June 3, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
56:18
Participants
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Do you play instruments? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Barely. | |
| Do you know how to work a soundboard? | ||
| No. | ||
| I have no technical ability. | ||
| So what are you being paid for? | ||
| the confidence that I have in my taste and my ability to express what I feel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
(upbeat music) | |
| I'm Dave Rubin. | ||
| This is The Rubin Report, and it's time for another Friday Roundtable extravaganza. | ||
| (upbeat music) | ||
| Joining me today, it's a very special show, are two women who actually have | ||
| their natural born genitals. | ||
| I've never intro'd a show like that before. | ||
| Joining me are Sage Steele of the Sage Steele Podcast and author of the new book, Swimming Against the Current, Fighting for Common Sense in a World That Has Lost Its Mind, Riley Gaines. | ||
| Sage, Riley, how's that for an intro? | ||
| You ever hear that one before? | ||
| I don't think that's, um, I've ever been intro'd like that, but there are definitely worse things that could have been said. | ||
| I know probably everyone, uh, here right now has been called them. | ||
| So, uh, I'll take it. | ||
| I was going to look down for a second to make sure you're accurate. | ||
| You're always accurate with everything you say, Dave Rubin. | ||
| We are very factual here on The Rubin Report. | ||
| All right, we're gonna dive into a bunch of the cultural stuff that we're all involved in all the time. | ||
| But before we do, everyone on my show knows Sage, of course, and Riley. | ||
| We play videos of you often, but somehow we have never done a show together. | ||
| I think we're doing something along form in a couple weeks. | ||
| But could you just real quick give the 101 on Riley Gaines and how you got into the fight? | ||
| Because I think it's interesting for people that don't know, and it'll help us kind of frame today's show. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Yeah, very thrilled to be on with you. | ||
| I feel like I know you. | ||
| I watch your show all the time, so very big fan over here. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| But yeah, I was a collegiate athlete. | ||
| I was a swimmer at the University of Kentucky. | ||
| Accomplished some really great things in my career, things that I will forever be proud of, despite What the senile old man Keith Olbermann says. | ||
| I very proudly finished my career as a 12-time NCAA All-American, five-time SEC champion, SEC record holder in the 200 butterfly, making me one of the fastest Americans of all time, Olympic trials, SEC scholar-athlete, SEC community service leader of the year. | ||
| But again, just to reiterate, it's a lifelong journey to compete at and be successful at the highest level. | ||
| But my senior year of college, We were forced to compete against a man, of course, Leah Thomas, Will Thomas, a mediocre man at that, ranking 554th in the nation when competing against the men the year prior to ultimately switching to the women's team and becoming a record smasher, winning a national title. | ||
| He and I raced in the 200 free at that national championships, which actually resulted, almost impossibly enough, in a tie, | ||
| meaning we went the exact same time down to the hundredth of a second. | ||
| But really what thrust me into the position that I'm in now and urging me to take the stand that I have was after tying, | ||
| we go behind the awards podium where the NCAA official looks at both Thomas and myself, | ||
| Thomas towering over me at a whopping 6'4", And this is great job you two, but you tied and we only have one trophy and we're going to give the trophy to Leah. | ||
| And when I asked, you know, why, why are you giving the trophy to the man and the women's 200 free? | ||
| Uh, he ultimately explained that they'd been advised as an organization that when photos are being taken, it's crucial that the trophies in Leah's hands. | ||
| So. | ||
| Ultimately reducing everything we had worked our entire lives for down to a photo op to validate the feelings and the identity of a man at the expense of our own. | ||
| That's when I realized I could no longer be silent. | ||
| Me being quiet about it, going along and participating in the farce was just as bad as the people who enforced and created these policies. | ||
| I realized if you aren't willing to condemn something, you condone it. | ||
| And now here we are. | ||
| And what a whirlwind it has been. | ||
| Yeah, we're going to get into that whirlwind in a moment. | ||
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| And now back to me. | ||
| Real quick, before we dive into the stories, I mean, when you hear that, and I know you know Riley's story already, as someone that comes out of the sports world, and as you said to me, you know, a month or so ago in this very studio, you accomplished your childhood dream of becoming an ESPN anchor. | ||
| The way that the sort of sports world has embraced this thing, does it ever, does it blow your mind anymore, or is it just all very obvious? | ||
| It does blow my mind, and it still is so upsetting to me Dave and I, I've met Riley in person. | ||
| She was on my show and we've communicated for about a year and a half since she really started her, her fight at another level, just, you know, publicly, et cetera. | ||
| And I get angry every time I hear her tell the story because I keep picturing my daughter in there asking an adult, the adult in the room, an official, wait, why does he get the trophy in the woman's race? | ||
| Um, the other thing that makes me mad is I think the lack of people in my position, frankly, who, um, they're, they're just silent. | ||
| Or whispering quietly and not using their platforms to make a stand. | ||
| And to stand up for women, which I always say this, and Riley does too, I mean, just because you're standing up for women does not mean you're anti-trans, anti-anything. | ||
| They exist, they need a space. | ||
| I absolutely support trans people participating in sports, just not at the expense of women. | ||
| The thing is, Riley, I mean, I'm more than twice Riley's age, and she is the reason why I decided to speak up on this topic in particular when I was still at ESPN and told not to speak on this topic. | ||
| But because I've supported women my whole life as a woman in a male-dominated industry, growing up in NFL and NBA locker rooms and sometimes feeling uncomfortable. | ||
| Most of the time, the guys were incredible to me. | ||
| But I know what it's like to be alone and to be scared and then to be afraid to speak up. | ||
| And I never wanted anybody else to feel the way I did for so many years. | ||
| So when Riley had the courage to do it, not only did I want to, you know, give her cheers and applause from afar. | ||
| I'm like, okay, how do we, how do we go deeper on this and trying to empower other women and men in my industry and outside to speak up? | ||
| Because if we don't, Riley said it, and another way of saying it, silence is compliance. | ||
| And if we don't continue to pound this home that it is just wrong, not just by opinion, but by science, then I do feel like that we are at fault. | ||
