Yeonmi Park details her harrowing escape from North Korea's 1993 famine, recounting how she and her mother were sold for $65 and $200 respectively, endured rape, and trekked across the Gobi Desert to reach South Korea. After facing discrimination there and moving to the US, she critiques Hollywood and mainstream media for appeasing China regarding human trafficking, drawing parallels between American cancel culture and North Korean oppression. Ultimately, Park argues that true freedom requires holding Beijing accountable for its regime support rather than silencing dissent through fear of social backlash. [Automatically generated summary]
Joining me today is a human rights activist, author of In Order to Live, A North Korean Girl's Journey to Freedom, and someone that I'm honored to call a friend, Yeonmi Park.
Well, I do consider you a friend and I'm thrilled you're here because your story is just absolutely incredible and you've become a fighter for so many of the things that this show is about.
So, let's just start at the beginning.
For people that don't know you, let's just do your biography.
Just tell me your story and then we'll go from there.
I mean, she is the only living family that I got from all of this.
Because I spoke out against the dictator, all my three generations of my family back in North Korea sent to prison camp or been executed because I'm speaking
out.
So I'm not still free from the dictator.
There are still consequences for me having a voice.
South Koreans, they discriminate against Southeast Asians, like Vietnamese, Thai, Filipinos, North Korea is also a poor country.
I don't think they discriminate people as much when they come from France or Europe or Western Europe or like USA.
But they do that when people are coming from a poor country.
So even though we are the same people, when I went to South Korea, they were just making fun of my accent because I was speaking with a northern accent.
And you know, they were asking me, like, are you a spy?
Why are you talking to me?
And it's like, if I were a spy, why would I even escape?
So, what put you on my radar was a few months ago a whole bunch of people started sending me a video of you talking about your adventure and your journey and everything else, and you happened to mention that you read Don't Burn This Book and that it helped you in some way, which is I don't even have the words to explain my gratitude for that.
I mean, it's just beyond imagination considering what you've lived through, but in essence, you are now here in the United States.
Do you consider yourself an activist first?
Like, what do you consider yourself now, really?
You're an author, obviously, and you're out there fighting all these battles, but what do you consider yourself now?
Like you come here and you see the sort of fear around talking, not just about North Korea, but we talked about this a little bit a couple of weeks ago, just that you see the way we are afraid of speaking up here in the freest country in the world about whatever it might be.
So that's like what I only discovered last few years.
I've been keep trying to talk to people, and as soon as I talk about that my experience in China has been human trafficking, all of that, they were like, oh, I cannot put my name on that.
And it's all behind doors.
Everyone's like, oh, I cannot, like, I care about what you do, but like, I can never, like, support you on this.
And they have no problem supporting, like, a lot of other causes.
And also though, I work, I mean, my movie has been trying to make and other movies were being made already.
And these major production companies gave money, and then as soon as they were purchased by Disney and other platforms, they just dropped the sponsorship, and they said, I cannot show this movie.
So when you see, like, you know, there was the big controversy six or seven months ago with the NBA players that wouldn't criticize China, and yet they'll tell you how racist and everything else America is, it must just blow your mind.
I mean, but even though it blew my mind, I couldn't speak out because I was scared, you know?
Like, they are gonna, what, how am I gonna, like, I need to fight for my people.
What if all this country gonna make me a CIA spy and blah, blah, you know, being a racist, all of that, like, how do I even get a chance to fight for my people?
Maybe I still need to be like, somehow being acceptable to them.
But like, and real, I was robbed in Chicago this year during the summer unrest.
And I was punched by these two black women.
And then, and And then I was trying to ask them, like, can you, like, I was asking people to help.
Three black women were like pushing me to call and punching me and then they start calling me a racist and like they're holding me down so they can run away so I cannot call the police on them.
And that's like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe that I have a son in this country.
So what do you make about what's happening in the United States?
Because one of the things we were talking about a couple of weeks ago is that the chill around free speech, that just people are, you said to me, I think this is exactly what you said, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I mean, you said this is right now feeling like what it felt like.
Never, like before I say always, like first thing my mom taught me was not to whisper.
Because the birds and mice could hear me in North Korea.
And now, I'm saying the same thing, like trying to teach my son, like, when he cross the, like, walk, walkway, and, you know, like, cross the walkway, there's, like, white man, like, walking sign.
And he's, like, queer, so, of course, for him, it's, like, white collar and man looking.
So, I said, white man, I can't walk.
And people looking at him, like, you cannot say that name, like, you know.
I'm, like, always teaching him to be, how not to be attacked.
And, like, this is what exactly my mom did to me.
Also, what I see in America is that when I was born in North Korea, I was like the third generation of this oppression.
I didn't even know what the alternative was like.
But my grandmother knew.
She was living under the Japanese colonization.
Before Kim, she lived that life.
And people at that time who knew what was different existed, they stopped and they kept silent.
And by the time when it came to us, we didn't even know that we were slaves to the dictator.
And that's the thing.
People say like, why there's no revolution in North Korea?
