May 20, 2020 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
22:08
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| What I didn't expect, I thought I was going to get all this love, like, you know, people were going to agree with me. | ||
| And instead, I just got this unending torrent of hate online, which you know well about. | ||
| And then one day I was at my barber, my friend Jess, and she called David over and she took out the mirror and she said, you better look at this. | ||
| And I had lost these massive chunks of hair, literally to the point where at one point it was about 40%, if not more, I was spraying on my hair, painting it on. | ||
| That "Why I Left the Left" video that I know you've seen, 'cause we've done some panels together about it, | ||
| was in the midst of it when I was not only just spraying on hair, | ||
| but I was on this experimental medication and I was broken out and my head was oozing. | ||
| And I swear to you, it's not exaggeration. | ||
| I was about to quit. | ||
| I was literally like an hour away from quitting. | ||
|
unidentified
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(dramatic music) | |
| Ladies and gentlemen, it is me, Candace Owens, the founder of the Blexit Movement, | ||
| and I am thrilled that my friend, Dave Rubin's book is finally out. | ||
| Don't Burn This Book, which, as you guys know from me, is extremely tempting, because when people tell me what not to do, I really want to do it. | ||
| But instead, I actually read this book, I didn't burn it, and I'm super excited that I am the person that gets to present this chapter, which is Never Surrendering to the Mob, which is pretty much the story of my entire career. | ||
| So, Dave, this is super exciting for you, this project. | ||
| I know you worked so hard on it, locked yourselves in many rooms. | ||
| Let's jump right into it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Candice, before anything else, I just have to say one thing, which is when I was figuring out the 10 people to do these chapters with, and I'm talking to my associate producer and David and my whole team, we're all looking at number six, like, Candice has taken six. | ||
| Like, Candice has taken six. | ||
| All the other ones we debated, we moved people around, but it was like, No, no. | ||
| We know what's going on with number six. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| And you know what? | ||
| I appreciate that because I do think I'm a big person of never, never surrendering to the mob. | ||
| And I have to say, what's really unique about this book is that it gives a lot of the personal side of you, which you don't really get because you're usually the interviewer and you don't talk much about your personal life. | ||
| And it was really unique to hear this experience, which I had never, ever, ever known about. | ||
| And just the struggle of what you went through, I think, is really incredible. | ||
| And me and my husband were discussing it a couple of days ago when we first got the book, | ||
| and I was going, did we ever know that Dave sort of went through this hardship, | ||
| which I don't know if I should give the details out, 'cause we want people to buy the book. | ||
| Well, no, I'm gonna assume that most of the diehards bought the book already, so they know, yeah. | ||
| When I first sort of said, hey, lefties, something's not right here. | ||
| Like, let's be nicer. | ||
| Let's be liberal again. | ||
| And I did what I didn't expect. | ||
| I thought I was going to get all this love, like, you know, people were going to agree with me. | ||
| And instead, I just got this unending torrent of hate online, which you know well about. | ||
| And then one day I was at my barber, my friend Jess. | ||
| And she called David over and she took out the mirror and she said, you better look at this. | ||
| And I had lost these massive chunks of hair, literally to the point where at one point it was about 40%, if not more. | ||
| I was spraying on my hair, painting it on. | ||
| That why I left the left video that I know you've seen because we've done some panels together about it. | ||
| I was in the midst of it when I was not only just spraying on hair, but I was on this experimental medication, and I was broken out, and my head was oozing, and I swear to you, it's not exaggeration. | ||
| I was about to quit. | ||
| I was literally like an hour away from quitting. | ||
| I could not take it, and I don't know what got me to the other side. | ||
| Something just, it just pushed me through. | ||
| Everyone before me in my family has had it a lot worse than me, and was I gonna let, Some hair loss, you know, get rid of me, but I am proud to say it's all mine. | ||
| And Candace, as someone that doesn't surrender to the mob, I don't want to say what happened, but I might've gotten a haircut yesterday. | ||
