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Sept. 20, 2024 - Stay Free - Russel Brand

01:14:12

MIGRANT INVASION: “IT’S DIVIDE AND CONQUER” The TRUTH About Immigration & Open Borders - SF457

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	(birds chirping)
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	Brought to you by Pfizer.
	In this video, you're going to see the future.
	In this video, you're going to see the future.
	Hello there, you Awakening Wonders!
	Thanks for joining me for Stay Free with Russell Brand today.
	This is an important and special show.
	Well, why?
	Because you're in it?
	Actually, no.
	Because our guest, Majid Nawaz, has walked a peculiar path in UK media.
	If you're American, you may not have heard of him, so let me just give you the headlines.
	He's been cancelled from Legacy Media.
	He's at the forefront of the conversation when it comes to subjects like Islam, assimilation and integration, and the subject of migration.
	Do you agree with me?
	Let me know in the comments and chat.
	It's important to have conversations on the subject of integration.
	I spoke to Majid as honestly as I could about my belief that at some point in order to bring about peace, actual peace, there would have to be some kind of referenda on the subject of migration.
	At least that would happen in a representative republic or in an electoral democracy.
	People would say, look, we might believe in mass migration, but what do you guys think?
	Let us know via the ballot box.
	Let us know.
	And I wish I'd covered this a little more because I think this is important.
	We talked a little bit about the unique example of the country of Ireland and how Ireland was condemned as racist in the same way that countries like yours, the United States of America and mine, the United Kingdom would be because of our imperialist colonial past, because of our foreign misadventures, because corporations in our name and under our flag have exploited the continent of Africa and nations across the world and therefore contributed to the migration crisis.
	I wonder if you've seen the fantastic conversations on, what was it, breaking points I saw, where talking about the subject of Haitian immigration into your country, America, the important points of the way that that nation has been destabilized by aspects of American imperialism isn't often enough explained.
	If we are looking at For ways.
	And are we doing this?
	Is this what we're trying to do?
	People from different communities to come together?
	Are we trying to do that?
	To oppose centralised authoritarianism?
	Then these are the kind of conversations that have to take place.
	As well as the excellent conversation between Matt Walsh and what's that dude called on there, Gal?
	Yeah, Ryan Grimm, man, on Breaking Point.
	It's really worth having a look at that.
	It was a pretty fascinating conversation, even though the way you see it posted is like, Matt Walsh gets schooled on Haitians and stuff.
	Even that's somewhat incendiary.
	What I liked about it is when you look thoroughly at the subject of migration, you realise how it benefits elites everywhere and it is detrimental to ordinary people everywhere.
	And unless we're able to have the sophistication of thought and the power of spirit to overcome their diversionary and divisive tactics, we're in a lot of trouble.
	Before we get into magic noirs and this fantastic conversation, remember it's been up ...on locals for a month now, as well as brilliant little meditations.
	If you want to become an Awaken Wonder, you can just click the link that we're posting now on Rumble, and if you're watching this on YouTube, we're going to be there for about another 10 minutes before leaving you, because it's too crazy over there on YouTube, too much censorship.
	I just want to show you the sort of stuff we do over there.
	Look, this is a little meditation that I did on, uh, what book was it?
	Colosseum 3-2.
	Someone in our community, one of the Awaken Wonders on locals, pitched it, and we did it, because, I don't know, we're compliant.
	Anything you feel, offer it to him.
	Sadness, anger, despair, boredom, irritation, agitation, love, joy, anything, offer it all to him where he sits at the right hand.
	You can use an image here, of course, another helpful thing.
	So we're not praying to a diffuse, non-temporal, aspatial entity, but to Jesus Christ, God made flesh, sacrificed that we may be atoned Oh, I looked so much smarter that day, didn't I?
	I'm wearing that lovely shirt.
	That's my wife's shirt.
	Hair looked good.
	I feel kind of scruffy today.
	I sort of regret looking at that.
	Hey, the election campaign continues to be giddy, divisive, and scary, but Donald Trump is at least doing what he does rather well, entertaining at rallies.
	Let's have a look.
	We can do all of this and more, but patriotic New Yorkers must get your asses out to vote.
	How do you get out?
	Get it, get out.
	Harry, get up, Harry!
	Harry, get your fat ass out of the couch!
	You're gonna vote for Trump today, Harry!
	Get up, Harry!
	Come on, let's go!
	Let's go, Harry!
	Harry, get your fat ass up off of the couch, Harry!
	Get your fat ass up!
	Compare that to the kind of stifled and stilted personhood of Kamala.
	Look, I don't mind who you vote for.
	I don't know anything.
	But, like, this is an old clip of Kamala saying, like, you know, that people should be out forcibly in their homes to check your firearms.
	No, it's going to bug a hell of a lot of you.
	I'm more interested in the, I don't know, the essence, the charisma, the calibre of a person.
	That's not a person who should be running the country.
	Not even in a dystopia.
	Responsible behaviours among everybody in the community and just because you legally possess a gun in the sanctity of your locked home doesn't mean that we're not going to walk into that home and check to see if you're being responsible and safe in the way you conduct your affair.
	Have you heard?
	I don't think they recognize that kind of stuff as authoritarianism.
	I don't think they do.
	I think they think that's the normal way of talking.
	We've all been kind of schooled in it and the pandemic kind of Augmented the idea that you want the state to take care of you, or that you will permit the state to take care of you.
	That the state can enable corporations to take those kind of diabolical liberties.
	But it's always been there, the tendency.
	You can see it in that rhetoric there, just because, you know, we might be able to come in your home and check your gun.
	Something like, you know, I don't own a gun, but, you know.
	Who knows what the future holds, guys?
	Who knows what the future holds?
	All right, here's MSNBC saying that Kamala is an inspiration because she's a product of a mixed marriage.
	Actually, I believe that love does conquer all.
	I believe we do have more in common than divides us.
	I do believe that if people love one another, they should be allowed to be together.
	But let's see what MSNBC do with this political...
	But Kamala Harris would be just the opposite.
	Why?
	Because she's an inspiration.
	Not only is she positive, and does she bring hope and optimism, but as a black woman, the product of a mixed marriage.
	It's so funny to see this guy say, I don't know who he is, a former senior military official, you know, it's good though, isn't it?
	I've had conversations like that sometimes, when I've been talking to advisors that try to encourage me, you know, you're great, you, come on, you're a good guy, they're lucky to have you and this contract with you.
	It's very, like, that doesn't ring true.
	I don't think he believes that.
	He will inspire millions of people throughout the world.
	Our credibility as a nation, that we would be able to allow, our country is so great that we're allowed to win.
	Probably won't mind, you know, all of the imperialism, and the colonialism, and the ransacking of their resources, or the backing up of NATO as there are endless wars, or the extraordinary mismanagement of the Middle East.
	All of that's going to fade into the background when they see the different types of people that confront up For globalist, corporatist interests.
	A woman like that to become the Commander-in-Chief, the President of the United States, that is going to send a powerful message all over the world.
	People like Vladimir Putin are going to say, hey wait a minute, these guys, you know, they truly have democratic country, they truly are representative, they truly are fighting for all their people, and Kamala Harris is a manifestation of that.
