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Sept. 23, 2025 - Stay Free - Russel Brand
01:01:15
Is America Ready for a True Revival? - SF638
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Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Brandon Russell Russell conspiracy theories.
Trying to bring real journalism to the American people.
Hello there, you awakening wonders.
Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
It's clear the world is changing fast.
You feel it, I feel it.
People who knew nothing about Charlie Kirk are asking you, what was Charlie Kirk?
What was Charlie Kirk all about?
People in South Korea and North Korea, all of the different careers.
Is it really even a country?
Are asking who was Charlie Kirk?
And in some cases, claiming I too am Charlie Kirk.
So today we're talking about the repercussions of his murder and how it relates to other cultural matters, notably and specifically the cancellation of Jimmy Kimmel.
They're inextricably linked.
Jimmy Kimmel show got cancelled because of that.
And whilst Charlie Kirk's murder, you could just say, you know, quite succinctly, that's a tragic murder of a person killed because of their views.
And why you could say that the Jimmy Kimmel cancellation is simply the cancellation of a television show that was likely to get cancelled soon because late night don't have the audience anymore, and people are marketing in different ways and the culture's collapsing and imploding.
There's a significant conversation to be had that hasn't been had yet, and that's the conversation around revival.
What is revival?
What does it mean for a rational modern person to accept the living Jesus Christ as a reality?
As if we're people in Nazareth, thousands of years ago.
As if we predate the internet, modern communications, even the printing press, that we somehow require the Christ of millennia ago, the eternal Christ, the spirit that moved across the water.
Peculiarly our culture of endless operations within now and constant conflict has led us to a through and via the precipice of bewilderment to the edge of eternity and perhaps to a kind of eternal awakening.
We're going to be looking at the last great revival in your country that was the prominent figure that most people identify with that is Billy Graham.
We're going to be looking at some of Billy Graham's interviews and footage, and we'll be talking about how this peculiar set of events might lead, curiously, and with the mysterious power that only the Lord could ever wield to a revival.
I'm joined by the producer of the show, my mate Jake.
Hey.
Alright.
And Dave.
What's up?
And over there in America in the United Kingdom, unable to speak or even smoke, because the United Kingdom has become a kind of penitentiary, is Joe McCann, one of the best young reporters in the game.
How's it going, Joe?
Good evening.
Yeah, it's going all right, mate.
Other than uh, you know, famous double-edged sword, isn't it?
Like I say.
Been recognized, mate, for my good works.
Not all good.
Have you?
The landlord.
So the landlord, what tell me what the what are the consequences?
Because I notice you've not got a cigar.
You're drinking some sort of hibiscus and frankly a feat looking tea.
Yeah, I'm on the hibiscus tea tonight.
No cigar.
Why?
Verbal warning.
Written warning.
A written warning to come in the posts.
You've got a real warning.
What does it say?
But why do you get real what you got a written warning from your landlord about what?
No cigars indoors.
It's fair.
That's fair.
I think that's a police state.
You're an American.
You should be accepting that.
I think you should be able to, you know, smoke a little cigar.
That feels a little classy, right?
I'm saying so.
There are uh police going now to uh in the UK, just arresting people for a post online.
I've seen a few things.
Man, we covered yesterday.
Did you see it?
It was a very, very beautiful clip of In Thames Valley, mate, which is right up your neck of the woods.
Thames Valley Police went round, not even to arrest a woman, but to really give her the opportunity to apologize for stuff she'd posted in the last couple of weeks.
I couldn't even tell what she'd done wrong.
But the police officer, mate, he's so funny.
He's like, now listen, I wanted to offer you the chance to apologize.
Like he's he's like, he looks nervous of the woman's cat.
She's apparently sat there bald as a coop from chemotherapy, getting haranged by Temmes Valley Police.
They're not even intimidating police officers.
He's like really he's probably a really sweet and lovely person.
I'm not trying to criticize him.
But I'm not surprised you're banned from smoking because everything's getting banned in the UK now.
We've got two tracks going on.
We've got the track of the United States of America and its resurgent nationalism, where will that lead?
And the United Kingdom still in the frawl of neo-liberal Bureaucracy, where's that gonna lead?
Which one's more tyrannical?
Let me know in the comments and chat.
Thanks, Crowder and Mug Club for the raid.
Thanks, Tim Paul for the raid.
If you're watching this anywhere other than Rumble, click the link in the description, get on over.
And if you don't have Rumble Premium yet, get Rumble Premium now and support us.
As we have, in my view, the only conversation worth having.
Is there going to be a revival?
Are you going to participate in it?
If not, why not?
Let's get into it.
Now, Jake, you've put this show together.
What is it that you thought, what why do you think that revival is the conversation we should be having today?
I think everybody's always trying to ask uh when is the next revival?
And then if they're uh experiencing some of these moments, they're saying, is this revival?
Um there are also there's a lot of people that go around saying that's not revival.
There's like revival police.
Ah.
Yeah.
Not just in the U.S. Like in England.
Just yeah, revival police.
They're like, that's not authentic.
This isn't that.
That's not so that.
If you try and do a revival in the UK, the police might come around your ass and ask you to apologise.
Would you like to apologize for trying to revive?
Yeah, before this gets gone, we need to shut you down.
Yeah.
Because we know, even just hearing you say that, we've not had that in our co like they're in our country, they talk about like the Welsh revival, and like I understand there have been different points like that.
John Wesley and them, like the Methodists, they like some I've heard people that know a lot more about Christianity and the way that it has moved in the centuries since its inception, or at least since uh death and resurrection of our Lord, saying I've heard them say, Oh, there've been times in the past where Christianity's nearly died out.
And isn't it weird if you think of like when I was like in my 20s and 30s, people, I mean, you lot from they're from a different background, Joe, this lot over here.
No one was talking about Christ than Christianity.
Now you look at that massive, extraordinary Charlie Kirk memorial, and JD Varnes is saying more people are talking about Jesus to me than ever before.
Tucker's up there talking about Jesus, everyone's talking about Jesus, so something's going on, and I've felt like something was going on for a while.
And dear Joe's one of the beloved Baptists, Joe and Bear Grills are the two men that baptize me, as a matter of fact.
