Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

May 16, 2021 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin

54:34

Brexit Lessons Republicans Must Learn or Lose in 2022 | Nigel Farage | INTERNATIONAL | Rubin Report

Participants

Main voices

dave rubin

08:29

nigel farage

45:38

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		I think that the risk for the Democrats is they fall as out of touch with people living in the Midwest, living wherever else it is in this country.
		Open door immigration got Brexit over the line and has destroyed socialism in the United Kingdom.
		And that I think is a very inspiring message.
		But it needs a Republican Party that's got a distinct, clear message.
		As to how they're going to deal with the crisis.
		So they've got to get themselves organised.
		But with the right message, there are an awful lot of Democrat voters that will vote Republican next year.
unidentified		(upbeat music)
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I'm Dave Rubin and joining me today is a British activist, commentator,
		former leader of the UK Independence Party, as well as the former leader of the Brexit Party.
		And now he's on tour right here in the US of A, Nigel Farage.
		I don't know how we haven't done this before.
		Finally, welcome to The Rubin Report.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm delighted to be here.
		And yeah, I've come, actually, with a very optimistic message.
		Because I know a lot of conservatives here are really down at the moment.
		Down that their guy got 75 million votes and somehow didn't win.
		Down about what's going on in our cities with a deliberate attempt to divide black and white people, which is horrendous.
		And down about what Biden might do.
		Is he going to pack the court?
		I mean, all these things.
		And my sense from my American friends is some of them are down to the point of being disillusioned.
		Yeah.
		And disillusioned movements, pessimistic movements, don't win.
		So the message I've come with is this.
		We voted Brexit June 23rd, 2016, a great historic night.
		Three years later, guess what?
		Our contract, our contract to leave on March 29th, 2019.
		We woke up on March 30th.
		Not only had we not left, it looked like there was no prospect of us leaving.
		And yet we led a grassroots rebellion fight back.
		We've smashed the establishment.
		We've won.
		We've got Brexit.
		The Socialist Party in the UK, who were heavily on the Remain side and heavily pro-open borders, are literally being crushed electorally week by week.
		And my message is, however bad it looks, actually, this administration are making some terrible mistakes.
		What is happening on the border effectively turns every state into a border state.
		So my message is, don't be down.
		Don't be mad.
		There's a big chance here for a massive victory in 2022 and an even bigger one in 2024.
		But the right in America needs to unite, needs to have some common messaging, just one or two less egos.
		around the place might be quite helpful.
		If we could beat the global establishment and get Brexit back over the line, you can do it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So I love the message, obviously.
		There's something kind of funny.
		You're coming to America to bring less ego.
		That's a tough one.
		That's a tough one.
		But one of the things that I love about you, and we've gotten to know each other over the years a little bit, we've had a couple of gin and tonics together once or twice.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		We sure have.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But you're the type of politician that actually does instead of just talks.
		Can you talk a little bit about what that is like?
		Because I think most people see politicians at this point basically just as bureaucrats who pretty much just take their money and do nothing, or maybe lock them in their homes.
		But you actually make things happen, and that's gotta be very different than most of the people that you're around often, or have been around over the years.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		So in June 99, against the flow, totally unpredicted, I found myself being elected as a member of the European Parliament, and everybody was shocked.
		Yeah, who is this guy?
		What's this new party?
		And I remember the next morning, the phone rang, and it was a guy who'd been a commentator and a satirist in Britain, a guy called Christopher Booker, very intelligent man.
		And Christopher said to me that morning, he said, Nigel, after 40 years of study, I can tell you, there are two types of people in politics.
		There are those who want to be someone, and there are those who want to do something.
		And make your mind up, young man.
		I was young then.
		He said, make your mind up, young man, which of those you want to be.
		And here's the point.
		He was absolutely right.
		The vast majority of people in politics are there for rank, title, position, status, and they'll sell their grandmothers to climb the greasy pole because for them it's all about career advancement.
		Then you get people in politics who are doing it out of genuine conviction because they believe the agenda they're pursuing is going to make their country better and the lives of their people better.
		And I personally couldn't give a damn.
		about titles.
		People say, oh, you're not Lord Nigel, you're not Sir Nigel.
		I couldn't care less about any of that.
		I did this because I could see globalism building.
		Back in the 1990s, I could see bureaucracy was beginning to win over democracy, and I was determined to do something about it.
		So yeah, I'm a doer, and I'm not here for the title.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember when you first saw it?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		When was the first moment that you saw something that really alarmed you?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		The first big moment was in 1990, when the government pegged sterling against the basket of European currencies, effectively the Deutsche Mark.
		Now, anybody with any economic history knows all pegged currency systems end in disaster.
		None of them, through time, ever succeed.
		And they'd done it because they wanted us to join what became the euro.
		And that was the first alarm bell.
		That whatever they were telling the electorate come general election time, actually, they were literally selling off our country.
		And then there was a rebellion.
		In 1993, there was a rebellion.
		Backbench conservatives rebelled over a new European treaty, the treaty that turned it from a European community into a European Union with a flag and anthem and all of those things.
		And I watched this rebellion.
		And right at the last minute, John Major, who was the Prime Minister, used a motion of confidence to get this treaty pushed through.
		And I couldn't believe it.
		I said, well, hang on.
		You've been telling me, guys, that if this treaty goes through, we lose our independence.
		And yet, when it came to it, you decided to put your career, you decided to put your party above the interests of the country.
