Russell chats to Calley Means, a Coca-cola whistleblower and activist, who exposes corruption in Big Food & Big Pharma. Calley takes us into the inner workings of the food and pharmaceutical industries to uncover the corruption that often goes unnoticed, from the new obesity drug Ozempic, to the use of fear to weaponise the industry. Calley also shares his solutions to help our health and wellbeing.Calley Means is the founder of True Med - https://www.truemed.com/See Calley at Community - https://www.russellbrand.com/community/ WATCH THE FULL INTERVIEW: https://rumble.com/v2fmncu-were-being-poisoned-big-pharmas-dirty-secret-103-stay-free-with-russell-bra.html For a bit more from us join our Stay Free Community here:https://russellbrand.locals.com/NEW MERCH! https://stuff.russellbrand.com/
Wherever you're watching, the whole show will only be available on Rumble.
It's Friday, which is the best day of the week because we, every Friday, have an in-depth conversation with free thinkers, radicals, disruptors, campaigners and philosophers.
Today, I'll be speaking with Callie Means, a whistleblower and activist who exposes corruption in big food and pharma.
When we had him on the show before, Just for a guess, for 20 minutes our video went viral and I couldn't personally believe the depth of depravity, corruption and hypocrisy within Big Food.
Those of you that are watching us live, hit us up in the comments, particularly on locals.
We want to hear your comments and questions and let me know what you think I should be asking Callie.
Last time he told us about how a BCE drugs are being irresponsibly marketed that might likely forge lifelong dependency, that that's part of their appeal and part of what they're explicitly marketing.
Today he'll be talking to us about using the use of fear to weaponize the pharmaceutical industry, the rigged system of mental health, and once we click over to being exclusively on Rumble, I'm going to be talking to Calli about a story that I can't even begin to describe to you.
It's so Obscure, corrupt, and unusual.
I can only talk about it on Rumble.
I don't even want to bring up the subject on YouTube because I can't even personally make sense of it.
And I'm going to let Callie Means handle the potential legislative fallout by explaining it himself.
And I'll simply say, well, I don't know.
This guy claims to be an expert.
Please, let's welcome to the show Callie Means.
Thanks for joining us again, Callie.
It's so great to be here, Russell, and see you after your domination of America, which was awesome to watch.
Thank you.
I'm very excited that you and your sister are going to join us at our community event in July in Hay-on-Wye.
You spoke about her last time and said that she's a great inspiration to you and an incredible influence on your career.
Two of you, in essence, are now sort of anti-big food campaigners.
Can you tell us a little bit about how that's come about?
Yeah, so we grew up in D.C., and I'm actually back in D.C.
I just met with members of Congress, which is why I'm a little overdressed.
But we grew up good, young conservatives, you know, trusting the medical system, saying how great the American food system was.
And, you know, I went into politics.
My sister was the pride of the family.
You know, she did the right thing.
She was president of her Stanford class, an undergrad.
She was top of her class, Stanford Med School.
And then she was a surgeon, you know, an absolutely crushing residency.
She had an out-of-body experience.
She was looking over a patient six years into residency, and she's a head and neck surgeon, cutting open their sinuses.
And she realized that patient was under her knife six months before.
And she realized that she had no idea why that patient had this recurring inflammation.
And she actually, as one of the most credentialed, educated, accomplished surgeons in the country, did not know why the patients under her knife were sick.
And tying that back, Stanford Med School, Harvard Med School, top med schools in this country, more than 50% of their money touches pharma somehow.
And what does that get them?
90% of doctors today graduate in America without one, a single nutrition class.
Casey graduated from Stanford Med School without learning one nutrition class.
Over 80% of her curriculum was in pharmacology.
And she did a very brave thing and she abruptly quit.
And where it ties to me, Russell, is we had a pretty common experience.
Our mom was our best friend, our hero.
And in 2021, she was taking a hike with my dad and had a pain in her stomach.
She went in to the doctor and she realized she had stage 4 pancreatic cancer.
We rushed to her side and she died 13 days later.
And the doctors at Stanford Hospital told us how unlucky this pancreatic cancer is.
You know, people are getting cancer at increasing rates, autoimmune conditions, dementia.
It's all going up and it's all unlucky.
And what we did was we unspooled pancreatic cancer.
It's highly tied to prediabetes.
My mom was one of 50% of Americans who has prediabetes or diabetes.
It's highly correlated, many forms of cancer.
Dementia, Alzheimer's is now called type 3 diabetes.
And what my sister and I are really on the warpath is this simple thesis, which is that we're being lied to.
Um, what's happening, um, where, you know, 15% of kids have fatty liver disease, 25% of kids have prediabetes or diabetes, you know, we're being brought to our knees by these sicknesses and mental, you know, and you can't say that what's going on with our body isn't going on in our brains.
And it's so complicated.
Everything's complicated.
When my sister graduated med school, there was 42 medical specialties she could go into.
The body's broken into 42 parts.
There's one issue.
There's one issue above all other, and we're feeding ourselves poison.
Our kids are not being—kids are born where they want to move.
They're being put on desks without sun.
These are simple metabolic things where we're biologically just destroying ourselves, and we're really on the warpath to try to simplify how we think about science, because as we're talking about, it's due to a very rigged system.
We're confused due to a rigged system.
When you say something like we're being poisoned Callie, that sounds incredibly incendiary.
Sorry, I should pass on my sympathies about the story about your mother's pretty disturbing and stuff.
But I wanted to say that that's a very provocative thing to say.
