in your temple and work on making sure that you are behaving in a holy and divine way.
If you're spending even one second of your day going, yo, what are they doing over there at the gay community?
And then you best not be looking at any porn ever.
Because if you are, you've got, get in there and mind your own business innit.
And I suppose that's the challenge is people create convenient hierarchies of sin from which they can then go judge others.
And I think that you lot who have a different relationship with the church because you've grown up in Christian communities and grown up in churches and been around churches and worked in churches and all that kind of stuff.
You know about that, huh?
But there's that kind of pharisaic, hypocritical stuff.
Yeah, jaded by it.
I mean, I went through seminary.
I feel like I'm still recovering from it.
Why?
What goes on in that seminar?
Oh, man.
The culture there.
It's just moral.
Like, who's more moral?
it gets goofy and it i jake has jake's healthier than both of us I could say that probably.
Like, Jake, I feel like it's probably.
This guy here.
Convenient Hierarchies of Sin00:16:06
Yeah.
Him, Jake.
Yeah.
Well, well, we're going to start saying that Joe and Massey are healthy.
I mean, where does this end?
I think Joe means it.
I'm not arguing with you on the case of Jake.
Joe and Massey, I'll probably have a pretty serious argument.
But like, Jake, what's your point about Jake, though, Dave?
Well, I feel like he's probably, I, I'm still, I still really struggle with church culture.
I feel like it's anti-Christian.
Yeah.
It's like the opposite of what the Bible is.
It's the opposite of my experience with Jesus.
It's the opposite of what I read in scripture.
Yeah.
So at least here in the South, I mean, it's different.
It's different in different areas of the world.
But here in especially Dallas, Dallas is like the belt buckle of the Bible Belt.
And it is, I mean, church business.
And the cultures they create around there are, It wasn't meant to be that.
No.
I don't think that was what Jesus was thinking of, is creating these massive corporation churches.
I don't think so.
I think, yeah, like, yeah, the idea of, of course, it's a body, so that is literally corporate, but I get the sense that it's meant to be decentralized.
I just, for me, I just have seen all aspects of it and been deeply involved in large mega churches, small house churches, you know, and there's people I don't like in either one of them.
So for me, it's like I could go, oh, you know, the crunchy house.
I mean, I got people that pop up in my head, live down the street from me that I'm like, I don't want to spend any time with them.
And I think I've been in the large mega church of people, I'm going, this guy's doing it all for show.
And then I get to know him a little better.
And I'm going, this is an awesome person that really is just trying to do what the Lord's called him to do.
That doesn't mean that there aren't the same people who you feel this guy's doing it for the wrong reasons.
Then you get to know him and you're like, yeah, he's doing it for the wrong reasons.
He's a piece of trash.
I just don't think that it's like I've seen it for what it is and I never put my trust in any of it anyway.
So it's not like I'm getting my hopes up by every church experience that I go to.
And that's not like the main icing on the cake for me.
I don't go to a sermon, go to a church waiting for what good word am I going to get because I'm getting it all throughout the week anyway.
So it's, I guess I see it for what it is and I'm not affected by it.
Though there have been times where I've been deeply affected by it.
Any kind of partisanship or tribalism is probably not good.
You probably shouldn't care that much, even though caring, I mean, tribalism is everywhere from football to nationalism.
It's very difficult to not start to get into that stuff.
But in a way, I suppose it's always when you return to him, when you return continually to Christ, it starts to become ridiculous.
It starts to well, I'll give you an example.
And he uses all of it.
So even the Pharisees, even the people that he knew, even the sitting around the Last Supper, knowing people were about to, you know, Judas was about to do what he did.
He still uses them.
He still loves them.
He still does things in the midst of it.
Like I, I went to a healing service one time and that's like completely out of my comfort zone.
And there was this guy who was a showman.
I mean, he was doing no-look healings, you know.
He'd be like, you fire God.
He asked this guy.
He's like, he's like, you have a pacemaker?
The guy's like, no.
And he just hits him on the chest.
Fire God.
And I'm looking around.
And this guy at one point goes, who has, you know, who has asthma or something?
And he chases this guy around the church.
And the guy who's doing it is like older.
The pastor's like 75 years old.
Doesn't look like he's in the best shape.
Chases this guy around.
He goes, you almost let me catch you, son.
You didn't have faith about your asthma.
And then the guy's like, I just had triple knee replacement surgery.
And the pastor's like, okay, brother, we're going to pray for you.
So all that's happening.
