The StoneZONE - Roger Stone - Justin Goodman | 05-02-25
Aired: 2025-05-03
Duration: 16:54


=== Animal Testing Controversies (15:06) ===

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[00:00:31]  And we're back in the Stone Zone.
[00:00:33]  Look, anybody who knows me or my wife knows that we are animal lovers.
[00:00:38]  In the course of our marriage, we have nine Yorkshire Terriers and one three-legged Wheaton Terrier who we got on the side of the road.
[00:00:49]  He'd been mangled by a car.
[00:00:52]  We tried to save his leg, but it had to be amputated.
[00:00:55]  It's amazing how he got along incredibly well on three legs, and he lived a long and full life as an adoptee in our household.
[00:01:06]  Some of the work that I'm proudest of during President Donald Trump's first term is when I worked as a volunteer with the White Coat Waste Project to end the inhumane and horrific so-called scientific taxpayer-funded experiments on dogs, cats, and other primates.
[00:01:30]  We made great strides during the first Trump presidency, and the president zeroed out funding for these horrific, unscientific, but chilling experiments.
[00:01:43]  But now it appears that some of it is back.
[00:01:46]  Joining me now, Justin Goodman, Senior Vice President for Advocacy and Public Policy at the White Coast Waste Project.
[00:01:54]  For more than 15 years, Justin has led winning grassroots and lobbying campaigns to expose and end the wasteful and cruel taxpayer-funded experiments on dogs, cats, primates, and other animals.
[00:02:09]  Justin, welcome back into the Stone Zone.
[00:02:12]  Roger, it's a pleasure to be here, and thank you for all your great advocacy for animals suffering in government labs.
[00:02:17]  We couldn't do this stuff without you.
[00:02:19]  Well, I really much appreciate your work, and I was happy to volunteer.
[00:02:24]  And I want to bring public attention to the issue again yet today.
[00:02:28]  While we did make great strides in the first Trump administration, and even in this administration, so for example, the Environmental Protection Agency, now run by former New York Congressman Lee Zeldon, announced that it would get the agency back on track and consistent with the 2019 Trump plan to eliminate animal testing.
[00:02:51]  Other places in the government, it seems that this is not happening.
[00:02:55]  First, let's talk about EPA.
[00:02:57]  This to me is very good news.
[00:03:00]  Yeah, absolutely, Roger.
[00:03:01]  You know, as you know, you were one of the people who helped get this historic policy in place back in 2019.
[00:03:07]  Andrew Wheeler, then the head of the EPA under Trump 45, announced a historic plan, first in the history of the government, that they were going to completely eliminate all animal testing by 2035, and they were going to make a 30% reduction by 2025, which is this year.
[00:03:24]  Andrew Wheeler and President Trump put the agency on track in 2019 to accomplish that.
[00:03:30]  Unfortunately, right after Andrew Wheeler and President Trump left the White House in 2021, the Biden administration, due to pressure from scientists inside the agency as well as environmental groups, got the Biden administration to kill the Trump plan to end animal testing at the EPA.
[00:03:53]  The environmental groups that were pressuring the Biden administration got them to do that, to remove the deadlines to end animal testing, and said they needed to do it in the name of environmental justice.
[00:04:04]  That we needed to do.
[00:04:05]  Not only did they want to completely eliminate Trump's plan, but they wanted the EPA to do more animal testing.
[00:04:12]  Again, in the name of environmental justice and other work priorities, like there's one example during the Biden administration where the EPA was shooting off handguns and rifles and forcing animals to breathe the firearms emissions for gun control experiments.
[00:04:26]  In other testing, they were putting rats in cages, feeding them unhealthy diets, and then heating up the cages to mimic climate change, allegedly, and then pump smoke, wildfire smoke, into the cages to mimic wildfires and climate change interacting on people who eat crappy food.
