May 7, 2023 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
26:10
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I think we, as I was saying a few minutes ago, I think we have to go on offense. | ||
| So often Republicans are so afraid to lean in and take the offensive position. | ||
| And we sort of apologize many times for being conservative. | ||
| And we shouldn't allow the left to, one, define us or demonize us. | ||
| And we have allowed that for far too long. | ||
| We have to stand up and start pushing back. | ||
| I'm Dave Rubin and joining me today is the 47th governor of the great state of Arkansas, | ||
| Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders. | ||
| Welcome to The Rubin Report. | ||
| Thank you so much for having me. | ||
| It's great to finally get to connect and be part of your show. | ||
| Yeah, thanks, Governor. | ||
| You know, we've bumped into each other a couple times since you've been governor, before you were governor, when you were press secretary, I think even before that, but finally making this happen. | ||
| So we've got about a half hour. | ||
| I kind of want to talk about everything. | ||
| Can you give everybody just like the, maybe the minute bio before all of politics, and then we'll go from there. | ||
| Well, I've been in politics for a long time, so my bio before that isn't super long. | ||
| But, you know, I've spent a lot more time behind the scenes than I ever did in front of the camera. | ||
| And so I was a political strategist and operative, ran campaigns all over the country, sort of | ||
| accidentally became the press secretary for Donald Trump. | ||
| Amazing job, great opportunity. | ||
| Loved my two and a half years there. | ||
| Grew up with a dad who was obviously very involved in politics, still one of the longest | ||
| serving governors of the state, and loved being able to watch what he was able to accomplish, | ||
| the way he was able to impact direct change on people's lives. | ||
| Didn't necessarily see myself running for office until not too long ago, but really wanted to continue in public service after my time at the White House. | ||
| Moved back home to Arkansas and hit the ground running, ran for governor, and spent two years on the campaign trail, won in November, and we haven't slowed down since, and it's been Probably the most amazing and difficult but also rewarding job I think I could possibly have. | ||
| Yeah, and you guys are getting a ton of stuff done that I want to focus on for most of this. | ||
| Your dad, obviously, being Mike Huckabee. | ||
| But let's talk about the press secretary part under Trump for just a couple minutes, because I think that's where probably most people originally know you from. | ||
| You did that for a while. | ||
| It was obviously crazy, because the media's coming after you guys, you know, like gangbusters. | ||
| You got out before COVID. | ||
| So your timing, how do you feel about your timing of that whole situation? | ||
| You know, I got pretty lucky on the timing, but not to say we didn't have our fair share of controversy during my two and a half years when I was the press secretary, but it's probably the most difficult high-stakes jobs in all of government, but it's also one of the most amazing opportunities. | ||
| I was honored that the president was willing to take a chance on me, and even on the worst days, I really loved every minute of the job. | ||
| I got to work with some of the most amazing people I've ever encountered, and I'm thankful for the time I got to spend there. | ||
| When you watch—if you watch any of these press conferences now, first with Saki and now with Jean-Corinne Pierre, and the difference in tenor and tone of the questions they get—and, you know, my line on Saki was, the woman simply cannot say anything true. | ||
| If you asked her her favorite number, she would say blue. | ||
| And Corinne Jean-Pierre seems like an even almost exaggerated version of that. | ||
| Are you jealous in a way, or can you even believe that it's the same room that you guys were just getting grilled on relentlessly? | ||
| You know, it's hard to believe that it is the same place, because when we would walk into the room, you could feel, like, the visceral anger a lot of times coming off of the crowd. | ||
| And what a lot of people don't know is that that room is actually really small. | ||
| And they pack, you know, 100, 150 people into this tiny space just so they can, you know, yell angry questions at you. | ||
| And it is a totally, completely different atmosphere in this administration. | ||
| You know, I wish we got some of the easy questions that they got. | ||
| At the same time, I sort of feel sorry for them because we actually had a good story to tell. | ||
| We had so many successes in the Trump presidency and during that time that I had good things to go out and sell and talk to the American people about. | ||
| They certainly don't have that under Joe Biden. | ||
| Everything they seem to touch, they screw up. | ||
| And so they have a much, much harder job than I did because at least we had good things to talk about. | ||
| How complex does it make it that the federal government is screwing up so many things like do you feel like you can accomplish most of the things you want to accomplish as governor or obviously you can't control everything related to the value of the dollar and supply chain things like that? | ||
| You know, there are certainly things that they're doing that we can't fix and can't do a lot about, but there are so many places where we have the ability to directly impact our states. | ||
| And you're seeing a lot of Republican governors step up and push back against the crazy stuff coming out of Washington and the overreach of the federal government. | ||