So, like we got a different reference.
We don't like you lot had revivals in the 60s and stuff like that, haven't you?
Yeah.
I mean, I even look at when we're Billy Graham's kind of been around everywhere.
I mean, he was in the UK, friends with the Queen, all kind of stuff.
So that's an interesting correlation between a person like that back in the day, and he was involved in culture, meeting with presidents, meeting with the Queen, and now we're sort of seeing like a new wave of connection between politics and Christianity.
And then intertwining all that are all these real stories of actual life change happening.
Your story, Joe's story.
You guys just met some people and did some baptizing.
Oh, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up.
I've been baptizing people even over the weekend.
I like giving people a good baptizing when the weather's right, when the weather's fine, when it seems like the right thing to do.
What I know is that people will be saying that the real fit fret is theocracy, that people say that Margaret Atwood's handmaid's tale, and that's actually a pretty sacrilegious reference to the holy mother there, actually, in it, even in the title.
So that people will use resurgent Christianity to create autocratic and centrally controlled tyrannies.
Whereas my personal fear has been these last 10, 20, 30 years or so, that the culture, the state, uh, via its propaganda machines within the culture, has been operating as a kind of dark counterfeit god for a long, long time.
That's where the murder of Charlie Kirk and the cancellation of Jimmy Kimmel collide to help us tell the story of this most modern revival.
Let's have a look at uh Pastor Mark Driscoll describing what a revival is for those of you that might be uncertain.
The reason I'm interested in a revival is because left and right are perhaps at the end of the line.
The ideas of the last century are broken, the new technologies demand a new model.
Wouldn't it be extraordinary if it was something arcane?
Once Brett Weinstein said to me that the resurgent Christianity is a culture's attempt to reboot the last thing that worked.
But I would say eternity is reaching continually through time through the cross.
Let's have a look at what Mark Driscoll's saying.
Revival is a surprising touch of the Holy Spirit that accelerates kingdom ministry.
The Holy Spirit shows up in a unique and powerful way.
We see this throughout the Bible, where the Holy Spirit falls on a group of people and just ignites them with a sense of passionate urgency for the things of God.
What our nation needs is a revival.
Now let me say this.
I'll say some controversial things.
Uh this is the beginning.
Um I am for elections, but I'm telling you this.
If everyone is just hoping in elections, your hope is eventually going to disappoint you.
That at the end of the day, what we need is not just an election to go our way, but revival to come our way.
We need people to meet Jesus.
We need them to have a new nature.
We need them to be born again and excited about the things of God.
I'm all for elections.
I'm all for cultural change.
I'm all for fighting the good fight.
But at the end of the day, until people are filled with the spirit and have a love for God, things won't change until God changes the people.
That's what I'm saying.
And what we have seen in our nation's history is occasions of God's presence falling in a way that produces revival.
I'll give you a couple as an example.
And I am praying for revival.
I'll just be honest with you.
I'd encourage you, pray for revival.
If you look at everything, you're like, the world really looks dark and the future looks bleak.
Yes, unless God shows up as the X factor, and then things could be quite different.
We saw this in the days of Jonathan Edwards.
He began preaching at the age of 19.
He is, in my estimation, America's greatest Bible teacher and theologian.
The Great Awakening came to his church in 1734 in Northampton, Massachusetts.
Young people who had drifted away from the church, gone apostate, lukewarm, didn't care.
They heard his sermons and they were curious.
So they wanted to meet with him and ask him questions.
And Pastor Edwards did in fact meet with them, and there began this revival called the Great Awakening.
One of his most famous sermons was Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.
And today we've reversed it.
It's God in the hands of angry sinners.
Rather than uh What are you saying so far, David?
This are you familiar with this pastor in this kind of discourse?
Well, Jonathan Edwards' famous sermon.
Yeah.
Have you read it?
It's incredible.
Sinners in the hands of an angry God.
I was listening to Father Mike Schmidt's the other day, I think it was, and he said that you know it's God that's in the dark, it's us that's putting God on trial continually.
The culture is asking, is God good?
What kind of God would do this?
What kind of God would approve this?
And as people sort of more and more move towards worshiping their own identity, you can see how it's becoming extreme or at least more novel.
But worship of the self and worship of the individuals be is the culture's main device, I argue, for converting people out of God consciousness.
And like I've said before in this show, like I realize that the role that I've played in that is a particular one.
Like you get cast into the culture that I don't mean it's so nefarious as to you know require sort of shadowy participation of organized elite groups.
Like I recognize that my own fame, celebrity, and success, which at the time felt like the result of my own excellence and my own endeavor, was simply that I was able to be utilized in the culture as a representative of certain set of values, like, oh look, he's a sort of somewhat sanitized bad boy advocating for selfishness and promiscuity and godlessness in a in a peculiar way.
But do you know it's been mad since I become Christian?
How many people have said, I was praying for you, I knew you'd find Jesus.
I've been praying for you for a long time.
People are always saying it to me.
Always saying that.
Yeah.
Everywhere.
Yeah.
It worked in the end.
You were like, Well, are you that bad?
How about doing well?
That people are praying.
I think it's interesting in a clip like this where he's talking about how revival starts with the younger generation, what younger people, ultimately, that's where the fire what's which the same thing was true when you were in the culture.
You were appealing to a younger crowd, everyone watching MTV.
So there's this always a battle between the cult and the people who can make an impact over the longest period of time.
So what's awesome about Turning Point and everything that Charlie Kirk was doing and what they are building.
I mean, we saw it 5,000 students when we went to Tampa for that event.
Fired up, excited, talking about the things of God.
It's kind of an interesting dynamic.
But what I felt to the point of um is it of Mark Driscoll here is that turning point was and presumably will remain, Explicitly and overtly a Republican organization, and Mark Driscoll here is saying that it don't matter who's not saying it doesn't matter who win elections because these are the arguments people on the left make.
Like when I select when I said oh there's no point voting for anyone because you get the same type of government anyway.
I remember people saying stuff like, Yeah, but the Labour government are gonna introduce this welfare bill for disabled people, and are you gonna tell to my brother who's disabled that it don't matter that he's gonna get this thing?
