Nov. 13, 2017 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
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unidentified
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[MUSIC PLAYING] | |
| On television, they tell you that every episode of every show | ||
| is a very special episode. | ||
| Well, in the hundreds of episodes of the Rubin Report, I've actually never said this is a special episode until today. | ||
| Joining me is Lubna Ahmed, a free thinker and chemical engineering student who has spent her entire life in Iraq. | ||
| Lubna was a guest on the Rubin Report about two years ago via Skype, but right after our talk Ljubna was subjected to death threats and had to go into hiding. | ||
| After two long years, Ljubna has finally made it to the United States and now today, I welcome my new friend into my home and into my studio. | ||
| Ljubna Ahmed, welcome to The Rubin Report. | ||
| Hello, welcome. | ||
| Thank you for having me again and I'm very grateful to you and for all the people who helped in my case and for all who had seen my first interview and, you know, come to conclusion to think about things again and about situations, you know, in my country and other countries around in the Middle East. | ||
| So thank you. | ||
| I'm grateful to all of you. | ||
| Well, I think a lot of people are grateful to you, too, for having the bravery to tell your story and be open, be who you are, even come here now. | ||
| I mean, the other one we did was two years ago, and we reposted that a few days ago, so people will have seen that already, hopefully, if they're watching this right now. | ||
| But when we did that interview two years ago, you had reached out to me And I didn't know if you were legit. | ||
| I didn't know if this was some sort of hoax or something. | ||
| But then we Skyped privately and you told me your story. | ||
| And then I talked to my friend Faisal who obviously was from Iraq too. | ||
| And then he talked to you on the phone. | ||
| And he basically said to me that if I won't talk to you and that you're an adult and you have capacity over your mind and can make your own | ||
| decisions, that if I won't talk to you, that nobody will talk to you | ||
| and that you'll never get any help. | ||
| And that's why we decided to do it. | ||
| Did you think that after we spoke that it was gonna get so bad so quickly? | ||
| I didn't think so actually back that time. | ||
| I was more into talking. | ||
| I wanted my voice to be heard to the other people around, because situations in my country are bad. | ||
| And for, you know, people like me, you know, I'm good. | ||
| I have, you know, a very good family. | ||
| I was raised in a very free space, but there are millions of people in my country. | ||
| They have no rights. | ||
| They have no space to even to think about themselves. | ||
| So it was important for me to share my story and to share my thoughts. | ||
| So the other side of the world can get, you know, a view and an image to what are the situations in my country, and especially for women. | ||
| Because, as you've seen, after 2003 went bad, and especially for women and for children, So, for myself, as an educated person, I was, you know, I was abused and treated badly in my society, from my people, and, you know, by my religion, so it was very important for me to speak up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How come it was so important for you to show your face in the interview? | ||
| Because I remember when we talked originally, I said, you know, if you want to wear a mask, if you want us to blur your face out, and you said, no, I want people to see me. | ||
| Because it's very important for me. | ||
| See, in Iraq, all kinds of people, they have the right to have their faces, to have their full identity without fear. | ||
| You have the malicious groups in Iraq, Hezbollah, they come up to people with their faces, with | ||
| their identities. | ||
| And you have the other side, the terrorists in Iraq as well. | ||
| They act freely in the country. | ||
| But for people like me, I didn't hurt anyone. | ||
| I didn't treat anyone in a bad way. | ||
| So why should I hide my identity? | ||
| I mean, it's very important for me to declare who I am, because everyone has the right to | ||
| declare who they are and what they do believe in. | ||
| For me, it's very important to say that I am an atheist, because | ||
| In my country, everyone is calling that we are Muslims, we are Sunnis, we are Shia, and we practice what we want. | ||
| But for me, it became, in the recent years, very important to share my thoughts. | ||
| You mentioned that you were brought up in a free space, so your mom, who actually now is with you in the United States, you guys got here together, and you're living with your sister who had moved here years before, although you have two brothers in Iraq still. | ||
| So your mom basically created a free space for you to be able to think, and you told me that you were reading books by Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, people that hopefully I'll be able to introduce you to at some point. | ||
| Because she's actually an atheist. | ||
| I mean, she started to think about religion from an early age. | ||