| We kind of have blood on our hands. | ||
| So I'm just grateful that she inspired people like me. | ||
| Well, I think people can see very obviously why I wanted you guys on together. | ||
| And yes, there is nothing wrong with saying that guys and girls are different. | ||
| It is okay. | ||
| It doesn't make one better or worse than the other. | ||
| Let's start with a tweet and a video that you put up, Riley, this week. | ||
| Because it illustrates, you're obviously talking about the swimming world, but this is happening across the sports world in every single sport. | ||
| Let me read this tweet and then we'll check the video. | ||
| In Washington and Oregon this past week, the fastest, quote, girl in each state has been a boy. | ||
| Veronica Garcia, otherwise known as Donovan Brown, just won the Washington State Championship in the girls 400 meter in total domination. | ||
| and uh... we're gonna through the video take a look at this the | ||
| the [BLANK_AUDIO] | ||
| Sage, let me start with you on this one, because watching that, and there are other versions of this where you see the male swimmer, they do a time lapse and it's just basically lapping the girls. | ||
| Watching that, it's just absurd. | ||
| I'm sorry, there's no other way to describe it. | ||
| It's absurd, and yet you have people cheering it on. | ||
| I mean, this is much bigger than just the organizations putting them out there. | ||
| It's culturally, everything's gone backwards. | ||
| That's the thing, and yes, Riley Swaim, I ran that race 150 years ago in high school, and it's hard, and I can't imagine having to do that against a boy. | ||
| I'm hoping that the cheers in the stands that we heard were cheers for all the girls who were running behind him. | ||
| There have been a couple of other videos, maybe that one if it went a little further, where at the end you do hear some boos, people calling him a cheater, and I feel like we're hearing more and more of that. | ||
| At the end of the day, Thank goodness Riley and so many other people, the International Women's Forum, etc. | ||
| So many people on social media continue to post them, tweet them, put them on all their social media platforms because we have been told so many times, well, it's just not that many. | ||
| And when you look at the numbers and the percentages, it's just why are we making such a big fuss? | ||
| It's only a couple here or there. | ||
| And a couple adds up to Hundreds and thousands. | ||
| And the thing is, there's a lot of non-reporting going on because people are scared to death. | ||
| And I understand the fear. | ||
| I've had these conversations. | ||
| I really do understand the fear because if you speak up, then what? | ||
| Then you're anti-trans, you're racist, you're all the things, all the isms, right? | ||
| And so I see why people get quiet and fearful. | ||
| But to what end? | ||
| You know, listen, I don't have a horse in this race. | ||
| My kids are grown up. | ||
| They're not competitive anymore. | ||
| It's just right and wrong and so we must continue to drive this point home and to show those videos of young men who are crushing women in women's competitions because they should, because we are made differently, biologically. | ||
| So I still get ticked off and we still got to keep putting it out there. | ||
| Yeah, and everyone knows the video of Serena Williams telling David Letterman about a decade ago that men and women's tennis is completely different things and that, I think she said, Andy Roddick would have beat her basically, you know, six love every single set that they played. | ||
| Riley, to Sage's point there, you must be hearing from girls every single day across the country and I'm guessing the world probably, right? | ||
| Every single day, which is why I so fiercely and so passionately want to defend Like Sage said, I'm done. | ||
| You couldn't pay me to get back in the pool. | ||
| I'd probably drown if I tried to swim. | ||
| Okay, like, let's be very clear. | ||
| This isn't about me, but it breaks my heart. | ||
| So many of those, that instance was in Washington State. | ||
| I mentioned in my tweet, we just saw another boy in Oregon win a state title. | ||
| Just last week, there was another boy in Long Jump, or excuse me, High Jump in New Hampshire that won the girls' high school state title. | ||
| Same thing in Connecticut. | ||
| It's happening all over. | ||
| But these girls who are competing against these boys, they reach out to me. | ||
| And they say, Riley, do we have to compete for second place? | ||
| Are we not worthy of calling ourselves champions? | ||
| We don't want to compete against this boy. | ||
| And it breaks my heart. | ||
| I think I would be remiss if I didn't say let's acknowledge the real state champion in Washington, Lauren Matthew, and the real state champion in Oregon, Astor Jones. | ||
| Those are who the state champions are, not these less than average boys. | ||
| And it's the same story every single time. | ||
| Like I said, boys who would not even remotely compete at the same level, that boy in that video, | ||
| he wouldn't have even finished top 16 in competing in this rightful category of the boys. | ||
| By two and a half seconds, the 16th place finisher was two and a half seconds faster than what he ran. | ||
| But he's a record smasher in competing against the women. | ||
| We don't see this happening the other way. | ||
| We don't see women entering into men's sports and dominating there. | ||
| It's just not happening. | ||
| And it's not sexist to say that. | ||
| It's not bigotry to say that. | ||
| It's biology. | ||
| It's reality. | ||
| It's common sense. | ||
| It's science. | ||
| What happened to follow the science? | ||
| Suddenly that has been thrown out of the window. | ||
| You look at basketball, right? | ||
| The three-point line is different. | ||
| It's further back for men. | ||
| The sheer amount of layups in women's basketball when a player gets a fast break compared to a dunk when a male gets a fast break. | ||
| The size of the ball is even different. | ||
| Gymnastics, they have different events. | ||
| Golf, the tee-off spot is different. | ||
| Baseball versus softball, the size of the ball, it's underhand versus overhand, the length of the fence, the field is different. | ||
| These handicaps or categories, what have you, exist for a reason. | ||
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| And now back to me. | ||
| And you mentioned the science. | ||
| Well, let's go to scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson, who had something interesting to say about how men and women competition could change in, say, a hundred years. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is a little weird that we split people by male and female in this way. | |
| I'm imagining a hundred years from now, looking back and saying, do you know, back a hundred years ago, they split boys and girls and they couldn't compete. | ||
| And I was like, that'd just be kind of a little weird. | ||
| I don't know, Neil, because I can imagine thinking how weird that is. | ||
| I could imagine that too. | ||
| But the differences are so massive. | ||