Now I know that big Big food spend a lot of money on lobbying and it appears that the relationship between big food and big pharma is a mutually beneficial one.
That the kind of food that we're eating is making us sick.
But I don't want to be hysterical or reductive, maybe too late for that now, because I'd like to be reassured Kelly, that you have plain evidence that we're eating food that is bad for us, that is causing us diseases that are preventable, that there are substances in our food.
In fact, there is an overview around the type of diet that we should have that's irresponsible and it requires re-evaluation.
I know that this is your life's work, and in a sense, given your relationship with your sister, part of your family's But can you explain to me, using actual examples, how there is a kind of large-scale poisoning of the American people that's leading to preventable illnesses and death?
Yeah, I think it's really important.
Let me dive into specifics.
Let me paint it this way.
I'm also a new dad, and that's highly motivating to me.
And let's just look at the pure economics of a sick child, okay?
So, let's think about a 15-year-old, lower-income child, okay?
And the dirty secret, and just from purely financially speaking, that child in America is an absolute goldmine, because that child probably has prediabetes, which is from ultra-processed food, probably has obesity, probably has high cholesterol, probably has high blood pressure.
This is very common, right?
15% of kids right now have fatty liver disease, which used to be only a disease you saw in elderly alcoholics.
So that kid, right?
And the U.S.
is on Medicaid.
And Medicaid pays out.
The budget is greater than the Defense Department.
This is the healthcare for lower-income folks.
And a sick kid with chronic conditions, what does that mean?
The kid's not going to die, but for the rest of their life, they need a statin for their cholesterol.
They need metformin and insulin for their diabetes.
They need, inevitably, Adderall, which 15% of kids are, for their ADHD.
They need Ambien because they're going to have sleep problems from all these issues.
They're going to need opioids because they're going to be in chronic pain.
They're going to inevitably have fertility issues.
Male sperm counts down 50%, so they're going to need medication for that.
They're inevitably going to have erectile dysfunction, which is just constrainment of the blood vessels, which is basically the same thing as heart disease.
They're going to be on all these pills, right?
And the medical system looks at that.
Oh, we're treating that person, right?
What's bankrupting the United States right now, far greater than defense, far greater than any other line item, Is these people that get sick early, and they're treated, okay?
So the medical system looks at that, and says, you know, that kid is going to go to six different doctors.
As I said, my sister, she didn't learn about the overall metabolic health, about how ultra-processed food hurts our cells, and shows up in all of those symptoms.
She was a head and neck surgeon.
She was going to devote her entire life to one square millimeter of the body.
One square millimeter, which she was going to do a fellowship in, and that's all she was going to focus on.
That's how you rise up in medicine.
You segment the body.
So this is very profitable.
That child who's going to have a ton of comorbidities is very profitable.
And there's a lot of incentives to make this complicated.
There's a lot of incentives to send that kid to six different doctors, to a psychologist for that SSRI, to a neurologist for the ADHD medication, for the cardiologist for the heart disease.
These are all the same thing.
These are all the same thing.
So are the doctors evil who are prescribing that statin?
No, that's the system they're in.
Although doctors are catching on to this.
Doctors have the highest suicide rate and the highest burnout rate of any profession in the country.
So I think they're getting in for the right reasons, but realizing patients aren't getting better.
And yes, on the food company, I think what food's doing is understandable.
You know, food is trying to make food cheaper and more addictive.
And there's three main ingredients that we've shifted our diet to.
It's sugar, which is 100x 100X more sugar we're eating than 100 years ago.
Processed sugar, added sugar, really wasn't a thing 100 years ago.
That's a staple of our diet.
Highly processed grains, which didn't exist until 1900, which is where you take the fiber off, it's shelf-stable, no nutrition, and then because the fiber's out, it's a glucose bomb.
And then, this is important, seed oils.
Seed oils are the top source of American fat right now.
These were created by John Rockefeller in the early 1900s as an industrial byproduct from oil production.
Not joking.
Our main source of fat, when you look at the label, canola oil, soybean oil, this is an industrial byproduct that's much cheaper than good fats like olive oil, avocado oil, ghee, grass-fed butter, things like that.
That's the staple of our diet.
So this isn't a big mystery.
We're eating inflammatory things.
We're putting into our body, you know, everything is tied to inflammation.
As I talked to my sister, she's looking at that patient with inflammation.
Inflammation usually was a good thing.
It's the body coming to foreign things in the body.
The problem in America right now is that 75% of our diet is ultra-processed fake food, which we were not biologically made to eat.
Our body is reacting to foreign substances and causing all this disease.
If you took out those three ingredients, sugar, seed oils, and highly processed grains, This is not hyperbolic.
You would not have heart disease, which is the number one killer.
You would not have type 2 diabetes.
You would actually eliminate, to a large degree, Alzheimer's, which is now called type 3 diabetes.
Many forms of cancer, infertility, all of these things relate to food, but there's profit, Russell, in complicating the issue.
Bloody hell!
That's pretty heavy.
I was thinking then, Callie, about how like in sort of pre-civilised, as they were known, human cultures, we would totemise the plants that we required in order to survive, or the animals that we hunted in order to survive.
They would be Sacred and divine, and we would have an explicitly sacred, if such a thing is possible, relationship with them.
We would worship and revere them.
Now that we live in these vast monocultures, where animals are slaughtered en masse, where crops are grown en masse and highly processed, we have become like the food that we eat.
We are what we eat.
We are a product.
