Oct. 4, 2020 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
57:44
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I'm just so used to being attacked for everything I say. | ||
| It's like, at this point I'm like, alright, what are you going to do? | ||
| Are you going to call me a mean name? | ||
| What would that feel like? | ||
| What would it feel like to see myself called something horrible in every newspaper in the country? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh wait, I've done that. | |
| As always, guys, make sure you're subscribed to our channel and re-subscribe when YouTube unsubscribes you. | ||
| And joining me today is a best-selling author, a TV host, a journalist, a mother, a dog lover, and a newly minted podcaster. | ||
| Megan Kelly, welcome to The Rubin Report. | ||
| Hey, so good to be with you. | ||
| A newly minted podcaster, Megan. | ||
| You're Dipping your toes in some new waters. | ||
| We're gonna talk about everything, but let's start there. | ||
| You're getting back in the fight. | ||
| What are you, nuts? | ||
| You know, I'm excited. | ||
| I thought when I left NBC that I would just sort of, maybe I'm just skipping my new life. | ||
| I would just take it easy and I would take care of my kids, which was very enjoyable and remains so, because they're at good ages right now. | ||
| And, you know, maybe I'd be like a lady of leisure. | ||
| See how that went. | ||
| And then I tuned out from the news, which was helpful. | ||
| And then, bit by bit, it started to pull me back in. | ||
| And I started to read more and more and more. | ||
| And all hell broke loose in our country. | ||
| And the culture wars really just make my head spin. | ||
| And the one thing that really made me want to get off the couch over the time that I had off was the movie No Safe Spaces. | ||
| And I was glued to my chair watching it. | ||
| And I cried. | ||
| And I thought, I have to get back out there. | ||
| There aren't enough people who are saying the things that need to be said. | ||
| There's too many people who are being silenced just for having a dissenting voice, a reasonable but dissenting voice. | ||
| And if you have the opportunity to get to a microphone and have those discussions, you better do it. | ||
| So here I am. | ||
| So since I was in No Safe Spaces, can I fully credit myself for bringing Megyn Kelly back into the fight? | ||
| Is that fair? | ||
| You and Adam and Dennis and Ben and Mark Joseph, the producer who I came to know over the years. | ||
| And he's just, he's so unsung as an amazing filmmaker. | ||
| You know, he's doing in Hollywood what nobody else is doing, which is trying to shed a light on some conservative causes, some just even center or center right issues. | ||
| And I'll just give you one quick example, Dave. | ||
| When I had my show on NBC, he called me up and he said, I have Suzette Kelo. | ||
| From Kelo versus Connecticut, you know, the case that went all the way up to the Supreme Court, and it was an eminent domain case. | ||
| Does the state have the ability to grab her little pink house, even though she doesn't want him to have it, under eminent domain, like they need it? | ||
| And she, everybody on my team was like, who? | ||
| Huh? | ||
| Right? | ||
| They weren't into it. | ||
| And I was like, I want her. | ||
| So we put her on, and Mark was the connection. | ||
| It was the highest rated segment we had the entire time on NBC, by far. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That guy is tapping into something. | ||
| Americans want more stories about the little guy. | ||
| They don't live and breathe Hollywood celebrities. | ||
| Anyway, I love Mark Joseph and I love that movie. | ||
| If your audience has not seen it, it's available now online. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is so worth your two hours. | |
| Yeah, well, you've also been through your own version of what we were talking about in the movie, which is the cancel thing and the mob and all that stuff. | ||
| But, you know, we've gotten to know each other a little bit in the last year, so I didn't have to do major research to talk to you right now. | ||
| But I did scribble down a couple things here. | ||
| And one of them that I wrote down was that how you're getting back into the fight and it's sort of like the mafia pulling you back in. | ||
| And you just said you were sort of reeled back in by this thing. | ||
| And is that sort of how you feel about the news? | ||
| Like that you love it, but then also you kind of need to escape and then it just sucks you back in either way? | ||
| Yes, because the thing for me is I have never been a political person. | ||
| And so I was never jazzed up just by politics. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like I used to look at Charles Krauthammer and the way he was just, he loved politics and he wrote about it the way like it was the most important thing ever. | ||
| And as somebody who is raised sort of non-ideological, not even watching the evening news, we watch the Jeffersons. | ||
| I was like, you know, I don't know. | ||
| I like covering the news and I like talking about politics to the extent it's news, but not just beating up politicians and battering around issues just to make an hour on TV. | ||
| And what happened to me was I started watching more and more of the news. | ||
| And of course, we had political fights going left and right, but I was not so interested in getting back to cover the latest fight between George Conway and President Trump. | ||
| At all. | ||
| But the culture wars, what's happening in our society, what's happening legally. | ||
| I mean, right now, it's like, this is right in my wheelhouse, everything that's happening with the Supreme Court. | ||
| And just more and more like the erosion of our freedoms, which is, you know, I've practiced law for 10 years. | ||
| It's a noble cause for which to fight. | ||
| And you'll get called names and you'll get beaten up and it'll be very brutal. | ||
| But there are so many people who are on your side. | ||
| And I'm not saying You're against all the things that you're talking about, but you're talking about them. | ||
| You're talking about them. | ||
| I feel like that's what inspired me to get back out here. | ||
| Let's talk about the Jeffersons. | ||
| George would probably be a Republican, right? | ||
| Like he was a successful business owner, you know, moved on up to the East side. | ||
| He'd probably be a Republican. | ||
| You're probably right. | ||
| He did build that. | ||
| Although, I don't know, Marla Gibbs, the maid, I don't, she was my favorite. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| She'd probably give him a hard time for it. | ||
| Oh, she would. | ||
| That was Florence. | ||
| She would definitely give him a hard time. | ||
| Speaking of New York City, you are actually in New York City right now. | ||
| What the hell is going on in New York City right now? | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| It's like, you know, to me, it's sad because I've lived here. | ||
| I mean, off and on, I've lived here for 15, 17 years. | ||
| We moved to the Upper West Side because it had become a neighborhood. | ||
| It had become a safe place where you could raise your kids and you could stroll down the sidewalks and with good schools and, you know, cute little bodegas where you could just go and get a bagel, whatever. | ||
| And in like a year, our mayor ruined it. | ||
| I mean, you really have to tip your hat to him because it's not easy to wreck New York, but he did it. | ||
| And I mean, we're going to come back. | ||
| I don't believe for one second that New Yorkers are going to lie down and stay lying down. | ||
| But boy, this mayor has given us quite a quite a fight because the city is totally different than it was just before I left for quarantine. | ||
| I mean, it's depressing. | ||
| It looks like 1970s New York where I came all the time because my nana lived here. | ||
| It's like it's not even just there is obviously a massive homeless problem on the Upper West Side in particular where I live, because he moved. | ||