| And frankly, take matters into our own hands. | ||
| They're not going to secure the border. | ||
| We're going to crack down on drugs and things coming across the border in our states, making sure that we're doing what we can where the federal government is dropping the ball. | ||
| We focused heavily on education, criminal justice reform, tax cuts, so that we are helping the people in our states, because we know we can't count on anything meaningful coming out of Washington. | ||
| Yeah, you know, I've asked this to a couple governors, red state governors, like, do you feel that there is an alliance of red states right now that basically is coming together to solve some of the things simply that the federal government will not do? | ||
| I saw you last time, I think maybe two or three months ago at a Florida blueprint event. | ||
| There were a bunch of other red state governors there and it seemed like, all right, if Biden won't do it, we're going to have to do this stuff. | ||
| I mean, Arkansas isn't supposed to have to deal with the border. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I think there's such a greater sense of camaraderie among Republican governors. | ||
| We're not in direct competition with each other. | ||
| There's a great sense of shared best practices. | ||
| If I can do something here and implement a program that really works, Let me share that with other states and vice versa. | ||
| There are other things we've seen states do and do really well and want to replicate that here. | ||
| And other Republican governors have been very willing to help and work together. | ||
| And when you have that kind of coalition of conservative governors, it gives us a lot more strength to push back on the federal government. | ||
| What should we know about Arkansas that we don't know? | ||
| I mean, the country doesn't talk about Arkansas that much. | ||
| We know Bill Clinton came from Arkansas. | ||
| We know your dad came from Arkansas. | ||
| We know you're down in Arkansas. | ||
| But it's not talked about, say, in the way that California or Florida might be these days. | ||
| We're glad never to be talked about the way that California is, to be clear, Dave. | ||
| So we don't want to be on the same page as them. | ||
| In fact, Arkansas is one of the states that people from California are moving to One of the largest numbers of people that are coming into our state. | ||
| I think we're the seventh largest influx of people from California over the last year. | ||
| Nearly 10,000 people have left there to come to Arkansas. | ||
| We have an amazing story to tell. | ||
| I say all the time that I'm the chief salesperson for Arkansas. | ||
| We have some of the most beautiful landscape anywhere in the country. | ||
| Great quality of life. | ||
| We're making significant changes and progress. | ||
| When it comes to a strong education system, we're one of the first states that will have universal school choice over the next couple of years as we phase that in based on legislation that we passed here just in the last couple of months. | ||
| We are looking at all the things that we can do to make Arkansas the best place to live, to work, and to raise a family, and I think we've made significant progress on that front in just the last 100 days. | ||
| I also would tell people, please don't judge us by Bill Clinton. | ||
| We have a lot better things coming out of Arkansas than that. | ||
| How do you make sure that that influx of new people votes the right way and makes sure that they don't import, obviously, the stuff that they were fleeing in Cali? | ||
| We tell them all the time. | ||
| Every place I went when I was campaigning across Arkansas, I went to all 75 counties in our state and held events. | ||
| And in almost every single place we went, we would meet people that came from other places, largely California, Oregon, Washington. | ||
| I would always remind them, don't forget why you left those places and came here. | ||
| Don't try to change us. | ||
| Just enjoy the Southern hospitality. | ||
| Most of those people were so happy to get away from the craziness coming from the coast that they're embracing all things Arkansas all the time here. | ||
| So you mentioned the school choice thing. | ||
| That was one of the things I really want to focus with you on, because I do think it's the future of education in America. | ||
| You guys were one of, I think, the first four or five states to go with school choice. | ||
| What was your calculation there? | ||
| I mean, were Arkansas schools being woke-ified the way that we see so many other states? | ||
| That seems odd that it would be happening in Arkansas, but that obviously was at least part of it, right? | ||
| There's certainly pieces of that, and our goal is to make sure that the crazy wokeness never sees the light of day here. | ||
| I'm not saying we don't have instances. | ||
| We certainly do, but that's not necessarily the norm. | ||
| But we want to make sure it doesn't become that way. | ||
| We also know that what works In Iowa and Montana and Texas may not be what works here. | ||
| And the same thing just within our small state. | ||
| What works in one corner of the state may not work in another. | ||
| So we want to provide flexibility so that students are getting the education that they need and frankly the education that they deserve. | ||
| We want to empower parents to make the best decisions possible about what and how their kids can best be educated. | ||
| So we're putting the power back into the hands of parents. | ||
| Instead of the other way. | ||
| I say all the time, it's very simple. | ||
| When people ask me, what's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? | ||
| To me, it's very easy. | ||
