Sept. 27, 2020 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
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| I knew that at some point he had to admit that he was going to use it. | ||
| But I said, why not now? | ||
| And he said, it's not ready yet. | ||
| This isn't the time yet. | ||
| So I think what he is preparing for is something really big on election night. | ||
|
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[Music] | |
| I'm Dave Rubin and this is the Rubin Report. | ||
| Quick reminder, everybody, to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you actually get notified of our new videos. | ||
| And joining me today is a former New York State prosecutor and judge, host of Justice with Judge Jeanine on Fox News, and author of the new book, Don't Lie to Me and Stop Trying to Steal Our Freedom. | ||
| Judge Jeanine Pirro, welcome to The Rubin Report. | ||
| Well, it's a pleasure to be with you on the other end, actually, and I really appreciate you plugging my book right off the bat. | ||
| In fact, I have it right here behind me, right under Don't Burn This Book. | ||
| So as you can see, you know, it's a 50-50 here. | ||
| People will decide your book or my book. | ||
| Probably your book, Jusha. | ||
|
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No, no, no, no, no. | |
| This is gonna be all about your book. | ||
| And I have to tell people a couple insider things before we fully start here. | ||
| Because although we have not met in real life yet because of this COVID ridiculousness, I've been doing your show a bunch and I feel like we have this kinship, even though we haven't actually broken bread yet or anything. | ||
| And one of the things that strikes me about you is I do a lot of the Fox shows. | ||
| And on no other show does the host call the guest before, but you call me when I'm on, usually on Saturdays when you're live, you call me in the afternoon, you ask how I'm doing, and then you always say, and what's on your mind? | ||
| What are you thinking about? | ||
| What's going on? | ||
| And that strikes me as just very different than how all of cable news is done, that you're just really interested in talking about what people really care about. | ||
| Is that fair to say, Judge Jeanine? | ||
| How was that for a first question? | ||
| Well, well, first of all, it was, it was very informative because I have no idea how the other people do their shows on Fox. | ||
| But what I can tell you is it, maybe it's my background that speaks to who I am. | ||
| I am a little different from those people on Fox. | ||
| I mean, I've been a prosecutor, a judge and a DA for 32 years. | ||
| I ran for office five times. | ||
| I mean, I have a different background and a different skillset. | ||
| And to this day, I'll say, I need a good witness for this one. | ||
| And you know, it's not a witness, it's a guest, obviously. | ||
| But I really think it's important that people come on a show and talk about what's important to them. | ||
| And as long as we have an intersection where it's important to me, and I believe then to the public, that that's your passion. | ||
| You know, that's what you're interested in. | ||
| Then you literally jump off the screen. | ||
| Because to me, passion is everything. | ||
| I've long believed, and I tried jury trials, I was a litigator for many years, and it's what moves me. | ||
| It's what moves people. | ||
| So I didn't know any of that, or that other people didn't do that, but I always like to get a sense of what you want to talk about and where your head is. | ||
| I don't rely on other people to screen my guests. | ||
| That's not what I do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do you like doing the TV stuff more than being a prosecutor or being a judge? | ||
| Or do you just think it's exercising like a different skill set or something like that? | ||
| Well, you gave me a great out right there, exercising a different skill set. | ||
| But the truth is the best job in the world was being a prosecutor, Dave. | ||
| I mean, without a doubt. | ||
| And I'll tell you why. | ||
| I don't mean a prosecutor in the sense that, you know, you're out there and, you know, locking people up. | ||
| No. | ||
| Being a prosecutor to me, was about making victims whole again, at least to the extent that you can. | ||
| It might even be just the victim's families. | ||
| But you know, when I first started prosecuting crimes, I became an assistant DA in 1975, which, you know, my kids will tell you that's when they wrote the laws on stone tablets and stopped counting my age. | ||
| I see your eyes. | ||
| And it was like, Well, the victims were nothing more than an element of the case, the people of the state of New York against John Smith. | ||
| All right. | ||
| But to me, the victim was the reason we were there. | ||
| The victim was a person who never chose to be a victim, who never chose to be part of the system in the first place. | ||
| And so my energies were trying to make that victim whole again, whether the victim was a five-year-old who had been raped and didn't know the language, you know, just said, peachy pie, my honey bun. | ||
| And teaching them with anatomically correct dolls how they could communicate with a jury or a senior citizen who ended up losing her house because she was a victim of economic crimes. | ||
| So that to me was my passion and I did it for many decades. | ||
| I went to the bench because to be a judge, you know, it's supposed to be the citadel of the practice of law. | ||
| Hogwash. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| I felt like a referee. | ||
| I felt that when I was a judge sitting on the bench, you know, I would sustain an objection, overrule an objection. | ||
| They'd come up to me and they'd argue. | ||
| And I wanted to be in the fight. | ||
| You know, it's not really my personality. | ||
| So I had a 10 year term. | ||
| And after three years, I said, I've had enough of this. | ||
| And I ran for judge. | ||
| I was the first woman judge in the history, a county judge in the history of the county. | ||
| And I said, I can't take this anymore. | ||
| This is too slow for me. | ||
| And I remember that I had, uh, I spoke to the chief administrative judge and I said, you know, judge, if you, while I'm taking a plea with one defendant, if you could bring, have the court officers bring another defendant out of the bullpen, his lawyer can talk to him. | ||
| And then as soon as this plea is over, he's ready to plea or whatever the motion could be. | ||
| And I thought I was so sharp, right? | ||
| And I moved things along. | ||
| I said, I could handle twice the cases. | ||
| And his response was, are you trying to make the men look bad, Janine? | ||
| And, you know, I didn't take it personally, but I thought to myself, whether this is sexist or not, doesn't matter. | ||
