April 21, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:13:06
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I feel like there's just way too much money to be made to leave racism alone. | ||
| I mean, you look at it everywhere, but that's certainly what's promoted on social media. | ||
| That gets you clicks. | ||
| There's too many people out there making money. | ||
| I think I saw, I forgot which article, but a congresswoman from Texas, was that today? | ||
| Where she came out and said that black people should now not pay taxes. | ||
| Oh yeah, we covered it on my show this morning. | ||
| Yeah, reparations and not pay taxes. | ||
| It's a pretty sweet gig. | ||
| Shut up! | ||
| Stop it! | ||
| You're making a fool of yourselves. | ||
| And once again... You mean you don't want some of my cash? | ||
| Well, I'll take some of your cash, because you've got real cash. | ||
| However, you know, like, what are we doing? | ||
| Because the implication is that we're not able to, you know? | ||
| It's just like affirmative action and the voting laws in Georgia. | ||
| I go crazy because we want to be treated equally, but then here, give me this, because I'm not able to go earn it on my own. | ||
| I can't. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Well, I'm very excited to sit down with once mainstream broadcaster, now independent broadcaster, Megyn Kelly. | ||
| You see what I did there? | ||
| Come on. | ||
| Happy to meet you. | ||
| And now look how you start. | ||
| Here's the problem. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Megyn Kelly and I, as far as I know, don't look anything like Joe Rogan and Dana White look alike. | ||
| So you failed on your attempt to get me. | ||
| That's really good. | ||
| The lights are very bright. | ||
| I don't see color. | ||
| That's how non-racist I am. | ||
| Oh my god, I love you. | ||
| I'm trying to go more blonde to blend the gray in, so maybe that's the Megan. | ||
| That's what's going on there. | ||
| Sage, I am so excited. | ||
| I feel like we already did a show in five minutes just sitting here, but I'm so excited that you're here because for a million reasons, like basically I wanted to be on ESPN. | ||
| That was what my dream was way back then. | ||
| I didn't know that. | ||
| I wanted to be an ESPN anchor. | ||
| I had no idea. | ||
| When I was in college in the 90s, uh, watching Olbermann, who's now completely lost his mind, and Craig Kilborn and Dan Patton. | ||
| That was what I wanted to do. | ||
| I ended up doing this. | ||
| It's all right. | ||
| It's okay. | ||
| Uh, but that you've gone from the corporate thing to the independent thing. | ||
| You're now opening up about what a lot of that corporate control was. | ||
| You're in the mix with my man, Bill Maher. | ||
| Like there's just so much happening and you're, and you're like in the news now too. | ||
| There's a lot going on with Sage Steel. | ||
| That's not a question. | ||
| Just start talking. | ||
| You got a lot cooking, right? | ||
| Well, alright, let's do this. | ||
| To your point at the end there, I'm not trying to make news and I'm a little uncomfortable with it. | ||
| It's amazing though what comes when you just begin to speak your mind. | ||
| Honestly, I've asked a question, so I'm not trying to make headlines, but somehow it's happening. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So actually why don't we back up for just one second. | ||
| Let's give everybody the kind of one minute bio just so they can fully catch up on you and then we'll go to all that stuff. | ||
| So where the hell did you come from? | ||
| How did you get here? | ||
|
unidentified
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And then we'll go. | |
| Well my dream was like yours at age 11 now. | ||
| I might have beaten you to it. | ||
| To be a sportscaster and then specifically to be on ESPN. | ||
| So it took me 11 years of TV, you know, local, regional, to get there. | ||
| And honestly, the fact that I fulfilled that dream, I still, I was there for 16 and a half years. | ||
| When I walked into the SportsCenter studio, I would still pinch myself. | ||
| It never got lost on me. | ||
| And I literally appreciate every moment, even the stuff that hurt, even the stuff that sucked. | ||
| You know, especially towards the last few years. | ||
| But I mean, from there, it was a kind of transformation, if I look back in hindsight, of being like this pleaser. | ||
| That's a disease I'm still trying to get over. | ||
| Can you ever be cured from that? | ||
| I hope so. | ||
| It's tough. | ||
| It's definitely a tough one, especially in our business. | ||
| Especially, yes. | ||
| Personally, professionally, like all the things. | ||
| So to let go of that and I mean, once you get canceled a couple times, it just gets easier. | ||
| And you're like, well, screw it. | ||
| I'm already canceled. | ||
| I might as well say this now, too. | ||
| But it's just crazy to think of who I was my whole life, and then beginning at ESPN, to finding that voice. | ||
| But it was only because when you kind of get pushed into a corner so many times, you have a decision to make. | ||
| And I just got backed in that corner and had to In my opinion, you know, obviously I made the decision I thought was right for me to stand up and have a voice about being treated differently compared to my peers at the network because I didn't fit the narrative. | ||
| Not just for me, and I have three teenage kids and they're watching and it was important. | ||
| Okay, so before we get into the stuff that you've been making news about, which is obviously related to all that, When you get to ESPN, you're thrilled, you got your dream gig, you're pinching yourself every day. | ||
| When did you start to see that something was not quite right? | ||
| Because my audience knows I don't watch pro sports anymore because I can't take the wokeness and the politics and anything else. | ||
| So if you look at my YouTube search thing, I watch 90s NBA games. | ||
| That's all I watch. | ||
| Which is the best era, by the way. | ||
| Clyde the Glide was my hero. | ||
| That was a blazer ball from 92 when they were in the finals against the Bulls. | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| Honestly, that bad boy Detroit Pistons era. | ||
| Pacers, Knicks, Michael Jordan. | ||
| That's the era that I loved and fell in love with the NBA. | ||
| But when did you realize that something was not quite right there? | ||
| When Trump got elected. | ||
| And that night, and I lived out in Arizona, I was in Scottsdale because I was doing just NBA, NBA Countdown for ESPN ABC, and I didn't want to live in LA, so I'd just fly in on Thursdays to Sundays from Arizona, which was the perfect setup. | ||
| And I remember being in Arizona on my couch watching the results come in, and we were floored. | ||
| You know, you thought this could never happen. | ||
| And then I'm on Twitter, and I'm watching. | ||
| The highest ranking executives at ESPN at the time tweeting about Trump being elected and how sickened and disgusted they were. | ||
| And I'm like, these are bosses. | ||
| These are decision makers. | ||
| These are trying to be journalists. | ||
| And if that's what the bosses are putting out? | ||
| So that's when I was like, wow, what is this? | ||
| And then from there, you know, and I thought a lot about it lately, from there, that was the beginning of the end to me. | ||
| I mean, I think it was interesting before then when Obama was president, like we were, there was a love fest at ESPN for him. | ||
| And listen, I love the fact that our country had gotten to the point that we could elect somebody who looked like me, actually very much like me with a white mom and a black dad. | ||
| It was just like, oh my gosh, I didn't vote for him, but I was glad, you know, From the evolution part of our country to get to, you know, a minority in office. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| I didn't know you didn't vote for him. | ||
| So were you, so I consider you, I don't know, I hate all these stupid labels, but you seem like somewhat conservative-ish leaning to me now, let's say, or something like that. | ||
| But were you always sort of more conservative in that sense? | ||
| Uh, you know, I, yes, but I never, I never talked about it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| For sure. | ||
| It didn't matter when you were, right. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, and I, I, People say, oh, your dad was in the military, which he was. | ||
| Career army officer, West Point grad, and like the whole thing. | ||
| So the best upbringing because of that. | ||
| So diverse. | ||
| Four different countries. | ||
| We lived in by the time I was 11 years old. | ||
| So I saw the world, you know? | ||
| But I remember asking my parents who they voted for in 1988. | ||
| I was in a high school civics class and came home and wanted to talk about it. | ||
| And they're like, none of your business. | ||
| And I was like, what are you talking about? | ||
| I'm just trying to... And they said, no, no, no, we don't want to influence you. | ||
| You go do your homework. | ||
| You go figure out who you want to vote for and why. | ||
| It has nothing to do with us. | ||
| And it's also very private. | ||
| So that's how I was raised. | ||
| And so I went and did my homework. | ||
| And I remember going to college. | ||
| I graduated from high school in 1990. | ||
| I remember going to college. | ||
| I went to Indiana University and, you know, paired up with roommates in the dorms. | ||
| And they had, you know, all the pro-choice stickers. | ||
| And I was also raised Catholic. | ||
| Not pro-choice. | ||
| And you know, listen, my opinions have gone all different directions throughout my life, especially since then, but that's when I had to dig deeper. | ||
| Like, okay, this feels wrong, that issue in particular, this feels wrong to me, and why? | ||
| So I came to it on my own, and I think through the years, probably got more and more conservative. | ||
| But what do they say? | ||
| Fiscally conservative, socially liberal. | ||
| I think it's such a cop-out half the time. | ||
| And because at the end of the day, like, I don't care who you vote for. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| I don't care who you sleep with. | ||
| I don't care about any of it. | ||
| Are you a good human? | ||
| Are you kind? | ||
| How do you treat me? | ||
| Most importantly, how do you treat others when the lights aren't on, right? | ||
| Like, how are you with your staff? | ||
| Like, that tells me, or, you know, a waitstaff at a restaurant. | ||
| I'm sorry that I was hitting that guy when you walked in here. | ||
