March 30, 2018 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
53:35
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I'm not sure if you heard about this, but the 2016 election was completely bananas. | ||
| Trump and Hillary were actually only part of it as there were other characters from Bernie and Jeb to Marco and Ted. | ||
| The election also caused the implosion of the mainstream media and set us on a path that has hashtag MAGA racing towards hashtag resistance with the rest of us caught right in the middle. | ||
| Ohio Governor John Kasich was one of the more moderate voices in a campaign season that was short on moderation. | ||
| As a fiscally conservative, socially liberal Republican, I see Kasich as someone who has some of the right ideas, but whose timing just wasn't right for the madness of 2016. | ||
| Kasich's team reached out to us a couple days ago and we have him in studio today, totally unscripted and unedited, with no advanced knowledge of the topics or questions. | ||
| I think this is exactly the way we need to be hearing from our politicians, and I hope | ||
| that this interview helps deal us in on these conversations in the near future. | ||
| Joining me today is the author of the new book Two Paths, America Divided or United, | ||
| a former Republican presidential candidate and the current governor of the great state of Ohio, | ||
| Governor John Kasich. | ||
| Welcome to The Rubin Report. | ||
| That's a really good television voice. | ||
| How was that? | ||
| Well, when we were just sitting here, you were kind of normal, and then you were like, dude, you know. | ||
| It was like Ted Baxter, very good. | ||
| Ah, Ted Baxter, I like the reference. | ||
| That did not go over me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, you know, I like... Of course, everybody else watching, they don't know who he is, but that's okay, they could Google it. | |
| Some of my millennial people won't get it, but they should Google who Ted Baxter is. | ||
| That would be good for them. | ||
| So first, what I wanted to start with you, I'm incredibly excited you're here, and it's interesting because your people reached out to us about four days ago. | ||
| They said the governor would like to come in, and then we quickly set this up. | ||
| Nobody said, oh, we have to talk about this, or we can't talk about this. | ||
| You sat down here about two minutes ago, and you said whatever you wanna do is fine. | ||
| And I feel like that is partly what's lost in politics right now, that we're gonna just Well, it's not just lost in politics. | ||
| I see it lost in a lot of things. | ||
| I met with this big car company and they had these guys come in to see me and it was like they were totally scripted. | ||
| So I think life is having fun. | ||
| Life is being able to be real. | ||
| The reason why we wanted to do this is I actually kind of saw part of one of your shows and this media is Really amazing. | ||
| A lot of people don't get it. | ||
| And I'm starting to get it. | ||
| And I have some people around me who say, this is really a way to keep your voice out there. | ||
| You know, I want to be able to have a constructive, positive voice to help our country. | ||
| And this is another avenue that I'm glad no one else has found it yet in my profession. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So we can be a first mover, which I really like. | ||
| And I like the fact that we can actually have a conversation longer than just a couple soundbites. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do you ever worry that because we've lost the ability to do this, that the soundbite world is what's causing so many of the problems? | ||
| Well, that was what happened in the campaign. | ||
| It was all, you know, we didn't do it, but these other campaigns, and I had advice from some people who had run before, make sure you get your little thing out there so you can blow up the television morning news and, you know, and like tricks, you know, that's not a good thing. | ||
| And look, people, I saw a thing on a sign yesterday, it said, email me please, we have to talk. | ||
| Yeah, I think the, Look, I didn't have a smartphone for a long time. | ||
| I had an iPad, and I got it in the very beginning, but I didn't have a smartphone. | ||
| And people would laugh at me, but I didn't need this stuff during the day. | ||
| You know, I didn't need to have basketball scores or look at the weather 25 times or, you know, some kind of headline in the news or my emails because I have people that can, you know, tell me if there's a crisis. | ||
| They tell me. | ||
| I go, okay, well, let's see what it is. | ||
| But I got my smartphone, and now the best thing about it is that I can text. | ||
| But I find that when I text, you know, what it does is it creates a laziness. | ||
| Right? | ||
| You don't have to go through a conversation. | ||
| Now don't you think, look, you have a show here where people talk. | ||
| What do you think about it? | ||
| Don't you think this is a problem? | ||
| I mean, I think that resetting our ability to talk and actually think and sit across from somebody and make some eye contact and really try to understand what they think, I think that is almost the most important thing that we've given up in these last couple years. | ||
| It was the trade-off between all these devices and the immediate response. | ||
| So what do we do about it? | ||
| This. | ||
| I mean, I honestly think that you coming here right now and your people being brave enough to say, yeah, the governor's going to sit down. | ||
| It's not like I have my people. | ||
| You know, these are people that work around and kind of support me and help me. | ||
| They're friends. | ||
| But this whole, you know, sort of funny we were You go on these shows on regular television, which I think are really important, and you get, you know, 2 million people to see you. | ||
| But if you're, like, hanging out with Logan Paul, he's got 16 million subscribers. | ||
| It's like... And you know, the funny thing about it... | ||
| Is that people can't see it really. | ||
| Now, but that's not really true because I think probably you're in demand now and you can go out and make talks and people show up to see you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it's kind of an invisible world to those who were kind of hooked on television. | ||
| Right? | ||
| You understand what I mean by that? | ||
| I do. | ||
| So how do we bridge that? | ||
| I don't know, but I just did What's News. | ||
| I think it's called What's News. | ||
| It was really fantastic and there were a couple million views and I liked it. | ||
| You just have to keep doing it. | ||
| It's part of why I wanted to be here. | ||
| I mean, look, I pull up here. | ||
| You've got a studio in your garage. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's cool. | |
| It's neat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And you don't have to go very far, right? | |
| My commute's about 10 feet that way. | ||
| But the hard thing has got to be getting compelling guests. | ||
| That's got to be a hard thing to do. | ||
| How do you go about doing that? | ||
| Well, fortunately, a lot of people are coming to this medium now, and a lot of the guests that you asked me right before we started all these books here, I mean, most of the, I think, well, virtually every single one except the Carl Sagan book. | ||
| Are there any of them that are interesting? | ||
| Oh, there's a lot of them. | ||