And people that are Republican might say, Well, you know, like we've taken a real stance on pro-life, and are you saying that that don't matter because that's the most important thing, and you know, even is that child sacrifice versus you know, like people will happily not happily but willingly remain within the confines of the existing argument.
And what's happened to me late happened to me really Charlie Kirk's death makes it more vivid, but it was happening with some peculiar poetry anyway, because that morning when we were doing the show, I felt like, and I hope it's not sort of wrong to tell you this explicitly.
This we can't just keep talking like this.
We can't just keep talking about cracker barrel logo, and we can't keep talking argument, even about something that's massive and significant Israel-Palestine.
Can't just keep being in a washing machine of these opinions the whole time.
It's pointless.
And I've started to feel that we need to participate in this directly and explicitly.
I don't want to talk about anything other than the salvation of souls and a real and present Jesus Christ, and to talk about it in a way that's not hokey, where I'm not governed by my own fear around money and finances and reputation and power, and where we're not shilling and it's not exploitative, you know.
And I know that an all-powerful God is going to direct us and use us and is going to do what he wants.
And but like I'm trying away, I'm working in what is clearly a liminal space.
Our situation is changing, it's changing really quickly.
And I know that the you know, for the that that how like me to make it sort of selfish, but as well, that's my way of that's where I can measure it.
I can measure it where it's hitting me.
I can see it then.
And that's where I guess ultimately revival starts is with the individual, the actual change, the the realization that I don't want to just keep playing these games anymore, I don't want to keep going back to the systems that I thought were my hope.
I want to go to the source, I want to go to God, I want to genuinely be changed.
In the end, faith's gonna be obedience.
That's what I keep.
I keep coming to things that are quite hard.
Like in the end, faith will be obedience.
That if you are truly faithful, you'll be obedient, you'll do what you're told.
But because my whole life has been defined by a kind of disobedience, because I don't trust authority, I don't trust that like that comes natural to me.
It comes natural to me to go, you liars.
Like, I really feel that about like the media, and like that's in a way what I like most about Trump is this person that's willing and able to have these confrontations.
But what is being revealed, and what Mark Driscoll's already pointed out is that a revival contained within political systems will be limited.
You're not gonna get a real revival or real revolution, you're just gonna get manoeuvring of one kind or another.
What's fascinating about this memorial of Charlie Kirk's is how overtly and explicitly Christian it is, and how of course his explicit Christianity is now at the absolute forefront.
But that don't mean that people ain't gonna try and exploit it and make it about what we used to call the Christian right, the thing that Margaret Atwood is talking about in the Handmaid's Tale, is oh, they're gonna say it's about Christianity and Jesus, but what they're gonna do is they're gonna use that to legitimate control, and that ain't nothing new.
People never more gleefully murder one another than when they believe they're doing it on behalf of their holy father, whether that's modern day Israel or the British and Americans when invading Iraq, you know, but like people get proper up for militant action when they say we're not doing this because of some subjective resort resource argument, we're doing this because it's God's will.
That's when people get crazy, no watch for that.
Yeah, I think I mean that's gonna happen.
The only thing you can put your trust in that is truly solid is God.
Yep.
You know, if if you are putting your trust in Republican, Democrat, whatever, any any sort of people group.
They are gonna fail you.
Yeah.
Always.
Yeah, they are gonna.
I'm watching like sort of like the what I'm interested in in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's murder, is when we watch something like a seemingly innocuous and potentially banal as Mark Ruffalo, the you know very good actor on Rain Wilson's podcast, I can see in him a kind of I I recognise what he's feeling.
He's feeling a kind of a despair and confusion, but he's still someone, like say Barack Obama or whatever, that's invested in the maintenance of the existing basically commercial, codified materialist culture.
Like that's what the offering is of the neoliberal left.
We are ultimately about cowtowering to corporations and bureaucracies, but we're gonna do it while pretending to be kind of nice to vulnerable people or whatever, and we'll find some tokenistic way of demonstrating that, and that's just breaking because it's not real, it's not got anything real in the midst of it.
And that's all they know.
They don't even have another frame of reference to try something different.
So, like that is their god, the culture, and then if it's not the culture, it's political parties.
So for them, it's like Obama or whoever was their guard at the time.
Yeah, it was a god.
Yeah, that's that's what they're going.
Oh, this isn't that, and they're confused by all of it, because it's all falling apart.
The other side will argue that Trump's a kind of god, won't they?
They also that that the to the right, Trump's a kind of god, and and that the process that's under unfolding here, even around Charlie Kirk, is about um a sort of deification, a kind of canonization.
But what again, when watching people's reaction to Kimmel and taking it like I people being all passionate about it, Joe, right?
I just watched some people like going, it's disgusting that Jimmy Kimmel, this is your free speech.
Like, have you ever watched Jimmy Kimmel?
It's just it's just chatting about like normal sh like top ten things like they're not talking about anything of any, it's not about meaningfulness, and that's another thing.
Like whether you hated Charlie Kirk or l uh or loved him, he was a demonstration that the culture was moving closer to issues that are relevant.
Even if you absolutely reject Christ or you absolutely reject conservatism, now there's this entire movement talking about those issues.
Like when, like just 20 years ago, it was like a Brittany Spears has got that fucking snake round her neck and she snogged Madonna, or like Usher's said a thing, you know, like you know, like now, like don't it already seem like who cares if Kanye West is saying the N-word or whatever?
Like, you know, don't things are hastening, like it's getting fast, it's getting fast.
Like what the point that I made earlier or yesterday in the show was when you saw um Kamala Harris using the conventional means of electioneering, going on Oprah Winfrey and getting a bunch of movie stars, whereas Trump went on Joe Rogan and people affiliated with him went on a bunch of podcasts.
Even though if you only looked at the superficial data, on one side it was middle-aged white men, Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, that's the sp tip of the spear of new media.
It's not the same game no more.
There's a new game, and Charlie Kirk has been murdered, I think, in part because you know, I'm not saying from a conspiratorial, more of a sort of a phenomenological perspective because he is he's the first person like that of note where something weird and radical has happened, and that's without getting into you know who did it and for what reason.