| So, she didn't grow up in a, you know, in a religious, strict space, although that, you know, her family were, you know, strict with her, you know. | ||
| But for her, she always thought that she's an atheist, and she tried to To raise, you know, her children to be not atheists, but to think for themselves, to have their brain to work out. | ||
| Because we were born without knowing what God is, or what our religion is. | ||
| But we, you know, brought to this world, to our societies, The idea of God and the idea of religions was forced into us. | ||
| For me, I didn't know what God was until I got to high school. | ||
| We have classes that teach Islamic lessons. | ||
| Till that point I started to realize what is God and what Islam is. | ||
| My mom, I'm very grateful to her because I think she's my God for me. | ||
| This is what I think and what I do believe in. | ||
| Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. | ||
| It's interesting you talk so much about why showing your face was important. | ||
| All these bad people basically get to show their face, and then the good people are the ones that are shamed into it. | ||
| I always talk about how I get so much email from people in America, a free society, that are afraid to say what they think while living here, which I'm sure is mind-blowing to you. | ||
| Like, we don't really understand the freedoms that we have. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know, but I mean, America is the land that I think it's magical. | ||
| It, you know, it is the land to protect the freedom. | ||
| So how come people in here can't, you know, afraid to show their faces or to share their ideas or their thoughts? | ||
| I can understand that. | ||
| But for me, I just want to say something. | ||
| They might, you know, want to live one day, 24 hours, in my country. | ||
| I think that's the point that maybe makes them try to think deeply in the rights and the freedom they have that I and people in my country don't have. | ||
| In Iraq, everything is dragged. | ||
| You are not yourself in the Middle East in general. | ||
| You have to be forced into something. | ||
| You have to be afraid of who you are. | ||
| You don't know what you are or who you are. | ||
| Until you die, but in the United States from when, you know, I've been here six months so I can see that sometimes I don't feel that I belong here because I do miss a lot of things that I used to do in my country, but in other words, I enjoy the freedom that I have now and I'm grateful to the United States of America. | ||
| It's a very great nation. | ||
| And the principles and the concepts this country was built on is, I think, is humanitarian principles from what I learned about the history of the United States. | ||
| And I hope all the people And American, I think, in the Western world, and even in my countries, get to see this history so they can learn and they can build, we can build, you know, the future for the next generation we have. | ||
| Yeah, it's so nice to hear you say that, because we do forget it here, you know? | ||
| And that's why, when you reached out to me, that I thought, this is something, this is a person who's fighting for the same things that we're fighting for here. | ||
| Our fight is so much easier, and you were willing to put yourself out there. | ||
| Alright, so we do that interview two years ago, and then I think within, Almost 24 hours, maybe two days. | ||
| You contacted me and said that there were Shia militias basically that had either seen the video or had gotten word of the video and that you were in trouble. | ||
| And then we had sort of spotty communication for a couple months and there were a few other people. | ||
| that tried to help. | ||
| I know some people that watch the show were raising funds to help get you to a safe house and all that. | ||
| But can you just sort of tell me about those first few weeks? | ||
| I know your ordeal really was for almost two years, but what was that initial part when you heard that people knew about what you did? | ||
| Well, I was afraid, not, you know, for myself, but for my family. | ||
| Although I asked my mom, you know, if I can do that, you know, I had permission. | ||
| But I was afraid for my family. | ||
| I didn't, you know, I wasn't afraid for myself that much, to be quite honest, because I mean this is a case that if you I said yes so I have to take the responsibilities for that but basically I was afraid for my mother and mainly so it was very you know rapid you know. | ||
| How did you hear like what was the first thing that you heard that Well, I went to the college, actually, and I saw papers, you know, threats. | ||
| My name was written on it, and it says that death to the atheists in Iraq, death to you. | ||
| And I took the paper and I tore it down and I went out of the college. | ||
| And that's when I actually contacted you and all the people because a lot of the people in my community saw that interview. | ||
| around by university and the nearby universities. | ||
| Actually, they even shared their thoughts on the Richard Dawkins Foundation, some of the students. | ||
