June 5, 2022 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
21:56
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| The reason the Truth or Votes research, I think, is so powerful here is they set such a high bar. | ||
| Ten or more drop boxes. | ||
| Because, see, let's say that they had set a bar of two drop boxes. | ||
| Now, nobody has a reason to go to two. | ||
| Even if you have your family member's ballots, you're going to go put them in one drop box. | ||
| But some guy was gonna come forward and say, well, you know what, I put my ballots in the first box, I had to tie my shoe at the second box, so you're calling me a mule, I'm not a mule. | ||
| So instead of all this nonsense, set a bar of 10 or more drop boxes. | ||
| Let's remember that these aren't, this isn't the post office, this isn't where you go to drop your bills off. | ||
| These are only for ballots. | ||
| There's no other reason to go to these drop boxes other than to dump ballots. | ||
| And why would you go to 10 or more drop boxes unless you were stuffing them with ballots? | ||
| I'm Dave Rubin and joining me today is an author, podcast host and creator of the new film 2000 Mules, | ||
| which is out right now. | ||
| Welcome back to The Rubin Report. | ||
| Dave, it's a real pleasure. | ||
| Thanks for having me back. | ||
| I'm looking forward to it. | ||
| It's been a couple years since we've chatted on camera, my friend, but I feel that we have to give a warning right up top here. | ||
| There is a good chance that my channel will be blown up on YouTube because of this. | ||
| But I did create Locals. | ||
| You launched 2,000 mules on Locals, which I obviously want to get into. | ||
| And I'm honored that you did that. | ||
| And anything that we cannot put on YouTube for this interview, we will put up. | ||
| Well, I'll just say it. | ||
| We'll put it up on both our channels. | ||
| Fair enough? | ||
| I mean, Dave, what a surreal time we live in. | ||
| I don't think you and I would have predicted a decade ago that we would find that these basic liberties, which are supposed to be outside the bounds of politics, free speech rights, for example, would somehow be abridged in this way and we'd have to watch what we say and figure out, should I put this up? | ||
| I have exactly the same issue with my daily podcast. | ||
| And with this movie, you know, I couldn't put the trailer up on YouTube, I couldn't buy ads on Facebook, so I had to develop an entirely different business plan for releasing this movie as compared to any of my earlier ones. | ||
| So let's get into that business plan in just a moment. | ||
| But first, let's focus on the movie itself. | ||
| I was at the... I suppose it was the pre-premiere of the movie, which was at Mar-a-Lago, and it was sort of a who's who of, let's say, right-wing media or whatever you want to call All of us at this point. | ||
| And I got to see the movie. | ||
| I thought it was excellent. | ||
| Many people on my book tour. | ||
| One of the questions that I got more than anything else over the last couple weeks was, what did you think of the movie? | ||
| And I recommended that everyone see it, make some judgments for themselves. | ||
| What was the initial starting point of when you, did you want to immediately ask questions like the night of the election or was it a couple weeks later? | ||
| What was sort of the genesis of the whole idea? | ||
| Well, like a lot of people, I noticed the anomalies of 2020 and they struck me as really strange. | ||
| But once Biden was inaugurated and then, of course, a curtain of censorship descends on this topic, I thought, man, you know, we probably will never find out what really happened in the 2020 election. | ||
| With each passing day, the event becomes more remote. | ||
| And I was dissatisfied with the rhetoric a little bit on both sides. | ||
| Now, you know, start with the left, the most secure election in history. | ||
| And I thought to myself, even before I started anything with 2,000 mules, well, how could you possibly know that? | ||
| And they'd be like, well, Dinesh, where's your proof of fraud? | ||
| And I'm like, well, let's say I had none. | ||
| I have no proof. | ||
| Does it make it the most secure election of all time? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| These are still separate things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You haven't done an actual comparison of the amount of fraud in the last seven elections, for example, to show me that it was the least in 2020. | ||
| And yet that became the mantra. | ||
| Now, on the conservative side, as you know, a lot of flying theories going about anomalies I mean, look at this dead guy who voted over here. | ||
| Look at that guy was stuffing ballots over there. | ||
| But of course, the courts in these situations Use the principle that can be called the but-for principle. | ||
| But for the fraud, would the election have come out differently? | ||
| And that's a pretty high bar. | ||
| You have to show a magnitude of fraud. | ||
| And that was, I had never felt was really done. | ||
| Never shown, never proven. | ||
| And so again, I thought, let's move on. | ||
| This is something that we might never know. | ||
| So it wasn't until I sat down with the two principals of the organization called True the Vote, that I realized that they had sort of approached the election like a cold case, like cold case files. | ||
