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March 6, 2025 - Stay Free - Russel Brand

01:07:32

Tariff War Begins: Trudeau Threatens Retaliation Against Trump – SF549

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	As you can see, I'm still celebrating Ash Wednesday like the lunatic that I am.
	In a minute, we're going to be talking to the founder of the Halo app about spiritual principles, the compromises that come when you make money out of tech.
	But before that, let's talk about what's going on in Canada, as well as talking about Europe re-arming itself.
	Could we be on the brink of Armageddon?
	And how do you possibly respond to a situation like that?
	Whether you're watching us on X or YouTube, ultimately, please join us over on Rumble and consider getting Rumble Premium so that you can support me and Rumble's fantastic lineup directly, as well as getting a friction-free experience over there.
	Is it possible that Justin Trudeau could get anything?
	Anymore our step with the sentiments of the American people.
	He's threatening to not come to America.
	He's threatening to withdraw his finest Canadians.
	Now that includes some pretty interesting Canadians.
	Jim Carrey, are we going to lose that guy?
	And Chris Pavlovsky, CEO of Rumble, has responded.
	He himself is a Canadian person.
	Is Canada about to become the 51st state?
	Joining maybe Greenland.
	Maybe it'll have to be the 52nd.
	or is Canada going to form a bulwark of opposition against United States hegemony?
	Let's get into it.
	We're going to choose to not go on vacation in Florida or Old Orchard Beach or wherever.
	About getting Florida, me, Tate, everyone's already here.
	The last thing we need is a Canadian.
	We're going to choose to try to buy Canadian products and forego bourbon and other classic American products.
	And yeah, we're probably going to keep booing the American anthem.
	Yeah, we're gonna boo you!
	I will boo you right in your anthem!
	Get ready!
	We're talking about potential nuclear war in Ukraine.
	Trudeau evoked the Emergency Act during the height of the pandemic.
	Chrystia Freeland, he's likely replacement, froze people's bank accounts while they saluted Nazi.
	I can't get over the saluting of Nazi.
	But now, now things are getting serious.
	Putin, we will boo you.
	Straighten your anthem.
	Trump, get ready.
	Your anthem's not beneath a good booing.
	and Keir Starmer.
	We will boo you so hard in your anthem, you'll need to go immediately for an AIDS test.
	Um, I put a pippin down my waddle-a-hole, and it turns out that everything's tick tickety-boom.
	The American anthem.
	Ron DeSantis of Florida seems to be responding directly to Trudeau's claim Does America need Canada?
	Is the division between Canada and America arbitrary?
	Will Trump's bellicose style and vulgarity lead to World Union in a previously inconceivable way?
	Myself, I believe in national sovereignty and maximum, maximum individual freedom.
	Let's see where this is going.
	Flock to our state and investment to Florida surge.
	We continue to set tourism records.
	2024 saw more than 142 million visitors come to the state of Florida.
	This includes 3.3 million visitors from Canada.
	That's not much of a boycott in my book.
	Maybe they wanted to get a glimpse of what a Stanley Cup winning hockey team actually looks like.
	Yeah, you boo our anthem, and we'll mock your hockey.
	We'll get you riding the hockey.
	It's really interesting, isn't it, how the symbols of a nation...
	Become open to ridicule in this ongoing discourse that does have political connotations.
	This whole controversy is, of course, spawned by Trump's imposition of tariffs on Canada and Mexico.
	That could purportedly happen any day now.
	Let's have a look at Ontario Premier Doug Ford cancelling Starlink.
	That guy's going for it.
	He's the one that said, like, I will fight to the death, not actual death.
	No one will actually die.
	It's kind of empty rhetoric that people are trying to move beyond.
	Also, starting today, all U.S.-based companies will be banned from taking part in government procurement.
	Every year, the province and its agencies spend about $30 billion on procurement.
	You can forget about that procurement and we will boo you so hard in the anthem that you won't sit down for a week.
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	Alongside our more than $200 billion plan to build infrastructure, US-based businesses will now lose out on tens of billions of dollars in revenues.
	You can forget about maple syrup and Mountie hats, too.
	Well, I've got me own Mountie hat.
	I don't need you, as a matter of fact.
	Here's Chris Pawlowski, CEO of Rumble, a Canadian company, responding.
	Canada is going to be in a world of hurt.
	I would not hold Canadian dollars, and I wouldn't buy Canadian real estate.
	It's of my opinion that we're about to witness one of the largest declines in Canadian history, driven by incompetent leadership in Canada.
	Please explain to Governor Trudeau of Canada that when he puts on a retaliatory tariff on the US, our reciprocal tariff will immediately increase by a...
	So, in a sense, you can't rely on those somewhat impotent, former, woke-style WEF leaders to stand up against the belligerence and potency of a leader like Trump, who, in spite of what the view may think, has a significant mandate.
	Here's Justin Trudeau directly messaging Trump in a manner that can only be described as, I mean, in a way, if your fuel bills are high in Canada, you can just watch Trump doing this and warm yourself with pure cringe.
	Now I want to speak directly to one specific American.
	Donald.
	I don't mean duck, because I actually don't even believe Donald Duck's real.
	Who talks like that?
	All that stuff.
	I'm talking to you, Trump, as an equal.
	I'm speaking to you, Fidel Castro, as a father.
	I'm joking!
	In the over eight years you and I have worked together, we've done big things.
	What big things have they done?
	Is there anything as big, as memorable or significant as the evoking of the Emergency Act in the pandemic to control truckers, Canadian citizens protesting against their government, all the while telling them that they're the Nazis?
	You are the Nazis.
	That is why we have to control you.
	You are the Nazis.
	That's why we have to freeze your bank accounts.
	You are the Nazis.
	That's why we are saluting an actual Nazi in our parliament.
	Wait a minute.
	This doesn't make sense.
	We signed a historic deal that has created record jobs and growth in both of our countries.
	We've done big things together on the world stage.
	They're not the Bee Gees!
	Stop making everything sound gay!
	As Canada and the US have done together for decades, for generations.
	And now, we should be working...
	Together, to ensure even greater prosperity for North Americans in a very uncertain and challenging world.
	Now, it's not in my habit to agree with the Wall Street Journal.
	But, Donald, they point out that even though you're a very smart guy, this is a very dumb thing to do.
	We, two friends, fighting.