| They look like they're pretty boring myself. | ||
| No, no, no, there's some great books there by many of my guests, from Steven Pinker and Sam Harris and Scott Adams and plenty of others. | ||
| I see you have one here on John Adams, that's good. | ||
| We did a President's Week a couple weeks ago, John Adams. | ||
| So you're getting good people to come? | ||
| Yeah, we're getting good. | ||
| You know, a lot of times when I'm with the press, I'm actually curious about them. | ||
| And they don't like it when I'm asking them stuff, okay? | ||
| It must have been hard in the beginning, right? | ||
| It's hard to build anything. | ||
| I mean, you know that. | ||
| But one of the things that I consistently tell my audience is it's cool that a lot of the beliefs that I have, you know, I fall a little more within classical liberalism and libertarianism. | ||
| A lot of the beliefs about doing things for yourself, and I've built this business with the same ideas that I try to talk about here. | ||
| Some of which I think we're gonna get to, and it's kind of a beautiful thing. | ||
| Not if I keep doing this. | ||
| Not if you keep going. | ||
| All right, let me ask you a couple of questions, as long as you're here. | ||
| So I thought just first, I thought we'd talk just a little bit about growing up, what kind of family you grew up in. | ||
| I feel like people never do that in politics anymore. | ||
| We go to immediately what we think about this. | ||
| Well, everybody kind of mocks me, because I say my father was a mailman, and so the people write that, and they're like cynical and all that. | ||
| I grew up in a town that was over, I mean, I don't think I ever met a Republican. | ||
| Not in my town. | ||
| My Uncle Harry was a Republican, they say. | ||
| We didn't listen much to him. | ||
| He's a great guy, but, you know, it was blue collar and, you know, sort of the, some of these people you would define as kind of the Trump people, you know, who felt they'd been left behind. | ||
| You know, as a result of that, I guess that's why I'm a populist, but a positive populist, not a negative populist. | ||
| Positive that we can do it. | ||
| We can, together, we can rise. | ||
| And that's a great place to come from, because you really have a sense, you have a sense of people. | ||
| You know, and it's not just the upper crust. | ||
| We respected the upper crust. | ||
| I can remember saying to my father one time, Daddy, what about the rich? | ||
| He said, well, we don't hate the rich. | ||
| We want to be the rich, you know. | ||
| And so it was great. | ||
| God fearing, conservative Democrat, good values. | ||
| Faith was a It was a part of my early childhood, which I normally drifted away from when I went to college, you know. | ||
| It's like Augustine. | ||
| He says, you know, I know I need to be committed to God, but just not right now. | ||
| I have a couple of parties to go to. | ||
| So, you know, we all drift away. | ||
| I'm not drifted. | ||
| I've come roaring back into that. | ||
| But common sense, right? | ||
| Freewheeling, sometimes it puts people off a little bit the way I am because I'm pretty direct. | ||
| But the other thing is I was telling somebody the other day that You know, I don't want people to be confused about my positions on anything. | ||
| And so if somebody says, well, I think it's blue, and I might say, well, no, I think it's red, and most people would expect me to say, okay, well, I'll consider that. | ||
| And I'm like, no, no, I just don't think that. | ||
| And I think to some degree people don't get it. | ||
| So it takes a little bit of time for people to come to understand me. | ||
| Yeah, all right, well that's what we're gonna do here for the next hour. | ||
| So you mentioned a couple interesting things there. | ||
| So you didn't grow up in a Republican family per se, and then you just used the phrase conservative Democrat. | ||
| So one of the things I talk a lot about here is that it seems to me, before we get into your party, that the conservative Democrat, or the blue dog Democrat, or sort of the moderate Democrat. | ||
| A lot of them were buddies of mine in Congress, yeah. | ||
| Great friends. | ||
| Do they really exist anymore? | ||
| It seems like they've disappeared. | ||
| I think this young man in Pennsylvania is blue dog Democrat from what I can see. | ||
| No, he got elected at 33, I think. | ||
| I was 30, so he's kind of old. | ||
| Old timer, yeah. | ||
| But no, I think that in both parties, it's really hard. | ||
| If you're a Republican, you've got to fear the right. | ||
| And if you're a Democrat, you fear the left. | ||
| And it just pulls everybody apart. | ||
| We know that, though. | ||
| But you've managed to kind of work through something that's sort of centrist, right? | ||
| Somehow. | ||
| Well, I don't know what that means. | ||
| You know, one guy once told me, the only thing that goes down the middle of a road are yellow lines and dead skunks. | ||
| Okay, and I'm not a... but I'm a common sense person. | ||
| Well, I guess that's what it is. | ||
| And look, I look at an issue and say, okay, what do we do about it? | ||
| We look at a problem. | ||
| How do we fix the problem? | ||
| But I'm not really going to have an ideological force that's pulling me back, but at the same time, being a conservative, I want to see what the solutions are without having to bring bureaucracy or government in. | ||
| And I'll tell you why that is. | ||
| It's because government inherently is so subject to political considerations that people have a hard time Make calling a spade a spade. | ||
| It's like, no, no, I got all these pressures, and I don't like that. | ||
| And so, when you go to government, you can get trapped, but you get trapped with big business, too. | ||
| Big business, you know, you try to, like, I need this prescription, you know, and somebody out here is telling me, oh, no, no, it costs too much, you know. | ||
| Big things like that all have always bothered me. | ||
| You know, big institutions, whether it's government, I grew up, my dad was in a union. | ||
| I always liked unions, but you know, the problem with the unions is when the union boss is not representing a worker. | ||
| And so, big institutions don't thrill me. | ||
| Where am I? | ||
| Kind of unpredictable. | ||
| See, because you kind of labeled yourself a little bit ago. | ||
| You said, well, I'm this and that. | ||
| If you ask me what I am, I'll say I'm a conservative, but then you will say, well, but why do you think this or that? | ||
| Because I don't think we need to be stuck, right? | ||
| Being stuck in life is really depressing. | ||
| All right, so tell me about what does being a conservative basically mean to you then? | ||
| Again, government is a last resort, not as a first resort, but I also don't think it's like no government, you know? | ||
| How do you decide where that stops? | ||
| You use judgment, and you have good people around, and you think about things. | ||
| We're trying to price something right now in our state. | ||
| Somebody wants access to stuff in our state, okay? | ||
| It's a good thing. | ||
| It's a good thing what they want. | ||
| But I don't know what the price of it, the value of it is, okay? | ||
| So, I can't just look at what governments have done to determine the value because I don't have a whole lot of... | ||
| I don't invest a lot in that. | ||
| I want to go out and talk to a variety of people in business to say, what do you think this is worth? | ||
