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July 9, 2025 - Stay Free - Russel Brand

01:21:41

Fighting the Devil and Winning – Bas Rutten on Faith, Demons, and Discipline - SF611

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	Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Brand and Russell controversial conspiracy theorist trying to bring real journalism to the American people.
	Hello there, you awakening wonders.
	Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Prand.
	I have to have a nurse at all times now.
	I am not a well man.
	Thank you, Nurse Nikki.
	Nurse, the screens for the first 15 minutes will be available on X and YouTube.
	Ultimately, we want you to join us on Rumble and Rumble Premium for, frankly, an unbelievable conversation with my beloved friend, Bas Rutten.
	Bas Rutten, as you know, is a great mixed martial artist, entrepreneur, and actor.
	He was the first ever Rogan guest to take Joe Rogan over a million views.
	What I thought I was dealing with when chatting to Bas Rutten is a kind of raw primordial force that could be directed towards any number of things, like a sort of a Niagara of energy that if it was able to flow towards chaos, it would.
	And if directed through the Heavenly Father and Lord, it would create all sorts of positive things.
	We talked to him about his O2 product, which is a device that helps you to breathe more deeply and better.
	We talk about martial arts, entrepreneurialism, and faith.
	It's a fantastic conversation.
	Thanks so much for joining us.
	Without further dilly-dallying, here is my conversation with Bass Rutten.
	Bas, thank you so much for joining us today.
	You're very welcome.
	Looking forward to this.
	Yeah.
	One of the things that made me most excited to talk to you was that, in a sense, you midwifed Joe Rogan over the million mark, as well as being a Catholic, as well as being, it sounds like sort of inventor and innovator, early UFC warrior.
	But I'd like to start off firstly, of course, by extending my gratitude to you for joining us today and asking you about how you came to Christ.
	Oh, well, I was baptized, you know, named after a badass saint, Saint Sebastian, the guy who got martyred twice.
	But then when we were 12, around that age, I think my mom and dad, they didn't believe anymore.
	I saw a book where, you know, one cell and that turned into everything.
	And I guess that was it.
	And we didn't go to church anymore.
	So then many years later, after living a crazy life, non-Catholic life, I was with my buddy in the movie set.
	Well, first of all, things started happening to me.
	I got to go in that first.
	So let me tell the whole thing.
	So I took a lot of medication as a kid.
	I was very sick as a kid.
	Had rheumatic fever, spent four months in the hospital, had a leaking heart fault, just had an ablation done because of that.
	Like this whole thing, horrible skin disease.
	That was the leper in school.
	Severe asthma attacks, like every five weeks, a week in bed, not able to eat, have to do everything in bed.
	So it was a really tough life.
	And I took a lot of medication and I forgot a lot of things.
	But there's this one thing that always stuck out.
	And it was me looking at a tree in the classroom.
	I was 10 years old.
	I can literally, I can smell the room.
	I can be there.
	It was so vivid.
	It was crazy.
	And the teacher tried to get a hold of me.
	And I know he was.
	And I heard the kids laughing.
	And suddenly he got angry.
	And he says, what are you doing?
	I said, I'm looking at the tree.
	And he goes, what about the tree?
	I said, how did it get there?
	And he said, well, they planted it there, idiot.
	And I go, yeah, I understand that.
	But if you go to the tree before and the tree before, you go all the way back.
	Where do trees come from?
	And he just thought that was crazy.
	But that always stuck with me for somehow.
	I don't know why.
	Then I get this crazy life.
	Then I started drinking after I retired fighting, start doing drugs.
	You know, you try to replace that feeling, I guess, you know, from fighting in front of 15, 16,000 people with something else, which for me was drugs and alcohol.
	And although I'm always a happy guy dancing with the kids and doing funny things, it's still stupid.
	You know, I'm not a real man.
	I'm not a real husband.
	I'm not a real father.
	But at that time, I started getting attacked by a demon in the house.
	And it was very freaking scary.
	Some people say, oh, sleeper illnesses.
	Well, sleeper ultis, you're paralyzed.
	I wasn't.
	I could move my arms.
	I could move my legs, but there was something sitting on my chest, it felt like something super heavy and pushing and pushing.
	And I tried to get it off of me with my arms, but it was almost like it was sitting here.
	So I couldn't really go around.
	Tried to throw my legs out of bed, tried to pull myself out, couldn't move it.
	The only way to get out of it was to just get mentally super aggressive.
	And then I would just shout a lot of profanity at the time.
	And my wife would wake up.
	And again, I go, yeah, again.
	And I start challenging this ghost, whatever it was.
	I wanted to fight it.
	I said, well, don't wait till I'm asleep.
	You know, let's do it right now if you're so tough.
	So that kept going on.
	It happened like five times.
	One time I came home with the family.
	I just drove.
	I wasn't drinking.
	I just stepped into the house and I felt there was somebody in the house.
	And I grabbed my phone, one of these old Star Tech phones, on 911.
	I doubt.
	I gave it to my wife.
	I said, if you hear something, call.
	I said, but don't worry.
	I know where all the weapons are.
	And I thought this guy was in the house and he was in the dining room area.
	There was a wall, dining room area here.
	And here was the open kitchen, which led in the back to the dining area as well.
	Now, in front of, there was a door from the dining area to the kitchen.
	And we had a really thick curtain hanging there instead of a door.
	And I thought that person was there.
	So I start making a lot of noise here.
	Hopefully he would do this.
	And then I make a U-turn.
	Or he comes to me.
	I make a U-turn and I'm going to grab the guy.
	So I come running around the corner and the curtain flies up against the ceiling.
	So I kept running because somebody just ran through it.
	But there was nothing in the house.
	And that was really like, okay, that just happened.
	And it wasn't moving.
	It flew up against the ceiling.
	Okay, so now I started challenging that thing.
	I don't know why I did or knew at 3 a.m. was the time when the demonic activity is at this highest, right?
	3 p.m.
	Jesus passed away, 3 a.m.
	But I did.
	At 3 a.m. in the dining room, under the chandelier, because it was always cold there.
	It was a really weird place.
	And I started just challenging it, challenging it.
	Let's do this and bring it down to my level, you know, and let's see if we can fight this out.
	And then it stopped.
	But then I was still drinking, so I decided to take another fight after seven years of not competing.
	My wife says, you're crazy.
	I go, no, I take the fight because there's no way I can drink and trade.
	So this is Going to stop me from drinking.
	And it worked out, everything was good.
	We made the money.
	We went to a different house with the pool.
	And there, the first night, when we, in the morning, I asked my kids how the first night was.
	And one slept upstairs.
	And she said, well, I had a, it was good, but I had a visit from two boys.
	And I go, you mean spirits?
	And she goes, yes.
	I go, honey, you're not freaking out.
	She goes, no, because they were very nice.
	One kept playing on the bed, but then finally I asked him to please stop.
	And he stopped.
	And I look at my wife, I go, I go to the computer.
	Did ever something happen in my house?
	Well, in 2001, four kids, a girl, oh, and I asked also what age?
	16, 17, she said.
	Four kids in the car went through a wall next to her home.
	Two kids died.
	Two boys, 16 and 17 years old, old.
	And she didn't know that.
	So now I knew, okay, something is going on here.
	Then I started filming a movie, Malkop 2.
	And my buddy, he said to me in a break, we had to go to the room to eat the food, whatever it was.
	He said, hey, why don't you sit here, listening to this guy, because he's going to talk about how the world came together.
	I said, okay.
	So I'm sitting in there.
	If he would have said Jesus or he would have said God, I would have left.
	And I said, you'll see me in an hour.
	But he didn't say that.
	Let's see how the world came together.
	And I'm smoking the cigar, sitting at the cabana at the wind hotel, at the pool.
	And he starts talking.
	And the first thing that he says is the leaf fell from the tree.
	He says that leaf just reached its end destination.
	He says, let's backtrack that leaf.
	And he goes to the branch.
	And then he goes to the tree before.
	He goes to the tree before.
	And he starts backpedaling.
	And I'm sitting there and I go like, I know this story from somewhere, right?
	And the way he did that.
	And eventually there was Leo Severino.
	He's a very smart theologian.
	It was, yeah, it was right away.
	I knew that we are a design.
	Now and then, going from God to a designer, which is, yeah, that's a very small step.
	And boom, that was it.
	I was back into the faith.
	I like the extraordinary synchronicity that the person that brought you to faith used an image that you were predisposed to respond to because your own inkling that there were ulterior realities had been peaked by your own contemplation of that tree as a boy.
	I liken it to the rich young man in the gospel of, is it Matthew, who says to the Lord, what do I got to do?
	And he says, love God with all your heart.
	I do that already.
	Love your neighbor as you love thyself.
	I do that already.
	All right, then, leave everything you have and follow me.
	And like the young man sighed because he knew he wouldn't be able to do that.
	And I wonder if when you talk about these supernatural encounters, Bass, it's clear to me that the world of the senses and the world of our human understanding is limited.
	It's clear to me that the natural leads almost organically to the supernatural.
	Indeed, I think of many of the saints, in particular St. Francis, that St. Francis experienced the supernatural through the natural.
