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Feb. 20, 2022 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin

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Is Everyone Looking at Political Divisions the Wrong Way? | Charlie Kirk | POLITICS | Rubin Report

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Speaker	Time	Text
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		We are right on, on the hinge.
		We're right on the edge of a national divorce.
		Now I have a contrarian view on this, which is I actually think the sooner we built the, build the parallel economy and we have these other mediums, I actually think deescalates the chance for a national divorce.
		I think it's the exact opposite.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I like that.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I actually, it's kind of like, all right, you do you, we do us like maybe we can have like a five year cooling off period before we actually signed the divorce papers.
		Right.
		And I don't think I think the more that we live under their tyranny, you're going to see real radicalism rise up that I hate and you hate, right?
		Where people are starting to talk about things that I don't, I don't want the country to break up.
		I think it's an awful thing.
		It's my home.
		It's your home.
		I don't want to have to show a passport when I go to LAX.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It's like, I want that to be my fellow countrymen.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to The Rubin Report.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Dave, you're a good friend.
		Honor to be here.
		Thank you for having me.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		We've done this a couple times and I thought, how can I approach this interview in a way that's a little different than what we've done before?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So I thought we'd start off, give me your top 10 reasons you love Joe Biden.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Top 10 reasons I love Joe Biden.
		That's, um, you know, I will say he's actually made me prioritize things in life that matter.
		Not to say politics don't matter, but it's been such a dumpster fire.
		You have to kind of look outside of all the madness.
		And you're like, okay, what really matters in life, right?
		Like what exactly gives you purpose and meaning?
		Cause obviously the things that, you know, we used to, I used to look at the presidency as something I revere and I guess I still do.
		And I love my country, but he's been so awful.
		It's like, okay, there's a couple of things I can control in my life, like family and relationships, friendships, uh, career.
		And I'm going to focus on those things.
		And it's kind of the, one of the few things I want to thank Joe Biden for is he has reinforced, at least for me, Things that I control and things I cannot control.
		Unfortunately, I can't control the southern border.
		I can talk about it, it's wide open, and it's a total disaster.
		But besides that, I'm not sure what else I would put on that list, Dave.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I thought maybe you could come up with three.
		I thought maybe there were going to be three, but I'll accept that.
		But for a guy like you... Yeah, go ahead.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I guess if you want to kind of do the whole like...
		You know, glass half full thing and the perpetual optimist thing.
		And the best thing about being surrounded is you can shoot in any direction thing, uh, which is basically, look, I do think that there's been unintended consequences of what this regime has been trying to implement, which is the rise of the citizen and try.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You were going to get there.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		That was one of the three I had in there.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And like the, the, the homeschooling revolution and people really caring about their country again, And there is a window.
		There's an opportunity.
		There's a chance.
		There's a sliver.
		I don't think it's by any chance certain that this backfires on them so dramatically that it could be a political realignment, the likes of which our generation we haven't seen in 30 or 40 years.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe in the machine enough to believe that something like that could happen?
		Because that's the direction I thought you were going to go, because it's like, everything is so bad.
		Everything is so upside down.
		Even for guys like us who expected this thing to be bad, it's worse than most of us could have imagined.
		But do you think the machine will allow, like just in the last couple of days, watching the narrative on COVID shift, like, do you think it'll allow what should happen to happen, that the voice of the people will actually be heard?
		Between the media and the whole thing.
		That's what I'm talking about.
unidentified		Yeah.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, for sure.
		Of course.
		Yeah.
		Thankfully, critical parts of the machine are falling apart, which gives me hope.
		I mean, CNN is basically a Democrat super PAC that no one watches.
		Facebook is cratering, which is really, really interesting to see.
		Rumble, which you and I really care about, is ascending.
		So there are certain trends right now that kind of go into, maybe the machine isn't as strong as it once was.
		Uh, Americans trust in government as an all time low Americans trust in corporations are at all time low.
		You're starting to see people care more about local than national trends, which is really, really important.
		So I think I think the machine is way weaker than it was even a year ago and let alone five years ago.
		I think that there is kind of like a natural law component to this, where if you try to build a multi trillion dollar oligarchy or oligopoly, I should say, the laws of gravity are probably going to push back against you at some point.
		There will be leaks and dissension, civil war, fracturing.
		And you're seeing a lot of that, not just within the Democrat Party, but within a lot of the superstructures that you and I believe the actual power is vested in.
		So look, I could have a cynical take where I'm like, you know what?
		These people always have power.
		The infrastructure is impenetrable.
		But I'm not so sure of that.
		I think I think that there is a revival to challenge all these institutions.
		And Dave, you've played a really important part in this, which is those of us that love freedom and love the Constitution as the greatest political document ever.
		We're building our own infrastructure.
		We're building our own machine.
		And that's been a really exciting trend.
		I think the regime is really surprised by it.
		I think they're shocked, quite honestly, that we've been able to kind of stand up A YouTube competitor, a payment processing competitor, a Patreon competitor like Locals.
		So quickly, you're starting to see a higher education competitor of University of Austin.
		And all of a sudden, this kind of this monopoly they had on these certain goods and services and credentialing institutions is being challenged in a very serious way.
		But they're still way more powerful than us.
		There's no doubt.
		But I'm optimistic that there might be some legitimate fault lines That would be a slightly better Great Reset than the Great Reset that they've been telling us about.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But I'm curious for you, look, I know you off camera too at this point, but I don't know that I've ever fully asked you this before.
		Like, you know, you were so obviously a close associate and through Turning Point in the Trump's campaign and you wrote the book, the MAGA doctrine, the whole thing.
		To go from that, and, you know, I would go to Turning Point the night that I met Trump at Mar-a-Lago.
		We were at dinner that very night there, and it was after an event you put together and all that stuff.
		And I say that because you were so associated with that.
		Now he's not in power.
		And I just wonder, for you personally, Like, what did the last year show?
		I'm not talking about the political part of, ah, my guy's not in power anymore, but just like the other, you were part of something that was fun and cool, at least from our perspective, and now you ain't in it.
		Or, you know, the thing exists, but, like, it's not in power anymore.
		So, like, what is that just personally for you, like?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, first, it was really demoralizing, not from, like, an access standpoint or, like, the fact you could call the president, like, whatever.
		It was just kind of demoralizing for the country, right?
		I mean, especially the month of January, where, like, okay, You know, at New Year's, I remember thinking, all right, OK, Biden's going to be president.
		At the very least, we can win the Senate races in Georgia.
		You know, we can have a check and balance separation of powers.