| Right, because the Dawkins Foundation had also posted the video that we did. | ||
| So the video was going all over the place, and then it was hard. | ||
| We took the video down, but copies had been made, and we tried to contact everybody to get all the copies taken down. | ||
| When did it kind of escalate past that? | ||
| Did anyone actually say a direct threat to you in that initial time? | ||
| A lot of, um, told me that, um, you will go to hell. | ||
| Um, we will kill you eventually, but... Did people know you were an atheist before that? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
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I mean, I assume as a chemical engineer, you probably had... Yeah, in my community, yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| In my college, they knew because, you know, I had a lot of discussions. | ||
| I mean, I can't keep my mouth, I'm sorry, shut. | ||
| Uh, yeah. | ||
| I do speak... You'll do fine in America. | ||
| Yeah, I do speak and, you know, every time I, you know, I listen to them talk, you know, delusional things, I had to say something. | ||
| So, I was none for my thoughts, and I shared a lot of articles, actually, writings in Al Mutanabbi Street by my name, but I didn't put my full name on it. | ||
| But I did, you know, spread papers, my name on it, just to say my thoughts. | ||
| The same, you know, I used to share my thoughts on Facebook. | ||
| I used to always post verses of Qur'an. | ||
| And, you know, explain it to my friends, American friends, and other people. | ||
| So, I was known for, you know, for being atheist, and I faced a lot of threats, actually, before the show. | ||
| Physical threats against me. | ||
| I was, you know, once slapped on the way to home from my college, actually, by a guy in the car. | ||
| So, and I was, Yeah, I mean, I could see it in you. | ||
| in my college, so I was always non, so that's why I decided to go, | ||
| and because there is no point of keeping it silent for me. | ||
| I had to speak up, so that's why I did. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I can see it in you. | ||
| I know you couldn't even if you tried to not say what you think. | ||
| Well, I don't know, but for me it was important. | ||
| And I think, I want to say that American people should now read their history again and remind themselves that what they have is very great. | ||
| I can't even describe it in words. | ||
| They should learn more about it and they should protect the freedom because America is, you know, for all of us, for all of the people who had their rights gone, who don't have any, you know, who don't have any rights in their countries. | ||
| I do think that it is very important to fight for this country. | ||
| And to stop the Islam disease, to get into it. | ||
| This is very important for me now. | ||
| So, all right, so suddenly you saw the letters at school, people were saying things to you. | ||
| I remember we were trading some emails, and sometimes you didn't have internet for days, and you were moving around and things. | ||
| Kind of tell me what happened over the next couple months. | ||
| You were put in a safe house for a while. | ||
| I know at one point we had some people that were trying to get you maybe to the Kurdish regional area, because it's more Western friendly there, and there are more Americans there. | ||
| What was that whole year? | ||
| I went into hiding. | ||
| I moved around. | ||
| I changed the places a lot. | ||
| How does that even happen? | ||
| Like, how do you make the contacts to know that you're going to a place that's safe? | ||
| Because I didn't know. | ||
| I just moved around. | ||
| I disguised, actually, to be quite honest. | ||
| I didn't go with my phone face because I would be recognized. | ||
| So, meaning you were wearing a hijab or something? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| How did that feel for you, just knowing everything that you... Well, it felt... I'm nothing, to be quite honest, and I'm a coward at the end, because... I do believe that if you are... | ||
| If you believe in something, you would do it to the last thing. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| But, um, I packed because, maybe because of the positive feedback I received. | ||
| Maybe because, um, I believe that, although that I'm a very tiny person, and, and, you know, and that there are, um, lots of, you know, uh, worse cases than mine, but I thought maybe I can stay alive and share my experience with a lot of people. | ||
| So I think that's what drove me to put hijab and to disguise just to save, you know, my life and to be able to speak up again. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But other than that, I don't feel that, to be quite honest, I'm special or Or anything. | ||
| It's just I'm a coward and I lost the passion I used to have back in my country. | ||
| Now. | ||
| I sense that maybe a new passion will be starting while you're here. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I used to put myself into things. | ||
| I think you're doing that right now. | ||
| And, you know, I was stopped by a lot of, you know, army soldiers, the Iraqi soldiers, for trying to take pictures of some of the establishments, like Harakat Ansar Allah. | ||