That's what it's almost beyond that.
It's almost beyond that at this point, is one of the things that's sort that we've been discussing.
Joe, mate, I wonder, like when you went as you did for us to the British Patriot March there, and I've already spoken to people since then that like, isn't it a bit racist, all this thing, and it's only about migration.
Tell me a few things, or like tell me, do you think that it's different from any other social movement that you've been affected by or impacted?
Do you feel like there's something about it that's authentic and real and deep, or do you think it's just another exploitable thing that'll end up leading to a more nationalistic political leader getting in in England?
No, it's definitely more authentic.
I mean, like it's interesting you say that about the car Charlie Kirk stuff, because there was a lot of people holding up signs and memorials to him and stuff like that, and even a few people walking acrosses and stuff, like there's a real revival starting to happen, and it's like an awakening, you can feel it, and talking to people there, man.
It was you know, I spoke to a priest, there was a priest there, and he was saying we need to bring Christ back, bring him back into government into schools.
We need to see a change, Christian values again, And I think that's what's starting to happen.
You know, we need it.
Yeah, and again, like just 20 years ago, it was ridiculous.
Like I suppose, see, we're one of the um metrics or devices we're using in my own interfacing with celebrity and fame and what we might call the culture.
And when I um hosted the MTV VMA awards, which is a kind of Babylon pinnacle, certainly for me it was, like in 2000 and whatever, uh, you know, 2005, 6, 7, 8, around that time.
Like, I the Jonas brothers were a big deal, and people were super fixated on their virginity, but it didn't seem like and the same with a lot of them Mickey Mouse club stars, like promise rings, they had the promise rings, they had the promise rings, and I'm a joke I made, is that they don't mean much unless they start wearing it on their dicks.
That's one of the jokes I made um at the time.
And like, um, and people have always been sort of fascinated with like the chastity, excuse me, I'll give myself cramp there, uh, like with the chastity of um Brittany Spears, like and um all of them.
Like, why are they so interested in Miley Cyrus's virginity and why are they so interested in that?
And like in our country with Charlotte Church, people get into it, like even chastity gets sexualized and perved over a little bit, it gets perved over.
They're not looking at it from a spiritual perspective, i.e.
the act of uh creation is where we are most like gods, and a special sanctity is reserved for sexual behaviour, and it requires guidance because it's a potent portal to an energy that can get misdirected.
The other thing that I said at them VMAs was um, as well as them silly jokes about the chastity rings of those lads there, was about George W. Bush.
I got a bunch of death threats, and what but what I can tell you is the things about it that were Christian, I remember there were critiques of George W. Bush and Tony Blair at the time, people were like asked whether or not they prayed together, like whether Blair and Bush prayed together about the bombing of Iraq.
That was one thing where Christianity was discussed, and of course, when I was briefly studying religion and politics, I heard that in a way you could regard that as Christian violence, that you know, if you want to, you know, if you're gonna because the critique they were offering is if you're gonna say that 9-11 is Muslim extremist violence, and we all know that there's some a lot more complications to that story these days, that perhaps you could say it's Christian violence when a Christian in vote commons country goes and bombs the Middle East in order to get resources or whatever, and that's a sort of an interesting argument.
But what I'm the point I'm trying to make is that it seems to me now that people are actually interested in a very Christ-centered version of Christianity, i.e., the living figure, the living resurrected figure, Jesus Christ, and how that has a kind of like we've talked about this before, a sort of a trippy impact on you.
Like when me and Jake and Dave were at the Bible Museum, the sort of feeling you get is a kind of like when looking at this uh ceramic mural floor recently uncovered in Israel from the second century AD,
where the symbol of the fish is used, yet martyrs female are named, and in Greek it inscribed is Christ is God, you get a kind of sense of oh my god, Jesus is in the room.
It's like a weird psychedelic feeling.
And the reason I'm bringing that up and the reason I'm using the word psychedelic is I can't rationally justify an adult man in the modern world, educated in the way that I've been educated, not to a high standard, but sort of within the terms of the culture and an autodidact that's read philosophy, suddenly accepting something, and I become aware of this because like you know, I'm Christian now, so I'm surrounded by Christians, and it's normalized, Christianity's normalized.
Sometimes it ain't vitalized enough, but it's normalized.
But where when I'm talking to people in England, they're like, you know, like sometimes I don't know if you guys ever get this, where you might feel a bit embarrassed, like, yeah, I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian when you're talking to someone that's like, so what do you mean by what you actually believe that God came to earth and then he died for your sins?
I don't know how how does that work, and then he rose again, and now because of that you're gonna know eternal life, you sort of feel like, yeah.
You're like, well, that's a fairy story, you idiot.
You know, that's what you feel like you're believing some, but it's because it's supernatural and it's outside the our ability to appreciate reality, and that's why when you study the word, you s it's you get the historical gut punch.
It's one of the things West Huff is good at is like, oh God, oh my god, here's like they're just talking about someone they knew.
Like Peter's talking about someone he knew, John's talking about somebody new, Paul is talking about someone he encountered, and then you feel like, oh my god, it's not that long ago.
Oh, it's not long ago, oh, it's now.
Like it's a sort of a that's the aspect of it that people need to reach for, otherwise they may reach for the sort of arsenal within it, the weapons within it, the mo the ability to use it.
What will Charlie Kirk's legacy be used for?
Will it eventually come to mean vote JD Vance?
Or will it mean surrender to Christ Jesus, never trust any human power?
It's all Babylon, it's all Babylon.
How crazy is it that you are a Christian now?
Like if you thought about it back then.
Like you ever imagine that you would be a believer.
When I was married to Katie Perry and her dad and mum are like sort of pastors, I remember just thinking it was like some sort of eccentric quirk of hers that she'd grown up in that environment.
And when I met Christians, I only liked the ones that could talk about it in a kind of mystical way.
But now I know that in itself is a sort of a pretty deep tradition and has well, it's obviously mystical and entirely mystical, but someone like Thomas Merton who will help me to understand it, or or Brother Lawrence, like T or Augustine or Aquinas, like they help you to understand the philosophy of it and the beingness of it, the ontology of it.