| So how do I do that? | ||
| I have people that come in and they talk and they argue for certain things, but at the end I have to decide. | ||
| As good a judgment as I can. | ||
| Do you have a certain leeway when it comes to thinking for yourself as a governor that maybe the senators and the congressmen can't have? | ||
| Not that you don't have to come together and work with people, but they have to do it with people outside of their state with massively competing interests and things like that. | ||
| I was offering budgets against Republican presidents. | ||
| I mean, just do your job. | ||
| Why would you want to have a television show where you don't make it real? | ||
| Why would I want to be in politics, no matter where I am, and not make it real? | ||
| I mean, what would I be there for? | ||
| It's really stupid, right? | ||
| But I think there's a lot of people there for that stupid reason. | ||
| Well, I don't want to be casting aspersions or judging them only for me. | ||
| Why would you do that? | ||
| I mean, so we had a decision on Medicaid expansion, right, in Ohio. | ||
| You know that. | ||
| You know what Medicaid expansion is. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, I was really, Jan Brewer in Arizona did it, which really was kind of shocking to me, but I was really the first big state, big Republican governor to expand it. | ||
| Was it hard? | ||
| No, it was a piece of cake! | ||
| If I'm going to get money that's not going to put me in a straitjacket from the federal government, if I can use that money to heal, to help heal, or to help the mentally ill so they're not sleeping under a bridge or living in a jail, or if I can help people who have drug addiction to get treatment and get off of it, if I can have a lower uninsurance rate, Why wouldn't I do that? | ||
| And because people are going to yell at me and fight, so what? | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| I mean, I care. | ||
| I don't want them to be angst. | ||
| In fact, in my State of the State address, I made a talk that really had almost nothing to do with policy. | ||
| It had all to do with basically philosophy and the meaning of life. | ||
| They say it was the only State of the State speech delivered by a governor in the history of the world where the name Camus was discussed. | ||
| And I didn't mention that because I don't want to jab anybody in the eye, but the decision to do that To help people. | ||
| It's just, it's such an easy decision. | ||
| Do you find you have a little bit of an extra freedom right now because you can't run for re-election in Ohio now? | ||
| There's a lot of talk of 2020 which I want to end this interview on. | ||
| Well look, I mean, probably so. | ||
| But I've always been very independent. | ||
| You know, I was a military reformer. | ||
| I was offering my own budgets against President Bush. | ||
| I took on corporate welfare reform. | ||
| Couldn't find a Democrat with a searchlight and the Republicans ran the other way. | ||
| No, I've always pretty well felt that You know, you've got to do what you have to do. | ||
| Am I more free now? | ||
| Maybe a little bit, but nothing would change. | ||
| I mean, I don't know what is it I would reverse. | ||
| I wouldn't say, well, we're not going to do this Medicaid thing. | ||
| Now, if it got us to the point where we were fiscally at risk, I would have to stop it. | ||
| I've told everybody that. | ||
| But no, I don't really think so. | ||
| But I am having probably more fun now. | ||
| I'm having a lot of fun. | ||
| I mean, I can tell. | ||
| But I've been having fun. | ||
| You know, I ran for re-election and I never even used the word Obama. | ||
| Running for re-election. | ||
| Never talked about it. | ||
| I just talked about our record and it was fun and it was positive. | ||
| Look, here's the thing. | ||
| And we all need to know this. | ||
| We all need to be healers in one way or another. | ||
| We need to heal our family and our friends and strangers. | ||
| I'm not that great a guy, okay, but I know that that makes sense and I know that it's right. | ||
| So... | ||
| It's just a cool thing to think about. | ||
| And that's why politics is so boring to me. | ||
| Because it's all these calculations and all this crap. | ||
| Why don't we just do a job? | ||
| Let's think about how to pull the country together. | ||
| Let's make sure that we can help people to be lifted. | ||
| Let's not tear somebody down. | ||
| Elizabeth Warren wants to tear down all these rich people. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| Or Bernie or whatever. | ||
| I used to work with Bernie. | ||
| You don't need to tear people down. | ||
| We need to just build people up and put them together. | ||
| Yeah, did you ever get into any of those philosophical discussions with Bernie? | ||
| Because the class warfare thing I see as extremely dangerous. | ||
| No, I never had that conversation with Bernie. | ||
| When Bernie and I were in the House together, he was, you know, really kind of in another orbit than we all thought he was. | ||
| And yet, you know, the country's kind of moved towards him. | ||
| And I think a lot of young people are, you know, the one thing that is concerning to me, and I have great faith in Millennials and Gen Xers, I'm not sure they understand the consequences of losing a representative democracy. | ||
| There seems to be, with some of them, some appeal towards an authoritarian figure. | ||
| Am I right on that? | ||
| I haven't studied it, but I've got that sense. | ||
| That's not good. | ||
| Or that maybe socialism will work. | ||
| A free enterprise system, Michael Novak, the great philosopher, theologian, said that a free market system that is not underlaid with a set of values is bankrupt. | ||
| So you have to have values. | ||
| You can't just be in it to make money. | ||
| There has to be something else there. | ||
| Where do you think those values come from? | ||
| Oh, I think that they The easy thing to say, politically easy thing to say, is they come from mom and dad. | ||
| And I say to people, well, where do you think mom and dad got it from? | ||
| Well, they got it from their parents. | ||
| Where do I think these virtues come from? | ||
| Look, if you're a humanist, I respect you, okay? | ||
| You wake up every day trying to figure out how to make the world a little better place. | ||
| I like that, okay? | ||
| But for me, the winds of change, the fads, can knock me off my path. | ||
| So, I need something deeper than that. | ||
| So, I look to theologians, and I believe that we are a unique form of life, greater than all other life on the earth, and I think that life is given to us by our Creator, and I think our Creator has a character that we can learn about, and that's not only held by a Christian, but also a Jew, and also a Muslim. | ||
| We have the same kind of view of creation and our purpose. | ||
| And within those values are things like mercy and justice and compassion and forgiveness and, you know, I don't know if you play golf, that we have to have mulligans in life because we, you know. | ||
| And the danger of talking about these things is that people want to say, oh, well, you don't have great values. | ||
| I caught you. | ||
| Well, yeah, of course. | ||
| I'm just a slob on a bus trying to make it through life, you know? | ||
| But I kind of know what I need to do. | ||
| So I think that these values, they flow from our Creator. | ||
| And I think too much in religion today, which has turned off a lot of young people. | ||
