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Sept. 20, 2020 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin

01:41:43

Exposing What You Aren't Being Told About Slavery & Racism | Candace Owens | POLITICS | Rubin Report

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candace owens

01:10:00

dave rubin

30:35

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candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I liken it to seeing a parent with a toddler, like if you're at a restaurant and the toddler is freaking out and screaming, and there are the parents that give the toddler what he wants, and that's like terrible.
		And white America, when they see these radicalized black people, because it's not all black people, but they get the attention, right?
		These radicalized black people screaming and wailing about something, they just give them what they want, no matter what it is.
		Defund the police.
		Okay, we'll just start talking about defunding the police because you've made that ridiculous, absurd demand that has never been made, ever.
		Um, and so it's hard not to think that this is actually the fault of white guilt, right?
		This is white guilt gone too far.
		You guys are like overdosing on white guilt right now.
unidentified		[MUSIC PLAYING]
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I'm Dave Rubin, and this is the Rubin Report.
		I originally interviewed Candace Owens on March 12th to discuss her new book, Blackout, but as we recorded, news of COVID-related lockdowns began and suddenly the news cycle totally shifted.
		Now, six months later, we're picking up the conversation and then releasing the original conversation, unedited, along with the new pickup we're doing right now.
		Most guests would never allow an interview to sit for so long, but if I can say one thing about Candace Owens, it's that she's a woman of her words.
		Candace!
		We shot that interview, it seems like a lifetime ago, but it was March 12th, and it basically was the day that the lockdowns were beginning, and the second we stepped out of the studio, your assistant, my whole team, everyone's telling us we're freaking out, you guys had to get out of LA, but You are a woman true to your word, even now, six months later, because you were like, ah, I don't think this is anything.
		This is nonsense.
		They're trying to take Trump out.
		And from everything I know of you since then, you have consistently put that message out there.
		So first off, how are you?
		I haven't seen you in a while.
		How you doing?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing well.
		I think it's also important that I break the story here that on that day, the morning I woke up at my hotel, I had an allergic reaction to a feathered pillow.
		So my waist was scratchy and I had a cold and I came in and Dave and his husband did not believe that I had had an allergic reaction.
		And they thought I was COVID-19.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't just that you had an allergic reaction.
		You came in, you were coughing and sneezing.
		The news is breaking all over the world.
		And you were telling us that you had blood, that you were coughing blood earlier in the morning.
		And then you're like, oh, you don't mind if I work from your house all day, do you?
		And what did I do?
		What does a real friend do?
		You did.
		And we even fed you.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but that is what feather pillows do to me.
		I have the strangest allergy with feather pillows.
		And if I sleep on one, I wake up and I will literally be coughing blood.
		But the timing, I will give you credit.
unidentified		It was just bad timing with all of the COVID-19 stuff breaking out.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Man, how bad would Vox love it if Candace Owens was patient zero on COVID-19?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, come on.
unidentified		They would have loved it so much.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		They would have loved it.
		All right.
		So listen, I said to you before we did this that I wanted to do a pickup with you because it does feel like a totally different world in just six months.
		It feels so different.
		But we are going to air that interview totally unedited, just as it was.
		But I thought it was worth talking for another half hour or so just about what has gone on for the last six months, if any of that has changed your feelings on anything or anything else.
		So first off, you are in DC.
		You've become a creature of the swamp somehow.
		What's life like in DC?
		How has COVID affected you?
		And, you know, you're pretty outspoken about this stuff, but are you okay with any level of lockdowns, any level of masks, anything?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I'm not okay with any of it.
		You know, I think it's very easy when people are scared.
		to convince them to give up their freedoms.
		And we saw that.
		I mean, people, hardcore conservatives, suddenly like, "Yes, we should all be locked down,
		"force businesses to close."
		And it's an act of tremendous cowardice, in my opinion, for people not to realize that even in times of a pandemic,
		we still have to have our basic freedoms.
		The freedom for, if you are an individual and you think that COVID-19 is the bubonic plague,
		You should have the freedom to be able to decide to stay at home and lock yourself in a basement in order, you know, seamless and Instacart if that's what you want to do.
		But you should also allow me to have the freedom to open my business and to say, if you'd like to come into my business, you know, I'd love to host you here.
		That freedom doesn't go away because of a pandemic.
		And I think people sort of lost the threat on that because they were so terrified.
		You know, now people have obviously shifted their opinions and people are on my side.
		I tend to take a very bold and strong opinion early on when people are on shore.
		But to me, it was the entire coronavirus narrative was just too perfect and too timely.
		in an election cycle.
		We have to shut down the economy.
		We have to put everybody on welfare and give them stimulus checks.
		You know, nobody can leave their home, so they have to rely on the mainstream media narrative
		because they can't go out and have experiences with their friends that would make them say,
		you know what, maybe it's not as scary as it is 'cause I've been out to a party a few times
		and I haven't gotten the illness.
		So I never trusted it.
		Of course, I think coronavirus is real.
		What I was questioning was the idea that it was some plague-like thing
		that was gonna take us all out if we stepped outside of our door.
		And I really thought it was about mail-in voting from day one.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and by the way, you were taking it from both sides.
		You kind of touched on this because you were giving it to conservatives who were all about a lockdown suddenly and, you know, government overreach, let's say.
		And then I saw like the usual suspects, the lefty blue check people, because you dared to go to Whole Foods without a mask.
		And then there were several blue check people that, blood is on your hands, Candace.
		How many people have you killed?
		How many?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		apparently tons for going to Whole Foods.
unidentified		They were like, "How could she possibly say she goes to Whole Foods every day?"
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And I'm like, "Look, I can't go anywhere because you shut down all of my events."
		I happen to live near a Whole Foods, and I like to look at what they have
		at the meat counter every day.
		So, you know, I, at the time, during COVID lockdowns, I was early in my pregnancy, so I am an asthmatic,
		so I have pre-existing conditions.
		And I ended up deciding to travel the world because I was that convinced of how untrue the narrative was.
		And I was shocked to discover, the second you step outside of America, you realize we're the only ones playing the crazy game.
		When I was in England, there were no mask mandates.
		I went to Croatia.
		They have no idea that there's even coronavirus going on.
		Kids are running around freely, no masks, no social distancing.
		It felt to me, especially when I got home, because I had those experiences, that it was really being manufactured for Americans.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		All right, so I wanna ask a question that I think cuts to the heart of the Candace Owens that I know, but is also the public Candace Owens, which is those first few days when everyone was freaking out, when everyone was really freaking out, and you just took that position of this is BS, this is nonsense, all of that stuff.
		What is it about you?
		I've asked you some version of this before because I even remember seeing your tweets right at the beginning and I was kind of like, oh, Candace, like you might really be stepping in it right now.
		You know, if a week later it turns out that, you know, half of us have this thing or everyone over 60 is dead.
		But what is it about you that you just do it?
		You just get the thought and you're just like, I'm rolling.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think I have very good gut instinct.
		I just always really trusted my gut on certain things, and like I said, it was too perfect, and usually if something seems too perfect, it's because it's too perfect.
		And it was just also all of the media, the death ticker, was very strange to me, like that we've never done that before.
		CNN and MSNBC did a death ticker for every time there was a car accident.
		You'd be terrified to get in your car.
		So I was already seeing that there was a psychological element that the media was playing, because it was just very bizarre to see a death ticker for anything.
		Of course, you're way more likely to get into your car and get into an accident in L.A., but they would never do that.
		And so I really felt that it was just too easy for them to get into the minds of so many people, and I'm so crazy about not being brainwashed.
unidentified		So where do you think we're at with it right now?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Like, do you think Trump should be doing more in terms of forcing states to open?
		Or should he just sit back and let them all do what they want?
		Or where are you at?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Do exactly what he did in terms of sending it back down to state by state sovereignty, because it allows people to really understand who's running their state.
		Depending on what state you're in, you know, you're either living in a communist state or you're living with freedoms.
		You're either living with, you know, Ron DeSantis or Gavin Newsom.
		And it's important people to understand that their leaders are behind this, that they can't just put it all on the president.
		But I do think when he wins reelected November, he needs to he needs to put a stop to this immediately.
		And I'm already seeing governors saying that sort of a thing like Ron DeSantis said he will not lock down the
		state What what is predictable is that there will be a second
		wave which is more deadly?
		Right about now. So we're gonna start seeing that in October and they're gonna start ramping up that rhetoric
		And I think that you know at that moment we need people to start standing up and saying no and we're seeing that in
		other countries Where you know, they've they have been fighting for their
		rights and we need to see more of that in America because you'll wake up one
		And I have not worn a mask, so I'm very proud of myself.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think it's public knowledge that you are pregnant, right?
		I don't have to whisper that?
		Yes, it is public knowledge.
		So you're also six months pregnant.
		We're obviously thrilled for you, but I know you're not going to do something reckless with your health or the health of your baby.
		You're doing what you think is right.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		And, you know, both of my sisters happen to have their first babies, two little boys, in April, so in the middle of lockdowns.
		I spend time with my family.
		I spend time with my grandfather, who is the most high-risk, you know, type 1 diabetic.
		He's 75% blind.
		He has seen all of his family members during coronavirus.
		Because even if you are an old person, you are at risk, who is the government to tell you what you're allowed to value at the time that you have life, the time that you have left of your life?
		My grandfather values being with his great-grandchildren, his grandchildren, and his family, you know, he lost his wife.
		Those people have lived through harder times.
		They, you know what I mean?
		Are you talking about people who have seen real struggle and you're telling them they have to stay at home.
		It's such foolishness to not let each individual to make their own decisions about their values.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you sometimes think that you're sort of like a proxy for other people to live out the sort of boldness
		or something that they wanna live?
		Because if I look at what people tweet at you all the time, a lot of people obviously say mean things, okay, but the people that like you, they're always sort of like, oh, I can't say all this stuff in my life, but Candace just says it.
		So something like corona, I think a lot of people are, even right now, really afraid to say anything close to what you're saying.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, they definitely have come out.
		I've gotten so many emails like, I'm so sorry, I doubted you.
		And now I see how they're, you know, fluffing the numbers or how none of it makes sense.
		And all these scandals are happening all over.
		And I hope that I hope that people see me as a source of inspiration in terms of just being yourself and being audacious.
		And, you know, you know, to an extent, I know, when I first came out, I'll never forget the conversation with Sam Harris.
		He was like, and bless him, but he was like, this is World War Three.
		Like, he was like, You all need to be in our bunkers.
unidentified		You all need to stay away.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		This is the end of the world.
		And, you know, he was just pounding you with all of these facts and people that he knew.
		And I think sometimes people can be so smart that they don't rely on their gut instincts.
		And, you know, I hope that I challenge people to understand that information is constantly being manipulated to make us believe one narrative or the other.
		And sometimes it is best to trust your gut instincts.
		And I'm definitely a gut player and it's served me pretty well.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, by the way, if I'm not mistaken, the little thing between you and Sam, that was started publicly.
		And I think you reached out to me, you made a point of it, and I was able to coordinate so you guys could talk privately instead of doing everything publicly.
		And we talk about that all the time.
		When we see people we know go after each other publicly, and it's like, why didn't you text me?
		You could just call me and maybe I dropped the ball on this one, you know?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		People can fact-check me on this.
		I have never publicly gone after a conservative that has not gone after me first.
		And I go after them because I hate that, exactly what you're saying.
		I'm responding because I'm like, every single one of you has a way to reach me.
		We have mutual friends.
		It's a small, tight-knit conservative circle.
		So when I see people that are tweeting something about me or at me, I know they're doing it for their own ego and for clicks, not because they actually want to have a resolution.
		And to Sam's credit, he tweeted something at me and then immediately, privately said, let's hop on the phone and we had a discussion.
		Hang up the phone and was like, you know, we're just on opposite sides of this thing, you know, and that's fine too.
		That's totally fine.