| Uh, just, I'm not saying I did. | ||
| I'm not saying I did or I didn't. | ||
| I'm just saying my hair is a little shorter than it was yesterday. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I don't want to not, I don't want anyone snitching on me, Garcetti or any of that kind of stuff. | ||
| Um, but we've all been through that sort of thing, right? | ||
| Like when you started, Coming out. | ||
| You did that great video when you were red pill black way back when coming out as a conservative. | ||
| And did you expect just to get love? | ||
| And then next thing you know, you get some love. | ||
| But like the crazy hate. | ||
| You know, I would say the thing that surprised me the most, and it's something that I never forgot about, actually, Charlie Kirk, I guess, sort of had more of a vision that I was going to be very successful and gain a lot of followers. | ||
| You kind of had that sort of that same vision, too. | ||
| I didn't see it in the beginning. | ||
| I was just sort of doing what felt right. | ||
| And he sat me down and he made me read an article of things that can change in your life when you gain a little bit of fame. | ||
| And I read it sort of, you know, OK, this is good to plug into the back of your mind, but I don't know if this is going to actually be applied into my life. | ||
| No, now my husband actually says to me a quote. | ||
| He doesn't know which Beatle said it, but apparently they said, fame doesn't change you. | ||
| It changes everybody around you. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| And I think that's just such an interesting quote. | ||
| So one thing that I experienced jumping into this was I was the same Candace. | ||
| I've always been this Candace. | ||
| I've always been the outspoken Candace. | ||
| I've been a little different. | ||
| I've always been convicted, whether I was convicted as a liberal and thinking this is | ||
| exactly who I want to be and held my convictions. | ||
| I was always the same person. | ||
| So to watch people spin me into a caricature, and then I think the worst part was losing | ||
| That totally shocked me. | ||
| So when I was reading your chapter and thinking about, you know, the shock, and you speak about someone who was literally at your wedding, or was invited to your wedding. | ||
| Invited. | ||
| Didn't respond to the wedding invitation, but yeah, was invited to my wedding. | ||
| Went through the exact same thing. | ||
| I had family members who didn't even respond, didn't even honor my wedding with a response, you know, because I was a conservative. | ||
| So that was somebody that you just you can't deal with anymore. | ||
| And I think that is sort of one of the biggest shocks, I think, of knowing that you can be the exact same person and rather than discuss an idea with you, you're just considered completely done. | ||
| You're just completely barred from your close families and your friends. | ||
| And that's such a valid point when you're giving your list of things For people to just you know, I love that the advice that | ||
| you give in each chapter Knowing that your friendships are gonna change your | ||
| friendships change a lot and I can't even imagine how much your friendships have changed | ||
| coming from the outers Yeah, they're probably changing as we speak | ||
| But the other reason that I wanted to have you on to do this one is not just that you've survived the mob. | ||
| When people think about the mob, the average person, they don't expect to be the number one trend on Twitter and the Kanye thing and have literally the Twitter moments. | ||
| I think it called you far right or alt right or the rest of it. | ||
| But one of the reasons that I love you not having anything to do with our public thing is that you and I, when we hang out otherwise, We challenge each other the entire time. | ||
| It's not fake. | ||
| We have argued about every freaking thing known to man. | ||
| And it's like we don't hold it against each other. | ||
| And I wonder, what do you think that is psychologically, that some people, when you disagree with them, they want to mob you? | ||
| And what is it about the other people that don't want to do it? | ||
| Because that's the people that we're really talking to here. | ||
| What is it about us Right. | ||
| Do I think the progressives are wrong about everything? | ||
| Am I worried about socialism and big government? | ||
| Of course I am, but I don't try to send a mob to destroy them. | ||
| I want to expose their ideas. | ||
| Right, I think what is different about us is that we genuinely like to learn | ||
| and we have a pursuit of, you know, we want to pursue knowledge. | ||
| And part of that takes a tremendous amount of humility. | ||