| It's in Arabic. | ||
| There's something like Hezbollah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, I tried to take some pictures of their buildings so I can post it online and I was stopped by some of the Iraqi, you know, soldiers. | ||
| They told me it is dangerous to take that and they took my iPad and deleted the pictures. | ||
| But I got the chance to post it and Keith Carvin, my friend, he posted that. | ||
| For me, I do put myself into things, not because I love troubles, no. | ||
| It's just because I want to, you know, share a view of the country that maybe you didn't get to see. | ||
| Because a lot of reporting things, they don't tell you the whole truth about Iraq. | ||
| But for me, you know, I can't tell you the truth. | ||
| So... Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I hope in the future I might, you know, change my views. | ||
| I don't know for now, but hopefully. | ||
| Yeah, well, you just got here. | ||
| You're just getting your feet wet, so to speak. | ||
| So you mentioned Keith. | ||
| There's a couple other people who we both know that, I don't know that they wanna be mentioned publicly, so I'm just not gonna mention names, even though they all did a lot of good things. | ||
| But what was it like to be in communication with people? | ||
| I mean, there were people literally across the world that were trying to help you as you were running. | ||
| That must have given you some little extra glimmer of hope or something, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they are, you know, special people to me. | ||
| I can't say names, but one person who put hope in me. | ||
| I believed in him. | ||
| For several nights, I even missed my own voice. | ||
| I didn't speak. | ||
| I didn't say anything. | ||
| I was alone. | ||
| One person who kept me alive. | ||
| I owe him my life, actually, to be quite honest. | ||
| Were you with your mom the entire time that this was all happening? | ||
| From the beginning, no, but at some point she got into it with me because she faced threats about me, so she had to be with me, actually. | ||
| I'm grateful to that person, particular one, and all the people who helped in my case, and especially I'm very grateful to you. | ||
| I can't forget the moment that we talked, and you are a friend, and you are a family for me now, so I'm very grateful to you, and thankful to you and all the people, and to David. | ||
| Well, I'm grateful for you, too, because this is what it's all about. | ||
| You're doing something that, right this very second, you're doing something that, this is what people need. | ||
| This is what people need to understand. | ||
| As you're saying, if we're gonna protect the things that are great about this country, we have to hear from people like you. | ||
| And the fact that you were so brave in a place, you know, we have people that aren't brave while they're free, and you're brave in a place where you weren't free. | ||
| It's incredibly inspiring. | ||
| Because the situations drive you to, because you don't have the right to be who you are. | ||
| You know, believing in yourself can drive you to talk and to be who you are. | ||
| For me, it's very important from what I learned about, you know, nature, about science. | ||
| It's very important to shape who you are because every one of us has a unique personality. | ||
| We don't have to be the same. | ||
| We don't have to follow others to be a picture of others or a reflect as you can say. | ||
| So for me it's very important to To share that with you people, and for you to protect this free space so we can be creative. | ||
| That's what matters for me. | ||
| Yeah, so, all right, let's get, I wanna get to your part of your life in America. | ||
| So how did, okay, so you bounced around from these safe houses, basically. | ||
| When did you get a call, or where were you when you realized that actually you could get out? | ||
| Because in the midst of all of this, by the way, was everything happening with this supposed the Trump travel ban and Iraq wasn't on the list. | ||
| I guess it maybe is. | ||
| I'm not even sure right now where the list, I'm not even sure where that whole thing stands at the moment actually. | ||
| But I remember thinking and then we had lost communication for a while and I had reached out to some other people and they didn't know where you were and this whole thing. | ||
| But when did it actually you start getting some signs that you might Well, it's early in, I think in August, September, from the people that were in touch with me. | ||
| So this is a little over a year ago, basically. | ||
| Yeah, 2016. | ||
| And I was contacted by other people through my email that I might have an interview with, you know, for an immigration status or something. | ||
| And it does, you know, start it. | ||
| And I managed to go and do that, actually. | ||
| It was hard for me, but, you know, I did it, basically, because, since I told you, I disguise. | ||
| So, sometimes it's easy for me to move, you know, disguised. | ||
| I did it, I think, in the last year. | ||
| But after the travel ban, everything has ended earlier in 2017. | ||