		Um, but you know, he thought that my tweets were so irresponsible and they were going to get people killed and, um, and I felt otherwise.
		And I just said, you know, we're going to have to ride this thing out because we disagree.
		Um, but I do think there needs to be a bit more of an adult approach on the conservative side in general.
		Like I'm never trying to go after you with claws on.
		If I disagree, I'm happy to have a private conversation with you.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all right, well, let's talk about the other thing, enough about COVID.
		Racism, Candace, it's everywhere.
		There's more of it to go around than ever before.
		It's a miracle that they even let you use Skype right now as a black woman.
		I mean, what do we do about this situation?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think it is really time.
		The challenge now is to just, dear white people, what the hell have you been thinking, allowing this to go on, allowing this to go this far?
		You know what I mean?
		At this tail in between the legs, Hey, look, my ancestors, I can at least say, we were dragged with chains and whipped and beaten into submission.
		White people today, I don't even know what this is.
		This is crazy.
		I mean, I've never seen such people that are just so willing to fight for their own oppression, right?
		To say, oh, I shouldn't deserve it.
		I should step down from my job.
		I shouldn't be in this room.
		I shouldn't be able to say anything.
		I should be silent for a day.
		And it is just such an openly hostile, okay society.
		in terms of treating white people poorly.
		But white people have dug the grave.
		So it's very bizarre to me.
		And I liken it to seeing a parent with a toddler, like if you're at a restaurant
		and the toddler is freaking out and screaming, and there are the parents that give the toddler
		what he wants, and that's like terrible.
		And white America, when they see these radicalized black people, 'cause it's not all black people,
		but they get the attention, right?
		These radicalized black people screaming and wailing about something.
		They just give them what they want, no matter what it is.
		Defund the police.
		Okay, we'll just start talking about defunding the police because you've made that ridiculous, absurd demand that has never been made, ever.
		And so it's hard not to think that this is actually the fault of white guilt, right?
		This is white guilt gone too far.
		You guys are like overdosing on white guilt right now.
unidentified		Not me.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Hey, not me, lady.
		I'm not guilty for anything I haven't done.
		Me personally, but, you know.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And so I always just ask, please stop giving the toddlers in the black community what they want.
		And similarly, I won't give your, you know, freakish little Antifa white thugs what they want, you know.
		And there just needs to be more people having a bit of a spine, I would say, in the white community.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Did you sense that this thing was coming, sort of, like what we were always up against when we would do college events together, and it would be this odd sort of Antifa thing, but we didn't know exactly what it was, and it was a little bit before BLM had like fully exposed itself to me, but all of this, and as I said to you in our other interview, and as we've always done at every event we've ever done together, we take questions from people who disagree with us first, But are you shocked how quickly in the last six months this thing like molded together and BLM and Antifa and the Marxists and the Twitter, like the whole thing just morphed into one really evil monster really freaking fast, all sort of under the COVID thing.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Like it all happened at the same time.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I wasn't shocked.
		I mean, I had been warning about this for years.
		I kept saying during an election cycle, you're going to see race issues drummed up.
		Now, how violent they've gotten?
		Yes, that surprised me.
		And also, I would say I've been shocked by the permission they've been given and the excuses and the passes they've been given by politicians.
		I never foresaw that coming.
		I would think a store gets robbed, looted, torn down, burned.
		And, you know, no matter whether you're left or right, you know, you would stand up and say this is wrong.
		The inability for politicians to now acknowledge what's right and what's wrong, that has shocked me.
		We've hit a real low point when people are saying this is okay, when politicians don't have the spine to say, you know what, I'm actually not okay with defunding the police and we need to isolate this incident and compromise this incident and not say that every police officer is wrong.
		And so I am shocked at how much the left hates America.
		And how much the left hates people that do the right thing, because that's really what it's come down to.
		If you do the right thing, if you earn accolades in life, if you, you know, climb the ladder in life, they hate you.
		And they're saying there's not a place for you anymore.
		There's something fundamentally wrong with free markets, with capitalism, with everything that American and Western ideals and Western principles were built upon.
		So that part shocked me, but not this narrative.
		I was seeing it everywhere I went, and I knew that they were organized, that they were well-funded, and that they were going to come ready to fight.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		How do you see any chance of getting out of this thing?
		I mean, as you said, you expect Trump to win.
		I think you think he's going to win big.
		I think he's probably going to win big too.
		And it's like, no matter if Biden wins, if Trump wins, if Biden wins big, if Trump wins big, it's sort of like, I don't see a way we get out of this either way.
		I could see some version, maybe, Where if Trump wins by truly a landslide, like a Reagan re-election situation, that maybe finally the last few decent Democrats get the kids out of the adult table.
		Like the kids that they've let taken over, that's sort of what you were saying before.
		Maybe they do it themselves.
		But that doesn't seem very probable to me.
		Do you see any way we get out of this thing?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only way we get out of it is if people, and I think we are actually going to, are starting to get out of it now in a weird way, because people are starting to see socialism manifest, right?
		Marxist principles manifest.
		They're looking around their neighborhoods and they're seeing, you know, stores being looted, stores being robbed, violence happening, police getting shot, individual cities that are gone up in crime by something like 267%, right, in New York City and in Chicago.
		And they're seeing that the suburbs are now being threatened.
		They're going to come to the suburbs.
		They're telling people in the suburbs to leave their house.
		You saw, I'm sure, the video clip.
		Maybe you didn't because you were away, but throughout D.C.
		they were going up to white people at restaurants and saying, put your fist up and say, you know, black power or else you get screamed at.
		So these people are now seeing you've supported this and now you've seen what it's become.
		And I think that once those people understand now, not once they see that manifest, they'll change their perspective.
		And they'll vote differently, right?
		And then, of course, once the Democrats, if the Democrats lose a ton of seats, it no longer serves them to be funding these Marxist movements.
		It no longer serves them to stand behind the violent criminals.
		It no longer serves them to pretend that these criminals were righteous.
		And you'll see a dramatic change in society.
		And I think that it will secure, as it did in England, and I'm hoping to see what we saw in England, where after Brexit, it just, every vote went to the Tory party.
		I think that we will see the same thing in America and we'll save this country for a lot of time to come because people will not forget this.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I sense you're kind of right.
		You know, I hate when they say the gay community, the black community, the community thing, I hate that.
		But, you know, I saw this poll just since I've been back that at one point, I guess, post the convention, 24% of black people were thinking about voting for Trump.
		Historically, we're looking at like 4%.
		You know, I tweeted something like a year ago that I thought Trump was gonna get 30% of the black vote.
		And I know that might be a little crazy, but I still, I think that, The mask has been pulled off, and I think something crazy is gonna happen, I really do.
		Are you with me on that?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		100%, you know, I've been saying this forever, and I was laughed at in the beginning, right, when I first said Blexit, and I said that my vision had always been 20 points by 2020, I knew it was possible, because the left can no longer hide from itself, and I was so happy when AOC hit the map, because she was just saying it, you know what I mean?
		The old school Democrats were good at hiding what they wanted, And then AOC kind of took over their party and said, no,
		this is what we want.
		And they capitulated to what she was saying.
		And so they couldn't lie anymore. Right.
		They couldn't lie about the fact that they were supporting these Marxist principles
		and the destruction of family.
		Black Lives Matter on the website, destruct the nuclear family.
		You know, this is wrong backwards.
		So and I've just seen so many people, the people you least suspect that have
		contacted me privately, celebrities that you would just go, this person posted a black square
		with persons of Marxist and just going, I've had an awakening and I would like to have a
		a private conversation with you offline.
		And I think that, that to me, it just made me feel just so happy, like all of this hasn't been for naught, all the beatings that I've taken, it hasn't been for naught.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, so I think I asked you this six months ago, so I may be asking you the exact same question from six months ago in the same interview, but since some time has passed, we both know what the publishing world is like and it takes a long time to get a book out.
		And as you said, because of COVID, you guys delayed it and you wanted to be able to promote it properly and the rest of it.
		Are you totally confident that everything that you laid out in Blackout, that these extreme circumstances and the strange time that we live in, it's not going to alter any of the things that you were writing about?
		Do you feel like it's all timeless enough?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I actually added a chapter because of, you know, my George Floyd video, which got something like 200 million, 100 million views just on Facebook.
		I wanted to double and triple down on everything that I said in that video and really talk about what the Black Lives Matter movement is and just remind people who tried to bully me out of having that perspective that I meant what I meant and I said what I said.
		That chapter that I added was really just about culture, black culture, that we've done this and it's time for us to take responsibility.
		Our culture is broken, that we have music that's broken, and we are encouraging people to believe in this gang lifestyle, and this stripper lifestyle, and this baby mama lifestyle, and it's time to stop blaming white people and realize that we've done this to ourselves, and we're the only people that can dick ourselves out of this hole.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and people seem to be waking up to it.
		So I'm guessing you're not a huge fan of WAP.
		I just heard about WAP.
		I'm a little behind.
unidentified		WAP.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I don't think you and I will be coordinating a dance to that anytime soon, unless you want to.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You've seen me dance.
		It won't be pretty.
		Actually, literally, the last time I danced was at your wedding, and it's probably the last time I'll dance for the next year anyway.
		So it seems like, I mean, I can tell, I said to you right before we started the recording, you sort of have that pregnant glow to you, but you seem like particularly happy to me, which, You know, these days everyone, when I was off the grid and people would recognize me or come up to me or if someone came to my house, everyone would say, oh Dave, it's so much worse, it's so much worse.
		And it struck me how depressed people are by the news.
		You know, I try to, I take this stuff seriously and I know it's serious, but I also do try to separate myself from it.
		That's why I do the August thing.
		I'm so happy.
		It's crazy.
		You get a ton of hate, as I said, you get a ton of love, but like you really do seem happy
		in the midst of all of this, which I think is probably weird for some people to see.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I'm so happy, it's crazy.
		I wake up every day and I'm the happiest person and it can seem totally bizarre,
		but my perspective is just that all I've ever wanted was for in this crazy game of political poker,
		for the left to just lay down all of their cards and show us their hand and they're doing that.
		And so there's this quickening happening right now where people are starting to finally understand my perspective, the perspective of so many other people that have been fighting alongside me.
		I mean, on top of that, I have a husband that I love.
		I recently got married.
		I'm having a baby.
		I'm having the easiest pregnancy ever.
		I work out all the time.
		I'm just happy vibes all the time.
		And I right now also am sensing, bizarrely, that even amidst all of the different conservative connections, that we're all starting to bond a bit better.
		And we're starting to understand that we all have different strategies.
		us fighting and pulling each other wasn't really working.
		And I just, I sense more unity in the conservative movement and more focus, which I'm thrilled about.
		And so I just have nothing to be upset about.
		I literally am the happiest person.
		I'm just like, guys, it's all gonna be fine.
		We're fighting, we're on the good guy side.
		The good guys always win, so.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		The good guys always win.
		Well, listen, Candace, we could do a lot more, but I actually think that's the perfect moment to just give people the other hour that we did together, and it stands on its own.
		But I just wanted to chat with you anyway, so that's why we did this mostly.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Guys, never forget that when I was coughing blood, my friend wanted me to get tested for COVID-19.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, Dave Rubin made you eggs!
		Made you eggs!
		When you didn't know where you were gonna sleep that night.
		That really, I mean, people can't understand.
		It's not just that you were telling me you were coughing up blood, but you're coughing, you're sneezing.
		We're watching the NBA season got canceled, I think, right then.
		I saw the video.
		And then your assistant was with us, too, and she's coughing, and she's sneezing, and they're telling us we're all gonna die.
		And I let you stay till about nine o'clock at night.
unidentified		You did indeed.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		That's a true friend, guys.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		Candace, it was great seeing you as always.
		We're going to play the full interview now, and I hope to see you in real life one of these days.
		I think we're going to make it happen.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good, guys.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Enjoy the interview.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		How long has it been?