	Like these demonic encounters that you're describing are pretty intense, but I've got a real feeling that you were, I could feel that you were telling the truth.
	And I've had other people, I've never had an encounter like that that's so explicit, vivid, lurid, and clear as you're describing.
	You can go to whichever arm.
	But I've heard people talk about demonic experiences.
	I'm getting an NADIV, Bass.
	Do you ever get those?
	I had one in Dubai like six weeks ago or so when I was there.
	What do you think about it?
	I felt great, but you know, I was so tired till last year, I didn't know what was going on.
	And apparently, I was in an AFib.
	So I did atrial fibrillation for a year.
	And my heart has already a leaking heart fall for when I was a kid.
	When I was four months in the hospital, that was rheumatic fever.
	So it didn't know how to freaking do everything anymore.
	And I started getting more and more tired.
	So it didn't do anything at that time because it was just my heart.
	But then once I came back and had an ablation done like four or five weeks ago, it was like immediately back to life.
	Blood pressure down, heartbeat down, everything was good.
	And then I started actually feeling really good, which I do right now.
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	You had a pretty extraordinary life, the ill health that you described as a child going on to confront physical threat and live in combat in the way that you've described.
	It seems that you've been chosen to tell a very, very particular story and to demonstrate some very, very unusual ideas.
	And like I was saying about the demonic thing there, sometimes when you said that about like feeling the weight on your chest, sometimes that's where I feel it most.
	Like I feel like I'm encountering something there.
	I recently went back to the UK where I have some tribulations that seem to me somehow demonic.
	And when I consider Ephesians and the dark power and the dark authority, I feel like that plays out for sure in human institutions through human power.
	And I sense that the way that the evil one has taken control of the world, the authority that he says in scripture that he has in his, you know, when tempting our Lord, I feel that power has captured media, a lot of government, the normalization of evil is like happening sort of at scale in our culture.
	yeah, do what you've got to do, mate.
	Do what you've got to do.
	And it's very interesting to me to discuss with you a voyage and a journey and a walk that's included sort of frailty and vulnerability as a child that I really strongly identify with.
	Trouble with addiction that I strongly identify with.
	And I wonder if you agree with me that addiction is, I believe, and so do the sort of people that came up with the 12-step program that I'm able one day at a time to use to stay clean and free, that addiction is an attempt to sanctify and make spiritual the material.
	That our thirst for God and our hunger for the holy is so strong that you have to have God and that you find one by one that the false idols can never give it to you.
	Sex can't give it to you.
	Fame can't give it to you.
	Money can't give it to you.
	So in the end, you have to introduce chemicals which can at least alter your state.
	Do you recognize that your own addiction and alcoholism had a spiritual component?
	Do you agree with that diagnosis that you were trying to do a spiritual job for yourself?
	I love that.
	Yeah, but at that time it was like pushing love away or pushing bad feelings.
	It was like I was this guy who always felt good, always glass half full, always happy, always.
	And I think after fighting, it left, I don't know, something happened that I couldn't fight anymore and it really left the whole edge start to try to fill that.
	But it's pleasure.
	So to me, I see it's more now when I look back over the whole path.
	Yes, I know this is God.
	I mean, from the get-go, giving my diseases, I become a fighter.
	I start beating bullies up.
	And then slowly but surely now I'm talking to you.
	You see, so 100%, I believe that is God.
	But in the beginning, I think that I got attacked a lot by the devil with God allowing it.
	Because of course, for him, and I always tell people this, this is the craziest thing, you know, for him, his whole existence, whatever he did, everything is one act for him.
	You know, there's no time.
	So for him, the whole creation, what he did, it's still going.
	He never was.
	He never will be.
	He is.
	So he knew automatically, well, he knows automatically.
	So we think like that, but he doesn't think like that since he's outside of time and space.
	So he allowed all that to do.
	It's like a guy finds a wallet and he thinks, hallelujah, I got it.
	Oh, I want to buy a new TV.
	I check the money for the TV.
	And then he praises God, but that's the devil.
	But it's God allowing it to happen just to see what he's going to do with it.
	Does he take the right course, the wrong course?
	Put him on the path.
	I'll slowly but surely, because I believe everybody has like a Catholic conscience, at least a Christian conscience.
	We know what is right and what is wrong, right?
	And we know what ultimately is the best for us.
	So he knows that it's wrong.
	The problem with going wrong, once you go too many times wrong, that wrong becomes so easy to do.
	That's addiction, right?
	It's addiction, but it's also everything in your mind.
	So then you keep doing it.
	And then the way to get out of it is by most of the time a hard fall, rock bottom.
	That's what they say, you know, with drinking and drugs.
	Falling so hard that you, yeah, you understand that this is the only way to get out of it.
	But that could always, it's set up by the devil, but it's allowed by God because he knows eventually that you will get out of it.
	Yeah.
	Yes, I understand the perfect will and permissive will.
	And I can see that I failed a lot of tests, you know, that I've so many times returned to false idolatry and self-worship.
	Can you see in retrospect the nature of those tests in your own life?
	What was the equivalent of being given a wallet?
	Was it that you have a capacity for strategy, like when you're chasing a demon in a U-bend around the kitchen?
	Have you got a capacity for combat?
	What is it that you think was your test that initially may have played out for ill that ultimately God can use?
	I thought I had just this.
	The more stupid stuff I did, the better I got with whatever I was doing.
	So I was almost like, why would I stop?
	Completely drunk.
	They throw me the thing in the room.
	I wake up in the morning in my clothes and I have to do a show that night.
	Not fighting, but like commentating.
	Never messed up.
	I always knew what I was doing.
	You know, so every time I was never put in a situation that I go, okay, this is payback from what I did last night or what I did last week.
	It was always, I always sailed through everything.
	I had car accidents that you cannot believe flying over a trash barrier, no seatbelts, my body flies through the car, no roof.
	Somehow we don't go out.
	Missing every tree on the way back, on the way down, down is water, upside down in the water.
	I don't know how deep the water is.
	I had to kick the windows out.
	My body is knocked out.
	I had to drag him out.
	Thankfully, it wasn't that deep.
	But all these, and I have a scratch.
	I have nothing.
	He had his whole skull open, needs to be stitched up everywhere.
	I had zero.
	I knocked out the toilet with my head because I was drunk in On Valium.
	But I had the shower in a hotel.
	So I get out and now the pill kicks in.
	I slip backwards.
	I hit my head on the rim.
	How is this possible that I completely destroyed the whole toilet?
	And then the whole floor started floating.
	I just kicked some curtains in it or whatever I found.
	I put it on a bed sheet and I went to sleep.
	And then the next day I woke up.
	I go, did I dream this?
	This is weird.
	And I'm going to the restroom and I'm sitting down because I always want to sit if I pee because otherwise I'm all over the place.
	I don't want to hit the light switch yet.
	And I go, man, that was a weird dream.
	But the toilet is here.
	And I hit the light switch and I see bloody handprints everywhere.
	And I go, what the heck is going on?
	And I had nothing.
	I had a scratch on the back of my head.
	And those things, it's impossible.
	You take a slash hammer, you can almost not do it.
	But somehow it found a weak spot in that rim that made that thing explode instead of breaking my skull.
	You see, so all these moments that I start thinking about that were so crazy that I survived, now I know he simply had a hand in that.
	But at that time, I thought, hey, the crazier I am, nothing is happening.
	It's only getting better.
	Let's just keep on going crazy.
	I needed a slap in the face, that's what I needed.
	A very hot slap in the face.
	And I think it started to come up.
	And then, suddenly, when Leo started talking about that, Lee fell from the tree, I started coming back.
	And once I realized, the first thing that I met was Matthew 7:3 to 5.
	Right?
	Why do you try to remove the splinter from your body's eye with the wooden beam in your own eye?
	Hypocrite.
	Why don't you remove first the wooden beam so you can see clearly and then you can move remove the splinter?
	And I go like, man, that's me.
	That's me.
	I'm telling everybody how to stop drinking while I'm drinking.
	I'm telling everybody how to stop doing drugs, you know, but I was doing it myself.
	And that really put it on me.
	I go, my God, I'm a douche.
	I'm a complete douche.
	And then I started disconnecting from things.
	Get rid of the freaking pors.
	Get rid of these watches.
	Get rid of this.
	Get rid of that.
	I gave it to my friends.
	I go, I don't want it anymore.
	I just want, you know, just get a normal car.
	Why would I need to drive around in all that stuff?
	It's not needed.
	And once I started doing, it started feeling better.
	First, I lost a lot of jobs because I think the evil one wasn't happy.
	And he went fully after me.
	I lost 150,000 followers.
	Everybody thought I was crazy.
	Everything went down, down, down, lost the job.
	So suddenly now it's scary because I didn't have a lot of work.
	This is in 2014.
	You know, people don't realize that.
	But then suddenly when I just stuck with it, I stuck with it.
	I started doing a roadary every day and angels every day and divine mercy every day.
	And I started going and an examination of conscience in the evening and going over the day.
	What did I do right?
	What did I do wrong?
	How can I make things better?
	What didn't I do, but should have done?
