July 27, 2023 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
46:05
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unidentified
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♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ | |
| ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ | ||
| Or if you're our new alien overlords, who apparently we just found out about yesterday, | ||
| I'm Dave Rubin. | ||
| This is The Rubin Report. | ||
| We are at the local studio in Miami. | ||
| I told you guys I was going off the grid. | ||
| We did our big off-the-grid bonanza show, but then yesterday I got a text. | ||
| Rudy Giuliani said, I'm coming to Miami. | ||
| Can you sit down with me? | ||
| And I said, Mr. Mayor, I will delay my vacation for a couple hours for you. | ||
| How you doing, my friend? | ||
| It's good to see you. | ||
| You deserve it. | ||
| Well, let's see if you can send me off in style. | ||
| I will. | ||
| First off, it's great to see you. | ||
| We did the Patrick Baty podcast a couple weeks ago. | ||
| I enjoyed that. | ||
| I got so much feedback on that. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| We battled politically. | ||
| They wanted us to battle. | ||
| But in a way, people like it. | ||
| We did it like the old-fashioned way, and that's strange. | ||
| I mean, without getting angry at each other, but really intense. | ||
| Are you telling me there was once a time when people could disagree about politics and not want to kill each other? | ||
| They might break bread and sit down. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, we were actually at one time rational. | |
| It was a long time ago. | ||
| Alright, well I'm always thrilled to sit down with you and everyone knows most of my formative years I spent in New York City when you were the mayor and I was there for 9-11 and I wrote about you in my book because you've just done so many incredible things but I thought for however long you want to do it, up top, you want to get into any of this legal nonsense? | ||
| Sure, whatever you want to ask, it's always worth clarifying it because there are some people That forget that most of what they get from 80% of the media is nowadays not even... Oh 80, you're being nice. | ||
| I am being nice. | ||
| You are being nice. | ||
| It used to be kind of warped. | ||
| Now it's flat out false and untrue. | ||
| So the latest one is, I admitted that I lied About the two women in Atlanta who were on video appearing to be taking ballots out of | ||
| out of a box that was under a big blanket, and they had gotten rid of all the Republicans, and they were furiously counting ballots, and they were alleged to be involved in violating the law, because in Georgia, you have to have a person present when you do that, and you can see them on the video throwing everybody out. | ||
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unidentified
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Right. | |
| So this was the video that everyone kind of saw. | ||
| So they sued me. | ||
| They sued me, and they alleged that I'm lying about that. | ||
| That the words are false, that I have intent, and that they can violate my First Amendment privilege because it's so bad, what I said. | ||
| So, in order to get to the heart of the case, we've made a stipulation, which is very common in the law. | ||
| We concede, for the purposes of the case, that first allegation that it was untrue. | ||
| We don't admit it. | ||
| We don't deny it. | ||
| We just put it aside and say it doesn't matter if it's true or false, because we have such a strong and winning case on lack of intent and on our First Amendment defenses. | ||
| Second reason. | ||
| That first part would be tried before an Atlanta—I'm sorry, a Washington jury. | ||
| And my chances of winning before a Washington jury are none. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So we get the Washington jury unfairness out. | ||
| So now the press says Giuliani admits lying. | ||
| You look at the document carefully, it says this is just for the purpose of that case. | ||
| It's not an admission of lying. | ||
| It's not contesting it. | ||
| And I can't contest lying anyplace else in the world. | ||
| But they don't bother to read the rest of it. | ||
| And something like this, of course, as a lawyer for 50 years, I've probably done 500 times. | ||
| And it's well known in the law. | ||
| It's a stipulation where you don't admit or deny, so that you don't have to fight over this part of the case. | ||
| Even though you think you might win, it might take you so long and cost you so much money, when you can win on this part of the case much faster and much cheaper. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So pardon my legal naivete for a moment. | ||
| So what do you want to happen next now? | ||
| Forgetting what the public perception of what happened is. | ||
| Well this will permit me to not have to go through a big long trial, and we will get to a legal decision on In trying to hold me responsible for defamation, aren't they violating my First Amendment rights? | ||
| My rights to represent my client and have that position as a lawyer. | ||
| True or false? | ||
| See? | ||
| True or false. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't have to get into proving. | ||
| That it was false, which would take a long time. | ||
| Meaning, just to clarify, so you have the right to free speech, of course, and you as a lawyer have a right to defend somebody. | ||
| Which goes even beyond that. | ||
| Right, regardless of whether what they're saying is right or wrong or anything. | ||
| And we think if we get it out of the biased D.C. | ||
| district, and we get it up to the more General legal principles are applied in the DC circuit. | ||
| And I also think we got a chance to go to the Supreme Court because it is a perfect example of the censorship that's going on now because I was being censored. | ||
| So we want to get it on the fast track there. | ||
| So when you do that, you make stipulations. | ||
| So we made the stipulation. | ||
| The lawyers did it in the language it's been a hundred times. | ||
| Never interpreted that way. | ||
| And of course the fake media immediately says, Giuliani admits that he's lying! | ||