		And then January 5th happened.
		OK, we lost that.
		And then January 6th happened, which was a catastrophe.
		Right.
		For a variety of different reasons.
		And so it was a demoralizing couple of weeks in 2021.
		And our team at Turning Point USA, which has always been educationally focused, And our team at the Charlie Kirk show, which has obviously been very aligned with the Trump doctrine and his worldview.
		We're not, what do we stand for?
		And we really went to work, you know, I traveled 330 days, uh, in the year of 2021 and went to campuses and churches.
		And we didn't talk a lot about Trump, honestly, and we didn't talk about Biden either.
		Uh, more than anything else, we talked about what it meant to be an American and what we stood for and why we stood for it.
		And it was definitely this moment where.
		I also had to kind of reintroduce myself to a lot of people that just kind of knew me as, oh, you're the guy that defends Trump, right?
		And it was, I think, very well received in a lot of different ways.
		And I also think it forced our team and our show to go a level deeper.
		I spent more time in 2021 of reading deep books and spending time in very complex philosophy and really challenging my ideas and why I believe it and where does it come from.
		Because it wasn't just kind of like, OK, the left is out of their mind.
		We have to defend the president we have because he's doing a really good job.
		And you kind of get really used to that.
		Right.
		But then all of a sudden, when he's displaced from power, there's a lot of people that are saying, OK, do we want to go back to like the Liz Cheney kind of way of doing things?
		Or why do we want borders to be controlled?
		And so you have to kind of come from that with an approach that is philosophically based.
		Rooted in a natural rights doctrine and also in timeless ideas while also respecting the fruits of the enlightenment, all these really important things.
		And so I think that we've been, I think we're better because of it.
		Honestly, I think our show's more interesting.
		I think our organization is stronger.
		I think we're reaching more people.
		Um, and you know, I'm not to say, not to say that I'm thankful.
		I mean, the country's in horrible shape, but I think we, I think we were able to use what was an adversarial situation or a set of circumstances to our advantage.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that they think that they're doing good?
		I mean, this is a little bit of the road to hell kind of situation.
		Like, do you think, I mean, I don't know if Biden's in charge at this point, which if you want to comment on that, feel free, but like when they all put their heads on the pillow, when Psaki lays down at night, Biden, the rest of them, the Surgeon General, all of these people that are associated with this thing, Fauci, all of them.
		Do you really think they're looking at the information, looking at what's going on here, supply chain, inflation, Afghanistan, et cetera, and going, boy, we really are doing a great job?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Man, you ask good questions, I gotta tell you.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I ask questions, too, every day, and it's a great question, because I get this all the time, and people say, what is the motive?
unidentified		How do they judge success?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		What does the whiteboard look like?
		In, you know, the outer room of the oval, right?
		Like, are we going towards the mission accomplished or are we getting further away from it?
		And this is a hard thing for some people on the center right or people that love the constitution to admit.
		It's not hard for me to admit because I kind of understand the left really well.
		I think they're right on schedule for what they want.
		And I really do believe that they want to be a willing participant in the world economic forum.
		Great reset.
		You mentioned it.
		You know, a little bit sarcastically earlier, but you and I both know this is a very real agenda, which is an hour with Glenn Beck on it.
		Yeah.
		And, and it's, I think that in order to get there, you have to first make America no longer a superpower.
		And that doesn't mean you have to kill everybody.
unidentified		Right.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think there's some extremes people can take towards describing this, but you definitely have to destroy our currency.
		You have to deteriorate our sovereignty.
		You have to erode the national will.
		And then also you have to create mass uncertainty as to what it means to be an American.
		And the person that's probably done the best job of this is Nicole Hannah-Jones from the 1619 Project.
		It's something we talk about every single day at Turning Point USA, which is if you can't tell an agreed upon American story, then you just don't have a country.
		I mean, it's such polar opposites where you and I would look at the American founding as a heroic breakthrough of the human story.
		Where Nicole Hannah-Jones looks at it as a regressive moment in the human story.
		There really isn't much in common from that point forward, right?
		When you can't agree on the Federalist Papers, the Declaration, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights.
		And so I believe that the people in charge, from Ron Klain to Biden,
		they might have their own little kind of wrinkles of where they think the country should go,
		but it's definitely in a place where they want to de-emphasize America's role in the world.
		They want to weaken America, and they think the world will be better because of it.
		This is the most important thing, though, is that, I mean, in the beginning of Aristotle's Ethics,
		there's this incredible line that is hotly debated, which is all human action points towards some good.
		Now, you take out the mentally and politically insane from that, but really what he's getting at
		is that more evil has been done under people believing that they're doing good
		than anything else.
		You take Joseph Stalin, he actually thought he was bettering humanity or bettering himself or whatever.
		Very few people are actually, yes, I'm doing what is wrong and I'm going to keep on doing it.
		It's a very rare thing.
		And I think that these people in charge, and no, I don't think Biden's in charge.
		I think he's a puppet for all these other masters.
		I actually don't think very much about Biden.
		I actually really haven't engaged much in kind of the mental decline kind of meme verse, if you will.
		I think it's a little overdone.
		We all kind of know he's not there.
		I'm more interested in the people behind him and the reason they're doing all this.
		But yes, I think that from the treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, to Mayorkas, to the educational secretary, to all of them, I think that They believe that they are all doing what a good comrade should do to try and usher in a globalist-type project.
		And the American superpower status of a strong economy, being energy independent, a sound currency, and a national story that we all agree on, those are things that are right at the heart of their agenda.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that conservatives, whatever this new wide tent thing is at this point, this anti-woke coalition, and we'll see how tightly it can hold, do you think we just need a better story?
		Do you think the story of just telling American history, say, the way we've seen it, or the way that you and I have talked about it for a long time, That maybe that isn't enough, just going back to, say, Reagan talking points as good and decent as they are.
		Like, do we need a new story, a new narrative to craft to capture young people?
		I mean, obviously that's what you guys are trying to do at Turning Point, but is just saying freedom and individual rights and capitalism, is it not enough that there has to be something else behind that too?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		It's not enough, but it will be enough this year, which worries me.
		It will be enough to take back power for Republicans and defeat the woke just to run against the They're so unpopular.
		They're so awful at governing.
		And that's the thing, Dave, is that not only do they have bad ideas, they're actually bad at executing their bad ideas.
unidentified		I mean, it's like the worst possible- Thank God, sort of?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, that's the thing where I got in this debate the other day and someone says, Charlie, we need more technology in government so they can be more efficient.
