The StoneZONE - Roger Stone - Col. Douglas Macgregor | 04-15-25
Aired: 2025-04-16
Duration: 24:54


=== Passage and Arctic Rights (15:24) ===

[00:00:00]  Listen to this podcast now on the Red Apple Podcast Network, The Leadership Thread with Dr. Peggy Polonis.
[00:00:07]  I'm Dr. Peggy Polonis.
[00:00:08]  Join me on each episode where I unravel the story that shaped leaders, tracing the thread that led them where they are today.
[00:00:14]  Because leadership isn't born in adulthood.
[00:00:17]  Thank you once again for joining us on the leadership thread, education, ethics, and sustainability.
[00:00:23]  Download all of Red Apple Media's podcasts right now through your favorite podcast platform.
[00:00:37]  This is the Stone Zone with Roger Stone.
[00:00:41]  They went after a guy named Roger Stone who's sitting in the office.
[00:00:44]  And I'll say this to Trevor Rogers.
[00:00:46]  He's no baby.
[00:00:47]  And right now he's cleaner than anybody in this place.
[00:00:50]  Now they treated him very unfairly.
[00:00:53]  Now, get in the zone.
[00:00:55]  It's the Stone Zone.
[00:00:57]  Here's Roger Stone.
[00:00:59]  Welcome back into the Stone Zone here.
[00:01:02]  We talk politics, style, news, history, and occasionally food.
[00:01:09]  We call him like we see him.
[00:01:11]  We criticize Republicans and Democrats.
[00:01:13]  I'm an equal opportunity critic.
[00:01:16]  Today, I'm privileged to have as our guest Colonel Douglas McGregor.
[00:01:20]  He is a decorated combat veteran and author of five books, a PhD, and the defense and foreign policy expert that I respect perhaps more than any other in the country.
[00:01:32]  Doug McGregor was commissioned in the regular Army in 1976 after one year at VMI and four years at West Point.
[00:01:40]  In 2004, Colonel McGregor retired with the rank of colonel.
[00:01:44]  In 2020, the president appointed McGregor to serve as senior advisor to the Secretary of Defense, a post he held until President Trump left office.
[00:01:54]  He has a master's degree in comparative politics and a PhD in international relations from the University of Virginia.
[00:02:02]  Now, Colonel McGregor is widely known inside the United States, Europe, Israel, Russia, China, and Korea for both his outside-the-box thinking and his leadership in the Battle of 73 Easting, the U.S. Army's largest tank battle since World War II, as well as for his groundbreaking books on military transformation.
[00:02:25]  I was reading a book by Alexander Coburn, Nobody's Idea of a Conservative, and I came across this passage, describing Colonel Douglas McGregor as a gifted military theoretician who had led an armored squadron and fought a victorious tank battle in 1991 during Desert Storm.
[00:02:44]  McGregor had long brooded on what he considered the outmoded organization of Army combat units into 20,000 men divisions and proposed the divisions reorganizations into smaller, more flexible units capable of more agile deployment and maneuver.
[00:03:01]  Forthright in his judgments when he's speaking to superiors, unfortunately, McGregor has suffered the traditional fate of innovative military thinking, his radical and new ideas exciting fear and distrust among those at the highest level of our military.
[00:03:18]  I don't think there could be any greater compliment.
[00:03:22]  I'm going to bring him with us and then we're going to cut to a break.
[00:03:24]  But Colonel Douglas McGregor, thank you so much for joining us today in the Stone Zone.
[00:03:29]  Hey, Roger, thanks so much for including me.
[00:03:31]  I appreciate it.
[00:03:33]  We've got a lot to cover here, but the most important one, of course, is war and peace, what's happening in the Middle East, what's happening also between Ukraine and Russia.
[00:03:45]  Folks, you're in the Stone Zone.
[00:03:47]  We're about to talk to our guest, Colonel Douglas McGregor.
[00:03:50]  So don't go away.
[00:03:51]  We'll be right back.
[00:03:53]  If you're looking to create, grow, and sustain your wealth, download and subscribe to the Pain Points of Wealth podcast at bebullish.com with Bob, Ryan, and Chris Payne.
[00:04:04]  It's your podcast for market insights, money tips, and real talk on the economy.
[00:04:08]  Download and subscribe at bebullish.com.
[00:04:12]  This is the Stone Zone with Roger Stone.
[00:04:15]  All right, we're back in the Stone Zone.
[00:04:26]  Joining us once again, Colonel Douglas McGregor.