At one point, he goes, someone in here has been holding on to an affair that ruined their family.
And all of a sudden, you hear two separate people crying out, one from the front row, one from the back row.
And I know the person in the front row.
And the person crying in the back row is the woman who ruined the girl in the front row's family.
So, and now they're separated.
And now this lady, who was the home wrecker of the whole situation, has now given her life to Jesus.
They both realize it's them.
Oh, cool.
And they come together at the end of the service.
And it's, you know, the lady's dad is the one who had the affair with the other lady that's crying in the back.
And so they get to have redemption in the front of this church, healing, crying.
With the same man that was.
No look blessings.
Ah, fire God, heal him out.
So it's like you can be wrong on 95% of it and God still use it.
And I could have missed out on even any of that by just going, yeah.
It's true.
It's true.
God will work despite us.
He says that too, then people that are clear, they're casting out demons, Lord, in your name.
Should we stop them?
He's like, no, that's cool.
Let them crack on.
Like he's not bothered about that kind of stuff.
Wow, this is, you know, it's not a brand.
This anonymity thing is pretty important because, of course, it's so significant in the 12 steps as well.
And like the character of Bill W, I'm not comparing him to Jesus, a more fallen and broken man.
It's difficult to imagine.
He was sort of like financially corrupt, morally corrupt, and obviously an alcoholic.
But somehow he marshalled all of those flaws and defects of character, as they would be called, in a sort of a 12-step lexicon into not starting the Bill W system of Alcoholics Anonymous, starring Bill W. You can turn your W into a winner.
And like the fact that this person who was, I recognize this guy, entrepreneurial, a show-off, broken womanizer, like takes his name and money out of it.
It kind of, in a sense, we start to recognize what the ring fence has to be.
Because when you're describing, fire God, man, it's Elvis and it's Vegas Elvis is what comes to my mind is Vegas Elvis.
And one time I went to, and this I must have known a lot less if such a thing were possible then than I even know now because I went to this church and it was in a room at the Hilton, you know, and it was like it was guessed it was near the airport in LA.
It's mostly black people there and it was just going on.
And I've always, always been fascinated by church and churches.
So I went in there and a guy was doing, he looked like when, you know, when Chappelle plays a character that's got buck teeth or whatever, I feel like it might be in an Eddie Murphy movie.
It might have been one of them Norbert type movies.
The guy looked like that and he was old and he was getting people up to the front and stuff.
I was at something else.
I was at a screenwriting course.
I was at a screenwriting course in the same hotel and this church thing was going on.
I was like, whoa, this looks amazing.
I went in and he was calling people up to heal them.
And then when he was healing them, they were laying down, you know, and like going, oh.
And I thought, I'll have some.
But I really deeply thought this isn't real.
And like, I went up the front and he sort of put hands on me and like, and I felt nothing.
Yeah.
And like, he sort of, I saw him look appealingly at me in a kind of, come on, mate.
And that's what I'm like, do it then.
Don't be, don't fucking ruin this.
And so I went, oh, I had to do it as well.
You know, like, even like, even though I could, it was.
That same day, that same service, there was like, you know, in the Cajun culture, they got some big people.
They like to eat.
Tubby folks.
Oh, my gosh.
Like we used to, the pastor used to say, this can fit 1,500 people, but we went off Cajun backside.
So it can actually fit like 2,500 normal sized people.
But anyway, this guy was doing healing on this lady and she fell backwards, slain in the spirit.
And as soon as she hit the ground, her legs flew up and she farted louder than I've ever heard in a quiet, still church.
And I just lost it because that's hilarious.
Like people are trying to keep it together and I'm just losing it.
We were talking about the next day, and I said, Yeah, you guys were laughing, but y'all didn't realize that lady hasn't been able to fart for 25 years.
You know, the Lord delivered her.
All this was happening in the same service.
And I'm like, What is that sounds like a really rich experience?
I mean, certainly richer than, you know, why don't you go to the mall?
Why don't you stare at a screen?
Why don't you believe in this?
At least you're engaging with the world.
And actually, thinking about that original abortion conversation that we just watched, he's like, in a sense, that conflict, that conversation leads us to the problems of the corporeal, the bodily, rather than the corporeal in this instance.
Like that, if Christ has a body and he's a product of the Holy Spirit and it's a virgin birth to fulfill prophecy and not to contaminate with earthliness and all of these sort of theological freight that's being moved by the virgin birth, you know, that you're left with, and C.S. Lewis talks about that Christ having a body is vital, and Christ having a body and being a man is partly what I've always been resistant to.