		And I realised then that the so-called Tory Eurosceptics were frankly A bunch of chinless wonders.
		A bunch of losers.
		None of them had the stomach for the fight.
		And I said in 93, I'm going to do this.
		I don't care if people laugh at me.
		I don't care if I'm the only person that votes for me.
		I'm going to fight this and do this as a matter of principle.
		You know, frankly, that moment spelt the next 27 years of my life.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Did you have any idea the opposition that you were gonna come against?
		I mean, when I was in London last time, when I saw you, it was during the tour with Jordan Peterson, and it was in the middle of Brexit, but there was still a huge feeling like, Ah, maybe it's not gonna happen and maybe the bureaucrats still will take over or do some last minute tricks.
		And then of course it was framed that all the people that supported it were racists and bigots and all the rest of it.
		But just the endless machine that we now all see that has been so exposed, and in many ways from an American perspective, thanks to Donald Trump, was so exposed.
		Did you realize how crazy that machine was gonna be and what it was gonna do to you and your supporters?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Gandhi, of course, fought the campaign for India to leave the British Empire and to get its independence.
		And Gandhi once said, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, and then you win.
		And I went through every one of those four stages, you know.
		In the beginning, I was being ignored completely.
		When they couldn't ignore me, I think I was the most cartooned, the most lampooned person on comedy shows.
		It was as if I was like the sort of patron saint of lost causes.
		And then, and then, the moment that it really changed was in 2004, eight and then ten former communist countries joined the European Union with total rights of free movement.
		And this led to millions of people coming into the United Kingdom.
		It was too much, too quickly.
		It was out of control.
		And that was the moment when I linked the immigration issue with the sovereignty issue, the independence issue.
		And that was the moment that the establishment turned on me.
		And they spent basically the next 15 years trying to tell anyone that would listen that I was a racist leading a dark, dangerous movement that harked back to the 1930s.
		I mean, nothing could have been, David, nothing could have been further from the truth.
		That is what they tried to do.
		And I have to tell you, in all honesty, if I'd known Just how horrible my life was going to be.
		I don't know whether I would have done it.
		I mean, you know, I finished up having to live with protection around the clock.
		If you went out somewhere, people threw things at you.
		And this was the media.
		This was mainstream media working with big global corporations, trying to maintain their own self-interest.
		But in the end, in the end, you know, you can keep pushing accusations against somebody, but if you can't prove it, It's a little bit, it's a little bit like crying wolf.
		And in the end, people saw through it.
		But yeah, it was it was tough.
		It was hard.
		And then, you know, I was perhaps guilty of some naivety, because on the 23rd of June 2016, that moment where we've won And all the parties promised that they would honour the result.
		And then we saw a three-year campaign.
		As you say, we were told we didn't know what we voted for.
		We were told property prices would collapse.
		We were told millions of jobs would be lost.
		We were told foreign direct investment from America and elsewhere would dry up.
		We were even told, brace yourself for this one, We are even told there would be an outbreak of super gonorrhea in the country because the drug that was used to treat it came from Germany and we wouldn't even get supplies of drugs.
		I mean, there is no depth to which these people did not sink.
		But the resolve of the British people did not budge one inch, and I believe There is a parallel.
		I don't believe those 75 million people who voted for Donald Trump have changed their mind.
		In fact, I think in many ways, probably in their hearts, they feel it even more strongly.
		And that's why I'm on this tour, to spread that message, a message of optimism.
		a message that you can beat the odds, you really can.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I know you're a pro because you just did the exact transition I was going for,
		because there are so many parallels to what's happening in America right now.
		And everything that you just described that the UK has been going through for,
		you know, really the last 20 years.
		Are you sort of surprised that conservatives or right leaning people or anyone that cares about
		that flag that's right behind you, that everyone seems a little bit lost right now,
		that there really is a shell shock situation since, really I think it started probably on January 6th,
		but then once Biden took over and that he's been so much further to the left
		than most people thought.
		Not that I thought, but that the pundit class thought.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look, I think, yeah, obviously the election result was a shock.
		The events of January the 6th were unsavory.
		There's no other way of putting it.
		And it's been difficult.
		It's been very, very difficult.
		And yes, as you say, Biden being pulled to the left, Biden, you know, even dropping references to God, which I think shocked- Just this morning, yeah.
		Many, many, yeah, yeah.
		Many, many tens of millions of Americans.
		I understand why people feel depressed and down, but look, I was getting this in 2018 in the UK, in the 2019.
		Everyone's saying to me, Nigel, it's done, it's finished, it's not going to happen.
		And I kept saying to them, no.
		And I spent that period of time planning, planning the next fight back, planning the next big campaign, because I knew, I just knew that once we got the arguments back out there again, people would rally, rally to the flag, as it were.
		So, look, I understand it, but I think there is a responsibility here on American commentators, American journalists, American politicians who are on the centre right in this country.
		They have a responsibility.
		To stop doom-mongering, frankly, to the extent that many of them are.
		And over the course of the last couple of weeks, I've met with a lot of congressmen, congresswomen, and they are down.
		They are depressed.
		They are down.
		Well, if you're depressed and down, if you're disillusioned, if you're defeatist, that then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
		So I would just say to all these commentators and all these elected politicians, If you give the appearance of being miserable and depressed, you are letting down not just your party, not just the millions of voters, you're letting down the country.
		I mean, goodness me.