| On average, again, I've seen the pictures of you as a college wrestler, but the average woman is not going to be able to take down you when you were in your peak. | ||
| Maybe the best female. | ||
| You sound like you're an old man on the porch in a rocking chair right now. | ||
| I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you are criticizing something that is in need of modification. | ||
| Sage, watching Neil deGrasse Tyson go woke, I mean, we watch a certain set of people go woke, but it's just so dismissive. | ||
| And also the way he dismissed my friend Michael Shermer there, as if he's just, you know, in essence, you're an old white guy, like kind of sit this one out. | ||
| Yeah, pretty much. | ||
| But the only way in a hundred years we would look back and think it's archaic to have boys and girls competing separately is if we've drugged all of the girls, basically. | ||
| That doesn't seem like a good outcome. | ||
| Although, goodness gracious, at this point I'm fearful that somebody might think that that's a good idea. | ||
| These people are too smart to even believe what they're saying. | ||
| Like they must be getting checks from somebody to say that crap because they know that it's a lie. | ||
| And it is, I mean, I guess we just have to chalk it up to going woke. | ||
| And I do kind of liken it to the vaccine stuff, right? | ||
| And when everybody was saying, no, no, no, just do this and trust. | ||
| And we went like sheep. | ||
| And so I think with this, it's actually probably even more obvious. | ||
| And people are like, no, we're gonna stop on this. | ||
| I live right next door. | ||
| The neighboring town here is the town where Chelsea Mitchell is from, and I know Riley knows Chelsea. | ||
| I feel like she was one of the first young women who was really out in the forefront fighting, and she's a young track star from small-town Connecticut. | ||
| My daughter competed against her, with her, I should say, on the same team in high school, and I feel like that's one of the first cases that went really national, and she was, you know, all of a sudden, she was state champ in a couple of events and all of a sudden was second place when a boy decided to become a girl, to say he's a girl, excuse me. | ||
| and compete against her. | ||
| And she lost it all. | ||
| She lost in Connecticut, went to the Supreme Court. | ||
| I believe the court case is still active at some level. | ||
| And I think my biggest concern is, you know, screw those scientists. | ||
| Like, stop it. | ||
| Because we know they're lying through their teeth. | ||
| What I don't want is there to continue to be more pressure on these young women to take stands. | ||
| Yes, we need to encourage them. | ||
| And Riley has some interesting things that she's doing with that to take a stand and say, no, we're not going to compete. | ||
| We've seen it. | ||
| start to pop up across the country where young women say we're not going to do it. But most | ||
| importantly is where are the adults in the room? Where are the coaches? Where are the administrators? | ||
| Where are the parents to stand up and say this is wrong, this is not going to happen? Because I | ||
| believe if more and more people do that, the adults, and not forcing these kids in many cases, | ||
| to make such difficult decisions when their dreams are right here. | ||
| Riley experienced that. | ||
| I know Riley said in the past that she kind of has guilt from that national championship for competing, right? | ||
| But that shouldn't have been left up to Riley. | ||
| That needs to be left up to the adults to say, hell no, we're not doing this. | ||
| Here's the science, guys. | ||
| Yeah, Riley, can you speak to that a little bit? | ||
| Because it's not, to put this all on the girls to have to, you know, these young girls to have to make the decision either to protest or boycott or whatever it might be when it's like, where are the adults? | ||
| Can you talk about just sort of how the mind virus spreads and then just causes silence across administrations and all that? | ||
| A hundred percent. | ||
| I'll speak to what we faced. | ||
| We had to go to training, sensitivity training, where they brought in an outside professional and taught us how to use she, her pronouns. | ||
| Me, a 21-year-old senior in college at the time. | ||
| And if we didn't adhere, if we didn't complete the training to their standard, we had to re-go through the training until they were satisfied. | ||
| We were told that you will never get a job. | ||
| You know, your employer is going to look up your name and see that you're a transphobe. | ||
| If you speak out, and you don't want that, do you? | ||
| You know, you're never gonna get into grad school, and Riley, don't you wanna be a dentist? | ||
| You'll never be a dentist if you speak out about this. | ||
| They said you'll lose your friends, you'll lose your scholarship and your playing time, and oh yeah, Riley, speaking of that scholarship, remember you signed that. | ||
| And when you signed that scholarship, you gave away your rights to speak in your own personal capacity. | ||
| Remember who you represent, because it's not you, whose name is across your chest and across your cap, it's ours, and understand we have already taken your stance for you. | ||
| They went as far to tell us that we had to seek re-education. | ||
| That's literally the verbiage that they used from LGBTQ education centers on campuses. | ||
| If we weren't okay with seeing male genitalia, we needed to make ourselves okay with this. | ||
| We were told that we were the problem. | ||
| We were told that we would have blood on our hands. | ||
| We were equivalent to murderers. | ||
| If we spoke out about this and any harm whatsoever were to come towards Thomas's or anyone like Thomas's way, whether it was physical harm, emotional harm, self-inflicted for that matter. | ||
| But it's effective. | ||
| It's effective when you're talking to a bunch of 18, 19, 20-year-old girls, telling them that they're going to be murderers if they advocate for fair play and privacy in areas of undressing. | ||
| It works. | ||
| So let's be very clear. | ||
| When I speak, When I share our experiences at that national championships, I am speaking for the overwhelming majority of us. | ||
| Because I can attest to the tears that I saw. | ||
| I can attest to the extreme discomfort in the locker room. | ||
| I can attest to the whispers of anger and frustration that I heard from those girls. | ||
| But understandably, they're terrified. | ||
| And very quickly about Neil deGrasse Tyson here. | ||
| I think it's so hilarious that the minute he gets any amount of rational pushback, Michael Sherman saying, hey, well, don't you think that you could beat a girl? | ||
| He says, hey, well, you're just an old man in a rocking chair. | ||
| Come back. | ||
| And, you know, to basically advocate for the elimination of categories, I would want to ask Mr. Tyson, OK, do you support The Paralympics versus the Olympics, or should we eliminate those categories too? | ||
| The premise of this, and again, I know why Sage and myself, and I'm sure you, Dave, why we care so much, if we are willing to deny the most basic of truths, the most basic of truths, something we've never struggled to understand in the nearly 250 years we've been established as a country, but of course, much longer than that, that being man and woman, then there are no limits. | ||