| This is not the speed that I work at. | ||
| So I stepped off the bench and I ran for district attorney because I was a fighter. | ||
| I started the first domestic violence unit in the country. | ||
| You know, first hate crimes unit in the history of my county, sex crimes unit, and worked with, you know, John Cardinal O'Connor and trying to make sure that everyone was covered under hate crimes. | ||
| It wasn't just, you know, gender and ethnicity and color, but sexual orientation as well. | ||
| And as president of the DA's Association, John Cardinal O'Connor, who was beloved in New York, Went in and supported that and it became part of New York law. | ||
| So where I saw problems, uh, I was able to move the legislature. | ||
| If I had enough support, believe me, I don't think singularly I could, but I could do something to try to make a difference where I saw victimization. | ||
| I would go out there and publicly say with the advent of the internet, your kids cannot use the, the, the PC as a babysitter. | ||
| And I started the first internet pedophile sting operation in the nation. | ||
| And we arrested doctors, lawyers, priests, coaches, school superintendents, CEOs, you name it. | ||
| And it was very satisfying for me, but I gave that job update because I felt that I had done it enough. | ||
| And it was kind of like my own self-imposed term limits. | ||
| But without a doubt, it was the best job in the world. | ||
| So what brought you to cable news? | ||
| I mean, as if you hadn't had enough fights in the courtroom and then running for prosecutor, you know, all of this, all DA and all that. | ||
| It's like, what? | ||
| I mean, there's no fight like a cable news fight. | ||
| Well, I must tell you that for whatever reason, I got involved in television and it was the OJ Simpson case. | ||
| I believe it was 1994 and that Bronco chase. | ||
| And I remember I had just become the DA and I had, you know, all 150 assistant DAs at my home. | ||
| And one of the guys came out, I think it was one of the investigators, who said, hey boss, you're not going to believe it. | ||
| OJ Simpson's in a Bronco. | ||
| They're chasing him. | ||
| I said, what are they chasing him for? | ||
| Is he speeding? | ||
| Nobody knew. | ||
| But that was really the advent of, you know, my introduction into the importance of the media in identifying and trying to, you know, change certain issues in our society. | ||
| So for battered women, you know, I started the first unit in the nation under the Department of Justice. | ||
| And people kept thinking, battered women, sex is better for them after they're beaten, or they deserved it, or, you know, she's a pain in the ass. | ||
| And, you know, as a woman assistant DA, I had to deal with 43 male police chiefs in my jurisdiction and deal with that kind of, there was a discrimination. | ||
| The thinking was, Marriage is forever. | ||
| Be a better wife. | ||
| If he's beating you, be a better wife. | ||
| Go pray. | ||
| And so we were part of a change. | ||
| It made a tremendous difference. | ||
| But I saw the importance of the media. | ||
| And as a prosecutor, I used the media to help me identify issues and get more victims to come forward. | ||
| So just hearing your history a little bit, and some of this stuff I actually didn't know, does it drive you crazy when people say, oh, conservatives are anti-women, or conservatives are anti-gay, or conservatives are racist, or the rest of it? | ||
| We've talked a little bit about that on your show, but when you hear some of the things that you've been involved in, it's kind of crazy that people get these labels on them. | ||
| And you know, the movie that they made about Roger Ailes and the women at Fox who had all these issues, and for any victim, anyone who's truly a victim. | ||
| Remember, as a prosecutor, I had to decide, is it real? | ||
| Is it credible? | ||
| Is it believable? | ||
| Does it make sense? | ||
| You know, my heart goes out to them and my passion went out to them, along with my energy. | ||
| But in the movie that they made, and I never saw it, They portrayed me as someone who was, as I understand it, apologetic for, you know, the offenders. | ||
| And it made me crazy, Dave. | ||
| It made me nuts. | ||
| I said to myself, for all those hashtag Me Too women, where the hell were you? | ||
| In the late 70s and the early 80s when I was fighting for children to testify, where the hell were you when I was trying to make it illegal to put women on a lie detector test to claim that they were raped? | ||
| Where were you when I was fighting to make sure that women couldn't be judged because they wore a short skirt, which then allows a defense attorney to say, you were asking for it. | ||
| You wear a Rolex and you're a burglarized ape or someone robs you, they're not going to say, hey, you wore that Rolex because you wanted to be robbed. | ||
| But a woman wears a short skirt, she wore that skirt because she wanted to be raped. | ||
| You know, I want to, it makes me crazy because I've spent my life fighting for the silent victims of crime, for women, for the elderly, for children. | ||
| People have no idea what happens to children in our system today. | ||
| You know, I started getting reports of suspected child abuse in the late seventies. | ||
| And they said to me, you're not entitled to those. | ||
| I said, yes, I am. | ||
| I mean, there's a certain benefit to naivete. | ||
| I just, in my, my moral core said, well, of course you are. | ||
| And they said, no, these are privileged. | ||
| They stay with social services. | ||
| So I had an all out war and I was going to sue the department of social services. | ||
| I went to the DA and he says, Oh, let little Janine, let her go do her social things. | ||
| And it turned out, I said to them, look, if a social worker goes and finds that a child is maybe being abused, but returns the child to the parents, that record is then expunged. | ||
| And maybe if they're called again and they don't find anything, that record is expunged. | ||
| But the third time the kid is dead, okay? | ||
| I want the first record and the second record. | ||
| And don't you dare tell me That I can't get a history of abuse in a criminal case when I've got the homicide of that child. | ||
| And I did child abuse homicides. | ||
| That was one of my expertise, whether it's shaken baby syndrome, immersion in scalding water, uh, being beaten to death. | ||
| I mean, I can tell you stories that make your hair stand and I don't talk about it often, Dave. | ||
| And I don't know, you just kind of hit a thing in my head. | ||
| Um, very rarely do people even know what I did other than, oh, she was a DA, whatever that means. | ||
| No, I have a passion. | ||