| He filled three hotels up here with homeless people without any plan. | ||
| One third of them were convicted pedophiles. | ||
| And it's like, well, you know, maybe we could have used a heads up on that, | ||
| a plan on how to deal with it. | ||
| No, he didn't. | ||
| It's like walking down the street and just hearing so much profanity, | ||
| which I like a good swear just as much as anybody else. | ||
| I try not to drop them in front of my kids, in front of my seven year old. | ||
| But vulgarity too, Dave. | ||
| It's just like, I'm gonna take the F in this and I'm gonna do this to you. | ||
| You know, somebody in the cell phone talk. | ||
| It's like, I'm so sad about it. | ||
| I feel lost. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, I used to live on the Upper West and when I've gone back over the last couple of years, every time I go back, I'm like, ah, it's a little worse than last time, a little worse than last time. | ||
| And now I haven't been back since lockdown, but I told you my, my sister and her, 100%. | ||
| He has such a low approval rate here in Manhattan. | ||
| It's under 25%, I think, according to the latest poll I saw. | ||
| The Democrats have turned on him. | ||
| The Republicans have never been a fan. | ||
| between what's happening on the ground there and the fact that de Blasio's policies | ||
| are actually what caused it? | ||
| Yeah, you think they do? | ||
| 100%. | ||
| He has such a low approval rate here in Manhattan, it's under 25%, I think, | ||
| according to the latest poll I saw. | ||
| The Democrats have turned on him, the Republicans have never been a fan. | ||
| I remember having him on my show on Fox when he was running and he was last in the polls. | ||
| This is back when Anthony Weiner was supposed to win that mayoral race. | ||
| Don't get me started. | ||
| And I remember saying, city advocate, what the hell is that? | ||
| Nobody ever heard of you. | ||
| You have no chance. | ||
| And he was like, I got a chance. | ||
| I could do it. | ||
| Like, what do you do as city advocate? | ||
| I still don't understand. | ||
| But I do know now. | ||
| He and his wife are talking about, you know, layoffs and furloughs and yet his wife still has her $140,000 a year speechwriter. | ||
| She's got her videographer following her around while the trash bins are overflowing on the streets of New York. | ||
| The restaurant owners are suffering. | ||
| These mom-pa shops, which are already suffering under him, have now gone out of business with no hope of coming back. | ||
| So, you know, I hope she gives a really good speech because we're all paying for it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, exactly. | |
| So you mentioned that the culture war is partly what's what's bringing you back. | ||
| And I remember watching you on on Fox, you know, years ago. | ||
| And what I liked about you was that, well, you just first off, some people just know how to talk to the camera, like you just know how to do it. | ||
| First off, was that just always very natural to you that you could just be yourself just like that? | ||
| No, no, I would not say that. | ||
| I mean, if you go back and look at some of my earliest hits on Fox and I was on ABC local, In D.C. | ||
| prior to that. | ||
| They're very stilted. | ||
| They're pretty stilted. | ||
| I always say about television, it's like typing. | ||
| The more you do, the better you get. | ||
| The smoother you get. | ||
| But you cannot get to 70 words a minute without doing 20, 30, 40. | ||
| So I always tell the young people who are coming up behind me, who want to be good on TV, just practice. | ||
| Just say yes to every hit. | ||
| There's nothing that's below you. | ||
| Do it and do it often. | ||
| Do it even when you don't want to do it. | ||
| And then one day you wake up and it's not hard. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| I look back and I'm like, man, 20 years ago when I was like a struggling comic, I was doing, you know, 4am radio hits. | ||
| And it was like, I was like willing to absolutely do anything. | ||
| And I look back and I'm like, why was I doing that? | ||
| But I, I guess maybe it worked at some level, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It ships in the bank. | ||
| And honestly, even just the exercise of getting on your feet, you know, like comics have that experience, which is so helpful. | ||
| And I as a lawyer had that as well, which was helpful. | ||
| But like, you got to keep doing it. | ||
| That's a muscle that needs exercise, like getting up there, making your point. | ||
| I used to practice on a little phone like I'm looking into right now. | ||
| And I would pretend to do a television hit, you know, like there was a fire down on 54th today. | ||
| It was just made up news, fake news. | ||
| And my rule for myself was I couldn't stop. | ||
| So no matter what, if I stumble, I have to do 60 seconds on the fake fire. | ||
| And it was very helpful because usually you can stop and you can have a redo. | ||
| And as you know, on live television, you cannot. | ||
| All right, let's see how seasoned you are right now. | ||
| Give me 60 seconds on that fake fire. | ||
| I think it's on 62nd and West End. | ||
| On 62nd and West End, it came to a halt today as firetrucks came to the scene within two minutes of the first 911 call. | ||
| The blaze turned into a four alarm fire, putting lives at risk. | ||
| Yet the FDNY did what it always does, saved lives and protected the community. | ||
| More as we get it, back to you. | ||
| Oh my God, a true professional. | ||
| You haven't lost it. | ||
| You haven't lost it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| So anyway, so I remember truly, I remember watching you on Fox and it was like, you had that thing with the camera, but also I think what you said before is right. | ||
| Like you didn't strike me as someone that was consumed by the political thing. | ||
| And yet now it seems like everyone, not just people in the world that we're in, everyone everywhere, sports world, fashion world, doesn't matter what world. | ||
| You could be a shoe shiner. | ||
| You could be a, you know, selling, you could be working at Petco. | ||
| It doesn't matter what it is. | ||
| Everything is freaking political right now. | ||
| I know you kind of see that as, as much of a danger as I do, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's my worst nightmare. | ||
| It's my worst nightmare because what I love and one of the reasons I love practicing law was debating issues. | ||
| I like to be persuaded. | ||
| I'd love to be told that I'm wrong and then be brought over to the other side. | ||
| I know you do, too. | ||
| Because I'm open minded to being wrong. | ||
| You know, I always say I'm a learn it all, not a know it all. | ||
| And now it's just I listen to some hard partisans. | ||
| You know, I listen to certain podcasts and so on. | ||
| And it's interesting and it's sort of like a tickler, like this is what it's like on this side. | ||
| But I always end up thinking, I just don't want to be that person. | ||
| I'm just not at heart, this hard partisan person. | ||
| I'm not, I wouldn't describe myself as a moderate though, because I have strong points of view. | ||
| You know, I, what I believe, I really believe and I feel strongly about, but so I'm not kind of wishy-washy, but I also feel no loyalty to either side. | ||
| I'm not, I'm certainly not a loyal Democrat. | ||
| I've been a registered Republican, but I'm a registered independent now. | ||
| I've been a registered Democrat too, by the way, and I just, I look at these parties and I'm like, yeah, you don't represent me, but you know, I'll take what I believe in from both sides. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And yet everyone seems to have to make a political statement about everything constantly. | ||
| So if you had to, if you had to describe your political beliefs right now, like where, what, what is that? | ||
| What are they? | ||