		You know, Winston Churchill, in the middle of the Blitz, when the big cities were being bombed night after night for 60 nights, and what did Churchill do?
		He said, we will come through this and move on to the sunlit uplands.
		Even at that darkest of desperate moments, with thousands being killed every day by bombing, Churchill offered a vision, the shining light on the hill, the optimism.
		And that's what needs conservative politicians need to start doing it.
		And frankly, need to start doing it very quickly, because the electoral cycles here, it's almost unending, isn't it?
		But if there are going to be big successes in the midterms, dramatic successes, In the midterms, people have got to get prepared and start planning right now.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		When you decided to do this tour, were you sort of like, oh man, I can't believe that the U.S., that I'm going to have to come to the U.S.
		to give a little jolt to this thing?
		I mean, where's the me at the moment, you know, as Trump is still somewhat on the outside?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look, my first job, After I left college was in 1982 working for Drexel Burnham Lambert of Wall Street fame.
		All right.
		I spent I spent 20 years working for American companies before getting involved in politics.
		And since 2016, I've been pretty involved in politics here, too.
		You know, I came in 2016.
		Trump put me on a stage with him in Jackson, Mississippi, and I came with the message That because we'd won Brexit against the establishment, that you too, the Trump campaign, could upset the odds.
		So I have a huge interest in what happens here.
		I'd also say this to you.
		You know, we've got Brexit.
		We're free.
		We're away from this bureaucracy.
		And the signs for the future of our country are looking very, very good.
		Even the IMF now think, having told us doom and disaster would befall us, that we're now going to outperform the French and German economies.
		All right?
		You know, the point is this.
		The point is this.
		If we with Brexit, if America falls.
		If America falls to hard left socialism, you know, and we know that those behind Black Lives Matter and elsewhere are dedicated Marxists, determined to bring down the Western world.
		If America falls, where does that leave us as Brexit Britain?
		Because the fact is, the English speaking peoples of the world share something extraordinary between us.
		You know, we are all family.
		We know whether people like that or not, but we are all family.
		So I don't want America to fall.
		And I like to think, David, But the message I brought in 2016 did give people a sense of, wow, these guys have done it.
		We can do it.
		And I'm trying to come back with that same optimistic message again.
		So I'm spending six weeks going around, you know, speaking to grassroots events, trying to rally people.
		And I can tell you, Already two weeks in, the number of people that have come up to me and said, boy, I really needed to hear that.
		I really needed something positive.
		So I hope, I hope I can do a bit of good.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's interesting, the kids, I don't know if you know the phrase black pill, but the kids are calling this black pill when you sort of, you're red pilled, meaning you've woken up to all of this.
		And then I know you get that one, but then the black pill is, oh, but now the whole system is so corrupt and so against us that you just sort of, Check out, so you're kind of waking them up from that, because that's the path you don't want everybody to go down.
		That's what I'm trying to do as well.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you know, the thing about Brexit was that it was a long campaign.
		It took me, I don't know, 27 years of my life.
		But the thing that I was able to do, David, was to build a grassroots army.
		A grassroots army, which I dubbed the People's Army.
		And they were proud to serve in the People's Army.
		Proud to give of their time, their money, their love.
		And it doesn't matter how young you are, how old you are, if you want to get involved, you can all do something.
		You can put things through doors.
		You can make telephone calls.
		And that's why Freedom Works, you know, which is a non-party affiliated grassroots conservative organisation, for me, that's the perfect fit.
		And, you know, all these men and women who are going to be running next year, You know, for seats.
		They need their own people's army.
		And so that's what I'm trying to do.
		And as I say, thus far, I think I'm making, you know, it may not be huge, but I feel I can make a bit of a difference.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So I think people get the Brexit analogy to the American experience.
		Can you talk a little bit about what happened to the left in the UK as well?
		Because your Labour Party really went bananas under Corbyn.
		And sort of became what is so obvious to me is happening right now to our Democratic Party.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		So the British Labour Party has its roots way back to 1900.
		It was a working class movement.
		It was quite strongly Methodist as well, sort of low church, high church for the Tories, low church for Labour was kind of how it was.
		And it was genuinely a working class movement.
		But a patriotic working class movement.
		The Labour Party, you know, whatever socialist policies they brought in post 1945, they believed in the country.
		You know, Clement Attlee, who was the Prime Minister that brought in the welfare state, on his door it said Major Clement Attlee.
		He was proud of the First World War service that he'd given.
		And what has happened to the Labour Party is it's become a party of the globalist metropolitan elite.
		It's become a party predominantly of the upper middle classes, people born into relative sort of champagne socialists, I guess, is the kind of phrase that we would use.
		And their globalist view means they're ashamed of saying anything vaguely patriotic.
		They wouldn't be seen dead, you know, with a Union Jack or an English cross of St.
		George because they don't like any of this symbolism.
		And on Brexit, they have completely and utterly You know, turn their back on Brexit in every way.
		They lost a special election, a by-election in the north of England.
		It had been a Labour seat forever.
		They pick someone to stand who thinks we should rejoin the European Union.
		I mean, they just don't get it.
		But the key, and this is where I think the crossover could be very interesting, the key is this.
		When UKIP started to pick up millions of votes, It wasn't just middle class conservatives voting for Nigel Farage.
		No, it was patriotic working class people living in the north of England, a lot of them in the north of England, and people who believed that mass uncontrolled immigration was driving down their wages, changing their communities beyond all recognition.