When you sort of spoke about that, you know, a 15 year old child is a sickly gold mine that could be latched onto, lashed up and profited from.
I can see how we are being farmed, how we have become a type of commodity And to hear that just with the removal of those three things, sugar, seed oil and highly processed grain, we could meaningfully alter the health of our populations.
It seems to me that this is the type of legislation that should be immediately passed.
That our farming practices ought to change immediately.
That if government is good for anything, good for that. But because what you're describing is so
radical, Kali, and because today you're meeting with people in Congress, and obviously I wouldn't
expect you to tell me anything that's private, what concerns me is that what we tend to
accept are minor reforms, small victories, when what's clearly required here is a
revolution. Those kind of interests with that kind of lobbying money, they're not going to go
without a fight. That's serious power.
You're saying that they spend more money than the defence industry, they're more profitable
than the defence industry. Am I fudging that? If so, that's a very powerful interest to
go up against. How are we going to do it? What the hell are you doing in Congress? And
in your view, what kind of legislation should be passed to alter this terrible, deadly trajectory?
No, you're absolutely right about that stat, Russell, and shockingly, and this is just, I can't even wrap my head around, healthcare is the largest and the fastest growing industry in the United States, producing worse outcomes.
Usually innovation, you know, I'm an entrepreneur in tech, usually innovation is lower cost, better outcomes.
Healthcare is higher cost, worst outcomes.
And it's growing again, faster than any other industry.
I think we gloss our eyes over at the rate of healthcare costs in the US
and the stats are set a lot, but it's gonna be 40% of GDP in 15 years
and this is not slowing down.
It truly is gonna bankrupt our country and we're becoming a non-competitive
infertile fat civilization.
I mean, that is literally happening.
So let's get down to the brass tacks.
I think you make a great point.
And my two points are this.
There's definitely systemic issues, and let's talk about that right now.
And then I think your viewers, and it's just amazing, a huge diversity of people are waking up and taking more personal empowerment, because it's got to be a bottom-up revolution.
But I want to make some points on the top down, because I think this is really important.
A lot of people throw up their hands and say, well, it's hard to diet.
It's hard to exercise.
No, no, no, no.
Twenty-five percent of kids having prediabetes right now is hard.
Forty-five percent of kids being overweight or obese is hard.
Ninety-three percent of Americans having metabolic dysfunction right now.
This is hard.
We are destroying our country due to metabolic dysfunction, and there's actually very simple things we can do.
So number one, We need to realize that we are playing into the game.
And I actually met with a bunch of Republicans today.
And if you remember, the Republicans under Trump had an opportunity to put a proposal down to reform Obamacare, and they had nothing.
The reality right now is that the left and the right is basically just talking about marginal improvements to the existing broken system.
You are absolutely right.
Everyone needs, and I will say, politicians I think are waking up to this.
It's not about slightly altering Medicare Part D. It's not about going into page 300 in the Medicaid law.
It is understanding that the problem with healthcare is that every single lever that touches our health profits off people being sick and loses money when they're healthy.
The problem is, healthcare is the most employed industry in the country, and everyone from a pharma company to a hospital to a medical school, they make more money when more people are sick, which is exactly what's happening.
Even insurance companies, which people think should want to save money, actually now, they can only take a 15% profit margin, and by law, in Obamacare, can actually raise premiums to get that 15%.
So they actually, since they're capped at 15%, want costs to grow, which is exactly what's happened in the past decade.
All that's happened is people get sicker, costs grow, and insurance company revenues go up.
So we have to realize that one fact, and it's interesting.
A lot of members of Congress care about this issue.
A lot of them want to go up against their lobbyists, but actually they don't even understand the simple fact.
The problem is that incentive.
So what can you do right now?
A couple quick things, Russell.
The most shameful policy in America, in my opinion, the most shining example of corporate cronyism, really evil towards kids, is the fact that the USDA, the most influential health organization and food organization in the country, and probably the world, They recommend 10% added sugar for two-year-olds and up.
They, in the USDA Federal Nutrition Guidelines, guide up to 10% added sugar for an American two years and up.
To me, this is absolutely shameful.
Sugar is a highly addictive drug.
you know, there's big differences between stronger drugs like heroin,
but when you do brain imaging scans, the dopamine release is very similar
to any other drug like that.
And we're normalizing that, and the government is actually saying
it's okay for two-year-olds, 10% of their diet to be added sugar.
That could be changed tomorrow.
But why is it that way?
95% of the folks in 2020 who made the nutritional guidelines
had a conflict of interest directly paid by food and/or pharma companies.
And now in 2025, in the administration, for President Biden on the U.S.
updated nutrition guidelines, Dr. Fatima Stanford, who you've talked about, the Harvard obesity doctor who said obesity is genetic and not the result of food.
You can't make this up, but she is literally on the nutrition guidelines, making guidelines not only for the U.S., but that impacts the world, saying sugar, inevitably she will not reduce the sugar.
So the key point here, Russell, is that for better or worse, Americans listen to medical authorities.
You know, when the Surgeon General in the 1980s said smoking was bad, you know, many years too late, smoking plummeted.
You know, Philip Morris at the time was one of the five largest companies in the world when that Surgeon General's report came out.
You know, in the 1990s, we remember the food pyramid which said, you know, eat more carbs, Carb consumption went up 20% in America.
That was disastrous.
And then for better or worse, when Dr. Fauci told Americans to get the vaccine, I think it's close to 90% of people got one of the vaccines.
People listen to what authorities say for better or worse.
There should be no guidance for sugar.
