The StoneZONE - Roger Stone - The Stone Zone | 09-25-25
Aired: 2025-09-26
Duration: 40:41


=== False Charges and Perp Walks (12:52) ===

[00:00:00]  Rural Americans deserve access to the best of what our nation has to offer, especially health care.
[00:00:06]  Across every state and every community, America's rural hospitals are the first line of defense, protecting our families, neighbors, and loved ones.
[00:00:15]  No matter where you live, hospital care doesn't clock out.
[00:00:18]  They're there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
[00:00:23]  Each year, America's over 5,000 hospitals care for millions of patients, providing 24-7 emergency care, delivering babies, cancer treatments, and other life-saving care that patients rely on.
[00:00:36]  Behind every one of those patients are doctors, nurses, and caregivers working tirelessly to keep people healthy and safe.
[00:00:44]  Hospitals are our community's lifelines.
[00:00:46]  They employ our neighbors and keep our families healthy.
[00:00:49]  But now, some in Congress are threatening access to care.
[00:00:53]  Tell Congress, protect patient care to keep America strong.
[00:00:57]  Don't cut rural health care.
[00:01:01]  The Stone Zone.
[00:01:02]  Entertaining and informative.
[00:01:04]  On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:01:10]  Welcome.
[00:01:10]  You are entering the Stone Zone.
[00:01:13]  Well, former FBI Director James Comey is expected to be indicted in the Eastern District of Virginia under perjury charges for false statements he made to Congress.
[00:01:24]  That's expected in the next few days.
[00:01:26]  The five-year statute of limitations is set to expire on Tuesday, and Comey would need to be prosecuted before that date over the false statements he gave to Congress on multiple dates.
[00:01:37]  There's a great deal of background about this case.
[00:01:40]  The U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia was fired only days ago and replaced by Lindsay Halligan, a White House lawyer and an extraordinarily capable young attorney.
[00:01:57]  But we know that when she arrived at the U.S. Attorney's Office, that Eric Siebert, the sitting U.S. attorney in the Eastern District, had prepared a 51-page memo arguing against the prosecution of James Comey.
[00:02:14]  Now, what we didn't know, the news that we are breaking right here in the Stone Zone, is that Eric Siebert had a stunning conflict of interest.
[00:02:26]  You see, Eric Siebert's father-in-law, his wife's father, was the godfather for James Comey's daughter.
[00:02:36]  That conflict of interest means that Eric Siebert should have recused himself from the beginning, but refused to do so.
[00:02:45]  It is also interesting that they let this go as long as they could, stalling.
[00:02:52]  Let's listen to the actual audio of James Comey committing perjury before the U.S. Congress.
[00:03:01]  There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever.
[00:03:03]  The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle.
[00:03:08]  They did it with purpose.
[00:03:10]  They did it with sophistication.
[00:03:11]  They did it with overwhelming technical efforts.
[00:03:15]  And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government.
[00:03:19]  There is no fuzz on that.
[00:03:21]  It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community.
[00:03:25]  And the members of this committee have seen the intelligence.
[00:03:28]  It's not a close call.
[00:03:30]  That happened.
[00:03:31]  That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that, because this is about America, not about any particular party.
[00:03:41]  So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country.
[00:03:46]  Yes, sir.
[00:03:46]  In that timeframe, there were more than the DNC and the DCCC that were targets.
[00:03:52]  Correct.
[00:03:53]  It was a massive effort to target government and non-governmental near-governmental agencies like nonprofits.
[00:04:00]  What would be the estimate of how many entities out there the Russians specifically targeted in that timeframe?
[00:04:07]  It's hundreds.
[00:04:08]  I suppose it could be more than a thousand, but it's at least hundreds.
[00:04:13]  Yeah, that is all completely and totally false.
[00:04:16]  There's no evidence to support it whatsoever, including the false claim that the Democrat National Committee was the target of an online hack by Russian intelligence.
[00:04:26]  But that's just one example of James O'Comey lying under oath.
[00:04:31]  This issue is rather near and dear to me because, of course, I was charged with lying under oath to Congress regarding the Russian collusion hoax.
[00:04:39]  On the other hand, no misstatement that I made under oath in my voluntary testimony was material or hid any underlying crime.
[00:04:48]  In other words, there was no Russian collusion or Wikileaks collaboration or hack of the DNC to cover up and lie about.
[00:04:57]  Let's listen to Mr. Comey lie one more time.
[00:04:59]  Do you stand by your House testimony of March 20th that there was no surveillance of the Trump campaign that you're aware of?
[00:05:06]  Correct.
[00:05:07]  You would know about it if they were, is that correct?
[00:05:10]  I think so, yes.
