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Jan. 5, 2024 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
42:50
Coleman Hughes Silences CNN Host by Calling BS on Blaming Racism
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andy ngo
15:01
c
colin wright
08:00
d
dave rubin
13:35
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abby phillip
00:34
c
coleman hughes
00:55
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karine jean-pierre
00:14
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
(upbeat music)
All right, we are live on the interwebs.
dave rubin
I'm Dave Rubin, this is The Rubin Report.
It is time for a Friday roundtable extravaganza, and joining me today is a New York Times bestselling author and legendary, that's right, I'm coining him, a legendary journalist, who I don't have to put air quotes around, Andy Ngo.
And also joining me for the first time is an evolutionary biologist, a fellow at the Manhattan Institute, and the founding editor of Reality's Last Stand, Colin Wright.
Andy, Colin, welcome to The Rubin Report.
colin wright
Thanks, Dave.
andy ngo
Thank you.
dave rubin
I am glad to have you guys, and I thought I would start with something, although we're going to discuss the woke week that was.
I'm going to start with something that kind of put you on the map, Colin.
I've known you for years, and I didn't even realize until five minutes before the show that you've actually never been on the show before, which is very bizarre to me, so I owe you one.
I'll try to make it up to you.
But I wanna throw up this meme that you had created a couple of years ago
that's gonna look very familiar to people.
We've shown it on this show a couple of times and what you created this,
what around what year was that?
Do you remember?
colin wright
I think I created it in 2021.
dave rubin
2021, okay.
So now what you're seeing there, and the reason that this meme went viral is because Elon Musk reposted it, and this was before he bought Twitter, but sort of as he was waking up politically and seeing what was going on in terms of free speech and everything else.
He posted this about two years ago, and it went viral.
It was your meme.
And as people can see up top, in 2008, you said the little character that's me in the middle there is kind of center-left.
Then four years later, 2012, you can see the left, the fellow liberal, has gone way, way left.
And you are now a little bit closer to the center.
And then in 2021, now nine years later, you can see me, the me character, is now kind of on the right.
The left has gone woke progressive, calling everybody a bigot.
And the conservative is basically like, LOL, see, I was kind of right.
about a lot of this stuff.
I think that was the most time anyone has ever spent explaining a meme in the history of the world.
But Colin, can you talk a little bit about your personal political journey?
Because it does very much mirror mine.
It mirrors Elon's.
I can't speak for Andy, but I think it mirrors his to a degree in a certain way.
None of us are sort of people that you would traditionally think would be more on the conservative side of things, yet here we are.
colin wright
Yeah, I mean, it was partly inspired by, I think, a video you did, uh, you know, years ago called, you know, I didn't leave the left, the left left me, if that's right.
Um, and so I was, that was something I felt very deeply given certain topics like free speech and, uh, women's rights and, uh, you know, judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.
And all these themes have just been like, Completely abandoned by the liberal left as I knew it at the time.
And so I wanted, I just felt this sort of like this ground shift where like I had basically maintained my own views, my values.
And then the ground shifted underneath me, where those values used to be reflected, in my opinion, on the center left best.
And now I see them more reflected probably on the center-right.
So now I'm, you know, considered to have been radicalized by right-wing fundamentalists, even though in reality I've just basically stayed in the same place and everyone else has gone on the crazy identitarian train, the bullet train to the left.
So that's sort of, you know, you were definitely a help sort of giving me this vision of the left leaving me And I was thankfully able to put it into a meme form that seemed to resonate with a lot of people, so it's been a lot of fun.
dave rubin
Yeah, I mean, that's the beauty of memes.
They can get the ideas out there to spread in a way that talking about it sometimes doesn't quite do.
Andy, do you find some common cause in that?
Because it's kind of funny.
I actually, we're friends outside of this show, and you've been on my show a million times, and I've read your books and all that stuff.