| I mean, I would say I'm, I'm center right on a lot of issues. | ||
| I'm, I'm center left on some other issues. | ||
| I took a test online that says like, what are you, you know? | ||
| And when I, when I, yeah. | ||
| And you, it said I was a conservative Republican and I was like, and then I had Doug, my husband take it. | ||
| And it said, he's a conservative Republican. | ||
| And we're both independents who have voted for Democrats and Republicans, you know, like throughout our lives. | ||
| So I just think the country's moving so far left to some extent. | ||
| The things that used to be center left or even center are now right, established right. | ||
| So I don't know when that happened, but I would still vote for a Democrat if I saw the right one. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| I'm certainly not down the party line Republican. | ||
| There are a lot of them who I don't like and I voted against. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So what was it like for you to sort of be someone that was supposed to be talking about the news, but also for a lot of the time you were you were kind of making news. | ||
| I mean, everyone knows what happened with Trump and the debate, but that you sort of got sucked into news, too. | ||
| And in the movie, there's a line where Nicole Kidman, as you basically says, you know, no, no, no. | ||
| Sorry, Charlize Theron, where she says, you know, that she, you, basically saying, you know, you didn't wanna be making the news. | ||
| I assume that's pretty much how you feel. | ||
| I didn't wanna be the story. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I said, I'm not gonna be the story, and I don't wanna be the story. | ||
| And I was the story after that debate, and then I hated it. | ||
| And I have hated being the story every time it's happened. | ||
| You know, I see the journalists as, you know, on the sidelines, not as players on the field. | ||
| And, um, you know, Trump to some extent grabbed me and put me on the field and the Roger Ailes thing did too. | ||
| And then just, I don't know, once you get well known, you know, the sleazy media takes a big interest in you and starts following you around and they're not all bad. | ||
| Some guys are good. | ||
| There was actually a sweet guy right after I left NBC, all these paparazzi were outside of my apartment and, um, you know, I couldn't like leave without getting, and, uh, this one guy, he was from the post. | ||
| He got his shot. | ||
| He's like, and then he goes, This is such bullshit, Megan. | ||
| You can't say anything anymore. | ||
| There are real people out there. | ||
| They're not all bad, but I don't like being the topic of the news. | ||
| I have asked myself many times why that keeps happening. | ||
| I think people aren't used to seeing somebody they can't figure out, somebody who's sort of unapologetically strong, especially a woman. | ||
| We're out there. | ||
| It's not that common. | ||
| And a woman who doesn't mind fighting, right? | ||
| It's like, what's she doing? | ||
| But I'm pugilistic by nature, and I think it may be exciting, it may be upsetting, it may be alienating, but for whatever reason, it's attractive news. | ||
| Yeah, it's funny to me because as you're getting back into the fray, it's so obvious there's gonna be a moment within a couple months Where something's gonna happen, like you're gonna say something, or one of your guests is gonna say something, and you're gonna be like, ugh, why did I get back in? | ||
| But then an hour later, you'll be like, this is exactly why I got back in. | ||
| Like, that's just the negotiation. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't think that's going to happen to me. | ||
| I mean, I do think they're gonna come after me, you know, knives out, but I'm just so used to being attacked for everything I say. | ||
| It's like, at this point, I'm like, all right, you know, what are you gonna do? | ||
| You gonna call me a mean name? | ||
| What would that feel like? | ||
| What would it feel like to see myself called something horrible on every newspaper in the country? | ||
| Oh, wait, I've done that. | ||
| In a way, it's sort of empowering because it's like they took their best shot. | ||
| I'm here. | ||
| I'm well. | ||
| I'm happy. | ||
| I'm about to launch something that I'm really into. | ||
| And for once, Dave, like they can't get rid of me. | ||
| They can't get rid of me. | ||
| You know, like even if every sponsor I have is like, we're out, then I'll do subscription. | ||
| You know, the relationship will be between me and my audience. | ||
| And they can't stop it, whether they want to or not, they can't stop it. | ||
| I will have my say, I will have these discussions with interesting, provocative people, people who go against the grain, and if the audience is there, I will remain on the air. | ||
| You're speaking my language, sister. | ||
| I may be able to retire early now that you're getting back in. | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| We're gonna go off to the sunset together, and the digital sunset. | ||
| Ah, the digital sunset, there you go. | ||
| All right, so let's talk a little bit about just like generally what's going on in the world right now. | ||
| You know, the racism stuff, the riots, the protests. | ||
| We'll get to COVID in a sec. | ||
| What do you make about what is happening here? | ||
| It seems to me that we're just sort of watching the entire fabric that we've had here for 200, you know, almost 50 years. | ||
| basically unravel that that just sort of this idea that this whole thing was founded on racism and that's the driving force behind everything. | ||
| It strikes me as so dangerous and yet it's so sort of accepted which is kind of what you were saying before about that that the left seems to have taken so much control of this stuff. | ||
| What do you make of what's happening right now with race and the conversation? | ||
| Well, I think it's very frustrating for people like me, like you, who would like to be allies to people of color, to black people, anybody who feels ostracized and suffers from racism. | ||
| And yet there's no way in without somehow completely embracing the insane messaging from a group like Black Lives Matter. | ||
| I think most normal people believe there is racism in the country, but that we are not a racist country. | ||
| And they don't believe we were founded on racism. | ||
| And even the New York Times with its 1619 project is slowly withdrawing all those claims from its piece without highlighting the withdrawal. | ||
| They're just like, oh, that stuff we said about being founded on racism and the whole point about keeping slavery, never mind. | ||
| Eraser. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Which is so dishonest, so dishonest for a news organization. | |
| For a news organization not to call attention to the deletion, that's a massive deletion, and it caused a lot of controversy, and they're just slowly taking it down. | ||
| It's not true. | ||
| The country wasn't founded to hold on to slavery, and it isn't a racist country. | ||
| It did used to be. | ||
| You know, I mean, back in slavery, Jim Crow, we had massive problems. | ||
| But the thing that bothers me about what's happened over the past few months is it's based on a lie. | ||
| It is based on a lie, not the George Floyd case. | ||
| That was disturbing. | ||
| And that case will play out appropriately in the court. | ||
| But the lie that police are systemically and as a group hunting black people, it isn't true. | ||
| And even, you know, I think that was the term LeBron James used, you know, something about a black person or black man can't even go outside where they're getting hunted. | ||
| Wrong. | ||
| And the data are there and the people who cite the data get just so maligned. | ||
| But if you look, like here in New York in the 1970s, the murders per year, the shootings per year were in the 400, 400 plus. | ||
| A couple of years ago, they were down to like 36, right? | ||