| I'm actually mentoring a young man in faith. | ||
| But it's not about all this judgment we hear. | ||
| It's about hope. | ||
| It's about human connectiveness. | ||
| And that's appealing to people. | ||
| And it's what I think is true about faith and virtue. | ||
| It's not confining. | ||
| It's enlarging. | ||
| It doesn't make you smaller. | ||
| It makes you bigger. | ||
| And today in religion, we see a lot of forces that are counter to that. | ||
| And I don't like it. | ||
| Yeah, well, it's interesting to me because my audience knows that Thomas Jefferson was my favorite founder, and I go to the Jefferson Memorial often in DC, and I try to read those big plaques, and to me, they're as relevant now as they were, you know, 200 some odd years ago, where he talked about, you know, they talk about a creator at the same time they're talking about why church and state have to be separate. | ||
| Sure they do. | ||
| And I think that's really to the heart of what you're saying. | ||
| Well, I think, first of all, We don't want the government being involved in religion. | ||
| We don't want that. | ||
| We want, though, in a free society... Look, freedom means we have to learn to self-govern. | ||
| And if every time we turn around... This is the big thing about Facebook now. | ||
| They didn't self-govern, right? | ||
| I mean, we can pass all these rules, but, you know, guys like you and me were born to figure out how to get around the rules. | ||
| That's okay, right? | ||
| I may want to be free. | ||
| That's why we're both here, for some reason. | ||
| But what I'm saying is that you can't, if you're going to have freedom, people have to have self-restraint. | ||
| And the less self-restraint we have, the more the government tries to impose things, and the more they impose things, the less freedom we have. | ||
| So, I don't want to, I believe that our faith system, and again, if you're a humanist, that's cool with me, that's fine with me, because you're trying to do good every day. | ||
| I just, it can't work for me because I get too knocked off kilter by the culture today and the winds of change. | ||
| But with that system, it reinforces the sense of freedom. | ||
| So it's interesting, you've referenced culture a couple times, and one of the things that seemed pretty obvious From an outside perspective, the 2016 election was that Trump captured the culture. | ||
| Good or bad, he captured that. | ||
| He captured the internet culture, the reason that you're sitting here right now. | ||
| Yeah, but he didn't win by a lot. | ||
| It was like 80,000 votes, so we have to keep it in perspective. | ||
| And lost the populace. | ||
| Trump is a negative populist. | ||
| I'm a positive populist. | ||
| The people that I grew up with, when they're out of work or whatever, my message is, this is terrible, but let's go fix it. | ||
| I think the negative populist message is, well, you're out of work because that guy over there took it away from you. | ||
| He took your stuff away. | ||
| And that creates a bitterness and an anger. | ||
| And there's also a sense that that can translate into victimhood. | ||
| I'm a victim. | ||
| Would you ever like to be a victim? | ||
| I do not want to be a victim. | ||
| No, but it's easy to be a victim, don't you think? | ||
| It's very easy. | ||
| Particularly if you have other people around that want to be a victim. | ||
| Now, I'm not going to condemn them, but it's easy to fall into that if somebody tells you you don't have something because somebody else took it. | ||
| So what we need to do is, if you were to go to, say, Youngstown, Ohio, they talk about that a lot in national news, and I was a steel worker, or I worked in a coal mine in West Virginia, or whatever. | ||
| We have in Ohio, working with one of the tech companies, we have a list of all the job openings. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Now, if you're a victim and I come to you and I say, you are a coal miner or you are a steel worker, and this would be hard for me, say, listen, I can show you this internet stuff, right? | ||
| And I can get you one of these jobs. | ||
| You don't have to become an expert, but I can show you stuff. | ||
| If I'm a victim, I may not want to do it. | ||
| But if I give that person a message, hey, look at these jobs. | ||
| It pays good money, your family will be healthier, your children will be healthier, you will have more self-respect. | ||
| But you know, it's tough where you are. | ||
| That is the better message than, well, you're just a victim and we're going to go and punish people, right? | ||
| It doesn't work for the good, for the mental health of our society. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, that's a great phrase right there, because we seem to be in a mental health deficit. | ||
| I just came up with that. | ||
| That's pretty good. | ||
| Could you write that one? | ||
| I'll write that one. | ||
| Hey, roll the tape. | ||
| There's somebody back there with a pen. | ||
| I used to do that on television. | ||
| Roll the tape. | ||
| We're a long past that point. | ||
| There's no tape anymore. | ||
| It's all digital. | ||
| But negative population. | ||
| Get the electrons back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Go ahead. | |
| I'm sorry. | ||
| No, no, so negative populism. | ||
| Did you see that train coming? | ||
| Because it seems to me that Trump grabbed it. | ||
| Trump is a manifestation. | ||
| He's not, he didn't create this. | ||
| People for a long time have felt that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. | ||
| People in my party have ignored that. | ||
| Maybe to some degree early on I did too. | ||
| I thought, well, what's that all about? | ||
| But it's true that you see these chasms and those are dangerous because You know, we need to believe that all this wealth and everything changes. | ||
| They say that the ocean always kind of flips upside down, and that's what we need to see in our country. | ||
| That, you know, people on the bottom can get to the top, and we... Look at Bezos! | ||
| Guy selling books out of his garage! | ||
| Look at you! | ||
| It's just a matter of time until you're a billionaire, you know. | ||
| You, you know, operating out of this garage. | ||
| Are you getting close? | ||
| He's delivering me a lot of stuff every day. | ||
| But you see what I'm saying? | ||
| I mean, it is possible to rise in a free society with a free enterprise and Do you think we stopped selling that correctly? | ||
| Because as you said before... I don't think we talk about it. | ||
| Yeah, that young people now, they're starting to think that socialism is cool. | ||
| Yeah, I don't get that. | ||
| I mean, well, because it sounds good. | ||
| You know, like, let's share. | ||
| I'll tell you a really interesting story. | ||
| My chief of staff, there's that, you know that show that you get on your phone at 9 o'clock Eastern? | ||
| It's like, they ask questions and you answer them. | ||
| My kids have done it for a while. | ||
| They don't do it anymore. | ||
| I don't know what the show is called. | ||
| Well anyway, she and her kids, two daughters, they listen to this every night at 9 o'clock. | ||
| And they work together. | ||
| And so she said one day to her kids, why don't I, I'll be on one phone, and you'll be on your phone, and Joy, you'll be on your phone, and let's have a competition. | ||
| They looked at her like she was crazy. | ||
| They're like, why would we do that? | ||
| You know? | ||
