Nov. 7, 2017 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:34:46
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unidentified
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Outro music. | |
| Alright, YouTube. | ||
| This is it. | ||
| All of you. | ||
| All of you out there in the digital universe have been waiting for this, and especially on the Twitter. | ||
| The anonymous people, and the furry cats, and the green frogs, and the rest of you. | ||
| You've all wanted this. | ||
| So I want to set a couple things up before I mention and I say hello to my guests today. | ||
| I'm sitting between two people that I consider friends, two people that I respect, two people that were brave enough to not just fight about things online and from the comforts of anonymity, but two people who were willing to sit across from each other with serious disagreements, with some bad blood there and some things being said already. | ||
| But we're willing to come here and talk about everything that we're going to talk about for the next hour. | ||
| And to me, that already is a win for everything that's going on in the country these days, everything that's going on online these days, and everything else. | ||
| Beyond that, the three of us. | ||
| Oh, you know what? | ||
| I'm going to do some intros first. | ||
| So, of course, you guys know Candace Owens, Red Pill Black. | ||
| Candace was a guest on this show just about three weeks ago, and I think that was one of the things that kind of put you on the map. | ||
| Literally about four or five days later, it seems that this whole explosion about what social autopsy is or what it was kind of happened. | ||
| Anyway, welcome back to The Rubin Report. | ||
| I didn't know it was gonna happen that quickly. | ||
| I'm happy to be here. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I'm happy you're hosting this. | ||
| Yeah, and to my right is Blair White, who is a friend of mine who has been on the show a couple times and third time now you have entered. | ||
| That is a rare Is it? | ||
| I think we have a couple four-timers, but you might be the one three-timer right now. | ||
| We'll go for four next time. | ||
| We will definitely go for four. | ||
| But you are an absolutely outspoken and, I think, irreverent fighter against so many of the forces that I'm fighting against all the time. | ||
| And both of you, I think, are fearless defenders of the things that you care about. | ||
| Just a couple of quick things. | ||
| I think that the three of us sitting here, if I dare use a little of identity politics against itself for a moment... Gay trans black? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A black conservative. | ||
| A trans woman who really leans right. | ||
| Do you call yourself a conservative? | ||
| Yeah, that's easiest. | ||
| Okay, so we've got a black conservative, a trans conservative, a gay liberal, but I'm an old school liberal, which is everything against identity politics these days, and I know none of us care about that. | ||
| That's not that long ago. | ||
| but I think it's important just to put it out there that we're doing this and that in and of itself | ||
| is a little bit of a statement right there. | ||
| And we're doing this face to face. | ||
| And more importantly than anything else perhaps, we all were lefties. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| We all were on the other side of perhaps where we're at now politically. | ||
| It's wildly different. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Three years ago. | ||
| Yeah, that's not that long ago. | ||
| You were wildly different. | ||
| 18 months ago. | ||
| Eighteen months ago and I've kind of had a slow evolution over these last couple years. | ||
| And I think all of those things are worth saying because I think actually that there's a lot that we do agree on and hopefully we can get to some of that. | ||
| But I know you guys are watching because you want to find out more about what actually happened with Candace's website, Social Autopsy. | ||
| Now she explained this fully to me when we sat down about a month ago. | ||
| And then after that a bunch of YouTubers started making videos about Her comments on it, was some of it true? | ||
| It sounds like maybe some definitions were slightly confused. | ||
| I think I've talked enough. | ||
| I thought the best way to start would be for you simply to just explain once again your involvement in social autopsy and why you did it and sort of where it's at at the moment and then we'll go from there. | ||
| Right, so I just want to start off because we just had a conversation off camera. | ||
| She posted something that said my predictions that I talked about. | ||
| I'm not comfortable using the she pronoun. | ||
| Not because, it's not anything to be disrespectful, it's just that a lot of people that follow me don't know that Blair is trans and a lot of people that follow her maybe don't know me, vice versa, and I think that it betrays the audience when you No, we're definitely adults. | ||
| sound like this is a petty cat fight and there are two girls sitting across from a table | ||
| when in fact it is a grown man sitting across from a grown woman who has had a lot of things | ||
| to say about me when I've never even met you or said negative comment about you. | ||
| So I just want that to be very clear. | ||
| Happy to for the rest of this. | ||
| Yeah, it should be known. | ||
| We're both adults, you know, you're a grown man. | ||
| No, we're definitely adults. | ||
| I just think it's interesting how you act like you're above the ad hominem, you're above | ||
| attacking someone when in reality you and I both know that the situation is you're using | ||
| those pronouns and you're saying what you're saying, calling me a grown man. | ||
| That's not an attack, that's a fact. | ||
| Let me finish that. | ||
| You're doing that in a way to be passive-aggressive and petty, but in a way that your audience doesn't actually read, because you do have the very hardcore conservative audience, and so they're not really going to read it as petty. | ||
| Everyone else will, though. | ||
| No, I don't want them to think that this is a catfight between two girls. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| I'm saying that you are- That's a dancing member. | ||
| It really isn't though, but we can move on because it really isn't about how she dresses. | ||
| Me and biology think you're a man. | ||
| I'm happy to call you a she for the rest so that we can move on from the pronoun thing. | ||
| But I want to make it clear because I don't want to have to afterwards say, if this is your stance on trans, why did you sit across from a trans person and call them she? | ||
| So I'm making it clear because as we know, you guys like to dig up every single thing that I do and every single man. | ||
| How have I dug up everything you've done? | ||
| Out of everyone, Candace, there's been a lot of YouTubers that have come out against you. | ||
| So I actually have a question for you before we go. | ||
| Out of all the YouTubers who have dug stuff up about you... I never made a video. | ||
| I'm a YouTuber. | ||
| If I don't think something... You jumped on a video. | ||
| I jumped on a video. | ||
| It was a four hour stream. | ||
| Which I was on for probably 15 minutes. | ||
| An hour and 15 minutes, exactly. | ||
| I was not on a stream for an hour and 15 minutes. | ||
| You were on for an hour and 15 minutes until Barbara came on the stream. | ||
| I just don't want to get too lost in the weeds of every little word I think. | ||
| Look, you guys know my feelings about free speech. | ||
| I'm not going to tell you what to say, how to refer to Blair, and Blair can obviously defend herself. | ||
| We can do all that. | ||
| But just so we don't get too lost in that stuff, let's just try to stick to the original Okay, so the back story to the back story. | ||
| I think it's fine that you premised it that way, you defended yourself, I think that's totally fine. | ||
| But we could end up in the back part of this forever. | ||
| So let's just get to the, how did this whole thing start? | ||
| Okay, so the backstory to the backstory, obviously you know about social autopsy, | ||
| but there's a very relevant part of this, which is essentially that when I was in high school, | ||
| I had an experience that happened to me, and it's something that I like to talk about factually, | ||
| and I hate talking about it because it involves other people. | ||
| And I'm out here talking about my opinions, my beliefs, when you're involving other people, | ||
| I think it's a little unfair. | ||
| When I was a junior in high school, I received about, | ||
| One night I was sitting on the couch with my boyfriend, and I received anonymous phone calls. | ||
| And at the end of watching Talladega Nights with my boyfriend, I picked up the phone, I listened to the voicemails, and there were people, four boys, that were screaming back and forth, calling me a dirty nigger, saying we're going to tarnify your family, saying we're going to do to you like we did to Martin Luther King, put a bullet in the back of your head, made references to Rosa Parks. | ||
| It was really probably the nastiest thing that I've ever heard in my entire life. | ||
| After hearing that, and by the way, this is not a victim story, it's just something that factually happened that you guys can all research. | ||
| After hearing those voicemails, I went to school the next day and I didn't call the cops or anything, but I was a little terrified because I did not know four people that wanted to see me dead and that hated me. | ||
| Period. | ||
| I went to school the next day, the teacher essentially was, we were talking in a philosophy class, I brought up what had happened, it was like a moment where it made sense to bring up what happened the night before, and the teacher jumped up and said, like, you're going to the principal right now, you're reporting this, like, that's very serious, like, I want to take you right now. | ||
| He picks me up, I go into the principal's office, and she hears the voicemails, which I still had, there were three of them, and she made the decision to call the police. | ||
| Like, totally out of, I would have never called the police if I had done it the night before. | ||
| It turns out by some random stroke of like super misfortune that one of the kids that was in the car when they left these voicemails happened to be the current governor of Connecticut's son. | ||
| And where this would have normally been like maybe like a tap on the finger sort of a thing, this turned into an FBI investigation. | ||
| And, you know, the then mayor was making comments that were very, like, you know, political. | ||
| It became political. | ||
| So all of a sudden, I'm in school, and I've got the NAACP on the front steps. | ||
| I'm very—if you know anything about me, I hate the NAACP because of this. | ||
| I think that they are a trash group and that they literally extort black people's emotions for pay, which is another thing. | ||
| Blair, you don't know where I stand in anything for you to call me a fraudulent conservative. | ||
| You don't know the things that I've lived through. | ||
| So that was something that I didn't really understand. | ||
| A lot of things I don't understand to you, so I have a million questions for you. | ||
| Because unfortunately, you'd have me blocked up until like two days ago over one tweet I sent to you. | ||
| No, it was a live stream. | ||
| It was a live stream. | ||
| I went on a live stream. | ||
| First of all, it was not for an hour and 15 minutes. | ||
| I hope people go and fact check that because I was not on there for that long. | ||
| That's the first thing. | ||
| The second thing is, again, you had me blocked before the live stream. | ||
| You had me blocked before the live stream. | ||
| And you've had a million people blocked. | ||
| You've blocked everyone. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I'm going to get into that. | ||
| I just want to finish this. | ||
| I know, but I'm going to finish what I was saying first. | ||
| You've had a million people blocked. | ||
| But I was talking, so that doesn't really make sense. | ||
| No, I'm just saying I'm glad that we're actually having a conversation because prior to this, | ||
| the reason why it's actually gone to the point where I have to do on the Rubin Report rather | ||
| than just a quick exchange on Twitter or you making a video on your own channel is because | ||
| you've blocked conversations. | ||
| So I just want to be clear, you're allowed to tweet out your trash and I am supposed | ||
| to then defend myself rather than you coming to me first for answers. | ||
| You're absolutely not supposed to defend yourself. | ||
| You don't have to do anything. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So you're insulted that I blocked you after you insulted me publicly to what do you have, $130,000? | ||
| Does that even make sense to you, like saying that right now? | ||
| Candace. | ||
| Candace, you have every right to block me. | ||
| There's no, you can not respond, you can respond, you can block me, whatever it is. | ||
| What I'm saying is, people are criticizing the way that you've handled the situation. | ||
| You have the backstory, which I will absolutely let you finish, but the way you're dealing with people calling out the story and calling out things that they think maybe are fraudulent, maybe they're not fraudulent, maybe you can clear that up, is you haven't actually cleared it up. | ||
| You've blocked everyone. | ||
| People can attest to that. | ||
| Everyone. | ||
| Andy Warski, Bunty King. | ||
| Dave Collin, who actually provided screenshots of the things he said to you. | ||
| So unlike me, I can see you blocking me for calling you trash. | ||
| And honestly, I'll say I'm sorry for calling you trash. | ||
| That's totally fine. | ||
| But as far as him, he sent like four or five very respectful tweets, just asking for questions, asking for your side of the story. | ||
| So if he made a video, he could actually do that. | ||
|
unidentified
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I would just like to- All right, well, hold on. | |
| And you blocked them. | ||
| They made the videos and then asked questions. | ||
| I don't do that. | ||
| I don't negotiate with terrorists. | ||
| You don't get to make a video about me lying. | ||
| lying, okay, and then saying, now you better come to me and answer me. | ||
| Who does that? | ||
| That's the opposite way of handling anything. | ||
| It's an expression, I don't negotiate with terrorists, don't take it to heart, it's an expression. | ||
| I'm not taking it to heart, it's just kind of silly. | ||
| All right, hold on. | ||
| It's an expression. | ||
| Hold on, we gotta get the full story before, because otherwise there's gonna be enough people | ||
| watching this that still aren't clear on the full story, that if we go too far into the follow-up, | ||
| we're gonna get lost here. | ||
| By the way, I just really quick wanna mention that when you texted me and said, | ||
| I wanna do this on your show, and I'd like to do it with Blair, | ||
| I thought about it for a minute, because I wasn't even sure | ||
| I think that this Twitter, YouTube drama, I think, causes, it's partly, we're all here because of just this drama machine that just endlessly drags everybody. | ||
| But, to both of your credit, you asked me to do it, and I texted you, and literally within 30 seconds, you said you would do it. | ||
| And people should know that, because we live in a time when no one backs themselves up. | ||
| They hide and say all this crap. | ||
| So I just want to put that out there. | ||
| But let's just get, Through the story, and then we can do the rest. | ||
| Long story short, this was categorized as a hate crime. | ||
| The FBI was involved. | ||
| I was out of school for about six weeks. | ||
| And just imagine, like, I didn't even want to report it. | ||
| And then having like what felt like your entire life, it was front page of Connecticut newspapers | ||
| for two months of people. | ||
| And a lot of the stuff that you had to read, because remember, the FBI was involved, so | ||
| they wouldn't make any arrests. | ||
| They wouldn't do anything because they wanted to dot their I's and cross T's. | ||
| They're dealing with a politician, a Democratic politician, right? | ||
| And he's not being honest. | ||
| He could have easily just been like, my kid did something really stupid. | ||
| He's trying to be a politician, essentially. | ||
| And when these arrests were finally made or while the investigation was going on, people | ||
| were just on the Internet just speculating, just like not being aware that they were talking | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| I was probably the eldest. | ||
| I was 17 years old. | ||
| This youngest person in that car, I didn't know any of them by the way. | ||
| This was like a drunk phone call. | ||
| I knew one kid out of the four kids. | ||
| The youngest kid in that car was 14 years old. | ||
| So these kids are getting called racists. | ||
| And I personally, like, I hate labels like racism. | ||
| I hate when you call somebody racist, sexist. | ||
| It really stings me because I think it's wrong. | ||
| I think it's wrong that a 14-year-old got labeled a racist instead of being reprimanded or told why it was wrong. | ||
| So I'm very against it. | ||