| If you're actually interested in the pursuit of knowledge, then you have to be willing to accept | ||
| that you might be wrong, right? | ||
| So when you and I, I love getting into a room with you because sometimes I'm just saying stuff to say stuff. | ||
| I don't even necessarily believe it, but I'm like, I heard this idea | ||
| and I want to know what you think about it. | ||
| I'm thinking of a time where you and I did an event at some college. | ||
| And I was pushing you on, it was something to do with gay marriage, and then you hit me back with something that, like, you one-upped me, and were like, oh, I said, you know, I read somebody who said that society begins to fall apart at the very moment that gay people get rights. | ||
| Right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Any other person would have been like, homophobe! | |
| You know? | ||
|
unidentified
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Homophobe! | |
| How dare you even say that? | ||
| But I didn't even necessarily believe it. | ||
| I heard it, and I wanted to introduce it and to debate it and to hear what you said. | ||
| And then you hit me back and you say, well, then you said, well, then you could make that | ||
| same argument and say that actually it really starts when women get rights. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I said, that's actually a brilliant rebuttal to that. | ||
| So I'm trying to learn and build. | ||
| And part of that is being able to say something right to actually say something and get feedback. | ||
| And you're just one of those people that you like to learn. | ||
| We like to grow. | ||
| We like to build. | ||
| We can be wrong. | ||
| It's OK to be wrong. | ||
| And a lot of people don't possess that humility. | ||
| So it's interesting, because one of the things for you is you've dealt with like the highest level versions of this, like every member of the media going after you, but not just going after you, in many ways going after you because of your race. | ||
| Yes, of course it is what you say, but if you were saying the same things as a white woman, and this is just the perversion of identity politics, it's like they would just say you're a racist and that's it. | ||
| But then, because you flip everything on their head, they feel that in many ways they're going after you purely because of your race. | ||
| It's really bizarre. | ||
| It's almost hard to explain. | ||
| Yeah, I almost present a conundrum for them because they've sort of been able to sort of holster themselves on their high horses on this idea that they're so accepting, right? | ||
| And then everybody else, and you talk about this in your book, is a Nazi and a racist and a sexist. | ||
| And then you get someone who's a black female agreeing with the alleged Nazis and the everybody | ||
| Hitlers. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so they don't know what to do with me because they what they do is because it is | ||
| essentially saying that we go out because we need to defend people like Candace. | ||
| People that look like Candace seem to be defended. | ||
| And when someone that looks like me says no thank you. | ||
| It renders them immediately powerless. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They don't know what to do with it. | ||
| And it's a fun to me personally. | ||
| It's a fun space to be in because I almost demand that they they think and that they | ||
| actually debate with ideas and they're incapable of doing that because they | ||
| They just have anger and rage. | ||
| You know, it's funny cause I remember you got married in August and I was, you know, I do my off the grid August and I, the whole month you got married, was it the 31st you actually got married on the last day of August? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I remember the whole month I was like, Oh, I'm going to get, I'm going to be off the grid the whole month. | ||
| And then I'm going to show up at Candace's wedding and there's going to be all like the public people there. | ||
| And I know somebody is going to screw me over and tell me something about the news. | ||
| But anyway, that we, which didn't happen by the way, although somebody tried to, I won't mention, I won't throw them under the bus publicly, but somebody tried to tell me something, but, When we got to the wedding, David and I took a picture with you and I posted it on Twitter or something. | ||
| And then I saw all these people, oh, it's, you know, the alt-right wedding and there's the homophobe and the self-hating black woman and blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And it was one of those things where not only was the wedding like one of the most fun weddings I had ever been to, but the people that you had there were exactly what America is. | ||
