The StoneZONE - Roger Stone - The Stone Zone | 05-23-25
Aired: 2025-05-24
Duration: 39:58


=== Hospitals As Lifelines (02:16) ===

[00:00:00]  Rural Americans deserve access to the best of what our nation has to offer, especially health care.
[00:00:06]  Across every state and every community, America's rural hospitals are the first line of defense, protecting our families, neighbors, and loved ones.
[00:00:15]  No matter where you live, hospital care doesn't clock out.
[00:00:18]  They're there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
[00:00:23]  Each year, America's over 5,000 hospitals care for millions of patients, providing 24-7 emergency care, delivering babies, cancer treatments, and other life-saving care that patients rely on.
[00:00:36]  Behind every one of those patients are doctors, nurses, and caregivers working tirelessly to keep people healthy and safe.
[00:00:44]  Hospitals are our community's lifelines.
[00:00:46]  They employ our neighbors and keep our families healthy.
[00:00:49]  But now, some in Congress are threatening access to care.
[00:00:53]  Tell Congress, protect patient care to keep America strong.
[00:00:57]  Don't cut rural health care.
[00:01:00]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:01:06]  Welcome.
[00:01:07]  You are entering the Stone Zone, and we have a really big shoe for you, as the late Ed Sullivan used to say.
[00:01:15]  I would call it one big beautiful show.
[00:01:17]  As a matter of fact, we're still celebrating the passage by the U.S. House of Representatives of what is arguably the most significant piece of legislation that will ever be signed in the history of our country.
[00:01:29]  This bill is a massive across-the-board tax cut.
[00:01:33]  No, it's not just tax cuts for the rich, as some would have you believe, but an across-the-board tax cut, which benefits every American, because as John F. Kennedy said, a rising tide lifts all boats.
[00:01:48]  This bill not only renews the tax cuts passed by President Donald Trump in his first term in January, which by the way, that was the largest tax cut in history prior to the one passed by the House yesterday, but it also provides no tax on tips, no tax on overtime tax deductions when you purchase an American-made car or truck,

=== Gas Prices Plummet (10:39) ===

[00:02:16]  along with funding for stronger border security, pay raises for our ICE and Border Patrol agents, funding for the Golden Dome.
[00:02:26]  We used to call it the Strategic Defense Initiative.
[00:02:29]  It's an idea that has come a long way since first proposed by President Ronald Reagan and could protect America from incoming ICBM missiles, just as this technology currently protects Israel.
[00:02:42]  There are also savings accounts in there for newborn babies and much, much more.
[00:02:48]  There's a lot of disinformation about the Big Beautiful bill.
[00:02:52]  So Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besson is going to join us shortly to explain the implications of the passage of the new budget reconciliation bill.
[00:03:02]  Also, to give us his first-hand report on the status of the Liberation Day tariff negotiations in which he has been a leader in terms of implementing President Trump's strategy.
[00:03:16]  So you're not going to want to miss our upcoming interview with Secretary of Defense Scott Besson.
[00:03:22]  I think he may be the greatest Secretary of Defense since Alexander Hamilton.
[00:03:27]  And well, we all know he founded the New York Post.
[00:03:31]  Meanwhile, for those who said that Trump's economic policies would be a disaster, gas prices heading into Memorial Day weekend will hit a four-year low as millions of Americans prepare to hit the road for the holidays.
[00:03:46]  When adjusting for inflation, the average U.S. retail gasoline price going down before Memorial Day weekend are 14% lower than last year, in large part because of falling crude oil prices, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
[00:04:04]  So on Monday, for example, the retail price of regular gasoline in the United States averaged $3.17 per gallon.
[00:04:14]  That's 11% lower than it was on the same day one year ago.
[00:04:20]  This is a massive change as for the last 10 years, retail gasoline prices increased 19% or 49 cents per gallon on average from January to May, excluding the year 2020.
[00:04:34]  Gas prices typically increase heading into the spring and summer months due to factors such as increased demand for summer travel and refineries switching over to summer gasoline blends, which are frankly more expensive to refine and produce.
[00:04:51]  I saw that Lipo Oil Associates President Andy Lippo said that gas prices are expected to remain between $3.25 and $3.50 per gallon this summer, which is well, well below last year's levels.