		It's been about...
		Since the original interview.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Did I launch that in 2017?
		You were one of my first interviews.
		You and Paul Joseph Watson were my first two.
		So I think that was 2017.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so let's say it's about three years.
		You were on the show one other time for some other thing.
		We'll just let that one be for now.
		Not important to get into that one.
		Some people probably know what I'm talking about, but it doesn't matter.
		But yeah, so it's been about three years.
		At the time, we were doing YouTube Week here.
		And I just tweeted out, I need to find some YouTubers that are interesting.
		I want to do five shows with five different YouTubers in five days, blah, blah, blah.
		A couple people said you got to check out Red Pill Black.
		We watched your first video, which was sort of about announcing to your family that you're a conservative.
		That kind of caught you on fire.
		We brought you in here.
		Feels like another lifetime ago, doesn't it?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Because it was. It definitely was another lifetime ago.
		It's totally bizarre to consider that that was just three years ago,
		and how much has gone on, and how much has changed, and how much I've changed, how much I've grown, things that
		I've learned.
		And I feel like when I was sitting across from you those years ago,
		I was so naive to what I was about to be thrown into the middle of.
		For better or for worse, I was naive.
		And now I'm much more seasoned, much more experienced, and much more sure of myself.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		How have you managed to stay sane through the machine?
		Because, yeah, you really were just, I mean, a kid in a certain way.
		I feel like we were kids, and it's only three years ago, and it's not like we're 18, but we were sort of kids in this thing.
		You started just saying what you thought.
		One of the moments, we've discussed this many times privately, where I was like, oh, Candace is the real deal, is there was a question that I asked you about the surveillance state in that first interview, and you basically said, I don't have an opinion, I need to know more.
		And I was like, well, nobody does that.
		That's where you're supposed to make up some shit.
		But you actually said that, and I thought, this is someone who will learn going forward.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I think that's definitely what separated me from other people is I've just remained really authentic.
		I'm not trying to be an expert on everything.
		I've been honest about the fact that I'm learning.
		And I say now that I've pretty much grown up politically in front of everybody's faces.
		They've seen my awkward braces, to use an analogy, my brace phase and the pimple phase of me being in politics.
		And there were things that I genuinely did not know I had never heard of because I spent
		my entire life not being politically inclined.
		And then suddenly I'm on your show because I just had a feeling more than a fact, right?
		I had a feeling that black Americans were being duped and that none of it really added
		up, none of it made any sense.
		And I wanted to convert those feelings into facts and start really doing the work and
		studying and some people wanted to push me as now you're the leader, you must know everything
		and I wasn't ready to do that.
		And other people were trying to make me stand by the, go through these purity tests, if
		you will, the purity and conservatives.
		And then I have a left trying to destroy me, the purity and conservatives trying to prove
		that I wasn't what I was, I guess, held up to be.
		And it was crappy.
		It was really crappy because I'm sitting here going, guys, I'm literally just telling you
		I've been authentic.
		I haven't said that people should be following me over into another area or anything like
		that.
		But I survived it because I'm authentic and I wasn't scared.
		I was never scared to be myself.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Why not?
		Not scared to be yourself, but why weren't you scared by the attacks?
		Like when Twitter puts their lead story is basically, you know, on the search bar was like, you know, something like Candace Owens is all right, which eventually they took down after you respond because you always punch back.
		But what do you think it is about you specifically that, you know, because a lot of people fear this thing.
		They know who they are, they want to fight, but they just fear the monster.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think it's for me what's really aided me is perspective.
		So I've had people, they're all stressed out about Twitter and Facebook and all these things, and to me, I think first and foremost, being someone that came from nothing, you know, a person that was not raised in a family that had any financial means, Who grew up poor my perspective is a bit different and I think to myself if the biggest complaint I have today Is that I'm trending on Twitter about something that I didn't say or taking out of context and I'm remarkably blessed a Couple of generations ago.
		My grandfather was picking cotton and laying out tobacco to dry on a sharecropping farm I couldn't look him in the face and say I've had a really stressful day because I'm trending on Twitter That's not what I said.
		So it's just perspective.
		Yeah, you got you have to and I also have a tremendously good sense of humor Yeah, you do, you do.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is the part of you that is actually political?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Because you don't really strike me, like, when we hang out separately, like, we always talk politics, but we talk about a lot of other stuff, and it's usually cultural, what we're really talking about, but you're thought of as, like, this political beast, like, oh, Candace is going to be president, or Candace is going to be a senator, you know, something like that.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I remind people of what Andrew Brebart said about politics is downstream from culture.
		It's such an important thing.
		He's so accurate with that.
		The reason why things weren't changing and conservative ideas weren't winning in society
		is because conservatives by and large suck up their nose to culture.
		And I say that as somebody who had to go through the conservative ring of fire too.
		People know obviously the left routinely attacks me and that they've attacked me since I started
		making YouTube videos, but they forget that conservatives attacked me too.
		You know, one of the first hit pieces that was written about me was written by the National
		Review and I'll never forget the sentence, "This is the sort of conservatism that we
		we need to reject is what they wrote.
		Because I was making funny videos, because I was making people understand big concepts, because I wasn't writing a 95 thesis and stapling it to a wall and saying, here you go guys.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Right, you weren't in a think tank funded by a gajillion dollars.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was just on YouTube taking some complex topics and being conversational.
		And that same kind of vein of conservatism are the people that thoroughly rejected Donald Trump.
		Donald Trump is cultural.
		He takes complex topics and he dilutes them down to something that feels tangible, that somebody who's a normal individual that's a hard worker can understand.
		Hashtag lock her up, right?
		He's saying a lot in there, right?
		There's corruption.
		It's been going on for a long time.
		Something needs to change.
		It's a swamp, right?
		People hate how colloquial that is, but people respond to a more colloquial manner in how I speak.
		I don't speak to my cousins like I'm giving a thesis paper.
		I talk to them conversationally, and that was my style.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, Candace, as someone that's had dinner with that Trump guy and has been to the Oval Office and done other things with that Trump guy, I thought, I thought he hates black people.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I saw on CNN he's a racist and a homophobe.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
		And I think I'm, I'm fortunate.
		It's fortunate.
		that the media continually overplays their hand.
		It's fortunate because it's the reason that I exist.
		And anybody who has a modicum of intelligence knows that this man has been in the media for decades.
		He was never accused of being racist, sexist, bigoted, homophobe, none of those things.
		And then suddenly he runs for president of the United States
		and he's all of those things.
		So for me, it just gave me pause.
		And I just said, this can't be right.
		I, by no means in that moment when he came on the escalator thought he should be president of the United States,
		but I also wasn't dense enough to believe that as he came down that escalator,
		he suddenly became the literally Hitler white supremacist that CNN and MSNBC tried to turn him into.
		So I appreciate the media and them constantly smearing and libeling people
		because I think that it's actually, it's working in our favor
		and it's working on the side of truth because more people are questioning
		their relationship with the media.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So how does someone like you balance the identity politics
		that you hate that we constantly mock.
		Versus, as you always say to me, you just want black people to think for themselves or have black people realize they don't have to be Democrats.
		So it is twanged with identity politics, right?
		Brexit is twanged with it.
		And I always say, when people ask me this, that I have to use their rules against them, sort of, something like that.
		But how do you balance that?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Well I think it's understanding the difference between identity and identity politics.
		So I am happy to be black.
		I think black can be an identity.
		I think Jewish can be an identity.
		I think part of your identity can be, if I was pregnant and I wanted to take a class and sit around with a bunch of pregnant moms and talk about the struggles that we're going through, that's not identity politics.
		That's all of us coming together because we share a certain identity.
		and we're talking about certain things that are relevant to us.
		Black Americans convening to talk about things that are relevant for them is identity politics.
		If I was using Blexit and at our Blexit events we were saying,
		"You need to vote for Donald J. Trump. You need to stop being a Democrat and start being a Republican."
		That would be identity politics.
		Because of the color of your skin, it's quite the opposite.
		We're talking about why the color of our skin and the dialogue and the race dialogue is meaningless.
		We're talking about taking responsibility for things that are going on amongst our communities that we have been the perpetrators of.
		We talk about police brutality in a real context.
		We talk about that weight against black-on-black crime.
		I think the only way the black community gets fixed is if the black community sort of realizes that we do have an identity, that we've made a lot of errors, that we continue to make a lot of mistakes, and we say, you know what?
		It's time for us to stop blaming the white man.
		It's time for us to stop looking externally and to start looking internally on how we can make a difference.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So when you see Trump do the State of the Union, and he talks about the lowest black unemployment all the time, and immediately the headlines say, no, no, no, that was because of Obama, which even if perhaps some of that is true, perhaps, well, the guy didn't wreck it, so that seems pretty good.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But more importantly than that, when you see the Congressional Black Caucus, and they sit there with their arms folded over the lowest all-time black unemployment, now that, Something doesn't add up there.
unidentified		Right.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And it doesn't add up because when Obama gave his State of the Union and he announced more food stamps and more welfare, they stood up and they applauded.
		That got a standing ovation.
		So that's the kind of stuff that you can just use to ask black Americans, why is that?
		Why did Rashida Tlaib walk out?
		When Trump announced that less people were filing for welfare and food stamps.
		She said she walked out and she said they were having something taken from them and she just couldn't bear it anymore and she walked out.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well she also said impeach the motherfucker the day that she got elected.
		I mean literally.
		So it's like was this a fair judge of what's going on here?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And what you realize is that what they want for black Americans is to be a permanent underclass.
		They need black Americans to be dependent upon the government.
		And that's just the truth.
		And we are dependent upon the government.
		By and large, we are dependent upon the government.
		We've allowed the government to come in and father our families, you know, with the Great Society Act in the 1960s, systematically removing black men from the home.
		And making black women bitter.
		And that's an interesting thing and one that I haven't talked about enough, but people always ask me, you know, what are some of the issues facing the black community?
		We're not a community.
		We don't know how to communicate.
		We don't know how to do conflict resolution, especially black women.
		And you know, this whole stereotype of an angry black woman, where does that really come from?
		I've been having those sorts of early conversations.
		Well, it comes from the fact that black women have had to do things by themselves because they've allowed the government to tell them that they should be doing things by themselves.
		And after decades of allowing this whole baby daddy phenomenon to break out into our communities,
		and now we're saying to men they don't need to be responsible because the government will
		step in and give us more money if they're not inside of the homes.
		You have this new epidemic where you have black women that are upset, they can't really
		pinpoint why it is that they're upset, and nothing's really changing and nothing's really
		been productive.
		So there's so much that's fractured in my community that has nothing to do with white man, the Jewish man, the Hispanic man, nothing.
		We have accepted government as our source and our solution for everything and simultaneously broken apart our families.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So one of the things that I think you've explained really well, which is right off that, is that generally, again, the black community, which is a bit of an amorphous term, generally, actually, the values usually do lean more conservative, and it's only through sort of media tricks that they don't realize that, something like that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Can you talk about that a little bit?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		I mean, we're naturally conservative.
		I mean, even when all of the candidates were running and people were trying to take Pete Buttigieg seriously, and I immediately said, this is all a farce.
		Pretending that Pete Buttigieg is going to be the presidential candidate for the Democrats is a joke, because he's gay, right?
		And he's a gay married man, and he's running as a Democrat.
		And the Democrats need the black vote.
		The black community will not vote for a gay married man to be the candidate.
		That's just a fact.
		Whether people like that, it makes them uncomfortable, it doesn't mean anything.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So is that a religious thing, do you think?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		It is tethered to Christianity, absolutely.
		And black people are deeply faithful and every poll showed that, right?
		And you saw the left is ignoring that piece of evidence.
		Oh, well, we're not going to look at the fact that black people are polling very low and then they're not okay with the fact that he's married to a black man because they don't want to accept reality.
		So, that first and foremost, right?
