Candace Owens and Blair White clash on The Rubin Report regarding the "Social Autopsy" project, debating whether it constituted malicious doxxing or a misguided educational tool. While Owens admits the site was never launched and her intentions were flawed, she refuses to apologize for third-party misuse of her data. White argues the database facilitated vigilante harassment, citing specific incidents involving Zoe Quinn's family and an autistic girl, while accusations of Richard Spencer funding and envy-driven attacks from YouTubers like Alex Jones escalate tensions. Ultimately, the heated exchange highlights how organizing public information can empower bad actors, leaving Rubin uncertain if online conflicts will ever truly subside. [Automatically generated summary]
All of you out there in the digital universe have been waiting for this, and especially on the Twitter.
The anonymous people, and the furry cats, and the green frogs, and the rest of you.
You've all wanted this.
So I want to set a couple things up before I mention and I say hello to my guests today.
I'm sitting between two people that I consider friends, two people that I respect, two people that were brave enough to not just fight about things online and from the comforts of anonymity, but two people who were willing to sit across from each other with serious disagreements, with some bad blood there and some things being said already.
But we're willing to come here and talk about everything that we're going to talk about for the next hour.
And to me, that already is a win for everything that's going on in the country these days, everything that's going on online these days, and everything else.
Beyond that, the three of us.
Oh, you know what?
I'm going to do some intros first.
So, of course, you guys know Candace Owens, Red Pill Black.
Candace was a guest on this show just about three weeks ago, and I think that was one of the things that kind of put you on the map.
Literally about four or five days later, it seems that this whole explosion about what social autopsy is or what it was kind of happened.
Okay, so we've got a black conservative, a trans conservative, a gay liberal, but I'm an old school liberal, which is everything against identity politics these days, and I know none of us care about that.
That's not that long ago.
but I think it's important just to put it out there that we're doing this and that in and of itself
is a little bit of a statement right there.
And we're doing this face to face.
And more importantly than anything else perhaps, we all were lefties.
Yes.
We all were on the other side of perhaps where we're at now politically.
Eighteen months ago and I've kind of had a slow evolution over these last couple years.
And I think all of those things are worth saying because I think actually that there's a lot that we do agree on and hopefully we can get to some of that.
But I know you guys are watching because you want to find out more about what actually happened with Candace's website, Social Autopsy.
Now she explained this fully to me when we sat down about a month ago.
And then after that a bunch of YouTubers started making videos about Her comments on it, was some of it true?
It sounds like maybe some definitions were slightly confused.
I think I've talked enough.
I thought the best way to start would be for you simply to just explain once again your involvement in social autopsy and why you did it and sort of where it's at at the moment and then we'll go from there.
Right, so I just want to start off because we just had a conversation off camera.
She posted something that said my predictions that I talked about.
I'm not comfortable using the she pronoun.
Not because, it's not anything to be disrespectful, it's just that a lot of people that follow me don't know that Blair is trans and a lot of people that follow her maybe don't know me, vice versa, and I think that it betrays the audience when you No, we're definitely adults.
sound like this is a petty cat fight and there are two girls sitting across from a table
when in fact it is a grown man sitting across from a grown woman who has had a lot of things
to say about me when I've never even met you or said negative comment about you.
You're doing that in a way to be passive-aggressive and petty, but in a way that your audience doesn't actually read, because you do have the very hardcore conservative audience, and so they're not really going to read it as petty.
I'm happy to call you a she for the rest so that we can move on from the pronoun thing.
But I want to make it clear because I don't want to have to afterwards say, if this is your stance on trans, why did you sit across from a trans person and call them she?
So I'm making it clear because as we know, you guys like to dig up every single thing that I do and every single man.
Okay, so the backstory to the backstory, obviously you know about social autopsy,
but there's a very relevant part of this, which is essentially that when I was in high school,
I had an experience that happened to me, and it's something that I like to talk about factually,
and I hate talking about it because it involves other people.
And I'm out here talking about my opinions, my beliefs, when you're involving other people,
I think it's a little unfair.
When I was a junior in high school, I received about,
One night I was sitting on the couch with my boyfriend, and I received anonymous phone calls.