| Listen, I was going to keep it a secret. | ||
| I didn't realize you were here. | ||
| He has a smile on his face still, so you must pay him well. | ||
| Yeah, they're compensated for the beatings. | ||
| Quite well. | ||
| So yeah, I feel like it happened naturally through my own research, and I believe your opinions are based on your experiences. | ||
| And so that's what it was for me. | ||
| And just, you know, patriotism, that was a big thing. | ||
| When you grow up on military bases around the world, you know, when that anthem comes on, you stand at attention, you know? | ||
| You shake hands a certain way, like you talk to your parents and adults and teachers a certain way. | ||
| And I think through the years I realized it all kind of falls in line with something that's a little bit more conservative. | ||
| So you start seeing the shift literally on election night and then most people that have a red pilling, although it sounds like you were already conservative, but like that are waking up to something, there's usually like a series of events. | ||
| Did a couple things then happen in a row or was it just all kind of connected to the Trump thing? | ||
| You mean at ESPN? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, there was that, and then one of my former colleagues, Jamel Hill, went on a little rant about Trump on Twitter, like next-level rant. | ||
| And then people think she was suspended because of that, and that's not why she was initially suspended. | ||
| It was because of what happened a few weeks later when she was saying, well, listen, if you have issues with some of these race issues in the NFL, well, then you need to boycott the products. | ||
| And when you tell people to boycott A league, when we have a league, a partnership with them, that's why she got suspended, and that's what led to her demise at ESPN, and she's certainly gone on to do her own thing, and successfully, I guess it's all relative, you know? | ||
| You know, I, sorry to interrupt, but I saw her at LAX airport a couple years ago with Michael Jordan, not basketball, Michael Jordan, the actor, Michael Jordan. | ||
| She was wearing shoes that had to be $10,000 shoes, and I was like, Well, when we were in Connecticut, she bought a Maserati, and that's what she drove onto campus every day. | ||
| She's complaining about capitalism all day long, walking in the airport with Michael Jordan with her fur shoes. | ||
| The hypocrisy is thick. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think, well, when we were in Connecticut, she bought a Maserati, and that's what she drove onto campus every day. | ||
| That's tough. | ||
| Go get it, girl! | ||
| That's what I'm saying, but just don't be hypocritical on the other side. | ||
| She came from nothing, and a single mom. | ||
| I think her dad was in the picture. | ||
| She's come from so much, and she is brilliant. | ||
| She is. | ||
| I've always respected her. | ||
| We used to be friends. | ||
| I respect her game, man. | ||
| I really do. | ||
| But we just need to be consistent, I think, with some of the points that we like to make. | ||
| Do you think she, I don't want to make this all about her, but do you think she believes a lot of that stuff? | ||
| Because I think there's a certain set of people that are the true believers, and then there's another set that are like, oh, that's the road I can go down to become relevant. | ||
| She wasn't like this when I was friends with her. | ||
| She wasn't. | ||
| We just had a good time. | ||
| She was, you know, doing first take and really getting, she was a writer, a very talented writer, and then got into the TV thing. | ||
| And we had some great, awesome conversations through the years. | ||
| And I miss that with her because she had experienced life very differently than I did as a young girl. | ||
| And I loved those conversations. | ||
| I grew up with, I just feel like the best possible childhood. | ||
| No money, military, you're not going, you're not going to get rich in the army, right? | ||
| But two parents together, 53 years now, like I'm so blessed and I realize that, but I so respect and want to learn from people who grew up differently. | ||
| And I loved learning about that from her. | ||
| So it is what it is. | ||
| Again, I don't care who she voted for. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| It's just that human part that, you know, if I based my relationships and friendships on politics, my circle would look very different, you know? | ||
| And by the way, I think that military upbringing is where that stems from, where like, to me, it is the most diverse place where, I mean, there's so many different races and it just didn't matter. | ||
| Green, blue, white. | ||
| Like we had neighbors who were Norwegian on this side and from Turkey on the other side. | ||
| Kids, nobody spoke each other's languages, but we figured it out. | ||
| We moved, we cried, you know? | ||
| Is that the weird thing that's happening now more than anything else? | ||
| I mean, you mentioned the thing about how you treat people and everything else. | ||
| I absolutely believe that, and it's how I try to live my life, and I think it actually is what most people believe. | ||
| I do too! | ||
| And they just don't know how to... they don't know how to connect that to, like, the craziness of social media and everything else that's happening culturally. | ||
| I think there's a fear to do it, you know? | ||
| And now, look, everything you say is judged and looked at through a microscope, and then, you know, they want to accuse you of something. | ||
| Do you know how many times I've been called a racist? | ||
| But then it's like, wait, black people can't be racist. | ||
| Wait, it depends on who you talk to, it depends on the day, it depends on the topic, because it's all just a free-for-all. | ||
| There's a lot of money being made by people claiming racism and sexism and, you know, I'm a transphobe also apparently because I'm sticking up for women's sports and don't think transgender athletes should be, so that automatically makes me transphobic. | ||
| Are you saying you don't have an irrational fear of trans people? | ||
| It'd be transphobia. | ||
| Please help define all the things for me. | ||
| It's different every day. | ||
| I hate the way that as a company, ESPN chose to go. | ||
| Because when our new president, I still say our, right? | ||
| When the new president came in, I think it was 2018-ish, 19, I don't remember. | ||
| He was like, we don't need to be mixing politics and sports. | ||
| It's great. | ||
| Jimmy Fattaro. | ||
| Great. | ||
| But was it too late at that time? | ||
| No, some things had happened and the Del Hill thing had happened, but then that president was ousted. | ||
| There was whole drama around John Skipper's departure. | ||
| And then Jimmy came in and it was like, listen, this is how we're going to do it. | ||
| What did Michael Jordan say in the 80s? | ||
| Republicans buy sneakers too. | ||
| It's very simple. | ||
| Don't we want everybody to watch our network? | ||
| Don't you want everybody to buy your products? | ||
| Why are we like, you're not gonna make money. | ||
| It's not a good business model. | ||
| So he came in and really changed that. | ||
| And there was a directive that we don't mix that. | ||
| So then what happened that it went the other way? | ||
| Because then two years later, suddenly we got BLM logos on NBA court. | ||
| I know they're at least partners, not fully controlled equally, but like what happened then that every time I turned on SportsCenter being like, okay, I could try to do this again. | ||
| It was all back. | ||
| It was all race and gender and the rest of it. | ||
| COVID pandemic and George Floyd within two, three months of each other. | ||
| And that was it. | ||
| And like, literally, I remember watching one morning, watching first take and watching a bunch of people on there, Maria Taylor and a bunch of people on and their tears and, you know, just anger and yelling and screaming. | ||
| And I remember going, what's happening here? | ||
| That's it. | ||
| And unfortunately that was the case, because you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube once it's out. | ||
| And if you're a white executive telling a black talent, you know, how to, you can't do this here, well then, you know. | ||
| Unfortunately, I think, first of all, there are certainly cases of prejudice and racism that exist everywhere. | ||
| I mean, hello, as long as there's humanity, it's going to exist. | ||
| And it can go all, it doesn't matter what color your skin is or where you're from, it's always going to exist. | ||
| So stop with the end racism. | ||
| Like that's the goal, but let's be realistic, right? | ||
| Number one. | ||
| But number two, like I, There are people who took advantage of the situation. | ||
| I don't even need to mention names. | ||
| I think if we follow some of the sports news, you can feel that. | ||
| And people took advantage of that moment, which breaks my heart because there are cases that do need to be exposed. | ||
| But now, if you just ask a question, You're done. | ||
| And I think that's heartbreaking, because then it's like that boy who cried wolf. | ||
| What happens when there is a moment where someone was treated poorly because of their skin color? | ||
| And again, it can be against white people as well, as I think we've seen, and people choose to overlook. | ||
| I hate that I have white friends who just want to have a conversation, want to ask a question, but there's total fear, and there should be. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So that's why now I'm like, uh-uh. | ||
| You know, I feel like I have a unique perspective from being biracial and being raised by a white mother and a black father and really close to all of my family. | ||
| The funny thing is, even though I've heard you talk a million times, I actually didn't know you were biracial, but it doesn't shift anything. | ||
| I only judge you on by what you say. | ||
| I understand what you mean at a biographical level, but like, are you going to say what you say? | ||
| I just know what it's like for both sides, you know? | ||
| My mom's family, and it turned out great years later, but my mom's parents disowned her for, you know, Irish, Italian, Catholic from Massachusetts for marrying a black man. | ||
| Made my mom at 21, 22 years old choose between them and this man that loved her and she loved. | ||
| So first of all, that's real courage, right? | ||
| 53 years in now. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I mean, they're the bar for me and for my siblings for sure. | ||
| And so to see that and the courage it takes on both sides, if anyone really is bored, like on my ex handle, it's been pinned for six or seven years. | ||