| Well, I'm not lying. | ||
| I didn't admit it. | ||
| I didn't even admit it for that case, I just didn't contest it. | ||
| And I have to tell you, I'm proud of myself. | ||
| I woke up this morning, I saw it in the newspapers, I put it down and I went back to sleep. | ||
| Well the funny thing is that I saw, I think we texted and then literally it was like five minutes later I see the headline. | ||
| And I'm like, oh, I'm trying to go off for August. | ||
| Why am I getting in? | ||
| But then I was like, wait, why am I believing anything that the media says? | ||
|
unidentified
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Of course. | |
| And of course, it's a perfect day to run this because Hunter Biden is totally falling apart. | ||
| And they always look for something. | ||
| Now, if something even better comes along where they can try to bury it, they'll take me out of it. | ||
| The aliens. | ||
| We got non-biological humans or something crashed. | ||
| Very exciting. | ||
| You can't surprise you. | ||
| I mean, you went to New York City most of your life. | ||
| Aliens? | ||
| I saw Men in Black. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| I think I've met them. | ||
| You probably do. | ||
| And, in fact, some of them might do a better job in the White House. | ||
| Well, I have no doubt about that. | ||
| Anything else you want to say just about the last couple of years of, like, just the haywire? | ||
| I'd rather get into your career. | ||
| I would like to say about the last couple of years that we can't laugh about it. | ||
| This is extremely serious. | ||
| And when some of the candidates tell you that this election is truly about saving America, they're right. | ||
| If we don't get this next election right, we officially become a fascist country if we aren't that right now. | ||
| So how worried are you that because so much of what happens electorally is left to the states, that certain states like Florida where we are, we have airtight elections? | ||
| I think I told you this when I saw you. | ||
| It was such a pleasure. | ||
| To vote here. | ||
| Show my ID. | ||
| Have them match it. | ||
| Walk to the box. | ||
| A guy standing there. | ||
| Get a piece of paper. | ||
| It was so perfect. | ||
| And contrast that with Los Angeles, where I walked in, I tried to show my ID just out of force of habit. | ||
| The guy... | ||
| Goes like this. | ||
| So how worried are you that no matter what we do right in certain states, that the three or four states that are purple or blue that really matter, it just won't make a difference? | ||
| Very. | ||
| In fact, I think at this point, anything can change. | ||
| That would be the only way we lose. | ||
| And now I'm not just talking about my candidate, Trump, or DeSantis, or who knows, Tim Scott, I'm talking about Republicans will win this election because there's more to come out. | ||
| And now the floodgates have opened. | ||
| I don't see how they close it now. | ||
| You're talking about Hunter and the laptop? | ||
| I've been wrong in the past because I thought some of the revelations in the past, which is like when I got the hard drive, because I was the only one who had it, right? | ||
| Does that seem insane to you? | ||
| I said to myself, this election's over. | ||
| This election's over. | ||
| And of course they did something I could never, I don't think anybody anticipated. | ||
| They did a total censorship. | ||
| On a piece of evidence that the FBI had validated eight months before. | ||
| The FBI let that go on and didn't intervene. | ||
| The FBI watched Joe Biden go on national television during a debate and say that Donald Trump and me, Rudolph Giuliani, were Russian pawns. | ||
| They knew it wasn't true. | ||
| Eight months earlier, they knew it wasn't true, and they did nothing to correct it. | ||
| I mean, that is about as frightening as it gets. | ||
| On top of the collusion with Big Tech. | ||
| Oh, forget the collusion with Big Tech, the paid for Russian collusion allegations. | ||
| Hillary, by this point, they knew that Hillary paid $1.1 million. | ||
| I mean, that's right a play. | ||
| How do you make up a story? | ||
| I do want to get into some of your past history, which I think led you to being able to do these fights and wake up every morning and read something stupid and then go back to sleep. | ||
| Do something to you. | ||
| It must upset you at some level. | ||
|
unidentified
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It does. | |
| Personally. | ||
| In that if someone said Rudy Giuliani in 2003 in America, you were loved by everybody. | ||
| And now they have framed it. | ||
| I know plenty of people that love you. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| I know what you did for that city and for this country. | ||
| But they've created a caricature that is disconnected from the person that I know. | ||
| I don't know how to describe this best, David. | ||
| Most of the time it doesn't bother me. | ||
| Like today it didn't. | ||
| Today was a good day. | ||
| I laughed at it. | ||
| Someday, some little thing that they misrepresent about me will get me all upset. | ||
| And I will get into what normal people do, which is maybe they'll never get over it, maybe this will be my real legacy. | ||
| And then after a while, I think about it. | ||
| And I think about the bigger picture. | ||
| And I think about the fact that I've been true to myself. | ||
| And I think about the fact that my father would be proud of me. | ||
| And I say that's more important. | ||
| That's eventually going to win out. | ||
| If it isn't here, it'll be in heaven. | ||
| And I do feel proud that I'm doing the right thing for my country. | ||
| I'm also proud of the fact that if it wasn't for me, none of this would be out. | ||
| When I listen to them debate this, I sometimes say to myself, wow, they would have known none of this if I didn't put out the original information way back in 2019, early 2019, when I went on Hannity Show. | ||
| And went to John Solomon and said, look what I have. | ||
| I have a bribe. | ||
| The one we're talking about now. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I have a bribe from Mykolas Olszewski to Joe Biden. | ||