	Wait a minute!
	They're truly represent... We can't nuke them!
	They're trying their hardest!
	What were we thinking?
	They got Kamala Harris there!
	Stand down the nuclear weapons.
	Kamala Harris has said that she is unburdened by what might have been.
	I think we have been a little over officious.
	Pretty insane reasoning.
	We can't make this content without the support of our many partners, and we certainly can't continue to make it on YouTube.
	If you watch us on YouTube, click the link in the description and join me for my conversation with Majid Nawaz, commentator, pundit, cancelled and banned man.
	Articulate, brilliant speaker, is the kind of conversation that makes me believe that there could be alliances that would mean we could finally oppose globalism.
	Click that link in the description, join us over on Rumble, where free speech is acceptable and celebrated.
	You're gonna love this conversation between us.
	Now, let's have a quick look at a message from our partners.
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	If you're not an awakened wonder yet, consider becoming one.
	We make all manner of additional incredible content for our beloved community.
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	Behold, enjoy.
	I'll give you a bit of advice.
	Where are you going?
	Get back to your seat!
	Nobody leaves!
	That energy really affected me as a stand-up comedian.
	Sometimes when I used to do stand-up in small venues, if someone went to the toilet, I'd get the whole audience to leave and go and, like, hide.
	We're hiding.
	The whole audience is hiding.
	Because too many people went to the toilet, and to punish them, we're hiding from them now.
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	There they are, the traitors!
	Give him a round of applause!
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	Hey! You can come and see me at Rescue the West!
	Have a look at this image right there of me on that boat.
	We're going to be there next week.
	It's going to be fantastic.
	And remember, if you are on Awake and Wonder, if you email me at tickets at russellbrand.com, we can sort out for you some pairs of tickets to see me in Florida with Tucker Carlson.
	Just email us if you want to be considered for that.
	Magid Nawaz is a British activist, former radio presenter and founding chairman of the think tank Killian.
	In January 22, he was sacked from his job on LBC radio for posts about COVID-19 vaccinations.
	He was born in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, near me.
	...of a British-Pakistani family.
	He's a former member of the Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.
	His membership led to his 2001 arrest in Egypt, where he remained imprisoned until 2006.
	While there, he read books about human rights and made contact with Amnesty International, who adopted him as a prisoner of conscience.
	He left Hizb ut-Tahrir in 2007, renounced his Islamist past and called for secular Islam.
	It's a fantastic conversation.
	Magid, thanks for joining me, mate.
	Absolute pleasure, Russell.
	Good to be here.
	It's great to finally meet you and have a bit of time properly with you.
	Perhaps we'll start with a prayer each to show that we can enter into a spirit of collaboration and demonstrate our alliances.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, look, as a Muslim, the way we open any event or begin any action, whether it's eating, whether it's a chat such as this, we begin with the words, Bismillah, which in Arabic translates to, in the name of Allah.
	Allah is the Arabic for the Aramaic Allah, which is the word that Jesus Christ used to reference the same one source of life, permanent, infinite source of life.
	So, that's how we begin, usually, with the words, Bismillah.
	And it's an absolute honor and a pleasure to be here.
	Thank you very much for your invitation.
	Thank you.
	In the name of the Heavenly Father, Lord Jesus Christ, I pray that we can have a beautiful, open conversation together in the spirit of unity and good faith together, and that my dog don't bug us too much.
	Amen.
	Thank you.
	There's loads of things that we agree on, and we've had so many, in a sense, comparable experiences.
	We're both from the same area, and we've kind of ended up in a very similar place.
	Both of us, in a sense, living on the peripheral of communication spaces.
	Both of us subject to a degree of censorship.
	Both of us, in a way, outcast.
	It's really amazing.
	To be meeting a prominent British outspoken Muslim at a time where our country seems to be somewhat riven by precisely the relationships between at least a portion at the periphery of both the British working class and by at least by the rhetoric that's available to us.
	or should we say people at the periphery or outliers within Islam, I don't know what your
	favoured lexicon would be, but it's no question there's tension and that the tension between
	these communities is being used to legitimise whether it's like street protest, but certainly
	the ultimate aim and the exploitation that concerns and interests me most is the ability
	of the state to legitimise further authority by focusing on and targeting this unrest.
	How do you stay true to your own affiliation, alliance, faith, culture and community, while recognising that something quite exploitative is happening in our country when it comes to censorship, control, jail sentences for tweets here in the UK, people across the world saying that we've Well look, we both, you mentioned, come from the same area.
	I wonder what you in particular feel about that and how you're facing it.
	Well, we both, you mentioned come from the same area, we're both from Essex.
	Back in those days, and we're kind of roughly, I think a couple of years older than me, but
	rough same generation, there weren't too many people that are like me in Essex.
	I was born in Southend, grew up on the front, played about in Kurzweil State, Clooney Estate, in Pitsy and the Council Estates there.
	I had mates across the area and it made for a different upbringing to then if I would been raised in say East London where there was a concentration of Muslims.
	So I had a very interesting perspective on what it felt like to be somebody that whose I'm up until about teenage years exclusively when my friends were white English.
	Right.
	Then I ended up mixing with the West Indian group of friends and we got into hip-hop together from my teenage years until I left home at 16 and then I moved to East London.
	But it's very interesting for me to see the way in which the UK has changed and you're right to identify these fissure points.
	Whereas it used to be about racism in the old days and the bad old days of racism in this country up until the whole Stephen Lawrence case and you know that kind of led to a bit of a catharsis moment for the for the nation.
	Now it's less about race and more about cultural identity.
	and migration. And I think integration and what it means to be British has led to certain
	tension points. And what you've just alluded to, the riots that we just experienced, sadly
	in this country, two refugee hotels were torched, a mosque was attacked, all based off of a
	false online rumour that the attacker was a Syrian Muslim refugee, when in fact the
	attacker was born in Wales. These point to modern new points of tension and again, without
	beating around the bush, a lot of that comes down to the place of Muslims in Britain. And
	I think it's really important that everything that I've been trying to do and with working
	with a wider network, what we've been trying to do up until this point is to try and navigate
	that space. What does it mean to be a Muslim in Britain today? What does it mean to integrate?
	Integrate into what? Is it a one way street integration?
	Is it a two-way street?
	And all of that is pretty much the debate we've been having over the course of the last two decades.
	And we've made some progress.
	Unfortunately, sometimes it feels like it's two steps forward, one step back.
	And we've just come into a one-step-back moment with these national riots.
	But that is really, I think, going to be one of the defining points going forward.
	And that is the place of Muslims, not just in Britain, but in Europe.
	And how we can navigate that space.
	What I'll say in conclusion to these opening thoughts, Russell, is that it is understandably going to be a challenging conversation because it's the first time in history it's been done.
	You could never before have a conversation with a Muslim who spent his entire life engaged in what it means to be a Muslim, including going to, as a political prisoner, going to jail for it in Egypt, right?
	For attempting to overthrow the Egyptian government.
	We can get to that if you like in a moment.