And he says, C.S. Lewis, that there are these kind of coordinates that we start to find.
He goes, Why do you find fart in funny?
Why?
Why?
There's a reason.
If you keep pushing down and down and down, you will find in yourself there's part of you that is pure spirit and finds it sort of obnoxious.
And like an animal don't laugh at its own hard dick.
Lord alone knows when my beloved bear he was never bothered about his hard on or his farts.
And C.S. Lewis offers angels wouldn't either.
Angels wouldn't find bodily functions funny or they wouldn't have them or whatever.
And we live in this weird interstitial place where we have choice, where we can go into the animal, where we can go into the divine.
But we sort of something in us tells us this isn't all there is.
There are clues to our divine origin.
And we sort of, it's just, it takes, there's so much weight in the world.
You wear the world, it's a heavy, heavy coat to sort of be able to sort of shirk it off and to find your wings is no easy thing to sort of throw off skepticism and cynicism because you do have to live with even where you one might have an expectation of fight of not finding ridiculousness and pantomime and tubby fart in backward rolling ladies and bucktoothed charlatans.
There they all are at the right of the heart of it.
And I've, you know, whenever I've go near church, in church, around church, it's this, you've got to go there with the, these are just broken people.
And I don't know, Jake.
I don't know like what we're going to be doing other than is we're going to be sort of guided to be guided to accommodate all of this ridiculousness, guided to accommodate this divinity and ridiculousness.
Don't you feel like we're already on that?
Yeah.
I mean, we, what is it, two weeks ago?
We're at an MMA gym opening and turns into a baptismal.
Yeah.
It was pretty weird baptizing all them UFC fighters.
I had no idea of that happening.
You probably didn't have any idea of that happening.
We didn't want to go.
We didn't want to go.
We didn't want to stay.
We didn't want to be there.
Yeah.
And then, yeah, Bryce Mitchell and some other people there ended up being sort of it, but it ended up being a pretty divine occasion.
And when I'm doing that work better work or whatever it is, you know, like, I feel like be in the right state of mind.
Make sure this is sacred to you.
Make sure this is sacred to you.
Be present with him.
Hold him.
Because I know that I don't have no authority.
It's an interesting thing.
And I do feel that's part of what we're meant to be doing.
It's difficult to see through and beyond these trials, but I feel how they are fashioning and shaping our circumstances.
And like when me and Joe done it, like pretty early on, we baptized like a bunch of like people from our 12-step group, didn't we?
That was a pretty amazing day in that river, wasn't it, Joe?
In the Thames, it was good, wasn't it?
Straight after a meeting, down there for a little baptism.
Yeah, it's what we're supposed to be doing.
It's what we're supposed to be doing.
It's so interesting.
Like, came up in there in the last podcast we were doing.
Your faith has saved you.
Of course, you can, it's so mad because it's a bit tinkerbell in a way.
It's like, if you don't believe in fairies, there are no fairies.
It's sort of like, is this for children or something?
But somehow we are the participants in what is it?
What is the prima materia of reality?
I think most of us now know it's consciousness, that consciousness is not an inadvertent byproduct of some sort of weird process that was started by nothing.
There was the story, there's this process that was started by nothing and had nothing before it.
And from it comes consciousness and life and love and poetry and art and architecture and all of these things by nothing and it doesn't mean anything.
That's that you can you've got to jump in that bucket also.
Massey's just smiling.
You've got to jump in that one.
He's just like, there's nothing and it's okay.
It's a heavy, it's a heavy that's that's my view.
That's that's not a straw man at all.
That's 100% my view.
But easily, but too though, but too though, that when you have to, you can't hold, you can't, no one can get past geometry, music, and beyond.
And even deeper than geometry and music and math is meaning itself, meaning itself.
And it takes, it's very, it's a hard threshold to cross, but I sort of feel like I know you've crossed it, Massey, with drugs.
Well, maybe drugs isn't the right word.
Hallucinogenic encounters.
Yeah.
And what happened to me is that that it didn't, it was webbed on this somehow.
Like it comes out of that.
It's like it's, it's not separate from it.
That's what happened.
I think the Bible came from that.
It made me understand religion more rather than me.
It didn't make me think, oh, therefore, religion is real.
It made me think, oh, this is why people believe that stuff because of this deep experience.
But like, if you can have the belief in God or other realms or anything spiritual just from like a hallucinogenic experience, an entheogenic experience, then what about just falling in love with somebody?