| So it's like the behavior is going in the right direction. | ||
| There are some bad apples. | ||
| We all know that in any profession there are, right? | ||
| Certainly in our profession. | ||
| If you look at the actual data of the number of black unarmed men, because it's always men, who get killed by police, compared to their number of interactions with police, their crime rate, it's not disproportionate, right? | ||
| Because the studies will show, and Jason Reilly of the Wall Street Journal, who is black, has been doing a great job covering this, that over 50% of the violent crimes are committed by black men. | ||
| And that is why they have a higher interaction rate with police in part, and therefore the stakes go up, right? | ||
| The stakes go up for, because given the history between them, it's fraught, for a negative encounter and then for potentially something deadly to happen. | ||
| I'm not saying it's good. | ||
| I'm just saying you can't attribute it to racism without factoring in crime rates. | ||
| Yeah, so do you think that the Democrats have sort of gone too deep on this kind of stuff? | ||
| This is where, you know, for someone like me that used to be a left, you know, I was a lefty, I was a Democrat, the whole thing, where it's like every message that now pretty much comes out of the left is, this is a racist nation, this is racism, racism, racism. | ||
| And then the average person, if you cite any of those studies or if you read any book by Thomas Sowell or listen to any talk by Larry Elder, they'll somehow tell you that, you know, well, they'll actually call those guys sellouts or Uncle Toms or something else. | ||
| But then even the fact that you've cited them, they'll use as proof of your racism because you found a black person that agrees with you. | ||
| And it's almost like there's just nothing left to talk about. | ||
| It's very depressing, actually. | ||
| I mean, I think for, you know, me and you, like, I don't really care. | ||
| Like, it's fine. | ||
| You can call me whatever you want to call me. | ||
| I'm going to say what's true. | ||
| I am going to say the facts. | ||
| And if you don't like the facts, you don't have to listen to me. | ||
| Great. | ||
| You can go, you want to write, write up what I said, good, bad, or ugly. | ||
| Go for it. | ||
| That's just more exposure of my worldview, but you don't have to listen. | ||
| Um, I, I think it's more problematic for, you know, the civilians, if you will, right. | ||
| People who don't, Engage in punditry for a living because they're scared. | ||
| They've genuine. | ||
| I would say like the most disturbing part about the end of my time at NBC was the message it sent to, you know, the folks on the street, which is you say one quote, long thing, you're dead. | ||
| You know, you're dead. | ||
| And that is just not the country most of us want to live in. | ||
| You know, it really upsets me when I see what's happening with teenagers, you know, like these teenagers who are getting their lives ruined. | ||
| Because they say and do stupid stuff, just like we all said and did stupid stuff. | ||
| And no more, in today's day and age, you're done. | ||
| Yeah, so I don't wanna rehash all the past stuff in NBC and all that, but I did see recently when Kim Klacik was running for a representative for, I think it's District 7 in Baltimore, she was on The View, she got into it with the ladies, and a little bit of a cat fight started, and she basically said, well, Joy, talking to Joy Behar, you know, you've been in blackface, And you had a pretty clever tweet about the sort of double standard on this stuff, that sort of, if you're a lefty liberal, you can kind of get away with not only being in blackface, but also pretending that the whole black community, as Joy said, sort of supports her, where it was a little different for you. | ||
| Well, I think what Joy was arguing was that she was never in blackface because she intended her blackface Halloween costume To be an homage to black women. | ||
| That's what she said. | ||
| It was an homage. | ||
| And you know, it's funny because I remember people saying very clearly when I tried to discuss this issue about whether there could ever be an instance where you were trying to honor someone where it might be acceptable and all hell broke loose. | ||
| And so I was waiting. | ||
| I was waiting to see you. | ||
| She works for ABC. | ||
| I was waiting to see a report on World News Tonight. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like like they did with me on GMA, like they did with me on NBC. | ||
| NBC was totally interested in my comments, but I didn't see Lester Holt covered Joy Behar's comments. | ||
| And yet the whole world gave a very strong message that you may never you homage. | ||
| No, intent is not relevant. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| And even just last week, Chris Rock was saying intent is relevant in talking about why he forgave Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon for playing him with blackface on. | ||
| So anyway, I of course, there's a double standard. | ||
| You know, it's like you got to live with it. | ||
| You can't just like boo-hoo, but it's kind of fun to call attention to it because they just can't get out of it. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| The left is like the media is so dishonest and I really make no distinction between the left and the media. | ||
| They're other than Fox. | ||
| So that's actually kind of where I wanted to go next. | ||
| So what do you make of just generally like the state of journalism? | ||
| even center or independent outlets, they're all left. | ||
| So that's actually kind of where I wanted to go next. | ||
| So what do you make of just generally like the state of journalism? | ||
| Well, first off, do you consider cable pundits and all of the faces? | ||
| And even, you know, what I do and the other people that are doing this on YouTube and everywhere else. | ||
| Like, do you consider all of us journalists? | ||
| Like, I don't consider myself a journalist. | ||
| I'm telling people what I think. | ||
| I'm interviewing people. | ||
| But I'm not out in the field, you know, collecting information and reporting on it. | ||
| I can read a story and process it and tell people what I think. | ||
| But I think a lot of people think that Don Lemon is a journalist. | ||
| Like, I don't consider him or Chris Cuomo a journalist. | ||
| Or even Tucker, I don't consider a journalist. | ||
| Do you think that even matters, what we're calling them? | ||
| I think it matters. | ||
| I think there's still a distinction between journalists and pundits and opinion journalists. | ||
| That's another sort of category. | ||
| I think the problem with somebody like Lemon or Cuomo is they're not honest about it. | ||
| They actually think they're straight news journalists. | ||
| So, I'm told, is Rachel Maddow. | ||
| She thinks she's a straight news journalist. | ||
| And I've got no beef with Rachel Maddow. | ||
| It's fine. | ||
| She can say what she wants every night, but let's not pretend It's fact that it's journalistically sound. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| And you need look no further than her coverage of Russiagate for proof of that. | ||
| I think it's amazing that they'll put those guys on CNN out there at a presidential debate as moderators, trying to pawn them off to the audience as straight news guys. | ||
| You know, they are not straight news journalists. | ||
| They're not. | ||
| And even Fox would never use Tucker for a presidential debate. | ||
| But Tucker, he is a journalist. | ||
| He's got a background in journalism, but he's morphed over to the opinion side, right? | ||
| But his background is in journalism. | ||
| But I think he's morphed over to the opinion side, and he doesn't make any, you know, secret of that. | ||
| Fox News would never have Sean Hannity sitting there anchoring a presidential debate, or at least they wouldn't have when I was there, because they understood you got the journalists, you know, like Harris Faulkner and Brett Baier, who do journalism, journalism-ing. | ||