	But you would never be able to have a conversation with a Muslim in Britain who can say to you, oh yeah I was born in Essex, we kind of grew up in a similar environment, I'm British and what does it mean to be a British Muslim today?
	Because this is the first time in history we've had this kind of migration where people have been, Muslims have been born and raised in the West and feel part and parcel of that society and want a stake in having that conversation.
	We go back to medieval times, it was all conquest.
	It wasn't like, oh you've been born here, what does it feel like to be British if you're not You know, if you're a Muslim here, right?
	So it's the first time these conversations are happening, so naturally they will be new, it'll be new ground.
	On the subject of assimilation, and I suppose touching on the riots, whilst of course the flashpoint was the murder and subsequent erroneous and false reporting about a perpetrator of that murder, I think it's fair to say that in the last 10 years there have been escalating tensions More widely and deep concern about migration that's not being addressed.
	I would say Muslims in Britain and migration are in a sense separate subjects, although you probably argue well, I suppose at some point But I would see it separate because Well, what my faith and hope is, is that there's the possibility for indigenous white, or sort of, it wouldn't be just white, would it?
	It'd be black and a variety of cultures, Sikh, etc.
	Various cultures that are within Britain to get along with respect and regard for their own cultures and faiths.
	One thing I'm thinking about is that for, for want of a better term, working class British, which includes, I would say, Muslims, Christians, atheists, any conceivable faith.
	But in particular, say people like, you know, white British whose identification with the country would perhaps be conventionally connected to pre-war and post-war Britain and whatever cultural ephemera comes out of that.
	And the fact that I find it hard to define, I reckon, Magid, is part of the problem.
	Because when we talk about assimilation, what is the culture that we're assimilating into?
	Is it beer and football?
	Is it Christianity?
	Because it would seem to me that the culture is under attack from the top down.
	And this has always been my focus as a cultural commentator.
	I'm not trying to be grandiose about my position in this culture.
	I was only talking on the internet.
	My position has always been that we're under attack from top down, from both state bureaucracy
	but also global corporatism.
	That there's an annihilation of the values of the people of Britain, but also France,
	everywhere, like in the United States of America.
	When I'm having conversations, say, with conservative Americans, say, whether it's Ben Shapiro or
	Tucker Carlson or whoever, I'm always talking to them about the potential for alliance.
	And I'm always talking about the potential for us to live in communities that are decentralised
	and respectful and united in our opposition of the kind of state corporatism and global
	commercialism, that I think has stripped us of the kind of values that, as we discussed
	prior to getting on camera, would likely bring us together.
	As a recent Christian I believe that the values of Christianity are obviously personally very powerful.
	I'm not in like full evangelist mode yet where I'm thinking, oh, why don't the state take back on board these values?
	That's not where I'm sort of coming from.
	I'm wondering on the subject of assimilation that whether or not if the people, indigenous people, felt their culture was respected generally, I don't mean by migrants, I mean by the forces of government and forces of control, which I believe increasingly and I know that you do, are not even national powers but international and therefore global powers.
	If there was some sort of sense of preservation and respect for the culture, if the culture was being nourished and was thriving or even just bloody left alone to a degree of autonomy and respect, the possibility for assimilation would be more potent What do you feel about that?
	Right, so let's address two points from what you've just said there.
	One is, of course, there are long-serving, legitimate grievances that were festering that led to these riots.
	There always are.
	And whenever you see riots, I mean, I remember as a teenager, before the gentrification of Shoreditch, I used to live in Whitechapel, and I was there when the Brit Lane riots took place, because Al-Trabali was murdered in what's now a park named after his name there in Whitechapel.
	When was that, mate?
	This is like early 90s.
	Now, at the end of the day, whether it's those riots or whether it's these recent ones that we've just mentioned, there's always going to be legitimate grievances behind them.
	And migration is one of those legitimate conversations.
	And it links to integration, which is the second point you've just raised there about what is the culture that we're all assimilating into when we're in this country.
	Now, on that point, what I'd like to say is that it becomes incredibly important If we're expecting migrants and people that are from minority communities to integrate in Britain, for us to know what that means, right?
	And as we kind of alluded to before coming on air, integrate into what?
	Because when I look at recent political social history in not just the UK but around the world, in the Western world in particular, what I'm finding is a state-heavy culture That is asking not just minority communities, not just Muslims, but everybody to integrate into the kind of culture that says that you can be coerced to take medical experimental injections against your will or get sacked.
	That you can be coerced against your parental better knowledge to have your children transition gender without your consent.
	That you can be coerced off or out of work, booted off your only means of earning a living for wrong think, right?
	That you can be detained under legislation that criminalizes thought and speech.
	And so, do I want to integrate into all of that?
	Do I want to integrate into a culture that says I can be jabbed against my will?
	That says I can be masked or gagged?
	I never complied with any of those mandates.
	Why, LBC sacked me, by the way.
	LBC is a British radio station on which Magid was a popular presenter up until...
	And you lost your job exactly why?
	I boycotted the booster shots and all other shots after that point saying that this is ridiculous when they implemented the no jab no job thing for the NHS staff and I came out against that and they basically sat me on Twitter which was a very interesting way to do it and it was I had three months left on my contract.
	There's no kind of doubt that it was a sacking.
	And we had a new contract negotiated, ready to sign, but the COVID thing was such a censorious, kind of machine-driven policy that it could tolerate no dissent.
	So on that point, again, is that what we're integrating into?
	So it comes down to what is it you want people to subscribe to as part of our culture?
	And then that becomes a discussion of values.
	So talking about migration, for example, If you want them to integrate or assimilate, doesn't matter for me, the semantics are less important, because it matters what values we're asking people to subscribe to.
	Now, I, for the better part of the last two decades, whether it was through the counter-extremism work that I've been involved in, having founded an organization called Quilliam, that has its faults because nothing's perfect.
	We tried, but that's a previous chapter.
	I shut it down during COVID.
	But whether it's the counter-extremism work, whether it's the work on Global's LBC through the talk radio, I'm advocating for certain core values that I believe would have done us all good, which were fundamentally resting in civil liberties and a respect for the individual and for freedoms and free speech.
	But if we can agree on what those values are, we then have a mandate to ask migrants and other new arrivals to this country to integrate into something.
	And also, we then have a criterion by which to judge.
	So, for example, if we say like, okay, it's not racist to say that I want to curtail immigration.
	Why is it not racist?
	Because to understand a nation has an identity and has a certain set of values around which it coalesces, that cannot be sustained with an open border policy because you can't create that kind of community around those values if people are coming and going At will.
	You have to have a place called home that people settle in.
	And that requires points of entry and points of exit.
	Like a house, right?
	In a house it has a certain atmosphere, a certain culture.
	So that's called a nation state.
	Which is built around a set of certain values.
	So, if we were to assume freedom of speech is one of those values, every value that I think you and I could agree on, that we'd want this word integration to apply to, free speech, individual liberties, free conscience, spiritual values, whatever those values are that I think we could probably agree on, I think we'd also agree that they've almost universally all come under attack.