[00:04:30]  This is the distinguished officer that I respect perhaps more than any other in the country when it comes to matters of geopolitical defense and national security, but also one who understands the politics and its limitations.
[00:04:44]  Colonel McGregor, the other night you texted me an interview with Secretary Pete Hegseth, who I like.
[00:04:53]  Take nothing away from him.
[00:04:55]  But he says that we, the United States, are ready to launch powerful strikes deep within Iran if negotiations break down.
[00:05:03]  I tend to agree with my colleague Tucker Carlson.
[00:05:06]  I think war with Iran would be a horrific mistake.
[00:05:10]  So what did you mean when you sent me this interview?
[00:05:15]  Well, I think a couple of things.
[00:05:16]  First, you know, and I think you would agree with this, to President Trump's instincts on a whole range of policy issues, not just born and defense, but many policy issues are very, very good.
[00:05:31]  And one of my frustrations with President Trump in the past has been his failure to follow his own instincts and right in his White House with large numbers of people who are hell-bent to go to war with Iran.
[00:05:45]  And they seem to think that threats and bullying tactics are somehow or another helpful.
[00:05:52]  And I don't think they are.
[00:05:53]  When you're negotiating with someone, frankly, Roger, it pays to say as little as possible.
[00:06:01]  And once the negotiation is completed, you reach some sort of decision, good, bad, or otherwise, then you can talk about it.
[00:06:10]  But I think President Trump wants very much to reach an accommodation with Iran.
[00:06:16]  So I would refrain from saying anything at this point that is belligerent or threatening because it simply drives away the people that you're trying to bring on board.
[00:06:27]  And that's a difficult thing to do right now because we're asking the Iranians to accept life in a region where only Israel has nuclear weapons.
[00:06:38]  And that's a hard pill to swallow for them and I think for large numbers of other people in the region because they don't trust the Israelis.
[00:06:45]  Now, whether or not that appeals to us is irrelevant.
[00:06:48]  The point is, under those circumstances, Witkoff and President Trump have a very difficult challenge.
[00:06:55]  And I hope that what Mr. Witkoff has said about events turns out to be the case.
[00:07:01]  And he is cautiously optimistic.
[00:07:04]  So whatever we can do to be supportive of a positive outcome of an accommodation, we should support that and encourage, I think, President Trump to listen to his own instincts, because if he does, we'll be successful.
[00:07:21]  For those listening to this interview with Colonel Douglas McGregor, you can follow him at ourcountryyourchoice.com.
[00:07:30]  I strongly urge you to do that.
[00:07:33]  Look, I always thought, and I could be wrong about this, that the sanctions that President Trump put on the Iranians during his first term seemed to me to be terribly successful.
[00:07:44]  I mean, it's an oil-rich country, but they were not even able to sell their oil to their Chinese patrons under those circumstances.
[00:07:53]  Therefore, it occurred to me that when Joe Biden and his administration unfroze over $190 billion of wealth to go to the Iranians, then it was inevitable that they would not only restart their nuclear weapons development program, but they would also begin to fund Islamic terrorism again, leading to the attacks on October 7th.
[00:08:18]  Could sanctions be effective or successful yet again in the new administration?
[00:08:26]  No, I think the sanctions of the past have been much less effective than people in Washington think.
[00:08:34]  The truth is that we have overused sanctions to the point where everyone has found workarounds.
[00:08:41]  I mean, one of the things that we need to keep in mind, especially about the Chinese and the Iranians, is that the Chinese in particular have built alternatives to reliance on the movement of oil and gas via the straits of Hormuz by sea to China.
[00:08:57]  In fact, the Belt and Road initiative is very much a part of creating a system of cross-continental trade and commerce that we with our Navy cannot interrupt or disrupt.
[00:09:11]  And the other thing is that, and this is the problem with our tariffs and so forth, over the last five years, the world has changed.
[00:09:18]  The Chinese have developed new markets.
[00:09:21]  The Chinese have developed new supply chains.
[00:09:24]  In other words, at some point, your sanctions are counterproductive.
[00:09:29]  I think the president understands that, which is one of the reasons that he's folding pretty quickly on the tariffs that he's imposed.
[00:09:36]  He's now said clearly the automotive industry needs the trade, and he's pulling back on those tariffs.
[00:09:44]  I think we're going to see that with all forms of electronics coming out of China, Japan, Korea.
[00:09:50]  So I think President Trump understands that.
[00:09:52]  I just don't think he's being well advised on these things.