	Like all these things that started helping me, helping me, helping me.
	And suddenly, boof, everything started gaining.
	And now I got the good fans.
	Now I got the guys.
	It's weird.
	We live in a world that when you try to be a better person, people try to hate you for it, right?
	It's amazing.
	I mean, I just want to do what Jesus does.
	You know, try to love thy neighbor as thyself, right?
	Two of the greatest commandments he gave, love God with everything you got.
	But if you're date, just leave that.
	But number two, treat thy neighbor as thyself.
	And we all know it, but nobody does it.
	And I always tell our Father, we say the same thing.
	Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others who trespass against us.
	Who does that?
	I mean, not a lot of people forgive all the others.
	Nay, we want to be forgiven.
	It's all me, me, me, me.
	And once I realize that, and that pride is in the little things, it's not in boasting and that.
	That's an easy one to fix.
	But it's like holding the door open for somebody and it doesn't say thank you and you get angry, aggravated.
	That's pride.
	Why would you, you do it because it's the right thing to do.
	You don't do it for a thank you, you know?
	And once I start seeing those little tiny things, I go, man, I got a lot of cleanup to do.
	So I started cleaning and now everything became better.
	It was easier to stop the drugs, to stop the alcohol, you know, because now I saw what a real man is, which is a guy who doesn't do everything because now he is controlled.
	Whatever overcomes a man through that, he is enslaved, right?
	That's what the Bible says.
	I didn't want to be the slave anymore.
	I want to be in control.
	Okay, let's not drink that anymore.
	And I'm not the guy who can say two drinks, I'm going to stop.
	And I know I'm not that guy.
	So I simply don't drink.
	And I simply don't do drugs.
	But you see, then you realize the guy who's in complete control of everything in his life, that's a man.
	And I want to be a man.
	That's the only thing I want to be.
	I like the scripture, seek thee first the kingdom of God.
	And I feel that all of our interactions, if they can be directed primarily towards God rather than anything else, then opening a door and being spurned or a failed business venture or any challenges are secondary.
	I heard a Catholic priest, Thomas Merton, like relatively contemporary Catholic writer, say that sacrifice need not include suffering.
	That even though the primary image of sacrifice is obviously Christ on the cross and it is an image of suffering, that the point of sacrifice is to acknowledge that there is another realm, a primary realm, the realm of God, the realm of the Father.
	And the reason that involves suffering often is because we're attached to our body or we're attached to our money or attached to our food or attached to sex or identity or whatever it is.
	But sacrifice, but the sacrifice needn't include suffering.
	If you were not attached, if you had perfect non-attachment, then you, but, you know, and that's why I need Christ, because I know that Christ was tempted by the devil.
	I know that Christ suffered.
	I did the Stations of the Cross prayer today, in fact, in preparation for this interview with you.
	And like Christ, he, you know, falls down three times, has these human interactions, weeps with his mother.
	And I feel, I feel that it's very, I'm a very devout man, Bass.
	Like I worship a lot.
	I worship.
	Like when I was like worshiping drugs, I loved taking drugs.
	And when I was worshiping sex, I loved having sex.
	I was very, very, very committed to it.
	And sometimes, Bass, I can feel the demon or the phantom or the shadow of it.
	Like I feel it in the material world.
	For me, I'm one of them that's been chosen out of the world, you know?
	And what I mean by that is I can't be in the world.
	I can't do it.
	If I start dedicating myself to the world, start caring about my success at work or whether I've got enough money, it just, it starts with one thread.
	But before I know it, I'm fully in.
	I'm fully in, fully caring.
	So I just can't do it, man.
	And I think that you might be like that.
	I think you might be a, sounds to me like you're an extremist, but that when you devote that to something focused and targeted, like becoming a fighter, which is a pretty much no place to hide, serious questions asked environment, you're able to succeed.
	How do you regard that success through the lens of a saved man of God?
	How do you look back at even the things in your life that were apparently and evidently successful, victorious, glorious?
	Yeah, well, it's exactly like you said.
	We are wired a different way.
	We are wired like we want everything in one time.
	If one is good, 10 is better.
	You know, and that is really bad for all the vices out there, but it's Really good if you want something to achieve.
	And that's what I had in fighting, you know.
	And for me, it was like one goal, I'm going to get that.
	I'm going to train harder than everybody.
	If 10 rounds is good, 15 is better.
	So I use it for the positive and not realizing that once I stopped.
	And although I should have known a little bit, because after a fight, I would be three days gone.
	My wife wouldn't know where I am.
	I said, I'll be right back in like two, three days.
	I will see when I'm back.
	And I would come back because in Japan, I fought a lot.
	Like the first year, I fought eight fights.
	The second year, I fought nine fights.
	So we were constantly training, staying in shape.
	But you know, you go two days, three days, completely crazy.
	You're completely gone.
	Then you come back, take a day rest, and then you started training again.
	But that also went full power.
	So I should have seen it coming that once I take the training away, it's going to be a problem later on.
	But once you come to God and you realize and you live by those principles, you realize, I wish that I would have known this when I was thinking 20 years old.
	Somebody would have come to me, hammered some sense into me.
	But then again, I was 20.
	You know, would I have listened?
	But I think it gets a special person who I'd really admire.
	And he would simply say, hey, this is the deal.
	You know, you're not a man if you can't control it.
	You know, like really being like the tough guy.
	We always want to be the tough.
	Oh, you want to be a military guy?
	Well, you can't do anything of that because what if something happens?
	What if somebody comes in the house?
	You have to protect your mom and your dad.
	You see, like that, he should have talked to me.
	But I wasn't.
	Nobody ever talked to me like that because I came from a family, but he simply didn't believe.
	I wish constantly I go back, if I could go back to 2000, just 2000 when the kids were very tiny still, you know, and then there from that moment on, so I have at least the finding behind me because, man, that was a crazy path.
	Learned from all these crazy mistakes, and then I should have jumped back into the church.
	But it never happened.
	Somehow God knew that, well, in 2014 would be a better day for me.
	And I jumped back.
	And listen, it really worked.
	When I came back, my wife started laughing because she knows me.
	Normally, when I see something new, it's for six weeks.
	I go full in and I lose interest.
	But this one, it stayed.
	And then suddenly I asked her, I said, hey, listen, I want to marry again.
	Now, we already married twice.
	One for the green card.
	We came in.
	We had to be a family before applying so that we can all get the green card.
	The second was the big wedding that I promised her.
	But now I wanted to marry for the church.
	And she goes, okay, I don't even know if she really said something.
	But the next day I couldn't get a hold of her.
	And then finally she calls me back.
	I go, hey, where were you?
	She goes, I was at Mass.
	And I go, you were at Mass.
	He goes, why?
	He says, well, you want to get married for the church, right?
	I said, yeah.
	And she said, well, I did my confirmation.
	No, I was baptized, but I didn't do my confirmation.
	I just signed up.
	I went to Mass and signed up for RCIA classes.
	I mean, she saw me change within a year.
	And immediately when I said I wanted to marry her, the next day she went to Mass and she signed up for RCIA classes.
	You see, so she just saw what a person I was becoming and she wanted that.
	She wanted to jump on it.
	So the proof is in the pudding is just, you know, doing it.
	The whole, everything changes and everything becomes better.
	That's the thing, the problem right now.
	Everybody's looking for that dopamine the whole time, you know, and we need to go with the serotonin, the ketonizer, relics, just feeling good.
	But we want those peaks.
	But those peaks, every time you need more of it, whatever it is that gives you that peak in order to get that same feeling.
	How many times did you not tell your friends?
	And I said, that first time you did cocaine, you never get that same experience again, right?
	And but that's with every feis and that's why the world is so out of control, because we all want to be free, but you shouldn't be free, you know, because then there's no meaning.
	Nobody wants to work anymore.
	You know, what if you become a champion with no training?
	What would that mean?
	It doesn't mean anything.
	There needs to be hardship, you know?
	And once you realize that, and I realized at a very late age, then you go, oh my God, I've been so stupid my entire life.
	Why didn't I do this all the way back?
	How cool would it be to be a fighter, to never use profanity, to have not won any, no tattoos, and just destroy everybody and spreading the word of God?
	I mean, that would have been a really cool thing to do.
	Now, I know a lot of people are going to say, I don't think God is okay with fighting, but I think that's a dumb statement.
	I think he is okay with it, as long as both fighters sign up for it in order to do it, to have a better life.
	Like, I say violence is when one of the guys doesn't want to fight.
	I think that's violence.
	But I think when you both sign up to support your families, and you know, for people, it always looks like it's so violent because it's in a cage, right?
	And you put animals in a cage, you put prisoners in a cage, but it's actually there for your safety.
	And once you go through all the rules and what you can and cannot do, then you realize it's really not that dangerous.
	But there's way less death, like way less.
	I think we had maybe three deaths since mixed martial arts started.
	And why is that?
	Because we don't have an eight count.
	Taking the eight count away, it's a big thing.
	If I mount somebody and I start hitting him and he doesn't intelligently defend himself, before I connect through, the refuge is probably going to pull me off.
	Because eventually he knows it's going to happen.
