May 5, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:14:41
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| When they lump, they intentionally lump many different pieces of legislation or issues together in one bill to try to force people's hands in casting a vote for something where they may like one thing but they don't like five things but the one thing is really important to them. | ||
| And that's exactly what they did with this legislation. | ||
| It's quite deceptive when you look at it because it puts every member of Congress in a tough spot to have to weigh the pros and cons. | ||
| How much do I care about this one thing and how bad is the bad parts of it? | ||
| It is my view that Congress should stick to, hey, if you want funding for Ukraine, put that on the floor alone. | ||
| If you want funding for Israel, put that on the floor alone. | ||
| If you want to extend, you know, the FISA surveillance authorities, put that on the floor on its own. | ||
|
unidentified
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All right, joining me today is the author of the new book, For Love of Country, | |
| Leave the Democrat Party Behind, Tulsi Gabbard. | ||
| Did you write this book for me? | ||
| I thought you would like that title, Dave. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| I have never seen a title more appropriate or basically the Dave Rubin story. | ||
| So you survived. | ||
| You survived. | ||
| You left the Democrat Party. | ||
| You and I have had such great conversations over the years. | ||
| I feel like you, you know, we have been through, you made the decision before I did, but it's been great to have our conversation, our friendship throughout this very tumultuous period politically for the country. | ||
| And so yes, I made the decision to leave the Democratic Party, and that happened in October of 2022, just before that important midterm election. | ||
| I knew what kind of wrath and criticism and name-calling I would get from many of my former colleagues. | ||
| You were getting plenty of that before that. | ||
| That's why I was like, OK, I know what to expect, because they've been doing this for years. | ||
| Because I wasn't at all a toe of the party line kind of girl in Congress. | ||
| But what I didn't expect, literally within hours of posting the video telling people, here's why I'm leaving Democratic Party and how the Democratic Party left me. | ||
| I got an outpouring of messages from everyday Americans across the country. | ||
| Some people who I knew outside of politics, but most people I've never heard from, never met before, saying, thank you for expressing things that I've been feeling for so long. | ||
| Thank you for having the strength to stand up to these guys because I've been too afraid to speak out. | ||
| I've been afraid of losing my job, afraid of losing friends or family members. | ||
| And just things like that that encouraged me to actually put down on paper and write in more depth. | ||
| Not only the reasons why I left, but the experiences that I had that really led me to making that decision. | ||
| Does it seem very obvious to you now? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| When I look back on my journey now, I'm like, oh, it was clearly going to end up here. | ||
| Yeah, so you feel similarly. | ||
| Yeah, and people tell me like, well, I saw you on the stage in the 2020 Democratic debate and I was like, why is she a Democrat? | ||
| One of these is not like the other. | ||
| And questioning, well, what took you so long? | ||
| For me, it was going through, you know, I served for eight years in Congress. | ||
| I was vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. | ||
| I ran for president in the Democratic primary. | ||
| And in each of those roles and positions, I held out hope and put my effort and energy toward actually trying to be constructive and bringing positive change to the Democratic Party and trying to get it to the place where it was when I joined over 20 years ago as a 21-year-old in Hawaii. | ||
| To be a party of the little guy, you know, to be the big open tent free speech party, the party that at that time had the ACLU standing up for free speech and standing up for civil liberties and bringing people from all different backgrounds together. | ||
| And it was different things over time, but especially in that presidential primary, that it became tremendously clear to me that the Democrat elite had zero interest in being the traditional liberal party of JFK, of being a party that is actually trying to live out the dream of Martin Luther King. | ||
| Not only did they have no interest They actively attacked and smeared and tried to silence me for having the audacity to do that. | ||
| And did it in the most, like, obnoxious possible ways. | ||
| I mean, Hillary Clinton, while you were the last one running against Biden, basically everyone else cut their deals to either get in the administration or whatever it was to drop out before Super Tuesday. | ||
| Hillary Clinton, I think, went on The View, if I'm not mistaken, and said, you know, basically, you're a Putin stooge. | ||
| Or she didn't even say your name, right? | ||
| No. | ||
| She said, like, the other one. | ||
| Yeah, it was actually David Axelrod. | ||
| She was on David Axelrod's podcast. | ||
| She probably did it on The View as well. | ||
| But I think the first time she talked about me publicly was on David Axelrod's podcast, and without saying my name, essentially said the Russians were grooming me, and so on and so on, saying that I'm a traitor to my country. | ||
| And there were a couple of news outlets that reached out to her after or her campaign spokes or her spokesperson saying, you know, well, you didn't mention a name. | ||
| Who are you talking about? | ||
| Are you talking about Tulsi Gabbard? | ||
| And there was some snarky, stupid reply from her spokesperson that essentially confirmed it. | ||
| And, you know, to have former Secretary of State, you know, former Democratic nominee, former U.S. | ||
| Senator, former First Lady take the time and space out of her life and schedule to make that point was a very clear signal to me. | ||
| And even more powerfully to anyone else who dared to support me or dared to be like, yeah, yeah, more of us should stand up against her neocon neoliberal warmongering. | ||
| More of us should stand up against the corrupt machine of politics in Washington that cares more for power than they do for the people. | ||
| Anyone who challenges so directly The Democrat elite machine of which Hillary Clinton is, you know, the leader of. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Here's what will happen to you. | ||
| We will come after you and we will try to destroy you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And what was interesting about it to me was that it was purely punitive because he was going to be the nominee at that point. | ||
| I mean, you were still in, but they had already done the thing. | ||
| So she was clearly going after you to say, oh, if you leave us, the example we're going to make of Tulsi is what we'll do to all of you guys. | ||
| So if you don't think that you're Having left the party, or if you see that as inevitable, do you think the destruction or what has now happened to the Democrat Party was inevitable? | ||
| Was there a moment that they could have stopped this? | ||
| Had Biden maybe picked you instead of Kamala? | ||
| Could that have done something to shift whether you would have accepted or not? | ||
| You know, but like, was there any correction that could have happened before they went off the deep end? | ||
| Sure, I think there were certainly a number of moments and kind of forks in the road where they could have chosen a different path to, for example, you know, find ways to bring the country together, rather than, you know, the speech that President Biden gave in Philadelphia. | ||
| At Independence Hall. | ||
| You know, the moment was there, the setting was there, the opportunity was there for him to, I think he was maybe a year after he was sworn in, the opportunity was there to deliver a very unifying speech. | ||
| This was in the lead up to the 2022 election. | ||
| You know, there was a small little sliver of hope that like, okay, if for no other reason than for purely political tactics in winning more seats in Congress in this 2022 election, maybe this will be a moment he will actually try to bring the country together. | ||
| And I talk about this in my book. | ||
| He did the exact opposite. | ||
| It might be the most divisive speech I've ever heard in my life. | ||
| I completely agree. | ||
| And that is probably one of the biggest, but one of many of those lost opportunities. | ||
| And this was why, when I withdrew from the presidential campaign, why I made that decision to endorse Joe Biden in the hopes that if he were elected president, At a minimum, I could be in a place and have an opportunity to provide some kind of influence to him, because I've known him for a long time, that I could provide some kind of influence to him to listen to his better angels, to be a more common sense minded leader, to be, you know, the Uncle Joe that was able to bring people together around different issues, who could actually unite | ||