		So, on the LGBT stuff, the black community is fiercely, fiercely, fiercely conservative, especially when it comes to the trans stuff.
		There was a remarkable video of a black pastor, and you can't see what he's looking at, but there's a congregation, and he looks straight down at the man, and he says, you need to leave this church.
		What would you like to see?
		I don't care what you do outside of this church, but when you come here on Sundays,
		you come dressed as a man.
		And he was speaking to, obviously, a trans individual, a man that was wearing a dress or dressed as a woman,
		and he kicked him out of the church and the entire black congregation started applauding.
		Right, that is the black community on LGBT issues, right?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		If you ask--
		What would you like to see?
		Would you like to see something change there?
		I mean, as someone that I know, you have a lot We're friends.
		And by the way, I completely separate the T thing, the trans thing, from the gay thing.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		But what would you like to happen?
		I think that what I'm talking about right now is just the reality in terms of black people leaning more conservatively naturally.
		100%, I hope that the black community is at the forefront of standing up to the trans stuff.
		I never want to see that change.
		And I think that it is incumbent upon the gay community to expel it.
		You take the T off or we're not playing the game, right?
		If you're saying that now this is a package deal and that somehow you being a married gay man means that in order for me to accept that I have to also take drag queens and men that are dressed as women and them being allowed to go into women's restrooms, no.
		I'm not playing the game.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, the other part that I hate about it is that I have no more insight into what it is like to be a trans person than you do.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I am in the body I am supposed to be in.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They have nothing to do with each other.
		You're talking about a sexual preference versus a mental disorder.
		A mental disorder is the right way to call it.
		You are telling me that your mind and your physical are out of order, right?
		That that is a mental disorder.
		Whether you want to call it a physical disorder, a mental disorder, it is a disorder, right?
		To conflate that with a sexual preference, which doesn't impact me, right?
		But does you being married to a gay man impact me?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You've been here for many nice dinners.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Does it impact me?
		Does me being married to a straight man impact you?
		Okay, but if suddenly, like I said, a part of you accepting the fact that me and my husband are married means that you have to also accept the fact that, you know, your child is now going to be exposed to men dressed as women and be read to by a drag queen and over-sexualized and all of the stuff that comes with the trans movement, which I view as evil.
		I really do.
		It's something that I'm very opposed to.
		That's what I see is where it gets problematic, and there needs to be more gay people speaking out against it and saying that we're not just gonna let you put this on our wagon, right?
		And so, I mean, that's something that I'm passionately against, and I've been against it since I've been on your show.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, well, Douglas Murray, who I know you've talked to, I mean, he's, and who happens to be gay, I mean, I think he's really led the charge, the book's over here somewhere, where he separates these two things, they just have nothing to do
		with each other.
		Just to clean all of that up for the people that will clip this and go,
		"Oh, Candace hates trans people."
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They've been called transphobic a thousand times.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		How would you like if a trans person that worked at a place that you work at
		or a trans person that you met on the street or had coffee with or something,
		how would you like them to be treated under the law and the rest of it?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They should be always be protected.
		This concept of, like, because I don't want to now adapt my life to the way that you preferred to lead yours, now means that I somehow think that you should be harmed or hurt.
		No.
		This is America.
		You should be afforded the exact same protections that I'm afforded under the law, right?
		But if I woke up one day and said that I was Superman, and I said now all of a sudden we have to legislate the fact that I think I'm Superman, That's crazy.
		I mean, we have to accept that there are various other disorders, too, in this world, mental disorders in this world, people that suffer from schizophrenia, bipolar, all of these things.
		The difference is that we encourage them to get help and we don't demand that the whole world pretend and shift to accommodate their various illnesses, right?
		If somebody is schizophrenic or somebody is suffering from split personality disorder, we don't say, okay, well, you get two votes because you're...
		You think you're two people, right?
		That's the trans argument.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Patience, patience.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Patience, you're right.
		Give it just a couple of years, Democrats will be on that too.
		But that's the trans argument, which is that because this is what I'm going through, gender dysphoria, which is very real, by the way, everyone now must adapt and we must pretend that there's 36 genders when there's just not.
		And then to call people that acknowledge it and can see reality for what it is, bigoted.
		or saying they have a phobia is just wrong.
		And it's not an area where I'm willing to give up any yards on the football field.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so when you see Trump addressing, you know, the employment issues with the black community
		and you understand that from your perspective, that the black community is more,
		I just hate saying the community word.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		It just- Black people, blacks.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but even that, because of course there's just all these different types of black people, of course, but by and large, or whatever you want to call it.
		So unemployment down.
		He's also doing some stuff on criminal justice reform.
		I mean, we were at, in D.C., we did an event and we went to the Trump Hotel for a drink.
		Help me with the woman's name that we met, the woman that he got out of jail.
		Oh, Alice Johnson.
		Alice Johnson, yeah.
		I mean, he's done some pretty good stuff there too.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		He's done some really good stuff.
		And I will say this, it's great that we're addressing some of these older policies that were put in place, first and foremost, like the things that were put in place by the Clintons themselves, that definitely did disadvantage black men.
		And I've realized that I do see a disconnect, and this is where I go separate from a lot of conservatives on this issue, because I have found that some conservatives are hardcore on criminal justice and they say, "You did
		something bad, you locked up, throw away the key and you're done with it."
		And that to me shows that they have not had much of an experience with people that end
		up in the system.
		I do agree that above a certain age you commit enough crimes, basically it becomes very hard
		for you to come back from that.
		But when people are young and they're committing their first offense and it's the first time
		they're going into prison.
		So much change can happen.
		Their circumstances are usually being led by, you know, I have uncles that have spent their lives in and out of prison.
		When you're completely impoverished and your back is against the wall, when you don't have your father at home, sort of the natural direction that you trend to is towards the streets because you will pursue that paternity elsewhere, right?
		So if you are not getting that guidance from mom and dad because they're not at home and you're not having dinner around the table at night, You're still gonna want somebody to be the mom and dad.
		So that leads you to the streets.
		That could lead you to culture.
		That could lead you to hip-hop.
		Suddenly, Jay-Z and Kanye or mom and dad, whatever, they're telling you, if somebody's saying, grab a gaggle outside, you think that that's the direction that you should be into.
		So there's so much that happens when you talk about the fatherless problem that we have in the black community.
		And if you can get them in prison and you can make just small differences in terms of helping them transition when they get out, You know, I've been in prison for two years.
		You're going to give me $50 and a bus ticket, and you expect me not to go back to crime?
		Those are the things that are really important, and I spent some time two years ago visiting some prisons and speaking to the inmates, and it really woke me up to that.
		Now, on the other side of that, and where conservatives are getting it right, is that You can't make the argument that because there's a lot of black people in the system, that the system is rotten.
		Black people, we commit more crimes.
		That is just the truth.
		We are disproportionately represented in the prison system because we are disproportionately committing crime.
		It goes back to that thesis of, we gotta be more responsible.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a lot there.
		Okay, so why is this stuff so hard for people to understand, do you think?
		Is that purely just because of the cultural aspect that you just constantly get the reverse message?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not hard for people to understand.
		People don't want to understand it.
		I say now that nobody ever won an election cycle on the slogan of be more responsible, right?
		Nobody wants to hear that.
		Nobody wants to hear be more responsible.
		And that's the truth.
		A lot of these things and these issues that we have in society are because people are not being more responsible, because people are making bad decisions.
		And unfortunately, going back to culture, yes, we have a culture that tells us it's okay to not be responsible.
		So it's okay to offset all of your issues.
		It's okay to blame external institutions for the problems that you're dealing with internally.
		So it becomes easy.
		And like I said, looking yourself in the mirror and saying, "I am bad in this way,"
		or, "I need to correct this," it's hard.
		And most people just don't have the humility to do it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Do you find it funny the way they always end up turning it on themselves too?
		So once you use racism or sexism or homophobia as the tool, it always ends up coming back on you.
		So, like, Cory Booker gets out of the race.
		Next thing you know, Cory Booker's saying that, you know, it's because of racism.
		Any of the, any, Elizabeth Warren gets out, everyone says it's because of sexism.
		But it's like, guys, it was the Democratic Party.
		It was your people.
		It wasn't those evil Republicans.
		It wasn't those evil conservatives.
		It was your people.
		So you're saying your people are racist?
		And actually that is what they're saying.
		And perhaps there's some truth there.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And what they say basically is if I don't get what I want, there's something bigger happening.
		There's something bigger going on.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		How sweet is that?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		It's the best thing ever.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And actually, I was just responding to a tweet when I came in here, but the woman who had that big mathematical hysterical, did you see that on MSNBC?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Gay is her last name.
		Is it Marcy Gay?
		Yeah, I think it's Marcy Gay from the New York Times.
unidentified		500 million.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		That basically Bloomberg, with the 500 million that Bloomberg spent on the campaign, he could have given every American a million dollars.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		A million dollars.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and Brian Williams agreed with him.
		And agreed.
		Apparently the researchers and all, it's like, we're in here, I got a couple crew members in there, but we're just doing our thing.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It's like, nobody's got no IFB here with someone telling me numbers.
		They have a whole series of people in there.
		And yes, 500 million could actually give a million people to every American.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		350 million Americans.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So her math on that is 500 million divided by 350 million Americans.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But putting aside the math mistake, I don't think that's where you're going with this.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Because then she tweeted, I don't know if you saw this yesterday.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw it, I saw it.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		She's written an article saying that the racist mob is not going to stop her because she had to endure racism because of her mathematical error.
		And how pathetic is that?
		Really think about that.
		This is what really frustrates me.
		This whole concept of black people being strong.
		Are we acting strong right now?
		No, we're acting pathetic.
		You can't accept that people are mocking you.
		Because you did something that was ridiculous and embarrassing.
		You know what would be strong?
		You owning it and making fun of yourself.
		What would be funny would be you going on Saturday Night Live and doing a whole skit of you trying to calculate things and making you likable.
		People would go, ah, that's the girl.
		Just laugh at yourself.
		Have a sense of humor.
		We all make mistakes.
		We all sometimes get it completely wrong or say something ridiculous.
		But for you to say even something that small, right?
		You make a mathematical error, and you're still able to transform that into a moment of racism because black people cannot be wrong at anything, Even when they're literally, factually, mathematically incorrect, it's because people are racist.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And it's such a trap door, too, because Brian Williams came off looking as ignorant and confused as she did, but Brian Williams didn't make an excuse for it.
		You know what I mean?
		And also, I quickly glanced at the Twitter feed when she posted the New York Times article, and it was like, people weren't calling her racist.
		There was nobody saying anything racist.
		Nobody was saying, oh, that black woman is stupid because she's black.
		There was nothing like that.
		It was basically like, you're both idiots.
		It was a lot of that.
		Not to say that no racist person got in there and said something.
		Lord knows that I'm sure they did.
		But the knee-jerk response to go, oh, my get-out-of-jail-free card is this.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, and what it really speaks to is the fact that I really believe that in this moment in time, black people are looking pathetic.
		The people that we have leading, culturally, look pathetic.
		This whole, you know, Jussie Smollett is pretending he's launching racist attacks on himself.
		Hiring big black men.
		If you're gonna pay to do it, pay some white guys!
		At least go with it, so when we see the images, it looks like you maybe thought it was white people that were doing this to you.
		But it's...
		It's happening more and more.
		And another example of that is there was a young black girl, and I can't think of her name at the moment, who said that white boys attacked her in school.
		It was Karen Pence's school that she teaches at.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And they cut off her dreadlocks and they called her racial slurs.
		The entire thing was made up, right?
		What bothers me about that situation of that young black girl doing that is that it's not her fault.
		Right?
		She is now being raised in an environment where black people are aspiring to victimhood.
unidentified		Right?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		She's seeing her idol.
		She's seeing the Colin Kaepernick's, the Jussie Smollett's, the whoever this is that wrote for the New York Times.