I actually don't know all of your political beliefs, but I know every time they write about you, the mainstream media, they either call you a right-wing conservative or alt-right or, you know, one of these crazy things which, The way I know you as a human has very little to do with what I can sense your political beliefs are.
andy ngo
Thank you, Dave, for providing a little bit of that personal insight into your interactions with me.
I'm based in the UK now, but I'm from Portland, Oregon.
That's where I did most of my reporting.
That's how most people have heard of me.
And now that I've spent some time away from America and can look into U.S.
political culture while not physically being there, I think a lot of the ridiculousness and contradictions are made much more apparent.
And in one particular area is how radicalized the left, the liberal mainstream left is in the US.
It's actually quite different in Europe.
Yes, in UK and Europe, they have the woke and the far left here as well.
But They really do exist on the fringes and are often mocked by the center-left and center-right.
I think in the US, perhaps Americans don't realize because we've become really so used to it, is how radical the mainstream left is.
If you look at, for example, I'm just reading some older writings from Ibram X. Kendi when he was known under a different name.
And some of his older writings were just these racist greeds against white people, referencing their DNA and their genetics.
And this person is one, unfortunately, many, many upheld by the mainstream liberal elite left as a figure we should take inspiration from and look up to.
and view as a moral guidance, and also as an intellectual.
So, when we have these discussions about how politics have shifted so radically,
let's say in the last just decade in the US, I look at it with actually a lot of despair.
dave rubin
Well, let's get to the hope part, because people know I like to do a little hope on this show.
And that's actually why I wanted to have you both on this week, because there were a couple wins
against this woke craziness this week.
The big win was that Claudine Gay is now the former president of Harvard.
She has resigned from her post at Harvard after the anti-Semitism and plagiarism Scandal, we've got some info here from Greg Price, who's another journalist.
I don't have to put air quotes around.
Breaking, here is Claudine Gay's resignation letter to the Harvard community.
She writes, it has been distressing to have doubt cast on my commitments to confronting hate and to upholding scholarly rigor to bedrock values that are fundamental to who I am and frightening to be subjected to personal attacks and threats fueled by racial animus.
Interestingly, Colin, I referenced you earlier this week on the show because you had a prediction about how she would behave once she would resign, and you absolutely nailed it.
So here's Colin Wright a couple days ago.
Prediction.
Harvard President Claudine Gay will resign, but she will not admit any wrongdoing.
Instead, she will claim to be the victim of a racist right-wing witch hunt that is impacting her mental health and causing needless distraction for students and faculty.
And then, of course, here's one more from Greg Price with her doing just that.
Breaking, Claudine Gay just published an op-ed in New York Times where she decries attacks on education and expertise, says she fell into a well-laid trap before Congress, and says that the people who called for her firing trafficked in lies and stereotypes about black Talent.
So yes, she did exactly what you predicted, Colin.
I suppose that that little man who tried not to move too much in the meme is not surprised by any of this?
colin wright
No, I mean, it's not difficult to predict when you observed how these types of identitarians work.
So remember, the objective of ideologies like CRT, it's not to ask whether racism occurred, but really how and to what extent a given interaction was fueled by racism.
You know, they believe it's just baked into every social interaction imaginable.
And then we've seen the people like, you know, the usual suspects, Ibram Kendi, regurgitating those, you know, their pathetic rehearsed lines about how this is white supremacy and we're all afraid of black excellence.
You know, he actually said that gay wouldn't have been investigated or pressured to resign if this was a white woman.
But, you know, I'm coming from a science background.
We actually have a near-perfect natural experiment to look at that controlled for these relevant variables.
Liz McGill at Penn was another female president, Ivy League University, facing backlash for identical remarks at the same congressional hearing, but
unlike Gay, McGill was white and didn't have 50 charges of plagiarism against her.
Right.
And she received no support and resigned almost immediately.
So I mean, these claims are just so easily debunked.
It's completely at odds with reality.
dave rubin
Right.
And I said that on Fox a couple of days ago.