| And I have an empathy for the victim. | ||
| The victim was everything to me. | ||
| Why do we name the system, Dave, think about this, the criminal justice system? | ||
| It should be the victim justice system. | ||
| The victim never wanted to be a part of this, but all of a sudden, like a thunderbolt, their lives are changed and the ripple effect to their family and the community, it's just, it's enormous. | ||
| You know, what we're seeing today is just an example of all that craziness. | ||
| So when you hear people talk about systemic racism that is in our criminal justice system, well, I guess first, do you think that exists? | ||
| And if it does exist, can you give me an example of it or a time that you came up against it? | ||
| Um, I absolutely do not believe there's systemic racism. | ||
| I think that the laws are in place to protect everyone. | ||
| And, and I've watched those laws evolve over the years. | ||
| But in terms of what I've done, let me be real clear about this. | ||
| Are there bad cops? | ||
| Yes, absolutely. | ||
| Have I prosecuted bad cops? | ||
| Yes, absolutely. | ||
| Did I like it? | ||
| I didn't really like it or dislike it. | ||
| It was the only way to handle it. | ||
| I prosecuted an off-duty New York City police officer for shooting an African-American over a parking space in Westchester. | ||
| Dave, to this day, that guy who was the cop, I convicted him, he was convicted, my office convicted him, he was convicted, and he went to prison for 25 years. | ||
| To this day, these guys are after me for doing that. | ||
| Now, I had no idea But Al Sharpton, who I knew because I ran for office, you know, so many times, Al Sharpton wanted to make a visit. | ||
| He called my secretary, at the time there were secretaries, and she said, boss, Al Sharpton wants to visit you with a few reverends. | ||
| I said, why not? | ||
| You know, that's fine. | ||
| So they came in one morning after the verdict, about three or four days, and they brought in pastries and we made coffee for them. | ||
| And, you know, I sat and I kind of waited for a second and they said, we want to thank you. | ||
| And I said, What? | ||
| And they said, never in the history of New York has a white cop been convicted of killing a black man. | ||
| And I didn't realize that it was historic. | ||
| Am I proud of it? | ||
| No, I'm not proud of it. | ||
| I'm not ashamed of it. | ||
| It was a horrible thing that happened, but it was the right thing to do. | ||
| But to this day, when the NYPD gave me an award two years ago, That guy's friends, the white cop's friends from New York City are still after me. | ||
| I have a radio show with WABC. | ||
| They call me up and say, you're this and that, you know, and then I just go like that and they get rid of the call. | ||
| But I, um, I've come across a lot of, uh, a lot of cases that were ugly, but if your moral core is strong, if you know who you are, if you're not a weakling, then it's easy. | ||
| You do what you have to do. | ||
| Actually, I wasn't going to ask you this, but I think it's sort of the perfect segue before we get to the book. | ||
| Speaking of moral core and doing what you think is right and all that, you're a New Yorker. | ||
| As you know, I'm born and bred New Yorker until I moved out to Cali eight years ago, so I've only lived in New York and California. | ||
| What is it, do you think, about New York? | ||
| Like, you strike me as such a New Yorker, like, in the best sense of what New York is, you know? | ||
| People think New York, if you're from New York, Callie, you're crazy, but I mean New York in just sort of the ethnic makeup of New York and the no BS and call it as it is and all that. | ||
| Can you just tell me a little bit about just like your family makeup and where some of that came from? | ||
| Okay, sure. | ||
| I'd be happy to. | ||
| I'm of Lebanese descent. | ||
| I don't know if you even knew that. | ||
| Everyone assumes because I married an Italian and my name is Jean. | ||
| Italian? | ||
| Yeah, I thought you were purebred off the boat from Sicily. | ||
| No, no, I'm Lebanese Christian, both my mom and dad. | ||
| My dad fought in World War II. | ||
| He was not first generation. | ||
| My grandfather fought in World War II, but I'm 100% Lebanese Christian. | ||
| Um, we kept the subculture alive. | ||
| I cook the food. | ||
| I cook hummus, tambouli and baba ganoush and the grape leaves. | ||
| I do all that stuff. | ||
| Uh, but I'm going to surprise you. | ||
| I grew up in a small town in upstate New York and I worked in a dairy, uh, as, as a young kid. | ||
| And, uh, so this, you know, people say to me, are you from the Bronx? | ||
| Are you from Greece? | ||
| No, actually I'm from Elmira. | ||
| And they're like, where is that? | ||
| Um, and, uh, in fact, Dave, for the longest time, I had pot belly pigs in my yard here in Westchester. | ||
| Uh, you know, the pigs. | ||
| Um, and one lived, uh, I think it was 16 years. | ||
| I mean, I just liked farm animals and, uh, you know, it was, it's upstate New York was more like middle America, you know, and, uh, learn how to shoot a gun. | ||
| Um, Church was important. | ||
| Education was important. | ||
| I'm the first one in my family to go to college. | ||
| And, you know, it was a very simple, very simple life. | ||
| Nothing complicated about it. | ||
| And my mom passed last year in the room right above us here. | ||
| I had her in hospice and, you know, she was everything. | ||
| She gave me, you know, the moral compass to both empathize Uh, and she gave me that, that, that heart for victims. | ||
| You know, they, they just weren't people that you prosecuted for. | ||
| They were your family. | ||
| And, um, and yet the tough side of me came from being a prosecutor. | ||
| You know, I was the first woman that went out on a homicide review and, you know, I remember the first time I went out on a homicide call. | ||
| Um, I went out, you know, like the first thing I said, you know, laugh. | ||
| I said, like, the call comes in, of course, at three in the morning. | ||
| Homicides only happen at three in the morning. | ||
| So after they have an argument with my then-husband that he was going to get his wife, and they kept saying, no, we want the assistant DA, because I was the first. | ||
| And so I say to my husband, after they tell me the location, I say, what do you wear to a homicide? | ||
| What a dumb thing to say. | ||
| He said, it doesn't matter what you wear, Janine, just take the penal law with you. | ||
| So when I got there, they didn't want to let me on the scene. | ||
| And I said, no, no, I'm really an assistant DA. | ||
| I was like 25 years old. | ||
| So yeah, it's been an interesting career. | ||
| And I'm very, very lucky. | ||
| I had a simple life to deal with this complicated world. | ||