		And that doesn't make these people racist.
		It makes them want to keep their towns, their communities, their families in some shape that is recognisable.
		And they were the people that came to me.
		And, you know, I'll tell you something.
		The Labour Party at the centre basically thinks we're all global citizens.
		We can all go wherever they want.
		So Labour has lost its voters on Brexit.
		It's lost its voters on open borders.
		It scared its voters when Jeremy Corbyn It was pretty much an anti-Semite as well, was its leader.
		And the Labour vote now is collapsing.
		So look at what's happening on the border.
		I'll bet you, if we had dinner tonight with AOC, now that sounds pretty unlikely, David, I know.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Probably not happening.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, probably not happening.
		But if we talk to that group, they would not be in the least bit concerned.
		about what's happening down on the border.
		In fact, we understand some of the people that come are given Kamala Harris books to read.
		I mean, you can't believe it, but it's happening.
		They don't think it matters.
		And I think that the risk for the Democrats is they fall as out of touch with people living in the Midwest, living wherever else it is in this country.
		Open door immigration got Brexit over the line and has destroyed socialism in the United Kingdom.
		And that, I think, is a very inspiring message.
		It needs a Republican party that's got a distinct, clear message as to how they're gonna deal with the crisis.
		So they've gotta get themselves organized.
		But with the right message, there are an awful lot of Democrat voters that will vote Republican next year.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you think there's a fundamental reason that the left tends to always double down instead of saying, oh, something has changed here and maybe we need to take a look in the mirror, but instead they always seem to go to their most extreme?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you have to understand who's driving the left.
		And frankly, follow the money is very good advice for most things in life.
		And if you look at the kind of causes...
		that the Soros's and others back, you know, they are not going to change their view one little bit.
		These are big, powerful organisations that effectively want us to finish up with one world government and one world people.
		It's an updated form of the old Marxist theory.
		It's never, ever worked.
		It never, ever will work.
		And frankly, I think the elected politicians in most cases aren't much more than pawns in that game.
		They are being used.
		They are being directed.
		They're not thinking freely.
		So all the influences on them tell them, no, don't worry, even if there is some short-term difficulty, because you're doing the right thing.
		And for them, of course, the right thing, the kick they get is they feel morally superior.
		They actually think they're better people than we are.
		But none of that works when you go out to a good, ordinary, decent folk who work hard, bring up their families.
		And Reagan was very good at this, very good at getting Democrats to vote Republican.
		Trump has been very good.
		And there is a kind of a realignment, I think, going on within American politics.
		And I think the opportunity that it provides for 2022 is simply enormous.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Where do you think Trump fits into that?
		Because that seems to be the outlier at the moment.
		It's like, is he gonna run?
		What I've been trying to tell people is, to me, it seems like the best thing he could do is basically be the outsider taking the fire, and then you get a guy like DeSantis to just run right through.
		That seems to make sense to me, but Trump obviously does whatever Trump thinks is best.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have spent some time with him on this trip, And that's a meeting of friends, basically.
		We have become friends.
		This is what I said to him, OK?
		I won't say what he said, but this is what I said to him.
		I said, look, we've got the external threat of the Chinese Communist Party getting more and more aggressive.
		And who's to say in Taiwan or elsewhere what might occur over the course of the next few years?
		We've got the internal threat, which, of course, is cancel culture.
		and the threats that represents to free speech and everything else.
		And I said to him, I don't see anybody who's got the courage or the charisma to fight those
		things. Now, if somebody else comes along who's got the big charisma that can do the job,
		that can rally people in those working class communities to go out and maybe for the first time
		vote Republican, if that person comes along, then fine. But you know something,
		Donald Trump, people like him don't come along very often.
		I mean, the guy has got an incredible animal magnetism, and he's shown more courage as a leader than any global leader I've seen in my lifetime.
		That guy was under relentless assault from day one, just as they tried to stop Brexit, they tried to delegitimize him, and it never stopped.
		And of course, if he'd eased back on his policies, they would have eased back on the pressure.
		But he didn't.
		He's got the courage of a lion.
		Now look, he's got his faults.
		Of course he has.
		We've all got our faults.
		But in his heart, and with his instincts, does he stand for the right things?
		I truly believe that he does.
		So let's see what happens as the next couple of years roll out.
		But do you know what?
		When I saw him, he's lost a lot of weight.
		He's playing loads of golf, taking loads of exercise.
		He looks younger than he looked in 2016.
		I mean, most American presidents age.
		Obama and Co.
		You can almost see them graying before your eyes.
		And the fact that he's going to be 78 next time around, well, who knows?
		But God willing, if he's in the same kind of shape that he's in now, there's nothing to stop him from doing it.
		And the other point here that's worth mentioning, I went to I think it was eight of the rallies in the run up to the November election all over America.
		I want to tell you something.
		I've never seen enthusiasm.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		No, I know.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		I've never ever seen anything like it.
		They admire this man.
		They love this man.
		And I would say to, you know, those those in a position of power within the party, if you really think You can find someone better than this.
		Well, good luck.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's kind of funny because I remember when I met you for breakfast one morning and we took a picture and I posted the picture and then people were saying, oh, look, you're with that racist, that racist.
		And meanwhile, we sat there for two hours, we talked about freedom, we talked about liberty, all this stuff.
		And it's very similar to going to a Trump rally when I started going to those rallies.
		And I'm thinking, oh, am I gonna see these racists here or something like that?