		Aspire to victimhood.
		Like you get an award at the end.
		Like you get a trophy and this is an amazing thing.
		You get to be a victim.
		and you get to be a star now, because everyone's gonna come behind you
unidentified		Yeah.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		and they're gonna feel bad for you, you're gonna get awards, you're gonna get accolades.
		So this poor young girl, I actually genuinely, my heart hurt for her
		because she was so young.
		And for her to do that, there was no other reason than she's a product of an environment of black victimhood.
		And there's not enough black Americans that are able to take a joke, right?
		Just basic things I say to you, you know what, I'm not living in this simulation of white versus black.
		And that's what I think that is going to be the next natural generation of black kids, just wanting to be a victim all the time.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So when you've gone to Blexit events and do all of the things you're doing, do you sense that that thing is just basically ready to crack?
		Like when I've seen the videos of the events that you do, it's like the joy that is in that room.
		is incredible.
		It's absolutely incredible.
		It's way more joyous than if you were to go to some event where you'd be up there going, you know, the Republicans did this to you, and we're gonna give you more of this.
		Like, there's no joy related to any of that, and people want to be joyous.
		And one of the things you always told me from the beginning is how pissed you were that the way that black people stopped being funny Because black people are naturally funny.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They're naturally funny.
		Black people, Jews, naturally funny.
		There's something about going through struggle that gives you a sense of humor.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the outsider look.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		The blue collar perspective.
		And a sense of humor gets you through tough times.
		It really does.
		And that was kind of, we cornered the market on that, on a sense of humor.
		And I always talk about the old standup routines.
		And Bigger and Blacker is the one that comes to mind.
		It's the one I watched most recently.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Just a great, It is a perfect.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		It's a perfect San Bernardino.
		You know what's perfect about it?
		Because he's so racist to everyone.
		He goes in there, the first thing he says is, yeah, white people are in the back tonight, right?
		And then everyone starts laughing.
		And by the time he's done, he's insulted black people, the baby mama drama.
		He's insulted white people, Jewish people, school shootings.
		He even went there at that time, this was in like 1990, but he starts being like, oh, that's a white person crime.
		You know what I mean?
		They talk about the differences between white crimes and black crimes.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's got that great line about, He's like, people think black people don't like Jews, but like, we hate all of you!
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we hate all of you, yeah, right?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And everyone's laughing, and it's this incredible moment, because by the end of it, you suddenly realize that you all kind of suck, right?
		And you're in your various ways, and you feel closer, and you feel better for it.
		That is what humor is always supposed to be.
		It was always supposed to be medicinal.
		It was supposed to be a way of saying that like, your problems aren't as big as the problems of the person next to you, and we all suck, and this is kind of the condition of life, and we're doing this together.
		You can't do that anymore, right?
		If he did that skit today, go back and, I mean, go back and watch it.
		He would be canceled before, I mean, it would be insane.
		It would be insane.
		He would be canceled before he got out the first joke and they'd be like, this is, this is not funny.
		I can't white people in the back tonight.
		This is completely inappropriate.
		I mean, like, that would be the critics today.
unidentified		Yeah.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Oh God.
		It's all, it's so nuts.
		Or look at, look at, what's his name?
		That guy, he was going to host the Oscars, Kevin.
		You know what, a tweet- Kevin, what's his name?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Kevin Hart.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Kevin Hart, yeah.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a tweet- From years ago, one- More than 10 years ago.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Joke, gay, whatever.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, and I'll tell you what's wrong with that, the bigger issue with that.
		The first thing is he shouldn't have backed down, and I thought that that was an example of black people being pathetic.
		He should have stood his ground, and that's what I love about- Give me the black community and Dave Chappelle.
		I love Dave Chappelle because he stands his ground.
		He, to me, is saving black humor right now and people won't realize until his legacy settles of what he's doing.
		But aside from that, remove Kevin Hart and think about this next generation of kids.
		We were afforded... Facebook started when I was in high school, right?
		So I got to be a kid.
		There was no social media.
		My dad had a beeper when I was growing up.
		And I got to be a kid.
		And what I mean by I got to be a kid, I got to be a crappy human being.
		Because part of growing up is experimenting with being a crappy human being.
		It's looking you in the face and saying, you know what, you're fat, right?
		I either liked the way that sounded or I liked the way a person reacted.
		Okay, you know, I was a mean person.
		I didn't like that.
unidentified		Yeah.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		trying when I had AIM, like, you know, just something mean to say,
		yeah, I can say whatever I want.
		And we didn't have a society who could capture our old, God, could you imagine if the old AIM chats came back?
		They'd be like, "Candace is canceling third grade for saying something."
		My handle was Bratz, Brat for life.
		Like, you know what I mean?
		Like, really ridiculous stuff, but the purpose of growing up is to experiment
		with who you want to be.
		And kids are notoriously mean.
		They're picking on each other.
		They're getting bullied.
		And now you're saying to kids that what you do, even if it's 20 years ago, you can get wiped out.
		You could say something in a WhatsApp, and if it gets pulled out, your chances of employment, your chances of going anywhere, you're done.
		You're canceled from society.
		If people don't realize now how that's going to contribute, to depression and suicide.
		To me, it's just something that nobody has thought about that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's anti-human actually, because it is your job as a human to say what you think,
		to be who you wanna be, and they're trying to model for young people,
		no, don't do it.
		Well, that's why I always say, I mean, that's why you're dangerous.
		You tell people the complete reverse.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		People have said to me, by the way, political advice, you know, Candace, every six months you should just go back and cancel your tweets so they're not lingering there.
		I go, why?
		Why would I be?
		If someone brought up a tweet from nine years ago, I'm going to be like, yeah, I changed my mind.
unidentified		Right?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I also don't think Barbies are the coolest thing anymore.
		I changed my mind since I was three years old.
		Right?
		Evolution is normal.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Even with that car.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		She's got that cool car.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		She's driving in Malibu.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I should go back.
		But people, what the left has done is they've made it seem like there's something fundamentally wrong about evolution, like it's not supposed to happen.
		We all evolve.
		We all evolve.
		You are not the same person that you were 10 years ago.
		You're not going to be the same person in this room that you're going to be 10 years from now.
		That is a part, that's a part of the human condition.
		And when you start to acquiesce to that mentality and you say, I'm going to just delete, you know, I said something in a tweet that I should have maybe not said, I'll just delete it so I don't have to pay for it 20 years from now.
		You're acquiescing to something that people will not be able to survive in the future.
		So I keep it up.
		Because if somebody asked me why I said that, I would say it doesn't matter if I said it, the question is, do I still believe it?
		Right?
		That's the better question to ask me.
		Have I evolved since that opinion?
		Not that there's some harm in having a thought, or having the wrong idea, or being wrong in the first place.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, it's not just your thoughts that they want you to worry about, it's other people that you're associated with's thoughts.
		So sometimes scary Candace Owens tweets something and I'll get a text message from somebody, like a public person, and they'll say, Dave, Candace said that, you know, are you gonna say something?
		As if you're my pet, I keep you in a little bag.
		And it's like, oh yes, I control Candace and I have any right to tell her what to do with the rest of it.
		But even that idea that it's not just what you say, it's that now we want to keep you And I don't play that game.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, I think that's also something that separates me from most conservatives.
		You know, people that go mainstream and I, for what it's worth, have gone mainstream.
		I obviously do the big networks.
		I've been on Fox News.
		They suddenly start being very careful about who they associate with.
		Like, you have to pretend you don't speak to certain people, or you don't know certain people, or else, you know, you might catch it, whatever it is, right?
		Yeah.
		And case in point, Paul Joseph Watson was the first person to have me on his show.
		You were the second.
		Yeah.
		And Paul Joseph Watson and my husband are friends.
		So I'm supposed to pretend, because Paul Joseph Watson used to be the editor-at-large at InfoWars, that I don't speak to Paul Joseph Watson, he and I aren't friends.
		I'm not gonna do that.
		I can't be fake, right?
		So if you think that some condition of me saying, well, Candace, you can only stay mainstream is if you pretend that you don't speak to anybody that's ever been associated with InfoWars, that's crappy.
		And conservatives need to stop playing that game.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, also because so many of these people, and we see this all the time, and I won't out people right now, but that are privately going to parties together and going to dinners together, but then won't associate publicly.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, I hate that.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		It's fraudulent.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I despise it.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And that's why you're seeing this uprising, by the way, of conservatives who are saying, these are the neocons.
		And what they're really getting at, and I don't agree with a lot of their ideas, is that people are scared.
		At the same time that you're saying you're fighting the left, you're playing by their games.
		So if you're going to say that you hate InfoWars, I don't watch InfoWars, I've never watched InfoWars, because they're fraudulent and they're fake news and all this stuff, but you'll go on CNN.
		I don't know how that works, right?
		If you go on a network that routinely refers to people as white supremacists, Nazis, and all this stuff, to me, I have my ideas.
		These are my ideas about black America.
		Whether I'm speaking to you, whether I'm speaking to Paul Joseph Watson, whether I'm speaking to Don Lemon, whether I'm speaking to somebody on Fox News, I'm the same Candace.
		Right?
		So the environment that I'm in doesn't really matter for me because I'm not sanctioning their ideas.
		If I go on CNN, I am not agreeing with everything Don Lemon has ever said.
		If I'm going on The Room Report, I am not saying that I agree with everything that you have ever said.
		And conservatives should stand by that.
		That should be across the board.
		Like, it is okay to speak to people that you disagree with.
		You're not going to catch something if you talk to people that you do not agree with every single thing that they say.
		And that there's a cowardice about that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, also you see this crazy version where putting whatever you might think about in force, and I also, I was on once, I did Alex Jones once, but I've literally never watched it.
		You know, I see these memes.
		Well, you don't see them anymore because people are afraid to get banned, but you see memes of the guy screaming and gay frogs or the rest of it, whatever, it doesn't even matter.
		But Trump gave his big coronavirus speech last night and I was watching CNN because I do try occasionally to flip through just to get a feel of what's going on.
		And CNN comes back and it's, Chris Cuomo and Jim Acosta, and they immediately go into, within 30 seconds of Trump's speech, he gives probably the most important speech the president's given in at least a decade or something, right?
		And they immediately go to his xenophobic language.
		Yeah.
		Right.
		That's not news.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's not news.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		That's not news.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I totally agree.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And I think that--
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You guys, CNN, you were calling it the Wuhan virus two weeks ago.
		Right.
		And now because he says it's from China, it's racist.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's true.
		And this is the environment that we're in, unfortunately.
		And I think that it's incumbent for conservatives not to play by the left's rules.
		And what I mean by that is even, you know, I don't watch him for words, but I think that pretending that Alex Jones is this big villainous character is wrong.
		It's wrong.
		I think that we know people watch him, I assume, from what I've seen the clips, it's like the WWE of politics, like making voices, sounds, like entertainment, you know what I mean?
		And all of these, to pretend that every person that watches him is like some young white supremacist in training is just irresponsible and sloppy.
		And I just try to be authentic in terms of the way that I view all people, and I'm not going to suddenly, because I'm accepted into the mainstream, you know, pretend that, well, I'm not that kind of conservative, I'm not that kind of whoever it is.
		And I think there's been a lot of that in the conservative movement, and we need to stop that sort of like Puritan, I guess a Puritan perspective that I see a lot of people are holding right now.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So I wanna get into some of the things that we disagree on.
		And we actually, I just did your show yesterday and we unearthed a lot of it and hopefully we can take it a little further right now.
		But what do you make of the never Trump conservatives who are now suddenly, they were like all suddenly socialists.
		Like it was like one thing to be never Trump.
		That could be your position.
		So, so be it.
		You don't like his attitude.
		You don't like the way he tweets the rest of it fully.
		You may not like his policies from a right perspective, but they're suddenly all like, they kind of like Bernie now, or they're like all on team Biden.