	Recently and so that's the key thing there is that whatever we want people to integrate into is is currently facing a head-on Assault by certain powers that do not have a sense of belonging in our nation because they are global I call them globalists and they have a vested interest in Undermining those values so that the nation cannot stand on its own two feet why because then corporate power comes in from abroad and And it fills that void.
	And it fills that void for the sake of profit.
	And that's what we've been seeing and feeling.
	Everyone in our generation, kind of in their 40s, remembers what life used to be like.
	And remembers what communities used to be like.
	And it's not painting a rosy picture.
	No one's nostalgic.
	about the past we just know certain things that used to happen because i remember when youtube was invented i remember when mobile phones were invented so we know what it used to feel like to go outside and play until sunset and our parents had no way of getting hold of us other than come home for dinner and we'd say all right mom i'll come home for dinner right We can't continue to bring you this beautiful content without the support of our partners.
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	So we've got a certain experience in life that wasn't what I call now the atomized online culture where literally you're connected to the entire world but you've never been more alone because you're sitting there hunched over a device Imagine what we're getting into is some pretty existential and essential areas that transcend cultural arguments and lead us back to the area where I reckon we have a consensus that globalism
	And, like, just to define that term as I'm using it, is that there are a set of institutions and powers that are not subject to electoral democracy nor even national sovereignty.
	In fact, via which national sovereignty is subjugated is the main way in which people of all religions, cultures and races are oppressed, if necessary.
	And the freedoms that we are granted are only freedoms that can exist within the remit of their agenda being fulfilled.
	See, the way What I get, even from the first part of our conversation, is that were we able to openly talk about, even to the point of having a referendum, where are most people in the UK or the United States, you know, in any nation, where are we as a people on the subject of migration?
	Do people want it curtailed?
	Do people want a net migration bigger each year?
	But one of the fears that I have is that once that was established as a principle, and it seems like a necessary one, people across the cultural, religious and political spectrum are beginning to identify it.
	Certainly in the dog-eat-dog of bipartisan, uniparty politics, it's been accepted that you at least have to parrot the right points on it.
	Like whether you're Kamala Harris, you've got to say, build the wall, or whether you're Keir Starmer, you've got to say, migration is an issue, and attack Rishi Sunak, former leader, on that very subject.
	Where my concerns are is, would that be the beginning of a kind of a purge, of like, right, we've stopped migration now, and now what we're going to do is we're getting into deport and send them back territory.
	Now what I was interested in when you touched on Quilliam, which was what I was aware of and what I was familiar with, Is this, you talked about it was an anti-extremism thing, and extremism is not particular to any ideology.
	Often when we talk about extremism, the phrase that I'm even reluctant to use because of my background is like, Islamic extremism.
	But probably we could use a different or at least a more particular type of language, say like, violence.
	We could just talk about like now what any community that's using violence against another community for me has transgressed against that community and if the conditions that led to the riots in our country were to a degree brought around because of the tensions around migration and the well-publicized issues that as you are imagining we're referring to mate when you said stuff was festering And we touched on it a bit before, like grooming gangs and, you know, if we're talking about like the communities where there are ongoing social tensions between, for want of a better phrase, white working class communities and Muslim communities, there's a sense that there's a separation, a sort of kind of voluntary segregation and an ongoing tension.
	I try and look ahead and think, like, well, say if there was a consensus in Britain, like, right, we're going to go for net zero migration, and that, by the way, means whatever colour you are or whatever race you are, you know, you could be coming from Sweden or Iceland or America, or you could be coming from Libya or Sudan or wherever, and we're not having no more people because we feel that we can't handle it no more for the economic reasons that are outlined by, broadly speaking, People on the right we would when is the conversation going to take place about well, there are Muslim communities here now What are we saying when you say something like anti-extremism?
	What is the extremism that you're referring to in?
	Now not native but you know, I don't know what the right word is Muslim communities that are here and settled and have been here for ages and are part of the community.
	What is it?
	What would you term extremism with them communities?
	Would you mean that it's not congenial, convivial?
	Is it that like, you know, if you have a Muslim population as significant as we have in Britain, you've got to have Muslim schools.
	You're going to have Muslim neighborhoods.
	And if that is the way it's going to go, how are we going to do that so that people do feel a sense of Whether it's integration or assimilation, you touched on the semantics and I was trying to think of what the difference is in my mind, and integration is almost like an interlock and overlap, and assimilation is somewhat more diffuse, and that idea of the melting pot.
	But indeed, what perhaps brings these tensions to the forefront is that Islam does offer a set of values, does offer prescriptive roles for males, females, families, communities, food, diet, festival, ceremony, etc.
	All things that I would be totally like, I'm like, I admire.
	and revere, and perhaps part of the problem is that Christianity has been so attacked,
	and the family has been so attacked, and maleness has been so attacked, and in some ways femaleness
	has been attacked, certainly that would be the arguments of feminism, that the host culture
	has been annihilated by globalism and corporatism, and what is the most easy sort of shadow appearance
	or opposition appearance is a strong, formerly migrant, but I would now say, you know, settled
	community, and what my prayer is, and I'm guessing this is what you were going for with
	Quilliam, is to say, like, what is our plan so that, you know, white or integrated white,
	black, Afro-Caribbean, whatever the right terms are, working class communities and middle
	class communities feel like, well, we know what the deal is now, because one of the things
	that sort of tends to go along with, say, moderate or not extreme is secularism, and
	yet I now see secularism as the actual extreme force, the extreme force is when you strip
	away God, when you place the state at the centre, indeed your list, Majid, was about
	the state's got too much power, the state is coercing us in a sort of medical way,
	We sort of see, don't we, what the root is here.
	CBDCs, authoritarianism, 15-minute cities, and even though people still like to ascribe that to be conspiratorial thinking, what I reckon another area that where you and I have total consensus is through the pandemic period we got a glimpse of what seemed like, if not a plan, although I think it was a plan, a kind of an inert force and an inert intention to regulate and citizen manage to
	previously unimagined degrees.
	And I think one of the great potential ways to oppose that would be if ordinary people
	of all cultures were able to come up with some kind of consensus among ourselves.
	Because I don't think it's coming from the top because they'd benefit from us being in
	states of tension where we're going to get on with Muslim communities here.
	These are the areas of tension.
	These are the areas that are of cooperation.
	So we know what areas we've got to work on.
	What do you reckon, within the Muslim community, them areas of tension are?
	What are the outliers or, forgive me if I'm saying the right word, what is the extreme part?
	It is the bit, you know, because say on the Sky News with the lads with the machetes and all that, that's what they're saying.
	When people are going two-tier policing, they say, what about these lads with machetes up in Brum, going around the bullring, all tooled up?
	Like they're saying, they're not doing that.
	Sky News are on saying, why extremist this?
	But check out these geezers in the background.
	But I can see why that would happen if you're a Muslim communion, there's riots going on, there's your grandmothers and your daughters and all that kind of stuff.
	Well, I mean, let's start with this, is that globalist corporate power has every incentive to keep our communities divided, right?
	Because that's divide and conquer.
	So when you look at it from that angle, you understand that there's a vested interest to break up communities, to turn our culture away from traditional values, And towards corporate values.