And at the end of watching Talladega Nights with my boyfriend, I picked up the phone, I listened to the voicemails, and there were people, four boys, that were screaming back and forth, calling me a dirty nigger, saying we're going to tarnify your family, saying we're going to do to you like we did to Martin Luther King, put a bullet in the back of your head, made references to Rosa Parks.
It was really probably the nastiest thing that I've ever heard in my entire life.
After hearing that, and by the way, this is not a victim story, it's just something that factually happened that you guys can all research.
After hearing those voicemails, I went to school the next day and I didn't call the cops or anything, but I was a little terrified because I did not know four people that wanted to see me dead and that hated me.
Period.
I went to school the next day, the teacher essentially was, we were talking in a philosophy class, I brought up what had happened, it was like a moment where it made sense to bring up what happened the night before, and the teacher jumped up and said, like, you're going to the principal right now, you're reporting this, like, that's very serious, like, I want to take you right now.
He picks me up, I go into the principal's office, and she hears the voicemails, which I still had, there were three of them, and she made the decision to call the police.
Like, totally out of, I would have never called the police if I had done it the night before.
It turns out by some random stroke of like super misfortune that one of the kids that was in the car when they left these voicemails happened to be the current governor of Connecticut's son.
And where this would have normally been like maybe like a tap on the finger sort of a thing, this turned into an FBI investigation.
And, you know, the then mayor was making comments that were very, like, you know, political.
It became political.
So all of a sudden, I'm in school, and I've got the NAACP on the front steps.
There's no, you can not respond, you can respond, you can block me, whatever it is.
What I'm saying is, people are criticizing the way that you've handled the situation.
You have the backstory, which I will absolutely let you finish, but the way you're dealing with people calling out the story and calling out things that they think maybe are fraudulent, maybe they're not fraudulent, maybe you can clear that up, is you haven't actually cleared it up.
You've blocked everyone.
People can attest to that.
Everyone.
Andy Warski, Bunty King.
Dave Collin, who actually provided screenshots of the things he said to you.
So unlike me, I can see you blocking me for calling you trash.
And honestly, I'll say I'm sorry for calling you trash.
That's totally fine.
But as far as him, he sent like four or five very respectful tweets, just asking for questions, asking for your side of the story.
Hold on, we gotta get the full story before, because otherwise there's gonna be enough people
watching this that still aren't clear on the full story, that if we go too far into the follow-up,
we're gonna get lost here.
By the way, I just really quick wanna mention that when you texted me and said,
I wanna do this on your show, and I'd like to do it with Blair,
I thought about it for a minute, because I wasn't even sure
I think that this Twitter, YouTube drama, I think, causes, it's partly, we're all here because of just this drama machine that just endlessly drags everybody.
But, to both of your credit, you asked me to do it, and I texted you, and literally within 30 seconds, you said you would do it.
And people should know that, because we live in a time when no one backs themselves up.
They hide and say all this crap.
So I just want to put that out there.
But let's just get, Through the story, and then we can do the rest.
So, what we thought was, what if there was a way, when kids do these stupid things, and we initially always thought about kids, we had to change it because people said, first try it on adults, try to send it a little looser because people are sensitive when it comes to children, and we said, what if there was a way that we could archive what they say with A no-no type of a punishment, like maybe it's held for three months, and everybody, like all of these schools, we were meeting with principals of schools, of high schools, before we even decided what we wanted to do.
Well, they care about being on the football team, right?
What if you said, you're on Social Autism, all these schools have this program, you said this to Carolina, whatever it is, now you don't get to try out for the football team.
Something that's like petty, you know?
Better than getting arrested, right?
It's better than knowing that you were a part of someone's suicide because you said something mean.
And because I don't think kids have the mentality that their brains are underdeveloped.
Like, our brains were underdeveloped to really understand the implications of what they're doing.
The web developer that I was speaking to, and I was actually at the time, remember I used to work in finance, I was talking to some potential investors and they said, as I mentioned, start with adults.
Start with adults, do something, build something that we can kind of see what you're thinking of how it would work in terms of archiving things, and we'll go from there.
All right, so to be clear, and then I'm going to let you jump in, when you created this, it was basically to defend some of these kids from wrecking their lives, and schools would be able to look and maybe go, oh, you actually did have a decent track record here.