You know, that's a deeply spiritual experience.
Surely you could believe in God just based on that.
These are just deeply human experiences.
I don't therefore think that there's a God in the same way, but I respect people that do believe that.
Have you ever had any sort of spiritual experience, do you feel like in your life?
Or anything that you were like.
How would you define that?
Anything like otherworldly in a sense?
I mean, maybe it was you tripping balls and wherever you were doing that.
Do you feel like you?
Yeah, I mean, I'd say that the one night I had in Amsterdam where me and my mates did like four boxes of Hawaiian mushrooms and I sat in a hostel and I thought I was just in like heaven, essentially.
I remember after that, I remember thinking that I knew the answer to it.
Defining Spiritual Experiences00:04:58
Basically, I felt like everything had been completely washed away and everything I was stressed about was completely washed away.
And that was gone for like months.
I remember I came back and I paid like one of my mum's debts off.
I did like a bunch of like selfless things.
And I thought, shit, I need to do this every few months so that I don't turn into an asshole.
And it's funny because we were talking yesterday about materialists and basically with the trainers, Joe.
Like I get in that exact same thing.
Like I was literally looking at another leather jacket the other day when we were on stream.
I was like looking at another window having the exact same experience as you.
And I find that when I'm least happy in life, I'm looking at products and things like that.
And it's like a barometer for how unhappy I am.
And when I sold everything, which was a really difficult thing to do, I went traveling.
First off, it was really difficult.
I was selling drums that really mean a lot to me.
But then when I sold them all, I got addicted to it and like not owning anything and just having, you know, what I call spiritual experiences.
But for me, are just experiences where I'm engaged with humanity, really.
That's what they really are.
So at least that's what I see them.
Oh, that is, yeah, and it's also semantics, you know, like, because in a sense, if what you're describing is transcendent, imminent grace, and then using the word humanity to mean that, then that's good.
And indeed, that's a sort of a sort of, that's what's commonly happened.
The fruits of human secularism and humanitarianism have been derived or at least come from or at least come after these phenomena have already been identified in Christianity.
So there's no, in a sense, no, like when they talk about the value of human life or human rights or all of that George Carlin material, he's saying, wait a minute, how, what are your human rights derived from?
We know that it's not okay to just genocide a whole population or enslave people.
What was you going to say there, Jake?
No, I mean, I think that's all good stuff.
I didn't really have a thought on it.
I see like this capacity to worship.
Yeah, what is that happening?
What is that?
I mean, I have, even as a believer, like I fall into that every day of like, I'll begin to worship.
My heart is made to worship this.
Yeah.
Right.
To get caught up in something, to get whatever it is.
Like even when I was thinking about Joe describing food, it's like that, like it was such descriptions in it.
It's almost like he was preaching a sermon to you, Massey.
You were like, sucked in.
It's like I have that to worship.
Now, like Roman says, I'll worship the creation rather than the creator.
One of the best pieces I've ever read, I still believe, is we agnostics around faith.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
And I just think of deep down in every man, woman, and child is the fundamental idea of God.
And then it says it may have been.
Why don't you read it?
Yeah, yeah.
In fact, let's do a special edition of...
I mean, where's your...
Listen, you've got to do this.
Let's do a special edition of spiritual crack on.
But first, these important messages.
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First off, I just love how you automatically think that we're linked together in your head.
Oh, yeah.
Where you're talking about a book and you go, let's do a special.
Faith, Reason, and Control00:08:40
That could be a book.
I've always did that.
watch along about whatever he just said but in your head it was pick up the guitar I know.
In my mind, right?
I keep doing this.
It's a serious mental illness I have.
I do it mostly with you, actually, and with my wife.
I think, why have you not done this?
I've already explained in detail many times exactly what I want.
Hurry up.
And I've actually not even said anything.
That's a serious mental illness.
Oh, it's so good.
Thought, Joe.
That should be enough.
Aren't you listening to me thinking?
This podcast is not allied with nor endorsed by any particular 12-step fellowship.
Let me start again because I'll fuck this right up.
Let's get on with it.
Let's get on with it.
This podcast is not allied with nor endorsed by any particular 12-step fellowship.
Although we may reference their literature, we do not represent these organizations.
The primary purpose of this podcast is to provide additional support to men and women who walk apart for recovery.
We share our personal experience of the 12 steps in the hope that others can benefit.
Take what is useful, disregard what isn't.
Apologies in advance for any offense caused.
Any other problems, take them to your God and to your sponsor.