| Would you believe he's a crook? | ||
| And I produced The Witnesses. | ||
| You go back to my third podcast. | ||
| It's a live interview with Mr. Shulkin. | ||
| You don't have to go through all these shenanigans. | ||
| You got the prosecutor telling you, he fired me because I was going after the company and his son. | ||
| Which Biden has basically admitted to while he was VP, right? | ||
| Right, except he did it because the guy was corrupt. | ||
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unidentified
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Right, right, right. | |
| There is no evidence in the file that he's corrupt. | ||
| And the press very, very corruptly avoids an actual recording Between Poroshenko and Biden, in which Poroshenko tells Biden that he's going to have to make up the corruption. | ||
| And you know that Biden approves the new prosecutor. | ||
| How does Biden get to approve the new prosecutor? | ||
| How does the Vice President approve the new prosecutor if he isn't involved in a corrupt scheme to make sure the case is dismissed? | ||
| Also, I'm fairly certain, I'd have to check in the Constitution, our Vice President doesn't have the real authority to be deciding who prosecutors are in other countries. | ||
| Or even in America! | ||
| Right, exactly, or even in America. | ||
| I guess maybe a little bit with the Attorney General he can offer some insight. | ||
| But are you worried that no matter how, like after the years of this, the lies and more lies and censorship, that you'll swim and you'll swim upstream and the machine just has a way of convincing people that up is down and left is right and two plus two is five? | ||
| Yeah, I am worried about that, sure. | ||
| Two very odd things happen here. | ||
| One good and one bad, I guess. | ||
| One is, I would say I could locate maybe five instances in which either I've come across, or somebody else has, a piece of information that at any other time, in any other place in American history, would have destroyed a candidate. | ||
| And all of us sitting around, people like Steve Bannon, and people like Dan Bongino, and people like you, and people who are knowledgeable, would say, wow, this is over. | ||
| This is over. | ||
| And it wasn't over, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or, on the other hand, we would have looked at Trump and said, he did something, either correctly interpreted or incorrectly interpreted or exaggerated, or we would have said, it's over. | ||
| Like after January 6th. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Everybody thought he'll never, he may resurrect some of his reputation because it's probably exaggerated somewhat, he'll never be able to run again. | ||
| Now he's leading everybody. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Do you find him, so you know I supported him and I've interviewed him and I'm friends with the kids and I like him, I happen to love DeSantis right now, what's going on here in Florida of course. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| Which we already did that game and we can talk about it a little bit if you want. | ||
| Do you find just in terms of being legal counsel for him, that because of his I'll say anything at any time, does that make you pull out some of the hair that's left? | ||
| Well, there used to be hair there before I represent. | ||
| I did all the pulling of hair that I can do. | ||
| And at this point, I'm convinced that you have to let him do it because he is a strange situation that I guess a lot of people accept but some don't. | ||
| He actually is an innocent man who's being falsely accused. | ||
| And the frustration, now having gone through a little of that myself, not at the level that he has, but they went after me for two years, took all my documents, took my iCloud account without telling me, listened to three years of my conversation without my knowing it, it does produce a certain Reaction that nobody's going to have until they go through it. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| So I think, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. | ||
| I also have seen how somehow what he does works out. | ||
| Maybe he's wiser than we are. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| And maybe that's what produces the personality where you can't get him down. | ||
| Maybe there's certain things you have to do to have that kind of personality because this man should be crushed. | ||
| If he were any other man. | ||
| The things they've done to him are unreal! | ||
| I have nothing but admiration for that. | ||
| They're unreal! | ||
| You know when I interviewed him I asked him about this and it probably relates to a little bit of your trajectory as well, but when I would watch, and I remember watching these things in the late 80s, 90s, watching him on Phil Donahue or watching him on Oprah, you know his affect was very soft. | ||
| There was a very pleasant way of doing everything and like a warmth and everything else, right. | ||
| From the times I've met him, yes. | ||
| But then I think the machine hits you so hard, you start becoming more gruff, you start becoming whatever, and then I think that leads to this. | ||
| So I do give him a long leash on that. | ||
| I would say it's sort of like you. | ||
| You were on Seinfeld, my favorite sitcom of all time, in what, 1994? | ||
| Oh, you weren't even mayor yet. | ||
| You were about... Right, it was the morning after I was elected. | ||
| Is that right? | ||
| I had no sleep. | ||
| Oh, right, because the episode, it was about... And it was going to be either me or Bloomberg, the way he did it. | ||
| He had that written in for whoever the mayor was. | ||
| Wait, you were Bloomberg? | ||
| Not Bloomberg, excuse me, David Dinkins. | ||
| It was either me or David Dinkins. | ||
| Right, thank God it wasn't Dinkins. | ||
| There were a lot of Rubens that lived in New York City in those years. | ||
| They've all since fled. | ||
| They stayed for you and then got out. | ||
| But my point is that someone like you, you were on Seinfeld, the number one sitcom in the country in 1994, and it's like Hollywood would not do something with you now. | ||
| And it's the same thing with Trump. | ||