| There were evangelical Christians, there were gay people, straight people, there were Orthodox Jews. | ||
| There were every mix and color. | ||
| Your husband happens to be white, so half the party was white, half the party... The idea that anyone would have cared at any level. | ||
| Honestly, one of the most interesting conversations I've ever had in my life was that night for about an hour. | ||
| I was extremely drunk. | ||
| I don't think he was, but with the priest. | ||
| I had such a great conversation with the priest. | ||
| And it was like, man, all of these haters that would love to send the mob on any of us. | ||
| And, you know, you guys, I'm sure, had to have some extra security there and the rest of it. | ||
| It's like they just have nothing to do with anything remotely close to the truth. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, I briefly touch on my wedding. | ||
| I mean, just a couple of sentences in my book. | ||
| I talk about that because it did represent something really. | ||
| It really does disrupt everything that the left preaches and everything that the mainstream | ||
| media narrative is when people just come together and celebrate love, right? | ||
| They can't stand that because it shouldn't work out. | ||
| I'm a girl from a poor background. | ||
| My family's impoverished. | ||
| George comes from more wealth. | ||
| you know, his family's more privileged. I'm black, he's white. I'm a woman, he's a male. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| None of this should work. We've got gay people at our wedding, got my lesbian cousins at | ||
| the wedding, right? None of this should work. It should have just been an instant war, right? | ||
| Are you gay? Are you straight? Are you tall? Are you short? | ||
| And that's not the way the real society actually works. And one of the things that I | ||
| always say is, gosh, this world would be so much better if everybody could just log off, | ||
| right? | ||
| And you talk about that in your book, why you make the decision to sometimes occasionally log off and participate in real life, because we actually do get along. | ||
| And that is something that I believe truly that the left hates, is us getting along. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What's your policy on the apology? | ||
| Because one of the things that I try to put in the book is never apologize, with the only caveat being if you genuinely do something wrong. | ||
| We've all apologized in real life. | ||
| I apologize to David all the time. | ||
| I mean, we all have apologized when it's right, but I think one of the mistakes people make is they apologize when they're not sorry, actually, or when they didn't do anything wrong because they think that buys them room, they think it'll get them some cred, but really that never does. | ||
| And I've seen you go after people on Twitter or someone goes after you, and then every now and again I've seen you try to take the higher road. | ||
| But what's your policy generally related to apologizing when it's relative to the public life? | ||
| Yeah, I pretty much never apologize in my public life. | ||
| What you realize very quickly is when they want to take you down, they will interpret everything to be wrong. | ||
| And here's a perfect example of that. | ||
| When they took out of context my comments when I was talking about, actually talking about nationalism, right? | ||
| And they wanted me to apologize for that. | ||
| The reason why I didn't apologize is because there was not a single person asking me to apologize that thought that I was trying to defend Hitler. | ||
| It was disingenuous. | ||
| Demanding the apology in and of itself was disingenuous. | ||
| If any person watched the entirety of the clip and you said, hey Candace, you know I'm Jewish, I saw the clip and it just really came across. | ||
| If you heard Dennis Prager pick up the phone, It would have been an entirely different circumstance, but instead I had you and Dennis Prager defending me, and Prager University defending me. | ||
| Dennis is one of your mentors. | ||
| He's one of my mentors. | ||
| I work for PragerU, and they knew it was foolishness. | ||
| What I did say was I could have worn it better, not sleeping. | ||
| You know, we came in on an overnight flight into London. | ||
| Could I have worried it better if I had known that four months later, BuzzFeed was going to go back and find the video and strip it of the question and just have the sentences play? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But was I sorry for what I said? | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| There was nothing to apologize for. | ||
| I was not defending Hitler. | ||
| And the second you give them just a little bit of rope, they will hang you with it. | ||