| NFL Films did this amazing story on my, initially on my brother who works in the NFL, but then it turned into a story on my parents. | ||
| And I learned a lot about my parents and those tough decisions they had to make in 1971 thanks to this NFL film space. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| So my perspective on courage is maybe different from others based on, again, my experience and my parents' experience. | ||
| So I look at some of the complaints that are out there right now and I'm like, Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Stop. | ||
| We have a lot, we have gone backwards. | ||
| Like, my parents talk about it, from that era coming off the civil rights era, you know, to now, and what people complain about. | ||
| It's like, what? | ||
| Well, we're basically the same age and it's like, there was nothing cool about racism or hating gay people in the 80s and 90s. | ||
| Like, it's not to say everything was perfect, as you said, but it's like, it was largely done and now we've reversed that. | ||
| By choice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've been saying this, I feel like there's just way too much money to be made to leave racism alone. | ||
| I mean, you look at it everywhere, but that's certainly what's promoted on social media. | ||
| That gets you clicks. | ||
| There's too many people out there making money. | ||
| I think I saw, I forgot which article, but a congresswoman from Texas, was that today, where she came out and said that Black people should now not pay taxes. | ||
| Oh yeah, we covered it on my show this morning. | ||
| For reparations. | ||
| Yeah, reparations and not pay taxes. | ||
| It's a pretty sweet gig. | ||
| Shut up! | ||
| Stop it! | ||
| You're making a fool of yourselves. | ||
| And once again... You think you don't want some of my cash? | ||
| Well, I'll take some of your cash, because you've got real cash. | ||
| However, you know, like, what are we doing? | ||
| Because the implication is that we're not able to, you know? | ||
| It's just like affirmative action and the voting laws in Georgia. | ||
| I go crazy because we want to be treated equally, but then here, give me this, because I'm not able to go earn it on my own. | ||
| I can't. | ||
| And so, and again, I saw true love. | ||
| In my household growing up with mom and dad, and from my aunts and uncles and cousins on both sides. | ||
| In our family reunions, the 4th of July, my parents would have a big bash. | ||
| I mean, you didn't know who the hell was with whom. | ||
| All these mixed babies and all over the place. | ||
| And I love it. | ||
| Isn't that America? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Isn't that what we claim it to be, this big melting pot? | ||
| But so many Americans are choosing to push these narratives and choosing to divide us further. | ||
| And I'm just not going to be quiet about it anymore because I think it's BS. | ||
| And you're free. | ||
| You're not under corporate control anymore. | ||
| So actually, let's shift to that because I think everyone gets the point on race. | ||
| So you think we could do another 40 minutes with no race? | ||
| I think we can do it. | ||
| I think we can do it. | ||
| So the thing that had you in the news over the last two weeks or so is that you came out and said that a ESPN interview that you did with Joe Biden, he was two months into office, was basically hyper controlled. | ||
| I think you said literally every word that you had to say was run by censors and everything else. | ||
| So for just people that haven't heard that, can you kind of quickly lay that out and then we'll talk about all the repercussions since then? | ||
| Yeah, I, um, it was, do you want to do it? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay, we'll let you know. | ||
| Here's how it's going to go down. | ||
| It was, I mean, it went through I don't know how many iterations and editing. | ||
| And listen, we had some super talented editors there, news editors, one in particular that was hands-on with this one who I love and trust, and everybody takes orders, you know? | ||
| I don't know if it was, if it came from the White House, if it was, probably, that would shock me. | ||
| Again, there's a lot of good people at ESPN. | ||
| I'm thinking, they come up with the questions and share it, that might, sure, that certainly might have happened. | ||
| I did not have that conversation with people. | ||
| Were you worried that the questions that you guys were coming up with were going to get to him first? | ||
| Or did you feel like it was just going to be how it was by the nature of the system? | ||
| Picking my battles. | ||
| And I think that there had been some things that had happened through that time in general where I was like, okay. | ||
| But I wasn't going to say no. | ||
| You know? | ||
| I was in a different space then, certainly. | ||
| That was 2021. | ||
| But I had picked a couple of battles before then. | ||
| And it was scary. | ||
| So with this one, it was like, I'm going to keep my mouth shut and push back a little bit and tweak some wording and what about this and that. | ||
| And they listened. | ||
| But at the end of the day, this is what you're doing and this is what you say. | ||
| And yeah, don't go off script. | ||
| I mean, there's part of me that says I wouldn't have changed anything, because I think for some, there's a time in my career where I probably didn't pick my battles wisely enough. | ||
| This is one that was a lot bigger than me. | ||
| And I just knew, like, you're not going to win this one. | ||
| Do it. | ||
| Do it well. | ||
| And either way, you're going to lose if you can't, you know, if you accept it. | ||
| I didn't lose until it came up recently. | ||
| I could have kept it quiet. | ||
| But it's actually a win now. | ||
| I guess it's a win. | ||
| Because you're being open about it. | ||
| I'm being open about it, correct. | ||
| And again, someday I will be able to talk more openly about, I think, what led to and why they asked me to be the one to do it. | ||
| Well, do you want to do that now? | ||
| Because I saw you on... Except other people. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| Is that what you hinted to Adam Carolla the other day? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| We saw you on Carolla and you said that thing. | ||
| We played the clip and I was like, all right, well Sage is coming in here in a couple days. | ||
| So there's something that affects other people at the network that Is the reason that you can't discuss it further. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And I'm just trying to be respectful because there's so many good people that are left there. | ||
| I'm praying for them every day. | ||
| Um, and I just need to make sure of some things first, but I listen, I'm sure to have me interview that president of all people, probably not their first choice, you know, but I think that some things that had happened prior, probably like we'd better give this one to her. | ||
| I'm really trying to read your mind right now. | ||
| I know! | ||
| I'm like, body language, give me something here. | ||
| Give me a glass of wine. | ||
| Oh, that could be arranged. | ||
| There's like four big bottles of tequila right behind you. | ||
| I thought my eyes went there. | ||
| Oh, you're a tequila girl? | ||
| It's a little early for that. | ||
| Actually, I'm not. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| Oh, you're a wine girl. | ||
| I'm a wine girl and the tequila doesn't end well. | ||
| Doesn't end well usually. | ||
| Let's see how the next few minutes go. | ||
| I'm afraid right now. | ||
| Okay, well that's fair. | ||
| What was I saying? | ||
| Well, that there's reasons that you don't want to discuss that But the reason why I am glad to hear about it being a win is because, again, I'm in deep at this point, right? | ||
| And the COVID stuff has been going on, and personally I just got a divorce, and I have three teenagers. | ||
| Next year I'll have all three in college. | ||
| That's where I really do need your prayers, to be able to pay those bills, you know? | ||
| And had brought up some other issues that went public with me being treated differently because of my views and not being included in certain things on our network air because of my views. | ||
| And so I admit that that had gotten big and I'm like, oh, it was scary. | ||
| I have to provide for my kids. | ||
| And I'm the only one that provides for my kids financially, right? | ||
| So there's some real-life things where you have to make decisions. | ||
| I had been silent about other things, not so silent about others, and for that moment it was fine. | ||
| So now, to be able to talk about it, because I hadn't even thought about it, Dave, honestly, it's like, okay, that's gone, check. | ||
| By speaking, I'm realizing so many other things I had buried, and I think that's what's coming up right now. | ||
| Well, that's what I mean about that. | ||
| It starts a series of things in motion, because, okay, so the race stuff, fine. | ||
| Then there's this corporate control thing related to the president of the United States. | ||
| Then the COVID stuff. | ||
| I mean, I'm sure there's other things, too. | ||
| So it was just like a bunch of little droppings along the way. | ||
| So many things. | ||
| I had a two-hour live show every single day, and people don't write our scripts. | ||
| So in your next life, when you do end up on SportsCenter, just know you're crashing on your own. | ||
| And we have had a great research staff and great producers on my show in particular. | ||
| But we're crashing all day. | ||
| I don't have time. | ||
| It's like, what's next? | ||
| We gotta go. | ||
| And I have bills to pay. | ||
| So you overlook it. | ||
| The coolest part about it, I think right now, is to just remind people that this is what they're doing on a sports network. | ||
| in an election cycle right now, you better question everything you see on everything | ||
| else mainstream media and to make sure that you do your homework and your research as you make | ||
| your voting decisions because we all know elections have consequences. So, and it sounds like talking | ||
| points but it was driven home to me with this story coming up because this is an interview | ||
| about baseball with the president. | ||
| Of course, there were political parts to it because it's coming off of COVID. | ||
| And then, you know, they were moving the Major League Baseball All-Star game they were considering out of Atlanta because of the racist voting laws in Georgia. | ||
| So that was... So black people can get IDs? | ||