We do not guide kids that they should have a certain range of cigarettes or alcohol.
The only difference is that sugar... I mean, am I in a bizarre world?
Are we not being brought to our knees by metabolic dysfunction caused chiefly by sugar?
I don't think anyone even disagrees with that.
So, why the hell are we recommending that?
And we can go into others, Russell.
Just one other thing I'd say, getting to the food stamp issue and Coke, when I worked for them.
There is a systematic, like the cigarette companies, just a systematic rigging of the institution of trust.
Coke and processed food companies spend 11 times more nutritional research than the NIH.
In the past two years, there was 50,000 nutrition studies done, peer-reviewed nutrition studies.
Again, meeting with members of Congress today.
They have lobbies in their office every single day handing them a different study.
The only goal of the studies is to confuse the congressmen.
And I'll just close with this one point here.
The policy solution is just to eliminate all nutrition studies.
We are the only animal in the world that has systematic obesity, that has systematic depression, that has systematic diabetes, obesity, other metabolic issues.
You don't have lions and giraffes in the wild dealing with systematic depression, systematic obesity.
The only other animals besides us are ones we've domesticated.
A wolf in the wild, right, or some kind of A derivative of a dog in the wild has 0% obesity rate, close to 0% cancer rate.
Domesticated dogs, which eat our own crap and the processed crap we make, have more than a 50% cancer rate.
Okay?
There's no animals except us.
And the only difference between us and other animals is we have experts telling kids to sit in desks all day in sunless rooms not moving when they're made to move, you know, learning from the teacher.
And eating processed crap.
So I think there's going to be investigations into the research and the rigging of the Institution of Trust.
And I know we're going to talk about Ozempic.
This is a pretty big deal because it's going to double the American Medicaid drug budget.
We cannot talk about a Zempik until we're exclusively on Rumble.
We got some good news there, so we'll wait for Rumble.
We will have to.
So if you're watching this on YouTube now, there's a link in the description.
You have to click over to watch this on Rumble because their commitment to free speech means that we can discuss Anti-establishment, anti-corporate interest that simply cannot be discussed on YouTube.
I was just thinking when you were speaking, Callie, that during the pandemic, I remember that Joe Rogan got into trouble for sort of saying, we should be exercising and eating well and...
That was treated as a sort of a controversial statement and I'm thinking too of Terence McKenna's famous edict that the culture is not your friend and I think that listening to you is a I've never really heard it so clearly demonstrated that The culture is set up to keep you distracted, keep you fed on bad food, governed by bad interests, consuming bad products and bad ideas continually, making you feel disenfranchised, lazy, lethargic, frankly sick.
We're being made to physically sick by the food that we eat.
When you said that thing about sugar, that an awakened and conscious government, an awakened and conscious system, would say, "Listen,
we didn't know before, but we know now we shouldn't eat sugar, and I know you all
love it, you poor bastards, because it's delicious and fantastic, and you're addicted
to it now, but we're going to have to say you shouldn't be eating it, and for... I'm
not talking about banning it, because I guess people are free, but certainly it should be
made plain that you ought not be eating these foods." You certainly shouldn't have health
bodies recommending certain amounts.
And like you said, Pat, the way that this is perpetuated is because financial interests,
in this case from Big Food, are able to...
Create the framing and flood the space with studies that they pay for, that obfuscate and confuse the reality, so that, you know, someone like- I consider myself to be a relatively smart, switched-on person.
I still eat processed sugar.
I literally put sugar in my tea and stuff.
I let my kids eat chocolate, you know, like I- all day long, though, so that, you know, I- Use it to palliate them and calm them, and I know that it's wrong, and I guess now at least I can, you know, as an individually free person, start to feed my children and myself differently, and I supposedly, you know, continue to do what you're doing to convey this type of messaging openly, so at least people know that they've got the information.
Yeah, Russell, just looking at the sign behind you, stay free, and I think that's the key thing.
Freedom is great, and I'm a libertarian.
I think we should not be banning cigarettes, not be banning alcohol, not be banning marijuana, not be banning sugar.
But it's anti-freedom.
It's just complete and utter rigging of the system and corruption.
To be paying, and if you add it up, the food stamps and the other government programs, school lunches, it's over a hundred billion dollars literally signing the bill for our own societal, truly societal destruction.
And we are becoming a non-competitive society.
Male sperm count is down 50% in a generation.
Female and personal PCOS is skyrocketing.
It's at 25% by some estimates of women.
Our bodies, our core evolutionary functions are systematically breaking down and And it's very, very serious.
Look at a public space in America where 80% of people are overweight or obese.
I mean, this is not marginal.
And again, have a candy bar.
Put sugar in your tea.
I'm like anyone else.
That shouldn't be subsidized, and we should treat it.
You know, I enjoy a beer once in a while, but treating that as some normal thing that we should... I mean, we have become gluttons.
Like, look at a store.
Look at a supermarket.
Every single... I've actually done audits of this.
If you go to a gas station or you go to where you buy food, every single item in eyesight He has two, usually three of those unholy trinity of ingredients I said.
I mean, these are not things that we should be normally eating.
So you brought up a couple of good points.
So just one quick thing on the Joe Rogan thing, and I think this is important.
This is not hyperbole, that in 2021 and 2020, when we were facing like the clearest demonstration yet that our metabolic health is such an important aspect, people that had good metabolic health, People that exercised, people that ate correctly, had almost a 0% chance of dying of COVID, okay?