You said this stupid thing, but we're not going to let that do anything.
And unless I'm understanding, I want, you know, we have to do a little something here with definitions of words, because What you're describing there doesn't sound to me like a doxing website.
A doxing website would be, I'm using this site to release information about people.
But you're saying basically this was going to be an archive home for schools to look at this information and sift through it.
I mean, she's definitely playing the whole, like, warn and protect kids thing, which I think, honestly, your heart could have very well been in the right place, but the reality is, when you aggregate information of children and you attach it to where they go to school, which was the intent of your website, in fact, you actually said that it was the best time to be on the website if you were a child because it teaches you... Can you slow down?
Like, if people asked questions, we didn't want to shut off the possibility of having children.
If we found out this worked and this was harmless and, you know, no harm, no foul, we didn't want to come out and say, we're never going to put a minor on here.
Because again, the whole reason I thought of the idea was because of what happened to me when I was a minor.
If this was your intent, just so we're clear, we're here because if this was your intent, and if it had happened, even though it didn't, right?
Candace- That's why we're pissed, and that's why we're trying to ruin everything that you are, because we have decided that we are policing- How have I tried to ruin it?
You are someone who supports free speech as part of your message as a conservative, which is a great message.
Do you really think it's that crazy for people to see Redpo Black supporting free speech and then look back a year ago and see that she tried to create a website that docks people?
And you can say it wasn't doxing, but when you publish people's information, it is doxing.
Yeah, alright, so let's just, one thing at a time here, because there's a lot here.
So first off, we can pull up, you're welcome to pull up the definition of doxing.
I think part of what's happening here is we're struggling with a couple of, as I said, splash page, which you did forward me some emails, you guys were referring to this as a splash page the entire time.
Now, in essence, that may have been some confusion by your web guy.
Candace, what I think people are confused by is, regardless of the definition of SplashPage, if it was non-functioning, how did it, did it in fact collect the information of 20,000 people?
I am more than happy to admit, and like I said to Dave...
I am more than happy to admit that when I stated that I said that I regurgitated verbatim and he saw the emails what my web developer called it as soon as we started he said because we're not building technology that you don't have the money to we had to raise money to build the technology that was fully funded Okay, hold on.
I think that's an important distinction, what we just got to there.
I'm agreeing with you, and I think Blair will take my word for it, that I saw the emails that your web developer referred to it as a non-functioning splash page, but you're also acknowledging that that's not quite right.
Okay, but the problem with you saying it's not true is that you're making it seem like I'm a liar.
I was never a liar.
I said what was told to me from the very time that we started this, what my web developer called it from start to finish, I said exactly what was told to me.
The issue is that you're making it seem like I intentionally lied to try to hide something.
To be honest, to be honest, I know this is going to super hurt your egos, But I didn't watch a single one of your videos except for the Google Hangout for the first hour that you were on it.
For people that believed me, You're all dumbass bitches.
She's a complete SJW and people are so dumb.
By the way, this beef with her started before she ever thought about doxxing because she literally says, from the second I saw her, I thought, wow, that's definitely an act.
This is honestly envy dressed up as righteousness.
Okay, so it sounds like to me, I'm just trying to get to facts here because I get it, we can We can do this all day.
We can look at every tweet that we all sent or that everyone sent to each other and all the mean little things and that's what everyone, all the people that I think are the bad actors in this and all the people that just want us to relentlessly fight, there's nothing that's gonna make them happier than to watch you two just scream at each other.
You are acknowledging that it did take in information, meaning that people could submit information, but it was Facebook pages and things of that matter.
Now, as I understand the definition of doxing, but this is, I think, where maybe we could get a little lost in the exact specifics, is that doxing would only be if that information was released, right?
If you look at the Kiwi Farms link that people are spreading around, there are people posting in that thread, sharing their personal addresses, and yes... That's bullshit!
The point is when you create a digital hit list of people who are online bullies, especially when it comes to, a lot of the time it's conservatives and people who are on this, the reason why these people are on there, you can see their comments that they made, the reason why they're put on the website.
Okay, but you- Vigilantes then go to this website, the point is that it was a trash idea, it was an Orwellian nightmare, people went to it, abused it- It never launched!
Hold on.
I'm aware, but the information, the database- This is crazy.