| I just wanted to know about that. | ||
| I have done the homework. | ||
| And it's... And yes, it's, you know, it's very recent. | ||
| I should probably write that down. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bye. | |
| For all your black friends. | ||
| Yeah, for all my black friends. | ||
| That way they know because I have a whole bunch of them and they just don't know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I mean, that's proof that you're not a racist though, because you have a lot of black friends. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So, okay. | ||
| So you're waking up to all of this stuff. | ||
| Now you're discussing it and you're in the news. | ||
| And as I said before, you said to me, you're like, I don't like kind of being in the news. | ||
| That's like a weird position, but it's also, it seems to me that it really fits sort of you going independent right now because you're, Your life story and everything you just laid out here is exactly what people kind of want to hear right now. | ||
| Cause they see that the corporate control and versus independent, like it all kind of makes sense. | ||
| I guess that's my question. | ||
| Does it all make sense to you right now? | ||
| In a way? | ||
| It's starting to, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm really sad. | ||
| I'll say that. | ||
| I'm not gonna cry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm, I'm sad that it even has to be discussed. | |
| I'm sad that I'm at the point where I feel the need to share. | ||
| Not because woe is me. | ||
| Like, I'm fine. | ||
| Honestly, like, I'm learning so much. | ||
| But I, through the last three years, when I really was speaking up, kind of accidentally, I thought I was just being me, and then, oh, I can't say that? | ||
| And oh, this is what happens? | ||
| Oh, they can be them, but I can't be? | ||
| This wasn't intentional, none of it. | ||
| But what has happened has been It was beautifully painful, where the emails and DMs and people stopping me at airports. | ||
| I was at the Final Four in Phoenix recently. | ||
| Like, I couldn't walk 10 steps without someone else coming up to me. | ||
| And it got me so emotional. | ||
| And then to read things, because I thought, like, I felt so alone when I was standing up. | ||
| And when I decided to file a lawsuit against Disney, are you kidding me? | ||
| Again, the pleaser in me, never. | ||
| This is my dream job. | ||
| But, you know, you got to get to a really low point in order to consider that, especially because you talk about David versus Goliath. | ||
| Like, who am I? | ||
| Well, tell me about that, Dave, because I'm a believer that David can beat Goliath. | ||
| It's why I do what I do. | ||
| I believe that you can do that. | ||
| I think there's a reason that story is real. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| I just didn't think it would be me. | ||
| I just had Gina Carano on my show and she's in it, right? | ||
| She's in deep right now. | ||
| I look at what Megyn Kelly had to go through, you know? | ||
| And to be crushed and then to make a decision to try it on your own, right? | ||
| It's so scary. | ||
| And all I know is how to work for people and to kind of take orders. | ||
| And I was really good at that until I wasn't. | ||
| What has come is that I realized... That's interesting. | ||
| So you liked a lot of the corporate structure. | ||
| I love structure. | ||
| Because that's the military in me, and I can follow orders to the T. I can't always come up with the idea, but if you give it to me, I'll execute the hell out of it, and I'll be the best one, you know? | ||
| And the competitiveness in me comes through, but I'm just not good at, like, creating it. | ||
| And so I'm struggling now to create my own structure with how to get everything done in one day, where I didn't have a schedule where I had to be, you know, in my seat at this point, and, you know, mic on. | ||
| And when you're live, live at Noon Eastern, ready or not, Like, everything is structured to get there, right? | ||
| I always tell them, whatever's coming out of my mouth, it's like, half the time I'm not even exactly sure where it's gonna end, but we'll see what happens. | ||
| And it falls on me, and that's it. | ||
| talent where we get to the point where you're like, okay, I don't know exactly what I'm | ||
| going to say, but I trust myself enough that something smart will come out that won't, | ||
| you know, get me fired from, you know, um, well, the chances that I'm going to fire myself | ||
| are probably pretty slim. | ||
| I'm going back to the network time. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And that's the beauty of it right now. | ||
| But it is just so much bigger than us. | ||
| And so that's the cool part that I wanted. | ||
| That's what turned into the cool part for me that I realized that. | ||
| And I, and it was like a, there was my faith literally saved me along with my mom and dad | ||
| who. | ||
| Drove up, you know, COVID times when my dad has two kinds of cancer and she wasn't supposed to be around me. | ||
| Anyone, really. | ||
| And between my mom and dad and then my faith in God to say, you have to speak up. | ||
| And I did feel like all of a sudden I had this strength that I never knew I had. | ||
| Because what came with making that decision was devastating. | ||
| Wait, can you back up for one second just to tell people a little bit more about why you ultimately decided to sue ESPN? | ||
| I think most people probably know, but just fill in some blanks. | ||
| I went on a podcast on an off day and just spoke, was asked about why it was important for me to say I'm biracial versus just Black, where I've been told, well, you know, one drop rule. | ||
| And I'm like, wait, wait, wait. | ||
| White mom was there the day I was born, and I feel grateful for all of me, not just half of me, despite it might benefit me to say I'm black. | ||
| That's what Barack Obama did. | ||
| That's why I got in trouble. | ||
| Barbara Walters said that to me, and I'm like, wait, no. | ||
| So I didn't bring up Obama. | ||
| Barbara Walters did, God rest her soul. | ||
| But I was open about that, my choice of how I want to identify, which apparently is fine for some. | ||
| We have kids at my daughter's school. | ||
| A cat tomorrow if you want to. | ||
| So, like, that's okay. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The furries and the litter boxes in the hallways of high schools, that's fine, but I can't say what I really am. | ||
| And then also about the vaccine. | ||
| I had literally just come from getting my shot that day that I went on Jay Cutler's podcast. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Because I was forced to get it in order to keep my job at Disney. | ||
| Oh, I don't think I realized that. | ||
| Wow, so you were really, like, ready to roll that day. | ||
| Yeah, I didn't know that I was, but when I sat down, and it was in the warm weather, and I had a sleeveless shirt on with a band-aid, and I didn't even, I was rushing in, because I almost, in the parking lot at the grocery store, decided to not get the shot, and just say, screw it, I'm gonna take a chance, let them fire me, because I was so adamant about not being forced to do something to my body, unless, until we had more research on it. | ||
| Wait a minute, so you're saying you believe in my body, my choice? | ||
| We're going deep here, aren't we? | ||
| I was looking at the hypocrisy of that, right? | ||
| Like, wait, so for this shot that takes six to nine years on average for the FDA to approve a vaccine and all of a sudden you're shoved in. | ||
| And once it was, it became political, okay, it's evil if it's Trump, but if it's Biden, that's where you lost me. | ||
| And I started to do more homework and I'm like, I don't want to do this, but in order to keep that job, And in order to pay my bills, a job that I loved, I had to get the shot that day was the deadline. | ||
| So I came on then, doing the podcast, and when Jay asked me, you know, if he could ask me about it beforehand, I was like, sure, whatever. | ||
| But I didn't know what my response would be, and I had to, like, swallow. | ||
| I got choked up at that moment when he asked me because I was mad at myself. | ||
| I felt like I sold out by caving. | ||
| To do this shot. | ||
| I tell my kids, stand up for what you believe in. | ||
| What did I just do? | ||
| So I was mad at myself and emotional. | ||
| But hey, I complied. | ||
| I did it. | ||
| I just gave an opinion that I don't believe. | ||
| That I thought it was sick. | ||
| and scary for any company to dictate to someone what they should do to their body, and that would be Disney. | ||
| So those two things, how I choose to identify, and them saying that I told Obama how he should identify, which I did not, and saying that to force a vaccine is sick, that was really the downfall. | ||
| And from there, suspended, taken off the air, assignments taken away, and my thing was, fine, But if my colleagues are allowed to go on ESPN airwaves and talk about how devastated they were that Roe vs. Wade was overturned on a basketball show, or let's have a moment of silence for the Don't Say Gay in Florida during women's basketball coverage, I don't see how that relates, and that's very political, on our airwaves versus my own experience on someone else's podcast non-ESPN platform on an off day. | ||
| All I want is consistency. | ||
| And when they were allowed and encouraged to do it, but because I was coming from a different narrative and perspective than I was punished and publicly, you know, like, you have to apologize and make a statement and you're off the air. | ||
| And then they made a statement about me and it continued and continued and continued. | ||
| I think if the punishment hadn't continued, I would have been fine. | ||
| But when they chose to keep doing it and taking me off of things, but elevating the others, All I wanted is, and it was based on, like, freedom of speech, not constitutional, like, for our country government. | ||
| The state of Connecticut, there's, there's, it's part of an employment law in Connecticut where, you know, you can criticize your employer if you're complying with their rules. | ||
| And I had, and I had done that. | ||
| So diversity of thought is everything to me. | ||
| And you can't pick and choose who's allowed to speak based on your narrative. | ||
| You can, but now you're going to have people like me who are going to stand up if you do it. | ||
| So pardon me for not knowing the answer to this, but what's the status of that? | ||
| I settled in August. | ||
| You settled? | ||
| Oh, I mean, I wouldn't be speaking out. | ||