| And then you got the opinion. | ||
| Journalism-ing. | ||
| Journalism-ing, and then you got the opinion folks who are great at what they do. | ||
| Yeah, do you think journalism can come back? | ||
| I mean, you probably see me do it on Twitter all the time, but every time I have to write the word journalist or journalism, I have to put air quotes around it because it seems just so absolutely far gone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't have a lot of hopes for it. | |
| I gotta be honest. | ||
| I don't know that it can. | ||
| You know, more and more we're moving into this land where there's no demilitarized, let me try to say that again, there's no demilitarized zone. | ||
| You know, it's like people are, they're forcing you to pick a side. | ||
| And, um, I don't think that, I'm not sure people really even want, you know, crazy sort of uncle Walter. | ||
| He wasn't crazy, but you know what I mean? | ||
| Like the sort of, let me tell you the news. | ||
| Anymore. | ||
| I think they kind of want spin. | ||
| They want a little bit of their worldview reflected. | ||
| And I actually think that that's why some of the Fox News journalists do so well. | ||
| Like, if you watch Bret Baier's program, he understands who his audience is. | ||
| It is not a newscast that reflects what you read in the New York Times, right? | ||
| This is what I used to do on the Kelly file. | ||
| So you understand who you're programming to, right? | ||
| But then you discuss the news in a way that's truly fair and balanced. | ||
| So it's not diminishing or dismissive. | ||
| of either side, the way it always is if you see anything discussed, | ||
| especially cultural issues on these other channels. | ||
| Like when was the last time you heard MSNBC discuss homeschooling in any way other than with disgust | ||
| or the second amendment or religion in the public square? | ||
| You know, they're disgusted by people who believe in those things and it shows. | ||
| So anyway, I don't have high hopes for it. | ||
| I see us getting more and more partisan and retreating to those corners. | ||
| Yeah, look at you on the upper west, the liberal haven of the world, | ||
| and you're willing to talk about those things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Gutsy. | |
| You know, I've been here for a long time. | ||
| I used to, when we first got to the Upper West Side, I said to my husband, Doug, you know, do you think it's really as liberal as they say? | ||
| And at that moment, this is back in 2006, I think, or whatever, around there, at that moment, there's a woman walking by with a t-shirt that reads, kill Cheney first. | ||
| I think I have my answer. | ||
| It's like, it really is like a comedy routine. | ||
| You walk down the block here and it's like, would you support Greenpeace? | ||
| Would you support Planned Parenthood? | ||
| Would you sign this thing against Trump? | ||
| Register to vote. | ||
| You know, fascists. | ||
| It's like, take care. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bye now. | ||
| It's so funny, I remember living up there, and I would go to Zabar's on Sundays to grab a bagel and lox, and outside, you know, they'd have those book guys outside, just with the old books. | ||
| And basically every book, it was when George W. Bush was president, every book was like, he's the devil, he's evil, he's evil. | ||
| And I remember even thinking back then, even though I was really more in that line of thinking, I remember thinking, something's not quite right up here. | ||
| Oh my God, you go into our local bookstore. | ||
| It's actually our children's store, but it's got a lot of books. | ||
| And the whole wall of books is like, even before Ruth Bader Ginsburg died, it was like, RBG, The Notorious, and, you know, all Michelle Obama, and, I don't know, Hillary Clinton, and then Chelsea Clinton, and it was like, you know, strong women, and like, I never saw Condi Rice, you know? | ||
| Like, they just, it's, look, this is their politics, and that's fine, they can have their politics. | ||
| So far, we've all gotten along respectfully. | ||
| There's a turn, there's been a turn, where it's like, Suddenly, you know how it is, if you're not like a left-wing Democrat, these leftists, I don't think normal liberals are like this, but these leftists, they think you're a racist, you're a bigot, you're a xenophobe, you're a sexist, and that's just that. | ||
| Yeah, and then they start showing up to, you know, people sitting, having dinner outside, and next thing you know, we got even bigger problems. | ||
| But speaking of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, so I know we are holding this for a couple days, so I don't want to get into the... Hold on, while you say that, I'm just going to grab a glass of water. | ||
| Oh, I thought you maybe had like a little doll of Ruth Bader Ginsburg or something with you. | ||
| I don't know where we're going with that. | ||
| I do have a fun song about her, though. | ||
| If you Google it, there's one on YouTube that goes, Will you marry me? | ||
| Ruth Bader Ginsburg, you're my favorite justice on the Supreme Court. | ||
| My son found it in doing some homework project. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| We've really turned politics into something strange. | ||
| You're going to cut this part out, aren't you? | ||
| No, we are not. | ||
| We do not edit. | ||
| And I hope that the Megyn Kelly show also will not edit. | ||
| Are you going to edit for content? | ||
| We don't edit for content. | ||
| Why didn't you tell me that? | ||
| I wouldn't have said half this shit. | ||
| I don't know, if I say something stupid, I hope we take it out. | ||
| Actually, I don't even know the answer to that, Dave. | ||
| I haven't made a philosophical commitment not to edit, so we'll see. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| The only time, actually, that we edited for, you know, we've edited out if someone had a coughing fit or something like that. | ||
| Only one time did we edit for content, and I don't want to say who the guest was, but let's just say, well, I will say it was a she, and she was extremely high and extremely drunk. | ||
| And I probably saved her career by editing out about 45 minutes of the interview. | ||
| And if someone was to really think about it that has watched all the Rubin reports, they could probably figure it out. | ||
| And I'll tell you after. | ||
| Oh good, I was just gonna say, I'm gonna go back and search all of the old ones just to find out. | ||
| Yeah, but speaking of Ruth Bader Ginsburg and everything that's going on with the Supreme Court right now, you tweeted out something that I thought was just like so, you framed it so correctly. | ||
| Which is that you basically said, and you can clean it up for me, but in essence, you were saying like, look, everybody's sort of a hypocrite here, and you can sort of catch everybody saying the reverse when they're not in power, but this is just how politics works. | ||
| It just sort of is. | ||
| And I think that's what most people, I think, kind of see right now. | ||
| It's like, we can all look back on videos of Biden saying the reverse, and Harris saying the reverse, and McConnell saying the reverse, like it's cross the board. | ||
| But then there's also just like the reality of politics, and if you've got the power, you're gonna use it. | ||
| These people doing jujitsu to try to say McConnell isn't changing anything, you know, because what he said the one time, but not in all the other interviews, was that when it's divided government, when it's like a sitting Democrat in the White House and the Republicans, and then now the senators are coming out like, well, here's all the numbers, here's the number of times that, look, It's a reversal by the Republicans. | ||
| But cry me a river for the Democrats who are upset over it because they are the ones who started this judicial war. | ||
| I've been following the court for a long time and practicing law for a long time too. | ||