| He was in Home Alone 2, and now they edited his scene out when they put it on... How about I hosted Saturday Night Live? | ||
| I was on Saturday... In drag! | ||
| Nine times. | ||
| Nine times. | ||
| And I hosted my own show. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| Now if they put me on, they'll get fired. | ||
| That'd be it. | ||
| That'd be it. | ||
| So alright, so let's move on from some of the legal stuff. | ||
| We're here in Florida. | ||
| You're sort of part-time Florida, New York, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| I have a condo in Florida and I come down as much as I can, which is less than I'd like, but I love it here. | ||
| Are you kind of blown away at the comparison between the two places right now? | ||
|
unidentified
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100%. | |
| It's really ridiculous. | ||
| I mean, there's no comparison between how much nicer it is here. | ||
| And during the pandemic is what really did it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, in New York, you felt like you were in some form of East Berlin, including right to the point of from the old Nazi movies. | ||
| Where are your papers? | ||
| Do you have papers? | ||
| Please show your papers. | ||
| You cannot come in here without your papers. | ||
| Literally, yeah. | ||
| Here you walk in. | ||
| I'm looking around for my papers. | ||
| The guy would say, come on in. | ||
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unidentified
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Oh, wow. | |
| We're in America again. | ||
| Luckily, we didn't put our life at risk by coming across the border like you did between East and West Berlin. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I mean, that, I think, for New Yorkers particularly, and that's why so many of the people that come here are New Yorkers, that was like a, that was like a mind blower. | ||
| I mean, it just, like, here we are in, in oppression, and here we are in pretty much an open society, and they're losing less people than we are. | ||
| Something's wrong here. | ||
| Were you in New York City during... So you were basically there for all of it. | ||
| I was basically there for most of it. | ||
| I couldn't get out. | ||
| And that's how I started my podcast. | ||
| That's how I started my radio show. | ||
| I started my podcast on my own, really on a thought that I wanted to have one going for 2020 when Trump was running. | ||
| And then John Castamatidis took over ABC, who's been a friend of mine for years, and asked me if I wouldn't do a pandemic show. | ||
| So my original radio show with Dr. Maria was about the pandemic because she was an expert on it. | ||
| And then it spread out into everything else. | ||
| So you're in New York City. | ||
| We have our Summer of Love, riots, everything else. | ||
| Which shocks the hell out of me because I was a mayor who took over a city that had had two major riots, including a pogrom. | ||
| And I vowed no riots. | ||
| I put a whole program in place that I borrowed, really, from a report that was done for Governor Cuomo, put a whole program in place on how to prevent a riot. | ||
| Since the day we put that program in effect, there's been no riots until then. | ||
| So, no riots on any Republican mayor. | ||
| First riot under a Democrat mayor. | ||
| We could go 20 years without one. | ||
| What were some of the things? | ||
| The most important one is the thing they violated right from the beginning. | ||
| You deal with the riot, if you can, even before it starts. | ||
| So the idea is, when the guy throws the first rock, arrest him. | ||
| The Dinkins idea was cooling off period. | ||
| Let him throw a couple of rocks. | ||
| If you arrest him, you're going to create the riot. | ||
| Let them bang up a couple of cars. | ||
| Maybe even bang up a couple of people. | ||
| But don't show too much police presence, and don't get involved early, because you'll make the riot worse. | ||
| My theory, based on thousands of years of criminology, and having been in the field for 40 years, is you deal with the smallest possible act, and it doesn't escalate. | ||
| You show them you're serious, and that's it. | ||
| So the guy throws the rock, arrest him, off. | ||
| Next guy breaks a window, arrest him, off. | ||
| Third guy spits at a cop, off. | ||
| The riot's over. | ||
| I've never had one. | ||
| I did that 30 times, never had a riot. | ||
| And of course people said you were mean and blah blah blah. | ||
| Yeah, I also would have... And the city was flourishing. | ||
| And I had no fear of having cops in riot gear. | ||
| Because cops in riot gear do not create riots. | ||
| Cops in riot gear scare the living daylights out of the rioters. | ||
| And they tell you, we're going to be serious. | ||
| We're not fooling around with you. | ||
| And I'm not doing that to be nasty to the rioters. | ||
| I'm doing that to save the property of all those innocent people that are right behind them, who lost billions of dollars in property, 27 lives. | ||
| And nobody's been prosecuted for that. | ||
| Meanwhile, they tortured the January 6th people, literally tortured them. | ||
| And they killed nobody. | ||
| In fact, they got killed. | ||
| So what would you do right now in New York? | ||
| We've talked about this a little bit, but I think it's worth repeating. | ||
| Because New York, I go back now, go to Midtown, it's sad, it's depressing, smells like weed everywhere. | ||
| I'm basically for legalization of marijuana, but there's no business people anymore. | ||
| Everybody's wandering around in a hoodie. | ||
| Yeah, dogs are dying of drugs because there's so much drugs they're left on the ground and the dog licks it up and the dog gets a seizure. | ||
| I mean, 7th Avenue below 42nd, which was the fashion district, there's just crack addicts everywhere. | ||
| You know what happened? | ||
| New York City combined two things, or maybe three things, where it is very weak. | ||
| All democratic cities are. | ||
| First of all, they tried to put together a very complex system. | ||
| Please notice, anytime Democrats try to put together a complex system, they fail. | ||
| Because they can't manage. | ||
| They're ideologically oriented. | ||