| Like, I filed the lawsuit when I, you know, I spent 16 months with an active lawsuit on the air. | ||
| So the last 16 months that I was at ESPN was an active lawsuit against Disney and ESPN. | ||
| So every day when I went in there, What's that like, personally, just to be able to wake up every morning going, I'm walking into the offices of the people I'm suing, they're pissed at me over a million of these things. | ||
| Probably you had a lot of people that secretly agreed with you, I would imagine, that wouldn't say it publicly, obviously. | ||
| Yeah, a lot of them reached out, and I had, you know, you have a quick commercial break, you run to the restroom, and I would see people, and they'd turn off your mic, and I'd see, I remember a young woman who worked on the floor crew was in the restroom at the same time, and she pulled me aside, and she had tears in her eyes. | ||
| Like, I get choked up thinking about it, and she's like, you're speaking for so many of us, thank you. | ||
| So, that's why I knew I had to continue, because it is. | ||
| Like, whenever I tell my story, I worry that people think, there she goes, bitchin' and moanin' again, and she's trying to, oh my god, no. | ||
| I just know that I felt so alone, so if I don't share it about, yes, the fear, but like, what comes with it when you realize you're helping others who also have been scared and need to keep a job, You know, that's what kept me going. | ||
| And so I'm proud of that, because every day I knew I was walking into kind of the lion's den, and then I'd compartmentalize and put that fear and that, you know, back here, and I have two hours of live TV to do, and I have highlights, and I have interviews, and I have to walk and talk on live TV and not follow my four-inch heels. | ||
| Like, I have stuff to focus on, but every day- Were you able to do that? | ||
| I think it was my best work. | ||
| Yeah, oh, that's interesting. | ||
| I don't know, like, something, I believe it was my best work, and every day I got a little bit stronger. | ||
| I think I realized the ability to compartmentalize, which can be unhealthy too, right? | ||
| Because then it's going to come up at some point. | ||
| But the first day I was allowed back at work after I got suspended, my mom and dad had come to help me, and my best friend and makeup artist Tiffany was there. | ||
| She had a lot of work to do those days. | ||
| A lot of concealer. | ||
| And my dad, the ex-college football player, I'm walking out the door, me and I was shaking. | ||
| I'd lost like 10 pounds. | ||
| And oh, by the way, while I was suspended, I got COVID really bad. | ||
| Weeks after being forced to take the shot that was supposed to prevent that, like, you can't even make it up, right? | ||
| My dad was like, huddle up. | ||
| So me and my girl Tiffany and my mom and my dad huddled up and we said, The Lord's Prayer, and then another prayer that, you know, at Catholic Church, it's St. | ||
| Michael the Archangel, and it's just about Protecting me from the wickedness and snares of the devil and just feeling protected from evil, from bad, from ugliness. | ||
| And that was the beginning of every single day when I drove into ESPN and pulled in the parking lot. | ||
| Before I walked in those doors, I called my mom and dad. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And we said this prayer on speakerphone, no matter if they were at the grocery store or at home or on vacation somewhere. | ||
| We said the prayer every day and I literally felt, this is where the faith comes in for me, I felt protected and I would envision like this bubble around me where I wouldn't let anything bad in and try to only give good out. | ||
| And that's what I had to visualize before I walked in every day. | ||
| So I think between the prayer and then the overall strength of every day when you do go in and you do a good job, built for 16 months. | ||
| And so when it all ended on August 14th of 2023, I was heartbroken still, even though I knew it was coming. | ||
| Like, when you see your company, they're not going to renew you at that point. | ||
| Well, how did you want it to end? | ||
| Because you, as you said, you got the dream gig that you always wanted. | ||
| Did you want, even through the lawsuit, did you want it to somehow work out and them to backtrack a little and be like, okay, she can just do her own thing and stay here? | ||
| Well, initially all we asked for was an apology. | ||
| For treating me differently than the others and using me as an example publicly with the statement, making me apologize, you know, using their words. | ||
| I got a little bit of say in it, but not much. | ||
| Like, for example, I couldn't say, I couldn't say the word Disney. | ||
| I was only allowed to say the company, the company. | ||
| And so I was like, when I, you know, my words about Disney, no, you have to say the company. | ||
| So stuff like that. | ||
| And then I didn't know that the next morning, when they were going to release my statement to everybody, that they were going to follow it up with one of their own, saying how, while we respect everyone's opinions and thoughts, but we're going to suspend you? | ||
| Like, you're kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth. | ||
| So from that perspective, we just wanted an apology, you know? | ||
| Own it. | ||
| And then I'll move on because I freaking love this job. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's my life. | ||
| I started ESPN when my kids were 11 months old, 2 and 4. | ||
| They're now 18, 20, and 22. | ||
| Their whole lives have been mom and ESPN. | ||
| And I gained a ton. | ||
| It was a two-way street for a very long time, until it wasn't. | ||
| And so I knew once I made the decision That's it. | ||
| My contract still wouldn't be up until the end of June of this year, so I had a lot of time left, a big contract left, and I knew that I wouldn't have a job after that. | ||
| Some people say, oh, well, it's easy for you. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| I don't have that kind of money, you know what I mean? | ||
| But it wasn't about that. | ||
| Like, if you wait for the right time, when you have enough money, okay, your kids are out of college, and then you're— It's too late. | ||
| It's too late. | ||
| And I felt like a hypocrite. | ||
| If I'm telling my kids to live a certain way, and trying to uplift other young women who have reached out to me through the years, like, how do I get there? | ||
| Then I'm going to go silent? | ||
| at such a crucial time in our country. | ||
| So I blame my parents for that, for that strength and toughness and the principle. | ||
| I'm like, damn you, dad. | ||
| That's probably a blame they're willing to take. | ||
| Can I give you a great Jordan Peterson line on what you just said? | ||
| When I was on tour with Jordan, one of the questions that would come up all the time would be from college kids who would be like, oh, I want to get the grade in my class, but I know if I tell the truth that my teacher won't give me the grade, but I want to be able to get into grad school and get the job, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And Jordan's line on this always was the same thing. | ||
| And I think it's basically what you just illustrated there. | ||
| It's that when you do that once as a freshman, don't say the truth and you write that paper, that will be the hardest time it ever is for you. | ||
| And then each time after it will be easier and easier and easier and easier. | ||
| And then he goes, when you graduate four years later, you will not remember the person that you were. | ||
| And I think that that's probably, or I guess this is the question then, is that probably what a lot of the corporate controlled News anchors and sports anchors are doing right now, because I'm always trying to figure out, like, did these MSNBC people believe this nonsense? | ||
| When I, the few times I turn on ESPN or get clips, I'm like, did they actually, or is it just they're so down the road? | ||
| They're not going to do what you did. | ||
| They're not going to find that strength. | ||
| Probably a combination. | ||
| And I really try to respect that fear because it is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's legitimate. | ||
| Not only did I feel it and live it, I heard that from so many people. | ||
| Grown ass men, like, because I'm like, OK, all you tough guys and all you athletes and the guys that I worked with. | ||
| Like the transgender sports issue. | ||
| These are men, like former NFL players, who I work with, who are the biggest, strongest, toughest, richest. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like they have that kind of money. | ||
| And they have daughters playing sports and playing volleyball in high school and college at high levels. | ||
| And I know damn well there's no way that they would be okay if it happened on their daughter's team or in her league or conference. | ||
| There's no way. | ||
| But they're staying silent. | ||
| And that is where I'm like, and these are people of color. | ||
| It isn't even, oh, white guy. | ||
| No. | ||
| So like, that's the part where I'm like, what? | ||
| And that's where, like, again, I understand the fear, but I guess it's a personal decision. | ||
| And for me, I could not live with that hypocrisy. | ||
| I had already been hypocritical with the Biden interview and with other things, but there is a real, you know, the logistics and the reality for people to pay those bills is real. | ||
| So I try to have grace with that for others and myself to forgive myself for taking too long, whatever that means. | ||
| It's part of your origin story now. | ||
| So it just is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I can't imagine still being quiet right now. | ||
| Which is only happening because you have to be okay being hated. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you have to be okay being canceled. | ||
| You have to be okay being judged on a headline, a clip, you know, an 18-second soundbite. | ||
| How much have you shifted on that? | ||
| Because I've had a million people in here that have been through some version of what you're talking about. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I've been through some version of it, but like, at first it's really scary, but you seem pretty damn well-adjusted and happy. | ||
| I'm good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm at peace with it. | ||
| I'm saddened. | ||
| Like, I use that word twice now, right? | ||
| It's never what I would have ever dreamt of, you know? | ||
| And anyway, because I also didn't want to upset people, and I had great relationships there with some of the executives, and like, I could have called, texted the president of the network forever. | ||