| Well, another thing that, you know, from my history I've always been very conservative on. | ||
| Following this event, I barely made it to college because of this. | ||
| It was something that was really taxing that happened in my senior year. | ||
| And following this event, I developed severe anorexia. | ||
| It's a part of my story. | ||
| It's something that you need to be sorry about. | ||
| People that have anorexia are just looking for a way to control. | ||
| It's a control mechanism. | ||
| So I felt like my life was completely out of control and people were... | ||
| Basically able to freely say whatever they wanted about me, and it was permanently on the internet. | ||
| Like, this situation that happened, and the NAACP, final politicians, and nobody gave a shit about the kids that were involved in this. | ||
| Nobody cared about the kids that were involved in this. | ||
| I developed anorexia. | ||
| I think the ringleader that kept calling him, that had these kids call me, went on to have DUIs. | ||
| He was a closeted gay at the time. | ||
| Everybody's life got ruined by this. | ||
| And it was something that I never wanted, and it ate me alive. | ||
| It just was like, this is it. | ||
| Like, the internet is forever, and these things happen, you get to write about them, and you get to politicize something that's not true. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right? | |
| Trumped, when I got over my anorexia, I think I was in, uh, I was 22 at the time. | ||
| It was in 2012. | ||
| Like, I had fully, honestly, just, I thought through it. | ||
| It was one of those things that I had to sit down and really question, where did this anorexia come from? | ||
| What am I trying to control? | ||
| And what have I learned from this? | ||
| I thought about children. | ||
| I thought to myself, like, Technology is something that people don't talk about. | ||
| I gave a TED Talk on this, which many people that have staunchly defended me have seen my TED Talks. | ||
| They knew where my heart was at when I did this. | ||
| I felt like, kids, we are in, like, a different generation. | ||
| You're also young as well, so you have, you know, we have Instagram, Facebook. | ||
| They never had this. | ||
| Like, you, when you were in school, not trying to, like, make it seem like you're a dinosaur. | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, why, Candace? | |
| Why? | ||
| You didn't have this. | ||
| There are 10-year-olds that are killing themselves over Snapchat. | ||
| And it's all just because of the Internet. | ||
| When I was growing up, my dad had a beeper. | ||
| And then all of a sudden we have Facebook and Instagram and all of these things. | ||
| And I thought to myself, what a way if I can come back and create something that helps kids navigate technology without ruining their lives. | ||
| Do these kids need to be arrested? | ||
| For saying mean things? | ||
| No. | ||
| I disagree with that. | ||
| Like, I disagree. | ||
| Even though they characterized me as the victim, and characterized these children as the aggressors, I felt that it was wrong. | ||
| Okay, so you created Social Autopsy with the idea that it was sort of gonna almost self-police some of the kids' ability to ruin themselves. | ||
| Right, exactly. | ||
| So, what we thought was, what if there was a way, when kids do these stupid things, and we initially always thought about kids, we had to change it because people said, first try it on adults, try to send it a little looser because people are sensitive when it comes to children, and we said, what if there was a way that we could archive what they say with A no-no type of a punishment, like maybe it's held for three months, and everybody, like all of these schools, we were meeting with principals of schools, of high schools, before we even decided what we wanted to do. | ||
| To say, how can we help? | ||
| What would be helpful? | ||
| What do kids care about? | ||
| Well, they care about being on the football team, right? | ||
| What if you said, you're on Social Autism, all these schools have this program, you said this to Carolina, whatever it is, now you don't get to try out for the football team. | ||
| Something that's like petty, you know? | ||
| Better than getting arrested, right? | ||
| It's better than knowing that you were a part of someone's suicide because you said something mean. | ||
| And because I don't think kids have the mentality that their brains are underdeveloped. | ||
| Like, our brains were underdeveloped to really understand the implications of what they're doing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Social Autopsy was born. | ||
| The web developer that I was speaking to, and I was actually at the time, remember I used to work in finance, I was talking to some potential investors and they said, as I mentioned, start with adults. | ||
| Start with adults, do something, build something that we can kind of see what you're thinking of how it would work in terms of archiving things, and we'll go from there. | ||
| All right, so to be clear, and then I'm going to let you jump in, when you created this, it was basically to defend some of these kids from wrecking their lives, and schools would be able to look and maybe go, oh, you actually did have a decent track record here. | ||
| You said this stupid thing, but we're not going to let that do anything. | ||
| And unless I'm understanding, I want, you know, we have to do a little something here with definitions of words, because What you're describing there doesn't sound to me like a doxing website. | ||
| A doxing website would be, I'm using this site to release information about people. | ||
| But you're saying basically this was going to be an archive home for schools to look at this information and sift through it. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Okay. | ||
| So, I think calling it an archive, I mean, it literally is an archive, but it's also a doxing website. | ||
| Public people's personal information, it is doxxing. | ||
| It's not personal information. | ||
| Why not? | ||
| Because it was public. | ||
| Because it was on Facebook? | ||
| That's still the definition of doxxing. | ||
| If you share someone else's... No, it's not. | ||
| No, it's not. | ||
| You can't change the definition of doxxing. | ||
| Hold on, hold on. | ||
| I actually have the definition right here. | ||
| If you share someone else's personal information without their consent, it is doxxing. | ||
| So Google doxxes everyone? | ||
| No, I'll finish. | ||
| Especially when it comes to kids. | ||
| I mean, she's definitely playing the whole, like, warn and protect kids thing, which I think, honestly, your heart could have very well been in the right place, but the reality is, when you aggregate information of children and you attach it to where they go to school, which was the intent of your website, in fact, you actually said that it was the best time to be on the website if you were a child because it teaches you... Can you slow down? | ||
| I literally can't follow you right now. | ||
| You said that it was the best time to be on your website when you're a child because it teaches them responsibility of what they say online, right? | ||
| We said that in a video. | ||
| You said that in a video. | ||
| Not a single child was on there. | ||
| I'm not saying there was. | ||
| I didn't say there was. | ||
| Yeah, because we didn't want to shut off. | ||
| Like, if people asked questions, we didn't want to shut off the possibility of having children. | ||
| If we found out this worked and this was harmless and, you know, no harm, no foul, we didn't want to come out and say, we're never going to put a minor on here. | ||
| Because again, the whole reason I thought of the idea was because of what happened to me when I was a minor. | ||
| Well, it's actually illegal to even put the child's information on there. | ||
| There was no children, so this is like a fantasy conversation right now. | ||
| No, it's not a fantasy conversation. | ||
| It was your intent. | ||
| That's what you don't really understand. | ||
| You think that because the website didn't actually come to fruition that people still don't have a right to criticize the idea of it. | ||
| That's exactly what I think. | ||
| That's exactly what you think. | ||
| But regardless, you made it very clear that your intent was to put that information on your website. | ||
| It actually violates the Children's Internet Protection Act. | ||
| So it was illegal, so that's why your Kickstarter was actually All right, wait, hold on. | ||
| So let's pause for a sec. | ||
| There were no children on it. | ||
| You're talking about- I'm not saying that there was. | ||
| I'm saying you had the intent, which is why- This is a wild imagination you have. | ||
| So you're saying that- A wild imagination? | ||
| Is it that wild? | ||
| If this was your intent, just so we're clear, we're here because if this was your intent, and if it had happened, even though it didn't, right? | ||
| Candace- That's why we're pissed, and that's why we're trying to ruin everything that you are, because we have decided that we are policing- How have I tried to ruin it? | ||
| What could've, would've, and should've happened. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is that correct? | |
| How have I tried to ruin it? | ||
| We're now, we're dealing in could've, would've, should've? | ||
| It's not- It didn't happen. | ||
| You're admitting it didn't happen. | ||
| Candace- You're talking about acts- Are you gonna let me finish? | ||
| literally talking bring up laws right now that she would have been violated | ||
| even though it wasn't violated even though it wasn't created because your | ||
| intent is what we were Chris I think I intended I drunk I don't try but let me | ||
| respond just make it not we're not making sense because you're not doing | ||
| yes or no maybe if I could finish a sentence you'd understand that I am | ||
| making sense but if I can actually reveal my point to you how are you | ||
| gonna just leave it with the definition of Doc's is that is where you want to | ||
| go definition like I need to be able to finish what I'm saying is the thing like | ||
| I okay so are you telling me that there it's absolutely insane and it's | ||
| absolutely fantasyland for someone like you to come out in your front a staunch | ||
| free speech supporter correct You come out and you say, I support free speech. | ||
| That's something you said? | ||
| When did I say that? | ||
| I do, but I'm asking you what you said. | ||
| You come out and you say as if that was my whole shtick, but I'm asking you why did I say that. | ||
| I didn't say it was your whole shtick. | ||
| I said that's part of who you are and what you believe is that you are in support of free speech. | ||
| Do you think it's absolutely insane for someone to question someone who supports free speech? | ||
|
unidentified
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The reason that I support free speech... I have to finish my question. | |
| I have a lot of questions for you. | ||
| You have to let me, like, actually ask them. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| Okay, so... | ||
| You are someone who supports free speech as part of your message as a conservative, which is a great message. | ||
| Do you really think it's that crazy for people to see Redpo Black supporting free speech and then look back a year ago and see that she tried to create a website that docks people? | ||
| And you can say it wasn't doxing, but when you publish people's information, it is doxing. | ||
| We're going to get to the bottom. | ||
| That is not true. | ||
| It is doxing. | ||
| That is categorically false. | ||
| Let's let you start with that. | ||
| I just don't understand how it's perceived to be so insane. | ||
| First, two questions here. | ||
| First, it's important that we address doxing and I'm going to let you do that. | ||
| Yeah, alright, so let's just, one thing at a time here, because there's a lot here. | ||
| So first off, we can pull up, you're welcome to pull up the definition of doxing. | ||
| I think part of what's happening here is we're struggling with a couple of, as I said, splash page, which you did forward me some emails, you guys were referring to this as a splash page the entire time. | ||
| Now, in essence, that may have been some confusion by your web guy. | ||
| I mean, you forwarded me the whole change. | ||
| It was last February. | ||
| He's been calling it a splash page. | ||
| That's what her web guy was calling it. | ||
| My web developer called it that. | ||
|
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Hold on a second. | |
| You know it wasn't a splash page. | ||
| A splash page is literally defined as a logo before you go into a website. | ||
| We were building a technology. | ||
| You're not understanding this. | ||
| I'm absolutely understanding this. | ||
| No, you're not. | ||
| And now you can let me finish. | ||
| We were building a technology, not a website. | ||
| So what he was saying is this is a splash. | ||
| This is a splash of what we were actually... We never built it. | ||
| That's the whole point you're missing. | ||
| When you're building a technology... Okay, so did you not have a database of 20,000 plus people? | ||
| That's what you've stated. | ||
| There are two statements you said. | ||
| There's a database of 20,000 plus people and that it was a non-functioning splash page. | ||
| One of those statements can be true. | ||
| Which one is true? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| You're not missing a point. | ||
| This is what he's trying to tell you. | ||
| You're getting hung up by SplashPage. | ||
| You're not listening to the fact that he's telling you that he read the emails between me and the web developer. | ||
| You're not listening to that. | ||
| Hang on guys. | ||
| Candace, what I think people are confused by is, regardless of the definition of SplashPage, if it was non-functioning, how did it, did it in fact collect the information of 20,000 people? | ||
| It didn't collect the information if people are writing in the information. | ||
| It was storing it. | ||
| It was an archive. | ||
| Storing and collecting? | ||
| Storing or collecting. | ||
| Let's just get some of this here. | ||
| You understand what I'm saying about the splash? | ||
| We never built the technology. | ||
| Jesus, you said there was a database and then you said all it ever was was a non-functioning splash page. | ||
| I didn't say that. | ||
| I literally quote, I did say that. | ||
| You're not listening to me. | ||
| Let me finish a sentence. | ||
| I did say that but you're not listening to me. | ||
| My web developer, I forwarded him all the emails from February. | ||
| Did you not see these? | ||
| He called it a non-functioning splash page because we hadn't yet built the technology. | ||
| You're making it seem like I'm a liar. | ||
| And that's what I wasn't okay with. | ||
| It was something that was told to me by my web developer and I repeated that. | ||
| If there was a database, it's not a non-functioning splash page. | ||
| So are you willing to take it back that it was a non-functioning splash page? | ||
| I am more than happy to admit, and like I said to Dave... | ||
| I am more than happy to admit that when I stated that I said that I regurgitated verbatim and he saw the emails what my web developer called it as soon as we started he said because we're not building technology that you don't have the money to we had to raise money to build the technology that was fully funded Okay, hold on. | ||
| I think that's an important distinction, what we just got to there. | ||
| I'm agreeing with you, and I think Blair will take my word for it, that I saw the emails that your web developer referred to it as a non-functioning splash page, but you're also acknowledging that that's not quite right. | ||
| Yeah, and that's fine. | ||
| Not quite right is directly not true. | ||
| Okay, but the problem with you saying it's not true is that you're making it seem like I'm a liar. | ||
| I was never a liar. | ||
| I said what was told to me from the very time that we started this, what my web developer called it from start to finish, I said exactly what was told to me. | ||
| The issue is that you're making it seem like I intentionally lied to try to hide something. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| You don't get to call somebody a liar and a liar and a fraud-ass bitch, which is what you called me a thousand times. | ||
| You're a fraud-ass bitch, probably a bitch. | ||
| I told you exactly what I was about to tell you. | ||
| I know you love to pretend you're above the anonymous. | ||
| Meanwhile, on your Twitter right now, you called YouTubers who are criticizing you bottom feeders. | ||
| You called Tree of Logic a crackhead. | ||
| You called... I genuinely think she's on drugs. | ||
| Okay, that's fine. | ||
| She said I was releasing a doxxing site in three weeks and she was scared for her life. | ||
| That's definitely not what you're seeing in real life. | ||
| That is a bit foul of a rumor to spread. | ||
| It's not a rumor. | ||
| She just said I was leasing a doxing site in three weeks! | ||
| Hold on, guys, guys, guys. | ||
| How are you, who are you defending? | ||
| This is what I don't understand. | ||
| She's right now defending an alt-right sympathizer that straight up said that I was leasing a doxing site in three weeks. | ||
| That is, that is the ground zero of this entire predicament. | ||