| So basically you got in because you started the process before the ban? | ||
| Yeah, and then, you know, these people helped me trying to do the humanitarian parole visa and, you know, I got it so now I'm here. | ||
| Yeah, and we can mention that, you mentioned Richard Dawkins before, who you'll find in America there's a certain subset of people who unfortunately say terrible things about him and say he's an Islamophobe and all of this nonsense. | ||
| But the Center for Inquiry, which is his organization, not only facilitated some of that, but it's helping you with some legal stuff right now. | ||
| Yeah, they are. | ||
| They are helping me. | ||
| I mean, actually, they supported me with a few amount of money, and they supported my case with the lawyers. | ||
| So, I can't say no more about that, but ultimately I'm very grateful to Mr. Richard Dawkins because he takes his words into actions, not like others, because he sees that it is very important to save people, you know, who are like me. | ||
| I'm not special, but people in general. | ||
| Who do believe in themselves, who do believe in atheism. | ||
| Atheism is not about, you know, not believing in God. | ||
| I mean, religion is a personal practice. | ||
| You don't have to declare your religion. | ||
| I mean, it's just between you and the thing you are believing in it. | ||
| But nowadays I think it's important to declare who we are. | ||
| Because of the, you know, the Islamic stuff is going on around, the spreading of religion, Islam. | ||
| That's the point that, you know, makes you wonder that I should, you know, declare my thoughts or, you know, to get it to the other people. | ||
| So, anyway, they helped me in my case, and I'm grateful for him, and hopefully one day I get to see him. | ||
| I will do the best I can for whatever that's worth. | ||
| Yeah, and I'm very thankful, too, if you can do that, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, you never have to thank me again. | ||
| That's for the record. | ||
| So what was it like the day that you, did someone call you and say you're gonna get out? | ||
| I mean, did they bring you in and talk to you? | ||
| Like, what was that moment like? | ||
| Um, yeah. | ||
| Um, I was communicating through emails, actually, because Internet was not, um, I don't, I didn't have Internet all the time, you know, I'm moving around, but, um, it was, you know, I was, um, lucky to get my email opened before, you know, one day, I think, from the, uh, from the interview with the, In the U.S. | ||
| Embassy in Baghdad, I didn't get the chance to open my email. | ||
| So one day before the interview, I get to see an email from the embassy that I have an interview the next day. | ||
| So yeah, it was very quick. | ||
| And I went, actually, to the interview, and the consul was very nice. | ||
| He spoke Arabic, actually. | ||
| And he just saw me, and he said, OK, you have this. | ||
| I'll get your passport, and you have to see. | ||
| Once you get to the United States, you can, you know, have your case. | ||
| I didn't feel anything to be quite honest. | ||
| know, changed. That's the point that I didn't feel anything to be quite honest. It's just | ||
| because of the whole situation I've been through, I can't feel that I'm happy, I'm sad. It's | ||
| just something I thought was normal. | ||
| If I'm gonna be admitted or not, we'll be fine, but... Did they tell you at that time that your mom could come with you? | ||
| Yeah, she came with me. | ||
| Yeah, but you knew so immediately they said your mom could go with you. | ||
| Yeah, for me and my mom, yeah. | ||
| How soon after that interview did you get out? | ||
| Well, about 10 days. | ||
| What was that like, those 10 days? | ||
| It was... I don't know how to... I didn't believe it, actually, until I got here. | ||
| Because even at the airport, I was with my mom stopped for half an hour. | ||
| We were isolated from the other passengers. | ||
| I was very afraid, actually, because I... I took... I, you know, I showed my whole face, so... | ||
| We were stopped and the passport were taken from us for half an hour. | ||
| And I sat, I remember I sat there and I realized that this is maybe my last moment. | ||
| I didn't, I didn't believe that I will leave Iraq actually. | ||
| But after half an hour they came and they gave us the passports and they said, you have a very rare visa. | ||
| How did you get it? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And I don't think we can get you on the, you know, I couldn't believe that. | ||
| But soon after that, another officer came. | ||
| He was from Jordan because my travel was from Iraq to Jordan and then to the United States. | ||
| He said, OK, we will let you in, but you have to have a return back visa, you know. | ||
| But for now, you can't go. | ||
| So after that, I was relieved. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So then you get to Jordan and from there you get on the plane to the United States. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't want to say where your sister lives, but you're now living with your sister in the United States. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What was that moment when you stepped off the plane? | ||