[00:05:07]  He attributed this drop in costs in part to tariffs that are contributing to putting pressure on oil prices on the expectations of slower growth, coupled with optimism from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, also known as OPEC, and its allies.
[00:05:27]  That group estimates that the global oil demand will grow by 1.3 million barrels per day in both 2025 and 2026.
[00:05:38]  What was it?
[00:05:39]  President Trump said, drill, baby, drill.
[00:05:43]  And that is exactly what we're doing.
[00:05:45]  See, Donald Trump has always understood that lower energy prices were the cornerstone to building a boom economy.
[00:05:52]  Some of his critics try to pretend that tariffs are his only economic strategy.
[00:05:57]  That is far from the truth, as we will hear from Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besson, who joins us shortly here in the Stone Zone.
[00:06:06]  Meanwhile, OPEC, that's the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, has also announced a 41,000 411,000 barrel per day oil production increase for June after increasing production in both April and May.
[00:06:25]  I read where Phil Flynn, Futures Group senior analyst, says that OPEC wants to keep President Trump happy and they are clearly doing that.
[00:06:35]  And the result is lower gas prices for every American consumer.
[00:06:41]  Promises made, promises kept.
[00:06:44]  Meanwhile, the farmers are also happy.
[00:06:47]  The American Farm Bureau Federation president, Zippy Duval, I love any guy named Zippy, said yesterday that the House passage of the reconciliation bill was great for America's farmers.
[00:06:59]  The Farm Bureau said they applaud the House passage of H.R. 1, which modernizes farm bill programs and extends and improves critical tax provisions that benefit America's small farmers and ranchers.
[00:07:12]  Updated reference prices will provide more certainty for farmers struggling through tough economic times.
[00:07:19]  Making business tax deductions permanent and continuing current estate tax exemptions will ensure that thousands of farmers will be able to pass their farms on to the next generation.
[00:07:33]  We urge the Senate to work together and swiftly pass this legislation to deliver the much needed relief to America's farmers and ranchers.
[00:07:42]  Happy farmers means more food production.
[00:07:46]  More food production, of course, means lower food prices.
[00:07:51]  This one big beautiful bill, as President Trump has called it, passed yesterday.
[00:07:55]  And as he said, it is probably the most significant piece of legislation that we will ever see signed.
[00:08:02]  Yet his credits are still out there with the same old disinformation.
[00:08:06]  I saw Robert Reich, he was the labor secretary under President Bill Clinton.
[00:08:12]  I actually went to high school with him, John Jay High School in Katona, New York.
[00:08:17]  He was wrong then.
[00:08:18]  He is wrong now.
[00:08:20]  He claims that the massive deficits that the country has and inflation, which is frankly manageably low, are created by cutting taxes on the working families of America.
[00:08:35]  But the truth is that every time in our history that we have cut taxes across the board, whether it was under President Donald Trump in his first term, whether it was under President Ronald Reagan, or whether it was under President John F. Kennedy, there's been a sharp spike in government revenues.
[00:08:54]  No, inflation and the deficit are caused by profligate spending, and we have to get spending under control.
[00:09:02]  This is one of the questions we're going to ask Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessant when he joins us shortly here in the Stone Zone, because getting spending under control is one of the three legs of the economic program laid out by President Donald Trump.
[00:09:20]  Meanwhile, the president has yet again threatened a 25% tariff on iPhones and a 50% tariff on European Union goods.
[00:09:31]  The president threatened to impose these fresh tariffs on both Apple and the EU.
[00:09:37]  On True Social, President Trump wrote, the European Union, which was formed for the primary purpose of taking advantage of the United States on trade, has been very difficult to deal with.
[00:09:48]  Their powerful trade barriers, their VAT taxes, their ridiculous corporate penalties, their non-monetary trade barriers, their monetary manipulations, which are both unfair and unjustified,
[00:10:03]  plus the lawsuits against many American companies and more, have led to a trade deficit with the United States of more than $250 trillion a year, a number which is totally and completely unacceptable.
[00:10:18]  Our discussions with them are going nowhere, unfortunately.
[00:10:22]  Therefore, I'm recommending a straight 50% tariff on the European Union starting on June 1st of this year.
[00:10:30]  There is no tariff if the product is built or manufactured in the United States.