The database was still accessible from people, that is the problem.
You never officially launched it, and thank God, never came to full fruition.
However, that information was still accessible, it was abused, and these people were doxxed.
People's businesses were put out there- She is- People's home addresses- Can I just ask you a question, just like to play devil's advocate here?
You went and blocked me on stream and said that I dox people a thousand times, and then you clarified a couple of days on Twitter when I, when I asked you straight up, you said all I said was that you dox people.
Okay, so with that question in mind, it... Okay, first off, I think she is... Alright, it sounds to me if we could just try to...
Calm for a second.
You are acknowledging that the site itself was not doxing people, but that the list... And what you're saying is, I can't control what people do with that list.
I've said that a thousand times, which is why this is just a witch hunt, because I've already said that, I've already said that.
And then the thing is, I'm not comfortable with you pretending that you did not put out there all you guys said a thousand times over, was that I dox people, I dox people, I dox people.
Okay, that's just, honestly, like, it should be beneath you, but I guess it's not.
That's why I met Mike Cernovich right when this was going down, when I got attacked, and I realized that the reason why I didn't want to launch this website was because I literally realized that it was going to be a tool for SJWs to attack conservatives, and we had nothing to do with politics.
So when this girl, who she's for some reason defending, posted this original smear, she said that I was launching this website, it was going to turn it against conservatives, use their money, okay?
And like the whole reason I stopped the project was I realized it was going to be politicized and it was going to become a weapon that I never intended.
You could provide evidence that I was doxxing people, but you said it.
My point is that, so for Richard Spencer, for this video to be online, this girl makes a crazy, insane video saying that I'm going to launch this website in three weeks and I'm using conservative dollars.
It's just weird to be so close to someone who, okay, do you not think it's weird that somebody who has a really small following was able to get all the way to Richard Spencer in 24 hours?
You're sitting across and you're defending Richard Spencer and a woman that literally sounded like she was on crack cocaine making a conspiracy about me, which you basically are cosigning.
you know something i would be saying that i have an answer are you when it's
loaded childish when you call their crack at that was me pointing that out
That was me saying that clearly, and this is where we can all find common ground, that we clearly have not all been the best, we've all used ad hominems.
You refusing to answer Dave Collins' questions and then saying that she's a crackhead so she's not worth responding to, that's you giving up the debate and saying she's a crackhead.
Your answer to the question of why I didn't answer is that anybody that dedicates, especially in the sphere of what's going on in the world today, right?
We've got terrorist attacks happening, everything that's going on with the Trump presidency, the invasion that just happened over in the Middle East in terms of Russian imprints.
Dedicates five videos to talking about me and something that never launched.
Like, it's just a little weird to me.
It's like, I have better things to do than deal with bottom feeders.
But that being said, you do acknowledge that by collecting this information, it is possible that that information could have got hacked into, et cetera, et cetera, even if that was not your intention.
I think you're both getting some points here, and it's hard to not get lost in the, this person said this on this video, and we tweeted this, and that, and that whole thing.
You are admitting that this was more than a splash page by the functional definition of what splash page is, okay.
You are also admitting that your intent, I think you're accepting that her intentions were not too dox, that her intentions were good, right?
I mean, it seems to me that this whole thing- I didn't understand internet culture when I created this at all.
I wasn't on Twitter.
I didn't understand that there was this culture war going on.
As I said, and I know you chuckled, when I met Mike Cernovich, he was incredibly intelligent, so I have nothing bad to say about him.
He perceived that this was a girl that was falling down the rabbit hole, had no idea how something that she made would have been abused, and that was the end of it.
Honestly, Candace, you know, I'm not here to hold you to your past.
We all have a past.
We all were different.
We're all different places politically a year ago.
I'm sure we all were.
It's not about holding to your past.
Everyone has one.
It's about, honestly, the entire thing.
Again, out of all those YouTubers, and please don't interrupt me, out of all those YouTubers, I didn't make a video.
Yes, I was live for a little while talking to people.
I did not make a video.
If something, if I'm a YouTuber, if I don't make a video, it's really not that important for me to make a video.
That's the first thing.