Where's that little monkey in affairs, motherfucker?
I'll find one tomorrow, man.
That can't be far.
You best find us a monkey in affairs.
Don't worry about it.
This is from the book of Revelation as we continue to try to understand this hallucinogenic component that clearly accompanies prophecy and revelation.
Check this, Messi.
It says in the book of Revelation.
Then the voice, this is John on the Isle of Patmos, John the beloved disciple who lived out his last in exile on an island.
Then the voice that I'd heard from heaven spoke to me once more.
Go take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.
So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll.
He said to me, take it and eat it.
It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey.
So I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and I ate it.
It tasted sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I'd eaten it, my stomach turned sour.
Then I was told, you must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages, and kings.
Elsewhere in Ezekiel, this idea of being given scrolls, like this is where there's some real etymological work that could be done, I think, on what is what are other interpretations of the word scroll?
Because it sounds to me like these people are having prophetic visions in altered states.
And addiction is about altered states and spirituality is about altered states.
Is it possible to live beyond this state of mind?
Or are you going to live in the state that the state wants you to live in?
Foucault, the lunatic and post-structuralist, talked about biopolitics.
They want absolute control over every aspect of your life, your thought life, your interior life.
They won't rest until even in there you are controlled.
And I suppose one of the best ways they can get you is by letting you think that you are indeed in control of your life.
That's why addiction is such a great boon, because once you've surrendered, recognized your own powerlessness and the fundamental unmanageability of your life, then you kind of collapse into this state where only God can control you.
And when you are in God, they can't get you.
It's like home base and hide and seek.
But once you're there in God, they can't get you.
Everywhere else, they can get you.
They can get you if you're wise.
They can get you if you're knowledgeable, if you're smart, and if you're fast, and if you're rich, and if you're powerful and sexy, of course, they can because you are dust on the wind of history.
Dave, are you going to find we agnostic?
I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, I'm in We Agnostics.
I'm still looking for it.
You're in We Agnostics.
And this is from the notorious and legendary big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
And it's a famous chapter called We Agnostics, in which the authors of the book address their prospective audience of alcoholics, drunks, and tell them you're not really going to be able to meaningfully, successfully, or for any period of time stop drinking unless you have a spiritual experience.
Some of you might be lucky enough to have some blinding epiphany, but most of you aren't going to get that.
Most of you are going to just have to chip away at this old God system you're living in, the God of there is no God, a God called there's no God but me and what I want.
And the way it does this is in the chapter We Agnostics, which Dave is going to read now, because I can't fill forever, although I've got a lot of practice in feeling and now Dave fills with that.
There's so much in this.
It's kind of towards the end of We Agnostics.
So it builds on previous to this, I mean, it starts off saying, hey, you know, your powers over alcohol and drugs, your life's become unmanageable.
We have to have this power.
It's a power greater than ourselves.
It's this relationship with God.
It starts with whatever your conception is in the beginning.
And really, it says all you need to do to make a beginning is conceive that, okay, there could be.
There's probably a power greater than me, even though I haven't defined them or whatever.
And then it goes into like faith and reason.
And then so towards the end of it, it says, actually, we were fooling ourselves.
For deep down in every man, woman, and child is the fundamental idea of God.
It may be obscured by calamity, by pompt, by worship of other things, but in some form or another, it is there for faith in a power greater than ourselves.
Miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives are facts as old as man himself.
Where'd it go?
Where did it say?
Wasn't it more important that we got over this shit than see images of lunar flight?
I like that.
Yeah.
So that was towards the top of it.
It talked about like the Wright brothers, you know, their faith and being able to see flight and how much more important is that thanks than that.
He talks about the Wright brothers and how their faith and belief that they could create and design successful aircraft was the fuel that led them to create, instantiate what was once a concept within them became a reality.
I heard this guy once share, my mate Tusker, in fact, he goes, he goes, if they'd lived down my street, then Wright brothers, they never would have invented that airplane because people have got, it's impossible.
You can't fucking have ruined their courage.
I really liked it because he was like from somewhere in North London, Tuscan.
And I like the idea of flight.
They're called stupid things, aren't they?
The Wright brothers, like Orville and Wayne, they're called stupid, unlikely names.
Here it says, by the way, in so 2A, Ezekiel, when he gets called to be a prophet, you, son of man, listen to what I say to you.
Do not rebel like that rebellious people.
Open your mouth and eat what I give you.
Then I looked out and I saw a hand stretched out to me.