| Right, she started it, not Richard Spencer. | ||
| Not Richard Spencer, like you said. | ||
| I did not say Richard Spencer. | ||
| I said he perpetuated it. | ||
| Do you know the definition of perpetuate? | ||
| You said. | ||
| Do you know the definition of perpetuate, yes or no? | ||
| I said he perpetuated it. | ||
| You said that Richard Spencer made a video on you. | ||
| I said he didn't. | ||
| You said he made one. | ||
| You said he made one. | ||
| I said he perpetuated a smear campaign about me. | ||
| That's exactly what I said. | ||
| I never said he started a rumor whatsoever. | ||
| He said he made a video on you and he didn't. | ||
| There's no evidence of that. | ||
| To be honest, to be honest, I know this is going to super hurt your egos, But I didn't watch a single one of your videos except for the Google Hangout for the first hour that you were on it. | ||
| Candace, I didn't make a video on you. | ||
| You jumped in a video chat! | ||
|
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I was on someone else's live. | |
| Hour and 15 minutes. | ||
| Let's quote Blair. | ||
| She's such a mess. | ||
| This is gonna be like, honestly, intellectually, like, it's gonna be hard to get through. | ||
| She's such a mess. | ||
| The fact that anyone believes her is so sad. | ||
| She's a fraud. | ||
| She's a fraud. | ||
| She's a fraud-ass bitch. | ||
| Know that these are not hip-hop lyrics. | ||
| She's such a joke. | ||
| She's so stupid. | ||
| This bitch thinks she's going to change everything, and she's not. | ||
| Especially after going on InfoWars, which is ridiculous. | ||
| The insults that she lodged towards InfoWars, because they have a big audience, and to them watching, my apologies. | ||
| I have a lot of respect for them. | ||
| You think I'm insulting them because they have a big audience? | ||
| Because let's keep it real. | ||
| Where is she going to go after that? | ||
| Some dumbass bitch is still believing her. | ||
| For people that believed me, You're all dumbass bitches. | ||
| She's a complete SJW and people are so dumb. | ||
| By the way, this beef with her started before she ever thought about doxxing because she literally says, from the second I saw her, I thought, wow, that's definitely an act. | ||
| This is honestly envy dressed up as righteousness. | ||
| Guys, you've got to give me a chance to moderate this thing, otherwise we're just going to be crossed up all over the place. | ||
| Moderate, moderate. | ||
| Okay, so it sounds like to me, I'm just trying to get to facts here because I get it, we can We can do this all day. | ||
| We can look at every tweet that we all sent or that everyone sent to each other and all the mean little things and that's what everyone, all the people that I think are the bad actors in this and all the people that just want us to relentlessly fight, there's nothing that's gonna make them happier than to watch you two just scream at each other. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| So I am going to try to get it to something a little above that. | ||
| Okay, you made the site, you made what was referred to in your documents as a non-functioning splash page. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| You are acknowledging that it did take in information, meaning that people could submit information, but it was Facebook pages and things of that matter. | ||
| You are not denying that. | ||
| Absolutely not denying that. | ||
| So do you accept that? | ||
| Denying what? | ||
|
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Sorry. | |
| That the site that was being referred to as a non-functioning splash page did take information. | ||
| You are not denying that? | ||
| No, not at all. | ||
| Now, as I understand the definition of doxing, but this is, I think, where maybe we could get a little lost in the exact specifics, is that doxing would only be if that information was released, right? | ||
| I don't think doxing is taking in information. | ||
| And it has to be personal information. | ||
| An address, an email address, something that you could stalk and harass that person. | ||
| Just to be clear, all the site did was take in public information, correct? | ||
| Public information. | ||
| That's why they were linked. | ||
| This is what was so funny, watching this ridiculous stream with them. | ||
| He's like, yeah, I know that these profiles are real because I found people on Facebook. | ||
| Duh. | ||
| We found the people in public. | ||
| We didn't even find them. | ||
| We didn't search people's names. | ||
| It was publicly on Facebook. | ||
| If you jump in on CNN's wall, and by the way, this was all for a test. | ||
| All four tests. | ||
| So even us taking those names, these weren't people that we were even going to have on database, period. | ||
| It was just a testing phase so we could go out to investors and get funded. | ||
| That was it. | ||
| Okay, now let's pause for a sec. | ||
| I want to give you an opportunity. | ||
| It was a huge problem, especially saying that it was a testing phase. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The problem is, a lot of those people that were on in your database were docs, were actually docs. | ||
| Again... What do you mean they were actually docs? | ||
| Say what docs means to you. | ||
| If you look at the Kiwi Farms link that people are spreading around, there are people posting in that thread, sharing their personal addresses, and yes... That's bullshit! | ||
| I'm not gonna let her do that. | ||
| There was never a line for that to be included on my website. | ||
| I don't care what Kiwi Farms is. | ||
| They didn't get the address from your website. | ||
| So then I didn't docs them? | ||
|
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Hold on, hold on. | |
| Let her finish. | ||
|
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A digital basically hit list of online bullies. | |
| You're enabling vigilantes to go onto there and enact doxing or whatever they want to do. | ||
|
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These people's businesses... | |
| She's not accusing me of what Kiwi Farms did. | ||
| This is crazy. | ||
| If I take a screenshot of your name and your tweet- Tell me what this looks like. | ||
| It's not from my website, so how are you accusing me of that? | ||
| I know it's not from your website. | ||
| The point is, when you create an online digital hit list of online bullies- Vigilantes use- This was done for this. | ||
| This is done for this. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| This was done for this. | ||
| If that's not someone's address someone got because that person was on your list- Can I ask you a question? | ||
| What year was that posted? | ||
| What year was that posted? | ||
| It was last year, the same time everything happened with your website. | ||
| It was last year. | ||
| Yeah, because an actor, Zoe Quinn, attacked us and started trying- And? | ||
| Alright, wait a minute. | ||
| You're missing the point. | ||
| Just to be clear, just to be clear. | ||
| She doxxed my family on Kiwi Farms. | ||
| Okay, okay, hang on a second. | ||
| So just to be clear, what you're showing me here... And that sucks, and that's horrible. | ||
| And that's horrible. | ||
| I don't care, honestly. | ||
| It wasn't that serious. | ||
| I think even that is being blind-fortioned. | ||
| Nothing happened. | ||
| Everybody's alive. | ||
| It was just like, you know, nobody... It's been 18 months. | ||
| Nothing happened. | ||
| There were pictures. | ||
| End names. | ||
| That is all you guys have ever been able to... That's on Kiwi Farms, you're not on Social Ops-y! | ||
| Listen to me. | ||
| On your website, pictures and names. | ||
| On your website, pictures and names. | ||
| So she's admitting it's pictures and names! | ||
| How the hell is that a dox? | ||
| You can google someone's name and get pictures, is that a dox? | ||
| Oh my god, my point is the intent, Candace. | ||
| The point is when you create a digital hit list of people who are online bullies, especially when it comes to, a lot of the time it's conservatives and people who are on this, the reason why these people are on there, you can see their comments that they made, the reason why they're put on the website. | ||
| Okay, but you- Vigilantes then go to this website, the point is that it was a trash idea, it was an Orwellian nightmare, people went to it, abused it- It never launched! | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| I'm aware, but the information, the database- This is crazy. | ||
| The database was still accessible from people, that is the problem. | ||
| You never officially launched it, and thank God, never came to full fruition. | ||
| However, that information was still accessible, it was abused, and these people were doxxed. | ||
| People's businesses were put out there- She is- People's home addresses- Can I just ask you a question, just like to play devil's advocate here? | ||
| No, I'm sorry. | ||
| She did make one distinction there, which is that it wasn't your site that did the dialysing. | ||
| And that's the most important thing. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That was never my argument. | ||
| Okay, but I think it's important that we at least get that out. | ||
| I would like to play devil's advocate. | ||
| I have a question, okay? | ||
| So, my website had a picture and a name and you said their intentions were clear. | ||
| So, if I go on Facebook right now and I look under a post under CNN, okay, and I see that a person says something that I don't like... It's public. | ||
| It's public. | ||
| It's public. | ||
| However... I didn't finish my goddamn question! | ||
| Calm down. | ||
| Take a deep breath. | ||
| You calm down. | ||
| I interrupted you. | ||
| You're cursing and yelling. | ||
| I interrupted you. | ||
| Calm down. | ||
| Okay, Candace. | ||
| Damn is the worst. | ||
| You've been calling me a fraught-ass bitch and all these names, but now she's offended by damn. | ||
|
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But you're not above it because you call people bottom feeders and you're not above it. | |
| I actually think you're both above it. | ||
| Evidence for that? | ||
| Let me finish my question. | ||
| So if you're saying that the point is that people can find something, ready? | ||
| Follow my train of thought. | ||
| People can find something that they don't like and they think that this person, it's a hit list, okay? | ||
| What's stopping the person from just, why do you have to go to social, I'll talk to you, just go onto Facebook and go where we got it. | ||
| Because if you look at the comments from the people who actually used your website to dox people, and again, they doxed them, not you. | ||
| Listen, if you listen to people commenting, they're saying, this is the resource we're using. | ||
| They went to you as a resource to collect names and they doxed those people based on the mean comments that they said online. | ||
| That's the reason why they chose to hurt them. | ||
| Why not just go to Facebook and look for mean comments? | ||
| That's what we did. | ||
| Why do you need a database? | ||
| You can do that. | ||
| The problem is... This is making no sense. | ||
| It's like you're not understanding. | ||
| No, it's like you're not understanding. | ||
| It's already on Facebook. | ||
| You're upset at the second source, not looking at the first source. | ||
| No. | ||
| When you create a digital hit list of online bullies... You're calling it a digital hit list. | ||
| You're changing the narrative here. | ||
| People who want to take advantage of that will go to it, and they will dox people, and it happened. | ||
| If they really want to do that, why are we just going to a basement? | ||
| Why are you waiting for us to do it? | ||
| Do you admit that people were docked as a result of social distancing? | ||
|
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No, no. | |
| I've never said... No, absolutely not. | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Really? | ||
| No one was docked as a result of your website? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| You didn't bring us... You're now asking me what could have happened? | ||
| For all I know, you put this up today. | ||
| I didn't put... Everyone can go to Kiwi Farms and look up. | ||
| I'm sure if you Google Kiwi Farms... Okay, but she's showing me something that's not my website. | ||
| This is crazy to me. | ||
| I never said it was your website. | ||
| You said it on the test. | ||
| You said, I was doxing people. | ||
| Your exact words was, I was doxing people. | ||
| You tweeted out that I dox people. | ||
| You didn't say, this could be abused. | ||
| You literally said... That's not what you said in your tweet. | ||
| You said, I dox people. | ||
| That's what I'm saying now. | ||
|
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Was that true? | |
| Was that true? | ||
| Was that true when you said, I dox people? | ||
| Was that true? | ||
| Directly, a social autopsy did not dox people. | ||
|
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So then say, take it back! | |
| Take it back! | ||
| You tweeted something that was false. | ||
| Take it back. | ||
| What did I tweet exactly? | ||
| She doxes people. | ||
| No, no I didn't. | ||
| I said, are you, I said... Yes, you did. | ||
| I directly... Yes, you did. | ||
| Listen, I directly tweeted to you, so you're proud of doxing people with a question mark, as in a question. | ||
| That was your chance to clear it up, but you blocked it. | ||
|
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Ladies, ladies. | |
| No, no, no, no. | ||
|
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|
Ladies, ladies, ladies, ladies, ladies, ladies. | |
| You went and blocked me on stream and said that I dox people a thousand times, and then you clarified a couple of days on Twitter when I, when I asked you straight up, you said all I said was that you dox people. | ||
| All right, ladies. | ||
| You have been saying I dox people. | ||
| Don't backtrack. | ||
| It's cool to be wrong. | ||
| I just said, I just said I misused the word flash page. | ||
| Why can't you say that you lied about doxing? | ||
| Candace, listen. | ||
| If I misspoke and said that you directly dox people, that's incorrect. | ||
| But I will say right now, just listen. | ||
| Just listen. | ||
| You almost jumped. | ||
| Just listen. | ||
| I will say, your website was used as a resource for doxers. | ||
| It was. | ||
| And you have, you're looking directly at it. | ||
| Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, What do you expect, Candace, when you create a website that attaches people and their mean comments to their employers, their school, etc.? | ||
| What do you think is actually going to be the result of that? | ||
| People are going to call the school. | ||
| People are going to call them. | ||
| That's what's going to happen. | ||
| Let's pause for a second. | ||
| That's the result of the website. | ||
| Okay, so with that question in mind, it... Okay, first off, I think she is... Alright, it sounds to me if we could just try to... | ||
| Calm for a second. | ||
| You are acknowledging that the site itself was not doxing people, but that the list... And what you're saying is, I can't control what people do with that list. | ||
| Fair? | ||
| We got somewhere there, okay. | ||
| But it's like saying you can't control what people do with the list, but you create... You can just find the people. | ||
| You can do exactly what we did. | ||
| There were screenshots when someone said this. | ||
| That's like me taking a screenshot of Chelsea Hamlin and I saying that thing about Republicans, right? | ||
| And then holding onto my phone and then someone going, people use that to dox Chelsea so you're at fault. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| That literally doesn't make sense. | ||
| There's a complete difference. | ||
| By the way, let's not get lost. | ||
| This site never launched. | ||
| You acknowledge that this was misguided. | ||
| It might as well have, because the information was still accurate. | ||
| And it was accidental. | ||
| It was accidental. | ||
| I saw like six or seven. | ||
| I saw six or seven. | ||
| Six or seven. | ||
| And all those people were hurt as a result of your website. | ||
| All of them. | ||
| Let's pause for a second. | ||
| You acknowledge that this was misguided now. | ||
| I've said it in every interview. | ||
| So I think that's an important piece here. | ||
| I don't think she's denying that another site could have grasped this information and then done the doxing. | ||
| You're acknowledging that her site did not do the doxing, and she's acknowledging that it was misguided. | ||
| I've said that a thousand times, which is why this is just a witch hunt, because I've already said that, I've already said that. | ||
| And then the thing is, I'm not comfortable with you pretending that you did not put out there all you guys said a thousand times over, was that I dox people, I dox people, I dox people. | ||
| Did I not just say that if I said that you directly dox people that it was incorrect? | ||
| Did I not just say that? | ||
|
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She's conceding the point there. | |
| She's allowed to be incorrect. | ||
| I'm called a liar. | ||
| Okay, but she's conceding the point there. | ||
| She's agreeing that you did not dox anyone. | ||