| I'm pretty sure the title of your next book is, what are you aware to a homicide? | ||
| I think, I think we got, I think we got that right there. | ||
| Oh, and by the way, for the record, I do know Elmira because I went to SUNY Binghamton. | ||
| So I know a little bit. | ||
| I know a little bit about the Southern tier. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh my gosh. | ||
| W-E-N-Y? | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| You remember W-E-N-Y? | ||
| Of course I do. | ||
|
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And did you ski? | |
| Not well. | ||
| I could fall down a mountain pretty decently. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| Oh my gosh. | ||
| Yeah, my grandfather lived in Binghamton. | ||
| Anyway. | ||
| Let's shift a little bit here. | ||
| I know that this interview right now is obviously your biggest interview of the week, but a few days ago you did sit down with this other guy, I'm sure some of my audience has heard about him before, this Donald Trump I'm sure some people have heard of him. | ||
| Can you just tell me a little bit, sort of like, what is the preparation as an interviewer to do that? | ||
| I know you have a relationship and he, you know, he calls in and all that kind of stuff. | ||
| But like, just what's it like sitting down with the guy and trying to just make sense of the world with him right now? | ||
| You know, as you said, I've known Donald Trump for about 35 years. | ||
| My then husband, Al, who answered the phone and fought with his sergeant and kept saying, I'm not the assistant DA, Jeanine is, represented Donald for years. | ||
| So we spent time most weekends going to Florida with Donald when my kids were little and his kids were little. | ||
| And so I know the man. | ||
| I know Donald Trump, the man. | ||
| I have a sense of You know who he is and, um, I, I know a side of him, not the caricature that they make him out to be. | ||
| I know that he's brilliant, but to answer your question directly, how do you sit down and prepare for it? | ||
| Um, I try to, first thing you do is you figure out topics. | ||
| What do you want to talk to him about? | ||
| Biggest issues right now are the pandemic, uh, the rioting and the looting of the election, the debate. | ||
| Joe Biden, is he capable? | ||
| And the things that no one was talking about that I thought was so important were the Nobel Peace Prize. | ||
| I mean, the Abraham Accords just signed. | ||
| I mean, talk about Israel, the United Arab Emirates, Israel and Bahrain. | ||
| I mean, this is big stuff. | ||
| And, you know, apparently the Saudis are about to follow. | ||
| So I talked to him about that and I write my questions out. | ||
| And you know, I've never talked to anyone else at Fox on how they do it. | ||
| It's almost like you're trying a case, you know, but it's your direct case. | ||
| It's not really a cross-examination. | ||
| But you know that you're going to have to push a little bit. | ||
| So there are two questions where I pushed. | ||
| One question was, look, something like, Mr. President, I know that you have to be invited into certain areas. | ||
| In order to bring in the National Guard, as you did in Milwaukee, and as you did in Kenosha. | ||
| But there are some places they will just not have you in. | ||
| And they'd rather see rioting and looting. | ||
| The word is that on election night, assuming that there's a winner, and if you win, if you are the winner, and there are the promised riots, looting, and anarchy, what will you do? | ||
| He said, we'll put it down very quickly. | ||
| What will you do? | ||
| We're gonna put it down very quickly. | ||
| What will you do? | ||
| He said, insurrection. | ||
| He's going to use the Insurrection Act. | ||
| And I knew that at some point he had to admit that he was going to use it. | ||
| But I said, why not now? | ||
| And he said, it's not ready yet. | ||
| This isn't the time yet. | ||
| So I think what he is preparing for is something really big on election night. | ||
| Where were you on election night? | ||
| Do you remember 2016? | ||
| Yeah, I was on air on The Daily Wire with Ben Shapiro and the crew over there, and my one takeaway of the night, I don't know if you know Andrew Klavan, who's one of the hosts on The Daily Wire, he said something that I thought was really brilliant that night. | ||
| He said, only in America could the thing that everyone said couldn't happen, could happen. | ||
| And I thought, well, all right, whether you love Trump or hate Trump, the fact that something like that can happen, that all the pundits could get it wrong, all the pollsters could get it wrong, all the elites could get it wrong, that's actually pretty beautiful. | ||
| That goes to the strength of our democracy, actually. | ||
| You know, and it really does go to the strength of our democracy, that it's not so predictable. | ||
| It's not so set in stone. | ||
| It's not as though people are orchestrating it. | ||
| I remember coming out of the Hilton. | ||
| Uh, on election morning, it was like three 30 or four in the morning. | ||
| And I was just so excited. | ||
| I mean, I think Buzzfeed, one of them had a picture of me standing on a chair with a Trump hat on and I had the loudest dress I could wear. | ||
| It was like orange flowers or something. | ||
| And so I'm like dancing out of the hotel and all of a sudden they, somebody starts cursing at me and you know, and I look down and I, I look up the guys like six, four. | ||
| And he's cursing me out. | ||
| And, you know, not a shy New Yorker. | ||
| I went right back at him. | ||
| Although he was taller than me. | ||
| Although he was in a tutu. | ||
| But he was really tall. | ||
| So the cop said to me, Judge, come over here. | ||
| I said, no! | ||
| Make him go over there. | ||
| You know, I'm really stupid sometimes. | ||
| You're a New Yorker. | ||
| Whatever the reason is, I was stupid. | ||
| And so then they start, another guy started coming out, cursing me. | ||
| She's a Trump person. | ||
| So the reason I bring it up is I guarantee you that 2020, if the president is announced as the winner that night, it's going to be wild. | ||
| And, um, I truly believe he will win. | ||
| I think that even people, Dave, in those towns where there's anarchy, like Portland and Seattle, and I know those are liberal states. | ||
| And like Oregon and all that, but there are people now who are afraid. | ||
| They're afraid. | ||
| They survived kind of the pandemic and they have one shot to get back their business, which is the security for their family, which is their, their, their ego, their sense of self, their sense of self worth. | ||
| Our jobs are who we are and bang, the protesters come in and destroy it. | ||
| I don't think they want. | ||