		I'm like, you know, I'm actually really glad that they're slow.
		I'm really glad that they take Arbor Day off.
		Because if they didn't, then they'd be like Google, which we know how harmful they can be, which we'll get into the whole corporate side of this.
		But I'm worried because I'm afraid that there's going to be kind of a false stimulus effect to the conservative movement.
		Like, oh, all we have to do is run against the woke.
		We take back every chamber of power, like the Glenn Youngkin thing, right?
		Where I'm afraid that we're going to need a lot more.
		And I'll give you an example of what a lot more looks like, which I think conservatives need to think very deeply about a national recovery program.
		I think that this country has been so severely damaged by unelected bureaucrats, especially young people, most suicidal, drug addicted, alcohol addicted, most anxious, depressed, medicated generation in history, that I think there needs to be an intergenerational apology to try to get this generation back on track.
		And I'm not saying massive government programs or some sort of climate core like AOC wants, but I think we should try to make it easier to try to have conservatizing events.
		And the three conservatizing events, if you will just accept the term, Is to own property to get married and have kids.
		And hopefully a nice fourth one is have a job that means something to you, right?
		That isn't like a minimum wage job or some sort of woke social media manager for Goldman Sachs or whatever, right?
		Those four things are harder than ever for this generation to grab onto.
		And I think that we need to have pro-market-based conversations outside of just kind of the
		immediate muscle memory of the dogma of the kind of ghosts of Reagan past and say, "How do we make
		it easier for a 28-year-old that's $100,000 in student loan debt, that was locked down for a
		couple years, is really demoralized, might be on an unnecessary regimen of antidepressants?"
		How to make it easier for them to break through and buy, quote unquote, equity in the American project, right?
		Because that actually is a really good thing for the country.
		People don't burn down Wendy's if they have a mortgage.
		When you're renting all the time, you become a you become a perfect population that could be captured by these kind of woke socialist revolutionaries.
		And so, no, I don't think it's just enough to kind of have the slogans.
		I think we need to think creatively.
		About these things, and I think we also need to know why we believe in what we believe it.
		The Constitution needs to be our North Star.
		It is the greatest political document ever.
		We nothing we should do should violate the four basic tenets of the Constitution.
		Separation of powers consent to the governed independent judiciary and balance of power.
		Basically, those are that's the core basis of the US Constitution.
		But with that being said, though, Dave, I think that we have portions of the American population that have been so set back By the lockdowns and government interference that if we don't come up with something more robust or exciting, we're going to be looking at a potential political population that will entertain seriously radical ideas.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Right, I mean, how much worse it could be if we don't do something to heal some of these wounds.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You accidentally said ghosts of Rogan passed.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I know.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to that.
		That will be a hell of a segue we're going to slide into when we talk about big tech in just a little bit.
		But you said something interesting there about the intergenerational version of this.
		And I've been thinking about this a lot, that so many of the people that are in power right now, or at least appear to be in power, say Joe Biden, Say Nancy Pelosi, say, you know, any of these people, really any of them.
		You can, Dianne Feinstein, who everyone knows is almost incapacitated at this point.
		Just the amount of, you know, they're not, I guess they're upper-end boomers, but they're also the last of the great generation, something like that.
		But these people that are in their, say, mid-70s and up, that are still clinging to power.
		Nancy Pelosi with that ridiculous re-election video.
		from two weeks ago, and it's like, lady, you're 81, go be a grandma, like, enough.
		Do you think there's something, what do you think that is psychologically, maybe, about that generation that they can't let go?
		Because that does seem to be a big problem here, and I've seen in just the last couple weeks that suddenly, Gen X, I'm 45, right in the middle of Gen X, like, my generation, you're a little younger than me, so you're not, you're Gen Y, is that fair to say?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I'm a millennial.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You're a millennial, no offense.
		But the 35, 36, to say 54 year olds, we just haven't had our chance yet because for some reason those people kept hanging on at every level.
		Do you think there's something psychologically going on there that didn't allow them to let go?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're going to get me in a lot of trouble, Dave, because we talk about this a lot.
		And the angriest emails I get are on this topic.
		So buckle up, I suppose.
		You said something super interesting, which...
		Nancy Pelosi, go be a grandma.
		And she kind of still sees herself as this like 33 year old kind of like AIDS crusader in West San Francisco that is getting higher.
unidentified		Yeah.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		But do you know what I mean?
		Which is like, okay, like you've had your chance.
		Go look beyond yourself.
		That's what a grandma is all about, right?
		Like go look about, go look towards the next generation.
		Are you actually preserving things that are beautiful, true and good?
		For her, it's kind of like, no, I still have to have that one more election cycle.
		You don't understand because that's when the real revolution is going to happen.
		And so look, I mean, it's the tyranny of the septuagenarians and the octogenarians.
		And there's a lot of great people in the seventies and eighties category in our country.
		It just so happens, none of them are in leadership right now.
unidentified		Right.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		So it just so happens that the cream that whatever has risen to the top isn't the best.
		And so you kind of have a through line of Biden and Schumer and Pelosi that have been in this shtick for 30 or 40 years, literally, and they don't really care about the damage they're leaving to the next generation.
		It's kind of like they want to have their two to four years to rule over the ashes and they're going to die.
		And I hate to be so morbid about it, but they're on the back nine of the back nine.
		They're on like hole 17, right?
		And so you got to start to all of a sudden look like who's the next group of people that are going to be playing.
		Now, you know, you've had Eric Weinstein on your program before.
		He talks about the ego, the embedded growth obligation.
		I think that's a really smart perspective about how this is a generation that has literally experienced nothing but prosperity economically their entire life and has gotten used to it and acts as if That is something that is just kind of baked in human existence.
		Things get better, don't get in my way.
		But I think that the entire way that we reacted to COVID kind of exposes all of this.
		I think it does so in bright and dramatic colors, which is It really is kind of the first modern civilization that has willingly sacrificed the young to placate the old.
		And there is no other way to describe it.
		I mean, some people will reject the premise, but we went from shutting down schools because it might hurt kids to shutting down schools because they might transmit a virus to grandma.
		That's a totally different moral argument, by the way.
		Totally different.
		The first moral argument is like, okay, it might kill young people.
		I get that.
		The next is, oh, now they might get infected and they might kill grandma.
		I'm not into that.
		Obviously I want to protect seniors.
		But that's a totally different argument, which is like, OK, we must inhibit your development.
		We must suppress your life experience and your activities because you might then hurt the generation that does not have as many years left to live.
		And so, yes, I think an intergenerational apology is necessary.
		Totally.