Like when I'm irritated and angry and frustrated about my day, like of how am I gonna, where is Jesus now?
How am I gonna move towards Christ now?
What does it mean?
How does it not become nihilistic?
It's ridiculous because I was an addict, Dave.
I'm an addict, and it's very difficult to get past the layers of worship of addiction, like literal drugs and alcohol, chemical addictions, but then the more subtle forms of addiction, like uh sex and sleeping around.
And I feel so blessed now to be really well schooled in that, to be really, really well schooled in addiction and the consequences addiction, the fallibility of addiction.
It was a long time ago, someone like I was making when I was um I think it might have been even before allegations and accusations, like I was just married and living there for a monogamous life, and I was like, I won't say the name because it would be wrong and potentially liable.
But I was thinking about another famous person who likes sleeps with lots and lots of women who's super famous but married and high profile married, and I was like, ah come easy allowed to do that.
And so I went, yeah, but that's like being jealous of someone that's still using drugs or someone that's still drinking.
That person's living in in deception and delusion.
And it's there is a grief in letting go of worldliness.
There is a grief in letting go of carnality, and I think all of us feel around the edges of our life, the kind of pull of well, I want money, I want control, I want power.
And but like the thing about what's happening right now at this moment with the death of Charlie Kirk and with what looks like the death froze of a culture in a way, and I don't mean you know, I mean like the the Jimmy Kimmel stuff, like they were gonna cancel that dude anyway because the the viewers were in decline, but that's and I don't think it's a free speech issue.
I think they're making it a free speech issue so that it's got some juice in it.
I think both sides will get off on that.
Who gives there was no relevant free speech going on on late night TV?
They're saying sit in your chair, vote for one of these two parties, preferably this one, buy these products, take that vaccine, shut your mouth.
Oh no, don't shut that down.
Yeah, because even uh you know, uh if the left gets cancelled or the right gets cancelled, like uh Roseanne, people are using the Roseanne example when she got cancelled, then who decides who gets cancelled when?
If they're you know, who decides?
Because they'll the left will say, Well, that's justified, they got cancelled, the right will say that's justified, he got cancelled, but even that it's gotta go further than that.
Who's even the judge to even decide?
Same thing with the morality police in the UK.
How do you have a morality police when you have no morality?
You have no God because you're saying he doesn't exist or he's not important.
How do we even decide?
We need to surrender, we need to die to ourselves.
So the Charlie Kirk thing is a shat it's uh it's like glass shattering, and I think there are it's this it's this facade that's being broken down, and so I think in the midst of all that, there's gonna be people that are gonna try to use it for political power.
There's gonna be people that are gonna try to use it to gain more followers.
All of that's gonna happen, but I also hope, and I see it in the midst of all that, there's still a lot of genuine things happening that God's stirring hard.
Yeah, because God is real, yeah.
So it's so God's presence will use it, will have sort of appear in it like iron filings round a magnet, which is the image of the cross that I start to feel as I came to our Lord or as our Lord came to me.
And it I suppose, Jake, what we're interested in is not the mobilization of ideas to win an argument as demonstrated when, oh yeah, no, it's okay to like people on the right saying, Well, it's okay to cancel Jimmy Kimmel because actually Jimmy Kimmel was making a joke about that.
When you see it, it's pretty innocuous, really, and pretty sort of meaningless and trite.
Uh uh, how could it not be?
Um, but instead, what you want to see is a sort of the glimpse of eternity, because how can any well, as you just said, very clearly, where is authority derived from?
What is your basis for even making the claim that there's such a thing as right and wrong?
I watched the other day that film from ages ago, some you know, The Martian, and in the film The Martian, it's clearly a celebration of man's scientific endeavour.
Matt Damon's astronaut character gets left on Mars uh but as something goes wrong on a mission, and as a botanist, he's able to sustain himself for a couple of years until the ingenuity of his colleagues at NASA facilitates his rescue.
In one very notable scene, he pulls apart the crucifix of his departed colleague in order to create he has to create an explosion for some sort of agricultural reason and to you know separate water and stuff like that.
Anyway, the film delights in the idea that it's in fact human endeavour that saves us and human ingenuity that saves us.
But even in a film that clearly prizes those ideas, the allegiance of the of the astronauts that return to rescue their colleague comes from what?
What is the allegiance?
Why do they want to rescue him?
Why is it right to rescue him?
What is right?
And even when atheists, and that God knows there's some real clever atheists out there, say I don't need a God in order to behave correctly, that isn't the argument.
The argument is you need a God in order to claim there's such a thing as correctly.
Yeah.
There is no correctly if unless there's a got a God to tell you what correct is.
Otherwise, anyone else's argument is as good as yours.
I just happen to like being nice to puppies.
Well, I like strangling them and drinking their blood.
What's your what which one's good, which one's bad if there's no God?
How do we know?
And and then the whole thing starts to seem ridiculous because what is beauty?
What is mathematics?
What is geometry?
What are these apparent patterns?
The patterns of the world that we're not meant to conform to, actually, the divine and sublime patterns that are in uh that are indicatively present as a result of the patterns of the world or the patterns that we ought to be pursuing, according to our Lord and uh the interpretation of our Lord's words by St. Paul, certainly in Romans, like that you can't make no claim for anything until you first accept God.
And what's happening now, I think, is instead of the vaguely pagan ideas of God that the culture will afford you, and paganism will mean your identity is God, your sexuality is God, nature is God, the earth is God.
You're a nation.
There's all sorts of false pantheonistic uh designations and destinations for your tendency to worship.
By the way, why do you have that?
Why are you made to worship?
Why do you need to worship something?
Why do you need to worship a football team or drugs or sex or something?
What is that?
So, yeah, this does seem like a different revival.
And I feel like we're somehow participating.
Well, we're in it somehow.
We're in it.
I don't know what to do.
Yeah, because we'll think that it's just us.
Like we'll go, man, God's really moving in the three of us, and you start realising it's not the just the three of us, or the four of us with Joe, or it's more, it's happening on a bigger scale.
It's something that's larger beyond just our friend group.
And I think these um events like the tragedy with Charlie Kirk, sort of push things forward for what God wants to do.