| So, you know, I guess what I'm saying about that is the idea of community and together is good, but we don't want that to erode the basic sense that competition is good, as long as it's played fairly. | ||
| And everybody has a chance to compete. | ||
| So really what you're talking about, you're sort of talking about individualism and how we can create groups around that as opposed to collectivism, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is that really the thrust of this? | ||
| Write that down. | ||
| That's a good one. | ||
| Individualism rather than collectivism. | ||
| But if you're a young person, you go, I don't know what's wrong with that. | ||
| But look, they're my hope because they would rather take a job that pays less if the job has meaning. | ||
| Look at what they're doing in Parkland. | ||
| Look at what these young people are doing across this country. | ||
| And using social media to have a voice. | ||
| I mean, it's really awesome. | ||
| I mean, it gets me really pumped up. | ||
| Because I think we need a new era of activism and citizenship. | ||
| And by the way, we fixate all the time on the leader, okay? | ||
| Did you see that movie on Churchill, The Darkest Hour? | ||
| I didn't see it yet. | ||
| There's a lot of him in The Crown. | ||
| Gary Oldman, I know. | ||
| I've got to get out there. | ||
| It's on demand now. | ||
| I'll do it tonight. | ||
| Governor John Kasich, I'm giving you my word right now. | ||
| You have my word, yes. | ||
| But anyway, here's the thing. | ||
| I'm watching it tonight. | ||
| In that movie, and this is made up stuff, he goes down and gets on the subway and he's talking to people and they're like, we're not giving in. | ||
| And they emboldened him, set the fire in him. | ||
| I'm not telling you that he wasn't a great leader, because clearly he was. | ||
| But it was a bottom-up and a top-down. | ||
| I mean, when we think about the Civil Rights Movement, the great leaders, Martin Luther King, they didn't get help. | ||
| Politicians were afraid of him, including JFK. | ||
| They were all afraid of him. | ||
| And what happened? | ||
| It was from the street up. | ||
| A lot of social change. | ||
| The end of the Vietnam War. | ||
| How much longer would the generals have said we were winning? | ||
| And by the way, look at Afghanistan. | ||
| They keep saying, oh, victory's just around the corner. | ||
| Terrible. | ||
| And so you have a situation here where you can't just expect change in the country because I have elected a good, I have a new good coach, so therefore I'm going to win the basketball game. | ||
| It doesn't work that way. | ||
| It works both ways. | ||
| You have a good leader, but a great group of people that drive, you know, that drive change. | ||
| How dangerous then is that cult of personality that we've now made around the president? | ||
| And I'm not just talking about Trump here, I mean even with Obama and plenty of the other presidents, that we think that somehow the executive branch, and really this one person, is going to fix everything. | ||
| Well you know there's a book that I... | ||
| I don't know, like I don't have a lot of things up here. | ||
| The book might be over here. | ||
| No, the book is not here. | ||
| It is a book that says this, and I've never talked about this before, like on television. | ||
| I was with a great preacher. | ||
| He's got 6,000 people. | ||
| He's in the Silicon Valley. | ||
| He's very grace-oriented and hopeful, and he's a Ph.D. | ||
| in psychology. | ||
| He's just got all this stuff, all this talent. | ||
| And I was asking him. | ||
| I said, I keep telling people it's bottom-up, not top-down. | ||
| He said, well, John, it's interesting. | ||
| Because a man wrote a book, and the book says that when pieces of our society start to erode, let's think about it. | ||
| Facebook, Wells Fargo, Equifax, the scandal around Volkswagen, sports, you've got guys that have brain injuries but the league isn't helping them and they're living in a car, their families are destitute. | ||
| Hollywood, we need to say anything there. | ||
| You look across the board and we're seeing an erosion of what we really want, right? | ||
| So there is a tendency, this man maintains, and I'm fascinated to read this book, that we now start looking to politics to solve these problems. | ||
| In other words, we look at politicians or government to use, in a sense, coercion to | ||
| restore things to the right balance. | ||
| And it just doesn't work that way, really, in practicality. | ||
| Now, I'm the governor of the state, seventh largest state. | ||
| I have a very powerful executive position. | ||
| But I can't just give edicts from up here and expect it to work. | ||
| The people have to be engaged and assent and do things, they have to self-govern, they | ||
| have to lift. | ||
| And so this is a very, very, I think, this is like the next thing to think about. | ||
| To me, it's the next wave. | ||
| You know, what I love, what I think has been fun because of my friends and because of my mind and the way it works, I'm kind of always looking for the next thing. | ||
| And I can kind of sense the next thing, you know? | ||
| And I believe this is something that really needs to be talked about. | ||
| I mean, it's virtue, it's religion, it's doing well by doing good, it's We're driving ourselves from the bottom up. | ||
| It's not trying to vest all this power in a handful of people in the government, because I think it's futile. | ||
| I hate to tell you this, but in a weird way you don't sound like a politician. | ||
| But I think you could take that as a compliment. | ||
| Look, I'm a public official. | ||
| I'm a CEO of a state. | ||
| I'm sick of politics. | ||
| It drives me crazy. | ||
| Because I see that in the middle of trying to do things, We're all weak. | ||
| Everybody's weak. | ||
| And we're all susceptible to certain pressures, you know? | ||
| And I'm like, we need to run through that door. | ||
| And they're like, oh no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| Slow down here, you know, and all that kind of stuff. | ||
| Here's the problem with politics. | ||
| You know, you could sit next to somebody your entire lifetime in an office job and never really know what they think. | ||
| But in politics, people get called out. | ||
| It's really interesting. | ||
| They get called out, and in some ways it's not fair, because it's almost like an x-ray. | ||
| Like, you know, you and I could know each other, we could hang out, we could watch basketball games, and never ever get into my finding out how you make decisions in a really tough situation. | ||
| But with politics, you're going to have to vote, and if you vote wrong, you're afraid you're going to lose. | ||
| I mean, it really is an amazing process. | ||
| And it's frustrating. | ||
| My friend and former guest a couple times, Eric Weinstein, who's a world-renowned mathematician and thinker and all sorts of stuff, he talks about how one of the things we've lost now is communal sense-making. | ||
| That because everything has become so politicized, sports are politicized now, Hollywood, as you just mentioned, that all of these things have become so political... But what does that mean? | ||
| I don't know that term. | ||
| What is that term? | ||
| Well, so for example, like, you know, everything that happened with the kneeling about the National Anthem, that we start, that if you turn on SportsCenter, you're watching politics. | ||