[00:04:47]  So the mind reels, but the Trump administration, one of the first things they did, and you and I have been advocating this since the beginning of the year, Lee's Elden's EPA committed to getting the agency back on track to eliminating animal testing.
[00:05:00]  So that's great news.
[00:05:02]  The EPA kills thousands and thousands of animals a year in these experiments, rabbits, dogs, other animals.
[00:05:08]  And this is going to save a lot of tax money and a lot of animals.
[00:05:10]  So that's good news for everyone.
[00:05:12]  But like you said, it hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows, unfortunately, over the first hundred days of the administration.
[00:05:18]  Yeah, I am still haunted by these images.
[00:05:21]  I'm sure people have seen them.
[00:05:23]  Where under Dr. Fauci, they would take beagles, they would encase the beagles' heads in this enclosure, and then they would pump in sand fleas that would literally eat the flesh on the faces and heads of these beagles.
[00:05:39]  Can you explain to me what the scientific value of that might be?
[00:05:44]  Yeah, of course, Roger.
[00:05:45]  So, yeah, you're referring to our landmark investigation in 2021 after we uncovered Fauci's funding for the Wuhan Lab, and we just celebrated the five-year anniversary of that investigation.
[00:05:56]  And President Trump famously going on TV during the coronavirus briefing in late April and saying, This is tremendous waste.
[00:06:03]  I was going to cut that grant.
[00:06:04]  And right there on the spot on TV, he cut the funding for the Wuhan lab after our investigation.
[00:06:09]  Thrilled about that.
[00:06:10]  The next big Fauci scandal that we uncovered was in 2021, where we uncovered these photographs of beagle puppies who'd been drugged and their head placed in these mess cages and allowed and they allowed biting flies to eat them alive.
[00:06:25]  And that was a project going on in a foreign country in Tunisia with U.S. taxpayer dollars.
[00:06:30]  And they were looking to, they were doing vaccine experiments on those dogs over there.
[00:06:36]  And unfortunately, you know, Fauci, even though he's gone from government, and I know you've talked about this on the show, we've talked about it on the show, you've written about it on your website.
[00:06:44]  Unfortunately, even though he's gone from government, a lot of the animal testing that he signed off on, put into emotion, put into motion and was personally involved in in some cases has continued under the new administration, under Trump, despite obviously the president and Secretary Kennedy's commitment to wipe Anthony Fauci's fingerprints from the federal government and fix the broken NIH that he left.
[00:07:13]  So again, there's good news at the EPA, but we are troubled by some of the things we're seeing at the NIH under its current director, Jay Bhattacharya.
[00:07:20]  Yeah, I saw these new records publicized by my friend Laura Loomer, but released by White Coast Waste that reveals that the National Institute of Health has extended funding for septic shock experiments where beagles are pumped with bacteria and then slowly killed without pain relief.
[00:07:38]  This is actually happening inside the NIH headquarters where the new director works, and they've renewed a $322,000 grant to Moderna billionaire Robert Langer's company to abuse dogs in weight loss drug tests.
[00:07:57]  Elon Musk himself said online that this needs to be investigated and stopped.
[00:08:04]  I could not agree more.
[00:08:06]  Now you add to the fact that the NIH and the Pentagon are continuing to pay a lab in China which tortures, I'm told, 300 beagles per week.
[00:08:18]  I really don't believe the president knows about any of this.
[00:08:21]  That's my own belief because he too is an animal lover.
[00:08:26]  And I see where you have appealed to the Secretary of Defense, as well as to the president, to end this horrific, cruel, weird experiments on dogs, cats, and other animals.
[00:08:40]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:08:41]  You know, we've been advocating since the end of last year.
[00:08:44]  I mean, since, you know, since the president was re-elected in November, we've been putting these issues at the top of our priority list for the new administration to cut funding for dog and cat testing across these agencies.
[00:08:54]  Like you said, we're still finding evidence not only of contracts, Biden-era contracts, Fauci contracts and grants that these guys literally signed off on and supported getting renewed now under the new NIH leadership.