| a heavily divided country and unfortunately at every step along the way from his inauguration | ||
| going forward he chose the path of darkness and divisiveness and hate. | ||
| What has happened to the liberals? | ||
| Because I know that even you and I have, I would say, probably some differences, maybe on the margins a little bit. | ||
| I think you've shifted on some things over the years. | ||
| I've shifted on some things. | ||
| It doesn't even matter. | ||
| I mean, we can get into them, but it really doesn't even matter. | ||
| I think what both of us roughly represent is what most Americans represent. | ||
| And that used to be the liberal position. | ||
| And then some people maybe had more conservative religious views, something like that. | ||
| But the liberals have basically been just annihilated at this point. | ||
| I think it's very dangerous for America, actually. | ||
| It is. | ||
| The real liberals, obviously, I'm talking about. | ||
| The traditional liberals of, you know, the great leaders from our country's past. | ||
| What do you think happened? | ||
| Was it inevitable in a weird way? | ||
| I don't believe that it was inevitable. | ||
| I try to be optimistic and I try to be hopeful. | ||
| And what I saw over the years that I served in Congress was increasingly the Democratic Party was catering towards the most extreme, loud elements within their base of support. | ||
| I think it's best embodied today by the squad. | ||
| And made decisions out of fear. | ||
| Fear of retaliation from that constituency. | ||
| Fear of loss of power, ultimately, is kind of the major motivating factor in the decisions that they're making. | ||
| The positions they're taking, whether you talk about, you know, the trans ideology, whether you talk about, you know, defund the police and how crime and an undermining of the rule of law is taking over our country. | ||
| You see what's happening on these college campuses. | ||
| You look at our open borders. | ||
| I was at the border recently in California and it's It's a well-oiled cartel-run machine where I stood there and I watched hundreds of people come across the border. | ||
| They knew exactly where to go. | ||
| Border Patrol would go and run their pickups, essentially serving as a glorified Uber driver. | ||
| They go and get processed, they get a piece of paper, and they're on a plane anywhere they want to go in the country in about 24 hours. | ||
| Border Patrol, their leadership is running a very tight ship. | ||
| Any one of them who speaks out will be retaliated against, without a doubt. | ||
| And yet they are in a position where they cannot even do their job because of The Biden-Harris administration and the Democrat elite. | ||
| So you look at these different examples, any common sense minded American can say like, well, this is crazy. | ||
| If you're a political operative, you look at this, you're like, well, these are not common sense positions. | ||
| They make no sense from anyone's standpoint, regardless of party politics. | ||
| And yet this is what they're doing. | ||
| So you believe it to be more calculated than just incompetence, right? | ||
| That seems to be the debate that everyone's having, you know, or maybe they just don't, they kind of don't know what they're doing with crime and drugs and border. | ||
| And yeah, I don't believe it either, but. | ||
| It's, it is, it goes far beyond, incompetence. | ||
| You can see exactly, you might be able to say, oh, well, gosh, they made a mistake here or there, uh, that, that could be attributed to incompetence, but we have seen now consistently Throughout his entire administration over these last three and a half years, consistently pushing policies that undermine our freedom, that make our country less safe and less secure, and that that is very quickly unraveling and destroying the foundational fundamental elements of our country and what it means to be an American here. | ||
| That has to be intentional. | ||
| So I'm with you on that. | ||
| But then the question is, so then what is their intent? | ||
| Their end state is what we are already seeing, which is a more and more tyrannical authoritarian government where they can hold on to power for as long as they possibly can without concern for the cost on our freedom and our democracy and the American people. | ||
| That's what it boils down to. | ||
| Do you think Biden knew that when he was going in? | ||
| Because the idea was, you said you knew Uncle Joe. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The idea that they were at least selling with us was, oh, don't worry, he's going to be the bulwark against the crazies because he's been around forever. | ||
| He's old. | ||
| He's kind of an old school Democrat. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Now it seems very clear to me that, like, the guy's not there. | ||
| So do you think he even realizes fully what's going on here now? | ||
| It may not matter, I guess. | ||
| Ultimately, the consequences are what matters most. | ||
| I'm not there in the White House, but I refuse to absolve him of responsibility. | ||
| He is the President of the United States. | ||
| He ran for president, and he has made the decision to run for president again. | ||
| And at different times, even in impromptu moments, he comes out and makes statements about his position. | ||
| So while some of those statements don't make any sense at times, I will not absolve him of his responsibility because ultimately it is on him. | ||
| And if he is ceding his authority to those around him to come up with policies and hand him note cards that tell him what to say and what to do and where to go and this and that, that's still on Joe Biden. | ||
| And we as voters have to hold him responsible for that. | ||
| How much of this do you blame the Republicans for? | ||
| That the Republicans kind of suck. | ||
| I mean, that's kind of true. | ||
| They're better than the Democrats for the most part. | ||
| And certainly in certain places like Florida, they're way better. | ||
| But clearly there's a problem there. | ||
| I mean, you campaigned with a lot of Republicans, a lot of people that I was pulling for, too. | ||
| Obviously, the midterms were not good. | ||
| I don't think that's necessarily because the Democrats are so great. | ||
| I think it's because a lot of the Republicans are not. | ||
| I mean, just look at Ukraine funding now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, the message that I'm carrying as I'm traveling across the country and talking to folks and sharing my story and my journey and the truth about what's happening to our country, the truth about what the Democrat elite are doing, is one that points out the opportunity and the responsibility that we have as voters to hold leaders accountable. | ||
| Across both political parties. | ||
| If we really want to solve the problems that we have, we have to make sure that we are electing leaders who are committed to the Constitution, committed to freedom, who are leading with the servant's heart, and actually acting within the best interests of the American people and our country. | ||
| Period. | ||
| And so, you know, when you have both Democrats and Republicans coming together to undermine our civil liberties and allow increased authorities in the executive branch to conduct warrantless surveillance on Americans, we can't allow that to stand. | ||
| When you have people, you mentioned the Ukraine funding. | ||
| And the chunk of money that was designated for border security in Ukraine, and yet we are facing our own national security crisis on our own southern border. | ||
| Never mind the fact that they're still not accounting for all the money that we are sending to Ukraine. | ||
| Never mind the fact that we are years into this now and not a single person can clearly... There's no cohesive vision of what quote-unquote winning looks like. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The last headline I saw before this... | ||
| At the end, he's got no matter how many weapons you give you, he has far more people. | ||
| He has a military industrial complex, the ability to reconstitute, you know, their tanks and their weapons system far more than Ukraine will ever have. | ||
| And most importantly, he is a nuclear-armed power with the policies in place. | ||
| That is, it's no longer a no-first-strike policy, which they had in the past. | ||
| It is if they are faced with an existential threat, he has the authorities from his legislative body to use nuclear weapons. | ||
| And it's an intentionally vague statement. | ||
| What does an existential threat look like? | ||
| It could come in many different forms. | ||
| Which, by the way, any country would say that's not sucking up to Putin to say that. | ||
| It's just a fact. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It is just a fact. | ||