	So it's much safer for the fighters, but people don't know that.
	They see the blood with the heartbeat of 150 pumping out and it looks all bad and it's in the cage, you know, but they don't see the sport of it.
	And they don't know what we feel towards each other.
	You don't hate that guy.
	What you see is 90% fake.
	Sometimes it's real, but it's very rare.
	But the rest, these guys, there's such a camaraderie among fighters.
	People have no idea how that is.
	And they're really good guys too.
	All the top guys, you won't see them fight on the street because they don't need to prove themselves.
	Plus, they don't want to go to jail.
	They want to make money in real fighting.
	So yeah, everything is done now, I know, for a reason.
	You know, the whole path.
	I'm actually writing my story and its insanity.
	There's some things that I go like, I don't know if I'm going to have to put that in there.
	You know, I don't want to inspire other kids to do crazy stuff.
	So I'm going to have to filter a lot out.
	But yeah, if I really go back into all the things that happened, boom, here we are.
	We're talking.
	That's so crazy.
	We can't stream the rest of this content on YouTube.
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	I don't think you should filter anything out.
	I think you should put it all in and then do a pass on it.
	Like do a pass after you've put it in and write it from the perspect, like you're writing it as the man that you are now.
	So I've often thought myself that I should have been, you know, have you ever heard how they sort of select llamas in like Tibetan Buddhism, like when like four-year-old kids are like shown artifacts that belong to an apparently previous incarnation of the same soul that they are.
	And if they identify those artifacts, they're taken from the village and they're sort of shown a new path and a new way.
	And I've, you know, that seems kind of sometimes ridiculous to a Westerner and to a non-Buddhist, but I believe even as a follower of Christ, that I was a kind of person that you could have marked out at four years old, five years old, six years old, or whatever, as this person, the world's never going to be enough of this kid.
	This is someone that needs to be in a monastery or a friary.
	This person needs to follow the spiritual path, otherwise they're going to worship God in everything you put in front of them, in food, in sex, and everything.
	And, you know, so I identify it with that.
	I wonder how your relationship with fear has changed.
	Like, in spite of how you characterize yourself as a younger man, you knew enough to have the Dutch word for relax, tattooed on your body.
	And that, like, seems to me to be almost combat and secular equivalent of seek thee first the kingdom of God.
	Like, most people can't, and obviously I would strongly include myself in this.
	Mike Tyson's, you know, everyone has a plan until they get a punch in the face, a brilliant remark.
	Like, me, I'm a person that was, once I'm frightened, I don't think very clearly at all.
	And look, my connection with God, it's very hard to maintain my connection to God if I'm overstimulated, if someone stimulates too much desire or too much fear or if circumstances rather than someone.
	So how did you know that fundamental to success in combat was going to be the maintenance of a state of relaxation?
	How did you know that?
	I just knew, you know, in panic, you make all the mistakes.
	Emotions cloud everything.
	Well, you look at the world right now.
	Everything's emotional, you know, and that's why people are reacting, you know, it's all anger.
	So I knew like Furoshin, that means an unstoppable mind in Japan.
	That logo always was big.
	I had big rims on my Mercedes one time and I had that logo on the rim.
	So it was really cool.
	But an unstoppable mind, a guy who can literally stop at the moment when that's when shit hit the fan and cancel everything out on the side.
	Now in Thai boxing, I never had that.
	I always had a lot of pressure.
	Now I was very fortunate because I just destroyed the people that I knocked them out.
	But if I would have had a really good opponent who knew how to stay out of my reach and just pick me apart from the side, I would have run out of gas and then he would have gotten me.
	Thankfully, that didn't happen.
	But then when I went to Japan, that was suddenly, that was the change.
	That was literally the unstoppable mind.
	That was the first time when I was fighting.
	Well, I got to also say the reason, because I didn't know the rules.
	I thought it was weird.
	There was no weigh-ins.
	And then suddenly this guy walks up to me on the day of the fight.
	He's a big guy, 6'3.
	And he shakes my hand.
	I say, you're the promoter.
	He says, no, I'm fighting you tonight.
	I go, what's your weight?
	And he was like 33, 35 pounds heavier than I was.
	I go, oh, that's right.
	And then the promoter walked up and I go, are you the promoter?
	Is he not too heavy?
	He goes, no, no, Mr. Ruth.
	We fight everybody.
	There's no weight for us.
	And I go, oh, great, great.
	So I tried to force a smile.
	And before he walked away, I said, how many minutes we have?
	How many rounds we have?
	He says, one round.
	I go, great.
	How many minutes?
	30.
	A 30-minute fight.
	No breaks.
	So that, together with him being like 33 pounds heavier, and now knowing that if I can't put the guy away, which was a Japanese guy and known for being tough, what if I can't put him away in the first one and a half minute?
	I got 28 and a half minutes to go.
	I need to calm.
	I need to calm.
	And then I put these big R's on my hand from those things, you know, like, and I told my corner, which was, I'll trade myself, was my manager in the corner.
	If he hits me, just shout, be calm, stay calm, stay calm, because I'm a hothead and I didn't want to lose my cool.
	And then the most crazy thing, experience in my life happened till this day.
	It's like one of the coolest things that I ever had in my life.
	The fight started and I'm in the bubble.
	And I hear my corner talk to each other.
	I know exactly what they're saying.
	I heard an Australian couple talking about a move to a different place, to a different city, Melbourne or whatever.
	I mean, I heard everything, but I was completely locked in.
	I saw everything.
	And then suddenly I say, oh, right, hi, kick, buff.
	And he goes down right away.
	And I go, my God, what's going on?
	He kicks me and I block with my shin.
	And while I'm blocking, I never did that.
	I go like, what the heck was that?
	I'm thinking, this is so crazy.
	He goes down.
	There's an eight count.
	And then these two voices in my head started talking.
	One is a very aggressive voice and the other one was a very calm guy.
	And the aggressive guy says, run to the corner, because as soon as you're in the corner, that's when they start counting.
	So the later you're in the corner, the more rest you're going to give your opponent.
	But the other guy somehow was telling me, and it was not with the voice, that it was way more intimidating to just walk towards the guy, because I know he had his eyes open, to give him a look, and then to walk back very slowly.
	So he would think, my God, this guy's not afraid at all.
	And then I'm hanging in the corner like this.
	But while I'm hanging in the corner, the other guy goes, you gotta go, you gotta ride, right, right, right.
	But the cool guy said, just relax.
	And then boom, the fight started again.
	And that's where I knocked him out with another palm strike, liver to the kick, a kick to the liver, hands went down, another palm strike, and then I kneed him in the head.
	And that was a very scary moment because he went, he was two days out.
	You know, so he got up like three minutes and he crashed again right away.
	He got up after another three minutes, crashed again.
	They had to bring him to the hospital.
	Didn't wake up.
	So I go, oh my God.
	So I'm already talking to my wife.
	I said, listen, if he's not going to come out, this is, I don't want to do this anymore.
	He was a nice guy.
	He came to introduce himself, you know.
	So it was freaking me out.
	But the fact, the way I was feeling and from that moment on, every fight was like that.
	It was like I was in complete control.
	It was really weird.
	It was just at that moment given to me.
	Maybe it's also the audience because they're super quiet in Japan, right?
	I mean, you can sit in the 30th row and I can speak like I'm speaking right now, and he can hear what I'm saying because nobody makes a sound.
	Or when you knock somebody out, the whole place goes crazy for 10 seconds, and then it's quiet again.
	Maybe that combination with the 30-minute round and with the 33-pounds heavier guy, and then the quietness really got me in that Fudo Shin logo, the unstoppable mind, not able, nobody could throw me off my game.
	That's why till this day, I say for my ADHD, fighting and sparring, elite sparring against good guys is the most peaceful time for me there is.
	Because you have no time for all the other craziness coming in.
	You got one focus.
	You know, that's why they say you got to like juggle or something.
	It's really good to throw all these crazy voices out.
	Maybe I should try that while doing prayers because, again, prayers also, right?
	To constantly keep focusing, constantly keep focusing.
	If you do a rosary now, I'm doing it for over 10 years, you know, every day, you know, you start wandering off.
	You got to pitch yourself back into it.
	So I do visual things.
	Every decade, every beat has a certain moment.
	You know, I see Mary praying and then I see the Archangel St. Gabriel coming.
	And I see all these things and I have it visual on my phone as well.
	So I can look at it and focus on it so my mind doesn't shoot in other directions.
	And when it happened with that, I go, oh, I can do with the Divine Mercy and I can do this with everything.
	So now my focus with pictures is always really good.
	And numbers, somehow I'm good.
	But for the rest, I'm all over the place.
	But yeah, the fighting, that helped me.
	And that I want to have in everything, but it's hard to attain, like in acting, right?
	They go like, oh, yeah, remember your lines.
	Whoa, camera here, camera here, camera here, $60,000 shot, go.
	What was my line?
	You know, because you're stressing out, but again, you get used to it.
	And slowly becomes more normal.
	In the beginning, I didn't like to do interviews.
	I was more scared of interviewing, of doing interviews than I was for fighting.
	But you do 10 interviews and it's like whatever.