And what an amazing example to us, you know, that we could really have a national effort to get our country a little bit more competitive.
And really cure the underlying cause of not only COVID deaths, but eight of the ten leading causes of American death.
Eight of the ten leading causes of American death are chronic conditions.
Okay?
And who was the number one threat to the medical system that Dr. Fauci on down were coordinating to call out in emails?
A podcast host that was saying every day the importance of exercising, eating well, being a good citizen, looking at the sun.
I mean, if you ever listen to the show, that is literally, day after day, what he is talking about.
And this is not a marginal thing, it's not frivolous.
He was enemy number one.
That is an extremely disruptive message.
And you look at Dr. Fauci, I'll just say it, right?
He oversaw, for the past 40 years, not only infectious disease, but autoimmune conditions, had a lot of oversight into funding for chronic conditions.
Under his watch, Chronic conditions have gone from around 10% of the population, they're at 60, on the road to 70%.
Autoimmune conditions, which are highly related to food, are off the charts.
Nowhere was Dr. Fauci screaming at the top of his lungs that we need to cut soda from food stamps, that we need to have a national policy, and just think about the oxygen and the money that was spent to get America to take a pharmaceutical product.
What if those trillions of dollars that we invested and attention from the leaders of health were around simple things like really stopping being a gluttonous society, being healthy, moving?
You know, a baby born Loves to move, loves to look at the sun, has a predisposition to natural food.
You know, Russell, I really think this is actually a spiritual crisis that we're in.
We're getting away from our core, as you said, just understanding.
It's so simple, but understanding what's going into our bodies.
I've been blind to this.
I was a defender of the pharma.
I was a defender of food.
But looking at a baby, And thinking about what actually is the highest leveraged things we can do for a citizen of this country, it's having more awe and understanding for the interconnectedness and basic metabolic habits that truly determine our happiness.
And there's actually, as you allude to, a way we can, from a public policy perspective, have leaders talk about that and shift money not going, you know, 95% of healthcare spending to drugs and interventions once people are sick, but shift it Not just to preventative.
People put food in a preventative box.
Actually, food can reverse most conditions better than any other.
You know, if you want to reverse diabetes, heart disease, dementia, there's groundbreaking studies showing the reversal of dementia and other brain issues like schizophrenia.
Through food.
It's the number one way to reverse.
And we could we could tomorrow.
And this is I actually, Russell, just close here.
It gives me hope because you're talking about it.
Obviously, Joe Rogan is talking about it.
Then a lot of health podcasts, both parties, every potential background of everyone's waking up to this.
There's a bottoms up revolution.
And I'll tell you, a lot of members of Congress, I think their eyes have been blinded.
This is complicated.
But but I think a lot of people waking up.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are waking up to discuss this in more depth, at more length, and in particular I want to ask you about a Zen pic we're going to have to transfer to being exclusively live on Rumble right now, so join us over there because I'm going to be asking Calli about how drug companies are I don't even want to say on YouTube, but it's that they're using very unusual means to promote particular drugs.
So if you're watching this on YouTube, join us over on Rumble now, where the entire conversation is available.
Let's go.
Kelly, what's this about a Zempik being... a Zempik, how it's being marketed irresponsibly, and also, in particular, I was told that drug companies are using race to sell drugs.
Can you tell me a little bit about that, please?
Yeah, I've had some folks who I used to work with who are actually working for Ozempic now giving me some reports, and this was actually just reported in the news outlets, and I'm happy to say there's a lot of appetite for congressional investigation.
So, yeah, Russell, is it okay if I give kind of a quick overview of Ozempic?
I know you talked about it with Joe Rogan, and, you know, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about this.
I think it's a perfect case study, so cool to kind of give a top-down example of how this really, yeah.
So, as I mentioned, and this is really important to understand, we are spending multiples more on healthcare and government healthcare in the U.S.
than the defense budget.
What's really bankrupting the country and really causing a competitiveness crisis is healthcare.
Now, this is not an exaggeration.
If Ozepic is approved, it will double, double the amount that Medicaid and Medicare, our two largest healthcare programs in the United States, spend on drugs.
Double.
And we're already at breaking our budget because of healthcare.
Ozempic is targeting 80% of the American people.
80% of the American people are overweight or obese.
And in America, once something's defined as a disease, you can't have the legislatures or lawmakers dictate what a doctor does.
You have some of this in Europe, but when Obama tried to have any type of approval of what a doctor can do, it's like, oh no, Dr. Obama can't intercede with a patient and a doctor.
So once it's approved as a disease, once this drug's approved, it's free reign.
The target market is 80%.
And another key thing to understand in America, Is that when volume goes up, you can't lower the drug prices.
The drug prices are set.
The drug prices, the government has no authority of the drug prices.
So right now, Zimpic is $2,000 a month.
And you would assume, you know, if it's if it goes to 40% of the population, you know, usually price goes down.
That doesn't happen in health care ever.
That doesn't happen with drugs.
So that $2,000 number is static.
There's no price controls in America.
Okay, so there's an all-out battle right now to define obesity as a disease, and that goes to Fatima Stanford, who we talked about, the head obesity doctor at Harvard, goes on 60 Minutes, and she says, and this is key, she says Americans have no control over obesity.
She said it's not related to diet, and it's not related to movement, it's just something people are unlucky to get through genetics.
That's key, because once something is defined as a disease, You can prescribe something for it.
And interestingly, and this is the new news, we talked about the NAACP and this is, this is evil.