	And what I mean by corporate values is having a highly mobile workforce that isn't rooted in anywhere so that it can be moved about for the purposes of profit, including labor migration, which is what the open borders policy is about.
	It's about cheap labor for big corporates.
	When they outsource everything, it's about getting lower wages to have lower overheads so they can produce cheaper products.
	It's all consumerism.
	Now to succeed in consumerism, you need to be able to destroy communities.
	Because if you've got a community, what does that mean?
	It means everything working from within that community.
	You've got all of the amenities made in that community.
	You've got local produce of food, you've got perhaps connections with farmers, and everything's coming from an existing network in that community.
	Consumerism doesn't like that.
	So it needs to break all of that down so it can bring in cheap labour for cheap goods, keep overheads low.
	That requires a highly mobile workforce.
	That's why it suits consumerism, global corporate power, to keep us divided and conquered, because community is the opposite of divide and conquer.
	When you understand that, that's the starting point.
	When you look at it through that framework, you can then understand What perhaps drove the tension between certain communities in this country over the last couple of decades, including the tension between Muslims and everyone else during the War on Terror?
	I mean, let's not even go to the fact that it was all built upon a lie, because that's now pretty much out there in the open with Blair, and we're going to get to Blair in a second, I believe.
	Apart from all the lies it was built on, you can see just from that framework why it suits people to create the tension.
	So what we need to do, I think, and what I think is perhaps going to be a generational challenge, which I'm happy to work with you on, Russell, is try and do the opposite of what globalism is trying to do to our communities.
	And that's find points in common.
	and try and work to get communities to begin with what we share and what we have in common, rather than define ourselves by how we're different.
	There's a professor in Georgetown University called Fathallah Muqaddam, and he has a theory because a lot of people... I just got used to Majid!
	A lot of people are critical of multiculturalism because everything you just described over the last decade that's happened to our communities, yeah?
	So he's come up with this paper called Omniculturalism and what Omniculturalism is about is to say that is that let's begin by what we share, what we have in common and focus on that rather than focusing on our differences because where multiculturalism perhaps went wrong in the 90s under Blair and perhaps some of the excesses of the left is and what at the time through Quilliam and the work we were doing we faced a lot of criticism for raising this stuff but I think in hindsight people seem to be alright and that is We ended up in this country as communities growing together apart.
	We were voluntarily segregated.
	Look, I'm married to an American raised Catholic Kundalini practitioner called Rachel.
	She's not Muslim.
	She's from Tennessee, and I met her in New York, proposed to her in Paris, married her in Nashville, and we live in London, right?
	That's who I'm married to, and we've got a son.
	He's seven.
	His name's Gabriel, because in Arabic that's Jibril, and at the end of the day, you know, Muslims anyway, or we marry Jews and Christians, it's something that's been established from the beginning because they're known as Ahlul Kitab, People of the Book.
	There's a lot of potential there in terms of what Muslims have in common with Christians.
	As a starting point, for example, the majority of this country is at least nominally Christian.
	But let's not even take it from a religious lens and look at it from a cultural lens.
	Because religiously, I could talk to you a lot about Jesus and being a prophet, being a messiah, being according to the Quran, being the word of God, the spirit of God, being the messenger that we wait, the prophet of God that we wait to return as well, as in the second coming.
	All of this in doctrine Muslims share with Christians.
	But even if we don't approach it from the religious lens, yeah the virgin birth for example, even if we approach it just from the political and cultural lens, right?
	People will realize this because it's all from recent, very recent experience.
	If you take the Covid period for example, Muslim communities were among those that were in the front lines opposing all the mandates.
	And that's because Whether it's Muslims or generally minority communities including African Americans with the Tuskegee experiments, ethnic minorities have been on the receiving end of medical experimentation by the state.
	I too was jabbed against my will in an Egyptian torture facility and prison where I was held, right?
	So when the COVID mandates came along, one of the things I said on the LBC show that I had
	was, "I have been an amnesty-adopted prisoner of conscience for thought crimes when I was jailed in Egypt for five
	years, dragged through a torture dungeon, and injected against my will. So I've got something to say
	about forced injections."
	Now, Muslims and generally minority communities were in the front lines on that,
	and everybody that lived through that COVID experiment, who was also opposed to COVID mandates,
	That's point number one that you can find immediately similarity and commonality and common ground on and that is to oppose medical forced coerced medical experimentation.
	Whether you look from that to the woke kind of transgender stuff, right?
	Transitioning children Muslims again.
	were on the front lines opposed to the idea that in schools you could take children who
	were pre-puberty, put them on puberty blockers without involving the parents, without the
	consent of parents. Muslims were protesting against this stuff well before it became mainstream.
	Another area of similarity and common ground. You can move from that to excessive state
	power and the concern over civil liberties. Having lived through the war on terror, having
	been for example, my own personal experience, having been detained at Heathrow under the
	Terrorism Act section schedule 7, so Terrorism Act 2000, schedule 7, under Tony Blair as
	Prime Minister, where remaining silent still to today is a criminal offence if you're stopped
	in any port of entry or exit of the UK, airports, shipping ports, the police can stop you without
	probable cause, without suspicion, they can interrogate you and being silent, practising
	your rights, what the US calls Miranda rights, of not answering questions under schedule
	7 of the Terrorism Act 2000 is a criminal offence.
	You have to answer questions.
	When I was held under that Act, we weren't even allowed lawyers, right?
	So that's one example.
	But then, all of that's been expanded.
	In the US, it's the Patriot Act.
	In the UK, the Terrorism Act.
	It's been expanded to include things like hate crime and arresting people for tweets.
	Muslims, because of the war on terror, have been, again, on the front lines opposing all that.
	Another ground, area of common ground, right?
	So, already we can begin seeing.
	Now, in your case, and your own journey, with your, I think, conversion, you're saying you're happy with the word, so... Yes, thank you.
	Your own conversion and journey.
	Another area, traditional values, the desire for community, grounded in some form of spiritual experience, is another area that Muslims and wider society can very easily see eye-to-eye on.
	So if we approach... That's four areas we've just named, right?
	And that's not even from the religious lens.
	We're talking about doctrine and the status of Jesus Christ in Islam, and Muslims awaiting his second coming, the reverence for the...
	For Mary, the mother of Jesus, an entire chapter named after her in the Quran.
	There's so much we can go into even from the theological side.
	When you realize that, Russell, you begin thinking, bloody hell, how have they been on opposite ends of so much?
	over these years.
	And the answer there, despite everything they share in common, they meaning Muslims and everyone else, the answer is because of divide and conquer.
	There are certain vested interests that basically benefit from sowing the seeds of distrust and from exaggerating the points of difference.
	So despite me saying to you there's an entire chapter in the Quran named after Mary, And it's the most honored woman in Islam.
	I could go on and on about this.
	I'm married to a Catholic woman that went to Catholic school.
	I could go on about this and someone come along and say, yeah, but you don't believe Jesus is God.
	You don't believe Jesus is the son of God.
	So there's a way to have this conversation where we focus on the negative.
	Yeah.
	Or there's a way to have this conversation where we're like, look at everything we share, right?
	And that's where I think we've been going wrong.
	Both Muslims and everyone else.