[00:10:34]  Thank you very much for your attention to this matter, said the president.
[00:10:39]  Look, I've known Donald Trump for almost 50 years.
[00:10:43]  I don't think he is actually a lover of tariffs, but he does understand that they are a cudgel that can be used to get our trading partners to reach agreement so that we have free and fair trade deals that benefit both trading partners.
[00:11:01]  All the way back in the 80s, Donald Trump was one of the few voices who denounced the North American Trade Agreement or NAFTA, later the TPP, these one-size-fits-all trade agreements, which don't necessarily work to the benefit of the United States.
[00:11:19]  As I think Secretary Bessett will tell you in our upcoming interview, different countries have different interests.
[00:11:26]  Some countries are interested in importing cars.
[00:11:28]  Others are interested in providing wine.
[00:11:30]  Others are interested in reporting agricultural goods.
[00:11:36]  But the one-size-fits-all approach was rejected by Ross Perot, but really rejected by Donald Trump as early as the 1980s.
[00:11:47]  And now you see Trump doing what he has long advocated, individual tariff and trade negotiations with each one of our trading partners, rather than this one-size-fits-all formula that was used by Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
[00:12:05]  Trump administration is already set a 25% tariff on the imports of steel, aluminum, and cars, as well as a baseline 10% tariff on almost all countries with additional reciprocal tariffs, making for a combined 20% in the case of the European Union.
[00:12:23]  Lined-up negotiations during the current 90-day pause may fail, and that expires July 8th.
[00:12:32]  Unlike with Joe Biden, I think our European allies understand that Donald Trump means business, and they no longer are sitting across the table from a Patsy.
[00:12:44]  They're sitting across the table from the man who wrote the art of the deal, perhaps the greatest businessman in American business or political history.

=== U.S. Leads Crypto Onshore (15:46) ===

[00:12:55]  Take Donald Trump seriously.
[00:12:57]  He knows what he's doing.
[00:12:59]  We're already seeing the fruits of that.
[00:13:02]  You're going to want to stick with us here in the Stone Zone because coming up is our exclusive interview with Secretary Scott Bessett, Secretary of the Treasury.
[00:13:12]  He was known on Wall Street as one of the savviest traders.
[00:13:17]  He was regarded actually as the world's foremost macro hedge fund manager.
[00:13:22]  He's left all that behind to serve his country.
[00:13:24]  In my opinion, he is among the president's very best appointees.
[00:13:29]  He's also a great interview because he tells you the stone cold truth.
[00:13:35]  So we have him coming up shortly.
[00:13:37]  Meantime, we're still celebrating the largest tax cut in American history, and we're out there trying to extinguish a lot of the disinformation.
[00:13:47]  No, Donald Trump is not slashing Social Security benefits.
[00:13:51]  No, he is not cutting Medicaid benefits.
[00:13:54]  No, the big, beautiful bill passage is not going to cause a recession.
[00:14:00]  These are the same people who said, well, Donald Trump could never win.
[00:14:05]  They're the same people who lied us into war.
[00:14:08]  They're the same people who made up the Russian collusion hoax.
[00:14:11]  They're the same people who made up the Ukrainian impeachment hoax.
[00:14:17]  Those voices in the fake news media who are against anything Donald Trump is for.
[00:14:23]  Trump is proving that he delivers on what he says, he says what he means.
[00:14:29]  And we're going to be talking to the Secretary of the Treasury about it when we come right back into the Stone Zone minutes from now.
[00:14:37]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
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[00:15:08]  Take the next step at manhattan.edu slash graduate.
[00:15:12]  Manhattan University.
[00:15:14]  Lead the future.
[00:15:18]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:15:24]  Welcome back.
[00:15:25]  You are back in the Stone Zone.
[00:15:27]  We're preparing to be joined by Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besson, who's going to tell us about the status of the President's Liberation Day tariff negotiations.
[00:15:38]  He is fresh off talks with the Chinese.
[00:15:41]  I want to ask him about what kind of progress we're making there.
[00:15:44]  I also want to give him an opportunity to address the president's critics, who I think misrepresent the many great ramifications of the big dutiful bill.
[00:15:56]  So you're going to want to stick around for that.
[00:15:58]  Meanwhile, President Trump had a bold message for Apple CEO Tim Cook on Wednesday.