| It's like when Obama started Obamacare. | ||
| Remember, the computer went down for three months. | ||
| Right, it sounds good. | ||
| This is what they do. | ||
| They don't concentrate on things like that. | ||
| So they were going to set up legal Very well inspected centers for legal marijuana with a limit on the amount of marijuana and a certain amount of vetting as to who gets it so you're not giving it to addicts. | ||
| They took so long fighting over how to do that, about three years, that over 1,000 illegal shops set up in between. | ||
| The people are half in confusion as to whether it's legal or illegal. | ||
| It is legal, but you can only buy it from a state store. | ||
| Even though now, if you go to New York City, the shops are all over the place, but you don't know what it was. | ||
| But they're selling it illegally. | ||
| There are only eight legal ones. | ||
| There are 1,200 illegal ones. | ||
| So look who's winning. | ||
| Second, in those illegal ones, nowadays, a new thing happened they didn't anticipate then, called fentanyl. | ||
| You go into one of those shops, you're taking your life in your hands. | ||
| They don't even know they're giving you fentanyl. | ||
| It could be slipped into marijuana. | ||
| It could be slipped in people like to buy off-the-counter or illegal Percocet or oxycodone. | ||
| They think they're getting a prescription drug. | ||
| They shouldn't be using it, but still, they don't think they're using fentanyl, and boom, they're dead. | ||
| So we have a disaster now. | ||
| We have an epidemic of drug use at this point. | ||
| And it's not so much that we legalized heroin, we completely, ineffectively, inefficiently, grossly, negligently implemented it. | ||
| So there's almost no way we're going to the 1,200 illegal stores are going to be overwhelmed by the | ||
| 20 legal stores. | ||
| And it's just mind-blowing that they do it over and over and over again. | ||
| They need only look at San Francisco to see what the future of New York is, and yet they still do it, right? | ||
| We went from de Blasio to Eric Adams. | ||
| I mean, they in essence just said, okay, a little, I guess he's a little less crazy. | ||
| He's not a, I think de Blasio is actually a communist. | ||
| I don't know if Adams is. | ||
| Adams has the right ideas and doesn't know how to implement them. | ||
| He's got the right idea, then two things prevent him from implementing. | ||
| One is he gets frightened by the lefties. | ||
| They can intimidate him. | ||
| And number two, he's just not a manager. | ||
| He doesn't have the talent of being able to execute or think things through. | ||
| Like, how do I get those licenses out faster? | ||
| They also decided they wanted to give the license for legal distribution to ex-addicts. | ||
| They thought that was a nice symbolic gesture. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| But now you've got to check the background of all these addicts. | ||
| It takes a year. | ||
| And I'm not so sure the best thing to do is to give it to ex-addicts. | ||
| Ex-addicts are wonderful if they remain ex, but half of them go back. | ||
| So because I know you're a conservative in certain senses, obviously you're a Republican, and at one time You were running for president as a Republican and you were mayor as a Republican, but I know you have some libertarian beliefs as well. | ||
| I do. | ||
| You're a little more liberal in certain things. | ||
| In terms of marijuana, I don't want to get too lost in this, but what would your policy be if you were mayor now and you see that there's this problem with this, you want people to be able to have individual autonomy, how do you balance those things in a city of 8 million people? | ||
| So now we're not in a perfect world anymore. | ||
| I mean, could you have started this right and make it work? | ||
| Yeah, you could have. | ||
| You would have to have invested in enforcement. | ||
| You'd have to keep the mob out. | ||
| You'd have to keep, you'd have to have put in, oh gosh, like we did for private carding, private carding with control by the, by the mafia. | ||
| It took a lot to get up. | ||
| Then we put a commission in effect. | ||
| We checked everybody and now it works seamlessly. | ||
| Letting the illegals take over, you almost have to start over again. | ||
| You have to make it illegal again. | ||
| Get rid of all of them, and then start a new system. | ||
| Do you think there's enough, I don't know if this is the word, I don't want to say good people, but do you think there's enough true New Yorkers, in the sense that you and I know what that means, to fix what's going on there? | ||
| I don't see another Rudy Giuliani that's going to do it at a political level, or even the people there anymore. | ||
| You go to New York, it doesn't feel like what we know New York was. | ||
| I don't think that's a question we can answer until somebody tries to answer it. | ||
| Because if that same question were asked in 1984, 85, 86, a lot of people would have said, a lot of people have tried, nobody succeeded, it doesn't work. | ||
| My answer is, and probably because I still am an idealist, yes. | ||
| There is a conceivable person and then change of opinion on the part of New Yorkers that could bring it about. | ||
| Now, a bit of good news, you look at the last gubernatorial election, even the last mayoral | ||
| election where Adams beat Curtis Slewa. | ||
| Curtis did much better than the usual Republican, probably as well as anyone since Bloomberg | ||
| when he was a Republican. | ||
| He was a Republican, right. | ||
| A Zeldin, who ran against my son in the primary. | ||
| That was a good primary, my son. | ||
| If we didn't take 500,000 sane New Yorkers to Florida, he might have done it. | ||
| Yeah, but Zeldin ran a race where, what was he, five off. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Five off's not bad, plus we won all of Long Island. | ||
| So, yeah, I do see, I see the state possibly changing. | ||
| I would not Initially give up on New York for a Republican candidate this time. | ||
| Wouldn't put it on a top list, but I wouldn't put it where we usually put it, which is pay no attention to it. | ||
| Watch it for a while. | ||