| I did not dox anyone. | ||
| And do you realize how harmful that is to take a narrative of something that was well intended? | ||
| I realized very quickly, which is why Mike Cernovich came to my defense. | ||
| I met him when this was going on. | ||
| What was that? | ||
| I laughed. | ||
| I laughed. | ||
| Okay, that's just, honestly, like, it should be beneath you, but I guess it's not. | ||
| That's why I met Mike Cernovich right when this was going down, when I got attacked, and I realized that the reason why I didn't want to launch this website was because I literally realized that it was going to be a tool for SJWs to attack conservatives, and we had nothing to do with politics. | ||
| So when this girl, who she's for some reason defending, posted this original smear, she said that I was launching this website, it was going to turn it against conservatives, use their money, okay? | ||
| And like the whole reason I stopped the project was I realized it was going to be politicized and it was going to become a weapon that I never intended. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| I want to give you a chance to talk uninterrupted for a second, but do you believe her intentions there? | ||
| Because I think part of this- I already said that. | ||
| I said that, you know, no one who does bad things acknowledges themselves as bad. | ||
| Everyone has good intentions. | ||
| No one does a bad thing and really thinks before they do it, this is a bad thing to do. | ||
| But do you believe that- When she had the realization that this was the wrong thing, that that's a genuine realization. | ||
| Because obviously when she was intending it, of course, it was intended to be good. | ||
| I don't think anymore. | ||
| Probably, probably. | ||
| But I really have, like, I know we're getting stuck on the definition. | ||
| I have so many questions I want to ask because I've been blocked for so long with questions I want to ask. | ||
| So you stated on your Patreon, Tree of Logic was paid to lie. | ||
| Do you have evidence of that? | ||
| Right, no. | ||
| You don't have evidence? | ||
| No, I don't have evidence of it, but I 100% believe. | ||
| And by the way, you kept making it seem like I was saying you were paid to lie or any of the people that you hang out with. | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| You called it a funded misinformation campaign. | ||
| You can answer yourself. | ||
| No, I want you to finish answering that seriously. | ||
| You didn't because you cut me off. | ||
| Well, I'm letting you go now. | ||
| What I was saying to was that the highly suspect thing to me was Richard Spencer. | ||
| Richard Spencer for a long time, this was not my theory or my conspiracy, has been considered to be a Democratic operative. | ||
| People have thought he's working for them because he started on Wall Street, like boycotting on Wall Street as like a very liberal person. | ||
| All of a sudden, he's a leader of the white nationalist party. | ||
| And every time he appears, he seems to be attacking Donald Trump, trying to pretend that this is the brand of Donald Trump. | ||
| So this person who... | ||
| We were all liberals here. | ||
| Why couldn't he be a liberal in the past? | ||
| Why is that only afforded to us here? | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| I'm explaining to you that this isn't something that I started with Richard Spencer. | ||
| This isn't my conspiracy theories. | ||
| So if you're trying to tinfoil and try to essentially gaslight me and make it seem like I was a conspiracy theorist... Keynes, it's not gaslighting. | ||
|
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You made statements you talked about evidence for. | |
| You could provide evidence that I was doxxing people, but you said it. | ||
| My point is that, so for Richard Spencer, for this video to be online, this girl makes a crazy, insane video saying that I'm going to launch this website in three weeks and I'm using conservative dollars. | ||
| Absolutely nuts. | ||
| It's nuts. | ||
| You keep saying I think she's crazy. | ||
| I think she's out of her goddamn mind. | ||
| I'm being 100% honest with you. | ||
|
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Okay? | |
| He retweets it in a matter of 24 hours. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
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|
Really? | |
| Because of our retweet? | ||
|
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|
Really? | |
| Because of our retweet? | ||
| Because of our retweet? | ||
| because we all discussed this before, I discussed it with both of you separately beforehand, | ||
| that we know sort of the rhythms of the internet and how suddenly we've all been through this, right? | ||
| There's been times where people were endlessly and relentlessly and unfairly attacking you. | ||
| I've been through it, you're through it now, and it goes in phases. | ||
| They see someone kinda moving on up and then everyone jumps on it. | ||
| It does seem a little odd to me, but again, I don't, I always quote Carl Sagan, | ||
| extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. | ||
| So I can't, but something seems odd to me that why would Richard Spencer get involved in this? | ||
| It's odd, if you can't acknowledge that that's odd. | ||
| He retweeted something, he retweeted something. | ||
| It's just weird to be so close to someone who, okay, do you not think it's weird that somebody who has a really small following was able to get all the way to Richard Spencer in 24 hours? | ||
| You don't think that's weird? | ||
| Either way, we're not going to know what the answer, the truth is, But guys, the truth is we're not gonna know the answer to that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're not gonna know the answer to that. | |
| There's nothing that you can tell me that's gonna... We're not gonna know the answer to that. | ||
| And I'm pretty sure she's an alt-right sympathizer. | ||
| I have a problem with saying we don't know the answer to that because at the end of the day, she made a direct claim and she can't prove it. | ||
| So saying we don't know the answer to it is kind of like giving credibility to the fact that it might be a thing. | ||
| What's interesting is that you have all these notes, but you said you didn't even watch her video. | ||
| And you are cosigning, you're defending her. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm not! | |
| Candace, there's a million videos. | ||
| You're sitting across and you're defending Richard Spencer and a woman that literally sounded like she was on crack cocaine making a conspiracy about me, which you basically are cosigning. | ||
| When did I defend? | ||
| She was more upset by the fact that I said something about Tree. | ||
| Tree made a whole video about me. | ||
| You don't have one, you didn't say one thing about me. | ||
| Guys, guys, I actually, I think both of you. | ||
| I have first one to this. | ||
| But it's ridiculous. | ||
| You are a little bit of an alt-right sympathizer, right? | ||
| I'm an alt-right sympathizer. Did you just say that? | ||
| I'm asking you a question. I'm asking you a question. | ||
| I'm asking you a question. | ||
| Why are you sitting here? | ||
| Instead of saying, you know what? | ||
| Her video was way out of line and there were a lot of lies. | ||
| You're not presenting any of the lies in the campaign that you helped perpetuate, perpetuate being the operative word. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Candace. | |
| and i want to be given a really great like it's it's ridiculous to get scared | ||
|
unidentified
|
it's meet | |
| be saying that there is contradictory | ||
| you know something i would be saying that i have an answer are you when it's | ||
| loaded childish when you call their crack at that was me pointing that out | ||
| That was me saying that clearly, and this is where we can all find common ground, that we clearly have not all been the best, we've all used ad hominems. | ||
| You refusing to answer Dave Collins' questions and then saying that she's a crackhead so she's not worth responding to, that's you giving up the debate and saying she's a crackhead. | ||
| No, I genuinely think she sounded like she was on drugs. | ||
| You can genuinely believe that, but that's still an ad hominem. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| None of us are above that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You called all the YouTubers bottom feeders. | ||
| None of us are above that. | ||
| I genuinely think that's why I didn't answer. | ||
| Your answer to the question of why I didn't answer is that anybody that dedicates, especially in the sphere of what's going on in the world today, right? | ||
| We've got terrorist attacks happening, everything that's going on with the Trump presidency, the invasion that just happened over in the Middle East in terms of Russian imprints. | ||
| Dedicates five videos to talking about me and something that never launched. | ||
| Like, it's just a little weird to me. | ||
| It's like, I have better things to do than deal with bottom feeders. | ||
| I perceive them to be bottom feeders. | ||
| Well, I think we can all agree that we wish YouTubers would make better quality videos. | ||
| Yeah, just put that aside. | ||
| And I perceive these people, and this is like at no discredit to you. | ||
| I understand these YouTubers are your friends. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I didn't make a video. | |
| You were on a video stream of me talking for an hour and 15 minutes. | ||
| I went live with someone. | ||
| Candace. | ||
| I did not make a video. | ||
| Calling me a fraud, saying that I doxxed people, and saying that it was gnarly what was going to happen to children because of what I did. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, because you had the intention of putting children on there. | |
| There were no children ever. | ||
| Intention? | ||
| You guys don't have intentions. | ||
| And that's what I said. | ||
| There were no children on there ever. | ||
| And is that not what I said? | ||
| You saw seven names, period. | ||
| Is that not what I said? | ||
| That it could have been used for bad things. | ||
| That's what I said. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, hold on. | |
| Can you imagine if we lived in coulda, woulda, shoulda land all the kids? | ||
| It's just, it's like insane. | ||
| But that being said, you do acknowledge that by collecting this information, it is possible that that information could have got hacked into, et cetera, et cetera, even if that was not your intention. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| It was. | ||
| It's not even possible. | ||
| It was. | ||
| It was. | ||
| People were docked as a result of the information being accessible. | ||
| A year ago. | ||
| How come I haven't been sued? | ||
| The whole thing was a year ago. | ||
| How come I haven't been sued? | ||
| You're here talking about the whole situation a year ago. | ||
| Right, I know. | ||
| How come I haven't been sued if these people's lives were completely ruined, if it happened a year ago? | ||
| Candace, I don't know. | ||
| Ask people who didn't choose to sue you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't fucking know. | |
| I think you're both getting some points here, and it's hard to not get lost in the, this person said this on this video, and we tweeted this, and that, and that whole thing. | ||
| You are admitting that this was more than a splash page by the functional definition of what splash page is, okay. | ||
| You are also admitting that your intent, I think you're accepting that her intentions were not too dox, that her intentions were good, right? | ||
| When this thing started, or did we get that far? | ||
| Just let her answer. | ||
| Um, even though... | ||
| Yeah, it was a third party that went and used her information to dox people. | ||
| That's what happened. | ||
| Okay, and you're not denying that this, that people, well, they were doxed by not, but not because of what you did. | ||
| I can't apologize for that. | ||
| I would say, I would argue that they were doxed because of what she did, because they used her website. | ||
| They could have gotten it on Facebook. | ||
| Yes, they could have, but at the end of the day, they didn't. | ||
| They used your website as a resource. | ||
| This is crazy to me. | ||
| This, to me, doesn't make any sense. | ||
| You're saying they could have gotten it from Facebook. | ||
| What do you mean they used your website? | ||
| Hold on, this is me, and why don't you give me the- Well, the stuff is on Facebook. | ||
| Ours is just an archive of what's on Facebook. | ||
| They would have never saw those people. | ||
| They found it because it was on your website. | ||
| Okay, but they could also just go look at the comments- If you could just admit that. | ||
| No, no, no, no. | ||
| It's not about admitting. | ||
| I've already consented to you, okay? | ||
| I've already conceded to you that they could have, okay, absolutely, gone on my website, and they could have found these people. | ||
| They did, not could have. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They did. | |
| They did. | ||
| But they also could go on Facebook and do that every single day. | ||
| So you're making it seem like we created some special thing that they couldn't have accessed. | ||
| People saying mean things and all to figure out who their names were. | ||
| The particular people that were doxxed were on your website because of the fact that they were on your website. | ||
| Okay, but that was from Facebook. | ||
| It was an archive. | ||
| What was on Facebook? | ||
| Do you understand what I'm saying? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hold on, guys. | |
| We're running in circles here. | ||
| This doesn't make sense. | ||
| I have a Facebook account, so that means... Yes, I got it from Facebook. | ||
| Of course I have a Facebook account. | ||
| I got it from Facebook. | ||
| I know you got it from Facebook. | ||
| Facebook is still alive. | ||
| And the doxxers got it from your website. | ||
| And the doxxers got it from your website. | ||
| As far as I can tell, what she's saying there is true, but you are acknowledging, A, that wasn't the intention, and that you were misguided. | ||
| I mean, it seems to me that this whole thing- I didn't understand internet culture when I created this at all. | ||
| I wasn't on Twitter. | ||
| I didn't understand that there was this culture war going on. | ||
| As I said, and I know you chuckled, when I met Mike Cernovich, he was incredibly intelligent, so I have nothing bad to say about him. | ||
| He perceived that this was a girl that was falling down the rabbit hole, had no idea how something that she made would have been abused, and that was the end of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I put it to bed immediately. | |
| Do you accept her intentions there? | ||
| Let's just try not to get into every tweet. | ||
| I keep saying that, yes. | ||
| Except that the fact that she probably didn't think it was this horrible thing, and it just ended up that way. | ||
| So one of the things that's confusing me, and I'll let you go first on this one. | ||
| So one of the things that's confusing me a little bit is that nobody seemed to care about this whole thing for about a year. | ||
| Very interesting. | ||
| Then your profile kind of got built up a little bit, and then literally within a week of you doing this show, suddenly everybody was saying this. | ||
| And I'm a little confused. | ||
| Were people being doxed? | ||
| Before that, do we know when those people grabbed the list and started doxing? | ||
| Yeah, that was about a year ago, all those doxings I showed you on the phone. | ||
| But the reason that happened was because about a year ago when the actual website was, | ||
| she was working to make it come to fruition, there was YouTubers Chris Ragan and one other person, | ||
| one other big person, but made videos about the situation, criticizing the website, criticizing her motives. | ||
| And she kind of, I guess, wasn't on the radar for about a year until after that. | ||
| And she came back and she was red, blue, black, new persona, and it took a few months for people | ||
| to realize, oh, that was that person we were all talking about a year ago. | ||
| That's what happened. | ||
| So I think the idea that this is all like some grand conspiracy theory | ||
| and that Tree of Logic was paid, Richard Spencer was paid. | ||
| It doesn't make any sense. | ||
| This is relevant now because these are bottom-feeding YouTubers. | ||
| I saw someone rising up quickly. | ||
| This is envy dressed up as righteousness, period. | ||
| This doesn't even make sense. | ||
| Oh, later, it took them a while to click. | ||
| I talked about it extensively. | ||
| Every interview I do, I talk about gamer gay. | ||
| I talk about the red pill. | ||
| I talk about social autopsy. | ||
| So this is all BS. | ||
| As I said, this is envy dressed up as righteousness, OK? | ||
| It took a full year later. | ||
| It never launched. | ||
| All of a sudden, you're digging into people's past. | ||
| And you didn't have the decency. | ||
| I would have had a lot of respect for you, Blair, if you reached out. | ||
| We have someone in common. | ||
| No, I did. | ||
| I directly tweeted you. | ||
| I said, do you want to do a live stream and talk about it? | ||