So I was never, like, that invested in this, which is why I was kind of confused when she shows me the debate when there's been a million YouTubers who have made, like I said, videos and have, like, even if the facts are wrong, have laid out, like, facts, this is why we disagree with Candace, whatever.
So, again, I guess I would ask, like, why you picked me?
Sitting across from you, okay, who could not accept my transition from liberal to conservative, that is like irresistibly ironic, A. B, because I felt that the rest of those people were bottom feeders looking for hits, okay?
And you have an audience, so if anything, for you to show up today, you have everything to lose, nothing to gain.
You're not going to gain anything off of me.
These other people who are at the bottom demanding that I go on their shows, look how many hits, look at their YouTube pages, it's like, Averaging 4,000 views, 4,000 views, and all of a sudden they're at 100,000 views.
I knew exactly what it was about.
Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I really don't think this was ever about you guys being concerned about doxxing, because the information was right there.
As you said, my website never doxxed a single person.
I think this was always about YouTubers seeing someone rise.
Even in the stream, which you were there with that guy, he says, yeah, no, I don't even believe.
How did she get to this many subscribers?
They're even talking about the way I look, all of these things.
It was never about doxxing people.
unidentified
was honestly to me jealousy right i never saw either of those things by the way
So this is the part of it, look, this is the part of it that, guys, I wouldn't have done this if I didn't think you guys were above this, so I think we gotta figure out a way to get out of the weeds on that, because, look, we can argue about whether it's right to block people, we can argue about whether they just want clicks off you, which... They do!
Yes, it's very weird that Richard Spencer did this so early and that this person made this video, which is a complete lie, saying that, and by the way, you're not talking about any of the lies she told in that video.
First of all, Candace, it is completely on you if you make a claim about someone, especially something that someone was paid under the table to make a video about you.
It is completely on you to provide evidence for that claim.
And you can say that your opinion... But she has told about why... If these YouTubers are really the gatekeepers of truth, why aren't they assessing the lies that this woman told?
She said I was missing a sight in three weeks.
She said she doesn't think that's true.
She spent time, 40 minutes to be precise, talking about all of my untruths.
Cherry picking every single thing that I have seen about the person.
If all you're going to do is sit here and defend this person, then we're going to talk about the fact that this person has told lie after lie after lie after lie after lie, but you don't care about any of those lies.
Candace, she could have lied and you could have lied too.
Both of you guys got to be liars.
unidentified
Both of you guys said... The fact that you said that she was paid by someone... I didn't make a video about her trying to take down... Just let her finish.
In the livestream, if you watched it, you might have seen me say, I don't know Tree of Logic, I don't know if she likes my content, because I had never actually watched her prior to that.
I mean, literally, we could be here for the next 20 hours doing this, right?
So I think we actually have made a little bit of headway here, believe it or not, because I think we've acknowledged that you did not, that when you realize the error of your mistake, I think you are conceding That being said, bad things were done with the information.
You're saying you had no control of that information, and I think you feel bad that that actually did happen, but this is the old you.
I showed no remorse because A, and we go back because she's already conceded the point so I'm not trying to be a dead horse here, she was telling people that I doxxed people and that was a lie.
So I showed no remorse because they were accusing me of being a doxxer and that is a very strong word, okay?
And the source of that lie, as we've already talked about, was not you, okay, but was a video that, aside from saying I doxxed people, said that I was like, An undercover liberal that was using people for their money.
Those are really nasty lies.
They're nasty lies.
And rather than try to, like, build a bridge, which I recommend, by the way, any YouTubers that want hits, like, I would have gone on and spoken about this if anybody had approached, like, an individual as opposed to, like, trashing me and then saying, defend yourself.
I had you on my show and we spent about eight hours together after and I don't feel that and if you're doing it, as I said to you right before we started, you're doing a freaking hell of a job because I think I'm a pretty good judge of character.
Because, again, we've all had evolutions, so... And why can't you accept mine?
So let her, let her... It's just the irony of, you know, we sit up and we do these response videos to liberals and social justice warriors, and a lot of them haven't done anything nearly as bad as creating a website that attaches people's mean words to their employers and their schools.
So, for that reason, I was never really prone or excited about giving you so much slack.
that I would believe that you were genuine.
I was speculating like this was just a year ago and now she's up here doing complete 180.
It's possible but it was definitely, you know, a speculation.