| And our leaders have a responsibility to understand how he's thinking, to understand the conditions that he is operating from. | ||
| This is like the basic Sun Tzu art of war. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You have to know your opposition. | ||
| In order to to predict, OK, well, here's what we think they'll do next in order to act within your own interests. | ||
| There are so many levels of failures in this. | ||
| I think that the headline I saw right before that Congress took that vote had to do with unless and we've been hearing this over and over, unless Congress acts, Ukraine will lose. | ||
| Okay, so now the bar for success is you're just going to prevent them from losing, which means there will continue to be this war of attrition. | ||
| More Ukrainians will die. | ||
| How is that even? | ||
| You claim to care about the Ukrainian people and their lives and their suffering. | ||
| How is that helping them? | ||
| It's not. | ||
| A war of attrition does not help the Ukrainian people. | ||
| I have friends there. | ||
| I've been there many times. | ||
| And they are terrified that their husbands will be forcibly conscripted into Fighting what is a losing war. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We had an office, locals had an office in Ukraine and we helped some people get out. | ||
| They got to Macedonia. | ||
| We have two guys that are now here with green cards, but it's like the whole country has basically been destroyed. | ||
| So can you talk a little bit about when a bill gets to Congress? | ||
| Just give me like a little, it's probably not the most fun thing for you to do, but like a little, A bill shows up. | ||
| It's a lot thicker than the two pieces of paper here. | ||
| It shows up, you have the media telling you, you better sign this damn thing or we're going to war or the border is going to be overrun or children won't have water or whatever the issue of the day is. | ||
| Just talk to me about the process of how you had to either go through the deal or have someone go through it, and then just all the outside pressures, the lobbyists, like, shoot me the 101 on that, because I think people saw this thing and were just like, this is just too much. | ||
| McConnell, $60 million. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Did you see what he said? | ||
| $60 million. | ||
| And they asked him, will that be enough? | ||
| He said, I hope. | ||
| 60 billion. | ||
| Sorry, 60 billion. | ||
| Just a closing thought on that piece. | ||
| It's important to point out a couple of things. | ||
| Number one is, if people in Congress, if people in Washington were truly compassionate and caring for the people of Ukraine, they would have done everything possible to broker a deal early on in this war to prevent more unnecessary loss of life. | ||
| Pragmatic leaders recognize, you and I saw this from the very beginning, that this can only end with a brokered treaty, where both parties walk away not entirely happy, but a long-standing war would be prevented. | ||
| We know the Biden administration blocked multiple attempts at a brokered deal that leaders of other countries tried to pursue. | ||
| And the second piece is, again, And I'll connect this with the question you're asking. | ||
| Our own leaders from both parties failed to ask and answer the most simple questions. | ||
| First of which is, how does this help ensure our national security interests? | ||
| How does this help the American people? | ||
| And if it does, what is the objective we are trying to accomplish? | ||
| They've never been able to truly address that in a way that actually made sense. | ||
| So going to the legislative process, it remains unfortunately very broken. | ||
| A lot of people don't realize that, you know, for me as a member of Congress, I'd introduce legislation whether or not it ever saw the light of day, either in committee or on the House floor for a vote, was essentially up to my own party leadership and the leadership of the party in power. | ||
| So when I was there, the power switched back and forth a couple of times. | ||
| It's not a very democratized process where you've got 435 representatives of all these different constituencies, voters who say, hey, I want you to go and represent me in Washington. | ||
| Like, OK, cool. | ||
| Here's the ideas I have on how we solve the problems of the day. | ||
| But unless you're in the good graces of the party in power, those good ideas may never actually see the light of day. | ||
| So the power is kind of strangle-held into a very few number of people's hands. | ||
| Is that why so many people seemingly vote for things that they don't seem to actually be for? | ||
| So, for example, we see this Ukraine vote. | ||
| A hundred some-odd Republicans voted on it. | ||
| I suspect, at least with the Republicans, if you went back to their districts and asked about this, I would guess 90 percent of the districts would have said no or at least more questions or give me some guarantees or some receipts or something. | ||
| But they ended up voting for it while waving the flag. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Which is just... | ||
| Mind-blowing, really, when you look at that symbolism. | ||
| And heartbreaking, really, when you look at what is happening to our country here right now on so many levels. | ||
| When they lump, they intentionally lump many different pieces of legislation or issues together in one bill to try to force people's hands in casting a vote for something where they may like one thing but they don't like five things but the one thing is really important to them. | ||
| And that's exactly what they did with this legislation. | ||
| It's quite deceptive when you look at it because it puts every member of Congress in a tough spot to have to weigh the pros and cons. | ||
| How much do I care about this one thing and how bad is the bad parts of it? | ||
| It is my view that Congress should stick to, hey, if you want funding for Ukraine, put that on the floor alone. | ||
| If you want funding for Israel, put that on the floor alone. | ||
| If you want to extend, you know, the FISA surveillance authorities, put that on the floor on its own. | ||
| And that's basically what everyone wants. | ||
| That is what the American people want. | ||
| So that, you know, if I'm a member of Congress and I'm voting on something, I can go back and do a town hall in my district and they can say, hey, how come you voted this way? | ||
| And it's not like, well, it was a 6,000 page bill and it had 400 different provisions and this was the provision that I supported or here's the provision that I oppose. | ||
| It's just, you know, it gives people political cover. | ||
| And this is why they do it, from a partisan standpoint. | ||
| It gives people political cover for when they do go back to not actually have to take responsibility and be held accountable. | ||
| And it gives the party leadership more leverage and power. | ||
| And this is where the other major problem is. | ||
| And I've seen it happen in real time. | ||
| The Democratic Party never helped me in a single one of my elections, whether for State House, City Council, Congress or running for president. | ||
| Even before you were a bad guy? | ||
| Never. | ||
| Which, you know, I had a harder road to walk. | ||
| But in hindsight, every single time I was grateful for it, because there wasn't a single person in that party who could come and say, hey, I had your back on this, or we have a $5 million check set aside for you. | ||
| You better vote this way or else. | ||
| It never happened to me once. | ||
| I think they also knew that I wouldn't respond well if they did try to do some arm twisting, but I've seen it happen with former colleagues of mine. | ||
| Who are in, you know, those purple swing districts who really needed that help and who often took tough votes because if they went along with the party line, it would be a radical. | ||
| It would be viewed as a radical vote by their more moderate constituencies. | ||
| And so the party. | ||
| You know, you can write an unlimited amount of money, a check, to the party, to either party, whereas individual members are limited to whatever the limit is. | ||
| And so it gives an inordinate amount of power to the party leadership to go and use that as leverage to twist people's arms, to vote against their conscience, or even to vote against their district to benefit the party's, the national party's power. | ||
| How worried are you that none of it really works anymore and that we're just in sort of like a zombified stage before, I don't want to say the end because I don't think it's the end, but before something very different. | ||
| I was in D.C. | ||
| during the the border, the bipartisan border deal, and I interviewed, like, I couldn't get one Democrat to sit down with me. | ||
| We tried, but I interviewed plenty of senators. | ||
| Which, by the way, let's just Pause on that for a moment. | ||
| I'm not noted as the most hardcore interviewer either. | ||