And it might siphon through, you know, people trying to gain different political advantages, and I think we can still, through that siphoning, get some really moving, powerful things of God to happen.
If you're watching us anywhere other than on Rumble, click the link in the description and join us over on Rumble right now.
We're talking about revival and we're talking about Christ.
In a way, though, if you're not Christian, don't worry, because in Christianity, we love everyone.
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That's how you'll know.
Like, even again, that's when talking About uh Christian Christian nationalism, that can never work as an idea.
It can never work.
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Now back to the content.
Like the term Christian nationalism, it's a sort of high, is a thing that people have always been kind of nervous about, and it's the kind of language that I would have used once.
But the kind of Christianity I'm interested in is the kind that Erica Kirk demonstrates when forgiving her shooter.
Let's have a little look at that and let's talk about the concept of forgiveness and the standard that you can be held to once you declare you're a Christian.
Like if you say I'm a Christian, then I suppose people can go, well, what's this shit then?
And then obviously you've got ready as your uh repost, sorry for swearing.
Uh obviously you've got for your repost, I'm broken, I'm fallen, or whatever, but you can't stay in your fallenness without you have to repent.
That's what that's the principle of repentance.
Let's um first of all have a look at uh Erica Kirk.
Uh we've watched it before, um, but I think it's obviously bloody hell.
It's pretty powerful.
My husband Charlie.
He wanted to save young man.
just like the one who took his life.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's a large crowd to try to control the timing of a clap.
So it's like the trickle in of uh, like, oh, that's what she's saying.
Big bounce off the back of that last year.
What's it?
100,000 in there.
That's a lot, yeah.
Yeah, you know, she's gonna have to it's in spite of not only she gotta pass through her grief and the tragedy that she must be personally encountering, she's gonna deploy the technical skills of knowing when the bounce of her voice is coming off the back of that auditorium to wait for an applause in a pretty tricky situation.
Yeah, that's a difficult situation to um to manage for sure.
That young man.
That young man.
On the cross, our savior said.
Father, forgive them For they not know what they do.
That man.
That young man.
I forgive him.
I suppose the reason people will be highlight quite rightly that moment is it's a demonstration of values that go beyond the values that our culture can offer us.
Our culture will offer us the death penalty.
That'll be one of the narratives.
Death penalties available in Utah.
He should get it.
But actually.
Yeah, I know the message of sublime and supreme compassion.
I was thinking about John Paul the second and that assassination attempt, what uh I think it was an Algerian lad shot him.
And um, like Pope John Paul forgave him, visited him, became good friends, lobbied for his release.
I mean, it's why that lights you up.
That lights you up to live to that standard because you're conforming not to the pattern of this world, you're transcending the standard of this world.
And when you know that this world can't ever fulfill you, you've got no choice.
I mean, what choices she got?
The Erica Kirk, she's got to go through that.
What that they're you know, whenever people lose someone that they love, you have to You've got to receive the lesson, haven't you?
You've got to receive whatever lesson is kind of knotted and woven and knitted into that, because otherwise, on its own terms, life becomes unlivable, unlivable.
And I suppose to be able to be grateful when your life collapses, or when the unbearable or the unforgivable happens, that is presence of his supreme power.
One of the things I like about Brother Lawrence and his uh little collection of writings, the practice of the presence of God is his unfussiness.
He says he lives as if him and God are the only people in the world and he's in constant dialogue with God, and when he messes up, he says, I just say, says Brother Lawrence, this is as this is as good as I can do without you.
This is as good as I can do without you.
I don't I'm not that good.
I like the you know, like in it like we're in this um we're being invited to participate in all of these systems and all these hierarchies, and I gosh, it's difficult for me.
I find it very hard to accept just go and be a member of a church, go and just be a person, be but like it's changing in me.
Like that I want to be obedient.
I don't really like I want to be with my wife and kids.
I just want to be with my wife and kids, really, and I want to, and the only place I can actually do that is from a perspective from a position of connection to him and surrender to him.
Simple, humble Christianity.
Again, like part of the challenge of coming to Christ is I think for people that have been coached either on cynicism and scepticism or or the worship of intelligence, is that how can I just believe in the same thing as some old lady, or like these people you see like Christians in like Africa somewhere, like that you think I can't believe what they believe, these simple folk.
And actually, you can.
Now, one of the things that people like, you know, if we're we're trying to understand revival, the last significant, I suppose, uh well, you I'm sure there have been other revivals, but uh Billy Graham's name still looms large in the imaginary, obviously, Mount Rushmore of uh influential Christian teachers of the latter day.
And I'm very interested in what was unique about Billy Graham.
We know like a couple of his grandsons and like all of them, as you might imagine, are involved in ministry one way or another.
What is it that you Billy Graham did so well?
What was so powerful?
Why was he so influential?
So influential in fact that her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II was impacted.
That's according to the crown.
That's uh that's uh that's not my research, that's the crowns.
Let's have a look at um Billy Graham.
First of all, here he is uh in Yankee Stadium.
This is in I guess the uh 960s, I suppose, this revival.
check it out This is Yankee Stadium, New York.
This is an historic hour.
You're attending by television, the largest evangelistic gathering together in American history, the Glimactic meeting of the Billy Graham, New York Crusade.
By nine this morning, the parking lot adjacent to the ballpark were filling up.
By mid-afternoon, they were overflowing.
Tonight, not a seat remains unoccupied in a stadium that can hold 80,000, and others line the infield and outfield to a point of saturation.
It beggars belief that one other individual can be crowded into these premises.
All of the gates of Yankee Stadium have been closed.
Thousands of others are milling about out on the extra perimeter of Yankee Stadium beyond the confines.
One of the things about our i incessantly updating online lives these days is sometimes you'll just look at an image of a French train in 1970 or a British street in 1989, and everything already seems sepious-soaked and idyllic.
But what were they looking for the thousands of people in Yankee Stadium that day?
What was happening in America then?
Where was America in its own trajectory?
And how did that revivalist energy get directed back into self-sustaining systems of political power?
Because I feel like uh you told me, Jake, that Richard Nixon, then vice president, introduces Billy Graham.