| And you blocked me. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| Maybe you didn't see it. | ||
| After you called me trash, I never saw a tweet from you that said you wanted to do a live stream. | ||
| Okay, well, I did. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I did. | |
| But you can't see tweets if you block someone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You can't see tweets if you block someone. | |
| Right, right. | ||
| And we can all miss tweets. | ||
| But you can't do that after you call somebody trash. | ||
| My point is that they all jumped on, and it was a dogpiling, okay? | ||
| If 11 YouTubers are on the same live stream, that's a dogpile. | ||
| You can't admit that's a dog pile? | ||
| Eleven YouTubers talking about one YouTuber? | ||
| I think both of you guys are above, sort of, just the general... I'm above. | ||
| I would have never dropped, I would have never jumped on, cause I genuinely, that's not the intellectual circle I'm trying to run. | ||
| I would never, ever, ever have jumped onto a live stream with eleven YouTubers talking about you, ever. | ||
| There was two when I was on, there was two. | ||
| Pause for a second. | ||
| Just to clarify one thing. | ||
| One person did check on the amount of minutes that Blair was on the live stream. | ||
| It was approximately 40 minutes. | ||
| She joined at about 30 and left around 110. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's fine, but those aren't... I don't think those are the things that... 40 minutes is a long time, is what they're talking about. | ||
| It's certainly not an hour and a half. | ||
| You said about an hour and a half. | ||
| I said an hour and 15 minutes. | ||
| Okay, and I said about 20 minutes, so we're both wrong about that. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| And I don't think those are the things that are particularly important. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| Honestly, I have to say this. | ||
| I wanted to say this the entire time. | ||
| Honestly, Candace, you know, I'm not here to hold you to your past. | ||
| We all have a past. | ||
| We all were different. | ||
| We're all different places politically a year ago. | ||
| I'm sure we all were. | ||
| It's not about holding to your past. | ||
| Everyone has one. | ||
| It's about, honestly, the entire thing. | ||
| Again, out of all those YouTubers, and please don't interrupt me, out of all those YouTubers, I didn't make a video. | ||
| Yes, I was live for a little while talking to people. | ||
| I did not make a video. | ||
| If something, if I'm a YouTuber, if I don't make a video, it's really not that important for me to make a video. | ||
| That's the first thing. | ||
| So I was never, like, that invested in this, which is why I was kind of confused when she shows me the debate when there's been a million YouTubers who have made, like I said, videos and have, like, even if the facts are wrong, have laid out, like, facts, this is why we disagree with Candace, whatever. | ||
| So, again, I guess I would ask, like, why you picked me? | ||
| Okay, I don't want this to go too personal, but I think that's a fair question. | ||
| That's a fair question. | ||
| So there's two reasons. | ||
| A, I thought that the irony, the dramatic irony of the situation was irresistible. | ||
| Like, I'm sitting across from a trans person who would like to be called she, and we've accepted your transition from male to female and your gender. | ||
| What does that have to do with anything? | ||
| Give her a second chance. | ||
| Sitting across from you, okay, who could not accept my transition from liberal to conservative, that is like irresistibly ironic, A. B, because I felt that the rest of those people were bottom feeders looking for hits, okay? | ||
| And you have an audience, so if anything, for you to show up today, you have everything to lose, nothing to gain. | ||
| You're not going to gain anything off of me. | ||
| These other people who are at the bottom demanding that I go on their shows, look how many hits, look at their YouTube pages, it's like, Averaging 4,000 views, 4,000 views, and all of a sudden they're at 100,000 views. | ||
| I knew exactly what it was about. | ||
| Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I really don't think this was ever about you guys being concerned about doxxing, because the information was right there. | ||
| As you said, my website never doxxed a single person. | ||
| I think this was always about YouTubers seeing someone rise. | ||
| Even in the stream, which you were there with that guy, he says, yeah, no, I don't even believe. | ||
| How did she get to this many subscribers? | ||
| They're even talking about the way I look, all of these things. | ||
| It was never about doxxing people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
was honestly to me jealousy right i never saw either of those things by the way | |
| just because i've been you know what i think i never said anything about your | ||
|
unidentified
|
looks i never said no no i don't think you said you say i didn't say that i'm | |
| clearing up people watching you were talking to the person that was saying | ||
| this i never thought that i'm cleaning that up but so honestly my whole thing | ||
| with this has just been finding honestly amusement in the amount of lives you | ||
| told as a result of people calling you out That's been it. | ||
| How did I lie? | ||
| You mentioned, but you've accepted already that I was told something different. | ||
| I'll tell you how you lied. | ||
| You lied, first of all, and said that it was Richard Spencer who made a video. | ||
| I said perpetuated. | ||
| You said made. | ||
| I said perpetuated. | ||
| People can look at the tweet. | ||
| It's not a tweet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
She actually said it in a video. | |
| If it was your Facebook video, you might have posted it on Facebook. | ||
| But if people can't find it there Andy Worshaw did a response to it. You said verbatim. He made a video | ||
| So he didn't do that. That's that's that's one line Okay, the other lie and you already said you can't provide | ||
| evidence is that tree of logic was paid by the by 100% think that | ||
| She's paid there was no way by the way Do you not think it's a little ironic as you're sitting | ||
| here telling me that I was shady for blocking people that this girl | ||
| Jumps up and makes a video about me and then blocks me You guys, all of them have dogpiles. | ||
| This is why it's about envy. | ||
| This is why I know this is about envy. | ||
| They dogpiled on me, okay, for blocking them. | ||
| Meanwhile, the person that started all of this blocks me. | ||
| So this is the part of it, look, this is the part of it that, guys, I wouldn't have done this if I didn't think you guys were above this, so I think we gotta figure out a way to get out of the weeds on that, because, look, we can argue about whether it's right to block people, we can argue about whether they just want clicks off you, which... They do! | ||
| They want clicks! | ||
| I mean, that's what it is! | ||
| They're gonna all hop on a street tonight and go over every... She really tried hard to avoid answering this question that I asked her. | ||
| Who paid Tree of Logic? | ||
| Who paid Richard Spencer to retweet something? | ||
| If I say that I think something is paid, that is at my discretion. | ||
| I cannot present to you a fact and you can't present to me not a fact. | ||
| You made the claim. | ||
| I'm speculating and you're saying it's not true. | ||
| You saying it's not true could be a lie. | ||
| I didn't say it wasn't true. | ||
| You can't prove it's not true and I can't prove it's true. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You made the claim. | |
| Well, I think you're admitting you speculated, so it's on. | ||
| Yes, it's very weird that Richard Spencer did this so early and that this person made this video, which is a complete lie, saying that, and by the way, you're not talking about any of the lies she told in that video. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's amazing to me. | |
| Candace, Candace, Candace. | ||
| You're so hellbent on the truth and saying I'm a liar, but you're not talking about any of the lies she told. | ||
| Candace, Candace, first of all. | ||
| Do you think I'm coming out with a documentary in three weeks? | ||
| First of all, Candace, no. | ||
| First of all, Candace, it is completely on you if you make a claim about someone, especially something that someone was paid under the table to make a video about you. | ||
| It is completely on you to provide evidence for that claim. | ||
| Okay, I think that's fair. | ||
| You are admitting you are speculating on this. | ||
| I'm speculating. | ||
| You don't have evidence of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Okay, I think that's a fair point. | ||
| I think she's admitting she's speculating on it. | ||
| So the burden of proof is on you. | ||
| It's not on her to prove it the other way. | ||
| I think that's fair. | ||
| I think we're basically all agreeing on that. | ||
| Yeah, so far it's like you called her a crackhead. | ||
| You've said that she was paid by someone. | ||
| These are just lies. | ||
| And you can say that your opinion... But she has told about why... If these YouTubers are really the gatekeepers of truth, why aren't they assessing the lies that this woman told? | ||
| She said I was missing a sight in three weeks. | ||
| She said she doesn't think that's true. | ||
| She spent time, 40 minutes to be precise, talking about all of my untruths. | ||
| Cherry picking every single thing that I have seen about the person. | ||
| You're focusing on this one person's video. | ||
| You're defending her. | ||
| You're up here defending her. | ||
| Stop screaming. | ||
| We cannot not talk about it. | ||
| All you're going to do is sit here. | ||
| Just stop screaming. | ||
| If all you're going to do is sit here and defend this person, then we're going to talk about the fact that this person has told lie after lie after lie after lie after lie, but you don't care about any of those lies. | ||
| You're going to focus on me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Why? | |
| Because I'm new. | ||
| Because I'm new. | ||
| Yeah, this is all Envyju. | ||
| This is YouTube high school drama. | ||
| Candace, it's very easy to say, Oh, it's because they're jealous of you. | ||
| When in reality, it's much less about Tree of Logic and what she did or did not say. | ||
| I didn't watch the full video. | ||
| I'm sure she did say things that are incorrect. | ||
| That doesn't mean some of it wasn't correct. | ||
| It's much more about the fact that you're willing to tell lies about people in the wake of this happening. | ||
| You saying that she was paid... Do you realize the irony here? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wait, we gotta pause. | |
| We gotta pause. | ||
| One second. | ||
| Candace, she could have lied and you could have lied too. | ||
| Both of you guys got to be liars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Both of you guys said... The fact that you said that she was paid by someone... I didn't make a video about her trying to take down... Just let her finish. | |
| No, you just posted to your Patreon supporters that she was paid. | ||
| To make a video about you. | ||
| That's a lie. | ||
| It's a lie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Period. | |
| It's a lie. | ||
| to always point out in videos on streams, I should say, on a stream, on a phone call, | ||
| via right now sitting down, your focus has been me. | ||
| Why aren't you focusing on her? | ||
| Because you're sitting across from me, Candace. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Initially, when you hopped and you said she doxxed people, when you hopped and you jumped | ||
| on this phone and called me a liar, why aren't you talking about her life? | ||
| Candace, okay, let's go back to the livestream. | ||
| In the livestream, if you watched it, you might have seen me say, I don't know Tree of Logic, I don't know if she likes my content, because I had never actually watched her prior to that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But I'm asking you a question. | |
| Why was it about me? | ||
| If you're saying that all you care about is getting to the truth, Candace, you're the talk of the talk because of a video that the liar made. | ||
| Guys, guys, you gotta pause, pause, pause. | ||
| Guys, pause. | ||
| All right, listen. | ||
| We could do this all day. | ||
| I mean, literally, we could be here for the next 20 hours doing this, right? | ||
| So I think we actually have made a little bit of headway here, believe it or not, because I think we've acknowledged that you did not, that when you realize the error of your mistake, I think you are conceding That being said, bad things were done with the information. | ||
| You're saying you had no control of that information, and I think you feel bad that that actually did happen, but this is the old you. | ||
| I mean, you put that in her mouth, but she never said that. | ||
| What? | ||
| She never said she felt bad about it. | ||
| You're giving me what you are. | ||
| Okay, so I don't want to put words in your mouth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do you feel bad that If a year ago, people's were addresses. | |
| You just said it was a year ago. | ||
| You just said it was a year ago. | ||
| You're trying to mitigate, make it sound like it was a year ago. | ||
| Well, I think partly what I'm really trying not to pay attention to the nonsense on Twitter, | ||
| but I think what certain people were, like I saw a certain level of anger with you | ||
| that you weren't, that you showed no remorse, that even if it wasn't your intention to do this | ||
| and you were misguided, that you showed no remorse. | ||
| I showed no remorse because A, and we go back because she's already conceded the point so I'm not trying to be a dead horse here, she was telling people that I doxxed people and that was a lie. | ||
| So I showed no remorse because they were accusing me of being a doxxer and that is a very strong word, okay? | ||
| And the source of that lie, as we've already talked about, was not you, okay, but was a video that, aside from saying I doxxed people, said that I was like, An undercover liberal that was using people for their money. | ||
| Those are really nasty lies. | ||
| They're nasty lies. | ||
| And rather than try to, like, build a bridge, which I recommend, by the way, any YouTubers that want hits, like, I would have gone on and spoken about this if anybody had approached, like, an individual as opposed to, like, trashing me and then saying, defend yourself. | ||
| I didn't know he made a video about me. | ||
| I don't think he did. | ||
| But he definitely reached out to you, Andy Worsky. | ||
| Yeah, he did, but he didn't make a video. | ||
| Honestly, everyone I think except for some black guy reached out to you and asked you | ||
| if you wanted to watch it. | ||
| Andy Worsky never, he made videos about me and then basically said, come on a live stream. | ||
| Not doing that. | ||
| That's bottom feeding mentality. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And again, but we're pausing that, guys. | |
| I mean, no one owes you, like, has anyone? | ||
| Like, if you write nasty things about someone and then expect them to defend themselves, | ||
| That's not right. | ||
| I see plenty of people that make bad videos about me and I could spend the rest of my life defending myself. | ||
| Yeah, it's crazy. | ||
| If it's not true, it's not true. | ||
| I didn't dox anybody. | ||
| So I showed no remorse because you made an accusation that wasn't true. | ||
| And I understand what you're saying about the potential, but if you guys have always said, do you understand the potential? | ||
| I've said that extensively in every single interview that it was misguided. | ||
| I can't stress that enough. | ||
| It's the reason why I became Red Pill. | ||
| I realized the evils of the internet and what people were doing to conservatives. | ||
| Okay, do you accept that that basic premise is true? | ||
| I know you've conceded that, but I've seen a lot of people say, well now she's faking this whole conservative thing. | ||
| She said that! | ||
| I had you on my show and we spent about eight hours together after and I don't feel that and if you're doing it, as I said to you right before we started, you're doing a freaking hell of a job because I think I'm a pretty good judge of character. | ||
| Because, again, we've all had evolutions, so... And why can't you accept mine? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, I did. | ||
| Yeah, I did. | ||
| So let her, let her... It's just the irony of, you know, we sit up and we do these response videos to liberals and social justice warriors, and a lot of them haven't done anything nearly as bad as creating a website that attaches people's mean words to their employers and their schools. | ||
| So, for that reason, I was never really prone or excited about giving you so much slack. | ||
| that I would believe that you were genuine. | ||
| I was speculating like this was just a year ago and now she's up here doing complete 180. | ||
| It's possible but it was definitely, you know, a speculation. | ||
| And again, again, I'm not here to hold you to your past. | ||