| They always tell me I'm a softball interviewer, so you'd think they might want to sit down with me. | ||
| But the fact that not a single one of them was willing to make their case to you, that says a lot. | ||
| And it says a lot about the lack of courage, a lack of confidence in their position, a lack of transparency, and fear, frankly. | ||
| That they may be exposed, that you may ask a question that exposes their position for the weakness that it is and how their position is not actually the position for America. | ||
| And ironically, or I guess obviously, I would have treated them with the exact same respect I treat anyone else that I'm sitting across from. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Like you have with me for years, even when I was a Democrat in Congress. | ||
| Crazy, crazy. | ||
| But we brought you over, so it's okay now. | ||
| Maybe that's what they're afraid of. | ||
| They're afraid of being confronted with the truth that they can't deny. | ||
| And then they got it like, well, what do I do now? | ||
| People used to say I was the gateway drug to Jordan Peterson, but I might be the gateway drug to Tulsi Gabbard, so you never know. | ||
| But the reason I mention that is because the sense I got, having sat down with Ted Cruz and Rand Paul and Marsha Blackburn and Jim Jordan, like everybody there, was that everyone, they wouldn't say it, but everyone's feeling was, this does not work. | ||
| Like it was just like a lot of words. | ||
| Not just the bill, like the whole thing. | ||
| It just doesn't kind of work. | ||
| So we're just saying a lot of words and we're voting on a bunch of different things. | ||
| But everyone was just like, ugh. | ||
| Like, it doesn't really work anymore. | ||
| And I am worried about that, that the machine itself is just no longer working and the Democrats are basically stripping the copper wire while they can. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Something to that effect. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't think it's irretrievably broken. | ||
| There are serious structural problems that need to be addressed. | ||
| You know, the Democratic Party has brought itself to the point where it's just like total compliance. | ||
| You must go along. | ||
| You must obey whatever the decision or the narrative is of the day or face the consequences. | ||
| Which is not the history of the Democratic Party. | ||
| I remember people talking about and throwing their hands up saying, oh my gosh, the Democratic Party is so messy. | ||
| You guys always disagree with each other. | ||
| You can never speak with one cohesive message. | ||
| Well, now it's the complete opposite. | ||
| It is toe the line or else. | ||
| And it is being done in concert with the big mainstream propaganda media and with big tech. | ||
| They are all You know, moving like zombies, as you said, in one direction that is the wrong direction for the country. | ||
| You know, in the Republican Party, I will say It is encouraging to see that there are disagreements, that there is some kind of space for dissent and debate and argument. | ||
| And, you know, even as messy as some of these legislative battles are, I think it's a good thing that that opportunity still exists. | ||
| That means it's not completely irretrievably broken. | ||
| And that means there is opportunity. | ||
| And again, it's just as frustrated as we are with the process, | ||
| it really, the responsibility comes back to us as voters. | ||
| Really. | ||
| And people are understandably disheartened and sometimes feel hopeless. | ||
| And will my vote actually really count? | ||
| And there's problems with the election system and there's problems with, you know, what the Biden administration is doing now with trying to limit who we're actually allowed to even vote for and weaponizing the Department of Justice and law enforcement, the federal and state. | ||
| All of these things are happening that impact and directly undermine our democracy. | ||
| But ultimately, what do we do? | ||
| How do we fix it? | ||
| It comes down to us taking that personal responsibility and ownership. | ||
| Not being blind followers to anyone and being informed as we go and cast our vote, putting that commitment to the Constitution and the American people at the forefront. | ||
| So as you're going around with this book, and again, the subtitle, Leave the Democrat Party Behind, it's pretty clear on what the messaging is on this thing. | ||
| So the people that are coming up to you that probably feel the same way, are they telling you they are going to vote Republican? | ||
| For the first time now? | ||
| Or are they just saying they're not going to vote? | ||
| Are they saying they're going to vote for RFK? | ||
| What are you getting? | ||
| Different. | ||
| All different responses. | ||
| Maybe one or two people might have said, I just might stay home. | ||
| And that just drives me nuts. | ||
| And so I always give a very compelling argument to push back. | ||
| Even some friends of mine who serve in the military, who've never voted before for as long as they've been in the military, And I just tell him, like, hey, I respect, you know, whatever reason you made that choice. | ||
| You have to vote in this. | ||
| Like, if you love our country, as I know you do, you have to vote in this election. | ||
| So, you know, it's different responses. | ||
| Some people are just saying, like, I don't know if I can vote for Biden this time, you know, maybe things will be different. | ||
| I was like, no, it's going to get worse. | ||
| If they're allowed to stay in power, it will get many, many times worse because they will run around the country and say, well, the American people have given us a mandate To continue the great work we've been doing. | ||
| And so everything we've seen over these last few years, it's just gonna ratchet up radically and quickly. | ||
| You know, people are, many are unsure what they want to do. | ||
| There are people who are drawn to RFK. | ||
| There are people who recognize That even if they didn't vote or even consider voting for Trump in the past, they recognize that President Trump is best positioned at this time to be able to, number one, stop the Democrat elite from destroying our country, which is the most important task before us. | ||
| And then and then, frankly, to to create some serious disruption in the Washington establishment. | ||
| So we'll get to the Trump guy and then some of the, I want to talk about some non-political stuff too. | ||
| But I had RFK in that chair just a couple of weeks ago. | ||
| Was that the first time you met him? | ||
| It was the first time we had met in, no, no, no. | ||
| I had interviewed him one other time in person and then one time on Skype and he's just, He's just a decent guy. | ||
| He's a wonderful person. | ||
| The feeling that I have in here with you, it's the same thing. | ||
| It's like, this is a decent man and whatever. | ||
| You know, I disagreed with him on the affirmative action decision, Supreme Court, and we got into it a little bit. | ||
| And he actually kind of by the end was, I think, coming a little more to my side. | ||
| But it struck me as just irrelevant in a weird way. | ||
| It was like, we both love the country. | ||
| That fact right there, the fact that he's open minded. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To listen and to be convinced that, hey, maybe there's a better there's a better solution here that you haven't considered is, I think, one of his one of his great qualities. | ||
| And he means it, too. | ||
| And by the way, I mean, you mentioned his uncle. | ||
| It was like that he represents what that party used to be and is not anymore. | ||
| But I think there was perhaps a moment where there could have been a little alliance there. | ||
| Is that is that kind of off the table in terms of him running and all that? | ||
| Yeah, I really do respect him. | ||
| And like you said, I mean, he is a sincere person who really does care about our country and who shares many, if not all, but many of the same concerns that you and I have about the direction the country is headed in. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, this has been made public, but he asked me if I would be his running mate, and I really did give it serious consideration, but ultimately, respectfully, declined that offer. | ||
| Should I ask why? | ||
| I don't want to disrespect just the privacy of the conversations that I had with him. | ||
| But broadly, my goal has been and continues to be how and where can I best be of service and make the maximum positive impact that I can for the country. | ||
| And that's the basis for my decisions. | ||
| So with that in mind, what do you think the Republicans can do better? | ||
| I consider myself a Florida Republican. | ||
| I was very proud to register as a Republican here, but I know what that means. | ||
| It's very obvious what it means. | ||
| It means you believe in law and order, and you love the country, and you want secure elections. | ||