[00:05:11]  Okay.
[00:05:11]  In the meantime, there is a news story in the New York Times that says that the efforts by the Trump administration to prosecute CIA Director John Brennan, who also lied to Congress regarding the Russian collusion hook, have been stalled because Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, fired 37 NSA deep state operatives.
[00:05:37]  This is a planted story that is another lie.
[00:05:40]  None of the 37 national security deep staters who were terminated by Tulsi Gabbard are necessary.
[00:05:49]  None of their testimony or documents from them is necessary to prosecute Mr. Brennan.
[00:05:55]  This is a naked attempt to buy some in the deep state to discredit Gabbard.
[00:06:00]  In fact, Tulsi Gabbard's office says in the New York Times story that they have turned over more than sufficient declassified documents to justify the prosecution of John Brennan.
[00:06:14]  John Brennan, you will recall, specifically lied about including the Steele dossier, which was a fabrication, a false report of Fughazi paid for by Hillary Clinton's campaign that claimed that Donald Trump, while visiting Moscow as a private businessman, had dallied with Russian prostitutes and had watched them urinate on a hotel room bed that was once occupied by President Barack Obama.
[00:06:43]  This is a complete and total falsehood.
[00:06:46]  Not only did Brennan include this in President Barack Obama's intelligence assessment, but he testified for Congress that it was included only in the footnotes when in fact it was included both in the footnotes and as the fourth major supporting point of the false conclusion that the Russians interfered with the election.
[00:07:08]  So you have two major efforts here afoot to discredit the prosecution of FBI Director James Comey and CIA Director John Brennan.
[00:07:21]  Just remember the New York Times, all that's fit, pardon me, all the news that's fit to print embellished with a liberal tint.
[00:07:31]  Now, President Donald Trump recently called out the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, for lack of swift action going after the Russia Gate conspirators.
[00:07:39]  Trump was, like me, incredulous as to why Comey, as well as Senator Adam Shifty-Schiff, as well as New York State Attorney General Letitia Lowe IQ James, have not been hit with any charges for their obvious litany of crimes.
[00:07:55]  It appears that President Trump's swift kick to the Attorney General's Derrier has spurred her into action.
[00:08:02]  The patience of those in the MAG allegiance is wearing thin.
[00:08:07]  It's time for the deep state to take the humiliating perp walks and endure the brutal court proceedings like President Trump did, like General Mike Flynn did, and like I did, and so many other patriots were forced to endure during the Biden years.
[00:08:22]  It's time for them to pay the price for their illegal acts now when Trump has the power to do so.
[00:08:28]  We also, it remains to be seen now, after the question whether James Comey is prosecuted, whether the new acting U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District, Lindsey Halligan, will proceed to prosecute New York Attorney General Letitia James.
[00:08:45]  Reuters and other fake news outlets have continued to argue that there's no evidence of mortgage fraud in the case of Letitia James, but as we have demonstrated here in the Stone Zone multiple times, that is completely false.
[00:09:00]  The same week that Letitia James was prosecuting Donald Trump for allegedly inflating the value of his assets in order to secure real estate development loans, loans that were paid back in full and on time, with the lenders making as much as $40 million in interest, James was signing a power of attorney.
[00:09:25]  This was not a fill-in-the-blank document, but required her signature witnessed by people in the New York Attorney General's office in multiple cases, in which she claimed that she would own or occupy a property that she bought in Norfolk, Virginia.
[00:09:41]  That is mortgage fraud.
[00:09:43]  It also leads to the question of whether or not there are downstream crimes such as tax fraud, insurance fraud, or wire fraud, very common in these kinds of cases.
[00:09:57]  Kind of ironic to hear Attorney General Letitia James in an interview with Joy Reed, if Joy Reed's IQ was one point lower, you'd have to water her like a plant, saying that mortgage fraud crimes are very, very, very rarely prosecuted.
[00:10:14]  Well, no one has ever been prosecuted under the law that Letitia James used and weaponized to try to take down Donald Trump.
[00:10:22]  By the way, the New York State Appeals Court has overturned that decision, a $540 million decision, I believe.
[00:10:31]  And it is now the Attorney General who is appealing.
[00:10:34]  So it remains to be seen whether Lindsey Halligan, who is an enormously capable woman, someone I know personally, will proceed to bring a proceeding for mortgage fraud and other crimes against the New York Attorney General.
[00:10:50]  That is the open question.
[00:10:52]  Meanwhile, former National Guardsmen have been charged with a plot to supply al-Qaeda with 3D printed guns.
[00:10:59]  A former member of the Army National Guard has been charged with attempting to provide material support to a terrorist group after he allegedly tried to ship 3D printed guns to al-Qaeda affiliates.