| Will they ask us to deny age next? | ||
| It sounds silly. | ||
| It sounds so outlandish. | ||
| It sounds insane. | ||
| But if you would have asked us 10 years ago, if we'd be here now, you would say it's insane. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So I think we need to- - Right, the whole point is there wasn't a WNBA 20 years | ||
| ago. | ||
| I think it started around 1995 or something like that, so about 30 years ago at this point. | ||
| There wasn't a WNBA, and then they realized, oh, women would like to play professionally. | ||
| Let's create one. | ||
| If we only have one league, which seems to be what Neil deGrasse Tyson wants, then congratulations, there will be No women in it. | ||
| I want to throw to you this video. | ||
| I'm sure you guys have seen this. | ||
| It goes viral all the time. | ||
| South Park nailed this thing like seven years ago, and if we could have just followed South Park, I think it would have probably saved both of you a little bit of pain online, let's say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In Argentina, Alba Ruada is a transgender woman who was kicked out of classrooms, barred for sitting for exams, refused job opportunities, subjected to violence, and rejected by her family. | |
| But in the face of these challenges, she worked to end violence and discrimination against the LGBTQI+ community | ||
| in Argentina. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it correct you just started identifying as female two weeks ago? | |
| Sage, I feel like you're up in Connecticut. | ||
| The WWE is up in Connecticut. | ||
| Did you ever cross paths with macho men? | ||
| I'm not even sure what question I should be asking you related to that, other than we should have just listened to them years ago. | ||
| You know, it just takes me back to my college years. | ||
| Probably before Riley, well, definitely before Riley was born. | ||
| Because South Park, that's what we all watched. | ||
| And we used to sit around and be like, okay, it's a cartoon. | ||
| It's fake. | ||
| It'll never happen. | ||
| And look, South Park has nailed it, unfortunately, with so many different things, but that's kind of what it feels like. | ||
| I mean, there's no difference between watching that animated clip and the clip that you showed a second ago with the kid on the track, you know what I mean? | ||
| Or anywhere else, or just the vision. | ||
| How about him on the podium? | ||
| Versus Riley on the podium, standing next to Will Thomas. | ||
| It's the exact same picture, it's just that Riley and others have had to live it in real life. | ||
| And I would say even three, four, five years ago, would never have dreamt of this kind of a conversation. | ||
| Thank goodness for the Dave Chappelle's of the world, by the way, and I love when he goes off about this and then compares it to, okay, so LeBron James. | ||
| He says tomorrow, I'm a woman, where he's gonna go in the WNBA and proceed to score 856 points a night. | ||
| Because that's exactly what's gonna happen just like the South Park clip. | ||
| Right, and by the way, Sage, as I said to you when I saw you here, it won't even be LeBron James. | ||
| What it's going to be is a 38-year-old washed-up guy who's averaging one point in the NBA, and he's gonna become the MVP of the WNBA. | ||
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unidentified
|
Visit gcu.edu slash Dave, and now back to me. | |
| Let me throw to one other South Park clip because this was really going viral this week. | ||
| It's on a slightly different topic as it relates to body image. | ||
| And well, just take a look. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Here we go. | |
| And you know what? | ||
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| Are you living with concerns of obesity? | ||
| Ask about the power of not giving a f*** with Lizzo! | ||
| That's crazy! | ||
| I just feel like, damn, I'm really that bitch. | ||
| I'm really that bitch. | ||
| I really showed the world how to love yourself and not give a f*** to the point where these Men in Colorado know who the f**k I am and put it on their cartoon that's been around for 25 years. | ||
| I'm Lilly That Bitch and I show y'all how to not give a f**k and I'm gonna keep on showing you how to not give a f**k. Oh, oh, oh, Lizzo, bitch! | ||
| All right, there's a little bit of everything there, but I think you can see why I wanted to show that after showing the Macho Man video, because South Park was 10 years ahead, let's say, on that, if not more. | ||
| And now we have something going on with this body positivity movement, and that somehow being fit is white supremacist or something like that. | ||
| Riley, you've spent a lot of time in sports and taking care of yourself and everything else. | ||
| And now we're seeing your generation, a huge amount of people, partly connected to Lizzo, pushing this idea that, you know, big is beautiful and all these TikTok videos of, you know, these big girls basically eating all day and showing you how to be fat in this world. | ||
| I mean, it just all sounds so ridiculous. | ||
| Because it is ridiculous. | ||
| I will just briefly say South Park is a representation of All of our intrusive thoughts. | ||
| I'm glad that after all of these years, South Park has certainly remained South Park. | ||
| And again, just very briefly, after watching this episode, do you know the amount of Ozympic ads that I had popping up on every platform? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh my god. | |
| Ozympic in Giorno or whatever it's called. | ||
| It was so crazy to me. | ||
| But look, I'll say I'm glad she took it with a grain of salt. | ||
| Uh, I think she took it as a compliment. | ||
| Uh, that was certainly my understanding. | ||
| How I took it was that was not intended to be a compliment, but yeah, we see the glorification daily of anything that is immoral, anything that is evil, anything that is unhealthy. | ||
| Um, we have, have seen this, I would say the past few years, but the mask is off now. | ||
| Which is really disheartening. | ||
| It's sad. | ||
| Why would anyone advocate for the demise and the destruction and the downfall of this country? | ||
| And that's what this is. | ||
| We hear of body positivity all the time. | ||
| We see it preached. | ||
| We see it in corporate America. | ||
| We see it in ads, what have you. | ||
| But there was a runway show, whatever it was. | ||
| I think it was RuPaul's drag show recently. | ||
| It was a video that went viral on X this past week. | ||
| And I was so stunned and I had this realization. | ||
| It's this guy walking down and he's got thick breast and a bag and there's hands coming down. | ||
| We'll play some video while you're talking about it. | ||
| So you can go ahead. | ||
| Dave, can I, can I, can I, Riley, I was going to say, can I jump, can I jump in real quick on, on the Lizzo part? | ||
| Because I think it's so interesting to your point, like, why are we doing this? | ||
| Why are they going down that road? | ||
| Um, and the body positivity and then your fat shaming me. | ||