| It's simply about the lies you've told, like, in the past month, defending yourself, that I'm more interested in. | ||
| Directly saying- But that's- but that's- that's complete- that is- you're- to be honest, you're lying right now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Lying about what? | |
| Because you said- because your exact words were that you didn't like me from the first time you saw me. | ||
| This is before social- No, I- no, I didn't. | ||
| I don't think I said I didn't like you. | ||
| This is your exact words? | ||
| I definitely said- hold on. | ||
| I'll just tell you what I said. | ||
| It's fine. | ||
| If it's wrong, you can tell me if it's wrong. | ||
| I definitely said that I think I saw one of your videos pop up on Facebook, like, a few months before this entire thing happened. | ||
| And that I read it as, like, someone reading a script and I didn't particularly like you. | ||
| Yeah, you said you perceived me to be a fraud instantly, so for you to say that this is, like, don't make, so we should not make this about, so you had issues with me before this ever even came out. | ||
| Okay, but I don't think, I don't think, okay, guys, but I don't think anyone, I don't think anyone watching this is watching, though, and the point of this whole thing is, is that Blair doesn't like Candace or Candace doesn't like Blair. | ||
| Yeah, but the thing is, like, it's, it's, to me, it's very high school nasty when someone says, I just saw you, I didn't like you. | ||
| To me, it seems, and I'm gonna be honest, it seems like these, They're very high school. | ||
| These YouTubers are very high school and they see a new person and it's about taking someone down. | ||
| If you're genuinely a person that cares about this movement that we're all a part of, definitely different sides of the spectrum. | ||
| I don't think that I could ever do some of the things that you did in terms of talking about people for no reason. | ||
| I've never even met. | ||
| Um, but if that's generally what your interest was, and you're interested in helping, why not build bridges? | ||
| Like, why not, like, reach out and say, Dave, like, respect people. | ||
| Dave, as soon as these rumors came out, reach out to me. | ||
| Paul Joseph Watson, who you hammered on this stream. | ||
| You talked so much trash about Infowars and those people. | ||
| That's a whole audience of people that you're just, if you're a part, about this movement, why are you talking about people like they're absolute morons? | ||
| Candace, Candace, Candace. | ||
| Let her answer, let her answer. | ||
| Candace. | ||
| Why are you calling them dumbasses? | ||
| It's not about taking you down. | ||
| The reason I criticized Paul Joseph Watson was because initially he came out with a response saying that your website was from four years ago and it just wasn't. | ||
| But have some respect. | ||
| You know him. | ||
| He gave you a platform. | ||
| All you had to do, if I saw something about Dave that I wasn't sure if it was, like the way that Dave reached out to me, the way that Paul reached out to me, the way that these people reached out and asked a question first, that's just being respectful. | ||
| We're all a part of the same movement. | ||
| Why are you trying to break it off by like talking trash about Paul Joseph Watson, talking trash about cancer? | ||
| You're very like tribalistic and you definitely bank on this whole like group think thing. | ||
| You've stated yourself that when we hear something about one of our own, it's very important | ||
| to never become skeptics and to double down. | ||
| That to me is a very toxic- When did I say double down? | ||
| You said in your Facebook video, people can go back. | ||
| You said it's important to double down, it's important to not become skeptics. | ||
| You said that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh yeah, double down on your, what I meant by that, and let me clarify, is that one of | ||
| the most beautiful things about this is that, that I, what I enjoy about this conservative | ||
| movement is that it's a human to human experience again. | ||
| It's not believing salacious headlines and being like, wait a second, let me trust my gut. | ||
| I know I met this person, like you said. | ||
| I said, Candace is definitely not a fake conservative, even though this is what people are trying to tell me. | ||
| I didn't perceive that. | ||
| That was cool. | ||
| I'm not saying that, by the way, you do your research and you find out that this person is a fraud, that you don't go hard, but grant the courtesy of respect, but before you try to break off this movement and Basically gaslight people that watch. | ||
| This is a movement. | ||
| Do you not feel like you're a part of a movement? | ||
| You think by me criticizing you, I do, but you think by me criticizing you I'm breaking off a movement. | ||
| You criticize Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, Infowars, me. | ||
| Candace, I'll criticize whoever I want. | ||
| That's fine, but that's what I'm saying. | ||
| Do you not think that there's nastiness in that? | ||
| I think there would be no such thing as journalistic integrity if everyone in this world had this mentality of, this person supports the same president as me, this person has similar ideas to me, I will never criticize them, I will never become a skeptic, and I will double down for them. | ||
| Research! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Research! | |
| Reach out to people! | ||
| That's what I'm saying to you! | ||
| I had no issues, but you didn't reach out. | ||
| You're actually both agreeing on this, but guys, guys, guys. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You didn't reach out, you didn't say anything, you just... Guys, Candace, I reached out, you walked me. | |
| You reached out after you called me trash and said I doxxed people. | ||
| Candace. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You already reprinted the salacious rumors, which was a lie. | |
| Guys, this is the low-level part of this that gets us nowhere, right? | ||
| It gets us nowhere. | ||
| I'm trying to say something positive. | ||
| I'm saying that I think that you could have handled yourself better if you genuinely thought, okay, that this person was a fraud. | ||
| And listen, where we go from here doesn't really matter because I think that you and I are just fundamentally different people and I have the courage and respect, but if somebody once gave me a platform and I perceived them to be a good person, before I go on a podcast with a bunch of people in their basement talking. | ||
| What if I never conceived you as a good person? | ||
| What if I didn't do that? | ||
| I'm not talking about me. | ||
| I never met you. | ||
| I'm talking about you jumping on, talking about InfoWars, who gave you a platform, jumping on a podcast, talking about Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones. | ||
| I thought it made you a really crappy person. | ||
| So because- It was a crappy person. | ||
| So because I did a live stream with Paul Joseph Watson, that means I can never criticize him. | ||
| It's not about criticizing. | ||
| It's the way you did it. | ||
| If you thought that he wrote something that was untrue, just reach out and say, you could have been on a podcast saying, actually, I reached out to him and he told me this. | ||
| You could have just used facts, but instead you were- Candace. | ||
| You were acting like a 13-year-old boy. | ||
| Candace, what happened was- It's drama. | ||
| It's drama, dude. | ||
| It's drama. | ||
| What happened was public. | ||
| I read his tweets. | ||
| I didn't feel like I had to reach out to him to get him to clarify. | ||
| He spent the entire Twitter feed trying to clarify what he said. | ||
| I understood exactly what he was saying. | ||
| I went on the live stream. | ||
| I criticized him. | ||
| I don't owe him not criticizing me. | ||
| It's not owing. | ||
| Get the facts. | ||
| Get the facts. | ||
| You're saying it's disrespectful for me to ever talk trash about- No, I'm saying it's harmful to the movement. | ||
| Guys, guys, guys. | ||
| I'm trying to be respectful of both of you, but we gotta pull this into something that makes a little sense here. | ||
| Can I just say one thing? | ||
| Yes, you can say one thing and then I gotta get this into some streamline sense. | ||
| I don't owe you, Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, any amount of extra slack, any amount of an unwillingness to criticize them, because I've done a livestream with one of them before. | ||
| Research isn't extra slack, it's what you should do to consider yourself a journalist. | ||
| Candace! | ||
| Research, not extra slack. | ||
| When did I ever call myself a journalist? | ||
| Research, not extra slack. | ||
| Do you think he was giving me extra slack when he asked me whether Doc's rumors were true? | ||
| That's not extra slack. | ||
| Candace, Candace. | ||
| It's being intelligent, actually. | ||
| Candace, Paul Joseph actually did do the research. | ||
| Paul Joseph Watson said your website was from four years ago. | ||
| And you also lied and said I was working for him, but there was another lie you told. | ||
| You said, I heard that she's working for him. | ||
| How was that a lie? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's a lie. | |
| How was that a lie? | ||
| I said I heard that you were. | ||
| That's what, that's, I said I heard. | ||
| Oh, so you can speculate, but I can't just so we're clear. | ||
| Okay, okay, okay. | ||
| Alright, ladies, ladies, ladies. | ||
| One sec, please, please, please. | ||
| Yeah, this is the last one and then I'm taking over here. | ||
| That is a complete speculation, saying, I heard she's working for him, of course that's optimal. | ||
| And you said, and that's why, Paul, you lied on him, you lied on me, you grunt when you hear my coverage. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How is that a lie? | |
| What movement are you a part of? | ||
| How is that a lie? | ||
| What movement are you a part of? | ||
| I'm curious, what movement are you a part of? | ||
| I want to hear it. | ||
| What movement are you a part of? | ||
| Let me say what I'm saying. | ||
| I said, I heard she's working for Infowars, so it makes sense that Paul is defending her. | ||
| Does that not make sense? | ||
| That's a speculation. | ||
| What you did, Tree of Logic, saying she was paid, was a direct claim that was not a speculation. | ||
| There's a difference. | ||
| Okay, but when you're... There's a difference. | ||
| Okay, when you're on... So for you to say that you can speculate and I can't, that's a difference. | ||
| Now can you answer my second question? | ||
| Okay, I'm gonna say you both speculated. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Pause, pause, guys, pause, pause, pause, please, please. | |
| Okay, you both speculated in different ways. | ||
| No one's perfect here, and I think you did make a good point earlier that we've all acted in ways online, we don't all act with all the consistency that we all say we want to and all those things, and okay. | ||
| None of the, all the drama stuff is where we're getting lost. | ||
| I think if we try to get out of this in any kind of way that makes some sense, If you basically believe her intentions and her, you believe her, okay, we got the intentions part, but the political evolution, do you think her political evolution, that's, a lot of people seem to be hung up on that. | ||
| Do you believe that to be genuine? | ||
| I don't know, my initial judgment based on her behavior and the things she was saying was that there was probably some amount of like, you know, reading off the script and saying things that people want to hear. | ||
| To me, that's not important. | ||
| Okay, and I'm sure people have said that about you, and I'm sure they've said it about me, so... Absolutely, and I'm free to say that. | ||
| My problem is when you make direct claims about people being paid to make videos... Okay, so we can't go back to that. | ||
| Guys, we can't go back to that. | ||
| You're saying I'm defending it, when in reality it's... You are. | ||
| No, it's more about you. | ||
| Do a video on her and her lies. | ||
| No, I didn't care enough to do a video on you about what I do on Tree of Logic. | ||
| It's not about her. | ||
| It's about your statements and the way that you've acted in reacting to everyone. | ||
| Calling you out. It's that you told a million lies your lies that this was a deep web | ||
| I'm serious. You've told okay saying that it was a deep web conspiracy when in reality, you know, you even admit it | ||
| I know it's a deep web conspiracy You said you said a deep web conspiracy was what this was | ||
| when in reality you've actually admitted during this interview that it originated deep | ||
| Web I consider I consider Kiwi farms pretty deep web. I mean | ||
| Hold on, hold on, hold on. | ||
| But you- Nobody knows what I'm talking about. | ||
| Hold on, hold on. | ||
| First of all, it's not Deep Web. | ||
| Second of all, you admitted in the stream that this whole thing originated from Tree of Logic. | ||
| So is YouTube the Deep Web? | ||
| Do you not realize the irony of you defending the person that originally started these lies? | ||
| You're focused on me defending her? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm focused on- But it's important because you're calling me- I'm focusing on your words, not her. | |
| You're trying to pretend that you're righteous. | ||
| I'm focusing on your words, not her. | ||
| And that everything you did to me was an act of righteousness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I'm not. | |
| When you're acknowledging that where you got your information was fundamentally a lie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Guys, pause, pause. | |
| Pause, pause, pause. | ||
| Tree, I'm focusing on your words. | ||
| My name is not Tree. | ||
| I mean, sorry. | ||
| I'm focusing on your words. | ||
| I'm not focusing on her. | ||
| It's the fact that you said it's a deep web conspiracy. | ||
| However, you also stated that it originated from her. | ||
| YouTube is not the deep web. | ||
| So, to me, it's... Okay. | ||
| To me, more than anything, I've just found... But you're saying people were doxxed on Kiwi Farms. | ||
| That's the deep web. | ||
| Who was looking at Kiwi Farms for information on people? | ||
| Candace, we both agreed that it originated, this entire controversy of people calling you out, originated from Tree of Logic, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| She was the first video. | ||
| But saying that I doxxed people, you said you got that from Kiwi Farms, which is the deep web. | ||
| No, Candace. | ||
| No. | ||
| Candace, you stated that this entire controversy, people calling you out, was a deep web conspiracy. | ||
| That's what you said in your Facebook video. | ||
| People can go back to it. | ||
| That's fine. | ||
| However, you're sitting across from me saying that it originated from Tree of Logic, who is a YouTuber. | ||
| YouTube is not the deep web. | ||
| So my point about that is, I've found humor in the amount of deflections that she's done, trying to make it seem like it's so crazy that it's a deep web conspiracy, and people were paid, and it's this huge conspiracy against her, because that makes people less likely to believe it. | ||
| You've intentionally done that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
are you guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys | |
| guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys | ||
| guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys | ||
| guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys | ||
| I get it. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| We're raw here. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| But you gotta do it. | ||
| Okay, we can either do two, there's two things happening here. | ||
| One is the facts of what happened that caused this whole thing to happen, right? | ||
| One are the facts. | ||
| And then one is everything else of all the behavior that everyone has done and whether you speculated or you misspoke on this or whatever. | ||
| But I don't think, I actually don't think that if there's any adults listening to this and not just the people that want us to hate each other, I don't think they care about any of that stuff. | ||
| That's my particular opinion. | ||
| I'll let you respond to that and then just pause for a second. | ||
| Do you think that's fair? | ||
| I just think there's two things going on here. | ||
| There's the fact of what Candace is and what she has done, and if we can get to a truth about what social autopsy was. | ||
| And then there's just the rest of it. | ||
| As you said, and I give you credit for sitting here, because you weren't one of the people that felt that this was something that you had to make videos and all that. | ||
| So you're sort of here by proxy in an odd way, but you had the desire to do it. | ||
| I mean, not the desire. | ||
| I just knew that if I had said, like, I don't really care about this, it would be Candace tweeting that I ran. | ||
| I knew that would happen, so I didn't do that. | ||
| But I will say, again, what I've cared the most about, and when I say care, it's like I found humor in it. | ||
| So I haven't cared that much. | ||
| It's been me looking at the way that you've lied and you've deflected and the things that you've completely made up out of thin air that has been humorous to me that I've talked about. | ||