[00:11:12]  25-year-old Andrew Scott Hastings was caught in a sting speaking to an FBI agent who believed, we now believe, was working for al-Qaeda.
[00:11:21]  Hastings once held a national security clearance.
[00:11:24]  Somehow, he became radicalized and allegedly started recruiting al-Qaeda members to conduct weapons in praise Hamas's terrorist actions against Israel.
[00:11:34]  Meanwhile, although Google was forced to admit a widespread political bias and opened the doors for content creators who they unfairly banned from their YouTube platform, which they own, seems like they're back to their old tricks.
[00:11:50]  They have once again banned Infor's founder, Alex Jones.
[00:11:54]  Alex Jones is now reaching literally millions of people after being unbanned and uncensored on X.
[00:12:02]  But now YouTube has an announcement justifying their continued banning of Jones.
[00:12:10]  We've seen some of the previously terminated creators try to start new channels.
[00:12:14]  To clarify, our pilot program on terminations is not yet open.
[00:12:18]  It's still against our community guidelines for premisally terminated users to use, possess, or create other channels, and will terminate new channels from previously terminated users in accordance with these guidelines.
[00:12:32]  So in other words, YouTube will continue to be selective in who they allow on their platform and refuse to uphold the value of free speech.
[00:12:41]  This is why alternatives such as Rumble should be advocated.
[00:12:45]  We cannot trust big tech giants to do the right thing, and we should be looking to divest in their efforts whenever possible.

=== YouTube's Selective Free Speech (05:07) ===

[00:12:52]  I experienced this myself.
[00:12:54]  I had nearly 1 million followers on what was then Twitter.
[00:12:58]  I had 350,000 on what was then Facebook.
[00:13:04]  I had about 85,000 on Instagram.
[00:13:09]  And I had 15 years of video work invested in YouTube, all of them disappearing in the blink of an eye.
[00:13:19]  Never so much as a notification as to why, although I know why.
[00:13:23]  It's because I was a supporter of Donald Trump and because I was a persistent critic of the Russian collusion hoax, which we have now definitively proved was exactly that.
[00:13:35]  The greatest single dirty trick in American political history and an abuse of power in which they use the full authority of the U.S. government and the incredible capabilities of our intelligence agencies to try to undo the results of the 2016 election.
[00:13:52]  Now, finally, it appears that James Comey, the particularly arrogant FBI director, will be held responsible.
[00:13:59]  Remains to be seen whether former CI Director John Brennan, former National Security Advisor Susan Rice, or the former Director of National Intelligence General Clapper will follow Comey into the witness stand and the dock.
[00:14:16]  I'm Roger Stone.
[00:14:17]  You're listening to the Stone Zone and we'll be right back.
[00:14:21]  Rural Americans deserve access to the best our nation has to offer, especially when it comes to health care.
[00:14:27]  Across every state and every community, America's rural hospitals are the first line of defense, protecting our families, neighbors, and loved ones.
[00:14:35]  No matter where you live, hospital care doesn't clock out.
[00:14:38]  They're there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
[00:14:42]  Each year, America's over 5,000 hospitals care for millions of patients, providing 24-7 emergency care, delivering babies, cancer treatments, and other life-saving care that patients rely on.
[00:14:54]  Behind every one of those patients are doctors, nurses, and caregivers working tirelessly to keep people healthy and safe.
[00:15:01]  Hospitals are our community's lifelines.
[00:15:04]  They employ our neighbors and keep our families health.
[00:15:07]  But now, some in Congress are threatening access to care.
[00:15:10]  Tell Congress, protect patient care to keep America strong.
[00:15:14]  Don't cut rural health care.
[00:15:17]  The Stone Zone.
[00:15:19]  Entertaining and informative.
[00:15:21]  On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:15:24]  You're back in the Stone Zone.
[00:15:27]  Joining me soon will be one of the country's foremost experts on gunshot and gunshot wounds.
[00:15:33]  Dr. Paul K. Maurer will join us.
[00:15:36]  He's been in the Stone Zone before, has more extensive medical experience in the area of gunshot wounds than perhaps any doctor in the country.
[00:15:45]  We're going to be talking about the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk because I think the American people deserve the truth, and I don't believe we have yet gotten the truth.
[00:15:56]  There's a lot of different theories.
[00:15:57]  We're going to talk about that coming up right here in the Stone Zone.
[00:16:00]  In the meantime, the Department of Justice has finally ordered an investigation into the George Soros network as a wave of far-left terror sweeps across America.
[00:16:11]  The Trump administration is preparing to scour the dark money networks affiliated under the Open Society Foundations that are used to fund agitators and spread propaganda, radicalizing liberals into going to war against the United States.