		And it's the happiest, most joyful people who, in many cases, are not political at all.
		They're just there because they want to express some level of freedom, something like that.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, absolutely.
		I mean, this has been a constant attempt by the left to tarnish us with this racism word, and it just doesn't work anymore.
		The real racists are actually those behind Black Lives Matter.
		And I really mean that.
		You know, when Martin Luther King said In that amazing speech.
		I mean, what an orator the guy was.
		But when he said, I want my four children to be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
		And now what's happening through BLM and elsewhere is we are dividing people up into different groups, dividing them up on the grounds of race, Ethnicity, gender, whatever else it may be.
		And that is disastrous.
		That is destructive.
		That is the real racism.
		And I loathe it.
		And I want to live in a country where everybody is treated exactly the same.
		Because if you start giving special privileges to certain groups, you then automatically alienate other groups who feel left out.
		A free, fair society would have equality of opportunity for all.
		And of course, I condemn and loathe racism.
		And yes, there are some.
		There is a fringe.
		On the extreme right, who I think we should simply, David, have nothing to do with whatsoever.
		But you're quite right.
		You know, whether it was my UKIP supporters, my Brexit Party supporters, Trump supporters at the rallies, these are very, very good, decent people.
		And the more mainstream media, you know, or Hillary Clinton point fingers at them and call them deplorable or ignorant or stupid, the greater their resolve to fight What do you make about how the BLM movement, some of the Antifa stuff, that now that is being exported.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you guys are seeing some of that on the streets of London now, and it's happening in other Western countries as well.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, within 24 hours of the death of George Floyd, within 24 hours, there were riots in the streets of London.
		So don't tell me this was a spontaneous outpouring.
		This was all planned.
		They'd been waiting for the opportunity.
		I mean, I was disgusted, I mean, to see, The Cenotaph in London, the monument to one and a half million dead fighting for liberty in two world wars, to see that desecrated, to see the Churchill statue repeatedly desecrated.
		And what stunned me was to see British police officers taking the knee in the streets.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And your police officers don't even have guns.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		They don't, well some do, some do, some do, but I think we're going to have to, that's a policy that we'll need to change, no question about that.
		But to take the knee, and I was going on UK TV and radio and writing, saying to everybody, understand what this is.
		If this organisation was genuinely about equality, genuinely about getting rid of racial prejudice, I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.
		But the truth of it is, and you've only got to read their website.
		They tell you they're an avowedly Marxist organization intent on defunding the police, bringing down Western capitalism and for a new Marxist order to take its place.
		That is what they're doing.
		They are trying to destroy us.
		And yet I've been horrified on both sides of the pond to see big corporations, you know, trying to say wonderful things about them.
		I even saw St.
		John's Church Opposite the White House.
		I was there yesterday.
		And they've got a Black Lives Matter poster.
		I mean, what is going on?
		Don't people realize this is a bad, dangerous organization?
		These are things that really grieve me.
		And it's the lack of courage of enough people to stand up and tell the truth for fear of being called racist.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So with that all in mind, what do you think's gonna happen with this mayoral race in London?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Because it looks a little messy at the moment.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the things that has changed politics in the United Kingdom has been postal voting, early mail-out voting.
		We've seen it abused again and again and again.
		There is no country in which this is safe.
		And I was trying to warn America this time last year that if you went down this route, you know, the left will always win at this.
		Because you see, If you think you're morally superior, cheating is quite an easy thing to do.
		Whereas our side just won't cheat.
		And I'm pleased to say that, really.
		But you're never going to win.
		The one country that's got this right is France.
		Now, the French don't get much right, in my opinion.
		But the one thing they've got right, they've seen how open postal voting is to fraud, intimidation and abuse, and they've banned it completely.
		So do you know what they do in France?
		If you want to vote in France, I'll tell you what happens.
		You go along to the local hall.
		You show your identification.
		You're given a piece of paper.
		You go into a polling booth.
		In secrecy, you put a cross next to the candidate or party you prefer.
		And after that, there are no voting machines used.
		There's no need for those.
		They're manually counted.
		They're put in piles and totaled up.
		And that is free and open democracy.
		There's a big lesson we can learn from it.
		Now, what Khan has got going for him in London is they've signed up vast numbers of the Muslim population to these postal votes.
		And I, look, I know that in those communities, you know, the women are signed up for postal votes.
		But do you actually think they ever, ever, ever Get the chance to exercise that?
		Of course they don't.
		I once saw a box, a vote box, being emptied onto a table at a count in a place called Oldham in the north of England.
		And unbelievably, of the thousand or so ballots that were in that box, the percentage that were voting for Labour was 100.
		That is literally impossible.
		So, you know, that is what keeping Sadiq Khan holding on in London, is the power of that postal vote.
		But even in London, which has been the great labor stronghold, even there, the party is now seriously on the decline.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		What do you think of my friend Lawrence Fox?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you think he has a chance to actually, from a liberal, a true liberal perspective, do you think he has a chance to fight off the progressive movement onslaught?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Look, look.
		I admire Lawrence.
		I like Lawrence.
		I mean, you know, he's a great guy.
		And the next time you're in London, we'll go out together.
		He is a great guy to be with.
		Starting new political movements from scratch.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You know a little something about this.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it took me so many years to get UKIP set up.
		In the end, we had 400 chapters around the country, millions of supporters, but it doesn't happen overnight.
		Now, the things that Lawrence is battling for are fundamentally important issues.