So we're you know, we're prior his president prior to his presidency, prior to the murder of JFK, the Vietnam, the Vietnam War, and like you know, sort of in a sense, the what many people regard as the ending of American innocence.
So just prior to that, you know, our Lord gives you Billy Graham Yankee Stadium, Satan gives you Vietnam.
It's like the Chicago way, honey.
They pull a knife, you pull a gun, they send one of yours to the hospital, we send one of yours to the morgue.
We are in spiritual warfare, and that's one of the things that I think is also pe prevail prevalent.
People are sort of getting aware of what a demons real demons and angels and entities.
Because when you're believing in Christianity, you're not just believing in a kind of a moral purview, you're not just believing that God came to earth, the creator of the simulation entered the simulation and paid the debt that you could never pay because debt has to get paid, it's somehow like a kind of mathematics.
You're also believing in virgin births and demons and nephilim and giants and beasts and creatures and holy warfare and the end game and Armageddon.
There's quite a lot, and it's very difficult to secularise, isn't it?
Interesting.
In fact, the project of secularization is to impact and affect the canvas of reality to the point where even that conversation seems implausible and ridiculous.
And think about the kind of things that the your Alex Jones is and your David Ike's your kind of early forefathers of the internet, you might call them, the conspiracy theory generators, the early adapters, the people that sort of will come on your TV set in the mid-1980s and and say, look, You know, Osama bin Laden's going to blow up the Twin Towers before 9-11, markedly and importantly.
Or reptilians are in control of your kids'minds or are controlling the media.
You know, it's pretty interesting that there's this potent supernatural dimension to it.
And it's pretty interesting that we've been trained to reject that.
Yeah, I mean, and this is crazy to see to go back in time and watch this footage and to see that this was you know a hundred thousand people all coming to see Billy Graham to hear the gospel, Richard Nixon's up there giving the introduction, it's America, but there's not a guarantee that just because a bunch of people gather and that you know Billy Graham speaks, that it's just gonna lead to some utopian state of society.
There's there's a bigger picture at play that God's doing across the world, and it's also timing matters.
So I wonder like we could watch all this stuff that's going on with Charlie Kirk, who you know, from all these people gathering in some beautiful moments that are even happening, worship and people turning to God, and we just have to make sure we don't try to control it, and we don't try to monetize it somehow.
Then we don't try to put our faith in even if a president is up there saying Christian things, or if Richard Nixon's doing the introduction.
Jesus has to be the main focus.
Yeah, that's the final killing of the individualistic spirit, which I think stands in for the Judaic law that Paul is talking about when he argues with Peter for removing the necessity for circumcision for new believers.
That now it's not Judaic law or Phariseism that might contain or restrict a person, me, you, whoever.
But individualism, materialism, your true devoutness to the culture, like that what that where I get my personal, it's not even authority, it's simply testimony, is that I believe that I was so immersed in individualism that addiction is an expression of individualism that all you care about is how am I gonna look after this individual little god in me, the self.
How am I gonna stay in self in my sinful nature?
How am I gonna live in that?
It's so curious, too, that the Lord invites us to come as little children to make ourselves innocent again and to open our hearts and to walk towards him with a not gullibility or foolishness, but with the innocence of a child, which means a kind of the casting off.
Can you see it when you sit next to a child somewhere?
You feel their radiant innocence, a young baby, their open-heartedness, their open eyes as they look at the world.
It's very difficult to do that, to to identify with that kind of that level of d open dependency and its beautiful, fragile power.
But the state demands too that you become dependent, dependent on its ideas, sometimes dependent on it financially, dependent on its ideology, dependent on its information.
And in a way, the last apostles of the falling state, when you see Barack Obama saying, I don't know what we're gonna do, and we used to have goodies on both sides.
George W. Bush was a good guy.
They're advocating for the state is God, the state is God.
I think he even alluded to the idea, a car a popular contemporary idea that your faith in God should be some private thing you do in a nook.
Get off in your little nook and worship your little personal harmless God, like it's a Tamagotchi, and then get out here and spend your money with us and our real God with Mollock.
Get out here and sacrifice what we want you to sacrifice.
If we want you to sacrifice your your innocence, you sacrifice it.
If we want you to sacrifice your children, you'll sacrifice them.
If you want your but if we want you to sacrifice your bodily autonomy through injections, you'll sacrifice it.
Your lives to fight in some stupid, dumb ideological war, whether that's the wars of the last century or the dumb wars of this one.
They want your fealty, they want your sacrifices, they want your allegiance, and they don't even have the good grace to tell you that it's a religion that they are selling you even as they sell it.
Um let's have a look at a bit more of this.
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Let's have a look at uh Billy Graham at Yankee Stadium.
Lines of the stadium itself, and those will be served by loud speakers that have been placed there for their convenience.
Up until this moment, the greatest crowd ever to attend one evangelistic meeting in the United States was in the Cotton Bowl Dallas.
1953.
75,000 were there.
More than 100,000 are here.
And now we have a very special guest this evening, and we're going to ask Mr. Billy Graham to come and introduce that guest for us.
I think the man that I'm going to introduce is probably one of the hardest working men in the United States.
He has certainly brought new lobster to the office of vice president.
He has become America's.
Wow, Lord choose him.
Is it the eyes?
He's got like nice glassy blue eyes.
Yeah.
Yeah, probably all those things.
He was probably like, oh, he's tall.
You like it?
It's nice and tall.
Yeah.
He's a nice tall man for you.
He'll he'll say, I'll do it.
I mean, that was all the time things like Johnny Cash and everybody was sort of like you have to be bold to really go for something in that time.
Now it's like people don't even want real jobs.
Everybody wants to go for something.
Like I'm an artist.
I'm a but back then you gotta work the farm.
So to go completely against culture, you gotta be a little crazy.
Right.
You know?
Yeah, so like Billy Graham's in the mix of all those guys.
Like there are like a few of them.
Like, oh we'll play music.
Well, you're supposed to work the farm.
I'm gonna do music now.
And that's what I could go like everybody's a musician now.
Now you're like, no, like go work the farm.
Go work the farm.
Go back and get a real job.
Grow us a potato.
But in that time you had to have some real cahoonies to go out and then and especially to do something like this.