		And I will say that kind of that 35 to 54 year old bracket is the I think it is going to be, in my opinion, the great swing to the right that no one expected.
		I think there is more red pilling happening.
		between ages 35 to 54.
		And there's a lot of boomers that are really conservative and God bless them for that.
		And they continue to be.
		But there is kind of this question of like the 42 year old mom that looks, she's like, wait a second, you know, I wasn't able to get the career advancement that maybe they wanted because I had to wait for boomers to age out.
		And now my kids have to wear masks because a bunch of septuagenarians are worried about this.
		And I think that we're experiencing The kind of the climax of generational tension.
		And we saw this, I'll say one final thing in this, Dave, which is this is nothing new.
		This kind of immoral behavior first manifested itself through fiscal policy.
		A generation that was willing to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars to add to the national debt in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, with no regard for the fiscal health of future generations, is the same type of generation that locks down seventh graders and doesn't think anything of it.
		So you know that we just do that around here, okay?
		Like, we'll put their life on hold, we'll steal their savings, we'll steal their purchasing power, because I'm important and I matter.
		And I think that really, I think that betrays the social contract.
		I think it goes directly against what it means to be a patriotic citizen.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You say 35 to 54 are gonna be the red pill generation.
		It's like, I'm 45.
		I know a little something about this red pill situation, right?
		So it's like, I'm with you, man.
		I feel it.
		You know, you see those pictures online of, you know, Stacey Abrams unmasked in front of the kids and Hokel over in New York, smiling with the kids.
		It's like, these kids are gonna do some pretty horrible things to old people one day.
		You can really feel it.
		Do you, not just to talk about it at an ideal level, but because you're around so many college kids, kids, I mean, they're young adults, through Turning Point, have you seen a real shift in their attitudes on this stuff?
		You know, we go to the events, when I go to Turning Point events, it's always so positive and fun and all that stuff, but like, have you seen a difference in the way they're reacting with the ideas or resentment or whatever it might be?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Definitely on the center right, for sure.
		Our students are pushing back like crazy.
		We have a list.
		I was just going through it.
		We have 35 schools that have staged walkouts in the last 24 hours at turning point USA over the mask mandates.
		And we support them a hundred percent.
		We're helping them with PR support and, and times legal support, all that stuff, because the mass mandates have gone out of control.
		But I will say Dave, that the mass propaganda, dare I say mass formation, psycho psychosis, trying to get us both taken out, man.
		Yeah, there we go.
		Well, I figured this will be on local, so we know the owner.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		They won't buy Spotify.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		But, You know, that kind of mass propaganda campaign has really worked on a lot of young people.
		And it's kind of a great irony where, and this is a stereotype, but the average 70 year old, 60 or 70 year old right now is far less concerned about COVID than I think the average 17 year old.
		And that's a stereotype.
		That's like a generalization, I should say, but there has been a lot of induced fear amongst high school and college kids completely and totally unnecessarily.
		And there's a cost to pay for that.
		It's going to be a generation that is the least free thinking generation absent our intervention and trying to get them their humanity back.
		It's the most medicated generation, most suicidal generation, the most confused generation, the most directionless generation.
		But we're starting to see some pushback against this and some hopefully writing of that trajectory.
		But I don't think it's enough.
		I don't think that this is going to fix itself.
		I think that we need, and I don't say this lightly, you know that I'm a small government conservative guy, but I think that we need a collective intervention to try to fix some of these trends that have gone so awry.
		I don't just think that we're like, oh, well, we shut everything down for two years.
		We vaccinated kids who didn't need it and put masks on them.
		They had no social development.
		They are not speaking the way they should.
		The IQs are stunted.
		Like everything's going to kind of sort itself out.
		I'm not as convinced of that.
		I'm not.
		I think there's some very interesting, bold, robust, entrepreneurial, and creative ideas that could probably fix this.
		But I'll be honest, Dave.
		There's been a little glimmer of hope amongst some of the young people, but it's nowhere near the type of rebellion that I would like to see.
		It isn't.
		I saw far more activism and energy around Greta Thunberg's, the world is ending climate change propaganda, and far more energy amongst the average high school kid around Florida Palooza, Than I did around mask mandates, vaccine mandates, or being locked down and not being able to see their friends.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you're not overstating this stuff.
		I just read this crazy study about what masks have done to adolescent children who are now having all sorts of delayed speech.
		Literally, the muscles in their mouths are not developing the way that they are supposed to because they don't move their mouths and they don't talk enough.
		And they can't see the mouth of the teacher, so you can mimic it to speak, probably.
		I mean, it's really, really crazy stuff.
		What do you think of the pivot that they're about to do?
		We can see it happening right in front of our eyes.
		They are the good guys.
		They didn't want to lock us down.
		They're going to somehow pin this on.
		It was the Republicans that did it.
		They're all just repeating the stuff that Charlie Kirk, that Ron DeSantis was saying two years ago, but Charlie Kirk was probably saying some of it too.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		We were saying the same thing.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you admire the pivot that they're about to do that they're in the process of doing right now?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Do I admire it?
		No.
		I think it's good for the country.
		Yeah, it's better now than 10 years from now.
unidentified		Sure.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Terrific.
		But I mean, look, I don't say this lightly.
		There needs to be justice.
		People need to go to jail for what they did.
		There needs to be some sort of mass firing campaign.
		Decredentialing campaign.
		None of that's probably going to happen.
		I'll be very honest.
unidentified		Yeah.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But what would that really look like?
		Cause I've kind of thought about it.
		Like I do think some of these people probably in a, in a really sane society that would grapple with this properly, properly.
		Some of these people would end up in jail, like literally in jail.
		And, and, but I don't know, what does that really look like?
		We're gonna have a Nuremberg for COVID.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I would love Nuremberg, but I mean, some people say that's radical, but I mean, there is, I think a lot of the tenants of Nuremberg.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		There's the media matters clip for today.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I mean, we've done entire shows on Nuremberg.
		But yeah, sure, they could pick it up and run with it.
		But that's probably not going to happen.
		I try to live in the land of reality.
		I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
		What I would like to see, though, happen, Dave, is a legitimate public policy and legislative campaign around medical autonomy, around medical freedom.
		And I think there's a lot of answers we still do not have.
		We do not have answers around the money flow from a lot of these pharmaceutical companies to politicians or their campaigns.
		We do not have answers as to why early treatments were suppressed.
		We've been a very outspoken program on ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, melatonin, aspirin, monoclonal antibodies, intravenous therapy, vitamin D levels.