	Is exactly what our opponents around the world want to see.
	You can't actually adopt that perspective or that position against Donald Trump when you're Justin Trudeau, when you've behaved the way that he has behaved in government.
	And when we're beginning to experience the...
	Success of some of the audacity of Trump's public rhetoric.
	Zelensky now says he's ready for peace.
	Even with the extraordinary AI images of Gaza as a holiday destination, it appears that there's a likelihood that solutions that were previously inaccessible...
	Might become an option, even for someone who finds it somewhat distasteful to speak about a region so connected to and fraught with controversy, pain and suffering spoken of in such a glib way.
	You have to acknowledge that Trump is the political figure that Americans have voted for and appears in some extraordinary ways to be the political leader that the world needs.
	And whether you agree with that...
	Or not.
	You surely understand that Justin Trudeau isn't the political figure that the world needs.
	But that's just what I think.
	Let me know what you think in the comments and the chat, wherever you are watching us.
	You might be watching us on X. You might be watching us on YouTube.
	Please join us on Rumble.
	Sign up to Rumble Premium.
	It impacts me positively when you do that.
	You get an ad-free experience when you do.
	But...
	Until then, here's a message from one of our partners.
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	Yes!
	War between Europe and Russia without America.
	Oh dear.
	Okay, so here's Scott Jennings revealing that Europe spent more money on Russian oil and gas than they sent to Ukraine collectively.
	So it looks like, even from that perspective, there's some complexity when it comes to the position of Europe on this conflict.
	Since Trump's been in office, it's looked like...
	Political and diplomatic solutions might emerge for the first time since Boris Johnson, at the behest of Biden, went to Kiev to stop.
	Zelensky signing a peace deal with Putin.
	So, are we moving towards peace in spite of the vulgar or bellicose nature of the rhetoric?
	And indeed, are Europe even in a position to go to war against Russia economically?
	Does it even make sense?
	What is Europe's true position when it comes to that conflict?
	Can we rely on people like Ursula von der Leyen or should we rely on Jeffrey Sachs?
	An academic and expert who's helped us to understand the true origins of this conflict and therefore be forewarned and forearmed, ironically, against escalating conflict because who really benefits from this stuff?
	First of all, though, let's have a look at Scott Jennings revealing that Europe spent more money on Russian oil and gas last year than they sent to Ukraine.
	So whose side are they on, really?
	Yeah, you mentioned the Europeans.
	It's interesting to me.
	They spent more money on Russian oil and gas last year than they sent to Ukraine.
	Collectively, that's number one.
	Number two, it's interesting to me that Zelensky could not see on Friday the benefit of signing the minerals deal.
	That in and of itself is a security guarantee.
	When our interests become your interests, that is a security guarantee.
	You're never going to get Trump to sign an agreement saying, well, we'll eventually put boots on the ground.
	A mineral deal, Scott, is not a security guarantee.
	It is, because we would have guaranteed our own interests.
	On top of that, most of the minerals are in territory that is being held by Russia.
	So the mineral deal is something that is...
	Are you saying that we would have entered into an economic system and not defended it?
	It's near and dear to Donald Trump's heart, but it is not a security guarantee.
	I disagree.
	The role of the president is to put...
	YouTube and social media YouTube and social media phidias invited Jeffrey Sachs to the EU, where he's a member of the European Parliament, using his social media following to get himself elected into a position of political power, becoming friends with Elon Musk along the way, and exposing the machinations and machinery behind giant bureaucracies and exposing the machinations and machinery behind giant bureaucracies like the EU, who you can't trust and rely on.
	Now, it was the EU who, from a position of pomposity, claimed that they would never negotiate with Russia.
	It was NATO that said, oh, that Putin, he's got what's coming to him.
	In a sense, I'm saying it's these giant and unelected bureaucracies, although I recognise that on some level the EU has democratically elected members, although many of them are extremely unpopular, and as a conglomerate they don't seem to be working out that well, are far more out of touch than a populist nationalist leader like Donald Trump.
	And it's the failure of globalism, and along with it, the left that has led to the rise of populism.
	That's a bigger conversation.
	There's focus on Jeffrey Sachs explaining to Phidias that Europe didn't even want to negotiate with Russia until Trump did it.
	So while they claim to be the adults in the room, they're actually copycats.
	Trump doesn't even recognize Europe.
	Why should they be at the negotiating table?
	Partly because Europe should have been negotiating.
	But it said, no, we will never negotiate until this moment.
	But today I heard, oh, we weren't invited.
	Well, you've been there for three years.
	Now the Europeans and Zelensky are saying, oh my God, oh my God.
	So we shouldn't follow what the U.S. was doing as Europeans?
	This is basically what you're saying?
	Of course, Europe should have a foreign policy.
	But they thought naively they could follow Biden.
	And I did tell them.
	Repeatedly.
	You don't let the United States blow up the pipeline that provides the energy for Europe and then sit there like a dumb idiot.
	We don't know who did it.
	Well, I can show you the President of the United States saying if Russia invades, Nord Stream will be finished.
	There will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.
	Hmm, is that a clue?
	This is not foreign policy.
	This is doing what the United States wants, but now you obviously can't just follow Trump.
	It's crazy to me a lot, like, out of 720 members of the European Parliament, which one of them, majority, they vote to continue this war, to keep sending weapons.
	Now, strangely, if you ask, of all the countries, who ignores the UN the most?
	I'm sure every member of Parliament would say, oh, Russia.
	But you know what?
	Let me mention a secret to the members of parliament.
	The United States is the country that ignores the UN completely.
	It's not even close.
	The United States have been engaged in a hundred regime change operations since the end of World War II. A hundred.
	Russia just saw the U.S. pushing further, putting its missile systems, putting NATO enlargement, leaving the Intermediate Nuclear Force Agreement, leaving the ABM agreement.
	Europe wouldn't acknowledge any of those provocations because the only word you could use in Europe is unprovoked.
	Well, to my mind, frankly, you would say, okay, we understand you had reasons for all of this and many of them legitimate.
	We have our fears.
	Now, how do we work this out?
	Because whatever happens, we're sharing this continent together.
	That conversation between Phidias and Jeffrey Sachs shows you everything you need to know about an optimistic new politics that might yet emerge.
	Sure, Trump is of a particular hue, but he's forming alliances that are exciting and new.