| If you want somebody to make decisions for you and you want that to be the government, then you're a Democrat. | ||
| If you want to empower individuals and you want to make your own decisions, then you're a Republican. | ||
| And that's exactly what we're doing. | ||
| We're putting power back into the hands of the people instead of letting the government dictate the rules of the game. | ||
| Can you explain how that philosophy actually is reflective of school choice? | ||
| Because to me, school choice is such a winning argument for Republicans for the reasons that you just laid out. | ||
| But can you actually talk about, like, what it actually means? | ||
| OK, you have school choice. | ||
| Like, what does that actually mean? | ||
| I think there's a couple of things. | ||
| For us, it means that you can choose whether it's another public school somewhere in your area or around the state. | ||
| If it's a private school, if it's home school, if it's a parochial school, if it's charter school, you get to decide what is the best place that my child can go and get the education that best fits their needs. | ||
| I'm a mom, I have three kids, and I can tell you all three of my kids are completely different and they need different things. | ||
| So allowing me the opportunity to tailor their education to fit what is best going to put them on the path to success is what we're trying to implement here. | ||
| So the funding that we give for each student will actually follow the student, whether that is, again, a homeschool or a charter school, another public school or a private school, the parent has the power to decide. | ||
| What would you say to the people on the other side of the argument who would say, well, in essence, this will just sort of disassemble public school teaching and there won't be kind of any standards anymore and everyone will be learning different things? | ||
| Well, we still have a state standard that you have to meet for a private school. | ||
| You get to opt into this program, so it's not forced. | ||
| However, I think the question isn't, how does this impact public schools? | ||
| I think the question would be, why are people leaving in the first place? | ||
| It's because you're not meeting the needs of the students. | ||
| And so, I think that Republicans have so often been on the defensive side of this, and we've got to flip the script. | ||
| We've got to go on offense. | ||
| We have the moral high ground here. | ||
| We are trying to make sure that every student, no matter what their income, what their background, race, color, creed, is getting the best education possible, and we're putting that power into the hands of parents, and we're putting kids onto a pathway of success instead of condemning them to a lifetime of poverty, which is what the other side wants to see happen. | ||
| What kind of pushback did you get on that? | ||
| I mean, I'm guessing the Teachers Union and Randy Weingarten, all them, they probably put in a ton of money to stop this thing, but it happened. | ||
| You know, I spent two years on the campaign trail here in Arkansas talking about what we were going to do in terms of education reform. | ||
| I made no secret that it was my number one priority, and I won with a historic margin for a first-time candidate here in the state, and felt like that was because my message was resonating. | ||
| And that was the people overwhelmingly coming out and saying that this was what they wanted to see, and there was tremendous support. | ||
| And so we went out and we acted on it. | ||
| Could not have done it without amazing partners in our legislature. | ||
| Certainly there were some people that pushed back, but as my dad likes to say, just because some people eat their soup louder doesn't mean it tastes better. | ||
| Just because there are a handful of people that are yelling and screaming, one, doesn't mean they're right, and two, doesn't mean that they speak for the masses, because that's certainly not the case here in Arkansas. | ||
| Do you think the Republicans have had a branding problem over the last couple years? | ||
| You know, if you look at the midterms, everyone said it was going to be a red wave. | ||
| It obviously didn't turn out to be. | ||
| And it seemed that people were sort of fed up with the Democrats, but they still didn't want to vote Republican to some degree, at least at a national level, even though the Republicans got the House. | ||
| But there clearly wasn't a wave. | ||
| Is there something that can be done on that, if you agree with me? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I think we, as I was saying a few minutes ago, I think we have to go on offense. | ||
| So often, Republicans are so afraid to lean in and take the offensive position, and we sort of apologize many times for being conservative. | ||
| And we shouldn't allow the left to, one, define us or demonize us, and we have allowed that for far too long. | ||
| We have to stand up and start pushing back. | ||
| Whether people like him or not, one of the things that Donald Trump did so successfully was he gave Republicans and conservatives a microphone and a platform to start pushing back and say, whoa, we're not the bad guys here. | ||
| We're not on the side of crazy. | ||
| That's the other side. | ||
| And what they're selling is frankly just not true. | ||
| He challenged every major institution in the country, whether it was the media, Big Tech, higher ed, and started pushing back and we're seeing a lot more Republicans start to do that and I think when we do and we go on offense, we win. | ||
| To that point, you actually gave the Republican response to the State of the Union, and I thought it was really excellent. | ||
| I thought it was a positive vision, the type of thing that—well, it's really what you're saying right there. | ||