| What was that like? | ||
| I cried. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I didn't know what to feel. | ||
| Just I cried and actually I fall down. | ||
| I couldn't walk. | ||
| And I was hugging my mom at that moment. | ||
| And at that moment I felt that I'm alive again, to be quite honest. | ||
| that, you know, and I didn't lose my life. And though I lost my passion up there, but | ||
| I got the chance to tell my story that I'm not, you know, I'm not dead. | ||
| [BLANK_AUDIO] | ||
| But other than that, it was fine with me, actually. | ||
| Yeah, it's so interesting 'cause you've said this thing about losing your passion or you don't know what to feel, | ||
| and I can only imagine after everything you've been through, but yet you came to do this. | ||
| You wanted to do this when you contacted me and said, I'm here. | ||
| You said, I want to do this and I want to share my story and all that. | ||
| So right there, to me, that's like enough of like a little ember of fire that shows that you have it. | ||
| Well, I don't know, but for me, I do consider myself, I lost it because once you are out of the situation in, In a country that you feel yourself when you are out and doing things and speak and do all these things, I do feel that, you know, this is my personality in there. | ||
| You know, I get to talk with people, I get to, you know, debate things and say that, you know, and I get to be annoyed by some leashes and stuff. | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| Believe me, I do feel that passion for me. | ||
| From what you are saying, it is passionate from your point. | ||
| Yes, I want to do that to just tell people, please do not surrender, do not give it up. | ||
| It's not too late. | ||
| We can, you know, fight and we can win it. | ||
| We can protect the freedoms and we can protect the next generation. | ||
| What matters for me, the next, you know, generation because now we are done with, you know, you can't teach a 20 years old Women or men, or maybe 40 years old, to leave, for example, Islam, to forget these ideas, to live as a human being. | ||
| I can't, for me. | ||
| Because they are convinced that Islam is the most perfect religion, and all the people I don't want to go too deep into the religion part because I think your story is so powerful in and of itself, but do you think that the religion | ||
| Can be reformed from the inside? | ||
| Because I know that there's a big conversation and I've talked to a lot of the people on both sides of it. | ||
| Some people who say Islam has to just be left altogether and choose atheism or choose another set of beliefs altogether, secularism or even another religion. | ||
| And then there's another group of people that say, no, it can be reformed. | ||
| Christianity was reformed. | ||
| Most religions go through some kind of reformation. | ||
| Well, the Reformation is a delusion. | ||
| I don't believe in it, because what a lot of people now do in the Reformation, actually it's not Reformation, it's transformation. | ||
| Reformation, for me, it does not exist because you have verses in a book, you believe it is written by God. | ||
| So how could you reform verses that is in Koran written by God You are admitting yourself, this is not a perfect religion. | ||
| Your God is not perfect. | ||
| And number two, you are admitting that there is no such a God. | ||
|
unidentified
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You are a Kafir. | |
| This is what Islam is all about. | ||
| If you disobey what is in Qur'an, any word of it, you are Kafir, you are infidel, unbeliever. | ||
| So the reformers who are trying to reform verses, or trying to say that, for example, Atheism is not punished by death, or the gay are not punished by, you know, death or stuff. | ||
| This is not true. | ||
| I mean, there are direct verses to say gays, you know, they deserve the death. | ||
| And infidels as well. | ||
| So how can you reform that? | ||
| And there are verses to attack the Christians and the Jews. | ||
| How could you do that? | ||
| I mean, this is nonsense. | ||
| The reformation Itself is nonsense for me. | ||
| Transformation, what they are doing now is trying to, you know, to put a perfect image for Islam. | ||
| Islam is not a perfect religion. | ||
| It's not even a religion. | ||
| It's a political ideology set by Muhammad. | ||
| Muhammad was a genius back his time. | ||
| He studied, you know, the old religions because basically religion is, you know, It came from Judaism. | ||
| We didn't know anything about religions, basically. | ||
| But he studied that. | ||
| I do believe in that. | ||
| He studied all these things, and he put it in Koran. | ||
| He said he put the Jews' stories, the Christian stories, in Koran. | ||
| And the different part was, the additional part, was his story in the Koran. | ||
| There is nothing different about the Koran except Muhammad's story and what he did. | ||
| So, all the talk about Islam can be reformed is nonsense, but you can't leave Islam. | ||
| Yes, you can't leave Islam. | ||
| You can't practice Islam. | ||
| You can't practice it. | ||
| But you will end up like ISIS. | ||