The NAACP, I helped steer money to them for Coke for the NAACP to vociferously argue that parents who were concerned about their kids drinking too much Coke, which was paid for on food stamps, were racist.
And there was New York Times reporting the time and weaponized race to keep Coke on food stamps.
That happened in 2011.
Today, To hear this on Censored, watch on Rumble.
Only on Rumble, Censored.
Only on Rumble, Censored.
A 15-year-old child who's prescribed Azimbic is inevitably on a statin.
They inevitably have high blood pressure and taking a drug for that.
They inevitably If you're diabetic, you're three times more likely to be depressed and commit suicide.
Inevitably, they have some depression issues.
Inevitably, they're going to be dealing with fertility issues.
They're probably ADHD.
They're on a lot of these drugs, right?
Does anyone actually think...
That adding another lifetime drug that has really serious metabolic effects, this is a precipice moment.
This is a precipice.
Like, when are we going to say and realize that close to 100% of COVID deaths were people that had preventable metabolic dysfunction?
When are we going to realize that 8 of the 10 killers of Americans are?
There are things we can do.
Why the hell?
Aren't we having a national discussion, you know, to call sugar what it is?
It's a highly addictive drug.
And to think about the $4 trillion we spend on, or just take Ozipic, $2,000 a month.
This is what we're talking about with members of Congress.
What if you took that $2,000 a month and actually asked how to reverse what we have?
There's so many creative things you can do, right?
We're not, this isn't inevitable.
That we are going to this pharma-owned state, right?
Like, literally.
Like, $2,000 per patient is going to go from Ozempic.
That's on track to happen this year.
There's so much better things, and it's not inevitable.
And nobody, Russell, would design this system.
Nobody, you know, polls just came out showing, like, patriotism, religious affiliation, you know, going down.
All of these institutions, depression skyrocketing.
We're losing touch with our bodies, you know.
20% only of 21-year-olds are eligible to join the military because our population is so sedentary.
I mean, we've got a serious issue.
And actually, the solutions are pretty damn simple.
Take that $2,000 and ask, how do we incentivize better eating, more natural eating, movement?
We can do this.
And it's existential.
Yeah, it's very interesting to listen to you, Callie, and I understand that you're a libertarian, and there's so much within libertarianism that I agree with.
Certainly individual freedom, the maximum amount of freedom for the maximum amount of people.
And it's even clearer to see why more and more people are becoming libertarian when the state has so plainly partnered corporations when the biggest argument for state intervention is the ability that the state would have to protect the public perhaps from foreign invasion and certainly from ongoing corporate invasion.
It seems that they're Is a necessity for some assistance, service, help, aid for the many sick people in the world, particularly around the subject of mental health.
It appears that there's a mental health crisis.
Am I right in saying that 40 million Americans are on daily antidepressants now and that similarly this is something that could be decreased, altered radically by changing diet and changing behaviour?
Russell, it's tragic.
If you put any animal—let's just go back to the animal.
It's instructive for me.
If you put any animal in a cage with limited sunlight, with limited movement, and feed them ultra-processed crab, any animal would go crazy very quickly.
And, you know, again, I'm a libertarian.
I'm a capitalist, but I don't think we have a capitalist system.
I think we have a crony capitalist oligarchy, basically, right now.
I mean, we have an absolutely rigged system.
We're an American child.
It's a product.
And through a lot of incentives, We have been, and this is where I really think it gets to a spiritual level, too.
We have just been completely removed from our body.
We're thinking it's almost like fringe science to talk about nutrition.
Literally, that's how nutrition is defined in medical school.
When my sister, you know, asked maybe somebody with seven comorbidities could look at their diet, they said, don't be a pussy.
That's pseudoscience nutrition.
We do surgeries here.
We prescribe pills.
That's serious medicine.
That is how medicine sees literally the one ton of food that we put in our body.
You talk to a doctor at Harvard or Stanford about the importance of looking at sunlight or even sedentary behavior.
Preventative community health organizations can work on that.
We have been systematically removed and that ties to mental health, Russell.
I just cannot say this enough, and I'm on a journey, too.
I mean, this, you know, this all, you know, with my mom and, you know, COVID and different things, I've been on, we all are on a mental health journey.
But I just cannot say this, like, just clearly enough, and science backs this up, if you change your diet, And you cut ultra processed food out of your diet, and cut those three ingredients we talked about, and you commit to 150 minutes of getting your heart rate up at least a week for three months, you will feel something.
If you get sleep, these basic habits, and the fact that these aren't just the foundation when somebody's struggling with some mental health disorders, of getting your sleep, getting movement, looking at your diet, These things impact our cells.
20% of our energy is created in our brain, okay?
As I said, literally, dementia, even schizophrenia, highly related.
There's studies out of Harvard from some great doctors, actually, at Harvard and others.
Chris Palmer, this book, Brain Energy.
These are metabolic conditions.
So we just have this, we have this, like, detachment from our head being separate from the rest of our body.
Um, the first line of defense should be sleep movement.
Another study, Tucker.
I have Tucker on the line, I'm sorry.
We recently chatted with him.
That's the category I'm in now.
That's where your intuitive mind is taking us.
We've gone through Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, that's what it's become now.
Kelly, having met Tucker Carlson recently, it's for me a favourable comparison.
It's certainly not something I have a problem with.
It's just texting with him, actually, and I'm just amazed that he... It's just so awesome he's talking about this, and he just had Mark Hyman on, who's a hero of mine, so I guess he was on the mind.
But yeah, the fact that it's not the first line of defense is a scandal.