| And they figured out, you know, there actually is a way to go back and track the movements of these so-called mules. | ||
| And there is a way also to look through surveillance video and, in a sense, take us back to the days before and during the 2020 election to actually see what happened with your own two eyes. | ||
| Okay, so before we get into some of the specifics of how they used geotagging and how they were actually tracking these mules, and I want you to actually define what a mule is, which you do in the movie, obviously, how do you, as a filmmaker, because you've obviously made a bunch of documentaries before, how do you make sure that your own personal opinions don't override the truth, because to me, that's got to be the hardest part. | ||
| I think there are moments in the movie where you sort of address that a little bit, but to remove all of your bias for all of us is almost completely impossible. | ||
| It is impossible. | ||
| And I would argue that in terms of attaining that kind of pure objectivity, that's never going to happen. | ||
| I mean, that doesn't occur at all. | ||
| But what you can do is try to have that sort of Empathetic ability, and it's a debating ability, by the way, to always see the strength of the counter argument of the other guy's point of view and import that into the film. | ||
| Also, one of my techniques here was, I recognize that among the kind of Salem podcast hosts, I'm thinking of people like Eric Metaxas and Larry Elder, there were a mix of views about the election. | ||
| Some of them, it was stolen for sure. | ||
| Some of them, nah, I haven't seen any proof of it. | ||
| And I had the idea of importing them into the movie, having their initial thoughts, then showing them the evidence, and literally spontaneously filming their reaction, and then asking them for their assessments. | ||
| I thought in this way it goes beyond just sort of Dinesh's singular interpretation, and it becomes a conversation about the issue, in which it's possible that somebody watching the movie would go, you know, I see stronger ground in what Larry Elder is saying than anything Dinesh might have said. | ||
| So by doing it that way, it does what a good movie does, which is it lays out a narrative with a range of positions and a range of possible interpretations. | ||
| It was interesting, so you use this round table of the Salem hosts, so it's you, and Dennis Prager, and Larry Elder, and Eric Metaxas, and Charlie Kirk, am I forgetting anyone? | ||
| Oh, and Seb Gorka. | ||
| And Gorka, that's the gang. | ||
| And you guys sort of spurt, you know, you guys come and go throughout the movie discussing what's going on, and it's interesting because Dennis, I think, comes off as the most skeptical at the beginning, he kind of comes around a little bit more, but everyone's asking questions Thank you. | ||
| I mean, in some ways, that's the best part, where Dennis will say, for example, hey, listen, you know, you have a mule, you're showing this guy stuffing ballots. | ||
| What if you run up to him right now and grab his ballots and look at them? | ||
| What would you see on the ballot? | ||
| I mean, what's cool about it to me is I thought to myself, those are the kinds of questions that people in the audience are going to be asking. | ||
| So by putting them right in the movie, the movie doesn't have to come back and answer those questions because they are anticipated and addressed and at least discussed in the film itself. | ||
| Okay, so for the people that have not seen it yet, without blowing anything major, can you at least, can you give the kind of elevator pitch on the methodology that you guys were looking at related to people's smartphones, and where they were going, and just the basic idea of what 2000 Mules is? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| The film, drawing on the work of this group called True the Vote, a kind of election intelligence group, if you will, uses two independent modes of investigation, or two modes of argument. | ||
| The first one is cell phone geotracking. | ||
| And that arises out of the simple point that we're at a stage of technology now and perhaps also a stage where we have relinquished our privacy to a point now where our movements can be tracked. | ||
| They're tracked not because of cell phone towers that are pinging. | ||
| It's because of apps inside our phone that allow so-called aggregators to collect this data. | ||
| And by the way, it's sold on the open market. | ||
| Commercial companies can buy it. | ||
| It's also very valuable to law enforcement, intelligence agencies. | ||
| But essentially, if I was being geotracked right now, you could tell for sure. | ||
| I woke up in my bedroom, in my house. | ||
| I then went to a coffee shop. | ||
| Then I went to the studio to record my podcast. | ||
| Then I had lunch with a friend at this restaurant. | ||
| Then I came home and all of that is shown, not by a single snapshot of my phone, but by what's called a pattern of life. | ||
| You're showing the movement of my cell phone. | ||
| Now, obviously, if I gave my cell phone to my wife, Debbie, it would show her movements, but that the cell phone is making these movements and going to these locations is really not open to doubt. | ||