It was a scroll, which he unrolled before me.
On both sides of it were written words of lament and mourning and woe.
And he said to me, Son of man, eat what's before you.
Eat this scroll.
Then go speak to the people of Israel.
So I opened my mouth and he gave me the scroll.
Then he said to me, Son of man, eat the scroll I'm giving you and fill your stomach with it.
So I ate it and it tasted sweet as honey in my mouth.
Then he said to me, son of man, go now to the people of Israel and speak my words to them.
You are being sent to a people of obscure speech and strange language.
But to the, you are not, excuse me, you are not being sent to a people of obscure speech and strange language, but to the people of Israel, not to many peoples of obscure speech and strange language whose words you cannot understand.
Surely if I'd sent you to them, they would have listened to you.
But the people of Israel are not willing to listen to you because they're not willing to listen to me.
For all the Israelites are hardened and obstinate.
I will make you as unyielding and hardened as they are.
I will make your forehead like the hardest stone, harder than flint.
Do not be afraid of them or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious people.
You're going to have to get right tough if you're going to carry the word.
Hey, so yeah, so I guess I was just talking about that transcendent component and talking about altered states.
And you like it, Dave, because you're sort of saying that there's a native within all of us, it explains in We Agnostics, is a sort of a latent awareness of the mysterious that through drugs can be heightened.
Hardening Your Forehead Like Flint00:03:04
Slide over it.
It just heightened and highlighted and that all of us know is in there.
And indeed, if you are an alcoholic, altered states is your deal, is your problem, is your issue.
I can't help but notice that Joe now appears to be on some sort of yacht.
What's going on?
I'm outside my hotel.
Boutique Hotel Tagadir.
Does that say Tagadir up there, Nav?
Don't pronounce the T, it's not Tagger Dat.
Tagadir.
It's a lovely gaff.
Where's that monkey?
We've not found him yet.
Give us a minute.
Have a little stroll in a minute.
We'll find something.
What do you think you're going to do?
You're going to get yourself down the old bazaar.
There's got to be some sort of tourist attraction, isn't there?
There's a few little excursions to them.
We're going to scheme.
Where is it going tomorrow, Nav?
What's that paradise?
Paradise Valley sounds beautiful.
Looks beautiful.
Nice and good.
You can't go wrong in Paradise Valley.
Little lagoon.
All day long.
Look, bite the bullet.
Go and find that monkey.
Tell Nav that's what we're after.
I remember Nav, mate.
We need to find a monkey.
Can we get hold of a little monkey?
You can get hold of a little monkey whenever you want to.
Go on.
We'll find one, no problem.
We've actually done 44 minutes here.
We're doing pretty good.
Listen, we can't keep up this content without hard drugs.
We're going to take something now.
It's a commercial from one of our partners.
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Banks can cancel our accounts, freeze our cards.
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into rumble wallet joe are you able to i want to i'm going to lean right in you baby I don't mean that in a gay way.
But what it do.
Tired After Traveling Morocco00:06:16
Are you all right?
You're far away.
on then, do some what you're experiencing over there.
We're covering it.
What's happening?
I don't know, man.
You and me.
I'll be honest with you.
What's the matter?
So after last week, the food stuff was on me a little bit.
And I thought, there's probably some sort of parasite or gut problem, isn't it?
So I started taking ivermectin.
So I mean, ivermectin all week with methylene blue, which I do take anyway.
And it's not made an awful lot of difference when I do have what I can only describe as a mild migraine that hasn't left me for the last two days.
That's so good.
And I'm just fucking eating some bread anyway.
And I've not had any sugar.
You know, I'm doing all right.
But I'll tell you what, mate.
Like, you talk about staying with God and everything else when you, you know, when you're making decisions on self, you're going the other way.
And I find it really hard when I'm tired.
Like, if I'm tired, I'm fucked.
I'm banging trouble.
I will never make the right decision.
Ever.
Ever.
You know?
And it's as simple as having a bad night's sleep, isn't it?
It's so difficult sometimes.
So that's been my biggest challenge today.
I've been in a pretty bad mood till I've got here.
And I'm just looking forward to a good night's sleep, mate.
Starting a fresh day tomorrow.
And yeah, that's it, really.
He can work with you.
He can work with you wherever you are.
What I want to make sure is that in our shared endeavors and missions, that we are in pursuit of the Lord always.
The evil one is so adept at manipulating and maneuvering us.
Even like me and Dave's off on an excursion, aren't we?