[00:16:26]  Let's be clear.
[00:16:27]  We're not talking about speech here.
[00:16:28]  We're talking about those who engage in mayhem violence, causing damage to millions of dollars of property, wounding and harming thousands of citizens, and actually killing people.
[00:16:43]  Meanwhile, in California, ICE agents under the Department of Homeland Security will not comply with the state's new face mask ban.
[00:16:55]  The DHS stated in an ex post that they believe the ban is unconstitutional.
[00:17:00]  The Department of Homeland Security Assistance Secretary Tricia McLaughlin stated, by enacting this policy, Governor Gavin Newsom is fanning the flames of division, hatred, and the dehumanization of our law enforcement officials.
[00:17:14]  You see, it's very clear that Newsom wants to put ICE agents in danger by forcing them to reveal their identities so they can then be doxxed by left-wing activists and their families and homes can be targeted and they themselves can be attacked.
[00:17:29]  This is a way to prevent the crackdown on illegals, which has run rampant in California due to the state's sanctuary policies.
[00:17:37]  California's law is essentially null and void because the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution takes precedence over state law.
[00:17:46]  There's very little they can do other than whine and stomp their feet to prevent ICE from doing their jobs.
[00:17:52]  But Governor Newsom's face mask ban is really just public preening for his upcoming presidential campaign.

=== JFK's Frontal Wound Mystery (15:46) ===

[00:18:00]  This is all about 2028.
[00:18:03]  I still ask the same question they used to ask about Governor Mike Dukakis.
[00:18:07]  Will Gavin Newsom run for president on the slogan, he'll do for America what he did for California?
[00:18:15]  If he does, that means unprecedented lawlessness, homelessness, huge high taxes, a lack of jobs and economic opportunity, and a homeless crisis unmatched across the country.
[00:18:29]  California, once the golden state, is a shambles, thanks to the leadership of one Gavin Newsom, who clearly has decided to try to act like Donald Trump.
[00:18:40]  All this guy has going for him is gray hair.
[00:18:43]  If the Democrats nominate him, he will be vanquished by the Republican nominee, whoever that might be in 2028.
[00:18:50]  You're listening to the Stone Zone here on the Red Apple audio networks.
[00:18:54]  And when we return, Dr. Paul K. Maurer joins us.
[00:18:58]  He is probably the country's foremost expert on gunshot wounds.
[00:19:03]  He's going to talk to us about what he saw in the brutal political assassination of Charlie Kirk.
[00:19:09]  Don't go away.
[00:19:10]  We'll be right back.
[00:19:19]  Entertaining and informative.
[00:19:21]  On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:19:24]  Welcome back into the stone zone.
[00:19:28]  Joining me now is Dr. Paul K. Maurer.
[00:19:31]  Paul Maurer is a graduate of the University of Rochester.
[00:19:35]  He got his medical degree at the University of Rochester.
[00:19:38]  He did his neurosurgeon residency at the University of Rochester Medical Center.
[00:19:45]  He was an attending neurosurgeon for the United States Army at the San Francisco, California Letterman Medical Center.
[00:19:53]  He was the attending neurosurgeon at Walter Reed Army Medical Center from 1988 to 1992, the chief of neurosurgery at the 86th Evacuation Hospital during the Saudi in the Gulf War in Saudi Arabia.
[00:20:09]  He's also assistant professor of neurology at the University of Rochester from 1992 to 1998, professor of neurology, University of Rochester from 1998 to the present time.
[00:20:20]  He's also the attending neurosurgeon at the UHS Medical Wilson Medical Center and has been a board-certified member of the American Board of Neurosurgery since 1988.
[00:20:32]  I go through all of those academic and military credentials to say that he is one of the country's, if not the country's leading expert on gunshot wounds.
[00:20:43]  And he, like many, many Americans, still is studying and looking at the horrific and brutal political assassination of my good friend, Charlie Kirk.
[00:20:55]  Dr. Maurer, welcome back into the Stone Zone.
[00:20:59]  It's an honor to be here, sir.
[00:21:02]  As you know, I have written a New York Times best-selling book on the Kennedy assassination.
[00:21:08]  I've just finished a book on the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan that'll be out by Christmas.
[00:21:16]  Both of them serious questions about the ballistics and the circumstances surrounding those shootings.
[00:21:24]  In the case of JFK, the government conducted investigation by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who took an entire seven days to declare that there was a lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, a disgruntled communist, who fired three shots hitting John F. Kennedy from the rear.
[00:21:48]  Nothing else to see here.
[00:21:50]  Handing it off to the Warring Commission.