| Because it almost elected a Republican governor. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If you could get New York back, the state back, You could start creating the groundwork for getting the city back. | ||
| So, no, it's not impossible, but very, very hard and a long shot. | ||
| How do you feel, personally, when you're walking around now, where, you know, you once were the hero of the city? | ||
| I mean, I will never, it is so ingrained in me, those days in 9-11, and I lived up by Gracie Mansion at the time, I was on 90th and York, and just, you basically saved that city, and in some ways the country, truly. | ||
| Walking around then, And the aftermath of that versus walking around now? | ||
| It's very personal. | ||
| If I let myself think about it, my heart is broken. | ||
| When I see it. | ||
| I keep hoping it's going to change. | ||
| I keep looking for things that will change it. | ||
| Half the time I'm really disappointed and I'm in the mindset you asked me about before. | ||
| I don't think it can be done. | ||
| And then the other half, I start thinking rationally and I start thinking about how different things can be put together. | ||
| I look at what we did in the last gubernatorial race, the last mayor's race. | ||
| I see the people getting so upset. | ||
| I mean, they're so, so upset. | ||
| But the Democrats have done such a good job of brainwashing. | ||
| It's frightening. | ||
| So I take a look at Chicago. | ||
| My goodness, Chicago, 55 years of Democratic rule. | ||
| They just had a choice between a very, very left and a left but somewhat moderate mayor. | ||
| They go with the very, very left mayor, after being destroyed by a very left mayor, who they threw out of office. | ||
| And now, last weekend, 33 shootings and 5 murders, which wasn't a bad weekend, right? | ||
| It's a running joke on our show, sadly, where I ask the guys, I guess, basically, how many people shot and killed, but it's never covered on mainstream media, because of course it doesn't... And please realize, they're mostly black people. | ||
| Internet administration run by blacks. | ||
| Which makes you wonder, and Black Lives Matter is located there. | ||
| They don't give a damn. | ||
| I mean, it's all about their making money, being powerful. | ||
| Does that also drive you nuts how everything still in 2023 from a certain set of people is so racial when you were mayor of the most diverse in the good sense of diverse, where everybody, you know, whether we loved each other or not, we were, I always think like, if you went on a sub, it's now 1997, you're on the subway in New York City. | ||
| Everybody from planet Earth is on that subway, and maybe some people not from planet Earth, and we're not killing each other. | ||
| And so New York was what America is really supposed to be. | ||
| Yeah, you know, one of these days I've got to have a camera with me for two or three days, just walk down the city. | ||
| I think people would be shocked by the number of minorities that come up and thank me. | ||
| I think they think in New York I must be very unpopular. | ||
| If I go to a democratic city, I'm very unpopular. | ||
| Not New York. | ||
| Not New York. | ||
| New York I get a little bit, but I get much more of, we want you back, we don't care if you—some of them will come up to me and say, it usually starts this way. | ||
| We used to love you. | ||
| You were a great mayor, great prosecutor. | ||
| I always know what's going to happen. | ||
| And then you supported Trump. | ||
| Now I get a final part of the chapter, and we forgive you. | ||
| Oh, that's nice. | ||
| Because we need you back. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We need you back. | ||
| And I'll say, we don't care about Trump anymore. | ||
| We need you back. | ||
| My God, could you come back? | ||
| Would you ever do it? | ||
| I don't know if I would ever do it. | ||
| Would you ever do it at this point? | ||
| I get begged to do it. | ||
| And black people, I don't even go through that thing. | ||
| They come up to me and say, thank you for getting me a job. | ||
| Jobs for 500,000 people. | ||
| And got them off, we call it work fare, which we should have right now. | ||
| Best thing you can do is get them a job. | ||
| I get people that come up to me three, four times a week thanking me for getting them a job. | ||
| And that makes up for some of the depression. | ||
| Would you ever do it? | ||
| Could they drag you back in? | ||
| I never say never. | ||
| I think it would be very, very unlikely. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It would be very unlikely. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You got a nice place in Florida. | ||
| The only thing about it that tempts me is I watch this stuff and I know it isn't as hard to do as they're making it. | ||
| It's not easy, but it's not as hard to do as they're making it. | ||
| Do you think the hardest part is just having the will to do it? | ||
| That which sort of gets back to what we were talking about with Trump before. | ||
| It's just like the will to say this is how we are going to do it. | ||
| And sticking with it and not paying attention to the know-it-alls. | ||
| They used to be just know-it-alls. | ||
| Now they're worse. | ||
| Now I think they're part of an ideology, almost part of a conspiracy. | ||
| The press, when you watch the way in which they censored, that was highly organized. | ||
| I don't know how close. | ||
| I used to notice this when I represented Trump in the impeachment proceedings. | ||
| Every day they leaked something. | ||
| You'd listen to the shows and they'd all say precisely the same words. | ||
| It was like they were reading from the same playlist that was put out by the The bureau, the Biden Bureau or the Democratic Bureau, you know, the report's been debunked. | ||
| The report's been debunked. | ||
| The report's been debunked. | ||
| Biden knew nothing about his son's foreign dealings. | ||
| Biden knew nothing about his son's foreign dealings. | ||
| Now it's become Biden wasn't in business with his son. | ||
| Well, the other line that Biden keeps saying, which I think shows like the craziest level of all of this, is when Biden has repeatedly said he's never discussed business with his son. | ||