		It is about the relationship between the individual and the state.
		And this is something that we've always prided ourselves on, frankly, ever since Magna Carta.
		But going all through the years, we've been the freest of all European countries.
		In fact, the freest of all the English-speaking world.
		We've never had to have ID cards or any of these things.
		Now, with Covid, we've seen those liberties stripped away in the most remarkable and very hasty fashion.
		So, look, Lawrence, in terms of making the arguments, he's in the right place.
		I wish him well.
		But if I'm being honest with you, It's gonna take a lot of years to build a movement that's big enough to be effective.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you make a distinction at this point between someone that would say they're an old school liberal and a conservative?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Is there any distinction worth mentioning at this point?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it's a funny thing, isn't it?
		You know, I mean, if you'd said to me 20 years ago, Nigel, where are you on the left-right spectrum, I'd have called myself a Gladstonian liberal.
		You know, Gladstone was a liberal prime minister back in the 19th century, but one who believed in freedom of the individual, you know, believed in the country.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		A JFK Democrat from our perspective, basically.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I have to say, I've stopped using the word.
		Classical liberalism, if you go to the Oxford Union and debate with some of the brightest students in the world, maybe there you can talk about classical liberalism.
		If you try and talk about classical liberalism to anybody else, if they're conservatives, just go mad.
		Because the word liberal now means illiberal.
		The liberals wanna ban everything.
		The liberals wanna control everything.
		The liberals don't even believe in free speech.
		So yeah, classical liberalism, I'm afraid, is only for the debating chamber.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I get it, I wrote a book defending it, but I hear ya, I hear ya.
		You mentioned the lockdowns.
		You've had some difference of opinion with Boris Johnson on this.
		Where are you guys at with lockdowns right now?
		Is it vastly different in the cities versus the suburbs?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, The truth of it is that Boris Johnson's government were painfully slow to address the issue when it first came to us.
		18 million people flew into the United Kingdom during the first months of COVID-19 without a single person even being asked to take a test.
		So we directly imported this.
		When the government then did decide it was going to do something and lock us down, the truth of it is they've taken it way too far.
		At the moment, We're 50% lockdown still.
		I mean, even though COVID deaths now are in single figures every day, right?
		Single figures every day.
		On many days, the number of road deaths will be bigger than the number of COVID deaths and suicides on a lot of days will be bigger than COVID deaths.
		You can go to a pub, but you can't drink inside.
		You have to drink outside.
		Which at this time of the year in England isn't very appealing.
		You can go to a restaurant, but you can't eat inside.
		You have to eat outside.
		Non-essential shops are back open, but the damage that's been done to them by Amazon is just incalculable.
		Because that's where we finished up with this.
		You know, I couldn't go.
		Say I wanted to buy a pair of trainers for my kids.
		I couldn't go to the local market town and buy them because the shop was closed.
		I had to order them through Amazon online.
		And this is one of the great sadnesses.
		It's the little people that have been so, it's the self-employed and little people that have been hurt.
		And of course, the public sector, oh, they love it.
		I mean, this is fantastic for them.
		They're being paid to sit at home and drink beer without any threat to their jobs.
		So it's big business and big government has benefited from this.
		So look, frankly, we should have eased up a long time ago.
		But I will say this, Boris, despite everything, Despite his own personal difficulties, of which he's got many, despite all of that, there's been one huge success, and it's this.
		It's the vaccine rollout.
		None of us have ever lived perfect lives, but gosh, his is very, very complicated to
		say the least.
		Despite all of that, there's been one huge success and it's this.
		It's the vaccine rollout.
		OK, so as members of the European Union, we were part of the European Medicines Agency
		and the European Medicines Agency, through an unelected European commissioner, was to
		make the decision in any pandemic as to what should be done.
		[BLANK_AUDIO]
		We left the European Medicines Agency with Brexit, and The Guardian and others said this proved that Brexit was a death cult, because we'd left the all-embracing arms of this big unelected government.
		And the truth of it is, the one thing they have got spectacularly right They handed this job to a woman from private equity, who in six months put in place a system, as opposed to the EU, where a woman from Cyprus, who nobody had ever heard of, who nobody had ever voted for, with a degree in psychology and no other life achievements that I could discern,
		has made an absolute, complete and utter mess of it.
		So you know, basically, basically, we vaccinated, you know, three, four, five times the number of people that our European counterparts have.
		And that is being seen as a, you know, by the way, if you don't want to take the vaccine, nobody should force you to take the vaccine.
		But basically, people over 50, people who are overweight, people who've got diabetes, you know, in vast numbers, they have gone to get the vaccine.
		And it kind of proves Whether you're pro-vaccine or not, it kind of proves that we're better off outside the European Union.
		We're better off making our own decisions.
		The approval rating for Brexit is now 70%.
unidentified		70%.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I saw that this morning.
		I mean, that's actually incredible.
		So to you, that must be like the true reward of this thing, that when push came to shove, not only did you get it there, but then in the year or so since, people are actually going, oh, there was a reason for this, and the country didn't collapse, and racists aren't running in the streets, and everything else.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		David, I could not be happier.
		How many people, How many people set out with a massive life ambition and actually achieve it?
		And I have.
		Frankly, I almost can't believe my luck.
unidentified		It's not luck.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's always a bit of luck, but now I can go to the local supermarket I walk around and get some shopping without a security guard.
		And people are coming up and say, well done, Nigel.
		We love it.