| If you turn on the news and they're talking about Hollywood, it's about sex scandals. | ||
| But is that politics, or is that a discussion of virtue? | ||
| Or values? | ||
| Is it politics? | ||
| Well, I guess at some level it's both, right, on the underlying piece of it. | ||
| But it's a debate about behavior. | ||
| It's behavior. | ||
| It's not really politics. | ||
| No, I understand what that person would be saying. | ||
| I'm not sure that's the right characterization. | ||
| So, yeah, you're right, on ESPN, there's a lot of angst over there now because of different positions. | ||
| But we're really kind of debating how we're supposed to behave. | ||
| Don't you think? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, that's what we're doing. | ||
| No, what was so amazing about the kneeling it was brought about by the guy that played for the 49ers. | ||
| People didn't know this. | ||
| I was told this. | ||
| You know he's a devout Christian? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Colin Kaepernick. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When people hear that, they're like, whoa! | ||
| You know, isn't it interesting that when we dig into somebody who we feel one way or another about, it's amazing sometimes how we find out things that change our fundamental attitude towards them. | ||
| Did you find that that whole situation actually was what was right about America in a bizarre way? | ||
| I found that everybody was screaming about it. | ||
| here's what i here's what i think you're going to grow but here's what i think | ||
| where it got lost i don't feel that the players themselves were able to | ||
| articulate to americans exactly why they were doing that and exactly what they | ||
| wanted I think it was kind of lost in the motion as opposed to what is real, what's behind this? | ||
| You know, what is really behind this? | ||
| You know, I'm a black man and I've warned my kid that be careful about when you're out there late at night and what you might find. | ||
| I think if people heard that and they understood that, they would say, oh, so that was the one way you had to say something, because it so divided the country. | ||
| Now, you know, and people had different views, but you know what I found, Dave? | ||
| What I have found in my life is if you pull people together, like we have on police and community, a tough issue. | ||
| I just had two police officers killed, murdered, in my little hometown in Ohio. | ||
| You heard about it. | ||
| It happened a couple weeks ago. | ||
| Community needs to understand that mom and dad need to go home at night. | ||
| You know, they're at risk. | ||
| You go to a domestic disturbance and you have to go in a door, you are putting your life on the line. | ||
| Community needs to understand it. | ||
| But police need to understand that if you're, that they need to understand that community, if you're not treating people right in the community, you're going to have a problem. | ||
| Sit them down. | ||
| Appeal to the better angels. | ||
| And in many cases, you can come up with resolutions, but you have to get the right people in a room and you have to appeal to the better angels in them. | ||
| Yeah, I suspect you don't think Trump is appealing to better angels? | ||
| No, I mean, I think that, you know, look, my job on this is to, my job, I have a position, a platform, I can say things. | ||
| I'm not here to be, you know, knee-jerk against Trump. | ||
| If he does a good thing, he should be praised. | ||
| And if he does something that's dividing us, then I can't support it. | ||
| To the point where I didn't even go to the convention in my state or ever endorsed him. | ||
| I wasn't, like, weaseling around. | ||
| I would say, that's the wrong word. | ||
| I wasn't maneuvering around to say, okay, one day I liked him and the next day I didn't. | ||
| I just was consistent. | ||
| Yeah, look, I took a lot of heat for it. | ||
| The amount of pressure that you must have got from the party and from... Pressure. | ||
| What is pressure? | ||
| Pressure, what do they say? | ||
| Pressure is a guy that loses his job and has got a couple kids to feed. | ||
| That's pressure. | ||
| Pressure in politics, what are they going to do to me? | ||
| You know, what, are they going to criticize me? | ||
| Make, you know... | ||
| We talked, I mean, briefly just now about the anthem part. | ||
| What do you make of the state of race in America? | ||
| If you listen to a lot of people right now, it seems like we're at the worst racial state that we've been in probably 40 years. | ||
| I think we've made a lot of progress. | ||
| I do. | ||
| I think, though, that what we're seeing now is it's back to this, I don't want somebody getting something that I don't get, and somebody else took what I have, and why doesn't anybody care about me? | ||
| And I think that caring about me is real, Dave, I do. | ||
| Let's say that you have a kid and you need a pill to deal with that kid's problem, but it's expensive and you can't get it. | ||
| Does anybody stand up for you? | ||
| You know, if this is where people feel like, and this is where community matters, you know, if I'm being harassed at work, how about that story in the New York Times where these waitresses were being told, let me grope you and I'll give you a $20 tip. | ||
| I mean, who in that restaurant saw that and said, I'm going to take you outside? | ||
| Right? | ||
| The guy that was the perpetrator. | ||
| People tend to feel, I think, too much of the time that we're in this alone. | ||
| Doesn't that kind of get back to the, overstate this, but back to the texting and the no communication? | ||
| We gotta care about our neighbor the way our neighbor cares about us. | ||
| I learned that from my mother. | ||
| I'll tell you an interesting story. | ||
| My mother, we would hang out at the school all the time, and the kids came up and gave us pony rides. | ||
| My mother wanted to check out what is this whole thing going on up there, so she comes up, and I don't know, it was probably a dime to do a pony ride, and my mother was there, and she gave the guy that had the pony a lot more money than the cost of the pony ride, and we were walking home, and I said, Mom, you gave that guy a lot of money. | ||
| She said, Johnny, did you see his eye? | ||
| It was out of place. | ||
| We gotta help people like that. | ||
| I used to see my father giving a couple extra bucks to the guy that picked up the trash, because he didn't make much money. | ||
| Thanks, Mom and Dad. | ||
| Because that's something you carry. | ||
| All right, so this is interesting, because I feel like I'm talking to half philosopher, half governor here. | ||
| So let's go, let's finish with solutions. | ||
| I like that, by the way. | ||
| Half philosopher, half politician? | ||
| Yeah, governor, you said. | ||
| Oh, half governor, there you go. | ||
| That was fun. | ||
| Put that on your business card, there you go. | ||
| You don't have to credit me. | ||
| So I wanna talk some solutions because so many things seem wrong in 2016 that I think that's what's led us here. | ||
| So we can talk about some of the specific things. | ||
| So like watching the debates that you were part of. | ||
| They're the dumbest way to pick a president, okay? | ||
| You can't pick. | ||
| You took it from me, go. | ||
| Well, you can't pick. | ||
| The way to do it is, Now look, it's all about ratings, okay? | ||
| So nobody wants to change the format, but the way it ought to be is what we're doing. | ||