| There was sort of like, we need to use government effectively when we can. | ||
| But that doesn't seem to me to be where all Republicans are at. | ||
| At the moment. | ||
| You know, if you listen to Mike Pence or Chris Christie on some of the stuff with DeSantis in Florida, that suddenly government shouldn't do anything even when it's to level the playing field. | ||
| So there's still work that has to be done there. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I think there's still work. | ||
| I think your opinion, though, is the right one, that my message is the good one here. | ||
| No, I'm just kidding. | ||
| I like your take. | ||
| I think we should wrap here that you said I did a great job and I had the right messaging. | ||
| Only kidding. | ||
| I do think we have to draw very clear contrasts with the other side, but we don't have to do it in a way that is so negative. | ||
| I'm not a glass-is-half-empty type of person, and so I want to see the best in people. | ||
| And I still think, regardless of some of the bad things that are happening around our country, that America is still the greatest country that the world has ever known, and we shouldn't forget that. | ||
| We have to lean into that message while at the same time drawing a contrast with the other side. | ||
| That's not negative. | ||
| That's simply defining who they are versus what we believe in and I think we have to do that in order to be effective. | ||
| So, one of the things I'm always trying to do here, and it's getting harder and harder, is I really am trying to sit down with Democrats when possible. | ||
| We're getting pretty much no responses these days. | ||
| We just get ignored. | ||
| But I'm going to guess, maybe I'm wrong, that a Democrat in Arkansas is probably not as radical as what we're seeing out of most of the Democrats in mainstream media or out of D.C. | ||
| Is that fair to say? | ||
| Certainly we've got a few that are a little bit on the very far left end. | ||
| However, we had some great partnership with Democrat legislators here where we were able to work together on a few pieces of legislation over this first session and had great success. | ||
| So certainly I think there's a greater sense of cooperation and collaboration on the state level than you're going to find in Washington. | ||
| Washington has gotten so Do you miss anything about the D.C. | ||
| situation? | ||
| completely paralyzed. | ||
| And it's hard to expect or see anything meaningful coming from there. | ||
| But I think on the state level, you'll find that there are some moments | ||
| where Democrats and Republicans can work together. | ||
| Do you miss anything about the DC situation? | ||
| And just the, there's a certain amount of energy that comes with it, either good or bad or both. | ||
| I definitely miss the people. | ||
| I got to work with, like I said, some of the most amazing, talented individuals I've ever encountered, and I loved my time there. | ||
| I loved the people that I got to be in the trenches with, and so I certainly miss that aspect of it. | ||
| I don't miss the nastiness and the craziness of the Washington press corps, though. | ||
| I'm happy to be away from that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What else is going on in Arkansas that you're pushing, trying to lead on, that we should know about? | ||
| You know, some of the biggest things that we have really spent our time on, we went into this first session with four big priorities. | ||
| Education being first and foremost and past what we think is the most comprehensive historic education package. | ||
| Certainly in the state of Arkansas, but probably across the country. | ||
| We spent a lot of time on workforce development, early childhood literacy, things that really lay a foundation for an individual's lifetime of success. | ||
| We've cracked down on Violent repeat offenders, that was our second big priority, was a safer, stronger Arkansas. | ||
| We passed legislation that actually put harsh penalties on drug dealers, specifically those trafficking heroin that cause overdoses, creating truth in sentencing. | ||
| So if somebody gets sentenced to 20 years, we're actually going to make you serve 20 years Which, unfortunately, was not the case here and not the case in a lot of places across the state of Arkansas. | ||
| Our third big priority was cutting the state income tax. | ||
| We've got Texas and Tennessee on each side of us who have no state income tax. | ||
| In order for us to continue to be competitive, we had to work to start chipping away at Arkansas' income tax. | ||
| And we made significant progress on that front and very proud that we were able to pass education and criminal justice reform at the same time. | ||
| passing savings back onto the taxpayers. The last thing we wanted to do was really promote | ||
| the natural state. That's the nickname and the motto for the state of Arkansas because we have | ||
| an absolutely beautiful landscape and want to go out and promote Arkansas's outdoor economy and | ||
| really bring people into our state to enjoy the incredible natural amenities that we have here. | ||
| And so those were the four big key areas that we focused on, got something accomplished in all four | ||
| of those and made what we think is just an incredibly successful first session. | ||
| The other area that, unfortunately, we had to spend a lot of time on over the last several weeks, Arkansas was hit by devastating tornadoes that came through our state, hit directly here in central Arkansas, as well as a small-town wind over in the eastern part of our state, and we've been in the recovery and rebuilding process of that. | ||