| And so what True The Vote did is they used the cell phone geotracking used in many other areas. | ||
| Their kind of genius idea was let's apply that to ballot trafficking. | ||
| And what we're looking for are these mules. | ||
| Now, what's a mule? | ||
| Basically, a paid operative who is handed ballots and asked to drop them off, to deliver them to mail-in drop boxes. | ||
| And we've been able to identify, based on a criterion, actually a very high criterion, mules going to 10 or more drop boxes. | ||
| Some 2,000 mules. | ||
| And that's where the title of the movie comes from. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So you believe that there are way more than 2,000 meals, but you were just focusing on this group that had this very sort of high threshold. | ||
| And as you show in the movie, I mean, a lot of these people that were repeatedly going to these Dropboxes, they, I mean, they look like transients or almost homeless people. | ||
| A lot of them, they're showing up at 4 a.m. | ||
| and 7 a.m. | ||
| They kind of look disheveled. | ||
| In other words, they don't look like sort of the upstanding citizen that's doing their due service for the country because they've collected some ballots for, you know, some people that can't, you know, drop the ballots off themselves. | ||
| It doesn't come off exactly like that. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Now, in the five states that we look at, which is Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, You don't have the kind of liberal vote harvesting where you can give your ballot to anyone and have them drop it off. | ||
| That is the case, by the way, in California. | ||
| But even in California, you can't pay people to deliver ballots. | ||
| I can't say to my neighbor, go drop off my ballot and here's 50 bucks. | ||
| Because the moment money comes in, there's bribery. | ||
| Essentially, the vote is contaminated. | ||
| And even a legal vote becomes illegal when money changes hands. | ||
| Now, in places like Georgia and Arizona, you can only give your ballot to an immediate family member, or if you're confined, To a caregiver, that's it. | ||
| And I think you can see this is the power of the video. | ||
| The second line of evidence in the movie is you begin to see not just cell phone devices moving from one Dropbox to another, but you actually get to see the mules. | ||
| And I think it's very telling because when you see a guy jump out of a car, it's three in the morning, he looks left and right, makes sure no one's looking at him. | ||
| It has all the hallmarks to any observer that this is an illicit and nefarious operation being conducted under cover of night. | ||
| Okay, so even for someone that hasn't seen the movie yet, they're hearing you, they're going, okay, so let's get this straight. | ||
| These guys have the phones, we're tracking these people, they're showing up repeatedly, they look kind of shady, you've got video. | ||
| Now, some of them are wearing masks, because it was also during COVID or they were disguising themselves, but a bunch of them, you can see their faces. | ||
| So clearly we can figure out who these people are. | ||
| So what kind of work have you done or is ongoing to figure out who they are? | ||
| And I guess the real question is who paid them? | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, when you see these mules operating, you see that they stop at organizations, and that's where they get the ballots. | ||
| So, the mules don't come up with their own ballots. | ||
| They go to what we call vote stash houses. | ||
| And what are they? | ||
| Well, they turn out to be kind of far-left organizations deeply embedded in the inner city, places like Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit, and so on. | ||
| So they go to these places, they get the ballots, and then they- Wait, to be clear though, because you actually show the map in the movie, you show them actually going to these places before they're doing the drop-off, actually. | ||
| Yeah, not only that, but once they go to three or four Dropboxes, they need to get more ballots. | ||
| So they go right back to the organization, sort of replenish, and then they continue. | ||
| Now, it's important to say why they do this, because you'd think, wait a minute, if a mule is dumping 300 ballots, why don't you go to one Dropbox and just unload them? | ||
| Save yourself a whole bunch of trouble. | ||
| Well, the reason is that the next morning, the election officials open these Dropboxes, and let's say the typical Dropbox has like 80 ballots, and then this one Dropbox has like 700 ballots. | ||
| You'd know right away something is up. | ||
| So the mules are instructed not to do that. | ||
| They drop five ballots here, eight ballots there. | ||
| That's why they go on these routes, and that, of course, makes them easier to track. | ||
| The reason that True the Vote's research, I think, is so powerful here is they set such a high bar. | ||
| Ten or more drop boxes. | ||
| Because, see, let's say that they had set a bar of two drop boxes. | ||
| Now, nobody has a reason to go to two. | ||
| Even if you have your family member's ballots, you're going to go put them in one drop box. | ||
| But some guy was going to come forward and say, well, you know what? | ||
| I put my ballots in the first box. | ||