| Let people, let somebody interview somebody, find out who they are. | ||
| And then we can judge, instead of, like, who's got the cleverest line or who, you know, it's really stupid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When you were up there and Trump, you know, usually he was browbeating everybody and you could see, sort of, each debate would go by and he'd pick who he had to go for and, you know, the media kind of fell along with that. | ||
| That really wasn't suited for what you're doing here. | ||
| Well, as the field narrowed, he just didn't show up anymore. | ||
| He didn't debate anymore. | ||
| I mean, I wanted him to debate, but he... Oh, towards the end, when you stayed in and most of the other guys had gotten out. | ||
| When it was down to fewer of us, yeah. | ||
| But I just think it's a bad way to pick a president. | ||
| Now, I think this all started probably with Kennedy and Nixon, and Nixon lost because he looked, he didn't have the right brow. | ||
| I mean, what a dumb way to pick a leader. | ||
| So, I don't know if that'll change. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Because it makes too much money for the networks. | ||
| So what are the things we can do to just change the electoral system enough? | ||
| Like, I'm not somebody that believes you have to go in and wreck everything, but it seems to me if we could just tweak something... Well, gerrymandering needs to be changed so that we're not... Gerrymandering is where you draw a district to favor one party or the other and then all you have to do is listen to people in your extreme and not have to listen to people who are Who are different than you, but you need to be heard. | ||
| That's one thing. | ||
| Don't have an answer for the finance, the spending. | ||
| I don't know what to do about it, but I'm open to anything. | ||
| So those are a couple things. | ||
| Is that really the issue, though? | ||
| I mean, at the end of the day, is it really if we were just to, you know, go backwards with everything? | ||
| I think gerrymandering is a very, very serious problem. | ||
| And we are fixing it in Ohio, and I'm proud of my legislature for doing it. | ||
| That's a big part of it. | ||
| But isn't a big part of it also the kind of people we elect? | ||
| You know, and do you carry virtue into these offices and be willing to take a risk? | ||
| I got a friend of mine now who's just got on the city council and he called me the other day. | ||
| He said, I just seem to be making everybody mad because they all want to have this, this thing that they want to do and I think it's dumb. | ||
| And I said, yeah, just, just, you know, pick your battles and be pleasant and be firm. | ||
| And, you know, we shouldn't want to be in these jobs forever. | ||
| It's natural. | ||
| Nobody wants to go to work and lose their job. | ||
| Okay, nobody wants to do that. | ||
| But you're not in these jobs for, you know, for a long time. | ||
| I don't think you should be. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| At the end of the day, is that really what the government's role is, is just making sure we have jobs? | ||
| I mean, you know, making sure we're basically secure? | ||
| I think it's the greatest moral purpose, is to provide an environment for job creation, because that's what creates human dignity. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| That's what strengthens communities and builds strength in families. | ||
| You know, for the government of the United States, make sure that we are protected, you know, that we can be free and yet safe. | ||
| And then it's also, of course, domestic tranquility, you know, that we're at peace where we are. | ||
| So if you have high unemployment, it's terrible. | ||
| So I believe our greatest moral purpose as politicians, for me and my job, is the fact that I need to have a job-creating environment. | ||
| So it's interesting, as I'm listening to you, I can understand the reasons for not liking Trump and the tweets and virtue and all of that. | ||
| I can get that. | ||
| In terms of policy, of the things that he's done... Well, let's talk about a couple things. | ||
| Let's talk about immigration. | ||
| I mean, the idea that we're going to ship these DACA kids out to me is... I don't even know where the Democrats are. | ||
| We keep talking about Trump. | ||
| I mean, where are the Democrats? | ||
| Is Bernie and his left-wing philosophy? | ||
| I don't know where the Democrats are. | ||
| But this DACA thing should be solved. | ||
| I mean, these are people, you know, 25, 26, 27 years old. | ||
| They came here when they were 6 or 7 or 8. | ||
| Now we're going to ship them out. | ||
| They're a meaningful part of our culture. | ||
| So what do you actually do then? | ||
| They ought to be grandfathered in. | ||
| They ought to be said, you get to stay. | ||
| And then when it comes to immigration itself, we need to know who's coming, and we need to be able to protect our borders, but I don't want to be shrinking legal immigration. | ||
| I think people create a great deal to our country. | ||
| Trade, you know, it's a thorny issue, but 40 million Americans have trade-related jobs. | ||
| And most of the businesses that are involved in exporting are small and medium-sized businesses, and consumers benefit from open and free. | ||
| Now if it's not open and free, fine, then have a process to restore equity. | ||
| But just don't go out to create a trade war. | ||
| You know, I mean, those are things, what else you want to ask about? | ||
| I mean, those are two that jump at me, there's lots of them. | ||
| Yeah, well, I'll throw a couple others out. | ||
| We actually did meet once before. | ||
| It was at, I believe, it was the first or second Republican debate, and I asked you a question in the, you know, with everyone's jamming the microphone. | ||
| But not enough were jamming their microphones in my face early on. | ||
| No, trust me, I had to fight through plenty of people to get the question. | ||
| But basically, my question to you was that the social issues, that gay marriage in particular, I could tell you, I think in the first debate, you immediately said, they asked you about it, and you said, that's not what I want to focus on. | ||
| I can't remember exactly what I said, but it did get a, you know, look, it's not, I'm not, that's not where I want to live. | ||
| Because that is a dividing, I mean, in terms of gay marriage, I'm fine with it. | ||
| I mean, I think it was that time when I said I was going to a wedding of my gay, you know, one of my gay friends, who's terrific. | ||
| I talk to him all the time. | ||
| I mean, I don't even think that way. | ||
| It's beyond us. | ||
| So you'd love for the Republicans to get past the social stuff, right? | ||
| Right, I mean, I think in effect the party has, even the more conservative Christian side of the party isn't talking about it that, like, I don't hear Santorum or Huckabee really rallying against it anymore. | ||
| No, it's tolerance, and it's, you know, things have changed, and, you know, I prefer the traditional marriage, but, you know, I'm not like, I don't worry what you're doing. | ||
| You mentioned to me it's your 21st anniversary with your wife today. | ||
| Exactly, and I'm here. | ||
| And here you are with me. | ||
| What does that say? | ||
| I don't know what it says. | ||
| I don't know what that says. | ||
| Where are you on medical marijuana or legalization in general? | ||
| I'm not for legalizing it because it gets, look, I told people when I was in college, of course I smoked dope. | ||