| It's just done right here, so I can say that. | ||
| I never say I'm a national Republican or something like that. | ||
| But it seems to me that the Republicans need to start doing some other things right. | ||
| They have to make the messaging on abortion even is just so messy. | ||
| What is it that you think they could adjust on so that someone like you, if not you specifically, could say, all right, I'll vote Republican going forward? | ||
| You know, I think the most important thing is really become that open, big tent party that is welcoming of people from a lot of different backgrounds. | ||
| Doesn't name-call Democrats, all of the different labels that I've been called over the years, and many others, that recognizes really what our founders envisioned for us, which is You know, just as they had many disagreements on a whole bunch of different things and had very public arguments about those disagreements, ultimately they came together around those fundamental principles of freedom, of the rule of law, of a limited role of government, of ensuring the protection of individual liberty, and so on. | ||
| I think there's an opportunity there for the Republican Party to go and make that case to people all across the country. | ||
| 43% of Americans are unaffiliated with either party as of a poll of like a week ago, Gallup poll. | ||
| 43% of Americans. | ||
| Instead of doing the usual fear-mongering of, well, don't vote for these guys because they're the bad guys, there is an opportunity there to rekindle that fire of what it means to be an American, to inspire hope. | ||
| And to focus on actual solutions. | ||
| Yes, there are very real problems that I go into in my book. | ||
| Every chapter is dedicated to, there's a chapter dedicated to how the Democrats are racializing everything and using identity politics to tear us apart. | ||
| There's a chapter dedicated to how they defy the existence of objective truth in our society, and every issue that I bring up is not a partisan issue. | ||
| It's something that every one of us as Americans should be concerned about, and also talks about solutions. | ||
| And I think if the Republican Party—clearly the Democrats are not interested in that. | ||
| That's just fact. | ||
| At least the Democrat leadership in Washington. | ||
| There is an opportunity for the Republican Party to speak to those 43% of unaffiliated voters, to the disenfranchised Democrats, to those who cherish peace and freedom and really care for our country and recognize like, hey, no, we're not, we might not agree on Some issues, a lot of issues, or even some really important ones. | ||
| But if we can come together and recognize that now is the moment, not a moment, but the moment where we must take a stand together to defend freedom and to defend democracy and defend liberty. | ||
| Let's stand together and do that and be open to have those dialogue and conversations where we can learn more about each other and why we hold the views that we do and find and forge that path forward together as a country. | ||
| So since he's the head of the party, I mean, do you think Trump can do that effectively? | ||
| I think, yeah, I think there is an opportunity to do that in his own way. | ||
| He obviously has his own way of delivering a message. | ||
| But I think some of the things that we've already seen of how he's making decisions to go and venture into, you know, Atlanta, cities where a Republican nominee or presumptive nominee normally wouldn't put in their top ten list of places to go and campaign, reaching out to folks who Like he did in 2016, where Democrats took people for granted. | ||
| And, you know, showing up says that I care and says, come and join us. | ||
| What do you think the last step has to be for some of the people that can't make that full move that people like you and I made? | ||
| I don't know if you saw this week, but Stephen A. Smith from ESPN, who's been, you know, he's basically been a liberal Democrat his whole life. | ||
| He's really been waking up. | ||
| And then he said something earlier this week about black people starting to vote for Trump, or at least breaking away from the Democrat Party. | ||
| He got hit over the head by the left media, and then he apologized. | ||
| But then he sort of made the case again. | ||
| He apologized while also still making the same case. | ||
| And I was watching it going, I've been there, man. | ||
| Like, I get it. | ||
| Do you think there's something that those people need just in that last little push? | ||
|
unidentified
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You know, I think it's just... Or do you think it's Trump specifically? | |
| In that if it was a candidate that was, say, less polarizing than Trump, that was one of my arguments for DeSantis was that it was like, this guy, he's, you can't say, well, you can say whatever you want, but none of the crazy stuff is true about him or the language or all that. | ||
| I think that given where we are in this election season, there are no more hypotheticals. | ||
| And so for us as voters who are looking at this, and for those like Stephen Smith and others who are just trying to grapple with what's going on, is to be very practical and see the country and this election for what it is. | ||
| And there are very clear contrasts. | ||
| And so it's really a matter of introspection for those who are undecided to just say, well, what do I really care about? | ||
| What is best for my own my family or my kids, for our community, and for a future in the country that we can celebrate and be proud of? | ||
| And again, in my view, when we kind of take away whatever the personal feelings or emotions are and just see this moment for what it is, the choice starts to become very clear. | ||
| Because we know exactly what will happen if President Biden and Kamala Harris are allowed to remain in power. | ||
| You know, this flickering of the light of liberty that we see happening right now, and we are facing that light being completely exterminated. | ||
| Have you shifted on any issues? | ||
| I've definitely asked you this once or twice. | ||
| I'm curious now. | ||
| There's, um, I'm sure, I'm sure there are some, but there are some also where... Well, let's say in the last year or two, as you've sort of gone through this new phase. | ||
| I think that the big, the big, uh, the big shift in how I view many issues occurred over, I would say, these last, yeah, these last four, five years in seeing how, um, Or even longer, actually. | ||
| You know, I would say it kind of started when President Trump was elected and seeing how the Democrat elite responded to that election. | ||
| And this whole Trump derangement syndrome was a very real thing. | ||
| And I was just, I'm thinking as we're sitting here, to some of the conversations that I had and heard in the cloakroom off the House floor, and how certain things that I saw For what they were, as far as decisions that were coming from the Trump White House, versus how they were being messaged and perceived by the Democratic caucus in the House or the National Democratic Party. | ||
| They were two very different things. | ||
| And I wondered, how is it that you guys are not seeing what's real, what I see? | ||
| You seem to be thinking this other thing is happening, and whether it's for political reasons or they were just literally blinded. | ||
| You take that experience and then you look at how increasingly tyrannical the Biden administration has become, the censorship, the Governance Disinformation Board, Ministry of Truth, whatever you want to call it. | ||
| There are so many different examples on every level of how More and more brazen they have become in taking away our fundamental rights and freedoms. | ||
| And so, you know, some of the shifts that I've had on different things has come from a shift in what's been happening in our country, how different people, different entities have really exposed themselves for who they really are, of seeing how over this long period of time that I've been involved in national democratic politics, how even those who claim to be Proposing certain policies or taking actions based out of compassion or care, again, their true intent is exposed for the fact. | ||
| If you really cared, you would recognize and learn from the fact that, oh, this proposal actually ended up harming people and not hurting them, so we should fix that and adjust that. | ||
| There was no, I can't think of a single example, quite frankly, where that happened. | ||
| When really, for me, even as a voter, that's what I would want from our elected leaders is, okay, you might have a good idea on how to solve this, but if as time goes on, you've got the proof points that it's not actually the best idea after all, I want you to shift. | ||
| I want you to find that better solution. | ||
| And I think that's an important thing for us to, again, when you ask what can the Republican Party do, be open-minded. | ||
| Welcome people in to have those kinds of conversations because we will get to a better place as a country if we do that. | ||