| The second they find out that you're vulnerable and you care about your PR and they're going to get you on this, you've got to play that game forever. | ||
| So I don't play it with them. | ||
| And if I genuinely said something and then said to myself, you know, wow, that came across really wrong. | ||
| It was the same with the Me Too movement. | ||
| I was the first one who said I don't support this at all. | ||
| And everyone demanded an apology. | ||
| This means you support rape. | ||
| Left and right hammered me. | ||
| I didn't back down because I knew what I meant. | ||
| If you're going to interpret that to mean that you think I want women to get raped, you're being disingenuous, right? | ||
| I am a woman. | ||
| You know I don't want women to get raped. | ||
| So I think establishing really the terms of the apology. | ||
| Are they actually seeking an apology or are they seeking to humiliate you? | ||
| And the answer is always they're seeking to humiliate you when it comes to the left. | ||
| Yeah, what would you say to the people, this is what I was trying to get the chapter to really feel at the end, I wanted to give, not the public people that have chosen to get into this game, like for all the headaches that it comes with and all the great things too, right? | ||
| Like we have great lives, it's good, we're doing what we're supposed to be doing, but for the people that are, I hate the phrase regular people, but for people that don't choose this game, but that one day it will come for them, because that's what I'm trying to show people is, It will come for you one day, because if you have any flicker of an original thought, one day someone will use that against you. | ||
| Do you have any advice for the average person that isn't going to be out there defending themselves on Twitter, but just the tactics that they can use in their own life to get some sort of, not just defense, but to actually go on the offensive with this as well? | ||
| Honestly, I think it's important to stand up for yourself, even if you don't have a platform or you don't think that you have a big voice. | ||
| I think it matters every single time. | ||
| I always stood up for myself when I disagreed with things that my professor said in college. | ||
| I would say it was ridiculous when I was forced to take a feminism 101 course. | ||
| I stood up for myself. | ||
| Because what you really find with the left is that it is, you know, the emperor has no clothes on, right? | ||
| So when my teacher wanted to give me a bad grade because she disagreed with me and I was willing to take it all the way to the head, and have her say why she disagreed with the fact that I | ||
| didn't hate men, or why she wanted me to say after and write, you know, | ||
| "I am a feminist on the board," | ||
| because I disagreed with what she was trying to teach me, she doesn't want to do that, right? | ||
| Because-- and that's really what it is. | ||
| If they're not in a big group of people, they really have no clothes on. | ||
| And I've learned that. | ||
| If it's not Antifa with 60 thugs, they really have-- the emperor has no clothes on. | ||
| Um, so stand up for yourself every single time. | ||
| And I'm waiting for the corporation when they hit them with these bogus discriminatory lawsuits to say, I'm not apologizing. | ||
| You know, this is ridiculous. | ||
| Um, and I'm not going to pay some exorbitant fee, uh, you know, to, uh, some black groups when it looks like I'm dissociating myself from racism. | ||
| We need to all start standing up for ourselves. | ||
| If you're not a racist, you're not a sexist. | ||
| Don't apologize for being one. | ||
| Yeah, the other version of that is with the gays, whenever somebody makes some sort of loosely anti-gay remark or joke, which is actually not anti-gay, what do you gotta do? | ||
| You gotta write a check to GLAAD, and then you're good to go. | ||
| Somehow, you can pay your way out of it. | ||
| How bizarre. | ||
| So, wait, one more thing for you, because it really tied this whole thing together. | ||
| I wanted to mention this up top, but right now you are going through your own version of standing up to the mob. | ||
| You sent out a tweet. | ||
| Do you want to paraphrase the tweet, or maybe you know it by heart already at this point? | ||
| Because you're suspended from Twitter right now as we're taping this. | ||
| Yeah, I said to people in Michigan, open your businesses, go to work. | ||
| You know, Governor Whitmer is out of line. | ||
| The police officers think she's nuts too. | ||
| They're not going to arrest 10 million people for going to work. | ||
| So let's put aside the specifics because actually you're a private, even though you're a public person, you're a private citizen. | ||
| You're not an agent of the government. | ||
| You can say what you want. | ||