		I think it's one of the great injustices of my life, the fact that most Americans were not properly exposed to those things.
		But don't worry, we're subsidizing crack cocaine pipes for people You know, in San Francisco, all the while, the controlled substance our government cares about is the perfectly safe and probably very, very effective ivermectin.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It's, it's- Dude, Biden sent me three crack pipes.
		I only need one.
		You want me to send you one?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Is that- I wouldn't know what to do with it, to be very honest.
		So, um, haven't exactly ventured into that domain of human existence.
		So, um, yeah.
		He'd give me lip balm in case my lips get too chapped while smoking crack on the, you know, in, in Fisherman's Wharf.
		in San Francisco. But yeah, look, what would justice look like? I don't know, but we definitely
		need some action, right? We need legislative changes. We also, I think just from a more
		constitutional perspective, we have to make sure the emergency use powers are never used again by
		these governors and mayors. I know that might be wishful thinking, but I think in some red states,
		they were used and abused way too much.
		I think these legislatures have to step up and look, if you want to shut down a state, go to the legislative process.
		I totally, I would say that's fine.
		If like you can get the Ohio state house and state Senate to shut down a state for 30 days, I actually think that's okay.
		I think that the courts might knock it down here and there, but just like the fact that a governor can just sign a piece of paper and shut down bars in schools, that's, I think that's a usurpation of what the constitution, especially in a state based level and definitely a federal level, It's supposed to be able to do.
		I'll give you another example.
		The fact that Joe Biden could just sign a piece of paper and say, you have to wear a mask on an airplane, go through the legislative process.
		So those are some remedies for sure that we have to do that I think could slow down kind of this indulgence of, you know, kind of autocratic and tyrannical behavior we've seen, but we're not going to get the justice that I would want to see, Dave.
		I think that any doctor that interfered with a patient trying to get ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine needs to be held criminally accountable.
		And I don't say that lightly.
		And Dave, you get a lot of emails.
		I get a ton of emails.
		I have hundreds of emails of people that have relatives that died in the hospital and they were trying to give them these life-saving drugs and the hospital says, oh, those drugs might kill them.
		And then they die.
		And so it's like, wait, we're dealing from already the potential of, we know death is in the cards.
		So why wouldn't you try it?
		Some of the more, you know, let's say, you know, censored treatments.
		And so I think there needs to be justice with that.
		And the hospitals need to be held accountable.
		But, just kind of managing expectations, that's probably not going to happen.
		But, the last thing you said, do I admire it?
		No, I don't admire it.
		Why are they doing it?
		Well, the science has not changed.
		No matter what, you know, Dr. Wen says.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		The science has changed.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, look, and this is the thing is that trust the science, trust the science.
		We did a whole podcast on this that I think it was really well received.
		One of the best podcasts we've done in a while as far as like response, which is that they conflate two things, right?
		They conflate things that we would call the natural law, like force equals mass times acceleration, the irrefutable tenets of Western science, right?
		The inquiry into the natural world.
		Second law of thermodynamics, the inevitable law of decay.
		And they conflate that with conjecture and hypothesis, right?
		So they put that all into kind of the same term, as if if you challenge wearing three masks while you shower, you're somehow at war with Copernicus.
		Right?
		And like, the average engineer who works at Ford, right, is like, well, you know, I'm trading the sciences.
		I don't ever want to question that.
		When in reality, they had that which we know and that which we think we know.
		And they were never honest enough to separate those two things.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Charlie, you're blowing my mind right now.
		I got to write this down.
		Are you telling me that a squared plus b squared equals c squared is more valid Then when you're at a restaurant you can walk in without a mask and when you have a mask when you walk in and you can take it off when you sit.
		Is that what you're telling me here?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I'm telling that you know I know it might really blow your audience's mind that the things we know In the Western scientific tradition that have been true, that really proven to be the laws of nature and nature is God, which Thomas Jefferson brilliantly wrote in the declaration is far better science than vaccinating a six, six month old with a vaccine against a virus that isn't going to harm them significantly anyway.
		Or let's just think of all this, the scientific calisthenics that we've heard in just the last couple of weeks.
		Was it Gavin?
		New Eric Garcetti had said he held his breath when he, uh, You took a picture at SoFi Stadium or Gavin Newsom.
		He said, well, I just took a picture.
		I put the mask back on.
		I mean, and just the, or Dr. Vivek Murphy, who said you have to wear masks at home around your children.
		That was in the last couple of months.
		And we know the science is totally insane.
		I mean, you take the mask mandate on planes, for example, it's right.
		It's the only virus in the history of communicable diseases that does not come out as soon as the beverage cart comes out.
		It stops.
		It's so scared of the hot coffee and the sanitized Coke cans that it stops all transmission.
		But from going from New York to LA for a year and a half of the pandemic, you could not go eat indoors.
		But if you wanted to go eat indoors, just go board American Airlines at JFK and fly to LAX.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But we all folded.
		We all kind of folded.
		You know, I said to my guys, it's like, I'm doing just fine.
		I'm not complaining about life.
		But my goal after these last two years is to become so rich I never have to fly commercial again.
		Because I flew private twice for the first time ever in this past year.
		And they've made the flying experience, even though, yes, you can take off your mask to drink your coffee and eat your small chicken, it just Ain't right what they're doing, but do you think the federal mask mandate, I mean, I haven't heard any talk about they're going to stop it on airplanes, and we've got idiots like Swalwell pushing it forever.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if he did it on a plane or not.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		That would be a very interesting chapter two of the Fang Fang Diaries.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		As long as he had his mask on.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		I mean, that's correct.
		So do I think the federal mask mandate will be lifted?
unidentified		No.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		And you actually, you make a really important point, which is because the people in charge aren't affected by it.
		Biden doesn't fly commercial.
		He flies Air Force One.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But he always puts his mask on right before he gets off Air Force One.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I always love that when it's like, oh yeah, yeah, you guys have been wearing it on the helicopter at Air Force One, okay.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		And it's COVID theater, but this goes to a deeper point that the Founding Fathers warned us against.
		And the more we kind of dwell and we marinate and ruminate on the brilliance and the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, we realize they saw a lot of this coming, which I think in Federalist 51 or one of those associates, Madison warned What would happen if the group of rulers are exempt from the laws that they push upon the citizenry?
		And that's why Congress technically can't pass laws that they are immune from.
		They found carve outs and ways to do that.
		But the federal mask mandate on airplanes is a perfect example of this, which is a vast majority of the members of Congress and especially people financing the members of Congress.
		They're totally unaffected by it.