| So let me ask you one specific one that either you'll think is a major favor to you or a bit of a headache, which is guns, because I talk about you a lot on the show. | ||
| And yes, I'm going to ask you the VP question, obviously. | ||
| But you, to me, represent what the new Republican Party should look like in that wider sense. | ||
| But when I mention it, often in the comments, people go, but she's not there on the Second Amendment yet or something to that effect. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So has something shifted there or is there a reason people are saying that or I suppose what would be your current position? | ||
| I support the Second Amendment, and I talk about this in almost every speech that I give. | ||
| The phrase, shall not be infringed, is quite clear in the Second Amendment. | ||
| Once you get below that, okay, so what does that actually mean? | ||
| Because it can mean different things to different people. | ||
| So the really short answer is, I have always said that I support the Second Amendment. | ||
| I have always supported the Second Amendment. | ||
| What has shifted is two things. | ||
| Number one is Recognizing that what our founders warned against, why they passed the Second Amendment after the first, was ultimately to make sure that the American people have the ability to be that check on the power of a tyrannical government, to prevent us from going to a place where, you know, the people who first came here escaped from. | ||
| The Biden administration has proved that point to be very relevant and present in where we are as a country now. | ||
| And it caused me to look at the Second Amendment through a very different lens than I had previously. | ||
| And therefore, then, to look at, you know, different positions I had held. | ||
| And also, you know, whether you're talking about the Ten Commandments, you know, and Hawaii laws are very, very strict. | ||
| They've been strict. | ||
| I grew up there. | ||
| So this was the norm that I grew up with. | ||
| But looking at You know, the bump stock ban, looking at the pistol grip ban, like all of these different things, when you actually look at them for what they are, even though the talking point is, well, hey, this could help prevent the next mass shooting or, you know, this may help save a life. | ||
| The goal really is very clear, and they've made it clear, which is to disarm the American people. | ||
| Period. | ||
| And so, you know, I talk about the Second Amendment as I talk about the First Amendment because of what the threat that we are seeing to both That is being carried out by the Biden-Harris administration every single day. | ||
| My husband and I are gun owners. | ||
| There was recent legislation that was being put forward in Hawaii that would have made us and almost every other law-abiding gun owner in Hawaii a felon. | ||
| I spoke out strongly against that. | ||
| I hear the criticism too. | ||
| And I appreciate the opportunity to be able to share with people my own experience and my own views because, again, if the concerns that people have around the Second Amendment who are defenders of the Second Amendment are real for a reason, what I encourage them to do is Express those concerns and invite people who may disagree with you or who may have disagreed with you in the past to learn why you feel the way that you do. | ||
| That's the only way to bring about the kind of policy change that they want to see, that I want to see, that you want to see, that actually does defend our Second Amendment rights. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| And actually, that's why I asked the question, because it's one of the ones that I have shifted on more. | ||
| I was always for the Second Amendment. | ||
| But having lived here in Florida, seeing law and order, we've got guns in this house, especially after COVID and living in L.A. | ||
| where riots were going by my house and everything else. | ||
| I think that is one of the issues that, and post-October 7th, that liberals are suddenly like, oh, I should have a gun. | ||
| What does this mean? | ||
| And, oh, I didn't realize that the bump stock didn't mean exactly what I thought it did. | ||
| And the magazines where Biden doesn't even know what he's talking about and semi-automatic. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And that's again where, you know, I've gotten a lot of criticism for positions I've held before, but allow the space for people to learn. | ||
| I think that's really the big takeaway here. | ||
| There's one issue, I'll point to a vote that I took in Congress that did not allow, I believe it did not allow concealed carry reciprocity across the country. | ||
| And when I looked at this, I looked at it carefully and I thought, well, you know, Every state has different gun laws. | ||
| And so from a state's rights standpoint, I don't know that this bill makes sense because it would take one state's laws and disrespect another state's laws. | ||
| And so looking back and also learning more about the kinds of people who are impacted by this, I would not have, so I voted against that legislation. | ||
| I would have voted for it today or back then if I had had the information. | ||
| So you would vote for it now meaning you would want the reciprocity. | ||
| I would want the reciprocity because The Second Amendment is in our Bill of Rights. | ||
| It is making a very clear statement at a federal level that this is one of those issues that supersedes those states' rights. | ||
| And I heard stories from people like domestic violence victims who were fleeing their abuser from one state to the next. | ||
| And in one state, they were legally allowed to have concealed carry in the next state. | ||
| They were not. | ||
| And their own ability to defend themselves would be taken away without that reciprocity. | ||
| So anyway, that's one example. | ||
| And there are others. | ||
| But these are the kinds of issues that usually don't make kind of the top line headlines, but where there are very real implications. | ||
| You know, it's funny, as you were saying that, I was thinking the reason the Democrats win must be because, I've thought this before, but it sort of hit me really strong there, because you care about the Constitution. | ||
| Republicans tend to care about the Constitution. | ||
| You care about the rule of law. | ||
| You care about the process. | ||
| You care about states' rights and federalism and all of these things. | ||
| And I don't think they care about it at all at this point. | ||
| And because of that, it lends a certain energy to just the cause. | ||
| And that is extremely dangerous, I would say. | ||
| It is. | ||
| It is the most dangerous thing because our country is built on the foundation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. | ||
| These are our founding documents for a reason. | ||
| And so when we have it, and this is ultimately when people say, why did you leave the Democratic Party? | ||
| How could I, as an American, as a soldier who still wears the uniform in the Army Reserve, as someone who has served in every level of our country's government, How could I, in good conscience, associate myself with a political party that | ||
| That defies the Constitution at every step of the way. | ||
| That intentionally is trying to destroy our democracy and undermine our freedoms all in their endless pursuit of power. | ||
| And that's the message to me that cuts across party lines because I know there are a lot of other Democrats in the country who feel as you and I have felt and are walking their path and down this road that I hope in this election. | ||
| Whether you change parties or not, that's not really the point here. | ||
| The point is casting your vote, making that informed vote for what is in the best interest of, yes, our country, but of you as an individual American citizen and your family. | ||
| Do you feel that the Democrats just have the ace card always in their pocket, which is abortion? | ||
| That right before the election they can always freak out all of the women who are about to wake up and vote the other way and they say something crazy about abortion and then Republicans don't know how to message properly. | ||
| Like to me, as someone that's begrudgingly pro-choice, I thought that the reversal of Wade was good because it was just kicking it back to the states where it belongs. | ||
| Now it seems Republicans are pushing for some sort of like federal abortion law again, which is the reverse. | ||
| It's the reversal of the reversal, which is what I thought they wanted. | ||
| And it's like, guys, you're going to do it again. | ||
| And right before you know what's going to happen, end of October, old ads are going to say the Republicans are coming for abortion. | ||
| And then we're going to be there again. | ||
| I think whether it's abortion, you know, of course, the Democrats are signaling that that is their plan in this election. | ||
| In previous elections, it has been the border. | ||
