June 20, 2017 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
02:04:19
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| All right, people, the internet is about to crash and SJW heads are about to explode. | ||
| This is our second live stream of the day. | ||
| I've already put in two hours of work, people, but we're back and I am sitting here. | ||
| I can't believe it's a live human being. | ||
| Carl Benjamin, a.k.a. | ||
| Sargon of Akkad. | ||
| How you doing, man? | ||
| Tired. | ||
| Really, really tired. | ||
| The journey over was long and stressful, but it's good to be here. | ||
| You flew across the pond. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How did that go for you? | ||
| It was fine, actually. | ||
| The journey wasn't uncomfortable, it was just really long. | ||
| I had to get up really early and stay up really late. | ||
| Alright, let's start with first things first. | ||
| I think a lot of people, although you do show your face now pretty frequently and you do other shows and live streams and all that stuff, I don't think people are really used to seeing the human Carl. | ||
| They think of this This Sargon fella, are Carl and Sargon the same person? | ||
| We're going deep right off the top. | ||
| Yeah, I don't have a persona or anything. | ||
| Sargon was my gamer handle that I always used to use when I was playing video games with my friends. | ||
| I just used it to register on whatever websites I was using. | ||
| I registered my YouTube account about three years before I even thought about posting a video. | ||
| I never reconsidered changing or anything because I never thought anything was going to come of it. | ||
| If I thought that one day I'd be sat here talking about things, I probably would have just used my name. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But it just never occurred to me and now I'm here and now I'm stuck with the labels. | ||
| It's too late, you can't change a YouTube URL. | ||
| It's all right, I like the name, I like the historical figure, so it's fine, it's just not what I planned, because I didn't plan anything. | ||
| So we've discussed a little bit, you've been on twice before, once you really helped me out because we were in between studios, we did a little Google Hangout thing, you were a good man, and we've discussed some classical liberal stuff and a bunch of stuff that we're gonna get into, but for people that have no idea who you are, Why did you start making political videos? | ||
| I was disturbed by the amount of nonsense I saw from the regressive left in the media. | ||
| It was a lot less then than it was now, than it is now. | ||
| But even then, this was like three, probably four years ago now, where I was just, I was constantly just seeing this nonsense. | ||
| And it wasn't just the regressive left. | ||
| It was many things, but I was honestly just, At the point where I was thinking, OK, I can see what's happening. | ||
| I can see why I'm not happy with it. | ||
| And I have the choice to either do something or not do something. | ||
| And my conscience just wouldn't let me sleep. | ||
| I couldn't just do nothing. | ||
| And I never wanted to do any of this. | ||
| I don't want to be like a public figure. | ||
| I don't want to have a media presence. | ||
| I don't want any of that. | ||
| But I felt like I had to. | ||
| I had to do something. | ||
| Three years later, now here I am. | ||
| Yeah, so we'll get to some of the stuff that you were seeing that you didn't like. | ||
| What were your political leanings before all that? | ||
| Oh, I've always just considered myself a liberal. | ||
| Definitely not the American version of what a liberal is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| In Britain, you're talking about sort of The sort of Lockean, Thomas Paine sort of liberal. | ||
| You're not talking about the progressives who come from a fundamentally, as far as I can make out, because I'm not even sure they're that certain of their own beliefs. | ||
| It seems to me they have a set of goals in mind, but don't really know how they plan to achieve those goals through an ideological framework. | ||
| And so when they come out and advocate for things like affirmative action, you know, it's completely illiberal to advocate for just an end to equality. | ||
| Because, I mean, for a liberal to say that I want an equality of outcome is the antithesis of what liberalism is. | ||
| It's equality of opportunity. | ||
| And from equality of opportunity you are going to see an inequality of result. | ||
| And that's the point. | ||
| Because an equality of result means that someone somewhere isn't getting what they want. | ||
| They're being artificially restricted by someone else, whoever's setting the rules. | ||
| You should see a natural diversity of thought, opinion and outcome when you are operating in a liberal system. | ||
| So to artificially weight it is, well, Illiberal, and I didn't like it. | ||