To me, it was like the anti-Semitism thing.
I actually think because she was a black woman, she would have got away with it.
It was only because of 50 plus counts of plagiarism that finally they were like, all right, this is a bit much.
But Andy, you are well-versed in the radical left and some of their tactics.
Do you think in a weird way they view her resigning?
And by the way, she's keeping her $900,000 salary and will be part of the political science department at Harvard, so it's not like she's getting smacked down too hard.
Do you think in a weird way they wanted this outcome because in some ways it proves their theory that the black woman in power will always be taken out, so it just adds more fuel to that?
andy ngo
No, I don't think they actually wanted this outcome.
I think up until now, the elite woke who have control over institutions have had just win after win.
And, you know, the takedown of Claudine Gay is symbolic in the sense that she's just one among many, many powerful figures who are part of this apparatus of DEI, CRT and woke ideology.
However, I do think her resignation disgraces, though the outcome is a mixed bag and that it's not, you know, she she retains a tenured position at Harvard and will continue to have influence over her colleagues and students, despite committing the worst sin in academia, which is plagiarism.
But I think those who have dedicated Advocacy against the I should really see the significance of this as overall a huge victory because of the fact that there was Some buy-in from the mainstream liberal left not entirely But enough enough that we see it and we hear it and that's actually really significant.
I think the power of the woke left or whatever you want to call it the far left and Isn't the fact that they have been able to have such a stranglehold and control over mainstream liberal elite institutions and cultures, and for there now to be very small cracks to be showing, you can see how those who are sort of have benefited from this have been reacting.
They're reacting.
They're really freaking out, which is why they are treating this her resignation as such a horrific thing to have happened.
Um, because they're scared, and we, those who want to see this entire system topple really have to keep up the pressure.
The work that Rufo and others like him have done on Claudine Gay and others has been so important, and we really have to support their journalism and their activism.
dave rubin
Indeed, indeed, and you're actually giving me a perfect segue there, because when you talk about those cracks breaking through to the mainstream, Coleman Hughes, who's an author, he's also been on the show, and I think another guy that you could probably consider on that sort of center left side a couple years ago, who, let's say, has shifted, who happens to be black, well, he was on CNN, and they asked him about what should have happened to Claudine Gay.
abby phillip
So you don't think there was anything about this that had to do with the fact that she was a black woman from the people who were claiming this as a victory against DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion?
coleman hughes
I don't think it did.
And you know what?
Even if it did, that doesn't justify it.
If you or I did this, or even any white scholar, it would be career-ending to have 50 examples of plagiarism.
And it has to be, because how can you be the one upholding Harvard's integrity when you yourself have failed?
It's as if the commissioner of the Major League Baseball, or the NBA, had a lifelong history of steroid use and was now the person in charge of kicking other people out for steroid use.
It's completely untenable.
abby phillip
What's your view on whether or not this idea that the race of the person accused is not important here?
unidentified
So I think it's definitely a point here that really we have to look at because, you know, the example you gave for the president of Stanford, you know, when he came on, he had seven months of an investigation.
There was an internal investigation.
Kirkland Ellis was hired to actually go through and do a thorough view of the analysis of all of his academic work to go back and find that there was very serious allegations of plagiarism.
Harvard Corporation did an investigation.
They could have done an internal investigation.
It took several months.
Why is it that it took seven weeks to decide that this was too much, whereas the president of Stanford got seven months for similar allegations?
abby phillip
I mean, why do you think?
Obviously, I should say, I mean, there was obviously the anti-Semitism issue, her testimony before Congress, which put her in the hot water to begin with, but after Harvard Move past that, internally, this was the thing.
coleman hughes
Yes, this was the thing.
My question about the internal Harvard review that you seem to think was a very rigorous process is how did they only find, what, four or five examples of it when there were 50, almost 50 to find?
And plagiarism, it's not like true crime where there's a million perspectives on it.