| I had to tie my shoe at the second box. | ||
| So you're calling me a mule. | ||
| I'm not a mule. | ||
| So instead of all this nonsense, set a bar of 10 or more drop boxes. | ||
| Let's remember that these aren't, this isn't the post office. | ||
| This isn't where you go to drop your bills off. | ||
| These are only for ballots. | ||
| There's no other reason to go to these drop boxes other than to dump ballots. | ||
| And why would you go to 10 or more Dropboxes unless you were stuffing them with ballots? | ||
| So that's the sort of technological reasoning behind the power of the geotracking evidence. | ||
| Now I wish we had more video, but Truth or Vote does have 4 million minutes of video. | ||
| So they have a lot, but unfortunately a lot of Dropboxes don't have video. | ||
| Right, so are they going through more video now? | ||
| Because there is, you have some people, you have their faces. | ||
| I mean, have they been doing any work to track these people? | ||
| Do you know where any of these people are? | ||
| I mean, again, a lot of them sort of seem like transients or just probably unidentifiable for one reason or another, but there's got to be some way to get some of them, right? | ||
| Well, here's the key point. | ||
| I mean, obviously, you're right. | ||
| Some of these mules are visible. | ||
| You can see their face, and they can be recognized that way. | ||
| But the more important thing is that Truth-O-Vote has the cell phone IDs of all the mules, all the 2,000 mules. | ||
| So when you track a cell phone, each cell phone has a unique kind of digital fingerprint, the cell phone ID. | ||
| Each cell phone has only one ID. | ||
| And it's about as good technologically as having, you know, a human fingerprint or even human DNA. | ||
| It has the same degree of reliability. | ||
| Now, interestingly, Truth of the vote doesn't have the names of these mules, but law enforcement, they unmask the cell phones all the time. | ||
| So unmasking simply means you go to a judge, you say, hey, listen, I've got these guys at 10 or more drop boxes, so I have probable cause. | ||
| The judge goes, here's a warrant. | ||
| You go to the cell phone provider, they give you the names of all the mules, and then you go interview them, you know, who paid you, who put you up to it, and so on. | ||
| So where are you at in that process? | ||
| So where we are is that Truth-O-Vote has been working hard with the state of Georgia, but there's a very subtle and complex investigation, and it's not clear that the Secretary of State, Raffensperger, who's leading this investigation, is trying to push it forward or hold it back. | ||
| He's involved in a very complex politics inside of Georgia. | ||
| Now, in Yuma County, Arizona, the sheriff just announced, unknown to us, That there's a new investigation into criminal ballot trafficking in Yuma. | ||
| And this is, of course, important because in the movie, we interview a mule. | ||
| Where is she from? | ||
| San Luis, inside of Yuma County. | ||
| True, the vote has done work in Yuma for months. | ||
| So while the sheriff goes, I'm not doing it because of a movie, and frankly, we wouldn't want him to say any differently, here is a guy who has been checking into this. | ||
| And in a sense, it provides a certain independent validation that this is a legitimate issue. | ||
| This kind of ballot trafficking does go on and it is a crime. | ||
| What has been sort of what you would say is the most legit criticism of the movie that you've seen? | ||
| You know, I've seen a lot of just sort of, oh, here's Dinesh peddling the big lie. | ||
| Actually, like a minute before we connected on Skype, I saw that you tweeted out, it was a criticism from, I think it was like a former FBI guy, who basically just said, oh, Dinesh's big lie movie's going to the theaters, but there's no criticism of the movie. | ||
| It's just sort of this blanket Criticism, but I'm sure you've heard some things that have that have brought up issues or maybe things that you wish you address Etc. | ||
| There are two very plausible and legitimate criticisms and I've tried to address both one was brought up by Megyn Kelly And it was basically this Where do the ballots come from? | ||
| So in other words, we know that they come from the nonprofits, but where do the nonprofits get them? | ||
| Are these are these legal votes that are being delivered in an illegal way? | ||
| Or are these fraudulent and illegal votes in the first place that are also being delivered in a fraudulent way? | ||
| And Dennis sort of brings that up in the movie, doesn't he, as well? | ||
| Yeah, we address this directly in the movie. | ||
| And what we say is, in a sense, we cannot know for sure because we're tracking the ballot from the Dropbox back. | ||
| And we know the origination point is the non-profits. | ||
| So we know the non-profits are paying the mules. | ||
| Now, where do the non-profits get the ballots? | ||
| Now, the problem here is this. | ||
| I cannot think. | ||
| If you were talking about a hundred ballots, I could say, well, you know what? | ||
| Some non-profit went through a housing complex. | ||
| They collected everybody's ballot. | ||
| Well, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of ballots being collected in five separate states. | ||
| So I say to myself, what is the plausible scenario of a legal voter, say Dave Rubin or Dinesh, saying, you know what? | ||