| And what about hungry children and families who are escaping oppression and violence and abuse? | ||
| You know, in previous elections, it has been health care, when you look back to Obamacare. | ||
| So there are different issues that they choose to focus on as their weapon or bludgeon of choice. | ||
| But this one seems like the magic one. | ||
| But here's the point, is that with every one of these, yes, absolutely, it is one of the go-tos, but what they do is tug at people's heartstrings. | ||
| And and create the most extreme picture of if you vote for Republicans, this is what's going to happen. | ||
| And I think the the Gavin Newsom super PAC ad that just came out showing women racing down the street to try to or racing across state lines and getting arrested, of course, by a police officer in the South. | ||
| And like it Who's holding a pregnancy test. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| There is nothing in that that is even remotely have a string rooted in reality at all, but they're very good at exploiting people's worst fears, and they're better angels of just caring for people who are in a tough spot. | ||
| Or caring for, wanting to help people who may be suffering, understanding the complexity of humanity. | ||
| And ultimately they don't, they just, they don't care. | ||
| They don't care. | ||
| And their record proves that they don't care. | ||
| And so this is where they resort to that exploitation and that fear mongering for a single purpose, to win and to stay in power. | ||
| But you got to admire it at some level, huh? | ||
| Not what they do, but that they could do it so ruthlessly and mercilessly. | ||
| It's disgusting. | ||
| No, it's horrifically disgusting. | ||
| It's like the alien in the movie. | ||
| It just did what it wanted to do. | ||
| But a lot of people like the alien. | ||
| It was ripping people's guts out. | ||
| Let me ask you a couple other issue-related things. | ||
| We're obviously seeing all this craziness now on college campuses, which if people thought it was crazy five years ago, which a bunch of us warned about, it's significantly crazier just in the last couple of weeks. | ||
| What do we do about this younger generation now that has seemingly got all of the wrong ideas and is expressing them in most of the wrong ways? | ||
| Yeah, you know, I think the two big issues that, and I'm sure there are more, but the two big issues that I think we're seeing these massive protests about on college campuses is obviously the war between Israel and Hamas, and the other is, you know, the trans ideology that's being pushed on all of us in this country. | ||
| Oppressing women and girls. | ||
| Which is so bizarre. | ||
| You know, both of them I think are rooted, and I want to talk a little bit about both, but both are rooted in the underlying problem that we have a generation of young people who have been raised in an education system that doesn't teach the Constitution, that doesn't actually talk about our history and our founding and You know, in all parts of our history, but our founding and why even Martin Luther King, as the civil rights icon, didn't criticize those founding documents or our founders, but lifted those, their words up as the shining example, as the inspiration, as the source of hope for equality for all Americans, regardless of race. | ||
| That's not being taught in our schools. | ||
| And so we have a generation of young people who have no interest in serving in the military | ||
| because why would you want to die for a country that you don't really know why this country | ||
| is great and why it's important? | ||
| And you see no pushback when delivered this message of, well, hey, you can be a woman | ||
| if you want to be a woman anytime. | ||
| Anybody. | ||
| If Mike Tyson says, I'm a woman, then he should be allowed to go and box against any biological... I'd like to see that fight. | ||
| It would be R-rated, for sure. | ||
| But the fact that objective truth is so easily discarded, which should be something that we should all be able to—we should at least stand on that common ground, that's set aside. | ||
| And then the real, which is, to me, this is The greatest short- and long-term threat to freedom and democracy and civilization in the world is this radical Islamist ideology that Islamist terrorist groups like Hamas and others are very intentionally pushing around the world. | ||
| They are waging ideological warfare. | ||
| And you have all of these college kids primarily, but others as well, Who lack any grounding in an ideology of their own, any ideology that's rooted in freedom or basic | ||
| Liberties and rights and things that we celebrate in this country. | ||
| And so they are vulnerable and very susceptible to this Islamist ideology, which really is an ideology of Islamic rule, Sharia law, a caliphate over the world. | ||
| That is their state. | ||
| It's not a secret. | ||
| That is their stated goal. | ||
| And you can see the embers at Columbia right now. | ||
| And this is exactly so. | ||
| So, you know, someone asked me earlier today, well, what should Joe Biden do right now? | ||
| Like, let's let's just start with basic rule of law to make it so Jewish kids can walk free on the campus without having their lives being threatened, that they can coexist safely where everyone's free speech is respected. | ||
| it and recognize or they are not their lives are not being their existence is not being threatened. | ||
| But, but really, when when that attack happened on October 7, that should have been the wake up call | ||
| to President Biden and other leaders around the world that this is something far this is a threat | ||
| far greater than, oh, well, this is just the latest clash between Israel and Palestine. | ||
| This was an intentional act of terrorism with, yes, a very tragic kinetic attack, | ||
| but coupled with an intentional strategy of of driving compassion to influence people to come | ||
| to the cause of the radical Islamist terrorist groups in the world. | ||
| And Hamas has unfortunately been very successful in this. | ||
| Are you surprised that the West Israel maybe should have been more prepared for that secondary thing you're talking about, but that the United States, that other Western nations did not realize what the play was going to be here. | ||
| They weren't going to just defeat them militarily overnight, but that this was going to be the play? | ||
| Here's why I'm not surprised, is because especially in our country, We saw how President Bush, after 9-11, after the terrorist attack on 9-11, you know, he and subsequent administrations repeated that declaration that we will destroy these Islamist terrorist groups. | ||
| You know, the kinetic warfare was waged at varying levels and at different times, but that ideological... They directly said, we will defeat them militarily and ideologically. | ||
| Well, the ideological war never took place from our end. | ||
| It was being waged from the very beginning from these Islamist terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS and Hamas and others. | ||
| They have been doing this for a very long time, for hundreds and hundreds of years, quite frankly. | ||
| We are seeing this play out today directly because our leaders failed to wage the ideological war for one of two reasons. | ||
| Number one, either they were intellectually incapable of communicating that and drawing the distinction between Islamist terrorists versus, you know, peace-loving Muslim people. | ||
| Or they were afraid. | ||
| Afraid of being called Islamophobes for calling out radical Islamism for what it is. | ||
| This was something that under the Obama administration I was roundly criticized for by Democrats primarily for You remember when they made that shift in their decision, instead of calling them Islamist terrorists, they started saying, well, we're countering violent extremism. | ||
| How do you defeat an enemy unless you correctly identify them and you can communicate what their motivation is, what they're trying to accomplish? | ||
| It's not just like, oh, we want to go and conduct insurgency. | ||
| There is a very clearly defined objective of radical Islamism, and they have been and continue to wage that ideological war with no response or any attempt at taking the offense coming from Leaders in the United States and other countries in the West. | ||
| And you see in some countries in Europe. | ||
| Someone told me yesterday in France, for example, you've got over 25% of the population in France are Islamists who abide by Sharia law in France of all places. | ||
| So there's no stretch of an imagination to recognize Their goal is to be able to implement Sharia law everywhere in the world. | ||
| Everywhere in the world. | ||
| And if we in the United States continue down the path that we are on, where we have leaders who are too afraid or who are incapable of waging that ideological warfare, and a completely open border where anyone and everyone from anywhere in the world can literally walk across our border and disappear in our country, we will end up Yet again, losing all that we love and celebrate about living in a free society in America. | ||