And I've tried to reverse engineer vacations because I always, whenever I try and go on vacations, I don't like them because of the futility of luxury or even the hollowness of not having stuff to do.
So we've tried to reverse engineer this one by giving us a mission.
And as long as we stay focused on the mission, which is nothing short of saving a wounded prophet, then we'll be all right.
That's right.
Then I can enjoy room service in peace.
All we've got to do is save a life.
So you out there, Joe, that's why I'm trying to give you the equally important mission of trying to find and catch the monkey out of Indiana Jones, who I happen to know for a fact is in somewhere in Morocco right now in a little vest, in little fez, tossing himself off for the amusement of tourists over there.
I'm thinking about the stuff that happened to me in Marrakech.
I think that what happened was, is I did encounter one of them little monkeys and a snake.
They've always got stuff like that going on out there.
You don't know because you're Americans.
Yeah, I've never been there.
Some sort of cobra?
Yeah, you could get a cobra out there out of a basket.
Snake charming.
I went to Morocco at Disney World.
Epcot.
Oh, yeah, you went to Epcot, Morocco.
It's basically the same.
I went to Japan, Epcot.
Very good.
It's very nice.
Very nice.
I've got like a few things there.
Got a pearl out of Japan Epcot.
Like, you can get a lady there dressed up in Japan gear.
She'll shuck open an oyster.
Yeah, it's a nice place.
Japan Epcot is the best bit of Epcot.
Back there, they got candy back there.
They've got everything you need.
I mean, Guardians of the Galaxy have got the SBS Ride.
That's also there.
I don't know what country that's meant to be.
I don't know how they're trying to pull that off.
I like to start some wars in it, but I'd like to bomb Epcot, Iran right now.
The way, you know, like embassies have to shut down.
Like, if there's a war, I say we go Iran-Epcott and fuck them up.
Iran-Epcot.
Come on.
I'm offended that they don't have an Iran.
They don't have an Iran-Epcot.
They'll have Egypt because you've got to have the pyramids.
Yeah, that's better.
That's all I want, you know.
Same thing.
Get over there.
Mess them up.
Basically the same place.
Basically the same.
Iran, Iran, Egypt, North Africa, Mesopotamia, all the same stuff.
Byzantine Empire.
All right, listen to you, Lot.
I think we've done our work here, haven't we?
In some foul, sick, or depraved way.
Whether you're talking about complex issues like pro-life and pro-choice, the one thing we can all be unified in overcoming is the tyranny of the self.
They say, don't they, that a foolish man wants to master and control others.
The wise man learns to master and control himself.
Somehow within us, as Paul was fond of telling us, is a divine place and a holy inner sanctuary, a temple most divine.
Ah, look you at an overhead plan, a four-floor plan, if you will, of the great temple in Jerusalem and note its peculiar resonance and how similar it looks to the microchip processor of a modern computer.
Oh Lord, in your endless resonance and rhymes, we see through the geometry that surpasses all time.
Deep and hidden truths abundant and everywhere.
Lord, enlighten us.
Let us eat that scroll.
Let's eat the good word together.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll be back, you know.
At some point.
We'll be back at some point.
Unless, of course, we die.
In which case, I'm afraid all bets are off.
And sometimes I think, wouldn't that be relaxing?
A nice nap.
That's the biggest shaking.
Not suicidal.
Not suicidal, but there could be a point where you're like, oh, eventually.
We have work to do.
Eventually.
Right.
We're just same as Paul.
That's what he says.
Paul, he tells them straight, look, I'm fucking knackered.
I'm only saying it for you, Lot.
You're a pain in the ass.
That's what he says.
I'm paraphrasing.
Those are not the exact words, but that's the sentiment.
Right then, praise Jesus.
Thanks for coming.
Joe, be kept monkey.
How many more times?
You got five seconds, Joe.
Find the monkey.
No, any mate.
I'm going to find the monkey.
I'm going to make a little video of it.
I'm going to make a little short for next week.
As close as you can get.
As close as you can get.
What about that?
That's not bad.
That's not bad.
That's a good start.
If you could get an item of it, it's all lined up for you.
You've got a cat and a net.
That's pretty good.
If you've got that cat in the net, pretend it's your job.
Act like you're supposed to be doing it.
Like, if someone comes to see you and go backwards.
What's talking to me?
Two cats and a net.
Brain Structure in the Gospels00:06:11
Were their ears weird?
Very weird.
That's a sign.
That's the holy one.
He's shouting.