[00:09:54]  And I don't think that we will get further by threatening and bullying.
[00:09:58]  I think we'll get further with more accommodation and recognition that other countries have legitimate rights and interests.
[00:10:07]  We have had a bad habit, particularly with Biden.
[00:10:10]  I mean, his administration just cast any caution to the winds and treated anyone else's interests with complete disinterest.
[00:10:22]  Colonel McGregor is the CEO of ourcountry,ourchoice.com, ourcountry,ourchoice.com.
[00:10:28]  I want to get that.
[00:10:29]  I want to get that straight.
[00:10:32]  And look, I appreciate being corrected on the sanctions.
[00:10:36]  I'm a politico.
[00:10:38]  I'm not a military strategist, nor am I a world economist.
[00:10:42]  China seems to be cutting off the exports of rare earth minerals needing the production of automobiles, automo space, aerospace, and defense manufacturing.
[00:10:51]  I mean, what is the best way for America to respond to that?
[00:10:55]  Well, there's not much of a response.
[00:10:57]  I mean, the things that we sell most are things that China can easily replace.
[00:11:03]  Our biggest exports are agricultural products and energy.
[00:11:08]  And the only other thing that we export in great quantity is military equipment and bombs.
[00:11:13]  So someone put it recently in terms of the three Bs, bushels, barrels, and bombs.
[00:11:19]  That's what we export.
[00:11:21]  Well, the Chinese can replace the agricultural and the energy output very, very easily with all sorts of people all over the world.
[00:11:30]  So I don't think you're going to get very far.
[00:11:32]  On the other hand, we're very dependent on the Chinese for a lot of the micro-circuitry, the electronics.
[00:11:39]  You pointed to the rare earth.
[00:11:41]  And you know, this is something else that's depressing about us, Roger.
[00:11:45]  We should have built a rare earth refinery in North America a long time ago.
[00:11:51]  And right now, if you find rare earths, and I happen to be in this business at the moment, and you extract them successfully, and we have a lot of rare earths out there.
[00:12:00]  It's just that it hasn't been profitable to extract them.
[00:12:03]  Now it's becoming very profitable.
[00:12:06]  If you do that, you've got to send your rare earths to China or Kazakhstan, somewhere else on the other side of the world to have them refined into the materials that you need for your defense establishment and for every cell phone that you manufacture.
[00:12:23]  So I hope that if we learn anything from this, we need to build our own refineries and we need to invigorate this rare earth exploration and extraction in our country.
[00:12:34]  Probably the country with the most rare earths in the world, but they aren't tapped yet, is Canada.
[00:12:39]  They're just north of us.
[00:12:41]  So hopefully, we will have learned something from this whole business.
[00:12:44]  But right now, the Chinese are cutting off Boeing, cutting off purchasing any of our aircraft.
[00:12:51]  And everybody says, well, wait a minute now.
[00:12:53]  Where else are they going to get great aircraft like that?
[00:12:56]  Well, we no longer monopolize the aerospace industry the way we did.
[00:13:00]  I think this is something we don't seem to understand anymore, Roger.
[00:13:05]  We had a huge monopoly on all sorts of technologies back in 1990, 91, and that gave us an enormous strategic advantage.
[00:13:14]  That monopoly was eroded and then erased in the early part of this century.
[00:13:19]  So we no longer are in the same position we were.
[00:13:22]  That's not the end of the world.
[00:13:24]  It's not something that we should try to fight our way out of.
[00:13:26]  It's simply something we ought to recognize, and we can moderate some of our positions as a consequence.
[00:13:34]  President Trump seems steadfast in his desire to acquire Greenland.
[00:13:39]  He keeps saying that we need to do so to bolster our national defense and for national security purposes.
[00:13:45]  How would having Greenland help the United States protect itself?
[00:13:52]  I think that President Trump is approached by people, particularly in the Navy, who are quite concerned about the Arctic passage that has developed.
[00:14:03]  Because you can now cut your travel across continental travel down to a couple of days, three or four days, because you can send a ship between Greenland and Norway through the Arctic Passage on the north side of Canada and poof, they're on the other side of the world where China, Japan, Korea, and so forth are located.
[00:14:28]  And I think there has been a fear that we would end up in some sort of conflict in the Arctic over who controls what and who has passage and so forth.
[00:14:39]  And of course, the Navy has always been very bellicose and sees this as a justification for a larger surface fleet and warlike action.
[00:14:49]  And I think Greenland fits into that because the assumption is that from Greenland, you can control access to this passage.