[00:09:09]  But a lot of the projects have just continued.
[00:09:10]  But like, you know, Fauci established and has been funding an island off of South Carolina where there's 3,000 monkeys being held captive, and then a few hundred are shipped off the island every year for virus experiments in NIH labs.
[00:09:23]  The NIH just renewed the funding for that.
[00:09:25]  Obviously, you mentioned the other funding they've renewed.
[00:09:28]  They've cut some grants, but renewed some funding for these crazy transgender animal experiments that we uncovered.
[00:09:34]  And I think you're right.
[00:09:35]  I think that Secretary Hedgehog obviously doesn't know about this stuff.
[00:09:40]  I think now that Elon Musk weighed in today, both about the NIH and NDOD animal testing, saying that Doge needs to investigate, I think that the Secretary will take swift and decisive action to make sure dogs aren't being tortured in China with our tax dollars.
[00:09:57]  I mean, that's just, that's sick and dangerous and presents national security risks, obviously.
[00:10:05]  But I don't think he wants it happening here either.
[00:10:07]  And I think the president, you know, now that folks like you and Laura Loomer and Elon are getting involved and really making noise and speaking up about the fact that these Biden-era Fauci holdovers who are now in the NIH are actually signing off on continuing some of these wasteful and cruel and ridiculous projects that are costing taxpayers billions of dollars a year.
[00:10:30]  So, you know, Roger, you know better than I do about how to clean out the government.
[00:10:34]  And I think we really do need to clean house at NIH.
[00:10:38]  There are people who have been there for Obama years, Biden years, who are still running the show, signing off on these grants and keeping a lot of this waste going and keeping it alive.
[00:10:47]  And we really need folks in there who are willing to make what I consider, most people consider easy decisions.
[00:10:53]  We shouldn't be funding experiments in China on animals.
[00:10:56]  We shouldn't be torturing cats and dogs with taxpayer dollars.
[00:10:59]  These are things that people across the political spectrum can agree on, but there's deep state losers inside the NIH who want to keep this stuff going and keep their jobs, and we need to get them out of there.
[00:11:09]  Rural Americans deserve access to the best our nation has to offer, especially when it comes to health care.
[00:11:15]  Across every state and every community, America's rural hospitals are the first line of defense, protecting our families, neighbors, and loved ones.
[00:11:24]  No matter where you live, hospital care doesn't clock out.
[00:11:26]  They're there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
[00:11:31]  Each year, America's over 5,000 hospitals care for millions of patients, providing 24-7 emergency care, delivering babies, cancer treatments, and other life-saving care that patients rely on.
[00:11:43]  Behind every one of those patients are doctors, nurses, and caregivers working tirelessly to keep people healthy and safe.
[00:11:50]  Hospitals are our community's lifelines.
[00:11:52]  They employ our neighbors and keep our families health.
[00:11:56]  But now, some in Congress are threatening access to care.
[00:11:59]  Tell Congress, protect patient care to keep America strong.
[00:12:03]  Don't cut rural health care.
[00:12:06]  So, Justin, if people want to help in what I think is a really noble crusade, where can they go online and support your important work?
[00:12:16]  Thank you for that opportunity, Roger.
[00:12:18]  I would love if folks visited whitecoatwaste.org, that's our website, and to follow us on social and see all the activity today with you and Laura Loomer and Elon Musk on X on all social media platforms at Whitecoat Waste.
[00:12:32]  I was interested to see that this congressman from Michigan, Shree Thenadar, who sponsored a resolution to impeach President Donald Trump, not only does he have an $800,000 campaign debt, so I think his impeachment resolution is really more about raising money for his reelection, but in his prior career,
[00:12:59]  he actually ran a laboratory where they experimented on animals.
[00:13:02]  And essentially, he abandoned 118 beagles, as I understand it, just leaving them abandoned without food or water.
[00:13:14]  This boggles the mind.