| The left controlling that and getting away with impunity. | ||
| This is impunity. | ||
| But it's not one thing, Dave. | ||
| It's not like all of a sudden it was a perfect storm that George Floyd died and everybody said, all right, let's revolt. | ||
| No, you don't find bricks in the middle of a pandemic, right? | ||
| Nobody's building anything in Manhattan. | ||
| And all of a sudden, all over the country, there's no bail. | ||
| Statutes. | ||
| So everyone who's being arrested is being let out. | ||
| And even the ones who are being arrested, they've now got prosecutors who have been elected with the support of the Democrat Socialists of America who are saying, we're not prosecuting them. | ||
| We're not putting people in jail. | ||
| We're letting people out of jail. | ||
| And so now this whole layer that we haven't even noticed is on fire. | ||
| And it is set for a huge turnaround. | ||
| And this is the last chance we have in this country to secure law and order. | ||
| So that, all right. | ||
| So that brings us to the book because I, I read a bunch of it this morning and, and the first, the opening of the book, in essence, you say, this is a battle of good and evil. | ||
| And you know, I've sort of come around to that. | ||
| Like, I don't like thinking that my ideological enemies are evil. | ||
| And I think a lot of them have good intentions. | ||
| But I think in effect at this point, this thing that we're fighting, that you're talking about, this Marxist revolution and Antifa and BLM and this whole thing, it has become evil, even if some of them do have good intentions. | ||
| Do you really believe that this is sort of the last stand? | ||
| We always say this is the most important election ever. | ||
| But do you really feel like this is it? | ||
| Like this is the final stand? | ||
| You know, you're right, we always say it. | ||
| People always say this is the most important election in your lifetime. | ||
| I really mean it this time. | ||
| I mean, I would take an oath on this. | ||
| You know, I would go to church on this. | ||
| Because there's so much at stake and we're right at the precipice where it'll all fall. | ||
| I spent 32 years in law enforcement, in the courts, in the criminal justice system. | ||
| I know that. | ||
| That is my wheelhouse. | ||
| And what is happening now, with the defunding of police, With the stand down police orders, with the no bail, with prosecutors who are refusing to prosecute, what we've got now is total anarchy. | ||
| And when the left talks about open borders, locking you down, defunding the police, and when Kamala Harris says the Constitution doesn't stop her from taking away our guns, we got real problems. | ||
| We've got real problems. | ||
| And you know what I think? | ||
| I think not just the people who live in the cities that have been destroyed, Milwaukee, Kenosha, which is small town America, Milwaukee, and Chicago, and Seattle, and Portland, and Detroit, and not Detroit so much, they're in good shape, but Washington, and so many cities, New York City. | ||
| I mean, the Democrats know what they need, and they need law enforcement. | ||
| They need criminal justice. | ||
| People in the inner city know that the vast majority of victims of crime are black-on-black crime, okay? | ||
| They know they need protection, and so the black reverends, the Hispanic pastors, and all that other stuff, priests, they want law enforcement in the community. | ||
| But the criminals are now emboldened. | ||
| I'm not telling you anything you don't already know and that you talk about, Dave. | ||
| This is the last chance. | ||
| People are walking around with guns in their waistbands. | ||
| They're not worried about anything. | ||
| Because just as I unearthed, there was a memo the D.A. | ||
| in Manhattan, Cy Vance, handed out right after one of the huge protests, which involved looting and burning and anarchists and all kinds of theft. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The D.A. | |
| comes out in this internal memo to his staff and he says, we're going to give the protesters, they're protesters, Mind you, they're protestors. | ||
| Yeah, protestors. | ||
| Give them CCDs or dismissals. | ||
| But if any of those protestors have any information about police misbehaving in their arrest or mishandling them, we will take those cases and prosecute them. | ||
| So let the protestors go and turn the tables on the cops. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Two cops in Compton, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm sick, I'm sick, people laughing. | ||
| People laughing, a woman shot through the jaw trying to say what her number is. | ||
| This is not America. | ||
| How worried are you that the state of the system, because of everything that you just described there, that in a certain way it almost has to get worse before it can get better? | ||
| That you can't get a reset when you have so many sort of cowardly DAs Now, cowardly, I don't blame a lot of the police chiefs or the average policeman who's retiring early. | ||
| I don't blame him. | ||
| It's like, if you're not gonna be backed up by your politicians, I don't blame them. | ||
| But do you think it has to get worse because enough of them will have to disappear and maybe you have to then vote in completely new politicians, most likely Republicans, without complete chaos happening, that it can't reset otherwise? | ||
| Well, I think two things. | ||
| I think, number one, It has to get worse and it will get worse, okay? | ||
| There's no question. | ||
| The president is not gonna use insurrection unless it does get worse. | ||
| He said the time is not now. | ||
| And I also think that these, I'm so sorry. | ||
| You got your own insurrection over there. | ||
| Yeah, I'm so sorry. | ||
| But I also think that these politicians, these prosecutors are in I mean, they're not going to be voted out for a few years. | ||
| But the money that's coming in to support Antifa, outside money, and the money that's coming in to fund these people flying from one city to another city, where they're bailed out in one city to then go to another city. | ||
| I mean, there's big money behind the destruction of this country. | ||
| All right, so let's just hit a couple other things that you go into in the book. | ||
| So since we've talked about New York and so much of your history is in New York, you're not a fan of Bill de Blasio, the mayor of New York City. | ||
| I believe you call him Bozo de Blasio. | ||
| Are you shocked how quickly the city has devolved under him? | ||
| Even though I know you don't agree with any of his policies, but just the rapid rate that so much of the city has just turned into chaos. | ||
| Look, the man is either stupid, incompetent, or both. | ||
| All right? | ||
| That's what I think of Bozo. | ||