| That's the case. | ||
|
unidentified
|
She lied. | |
| She's already lied. | ||
| The biggest part of this piece, the biggest thing to me, and you talk about the biggest thing to you, the biggest thing to me is that the entire thing was predicated on a lie which you helped perpetuate to 130,000 people that I dox people. | ||
| You've already conceded the point that I don't dox people. | ||
| You're saying that what you made... | ||
| was used to dox people on a website that you have nothing to do with, okay? | ||
| That was my thing that pissed me the most off, and you're already making that's not true. | ||
| So you're more concerned with how I responded to the lie. | ||
| I'm talking about the initial- That was a lie, but you told lies about me too. | ||
| Yeah, but you completely lied by saying I dox people. | ||
| Guys, that's why I'm trying to separate. | ||
| That's why I'm trying to separate. | ||
| That's why I'm trying to separate two things here. | ||
| I thought I did about five times during this interview. | ||
| You did, but what I'm saying is that you keep pretending that this is about me lying, | ||
| but the biggest lie, the reason we're here, right, is because there was a claim that caught fire | ||
| that I personally dox people, and that affects my integrity, okay? | ||
| People were talking about that, thinking that that was actually valid. | ||
| People were tweeting- At the sound of light to you, people that I work with, and everyone reached out, because again, those people are more professionally, they have a better professional reputation than some of these bottom-feeing YouTubers, to get to the bottom of it. | ||
| And I've had to clarify over and over again that I never dox anybody. | ||
| So it's a big deal that you can just backtrack now and say, okay, that part was a lie, but what's more interesting is how you responded. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| The only point I want to drive home is I have never doxed a person in my entire life, and I have said that, and I'm standing by that, and I'm happy that you conceded that point. | ||
| And I'll say this. | ||
| I apologize for using the word splash page. | ||
| You are correct. | ||
| You are 100% correct about that. | ||
| But I googled that after I stated that, and I literally showed them the email where someone told me that a year ago. | ||
| I literally was repeating what was told to me. | ||
| It was never an intention to lie. | ||
| Question about that then. | ||
| Why did you wait until the Rubin Report, weeks after all of this, to say that you made a mistake saying it was Splash Bay? | ||
| Okay, because after I said it, you can't... Come on, the internet. | ||
| After you say something, you guys are already jumped on. | ||
| Everyone's saying, liar, liar, liar, Splash Bay, Splash Bay. | ||
| It's the only way that I could have actually I clarified that with some integrity was to forward the emails. | ||
| If I said, oh, here's a screenshot of the email, they would have said it was doctored. | ||
| The conspiracies were getting crazier and crazier and crazier, and I understand that you were a part of that. | ||
| So what I understand, you didn't, when you were on my show, you didn't realize when you said the splash, you hadn't even realized that, right? | ||
| I didn't know. | ||
| No, I had no idea. | ||
| I said something, and I tweeted it after because I still thought, I perceived it to be true. | ||
| It was told me by a web developer who went to school for web design, and I think that he was referring to, it was a splash of the technologies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes! | |
| but like it was something that quite a lot of how can you blame people for | ||
| thinking it was a lie when you wait week i didn't believe that i didn't blame | ||
| them i'd say you get i answered your question i didn't blame them i said it | ||
| wasn't a lie and i waited to clear clarify it and i i i answered your question so you understand people | ||
| can perceive that as a lie when yes when yes okay okay | ||
| okay that's fine I understand. | ||
| Like I said, a lot of this stuff is semantics. | ||
| I genuinely thought a totally different word meant something else because it's what was told to me, and he saw the emails. | ||
| So when I'm getting called a liar and then being triple attacked, and it's a dog, and it's a pylon, the only way that I can come forward with the truth is on my own terms, and I'm going to show him the emails. | ||
| I never lied. | ||
| But did you really think Like, when you said, when you, as you said, the web developer said it first, but you repeated it saying it was a non-functioning splash page, did you really think the whole website was non-functioning? | ||
| You really thought that? | ||
| I 110%, this is like, it's like one email. | ||
| We built something, okay? | ||
| There's probably a hundred emails. | ||
| He was like, phase one, splash page, people will be able to like, you know, include some things, whatever, whatever, but we haven't built technology where you could actually pull it from Facebook. | ||
| So what we were trying to build was for Facebook to be able to talk to social autopsies so nobody had to film in these. | ||
| Yeah, it was an archive. | ||
| So when he said it was a splash, you know, it's a splash, you haven't built it, you don't have the money to build the entire thing out, I thought that was true. | ||
| I held that as a truth in my head for a full year. | ||
| For 18 months. | ||
| It's not like this was new and I was like, oh, what does this mean? | ||
| He emailed that to me in February of 2016. | ||
| So I just thought it was true. | ||
| I never questioned it because he's a web developer. | ||
| Would you question a web developer if they said this is what we're doing? | ||
| I personally would have probably known that if someone called it a non-functioning... Great for you! | ||
| You're conceding a little naivete perhaps on your part or just not understanding phrases, which you probably would understand better. | ||
| Before I forget, because this is a little bit off of the direct topic, I do want to address a lie Kenneth told me about me about maybe two or three days ago on Twitter. | ||
| you said that I made an autistic girl cry on YouTube, that I wasn't allowed to show you I made an autistic girl | ||
| cry. | ||
| That girl has come out and said that she's not autistic. | ||
| Right, so I love this because how does it feel when people take hearsay and perpetuate it as the truth? | ||
| You were so angry that I did that. | ||
| I literally did this as an experiment because I knew you were going to bring it up, okay? | ||
| You were so, you were so angry. | ||
| No, no, no, I was told she was autistic. | ||
| No, no, no, I was told she was autistic by three. | ||
| A bunch of YouTubers have a strong dislike for you and your little gang of YouTubers that take people out. | ||
| Like, that's what you guys do. | ||
| You talk about people you get, and you're in the same group. | ||
| What about doing your research that you slammed me for earlier? | ||
| In the same group of people. | ||
| So, this is what was being told to me. | ||
| I'm not gonna call anybody out. | ||
| Like, I'm not gonna, I'll fall on the sword or whatever. | ||
| It was told to me. | ||
| But what about doing your research? | ||
| It was told to me, okay, by about seven YouTubers. | ||
| And it is pretty terrible. | ||
| Whether the person is autistic, she's out with depression and anxiety. | ||
| That the same people that did all of these videos on me did a pile-on for a girl that was depressed and anxious. | ||
|
unidentified
|
A pile-on. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Let me clarify what this was. | ||
| I don't want to talk about this. | ||
| It's off topic. | ||
| It's nothing to do with what we're here to say. | ||
| Could be completely a girl that was off her rocker and did whatever. | ||
| I'm not even going to speculate. | ||
| But the point is, if you don't like when people do that to you and don't understand all the facts, don't do it to them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| What are you talking about? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Hold on. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| I have to clarify. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I have to clarify that this is not what we're here for. | |
| Wait, wait, wait. | ||
| You two can do a different live stream. | ||
| I don't ever want to do another live stream. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| But, truthfully, you guys can do a different livestream where you can hash out all the, I said this, you said this, this was a lie, this was a confused statement, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| What we're trying to resolve... But, like, she's had the opportunity to respond to lies said about her... Because this is what we're here for! | ||
| That's what we're here for! | ||
|
unidentified
|
You don't get to hijack, you don't get to hijack the show! | |
| Let her respond to that, and then I'm gonna try to bring this thing home. | ||
| The girl's crying! | ||
| Let her respond to that. | ||
| Part of the entire back-and-forth that you and I had, which is part of the reason why we're here, because you and I had back-and-forths on the internet, was involving you attacking my character saying I made an autistic girl cry. | ||
| This girl came out and said that she was absolutely upset that you used that against her. | ||
| When did she say that? | ||
| Go on Twitter. | ||
| Okay, she personally inboxed me and told me that you were one of the worst people that she's ever met. | ||
| That can be the case. | ||
| Yeah, so don't use her as your hero because when you did that, you made her cry. | ||
| That can be the case. | ||
| You made her cry. | ||
| She also tweeted. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| She also tweeted support. | ||
| So don't use her. | ||
| Don't use her right now. | ||
| That's messed up. | ||
| It's messed up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Don't do it. | |
| Don't use her as your pawn. | ||
| You already made her cry. | ||
| Don't use her as your pawn. | ||
| Candace. | ||
| Don't use her as your pawn. | ||
| Candace. | ||
| Guys, this is a sidebar. | ||
| This is a sidebar. | ||
| You've got to wait. | ||
| You've got to wait. | ||
| Hold on. | ||
| But you both can, however you want to deal with this portion of the conversation, you guys can both take that out of the room. | ||
| You guys can take that out of the room. | ||
| We can end the stream with her saying that. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| We're not ending it on that. | ||
| What we're going to try to end this on is that I think... I have to respond to that, though. | ||
| I have to. | ||
| You can respond to that. | ||
| Just let her respond. | ||
| No, I don't like the psychology of this because what you did is you made a girl cry in a live stream with a bunch of like six, five YouTubers and now you're going to use that girl as a pawn. | ||
| I won't do it. | ||
| Why can't she tell me what I did? | ||
| Because what I'm actually going to happen to do is saying what the girl said to me in private and I'm not comfortable doing it so we need to move on entirely. | ||
| Then don't do that. | ||
| I cannot defend myself. | ||
| She cannot tell me what happened and what I did without me being able to respond. | ||
| And you're gonna let me respond. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's a video. | |
| You're gonna let me respond. | ||
| People can watch what you did. | ||
| They absolutely can. | ||
| I'm gonna clarify exactly what the situation was. | ||
| In June, at VidCon, there was someone who came into my private hotel room, illegally tapped me, and my friends in the private hotel room. | ||
| We had a really hard time getting her out. | ||
| After that happened, I did a livestream with my friends who were in that hotel room. | ||
| This girl can't defend herself. | ||
| In that hotel room. | ||
| And we didn't mention her name at all. | ||
| We were keeping it completely anonymous. | ||
| We were saying, well, as friends, we're talking about this crazy thing that happened to us in a hotel in VidCon. | ||
| Someone came in and illegally tapped us and wouldn't leave. | ||
| So this person then, because she watches us, began tweeting to let her on and say her peace. | ||
| She came on the livestream. | ||
| It was an ugly moment. | ||
| There was an argument. | ||
| We talked about how you know everything she does was an i think was probably | ||
| moment i've had the video | ||
| what happened was discussed what happened when i think what happened when | ||
| it's also discussing to really have someone in the anyways | ||
| so what happened was about two or three days ago can speak and we being that | ||
| uh... | ||
| basically a complete character tax they look basically look at me to be in this person is a girl cry | ||
| She pulled that out of thin air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I had a conversation with this girl and I can't defend myself. | |
| This is BS right now. | ||
| Okay, I hear you. | ||
| The audience hears you. | ||
| And this girl cannot stand him. | ||
| Literally cannot stand him whatsoever. | ||
| She's not autistic, and even if she was autistic, she used that as a scapegoat. | ||
| You are double attacking this girl. | ||
| She's double attacking this girl right now because you attacked her in a video and made her cry and now you're using her to make yourself sound good. | ||
| I'm talking about you saying lies about me. | ||
| Guys, move on because I can't defend myself. | ||
| It's a private inbox. | ||
| I can't defend myself. | ||
| Guys, we either stop. | ||
| We can either stop now. | ||
| Don't use a girl that you made cry to make yourself look good right now because what you guys did was low-handed and disgusting. | ||
| She publicly said. | ||
| It was disgusting. | ||
| She privated the video because it's one of the crassest moments. | ||
| She publicly said she doesn't have autism. | ||
| Okay, I heard you say that. | ||
| So you lied. | ||
| I did not lie. | ||
| You lied. | ||
| You lied. | ||
| She does not have autism. | ||
| You said she does. | ||
| You lied. | ||
| You are deserious. | ||
| As if that matters! | ||
|
unidentified
|
First off, first off, I cannot defend myself because I had a private conversation with this girl. | |
| I'm not going to say anything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hand it. | |
| I didn't I did not lie you lied. She does not autism you said she does you lied you are | ||
| Hand it she hates you you can have she absolutely hates you and she | ||
| And she retweeted we have logics video on you. She hates you as well | ||
| Okay, guys guys. I'm asking you both as as if you've got a little bit of respect for me | ||
| We got it We will end this because I think we're just veering into | ||
| the wrong way But I think what I think if we can get this to anything | ||
| that anyone's gonna feel right about I think I think basically | ||
| You have said your piece there will be a certain amount of people that are gonna accept | ||
| Either what your word is or not, that is what it is. | ||
| I think you have acknowledged a couple points that clarify this, and I don't think that discounts any of your other feelings. | ||
| All the other fighting, trolling stuff, like, yeah, this is, the internet has leaked into real life. | ||
| That basically is what this is. | ||
| Calling it fighting and trolling when it's someone actually saying. | ||
| Why don't you let him talk? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hang on, hang on, hang on. | |
| Candace, you haven't let anyone talk during this whole time. | ||
| Don't act like I'm the only one interrupting people. | ||
| We're all doing it. | ||
| We're all doing it. | ||
| I think the point of doing this thing had very little to do with all of the little fighting and who blocked who and all of that stuff, right? | ||
| The point of this was, what did Candace create, what were the intentions, and what came of it? | ||
| And I can tell you this, I think I have a sense of what the truth is on that. | ||
| That is my feeling. | ||
| The other stuff related to this, I think the stuff maybe Blair that you're responding to a little bit more, is just where I can't spend my life in that Part of this, you know what I mean? | ||
| I mean, I don't want to either, but if someone says a lie, I have to say it was a lie. | ||
| And I think that's completely fair. | ||
| I think that's completely fair. | ||
| We all have to defend ourselves in different ways. | ||
| So look, I don't know that we can get anywhere further with this right now, so we can either do the Q&A, there's a bunch of questions that people want to do, if we can do it kind of respectfully and clearly and cleanly, or we can just let it be. | ||
| But more than anything else, I really hope that the two of you realize that you guys, for all the raw feelings right now, you guys probably agree on 90% of stuff. | ||
| I, look, that may be true in terms, I honestly don't know what your political beliefs are, but in terms of how this was dealt with and how it could have been dealt with, I genuinely don't have respect for the situation whatsoever, and I hope, I don't think that, you know, we're gonna probably be in the same social circles, which is fine with you and fine with me. | ||