Russell, listen, I'm not saying it's good or bad on the SSRIs, but the fact that 25% of adult women are on an SSRI in America, it's an under-discussed societal dynamic.
This is a numbing drug.
This is a drug, again, that takes someone out of society a little bit, that numbs them a little bit.
And when 25% of the country of women are on a very strong, very numbing psychoactive drug, that's a dynamic.
You know, so to me, the mental health absolutely goes on this.
It's not a coincidence that now the second leading cause of death for teenagers is suicide.
Obviously, mental health problems are going off the charts.
I mean, it's very simple.
We are basically in boxes, sunless boxes, sedentary, with feeding tubes, feeding ourselves I appreciate what you said at the beginning, Russell.
Let's not be hyperbolic here, but that is true.
A hundred years ago, 0% of our diet was ultra-processed, close to it.
Now, it's 75%.
The ingredients I talked about were not in existence a hundred years ago.
We're putting into our bodies things we're not biologically made to eat, and that's impacting our brain.
The last thing I'll say on mental health You know, the head of the Harvard Psychology Department, they were putting on a conference on psychiatry and mental health, and they were looking for a speaker to talk about potential other modalities from SSRIs.
And the dean of the psychology school said they actually could not find a professor or doctor that wasn't conflicted with SSRI makers.
SSRIs are very much like Ozempic.
If you think about the raw economic incentives, they don't cure anything.
There's no science ever.
Actually, there's increasing science saying that they don't work at all better than a placebo.
But there's absolutely, everyone would agree, you go off of them, you're not cured.
Now, again, there might be some uses for them, I'm not giving a blanket statement, but the fact is, this is recurring revenue, right?
You are being pressured by your psychologist to be on these, these are treatment for life, okay?
And that's great, that's recurring appointments, that's recurring farmer revenue.
It's just interesting, and just getting into a little bit of history, but, you know, the whole war on drugs, Nixon.
People don't know this, but the grandfather of the Sackler family who did Purdue Pharma with the opioid crisis, their grandfather actually basically invented SSRIs and benzos and mental health medications because he saw that was the biggest market for chronic disease cures.
And he actually, his ally, actually wrote the War on Drugs legislation, the scheduling.
And it put, you know, SSRIs, benzos, other things that put them at a high, you know, not as worse of a class.
They actually saw, at the time, psychedelics as a threat because, as we see in increasing research, these are a one-time treatment.
It's not really a good pharma drug, right?
If the science says it can have long-term effects in one treatment, that's not pharma's business model.
And there's been a systematic, really from the War on Drugs onward, denigration, and that actually is tied a lot to mental health medications.
The last thing I'll just say here, Tucker, I think it's an important differentiation.
Because a lot of people say, well, hasn't the medical system done great stuff?
You know, we're being too mean here.
And the mental health hits on this very well.
It's chronic versus acute.
Every medical innovation and miracle we can think of most likely is an acute solve.
It's an antibiotic to cure infection.
It's emergency surgical procedures or procedures for birth.
A birth was a very dangerous thing 100 years ago.
Now it's not.
It's if you have an appendicitis.
If you have something that's about to kill you.
If you have a gunshot wound or a burst appendix or a complicated childbirth, go to the doctor.
It's a miracle what we've done.
But the problem is that the first chronic disease treatment in 1960, zero dollars, Zero percent of the medical budget was chronic issues.
The birth control pill showed that you can have a long-term pill.
That was the first chronic disease pill.
And a lot of people looked at that and said, how can we treat other chronic conditions that don't go away?
And now over 90 percent of medical spending is chronic conditions.
So we've shifted everything.
We haven't invented new antibiotic strains in decades.
We're not investing in things that go away.
We are only investing in managing chronic care.
That's 90% of cost.
But what's happened?
What's happened?
The rates of disease has gone up.
Cancer hasn't budged.
We've spent trillions on cancer.
Cancer rates are going up.
Cancer rates are going up.
We spend a trillion dollars plus on diabetes care.
Diabetes is skyrocketing.
Um, this is what folks need, and even members of Congress.
I'm actually glad that they're realizing this.
They don't even fully grapple with this.
Chronic disease management has been a cataclysm.
Siloing the human body into 42 different parts, and somebody that's diabetic and obese and has heart disease and depression, the fact that they're going to six different doctors for six different pills, this has been a disaster.
This is our life's work.
We need to unwind that and actually understand the interconnectedness of our body, which sounds almost like hippie, but it's actually like, I think, very grounded in science and what we have to do to turn this around.
Cheers, Callie.
A lot of you are getting a lot of love in the chat and some people are asking about the three foods that we should be avoiding.
Just to reiterate that is sugar, seed oil and what type of grains?
Hyper what grains?
Highly processed grains, yeah.
If you look at a label, it's a funny little thing, and you notice this.
You go to a grocery store, pick up a package, you're going to see some kind of highly processed wheat, right?
That's usually the first thing.
It's unbelievable what we can do with wheat, highly processed grains, sugar, and seed oils.
You're going to see that.
You're going to see canola oil.
I mean, I just tweeted something.
A post put out a wellness product for cereal to go to sleep.
And it's called, like, Sweet Dreams Cereal.
And, yeah, it's literally the... What was it?
Four different types of sugar, three different types of processed grains, and three different seed oils, canola, soybean, sunflower oil.
That was it.
And then some fortified vitamins.
Amazingly, getting to the corruption, right?
We've talked to, I think, briefly mentioned the Food Compass, but the lead NIH study This you can't even make up.