	Not just, you know, I'm not finger pointing here.
	Yes.
	Do you think that we have generally allowed ourselves to be corralled into points of fissure and tension when through moral fortitude and spiritual fortitude we might have remained open and remained in good faith.
	But when we are dealing with centralized and censuring power such as we are, it's easy to see how online incendiary language and invective translates into incendiary action and tension on the streets.
	Now part of my question to you earlier, Majid, was like in what area would you be commending that Muslim communities were altered, amended, changed the process of integration to soften these edges which might indeed actually conversely involve More autonomy in the communities.
	Let me, if I may, extrapolate and expand on that.
	I will be saying that in the event that we were able to have a mandate, a consensus around the subject of migration, saying that if people across the United Kingdom, and I would say that the type of politics that might interest me is Whilst one admires visionary politicians that present the electorate with a purview that we might all be able to get behind, that's part of it, ultimately what excites me is the possibility of a discourse along the lines of, this is what we believe the function of migration is, and of course I agree with your assessment, it's about flooding labour markets and disempowering indigenous or native or current communities to the point where they can't negotiate.
	Everywhere.
	Everywhere.
	That would be in the United States.
	It would be everywhere.
	And what I feel like is something I often have recourse to is a statement that Gandhi made prior to the partitioning of India after the end of British rule.
	So there's no point in us kicking out the British only to emulate the systems that they hoisted upon us.
	India is a country of 70,000 villages where each should be fully autonomous and independent,
	where possible trading only where necessary, and we should be sure to maintain our cultures
	right down almost to the smallest communal level.
	Now when I've had conversations prior that I alluded to, mate, with like American conservatives for want of a better,
	I've said, "Would you like, even to Ben Shapiro, would you be on a platform say with BLM type folks,
	or proper trans activist folks, if the ultimate point was we want to be able to run our own community
	and just be left alone by the state and run our community our way?"
	And they're like, yeah, ultimately that would be a better deal.
	because I think that all of us have become compromised by the evolution and
	excesses of the nation-state and how the nation-state is graduating clearly into
	globalism without any consultation, without any election.
	We're at the point where Britain itself is being compromised and I wouldn't
	say, but this is just my particular perspective, I know people would see
	this differently, I wouldn't say that the dominant threat has been migration.
	It's clearly, and you yourself have acknowledged that it is part of the decline
	of national identity and the kind of economic and labour market impact of that
	and indeed the impact it would have on the cultural identity, but I would
	say, you know, I've I've always said, if we're talking about power, how can some of the least powerful groups be the perpetrators of your loss of power?
	It doesn't make sense.
	It can't be.
	Like, leaving their countries because of economic reasons or because of war, even if it's like the worst case scenario, and I'm talking from the perspective of, you know, sort of closed border nationalism, of like, young working age, military age, they might even say, men flooding our borders, even then I'd say, wouldn't a policy of like, you know, net zero migration have to be accompanied, and here's perhaps part of the problem, With less rampant globalist corporatism and capitalism that's unsettling and exploiting the nations either through war or corporatism that's leading to the refugee crisis and migration in the first place.
	Would it be a concomitant policy?
	You say we're not going to have no more migration, but neither are we going to be plundering over there,
	neither are we going to be supporting and sponsoring wars over there,
	neither are we going to be displacing populations over there.
	And as for the various cultural groups that live in Britain now,
	'cause we're not turning back the clock and we're not booting people out,
	we're going to have to come to an agreement where we decentralize power as much as possible,
	to your point, so that communities feel that we are as much as possible in charge of our own food,
	we're as much as possible in charge of our own governance, and as much as possible committed
	to a truly representative discourse when it comes to the running of our communities,
	which by the way, due to the miracle of technology, would be possible now.
	There've been various experiments, I'm sure you're familiar with them,
	where budgets are allocated immediately through after taxation to communities,
	so at the smallest manageable unit, people can decide what they want to spend
	on hospitals, roads, municipality.
	What this would truly do, if you ask me, is you would start opposing global capitalism,
	you'd start saying we don't want Thames water owned by companies in Hong Kong and China and Canada
	dumping sewage into the Thames.
	These municipalities should be community-managed assets.
	Of course, in order to implement something like that, you'd need a massive populist mandate.
	And in order to achieve such a thing, you'd have to take on globalism head-on straight away.
	And you'd have to start with a truce.
	I would say one of the main sort of conflagrations, certainly on the basis of what we've seen in the last six months or whatever, is the problems on actual streets.
	Between Muslim communities and largely white British people, who are being sort of called racist and criminalized, and to your point about extremism, no doubt!
	Like, same as you're presumably saying within Muslim communities, there's people pushing it extreme, you'd say the same thing in white indigenous communities.
	And what I suppose ultimately we want to achieve, in much the same manner you've said between Islam and Christianity, is to look at what our points of... the points where we can coalesce and unite are, and then surely what we would have is something approaching a force that could oppose globalism.
	The only way to oppose globalism indeed is going to be through mass protest, mass disobedience, mass non-compliance, and a previously inconceivable degree of unity that could only be brought on by the kind of crisis that
	are currently being utilised to double down on authoritarianism.
	We're going to have to bang people up for tweets now because they're rioting in the
	streets and setting on fire migrant hotels.
	So if people are racist or whatever online, they're getting lumpy little jail sentences
	out of it.
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	And the way through this, because you've touched on the idea of like, even those who want to stop migration have to recognize that a lot of the migration patterns are coming from countries that we've invaded, right?
	So the way through this, because look, Afghanistan and migration, Iraq and migration, Syria and migration, Yemen and migration, these are all countries where there's been wars that we've either directly been involved in, in the case of the first of those three, four, and then the last one, Yemen, where we've been indirectly involved by Saudi Arabia.
	So, at the end of the day, this requires honest conversation.
	Yeah.
	And part of the problem today is on all sides, conversation has stopped being honest.
	And one of the reasons is because conversation is increasingly being censured and censored.
	So, we're not able to have honest conversation and where we try and have honest conversation, we're cancelled.
	We're basically booted off the airwaves.
	We're shadow banned.
	We are marginalized.
	We are called all manner of pejorative insults like conspiracy theorists.
	So, to even speak about globalism is a bit easier now than it was even three years ago when I got kicked off LBC, right?
	To speak, for example, now, as we just discussed, Russell, it's no longer controversial to talk about the heart vaccine harms.
	It's just within the space of the last two, three years, right?
	It's no longer controversial to oppose all COVID mandates.
	It's no longer controversial to talk about Hunter Biden's laptop.
	I was on air when Twitter banned the entire account of the New York Post for posting that story and yet raised it on LBC and interviewed a New York Post columnist.
	Well, the comments editor.
	And so you can see my trajectory to being kicked off because honest conversation is anathema to those globalist powers.
	Because you can't build strong communities without having that honest conversation that binds us.
	So one of the things they need to come up against is honest conversation.
	And this idea of cancel culture, which I think you've experienced a bit of...
	No, no, I've been having a nice time.
	It's just been bright and breezy.
	Well, it brings me nicely to I think, I think where we are, if you look at the online culture now versus what people used to call mainstream media, but I call corporatist media, because I don't think it's that mainstream anymore, to be honest.