[00:16:06]  He said that bringing back manufacturing jobs in the United States is the cornerstone of his America First Agenda.
[00:16:13]  And the president called on Cook last week in Qatar saying that he had a little problem with the tech giant using facilities in India to make iPhones for sale in the United States.
[00:16:25]  We're going to ask Scott Besson about this because he said that the president is trying to light a fire under the European Union and the tech giant Apple to ensure that America is bringing production back to dominance for Apple.
[00:16:42]  I would hope that this would light a fire under the EU because, well, they have a collective action problem here.
[00:16:49]  It's 27 countries, but they're being represented by this one group in Brussels.
[00:16:54]  So some of the feedback that Scott Besson said he was getting from the underlying countries don't even know that the EU is negotiating on their behalf.
[00:17:04]  There are 18 important trade deals that we have to do.
[00:17:07]  Besson is working, claiming his focus has largely been on Asia, but he has a big job.
[00:17:14]  We're going to have a chance to ask him about it coming up.
[00:17:18]  In the meantime, it is also very sad to hear that my good friend, Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams, has announced that he has terminal cancer.
[00:17:31]  The cartoonist said that President Donald Trump personally reached out to him after he revealed his cancer diagnosis this past week.
[00:17:40]  Adams, who has appeared on this show, is a great guy, great patriot, very funny guy.
[00:17:47]  67 announced on his own live stream on Monday that he has metatastic prostate cancer, the same time that type of cancer that former President Joe Biden claims he was recently diagnosed with.
[00:18:02]  I do have questions about that because we played an audio here in the Stone Zone two nights ago of Joe Biden saying in 2022 that he had cancer.
[00:18:13]  Yet the statement put out by his office claimed that he only learned that he had cancer last Thursday and announced it on Friday.
[00:18:23]  In any event, please don't touch that dial because when we come back, Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besson is going to tell us how America's plan for a golden age under Donald Trump is coming.
[00:18:37]  An age, I think he's the one who coined that phrase actually.
[00:18:40]  An unprecedented age of peace, prosperity, security, and justice.
[00:18:44]  We'll be right back with Secretary Scott Besson.
[00:18:47]  Please don't go away.
[00:18:49]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:18:59]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:19:15]  This is the Stone Zone.
[00:19:17]  Now, give him a zone.
[00:19:19]  It's the Stone Zone.
[00:19:21]  Here's Roger Stone.
[00:19:24]  Welcome back in the Stone Zone.
[00:19:27]  I'm joined now by the 79th Secretary of the Treasury of the United States, Scott Bessett.
[00:19:34]  In his business career, Scott Bessett was widely recognized as one of the world's foremost macro hedge fund managers.
[00:19:42]  He's given that up to serve the American people.
[00:19:45]  Scott Besson is a free thinker, a libertarian, strong supporter of digital currency, but above all, he is a Trump loyalist who is playing a key role in implementing the president's strategy for the golden age.
[00:20:01]  Scott Besson, welcome to the Stone Zone.
[00:20:04]  Roger, it's great to be on.
[00:20:07]  We're very honored to have you.
[00:20:09]  There's so much I want to ask you, but let's start here.
[00:20:13]  How do you see the implications for the passage of the new budget reconciliation bill, also known as the Big Beautiful Bill?
[00:20:21]  I think it may be, I think it is, the largest single tax cut in American history.
[00:20:27]  The president's critics keep pointing to, oh, this is going to balloon the deficit.
[00:20:32]  They don't understand economic growth.
[00:20:34]  Tell us the implications from your point of view.
[00:20:38]  Yeah, Roger, this one big, beautiful bill is the most important piece of legislation that's going to pass this year.
[00:20:47]  The president's economic agenda is the three-legged stool.
[00:20:51]  It's trade, it's taxes, and it's deregulation.
[00:20:55]  And all I hear as Treasury Secretary, all I hear from people who don't like the tariffs is uncertainty, uncertainty, uncertainty.
[00:21:04]  But then the same people who complain about uncertainty about the tariff are trying to block this tax bill.
[00:21:13]  And I can tell you that the certainty that will come from this tax bill is a stimulus in and of itself.
[00:21:19]  And as you said, if you want to see a deficit blowout, don't pass this tax bill because the growth will collapse.
[00:21:30]  And this is the we're making the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act permanent.