		And their kids go to private schools where there are no mask mandates.
		And they fly on private jets where there's no mask mandates.
		And yeah, look, Governor Mussolini married into the Siebel family.
		I don't know the last time he flew commercial, right?
		He's flying around probably on a Gulfstream or a Learjet or whatever.
		And I guarantee you the family's not masking, you know, when they hit 15,000 or 20,000 feet.
		No, they're having a great time and they're laughing about it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And- Charlie, they spent 200 grand on a one week vacation in Cabo about three months ago, right?
		The same week he extended his emergency powers.
		I don't live there anymore, by the way.
		Very exciting.
		Can't you tell?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're happier.
		You're paying more taxes, right?
		You've become more conservative, which is just delightful.
unidentified		But yeah, it's and we call it hypocrisy.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		It's not.
		It's hierarchy, Dave.
		It's not hypocrisy.
		Yeah, it's I am better than you.
		I'm going to crush you and I don't care.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a bad dude.
		But all right, I know we can go on this stuff forever, but let's link some of this to the big tech stuff that you and I have been talking about forever.
		And as you said, we're both involved in the Rumble situation.
		You were sort of early on with the Rumble team.
		Obviously, Locals merged with Rumble.
		There's a lot going on there.
		Do you honestly think we have a chance?
		I mean, even just in the last couple of days, look, we put our best foot forward.
		We made this offer to Joe Rogan.
		He may not take it, but we felt it was the best thing we could do to defend our principles and fight for what we believe in.
		We shall see.
		You know, we're fighting on every front, the payment processor front, the AWS front, the algorithm front.
		But do you think we can really do it?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		We don't have a choice.
		We have to win.
		We have to get this right or else everything we love falls apart.
		I have been so encouraged, though, just in the last 12 months, Dave, How much momentum there is behind this kind of new technology space.
		From locals, which is terrific, which is a way to bypass the Patreon gatekeepers, to the content creators that have gone all in on Rumble, you, our program, Dan Bongino, Dinesh D'Souza, Russell Brand, Tulsi Gabbard, you know, freedom-loving, liberty-loving people all across the spectrum, but do believe that big tech tyranny is an existential threat.
		I thought the offer to Rogan was really brilliant.
		I don't know Rogan.
		I've met him once.
		I think It would be really smart of him personally to take the rumble deal, uh, because they are not going to stop.
		This is this censorship hit job train.
		He says, Oh, Spotify stood by me.
		I don't think so.
		They're removing episodes and putting disclaimers.
		You and I are way too cynical for that, Dave.
		We've been through this entire program many times and maybe a couple of years ago, we might've said that.
		But, um, and look, it's definitely, the rumble was really smart to offer the a hundred million dollars cause it made it legit.
		Well, we'll see what Rogan ends up doing, right?
		I mean, he signaled towards Spotify or whatever, but the point is that it wasn't totally laughed off, Dave.
		And that shows how real Rumble is, right?
		That shows that we can win this.
		So to answer your question on the probability argument, I first made a moral argument.
		We have to win this.
		We have to do this.
		I think Rumble is going to be a 20 or 30 or $40 billion company.
		I'm confident of that because there is a center right of the planet, not just the country, that is desiring a platform that actually allows voices to speak their mind and not be taken off and not have these sort of woke gatekeepers.
		But look, there are going to be institutional challenges, but to, you know, I know we keep talking about rumble, but they're not, you know, not alone.
		There's other people in play, but rumble is definitely the most sophisticated, I think best funded and most momentum.
		I think that it's ahead of schedule.
		And I think that there's gonna be starts.
		I think there's some chatter already in Silicon Valley of what are we gonna do about these rumble guys?
		Well, you can't shut off their servers, right?
		You could probably go after their advertisers for now, but then you got locals,
		which is hundreds of thousands of grassroots people supporting people via Patreon,
		which is gonna be incredibly effective to be able to kind of have the super chat feature of videos,
		which is a huge revenue source for Google.
		There'll be institutional ads that will always go behind Rumble that are on the center, right?
		And so what else do they kind of have in the tickler file to try to go after Rumble?
		Okay, they're going to try to go after the ad network.
		They're going to try to go after New York Times, Washington Post.
		You're platforming hateful people.
		Yeah, but when you start to have a roster of Dave Rubin, Charlie Kirk, you know, Daily Wire is coming online, is what I'm hearing.
		You have Dan Bongino and others.
		All of a sudden, you're like, yeah, OK, we're going to link arms and we've created TechNado.
unidentified		And we have Article 6 and you attack TechNado.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You didn't just come up with that, did you?
		You've used that one before.
		Come on.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I've never said it out loud, but I have wrote it.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I have a whole pamphlet of kind of one-liners, but you could use it, TechNATO.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And-- - TechNATO.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		It's article five or article six of NATO, which is attack on one of us is attack on all of us, right?
		And to kind of tie in the whole Ukrainian thing, that's why Ukraine and NATO is such a controversial thing.
		It's like Putin crosses the line, it's the same as invading Paris or London.
		And it's like, okay, you go after Dave Rubin, then you have to deal with all of us
		and our combined power and our combined followers.
		And I'm starting to see that solidarity.
		And guess what?
		That word solidarity is something that we freedom loving people don't do well, but when we do it, we win.
		It's not in our blood.
		We're all entrepreneurs or individuals.
		We think we could do things better than each other, right?
		We're competitors.
		You know, we'll go out to dinner with one another and they'll be like, yeah, I kind of liked that idea.
		And that like, whatever, but that's, that's, what's beautiful about markets.
		But now we're at war and we need solidarity and we need alliances.
		So I think we got a chance to win.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I like that every time I'm on your show, when I say something clever, you always say to me, I'm stealing that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But I'm going to credit you for this technado.
unidentified		You got it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's the difference.
		That's the difference between us.
		That's right.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		The attribution.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But do you see, okay, so let's say we build this stuff, and it's all great, and yes, we are working real hard, and there's a lot of questions, but there's a lot of answers as well.
		So we start building all that.
		We know that the trends where people are moving are going very heavily to freedom-loving places.
		Nobody's moving to blue states right now.
		I think California lost almost 400,000 people last year.
		First loss of population ever.
		As these things continue to go, I mean, what keeps us the United States?
		If we've just got our own products, and we've got our own states, and they've got their products, and their states, where are we united?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Well, we aren't.
		And you're right.
		And so just to kind of reinforce the point though, you know, Netflix is down, Facebook is down, California is down, Florida is up, Texas is up, Rumble is up.
		Right?