| One of the things I keep saying on the show is that what I'm worried about is that if you go to Israel, they're serious people because they have had to deal with serious stuff for a long time. | ||
| We're not that serious here. | ||
| We're way bigger. | ||
| We're way more divided just because of cultures and ethnicities and everything else. | ||
| Like if something terrible happens here, something that we can't even think of, I'm always more worried about the things I can't think of than the things I can. | ||
| To me, what we will do to ourselves in the aftermath of that will be worse probably than what they might cook up. | ||
| It's hard to say. | ||
| You know, it's hard to say when you look at different countries who are, you know, already under some form of radical Islamic governance who have access to nuclear weapons. | ||
| And, you know, these are some of them, the tactical nuclear weapons that can be more easily transportable. | ||
| And you look at the sleeper cells that we already know exist here in the United States. | ||
| You look at the numbers of people who have not been identified. | ||
| There's like over 150 known individuals on the terror watch list who have entered our country illegally and been caught. | ||
| What about the millions of other people who have entered our country? | ||
| Who are they? | ||
| Where are they? | ||
| What is their intent? | ||
| Really, when it comes right down to it, you know, the FBI has no idea. | ||
|
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Yeah, that's a scary thought. | |
| It really is. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Because even, you know, when you start thinking through what is it going to take to How do you begin to start finding people who, you know, I was in San Diego at the border and people who are literally coming across the border, those who go through Border Patrol, maybe they give a false name. | ||
| I saw dozens, just in the couple of days that I was there, I saw ID cards from countries around the world, passports from around the world, either halfway burned, torn up into pieces, right along the border wall. | ||
| What are they presenting then if they go through border patrol processing and they're just giving a name? | ||
| How can they be vetted? | ||
| You can't be vetted. | ||
| Really, truly, you can't really be vetted if you've got no identification. | ||
| So it is a daunting task before us that we better tackle immediately. | ||
| Otherwise, just by virtue of who exists in our country, we are going to see a very, very serious shift. | ||
| All right, let me ask you one other thing, and then the VP question, so you can just put that one aside for the moment. | ||
| This whole journey that you've been on, I mean, we've talked a lot about politics, but I know for me, it changed me fundamentally as a human. | ||
| I think I've become a better human. | ||
| I understand the world a little bit better. | ||
| I've certainly, I think, reconnected to family and tradition in different ways. | ||
| I think I'm spiritually different. | ||
| That also has to do with being on tour with Jordan Peterson and all that. | ||
| And I wonder what all of this, and now going out there and talking to people that maybe you thought didn't like you before, or that didn't like you before, or just the whole thing that you've gone through, how's that shifted you as a person, spiritually, maybe religiously, the whole thing, having nothing to do with the political part? | ||
| Coming from Hawaii, where the aloha spirit is the heart of our culture, that inspires us to treat each other with respect, that recognizes we are all children of God, no matter who you are, your race, or where you come from, your story, your background. | ||
| I have and continue to try to live my life inspired by and rooted in that spirit of Aloha, which means even as a member of Congress for all the time that I was there, I had... That must push it. | ||
| I had so many friends who were Democrats and Republicans from the get-go. | ||
| And and so for me, it was never an us versus them from a partisan standpoint. | ||
| And, you know, even as a as a longtime Democrat, I was welcomed by many of my Republican friends. | ||
| When Abraham and I got married, we had, you know, top we had Steny Hoyer and Kevin McCarthy there. | ||
| We had members of Democrat members of Congress, Republican members of Congress who were genuinely, sincerely very, very good friends. | ||
| What I've experienced after leaving the Democratic Party is a kind of freedom rooted in Escaping a party that constantly was filled with purity tests and constantly moving targets. | ||
| If you're on the football field, it's like, okay, there's the goalposts. | ||
| Well, constantly moving based on whatever issue was the cause of the day or whoever had the pulpit on any given day, and just a party that was increasingly crazy. | ||
|
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And like, how do you, people like, how do you explain this? | |
| How do you justify? | ||
| Like, I just can't. | ||
| I just can't. | ||
| And so leaving the Democratic Party, Immediately being invited to go and campaign for Republicans. | ||
| And I would have, if there was a common sense minded Democrat who said, Tulsi, I'm in a tough race. | ||
| I care about the same things you care about. | ||
| I love our country. | ||
| Would you come help me? | ||
| I absolutely would have done that. | ||
| Not a single person reached out. | ||
| And yet I got calls from... Welcome to the party, pal. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I got calls from people in Michigan, Indiana, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, North Carolina, Illinois, candidates from a lot of different states, New York, who were in those swing districts. | ||
| He said, hey, I recognize that you might be able to talk to people that I can't reach because I'm a Republican. | ||
| And I was very happy to go out and help. | ||
| And here's what I have experienced. | ||
| Um... | ||
| Almost to a person. | ||
| Yes, there will always be detractors, no matter what. | ||
| You're never good enough for everybody, which is fine. | ||
| But I have experienced overwhelmingly people who recognize that I love my country and who share that love and who have nothing but warmth and their version of the Aloha spirit. | ||
| And it's been a wonderful experience. | ||
| And that is where I find hope. | ||
| Dave, is that across the country, I know that there are far more people who love our country than there are those who want to destroy it. | ||
| And so my personal mission between now and November 5th is to try to reach as many of those people as possible who have not yet made up their mind in this election, who may feel politically homeless, and share my story in the hopes that they come to the same conclusions that you and I have. | ||
| So on that note, I'll ask you the last question. | ||
| You know what it is already, but I'll frame it a little bit differently, which is that I think you should be the choice. | ||
| It is obvious to me, like it's really obvious to me that if Trump wants to win this election, he needs to bring in what you represent and you are you. | ||
| So if you get the call, I've heard you answer this at least once already, but I sense that the momentum is going to go in that way. | ||
| Like, you ready? | ||
| I'm ready. | ||
| I'm ready because I know what is at stake in a deep and visceral way in this election. | ||
| I'm not on a ballot. | ||
| I could be home right now in Hawaii and surfing and kicking back and relaxing. | ||
| But I have chosen, I won't be home until after this election is done, because I know what's at stake. | ||
| And if that call came, I would say yes, and I'd be honored to serve my country in that way, and to be in a position first to help win this election, to stop the Democrat elite from destroying our country, and then actually begin the real work of getting our country back on track. | ||
| And that starts with having people of courage in our government who care more about the country than they do about the political elite in Washington, and actually rooting out the deep rot that exists within our bureaucracies, the administrative state, the deep state, In Washington. | ||
| It's going to take a team of joyful warriors to go and fight that fight, because as we've seen time and time again, there are a lot of powerful people who are unelected in doing everything they can to hold on to their power at the cost of the well-being of the American people. | ||
| You think she'd be better than Kamala Harris? | ||
|
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Is that even a question? | |
| Great to see you. | ||
| It's so good to catch up. | ||
| Thank you for having me on your show. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop screaming, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. |
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