[00:21:52]  Actually, it was 50 years yesterday.
[00:21:57]  Essentially asking them and getting them to rubber stamp that conclusion.
[00:22:01]  We now know, of course, that that's not true due to a number of studies, but also a stunning new documentary on Paramount, What the Parkland Doctors Saw, had a number of the attending physicians say that they saw in JFK wounds consistent with his being shot from the front and the back.
[00:22:24]  And the doctors at Parkland also noted a massive grapefruit size blowout wound in the back of JFK's head, which would indicate that he'd been shot from the front.
[00:22:36]  They also noted that the wound in his throat, where a tracheotomy had been later performed, was most likely an entry wound rather than, as the Warring Commission tries to tell us, an exit wound.
[00:22:50]  So if we buy the FBI's assessment so far, that Charlie Kirk was shot from the front with a 30-aught six charge, should there not have been an exit wound and a blood splatter in such a wound?
[00:23:08]  A couple things.
[00:23:10]  I like to try to take all these surgical dilemmas, trauma dilemmas, bullet wounds, and everything else.
[00:23:16]  You know, as I mentioned, you know, balls are balls, strikes are strikes.
[00:23:20]  And so I try to call them as they are and assess them as scientifically as I can based on, you know, almost over 14,000 brain and spinal cord operations.
[00:23:30]  It's been through a lot of blood over the years.
[00:23:33]  So let's, if it's okay with you, I would start it right with what we have to deal with, recognizing, you know, we don't have all the cards on the table, which is always the problem, because voids of knowledge will always be filled with speculation, which frankly is imposed upon us, not to sound too harsh on that statement, but when you have a void, people will fill the void.
[00:23:58]  So from a standpoint of terminal ballistics, which as you mentioned, I lecture a lot about to military and law enforcement literally all over the world, which I don't know the word expert applies, but certainly I spend a lot of time dealing with that as well as my surgical experience.
[00:24:16]  There are some very interesting aspects of this case.
[00:24:21]  And so to walk through them, just a moment, it's very important as I waded through over these last two weeks or whatever it is now of speculation, some of which is very sound, some of which would strike me as maybe, in my opinion, a little less sound.
[00:24:39]  Let's see what we have.
[00:24:41]  If there's four camera angles to visualize this, and obviously our video data is our best, it's the best data we have at this point, recognizing as effective as it is and high quality some of the shots are, it still leaves some room.
[00:24:57]  But first, let's start with the very first couple frames of that.
[00:25:01]  And I walk through this frame by frame by frame as much as possible multiple times.
[00:25:07]  And as he has the microphone in his hand, he answers that final question, leans back, and you hear the snap, the signature of, it's almost certainly a rifle sound.
[00:25:19]  You always have to be careful about saying that, but it's certainly an unsuppressed, non-silenced weapon because it's a different sound characteristic.
[00:25:26]  It sounds rifle crack of an unsuppressed weapon.
[00:25:31]  And almost immediately, now I would keep in mind, and this is going to be important when we walk through the neck wound for the ballistics.
[00:25:37]  We're just going to walk through this neck wound a bit at a time.
[00:25:42]  The round that I practice most with for precision rifle closes 700 yards in 1.03 seconds.
[00:25:51]  So the sound from the snap of that rifle to impact is a distance of variably reported between 146 and 200 yards.
[00:25:59]  Now, yes, we can't assume that's where he was shot from.
[00:26:03]  So I'm not saying that's not etched in stone.
[00:26:06]  I'm just saying the theory right now, he was shot from a slightly upper depth down angle, from a decline angle, maybe 15, 20 degrees or so, someplace 200 or less.
[00:26:20]  That bullet's going to close that distance in a fraction of a second.
[00:26:24]  The fact that it's potentially a 30-odd 6, again, we don't want, because if we're really going to do an analysis of this in a clean fashion, we can't even etch that in stone.
[00:26:34]  But let's, for the sake of discussion, say it was a Mauser Model 98, somewhat short in barrel, apparently, maybe 20, 22 inches or so from what they're divulging so far.
[00:26:44]  Bolt action weapon with a scope, of course.
[00:26:47]  That's, you know, that's a doable shot, as I think most people agree.
[00:26:51]  It's, you know, you couldn't just pick that up having no experience, but some moderated experience, that's a doable shot.
[00:26:57]  I would start by saying, because I lecture so much to the military and to law enforcement people, I've spent a lot of time over the last two weeks, me calling people, them calling me.
[00:27:07]  The first thing I'd say is, I'm sure obviously you know better than anybody, he wasn't aiming for his carotid artery in the neck.
[00:27:13]  That was either a headshot that went low or a chest shot that went high.