| We have a long road to go, but very proud of the way that Arkansans have stepped up and really taken care of each other over the last several weeks. | ||
| Are you getting the help from FEMA that you need or at least that you requested? | ||
| Oh, we actually have. | ||
| I have to say this is one of the few areas where the federal government has really stepped up and we're very appreciative of their willingness to help and how quick they have been to respond in providing assistance that we've requested. | ||
| Let's back up to the tax one. | ||
| You said cutting state tax, obviously, because you've got, you know, no-tax, no-income-tax states on your borders. | ||
| You know, I was in Cali, and now I'm in Florida, and I did not move here for the no-tax situation, but it has been quite nice. | ||
| I mean, how does that work when you go in and try to cut that tax when you are a state that has taxes? | ||
| Like, nobody that is working for the state is happy with you. | ||
| They want to keep their jobs, but it obviously is going to help you build the economy. | ||
| Well, we have to look at ways that we can make government more efficient and modernize government. | ||
| And there are a lot of places where we have, you know, duplicate programs, and we have to eliminate some of that waste. | ||
| And when we do actually pass it on to the taxpayer, so often even conservative Republicans will eliminate government waste, but then they just add it into another program. | ||
| We're trying to make sure that we actually pass that savings on in the form of tax cuts. | ||
| We were successful in doing that this session, and I'm hopeful that we can continue on that trajectory and keep chipping away at our state's income tax until we're able to completely phase it out. | ||
| It's not going to happen overnight, and we want to be responsible in the process, but it's a goal I think we have to work towards. | ||
| Are you telling me you could cut taxes and your roads won't automatically collapse and you'll still be able to pay for school and other stuff? | ||
| Because that's wild. | ||
| Yeah, not only were we able to pay for schools, but we were able to make the largest investment into our schools, our public schools, and education reform in the history of our state, in modern history that is. | ||
| And so very proud of the fact that we were able to get those things accomplished and still cut taxes here in the state. | ||
| On the criminal justice stuff that you mentioned, and the sentencing, things of that nature, do you get pushback on those things? | ||
| I would imagine in a mostly red state, people are kind of on board that, right? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| We've seen overwhelming support for people coming out. | ||
| Nobody wants to live in a community that isn't safe, and so locking up violent repeat offenders is rarely going to be something that is pushed back against, unless you're part of the crazy radical left. | ||
| Then you think it's a great idea to let those people back out onto the streets, but here in Arkansas that's certainly not the case. | ||
| Right. | ||
| This is a bit of a non sequitur, but does Bill ever come back down there? | ||
| Is he welcomed in Arkansas at this point? | ||
| You know, he's still fairly well-liked here in Arkansas. | ||
| The Clinton Presidential Library is based in our capital city in Little Rock, and he comes back from time to time for that. | ||
| And, you know, we see him here very Occasionally. | ||
| Hillary, on the other hand, not quite so welcome back in Arkansas. | ||
| I think a lot of people feel like she abandoned the state. | ||
| And most people, I think, are pretty okay with that. | ||
| I would say Bill Clinton, though, is still fairly well liked and well remembered here in the state of Arkansas. | ||
| So I have to say, as we wrap up, Governor, when I was watching the rebuttal, I really was thinking, man, she should be running. | ||
| I know you've got a new gig here, but we are rolling into a big 2024 thing. | ||
| The fighting has already begun. | ||
| It's already starting to get nutty. | ||
| Do you have any of those aspirations? | ||
| Obviously, your dad ran for president twice, if I'm not mistaken, right? | ||
| And then the first time, pretty close. | ||
| Does any of that appeal to you in any way whatsoever? | ||
| I've done my time in Washington. | ||
| Very happy to be back home in Arkansas where life is a little easier and certainly the people are much friendlier. | ||
| So very happy to be home and I'll leave the fighting and the 2024 and all that craziness to the other folks out there. | ||
| I'm going to keep my focus here on our state and how we can really impact change and help the people of Arkansas. | ||
| Final sales pitch for the people that are considering moving or taking vacation coming up. | ||
| Why should they go to Arkansas? | ||
| You'll find no better place than the state of Arkansas to either live or to visit. | ||
| Certainly, we would love you to live here. | ||
| I've heard they've got an amazing governor there. | ||
| If you don't believe me, you should come try it yourself. | ||
| We have a really special place, amazing people, beautiful scenery, and we hope that people will come here and visit and decide that they want to stay and live here, too. | ||
| Well, Governor, I have only been to Arkansas once, believe it or not. | ||
| I did one night there while on tour about five years ago, so I owe a trip, and I hope to get to see you in person. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| We'd be happy to host you anytime. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders, thanks so much. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics, instead of mindless dribble, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist, all right over here. |
Export Selection