| This isn't what I want for my career, and I consider this, this will definitely be a low light. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It will definitely be a little late. | |
| So, I'm pretty disappointed as well in the way it was handled. | ||
| I'm disappointed in the way that you attempted to damage control all of this, involving telling lies about people. | ||
| And that was my intention to come in here and say, what about this lie, what about this lie, and that was the point. | ||
| Clearly, I conceded that your website, while you never got around to actually docking someone, | ||
| even though that was the intent of the website, to spread people's names attached to their | ||
| employers and their schools, you directly didn't end up having the capacity to actually | ||
| do that because you didn't actually launch the website. | ||
| However, the information was accessible by people who did dock those people, and all | ||
| of those people, maybe not all, but I saw about six or seven people whose personal addresses, | ||
| workplaces, and telephone numbers were docked. | ||
| So my entire contention with this was that you created a resource for doxers. | ||
| Well, this a little bit reminds me of sort of the road to hell is paved with good intentions. | ||
| I believe your intentions here. | ||
| I don't attack people's intentions until I see it wrong. | ||
| I believe your intentions were good. | ||
| I believe the intentions that you started this thing with were good and you realized that it was wrong. | ||
| You are acknowledging that. | ||
| Whether what people do after that on the internet is sort of hard for any of us to gauge. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's crazy that I have to be like responsible for what somebody who is I'm not for Q&A. | ||
| Maybe Candace wants to go. | ||
| to be a pretty nasty human being. | ||
| All right, so first off, I'll throw it to you guys here. | ||
| Do you wanna do the Q&A if we can do it in a kinda calm way? | ||
| I'm really okay either way if you just feel like we've gotten to where we need to be. | ||
| I feel like we've gotten to where we need to be. | ||
| I'm down for Q&A. | ||
| Maybe Candace wants to go, I can do Q&A. | ||
| I mean, I'm down. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm not even trying to do this for the sake of disagreeing, but I really am fine. | |
| I just think this is so off-brand for me to even be across from someone. | ||
| Then why did you invite me here? | ||
| Because I wanted to clarify that I didn't make a doxing website, and I was able to do that. | ||
| You could have done this without me. | ||
| You could have done this without me. | ||
| At the end of the day, everyone watching, I feel like I... | ||
| Although this has been sort of nutty, I feel like I actually, whatever questions I had remaining in my mind, I do feel like have been answered for me. | ||
| I hope that some other people will feel that too, but let's do this. | ||
| We're going to do a 20 minute Q&A. | ||
| We're going to do it because people have been in this thing asking. | ||
| I don't want to be disrespectful of their time. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | |
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, give us literally 60 seconds just to refill some waters, and we're gonna take a breath, | ||
| and all right, we'll be right back. | ||
| All right, guys, we're back. | ||
| All right, guys, we're back. | ||
| We took a breath. | ||
| We refilled Blair's water. | ||
| We're gonna try to tone it down just for the Q&A. | ||
| Everything being equal, as I said, I feel like I got what I needed. | ||
| I know we're getting lost in a little bit of this stuff, and you guys can all continue to make videos or not make videos, and Candace can respond or not. | ||
| Blair can never talk about this again, or she can. | ||
| Everyone can live their life the way we want. | ||
| That's the beauty of freedom, okay? | ||
| So we're going to do a couple of questions here. | ||
| The first few were comments, actually, on Super Chat. | ||
| As a web developer, I have created front ends that allowed for rudimentary data collection, such as name and address, to build out all the layers and test the underlying code. | ||
| That is a far cry from a fully functional website. | ||
| So I think that's something that Candice has consistently been saying. | ||
| Someone on Super Chat said, take control, Davey boy. | ||
| It's a little late for that. | ||
| OK. | ||
| I would never tell a client that such a site had a database because it gives them the impression that it is fully functional when it isn't. | ||
| I would have called my demo version Splash Pages 2. | ||
| I'm just going through these in the order that they are. | ||
| I did not pick this order here. | ||
| Someone said, really great content. | ||
| Thanks for exploring the misunderstanding. | ||
| Red Pill Black was innocent the entire time, but Blair White made some fair points, even if the criticism was moot. | ||
| Still a fan of both of you. | ||
| OK, and I think you guys are actually going to have a lot of crossover in fans, which is the funny part here. | ||
| Dave looks so happy to finally have a live debate on his show again. | ||
| All right, I'll take it. | ||
| Well, this is the first that went to this level, let's say. | ||
| I've had some conversations that, we did more debates about God and things like that. | ||
| Ruben, please tell both girls to stop shouting, interrupting, and trying to one-up each other. | ||
| Breathe, slow down, and be patient. | ||
| You want to all take a breath together? | ||
| Little late, little late. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I will say, we shouldn't have screamed. | ||
| I will say that. | ||
| It was dumb. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Listen, I will gladly, if you guys will ever do it, have you both over for dinner at some other point when this is all... | ||
| You know, behind us, and we can talk the rest of it out over some booze. | ||
| Somebody said, the reason why people piled on Red Pill Black recently is a lot due to algorithms, not a conspiracy. | ||
| So that's interesting. | ||
| We all sort of discussed that a little bit before, that it's hard to know how much of this is, are these people coordinating, is it paid? | ||
| And just to also say fair, I am new to YouTube. | ||
| I think people don't understand that. | ||
| I don't understand what you might perceive to be so normal. | ||
| How long have you been on YouTube? | ||
| About a year and seven months. | ||
| Yeah, so what you might perceive to be so normal because you're a more experienced YouTuber, like, I've only been on YouTube for two, three months. | ||
| Like, it just seemed, like, crazy to me that eleven YouTubers would jump into a sweepchat. | ||
| And that might be totally normal. | ||
| It could be my own ignorance, but it just seemed very aggressive. | ||
| Yeah, YouTube's the real thing. | ||
| I think it's more of a case of, like, this was just something that was a hot topic at the time. | ||
| Yeah, okay wait, someone here did ask a good question that I think a few people, that we didn't address, that I think a bunch of people have said. | ||
| So he's saying that people were mad the site was never taken down. | ||
| So why wasn't the splash, I meant to ask you this actually, why wasn't the splash page taken down until what, about 10 days ago? | ||
| Because I wanted to be really honest people about my background, where I came from. | ||
| I never thought like to delete my past. I always talked about it. I was very | ||
| forward with it. This is something that came up. | ||
| They didn't find this. Like I said, they didn't break the story | ||
| I'd been talking about in every single interview. And as I said, we didn't build the technology out. | ||
| And I'm happy those web developers are saying that they would call it a splash page because that's what it was | ||
| called. | ||
| We didn't build the technology. So I didn't, I thought no harm, no foul. | ||
| It's not functioning. Leave it there. And it was gonna naturally expire in February, which it is. | ||
| Okay, a few people said this, which is one of Blair's main points. | ||
| If you had just taken down the site, which you're addressing now, nobody would have cared. | ||
| But the doubling down and calling people like TreeLogic, quote, funded, made everything worse. | ||
| So that's a point Blair's made a couple times. | ||
| That might be true. | ||
| You have to. | ||
| I've been for that kind of thing. | ||
| I want someone to look at me the way Dave Rubin's looking at his assortment of whiskey right now. | ||
| It's all right there. | ||
| There's a lot of good stuff over there. | ||
| I thought it was me you were looking at. | ||
| I could have just actually stepped off camera and started drinking. | ||
| No one would have cared. | ||
| No one would have noticed. | ||
| That would have been so funny. | ||
| Candace, your site is well-intentioned as it is, but has tremendous potential of abuse. | ||
| You're acknowledging that. | ||
| Why do you trust yourself, or anyone else for that matter, with that kind of power? | ||
| By the way, I don't, like I said, I've said a thousand times, totally naive, stepped into an internet culture that I want nothing to do with, and it had nothing to do with politics. | ||
| It just was meant to be something, and I've said often, it was something that was intended, that was for good, and it would have very quickly been used for evil. | ||
| I never heard you. | ||
| All right, here's one that a couple people have also addressed, sort of, and I think Blair kind of hit this. | ||
| Candace, why are you calling YouTubers with more subs than you bottom feeders and basement dwellers? | ||
| It was not jealousy, it was a critique. | ||
| Listen, if you think a critique to me is doing one video that's interactive, when you do five videos and you're talking about somebody's looks, okay? | ||
| And they talk about everything. | ||
| Every layer of me. | ||
| Like, the videos that I do, they don't even like my content, all this stuff. | ||
| If it was just a critique, fine. | ||
| They went into full insult. | ||
| And to me, that's a bottom-feeding tactic. | ||
| That's very high school and it's very juvenile. | ||
| If they had stuck to the facts, they would have had much more respect, but they didn't. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Andy Warski made cogent arguments about what the problem was, and you have yet to address them. | ||
| Lots of people just want an apology. | ||
| Personally, I want to forgive you, however your adversarial stance makes that difficult. | ||
| So you did sort of say that you don't want to apologize because your intentions were not... No, it's not even that. | ||
| It's just that, as we've already said, I didn't build something that could dox people. | ||
| And I was going to finish my statement before. | ||
| If those people got doxxed, of course, and if their lives, I don't think they were, because it's been a year we would have heard about it, if their lives were ruined because their address was put on the deep web of kiwi farms, of course I'm sorry that happened as a result of something that I was building and was never launched because for some reason people were able to access it on the back end. | ||
| Of course I'm sorry, but I was being asked to apologize for doxxing people and I never did it. | ||
| So of course I'm going to double down and say, no, I'm not apologizing for that because I didn't do that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I actually don't know, but I did see a few comments that a bunch of people are saying Kiwi Farms is not deep web because it's publicly accessible. | ||
| This may be a little bit of a, one of the definition things. | ||
| So I did see a few, I don't know, I actually don't know, but I did see a few comments that a bunch of people | ||
| are saying Kiwi Farms is not deep web because it's publicly accessible. | ||
| So I didn't know that. | ||
| Deep web is like you have to use some sort of program to hide your IP and like go really deep. | ||
| That's, yeah. | ||
| I don't know what to say other than I didn't know. | ||
| I can't pretend that I know things that I don't. | ||
| Okay, that's fair. | ||
| All right, so the problem is gathering information in one place. | ||
| Organization of this data make it a more pointed tool for a bad actor to use, so this is absolutely what your point was. | ||
| It's not okay to say it's completely your fault, but you can say putting the information under one roof is not the same as getting it off on Facebook. | ||
| So that's an interesting distinction. | ||
| They could have done this on Facebook. | ||
| The way it was organized, yeah. | ||
| I get this argument of if, if, if, if, but I don't live in a world of ifs. | ||
| I didn't launch it. | ||
| I dropped the project. | ||
| I totally understand that. As I said, it never launched, and I don't know how many times I can say that it hasn't | ||
| launched. | ||
| I get this argument of if, if, if, if, but I don't live in a world of ifs. I didn't launch it. I dropped the project. | ||
| I realized it could be used for evil. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Like Lacey, so I think they're talking about Lacey Green. | ||
| Like Lacey, who was skeptical at first but seems okay, and others who, quote, changed sides. | ||
| I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and let them prove they've changed. | ||
| The dangers of the project were that big. | ||
| I'm not totally sure I followed all that. | ||
| Blair, are you going to do another chat with Theron soon, maybe about free speech? | ||
| And have either of you seen Ferguson, the play? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I haven't, and I should do another stream with Theron. | |
| She's cool. | ||
| All right, let's see. | ||
| Oh, it's Theron, right? | ||
| Theron. | ||
| It's Theron? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| You know, there's a couple other things here. | ||
| Theron Meyer reached out to me. | ||
| She sent me an email, actually. | ||
| All right, listen. | ||
| I don't know that we got exactly what we wanted to get out of this, but I don't know that that's actually possible in the way these things go. | ||
| So you both have ally in me, and none of us are perfect, and I hope we got somewhere with this thing. | ||
| So I hope that you guys feel like we got somewhere with this thing. | ||
| What are the chances the internet just stops with this right now? | ||
| That's how the internet behaves, right? | ||
| Yeah, things blow over. | ||
| And that was my whole thing. | ||
| I didn't understand why it was drawn out. | ||
| If all this was so easily cleared up, why she couldn't have made... I mean, honestly, if it was me, and again, I'm not you, but if it was me and there was all these lies about me or rumors about me, the first thing I would have done is made a video on my channel and said, This isn't true, this isn't true, this isn't true. | ||
| But instead, you blocked everyone asking questions, you blocked all criticism, and you drew it out until this day on the Rubin Report, which, honestly, I know it probably seems like, oh, we'll get, you know, it'll be heard more because of the Rubin Report, but in reality, people who are wondering about this will go directly to your channel. | ||
| So, I don't know, that would just be my, I'm not trying to be condescending, that would be my advice if anything ever happens like this, you should probably just do it on your channel. | ||
| Right, I genuinely did not think that this was going to be this long of a portion, especially for something that never launched, A. And B, I did not feel that... I don't like that you keep saying that you should have responded to the questions. | ||
| The videos were already made. | ||
| That's a huge insult to go out and make videos about someone before you contact them. | ||
| I didn't cut you off, please don't cut me off. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| To make videos about someone without context, I just think it's wrong. | ||
| I am not going to, as I said, the expression negotiate with terrorists and say this is what you have to do now to make amends because we made a bunch of videos about you. | ||
| I didn't like it, I thought it was nasty, and I dealt with it as I dealt with it. | ||
| You know, it's interesting to me, as the three of us do put videos up on YouTube for whatever we consider ourselves, you also do learn about this in different ways. | ||
| A year ago, if people had been attacking me the way they attack me now, I might have fought more. | ||
| I now see it as an exercise in futility, which I think is sort of where you're at, and perhaps your style would be to attack them back more, and plenty of people do that. | ||
| Just different styles, different approaches. | ||
| Different styles, I just think it would have been a lot more, That's fine. | ||
| Productive. | ||
| If that's what you think, that's absolutely fine. | ||
| All right, well, I hope you guys got something out of this, and the conversation obviously is gonna continue. | ||
| I'm gonna try to convince them both to have a drink with me right now, and we shall- To drink right now? | ||
| See how that goes. | ||
| You both didn't exactly say no with those looks. | ||
| Day drinking. | ||
| All right, thanks guys. |
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