| And again, my daughters are 18 and 22 and very much, you know, in that culture as far as everything on social media and then judging themselves. | ||
| And it is a super hard topic when you have daughters in particular. | ||
| Um, but I think it actually speaks to the big picture again of where we are right now in society and the fact that like they want to keep us unhealthy. | ||
| They want to keep our bodies unhealthy and therefore what dependent. | ||
| On Big Pharma, because you stay unhealthy, your body goes south, you think you need more drugs to help you, to fix you, like it all goes back to being dependent on Big Pharma, dependent on the government. | ||
| I was fortunate enough to see Lizzo in concert last year at Bottle Rock up in Napa, which is an incredible event. | ||
| I did not pay to see Lizzo, I'll put it that way. | ||
| I have some friends who helped me out to get in to see the other artists, and I'll just say Hashtag stay classy. | ||
| Stay classy Lizzo. | ||
| Like are you kidding me? | ||
| The way that she chose to take that South Park episode and that's how she's on stage too and turn around and look at my big old you know what and let's it's it makes me sad and I do sound like that that old man get off my lawn I really do cuz I'm like you know back in the 90s it wasn't like this the music wasn't like this it wasn't This is so intentional on so many levels. | ||
| So I'm glad she chose to take it that way, but she probably didn't. | ||
| But hey, let's get more clicks. | ||
| And I'm gonna be able to say bitch 10 more times, so why not? | ||
| Right, I don't even really mean to make it about her reaction as much as the sort of weird mirror thing that we have happening, which is on one hand, if you open Instagram, every girl has to look exactly perfect. | ||
| And then now there's the mirror of that, which is that every girl has to be obese. | ||
| So for the just relatively normal person, which is 95% of us or 99% of us, I would say particularly as it pertains to young girls, there's not much to see. | ||
| But let's jump over to something else because Brittany Griner, who is a basketball player, WNBA basketball player, who everyone knows, got arrested trying to leave Russia with some marijuana. | ||
| She happens to be black and she happens to be a lesbian. | ||
| She eventually did get out of Russia and she's on a bit of a speaking tour now talking about what happened to her. | ||
| And I just wanted people to listen to a portion of her talking to Joy Reid. | ||
| In that moment, as you're thinking, OK, I am going to be arrested, you write about your arrest, and you're told you're going to be taken to the Kim Kee Police Station. | ||
| It's a temporary detention center. | ||
| It's like a county jail. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| So now you know, OK, not only are they arresting me, but I'm really going to be taken to jail. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Did you think in that moment, I, Brittany Griner, am being taken to jail? | ||
| Or did you think in that moment, wait a minute, I am a black, Queer woman in a country in which I am a super minority and not necessarily an embraced minority. | ||
| And what in the world is that jail going to be like for me? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was terrified when I was thinking about going to that jail because I was like, what games are they going to play? | |
| And I soon found out one of the games on trying to tell me to go into one of the men's cells. | ||
| I'm like, I'm not going in that cell. | ||
| And then the other guard, you know, said something in Russian, shook his hand, and then they take me to the women's side, and I was just like, see, it's a game, you know? | ||
| And I knew all that was stacked against me. | ||
| There's so much here, because first off, I guess Joy Reid just admitted that being a black, queer woman in America isn't that bad. | ||
| That's sort of interesting, because that's not what she normally says. | ||
| And also, Joy is the same type of person that's constantly pushing for men to be in women's prisons. | ||
| So they're like blowing up their own stuff in real time. | ||
| Sage, what do you make of this? | ||
| The framing, really, in a weird way, this to me is more about Joy Reid than it's about Britney. | ||
| Yeah, but my bar is so low with Joy Reid, I guess that like, okay, nothing she says surprises me anymore. | ||
| It's an eye roll. | ||
| And that soundbite was another opportunity to roll my eyes at her because she intentionally wants to divide. | ||
| She's one of those people, women, I assume she called herself a woman, who knows, that literally is benefiting off of pulling the race card, playing the race card all the time. | ||
| There's too much money to be left on the table if you don't make something about racism in her world. | ||
| And it has worked Pretty well. | ||
| I think the whole, the many different layers you talk about with this. | ||
| I mean, the fact that this is still a story, Brittany Griner, as much as people don't like, many people don't like the reason why she was arrested and imprisoned. | ||
| She broke a law. | ||
| Even if you don't think it's a good law over in Russia, she broke the law. | ||
| She knowingly brought a marijuana pen, whatever it was, in her suitcase and crossing the border and into their country. | ||
| And that's illegal. | ||
| And she knew it. | ||
| She's been doing this for years going over there. | ||
| So she knew it, even though the law might suck. | ||
| you know it and there are consequences, especially in a place like Russia. So as much as I'm glad | ||
| that she's home, man, that was pretty costly for the United States as well. So there happens to | ||
| be repercussions when you break laws, especially laws that you know you should not. So between that, | ||
| between Joy, I'll change the channel. | ||
| I can't watch it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, to that point, Riley, I mean, it's sort of like, do you think Joy would have even cared if this had been Caitlin Clark? | ||
| I mean, she's a straight white woman. | ||
| She's quite a basketball player, but I don't know that that would have even mattered. | ||
| Look, these are the same people who are calling Caitlin Clarke problematic, right? | ||
| Joy Reid, Sonny Hostin, Jemele Hill. | ||
| How in the world are you going to call someone problematic when all she has done is sell out arenas, she has set TV viewership, she's brought millions of new eyes to college basketball and to the WNBA. | ||
| Problematic, it sounds like to me she is the problem solver. | ||
| Jemele Hill is a professional and lifelong race baiter. | ||
| I think of her at ESPN. | ||
| I remember her stating one time that rooting for the Celtics was like saying that Hitler was a victim because the Celtics are viewed as a white team. | ||
| She also said while at ESPN she labeled President Trump as a white supremacist. | ||
| I remember when she even called for a boycott of the Dallas Cowboys and their sponsors after Jerry Jones, the owner, demanded that his team would stand for the flag and for the national anthem. | ||
| So that's what these people are. | ||
| They're race baiters, let's put it point blank. | ||