	You start doing these things.
	But again, that's everything you get used to.
	But just remember for the people at home, also the bad things you get used to.
	And that's what you have to watch out for.
	Seems sometimes that we have within us this very protean, mobile, super state of potentiality, consciousness, Holy Spirit.
	And it can be directed and mobilized.
	If we direct it according to the principles of our Lord, then it will realize in his image.
	If we allow the evil one to intercede, then it will play out through his false idols.
	It will play out in his temples, in his temporality.
	But so I wonder if it sounds like that you were particularly predisposed to strikes and that your early career were perhaps in formats and forums that were predisposed to strike in martial arts.
	What happened as you had to incorporate ground game and whether that jiu-jitsu or wrestling, how did that alter the trajectory?
	How does that alter fighting for you?
	And did it seem sort of unreasonable and additionally challenging to have to incorporate those things?
	Yeah, so well losing.
	I started losing by the way of submission because they knew that was my killer seal.
	Take him down.
	You know, I want to stand with this guy.
	No, I knew nobody wanted to stand with me, but I had nobody to train within Holland.
	And then after my third loss, I became very vocal.
	Now, already after my second loss, and then I found one guy, Leon Van Dijk.
	That was the guy from the car accident who had this whole skull open.
	That was actually July 4th, 1996.
	I was just thinking about it last fourth, July 4th.
	And then we started training together and I never got it.
	I never got it in the beginning.
	And then one day, it's one of those things that one ingredient comes in.
	I'm rolling with another guy.
	It's a judo guy, and he reverses me.
	And he says to me, boss, you know that I can throw you to this side if you don't base out on this side.
	You need to always have one base, whether it's your hand or your foot on the other side, so they can't throw you to that side.
	And I'm sitting there and I go like, this is, how then, I never saw this.
	This is so crazy that I never saw this.
	And that was it.
	I somehow that, and I have no clue how this works.
	It all applied on everything.
	I think I tapped in my life in training maybe three times.
	And there was two times that I was completely drunk and that I almost had to throw up.
	And that's why I tapped.
	Otherwise, I wouldn't have done it because it was the next day after party.
	But I mean, I started submitting everybody.
	I suddenly started submitting everybody.
	And then I had the role with some fighters in Japan one day.
	And I never knew that I could be a world champion because they knew all the game, right?
	They knew the ground, they know the wrestling, they know the striking.
	I was only the striker.
	And then I fought Ken Shamrock.
	I lost by him by way of knee bar.
	And then I got really angry and I started training three times a day, only submissions.
	And then two times or three times a week, I would do Thai pets for stamina, but no more striking, no more nothing, only that.
	And then suddenly when I was training with the other guys, I started to tap these guys.
	And I go, so because I had no point of reference, I didn't know how good I was.
	And then suddenly when I worked with them, I go, my God.
	And that's the moment I came home and I told my wife, I go, I think I can be a world champion in this.
	I mean, I thought they were here and I was here, but it's the other way around.
	It's so crazy.
	And that was it.
	I never lost a fight again.
	I didn't lose in my last 23 fights.
	Even cooler was the last fight I lost by submission.
	I won my next eight fights by submission.
	I have actually more submission victories now than I have knockout victories.
	So because I go like, it's easy to go out now.
	So I really start enjoying it.
	But you have to understand it.
	And this is something with me.
	Here we go again.
	Once I go in, I go 100% in.
	I have to know why it's hurting and why this will put more pressure on if it would.
	Like I figure for a lot of people, and this is a white belt move, right?
	You learn this pretty much for if they lift your elbow up.
	Now here you can see my elbow can come up to this and then I can roll out.
	But look, if I push my hand down, the elbow cannot come up.
	Okay, so that is a better torque on the shoulder.
	now you're watching fights, guys in main events, and they have the hand here.
	I go, if you understand the submission and you know exactly how to do it and how it works, that's how I realized how to stay out of submissions.
	Because in the beginning, I was learning how to defend the armbar, how to defend the triangle choke.
	And I go, dude, I'm so stupid.
	Why don't I learn everything about the armbar and everything about the submission so I can already see it coming when they try to put it on?
	You know, and that was it.
	That changed my entire life.
	And then I go like, okay, just one setup on the mount, go for straight armbar.
	What if I create four different setups?
	Setups that they maybe don't know.
	Because if you find a setup that somebody never saw before, well, you're going to be successful with it.
	Well, it's going to be one time, especially if it's a good guy, but one time is enough to win a fight, right?
	So then the whole house was full with post-its, with combinations.
	My poor wife in the middle of the night would wake up, put her in a submission because I would dream a submission.
	Hurt your shoulder, hurt your shoulder, writing it down next day in training.
	Dude, I was insane.
	But like I said, I never lost a fight again.
	You see, so it's once you become obsessed with something, and that's what I had with the faith as well.
	I just suddenly I saw it.
	And then I go, okay, now let's go all the way.
	You know, and everybody can do it.
	And that's what I always tell people.
	You can do it as well.
	It's just doing it and keep on doing it.
	I use this example from Henry Winkler.
	I shot a movie with him right there.
	Here comes the boom.
	Super nice guy.
	And he was telling me that he was doing constantly auditions.
	Nothing worked.
	He was heading out to the East Coast to do the submissions and he wanted to go back home and west coast.
	And he said to me, I was in the car driving back to the airport.
	I wanted out.
	I never wanted to act anymore.
	And he got that one phone call.
	And they said, you got to go back.
	You got to go in for this.
	It's a few lines only.
	It was a very small one.
	And it was the fonts in happy days.
	And he went back, he got the part, and then he became the star of the show.
	You see, and I think there's books out there.
	And I remember this guy gave me the book, The Icon, I believe it's called this brushstroke, a white brushstroke that goes up.
	And he gave me the book, and there's a dot in the corner.
	And immediately I tell him, I say, this is where the people, normal people quit, right?
	He goes, how do you know?
	That's what the book is about.
	I go, because if you push a little further, then the universe is going to go, okay, you pushed enough.
	You're off to the races.
	Now let's see what you've made of.
	And I think that is with everything that you put your heart and mind in.
	You know, you struggle first.
	And the devil tried to stop me.
	I lost my jobs.
	I lost a lot of stuff, a lot of money.
	And then suddenly it was like, oh, shit, he's not changing.
	You know, I can't do anything.
	He's only increasing his faith.
	And that's when he left me alone.
	And then everything started coming up again.
	And now I'm great right now.
	Everything is just amazing.
	And the same with the ablation.
	You start thinking, listen, God has a plan.
	Everything happens for a reason.
	Do not be afraid, right?
	365 times it's in the Bible.
	Do not be afraid.
	And that's what I think now.
	You know, with the ablation, all this stuff might happen.
	Sure, I have my friends praying on me, but I go, it's all part of the plan.
	If I have to go, it's his plan.
	There cannot be a better plan for me.
	So I just go with it.
	And that's really helping me right now with all these little things that are happening in my life.
	If something stressful happens, I just, well, God has a plan.
	How do you manage the apparent contradiction between allowing God to use you and the requirement to be persistent, to push past where most people might concede or submit?
	How do you reconcile that, Bas?
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	I knew you were going to ask that.
	I think where the people who golf, they don't really love it.
	They do it for the wrong reasons.
	That's what I believe.
	I just fell in love with it.
	Like, I didn't want to do anything else.
	And I think he sees that.
	Like, working out for me, I have, I know, fighters.
	Quinton Jackson, he talks about he hates training.
	I go, dude, that's a hard job.
	I would love training.
	Every morning I wake up, okay, at four o'clock, I eat freaking six or eight sandwiches, go back to bed, so it's digested.
	And then I go up at seven and we start training, looking forward to training.
	What can I figure out?
	That's the thing another deal with submissions.
	You'll never master it.
	You'll never master it.
	There's always new stuff that comes up.
	People are like, well, how did I not know this?
	Like these little tiny tweaks, you know, and that's the cool part about it.
	So I think once you love it, you get it.
	But I think once you want to have it for the wrong reasons, for the fame, for the money, for the, like in my days, there was no money.
	I mean, my fight in the UFC, I made $55,000.
	They go like, that's it?
	I go, well, at that time, you had to fight three times and then win the tournament to get $50,000.
	So for me, at that time, I was a very high-paid fighter because I came from Japan where I already beat a bunch of UFC guys.
	And that's why they wanted me in the UFC.
	You see, but now it's, of course, it's much more money.
	But we weren't fighting for the money because the $5,500,000.
	Let's be honest, what do you keep from it?
	You pay your manager, you pay your notes.
	There's a lot of stuff that goes out of it constantly.
	You have to get your body fixed.
	That costs money.
	You got the good food, the good proteins, all this stuff.
	Everything costs money.
	So you don't do it for the money, you do for the love of the sport.
	And I think truly the champions that you see right now here, that separates them.
	You know, they do it because they love it.
	It's been encapsulated in them.
	And there's always some of these guys that just want it for the status.
	They want to say, I'm a cage fighter.
	I hate it when people say I'm a cage fighter.
	You're a mixed martial artist.
	That's what you're not a cage fighter.