	And with figures like Phidias, who are political and media operators facilitating experts like Sachs, informing us of the complex truths of the Ukraine-Russia conflict and Europe's dishonest and hypocritical position, It's possible that we could continue to develop more complex perspectives together.
	That what may yet grow out of MAGA might be something that even people that loathe Trump see as being relevant to them and their lives and born of values and virtues that are meaningful even for the kind of diverse minorities that they claim that Trump is a dreadful threat to.
	Do you see that something brilliant could emerge right now?
	It's possible that we could oppose the type of hypocrisy and corruption That the Occupy movement was opposed to.
	That anyone that cares about community sovereignty, national sovereignty, and individual sovereignty should be concerned with.
	Thank God for a figure like Phidias.
	Thank God for Jeffrey Sachs.
	And Lord alone, protect us from the likes of Ursula von der Leyen, who's suggesting that we should create a European army.
	They are still advocating for globalism, globalism, more globalism, all the time telling you that the megalomaniacal tyrant that you should...
	It doesn't make sense.
	You can't loathe Elon Musk because he's got too much power and then say that the EU should be able to arm itself, particularly when Ursula von der Leyen, during the pandemic period, behaved like a plutocrat, was dishonest, and advanced the idea that we should get vaccinated without knowing what exactly was going into our arms, if you took it.
	I never took it.
	She can't claim to be a friend of democracy.
	Here she is claiming that in order to be a friend of democracy, in order to bring about peace, we have to have war.
	That Europe will be stepping up its defence expenditure and rearming itself.
	We had a very good and frank discussion.
	Basically, we've discussed everything that is around peace and strength.
	And, of course, security guarantees are of utmost importance for Ukraine, but we need comprehensive security guarantees.
	This includes that we have to put Ukraine in a position of strength, that it has the means to fortify and protect itself from the economic survival to the military resilience.
	It's basically turning Ukraine into a steel porcupine.
	That is indigestible for potential invaders.
	And therefore, the focus is not only on the military supply, but also, for example, securing their energy system and making sure that over time this is a strong and resilient country.
	The second element I brought to the table is that we urgently have to rearm Europe.
	And for that, I will present a comprehensive plan how to rearm Europe on the 6th of March.
	When we have our European Council to deliver this.
	And what level of spending should individual countries make to defence?
	One thing is very strong.
	We have to have a surge in defence.
	We really have to step up massively the defence expenditure.
	And for that we need a clear big plan.
	from the European Union for the member states and of course for common European domains like for example advanced air shields we need a common European approach but also the member states need more fiscal space.
	To do a search in defence.
	Have you won the argument with European colleagues about stepping up to the plate?
	Absolutely.
	We all have understood that after a long time of underinvestment, it is now of utmost importance to step up the defence investment for a prolonged period of time.
	It's for the security of the European Union and we need in the strategic environment in which we live to prepare for the worst and therefore stepping up the defensive.
	What message would you like to take to America?
	What message would you like to give to America after today's meeting?
	We are ready together with you to defend democracy, to defend the principle that there is a rule of law that you cannot.
	Invade your neighbour and bully your neighbour or you cannot change borders with force.
	And it's in our common interest to prevent future wars that we make very clear that these rules count and that democracy, that the democracies are standing up for that.
	The possibility is of course that we have the wider Europe approach.
	So today we had the Norwegians.
	The Turks.
	Of course we were hosted here by the UK. Canada was also there.
	So the wider concept of Europe stepping up.
	And what does that mean in terms of numbers of soldiers on the ground?
	How many European soldiers on the ground?
	We stand up for the common interests.
	So, if you believe in peace, it's time, I would say, to start supporting populist candidates in your country wherever you can.
	Disrupt their machinery.
	Remember, it's the EU that went into Romania to reverse their elections.
	It's the EU that said they'd do the same thing in Germany if it were necessary.
	You cannot trust the globalists.
	You must not trust the globalists.
	This is a new form of imperialism that you have to oppose.
	Even if you don't agree with every aspect of nationalism, you must recognize that it's better than globalism.
	But that's just what I think.
	Why don't you let me know what you think in the comments and the chat.
	Remember, join us on Rumble Premium.
	We've got a fantastic lineup over here on Rumble.
	And by supporting us directly, you get ad-free content.
	In a minute, I'm going to be talking to the founder of Hello Alex Jones, no not that one, about Christianity, business, faith and tech, as well as telling my own lovely story from Mar-a-Lago.
	We'll be doing that in a moment.
	Let me know in the comments in the chat what you think about the stories of today, whether you're watching in Locals or Rumble Premium or wherever you're watching.
	But before that, here's a quick message from one of our partners.
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	Welcome to Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	Thanks for coming on.
	Thanks for having me.
	You must be one of those people that has to continually align your...
	Like I do, your faith with your business and continually live in the question of how do I do this ethically?
	How do I ensure that this is bringing about his kingdom?
	And how do I... Because if you are able to do this, please tell me how to do it, because it's the thing I struggle with most.
	Well, not the thing, but one of the things I struggle with most.
	How do you ensure that your work with Hallow, which must be personally enriching and empowering, remains within your...
	I mean, I can tell within five seconds, although I've seen you on other people's podcasts and stuff, that how serious you are about your faith and about how serious you are about your devotion to Christ.
	How do you ensure that...
	We don't get pulled into serving the very kingdom we're meant to be fighting against.
	Yeah, I mean, I think it's the battle of a lifetime.
	You know, it's trying to die to yourself and die to all your vanities and all the things of the world that you, at least I, before Christ, kept wanting to chase after.
	So, I mean, I think it's, you know, I'm very much just at the beginning, but...
	Of this journey and this battle, which I think is a lifetime one.
	I think, you know, working on something relating to your faith, you know, it has a lot of pros and cons.
	And God has given me a great gift in being able to do this.
	I think, you know, on the cons, it can certainly feel like...
	You know, it used to be easier to separate, which maybe isn't even a good thing, but it used to be easier to separate kind of your work from, like, what you're doing morally or your spiritual life, and now for me, obviously, there's no separation.
	It's also quite hard for me to, like...
	I use the app every day.
	I love it.
	It's helped me a ton.
	We built it initially just for me and my journey to try to grow deeper in a relationship with the Lord.
	But it's quite hard for me to listen to an audio session or something or a prayer with Father Mike or Jeff Kaven's Daily Reflection or something and not hear a little audio blip and be like, oh man, team, we need to make this higher quality.