| I mean, I had done that for years. | ||
| I hate losing relationships, friendships, but it's also proof that it wasn't really a friendship. | ||
| Especially people that, you know, my peers there who I was, that was probably the toughest because people that I had allowed into my home around my children, really personal, shared things with, they had shared things with me. | ||
| I went to battle for them because I had the seniority and kind of the, I could have seated that table and be like, Do you see what this young woman's doing? | ||
| She's awesome and she treats people great. | ||
| Elevate her. | ||
| Give her a shot. | ||
| I took pride in finally having that voice and being able to help other young women and men. | ||
| And then it was like, I haven't heard from I stopped hearing from them a while ago. | ||
| So I had to let that, literally, like my friends, I sound like a child. | ||
| That's the part that probably hurt the most, more so than the hate online from the wokesters | ||
| who I used to work with, many of whom, and you know what, go for it. | ||
| I don't respond, the only person I respond to every once, twice a year is Olbermann | ||
| because he's a jackass and he needs it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Otherwise, like, well he needs help, like we need to pray for him. | |
| Even though he probably wouldn't, like that's another level. | ||
| But in general, I also think age, I'm 51. | ||
| Like, whatever. | ||
| Come. | ||
| Because you've already tried to break me in every single way. | ||
| And I'm somehow... I'm still standing. | ||
| So, go for it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, it's funny. | |
| You know, the Olbermann thing is very funny to me, because I told you, I was watching him and Dan Patrick, and I was like, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. | ||
| And they're talking about basketball and all the sports, but I love basketball the most. | ||
| I was like, this is so obviously what I want to do. | ||
| And now it's 25 years later or whatever. | ||
| And I'm like, this man is completely insane. | ||
| Like, we don't have to make it about him, but just like that weird thing that happens to, I guess, a lot of people, say, in this space that we're in. | ||
| He was so talented. | ||
| How many times has that dude been fired? | ||
| A lot. | ||
| From basically every network. | ||
| I think three times from ESPN. | ||
| Like, he kept coming back, and I said to the guy that kept bringing him back, I was like, what are you doing? | ||
| Like, it's just such a slap in the face to the people who are sane here, and there's not many, but like, why? | ||
| Why give that guy a chance? | ||
| Because if nothing else, Like, he's not a good teammate. | ||
| Leads with such hatred, such vitriol. | ||
| Is that what we want? | ||
| And I don't know if they're trying to balance things. | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| At the end of the day, I laugh at Keith Olbermann. | ||
| And not in a mean way, but just because if you don't, it can get to you. | ||
| Especially because he's saying lies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know. | |
| He called me racist a couple of times. | ||
| By the third time, I was like, okay, now this is just funny. | ||
| I think he's got a big following on Twitter, I think just because people like to see how insane is he. | ||
| That's why, you know what I mean? | ||
| But like when you're relegated to the balcony of your amazing penthouse overlooking Central Park, and I do think there's like 86 dogs in there with him. | ||
| Because that's the reason why he can never come to Bristol. | ||
| We always had to go to him if he was filling in on my own show. | ||
| Because of the dogs? | ||
| Because he didn't want to leave the dogs overnight. | ||
| Literally. | ||
| And I was like, okay, I like dogs, fine. | ||
| I'll get a nice dinner in the city. | ||
| I live in the middle of nowhere. | ||
| I'll gladly come down. | ||
| But that was the reason why. | ||
| And I don't even like to rip on him because it's sad. | ||
| Like, what has happened to someone who's so talented, so smart? | ||
| Like, he really is. | ||
| So for me to have hosted with him three or four times, it was an honor. | ||
| And I still look at it because I'm going to try to choose to remember him as if he's dead. | ||
| He's still here, I'm pretty sure. | ||
| I mean, for the moment. | ||
| I'm trying to remember him as that Keith Olbermann from, you know, one of the all-time greats on SportsCenter with Dan Patrick, because that's where he was special and very unique talent. | ||
| I'm trying to focus on that one because this version is really pathetic. | ||
| No, I hear you. | ||
| How much of all of this has sort of crystallized your view about what Corporate stuff is, as it relates to now, everything. | ||
| Like, are you, like, red-pilled across the board now in terms of, like, just everything that they've lied about? | ||
| COVID, Russia collusion, all of it. | ||
| Jussie Smollett was, like, all of the lunacy. | ||
| Now, having walked from the corporate side of it, where you see how the control is, like, Is it just like you just see it now? | ||
| Like it's like see it through the matrix basically? | ||
| Everywhere. | ||
| Blown away. | ||
| And that's why I'm like I'm so number one passionate about Speaking out just from my little experience, because I think it is representative of what so many have been through where you have to, you know, it's like the firm, you know, where this is what's happening, and if not, like, look, I mean, I'm kind of a poster child for what happens when you kind of speak up, and it's like the golden handcuffs, and that's why I think, well, I mean, I was the highest paid woman there, you know, for the last several years at the network, and like, this is coming from an Army kid, where when I hit six figures years ago, I was like, | ||
| This is it, you know? | ||
| It was actually six figures combined with my, you know, now ex-husband. | ||
| Like, we've made it! | ||
| We can pay our water bill on time. | ||
| This is it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So to get to that level was... You get IDs. | |
| Yes. | ||
| I had a fake ID in college. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So black people get fake IDs, too? | ||
| I'm a felon. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| Well, that was back, you know, in the olden days. | ||
| Where was I? | ||
| See what you did? | ||
| Well, just seeing the corporate structure and everything. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I... | ||
| People have to speak up more about it, and especially, like I said, going into an election season where, like, you've got to know what you're watching on TV and what these networks are spewing. | ||
| And if you haven't figured it out by now, then I'm concerned about you, right? | ||
| But that's why we love the independent people like you who are giving the truth based on facts. | ||
| And then you give your opinion based on those facts, right? | ||
| That's the key. | ||
| You don't have to agree—people don't have to agree with your opinion on it. | ||
| But these are the facts, and then go from there. | ||
| It's everywhere. | ||
| Listen, that's why I'm so scared about this election, too, because, I mean, what happened in 2020, that was not clean. | ||
| A clean election, in my opinion, and I think there's enough facts out there, but it isn't talked about by the mainstream media, and that's just swept under the rug. | ||
| All the videos that we saw, those crazy ominous videos and ballot stuffing, and we're just going to ignore it, ignore what happened in Arizona. | ||
| If you choose to ignore it, fine. | ||
| But, like, get what's coming to you then. | ||
| And I'm just not ready. | ||
| Like, I still think there's so much greatness with this country. | ||
| And maybe that's the military kidding me. | ||
| But, you know, again, being at the Final Four the other day, it was so awesome to see 80,000 people, whatever the number was, packed in there to watch a college basketball game. | ||
| And to see every person, by the way, stand. | ||
| Everybody that I saw was taking hats off, you know? | ||
| And this is the Men's Final Four. | ||
| There were some different things going on at the Women's Final Four there, right? | ||
| Come on, ladies! | ||
| Goodness gracious! | ||
| But there's so much good, and I think the vast majority of Americans are like us. | ||
| Or even if you don't agree, it's fine. | ||
| And lead with kindness, and accept others, and race, and gender, and sexuality, and your socioeconomic status. | ||
| Doesn't matter. | ||
| Like, that's the beauty of sports, by the way, right? | ||
| Because for three hours on a football Sunday, everybody's on the same team and you're high-fiving the Jewish guy next to you, the gay woman over here. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| Can you play? | ||
| Can you play? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I love, that's why I love sports. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Me too. | ||
| And that's why I basically cannot watch professional sports anymore, which is, that's, that's the irony. | ||
| Wait, so let's talk about the NCAA situation for a second because Dawn Staley, who was a great WNBA player, we checked the stats, she averaged 16 points a game for eight seasons. | ||
| Those are pretty solid numbers. | ||
| She came out this week. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hall of Famer. | |
| Oh, she's a Hall of Famer too. | ||
| So Hall of Famer. | ||
| Female basketball player, born a female, played as a female, now a female basketball coach. | ||
| She basically said that she'd be okay with men playing in women's leagues, which ultimately, obviously, is going to push a lot of women out. | ||
| Do you think that most of these people taking that position believe? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no, no, no. | |
| But it's proof that there is fear. | ||
| Fear is what is driving this country right now. | ||
| And even in sports for something that like, it's one thing to have a different opinion about a vaccine. | ||
| Another thing with this, there have never been questions about the differences between men and women. | ||
| And by the way, beautiful differences. | ||
| Yeah, it's okay. | ||
| What's so funny is Dawn Staley, like many coaches, has men that her women practice against. | ||
| Oh, that's interesting. | ||
| Yeah, most of them do. | ||
| Because why? | ||
| The men are bigger, stronger, faster, can jump higher. | ||