And I was like, how do you fight when you don't know you're a slave?
So when you see that now, The way we're afraid of speaking up and the mob's gonna get you and cancel culture and we have these lockdowns and we don't spend time together on Thanksgiving and all of these things.
Does that strike you as just the perfect storm of all of these bad ideas that could lead us to something like North Korea?
I mean, I know it sounds crazy at some level and yet here we are.
So the thing is that I used to think democracy was winning and like, you know, those older like communist socialist countries were falling apart.
But it's not anymore.
Look at China.
We would use new advance of technology.
And North Korea, as I said, they are getting this AI recognition while they can't even afford food to people.
They're bringing all these machines from China to surveillance people.
And that's like what I'm seeing that, you know, we cannot take freedom for granted because it's a very fragile thing that we got.
And look at China, like China's system is not going anywhere.
And that's what I'm scared in America is all this technology censorship and this mainstream and you have to somehow conform to their idea and otherwise you get destroyed.
So it is, I mean, at least talking about it, it's going to be a good start.
I think that's what Trump elicited, like he was, even though he messed up with what, when he negotiated with Kim Jong-un, at least like he made a point about how China is responsible for so much problem in this world.
And, you know, the problem in here right now, like if, as soon as I talk about how China sponsors North Korean dictatorship and how they're enslaving human beings right now, not like a few centuries ago, like they're slaves right now, slavery happening in China.
But like that just get buried.
And I think that's what's important.
American government should inform people what's happening and how CCP is, you know, committing crimes against humanity.
Yeah, when you hear people talk about Donald Trump and they'll compare him to Kim Jong-un or they compare him to these worst dictators of all time and here you are in America, we're in a particularly weird time at the moment, potentially in between administrations or maybe not, nobody even knows, but we just had elections and obviously we'll find out how legitimate they were and all of that stuff.
But when you hear those direct comparisons, when they're made about Trump, what does that make you think?
It's just unbelievable ignorance of the people who actually dare to compare Trump to Kim Jong-un.
There's no comparison on this earth.
There's no absolute comparison.
Almost makes... That's the thing I used to talk about, like, media was so busy making fun of Kim Jong-un and his haircut, and how ridiculous this whole harmony kingdom is.
I mean, something so funny, you lose the gravity of seriousness of the issue.
And it's like, they are so easily comparing to anybody to Kim Jong-un or Hitler.
It's like, there's no comparison.
That is like a line that we should never cross because then we don't realize how evil it is.
I mean, maybe also it shows a sign that they never have seen like true evilness.
It's so maddening that even I have to talk about North Korea, but I need to choose a political side.
Talking about the real effects, how China is committing crime against humanity.
And then as soon as I talk about like how we need to challenge China and talk about freedom of speech in this country, then it's like, oh, you're like ultra right wing.
What do you make of the sense where, like just where we're at in America, forgetting the election, just generally, like, you know, you mentioned some, some of the negative things that have happened to you, but obviously something truly incredible things have happened to you at the same time.
So yeah, I've been also starting my YouTube channel and like, I was doing live and talk about how pure socialism can be so poisonous, can never work.
And of course, I'm sure you know that YouTube demonetize our videos, right?
And I was wondering like, how like, any idea should be up for debate.
I thought that's what freedom meant.
And here we have this like, Cause of like where we have to, I mean, I went to Columbia in New York and how it felt like for me going through another four years of oppression there.
Like they talk about oppression of white men, but there's another oppression that they cannot see.
And I think that's why I just don't know like how even to fight.
I feel like I came to America like four or five years ago.
We weren't, I promise you, we weren't always this crazy, but we need people like you to help us find the way again.
I mean, that's why I wanted to have you on the show, because you've lived through this stuff.
You've lived through it.
And then when I saw the video, and you're somehow referencing my book, and I'm going, this is crazy.
I mean, you've lived through it.
I'm talking about this stuff at the ideal level, although I fear that Most of the things that I was worried about in the book are starting to become true.
It's, uh, I mean, until I didn't get robbed and seeing people, how they're like, you know, this is something you would read, like, on the, like, conspiracy theory, like, news sites.
These people were standing on the Michigan Avenue in Chicago, like, 2 p.m., like, during the day, near the Macy's, and police cars were nearby.
And these people seeing me being punched, And calling me a racist because they only see, only thing they could see was a color in their eyes.
The other girl, black, I was like Asian, that's all.
And that's like when I thought like, oh, this is like not, it's not like I'm trying to honor people.
This is a complete gone madness.
And I don't even know how to go back to the like, the middle zone where some sanity like hoards.
Yeah, you sort of referenced this a little while ago, but the idea that if you talk about these things, Freedom, free speech, all of the things that you've just described here.
But if you talk about them, you're suddenly thought of as like right-wing, that this is now a right-wing thing.
Things are so hard, like how they are just so easy to call names now, right?
They're so busy making new names for people and then holding them into this little box.
And it's been very challenging.
Actually, all my friends were like, you are fighting for North Korean people.
You cannot do this.