		It's like one thing to be against one guy, but how can you be a conservative and be for Biden or something like that?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So here's what I'll say.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So, and correct me if I'm wrong, Glenn Beck used to be a never Trumper.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Glenn Beck, but he was on the right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So Glenn Beck was in Never Trump.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So I'm gonna use the best example because I spoke to Glenn Beck.
		I did a show a few weeks ago.
		And what we talked about was we were talking about evolution and saying that like, you know, there were tons of people that were Never Trump, you know, good reasons or bad reasons.
		like, you know, people weren't sure about him, myself included, when he first came down the escalator.
		The people that have kept that up at this point, or have said, are just suffering from extreme arrogance,
		right, and they kept it up so much that they're now saying,
		oh, I'd rather be on the side of socialism.
		You're basically saying that you want so badly to be right about this person that you have been so against, right,
		you've taken such a hard, drawn such a hard line in the sand about hating him,
		that you're actually willing to accept things that you know will fundamentally reverse
		the country that you live in, and that will fundamentally break down
		the fabric of America, just so you can be right.
		I can think of no greater example of narcissism.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's just like this perpetually endless, well also because the outrage, it sort of goes to what you were saying before, it's like they need this endless outrage to kind of keep this machine, that's how they define themselves.
unidentified		Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So you need it, and it's always a lot easier to be the complainer than the doer.
unidentified		Right.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Like that's it right there.
		But alright, let's get into some of the stuff we talked about yesterday, because you were asking me, you were going, Dave, and I've heard it before, Dave, what do you mean you're still a liberal?
		You're still a classical liberal.
		Come on, you're a conservative and we unearthed some of that.
		One of the things I said to you is what I would love to see a space for people on the right and conservatives or Republicans, whatever you want to call it, to carve out some room for sensible pro-choice people.
		And I don't really see it right now.
		And my position would not be to try to convince people on the right to be more pro-choice at all.
		But I happen to agree with people on the right about most of the other things, so I'd like to see a bit of a wider tent there.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope that I have carved out that space, because I felt the same way when I became a conservative, that it was like, you need to say all of this instantly and agree with all of this instantly, or you're not really a conservative sort of a thing.
		And I think that there needs to be, exactly what you said, a wider tent, and we can't become what we hate.
		The left puts everybody up to these purity tests and says, if you agree with me 99% of the time, but you disagree with me 1%, you're not allowed to be on the boat.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Not just on the boat, now we have to drown you.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Now we have to drown you.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It's like we have to tie some rocks to your feet.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, you gotta go overboard, you gotta walk the plank.
		And I think that we have to be conscious as conservatives not to do the exact same thing.
		And I know that in terms of the pro-choice thing, I have been a person that I think has been more accepting than anybody in the conservative movement.
		Because, you remember when I was sitting on your show and you first asked me and I said, I'm gonna kind of not say what I think about this just yet because I wasn't ready and I didn't have my opinions formulated on the basis of fact yet.
		My opinion is that I'm pro-life.
		But I know that there are a lot of young women who have made the decision, this is what I was struggling with, I had so many friends and family members who had made the decision to have an abortion.
		And for me to then say that they, you murdered your baby, you're a horrible human being, you're irredeemable.
		It would have been inauthentic, and that's why I wasn't ready to make that leap.
		But instead, you know, I had a remarkable conversation with a woman, and who is strongly pro-life, and had three abortions.
		And she said that she had her come-to-God moment where she realized that she was doing this thing and she was having these abortions because she was a part of a society that told her it was a clump of cells, right?
		So you're forgetting that you have these young girls who are, they don't want to murder their offspring, right?
		but they're growing up in a society that is mocking, making abortion seem like it's a really easy process.
		If you go in, you're gonna be fine to clump yourselves.
		You have the girls now doing the TikTok videos, making fun of like, you know,
		how easy it is to get an abortion.
		You've got Miley Cyrus and her abortion cake with her tongue out half naked.
		You've got Michelle Williams on stage.
		I think it's Michelle Williams on stage accepting an award and giving a speech
		about how happy she is.
		She killed her kid and she's holding a trophy.
		Well, this is what's raising your kids, culture, right?
		And so how can you fault a young girl who goes in and makes the decision at 19 years old
		to remove a clump of cells and then tell her she's irredeemable
		and that she's a baby killer?
		That's not creating room in the conservative movement.
		What you can say instead is that, you know what?
		You may have made that mistake when you were young.
		You may have done something when you were young because you thought you hadn't evolved and you thought that you were making the right decision and the best decision based on societal pressure which tells you, when you're a young girl, your whole life is going to be ruined if you're not married, you don't have all of your finances figured out, and you have a kid.
		That's what you kind of learn in school.
		And this is the responsible decision to get an abortion.
		But you can change your mind.
		And you can actually be one of the loudest voices for pro-life.
		Actually, it holds more weight.
		If you're somebody that's converted away from it, and similar to me being a person that was a liberal and converted away from it, it actually holds more weight.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So what if you actually don't go that far and you're still, say, more, where I would say we're, to me, first trimester, do I believe it's a life?
		Yes, because that clump of cells you're talking about, if we found it on the moon, everybody would say it's life, right?
		So, like, I'm not playing the life game in any way.
		But do you think there is room for people that would say first trimester, or a couple weeks, or some version of that, we don't have to give an exact number, in the conservative movement that they don't view it as necessarily wrong, but just like an awful choice to make, or that they worry about whatever the health defects are, or health to the mother, or the rest of it?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, so I think first and foremost, the most important thing that you're doing is you're acknowledging it's a life.
		That already makes things so much better.
		Like if the left acknowledged it was a life and taught that it was a life, abortions would decrease.
		No one would even be arguing about it in Congress anyway because abortions would magically decrease.
		Remember that it was like not even a debate, right?
		Because people would suddenly realize it's a baby and I'm making, it's a heavier decision because it is a baby that I'm going and determining, a pregnancy.
		There's a real living thing inside of me.
		So the education, to me, is 90% of the battle.
		The second point, in talking about people who abort because they have a special needs child, it would be really crazy to say to people who have responsibly planned to have a child and have saved up their money and done everything the right way and they find out that their child is going to require much more money, much more time, To say to people, no matter what you have to have, this is now what you have to deal with.
		This is what God gave you.
		Would you like to think that in every scenario, people say, you know what, this is what God gave, this is the burden that God gave me.
		I don't mean to call a child a burden, but this is, I guess, a test or a struggle that God is putting my family through for a reason.
		And when people do that, it's incredible.
		And it's beautiful.
		But to expect, rather, that every single person is going to do that,
		to have the means to do that, especially when I know a person
		who has a severely challenged child, physically and mentally.
		Aside from the financial burden and not being able to afford anything,
		and the stress, and breaking down people's relationships, and things of that nature,
		their biggest fear is that when they're done taking care of their child, no one else will.
		That their child is going to the system.
		And to tell a parent to just accept that reality, that when you die, because you are going to die first,
		that your child who is in a wheelchair, can't help themselves, can't feed themselves,
		and can't do anything, is just supposed to be given to government
		and hope that other people take care of them is a burden that parents should just say okay
		and give no thought to.
		I don't think that's realistic.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, and by the way, conservatives don't want those programs too.
		So if you were to, That's a tough one.
		Do they have a responsibility?
		up to a certain point or tell, no, if you were to tell people
		that they can't have abortions at all, do you think the state then has a responsibility
		to take care of more of those children?
		You know what, that's a--
		'Cause that's a tough one for conservatives, right?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		That's a tough one.
		Do they have a responsibility?
		Well, if it became a law--
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		If abortion, if Roe v. Wade was flipped and all of the states suddenly said,
		abortion is illegal, period, now people start having abortions.
		And first off, we know, like, the uncomfortable facts about this are that people of a certain economic level will still get abortions in a safe manner.
		There will be ways.
		Will some people that aren't economically able to do it do it in back alleys and the hangers and all the horrible stories?
		Of course.
		So you create this weird economic thing also.
		But if the state was to say no more abortions, period, Does the state then have a responsibility, I guess from a conservative perspective, to help these people?
unidentified		I don't know that I've ever heard a good answer on this.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I think the good answer is that the state is already doing that.
		The state is already, when you're talking about what having a child is gonna be a financial burden, I'm talking about healthy children.
		This is what I really disagree with.
		The healthy child and people are just like, inconvenient, throw it away, inconvenient, throw it away.
		I mean, look at the welfare system right now and the various people that we support and take care of and all these different things.
		So pretending that this is gonna be like, Right.
		you know what what more can they get a welfare check and which i'm against by
		the way i don't know if you should be raising people's children and paying for
		these things and the economic argument here is that when the government
		actually stops taking all of our
		our money and giving it all these various programs it's been proven that
		people get more people are more inclined to charity
		uh... who gives more to to autistic causes of people that have autistic
		children right uh... people uh... who whose parents have uh... suffered or
		died from alzheimer's the ones of the most inclined to get to alzheimer's
		research I think that we've gotten into a place in society where we don't realize how charitable people are when they're not being robbed blindly by the government.
		So I'd like to think that, as a community, people would want to take care of one another, especially people that have lived through those situations before.
		They'll be more inclined to take care of one another.
		But that's a way bigger question that requires more thought of, like, if you start forcing people to have Special needs children, if they were going to abort it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Not even special needs children.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		If someone just wanted to have an abortion and the state said you can't, and then they force that person to bring the baby to term, what is the state's responsibility?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So it could be someone with... Typically you have children that grow up in group homes.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So it's happening already?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's already happening.
		That's already built into the system because there are tons of people who just morally don't want to have abortions.
		There are tons of young girls who make that decision and their story is just not covered.
		I knew a girl who I worked with when I was interning at Vogue.
		And she had already had a child and she gave it up for adoption because she morally as a Christian did not believe in having an abortion.
		Beautiful little girl, she has a relationship with her and she just was not ready to be a mother.
		I actually think that one of the biggest things that we need to start fixing and addressing is our adoption system.
		If you talk to any parent that wants to adopt a child, it's like impossible.
		It's like they got to jump through 10,000 different hoops by the time you thought you were going to have a baby and now you've got a 10-year-old because it took 10 years to go through the paperwork to be able to adopt a child.
		So that would be, I think, an area of interest for me is looking at what is the system if you want to adopt a child and why is it so complicated when we know that there are tons of people that are having children, healthy children, that necessarily don't know if they want to take care of them.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		What do you say to all the people that are like, oh yeah, it sounds right, you should just stop all the programs and stop the food stamps and stop the government assistance and the subsidized housing and Section 7 and blah, blah, blah.
		Yeah, it sounds right, you should just stop it, but you rip that Band-Aid off and then all hell breaks loose.
		We've talked about this a little bit before, because that's where I always see people say, ah, she just doesn't get it.
		These people are gonna suddenly be all out on the streets at once.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I'm so against the welfare system.
		I mean, I'm fully against the welfare system.
		It has nothing but hindered people.
		We've learned the lesson over and over again.
		If you incentivize people to do nothing, they will do nothing.
		And that is exactly what the welfare system does.
		It needs to be revamped.
		It needs to be corrected.
		I mean, rip it off like a Band-Aid.
		Probably the best, because if people know nothing's there to support them, they're going to figure it out.
		That is human nature, right?
		If you know that a check is not going to come, you're going to figure out how you're going to eat.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I've heard people say, well, over a course of a year, you could slowly keep reducing benefits, but I suspect that most people, just because it's human nature, it has nothing to do with skin color or anything else, will still keep the same habits, thinking that at the end, it will start coming back again, because that's what the government always does.
		You know what I mean?
		I think if you slowly take it away, that people actually won't change their habits, really.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I think they would, and I say this as somebody who has family on welfare.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I was giving you the argument for rip it off, because it almost seems like the shock and awe is almost the only way to do it.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess I was misunderstanding what you were saying there, because what I was saying is that if you said to people when they went on welfare, you only got it for one year.