| So if that's what you're practicing against, what happens come game time? | ||
| You're better. | ||
| So why are they there? | ||
| What, are you just trying to, like, diversify? | ||
| Like, practice? | ||
| No. | ||
| And I'm gonna say, I said it on Twitter, I'll say it forever, like, I love her. | ||
| She's incredible. | ||
| Like, what she did, the way she coaches, like, I'm afraid of her. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| In a great way. | ||
| I respect her so much and her game. | ||
| I've talked to her a few times. | ||
| I really like her as a person. | ||
| I think she blew it with that, and I don't think she believes it. | ||
| She hasn't told me that, I haven't talked to her, but she hasn't blocked me yet. | ||
| I hope she hasn't, because at the end of the day it's true, you can really love and respect someone and vehemently disagree with them. | ||
| But I don't believe she, and it's fascinating though. | ||
| Why aren't more coaches being asked about that? | ||
| Who had to ask that question? | ||
| An outkick reporter, a conservative reporter, because the mainstream media will not ask those questions because they don't want to put the coach in a tough position and they don't probably want to know the truth either. | ||
| It's not asked. | ||
| Are the players, are those WNBA players asked? | ||
| Don't you find it so weird that for female basketball players particularly, like they had to fight for so long to get a league in and of itself. | ||
| I remember when the WNBA came out. | ||
| You remember Cynthia Cooper? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| She was awesome. | ||
| She was awesome. | ||
| I watched because of her. | ||
| I was like, this girl, yes, she obviously couldn't have played in the NBA, but she was like a truly special player. | ||
| I loved watching her. | ||
| But they had to fight so hard to get that. | ||
| That then to do this thing where I've always said, for 10 years, I've been saying the same thing, like, this all ends when some 38-year-old washed up, 6'8", 250, power forward, is like, all right, I'm a woman now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Call me Jana. | ||
| Here we go. | ||
| And dunking on them. | ||
| And they're going to be like, okay. | ||
| It's the Chappelle joke. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| The Chappelle with LeBron James. | ||
| And that's what he does. | ||
| And I was like, okay, so LeBron James says I'm a woman, which means he has to play in the WNBA, | ||
| where he'll proceed to score 856 points. | ||
| Nice, congratulations. | ||
| Right, but you don't even need LeBron. | ||
| I'm talking a guy averaging one point in the NBA. | ||
| You're so right. | ||
| And we've worked so hard. | ||
| ESPN did an incredible job through the years with ESPNW, and I was part of that | ||
| from day one until I wasn't, you know? | ||
| And like, pushing and pushing, and those of us women pushing producers, | ||
| Like, let's bump this up from the C block. | ||
| Can we get it in the B block? | ||
| You know, we need to lead with it today. | ||
| You're okay. | ||
| Like there's constant conversations and battles and millions of dollars spent in particular by ESPN to uplift and get the game to where it is. | ||
| And look, Like record rating for this women's NCAA tournament in 2024. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| And the game is awesome. | ||
| Guys will tell you and coaches will tell you that the women's skill set actually is better than the men. | ||
| It has to be technically better because you can't do some of the other things that the men can do. | ||
| We don't have to compare. | ||
| We don't, you know? | ||
| What we're choosing to do is to minimize women and take away all that work. | ||
| 1972, it's the year I was born. | ||
| Title IX, right? | ||
| And all those years and I look back at some of these trailblazers, you know, and why are so many of them quiet? | ||
| I love that it takes, you know, Megan Rapinoe and some of these people who wait till they retire and then all of a sudden it's like, oh sure, you know? | ||
| And I think, I don't remember if Sue Bird said something recently too about, yes, trans No, she didn't. | ||
| Girl, you're out! | ||
| I went to the same high school with her. | ||
| I'm older than her, but I played with her a couple times on, like, you know, the record. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You did. | |
| And she was good, but she didn't blow away the dudes. | ||
| That's the point. | ||
| That's the point. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| But everyone knew she was awesome. | ||
| She's awesome! | ||
| Like, she's one of the goods. | ||
| I love her. | ||
| She probably hates me. | ||
| It's fine. | ||
| I love her and I love her game. | ||
| Her mom was my high school nurse. | ||
| You're kidding! | ||
| There you go. | ||
| I mean, she's incredible. | ||
| All we have to do is look at the fact that this is only going one direction. | ||
| It's only... Right. | ||
| You know, men trying to come into the women's work. | ||
| Not the other way, because it won't work in any sport. | ||
| So I don't know what the end of this is going to be. | ||
| In my opinion, I've talked to my WNBA friends and some coaches, and everyone knows that this is BS. | ||
| But gosh, I always just say, and even for the female sports anchors throughout my industry, we could crush this. | ||
| If only we'd come together and do it. | ||
| Again, it goes back to fear. | ||
| It just blows my mind, though, because this is something that if you stand up, no one's really going to argue with you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's such an easy win, that's the thing. | ||
| So easy. | ||
| Well, that's why when I was watching Dawn Staley say it, I was like, I can't quite tell if she believes this or not. | ||
| And the way she said, well, I'll get in trouble because of this, but I don't care. | ||
| And it was like, well, now I kind of think you want the trouble. | ||
| Like, it was just... | ||
| I'm surprised she wasn't more prepared for the question. | ||
| I guess people thought that because it hadn't happened yet and it should have happened all season long, probably, and last season, that they're like, okay, fine, you know, maybe not preparing for it. | ||
| But that's, that's, I'll tell you this, I'm pretty sure that every single, you know, WNBA team, which camp's about to begin, that's a summer league, they're all having conversations about it. | ||
| And how are we going to handle it when the outkick now comes to us? | ||
| Better not just be outkick. | ||
| How about if you really, really believe in the power of women's sports and continuing to elevate women, not minimize? | ||
| How about you ask the question? | ||
| How about you do your job as a journalist? | ||
| Instead, this goes back to the whole corporate media thing, whether it's sports or news, they are deliberately making these decisions and it's up to people like us To talk about it. | ||
| And again, I love Don Salek. | ||
| So you must be relishing that now, because now you're on the other side. | ||
| All of this origin story leads you to the other side, where you're independent, you're free, you're now begrudgingly making the news as you talk about some of this stuff. | ||
| But that's a cardinal sin. | ||
| We're not supposed to, right? | ||
| As journalists, we're not supposed to make the news or be in the headlines. | ||
| Maybe it's because of 16 and a half years on the national level where you just | ||
| do exactly what you're told. | ||
| And you just talk about one thing, which that was deliberate, by the way. | ||
| It wasn't just an order. | ||
| It was, I'm a sportscaster. | ||
| My opinions on this other stuff don't matter. | ||
| Now, when it comes to the sports topics with transgender, that's fuzzy, gray area. | ||
| But it wasn't really discussed on our airwaves, probably, on purpose. | ||
| But I guess when you're at that level for so many years, and then all of a sudden, I'm talking about other things. | ||
| It's like, what? | ||
| Did that take a little while? | ||
| I'm still uncomfortable. | ||
| Can you tell? | ||
| No, I actually can't tell. | ||
| No, you're like crazy comfortable, which also is... Too comfortable. | ||
| Well, I don't think too comfortable, but you're obviously crazy comfortable for someone that had to... Yeah. | ||
| have the prompters and all that stuff. | ||
| I know you were doing your own thing for those two hours, but it's not the easiest thing I know for a lot of people | ||
| to walk out of that on the other side. | ||
| Yeah, no, you're right. | ||
| I mean, I've always, my producers used to hate it because I've always been super conversational | ||
| and will, you know, wing it on a lot of things. | ||
| Oh my God, wrap, stop, stop. | ||
| Like I know, but if you're listening to the interview, and as the journalist asking the questions, | ||
| well then you're not just, you better not just go by your script. | ||
| Like you listen and then you follow up. | ||
| What a concept. | ||
| And that's how I've always been. | ||
| I never liked watching any kind of TV where it was question, answer, question, answer. | ||
| So I've tried to do it in the same way. | ||
| It is weird being on the receiving end of the questions. | ||
| A little bit scary, but I also know that like if I'm being honest, | ||
| And if I'm being really true to myself, that's all that really matters. | ||
| And if what comes with that is hatred and negativity, I'm now willing to accept that. | ||
| And it's okay. | ||
| I did notice for years, probably starting in like 2017, when I spoke out about something and got really canceled the first time, I remember walking through an airport. | ||
| And keeping my eyes on the ground. | ||
| And I was afraid to make eye contact with anyone. | ||
| And I hated that feeling. | ||
| And so slowly but surely through the years, I'm okay making eye contact again. | ||
| Sounds so simple, but I just would look away in fear that they would actually say the words that I saw people saying on social media. | ||
| And the threats and the sellout part from some of the black community, and I was so scared. | ||
| I just, I didn't realize how much it affected me until recently. | ||
| And now I'm like, hi, eye contact. | ||
| I love you for your beliefs, even if I disagree, and can you love me? | ||
| And if you can't, that's fine, but like, I actually know that that's wrong, and that's where your hypocrisy comes in, so. | ||
| I'm like, go for it. | ||
| There's some peace in being okay being disliked. | ||
| And I also know that the majority of people actually aren't that way. | ||