| As a father, what an insane statement that he never discussed. | ||
| He had no idea what his son was doing for a living. | ||
| He had no freaking idea. | ||
| It's incredible. | ||
| Like, when you hear that, you must... Yeah, and there is, and when they really do that a lot, Ted and I, Ted works with me on America's Mayor Live. | ||
| We found this beautiful tape in which Joe calls up Hunter and leaves a text message. | ||
| And he explains to him that he just read the New York Times article. | ||
| Oh, and Biden says about Hunter's foreign dealings. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And don't worry, you're in the clear. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Which means he has just read all about the foreign dealings he knows nothing about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it does actually sound like something out of the mafia tapes when he says, and you're in the clear. | ||
| Who says you're in the clear? | ||
| And you know a little something about dealing with the Mafia guys. | ||
| I think I could take Fat Tony and put it next to him. | ||
| He probably said a few times, don't worry Rocko, you're in the clear. | ||
| Do you think back on fighting the Mafia guys before you were mayor? | ||
| In some ways it's like the good old days compared to the thing you're fighting now? | ||
| I'm going to tell you they were better fathers. | ||
| I believe that. | ||
| I believe that for sure. | ||
| I think Fat Tony would not have disowned his granddaughter. | ||
| He would have been ashamed of himself for doing that. | ||
| I mean, that was the coup de grace for me on Biden, who I knew for 35 years as just an amiable dope. | ||
| When I first found out he was a crook, I was really disappointed. | ||
| When I found out what a big crook he is, I was shocked and said, something has to be done. | ||
| You can't allow this in America or otherwise it's going to happen again. | ||
| And now when I see what a cruel man he is, This grandfather thing is so insane. | ||
| Well, it's the same narcissism that got him to take his delicate son. | ||
| He had two sons, right? | ||
| Obviously, it looks like Beau was the real thing. | ||
| Strong guy. | ||
| The other guy looks like he was wounded. | ||
| Addictive personality when he's 17. | ||
| You take that guy and you put him in business with the biggest criminals in the world to protect you, you just made him a degenerate drug addict. | ||
| He has no chance of overcoming drug addiction working with Whitey Bulge's nephew, Mykola Zoloshevsky, biggest crook in Ukraine. | ||
| The worst spy in China, the crooked mayor's wife, where they get $3.5 million in Turkey, the crook in Romania. | ||
| The guy is working with some of the worst people in the world, and he's got an affliction. | ||
| And if you love him, you go get him a job in a college. | ||
| Yeah, and he's selling art for $900,000 a pop. | ||
| Art that, of course, is the easiest way to money launder. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Subjective. | ||
| And you create those complications. | ||
| And if you listen to the tape recordings and look at the video messages and everything, you see a very troubled guy. | ||
| I mean, the most valuable tape is one that combines everything. | ||
| December of 2018, Tunter to his daughter, and he's warning his daughter about getting involved as a bag man. | ||
| And he says, I know they're trying to get you in, and you put up with them better than I do. | ||
| But for 30 years, I've been paying for all of the expenses of this family, and they still don't respect me. | ||
| And even with that, for 30 years, Pop has required me to give him half my income. | ||
| Now, you got two things there, right? | ||
| You got the bitterness, right? | ||
| But you just got the admission of a RICO case. | ||
| Why would any son give half his income for 30 years to his father, except it was his father's income? | ||
| Wouldn't they just have to look at Joe's tax returns at this point, how he became so rich? | ||
| How about the bank account? | ||
| He's never subpoenaed his bank account. | ||
| So the minute I see as a prosecutor, I paid for all the expenses of the family. | ||
| I go subpoena all the mortgages, I go subpoena all the credit cards, and I create a, I work with the honest IRS, and we create a big ledger of how much he paid for. | ||
| How much did Hunter pay for, for Joe? | ||
| And how does that equate with the bribe money he was getting? | ||
| And you have on one side of the ledger, the money's being paid for Hunter for no reason Having to do with Hunter, I mean, China didn't pay $31 million to a degenerate drug addict so he could buy coke. | ||
| They had another purpose. | ||
| And now you see the money flowing to him and you figure out the purpose. | ||
| And then with China, you can put down a list of all the favors that Joe did for China. | ||
| Gee, would somebody have done this? | ||
| Just for the heck of it, given up Bagram Air Base, 400 miles from China. | ||
| I don't think any patriotic American would have given up that airbase. | ||
| They'd have to have killed me to give up that airbase. | ||
| 400 miles from China, when we know that China may possibly go to war with us one day, and we're right on their back door and can bomb the living daylights out of them if we have to. | ||
| And we give it up. | ||
| Alright, we could clearly do that all day long. | ||
| But let's spend our last remaining time, I just want to talk about leadership. | ||
| Because, again, as you know, I was in New York during 9-11. | ||
| I was 21 years old. | ||
| It was formative for me. | ||
| It was formative for you. | ||
| But I remember being in that city and just watching you. | ||
| We've discussed this before. | ||
| But the only thing that felt sane, basically, was that you were out there and doing that. | ||
| And I think your career and fighting the mob before that, all that obviously led to it. | ||
| What level of, were you ready? | ||
| Like when you realized what was happening. | ||
| On September 11th? | ||
| Yeah, not ready for it, but did you feel, I'm supposed to be here right now and I'm supposed to do this? | ||
| The first reaction to how bad it was, originally I was told it was a twin engine plane that hit the North Tower and I rushed down there. | ||