[00:21:41]  We are putting in full expensing for equipment and machinery.
[00:21:47]  We're putting in full expensing for factory structures.
[00:21:51]  So not only is the U.S. the best place to have a factory, it's going to be the most tax-effective place to build one and furnish it out with equipment.
[00:22:04]  And then this bill also contains the president's campaign promises of no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime, and tax deductibility for auto loans for American-made cars.
[00:22:20]  And so, Roger, every Democrat who voted against this bill voted against a tax cut on Social Security, every single one of them.
[00:22:35]  Secretary, this morning I saw that you met with community bank leaders from both in and outside New York, as well as small business owners.
[00:22:44]  What did you hear from them?
[00:22:45]  And how is the Trump administration approaching small business overall?
[00:22:50]  One of the things I respect about you is you're a man who understands both Wall Street and Main Street.
[00:22:55]  I think this is particularly relevant at this time.
[00:23:00]  Roger, when you're from Little River, South Carolina, and then moved to Park Avenue, you understand Main Street and Wall Street.
[00:23:10]  And Wall Street's done great.
[00:23:12]  Now it's Main Street's turn to share in the prosperity.
[00:23:15]  Both can continue to, or both can do well.
[00:23:18]  It's not one or the other.
[00:23:20]  It's time for Main Street to play some catch-up.
[00:23:24]  And I think that one of the key elements for Main Street playing catch up are these small community banks, small town banks, or small regional banks that have just been throttled in their growth prospects and inability to serve their communities by all this excess regulation that we got coming out of the great financial crisis.
[00:23:49]  And I used to teach economic history, and the history is that when you have a crisis, there's always an overreaction.
[00:23:58]  And what these small bankers from mostly New York, but some from around the country have told me is that this regulation is killing them.
[00:24:08]  They want to go out.
[00:24:09]  They want to help their communities.
[00:24:11]  70% of agricultural lending is from small banks.
[00:24:18]  40% of small business lending.
[00:24:22]  And we've got to get these banks on their feet, healthy, and lending again.
[00:24:28]  And they're chomping at the bit to go.
[00:24:31]  They just need the right policies, which is what the Trump administration is trying to do.
[00:24:39]  The previous administration, as we know, was extraordinarily hostile to digital currency, cryptocurrency.
[00:24:46]  You have long been a proponent of it.
[00:24:49]  The president has embraced cryptocurrency as a vibrant industry in our country and an alternative monetary system.
[00:24:57]  Why is crypto, why is digital currency so important?
[00:25:05]  Well, Roger, it was even important as the Biden administration was trying to kill it.
[00:25:12]  What's important is for the U.S. to be the digital asset leader as we are the technological leader in every other aspect, whether it's AI or CRM solutions.
[00:25:27]  And it is important for the U.S. to be the leader because we will bring crypto and digital assets onshore.
[00:25:35]  We're going to have a thriving ecosystem here.
[00:25:41]  Everything from Bitcoin to stable coins and everything in between.
[00:25:45]  We're going to apply U.S. best regulatory practices, which is safe, sound, and smart.
[00:25:53]  And those will go out to the rest of the world.
[00:25:56]  These blow-ups that you see in the rest of the world, like Sam Bankman-Free down in the Bahamas, that wouldn't have happened if we'd been on shore in the U.S.
[00:26:07]  And the U.S. was getting left behind.
[00:26:11]  And fortunately, these companies and the crypto entrepreneurs persevered through what could have been an extinction phase the past four years.
[00:26:24]  And now it is a pleasure to work with them and set up the proper regulatory framework for the U.S. to take the lead and push this important.
[00:26:36]  It's such an interesting combination to me as somebody who has studied fiscal policy and monetary policy, and then you combine that with technology.
[00:26:47]  And the U.S. absolutely has to have the lead in this.
[00:26:51]  I think this is one of the most important and exciting things that the president is doing.
[00:26:56]  And you're absolutely right.
[00:26:59]  We need to be the world's leader.
[00:27:02]  You have in many ways been the point man for the Liberation Day tariff negotiations.
[00:27:07]  I saw that you were in Geneva meeting with the Chinese.
[00:27:11]  I saw some new announcements in that regard today.
[00:27:15]  I saw we had one down day in the market after the Liberation Day tariff negotiations, and then the market bounced back nicely.