[00:13:16]  Yeah, this, yeah, Roger, this is back in 2010.
[00:13:20]  I actually was involved in this case.
[00:13:22]  I was working at PETA back then.
[00:13:24]  I hadn't been there for a long time.
[00:13:25]  I've been at Whitecoat nearly a decade, but I was back there and the veterinarian from that laboratory called me.
[00:13:31]  And he was frantic and he said we just got word that they're shutting the lab down.
[00:13:37]  And the owner, who we now know is current, at the time, he was just the owner of the lab.
[00:13:42]  And now we know he's a congressman now, Shri Thanadar from Michigan, had left the animals there to die and washed his hands of the whole situation after the bank took over.
[00:13:51]  So this veterinarian wanted to save those animals.
[00:13:54]  He called me and said, what can you do?
[00:13:56]  And unfortunately, PETA at the time told me that they didn't want to do anything.
[00:14:00]  They were not going to get involved.
[00:14:02]  But I have lots of friends that's in the animal rescue space and was able to reach out to folks who do dog and cat rescue and who rescue primates and bring them to sanctuaries.
[00:14:11]  And they were able to save over 170 beagles and monkeys who were locked in Thanadar's lab at the time and were being left for dead.
[00:14:20]  And these are, you know, this type of laboratory, obviously his is shut down.
[00:14:24]  These laboratories exist because animal testing is big business.
[00:14:27]  The government spends $20 billion a year on animal testing of taxpayers' money.
[00:14:32]  And not only do we spend taxpayers' money on animal testing, the FDA and other agencies have forced companies to conduct animal testing against their will for new products, even though it's incredibly wasteful and unnecessary and very expensive.
[00:14:45]  And that's how labs like Thanadar's exist because of government funding and also government mandates on private industry.
[00:14:54]  So we've seen some good movement, obviously, like we said at the EPA with getting rid of some of these animal testing requirements for testing pesticides on dogs, for example, is something the EPA is currently doing, but hopefully will end soon.

=== Steps Toward Reducing Animal Testing (01:47) ===

[00:15:06]  And the FDA, Marty McCarry at the FDA, the commissioner, announced a big plan a couple weeks ago, a 10-page, I think it was like a 10-page plan they released outlining their priorities for reducing animal testing.
[00:15:21]  So that's all steps in the right direction.
[00:15:23]  NIH has cut some testing.
[00:15:26]  Doge has cut some testing at the NIH, but the NIH has not yet made any sweeping announcement about cutting animal testing.
[00:15:32]  And in fact, the only thing they have released is a plan for more spending and more bureaucracy that's not going to save animals.
[00:15:39]  So we're really trying to put some pressure on the NIH to do the right thing and end these programs that Fauci kept alive for 40 years and finally put them in the grave where they belong.
[00:15:50]  So other than going to your website, let's give our folks the website one more time.
[00:15:56]  It is whitecoatwaste.org and then on social media at whitecoat waste on all the platforms.
[00:16:02]  All right.
[00:16:03]  And if someone else, if they want to take additional action, what would you recommend?
[00:16:06]  Should they write the president?
[00:16:07]  Should they write the secret?
[00:16:08]  Who should they write to?
[00:16:10]  I think go on social media and tag the president, tag the head of the NIH, Jay Bhattacharya, at NIH, at POTUS, and just let these people know you want to see taxpayer funding cut for government animal experiments.
[00:16:25]  All right.
[00:16:25]  I want to thank our guest, Justin Goodman.
[00:16:28]  He is the Senior Vice President of Advocacy and Public Policy for the White Coast Waste Project.
[00:16:35]  Please, folks, give us a hand here.
[00:16:37]  Help us save the animals.
[00:16:39]  If you're looking to create, grow, and sustain your wealth, download and subscribe to the Pain Points of Wealth podcast at bebullish.com with Bob, Ryan, and Chris Payne.
[00:16:50]  It's your podcast for market insights, money tips, and real talk on the economy.