The lead NIH nutrition study, you kind of thought maybe this thing's over, people are wising up.
This came out in the past year, funded millions of dollars by the NIH.
They also allowed cereal companies and food companies to fund that study.
It says that Lucky Charms are healthier than eggs and beef, and that's being aggressively used right now to impact nutrition guidelines.
Let me just tell you, and let's get into the highly processed grains.
The shelf-stable grains, you just have to, you don't need any studies.
If something can stay on the counter for years, right, there's maybe just something wrong with that, right?
And the fact is that what rots is the fiber, which is actually giving you a lot of nutrition and blunts the glucose impact.
So that grain, when you eat a processed grain, which is really any packaged food, It increases your glucose levels in your blood.
It turns into sugar, essentially.
And that's leading to the fact, as I said, 50% of adults have prediabetes or diabetes.
The blood sugar dysregulation is a huge issue, and we've just normalized eating the stuff that really we're not made to eat.
They're also not that lucky.
We can move on now, Kelly, to just before we wrap up the show, why don't we talk about a few solutions?
I understand you've got like a three-point plan, a legal policy and personal habit approach to solutions.
Kelly, can you just give us that to wrap up our conversation, mate?
Yeah, I mean, on the personal empowerment, this is my message, and this is what my sister and I are writing in our book.
I just want to highlight this again.
Embrace that you've been gaslighted.
Embrace that you are a product.
And embrace that there are trillions of dollars to confuse you, and we are the only animal that's systematically confused.
Sorry, Russell, were you looking to production?
Thanks, Kelly.
Okay, no problem.
Embrace that I really just go to those three ingredients.
If you can look at labels and do those three ingredients, just limit those products.
You'd be shocked what's sneaking into your kid's food and your food.
I went through my dad.
My dad has a daughter who's a metabolic health leader, and I'm on the warpath.
You go through his fridge, all the stuff from Whole Foods that has these ingredients.
It's sneaking in everywhere.
If you can just be vigilant from highly processed grains, seed oils, canola, sunflower, etc., and sugar from your—you get 70 to 80 percent there.
You will transform your health.
And then it's simple.
I'm just going to say a simple thing, Russell.
I just cannot stress this enough.
We are not made to exercise.
Um, until, you know, 50 years ago, that was just part of what we did.
There didn't exercise didn't exist for 99.999% of human history.
Humans just had to move.
We have been systematically become sedentary.
So I actually hate exercise.
Exercise is a totally new thing where it's like, okay, take more time out of your day and spend more money.
Right?
To go to the gym to basically do what we're biologically supposed to do normally.
We have to, as a policy, make movement more embedded in daily life, but until then, you have to think of exercise in that standpoint.
It is absolutely vital.
If you take 10,000 steps a day, and Casey's talking about this, we're talking about this, but if you take 10,000 steps a day, if you make movement more part of your life, if you understand that that is just essential for ourselves as animals, that we're not only doing some aerobic exercise and getting to the gym, but exercising, standing up, walking, if you take 10,000 steps, The chance of you getting diabetes, heart disease, dementia, other conditions, is almost zero.
The United States should have a national emergency strategy to have people moving more.
Not just with exercise, but just as part of daily life.
So that's, those are two huge things.
The two other quick ones I'll say is sleep.
We've talked about sleep, but that's absolutely vital.
And then the sun.
We are made from the sun.
It is, Dr. Human has talked about this, a lot of people have talked about this,
but just the basic biological necessities.
For 99.99%, until 150 years ago, 200 years ago, we spent most of the time outside.
Until 200 years ago, when the sun went down, we were done, like we went to sleep.
Our circadian rhythm has been totally taken out of whack.
Airplanes were only popularized 60 years ago.
For most of human history, we were in one place, We went to bed when the lights went down.
You know, we weren't, our clocks weren't all out of whack.
That's having a huge impact and just respecting our circadian biology.
So those are a couple things we're talking about.
I want to stress this.
A lot of influencers, a lot of people that sell products want to make it complicated.
We need to understand that our biological needs have been taken away.
And if you can't afford, frankly, better food or able to move to a smaller house, if you're not able to get sleep because of your job or because you're Boyfriend snoring, dump the boyfriend.
If your dog's bothering you, getting sleep, get rid of the dog.
We have to incentivize and prioritize these basic metabolic habits.
And then the policy solutions, Russell.
There's easy policy solutions.
We need to cut the sugar recommendations.
My company, TruMed, is, I think, an important pillar on this.
We need to incentivize.
So there's tax-free accounts, $150 billion in these HSA accounts in the US where you can buy medical items tax-free.
Most of that goes to drug.
If a doctor writes a note saying you need food and exercise to prevent a condition,
then that counts.
It counts for a 30-40% savings.
So what we need to do eventually is spend less money on drugs and move more money to
fixing our food system.
That's what we're doing at TruMed, where you can buy exercise and food tax-free.
It's been a fantastic conversation.
Endlessly informative.
I've changed my name a couple of times during the conversation.
You can find out more about Callie and his work at trumed.com.
Also, you can see Callie at Community in 2023.
That's between July the 14th and July the 17th in the Hay on Why in the UK alongside Vandana Shiva, Wim Hof and so many others.
Callie, thanks for joining us.
That was fantastic and informative.
Thank you.
You're a hero.
Thank you.
Looking forward to meeting you in person, sleeping eight hours, eating only natural food, doing some exercise, and reiterating my actual name.
Kali, thank you so much for joining me.
So much love, mate.
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