| The majority of people are kind and welcoming and are actually grateful for those of us who are taking a risk by standing up for, started with myself because I was being hurt, right? | ||
| And I was being treated wrong. | ||
| But I'm nothing in this now. | ||
| I mean it. | ||
| This is about so many other people. | ||
| And I gotta tell you, my kids have struggled a lot with that. | ||
| That actually was my next question. | ||
| Has this changed your feelings? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's hard. | |
| Not feelings on motherhood, but has it changed your approach maybe? | ||
| Or how have your kids dealt with some of this stuff? | ||
| They've asked me at times to stop. | ||
| Um, one in particular, the youngest who, you know, it's hardest on the youngest and they're in high school and then we live in a small town and then their mom makes news and coaches and teachers and parents will say something to them. | ||
| And I recently had to call a teacher out. | ||
| I'm like, if you have a question about me, call me, email me. | ||
| Why are you asking my 17 year old daughter? | ||
| No. | ||
| Was she displaying? | ||
| Did she not look well in class? | ||
| Was she looking down? | ||
| What prompted this? | ||
| Well, no, she's great! | ||
| I'm like, well, then why are you asking her about her mother? | ||
| Stop. | ||
| So the mama bear has definitely had to come out a couple times, and especially during COVID and when I would not let them get vaccinated. | ||
| And then there's parents who were like, well, then she can't come over. | ||
| And that was hard because I felt like my decisions as a parent, which is what we have to do, right, were certainly affecting them in ways I didn't want. | ||
| But if I'm telling them to be strong and to stand up, just one of my other children went to an all-girls private school in Connecticut, so you can kind of guess how, you know, the political views were there, and on her own, She was very pro-life on her own, did her research, and having a conversation that was her presentation topic in class, and the vitriol, the hatred that came back from her classmates, like they stood up in the classroom and the teacher allowed it. | ||
| So if I'm encouraging her to not back down from her stance in a kind way, handle that with kindness, then what am I doing, right? | ||
| I'll say this, at the end, the night before the lawsuit dropped, I went to each kid. | ||
| The oldest was in college, and my middle, my son was a senior in high school, and the other one was a sophomore. | ||
| And I was like, I just want you guys to know, this is happening tomorrow. | ||
| And I was emotional, because I was apologizing ahead of time. | ||
| Because I knew it was going to make headlines. | ||
| Who sues Disney? | ||
| Nobody. | ||
| Well, there's one other guy in Florida, and he won, too. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| That other guy. | ||
| I was first. | ||
| And now you kind of live here, so that's all good. | ||
| Listen, I would love to meet him someday. | ||
| High five! | ||
| I think we can make that happen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, thanks. | |
| I would be nervous. | ||
| But like, just such respect for his courage through all these years, the way he handled the pandemic. | ||
| It's one of the reasons why I'm going to be a full-time resident here very soon. | ||
| But when I went to them and was like, don't ever feel like you have to defend me to my kids. | ||
| Like, you don't have to defend me. | ||
| If someone says something to you, just remind people that everybody has a right to their own opinion. | ||
| Freedom of speech, you know, the mercy of thought. | ||
| Even my mom, even if I disagree. | ||
| So don't defend me, but just remind people of the why behind it. | ||
| People can't argue with that. | ||
| And they're like, okay, my son, who's kind of the quieter between the two like crazy daughters I have, because girls are nuts, we're all nuts. | ||
| I told him what was happening and I was like, I just need you to know, but don't defend me and I love you and I'm sorry ahead of time. | ||
| And I was all choked up and he looked at me. | ||
| And he goes, Mom, it's about time you stood up for yourself. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Lost it. | ||
| I mean, he's 17 at the time, 18, eight to turn 18. | ||
| And I thought, I didn't know he'd been watching this whole time. | ||
| Your kids watch everything you do, good and bad. | ||
| And I thought I was protecting them by going quiet time and time. | ||
| I'd make a comment, get in trouble, okay, nevermind, go back in my hole because it was easier and safer. | ||
| That's the word, like safer. | ||
| And it protected them, too. | ||
| And he noticed that it wasn't being true to me. | ||
| For him to say that, like, Dave, I knew at that moment that no matter what happened with my lawsuit, if I got crushed, and the chances are pretty high, if nothing else, because they were going to bleed me dry. | ||
| It's me versus Disney. | ||
| I knew I was going to win in a more important way in the eyes of my kiddos who saw me making some really tough Wow. | ||
| I sort of think that's where we should end, but I feel like we just kind of got to the beginning, too. | ||
| What do you think? | ||
| Wow, I sort of think that's where we should end, but I feel like we just kind of got to | ||
| the beginning. | ||
| I think I need a therapist. | ||
| Do you have tequila? | ||
| We don't have a therapist for me. | ||
| No, that's my thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So it's bigger than me, when it's bigger than me and bigger than us. | |
| Our kids are watching us, and if we're going to get better, then we have to have courage and speak up even when it's scary. | ||
| We've been silent for too long and accepted it, and no more. | ||
| I worry, I know that my kids just want, sometimes they just want to go to dinner and not have somebody come up to me, but I'm like, that's an honor. | ||
| No matter, I've always been that way. | ||
| That's an honor. | ||
| And so, especially when for years I felt like I was the only one, and I was the only one speaking up at least where I worked, but I've had tens of thousands from across the world. | ||
| People have never heard of me because they have a life. | ||
| But like when Disney's name got brought up with all my stuff. | ||
| For people to thank me? | ||
| I'm like, this is this nerdy, shy kid, which is what I was. | ||
| Still nerdy, not shy. | ||
| This police officer was afraid to upset anyone who somehow found Some strength and a backbone, you know? | ||
| So I feel like God put me here to speak up. | ||
| And I'm emotional for that reason, because I can't believe that it's me, and I'm grateful. | ||
| Like, why not? | ||
| You know? | ||
| Others will not wait as long as I did, including first and foremost my kids. | ||
| They don't wait until they're in their late 40s, 50 to be like, no, that's not okay. | ||
| And here's why. | ||
| So this is all worth it. | ||
| So the tears are not like, oh, woe is me. | ||
| The tears are like, what an honor to be able to have the strength to have a voice now to help others not feel cornered. | ||
| And what an unbelievable story to get the thing you always wanted, to leave that thing, and now it's like you have every freaking opportunity in the world now. | ||
| For all the right reasons. | ||
| It's overwhelming. | ||
| It's a lot. | ||
| It's a lot. | ||
| But I'm just day-to-day. | ||
| Like, you know, as an athlete, you're doubtful, probable, day-to-day, questionable, like all the things with as far as your injury report. | ||
| Been irreparably injured. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Permanently at this stage, permanently disabled. | ||
| I'm just, I can't believe it's Happening. | ||
| But I'm just open for whatever tomorrow brings. | ||
| Like, I don't have any guarantees and I'm so grateful of all people. | ||
| Did I think I'd ever be thanking Bill Maher? | ||
| So your podcast is part of Bill's random network? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes! | |
| Are you kidding me? | ||
| We could not be more opposite in every possible way. | ||
| Like, I haven't talked about my faith during this. | ||
| He thinks God is a sham and I'm an idiot, right? | ||
| And he thinks marriage is a waste and kids are annoying and I'm, well, I'm not married now. | ||
| Someday, hopefully, to be married again and my kids are my life. | ||
| They're my why, right? | ||
| But he believes in the ability to have conversations and diversity of thought, and that's a beautiful thing. | ||
| So, like, if that can happen, I think we all have hope. | ||
| But, you know, for years they were all like, oh, you're going to go to Fox News. | ||
| I'm like, no desire. | ||
| Because I don't care where you go. | ||
| network is going to have major restrictions and, you know, all the dirt that goes on on those, you know, in those C-suites, and I don't want any part of that. | ||
| I've never, I don't know how to work for myself, I'm learning, so if you can give me any advice, but I know that I'll never again do that, because then you're right back where you started, where there's control. | ||
| And it's about now, telling the truth. | ||
| And hopefully it helps people. | ||
| And I just, now I'm just having conversations on my show. | ||
| And it isn't about, like, if it's an athlete, I don't care about your stats. | ||
| I don't care about, you know, your resume as some of the Hollywood people I've interviewed so far. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| What I care about is, like, here. | ||
| Like, what's your why? | ||
| Because my resume doesn't matter. | ||
| It's my why that I think, I hope. | ||
| can resonate and just let people relax. | ||
| Sounds cheesy, right? | ||
| I should have been a 60s child. | ||
| Just love and beauty. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But it's true. | |
| It's actually not that hard. | ||
| Look, I didn't let the tears out. | ||
| I didn't do it. | ||
| No, but I got one. | ||
| I'm trying to fight it. | ||
| It's here. | ||
| I don't know if you can quite see it. | ||
| If you do it, I'll do it. | ||
| That's rare. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| We're shutting this thing down. | ||
| You want to shoot some hoops? | ||
| I am a terrible shot. | ||
| All right, that means we're going- That means, yeah, so he can win, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Thank you so much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| If you're looking for more uncensored opinions from today's thought leaders, check out our media playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist, all right over here. |
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