You kind of either lifted the paragraph or you didn't.
dave rubin
It's just great work right there by Coleman.
Like, he's just telling the truth.
It's interesting because the other guest isn't saying that plagiarism is okay, but he's basically like, oh, well, they just did this too quickly.
Like, that's not legit in academic circles, is it, Colin?
colin wright
Not even a little bit.
I mean, we're seeing this sort of language game, trying to not even call it plagiarism, call it duplicative language.
You know, I've seen a lot of activists come out and saying, oh, you don't know what plagiarism really is.
But her plagiarism violated Harvard's letter of what plagiarism actually is, overtly, in about every single way possible.
So yeah, I mean, Coleman is, of course, right on, that if you're at a place like, you know, Harvard, which is supposed to be the most prestigious university in the world, Having this mar on your record of academic fraud is just completely unacceptable.
It would be one thing if she was the head of a corporation or something that's selling phones or something like that, but this is an academic institution, so you need to have the utmost rigor with who's representing these things.
You can't have the double standard for the president versus the students that are being expelled for much lesser infractions.
dave rubin
Andy, do you think this is going to light a fire through the other academic institutions, not just the Ivy League, but where we're going to find out that a whole bunch of professors, of presidents, of faculty members, all sorts of people have been lifting things, stealing, not having the proper qualifications, etc.? ?
andy ngo
Well, I don't think the institutions themselves will have a fire under them to do reviews of their faculty.
dave rubin
I suppose a Rufo fire, let's say.
andy ngo
Yes.
Well, what I do have hope in and is that more, you know, with the investigations into colliding gay that were done by grassroots activists, that is the altogether thousands of hours split among essentially crowdsourced through the public, not entirely the public, but a number of people working paragraph by paragraph through her work.
Now for that level of analysis to be applied to other academics and other so-called leaders, it's going to take a lot of work and I hope now that this can continue because I think The outrageous reactions we've seen from some of the DEI ideologues may be because some of them have in their own background, in their own work, things that they would not want people to scrutinize.
We're having a little taste of that with Ibram X. Kendi's research and the There are former colleagues of his at his so-called anti-racism research center who have now accused him of really serious misconduct.
That center has had millions and millions of money poured into research that they haven't produced really anything.
And so this type of scrutiny really has to be applied to not just individuals, but also institutions.
I think the SPLC needs to be scrutinized in that way.
As well as other so-called like hate watch organizations that purport to protect civil rights.
dave rubin
And by the way, now that we have AI, it's gonna be a hell of a lot easier to be comparing and contrasting old papers and new papers and doing some of the research, as opposed to manually having grad students going through all this stuff, trying to figure out if they were copy and paste jobs.
But let's move over to the second topic, because I mentioned this is the woke week that was, and we got some wins.
So it is a win, one way or another, that Claudine Gay is no longer the president of Harvard.
Another win was the reaction by the fans to this new director of the Star Wars film.
So, yes, Star Wars has handed its $67 billion empire, whatever is left of its empire, to a feminist.
Take a look.
unidentified
So the first woman and the first person of color to direct a Star Wars film.
It's set to be released in 2026.
You can say that the force is strong with this one.
Here's Sharmino Bechinoi.
You know, I'm very thrilled about the project because I think what we are about to create is something very special.
And we're in 2024 now, and I think it's about time that we had a woman come forward to shape the story in a galaxy far, far away.
dave rubin
Okay, first off, everyone's heard me on this.
Kathleen Kennedy has been running Star Wars for the last 10 years.
She is a woman.
She has basically completely destroyed it.
Colin, I think you're a big Star Wars guy as well.
I suspect you are not thrilled that they have handed this to a woman who thinks that, in and of itself, being a woman is a reason to direct Star Wars.
colin wright
I mean, it's all the same stuff with the identitarianism, you know?
So they're just injecting the activism directly into the films, and this is the problem with a lot of the woke ideologues.
They can't just make movies that embody their vision.