| I'm feeling a little lazy today. | ||
| I don't want to go down to the mail-in dropbox. | ||
| I'm going to go to a left-wing non-profit in the inner city, give them my lawful ballot so they can hire a mule to go in the middle of the night wearing gloves And take photos of the ballots going in, it makes no sense. | ||
| So I cannot think of any plausible way for these to be all legal ballots. | ||
| So my guess is it's a mixture of legal and illegal ballots, but all these ballots are rendered fraudulent by the simple fact that the mules are being paid, and that paid ballot trafficking is illegal in all 50 states. | ||
| So you mentioned the take a picture thing. | ||
| So that is one of the interesting things that many times, almost every time, the way they get paid is they have to take a picture as they're putting the ballots in. | ||
| Otherwise, obviously, for all they know, the nonprofit thinks that they're just dumping the ballots somewhere. | ||
| Would there be any other reason to take a picture? | ||
| I mean, is there any reason someone might take, I mean, other than for Instagram purposes or something? | ||
| Well, this is the key point. | ||
| So Washington Post, Philip Bump and others have basically said, It's not uncommon for people to take selfies to show that they voted. | ||
| They're really proud of their citizenship. | ||
| They want to show that they participated. | ||
| But see, that involves taking a picture of yourself. | ||
| You see the mule standing behind the camera taking a photo of the ballot going in. | ||
| So, again, you have to—and the same thing with the gloves. | ||
| If there were gloves from early voting, October 1, all the way through the Georgia runoffs, January 5, then you'd go, well, maybe it's COVID. | ||
| But when you see that there are no gloves all the way in early voting and on Election Day, and the gloves only show up in the Georgia runoffs immediately following an indictment in Arizona where the FBI busts a criminal ring of ballot traffickers by finding their fingerprints, on multiple ballots. | ||
| Well, which theory is a better explanation of those facts, the COVID theory or the theory that the word went out among the mules? | ||
| Guys, you better start wearing latex gloves. | ||
| What should we know about these nonprofits and sort of where they're getting their funding and are they coordinating it with each other? | ||
| I mean, are they, is this just, you know, these happen to be a bunch of left-wing things that are all kind of doing the same thing. | ||
| I mean, do we know how connected they are? | ||
| Well, what's really interesting, Dave, and we have Scott Walter from Capital Research Center in the movie, he talks about this, a big river of cash goes to these left-wing nonprofits right before the election. | ||
| And this is a little bit strange because nonprofits are, by law, forbidden from engaging in explicit electioneering. | ||
| They can generally exhort people, be a good citizen, get out and vote, but they're not allowed to do any politicking that will benefit any particular candidate or party. | ||
| And the IRS could not be more clear about this. | ||
| So why would you have this large river of cash coming from all these foundations, coming from Soros, coming from Warren Buffett, Flowing into these non-profits, when these non-profits are supposed to, as I say, be neutrals in the election process. | ||
| So, I don't see this as a, quote, conspiracy. | ||
| What I see, rather, going on is there's a coordination on the left and among the Democrats to sort of enable the heist. | ||
| So, consider, like, Mark Zuckerberg. | ||
| He puts all this money in, and he uses it as financial leverage to get all these mail-in drop boxes. | ||
| Some of these cities weren't planning on having this many drop boxes, but Zuckerberg is, you want my money? | ||
| You need to put up all these drop boxes, and if you don't do it, you're going to have to give my money back. | ||
| So you have a private citizen, unbelievably, infiltrating election offices and using his financial muscle to essentially run the way the election is conducted in 2020. | ||
| Now, again, I'm not saying Zuckerberg knew about the mules. | ||
| I'm assuming he didn't. | ||
| But think of it, if he didn't fund the Dropboxes, the mules wouldn't have a place to go to. | ||
| Dinesh, it was only $400 million that he personally gave to fortify the election. | ||
| Are you saying $400 million might have ticked this thing a little? | ||
| Dave, you're talking to a guy who spent eight months in overnight confinement for giving $20,000 to a college friend of mine. | ||
| I was found in violation of the campaign finance laws. | ||
| I was basically locked up overnight. | ||
| When I see the amount of money that these guys are able to put in. | ||
| Now, quite frankly, part of the genius of what Zuckerberg did is, I can't find a law that says you can't do that. | ||
| I think, in a way, the audacity of that move is that nobody even anticipated that actual state laws that govern elections could somehow be manipulated from the outside by a guy coming in essentially with a sack full of cash. | ||
| So, see, all of that enabled the heist. | ||
| But it doesn't mean there was a heist. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. |
Export Selection