[00:27:24]  What is the latest in our tariff negotiations, and how do you think we're doing?
[00:27:30]  I think we are doing very, very well.
[00:27:34]  And, Roger, you've known President Trump a lot longer than I have, but I can tell you the joy of working with him is that he has created maximum leverage for his trade team by pushing so hard on both our allies who have taken advantage of us and some of our adversaries or competitors,
[00:28:04]  trade competitors, military competitors like China.
[00:28:08]  He's pushed hard on both of them to bring them to the table.
[00:28:14]  Your listeners should understand that there are 18 important trading relationships, and we are pushing those first.
[00:28:24]  We reached a deal very quickly with our oldest ally, the U.K.
[00:28:29]  It's going to mean between $5, $10 billion of new trade for U.S. companies and ag products that is going to benefit the American people.

=== Rates And Debt (09:16) ===

[00:28:42]  We went to, we had had an unfortunate escalatory phase with China because on Liberation Day, we had said, do not escalate.
[00:28:53]  Come and bring us your offers.
[00:28:56]  And if you escalate, then we will raise the tariffs.
[00:29:00]  And the Chinese were the only ones who escalated.
[00:29:03]  We got up to, we were tariffing them at 145%.
[00:29:07]  They were tariffing us at 125%.
[00:29:10]  That created something akin to an embargo.
[00:29:14]  So we've got a 90-day pause here.
[00:29:17]  We both came down 115%.
[00:29:21]  We are at 30% for the 2025 tariffs.
[00:29:25]  They're at 10%.
[00:29:26]  But what's important to also remember, there were 20% tariffs on China from President Trump's first administration.
[00:29:34]  So we're really at 50%.
[00:29:37]  They're at 10%, which I think is a pretty good deal.
[00:29:40]  And they are negotiating hard, like they always do, but we have good leverage over them.
[00:29:49]  Because the important thing to remember, Roger, is we are the deficit country, that we have a trade deficit with China, the likes of which the world has never seen.
[00:30:02]  So if trade gets cut off with them, then we lose some products.
[00:30:10]  They are the surplus country.
[00:30:12]  If our trade gets cut off with them, I think that if we hadn't done some kind of a deal, they would have been laying off 10 or 20 million workers in the next few months.
[00:30:24]  I think I read someplace that your target for the 10-year Treasury note was in the range of 3.9%.
[00:30:33]  Do you still think that is a realistic yield?
[00:30:36]  And how do you feel about that today?
[00:30:40]  I do because, again, Roger, the mainstream media is working with the Democrats to try to blow up the president's economic agenda.
[00:30:53]  And I feel like I am just dodging these crazy arrows that they're shooting all the time.
[00:31:03]  And the better the agenda gets, the crazier the things they say get.
[00:31:08]  So Last week, bond yields went up, and they said, oh, it was because it was of the president's tax bill, and this is what's going to happen to deficits.
[00:31:20]  Well, you know what?
[00:31:21]  Bond yields went up around the world.
[00:31:24]  And the Japan yields went up much higher on a percentage basis.
[00:31:31]  Same in Germany.
[00:31:32]  And I think once we see that there is not an inflationary impulse from the tariffs, that energy prices continue coming down.
[00:31:44]  A cousin of mine called me, he was in Daytona Beach, and he said, great job, Mr. Secretary.
[00:31:51]  Gasoline is at $1.93 and diesel is at $3.
[00:31:55]  I said, well, you know, I wish I could take credit for it, but it's the market and it's the president's policy of energy independence.
[00:32:05]  And then other inflationary aspects, service inflation is coming down.
[00:32:11]  So I think once this kind of fear-mongering that we're going to have this big wave of inflation comes down, we will go back, Roger, to President Trump's something similar to President Trump's first term, where we had high levels of growth and it was non-inflationary.
[00:32:31]  And that is what creates the golden age.
[00:32:35]  Mr. Secretary, do you think that the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, should cut interest rates?
[00:32:43]  You know, Roger, I made the pledge when I was confirmed that I wouldn't talk about the mistakes that the Fed is going to make.
[00:32:55]  I would only talk about all the ones that they have made.
[00:32:59]  But I will.
[00:33:03]  I do think that inflation is under control, but growth is good.