[00:27:17]  I have never heard in training or ever that anyone aims for the neck.
[00:27:22]  That doesn't make it a bad shot.
[00:27:23]  It was highly effective.
[00:27:25]  I'm just saying that, you know, that was either a low headshot or a high chest shot.
[00:27:30]  But it ended up in about the worst place you could possibly get hit in your neck.
[00:27:35]  You see him lean back after he brings the mic away from his comment, and you hear the signature of the rifle sound, you see an immediate little splash of blood, maybe centimeter and a half, two centimeters maximum, less than an inch.
[00:27:49]  You see a little absolutely circular splash of blood followed.
[00:27:54]  Now, I haven't seen anybody mention this, which is interesting to me.
[00:27:58]  But if you go back and look at the video frame by frame, the most common video, pretty macabre, I agree, but the one mostly from in front, you see something very interesting, which has not been mentioned by anybody that's seen.
[00:28:11]  Walking through what happens when a bullet hits you, and this is essential to analyzing exit, entry, should it have left his neck, should it have stayed in his neck.
[00:28:20]  These are all answerable questions.
[00:28:23]  When you get hit with a bullet, so you pull that trigger on the 30-Ox 6, that bullet impacts the front of the neck in what's called the sternocleidomastoid.
[00:28:33]  Not trying to confuse anybody with a lot of words.
[00:28:35]  It's the muscle that runs down the front of your neck.
[00:28:38]  When you look in the mirror, you'll see a muscle that goes from your top of your breastbone and heads behind the ear.
[00:28:44]  That's the sternocleidomastoid muscle.
[00:28:47]  We spend a lot of time there in neurosurgery because when we fix broken necks or we fuse your neck, we literally make an incision exactly where he got shot.
[00:28:57]  And you put your finger in after you dissect the platysma muscle, and in five minutes, your finger's on the front of the spine, which is in the center of your neck.
[00:29:04]  So that's well-traveled territory surgically.
[00:29:07]  That bullet, like a surgical incision, hit right at the left sternocleidomastoid, inferior one-third.
[00:29:13]  The carotid artery is five centimeters, two inches, depends on the size of your neck.
[00:29:18]  He's got a pretty big, beefy neck.
[00:29:20]  But that bullet went straight through, and as soon as you see that splash, just a circular drop of blood where the wound is, the next couple frames you see blood gushing out.
[00:29:32]  And to anybody who's a neurosurgeon or a vascular surgeon, as soon as my wife told me he got shot and I looked at that video, well, there's his left carotid artery.
[00:29:39]  I mean, that was the entire left carotid artery pumping out that wound.
[00:29:43]  Now, what happens when a bullet hits you?
[00:29:46]  If I take, this is an important concept for people to understand for where we're going to go with this, because there's a lot of myth out there, even by people that hunt a lot and all that.
[00:29:56]  I get that.
[00:29:56]  But it is a scientific discipline after all.
[00:30:00]  If I take a screwdriver with a half-inch flathead, and the screwdriver's shaft is 12 inches long, and I plunge that in your neck exactly where he got shot, you're going to get a hole as deep as I plunge the screwdriver, half an inch wide.
[00:30:16]  That's called a permanent wound tract.
[00:30:19]  In other words, what's in that plunge of the screwdriver is half inch wide, layer of tissue is 12 inches.
[00:30:26]  If I bury the handle in your neck, that tissue is gone.
[00:30:30]  It's history.
[00:30:31]  It's toast.
[00:30:32]  Forget it.
[00:30:33]  Well, how much damage occurs depends on what it hits.
[00:30:36]  As fate would have it, when Kennedy got shot in the neck, I do think from in front, about the fourth tracheal ring, a miracle of anatomy for him.
[00:30:45]  It didn't really, it didn't hit his vertebral.
[00:30:48]  It didn't hit his carotid.
[00:30:49]  You know, it's a little unusual to get shot in the neck and not catch some really big stuff, but he didn't.
[00:30:55]  Unfortunately for Charlie Kirk, the opposite is the case.
[00:30:58]  This thing within two inches was through his carotid artery, or if he got shot from another angle within 10 inches, 11 inches maximally for a neck, even a big neck, that carotid was gone.
[00:31:10]  Now, there's a difference between a screwdriver, though, or an arrow, or a knife, and a bullet.
[00:31:16]  Because for those of you out in the audience that are not shooting, you know, aren't down the rabbit hole of shooting, kinetic energy depends on the mass of the bullet, in this case, probably 150 grains, up to 180 grains, most likely.