They have to make the movie overtly about the activism itself, and it always ends up being cringe.
If you want to challenge norms, Just write your strong female characters.
This has been done in ways that doesn't center activism.
Sigourney Weaver in Alien, Jennifer Lawrence, Hunger Games.
I even usually bring up like things like Bridesmaids which I thought it was a hilarious movie with an all-female cast because they wrote good characters and they're funny but then you have Another movie, Female Ghostbusters, which had almost the exact same cast, and it was terrible because it was overtly shoving activism down our throats.
So the last thing that the Star Wars needs is to continue down this activist path.
Just write the good characters and the good stories.
So, I mean, hopefully once they see the numbers of the box office, we'll change course, but it might take a few more for them to really get the picture.
dave rubin
Wouldn't that be something, making art for art's sake?
By the way, I have a technical question maybe one of you guys can help me out with.
I bought, years ago, the female Ghostbusters on Apple TV because I wanted to see it just so I could talk about it on the show.
I knew it was going to be horrible, but how do you delete something that you bought on Apple TV?
I don't know that it's possible.
I can't...
All right, I'm gonna have my crack team get on that.
I wanna show you a video.
So this is from eight years ago.
This is this woman, her name Obiad Shenoy.
This is her talking about, Jon Stewart's interviewing her, and you'll recognize a couple other people on the panel, talking about what her intentions are when she gets a film in her hand.
unidentified
What is the balance of activating a force for change, but also trying to permeate That patriarchy, that power structure.
And is that a part of the calculation of your art as well?
And what's been the reaction to that?
Oh, absolutely.
I like to make men uncomfortable.
I enjoy making men uncomfortable.
Not you, just not you.
Point taken, point taken.
But, you know, it is important to be able to look into the eyes of a man and say, I am here, and recognize that.
And recognize that I am working to bring something that makes you uncomfortable, and it should make you uncomfortable, because you need to change your attitude.
And it's only when you're uncomfortable, when you're shifty, when you have to have difficult conversations, that you will perhaps look at yourself in the mirror and not like the reflection, and then say maybe there is something wrong with the way I think, or maybe there is something wrong with the way I am addressing this issue.
dave rubin
Andy, I remember when I was five years old, the first time I saw Star Wars, and I went into the bathroom after, and I stared in the mirror for like an hour, and I said, you're a horrible person, Dave.
You're a boy.
You're just a... They're killing everything.
And by the way, Jon Stewart, yeah, you gotta break the patriarchy.
Like, what a cuck.
That's what they say, a cuck, yeah.
andy ngo
So my reaction after seeing some of these injuries of this female director, I wasn't familiar with her before, You know, the arrogance that one has to have to feel, to be quite openly careless about... She's been handed this legacy of this film franchise that has taken decades and decades to build, has millions of fans around the world.
I mean, personally, I'm not a Star Wars fan, so it doesn't personally mean a lot to me, but I know through friends and Throughout people in my life growing up, how much it has meant to them.
And, you know, what we haven't seen the film that, um, you know, and we won't for a long time until it comes out, which she ultimately makes, but people should be concerned that somebody who has this history of saying these things of having a, a political philosophical agenda in her work is now been handed this huge franchise with this legacy.
Um, I just think first off that it's, it's really hugely disrespectful to the fans.
And I think, um, it, I mean, it, it speaks to the, the lead, the lack of leadership, I think from Disney and how they've handled huge, um, uh, you know, their brand.
I mean, we saw with the live action of Snow White, with their lead for the Snow White actress saying all these things, essentially crapping all over the first Disney film that made Disney have the legacy it has today.
For her to dismiss it in these interviews about how it was essentially a bad film and that Snow White was a bad character.
We see the arrogance coming from not just actors and films, which is unfortunately to be expected, but also from directors.
dave rubin
And by the way, Disney announced a few years ago, when they got both Star Wars and Marvel, that they were going to push Star Wars to be more for young girls and the Marvel Universe to be more for young boys.