	And so your work kind of conflating with faith can certainly be difficult.
	But for me, For me, the coolest part has been, and I've heard you talk about this before too, but has been learning to surrender.
	And really, that is the only thing I've learned through all of Hallow and all of my own spiritual life, is just learning in everything to surrender.
	And with Hallow, he just makes it so tactical and so obvious.
	Like, there was this first, our first real fundraise that we did, which is, you know, it was certainly the...
	Primary time that we needed money.
	I was building this off my credit card and we had drained our 401ks and we had this great team who was working really hard, but we were certainly running out of money.
	And we did this fundraise, and I remember I pitched a ton of people, like 80 people over the course of two weeks.
	And they essentially all said no.
	And the no's came really quick.
	I got like 75 no's in the course of two weeks.
	And mostly just like, hey, you're not the right person to build this.
	This isn't a good idea.
	Nobody's going to pray.
	This spirituality thing is dead.
	It's all about kind of mindfulness and secular spirituality and all this stuff.
	And I remember I just came back to my...
	Little studio apartment and I was just like beset with this heaviness and this weight and this stress and I had like knots in my back I couldn't eat I couldn't sleep and I sat down and I prayed and I was like God look I don't know how to do this I think you chose the wrong guy for this I am clearly not the right guy all these people are saying that I'm the wrong guy and you know I don't know if this idea is gonna work all these things and the only thing I know what to do is to make a deal with you and I said you know God If you want this thing to work,
	you'll make it work, and I promise you, you will always get the credit.
	I'm never going to trick myself into thinking I'm some successful person who figured this out or entrepreneur or evangelist or whatever it is.
	I know you're the one doing it.
	I'm always going to give you the credit.
	At the same time, my deal with you is if it doesn't work, that's not on me, that's on you.
	You are going to be the one to take the weight of that.
	I'm going to work hard.
	I'm going to do the best that I can, but it's your thing.
	And if you wanted to humble me or teach me some lesson or reach out to somebody and inspire somebody else to do something, fine.
	It's your thing.
	And it was just this weight.
	That immediately came off of my shoulders.
	And the next day, we got an offer to fund the whole thing.
	And then we got like three or four more the following.
	But it was just this beautiful example.
	And I can tell maybe 10 stories of that.
	But every time at Hallow that something successful has happened, either from the world's perspective or from God's or the mission perspective, it has always been God.
	The same pattern of us trying to cling to something really tightly.
	And then...
	Letting go and saying, God, look, if you want this to happen, it's going to happen.
	And then he does these incredible things with it.
	So for us, it's just getting to watch what happens when we surrender and let God work.
	It's very similar to a lot of conversations I've had about people.
	It seems quite a common theme that they surrender and allowing Christ to carry for you something that otherwise...
	It might become tethered to self.
	Even Jonathan Rumi, who I know is my friend, who's on your app A Bunch, his story about just before getting cast in The Chosen is really similar to your story.
	I'm wondering about everything I'm doing at the moment because I'm at that very pivotal point, Alex, where I'm...
	I don't know how many transitions you've had across your life.
	I guess everyone's life must seem episodic from the inside.
	But I came to faith on the 28th of April there.
	And now, you know, not only do I have questions about entertainment, As an industry, and the function and purpose of entertainment, and of course I'm aware of the many analogies that exist that describe things as tools,
	and a tool can be used for good or bad, and it tends to be where these conversations sort of go, but in practice and in purpose, scalpels do tend to be used to conduct surgery, whereas daggers tend to get used to plunge into human bodies.
	What I feel like is that I've moved away from entertainment.
	It wasn't even a deliberate choice.
	I turned my back on Hollywood because I realized how corrupt it was.
	There were so many factors, including it not being as smooth a ride as I thought it would be.
	If people kept offering me a bunch of money to be in a bunch of movies, I might have kept saying a bunch of yeses.
	But that's not how it went.
	And now, even in the world where you might call it alternative news or independent media, I similarly feel like such important work has been done in telling the truth in this kind of space by loads of people.
	I just think that whether it's the way the coronavirus was handled or whether the Ukraine-Russia conflict is playing out, two of the most obvious issues.
	Centralised systems of power that I do not think are separate from evil, Alex.
	I do not consider them to be separate from evil.
	I consider them to be a clear expression of evil.
	Are now challenged.
	But myself now, mate, I feel like, you know, I want to be more closely alloyed to Jesus.
	And I know that a lot of new converted people feel that.
	But it...
	I don't know.
	It happened organically.
	I just was like, before getting baptized, I was just like, you know, look, I'm reading these things.
	I'm having these conversations about Christ.
	Right now I'm baptized.
	And I was just talking about it.
	And then that just started to be the stuff that people were watching and asking me about.
	And there's a revival happening, isn't there?
	And, you know, I talked to Dallas Jenkins of The Chosen about it.
	I've spoken to a lot of people about it, and you seem like another person I should ask.
	Do you feel like there's a revival taking place?
	And if there is a revival taking place, ought those of us that believe in this thing be acting like the early Christians and, you know, devoting ourselves in a very, very sincere and absolute way?
	Yeah, I mean, I certainly think there's a revival happening.
	I've thought so for...
	For a while, but it seems like, you know, there's at least more external signs now than there were.
	We started Hallow maybe five and a half, six years ago.
	And, you know, we have this incredible blessing of getting to journey with folks in their relationship with the Lord and watch what He does in their life.
	And so, you know, at a normal church, you might have, you know, maybe a couple thousand people.
	But we have this incredible privilege of getting to receive these notes from folks who have, really over the last five years, but it's increasingly so certainly over the last few years, but folks who are really lost, people in really tough times.
	I mean, it's a lot of folks.
	It's people who take their faith seriously, people who have been going to church for a while, who are able to encounter the Lord in a new way, but especially for us.
	It's these stories of people who are really lost.
	I mean, you know, we certainly have many addicts who have been struggling with addiction for 10, 20, 30 years who are able to find some sense of, who are able to be sober.
	Through the grace of the Lord.
	We have moms and dads who have lost children who are able to find some sense of hope and peace again.
	We have young people who are really struggling with depression and anxiety who are able to find love in the Lord.