| And to briefly touch on Caitlin Clarke, Caitlin Clarke has not received the attention and the celebration that she has because she is white, straight. | ||
| Sunny Hostin said it was because she had white privilege, straight privilege, pretty privilege, and tall privilege. | ||
| She said tall privilege. | ||
| Every WNBA basketball player is tall. | ||
| And I'm gonna be honest. | ||
| And because she's not a lesbian. | ||
| That was the line. | ||
| Oh, right. | ||
| That was literally the line, yeah. | ||
| That she's not a lesbian. | ||
| She hasn't received and garnered the support that she has because of being tall and pretty, and I'll just say I've never heard a guy called Caitlin Clarke pretty, besides the point. | ||
| It's because she's the greatest scorer in all of collegiate basketball, including... The three-point shooter, yeah. | ||
| Of course, of course it is. | ||
| So, again, I think we're just dealing with virtue-signaling, race-baiting sellouts, is what I would call people like Joy Reid. | ||
| Sage, let me just ask you one other thing on this and then we'll jump to the next topic, which is when you watch some of these clips of mainstream media people, now that you're on the other side of this and you're independent doing your own thing, I know we've talked about this a bit, but it must just feel so freeing for you to just not be in that world and then you're in a little box with us right now, but it's a much freer box. | ||
| Yeah, I will say I'm still getting used to it. | ||
| And sometimes I kind of look behind to make sure, like, Bob Iger isn't coming up to, like, throttle my neck. | ||
| Because, I mean, I was in corporate media for 28 years, my entire career. | ||
| And it isn't, as a journalist, your opinion doesn't matter. | ||
| And I think that's crucial. | ||
| I think that's important. | ||
| And I was totally fine living that way, as I should. | ||
| But privately, you have the conversations. | ||
| And then, unfortunately, Um, when it comes to just being honest and truthful, when you feel unable to do that while you're reporting the news and the facts, allegedly, that is, I felt so hamstrung and I wanted to, I wanted so desperately to just ad lib on TV and say certain things that I knew to be different from what I was being told to report. | ||
| And that broke my heart because I felt like at my core, I was dying as a journalist. | ||
| There were so many, so many great people at ESPN who wanted to do the right thing, but there was, there was a lot of fear. | ||
| And so it's been really cool just to be able to have conversations like this and to be able to, to, um, learn more openly in a public forum, because if we continue to do that, Dave, you keep doing this, Riley, you're doing it. | ||
| I'm trying to do it. | ||
| I mean, we are standing up for so many other people who are afraid to have the conversation. | ||
| So I do feel like. | ||
| Every single day that we talk about it, honestly, without the fear, we're making a difference. | ||
| Yeah, well that's why the type of person that I love talking to more than politicians or actors or whatever is what you guys both represent. | ||
| People that take a stand in their life that they didn't think they were gonna have to take, right? | ||
| Like Sage, your thing about that your dream was to be on ESPN and then you left ESPN. | ||
| And Riley, that your dream was to be a swimmer and then you now fight for other girls to accomplish your dream. | ||
| That is just way better than, okay, you know, how many people voted for this bill. | ||
| Let's jump over to one other thing that doesn't involve women for a second, and I think mostly involves all straight men, so people will have to take the segment as it is. | ||
| I wanna throw up a tweet from Stephen A. Smith. | ||
| We talk about him a bunch on the show, because he's kind of a lefty who's been getting red-pilled a bit. | ||
| We'll see where he lands. | ||
| But he put up an apology to Kyrie Irving. | ||
| He wrote, Kyrie, I apologize, and then he linked to a video. | ||
| And in essence, he is apologizing for guilting Kyrie because Kyrie very publicly during the height of COVID did not get vaxxed. | ||
| I also did not get vaxxed. | ||
| None of the people in this studio got vaxxed, just for the record. | ||
| And I want to now jump to a video. | ||
| This is a compilation video from TNT's Inside the NBA. | ||
| That's obviously with Barkley and Shaq and Kenny Smith and Ernie Johnson. | ||
| It's a back and forth video of what they were saying then during COVID about Kyrie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We've all realized now that the vaccine is a great seatbelt. | |
| It helps all of us stay alive for longer. | ||
| We realize that. | ||
| And there's been a constant change in his thought process about him by the mass media. | ||
| But we also realize that now that We could still spread the virus. | ||
| As a basketball player, you know, we're not talking about his political or social stances and looking at him in a negative view. | ||
| First of all, you don't get the vaccine for yourself, you get it for other people. | ||
| But I've said it to Stephen A, because at one time Stephen A was an advocate about having a battle with this guy. | ||
| He has to really consider getting the vaccine. | ||
| Kyrie Irving says the Nets injury situation won't change his vaccination status. | ||
| I've made my decision already and I'm standing on it. | ||
| I would hope he would change his mind. | ||
| He self-inflicted himself. | ||
| He gotta take some responsibility. | ||
| I think he's grown up. | ||
| I think he's matured. | ||
| Stephen A. and other people criticized him and he rightly deserved it. | ||
| You don't get vaccinated just for yourself. | ||
| Like Adam said, you get vaccinated for your family first, you get vaccinated for your teammates second, things like that. | ||
| That's what bothers me about this whole thing. | ||
| I think everybody should get vaccinated. | ||
| You know, you can do the vaccine thing, that's your own thing, but he deserved the criticism he got. | ||
| It's all about sacrifice. | ||
| I hear the conspiracy theories. | ||
| I did all that. | ||
| I sacrificed. | ||
| I don't want y'all to get sick. | ||
| I don't want my mama to get sick. | ||
| I don't want my boys to get sick. | ||
| So I sacrificed for the team. | ||
| Everybody else is doing it. | ||
| Sacrifice plays an important role in winning the championship. | ||
| But as a basketball player, I think he's really grown up. | ||
| I just hope they lose. | ||
| He had a season-high 27th inning. | ||
| I just hope they lose. | ||
| Sage, I take no pleasure in that compilation for several reasons. | ||
| You know that I don't watch the NBA anymore. | ||
| It was largely because of how racial everything became and then because of that sort of COVID nonsense. | ||
| And I basically, I don't even know who's in the finals, right? | ||
| Is it the finals this week or it's the semifinals or something? | ||
| I don't even know what's going on. | ||
| It starts next week, yeah. | ||
| The fact that I don't know that after 40 something years of basketball is crazy. | ||
| Because you're a basketball guy. | ||
| And I love basketball, yeah. | ||