	And if we look at where we are, we've ended up with, I think we've co-created as a society, two very different realities.
	And there's the online reality, and there's the corporatist controlled reality of so-called mainstream.
	And if you're in that bubble, of the corporatist bubble, you can watch the very same event like the Kamala Harris-Trump debate recently, and you can come out entirely convinced that Kamala won and Trump lost.
	Well Harris won and Trump lost if you're on the online bubble
	You can watch exactly the same thing and come out and say that was three against one and Trump still beat them
	Right because it was the ABC broadcasters and Kamala Harris against Trump
	It was stacked against him and he still came out strong the very same reality can be interpreted in polar opposite
	Perspectives because people are living in very very different worlds. One is the
	post cancellation online alternative space hmm, and the other is pre cancellation still going kind of
	corporatist media space that you and I used to both be involved as
	And the funny thing is, for the last few years, it feels like they've been going in opposite directions, almost like a fork, right?
	People that opposed the Covid mandates, that opposed the war in Ukraine, that opposed or exposed the Hunter Biden laptop story and all the other censored news ended up in one space and they generally tend to be people that are anti-establishment, anti-globalist.
	It doesn't matter too much if they're openly pro-Trump, but they certainly feel that Trump was discriminated against.
	I mean, one of the things the Observer, which is our Sunday Guardian, when they wrote the article about my being cancelled,
	they put "Conspiracy theorist raises alarm" as a headline on coronavirus and US elections.
	Because at the time in 2020, I was trying to raise the alarm
	about what I felt was interference in the US elections against Trump.
	And I don't believe you have to be a supporter of Trump To raise that alarm.
	But that's one reality.
	And then there's this other parallel reality where people think, genuinely think, we're mad for having those, like, we're insane, actually insane, for believing that the elections were interfered with, that Trump's being kind of discriminated against a bit, which I believe very thoroughly, having looked into it the way I do, that he has been, um, elections were, there's a Time magazine article About a cabal that interfered in the elections and fixed it against Trump.
	I mean, people can look it up.
	The shadow history of the 2020 election campaign, it's called.
	And they're boasting about it.
	But people think we're insane for saying that.
	Meanwhile, we're looking at people still stuck in the corporatist media world and thinking, how are they not woken up yet?
	How are they still claiming, like the mayor of New York, that they suddenly were tested positive for COVID?
	Who the bloody hell is still testing for COVID?
	They think we're mad and we think they're mad.
	What I think we need is, and that's been done deliberately, again, so that we're talking cross purposes.
	We're no longer talking the same language.
	In the end, that's a recipe for civil war, right?
	Which suits globalists because it goes back to divide and conquer.
	The fault lines in our society isn't just Muslims against others.
	It's alternative media against traditional kind of corporatist media.
	It's in Northern Ireland Catholics and Protestants.
	There are many fault lines, but the globalists benefit from exploiting all of them.
	It just happens to be that a headline one at the moment is Muslims and others, right?
	It must be true, because otherwise why would you have seen this bizarre inversion of principles in American politics between the left and the right?
	That the left is now pro-censorship, that the left is anti-free speech, that the left is pro-war.
	What's happening is there was no anchor of virtue, merely facilitation and expedience for the way the culture was operating at that time.
	What do we need to say at this point to maintain power?
	These things!
	Well, we'll say those things then.
	Yeah, that's it.
	A few things I want to pick up on.
	Like, see, like, you would have to agree that in a country like Britain, with its colonialist past and the legacy of that, that there is a tension that exists that warrants a degree of compassion when it comes to the subject of migration.
	Almost a duty.
	It don't seem right that the people that suffer most of that are the Sort of working-class people that are just fodder in the same way that countries that are colonized and subject to imperialism were fodder.
	They just sort of moved on, found new markets, found new commodity.
	And the same in the United States of America, for its rather more corporatized colonization of the world.
	Somewhat more insidious, not so plain, not planting flags but planting logos.
	I wonder though, with the recent disturbances in Ireland, mate, I like, because I was talking about that when it happened, of course, and I was like, it's weird because Ireland don't have a colonial history, and when Ireland has social disturbances as a result of a migration crisis, and it was obvious that those, whilst them riots, people were way off To say that it would be an undocumented migrant and all that, it's almost like the the tinderbox was so ready to go, people are so agitated and I don't reckon it's a coincidence that it was just after the election when Keir Starmer sort of marches to power with 30% of the of the voting public but it's still a landslide and all of us know in our heart hearts this is a slide to WEF style globalism.
	This is not a Labour Party that's interested in representing working people.
	This is like the kind of political movement like say Justin Trudeau, Macron, Yeah, he's a Blairite.
	Yeah, he's a Blairite.
	Yeah, essentially Blair is a globalist and is one of, almost one of the elders of globalism now.
	How do you, how do you yourself, I wonder, unpack the social disturbances, riots and tension between, in Ireland?
	I guess it's a little simple, is it?
	It's more simple because Ireland Has been colonized by again by the British of course and has been subject to being a subjugated power.
	How does that, what does that reveal about the problems incumbent within migration when they don't have the same sort of debt or sort of duty that you could say well bloody hell America's caused all these wars, Britain's caused all this grief.
	Gotta take it on a chin when it comes to... The thing is, those problems are natural.
	So yes, in the case of mainland UK, there is the historical kind of guilt, yeah?
	But wherever these mass migration patterns take place, and whether it's in the East or the West, natural tensions will eventually arise because they're competing over the same markets for the same housing, for the same jobs, for the same places in schools.
	Natural tensions will arise.
	But again, back to globalists benefiting from exploiting all and every fault line, That's another example there, because the same powers that want to encourage open borders and mass migration will then exploit the division that occurs from it.
	Why?
	Because what's the dialectic there?
	Tension leads to riots and violence.
	Violence and riots lead to public pressure for more security.
	More security means harsher legislation, which means more control for the state again.
	And it's that never-ending cycle.
	Even these recent UK riots we just came through, right?
	Keir Starmer immediately, the very next day, which you probably remember, Russell, came out and said, right, we're going to basically start clamping down on posts online and all this online hate.
	The state of our law at the moment, which Americans may or may not understand, but we should lay it out for them.
	Our hate speech legislation.
	If you said something to me on this show, like, there's a point I do want to get, you asked me a question earlier, which I do want to answer, by the way, about what could Muslims be doing to address extremism.
	That'd be good, that.
	If I, if I, if I, you asked me that question, if the current state of British law is, if a third party watching this show took offence at you asking me what could Muslims do to address extremism, right?
	If they took offence on my behalf and said that your question was offensive, That third party can complain to police under our current state of hate crime laws, and you could get done for hate speech.
	Because a third party is taking offence.
	Even if I'm here chilling with you, right?
	The state of our legislation at the moment is, hate speech isn't just what I think you said to me, but what a third party thinks I may have found offensive.
	And that's how all these people are getting arrested.
	Because it's so amorphous at the moment.
	But again, how does that benefit corporatism?
	Because again, it's more power to the state.
	And whenever a piece of legislation is that wide open, there is only one way to implement it, and that is inconsistently.