| I mean, we all did. | ||
| I wouldn't say we all did, but many of us did. | ||
| But here's the problem. | ||
| You can't tell kids don't do drugs, but by the way, this drug's okay. | ||
| So it's a problem. | ||
| Medical marijuana, we have it in our state and We have it in our state, | ||
| but I don't think legalizing it is a good thing to do. | ||
| Yeah, is this one of those things where, so when I hear that, | ||
| to me, this is where my libertarian side would kick in, and I would say, well, you can put anything in your body | ||
| that you want, and as long as you're doing it in the privacy of your own home, | ||
| and the rest of that argument makes a lot of sense to me. | ||
| But you think that if we just sort of unfurl this, that it'll- | ||
| I mean, we got an opiate crisis. | ||
| I mean, you know, I just was looking last night. | ||
| You got fentanyl and these street drugs, whether it's coke or heroin, and they're just dropping dead, you know, left and right. | ||
| This is not a time when I think we ought to be trying to say to kids, okay, well, don't do any drugs, but, you know, but this one's okay to do. | ||
| That's kind of how I feel about it. | ||
| Yeah, and yet, you know, alcohol. | ||
| I mean, yeah, no, and we, look, and we have a lot of people die from drunk driving and all that, but we've been through that, and I don't know where this is all going to ultimately end up. | ||
| I'm just giving you my sense, dealing with a real problem here. | ||
| I don't want to have to explain to young people that, you know, you can do this, but don't do that. | ||
| It needs to be a simple message for me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Okay, a couple more, and then the big question at the end. | ||
| I can answer the big question at the end. | ||
| I don't know what I'm going to do in 2020. | ||
| I don't know what I'm going to do. | ||
| I really don't know. | ||
| I want to be able to participate in a positive way in the public debate. | ||
| I want my voice to be out there, and that's kind of what I want to do. | ||
| And I don't know where that's going to take me. | ||
| I'm not plotting or scheming, but I'm making a lot of effort to be able to have the resources to be able to stay. | ||
| All options are really on the table, but I don't know what will be exercised because we don't know what the future is going to bring. | ||
| The big question was going to be whether you wanted to play golf with me after this. | ||
| Do you play? | ||
| Are you a good golfer? | ||
| Not well, but I can do it. | ||
| Okay, well alright, that was the answer to that question. | ||
| A couple other things, though. | ||
| So you're in California right now. | ||
| I know you just met with Arnold Schwarzenegger, and you guys are talking about how to reset Californian Republican politics. | ||
| I'm here in California. | ||
| It's an insanely high-tax state. | ||
| I mean, if I told you what my property tax is on this place, your head would explode. | ||
| I should probably move to Ohio if you want to help arrange it. | ||
| Well, my property taxes are high enough it makes my head explode. | ||
| Even in my state. | ||
| Yeah, trust me, in L.A., yeah. | ||
| What do you think can be done to help a place like California that's obviously so left? | ||
| Well, I think what's happening, though, is you're beginning to lose people. | ||
| You know, whether it's to Washington State, no income tax, or to Nevada, or to Austin, Texas. | ||
| I mean, you don't want to see that happening. | ||
| You've got to make government more efficient. | ||
| You remember in the old days when you bought a Kindle, you know, you had to pay money for it. | ||
| Now they'll pay you to have a Kindle, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I mean, we need to use creative and 21st century technology and techniques to skinny the government down to get it to do what it's supposed to do and be efficient and effective. | ||
| You just said you can't believe what it was like for me to get permission to build a studio in my garage. | ||
| That's nuts. | ||
| This is the 21st century. | ||
| What are they worried about? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so, you know, I think that, and I love California. | ||
| I mean, are you kidding me? | ||
| I wanted to be out here. | ||
| I wanted to campaign out here, but things move too fast. | ||
| I mean, how could you not love this state? | ||
| But you can also do enough things to begin to drive people and businesses out, and it's not good. | ||
| All right, well, since you answered the big one already, I'll just give you a wide one to bring us home with, which would be, so many emails that I get and tweets and messages that I get are all about people that are just afraid to... Look, can I go back for one second? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Because you were asking about, like, these social issues, okay? | ||
| I read an article about Billy Graham, who spoke to 200 million people across the globe. | ||
| And he had fights with people inside of faith because he stayed away from the hot-button social issues of the time. | ||
| I think it is possible. | ||
| For example, I'm dealing with guns right now, okay? | ||
| And I have brought a group of people together to mediate that. | ||
| I think you can deal with these social issues by being in a position of bringing people together. | ||
| At the end, you may have to walk away from the table. | ||
| But I admire what Billy Graham said. | ||
| There's so much negativity in the world today. | ||
| Why don't I, like Billy Graham did, why don't I just focus on the positive things, the uplifting things, instead of dragging yourself down into these ditches where we just go into warfare, World War I trench warfare. | ||
| It's not going to help us in the long run. | ||
| Those issues can be dealt with in a way and on the edges, but at the end, let's try to lift our culture. | ||
| Kasich 2020, politician, no, what was it? | ||
| Philosopher slash governor. | ||
| I see it all coming together. | ||
| All right, so the final one, though, is that I get all of these messages and tweets and emails from people that are afraid to get involved. | ||
| They're just afraid to say what they think, either because of political correctness or the way it's gonna affect their job or their friends or anything. | ||
| You're obviously out there. | ||
| You're clearly not afraid to say what you think. | ||
| As I said, there was no preparation. | ||
| You sat down and we did this for an hour. | ||
| What would you say to those young people that wanna get involved? | ||
| Life is short and life is also a journey. | ||
| You've got to listen to your conscience. | ||
| And sometimes it's hard. | ||
| Sometimes when you stand up, sometimes you might lose something. | ||
| But in the long run, you'll be admired and leave an indelible impression for showing courage. | ||
| Have people around you that you can talk these things through because, you know, just doing it all yourself leads to self-righteous behavior that is not always very pretty. | ||
| But at the end, Look yourself in the mirror. | ||
| Look yourself in the mirror. | ||
| And I happen to believe that there's a world yet to come. | ||
| That's really, now how am I going into that one, huh? | ||
| But there's a world yet to come, and I think our actions here prepare us for that world, and it's gonna be okay. | ||
| That's how you end an interview. |
Export Selection