| The guy is a bozo. | ||
| I mean, first of all, The fact that he would move to defund the police, the fact that he started half of this police hatred in New York, he's been very, very much pushing that agenda. | ||
| He doesn't support the police. | ||
| And I talked to a lot of the upper echelon in the police department, the top ranks there. | ||
| I mean, they cannot deal with him and he can't deal with them. | ||
| He's never been a fan of law enforcement. | ||
| But by not deploying police when there was looting going on on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. | ||
| Now, I'm not saying because they're wealthy or they deserve protection. | ||
| I'm not saying that at all. | ||
| Because if you got a bodega and that's all you got, then that's your castle and you deserve protection because you're paying taxes too. | ||
| But things that are so obvious, so apparent, all you have to do is deploy the police. | ||
| He didn't do it. | ||
| I mean, I was told, he told them, you're gonna stand down or we're not deploying them. | ||
| The same with Macy's in Herald Square. | ||
| They're trying to start a fire in Macy's. | ||
| Why is he so happy with that? | ||
| And the dumbest thing the man ever said when he said, oh no, these are peaceful protesters, you're blind too, where he says, we're gonna allow them to protest because this is a historic moment in history. | ||
| Are you kidding? | ||
| It's a historic moment in history. | ||
| But don't you dare go to church. | ||
| Don't you Jews dare have a funeral. | ||
| Don't you dare do any, go back to work. | ||
| Don't you dare, and then Cuomo wants to deploy, what was it, 4,000 police to monitor the restaurants to make sure people are wearing masks when they go in the restaurants. | ||
| When you don't have police, a woman was raped on a platform. | ||
| In the middle of the day, there are people walking around in Manhattan, men without their pants on, and they're drinking alcohol from a paper bag, a flask in a paper bag. | ||
| I mean, the man doesn't have a clue. | ||
| What do you think he thinks? | ||
| I mean, he obviously, I don't want to say he obviously doesn't want to destroy the city. | ||
| I don't know what the guy wants. | ||
| Like, what do you think he thinks is supposed to happen because of his policies? | ||
| You know, I remember he said something that just floored me. | ||
| When they said, he said, they said, Mr. Mayor, this is right in the beginning. | ||
| Crime is going up. | ||
| And his answer was something like, well, we'll hit the streets and we'll talk about it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Crime is going to go down when you talk about it. | ||
| You're about as scary as Big Bird. | ||
| You know, I mean, this guy is from another, he's from another time. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Your question really is, is he intentionally doing it? | ||
| You know? | ||
| Does he hate New York? | ||
| I think, look, this guy is Wilhelm Comrade de Blasio. | ||
| I mean, the guy even changed his name. | ||
| He's a phony. | ||
| You know, he changed his name from Wilhelm III or whatever. | ||
| And, you know, I believe he believes in communism. | ||
| I really do. | ||
| He doesn't believe in law and order. | ||
| That's not his agenda. | ||
| I mean, his wife, Shirlane, says that New York would be nirvana without the police. | ||
| I'm going to stop right there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Speaking as a judge, since you mentioned Andrew Cuomo, Cuomo said that eating wings is not a meal. | ||
| That doesn't count as a meal. | ||
| Is there any legal precedent behind that? | ||
| My God, when did he say that? | ||
| That's what he said. | ||
| He said it a couple of weeks ago because, you know, what happened was some of the bars started opening up and the way they got around it was they started serving, because he said you have to have a meal. | ||
| So they started serving wings, and then the governor decided that wings are not a meal. | ||
| What does that tell you, Dave? | ||
| It tells you that they want to lock us down. | ||
| That whatever excuse they can use to prevent us from going out is the excuse they're going to use. | ||
| Fear is a very big factor in control. | ||
| And, you know, I'm seeing people now that I haven't seen in months, Dave, and they're like, oh yeah, you know, they're just different. | ||
| They're afraid. | ||
| They're afraid of everything. | ||
| You know, now that the winter's coming, people are going to start, you know, going, staying inside and they operate on that. | ||
| And, you know, Joe Biden, I, this is one really knocked me out. | ||
| Joe Biden and, uh, and his wife, Jill, I think it was Memorial day, the first, you know, weekend of the summer, pretty much. | ||
| And they've been in the basement in the bunker forever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And the two of them are going to put a, uh, some flowers on one of the burial plots. | ||
| They're walking together, the two of them, in black masks from here to here. | ||
| Just the two of them, no one's with them. | ||
| Why, you've been together, bunkered up for months, and now at the end of May, | ||
| you're coming out with black masks, just the two of you. | ||
| There's no one in sight. | ||
| What does that tell you? | ||
| It's a whole mindset. | ||
| They have to be careful, and the mask is black. | ||
| What would you be doing? | ||
| If you were mayor of New York City, or you were governor of New York at this point, | ||
| with lockdowns and everything else, what do you think would be a sensible way | ||
| I think a sensible thing to do would be to meet with the business people, to bring the businessmen, and bring law enforcement, and to have a high-level meeting on what they need and what we're gonna do, and how we can do it together. | ||
| And I think right now that with the defunding of police, assuming that's already been done, that we've got to convince the police that maybe they're going to have to work with some of these private security guards and at least share information on what's going on. | ||
| Because intelligence is one of the most important things you can have in law enforcement. | ||
| And there's gotta be an open line of communication. | ||
| People have to be able to go to work. | ||
| Look, you don't think we've had enough of this? | ||
| You don't think people know, wear a mask, wash your hands, don't touch things, wear gloves. | ||
| I mean, everybody knows what they have to do. | ||
| This is America. | ||
| This is the land of the free and the home of the brave. | ||
| Let us out. | ||
| Don't give me this hogwash how you have to lock me down. | ||
| You're not locking me down anymore. | ||
| You can't tell me what to do. | ||
| You can't take my gun. | ||