| But I get no pleasure in that also because those guys are great broadcasters for the most part. | ||
| Barkley has become a great broadcaster. | ||
| Kenny Smith was on my favorite team ever, the 95 Houston Rockets, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| That is like direct to what caused your entire life to change, this COVID conversation. | ||
| Yeah, and I think one of the things that stood out to me is what Shaq said. | ||
| Everybody else is doing it. | ||
| That just, and I heard it then, and to hear it now, you know, three years later, it's just like, oh my goodness, why? | ||
| Every single thing they said was a talking point. | ||
| A talking point that came from Fauci, basically. | ||
| And everybody took it hook, line, and sinker, especially in the media. | ||
| Ernie Johnson, by the way, always will be the GOAT. | ||
| Love him, and you heard him say it there as well. | ||
| I remember being at ESPN and being so disappointed in how it was encouraged to pile on to Kyrie | ||
| Irving and the selfishness word and how stupid he is because he said he was willing to give | ||
| away his $34-$35 million annual salary to stand up for his principals to not take the | ||
| vaccine. | ||
| Stephen A went in on him as well. | ||
| Every single person did. | ||
| The conversation that I think came up last night with Kenny Smith was that he, you know, watching Kyrie Irving and doing what he's doing now. | ||
| And everybody's like, yeah, Kyrie, he's evolved. | ||
| He's 32 now. | ||
| And he's evolved from the COVID. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| He's actually probably much stronger, stronger than ever internally for taking a stand. | ||
| But at that time, everybody crushed him. | ||
| Kenny was like, Stephen A, you can't crush him because he's from our neighborhood. | ||
| He's from our hood. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| So just because he's from your neighborhood or he has the same skin color, you can't crush him, but you can crush the white guy who's not taking the vaccine like they did to Cole Beasley and other people. | ||
| Cole Beasley's from the NFL. | ||
| The inconsistencies are gross. | ||
| There's a lot of layers there. | ||
| But at the end of the day, let's give Kyrie Irving his flowers for standing tall and staying true to his principles, something that I didn't do. | ||
| I am sick to my stomach still that I took the vaccine in order to keep my job at ESPN, and that's all it was. | ||
| I waited until the very last day, the last possible day, in order to get the vaccine to be fully vaccinated by September 30, 2021, because I was going to walk away from my job, but I have three kids and I couldn't do it. | ||
| I am sickened that I did that. | ||
| I did what I had to do at that moment. | ||
| Kyrie stood tall when everybody was crushing him. | ||
| So now to hear those guys who I love them all to say, yeah, I'm glad he's doing well. | ||
| Have you apologized? | ||
| Have you called him? | ||
| Because I know you all can get a hold of him. | ||
| Have you called his dad? | ||
| The way that you crushed him for so long on so many different levels. | ||
| I wrote Kyrie a couple times to him, like, stay strong. | ||
| And I had to be quiet about it, right? | ||
| I don't even know if he got it. | ||
| But good for him. | ||
| And if there's no other reason to root for the Dallas Mavericks right now. | ||
| It's because of Kyrie Irving, because he might be different. | ||
| He might have said, the world is flat. | ||
| He might have said all these different things. | ||
| It created some controversy when he retweeted certain movies. | ||
| At the end of the day, he's true to himself. | ||
| Isn't that what we want? | ||
| We're okay if the kid at my daughter's school says, there's a girl today, a boy tomorrow, a cat tomorrow. | ||
| We're fine with that. | ||
| But are we not okay with this man staying true to who he is? | ||
| Apologize. | ||
| Apologize to Kyrie Irving. | ||
| Right, well, do what Stephen A did, which is why I want to give Stephen A credit there, because Stephen A's like, yeah, I got it wrong. | ||
| But the one thing, Dave, I think he was saying he got it wrong for criticizing him because he's one of them and from the same neighborhood. | ||
| Was he apologizing specifically for the words? | ||
| It was almost like he was apologizing just for the tone that he went after him. | ||
| Should have been nicer, softer, because they're from the same area. | ||
| That's what was confusing to me. | ||
| That's the way I took it. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, I get that. | ||
| I mean, to me, that's why he hasn't fully gotten there yet. | ||
| He's still doing this sort of politically too. | ||
| It's like halfway there, but at least, I would say at least it's something. | ||
| But Riley, can you talk about the pressure on the vaccine front as a young athlete? | ||
| Because I knew an awful lot of people that were young, 20s and younger that did not want to get it. | ||
| And then you get all sorts of pressures and you also want to play even if you're not being paid for it, et cetera. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Let me just say, I had no idea. | ||
| Uh, that this clip existed and that they were, I mean, watching that just then. | ||
| Oh my gosh. | ||
| That is entirely like propaganda is really giving like communist China is what I felt like. | ||
| Oh my gosh. | ||
| I don't know if I realized it was to that extent. | ||
| Uh, but watching that. | ||
| Understanding that being a collegiate athlete during the time of COVID, of course, it hit the end of my, my sophomore year, we dealt with the effects the rest of my collegiate career. | ||
| Uh, but also in dealing with competing against men, the tactics that they use for submission to force us into, to, to, uh, coercion. | ||
| It's the same tactics, right? | ||
| They told us we would be hurting other people. | ||
| Riley, you're the team captain. | ||
| Don't you, you know, you're supposed to lead the team. | ||
| You have to get the vaccine is mandatory is what they told me. | ||
| Uh, to which I'd already had COVID at this point. | ||
| I had the antibodies, which I thought my, my understanding was this was the most and most effective natural form of immunity already having COVID. | ||
| Young, I'm healthy. | ||
| I'm not getting the vaccine. | ||
| They said, Riley, no, it's mandatory. | ||
| You have to, if you want to be able to compete with your team, you have to get it. | ||
| But I understood that mandatory did not mean law. | ||
| It actually didn't mean required. | ||
| It meant highly suggested. | ||
| But they didn't disclose that to the rest of us, to any of us really. | ||
| But I'll tell you, I stood firm. | ||
| And that was the first time I learned how to stand up for myself to authority figures. | ||
| And it helped me tremendously in standing up for myself my senior year in a totally unrelated but very similar topic. | ||
| We were forced to, you know, the contact tracing, the social distancing, the mask mandates, which how many of you have seen a swimmer in the water wearing a mask? | ||
| No, essentially waterboarded ourselves every day. | ||
| It was miserable. | ||
| But nonetheless, I stood tall. | ||