	Because if law can be applied to every given scenario, then by definition, it will only selectively be applied.
	Because it can be applied to everything, right?
	So then it's a political decision when to apply it.
	Excellent.
	And then you have the people in power, their politics, Keir Starmer, gets to define when to implement hate speech.
	And that's where it's become politicized.
	We've got such a wide, our legislation is so wide, every tension, whether it's the stuff, the migration in Northern Ireland, which yep, or here in the mainland, or across Europe.
	All of these tensions, Muslims and wider communities, but not just Muslims as we're saying earlier, but the tensions that exist across society.
	At the moment, elderly and young kind of, you know, with the Labour Party cancelling the whole kind of winter fuel allowance.
	All of these tensions, the elderly with the midazolam story that during the Covid period, where the elderly and all evidence points to the fact that we've got peer-reviewed statistical research done by Dr Wilson Tsai, that the elderly during COVID were basically given midazolam and their deaths were deliberately sped up by the state to get rid of them because they were a burden on the state.
	These are all points of tension and fissure, you know, basically fault lines in society.
	The state benefits from all of this, right?
	So what we got to again come back to is how do we pull back from this kind of, it feels like this kind of octopus that is using every opportunity to only gain more and more power for itself while we're stuck fighting each other.
	And I think the answer there, first of all, comes back to that values point that we have to first discover what we stand for.
	And it's why I think your spiritual journey is very important in that regard.
	Because if we first stand for something, we can then call others towards a certain set of values that we all share in common.
	And free speech is a key one on that note.
	Because ubiquitous criminalization requires almost a kind of ubiquitous virtue as a response.
	It's like that we have to become virtuous and in a sense the kind of spiritual values that creates We've talked about consumerism, commodification, a lot, and when a component of this corporatism is that our only value and our core identity is on the basis of how we consume and how we interface with corporatism, that we're losing any identity other than our individual identity.
	And if you have become your own deity, if you are your own internal Pamphian, worshipping your aspects of your own psyche, with no higher or ulterior God that is guiding your principles, guiding your practices, then the state is free to be God, free to tell you, this is our new credo, we believe in this, we don't believe in that.
	And I love your point about the sort of broad, diffuse criminalisation of speech that can be legislated for generally and deployed specifically.
	And that's why that's weaponization.
	It's why the law is deliberately open like that, whether it's the terrorism legislation, the hate crime laws causing offense.
	It's why it's so broad, because it can, when something covers everything, it can only be deployed in specific circumstances.
	It can't be applied normally because it covers everything.
	All employers in Ireland, in the wake of their social disturbances, were like, hold on a minute, you could do that.
	That means anything.
	We can take people's phones.
	And their answer would be, yeah, we know it can mean anything, but we decide what that thing is.
	It's not yet before.
	And that's what's happening.
	It's like no one now, I think we're in a state, to your point about the two diffuse, the dichotomy of these worlds.
	Now, the world I live in, no one trusts the judiciary.
	No one trusts the media.
	No one trusts the establishment.
	And like you were saying, you indicated as your very personal and particularly sounds pretty harrowing and amazing background would make you take a particular stance against the Japs.
	My position was like, don't tell me what to do.
	I don't trust authority.
	My first reaction to authority is not, oh, here's that thing that looks after me.
	It's like, I don't trust them.
	I don't trust them.
	I don't trust them.
	I didn't trust them 10, 15 years ago when they were telling me, I hate all Muslims and they're all terrorists and all that kind of stuff.
	And now that the tensions and the dynamics have changed and the reporting is ordered, I'm still cynical and suspicious about what they're doing.
	But I do know that the solution has to be some kind of congeniality.
	And I wish you would answer that question, even though I'm scared of the question now.
	So one of the reasons you're suspicious of authority is naturally where you're from, right?
	You're from Essex, you're not from Kensington, right?
	And I think there's a different upbringing there.
	And I think, so those two spheres that we mentioned earlier, so one of the projects I'm trying to do and be involved in, in fact the next big project I'm working on, is to try and bridge those two audiences, the online and the so-called kind of corporatist media worlds, the kind of way in which conversations are forked, where they're not really, they're talking cross-purposes.
	So I'm working on a project as a show called Cancelled that seeks to address Those that kind of have been cancelled or there's an effort to cancel their voices or to suffocate their voices and try and have that show back on a corporate platform But with the conversations that we've been having over the last four years in the online space to try and bridge that again
	Yeah, and you could almost show, I suppose, the teleology of issues like COVID in particular.
	You were saying this stuff was, now look at where we are.
	What are you saying about myocarditis now?
	What are you saying about lockdown now?
	What are you saying about six feet now, masks?
	Somebody's got to try and bridge those two audiences.
	So that's what I'm working on next.
	I mean, when there's time, you're more than welcome to sit down with me on that.
	Hopefully the plans come to fruition.
	But I think there is a real serious need to bridge those audiences.
	And this conversation around Muslims and what Muslims could also be doing is important.
	Will it answer my racist questions?
	I'm doing it right now.
	This is the answer.
	It wasn't racist, I didn't think.
	It was actually a prayer for peace.
	Another bridge is that one, right?
	So we've come through a whole period of the war on terror era where ISIS was a problem, Al-Qaeda were a problem, other such groups.
	There was a tendency within our communities to seek to impose any given version of Islam over society, right?
	isn't a majority desire, but there was an organized group within our communities that
	ended up in its worst case manifesting as ISIS. So where we identify or are able to
	identify that tendency, it needs to be dealt with, it needs to be addressed, it needs to
	be challenged. But that again brings us back to honest conversation, where we may not be
	having honest conversations on grooming gangs, on kind of Al-Qaeda/ISIS-based extremism.
	Where we may not be having honest conversations on that stuff, wider society also needs to start having honest conversations on, for example, the global Mossad VIP pedophile ring that was run by Epstein.
	Because it's not just grooming gangs.
	That was the world's largest grooming gang.
	That even our Prince Andrew was involved in.
	They had their own island!
	Precisely!
	They weren't doing it in a chicken shop!
	Right, so a bridge that kind of brings together those worlds that aren't mixing at the moment is what I'm all about.
	As I said, I'd be more than happy to continue working with you on that in conclusion, because I know we're running out of time.
	But yeah, so as I said, looking forward to this show cancelled.
	There's extremism in these communities.
	I felt it actually around 9-11 and the subsequent tensions that grew out of that, not to mention the mad, giddy and unjust wars that have caused yet more extremism and yet more pain and yet more suffering that goes on to this very day.
	How come we're letting the polarizing voices dominate the discourse?
	Precisely.
	Alright mate, thanks.
	That was a good conversation.
	We'll have to have more conversations.
	Didn't press a single button.
	Didn't get to do none of the stuff.
	We didn't get to Tony Blair.
	Didn't get to Tony Blair.
	Good.
	He's had enough air time.
	Thanks, mate.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation between me and Majid Nawaz.
	Let me know in the comments and the chat exactly what you thought of it.
	Remember, we will be back next week, not with more of the same, but with more of the different.
	Until then, if you can, stay free.
	Man, he's switching.

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