[00:14:58]  I don't think we need to militarize this.
[00:15:01]  I think what is required and what the President ought to do is say to all the nations that border this Arctic passage, and that includes Russia and Norway, Canada, the United States, why don't we come up with an arrangement so that everybody has passage?
[00:15:20]  We know where you can go and where you can't.
[00:15:23]  And I think this would work.

=== Driving Wedge Between Russians and Chinese (03:49) ===

[00:15:24]  You've got another problem because there's so much in terms of rare earth as well as oil and gas products, energy products lying on the seabed.
[00:15:35]  Everyone wants to rush out there and extract all of this, which is not an easy process.
[00:15:39]  This is very cold water, tough environment.
[00:15:42]  You can't do that overnight.
[00:15:44]  We need to sit down and sort through this like adults.
[00:15:47]  This is not the time to figure out how we fight a war in a place like that, because the war will sabotage all the productivity and development that we're seeking.
[00:15:57]  So I don't think we need to control Greenland per se.
[00:16:00]  You know, Roger, the Danes have been good allies.
[00:16:03]  We've got along brilliantly with the Danes.
[00:16:06]  We already have a base in Greenland.
[00:16:09]  Why not just talk to the Danes because they have much to gain from all of this as well, since they too are a maritime power like the Norwegians and the British?
[00:16:20]  As you know, I am an acolyte of President Richard Nixon, who was my political mentor.
[00:16:27]  I think one of his great accomplishments was driving a wedge between the Russians and the Chinese, recognizing they had a long mutual border and centuries of distrust between the two countries.
[00:16:41]  I think it is how he secured the strategic arms limitation agreement with the Russians.
[00:16:46]  I think he's unfairly blamed for the threat that China poses to our country today.
[00:16:53]  The time that Richard Nixon brought them in out of the cold, they were a dirt-poor, backwards agrarian society with very little indoor plumbing, didn't even have electricity in the rural areas.
[00:17:04]  There was no way for Nixon to see that 30 years later, Bill Clinton would give them most favored nation trading status, and he would actually sell them in return for illegal campaign contributions some of our top military secrets in the morale scandal.
[00:17:19]  Can President Donald Trump be equally successful now?
[00:17:23]  Because Biden drove them together.
[00:17:25]  Can President Trump now be successful in driving them apart?
[00:17:30]  No.
[00:17:32]  The case was very different when Nixon was president.
[00:17:36]  First of all, the wedge already existed.
[00:17:39]  He had the good sense and the wisdom to recognize that it existed.
[00:17:43]  You remember back in the 50s, everyone saw communism as this monolithic force.
[00:17:48]  Well, Stalin used to refer to the red Chinese as red onions.
[00:17:54]  He said they're red on the outside, but inside they're really white.
[00:17:57]  And his meaning was the Chinese are really at heart capitalists.
[00:18:01]  Well, Stalin was right.
[00:18:03]  And I think Richard Nixon understood that.
[00:18:06]  And as far as China representing a threat to us, militarily, I absolutely reject that notion.
[00:18:13]  If you look at the Chinese military, I've seen it.
[00:18:16]  It's not postured for offensive warfare.
[00:18:19]  Everything is purely defensive.
[00:18:21]  And the Chinese are preeminently about business.
[00:18:23]  They don't start wars, don't want to start a war anywhere.
[00:18:27]  And if they and whenever they have had conflicts, they've lost them.
[00:18:32]  They've spent most of the last 500 years, roughly 340 of them, under foreign governments and foreign occupation.
[00:18:40]  I think that the Chinese are an economic power.
[00:18:43]  And we need to remember that for most of the last 2,000 years, China was the richest country in the world, although some of my friends in India argue that India was actually richer.
[00:18:55]  Be that as it may, when we were very poor and backward, China was a flourishing civilization and extremely wealthy.
[00:19:02]  I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, nor do I think it should.
[00:19:07]  I think we need to change our approach, but the notion that we are going to drive a wedge between the Russians and the Chinese is ludicrous.

=== Republic Platform Insights (04:49) ===

[00:19:14]  This is a marriage made in heaven.
[00:19:16]  The Russians have all the resources that the Chinese could possibly use, and the Russians still have superior military technology in many key categories, which they have willingly shared with the Chinese that have helped China immensely in terms of developing its defensive force posture.
[00:19:33]  I think we have to treat them with respect and understand that they have legitimate interests and that neither of those states want a war, least of all with us.