| I stood firm. | ||
| They told me, I remember, Riley, we had a big meet coming up against University of Alabama. | ||
| They said, Riley, you're not going to be able to go to the meet if you don't get the vaccine. | ||
| I was my university's best swimmer, and I said, okay. | ||
| I called them on it. | ||
| I called their BS. | ||
| Of course, I got to go to the meet. | ||
| Of course, I got to compete. | ||
| And no, I didn't get the vaccine. | ||
| And I could not be more grateful and proud of myself and my family and my coaches, really, for supporting me and not getting the vaccine now. | ||
| Can I jump in real quick, too? | ||
| Because that's why I kind of struggle, right, to forgive myself. | ||
| And I say it to others, too. | ||
| We did what we had to do in that moment based on each of our situations, right? | ||
| And I knew that I would literally be fired. | ||
| Disney, Disney owns ESPN. | ||
| And so what do you do, right? | ||
| I mean, people say, well, you could have done it and gone and gotten another job. | ||
| I don't know that it's that simple. | ||
| People don't understand. | ||
| But you did it. | ||
| You took a chance, Riley, and you were an example to so many there. | ||
| Dave, you stood firm and you supported your entire staff for whatever their decision was, right? | ||
| And I think that- I'm pretty sure I would have fired them if they got the VAX, so, you know. | ||
| I love that, but you've all learned some great lessons through this. | ||
| My husband, who is an immigrant, I know, I always thought I was going to marry this, like, all-American, like, Cowboy-esque figure. | ||
| But I've married this really cute six-foot-four British guy who now has this awesome country accent living in Nashville. | ||
| We've been married for over two years now, and he still doesn't have his green card, despite everything going on with the border and the problems we are seeing with illegal immigration. | ||
| He still doesn't have his green card, and we just got a letter in the mail, and it's because he won't get the COVID vaccine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| What? | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It makes our lives- And now he's married to you, so now he's screwed, right? | |
| They're gonna deport him. | ||
| I mean, Riley, all you gotta do is go on vacation with him and leave him in Mexico and have him walk through the border, and then maybe they can get him, yeah, I mean. | ||
| Yeah, he'll get a credit card that way, too, with what things are inloaded to it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
If I'm out of commission, it's because I'm in Mexico. | |
| Well, listen, you guys are both awesome, and you're both a case study in bravery. | ||
| I really enjoyed this show, and I'd love to have you back on together solo anytime. | ||
| You are totally welcome. | ||
| Sage, should I ask for an NBA Finals prediction? | ||
| Do you want to do that, considering I guess now I know the Mavericks are in it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Dirk is retired, right? | |
| What's that? | ||
| Dirk is retired, right? | ||
| It's not been that long since you haven't watched, right? | ||
| Listen, the Boston Celtics are sitting there waiting. | ||
| I feel like this is their time. | ||
| Their head coach, Missoula, like he alone, I love Jason Tatum, he alone is somebody to cheer for. | ||
| He has stood tall, stood firm on his principles. | ||
| He's got a really strong faith. | ||
| He's a great guy who was shoved into a difficult position. | ||
| So I'm going Eastern Conference no matter what. | ||
| All right, and actually, Riley, I do have one thing that we can end the show with you, because it has been a debate since you ever came onto the news and everything. | ||
| We have often debated whether Leah Thomas actually still has male genitals. | ||
| And I don't know if you know, but I do want to present a theory to you. | ||
| This is, my director Connor's theory has been that Leah Thomas still does have male genitals, which he uses as a propeller while swimming. | ||
| It's a motor. | ||
| It's an extra motor. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is it true? | ||
| Is it true? | ||
| I'll tell you, he definitely had his male genitals when he was competing. | ||
| But now, it's a long, it's a long drawn out story, but he has, he's dating another boy. | ||
| Uh, who identifies as a woman. | ||
| So it's two men, but they call themselves lesbians. | ||
| They both went and got their genitals removed. | ||
| And what is reported, again, allegedly based on what they post on social media, photos, pictures, different things, uh, they both essentially got neutered like dogs. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Remove their testicles, but left their other parts so they could still engage in penetrative sex. | ||
| Um, and now they have their testicles pickled in a jar on their mantle at their house. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, but it's not mental illness. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I don't know that we can go out to the weekend like this. | ||
| No, I might have ruined the whole episode. | ||
| Sorry, that might be, you need a label now. | ||
| Rated for mature, mature adults. | ||
| Riley, I think this movie is a little before your time, but Sage, remember Lethal Weapon, how Danny Glover, every other line he would say, I'm getting too old for this. | ||
| That's basically me at this point. | ||
| A thousand percent, and the visual, Riley, you have ruined my week, and the visual of those on the... I can't. | ||
| I'll send you the picture after this. | ||
| Good luck out there, ladies. | ||
| Thank you, Dave. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You here for an abortion, too? | |
| Yeah, I discovered a few days ago I wasn't bleeding out my coo, so I guess I'm knocked up. | ||
| Is this doctor any good? | ||
| Mrs. Garrison? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, that's me. | |
| Hello, doctor. | ||
| Looks like I need an abortion. | ||
| An abortion? | ||
| Yeah, I've got one growing inside me. | ||
| Now, are you gonna scramble its brains or just vacuum it out? | ||
| If you want, you can just scramble it and I'll queef it out myself. | ||
| Mr. Garrison. | ||
| Mrs. Garrison. | ||
| Mrs. Garrison, you can't have an abortion. | ||
| Don't you tell me what I can and can't do with my body! | ||
| A woman has a right to choose! | ||
| No, I mean you're physically unable to have an abortion because you can't get pregnant. | ||
| But I missed my period. | ||
| You can't have periods either. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You had a sex change, Mr. Garrison, but you don't have ovaries or a womb. | |
| You don't produce eggs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You mean... | |
| I'll never know what it feels like to have a baby growing inside me and then scramble its brains and vacuum it out. | ||
| That's right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But I paid $5,000 to be a woman. | |
| This would mean I'm not really a woman. | ||
| I'm just a... I'm just a guy with a mutilated penis! | ||
| Basically, yes. |
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