| And this started back when they borked Robert Ford. | ||
| Prior to that, the standard was to confirm any reasonable jurist, you knew Republican presidents | ||
| were gonna pick conservative leaning justices, Democratic ones were gonna pick more liberal leaning ones. | ||
| And in the end, it balances out. | ||
| Then Robert Ford came up and they said, "No way." | ||
| He's too conservative. | ||
| He's not getting on. | ||
| And that was the first time that changed. | ||
| And then Miguel Estrada, who was a star lawyer who they wanted to elevate. | ||
| The Republicans wanted him on the D.C. | ||
| Circuit Court of Appeals. | ||
| And the Democrats were quoted as saying they were afraid of him because he was this dynamic Hispanic Rising star in the Republican Party. | ||
| And they didn't want him because they knew he'd make it to the Supreme Court someday. | ||
| And they held up his nomination, his confirmation hearings, for two years to the point where the guy finally had to say, I withdraw. | ||
| Like, I got to get on with my life, support my family. | ||
| They started that. | ||
| And that's why later Mitch McConnell started to slow roll Barack Obama's judges. | ||
| That led to Harry Reid saying, I'm doing the nuclear option. | ||
| Screw you. | ||
| We're getting rid of the filibuster. | ||
| The Republicans stood up and said, if you get rid of the filibuster on lower court judges, we're going to do the same to you on Supreme Court judges if we ever take power in the Senate again. | ||
| Then the American electorate put the Republicans in charge of the Senate, and Mitch McConnell was true to his word. | ||
| I mean, it ain't beanbag, right? | ||
| It's ugly, and it's going to get even uglier. | ||
| I don't predict anything kind or good happening over the next six months when it comes to the Supreme Court. | ||
| Yeah, do you sense there's any way we can get out of this thing? | ||
| I mean, putting aside whether it's just about Supreme Court, just like everything, that everyone feels so crazy all the time, that politics is everywhere all the time, that it seems like half the people want to burn it down and the other half, according to them, are all racists anyway. | ||
| Do you see a path to getting out of it? | ||
| Sadly, I think the only thing that would do it anytime soon is some sort of national tragedy. | ||
| And I don't mean COVID. | ||
| I mean a war. | ||
| Obviously, I'm not wishing for that. | ||
| I'm just saying it takes something truly massive like that to bring the country together. | ||
| And as tough as corona has been, it too has been politicized. | ||
| And it hasn't had the horrific shock value in an instant the way, say, a 9-11 did, or I'm sure Pearl Harbor did. | ||
| Where you're just like holding on to humanity and looking at your fellow human beings with a little bit more kindness. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I've often thought, OK, Trump is definitely such an unusual leader. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And he's divisive, of course. | ||
| But I don't think this goes away if Donald Trump loses this election. | ||
| I think Trump was definitely a result of our increasing partisanship. | ||
| And, you know, the Republicans wanted and needed a fighter. | ||
| And they're not really concerned that he doesn't speak the Queen's English and isn't necessarily, you know, the perfect husband. | ||
| And, you know, he's he's had some moral failings, of course. | ||
| So I don't think even if he if he's gone, whether it's Joe Biden or somebody else, another even another Republican in the office, it gets better until we're reminded of what matters. | ||
| Why do these people have so much time? | ||
| And I can say this because I'm a woman. | ||
| To focus on their gender, right? | ||
| Like, how they're being discriminated against as a woman. | ||
| How, like, I know they'll say, because we are, you know, we're victims. | ||
| I don't believe that, because I have other women to talk to, and I have other black men to talk to, and I have other trans friends to talk to, who don't run around looking for ways in which they've been victimized all day, every day. | ||
| They're strong, they lead their lives, they suffer some adversity, like we all do, time to time. | ||
| They forge forward, they take life lessons from it, they move on. | ||
| The amount of navel-gazing that goes on in figuring out what identity do I have that will allow me to embrace the victim ideology is a total waste of time. | ||
| Yeah, well, it's miserable, it won't get you anywhere. | ||
| And look, even for you, it's not that being a woman in the news business is the easiest thing. | ||
| I mean, bombshell is sort of about that. | ||
| But you pretty much just kept moving forward, and it basically worked. | ||
| Well, I don't, I've never liked to think of myself as a victim, and I recognize that doesn't mean I've never been one, right? | ||
| Like, I had a terrible stalker, a felonious stalker in my life who went to prison for a very long time after he stalked me, and I have been bullied by some very powerful figures, but I never call myself a victim. | ||
| I always call myself a target, right? | ||
| Like I was a target of that stalker and I was a target of certain people. | ||
| And that's fine. | ||
| I can get past that. | ||
| Eventually you're not a target anymore. | ||
| And the more you get ensconced in that woe is me ideology, even if you deserve it, even if you do deserve empathy and you have been victimized, the worse it is for you. | ||
| You know, it just leads to a constant cyclone of negativity, sadness, anger around you. | ||
| And you've got to, as a gift to yourself, pull yourself out of that. | ||
| I don't know, I don't care if it's cognitive behavioral therapy where you just got to think of a picture of your dog. | ||
| Like, do whatever you need to do to get yourself out of that. | ||
| When you don't, it leads to bad things in your life. | ||
| Your happiness level goes down, not up, right? | ||
| If you just think of yourself as victimized all the time, So I don't, I don't understand why more people don't get that. | ||
| I think people are sort of looking for a reason to feel victimized, to find their posse, you know, like to feel like they're bonded to other people in the same position. | ||
| I think this is why women get mad at me when I won't say I'm a feminist. | ||
| You know, they, they want me in the posse and they don't get my stiff arm on some of their favorite words. | ||
| Um, but I find the other, the opposite worldview much more conducive to success. | ||
| Yeah, your kids are pretty young, but do you sense that ideology leaking into their world, either through school or whatever messages they're getting or friend groups, whatever it is? | ||
| Very much so. | ||
| And Doug and I are really trying to counter-program that. | ||
| You know, it's like, my son, Yates, went into school this past year, last year. | ||
| One of his best friends is black. | ||
| His parents are friends of ours. | ||
| And these two guys are just buddies. | ||
| Now they're just buddies. | ||
| They just hang out, they have playdates. | ||
| And by the end of the year, the messaging to the black child was basically, you've been oppressed. | ||
| Your parents, your ancestors have been oppressed since the beginning of time. | ||
| And the message to my son was, and you are the oppressor. | ||
| And they're sowing division where none existed. | ||
| These are just sweet boys who love to be with each other. | ||
| And by the way, this other little boy's parents Didn't appreciate that either. | ||
| It wasn't, you know, a white black thing. | ||
| It was just a divisive thing that doesn't help anybody. | ||
| Um, I've, it's been painful to me, you know, it's, it's really been painful to watch because I, I see it like my daughter's best friend is, um, she, she's black. | ||
| She's her, her mother is white. | ||
| Her, her father's black, but she's mixed race, but they, they don't see color. | ||
| These girls, they, they go out, they do fun things. | ||