| Second plane hit, I knew it was a terrorist attack. | ||
| And then I got right below the tower Rushing up to the fire department command post and I saw a man jump. | ||
| And that was like a change of everything. | ||
| I said to myself, oh my God, this is way above us. | ||
| And I grabbed Bernie Kerrick, my police commissioner, and I said, Bernie, this is way off the charts. | ||
| We don't have a plan for this. | ||
| We're just going to have to go with our instincts and pray to God we make the right decision. | ||
| Because we had like 27 plans. | ||
| For emergencies. | ||
| We were like obsessive on doing it because we had been bombed in 93. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And no one plan fit. | ||
| Airplanes being used as missiles. | ||
| But quickly I realized that from doing all those plans we were much better prepared than I thought. | ||
| And eventually I got to the point where I felt like By no means were we perfectly prepared. | ||
| By no means did we do it perfectly. | ||
| But it was good that we were the ones there because we probably knew it better than anybody else. | ||
| How aware were you that there were cameras with you and that you had to maintain a certain layer of confidence? | ||
| Because that's what it was for the city. | ||
| I just assumed. | ||
| I remember you going down the street, mobs of people around you, I remember Carrick there, and you were always focused and calm, there was no sense of like, oh, this guy doesn't know what he's doing, as we're literally thinking that there's more terrorists on the way. | ||
| 100% aware of that. | ||
| 100% aware of the fact that people were gonna watch me, and they were gonna react based on how I reacted, and when I would find out that a good friend of mine, or pretty close to a best friend of mine had just died, I would say to myself, I'm going to think about that tomorrow. | ||
| And I remember being told about Father Judge being dead, the first one. | ||
| And I could feel tears coming up. | ||
| And I said to myself, not today. | ||
| Not today. | ||
| Only break, and that was at the first or second press conference. | ||
| After we finished, one of the reporters, Marsha, asked me, Did you hear the tape of the woman on the plane going into the Pentagon talking to her husband about their slitting, people's slitting throats? | ||
| She was talking to the Solicitor General. | ||
| Oh, right, who was on the plane. | ||
| And I said, do you mean Ted Olsen's wife, Barbara? | ||
| She said, yes. | ||
| I said, oh. | ||
| And I went behind Pataki. | ||
| And I stopped. | ||
| I let him do the rest. | ||
| And a couple of tears came in my eyes. | ||
| I had just seen him three days before. | ||
| Ted was my close friend. | ||
| She was a close friend. | ||
| I was helping her promote a book about how terrible Hillary Clinton was. | ||
| And she had just been in New York for a bunch of interviews about the book which was a bestseller already. | ||
| And she was a quintessential Just a lively, happy, smart person. | ||
| And Ted was, of course, the guy who argued the Bush v. Gore case. | ||
| Just one of the great lawyers. | ||
| And he and I did the air traffic controllers together as lawyers. | ||
| We were partners for Ronald Reagan. | ||
| We did a whole bunch of things together and were very close friends socially and went to concerts together. | ||
| You know why that hit me worse? | ||
| It came out of nowhere. | ||
| When I heard Father Judge, I expected it. | ||
| I knew I was going to lose 30 friends. | ||
| I probably could have told you where in the building they were. | ||
| My assistant for 30 years lost her husband. | ||
| I conducted their wedding two years earlier. | ||
| And you probably knew dozens of the police officers, at least by face, because they loved you. | ||
| The head of search and rescue. | ||
| I had just given him a going away party at Gracie Mansion with him and 200 people, his family. | ||
| Got to know his whole family. | ||
| No, these were my special people. | ||
| I would go to their football games, their hockey games, try to get them out of trouble when they'd start fighting the police and the fire at the hockey games. | ||
| We all got tossed out of Madison Square Garden. | ||
| I mean, these are my guys, my people. | ||
| And I could see their cars when I was standing there, and I knew who they were based on their police car or fire car. | ||
| I knew they were in the building. | ||
| And I knew the kind of guys they were. | ||
| When we gave the order to evacuate, I knew they were going to say, We'll evacuate when the civilians are off the floor, because they were criticized for not responding immediately. | ||
| But it's such a naive thing to think of, right? | ||
| They're on a floor. | ||
| There are 100 people on the floor. | ||
| We say evacuate, and they run away? | ||
| I mean, what kind of firefighter is that? | ||
| My guys are going to wait until everybody's off the floor. | ||
| Those are the ones who survived, the ones who died. | ||
| They were remarkable people. | ||
| Remarkable people. | ||
| The level of courage, unmatched. | ||
| And somehow, even though it's a great tragedy, that feeling of courage elevates you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, that camaraderie that the city had after... It elevates you. | ||
| It makes you feel like there's a standard you have to reach. | ||
| And I guess that's another reason why I don't care what they do to me, as long as I help save my country. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| I mean, if I can get out what I know, about how they've corrupted this country, and it turns that around, it'll be worth whatever they do to me. | ||
| Mr. Mayor, I don't know that I could possibly end a show better than that, and as my last thing before I go off the grid, what a pleasure to be with you as always, and I thank you for your time. | ||
| Well, for me too. | ||
| You're terrific. | ||
| I listen to you all the time. | ||
| Well, listen, stay in Florida. | ||
| I'm thinking about it! | ||
| I'll work on you in the cap and trough. | ||
| I'm thinking about it. | ||
| It's good to see you, my friend. |
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