	It's such a stupid word.
	It's like attention.
	Look at me.
	I'm a courage fighter.
	You know, it's a stupid thing to say.
	You see, and those guys, most of the time, that's what I believe, they're not going to make it because they're doing it to project into, oh, hey, look how cool I am.
	And I think that's in everything.
	You know, some kids get pushed into football.
	They don't really want it.
	And then at the critical moment, maybe they don't make it.
	But it's because they never really wanted it.
	It was just because their dad really forced it upon them.
	I think it has something to do with that.
	We're going to have a quick word from one of our partners now.
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	Do you feel like we are living in an age of bewilderment and confusion and overstimulation?
	That there's a sustained sense of panic in the world now, both culturally and politically.
	And if you do believe that bewilderment is real, certainly what I believe, and I feel like a really good example of it was the Olympic opening ceremony.
	Like, why bother to create a sort of a pageant of blasphemy other than to sort of suggest that nothing is sacred?
	And if nothing is sacred, all that really exists are your urges.
	All that exists are those wrong motives that you've described a lot, Bas, like just pursuing things because you think it will make you feel good.
	And I spent a lot of my life thinking that the purpose and point of my life was my own satisfaction or my own aggrandizement.
	And sometimes I still drift to that.
	If I don't surrender resolutely to him moment to moment, I kind of feel myself drifting back into, this is what I want.
	This is what I'm afraid of.
	This is what, you know, I drift back into false idolatry.
	Do you think that the culture is creating an environment of bewilderment, of delirium, so that false idols and false motives can succeed?
	And if you do agree with that, how are you managing your, like now you're more involved in business?
	For example, the O2 trainer that you invented, which increases lung capacity, which I could do because I have amphycema, by the way, and I could do a bit more stamina.
	I roll a little bit as a hobby, you know, I'm a purple belt in jiu-jitsu.
	I do jiu-jitsu as a hobby.
	Yeah, thanks.
	And I'd like to have a bit more sort of stamina.
	And so how do you focus on entrepreneurialism, success, and business in a bewildering environment?
	And most importantly, my initial question, do you think that the culture creates a sort of bewilderment in order to succeed and direct people towards false idolatry?
	100%.
	It's 100%.
	You can see it.
	You know, they want everybody to be weak.
	Imagine you're the guy that I just said I wanted to be who have everything under control.
	I use this line when I do talks and they say, what kind of man you want to be?
	I want to be a man who can overcome his weaknesses, vices, and imperfections.
	A man who's not a slave to his passions, emotions and desires, but a man who's simply in control of himself.
	Imagine we have 40 million men like that.
	You think there's going to be any control from outside forces?
	There's not.
	They're going to lose.
	They're going to lose everything.
	Right now they make everything effeminate.
	You know, everything is, everything is, everything is an attachment to pleasure and an unwillingness to suffer because it's all comfort.
	You know, it's too cold, it's too hot, they're overcooked, it's undercooked.
	They're just constantly complaining.
	And the more they complain, the more it gets.
	So 100%, because a population that cannot think, you know, and we see this a lot, they simply cannot think anymore because the emotions are out of freaking control, the emotional boundaries are completely shut.
	That's an easy crowd to control.
	But once these people, and you see it already, people start to change.
	I have people from Holland calling me who go back to the church.
	I have Muslim people calling me, man, I saw your comeback story and I was always in limbo already what I needed to do.
	And I became a full-on Catholic.
	So it starts happening.
	People start seeing it.
	Who wants a man who puts a video somewhere, you see him pressing hit and it goes, ah, he's screaming.
	And then he pushes those and he posts it.
	Ladies, he's available.
	I'm pretty sure there's nobody who wants that guy.
	So we want weak people who don't think anymore and just do whatever the forces here are saying to do.
	And if you listen to that, that KGB, I'm pretty sure you heard that, the guy when he said how to get the whole country weak, you know, and everything he says, oh, actually, there's a better one.
	If you were the devil, you know, how would you do it?
	And if you Google that, every point he hits, it's exactly how the whole thing is working right now.
	Every single one of them.
	You make a week by this, you make a week that can be anything they want.
	You cannot be anything you want.
	I want to be a jet fighter pilot.
	I can't.
	With my ADD, I crashed the freaking thing right away.
	You know, so there's things you don't got to know, your limits.
	If you're completely overweight, you want to be an athlete, you're going to have to work.
	Read the book, You Can't Hurt Me, you know, from Goggins.
	Read that.
	You know, that actually, that guy inspires me because he said I was fat.
	And no, you can't say anything.
	He says, no, you've got to say that you're fat because it is fat.
	And once you said, oh, I'm overweight, you know, they tried to pat everything down.
	It's okay.
	It's not okay.
	It's unhealthy for you.
	If you really love your family, why do you keep on eating?
	Because it's really hard.
	You're going to have a less life here.
	You're going to take a lot of years of your life.
	So your family cannot see you.
	So do you really love your family?
	Yeah, that's easy for you to say, boss, because you can eat whatever you want.
	Yeah, but I got different vices.
	There we go.
	We all have our vices.
	And we try to control them.
	And it's very hard to control them.
	But we do it.
	You do it.
	And every day you do it, you get stronger.
	That's the cool thing about creating virtue, right?
	Every time you say no, you're getting stronger.
	Every time you say yes to it, you're getting weaker.
	So vices make you weaker.
	And we know this.
	That's addiction.
	That's everything, mental, everything.
	And virtue makes you stronger.
	So yeah, 100% it's a design.
	But it really works now with me also in business, of course, you know, because now I understand I have to know everything about breathing, what you're talking about, Yoto Trainer, in order to bring it over to the people.
	Because there were things that I got like, you know, if you tell a person how your lungs don't do anything, you know, they're just too bags.
	There's no muscle in the lung.
	If you can't expand your chest, you can't breathe.
	People go, what?
	Yeah.
	Your lungs actually breathe by chest expansion.
	And that expansion is done by your diaphragm and your intercostal muscles.
	And that expansion creates a vacuum between the body and the lungs.
	And that vacuum, that opens up the lungs.
	So now it's a really crazy thing to say.
	So when your chest expands, it's not because you put air in it.
	When your chest expands, that's how you pull the air in.
	And once people start seeing that and realizing they have 11 pounds of breathing muscles that you can actually work out and make stronger, that's why all the Olympians are doing it.
	It's called the Spiritory Muscle Training.
	Then you go, oh, okay, see, but I have to learn everything.
	I want to learn how the lungs work, the alveolus, what they're doing.
	The three parts of the lungs, the bronchus and the secondary bronchia, the tertiary bronchia, all these things I want to know.
	But now I know that I have to understand it in order to go to a person that goes, dude, you know a lot about breathing.
	I go, yeah, because I dove into it.
	Before, I wouldn't do that.
	I would just roll with the punches.
	Now it's like studying, studying, studying.
	So you build up a discipline, right?
	And discipline.
	It's what they say with, what is the most important for a man to have?
	And I always say it's strength.
	And they go like, oh, because I was strong.
	No, no.
	Because it takes strength to have humility, right?
	To have patience, all these things.
	All everything.
	Every cardinal virtue, temperance, prudence, justice, fortitude, all the sub-virtures.
	It all takes a lot of strength.
	And now to fight the seven deadly sins, pride, wrath, greed, envy, lust, sloth, gluttony.
	I mean, they're all ramping right now at 100% in the world, all of them.
	You know?
	And it takes strength in order to do that.
	And with strength comes discipline.
	And then discipline.
	Yeah, discipline is actually the highest form of self-love that somebody can have.
	Because discipline is saying no to certain things.
	You want to be a champion?
	Well, for a few years, I can't do all these things in order to get something better later on.
	So discipline reveals a commitment you make to yourself.
	You make a commitment.
	And then the future you is, depending on the current you, that you better do what you said you were going to do.
	And I think once you see that and you just put some discipline in there, let's start with one thing.
	That's the problem with people.
	I have, I think, 20 vices.
	Take one.
	Don't take the biggest one yet.
	Now, most of the time, alcohol is the biggest one because I can count on one or two hands the amount of drugs that I did without drinking.
	So for me, alcohol was the first one to get out of there because then I don't make these stupid decisions anymore.
	Okay, now the drugs was much easier.
	Okay, that goes away.
	Now the anger.
	Oh, that goes away.
	You see, every time you just take one thing.
	And I say this with training too.
	You need to work on this, this, this, this.
	And they try to fix it in a week.
	You're not.
	Why don't you spend two weeks on one thing?
	You know, constantly, three times a day.
	Then once that is done, got it.
	Go up to the next thing.
	Baby steps, man.
	We all want to make it a race because that's how we're wired, right?
	It's all the short-term expansion span that we have.
	We're learned that we want everything right now.
	It's like the O2 trainer.
	Somebody does it for two days.
	It doesn't work.
	I go, you've been breathing long your entire life.
	You know?
	No, well, actually not from five and a half years of age.
	Because when you're baby, you're breathing perfectly diaphragmatic.
	Everything is perfect.
	Well, once you start going to school, you know, and that's around the age of five and a half, that's when, you know, you see other girls.