He's screaming in your face there.
Don't get nicked.
Don't mess with the bowel conditions.
Good book.
Yeah, good boy.
That was pretty good.
That's a good way to go out.
No one do.
No one.
We're all above doing P-word jokes.
We're all above it.
All right.
Thanks very much for joining us.
See you next time.
Not for more of the same, but more of the different.
Until then, if you can, stay free.
Oh, you said there was good scripture.
I don't know.
Jake, don't get all disinterested like you sat back in the middle.
Did you think the grocer thing would have been good?
All right, put it on.
Elon Musk's AI was instructed to analyze the Bible as code, and it immediately detected patterns that should not exist in ancient writing.
It found memory structures identical to real eyewitness reports.
It found trauma sequences that match modern neuroscience and growth patterns used in biological systems.
When the team tied all these findings together, they reached a shocking conclusion.
The human memory patterns.
The investigation began when researchers programmed Grok to analyze the Bible purely as data structure.
The team instructed it to ignore beliefs, religious teachings, and emotional reactions that humans usually attach to the Bible.
They told it to analyze the structure of the text the same way it examines source code.
Grok scanned the four Gospels with pattern detection tools that are normally used to find logic errors in software.
The team expected Grok to list mistakes.
They expected broken patterns and structural weakness.
Instead, Grok returned a shocking result.
It said the structure of the Gospels matches the way the human brain records events.
The team asked Grok to explain what it meant.
Grok showed a breakdown of the narrative flow and pattern density.
The system compared these patterns to massive data sets of witness statements, police reports, military debriefings, and trauma logs.
These data sets taught Grok how real memory behaves.
Human memory does not produce identical reports.
Real witnesses always disagree on small details because the brain records events in fragments.
Grok said the Gospels followed this same structure.
Grok explained that human memory is episodic.
Episodic memory means the brain saves experiences in pieces.
These pieces include images, emotions, fears, sounds, and reactions.
When a person retells an event, the brain rebuilds these pieces into a story.
This process creates natural differences between witnesses.
Two people can watch the same event and remember different details.
This is not a flaw.
It is how the brain works.
Grok said the differences in the Gospels show this same pattern.
The team saw this clearly when Grok examined the resurrection accounts in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Each writer lists different women at the tomb.
Matthew names Mary Magdalene and the other Mary.
Mark names Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome.
Luke adds Joanna and other unnamed women.
John mentions only Mary Magdalene.
Each account also records different reactions.
Some describe fear, others describe shock, and John focuses on Mary's private encounter at the tomb.
Grok said these differences match real eyewitness behavior, not fabricated narrative.
Critics have used these differences for years to claim the entire story is false.
Some have built careers on it.
Richard Dawkins, the world's most aggressive critic of religion, pointed to these same passages and said they contain contradictions and cannot be trusted as history.
Social media users have repeated his claims for years, with some calling the Bible a funny book made to put fools to sleep.
And yet, Grok's conclusion hit the room hard.
It said the structure matches real human cognition.
It said the writers recorded events the same way the brain naturally processes experience.
Nothing looked staged.
Nothing looked scripted.
If the accounts were invented, why would they follow the exact pattern of real memory?
What an amazing piece of content and brilliant use of technology.
Precisely that kind of thesis antithesis synthesis is what we need, isn't it, if we're going to align for new parables in new times that require new storytelling techniques through new media using new image systems and new metaphor and new verification of data.
pretty good that dave wasn't it yeah i mean well so going back to we agnostics the the reason will get you so far but it won't quite cross that bridge to faith you know So I think of, yeah.
Like, it's good to see that.
You know.
It's good to see that and you're like, it should reinforce your faith, but I mean, you still, there's a leap there that you have to do in faith.
You know in neurology that most synaptic exchange is electromagnetic energy, but there's a moment inexplicably where it becomes chemical.
No one, neurologists don't know why it does that.
It becomes as it moves between synaptic branches.
It becomes, it starts being electromagnetic and it becomes chemical for a moment.
Even in the most, every single field of human endeavor enters a threshold of faith eventually because you will encounter the mystery.
You will encounter the mystery in cosmology and biology and you'll get to the point where it's like, oh, no, that doesn't make sense anymore.
You'll have to eat the scroll.
You'll have to enter into faith.
But that's just what I think.
Let me know what you think.
And why have you got something?
No, I agree with you.
Everyone's agreed.
That's it.
Joe, where the fuck is that monkey?
See you next time for more of the same more of the difference until then if you can stay Free.