		So things have changed.
		I mean, you know, all that abuse that I took for year after year after year.
		The game has changed.
		We're out.
		In terms of geopolitics, Brexit is the biggest change since the fall of the Berlin Wall over 30 years ago.
		It's the first, you know, literally the first big kickback against globalism.
		And I'm optimistic.
		The other European countries in time will follow us too.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So speaking of other European countries, do you sense that some of the Eastern European countries that are doing more on borders right now, that seem to be fighting a lot of the critical race theory stuff, not allowing some of the gender stuff into the system, do you sense that they're better set up to fight this stuff than say the UK and America?
		Because they were communist countries and more recently, and they sort of get the bad stuff that could be on the horizon.
		Is that really why they're setting up?
		Well, I'm talking specifically about Poland and some of the countries over there.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, have a five minute study of the history of Poland in the 20th century.
		It is a desperate, desperate history.
		You know, I mean, not just communists, but Nazis invaded.
		I mean, the whole thing.
		So bloody, so awful.
		And of course, the tragedy in 1945 that, you know, as Churchill very much predicted in that speech at Fulton, that we finished up with an iron curtain, as he named it, down the centre of Europe.
		You know, these Poles, the reason they joined the European Union is because it was sold in a job lot with NATO.
		Now, if I was a Pole, I would absolutely want to be in NATO, you know, for every reason.
		But now the debate that's going on in Poland and in Hungary is if unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are telling us who we should appoint to court positions, what decisions we should make on gay marriage or other very important social issues, the argument is now resurfacing.
		Well, hey, what's the difference between this and living under the Soviet Union?
		And you're right about their culture, their identity, And indeed, they're Christianity.
		Christianity is very, very strong in those two countries that I've mentioned.
		And I think everything the European Union does continues to alienate those very proud countries.
		And I think at some point, at some point, they will not stay part of this union.
		And the other interesting dynamic that's going on is the single European currency, the euro.
		All right.
		means that all countries in it are in the same economic and monetary union.
		How can Greece and Germany coexist inside the same economic and monetary union?
		They can't.
		It's literally impossible for cultural reasons.
		And at some point in time, Greece, Italy, perhaps even Portugal, will decide we simply
		can't go on like this because they've got the wrong valuation of currency.
		It's hopeless.
		And I remember the late, great Milton Friedman saying that if you get stuck in a currency
		peg that's wrong for your country, one of two things happens.
		Either you get out and devalue, or you devalue the country.
unidentified		I I think Greece knows a little something about that right now.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, since 2009, Greek GDP is over 25% down.
		And Americans think about that.
		You know, Buddy Can You Spare Us a Dime in the Depression was a 16% fall.
		This is a 25% fall.
		So, you know, far from being this wonderful project, that was going to serve all the peoples of Europe well.
		It's robbing them of their independence.
		It's making huge numbers of them poorer.
		Oh, sure, if I was a German car manufacturer, I'd love it, because the Deutsche Mark would be a damn sight higher than the Euro is.
		So it's been wonderful for German exports.
		But no, look, I recognised this early on.
		I recognised that this was just yet another attempt to dominate everything and take everything over.
		I called it in the parliament repeatedly.
		I said, this is the new form of communism.
		And of course, whenever I did that, 500 of them would start booing and screaming and jeering.
		But hey, it didn't bother me.
		I mean, I rather enjoyed it.
		And that's what it is.
		And of course, for the globalists, you know, for people here like the Clintons, the Bidens, the Obamas, who so love the European Union project, Brussels is the epicenter of the globalist project.
		And if we can defeat that, I really genuinely believe we're taking the free world or putting the free world back into a far better place.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Who do you think is behind the Biden thing?
		I mean, well, do you think it's Biden that's behind the Biden thing?
		That seems to be the question.
		People say, okay, is it the Clinton machine behind it?
		Is it the Obama machine?
		Is there a distinction?
		But like, who do you think is really kind of driving this thing?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can't be him, obviously.
		I mean, look, he's just a duffer, isn't he?
		I mean, he can barely string a sentence together.
		And so he's quite malleable.
		And for some of those with a hard left agenda, that makes him quite useful, because he isn't going to resist too much.
		I'm also told that his actual work rate is down to just less than a handful of hours every day.
		He's just physically not up to it.
		And I've been asking the same question that you've asked in the last two weeks here.
		The common consensus is that team Obama still have a massive hand to play in all of this.
		And I don't know enough, maybe you do, I don't know enough to contradict this, but that's certainly from those who I would judge to be in the know, that's their view.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You remember there was that famous interview years ago where Obama said it would be great if he could just not be president, but be pulling the strings from behind.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		That would be pretty, I mean, the guy said it himself.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think to some degree that does appear to be happening, yeah.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you sense now that you're here in America and you're on tour and you're in the middle of the country and seeing the heartland and everything, that America is uniquely set up to fight this, even though maybe we can't quite see it right now, but our history, the way we left King George, the way we fought for independence in a very unique way, the way that this country was set up as an idea for all people, Do you think, is that in essence the thing that you really want to reignite?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And is that why you've got that flag behind you right now?
unidentified		Yes.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah, you know, I mean, I'm not American, but I have a huge, as I've said already in this interview, a huge self-interest and I care passionately what happens in this country.
		And you're right, you know, when American children were being taught properly at school, I'm not sure they all are these days, but they were being taught all about the revolution, breaking free, about liberty, about the amazing constitution that those brilliant minds put together.