		So look, I've said this for quite some time.
		I think we're living through a slow motion secession movement, and the act of secession is happening on United Airlines every day.
		in the nonstop flight from Los Angeles to Orlando or from Los Angeles to Miami.
		It's a movement of secession.
		And it's not, it's not a one that breaks the country apart immediately, but they're starting to say out loud what I have feared.
		And it's mostly pop icon people, you know, uh, Sarah Silverman or that guy from hell boy, whatever his name is.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, whatever.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		And they're saying it out loud.
		I don't want to live in the country with you.
		You don't want to live with me.
		Let's go our separate ways.
		And a very provocative but honest thought exercise for your audience and for all of us to kind of dwell over, which is what do I, Charlie Kirk, who live in Phoenix, what do I have in common with a San Francisco woke activist that's 24 years old that just graduated from UC Berkeley?
		I believe America's awesome.
		They believe America's awful.
		I believe in basic natural rights.
		They believe in collective and tribal rights.
		I believe in free speech.
		They believe in power.
		I believe That we should have borders.
		They don't believe in borders.
		Yeah, I could go through the whole checkpoint, the checklist.
		The only thing that we have in common is the dollar bill that we're trading.
		It's literally the whole project is basically hinging on a currency and that is not an over exaggeration.
		You don't have a shared story.
		You don't have shared values.
		You don't have a shared future.
		You don't have a shared policy prescriptions.
		Everything is quote unquote politicized and divided.
		And so, you know, we've, we've, we've kind of dwelled in this field to the great, you know, The great cost of being written up in Media Matters, which is a wonderful thing to happen.
		They're like PR experts.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		They love you over there.
		They like you more than me with all the pieces they do.
		It's great.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		They write up what you say and it's right there.
		And then you could share it like, Hey, look, it's, we are, we are right on the hinge.
		We're right on the edge of a national divorce.
		Now I have a contrarian view on this, which is I actually think the sooner we build the,
		build the parallel economy and we have these other mediums, I actually think it deescalates
		the chance for a national divorce.
		I think it's the exact opposite.
		I actually, it's kind of like, all right, you do you, we do us.
		Like maybe we can have like a five year cooling off period before we actually signed the divorce papers.
		Right.
		And I, I don't think, I think the more that we live under their tyranny, you're going to see real radicalism rise up that I hate and you hate.
		Right.
		Where people are starting to talk about things that I don't, I don't want the country to break up.
		I think it's an awful thing.
		It's my home.
		It's your home.
		I don't want to have to, Show a passport when I go to LAX.
		It's like, I want that to be my fellow countryman.
		I don't know if they believe that.
		Um, I think that they want to, I think there's, there's two, there's two thoughts on this, right?
		Which is most of the leftist rulers will reject a national divorce because they want the whole enchilada.
		Right?
		They want every county, they want every inch, and they want us to live in their tyranny.
		Like, they are up at night, really angry that some Baptist preacher in Enid, Oklahoma is not, like, perfectly in alignment with, like, every single one of their worldviews.
unidentified		Right?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Like, that really bothers them.
		Where it's like, as a conservative, like, I don't really care about some guy in Brooklyn that hates me.
		Like, okay, whatever.
		It's like, so who's the actual liberal in this equation, right?
		Like who's the live and let live guy, right?
		It's like, is it the Baptist preacher, the conservative in Phoenix, or is it like the person in Brooklyn that's really angry that someone disagrees with them in like central Iowa?
		But you know, that's part of it.
		But I think that, so those are the kind of the imperial Democrats, right?
		They want to take over territory.
		It's like, We are not going to stop till everyone succumbs to our agenda.
		And then the other side of it though, are like the Sarah Silverman, Ron Perlman types, which they're actually being more humble and honest.
		I have to say that I have way more respect for people that are like, let's just break up and not fight.
		And that's actually a better, that's a better starting point than like, we're going to take over Kansas.
		Like, well, hold on a second, like probably not going to, that's not in the cards.
		Does that make sense?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but can I put a fly in that ointment on the second one for you, which is they're saying let's break up and just that's it, but they'll never let that be.
		I think you would agree with that, right?
		If we give them the breakup that they want, Sarah Silverman, guess what she wants?
		It's like, she'll never stop.
		She's not going to stop as Florida flourishes, as Arizona flourishes and Texas flourishes, and as their places, you know, just crumble.
		They're not going to stop.
		Now they're going to want what we got.
		So the second one might be more honest.
		Um, but it's not, I don't think it's fully thought through.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not thought through.
		And look, there's, and I, this is not an exaggeration.
		There's a thousand externalities that I don't have answers for military water rights, ports of entry, right?
		Like who gets rights to minerals?
		How do you travel back and forth?
		How do you divide the citizenship?
		What if you don't want to live there?
		I mean, it's like, again, we have, If we actually put our heads together, there's enough mature people that could probably figure this out.
		But if we're dealing with Chuck Schumer, like, I don't know, like that's probably not going to go well.
		Do you know what I mean?
		He's like, no, no, no, no.
		Actually, I want Marshallton, Iowa.
		Like you can't have.
		And so, yeah, that's why I, I and you, we want to heal this land.
		We want this to work.
		We want this Republic to stay together.
		I don't think there is a manageable exit from this, and I would rather solve this with ballots than bullets, as Abraham Lincoln said, and I don't want this to go to conflict.
		I'm afraid it's trending that way, and the media always says, like, oh, Charlie thinks a civil war is coming.
		First of all, I never use that term, but when I say conflict, I don't think that's out of the cards.
		Wanted to happen, but you can only raise the temperature in the room so much before you kind of provoke a kinetic response.
		And so I actually think the parallel economy is going to be an unintended pressure release valve for Liberty loving people across the country, which is like, okay, now I at least have a place I can watch videos.
		Like now I have a place I can bank right now.
		I have a place I can get a mortgage and I think that's going to hopefully bring the temperature down in the room.
		despite the best wishes of the other side.
		It seems like they want conflict, which is a whole different conversation for a different time.
		It seems like they want us to punch first, and then they could justify the security state apparatus behind it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this concept of building the parallel economy purely to keep it together is actually interesting, because most people think of it as, oh, that accelerates the separation, because then we can just go our separate ways.
		But I like this release valve idea.
		Kirk, you got one today.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Very impressed.
unidentified		Thank you.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
		All right.
		Now let me get you in some real trouble.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		OK.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Because everybody is looking to the midterms and there's this feeling that there's going to be this red wave.
		Although, as I said, we're seeing the pivot happen in real time.