[00:19:46]  All right, we're going to have to leave it there.
[00:19:48]  I want to thank our guest, Colonel Douglas McGregor.
[00:19:52]  You can find him at ourcountryourchoice.com, also at Republic.
[00:19:58]  I want to thank you again for joining us in the segment.
[00:20:02]  I guess we'll be right back with just a little bit more of Doug McGregor.
[00:20:05]  I was a little premature there, but up next, keeping the live in a live with Debbie Nigro, sponsored by Native Path Collagen.
[00:20:17]  This is the Stone Zone with Roger Stone.
[00:20:28]  And you're back in the Stone Zone.
[00:20:31]  I just got some amazingly good news from my wife.
[00:20:35]  Late last week, my wife had what the doctors described as a cardiac event.
[00:20:42]  A completely incompetent cardiologist who attended her at the hospital to which she was taken by ambulance basically told her that her heart was pumping at 30%, that there was no explanation for this and nothing could be done for her, that she should go home and get her affairs in order.
[00:21:00]  Yes, it was pretty shocking.
[00:21:02]  I'm happy to say now having gone through multiple tests and seen a highly competent cardiologist, I can report that all of that was wrong.
[00:21:12]  And she's not only going to live, she's going to be fine.
[00:21:15]  So I apologize if I have been a little disjointed here, Colonel.
[00:21:19]  Tell us about Republic, this incredible online social media platform in which you have been active.
[00:21:28]  Well, listen, Roger, I think everybody in the future needs to get a second opinion, and that's really what you demonstrated.
[00:21:33]  I'm very happy to hear that.
[00:21:35]  That's your wife.
[00:21:37]  The Republic platform is a free speech platform that I think everyone should look at carefully.
[00:21:43]  And it's locally focused, but it covers the spectrum of news and events and people.
[00:21:49]  It's a place where you can find out who governs you and look at their decisions.
[00:21:54]  And it's a place where you can register your opinion and ultimately affect what happens at your level of life in your county inside your state, where you can contact any of the political leaders who are responsible for events in your state, all the way up to it, including the national level.
[00:22:11]  So I think Republic is something RE, and we say colon public, is well worth your time and effort to examine.
[00:22:22]  This is very much, I've signed up just because I think it is extraordinary.
[00:22:28]  I like the social media programs I'm in.
[00:22:30]  I mean, I really like X and what's being done there by Elon Musk.
[00:22:33]  But I think in terms of connecting you to like-minded people and with action in mind, I mean, legal action in mind, I really like the site.
[00:22:44]  Tell people again how they can go there.
[00:22:48]  Yeah, I think the easiest way to do it is to, you can go to re.docrepublic.com.
[00:22:58]  You'll find everything that Roger's describing, and I can't emphasize enough the accuracy of his statement, which is that this is a place where you can communicate across the country.
[00:23:09]  You will find like-minded people, and no one is going to censor you.
[00:23:13]  We've made that very clear.
[00:23:14]  Now, of course, we draw the line at vulgarity, and we're not going to support statements arguing for the overthrow of our own government.
[00:23:23]  But other than that, I think you've got pretty much free reign.
[00:23:28]  Nancy Pelosi can go on just like anybody else.
[00:23:31]  Let's put it that way.
[00:23:33]  All right.
[00:23:34]  Thank you very much.
[00:23:34]  We're going to wrap it there.
[00:23:35]  My great thanks to my good friend, Colonel Douglas McGregor, for joining us today.
[00:23:40]  And I thank all of you who have been tuned in.
[00:23:43]  Until we meet again, God bless you and Godspeed.
[00:23:58]  Americans deserve access to the best of what our nation has to offer, especially health care.

=== Hospitals Never Close (00:50) ===

[00:24:04]  Across every state and every community, America's rural hospitals are the first line of defense, protecting our families, neighbors, and loved ones.
[00:24:12]  No matter where you live, hospital care doesn't clock out.
[00:24:15]  They're there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
[00:24:21]  Each year, America's over 5,000 hospitals care for millions of patients, providing 24-7 emergency care, delivering babies, cancer treatments, and other life-saving care that patients rely on.
[00:24:33]  Behind every one of those patients are doctors, nurses, and caregivers working tirelessly to keep people healthy and safe.
[00:24:42]  Hospitals are our community's lifelines.
[00:24:44]  They employ our neighbors and keep our families healthy.
[00:24:47]  But now, some in Congress are threatening access to care.
[00:24:50]  Tell Congress, protect patient care to keep America strong.