| Because I do believe that a good Muslim who is, you know, following Islam and be just like Muhammad, a bad Muslim who are the majority of Muslims who do not know how to pray, they don't know what is Islam all about. | ||
| They don't know even what is in Quran or Hadith or anything about that, and the ugly side of Muslims who | ||
| are the people who know about Islam, but they don't speak. | ||
| They don't share their ideas. | ||
| So for me, I want people and all these what I call them, I'm sorry, bad Muslims, to leave | ||
| Because they are atheists, to be quite honest with you. | ||
| Every time I speak to them, they don't believe in what's in the Quran. | ||
| They sometimes laugh, you know, we do laugh. | ||
| But they follow al-taqiyyah. | ||
| It is, you know, al-taqiyyah. | ||
| It is something you act in front of the majority of people. | ||
| So, for me, I do think that all these bad Muslims can leave Islam and be atheists. | ||
| And they can practice anything they want. | ||
| Just leave Islam, because Islam is all about submission. | ||
| It's all about, you know, forcing others to be, actually, to be slaves. | ||
| And it is not the religion of peace. | ||
| Mohammed is not a peaceful man. | ||
| I mean, he killed Abu Uthak. | ||
| He was a 120-year-old Jew man who, you know, who was against Mohammed. | ||
| He didn't attack Mohammed with sword. | ||
| He only said, this is not, you know, a religion. | ||
| Mohammed is a liar. | ||
| He killed him, and he killed a woman, Asma bint Marwan. | ||
| She was sleeping with her children, and he said one of his men to kill her. | ||
| He killed even Abdullah bin Sa'd. | ||
| Abdullah bin Sa'd was interesting because Abdullah bin Sa'd, how did he, how did, how, how he became an unbeliever in Muhammad. | ||
| He used to write for Muhammad. | ||
| Muhammad, you know, when Gabriel came to him and he told him, All the verses about, you know, and, you know, the talk about it in Qur'an. | ||
| So, Muhammad used to have people to write for him. | ||
| He was spoken, you know, the angels spoke to Muhammad, so he can translate all these verses to the other people who used to write for him. | ||
| So, Abdullah bin Sa'd, he used to write for Muhammad. | ||
| And he, a lot of, you know, books are mentioned that Abdullah bin Sa'ad tried to change some words. | ||
| when he used to write for Mohammed. | ||
| To get, to see Mohammed, if he can notice that he changed, yeah, the words. | ||
| He was the first ever copy editor. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| But Mohammed didn't change that, didn't, sorry, didn't notice that Abdullah bin Sa'ad changed some, you know, words or anything. | ||
| And sometimes it says in another, you know, references or books, it said that | ||
| Abdullah bin Salad and others suggested some ideas to Muhammad to put in the Quran. | ||
| So, Abdullah bin Salad, when he saw that, he became unbeliever. | ||
| He said, "This is all, you know, "all Muhammad's work." | ||
| and work. | ||
| So for me, all the talk about Reformation, to get you to the point, I don't believe in it. | ||
| And I don't want people to feel for that. | ||
| You just don't believe in it. | ||
| Christianity was reformed, the Church, the Catholic Church actually reformed, not the, you know, the book or the rules in the book. | ||
| No. | ||
| People changed, reformed Christianity. | ||
| Because, why? | ||
| Because they left it, you know? | ||
| They practiced their lives and, you know, anything they want to think about. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, that's the thing. | ||
| Most people who practice religion, even people who consider themselves religious, actually are secular and they have some, you know, traditional values or some memories or traditions or things like that. | ||
| All right, let's not go too far. | ||
| Next time you come on, because I think this is going to be just the first of many times that we do this, because I think there's so many great things in your future. | ||
| I know it, actually. | ||
| So let's just talk about what it's been like to live in America a little bit. | ||
| So, like, you get to your sisters. | ||
| You know, I'm sure the first couple of days, all the emotion stuff, but what was it like to go out for the first time, wear what you want, cut your hair the way you want, all of that? | ||
| What's it been like? | ||
| Well, I think it's, well, it was very amazing for me, you know, just to go out and not be, you know, attacked. | ||
| I'm just a girl, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And going out just with my face, with my hair, that feels for me very amazing to be treated, you know, as a human being because in my country I was not, actually. | ||
| And I used to cut my hair just like, you know, boys because it's very important for me to be the way I am because sometimes I do put myself into that. | ||
| You know why? | ||
| Because I want to say that it's my right to be who I am in my country. | ||
| Now, I don't have to because, I mean, I'm just, I don't know how to say that. | ||
|
unidentified
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You can do whatever you want here. | |
| Amazing for me just to be who I am and just to walk down the street, even during the night. | ||