[00:33:13]  Growth continues to surprise all the pundits and the naysayers.
[00:33:19]  The jobs numbers are strong.
[00:33:21]  The economic numbers are good.
[00:33:24]  So we'll see what happens with rates.
[00:33:28]  Yeah, the president has said he believes that the Fed should cut rates, so neither you nor I need to say it.
[00:33:35]  I think the president is absolutely right.
[00:33:38]  How close are we to a bank deregulation deal?
[00:33:41]  Would that not make it easier for banks to hold those treasury notes we spoke of?
[00:33:48]  Yes, I think we will get something over the summer.
[00:33:52]  There's a technical term called the supplementary leverage ratio.
[00:33:56]  And Roger, I began my career in Wall Street in 1984 as a banks and insurance analyst.
[00:34:04]  So I know how these beasts work from the inside and how bank regulation should work and could work.
[00:34:13]  And we are pushing to have this supplementary leverage ratio either reduced or removed.
[00:34:21]  And it will allow banks to buy more treasuries.
[00:34:26]  It's the craziest thing you've ever seen.
[00:34:28]  They're going to take a big capital charge for holding a risk-free asset.
[00:34:33]  So during COVID crisis, there was an emergency lifting of the supplementary leverage ratio, and it caused rates to go down tens of basis points.
[00:34:48]  So I think we could see anywhere from 30 to 60 basis point decrease in rates based on this over time.
[00:34:59]  That's very, very exciting.
[00:35:02]  The president had announced the creation of the sovereign wealth fund as the administration's priorities include paying down the national debt.
[00:35:10]  For the time being, they have paused those plans.
[00:35:13]  There's plenty on the president's plate and on yours.
[00:35:16]  At what point do you will you feel comfortable about getting that fund up and running and what types of investments do you think it would make?
[00:35:25]  Well, Roger, the president is moving at breakneck pace.
[00:35:32]  Nobody knows that better than you, but he's doing peace deals, trade deals, and tax deals.
[00:35:39]  And once those settle down, I would think that once we get over the hump and this deficit to GDP starts going down,
[00:35:53]  the total debt to GDP stabilizes and starts going down, and we are paying down debt, then the sovereign wealth fund will be on the table because I'd like to focus on this as a real legacy asset for the president.
[00:36:14]  Because what I have observed, and I'm a professor, what was a professor too of economic history as a side for my day job, President Trump is the first president in centuries who wants to create assets for the American people and not debt for the American people.
[00:36:37]  So I think if on the backside of the in excuse me in 26, 27, 28, we can stand up this sovereign wealth fund, it would be a great lasting legacy for a president who wanted to create assets.
[00:37:01]  And I could see a range of things being in it.
[00:37:04]  The president created the idea of this Ukraine economic partnership.
[00:37:11]  He's the first president not just to write blank checks for military aid.
[00:37:17]  I could see that going into this sovereign fund and sitting on the balance sheet there because Roger, this isn't the kind of thing that's going to produce big gains for the American taxpayer over the next couple of years.
[00:37:36]  But if this terrible war in Ukraine is able to end, which the president is pushing hard for, and Ukraine rebuilds successfully, and I think because of the partnership with the U.S., they will rebuild more successfully, this partnership could be worth in the hundreds of billions or over a trillion dollars.

=== Talking to Scott Bessett (02:00) ===

[00:37:58]  If you're just tuning in, folks, we're talking to Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessett.
[00:38:02]  You're in the Stone Zone and will be right back.
[00:38:06]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:38:16]  The Stone Zone on the Red Apple Podcast Network.
[00:38:22]  We really just have enough time left for me to thank my guest, Scott Bessett, the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States.
[00:38:30]  I've said it before, I'll say it again.
[00:38:32]  Perhaps the greatest Secretary of the Treasury since Alexander Hamilton, and the man who is helping President Donald Trump lead us to a golden age of peace, prosperity, security, justice, and law and order.
[00:38:44]  Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us today in the Stone Zone.
[00:38:49]  And for all of those out there in the Stone Zone, until we meet again, God bless you and Godspeed.
[00:38:56]  Thanks for listening to the Stone Zone with Roger Stone.
[00:39:00]  You can hear the Stone Zone with Roger Stone weeknights at 8 on 77 WABC.
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