	Like, we had this one young woman reach out to us and said she'd never heard anyone say she was beautiful, which is the father of a, like, four-year-old daughter, breaks my heart.
	And, you know, she's in college, and she prays some meditation on hallow and in the silence.
	It's not a, you know, most of hallow is just trying to structure how...
	We hear the Lord in silence.
	But she hears the Lord say, you are beautifully and wonderfully made.
	Do you think I make mistakes?
	And it's just like, and she then walks back to the Lord.
	We had this other young person who was struggling with this habitual sin, this state of deep sin, and was addicted to, you know, many things of the world, but certainly lost and had this prayer experience where she was talking to the Lord.
	She just said, look, I'm not worthy.
	I'm so wrong.
	I'm so broken.
	Like, you can't possibly love me.
	And he just says, I love you.
	And they just have this, like, 10-minute prayer session where she just says, no, you can't love me.
	And he just says, I love you.
	No, you can't love me.
	I love you.
	And it's funny because, like, I don't know, one of the most beautiful examples of what happens in prayer is the story of the prodigal son.
	You know, we're all that prodigal son, and we're all fallen away from the Lord.
	We've all ran away from Him.
	And as soon as we start even coming back, while we are still a long way off, the Father runs out to us with open arms and hugs us and embraces us.
	But I mean, I think you see this.
	So we've seen this revival in individuals.
	I mean, they just send us these notes now every day where we see what God is doing in people who have really fallen away.
	But I think you start to see it.
	You know, broadly in the culture, I think you start to see it, obviously with The Chosen, with Hallow, with any of these things that have started to take off.
	You've got these podcasts, like Father Mike's podcast that takes off.
	I mean, it's awesome to see.
	I think, so yeah, I certainly think there's a revival happening.
	You asked a lot of interesting things.
	You know, the surrender piece of it, I think like if you really boil down the spiritual life to one thing, it is this radical surrender.
	And we had this man who had just lost his wife.
	He was praying with us on the app, and he reached out, and his wife, they had like three or four kids.
	She was in her late 30s, and she was diagnosed with a terminal illness.
	And he says as soon as she was diagnosed, she had six months to live.
	As soon as she was diagnosed, he just was filled with this anxiety and this stress and this fear, and she just immediately was peaceful, like just this overwhelming sense of peace.
	And he asked her like three or four months into this journey of preparing for her death, like why?
	Are you so peaceful?
	How are you able to find this sense of grace, this sense of peace?
	And she goes, you know what I realized?
	I realized that everything in life, like this whole, all the things that we do in this world, in our life on earth.
	Are just practice.
	They're just tools for us to practice learning to surrender our lives to the Lord completely in every moment.
	To die to ourselves and to surrender ourselves to the Lord, just like the Son of God did on the cross.
	And just like we're called to do at the end of our life, obviously, is to commend our spirits to the Lord.
	But it's this radical surrender, which takes, to your point, I think often people will say, you know, yeah, your point on...
	Well, there's tools.
	Everything is a tool, and God can sanctify it, which I think is true.
	God can sanctify media with the chosen.
	God can sanctify podcasts.
	God can sanctify your phone, even though the vast majority of what technology is used for is evil.
	But at the same time, especially in the beginning of our journey, there is this radical detachment you have to have from the things that...
	Pull you to the world.
	And it's not this gradual thing.
	It's not this little thing.
	It's not like, I'll give a little bit more of the Lord.
	Now, sometimes it might take a long time, but it's this radical detachment from the things of the world.
	And, you know, God, Jesus says this very clearly.
	Like, it's better that you cut off your arm.
	It's better that you cut off your hand than that it causes you to sin.
	Now, your hand is, God made your hand.
	So it's, you know, it's a good thing.
	Your hand is a good thing.
	God made it.
	He gave it to you as a gift.
	But he's saying it's better.
	To cut off your hand, then it leads you to sin.
	And the radical nature, like if you really saw your soul the way God sees your soul, anything that leads you to sin, you would cut off.
	And I don't know, I've experienced this in my own life.
	And it's, you know, like in my relationship with my wife.
	Like I, you know, I was a piece of crap.
	I came back to my faith, you know, much later in life, fell away from my faith and came back to it really because it's...
	Through prayer and led to the starting of Hallow, so really like six, seven years ago.
	But, you know, prayer at the core is just love.
	And it's the simplest expression of what our relationship with the Lord is, is love.
	And so a good analogy is, you know, the love that we have here on earth for...
	You know, our fellow human beings.
	And the relationship that I had with my wife was a fascinating one because I dated all these people, and I would always keep texting other people while I was dating someone else.
	And, you know, whatever.
	When you break up with somebody, you go be with somebody else and whatever it is.
	And that was my college experience, which is following the ways of the world, which to your point on the large institutions and the ways of the world being destruction and evil, I think they certainly are.
	Like, the normal mode of operating is Satan's, not...
	You know, the normal thing that happens in the world is evil.
	It is destruction.
	But as soon as I met my wife, there was something different.
	It was like I met her and I was like, this is the woman I want to marry.
	I was blessed.
	The first moment I saw her, I was like, I want to marry this woman.
	I don't know what it is.
	She was incredibly holy, the most beautiful woman I've ever met.
	And as soon as I met her, I texted everybody that I had been texting before and I was like, I'm not speaking to you anymore.
	Sorry, I can't.
	It's not like you're not a bad person.
	It's not that I don't enjoy our friendship.
	I just don't.
	You know, I don't trust myself.
	I need to disconnect completely from the things that I was doing before so that I could be wholly and completely devoted to my wife.
	And that was such a blessing.
	Now, it was like, I wish I didn't have to do that.
	I wish I wasn't as fallen and broken.
	Like, I could still maintain these relationships or these friendships.
	But I had to for myself.
	And that's like, I don't know, the spiritual life for us is...
	Very similar.
	It's like, you know, when you first come back to the faith, and St. Teresa of Avila, there's two really great mystics, and the thing that really brought me back to the faith was the mystical tradition of the Catholic Church, but Christianity broadly, and there's two really great Christian mystics.
	The one, obviously, St. Paul is a great Christian mystic, Mary and our Lord, of course, obviously, but the two great saints in more recent times are St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, and they both describe this journey, and this journey to the Lord.
	It's called sometimes the purgative way.
	St. John of the Cross calls it the dark night of the soul.