		And that's it, it's over.
		They would have in their head that timeline.
		I got one year, I gotta live in a playroom, and I gotta get off of welfare.
		The problem is that it's perpetual.
		And it just keeps going.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I mean.
		It's almost like it's gone on for so long that they wouldn't even believe the government would ever stop it.
		So, like, you get the paper and the paper says, well, guys, starting today, you know, we've been doing this for 12 years, but every month, We're cutting 10% till it's gone.
		They'd just be like, nah, it's not happening.
		And then most likely the government caves because politicians get on TV and you see what they're doing to these mean people, they're doing to these people, it's the mean Republicans.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's gotta be something that someone does in their second term.
unidentified		You know what I mean?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, nothing you can do here, it's just happening.
		But yeah, there definitely needs to be just a complete revision of the welfare system as it is.
		And I'm not saying that there aren't some people that actually have legitimate claims to health.
		This is, I'm saying that there, maybe there's not some people that have legitimate claims to needing an abortion for medical emergencies and things of those nature.
		But when it becomes the norm, the overwhelming majority of people are taking advantage and making horrible decisions and placing a burden Yeah.
		on people like me and you who get up and have to work every single day
		and somehow have to support their lifestyles of, oh, every time I have another baby, I get another check.
		That's incentivizing bad behavior.
		I'm just gonna keep having babies, knowing I can't afford them.
		That's the whole reason I'm on welfare in the first place, but knowing that the government
		will give me more and more money.
		It's just, honestly, it's just human behavior.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't it also strike you as like a sort of very dim and depressing view of what humans are,
		that unless the government forces us to do things, We'll never do anything good for people.
		You know what I mean?
		Like there are charities that I give to that I don't run around screaming about or I try to do some good things in my life and treat my employees right and the rest of it because I believe that it's on you versus like these people that think if you if we don't demand that the state does everything no Not one will do anything good.
		You're actually saying much more about yourself than you're saying about people in general.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, and they're wrong.
		I mean, you can literally look at when the taxes are lower, Americans give more.
		When the taxes are higher, Americans give less, and that's because they're having their own money taken away from them.
		So they can think that all they want, but they're fundamentally wrong.
		And I don't think that the majority of them even think that, especially not the leaders and the politicians.
		I think that you just, especially on the socialist side of the argument and the Bernie Sanders and the AOCs, I think they genuinely just want power for themselves.
		And the best people to make a plea for power are people that are impoverished and don't have that self-confidence to believe in themselves.
		To go to them and say, your life is not your fault.
		You know, it makes them feel better.
		That's right, it's not my fault.
		It's not my fault that I had five kids out of wedlock.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		It also makes them such heroes, right?
		I mean, AOC is such a hero.
		Bernie is such a hero.
		He can help all these people.
		Never accomplished anything, but.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They help all those people and they get behind them and it's just easy votes for them because people, at the end of the day, are lazy.
		If you tell them they don't have to do anything and they don't want to do anything, they're not going to do anything.
		So it's an easy political strategy.
		But I think what I try to tell people is that if you just wait, right, if you just Go through the hard work, and yes, it's not going to be easy, because life is not easy, and we're all struggling, and you can have a bad day tomorrow, even in the midst of having a great year.
		But if you just wait, and you put a little bit in, and a little bit more in, and you do this every day, day in and day out, that feeling that you get when you accomplish something, the feeling that I have right now sitting across from you, knowing that I now run two businesses by myself, and I started my life as a girl in a roach-infested apartment.
		you wouldn't trade that feeling for the world.
		The government can't do that for you, that feeling of accomplishment.
		And that's what I think is being taken away from individuals, knowing how good it feels
		when you get to the finish line.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Ah, that's good.
		We should end there, but we're not ending there.
		But that was the right ending.
		Let's just do a couple more of those sort of what the conservatives can do to maybe be a little more open that we talked about on your show.
		So one of them was marijuana.
		So I told you my feeling is that marijuana should be legal.
		I don't care if the states do it.
		I'd prefer not the federal government to do it because I think it should be a a state's rights issue and if Colorado passes it
		and you don't like it, then you can move somewhere else.
		And if you move somewhere else and they don't have it and you want it, then move to Colorado and the rest of it.
		That's how I like the American experiment to work.
		Most conservatives are pretty much against legalizing marijuana at either level, excuse me,
		and they sort of take this odd approach because you would think that they would want
		the government out of people's lives.
		How do you sort of arbitrage that?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		So what I've noticed is, first and foremost, there seems to be a disconnect with a lot of conservatives about the effects of marijuana.
		I know like, I've spoken to some people who have never spoken marijuana, smoking, smoked marijuana in their life.
		And I'm actually, I'm thinking of someone I used to date who had never smoked marijuana in his life.
		And what was really interesting about it is that he, He had it in the same category as heroin.
		I was just impressed with how wrong he was about what people do when they smoke a joint.
		He thinks, I don't know, maybe it's like a methamphetamine.
		They get up, they go rob a gas station, rob people.
		And the truth is that it makes people, in my opinion, impotent.
		They sit on couches.
		They want to eat a bunch.
		They're laughing.
		They watch movies.
		They're definitely not going out and committing crimes and things of that nature.
		I think the conservative argument is that it's a gateway drug.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I think I've heard a lot of people say that.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They love that, that argument.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		But then it's like, well, alcohol's a gateway drug.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was gonna get at.
		So I had this debate with Rick Santorum.
		Actually, he was sitting next to me and he was talking about the marijuana thing.
		And I actually didn't really have a stance on it.
		I just like to engage my brain and debate people when I think that they have something that's fundamentally missing in their argument.
		And he was drinking a glass of wine and saying that marijuana should permanently be banned because of its bad effects.
		And I said, well, how do you reconcile that with you drinking wine?
		And you know, I go years in and out of not drinking alcohol.
		I'm not drinking alcohol this year, didn't drink alcohol when you met me.
unidentified		You had one good year in there, though.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		My wedding year!
		We had a good time.
		You can't not drink when you're getting married, because everybody gives you alcohol.
		It's the only gift you get for a whole year until you get married.
		But so I'm saying that, I'm seeing him drink this glass of wine, and I'm wondering how he's reconciling it.
		And he says, oh, well, this is different.
		Well, tell me how it's different.
		Well, alcohol is different for me if I'm drinking alcohol in my house and I'm like, well, that's exactly their argument for smoking pot.
		And I said, actually, if you want to talk about having a worse impact on society, alcohol causes way more deaths.
		People get drunk, they go home, they beat their wives, they party.
		They make mistakes, you know.
		It is the gateway.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Car accidents.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		The car accidents that happen from DUIs, which is higher than, by the way, people that are killed by guns every year.
		Look at the deaths by mortar vehicles.
		Nobody's talking about taking people's cars away.
		We don't all have to give in our cars.
		So I said that to him, and I think he was starting to see, I was like, if you're gonna make that argument, you need to make the argument more soundly.
		Because you either are a person that believes that there should be, you should abstain from everything, And that society is just better off without everything?
		Or if you're saying that people should have the right, the personal right to engage in drinking and getting blacked out drunk at bars so long as they don't drive themselves home, then you're gonna have a hard time arguing that people shouldn't have the same right when it comes to pot.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Right, and it's funny, because for someone like me, it's like, well, I see the conservative perspective.
		Conservatives really want to do what they think in the long term, over generations, is good for a sound and secure and safe society.
		I'm not saying marijuana is for it or against it.
		I mean, I've told you I smoke weed maybe once a week.
		I watch The Simpsons at 11 o'clock and I pass that on the couch.
		I don't hurt anybody.
		I have never robbed a bank on weed.
		And I probably do eat too much popcorn on weed.
		That would be like the one thing, you know?
		So I understand their argument of like, but if you just tell people that this is okay, then they'll go, oh, something else is okay, or this is okay.
		But you can't stop human nature.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And for the same people that don't want to legislate a lot of stuff, I think it's just a dangerous, Yeah, I don't smoke pot and I say to people, I would recommend people not smoking pot because I think it kills ambition.
		Some people are different.
		People like you are like, I can smoke and go to bed and get up and do what I have to do the next day, but I think overwhelmingly it kills ambition.
		Now, as a free market capitalist, I'm fine with that because I'll crush the competition.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		That's the answer.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the answer.
		I always crush the competition, so if you want to smoke your pot and stay in bed, I'm gonna go run the world.
		But yeah, I think it's hard.
		I think it's really tricky, and I understand that argument of like, well, then they'll be looking for the next thing.
		They'll be looking for the next thing once you say that's okay, and that's true, but I just don't see, I don't see how I can make a sound argument when people are okay with drinking alcohol.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		So you would basically kick it to the states, which is sort of where it's at right now.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		And then there's the other argument where I said to him, and by the way, I was just saying this for the sake of arguing, you know, because I just like to debate ideas.
		I said, do you think that legislating, did it stop people from smoking pot?
		It didn't actually, it didn't.
		I don't know any person that I went to college with that did not smoke pot.
		So when it was illegal, it wasn't like people weren't doing it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Right, and the funny part is now, I don't know if there's, there must be some studies on this, but now that it's legal by states, I doubt many more people are smoking weed because it suddenly got legal.
		Because it was so ubiquitous everywhere, you could get it anywhere.
		So I don't think suddenly somebody was like, well, it's legal, I'm gonna smoke pot.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Everyone that I knew was smoking pot before it, and by the way, most of them ended up stopping at a certain age, and because it became legal, it didn't make them go, oh, now I'm gonna go out and do it.
		So it's like, when I first drank, I wasn't 21 years old.
		You know what I'm saying?
		Right.
		The legality of it being 21 years old.
		Yeah.
		That'll come back to haunt me when I dig this up 30 years from now.
		The legality of it, the law saying that I can't drink until I'm 21
		did nothing to stop me from drinking well before I was 21.
		I mean, I drank in high school.
		I drank when I was 15 years old, 14, 15 years old, literally, was the first time that I got drunk
		and I continue to drink.
		Somebody's older brother or sister would buy us a pack of beer and do all that nature.
		So the idea, what's bad about that concept is the idea that like, if suddenly it becomes legal, suddenly people will get in line.
		It's a faulty argument because we already know that people don't follow the laws.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		George Carlin has a funny line on pot, which is like, he's like, most drugs, you do them and you want more and more and more.
		Pot, like, you're like smoking and one day you're like, okay, I've had enough of that.
		You know, like, that's pretty much it on that.
		Okay, so we talked abortion, we talked marijuana.
		The other one we talked about was sort of a carving a space for secular conservatives.
		And I'm really curious about this space because I've had, have you talked to Heather MacDonald on your show yet?
unidentified		No.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		From the Manhattan Institute.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		She's a great free market capitalist and thinker.
unidentified		Yeah, I know her well.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		She did a lot of great work on the Diversity delusion, yeah.
		So you should definitely talk to her.
		I'll connect you guys and she's wonderful.
		She is a secular conservative.
		She's been an atheist or an agnostic her entire life.
		She said she was never a believer.
		She was brought up in a totally secular home and she thinks that there's a strong secular argument for conservatism.
		Most conservatives I don't really think that.
		I would love to see, and you know I've had my own sort of spiritual awakening where I am a believer, and I certainly believe for a society to organize more than anything else, it has to have some underlying set of beliefs.
		And our founders talked about God-given rights and the rest of it.
		Do you think there is space for that?
		Because I feel like this one makes a lot of conservatives nervous, like that they would let them in, these godless people or something, and that they're gonna somehow, Yeah, I definitely don't think they're going to rattle anything.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I think actually once you invite people into the conservative movement they'll naturally I think they'll naturally tread towards spiritualism, and here's why.
		You can't say that you believe in Western civilization without acknowledging that there would be no Western civilization without Judeo-Christian beliefs.
		Judeo-Christian beliefs is what brought the world forward.
		Any studying of Western society brings you right back to the early Greek miracle.