		So, yeah, I think it is deeply ingrained within the American people.
		Of course, you know, through welfareism and other problems, you know, there is a growth of the leftist ideology, but it is still a small activist minority.
		And what you've got to do is to reach out.
		You know, there's something like 30, 40 percent, 40 percent who just don't vote in American elections.
		And yet their lives are being directly affected by what has happened.
		We got Brexit.
		We got Brexit.
		We won that referendum because two and a half million people who literally never voted in their lives came out because they believe they can make a difference.
		And I think if the Republican candidates can get that message out.
		And it's not just the negative message, but it is genuinely about how they can make life better for people.
		You've gotta mobilize those that don't normally vote.
		And I think America's history does lend itself to that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		We're gonna link obviously to the tour down below, but what are you doing?
		What are you actually doing on the tour?
		I mean, are you just giving speeches?
		Are you going up with other politicians?
		What are you doing?
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm basically going to, Activist groups and in some towns we go through that might be 30 people meeting in a bar and other events, you know I'm speaking at events in Arizona where
		That's in a couple of weeks time where, you know, 500 of book tickets already and I've no doubt it'll be a lot bigger than that on the day.
		But I'm meeting the people who give of their time, their love, their energy, people that really care.
		And I'm going out and meeting them in their thousands and trying to re-motivate them, trying to get them out of.
		And when I sit and talk to them, they are very, very down.
		Very, very down indeed.
		So I'm trying through the Brexit, you know, the Brexit example, And also the immigration issue, to explain to them that, you know, a huge victory may not be too far away.
		So that's the main emphasis.
		Obviously, I'm doing media, various other things like that.
		But really, this is about getting out with Freedomworks and meeting these people who did such a great job.
		I mean, just look at the House, you know, where the party picked up seats.
		And I've met congressmen and women who say, look, we love this organisation because when we need help, when we shout, keen people arrive.
		So it is about motivation.
		And it's also, too, I want to raise an issue, which is most people in and around politics I think that the grassroots bit doesn't really matter.
		And it's the least glamorous bit of politics.
		But I know from all the races that I've been involved in, and particularly when we got Brexit back on track, I know that a good grassroots campaign is the absolute key.
		Because remember this, on the left side of the debate here in America, you've got the trade unions, you've got many of the students, they have an army on the ground.
		And at the moment, I don't believe the Republican Party does have one of Sufficient scale and sufficient size.
		So I'm trying to push that argument that everybody can help.
		It's no good just turning up and clapping somebody.
		You've actually, if you believe in this, you've got to commit that you're going to do something.
		And it doesn't matter if you're 97 and sitting in a wheelchair.
		You can still do something.
		You can still make some phone calls.
		There are still things that everybody can do.
		And if you really do want to save your country from hard left socialism, Sitting around and complaining isn't the answer.
		Positive attitude, energy, and action.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it's kind of funny that you ended up, you did the Brexit thing, and now you're here doing this, and it's like, there'll probably be something else that you'll be fighting for in 10 years?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You don't strike me as someone that will ever retire.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't have thought so for a moment, no.
		No, I mean, I like campaigning.
		At the end of the day, I think the most important thing we can all do as human beings, and as early as possible if we can, find out what you're good at.
		Find out the one thing in life that you're good at and pursue it.
		And I'll be honest with you, there are lots of things I'm terrible at.
		Lots of things I'm hopeless at.
		But I've always... I like people.
		I'm very gregarious.
		I'm very social, as you mentioned earlier on in the chat we've had.
		And I love going out.
		I love going out, meeting groups of people.
		And I think I can do my little bit.
		Perhaps to spread a little bit of inspiration, a little bit of optimism.
		So no, I'm going to go on fighting for these conservative causes across the English-speaking world.
		And so I'll do stuff in the UK.
		I'll do stuff here.
		I can't wait to get back to Australia to do more stuff down there.
		As for New Zealand, I'm not quite sure where we stand there, given that they've now basically sold their souls to the Chinese Communist Party, which should be a warning to all of us.
		So no, I love this.
		I love campaigning, I love life, and yeah, I'm gonna keep on running.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, Nigel, I love this interview.
		So I hope I can join you on tour at some point in the midst of this thing.
		We're trying to coordinate a couple of things, but I think the message that you're bringing is exactly what Americans need to hear right now.
		It's kind of funny that it's coming from somebody from the UK, but we'll take it in this strange time.
		So I wish you luck with everything.
nigel farage ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		And remember this, culturally, the UK and America have never ever been closer.
		You know, my kids watch American television.
		Taxi drivers here talk to me about Downton Abbey or The Crown.
		NFL is now very popular in England.
		Soccer is becoming popular here in the USA.
		And just a final thought on this.
		When Donald Trump was on tour, you know, make America great again, emphasizing those three words made in the USA, everything had to be American.
		And as Air Force One appeared on the horizon and the music started to play that was such a big feature of the Trump rallies, what music did we get?
		Well, we got David Bowie and Elton John and Phil Collins.
		And actually, it's difficult with popular music now to tell whether it's British or whether it's American.
		So perhaps a Brit coming here, giving this message is not quite as strange as people might first think.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		We'll take it.
		We'll take it.
		Nigel Farage, thank you so much.
		And we're going to link to everything right down below.
		If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about international issues instead of nonstop yelling, check out our international playlist.
unidentified		And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, check out our full episode playlist.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		They're all right over here.

▲