	St. Teresa Avila has this image of the mansions of the heart and you're journeying closer to the Lord at the center of your heart.
	But what happens at the beginning is like this radical denial of everything in the world, like this radical cutting off from everything and living a life to try to live a life fully on fire for the Lord.
	And it's this combination of prayer and fasting, which, you know, during the season of Lent is the focus, along with like giving alms, which is, you know, an incredibly important part of, you know, fasting from the material goods that you have, but also trying to be generous and charitable.
	But it's this combination of prayer and fasting.
	And so with fasting, you try to disconnect radically from everything in the world.
	St. Teresa of Avila has this quote that says, no one who is connected to any of the visible things could enjoy the invisible things.
	And St. John of the Cross has this prayer where he says, you know, I seek in all things what.
	Not what is easiest, but what is most difficult.
	Not what is most delightful, but what is harshest.
	And so it's this radical, like, I want to disconnect from everything in the world.
	All my vanities, all my pride, all my lust, all my greed, everything that might even, like, tempt me to lead to something or an occasion of sin or an opportunity for me to connect to those.
	I have to disconnect to them totally so that I can give my heart fully to the Lord.
	And then what God does with that is He then takes it back and sanctifies it through everything.
	So I think, you know, like, when I hear you talk about, I feel...
	I feel like people are telling me it's okay to still kind of be involved in these things and I just kind of want to give myself totally to Jesus.
	It's like, yeah, I think that's, you know, when I read these folks and in my own journey, it's like that is, I think, the way to a deeper relationship with the Lord is totally radically cutting off from these things.
	Now, at the same time, God can use the things that you're doing to sanctify the world.
	And I think one of the things, you know, we've seen at Hallow and one of the things that I see is you have this The thing that gets us most excited about the work that we do is going after the lost sheep, going after the lost lamb, going after the one, not the 99. It's like, man, I do that.
	There's a young woman who wrote in who was about to commit suicide and ended up praying with the app the night before she ended her life, and she realized that God was present, that he was with her in the bathroom where she was trying to end her life, and he saved her life, and she dedicated the rest of her life to serving him and has been for the last three years.
	And it's like, man, I would do that for the rest of my life.
	If you told me, hey, you're going to work for 50 years, everyone's going to hate you, you're going to be thrown in jail, they're going to kill you, they're going to take all your money, your family, everything.
	But you get to do...
	You get to be one small part in this young woman not ending her life and journeying closer to the Lord.
	It's like, yeah, I'd do that forever.
	And so for you, it's like you have this really unique way.
	And ability and gift that God has given you to reach out to folks, especially folks who don't take, you know, traditional faith or a traditional relationship with Jesus seriously.
	And, you know, you have this focus on the spiritual aspect of it, which for me is the thing that changed my own life.
	It's the only thing we're trying to focus on and how, and I think is the core of faith is this radical, beautiful mysticism and spirituality that changes the life.
	So I think for us, it's like you have this...
	gift of reaching out to folks in a really unique way and folks where, you know, like other people really struggle to reach out to them in a way that resonates with them.
	And so I think you have this tremendous gift to use whatever platform God has given you to glorify him.
	But yeah, you certainly, I think for me, at least it's, you know, cutting off many hands so that I don't sin and I try to give my heart fully to the Lord.
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	Alex, there's a lot you said, obviously, but when you talked about St. Teresa of Avalon and John of the Cross there, and that radical detachment and radical surrender, if Christ isn't at the centre of that, it becomes a kind of insanity.
	Isn't it peculiar how much ambiguity...
	This ambivalence and paradox is found in this world of the spirit, that if it isn't devoted to him, it becomes a kind of insanity.
	Someone sent me Chesterton, G.K. Chesterton's book on St. Francis.
	I just sort of like opened it, you know, like checking it out.
	It's not something I knew anything about.
	He says that Cheston's writing of St. Francis, and I think speculatively, because I don't know what kind of documentation St. Francis leaves.
	I've not looked into it.
	He said a few things, Cheston.
	One of the things is, he goes, landscape painters sometimes would look at the landscape they were painting upside down to get a better perspective on it.
	St. Francis had experienced this radical inversion.
	We were all...
	All told as boys, says Chesterton, that if you burrowed down into the centre of the earth, there will be some pivotal moment where you didn't feel like you were going down anymore, but that you were coming up towards the surface on the other side.
	St. Francis was in a cave, he says, and like all of us, you know, Joseph in the pit, you know, Jonah in the belly, our Lord.
	In the tomb.
	All of us go into this place.
	In it, you describe this thing, right?
	This really blows my mind, because I just had this moment of personal collapse and despair yesterday.
	I have them pretty frequently.
	It seems like it's sort of part of being me, a bit like when you were saying that thing, the knots in your neck and your back and all that, and the transformation of sending the text out after me in that sort of earthly moment of salvation through, not through transaction, but through relationship, for surely he is relational, essence, free person in one God.
	I had this moment of collapse, and And I went into the room and someone had sent me this St. Francis thing.
	And there was one moment where he says, the word dependency literally means hung upon.
	Hung upon.
	And like he was saying, reality is hung upon God's vision.
	And I'd recently written this thing about sort of running into Trump.
	Not running into him, actually.
	Quite the opposite.
	I didn't sort of see him.
	But look at this.
	I wrote this thing.
	I went to Mar-a-Lago and there's this minute where Trump went up on the stage and I was praying the rosary, actually.
	So I sort of missed the moment when I was meant to meet Trump because I was praying the rosary and doing my other prayers also.
	So then I come back and I can hear Trump behind this garden wall, essentially.
	And this is what I write.
	Between the populace and pullulating pool where YMCA gladly played.
	And his cordoned Mar-a-Lago quarters, I glimpsed the air-locked Donald Trump in repose as a member of security disclosed details or plausible logistics to the suspended president.
	It was only 30 seconds and he couldn't see me staring, so I paused.
	Once, through a telescope, I looked at Jupiter and in black and white breathed in his fragile moons.
	724 million miles away, but present and immediate in my eye.
	It is not the power of the King of Kings that strikes, but the precious vulnerability.
	Jupiter hung upon the tender thread of the moment to which we are all hostage.
	And this...
	This description that Chesterton offers of St. Francis' vision of the world, the person that goes into the moment of despair, like we all must if we're to find God, to dedicate ourselves to God, absolutely.
	And this description of the world of sort of being hung upon God.