| I can walk without anyone attacking me or harassing me or, you know, discriminating me. | ||
| So it's very amazing for me. | ||
| What kind of things have you been exposed to? | ||
| Pizza? | ||
| What do you love about America? | ||
| I get the idea stuff. | ||
| I'm with you on all the idea stuff. | ||
| What have you found here that you love? | ||
|
unidentified
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A certain type of clothing or stores or food? | |
| I love everything. | ||
| I love everything. | ||
| I love the nature. | ||
| I love the land I'm in. | ||
| I love the people, you know, I see all day. | ||
| Sometimes I do just sit and stare, you know, at you guys and think, what are you? | ||
| And what do you think? | ||
| And how did you, you know, be like that? | ||
| Or, you know, act like that? | ||
| So for me, it's just, I love the whole thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think, well, you're not, I think. | ||
| I can truly say, like, to me, that this, what we've done here and connecting with you in the first place and the fact that you're here, you know, we did this sort of imaginary thing on Skype somehow, you know, this thing that neither one of us can explain. | ||
| We somehow did that from, you know, 10,000 miles apart or whatever it is and that you made it and you're here and I see a light in you and even if you have some of that stuff that you have to work through and all that, of course, | ||
| but I know you're gonna do amazing things. | ||
| And there's so many people I wanna introduce you to. | ||
| Like, I just know so many people that-- | ||
| And I hope so. | ||
| Yeah, and I will, I will. | ||
| And we are now friends and we're gonna do stuff. | ||
| And just really, it's beyond inspiring what you've done. | ||
| And I think the amount of people for all the ways that Richard Dawkins and Sam and Ayaan | ||
| and whoever else affected you, I think that's you now. | ||
| That really is you now. | ||
| And I know the amount of people that are going to watch this. | ||
| Tell me a little bit about what you want to do while you're here and finish your studies and all that, because I think a lot of people are going to be reaching out to you. | ||
| Yeah, first I was contacted to share my story on The Free Thought today, and they did. | ||
| And, you know, I'm contacted by other reporters, so hopefully that will be done. | ||
| Now I want to start something with my education. | ||
| I want to finish my Master's in here. | ||
| I want to be a protective, you know, person in this society, because I do believe in this society. | ||
| And I want to be part of it. | ||
| And at the same time, I want to share my story further than that. | ||
| I want to share my thoughts, so you can hear from me. | ||
| I know that I'm tiny, and I'm not that important, but for me, it's very important to share what I have seen in my country. | ||
| and what I've gone through. | ||
| So now I'm trying to apply for the master's program and we'll see from that. | ||
| Well, I know how many people reached out to you last time. | ||
| Even in that 24 hours before, before the death threats came through, | ||
| How many people were reaching out to you and saying, how can I help her and all that? | ||
| Yeah, a lot of people, you know, reached out and they tried to connect me to you and again, and to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, a lot of them actually. | ||
| They were very, you know, very eager to help in another way. | ||
| And they were, you know, contacting even the U.S. | ||
| Embassy back in Iraq. | ||
| But a lot of them were actually reached out by, I think, a reporter who helped in my case, and eventually another people, I think a director at that point, and ultimately to the people who got me here. | ||
| Yeah, I'm very grateful to all the people who supported my case and who even, you know, just thought about me. | ||
| I'm very grateful to that. | ||
| And I can't say no more. | ||
| And I can't even express it in words. | ||
| Other than that, I'm very thankful. | ||
| Well, you truly never owe me any other thanks, if anything. | ||
| And I owe you. | ||
|
unidentified
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All of you. | |
| I owe you a thanks because this is... No. | ||
| No, I owe you and all of you my life and everything I went through. | ||
| And hopefully, I get to see all the people. | ||
| You will. | ||
| I promise you, you will. | ||
| And we're going to do this again on camera, but more importantly, we're going to build something together off camera. | ||
| And I'm so excited for your adventure, and we're going to post some links down below if there's any ways that people can contact you now, because I know how many people are going to reach out to you. | ||
| So, thank you. | ||
| I say thank you to you. | ||
| That's all I can say. | ||
| I say I thank you truly from the bottom of my heart. | ||
| And, you know, again, I'm very grateful to you and all the people who helped me and people who kept me alive and who kept the hope and a bit of passion in me. | ||
| I'm very grateful to you. |
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