You cannot talk about any of these problems.
Just stick with North Korea.
But in order to serve North Korea, I need to serve China first.
The problem of North Korea, the root is Chinese regime, the Communist Party.
It's not Kim Jong-un.
Kim Jong-un can never survive one day without Xi Jinping.
So how do I fight this massive fight without letting people know what's happening and what China is doing to the humanity?
And then as soon as I, of course, criticize mainstream media for not like highlighting this issue, then, you know, I'm becoming a white, extreme, like crazy person.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting when people ask me what I love most about doing this show.
It's this right now, because think about, like, our lives are so different, came from such different places, and the things that you care about are the exact things that I care about.
Like, it's actually incredible how these sort of eternal ideas just end up bringing us together.
Yeah, I mean, I think freedom is something that we can... I think that's what I'm so, like, scared for going to Colombia is like they don't understand like like people when you're born with like two arms you never know what it feels like living without two arms and these people like at Colombia keep like wondering about what would it be like without like freedom right they have no clue what it's gonna be without it and they keep trying to experiment this new idea and there's like no I mean I know what it feels like living without this like rights and freedom and why are you trying to keep
Abandon them.
Our ancestors fought for our freedom of speech.
And they bled their blood for it.
Freedom is not free.
There was a price they paid for it.
And now because they got it for free, they just don't want to see what it feels like without arms.
And it's not that great.
Your life is going to be so miserable.
And I think that's what shocks me and horrifies me, how ignorant and This evil, this like ignorant idea he is.
Can you also talk a little bit about how it's not just like the the bad actors that spread these ideas but how the average person just kind of gives up?
Like what you saw in North Korea when you were a kid and then China when you were a little bit older about how the average person just sort of checks out because that seems to be the stage that we're in right now here.
Do you think there were people in the North Korean system or even in the Chinese system today that just selected out, that just disappeared from any sort of public life whatsoever, or just their families just disconnected from the world in a certain way?
Because I do sense that we're going to start having a movement Well, I mean, at least in America we have that room for doing that, right?
out of control here. People will be so afraid to say anything that I think a
lot of celebrities are just gonna disappear. I think a lot of people with
the means to do it are just gonna disappear. But I also think just regular
people will figure out ways to just not have anything to do with anything that's
public. Well I mean that's at least America we have that room for doing that
right but in North Korea you can't. Like if you literally get executed if you
read the newspaper that has Kim's face on it.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
That's how insane it gets later.
Like, North Korea, I think, is almost like the perfect example of where we're going to end up with if we are going this route of, like, keep pushing people and to make them, like, think the one way, right?
Like, there's no diversity of thoughts.
They don't allow that.
Like, they talk about diversity, but It's not about diversity of ideas.
And North Korea always push that no diversity of thoughts.
Like one idea always hold the truth.
And in China, at least there's some distance, but you never meet,
you never hear about distance in North Korea 'cause they got zero tolerance for any dissent.
They just Persian right there, we do like all their family members
That's something I have been trying to more like tackling the symptoms of the dictatorship, which I was trying to work with the NGOs in South Korea to rescue defectors like myself.
Right now, if you have $2,000, you can rescue one North Korean defector from oppression to freedom.
That's what I have been doing, and also I've been trying to get information inside North Korea As I said, there's no other information and trying to get North Korean people understand that they are slaves, that they are oppressed.
But the thing later I realized I cannot be just keep rescue people.
This is not going to ever change North Korea.
In order to change and bring down the dictatorship, I need to get China to convince and they stop the sponsorship of this dictatorship.
So that's why I began starting my YouTube channel and trying because like no newspaper pick up my story.
As soon as I talk about China, they don't pick it up.
They drop that line, and I can never talk about how crucial it is to solve North Korea.
Whenever people say, like, how can I help North Korea?
And there are many ways, but the main way is raising awareness about Chinese regime's role in this.
So they stop repatriation of North Korean defectors.
So North Korean defectors are not like other Syrians, other refugees.
They have a country try to accept them, which is South Korea.
South Korea has their constitution say that anyone who was born in Korea is a potential citizen.
So when we escape from North Korea to South Korea, we become citizens automatically.
All China has to do to help North Koreans is that they don't catch us.
We are not even asking China to accept us and stay there as refugees.
They just have to let us go through to South Korea, to Mongolia.
It's not that hard.
It doesn't cost them anything.
But they don't want to do that because they don't want the regime to collapse.
And this is what I really want to highlight.
We need to somehow make the campaign so China doesn't do this most barbaric repatriation policy against North Korean people.
And they stop this human trafficking.
Right now, if you go to Baidu and Chinese Google, tons of information about how to buy a North Korean girl.
It costs like $900 right now to buy a girl.
And while we are busy talking about slavery that happened hundreds of years ago, it's happening right now.
All right, Yanmi, for people that wanna follow you, that wanna help you, because I think you're gonna get a nice burst of people right now, where can they follow you?
What's your YouTube channel like?
Let's blow up the Yanmi Park brand right now, come on.
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