| You can't tell me what to say. | ||
| You can't lock me in my home. | ||
| I've had enough of all of you. | ||
| Judge, that is absolutely our clip for this episode. | ||
| That was the promo right there. | ||
| You just made it very easy for my guys. | ||
| So you mentioned Biden there, and chapter three is about Bunker Biden. | ||
| Joking aside for a second, even politics aside, What do you think is going on with him cognitively or health-wise? | ||
| Because it seems to me, I've been saying this for a while, that the scandal is not that something is wrong with him. | ||
| That seems obvious to everyone. | ||
| The scandal is that there's no scandal. | ||
| The scandal is that the media won't talk about it when we can all see it. | ||
| Do you think that's a fair estimation? | ||
| I mean, what do you think is really happening there? | ||
| Oh, I think you're absolutely on point there. | ||
| I think the amazing part of it is that, you know, and this speaks to the whole issue of the, of the media and their complicity with the left. | ||
| Uh, there, you know, I asked the president about this and, uh, you know, he said to me and he, the president's a wise man. | ||
| He said, you know, he said it was almost even between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders in that debate. | ||
| And I thought so too. | ||
| When I saw it, Joe Biden was on his game. | ||
| And I said, what do you think accounts for the fact that one day he can't finish a sentence? | ||
| And I mean, you just cringe for him. | ||
| And then, you know, the next day he'll do something with Biden. | ||
| And obviously they're afraid to let him out. | ||
| How is this guy gonna run the country? | ||
| He does one appearance, no questions, gets back in his car and goes home for three days and rests. | ||
| He's in a presidential campaign. | ||
| I mean, how's he gonna run the country? | ||
| Who's he gonna match wits with? | ||
| Putin or Kim Jong-un or what's his name? | ||
| Xi Jinping. | ||
| He can't do it. | ||
| He can't do it. | ||
| So what's going on with him? | ||
| You know, people say that there are certain medications that, you know, can make him more lucid. | ||
| But to me, the telltale was last night when Pamela Harris said the Harris administration, along with Joe Biden, I said to myself, Janine, What is going on in the back rooms? | ||
| What are they planning? | ||
| Why is it that she's referring to herself as the Harris administration with Joe Biden? | ||
| Is he the entree, you know, just to get in? | ||
| Because I can't believe the man is capable of running this country. | ||
| He doesn't have a- Judge, I don't know if you, I don't know if you saw this, but like literally about 15 minutes before we started this, he flubbed it today too. | ||
| And he called it the Harris-Biden administration. | ||
| Literally, it happened like 15 minutes before we went live, or before we started recording. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Oh my gosh. | ||
| I rest my case. | ||
| Ray Zipza. | ||
| The thing speaks for itself. | ||
| Ray Zipza Locador. | ||
| Little Latin. | ||
| So let's back up for a second, because you know Trump, and a lot of my audience, you know a bit about my political evolution, and that I was a Bernie supporter, and a progressive, and a lefty, and all those things, and I... You're good. | ||
| You're a pro. | ||
| You're a pro. | ||
| I should be judged accordingly for all of those things. | ||
| But I know that there's a lot of my audience that I would say they don't consider themselves conservative per se, or even on the right, but they consider themselves what I would say is sort of the disaffected liberal. | ||
| And I think that is a huge, huge amount of people in America right now. | ||
| The liberals that just can't believe how bananas the left has gone. | ||
| But I think the other piece of that is They just find something about Trump off-putting, whether it's the way he speaks or the tweeting or whatever, something like that. | ||
| So since you know him and you talked about it a little bit already, can you just, if you wanted people to be more okay that he does love this country, that he's a decent guy, and it took me a long time to get there, by the way. | ||
| I think I mentioned this on your show. | ||
| It wasn't until I actually met him and I had about 10 minutes to talk to him that I felt more okay. | ||
| when he literally turned to my husband and I, and he goes, "You guys are gay." | ||
| He goes, "That's great. | ||
| "Your only problem is you're too handsome." | ||
| And I thought, this is the guy who says everyone's a homo. | ||
| You know, they say that he's a homophobe. | ||
| But since you know him a little bit more, yeah, can you just dive into that? | ||
| You know, Donald Trump is not the caricature that they make him out to be. | ||
| And you know, I, I just, I, there are certain little vignettes that I remember, you know, when, when my kids would be, we'd go, we'd fly down to Florida. | ||
| We had a house and of course he had Mar-a-Lago. | ||
| Um, and, and he would say very quietly to his kids, don't talk to her like that. | ||
| You don't talk to your sister like that. | ||
| You don't talk to him like that. | ||
| Never raise his voice. | ||
| You know, he was always serious. | ||
| And then when he got a little more upset, it would be, No, no emotion. | ||
| You just lost your allowance. | ||
| Keep it up. | ||
| Keep it up. | ||
| He was always attentive to their behavior and how they acted toward each other. | ||
| And, and I'll never forget it was, it was toward the beginning of, of, uh, school or, uh, no, the second semester, I guess. | ||
| And he said, when we land, we're going to Kmart to get our school supplies, he said to the kids. | ||
| And I'm like, Donald Trump goes to Kmart? | ||
| Wow! | ||
| But when we would walk down the street in Manhattan, we went out with him a lot. | ||
| He was always kind to me. | ||
| He would say to people, you know, this Janine Pirro, she's a DA, you know, from Westchester. | ||
| And I was always on television for something. | ||
| And he was always more, um, you know, he was beholding and trying to get people to, to recognize you instead of him. | ||
| Whenever he saw a cop, whenever he saw a construction worker, a hard hat, and they were all enamored with him, they were like, Oh, hi. | ||
| And they didn't have phone cameras maybe back then, but they say, can I shake your hand? | ||
| He would absolutely do it. | ||
| Whenever we'd go into a restaurant and have dinner or something, He'd march right into that kitchen and take care of everybody in the kitchen. | ||
| He is a good, generous man and his kids are a testament to the success that he instilled in them. | ||
| Every one of them. | ||
| I mean, those kids are smart. | ||
| They're successful. | ||