		And you can also feel the media trying to link January 6th to somehow the truckers and that we're exporting a worldwide insurrection and all of this nonsense.
		But I want to ask you this.
		Well, A, I guess, give me a little bit of your take on what you think is going to happen in the midterms and are there areas we could focus in to make sure that we get a nice result?
		But B, you know, everyone's looking at the 2024 situation.
		I want DeSantis to stay the governor of Florida.
		That's what I want.
		I think the state you live in is way more important.
		I think he's only been in one term so far.
		He's done a heck of a job.
		I just think that's more important than the presidency, believe it or not, although obviously it is important.
		Do you, as a guy that at least part-time lives in Florida, or is there a lot, do you like that idea?
		Do you think he should run?
		Where does Trump fall out?
		What do you know on the inside?
		The whole damn thing.
		Charlie, go.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		I'll start with the midterms.
		I think Republicans are going to do well.
		I'm worried that we're not going to do nearly as well as we should.
		Every single indicator shows Republicans are going to take back the House.
		Senate is a little bit up for grabs.
		This should be a 60 or 70 year seat majority for the House of Representatives, which is enough.
		Where you could hold on to that for at least two or three more cycles.
		Um, so I don't know.
		It remains to be seen.
		Democrats are going to try to correct a couple things.
		You could start to see that already.
		They're having Obama come in and try to tell them to not be so radical out loud.
		He's really good at kind of saying, right, he does it on the stop, tell the truth, right?
		Like that, that's kind of his whole deal to try to tell people to, you know, that are running for office to just camouflage the radicalism, right?
		Just tell people what they want to hear.
		So I think that they're gonna I think they're gonna get their parade in order shortly.
		That's my warning to Republicans.
		I still think we're gonna do very, very well, especially in some of these Senate races like Arizona and Georgia.
		I think it'll be a 7 to 10 point swing on top of what things naturally are.
		I'm afraid I'll reinforce a point I said earlier.
		I think it will be a misleading indicator of the health of the Republican Party because of how bad the Democrats are.
		This will be a massive indictment of the woke and the Democrats and the insane And the COVID lockdowns where people are just looking for some way that they can just like, what can I vote for?
		That isn't them.
		I think Virginia was an example of that.
		I think the incredibly unexpected airtight race in New Jersey was an example of that.
		I think a Republican winning the city attorney's race in Seattle was an example of that.
		That's all back in November, but it's important to remind people of that.
		So that's one thing I'm happy to go more, more into that.
		It's still, it's too early to kind of make predictions on like seat majorities, but I am not seeing from Republicans what I really want.
		Which is a Newt Gingrich style contract with America promises clear and concise.
		Here's what we're going to do.
		And it's not just, you know, free trade and giving China what they want and mass amnesty plan and lower taxes and socialism is bad enough, right?
		I think voters want more than that.
		And I think they want honesty.
		So on the Trump thing in 2024, he is going to run every single indication points towards that.
		I think actually Trump will benefit from a primary challenge.
		Um, I think that if he actually has to run against somebody who isn't a joke, I actually think that would really be good for him.
		I think that's one of the things that made him such a powerful general election candidate in 2016 because he had some of the most amazing metaphorical political crossfit training one could have.
		I mean, he ran up against like 29,000 people, right?
		It was like 16, but it was like from every direction, right?
		It was like Scott Walker and boom, Ben Carson was like Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz.
		It was like nonstop.
		By the time he had to run against Hillary, he's like, I ran against 16 people.
		This is nothing.
		So I think that I'm not trying to encourage someone to run against him.
		I would rather see him obviously go unopposed if that's necessary.
		It's probably better for him in the sense of, you know, not having to spend as much money.
		But I actually think kind of shaking off kind of some of the dust and getting back into the metaphorical ring could be really, really good for him.
		As far as DeSantis goes, I think he's unbelievable.
		I think he's the greatest governor of the last 10 or 20 or 30.
		I can't think of a better governor.
		Ron DeSantis has done everything right and everything issue that matters to me from vaccine mandates to opening up Florida to being strong on crime across the board.
		He's been phenomenal.
		I think someone like DeSantis or it could be him Is the future of the Republican Party.
		I truly do.
		But Trump's going to run, and that's going to be a challenge for a lot of people.
		I think that once you win one presidential election, you have a chance to run again.
		I really do.
		In 2020, there were massive irregularities.
		Happy to get into all the kind of voter fraud conversation if you want.
		I think Dinesh D'Souza's new film is extraordinary in what it looks into, and the evidence is very, very compelling.
		I think some of that could be shored up.
		I think Trump could win again.
		And look, I think that there's positives and negatives to him running again.
	The positives are he was a terrific president.
	He was tremendous.
	We know what we're getting.
	He has a base unlike anything we've ever seen.
	He'll raise a bunch of money in small dollar donations.
	He'll work his tail off.
	And I think that He also has a record to run on in contrast to this current absolute dumpster fire that we are seeing in real time.
	And also make no mistake.
	I don't think people are really looking forward to having another Democrat president after four years.
	If we had I want people to think about this.
	If we had a parliamentary system and there was right now a national vote of no confidence confidence against Joe Biden, he'd get run out of there immediately.
	No, we don't have that type of system, right?
	We just don't.
	But if the election were held today, Donald Trump would just clobber him and every like he would win like 40 states.
	I think he would win New Hampshire.
	He'd win Nevada.
	And so look, I also think, though, that Trump has to have he has to make some adjustments going in 2024.
	If you're running up against a self destructive candidate, do not get in the way of your enemy defeating himself.
	I think that was something that's a great learning lesson from 2020.
	And I think 2016 Trump, where he was big, bold, ambitious, and he was willing to capture the imagination of the American people.
	I think he has to play a little bit more into that.
	It's hard when you're an incumbent to do that.
	I get it.
	But 2016 Trump, he made people dream.
	He really pushed the boundaries of what a political candidate is allowed to talk about.
	I think he could recapture that in a very, very compelling way in 2024.
unidentified		Charlie Kirk, future political consultant.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It's been a pleasure talking to you, my friend.
		I will see you probably, I sense it will be on the West Coast of Florida.
		What do you think?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		West Coast of Florida is the place to be.
		My place in Florida will not be disclosed, but it's not too far from Rumble's headquarters, the heartbeat of the response to the Silicon Valley tyranny.
		So honored, Dave, thank you.
		And check out my locals, everybody.
		It's gonna be great.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It's charliekirk.locals.com, right?
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		See you brother.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		See you soon.
charlie kirk ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics, instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here.

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