	Hung upon God's greatness and grace.
	And this necessity of despair, like you've described in this conversation, it's the suicidal, it's the drug addicted, it's the parent that loses a child, it's the heartbreak and the hopelessness that in the end shows you that the world will not work for you and that the world and its institutions, as you've said as well, have fallen into the hands of the evil one.
	And it's through this brokenness and despair, but that a new covenant is achieved by His grace.
	And, yeah, I know that, you know, it's not a question, is it?
	It's just an announcement, really.
	It's beautiful.
	I recognize that you, thanks, thanks, thanks, Alex.
	I recognize that you're on it, like, that you are able, like, so I meet someone that's developed an app or whatever.
	I figure that...
	You know, when I project myself onto your situation, I think, I'd be like, yeah, man!
	I've got an app, motherfucker!
	And then I see that you have, you know, not bypassed it, surpassed it, transcended it, hand in hand with him.
	I think it's, I mean, that last point is, you said a lot of things in there, obviously, that are pretty interesting.
	The last point is a fascinating one.
	I actually had this question from somebody that said, recently, That somebody said, like, do you think that by being more devout, God will give you a more successful company or a more successful startup or app or whatever it is?
	And it's like, you know, no, it's exactly radically the opposite.
	You know, like he, the closer you get to Christ.
	The heavier the crosses He gives you.
	And the more you want them, the more you desire to suffer for His glory so that your soul can be transformed to grow closer to Him.
	And the more you realize your humility.
	There's this analogy of discovering sin.
	I think it was some pastor who told me it.
	It was like driving a car.
	And if you're driving away from the sun, you can't see any of the cracks.
	In your windshield or the fog or the dirt or whatever it is.
	But as soon as you turn back towards the sun, you see everything.
	You see all these imperfections.
	And as you journey closer to the Lord, it has to be founded in humility.
	And again, I'm obsessed with St. Teresa of Aviles outside her all the time.
	But she has this radical humility as she deepens in her relationship with the Lord.
	And to the point where she's this incredibly holy nun.
	Lives her life trying to build up the church and to serve the poor, and she says she is the chief among all sinners, like St. Paul.
	She can't imagine someone a worse sinner than her, which is such a radical thing to say.
	But it is this, what you said, which I thought was really beautiful, is these radical contradictions.
	In our faith.
	I guess they're not contradictions, but what feel like contradictions for us.
	Like these two sides of things, and we so often use them to divide ourselves as Christians, but these two sides of things that God is both.
	Like, He is radical love and radical mercy.
	Yes.
	Absolutely.
	He is also radical truth and radical perfection and radical righteousness and radical justice.
	He is both.
	He holds both of them together.
	And what you said is like, yeah, in journeying deeper in a relationship with Him, and it's funny because it mostly happens for me and for the stuff that we do on Halloween in silence.
	Spending time with him in silence, or maybe at a rosary at Mar-a-Lago, which is awesome.
	I think it was St. John Paul II or something who said, of all the treasures of the Vatican, of all the art in the Vatican, there's billions and billions of dollars of treasures in Vatican, a lot of which is buried, a lot of which the public can't even see.
	He says, there is no greater treasure than the beads on my rosary.
	There's no greater treasure.
	But it is this contradiction where it's like, okay, well, if I want to become better, I have to humble myself.
	I have to become lower.
	And as I become lower, Christ lifts me up.
	It's like what he says, like, take the last seat at the table so that I, as the master of the ceremony, can come and bring you to the better seat.
	But your job is to humble yourself.
	Your job is to die to yourself completely.
	And, like, what you said is, yeah, the St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross stuff, you can run into the trap also there, where it's like, hey, it's my job to die to myself and to fast and to do all these really intense things.
	And what that does naturally, actually, is it builds up your ego.
	And it's like, oh, I'm a big deal.
	Like, I can fast, I pray all the time, I do all this cool stuff.
	And so what you need is this...
	No, actually, you can't even fast.
	You can't do anything except through Christ.
	The only thing you can do is through Christ.
	He has to be the center of everything, and he's the end to which you're aiming.
	You're trying to get there.
	He's the model that you follow, and he's the one who makes it happen, him with his spirit.
	And your point on St. Francis, I love Chesterton's phenomenal.
	He has all these amazing quotes.
	There was some newspaper that was sent out, and they ask, What is wrong with the world?
	And they ask for people to submit answers to it, and G.K. Chesterton submits an answer.
	He's a famous author at this point.
	He submits an answer, and it just says, I am.
	And he has—it's just like, yes, it's this—but his St. Francis book is beautiful.
	I haven't read it in a while, but I should reread it.
	But St. Francis, again, to your point, he encounters Christ.
	And he has this radical transformation, this radical transformation, where he gives away everything.
	And his father takes him to court in front of the bishop, and he throws off all his clothes, and he says, I'm not yours.
	I'm not part of this world anymore.
	I am going to dedicate myself completely to the Lord.
	And he goes and lives this crazy life.
	And Chesterton has this other thing where he calls it the five deaths of the church.
	And I think it's a really interesting way to think about our life, where most people think of Christianity and faith as this line.
	Where it just grows kind of gradually with time.
	And then, you know, it felt like, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, it felt like it was coming down.
	Like the new atheism, whatever, the rise of all this stuff.
	It's like it felt like the world was becoming secular and Christianity was dying.
	And so people were like, oh, no, Christianity is dying.
	That's an old thing.
	It's a thing of the past.
	We're not doing that anymore.
	And what Chesterton says is it has always felt like Christianity does not rise like a line.
	It does not go up and to the right.
	It is this...
	This historical pattern of death and resurrection, which follows our Lord.
	It feels often.
	It is felt many times.
	Christianity was dying in the world.
	But it does not die, and his line is beautiful.
	It cannot die because we have a God who knows his way out of the grave.
	But you think about the history of the church.
	You've got, obviously, the death of Jesus.
	Everybody thinks Christianity is done then.
	Then you kill all the apostles except one and send the one to exile, and you think the church is done then.
	And then it's, okay, well, it becomes Rome's religion, which is awesome.
	But then Rome falls, and usually when a...
	And then you have the rise of Islam, which is this massive, like, it takes off like wildfire you think is going to overtake the world, and it doesn't, and it bounces, but Christianity fights back.
	And then you have this, you know, the enlightenment and the...