And again, again, I'm not here to hold you to your past.
It's simply about the lies you've told, like, in the past month, defending yourself, that I'm more interested in.
Yeah, you said you perceived me to be a fraud instantly, so for you to say that this is, like, don't make, so we should not make this about, so you had issues with me before this ever even came out.
Okay, but I don't think, I don't think, okay, guys, but I don't think anyone, I don't think anyone watching this is watching, though, and the point of this whole thing is, is that Blair doesn't like Candace or Candace doesn't like Blair.
Yeah, but the thing is, like, it's, it's, to me, it's very high school nasty when someone says, I just saw you, I didn't like you.
To me, it seems, and I'm gonna be honest, it seems like these, They're very high school.
These YouTubers are very high school and they see a new person and it's about taking someone down.
If you're genuinely a person that cares about this movement that we're all a part of, definitely different sides of the spectrum.
I don't think that I could ever do some of the things that you did in terms of talking about people for no reason.
I've never even met.
Um, but if that's generally what your interest was, and you're interested in helping, why not build bridges?
Like, why not, like, reach out and say, Dave, like, respect people.
Dave, as soon as these rumors came out, reach out to me.
Paul Joseph Watson, who you hammered on this stream.
You talked so much trash about Infowars and those people.
That's a whole audience of people that you're just, if you're a part, about this movement, why are you talking about people like they're absolute morons?
The reason I criticized Paul Joseph Watson was because initially he came out with a response saying that your website was from four years ago and it just wasn't.
All you had to do, if I saw something about Dave that I wasn't sure if it was, like the way that Dave reached out to me, the way that Paul reached out to me, the way that these people reached out and asked a question first, that's just being respectful.
We're all a part of the same movement.
Why are you trying to break it off by like talking trash about Paul Joseph Watson, talking trash about cancer?
Oh yeah, double down on your, what I meant by that, and let me clarify, is that one of
the most beautiful things about this is that, that I, what I enjoy about this conservative
movement is that it's a human to human experience again.
It's not believing salacious headlines and being like, wait a second, let me trust my gut.
I know I met this person, like you said.
I said, Candace is definitely not a fake conservative, even though this is what people are trying to tell me.
I didn't perceive that.
That was cool.
I'm not saying that, by the way, you do your research and you find out that this person is a fraud, that you don't go hard, but grant the courtesy of respect, but before you try to break off this movement and Basically gaslight people that watch.
I think there would be no such thing as journalistic integrity if everyone in this world had this mentality of, this person supports the same president as me, this person has similar ideas to me, I will never criticize them, I will never become a skeptic, and I will double down for them.
I'm saying that I think that you could have handled yourself better if you genuinely thought, okay, that this person was a fraud.
And listen, where we go from here doesn't really matter because I think that you and I are just fundamentally different people and I have the courage and respect, but if somebody once gave me a platform and I perceived them to be a good person, before I go on a podcast with a bunch of people in their basement talking.
If you thought that he wrote something that was untrue, just reach out and say, you could have been on a podcast saying, actually, I reached out to him and he told me this.
You could have just used facts, but instead you were- Candace.
I don't owe you, Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, any amount of extra slack, any amount of an unwillingness to criticize them, because I've done a livestream with one of them before.
No one's perfect here, and I think you did make a good point earlier that we've all acted in ways online, we don't all act with all the consistency that we all say we want to and all those things, and okay.
None of the, all the drama stuff is where we're getting lost.
I think if we try to get out of this in any kind of way that makes some sense, If you basically believe her intentions and her, you believe her, okay, we got the intentions part, but the political evolution, do you think her political evolution, that's, a lot of people seem to be hung up on that.
I don't know, my initial judgment based on her behavior and the things she was saying was that there was probably some amount of like, you know, reading off the script and saying things that people want to hear.
However, you're sitting across from me saying that it originated from Tree of Logic, who is a YouTuber.
YouTube is not the deep web.
So my point about that is, I've found humor in the amount of deflections that she's done, trying to make it seem like it's so crazy that it's a deep web conspiracy, and people were paid, and it's this huge conspiracy against her, because that makes people less likely to believe it.
You've intentionally done that.
unidentified
are you guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys
Okay, we can either do two, there's two things happening here.