| You know, Yardley wouldn't even, Remark on this girl's skin coloring in describing her to anybody, but all around us, people are trying to make her notice, to know that there's a difference between them and that it's awful. | ||
| And that, you know, one person's distant, distant, distant relatives, or maybe not even their relatives, but just people who had the same color skin did something awful to, you know, people who share the other skin color. | ||
| And I just, I don't see I don't see how that's helping. | ||
| I believe much more in the Martin Luther King dream of seeing the two, you know, the black kid and the white kid walking down the street holding hands, because it was happening. | ||
| It's still happening. | ||
| Yeah, well, I know you know this, but according to critical race theory, it's not enough to be not racist. | ||
| You have to be actively anti-racist. | ||
| So your daughter not seeing color, they would argue, I mean, this is in the critical race theory literature, like they would literally argue that that in and of itself is racism. | ||
| Because that status quo upholds the structure by itself. | ||
| I mean, I think the only response to that is, bite me. | ||
| It's absurd. | ||
| That is absurd. | ||
| And if you're listening to that nonsense, good luck. | ||
| You can't have an honest conversation if it begins like that. | ||
| Yeah, speaking of nonsense, we talked a little bit about Trump and you were obviously in the midst of it. | ||
| I mean, obviously he's struggling with the effects of old age, to put it charitably. | ||
| You can see it. | ||
| of the Biden situation, do you think he's okay? | ||
| I mean, obviously he's struggling with the effects of old age, to put it charitably. | ||
| You can see it, there's really no denying it. | ||
| And it does at times feel like the Democrats are really just trying to get him over the finish line. | ||
| Like, did you see the woman, the liberal woman, when she heard that RBG died and she sent out this video? | ||
| It's spectacular. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And she's like, Ruth, you had one thing to do. | |
| You just had to get through to January of 2012 or 2021. | ||
| She was so upset. | ||
| I think that's kind of how a lot of Democrats are looking at Biden. | ||
| Like, just STFU and get him over the finish line. | ||
| Just get him to just shut up. | ||
| Not happening. | ||
| No one gives a damn that he can't put the words together. | ||
| Like he's going to sign the right laws. | ||
| Harris is going to make them and we'll be fine. | ||
| Like he's a hell of a lot better than, you know, scary orange man. | ||
| That's that's how they see it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I do wonder whether it would be a Harris administration either secretly or, you know, soon if Biden wins. | ||
| Doesn't that seem like such a bizarre plan though? | ||
| Because I'm kind of with you that I think that was the plan, but they didn't expect him to break down this quickly. | ||
| And I don't even know who I mean by they, because it's like, who are they? | ||
| Are we talking about the DNC or are we talking about like the Clinton machine or whatever that is? | ||
| But I think they didn't expect that the collapse, his sort of mental state was going to just collapse so quickly. | ||
| But then doesn't it seem odd that they would choose Kamala Harris, who was polling at like 3% within her own party? | ||
| And was out way faster than many of the other candidates? | ||
| Like, it just all seems so bizarre. | ||
| I think this is, you know, they're very committed to identity in the Democratic Party. | ||
| And again, I do make a distinction. | ||
| Some of my best friends are Democrats. | ||
| They don't think about this shit. | ||
| They don't think about any of this. | ||
| So what makes them Democrats then at this point? | ||
| Because that's what I'm trying to figure out. | ||
| Issues. | ||
| Because you know I have those friends too. | ||
| That's the world. | ||
| So what kind of issue is a sensible Democratic issue to you? | ||
| Or what would they say? | ||
| No, so my two best friends in the world live in the Midwest. | ||
| One lives in Detroit and one lives in Chicago. | ||
| And one's a Dem and one's a Republican. | ||
| And my Democrat friend, you know, she's pro-choice. | ||
| She's pro-Obamacare. | ||
| She's pro-environment. | ||
| She doesn't mind expansive government, right? | ||
| She thinks the government has a meaningful role to play in helping the poor and the underprivileged. | ||
| But when it comes to these cultural issues, She's kind of like, oh, stop it. | ||
| Stop it. | ||
| You know, like, we're all normal. | ||
| We don't need to obsess about this stuff. | ||
| And it's not just, you know, race. | ||
| It's like race and gender and all the stuff, all of the isms that people are latching onto right now. | ||
| And I would say my Republican friend there is kind of the reverse of her on some of those issues, but lands in the same spot. | ||
| And just when I think of my Democratic friends, they're like her. | ||
| They're like my friend in Detroit. | ||
| They're not obsessed with this stuff. | ||
| But the left has gotten so loud and they've gotten control of such large and important cultural institutions that they're having their way. | ||
| You know, they're having their way. | ||
| And I know like Douglas Murray's been saying, that's why people need to speak up. | ||
| You know, the silent majority needs to speak up. | ||
| And I realize easier said than done, given the cancel culture we're in. | ||
| But until we get to the point where people stand up and say, I'm not going to let you do that to my child, or I'm not going to let you do that to me. | ||
| I'm not gonna let you, he says, you should stand up at your workplace that's trying to make you swallow critical race theory and say, I refuse to allow you to re-racialize my company, my city, myself. | ||
| But man, that's gonna take guts. | ||
| Yeah, there's, since you mentioned Douglas, one of his best lines is he says, one day the barbarians will be at the gate and we'll be debating what gender pronouns to call them. | ||
| And I think that's just like, It's such a perfect summation of the whole thing. | ||
| Like, there are real problems out there, and instead we've decided to debate gender pronouns, and that's not to be dismissive of trans people. | ||
| I mean, you have to say that because you're worried they're gonna come for you, you know what I mean? | ||
| It's like, I have such a long record of standing up for trans people. | ||
| I have a trans person in my family. | ||
| I got nothing against trans people, but the trans people I know, they're upset By the hard, vitriolic responses the trans community has when you don't want to change the spelling of women. | ||
| You know, they're like, what the? | ||
| And it's like, who are these trans activists? | ||
| Who are they speaking for? | ||
| Because, you know, there's a trans woman in my family. | ||
| She wants to be called a woman. | ||
| She doesn't want a different an X in the name, she doesn't want you to, | ||
| she doesn't want to have to declare her pronouns. | ||
| The whole point of transitioning over was, right? | ||
| So it's like, and I realize not everybody feels that way, but like the people who speak the loudest | ||
| would have you believe this is how it has to be. | ||
| There's any divergence. | ||
| If there's any discussion of, you know, the monopoly of choices and the consequences, you're bad. | ||
| That isn't true. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| I want to, uh, I want to finish up by talking about your podcast a little bit and what, what you're going to be doing. | ||
| And, uh, I think I'm going to be on one of the first episodes. | ||
| I hope I don't muck it up for you. | ||
| That would, that would be pretty terrible. | ||
| Uh, but real quick, because we only mentioned COVID for just a second. | ||