	Darwin and evolution, and you think Christianity is dead, and it bounces back, and then you have this new atheism.
	And St. Francis, again, like St. Francis' story is he looks around a thousand years ago and sees the church is destroyed, and he hears God say, rebuild my church.
	And so he goes and rebuilds his church.
	So it's like Christianity is this story of death and resurrection, which follows, you know, it follows Scripture, obviously.
	You read the story of the Israelites.
	It follows the Old Testament.
	Like, they abandon God, and then they come back to God, and it follows our own personal life, like this process of this death.
	This death and resurrection.
	He said one more thing that really stuck out, too, because it's this beautiful mystical point, which is, like, it's funny for me, at least, like, the times that are the toughest, the times where I most despair, the times where I feel like, you know, I'm at the lowest, is also the times where I notice God's presence the most.
	Like, it's the time where I feel closest to Him, which is, it sucks, because it's like, man, I wish...
	I wish I didn't have to go through these terrible things, which in the grand scheme of things are certainly not terrible things, but I wish I didn't have to go through these to grow closer to them.
	And I was reflecting with my co-founder the other day of how frustrating it must be to be Satan, where he tries to use these things to pull you away from him.
	These things of the world or these things of despair or a bunch of people hating you, but if as a Christian you can...
	Give them to christ if you can if you can let christ into those moments It's the very things that god uses to bring you closest to him So it's like as a crit you have this superpower like satan attacks you and it's the very thing that god uses To to grow closest to him and at the the dark is always that the night is always darkest right before the dawn This is again st. John of the cross where he has this He's another great mystic,
	but he has this parable of the spiritual life or this story of the spiritual life is journeying through these dark nights and ascending the mountain.
	And what happens as you grow deeper in your faith is it's not like you feel great and happy and joyful all the time.
	Hopefully you try to grow in joy, but you don't feel happy.
	Your emotions certainly aren't elated and you don't feel positive all the time.
	Often it's very difficult.
	Often the journey is very hard.
	Like Mother Teresa says in her diary, I felt abandoned by God for decades.
	Not little periods of time, like really long, like very difficult journeys.
	But that God uses those times as opportunities for purification.
	He uses them to humble you, which is great.
	I've experienced many opportunities where I've been humbled.
	And then bring you deeper into a relationship with Him through that.
	Because the humble, the meek shall inherit the earth, not the proud and the big.
	And so we have to like, okay, well, it's kind of like if you were working out.
	And you were, whatever.
	I certainly am not.
	But you're a very advanced personal trainer or something.
	And somebody comes to you and they're like, well, how do I know that I'm advancing?
	How do I know that I'm getting stronger?
	How do I know that my body is getting more in shape, healthier?
	And the person would respond like, well, when your muscles really, really hurt, when it's like almost...
	Not pain, not physical pain, but where they're sore.
	You can barely lift anything.
	It's hard for you to walk.
	That's when your muscles are growing the most.
	So that's what you want to seek after.
	And as a person, not knowing what it takes to work out, you'd be like, that's really weird.
	That's a very odd...
	For me to get healthy, you want me to hurt?
	It's supposed to be like I can't lift anything?
	I thought the point was that I do lift things.
	And the point is like, yeah, it's through this process that you're made stronger.
	And it's the same thing with the spiritual life.
	It's like, okay, well, how do I know that I'm advancing?
	And it's like, well, when you feel really humbled, when you feel like you're smaller than everybody else, when you feel like you're destroyed, when you feel like you're beat down, like that.
	That is your muscles being sore.
	That is you, your soul being purified, your soul being brought deeper into a relationship with the Lord so that it's no longer you who live but Christ who lives within you.
	And Christ is the perfect example of these contradictions because he's God.
	God.
	He is the most powerful human that ever lived ever.
	And yet he humbled himself becoming obedient even to the point of death on a cross.
	And because of this, God greatly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name that at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bend and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
	And it's to the glory of God, the Father.
	And it's like, okay, so God...
	And he did not regard equality with God something to be grasped at.
	So the only person who could consider themselves equal with God did not require, did not view equality with God something to be grasped at.
	And yet what, like, that is the story of humanity.
	We are the ones who aren't worthy of that, and yet we grasp at it.
	And as soon as we, like, let go of that, then he makes us like himself.
	Like, he transforms us from one image of glory to the other.
	So it's this, not hilarious, but it's this radical contradiction, it seems to us, of...
	You know, to gain, to advance, we have to let go.
	We have to die.
	To get everything, we have to die to ourselves.
	Like, we don't puff ourselves up.
	We humble ourselves and we die to ourselves in every moment, which is this radical thing.
	But then God fills us with this glory and ultimately himself.
	Like, he is the one sitting at the center of your heart.
	Once you die to yourself, once you clear away all these clingings and vanities and whatever, he is the one, St. Teresa of Avila says, or even St. Paul says, St. Augustine says, Christ is closer to myself than I am to myself.
	And so it's this, like, beautiful...
	At the center of yourself is Christ.
	And so if you can rid all these worldly things, all these attachments, die to yourself, you let Christ have you and live through you.
	The delicious irony is that I imagine you could describe that in binary, which is a language that I would like to see it rendered in, that there is some absolute code.
	Alex, thank you so much for joining us today on Stay Free with Russell Brand.
	In spite of his rather evocative name in this space, Alex Jones is the CEO and co-founder of Halo.
	This is a perfect time to sign up to Hallow, and if you use our code, you get a discount and can join many brilliant leaders in this space for the period of Lent.
	Use our code to get a discount on that.
	Thanks again, Alex.
	Thanks.
	Appreciate you, Sharon.
	Well, thanks very much for joining us for the show today.
	We will be back tomorrow.
	Not with more of the same.
	Will we be back tomorrow?
	No, we will be back next week.
	Not with more of the same, but more of the different.
	And that different includes a conversation with Dan Crenshaw as long as great insights and analysis of the week's news.
	See you then.
	In the meantime, if you can, please stay free.
	Switch
	on, switch on, switch on. Switch on, switch off.
	Just want you to find me.
	Many switching.
	Switch on.
	Many switching.
	Switch on, switch on, switch on Men switch in, switch on, switch on Men switch in Switch on.
	Many switching.
	Switch on.
	Many switching.
	Switch on.
	Man, you switch in, switch on, switch on.

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