One is the facts of what happened that caused this whole thing to happen, right?
One are the facts.
And then one is everything else of all the behavior that everyone has done and whether you speculated or you misspoke on this or whatever.
But I don't think, I actually don't think that if there's any adults listening to this and not just the people that want us to hate each other, I don't think they care about any of that stuff.
That's my particular opinion.
I'll let you respond to that and then just pause for a second.
Do you think that's fair?
I just think there's two things going on here.
There's the fact of what Candace is and what she has done, and if we can get to a truth about what social autopsy was.
And then there's just the rest of it.
As you said, and I give you credit for sitting here, because you weren't one of the people that felt that this was something that you had to make videos and all that.
So you're sort of here by proxy in an odd way, but you had the desire to do it.
I just knew that if I had said, like, I don't really care about this, it would be Candace tweeting that I ran.
I knew that would happen, so I didn't do that.
But I will say, again, what I've cared the most about, and when I say care, it's like I found humor in it.
So I haven't cared that much.
It's been me looking at the way that you've lied and you've deflected and the things that you've completely made up out of thin air that has been humorous to me that I've talked about.
The biggest part of this piece, the biggest thing to me, and you talk about the biggest thing to you, the biggest thing to me is that the entire thing was predicated on a lie which you helped perpetuate to 130,000 people that I dox people.
You've already conceded the point that I don't dox people.
You're saying that what you made...
was used to dox people on a website that you have nothing to do with, okay?
That was my thing that pissed me the most off, and you're already making that's not true.
So you're more concerned with how I responded to the lie.
I'm talking about the initial- That was a lie, but you told lies about me too.
Yeah, but you completely lied by saying I dox people.
You did, but what I'm saying is that you keep pretending that this is about me lying,
but the biggest lie, the reason we're here, right, is because there was a claim that caught fire
that I personally dox people, and that affects my integrity, okay?
People were talking about that, thinking that that was actually valid.
People were tweeting- At the sound of light to you, people that I work with, and everyone reached out, because again, those people are more professionally, they have a better professional reputation than some of these bottom-feeing YouTubers, to get to the bottom of it.
And I've had to clarify over and over again that I never dox anybody.
So it's a big deal that you can just backtrack now and say, okay, that part was a lie, but what's more interesting is how you responded.
The only point I want to drive home is I have never doxed a person in my entire life, and I have said that, and I'm standing by that, and I'm happy that you conceded that point.
I genuinely thought a totally different word meant something else because it's what was told to me, and he saw the emails.
So when I'm getting called a liar and then being triple attacked, and it's a dog, and it's a pylon, the only way that I can come forward with the truth is on my own terms, and I'm going to show him the emails.
But did you really think Like, when you said, when you, as you said, the web developer said it first, but you repeated it saying it was a non-functioning splash page, did you really think the whole website was non-functioning?
He was like, phase one, splash page, people will be able to like, you know, include some things, whatever, whatever, but we haven't built technology where you could actually pull it from Facebook.
So what we were trying to build was for Facebook to be able to talk to social autopsies so nobody had to film in these.
Yeah, it was an archive.
So when he said it was a splash, you know, it's a splash, you haven't built it, you don't have the money to build the entire thing out, I thought that was true.
I held that as a truth in my head for a full year.
For 18 months.
It's not like this was new and I was like, oh, what does this mean?
He emailed that to me in February of 2016.
So I just thought it was true.
I never questioned it because he's a web developer.
Would you question a web developer if they said this is what we're doing?
Before I forget, because this is a little bit off of the direct topic, I do want to address a lie Kenneth told me about me about maybe two or three days ago on Twitter.
you said that I made an autistic girl cry on YouTube, that I wasn't allowed to show you I made an autistic girl
cry.
That girl has come out and said that she's not autistic.
But, truthfully, you guys can do a different livestream where you can hash out all the, I said this, you said this, this was a lie, this was a confused statement, blah, blah, blah.
Part of the entire back-and-forth that you and I had, which is part of the reason why we're here, because you and I had back-and-forths on the internet, was involving you attacking my character saying I made an autistic girl cry.
This girl came out and said that she was absolutely upset that you used that against her.