So that is a type of social engineering, isn't it Colin?
colin wright
Yeah, absolutely.
This is all part of a bigger pattern that you see happening in so many different institutions where They take an institution that has this legacy, this history, this earned prestige, and then the activists just at the 11th hour hop in the driver's seat, commandeer the whole thing, just to use as a megaphone to spout their own ideologies and undermine the entire legacy that's there.
We see this with the ACLU.
We're seeing this with Harvard, how all this prestige they had, now they're just You know, spouting racialist ideologies.
Star Wars is doing this now.
We've seen medical institutions do this.
This is just part of the broader activist narrative of sort of taking over the institutions and commandeering them to their own ends.
And yeah, I think this is a pattern that we're seeing and it's going to keep going and hopefully we can start pushing back against this.
And I think, again, at the box offices is where ultimately it's going to get the pushback that it deserves.
dave rubin
Right, the pushback is the key part.
So I mentioned there were some wins.
So it's a win for Claudine Gay to have resigned.
I think there's a reaction win in this Star Wars story.
There was nobody out there like, this is a great idea.
Everybody was pushing against it.
We'll see ultimately what the movie will look like.
I want to show another one that I think we can frame as a win because finally it seems to me that what's going on at our border here is bubbling up into the mainstream.
It's gotten so out of control that mainstream is finally starting to cover it.
Check out what this migrant caravan, this is the largest migrant caravan heading to the U.S.
right now.
It's known as the Poverty Exodus.
About 15,000 people.
Take a look.
unidentified
[Music]
dave rubin
Andy, they're not criminals, they're international workers.
That might be true.
I suspect that's not the case for everybody, but isn't it a moot point?
We have a border and you can't just rampage through our border, or I guess you can.
andy ngo
What surprises me is that people are shocked and surprised when they see these videos because this has been going on at a similar scale now at the U.S.
southern border for years.
I mean, What does this mean for the U.S. and China? What is the U.S.
response to the U.S. and China's response to the U.S. and China's recent military intervention?
In the U.S. and China's response?
If you're in a community in one of the northern states, you're not going to be impacted in the same way.
Whereas with migrant crises that happen, let's say in Europe, You know, when a whole country is the size of one state and you have hundreds of thousands of people coming in, people do see and they react and politics shift very rapidly because of that.
In the US, things move a bit more slowly.
I think it's actually been really important in terms of raising awareness that we've had governors now allowing Um, these asylum seekers to then go to a city destination of choice, such as Chicago and New York.
And now the impact that it's happening is these other places is making it more of a bigger issue for Democrats.
That's important.
It's unfortunate that it has to, that they have to feel the impact of mass illegal migration for them to start pushing back.
Um, But yeah, if that pressure is not spread evenly, the Democrats will continue to—I mean, what they would like is for it to continue to turn a blind eye and just mislead the public about how serious this problem is.
dave rubin
Right, so Colin, I know this one isn't a win yet because we're watching this happen to our border right now and certainly if you live in those border cities or you live in the sanctuary cities, this is no good and it'll proliferate everywhere actually.
But the reason I view it as a win is if we flash back to that stick character who was a little bit on the left a couple years ago, this seems to be an issue that is waking up people and is shifting their voting habits.
colin wright
Exactly.
As Andy mentioned, you're getting now Democrats that are starting to talk about this because of that concerted effort to make it impacted to the blue states, so they actually are feeling the type of immigration that a lot of the red states and border states have been feeling for a while now.
It's hard to believe this is even a controversial issue.
I remember 10 years ago, I hadn't really paid attention to the border issue.
I was arguing with a friend about why it's important to have borders, They told me there was no real crisis because only something like a hundred thousand people came over a month and at the time I didn't even know that that was the stat and it just was completely shocking to me.
My guess was probably it was on the order of maybe 10,000 a month or something and let me be clear 10,000 would also be a ridiculous number so I mean I just think sometimes you just see the numbers and And they just don't mean anything.