		And what was the Greek miracle?
		It was an understanding, a move away from the tribalism that naturally followed a polytheistic worldview, right?
		So when the world used to believe in polytheism, when everybody thought there was a rain god and a sun god and a god for your illness, whatever it was, They were naturally more tribal because they'd sacrificed.
		I'm going to kill 26 kids to sacrifice to the rain god today.
		And there was no sense.
		There was no sense of reason.
		There was no morality.
		Because this, everything was, oh, crikey, the rain god must be pissed off.
		You know, I must sacrifice this goat to the rain god.
		Or, oh, crikey, our crops are dried out.
		I must sacrifice this.
		And there was no thought process.
		And then the Greek miracle happened.
		You know, this concept of freedom, where people started to think more and philosophize.
		And we had those early philosophers, you know, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates,
		who started saying, what if there's just one?
		What if it's one God?
		And what if my actions actually matter?
		What if morality matters?
		It was that, that was the beginning, that was the breakthrough where we started,
		they started to really start to believe in freedom, right?
		And they developed this monotheistic worldview and it reshaped everything.
		It is literally the beginning of Western society that happened with that Greek miracle.
		And then what then transpired beyond that was once they started to realize that, wow,
		like maybe there is a higher power and maybe my actions do matter,
		they naturally started to say, wow, then that means we have to question everything
		that we've ever done that was immoral.
		And they eventually got to the concept of slavery, which was done everywhere in the world, until they had started thinking about, once they started, the Christian people led the world in ending slavery because they said there is no longer,
		there cannot be a moral ground for slavery.
		It matters, my actions matter.
		And that was when we saw slavery get abolished, led first by the French colonies.
		I think French colonies were first, followed by Britain, followed by America.
		You know, the old white men, the terrible, horrible white men,
		they led the world in ending slavery.
		And that was the reason why, right?
		So if you fundamentally understand why the West is the best, why the West is great,
		how the West became the West, then you do know that you can't untether that
		from Judeo-Christian belief.
		So I think that it's, You invite them in.
		You can be atheistic and you can be conservative, right?
		But if you really understand what you're trying to conserve, right?
		When you start doing the work, which I had to do, which is like, I know that I'm conservative.
		What is conservatism?
		What am I working to conserve?
		What I'm working to conserve is Western society.
		What I'm working to conserve is the idea of freedom.
		What I'm working to conserve is that early Greek miracle that happened.
		And I cannot tether that from Judeo-Christian belief.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Man, you're getting good at this.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		A little bit of work.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		You gotta read some books and really not just ask yourself what you believe, but ask yourself why you believe it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		All right, so speaking of books, I don't have a copy of Blackout here.
unidentified		Don't.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Because the galleys have not arrived yet.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		They have not arrived.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		The galleys are on the way.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I know that a lot of what we discussed here, obviously, is what Blackout is about, but what maybe did I miss or should we hit on?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Um, you know, so Blackout for me, it was, I really wanted to first and foremost lay out my personal story.
		There's been a lot of conjecture about where I came from, how I became conservative.
		Is she a fraudulent conservative?
		And all of that craziness because people don't realize that I just was apolitical, if anything else.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		To be clear, you're not some sort of secret agent.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		No.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		really have been there through all of it.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I've been there since the beginning.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the YouTubers, digesting my entire life, saying she must be a plant, I mean a Soros plant.
		I'm like, I've never even voted.
		Yeah. I literally, prior to getting into things,
		I genuinely just was not politically inclined.
		And I just thought I had to be a Democrat and thought I had to be a liberal.
		And, you know, looking in the retrospect, I realized how foolish that is.
		You know, that I didn't realize that everything that bad happened in my life was really routed to bad policies and bad politicians.
		But I wanted to first lay out just my personal story.
		You know, the subtitle of the book is how Black America can make its second escape from the Democrat plantations.
		And I do believe, I say this all the time, people get upset, that black Americans are still enslaved today.
		That the left just got smarter and they realized that you can't enslave people, their bodies, you can't have black Americans on the plantation anymore, but you can still have black Americans doing all the work for you and reaping no benefit.
		And that is a structure that we see today between black America and the Democrat Party.
		We are doing all of the work, we carried them over the finish line, and we benefit not in one single way.
		And so I really kind of lay out that argument and talk about what slave life was really like, the breakdown of family, why it was necessary for families to be broken down, to trade, constantly be trading slaves from one plantation to the next.
		They could have no feelings for one another.
		Frederick Douglass, in his autobiography, The first couple of pages where he starts talking about his life as a slave, he talks about the fact that when his mother died, he felt nothing.
		When his sisters were traded and taken, he felt nothing.
		He had no sense of kinship, no familial love for his own blood.
		That was necessary to the institution of slavery.
		We still have that kinship and that relationship and that community still broken down all of these years later, despite the Reconstruction era post-slavery, which we saw black American families getting back together.
		We were doing something!
		It's all been wiped away.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		At a higher rate, by the way, until about 72 or so.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in the 1950s, black Americans were outpacing whites in terms of economic growth.
		And then immediately following, you know, the 1960s and the Great Society Act and the systemic oppression, which started via the welfare system, everything started falling apart.
		uh... and uh... reading another another topic about talking going back to
		slavery uh... black americans it was legal for black americans
		learn how to read in fact it was so legal that if you were a white person you
		were taught anywhere in your car teaching your sleep to read
		uh... you would be found guilty to it was a serious sin the reason for that is that because they didn't want black
		will be educated because educated my campaign slate
		Well, what's changed?
		Look at the illiteracy rates in black America today.
		Look at Baltimore.
		Look at the inner cities.
		Look at where in California.
		California, 70% of black boys could not pass a basic literacy exam.
		Nobody is talking about that.
		You have politicians that are standing on stage saying that all they care about is black Americans.
		They're not talking about everything that is harming black Americans today, everything that is recreating the very same plantations that we came from.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Did you catch that brilliant line that Bernie had in one of the debates, which is he wants, he's not only so pro-marijuana that he wants it to be legal, but he also wants to have black business owners owning black marijuana shops.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, I did not catch that.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		And again, I say this as someone that's pro-legalizing weed, but we're gonna incentivize black people to own black marijuana shops in black communities.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Right, and that's why I don't celebrate, by the way, why I am conservative on the marijuana front, is because when you talk about where this is happening, Chicago, I think, just passed marijuana laws.
		It is.
		To me, I know it's going to lead to more dysfunction amongst black America first and foremost because that's how it always is.
		What is it about progressive policies that always leads to progressive results for the black community first and foremost?
		So I am loathe to be smart enough to see the debate between alcohol and marijuana so that I can't firmly say no to marijuana, but I have a thinking brain and I just don't see how conservatives can make a sound argument against it at the moment.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		What else has to happen for the black community to break?
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I'm gonna guess, although I don't have the book yet, that at the end you either make some predictions or you tell people what tools they need to really break out of this.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, it's not even about making predictions, and I have my own personal predictions, but I definitely am not doing that in the book.
		I'm giving black Americans a guide.
		I'm giving black Americans an option.
		The same option that I saw before me when I started waking up and I'm having this conversation with you.
		You can have the option to accept this victim narrative.
		You can have the option to say, I accept this diagnosis of cancer even though I feel fine, walk fine, and have been living fine my entire life.
		I accept that it's a terminal illness and I'm going to live like I'm going to die any moment.
		Or you can develop a different perspective and you can develop a victor mentality, as I say.
		Forget the victim mentality, develop a victor mentality.
		Look back at your ancestors, look back at your grandparents, look back at what they did, what they lived through, the seeds that they planted so that you can afford to be in the circumstance that you are in today.
		If you are a black American and you are breathing in the United States today, You are the luckiest among the luckiest of black people that have ever lived anywhere on the face of the planet.
		That is an incredible statement.
		All of human history, the luckiest black people that have ever lived on the face of the human planet are the ones that are living and breathing in America today.
		Okay?
		If you understand that, and you should understand it by simply saying, where would you like to live in Africa?
		For all that hoopla about, they took us from Africa.
		Find me a black American that will tell you they want to move back to Africa.
		I will, listen, right now.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Or Europe.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		I'll book the flights for them.
		For any person that says we were stolen from our ancestors, I, Candace Owens, am pledging that I will book the flights if you renounce your U.S.
		citizenship for you to go live back in Africa.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You want to cap this at maybe a 10 people, just in case people are punking you?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		There's none, there's none.
		We did the same craziness with the Trump, I hate America.
		Everyone offered their money in flights, I think you might have.
		Yeah, I offered a couple.
		Nobody took the bait, right?
		Because they know America is the greatest place they could possibly live.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		You know what, if someone takes you up on this, I'll guarantee one first-class upgrade.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I will do that.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		There you go, right here.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I will do that.
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		First class upgrade to go to America, but you have to renounce your citizenship to America and move to Africa.
		That's really what you want to do.
		And look, you look at Africa today, this whole concept that we were taken and we were kings and queens, like this weird myth, like this Disney story, this Disney fairy tale that we were all running around kings and queens and enjoying the crops and the fertile land and all that we had.
		evil white men came with their guns and started punching us.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		Wait, you're telling me Zimbunda's not a place?
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		(laughing)
		This is really what the story has come down to.
		When in fact, we were sold by our own ancestors.
		We were already living in terrible situations.
		We were already slaves.
		We were already being enslaved.
		We were enslaved first by the Arabs.
		The Arabs were the first to enslave Africans.
		And we were sold for things as meaningless.
		Talk about how tribal their society was.
		We were sold for gin.
		We were sold for mirrors.
		Imagine Africa.
		Look!
		Mirror, oh, I'll take 20 of my strongest men.
		Thanks for the mirror.
		Take 20 of my strongest men.
		These are the reasons that we were sold.
		This is how tribal and how backwards their society was.
		Take ownership of that.
		Take ownership of the fact that when you look at human history and you look at all the horrible things that have happened, nobody's guiltless, least of all people that are in Africa, because today the slave trade still goes on.
		The slave trade still goes on in the Sub-Saharan region, the very same region that black Americans
		descend from.
		They are still being enslaved.
		They are in the midst of a nasty civil war.
		There's child slavery.
		There's child labor.
		There's people that are being sold to sex rings.
		And this is the situation of child slaves in Ghana today that are working along Lake
		Volta, something like 30,000 of them.
		CNN actually did a report on it last year, you know, because one of them had escaped
		and he talked about how they would be beat.
		And he said he was beat so bad that he wished that he was never born, if they were caught
		trying to eat the food.
		This still goes on in that place that you keep glorifying, that you keep pretending
		that the worst that ever happened was that our ancestors were brought to America.
		By and large, you can look back on that and realize, and while it certainly wasn't in
		the circumstance back then, it is today that it was a blessing.
		In the retrospect, it was a blessing that we got out of Africa and that we are in America
		today, which is why so many of Africans are trying to emigrate to America today.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		On that note, Candace Owens, I'm so proud of you.
		Like, on the professional level, I'm just proud of you, but on a personal level, like, it's just, like, I know you.
		Like, I know you are the real deal, and you have relentlessly lived up to everything that you have said, and you're just gonna keep going, and it's just...
candace owens ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thank you, and I really do mean this.
		Being on your show the first time, I'm so happy that it was your show that I sat down across from first, because you didn't push me.
		You didn't say, you need to know everything, you need to have a stance on everything, Candace.
		You just accepted that I was authentically saying, I want to learn.
		And I've done that, and I've tried to remain authentic, and it's thanks to people like you that create a space, like you were talking about, for people to be able to learn, to be able to grow, and to not feel like they need to be tribal in their political beliefs.
		I feel that I've been able to grow and feel confident in what I actually do believe in today.
dave rubin ▲ ● ▼		I'll go with that.
		I know you follow her already, but it's at RealCandaceO on Twitter.
		Thanks for watching.
		If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist.
		And if you wanna watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here.

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