	And then you go, wait a minute.
	If I keep breathing through my belly, they might think I'm fat.
	All these little things, like the doctor put the stethoscope here.
	Take a deep breath.
	This is not where your lungs are.
	Your lungs are here.
	You know?
	But you think, oh, this is where my lungs are.
	All these things are sitting and belts and all that stuff.
	Takes the diaphragmatic breath away.
	You start breathing by your shoulders.
	Now, four to six of these shoulder breaths is the same as one diaphragmatic breath.
	Take the lowest number four times.
	So you can't pull enough air in.
	Four times doing this is the same as one time doing it correctly.
	And then you say, yeah, but I do the Botteco technique.
	And I do Wim Hof.
	And I do this.
	Doesn't matter.
	It's all good.
	This strengthens those breathing muscles.
	So whatever you're using, it strengthens those muscles.
	There's over 2,000 published medical journals about this thing.
	Why do you think?
	And why do you think breathing is important?
	Here we go.
	Aramaic and Hebrew.
	And breath is the same as spirit.
	Right?
	That word is, it's all connected.
	Once you control the breathing.
	Here we go.
	In my, which I didn't know at the time because I wasn't focusing on breathing.
	Right?
	So in fighting, I would be in the dressing room.
	And I had this weird thing that I would do.
	I would breathe in for like four seconds.
	And I go, with a very low tone, I let my belly vibrate.
	But the exhale was automatically longer because I'm humming it out.
	And then it would breathe in again.
	And then if I had a headache, I would do the same thing with a high tone in my skull.
	So my skull would vibrate.
	Listen, I was always super calm.
	Now, many years later, I realized I was stimulating the vagus nerve, the vagus nerve.
	They say, the vagus nerve is also called the wonder.
	It's the 10th cranial nerve that goes through all the body.
	And it's actually involved in all the crazy actions that you don't know you're doing.
	Like blinking, reading, sniffing, watching, looking, hearing your lungs, your heart, digestion, all the stuff that you don't focus on, but it automatically does.
	Now, that is also involved in the parasympathetic nervous system, which is a nervous system that calms you down.
	And there's four ways to stimulate that vagus nerve.
	There's splashing cold water in your face.
	There's putting, this is a weird one, Q-tips in your ears and you start massaging your eardrums on the back and the Indian side.
	And then there's singing, there's humming and one breathing technique, four seconds in, eight seconds out.
	Now, so unknowingly, all the way back in Japan in 93, I was connecting two.
	I was the humming and the breathing.
	I was doing that simultaneously.
	And that's why I was always so calm.
	So that's the cool part from all these things that I, now, for instance, chest expansion, right?
	That, that's how you breathe.
	I had a move, which I won with, which a lot of fighters are using right now, where I wrap somebody and I got him in a scarf hold.
	I grab his leg and then I push my knees together.
	I wrap him around my body and he can't expand his chest anymore.
	It stops him from breathing.
	It doesn't hurt him, but.
	if he just inhaled he can only hold that move for as long as he can hold his breath as soon as he exhales he can't inhale anymore and I started tapping people with that and then Fidel started using it now I know I was stopping his chest from expansion you know so he couldn't breathe you see all these things that I was doing unknown and good now I realize oh it had all had a reason it was the vagus nerve that I was stimulating with humming and with with the breathing part, and it freaking worked.
	So, it made such an impact on me.
	Once I start breathing and using all my 360 degrees breathing muscles around my body, dude, my stamina now is like crazy compared to what it was.
	You see me in World Title V breathing like this.
	Now I come off on a hard round, it's literally this.
	And every time I go like, this is so crazy.
	It's the difference is so insane.
	And people don't see it.
	They look at other fighters and they see a Tony Ferguson, you know, Michael Chandler, they're really great, always in stamina.
	Look at their breathing when they sit down.
	You won't see any chest movement.
	It's only belly breathing.
	That is just breathing correctly.
	Now imagine strengthening those breathing muscles because this is what happens, right?
	If you're running a very steep hill, this is how I explain it.
	That's the easiest way to get you.
	You're running a steep hill, and suddenly it feels like you get hit in the face, you start gassing.
	Metaborflex, that's the word for gassing.
	What happens at that moment is that your body starts redirecting oxygenated blood and it takes it away from your legs and you go, wait, I'm running.
	Yeah, but it sends it to the number one priority of the body, which is breathing.
	Breathing, water, food, right?
	Those are the three priorities.
	Three minutes without, you might be dead.
	So they choose that over everything else.
	Okay, good.
	So now let's think about how does stamina increase?
	Well, you work out really hard.
	Yeah.
	Well, what happens in the body?
	I want to know what happens in the body.
	Okay, when you work a muscle over and over again, it becomes more efficient at its job.
	And the word efficient already says it.
	It uses less oxygen.
	Therefore, your stamina increases.
	Wait, you just, what if I work out those 11 parts of breathing muscles, so they don't have to steal the blood anymore, which, by the way, I always say it's a medical term, blood stealing.
	They don't have to steal the blood from the legs or the arms, whatever you're using at the time.
	And you just can keep on going.
	Boom.
	And that's the inspiratory muscle training.
	And that's what the O2 trainer is.
	I came up with it when I was 14 because I was a track athlete.
	And if I had an asthma attack for a week in bed, which was everything in bed, not able to eat, not able to drink water very easy because I couldn't freaking breathe.
	But then when I resumed my track and field, I was always breaking my running times.
	And I go, what is going on?
	Maybe it's the medication.
	What's going on?
	I didn't know what it was.
	And then I went to the doctor's office, saw a drawing of a pair of lungs on the wall, and it showed the bronchial tubes.
	And it was an infected bronchial tube.
	And it was a healthy bronchial tube.
	And that was it.
	I go, dude, I've been working out my lungs because that's, I thought, my lungs were doing the work at the time, through an infected area, you know, so I unknowingly made them stronger over the last seven days, 24-7.
	Okay, so why don't I come up with something that controls the air intake?
	And I got these washes, bolts, washers, nuts, you know, like these round things with a hole in it.
	I start putting it in front of my mouth and tried to breathe through it.
	Don't do that, right?
	Because once you start and you open your mouth, it shoots in your lung.
	If it bypasses into a bronchial tube, you're dead.
	Can't time dig it out, you die.
	You know, so don't do that.
	But that was the idea.
	And then many years later, I started making it.
	And I used to have an inhaler with me everywhere I went, every fight, everywhere I go, an inhaler in my pocket.
	If I sneeze violently three times, a lot of asthma patients have this.
	You have to open up your lungs.
	Three and a half weeks with the prototype, gone.
	I never use an inhaler anymore.
	I go, whoa, said it to my buddy in Holland.
	I said, use this thing.
	I know he has asthma, but I didn't tell him anything.
	Eight days later, he calls me because my asthma is going.
	I go, oh, we're up to something.
	I didn't know inspiratory muscle training.
	I thought I invented it, but I didn't invent it.
	And then he starts selling it in Europe.
	And then it started picking up steam.
	And then once it didn't really pick up steam, it doesn't kill a fighter.
	And people think, you know, you don't know.
	But then I went to a breathing doctor and that changed everything.
	She comes in and she measured my chest expansion.
	She says, exhale, now inhale.
	And she goes, yeah, she started laughing.
	That's not possible.
	And I go, okay, so she does it again.
	And then she goes, wait.
	And she runs out, comes back with another doctor.
	And I go, oh, it's either really bad or really good, right?
	He goes, if I don't bring him, he's not going to believe it.
	I go, what's going on?
	Well, normally somebody brings the chest expansion by like an eighth of an inch.
	You just almost went two inches further than everybody else.
	How is that possible?
	And I pulled the thing.
	I said, I'm using this thing.
	And then she started using it.
	And then she put it in a book.
	And then things, people started, oh, it's real.
	And then I found all these published medical journals.
	So now it's not me saying it.
	Now it's over 2,000 published medical journals saying what it does.
	And it's going to help you as well.
	I'll send you one.
	Yeah, please.
	Yeah.
	How does it look?
	What do you do?
	Do you put that bit in your mouth?
	The bit looks like a gum shield.
	How does it work?
	It's a very simple concept.
	So here's a flap that opens up if I breathe out.
	So the exhale is completely without resistance.
	This is important, by the way, because a lot of people say you have to do resistance in and out.
	Not good.
	All the tests say that doesn't really work.
	Now, if you separate both exercises, then it becomes really good.
	Because if you breathe out with resistance, you can't really empty out everything.
	So you want to completely empty yourself and then you start inhaling.
	It comes with some exercises, but in the beginning, just sit still.
	And you literally do this for 30 repetitions only.
	Guys, this is four, four and a half minutes a day.
	And it will dramatically change everything it does.
	Now, of course, it comes with two exercises.
	One is to attack the front breathing muscles and there's one to attack the back breathing muscles.
	And that gives you that 360 circumferential breathing around the body.
	And it just changes right away everything.
	And this thing will also force you to breathe the correct way.
	Because if I'm trying to raise my shoulders, pulling in on a high intensity tiny hole that I have here, you're not going to be able to pull it in because you need more power.