| And since you're in New York and I'm in LA, so these are two of the sort of most locked down places with You know, mayors that seem to be more than happy to keep us in this perpetual state forever. | ||
| What's your basic take about COVID at this point? | ||
| Like, what should we be doing? | ||
| Should Trump have done more? | ||
| Can we just leave it up to the states? | ||
| Are we ever going to end all this, the whole shebang, Megyn Kelly? | ||
| Well, we're definitely gonna end it all. | ||
| We are. | ||
| That sounds ominous. | ||
| It's all gonna end. | ||
| What do you know? | ||
| It will end. | ||
| Um, and I think it'll end, you know, relatively soon because I do think they'll find a vaccine. | ||
| People will take it. | ||
| Um, that'll calm the nerves. | ||
| They're getting better at treating it. | ||
| That's good. | ||
| You know, we're making progress. | ||
| We have some of the best medical minds in the world in the United States and they're all working on it and outside the United States too. | ||
| Um, you know, I'm, I'm torn on this because we lost people we love to COVID and I know it is, it's real, you know, it's, it's real and it can be brutal. | ||
| Um, but you know, there's also an overreaction that's kicked in that's gotten kind of out of hand, you know, and I, I look at my seven year old who thankfully is in school, but all day with the math at recess has to run with the mask on. | ||
| And I, I I'll take it and we'll do it. | ||
| Cause I'm grateful that the teachers are there and this is the price we pay for getting into school, but I don't think it's necessary. | ||
| I don't think, I think that's too much. | ||
| And I think. | ||
| You know, walking around New York City, you have to have a mask on on the sidewalk. | ||
| I don't think that's necessary. | ||
| I think if you can socially distance on the sidewalk, you're fine. | ||
| You know, I think we have to find a way of going through the crisis instead of just trying to go around it. | ||
| There's just we're not going to permanently be able to go around it. | ||
| And I just think the massive economic destruction that's happened has been downplayed or ignored or mocked in a way that's also really hurtful. | ||
| I look at my favorite restauranteurs here who are really struggling and, you know, we make donations, but it's teaspoons in the ocean. | ||
| That's not going to do it. | ||
| And, you know, there's sort of a collective shoulder shrug. | ||
| So I guess my overall take is I wish we had found a way to protect the vulnerable, you know, seniors, people, people who are immunocompromised and to forge forward more robustly earlier on so that we could have staved off some of the economic pain. | ||
| I think that the deaths, then the numbers should be lower, | ||
| but they were coming. | ||
| Trump didn't invent this virus. | ||
| They were coming, it's a thing. | ||
| And unfortunately, it has its favorite targets and those people need to be really careful, | ||
| really careful. | ||
| And some of them I love, I have in my family. | ||
| Anyway, so that's sort of a meandering answer, but it's a complicated issue. | ||
| And I think people who are like, Open back up, no masks, that's it. | ||
| I think that's too extreme, right? | ||
| But I think shut down, stay shut down, you know, no restaurants, no schools, masks everywhere. | ||
| That seems too hysterical to me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| What do you think about just like the social costs? | ||
| Like one of the things that I think about a lot is That the fact that we're all wearing masks, like if I go to the supermarket now, I'm usually in a baseball cap, sunglasses and a mask. | ||
| So in effect, you can't see any part of my face, which at some level it's nice because sometimes people come up to me and that way I can be like totally anonymous, which is nice. | ||
| But like we sort of don't look at each other anymore. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like even if you don't have sunglasses on, this thing that you can't read someone's face. | ||
| I noticed that this a lot with cashiers. | ||
| Like, cause I really do try to, it's one of the things that I really worked on in August when I was off the grid of just like all my interactions being as like valuable as they could even just with, with random people. | ||
| But like even cashiers, like you've no longer, no one smiles. | ||
| You don't see smiles anymore. | ||
| And I'm worried that when you then add social media to it, how we're all on our computers all day and our phones, and then you take away like another part of the human element, that that's like leading us to something else that's seriously dangerous. | ||
| You've been off the Upper West Side for too long, because no one smiles at you here in New York. | ||
| I haven't noticed a single difference. | ||
| If you're the one smiling at everybody, you're weird. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're weird. | |
| Yeah, you're the weird guy. | ||
| So it's been no problem at all. | ||
| We're just sort of holding steady here. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think the problem is much bigger than you just pointed out. | ||
| I think, you know, you hit on it a bit, which is the technology and how that's dividing us. | ||
| And we've willingly signed on to those kinds of lies for too long. | ||
| I am convinced that a backlash is coming. | ||
| That the iPhone will be put down by millions of people because it's done a ton of damage, especially to our kids. | ||
| And I think, you know, the loss of the bowling league and the church groups and, you know, sort of the clubs, um, has been a real loss to America because it's loss of connection and caring and, you know, willingness to take care of one's neighbor when he falls. | ||
| Um, you know, the mask, I don't know, it's temporary. | ||
| And I think people get over, it's kind of annoying. | ||
| Um, my friend was saying she was upset because her son has acne. | ||
| And it's aggravating the acne. | ||
| And all I could think back to was my high school years when I had bad acne, and I would have loved a mask, but it's like, oh, it's the safe thing to do. | ||
| The grass is always greener. | ||
| All right, well, I think we got a sense of it, but what is the Megyn Kelly show gonna be about? | ||
| You're doing this thing, you're doing three days a week, is that right? | ||
| Yeah, we're gonna start with three and see how that goes. | ||
| And it's going to start not with audio. | ||
| We're just going to not with the video. | ||
| We're going to start with only audio, which I think will be kind of fun. | ||
| You know, it's like I had the microphone, the headphones on the other day and it just felt kind of cool. | ||
| It just feels pretty cool to be in charge. | ||
| Um, so the, I, I want to do what people like you are doing, Dave, you know, I want to have open, honest conversations about tough issues and be fearless in doing it. | ||
| I really do. | ||
| And I think one, That's a good thing, for better or for worse, about being me. | ||
| For whatever reason, they tend to write a lot of headlines about my news coverage. | ||
| And that's good, right? | ||
| That's good. | ||
| Because I want people to come on the show and get headlines. | ||
| I want people to start seeing that it's okay to talk about the difficult issues. | ||
| And in fact, if you actually want any buy-in, you've got to let the people weigh in and just do it fearlessly and relentlessly. | ||
| That's what I want to do. | ||
| All right, well, we are gonna put a link to the Megyn Kelly Show podcast right below. | ||
| And Megyn Kelly, like a true broadcast professional, I'm gonna let you sign off this episode of The Rubin Report. | ||
| Take us home. | ||
| This is Megyn Kelly reporting live on The Dave Rubin Show. | ||
| See you next time. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about the media instead of non-stop yelling, check out our media playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, check out the full episode playlist. | ||
| They're both right over here. |
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