[00:31:31]  The kinetic energy, the amount of energy in that bullet, when that bullet smacks the front of your neck, not only does it make a hole all the way through your neck, the size of the bullet, in this case, about a third of an inch, you're going to get tissue a third of an inch diameter, gone.
[00:31:47]  The bullet destroyed it like a freight train going through.
[00:31:50]  But there's more.
[00:31:51]  And you can see this very clearly on the video.
[00:31:54]  When the bullet hits tissue, it dumps its energy.
[00:31:58]  And that energy dumps and stretches the tissue.
[00:32:02]  Because human tissue is almost like gelatin, which is why we use gelatin mold to study it.
[00:32:08]  Bone's bone, got it.
[00:32:10]  But most of the rest of the tissue is, to some degree, gelatin-like in consistency.
[00:32:15]  And as the bullet plows through the tissue, dependent on the amount of energy in the bullet, the tissue stretches.
[00:32:24]  So that one-third inch cavity the bullet went through, the diameter of the bullet.
[00:32:31]  Now you get three to four times the amount of tissue, a third of an inch.
[00:32:36]  Now you're one or two inches of tissue that gets ripped apart as the energy splashes into the tissue around it.
[00:32:43]  If you look at the frames immediately after you see the red splash on the front of his neck, go through it frame by frame.
[00:32:51]  Look at the frames right before he's shot.
[00:32:53]  His neck, his whole neck expands 20%.
[00:32:58]  The whole bottom of his face expands all the way up to his jaw.
[00:33:03]  You can see on both sides, the tissue just puffs like a blowfish almost.
[00:33:08]  Not to be macabre.
[00:33:10]  But at first, you think, well, that's kind of a photographic aberration.
[00:33:13]  It isn't.
[00:33:14]  That's the kinetic energy of that bullet dumping into the soft tissue of his neck as it goes through.
[00:33:21]  Because a 30-odd six round, people get hung up on the caliber a lot.
[00:33:26]  It's a fascination that has some true value, but I would only say identifying entry and exit wounds is much more challenging than the usual thought that's applied to it.
[00:33:39]  There's a lot of Dr. Maurer, we're going to have to take a quick commercial break and we'll be back with your expert analysis.
[00:33:45]  This is fascinating, folks.

=== Bullets And Side Wounds (05:09) ===

[00:33:46]  Don't go away.
[00:33:47]  Don't touch that guy.
[00:33:48]  We'll be right back with Dr. Paul Maurer, one of the world's foremost experts on gunshot wounds and one of the most respected neurosurgeons in the nation.
[00:33:57]  Don't go away.
[00:34:00]  The Stone Zone.
[00:34:01]  Entertaining and informative.
[00:34:04]  On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:34:07]  I am so grateful to those kind words from Vice President JD Vance.
[00:34:14]  To continue our conversation, we're talking to Dr. Paul Maurer, one of the most respected neurosurgeons in the country and an expert on bullet wounds and gunshot wounds.
[00:34:28]  And he's giving us his expert analysis of what he has seen in the various videotapes of the brutal assassination of my good friend Charlie Kirk.
[00:34:38]  Dr. Maurer, the floor is yours.
[00:34:40]  Thank you, sir.
[00:34:41]  As I was saying, the power behind a 30-odd fix is, you know, more than a 76308.
[00:34:50]  It's below some of the long, long-range military sniper rifles.
[00:34:54]  But it's used as a hunting rifle for medium to large game, specifically, because it has a very long shell casing with a lot of propellant, and it puts the bullet out there at 2,900, 2,800, 3,000 feet per second.
[00:35:08]  You can use pretty heavy bullets.
[00:35:10]  But the performance of the bullet in tissue, where it stretches and destroys that tissue, and how far does it go before it stalls?
[00:35:19]  In other words, does it get out your neck?
[00:35:22]  Does it get to the other side of your chest?
[00:35:24]  Hunting rounds are specifically designed to go deep.
[00:35:28]  Hunters want deep penetration because they're shooting quadrupeds.
[00:35:33]  Another topic never brought up.
[00:35:35]  Hunters shoot quadrupeds.
[00:35:36]  Those are four-legged animals.
[00:35:38]  80% of gunshot wounds to animals, deer, elk, are in the side of the chest or the side of the abdomen, side of the head, because you're shooting at the biggest surface area.
[00:35:47]  Humans, only 12% of shots are in the side, just statistically, because it's not as available and it's harder to hit.
[00:35:54]  So the 30-odd 6 bullet, there are very few tactical bullets.
[00:35:59]  The military actually doesn't want that much penetration.
[00:36:02]  They want 18 inches, 16 inches, but at 16 inches, you're out the back of the body, in which case that stretch cavity is gone because all the energy and the bullets flying out the back.