| But Twitter basically took down your tweet and now they have suspended you. | ||
| So you haven't tweeted in like five days. | ||
| You must be freaking out at the moment or you're probably very happy actually. | ||
| But you're not backing down, because all you have to do to get back on Twitter, right, is just—what do you technically have to do at this point? | ||
| You have to go through this process of saying that you were wrong and you're going to delete the tweet. | ||
| But I wasn't wrong. | ||
| I'm allowed to say that. | ||
| Even if I wanted to say, go out and protest, that's a constitutional right. | ||
| So if a peaceful protest, as in going to work, is considered something that you're not allowed | ||
| to say on Twitter, then we need to be worried because we're very quickly trending towards | ||
| what you see in a communist society where you cannot critique the government. | ||
| I critiqued a politician. | ||
| I critiqued Governor Whitmer, and I encouraged the people to peacefully protest in their | ||
| own ways. | ||
| And that is something that Facebook and Twitter are saying is not okay anymore, because it's | ||
| a risk to public safety. | ||
| That's the language you see in socialist and communist societies. | ||
| Disagreeing with the government is a risk to public safety. | ||
| It's absolutely not a risk to public safety. | ||
| So I'm not backing down. | ||
| I filed an appeal, and I look forward to hearing back from them. | ||
| I mean, so as someone that probably more than anyone else that I know doesn't surrender to the mob, I mean, how long will you allow yourself to be in limbo? | ||
| Because I know you want to get your thoughts out there and everything else. | ||
| I mean, what if they just don't respond to you? | ||
| Which actually, that would be their move right now, right? | ||
| Like, let's just ignore her, you know? | ||
| And then she'll peter out. | ||
| She'll disappear. | ||
| That's what they're hoping. | ||
| Then I'll lawyer up. | ||
| You know, I'm not taking any prisoners this year, and I've been very serious about going after the tech companies. | ||
| I had a great phone call with, actually, a lawyer two days ago talking about this and saying that I think we need to get serious about this. | ||
| We need to put together a legal defense fund. | ||
| This thing is getting crazier and crazier, and they're widening the net on people that they're trying to censor. | ||
| And, you know, I've had issues with Facebook this week as well, marking things as fake news. | ||
| Fake news assessments are being done by former CNN editors. | ||
| For Facebook lead stories calm is run by four former CNN editors of 20 to 26 years. They're considered unbiased fact-checkers | ||
| And you know all of this foolishness the end of the day these these tech companies have largely become utilities | ||
| And and for people like me who I rely on the ability to get my voice out. That is my life | ||
| That is my career if you're gonna send me because I said to people to go to work | ||
| I mean, what are you gonna start like finding parents for telling their children to make their bed? | ||
| I mean that's called being a responsible citizen, right? I mean, this is like crazy stuff | ||
| And in the meanwhile, you've got people that are doing hair Cuts being put in prison. | ||
| Prisoners are being released. | ||
| I'm in Twitter jail. | ||
| People can issue threats on Twitter and say, you know, like that former Sarah Jung, New York Times person, cancel white people, kill white people. | ||
| All of that's good. | ||
| Candace Owens, go to work, bad. | ||
| It's just nuts. | ||
| I keep telling people, I don't know if you saw the movie Idiocracy, but I keep telling people, we're about a week away from Whitmer or Gavin Newsom here telling people to water the crops with Gatorade. | ||
| Like, that's how stupid the whole thing has become, you know? | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Well, listen, Candace, you truly, like, you are the living example of this chapter. | ||
| You've done it. | ||
| I know you will never surrender to them. | ||
| And I look forward to seeing you on Twitter one day. | ||
| But if not, we'll do it in real life. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| That sounds good. | ||
| We can be peopled in real life. | ||
| Guys, go out, get the book if you don't have it yet, and don't be like me and be tempted to burn it just because he told you not to. | ||
| That would be bad. | ||
| If you're looking for more honest and thoughtful conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling, check out our politics playlist. | ||
| And if you want to watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch our full episode playlist all right over here. |
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