I'm not working the farm.
I'm gonna be in a glassy-eyed evangelist.
And I will break the record set at the dust bowl.
He has become America's number one ambassador of goodwill.
It's been my privilege to follow in some of his footsteps in other parts of the world and found his pocket.
Isn't it amazing that if you worship the culture, you'll be baffled to learn that what he's about to say is please welcome Stage Richard Nixon.
Up until the modern era, he would have been the very epitome of a corrupt politician.
I am not a crock.
Like he was like sort of seen as the president that it's okay to not like because of Watergate and stuff.
But since then the culture's become so demonically charged that you either really really hate Obama or you really really hate Trump or you really really hate sort of everybody.
There's so much hatred.
Like this is such an innocent time.
But the culture will let you down.
The culture of Richard Nixon will let you down.
Well, and people can be good at one point, or you know, go for the right goals and have great motives and then fail.
So like if you want they will.
If if if they're doing it for any other reason other than God just use me, that's the whole, you know, this is the best I can do.
God just use me.
It's like even when you're listening to Richard Nixon, you don't have to watch the whole thing, but him just talking, it sounds like a great guy.
A lot of people say it was alright.
Yeah, like it sounds pretty good.
So that guy goes on to what he does, you know.
It's possible for for any of us to do that.
Also, by the way, is it like again, the whole thing, but for good and for ill is the packaging of the culture.
Like Richard Nixon, one minute we need him to represent a vice president of virtue and then a president that's virtuous and part of the process of the grieving of JFK.
Oh, now we kind of need him to be absolutely vilified.
Now I know events take place, but what the culture is so adept and so marvelous at is the exploitation of events.
It's like a big enough, loose enough network of nodes all converging on their agenda to like whether it's oh, there's been you know, some Houthis are doing some activity in the Suez Canal, uh, Venezuela have done this, oh there's a missile's gone off in Poland, oh woman's been murdered on a train, cracker barrel have changed their logo, the machine goes brom, this is how we use that.
This is where we direct that energy, and it will use anyone.
Like, don't you sometimes think as like much more uh deeply um uh uh educated and practiced Christians than me?
That like the church gets like that's the sometimes you feel the presence of the evil one right there in them institutions, and you would, wouldn't you?
If you take the Bible uh literally in the places that you're supposed to, then you would accept that the devil, the evil one, El Diablo, Bielzebub, the necromancer, the follower of the left band path, he that walks backwards, he's in charge, he's in charge of the earth, he's directing events down here.
That's how he's able to offer Christ that authority.
That's why Paul's telling you you're not fighting flesh, you're fighting against principalities of dark spiritual power.
And like that's what I feel now, and you can't do that by the that the dark principality of spiritual power, it's not the red side or the blue side, depending on one of the things that's really good about me.
Uh, I would tell you, is I've not memorized of your two political parties which one's red and which one's blue.
So I actually don't know.
When people go it's a blue state, I'll have to go, all right.
Hold on.
Um what does that mean again?
The red one, because it's the opposite way to my one, I think.
Red is Trump and blue is Democrat.
Yeah, yeah.
In my country, red is like the Labour Party, red blood, red flag, communism, all of that, and the blue is the blue, blue blood, posh people.
We've got a whole different sort of uh system of analysis and evaluation over here.
Oh, yeah.
So what do you think about how the church and the message of Christ does get used to mess people up?
100%.
I think for sure, I think church culture in America is probably one of the biggest tools for the devil.
I mean, it's it's a culture of look at me, I'm okay, everything's good.
I don't have any problems.
I mean, they basically disqualify themselves from needing the Lord.
You know, it should be the opposite.
It should be more like an AA meeting when you're going in there.
Going.
And I'm screwed up.
I need help.
I need Jesus.
In a current state.
No, it it's I don't know.
I think church culture, I don't think it's any specific church.
And I think I don't know if it'll I don't know.
When I when I've gone to church in other places, it seems a lot different than in America.
Seems a lot more genuine.
It seems a lot smaller, it seems more communal.
I don't know if we're meant to have huge, massive like businesses as churches.
Oh man, that's really interesting.
But I I see that as like when I've been because I've been to a lot of 12-step meetings, and like 12-step meetings take on the inflections of the environment they're in.
Like I've been to ones that are in rural communities in Britain, and it's of course all sort of like farmers and stuff, or you go to one in Sydney and everyone's well, I might like you know, like there's what you would expect there, a couple of gay folks, couple of like sort of tough sort of Aussies, a surfer, you know, and then I've been in New York and I've been in LA and I've been and like it bears the inflection.
Um and I think the church and 12-step programs have the same challenge.
That if you're not careful, the evil one is such a crafty, he's a crafty devil, Satan, be El Zabub, he walks backwards, is that what will happen is that church or 12-step programs will default to do this so that you can go back and get money.
And that's one of the things I find sort of a bit odd about right now.
You know, like they what happened is church will be an accompl accompaniment to your normal life.
That's an accompaniment rather to your normal life.
If you go to church, you might be able to get a wife and get a job and all that.
If you go 12-step program, you might be able to get a job.
No, if you've really believed in God, then you'll sort of be out live like St. Paul or St. Francis, just go, alright, I'm just here for a while, I'm here to make disciples and spread the message.
I don't care.
I don't not I don't care, but I'm not defined by what happens here.
And sometimes like people, like back in the UK, talk to me as if like my end point would be, oh then I'll be out get a film done.
I like you know, it's sort of it but I bridle at it.
I bridle, and I'm sick and I'm sickened by that in others when they think that I would want to try and get back into that world.
That's why I'm sort of glad to see that world collapsing, because I'm like, well, it'sn't there it ain't gonna be there to go back to.
There ain't gonna be a Hollywood, they're already in one.
Don't remember in COVID when they did the Oscars, and it was like from a dungeon.
Do you remember that?
I was like, yeah, good.
It's actually it's becoming what it's supposed to become.
It's like, hey, we're doing the Oscars from this cellar.
Let's keep pretending that not everyone's a paedophile.
Now coming to the stage, a paedophile!
Oh, I mean an actor that's good at acting.
Shut up, this is important.
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