[00:36:12]  So the tactical bullets are designed differently because they want that stretch cavity early on.
[00:36:18]  30 odd 6 is usually designed so you get it a little bit later because they want those hunters, want those 30 odd 6 rounds going 30 inches, 24 inches deep.
[00:36:28]  Well, a neck's only about what?
[00:36:30]  10 to 11 inches, even in a pretty big neck, not even that in most necks.
[00:36:35]  So statistically statistically, you would expect this bullet to go out the other side in a neck.
[00:36:43]  It'd be unusual, not rare.
[00:36:46]  But you know I, I you can't put a number because you don't have, there are no statistics to prove it.
[00:36:51]  But I would say, if you look at gelatin shots of 30 odd six, 90 of the time that bullet would be sailing right out the back of his neck.
[00:36:59]  Now the bullet was aimed slightly down.
[00:37:02]  So we have to remember that whether it was from behind, I mean almost any of the relevant shooting positions would be flat to somewhat down.
[00:37:12]  So since it hit the lower third of the sternocleidomastoid muscle, low third of the neck, did that bullet then dive into the upper chest?
[00:37:21]  It still would normally exit.
[00:37:23]  That's a bullet that has a penetration of, you know 14, 16 inches minimally, and usually with that round i'm giving a benefit of the doubt here most of those 30 odd six rounds have very deep penetration, the heavier ones, 30 inches.
[00:37:38]  So is it possible to not exit?
[00:37:41]  Yes, because all things are possible.
[00:37:43]  Could that bullet one thing you can see now we don't know if you are sitting where Charlie Kirk was and this shot came from say, the 10 o'clock position on his view, about 30 degrees ish off his left side, away from his nose to the left.
[00:37:58]  Could that bullet have cleared the carotid tore that in half, struck his upper thoracic spine, which is what it would have hit, and then ricocheted down the chest wall?
[00:38:08]  That's possible.
[00:38:10]  You do see that.
[00:38:11]  You do see that?
[00:38:12]  Um, it's possible.
[00:38:13]  I would only say that bullet was fired from a pretty short distance.
[00:38:16]  That thing was still cooking, probably at least 2500 feet per second, when it hit him, because it's pretty near shot, as those bullets go.
[00:38:25]  So is it impossible that it didn't exit?
[00:38:28]  It's not impossible.
[00:38:30]  But if it hit them, it would have had to hit either a proximal big rib, second or third rib, to ricochet down or the vertebrae.
[00:38:38]  If it hits an object like bone, they can fragment and then the fragments don't have the oomph, the momentum to go all the way out the skin.
[00:38:45]  So you do sometimes.
[00:38:46]  Jack Ruby, in fact, the bullet that killed him was guttered under the skin because it's hard to get through skin.
[00:38:52]  Skin's like a big tent wrapping your body.

=== Why Bullets Don't Always Exit (01:45) ===

[00:38:55]  Unfortunately, Dr. Moore, I have to stop you there because we've run out of time.
[00:38:58]  I want to get you back for the full hour because this is fascinating and we need to get to your conclusions.
[00:39:04]  But we're very honored to have you today in the Stone Zone.
[00:39:07]  And thanks for our listeners.
[00:39:10]  Until tomorrow, God bless you and Godspeed.
[00:39:13]  Thanks for listening to the Stone Zone with Roger Stone.
[00:39:17]  You can hear the Stone Zone with Roger Stone weeknights at 8 on 77 WABC.
[00:39:23]  If you like the podcast, share it with your friends and listen anytime at WABCRadio.com and download the WABC Radio app.
[00:39:32]  Hit that subscribe button on all major podcast platforms.
[00:39:35]  Plus, follow WABC on social, on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X. See you next time for a new episode.
[00:39:43]  So you never have to wonder what the heck is going on here.
[00:39:47]  Rural Americans deserve access to the best our nation has to offer, especially when it comes to health care.
[00:39:53]  Across every state and every community, America's rural hospitals are the first line of defense, protecting our families, neighbors, and loved ones.
[00:40:01]  No matter where you live, hospital care doesn't clock out.
[00:40:04]  They're there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
[00:40:09]  Each year, America's over 5,000 hospitals care for millions of patients, providing 24-7 emergency care, delivering babies, cancer treatments, and other life-saving care that patients rely on.
[00:40:21]  Behind every one of those patients are doctors, nurses, and caregivers working tirelessly to keep people healthy and safe.
[00:40:28]  Hospitals are our community's lifelines.
[00:40:30]  They employ our neighbors and keep our families health.
[00:40:34]  But now, some in Congress are threatening access to care.
[00:40:37]  Tell Congress, protect patient care to keep America strong.