You just add another zero.
I don't even know how to comprehend this amount of people.
So the only way to get people to actually do something is when it shows up in their communities.
So I think we're on a track to get a victory here as well.
dave rubin
Right, and the reason, at least one of the reasons, that the numbers don't seem to mean anything is because our leaders and their spokespeople just give us complete nonsense.
Check out Corinne Jean-Pierre.
We're going to show her from this week, and then it's going to show what she was saying two weeks ago.
unidentified
A couple weeks ago, you had said what we're seeing at the border isn't unusual.
But in the month of December, there were more than 302,000 migrant encounters, the highest total for a single month ever reported.
So does the administration concede that what we're seeing now is unusual?
What I said was, to be exact, is that what we're seeing at the U.S.
karine jean-pierre
is ebbs and flows in how many migrants arrive at the border.
unidentified
It's something that happens every year.
It ebbs and flows.
karine jean-pierre
And what we're seeing here at the border, the migration flow, increased migration flow, certainly it ebbs and flows and we're at a time of the year where we're seeing more at the border.
unidentified
And it's not unusual.
This is an immigration system that has been broken for decades.
dave rubin
I will give her some sort of credit there in that she did say two weeks ago that it ebbs and flows, but Andy, she's treating immigration as if it's weather.
Like, oh yes, it's December and it's a little bit colder and when we get, like this is just complete nonsense and it's irrelevant.
We either have a border or we don't.
andy ngo
Well, it's no surprise that she would downplay the seriousness of what's been happening because immigration, when it's made as an issue for voters, that does not benefit the Democrat Party.
So, I mean, it's unfortunate that it's had to take such a long, ongoing crisis for the administration to be asked more and more.
The longer questions I have, though, is What can this or the next administration do?
Even under the Trump administration, a completed border wall was unable to take place.
This is an issue that seems going to be With America, because of our politics, potentially indefinitely, I don't know if there's a will really to shut down the pathways and routes for mass illegal migration to the U.S.
You know, it's not and people often think about it.
It's like, as Colin said, it's numbers.
20,000, 200,000, 500,000 million.
These numbers just become kind of abstract when you see them as numbers.
But the impact on housing, on resources, the significant strain on taxpayer funds that are needed to house and to feed and to educate all these people who come in.
And of course, it's a security issue as well.
When people are coming in, usually with no documents, Because they destroy their identity papers, so you don't even know who they even are.
So it's, unfortunately, this is, it seems like a problem that there's no will in either really party or way to stop.
dave rubin
Andy, you gave me another great segue to the final segment today, because you've been covering these Antifa protests for years, and now, as you mentioned, you're in the UK now, in London, and you've been covering a lot of these pro-Hamas rallies, which of course are not only happening in London, but all over Europe, and in the United States, and in Canada, and elsewhere.
Tomorrow, on January 6th, there is supposedly going to be a massive And this was advertised by BLM, so you can see how these things are really connected, BLM and Hamas and the rest of it.
A massive rally in the UK.
I want to just show you the ad that they're putting out for this thing.
unidentified
[MUSIC]
[MUSIC]
dave rubin
Andy, let me jump back to you first on this because when I was in London,
when I saw you at the R conference, I drove by one of those rallies.
And it was very obvious to me that it would not have been safe if I was outside,
we have, and recognized certainly.
It's very obvious that the Jewish community in London does not feel safe.
There are pro-Hamas posters, River to the Sea, all of the slogans, et cetera, et cetera.
You've been covering this from America, from Portland with Antifa to now.
Can you just talk about this confluence of strange issues that are all coming together?
andy ngo
So the makeup of the, I'll just call them pro-Palestine demonstrations that have happened in the UK, the political makeup is pretty similar to the US.
All over in the West, actually, you see this strange bedfellows coalition of Palestinian
nationalists, Arab nationalists, Muslim radicals, Islamists, jihadist sympathizers, liberals
and the radical left.