No, I don't like the psychology of this because what you did is you made a girl cry in a live stream with a bunch of like six, five YouTubers and now you're going to use that girl as a pawn.
I won't do it.
Why can't she tell me what I did?
Because what I'm actually going to happen to do is saying what the girl said to me in private and I'm not comfortable doing it so we need to move on entirely.
I think the point of doing this thing had very little to do with all of the little fighting and who blocked who and all of that stuff, right?
The point of this was, what did Candace create, what were the intentions, and what came of it?
And I can tell you this, I think I have a sense of what the truth is on that.
That is my feeling.
The other stuff related to this, I think the stuff maybe Blair that you're responding to a little bit more, is just where I can't spend my life in that Part of this, you know what I mean?
We all have to defend ourselves in different ways.
So look, I don't know that we can get anywhere further with this right now, so we can either do the Q&A, there's a bunch of questions that people want to do, if we can do it kind of respectfully and clearly and cleanly, or we can just let it be.
But more than anything else, I really hope that the two of you realize that you guys, for all the raw feelings right now, you guys probably agree on 90% of stuff.
I, look, that may be true in terms, I honestly don't know what your political beliefs are, but in terms of how this was dealt with and how it could have been dealt with, I genuinely don't have respect for the situation whatsoever, and I hope, I don't think that, you know, we're gonna probably be in the same social circles, which is fine with you and fine with me.
This isn't what I want for my career, and I consider this, this will definitely be a low light.
Everything being equal, as I said, I feel like I got what I needed.
I know we're getting lost in a little bit of this stuff, and you guys can all continue to make videos or not make videos, and Candace can respond or not.
Blair can never talk about this again, or she can.
Everyone can live their life the way we want.
That's the beauty of freedom, okay?
So we're going to do a couple of questions here.
The first few were comments, actually, on Super Chat.
As a web developer, I have created front ends that allowed for rudimentary data collection, such as name and address, to build out all the layers and test the underlying code.
By the way, I don't, like I said, I've said a thousand times, totally naive, stepped into an internet culture that I want nothing to do with, and it had nothing to do with politics.
It just was meant to be something, and I've said often, it was something that was intended, that was for good, and it would have very quickly been used for evil.
It's just that, as we've already said, I didn't build something that could dox people.
And I was going to finish my statement before.
If those people got doxxed, of course, and if their lives, I don't think they were, because it's been a year we would have heard about it, if their lives were ruined because their address was put on the deep web of kiwi farms, of course I'm sorry that happened as a result of something that I was building and was never launched because for some reason people were able to access it on the back end.
Of course I'm sorry, but I was being asked to apologize for doxxing people and I never did it.
So of course I'm going to double down and say, no, I'm not apologizing for that because I didn't do that.
If all this was so easily cleared up, why she couldn't have made... I mean, honestly, if it was me, and again, I'm not you, but if it was me and there was all these lies about me or rumors about me, the first thing I would have done is made a video on my channel and said, This isn't true, this isn't true, this isn't true.
But instead, you blocked everyone asking questions, you blocked all criticism, and you drew it out until this day on the Rubin Report, which, honestly, I know it probably seems like, oh, we'll get, you know, it'll be heard more because of the Rubin Report, but in reality, people who are wondering about this will go directly to your channel.
So, I don't know, that would just be my, I'm not trying to be condescending, that would be my advice if anything ever happens like this, you should probably just do it on your channel.
Right, I genuinely did not think that this was going to be this long of a portion, especially for something that never launched, A. And B, I did not feel that... I don't like that you keep saying that you should have responded to the questions.
The videos were already made.
That's a huge insult to go out and make videos about someone before you contact them.
I didn't cut you off, please don't cut me off.
Okay?
To make videos about someone without context, I just think it's wrong.
I am not going to, as I said, the expression negotiate with terrorists and say this is what you have to do now to make amends because we made a bunch of videos about you.
I didn't like it, I thought it was nasty, and I dealt with it as I dealt with it.
You know, it's interesting to me, as the three of us do put videos up on YouTube for whatever we consider ourselves, you also do learn about this in different ways.
A year ago, if people had been attacking me the way they attack me now, I might have fought more.
I now see it as an exercise in futility, which I think is sort of where you're at, and perhaps your style would be to attack them back more, and plenty of people do that.