	Therefore, you're going to need your real breathing muscles, which are your diaphragm and your gut and your intercostals.
	So it forces you to breathe correctly by prohibiting your potential to breathe badly.
	So you, and what are the exercises that locate it at the front or rear?
	Okay, so that's a weird thing to do.
	I'm going to try it.
	I'm going to put my thing to the side because you see, you already feel it.
	When Joe did it, he goes, I feel much as I've never felt before.
	And you're going to feel that too.
	I had literally bodybuilders buying it now for their abs.
	If you see my core, it all sticks out here at the front because the diaphragm is located at the bottom, it's attached to the bottom of your rib cage.
	Your diaphragm for the people at home because then you have an idea how it works.
	This is kind of a diaphragm.
	I know it's a freaking vegetable steamer, but they will bring it home, right?
	The diaphragm is like this, a thin dome-shaped muscle tendon.
	It's only four millimeters thick, but it's super strong.
	And what it does, it drops down every time.
	Now, imagine this part, the outside part, being attached to the bottom of my rib cage.
	When it drops down, from that angle, doesn't do a lot.
	From this angle, this is what it does in the body.
	It expands your chest.
	That together with your intercostals, that does the chest expansion.
	By the way, when you're the age of 28, you already start declining.
	When I was 58, I would have lost almost a liter for my six liters that I have.
	Why?
	Because your chest starts calcifying and it starts becoming less elastic unless you do breathing exercises with it.
	And then you do it, you'll bring it back.
	So I sit to the side.
	What I'm doing here is I exhale, then I bend on diaphragm level because that will push all the air out.
	I lean over, I start inhaling, and then I come up slowly and I try to time it as such a way that once I sit up straight, this is the end of my inhale.
	And I really try to feel my body expand.
	So and then you continue.
	Now, the other exercise, and I can see if I can do it like that, it's really weird.
	It's much easier.
	Again, I squeeze my shoulder blades also together because that pushes a lot of air out.
	And then I lean on a table or on your knees in this case, and you just relax every muscle in the body.
	The only thing you're going to focus on is your back muscles at the lower part of your rib cage to expand.
	And you'll be amazed.
	And for the people who do this for the first time, do not do 30 reps because the next day, these muscles you never used, you're really going to feel it.
	Like your muscle aches are going to be insane.
	So I'm doing this.
	And I just focus on that back part to expand.
	And it's really weird how the mind works.
	That again is that vagus nerve that sends those signals to your back as well.
	And you will immediately feel no pressure here, but only on the back.
	But like I said before, watch out with this one.
	When I did it the first time, I was like, it felt like I worked out my back muscles really hard.
	You're going to be in pain for a few days.
	Yeah, I want to do it.
	I want to do it.
	I think it will help.
	Like, I do like hot yoga and I do jiu-jitsu.
	And I've been involved in, like, and I did, I don't do Wim Hoff stuff.
	And this other brilliant breathing exercise that I do, man, which is like, it's not, it's not a health.
	It's more like a consciousness one.
	And like, it really helps Holy Spirit.
	This is like this woman called Biet Simpkin.
	And what she does is you sit on your knees with your heels at your butt, you know, like a kneeling position.
	And you do three inhales, right?
	And it's interesting.
	You'll probably understand the respiratory dynamics of this.
	The inhale is quite strong and the exhale is very soft.
	You do three, just three reps like that.
	And on the fourth rep, you go from being on your, with your butt on your heels to sort of standing on your knees, you know?
	So you go from being like, oh, fuck, just give myself.
	Baz, I've given myself serious cramp.
	Very serious cramp.
	Oh, magnesium.
	I need magnesium and I need it bad.
	I need electrolytes.
	Anyway, I go from being on like on my butt to a standing, like, you know, camel position in yoga.
	And you just take a strong inhale and you're pushing your chin back and you're pushing your chest out.
	And I swear, I think maybe it shuts down the systems of the ego and the self, but there is still a remnant consciousness.
	And that remnant consciousness, I consider to be the unindividuated consciousness, like it's pure flow.
	You know, I'm just beginning it now, you know, but I realize, I feel like if you, like, that you aren't, like the where the evil one gets you is when you're in self.
	And you're right.
	Like, you know, there's sort of, yeah, the blood of Christ, the healing blood of him.
	But the Holy Spirit is what he gave us as a result of bleeding that blood, the Holy Spirit.
	And the Spirit must be closer to breath.
	And as you say, breath, yeah, yeah, free was it, three days without water, three weeks without food, three minutes without breath.
	It's everything.
	I would love one of those devices, please, because I think I'll do that, especially if it's like four minutes.
	That's an easy thing to put into your routine in the morning.
	Well, it sounds easy for everybody who's talking right now, but here we go again.
	Society gets so weak that they go because you're going to feel this.
	You're going to start sweating.
	Like, that's why I use the paper towel now, because I already start feeling it, because your core gets really thick and it's all around those breathing muscles, about the diaphragm.
	In the beginning, we talk about belly breathing, but that's kind of, we just say that, to get your mind away from the chest breathing.
	And once the belly breathing is there, then you will start focusing on the bottom part of your rib cage because that's where the real diaphragm is and that pushes it out.
	I do now want laying down, like in a little bit of an incline.
	And those two muscles, I have made a video about it.
	It's going to be posted.
	You watch, you can see the breathing muscles because I've been doing this for shit since 2018 now, every day.
	So these muscles just get really, really strong.
	But like you said, it's very important, even when you do those exercises with breathing, to keep breathing using the lower part.
	Do not raise your shoulder.
	Like if I tell a person, take a deep breath now and they go, that's completely wrong.
	If you do that, this thing is going to change your life.
	You're going to be insane.
	Yeah, Bass.
	Thanks, man.
	That was an amazing conversation.
	I really appreciate your time.
	I see what I learned is that there's when you have raw potential running through you, if that potential is not tutored and directed, it will destroy you.
	I think this is a strong characteristic of addiction, but it's also amazing that in faith and through Christ, it can be directed.
	I don't know that there's another way of doing it.
	I don't think you can do it the new age way.
	I don't think you can do it through Buddhism.
	But like, you know, like how you said, like with the virtues, like if you're willing to get into the architecture and, you know, deep theology, there are ways of, you know, it's all covered.
	It's all covered.
	The ways of bringing forth, whether it's via saints or whether it's via the virtues or whatever other somewhat esoteric values you bring to the forefront, there are ways of directing that potential through Christ and through his church.
	Yeah, it's very easy.
	You have to understand God wants you the very best person that you can be.
	Mind and body, and that's automatically your soul, right?
	So whatever he says will get you in the best shape possible.
	So make sure that you just do the work.
	You got to stop all these, follow the virtues, the cardinal virtues, the most crazy ones.
	Of course, faith, hope, charity, the theological ones are very important, but the cardinal virtues, the prudence, the justice, the temperance, the fortitude, especially fortitude.
	We need that at the moment.
	Perseverance in the face of the archers, right?
	Can we keep on going, keep on going?
	And once you be able to push that away and you just have your goal, that's it.
	I mean, there's no limit to what we can do when it's your gift that you receive from God.
	Because you can be, like I said, anybody you want.
	You have to find something that you truly want to be, want to do in your life.
	If you say, okay, I want to do this for the rest of my life, then focus on that and give it everything you got.
	But don't have ulterior motives.
	Don't do it for O de Fame.
	That's like everybody wants to be a YouTube star now because it's easy money and you just have to film and do crazy.
	Don't do that.
	And if you do that, and if you are that person, then do it correctly.
	Go in 100%.
	And it takes a long time.
	How long did it take for Joe to take off for this podcast, right?
	It takes time.
	But if you're persistent and you're good at what you're doing and you're going to find out if you're good, you know, then it's, but if it's your wish and you love it, most of the time you will be good because people can tell that you love it.
	Like, I love this.
	Change my life.
	Just breathing.
	I go, there's nothing that you can ask.
	Well, there's, of course, things that I don't know yet, but I just know a lot about it.
	And I think, just do that.
	And then you're going to be just fine.
	Everybody could do it.
	Oh, God bless you, Bas.
	Thank you for your time.
	Praise the Lord.
	And I'm very grateful to you making time in your day for us.
	Thank you.
	I appreciate you, my friend.
	Thank you so much.
	Well, thank you very much for joining me for that conversation with Bass Rutten.
	There's a link in the description if you want to acquire Bass's device.
	I'm going to go now and watch a bunch of his fights.
	I like to sound at that half-hour one in Japan.
	That sounds amazing.
	Excuse me.
	I'm out of my mind.
	The reason that Nurse Nick is here really is because I've got an IV in my nothing but pure morphine running through that.
	It helps me relax.
	I must say I want to thank our sponsors today, the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma, for all of the fentanyl coursing through my veins.
	That's fentalicious.
	Do enjoy yourself some of that.
	Thanks for joining us.
	We'll be back tomorrow for our watch along where we're watching Keith Allen's film on Princess Diana.
	It's an amazing documentary.
	He's banned almost everywhere.
	You will love it.
	See you tomorrow.
	Not for more of the same, but for more of the different.

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