Some of these groups have nothing in common, in fact, are quite against one another.
But together, they are protesting for this particular cause.
In the UK, since the 7th of October, as in many, many countries around the world, we've seen these huge demonstrations that have, at times, led to instances of violence, extremism, anti-Semitism, and property destruction.
I think in the UK, there are restrictions on, for example, inviting support for a banned
terrorist group.
Hamas is one of those groups.
So the language is slightly, it can be a bit more subtle in the UK because there have been
a number, there have been dozens of people who have been arrested at some of these rallies
due to signs and statements they've made that are perceived by law enforcement to be violent
extremists.
We don't have those limitations in the US and you can kind of see, in my view, more
of the true face of what the mainstream pro-Palestine demonstrations are by looking at what happens
You see those who bring over and over Hamas flags, pictures of Hamas leadership.
The chants are much more explicit in their calls for violence.
It's a bit more toned down in Europe In some most instances, although not always, because there are more Muslims in the UK and in Western Europe than there are in America, you see much more of a attempt by Islamists to explicitly make this into a religious conflict where it is now the religious duty of Muslims to show solidarity for Palestine by any means necessary.
And there have been Already a number of terror attacks have happened in the UK and Western Europe since the 7th of October that law enforcement say were inspired by the current conflict involving Israel and Hamas.
dave rubin
Right, and then you look back to the previous segment we just did and we are allowing hundreds of thousands of people into our borders having no idea what they believe or where their allegiances are or anything else.
But you bring up an interesting point about speech and what is allowed and what is not.
I think the main thing that we're struggling with here, it's one thing if you're gonna chant river to the sea and whatever and what are the limits of the First Amendment are.
The other thing is though they are blocking bridges, they are stopping traffic, stopping people from getting to airports.
Here's video on New Year's Day protesters at the Rose Parade in Pasadena.
unidentified
[crowd chanting]
dave rubin
Colin, I'm fairly certain that if Israel was losing, they would not be calling for a ceasefire.
They'd be pretty thrilled.
But that aside, how long do you think a society can hold when, on any given day, any group, with whatever their grievances, can shut down a bridge, shut down an airport, shut down a parade, stop people from going into a mall, et cetera, et cetera?
That, to me, seems like the issue.
They're sort of testing what Western societies are willing to tolerate, and I think we're failing the test.
colin wright
Exactly.
I mean, it's mind-boggling how we don't just enforce the law as written and remove people from streets who are blocking, you know, the flow of traffic.
You know, I'm actually going to count this as another win.
You know, we've been trying to tally some wins going on here.
It might seem like hard to find a win out of all of this, but there is a silver lining in this because I think With regard to the whole Palestine and Hamas and all this stuff, the woke left's mask has completely fallen off here.
Their aggressive ideology is fully exposed.
We see the woke identitarian ideologies like CRT and decolonization, we see where these things lead, where they sort of have this simplified oppressor-oppressed Being a decolonizer apparently means you can justify anything against colonizers, including rape and murder.
It's woken up so many liberals, moderate liberals, from the dangers of wokeness, and I believe we've reached a tipping point here.
We've waited for a sort of mass awakening to push back against the threat of the Great Awakening.
Like, we've had gay ousted, more universities are ejecting DEI, corporations are too.
We need to ensure that this momentum doesn't lead up.
You know, DEI capitalized on the momentum from George Floyd's death, pushed the radical ideology far and wide.
Now it's our turn to sort of march it back to where it was, you know, not only where it was, but, you know, back out of America for good, I think.
So I think this is a win, and we're going to see some improvements from here, at least I hope.
dave rubin
Colin, I always try to end the show on a positive note.
You gave me the win on that one, so I thank you.
You're welcome back anytime.
Andy, as always, you're welcome back.
Have a great weekend, guys.
And for everybody else, we have a post-game show coming up in about 30 seconds at RubinReport.Locals.com.
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