| They're brilliant. | ||
| They really are. | ||
| And as a human being, you know, you go through tough periods in your life or your career. | ||
| He was always there for me or, you know, for my then husband, he was always there. | ||
| Always generous in spirit, loved his brother, Robert. | ||
| I was at the white house for the, uh, for the wake, uh, was very, very sad about that. | ||
| Uh, very family oriented day. | ||
| They were always together. | ||
| He was with his sisters and his brother, um, and never drank. | ||
| And I remember when I interviewed him in 2016, right before, um, he ran. | ||
| There was talk of him running. | ||
| And I said, you want to tell people you don't drink? | ||
| He said, no, I don't drink. | ||
| Never had a drink. | ||
| And people were floored by that. | ||
| But I've seen him in parties all hours of the day and night. | ||
| Go to Mar-a-Lago. | ||
| Everybody beat. | ||
| You know, half in the bag. | ||
| Not Donald. | ||
| I love the guy. | ||
| He's a wonderful, wonderful man. | ||
| And he loves this country. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| I don't know anyone, Dave, who could take the assaults that he's taken on a daily basis. | ||
| And survive them. | ||
| The guy looks better than ever. | ||
| Usually, after four years, you're exhausted. | ||
| He's raring to go. | ||
| No, I know. | ||
| He's more bronze than usual now. | ||
| It must be because of peace in the Middle East. | ||
| It made him bronze or something. | ||
| But speaking of the human side of things, I've had a bunch of the Fox hosts on, and you guys all just get endlessly trashed in the media, and you get the Media Matters boycotts, and they go for your sponsors, and all of that stuff. | ||
| And I don't know how comfortable you'll be talking about this, but you did mention to me once how it can take a toll, you know, when you're in your town and, oh, there's Judge Jeanine, she's on Fox, and just dealing with some of that kind of hate. | ||
| And yet you always have a smile on your face. | ||
| I mean, what's that like? | ||
| Just being, you live in New York, you're a public person, and you gotta deal with some pretty hateful stuff. | ||
| Yeah, I do, I do, but you see, The difference for me is I ran for office five times. | ||
| I am hardened with steel, and I'm used to it. | ||
| I mean, they used to boycott me for this or that, or I'd prosecute a case they didn't like it. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I really don't care. | ||
| If you care enough that you're thinking about changing your mind, Then care and change your mind. | ||
| But if you believe that what you're doing is right, I don't give it a second thought. | ||
| But what I am amazed at or with is the fact that people on the left dropped me, you know, when Trump got elected. | ||
| My friends dropped me. | ||
| And I was like, but I would never drop you. | ||
| You know, I just wouldn't. | ||
| It all started, you know, we all got dropped. | ||
| And I found that hurt. | ||
| That hurt. | ||
| I know the feeling. | ||
| It hurt. | ||
| And you know, when you try, you know, to, to, to not maybe sound as crazy, and then you just say, you know what? | ||
| I am who I am. | ||
| It's a short visit here, Dave. | ||
| All of us are here for a short time. | ||
| And if you, if you can't be who you are, and if you don't know who you are, then you better, you know, reintroduce yourself to yourself and get moving. | ||
| So I have, I have no regrets. | ||
| And I also don't worry about those people. | ||
| And I also am a gun owner. | ||
| I have six guns. | ||
| As you know, I am a new gun owner, so we share some things in common. | ||
| So you end the book, fittingly, with a closing statement. | ||
| So I feel that we should end this interview with a closing statement. | ||
| I mean, if someone picks up your book, and we're six weeks now, roughly, but when the book comes out about five weeks before the election, What is it that you want them to take more than anything else from the book? | ||
| I want people to recognize that it is, it's not just about the lies. | ||
| I mean, I identify the lies and I go through the lies, but the most important thing for them to understand is that there's a quote from Abraham Lincoln, from his speech at Lyceum, where he talks about the destruction of this country will not come from a foreign source. | ||
| It will come from within. | ||
| And that's what we're facing right now. | ||
| We're facing an absolute destruction of America as we know it from forces within America. | ||
| And we can't let that happen. | ||
| We can't forget who we are, how free we are, and we can't not protect Americans and our families and our businesses. | ||
| You know, we were happy. | ||
| We really were. | ||
| I mean, some people are just miserable. | ||
| But, um, this is really the land of the free and the home of the brave. | ||
| And we need to continue to be that. | ||
| I don't need anyone to tell me that America was never so great or America sucks. | ||
| You know, if you don't like America, well then don't live here, you know? | ||
| But, uh, we can always make changes. | ||
| Evolution is part of who we are. | ||
| But, uh, I love this country and Donald Trump does too. | ||
| And I know that. | ||
| Judge, I was originally gonna end this interview by inviting myself to your house so that I could have spaghetti and meatballs or your famous lasagna, but now that I know you're Lebanese, it's gonna be tabbouleh and some baba ghanoush. | ||
| What's your specialty? | ||
| I make something called shakla meshi, which is eggplant with meat and some little nuts in it. | ||
| It's delicious. | ||
| And whatever you like, I can cook all of it. | ||
| I love it. | ||
| Cheese kebab, what do you like? | ||
| What's your pleasure? | ||
| You're from California. | ||
| I know what you would like. | ||
| I would make you salmon and chicken on a shish kebab with peppers and onions and tomatoes, all that stuff. | ||
| That'd be good. | ||
| You see how I just invited myself over and you laid out the menu for me? | ||
| Pretty good, huh? | ||
| I love to cook. | ||
| There's a mother in me. | ||
| I beg my kids. | ||
| I say, come home, guys. | ||
| Mom's cooking. | ||
| They're like, yay, she's cooking. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Judge, I appreciate your friendship, and I hope people got to see you in a little bit of a new way here. | ||
| The book is Don't Lie to Me. | ||
| We're gonna link to it in the YouTube description, and hopefully we will do this in person one of these days. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Thank you, Dave, and good luck to you. | ||
| And it was a pleasure. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. |
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