| So when I was waking up out of a progressive coma, and I started just tweeting a few little things that I thought were wrong, and this is about three years ago, I'd say, suddenly the internet started all at once, Talk to Sargon. | ||
| You were really the first person that they said, this is the guy that's online talking about this stuff. | ||
| And then you had me on your show, which you had a much bigger audience than I did at the time. | ||
| It helped me get some of my base. | ||
| So first off, I thank you for that. | ||
| But did you realize that talking about basic classical liberal John Locke on liberty values was gonna be thought of as somehow controversial or something? | ||
| Because in an odd way, it is in some bizarre sense. | ||
| There's... how to put it? | ||
| I didn't think it was going to be controversial. | ||
| I honestly thought that I would get a lot of positive responses from the people who were doing these things, because they called themselves liberals. | ||
| And so I was like, well, why are you doing things that are going against the core values of liberalism? | ||
| And at the time, I wasn't even particularly well-read in liberalism. | ||
| I didn't really know very much about it. | ||
| But I knew the sort of outcome of liberalism, and I knew the principles, but I didn't know the intellectual history of it. | ||
| And so I've had to educate myself on that, obviously. | ||
| And I think that what progressives really need to ask themselves is, do they want equality of opportunity or do they want equality of outcome? | ||
| Because that is the core difference between liberalism and progressivism. | ||
| And I think that a lot of them think, a lot of people, I mean, I hear people saying, I'm a liberal progressive. | ||
| And it's like, what does that mean? | ||
| You know, and I think what the problem is, is they've got a certain set of overlapping magisteria, where they want things like tolerance. | ||
| That's a perfectly respectable thing. | ||
| And a liberal wants tolerance. | ||
| But tolerance for a liberal is the consequence of the principles that they're operating under. | ||
| Whereas for progressives, it's the goal of their principles. | ||
| So they are quite happy to, say, restrict someone's freedom to apply for a job, is a really classic one, in order to achieve what they consider to be a tolerant end. | ||
| But that, to me, is not a tolerant thing. | ||
| I mean, for example, the BBC at the moment, and for anyone who doesn't know, it's the state-run media corporation of Britain. | ||
| My taxpayer money goes to this. | ||
| My license money goes to this. | ||
| They actively discriminate against white people. | ||
| in hiring for their jobs and it's not all the jobs obviously | ||
| but they have certain jobs where they will literally say this is for and the | ||
| term in Britain is black and minority ethnic but it basically means non-white | ||
| for BAME only and it's like I'm sorry what on what planet do you think it's acceptable | ||
| to turn around and say you know what | ||
| you're the wrong race to apply for this job and things If it was for a job, say, in front of the cameras or something, maybe I could bend my principles enough to say, okay, fine, I can accept that. | ||
| But I mean, the example I'm talking about- What would be the purpose of that, just to be clear? | ||
| So you'd want, just so that there would be some sense of diversity on what we're actually seeing. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I actually- I can tell you're not thrilled with that concept. | ||
| No, I'm not, yeah. | ||
| I could at least accept it and say, well, OK, you know, I can understand your reasoning and I'm not so offended by it. | ||
| But this is for, like, a researcher behind the scenes. | ||
| And it's like, no, I'm sorry, there's no reason in my political lexicon that you can give that is acceptable. | ||
| I don't find that acceptable. | ||
| And so this is the question. | ||
| Do you want equality of outcome? | ||
| Do you want equality of opportunity? | ||
| And I want equality of opportunity, not outcome. | ||
| And the progressives want the opposite. | ||
| So you've obviously, in this 10 minutes or so here, have said nothing racist or bigoted or anything like that. | ||
| But there is a, because of the way that the progressives are using race, there's a racial connotation to all of this. | ||
| And I, what was it? | ||
| I think it was, was there an article written about both of us or something? | ||
| A tweet on something? | ||
| There are many hit pieces. | ||
| Where somebody was calling you a white nationalist or a white supremacist or something. | ||
| I wish I could remember the specific instance of it. | ||
| And I remember pushing back on it, of course. | ||
| But therein lies part of the problem that our education, I think for both of our countries, is so screwed up right now that when you say these sort of very obvious things about equality of opportunity versus outcome, which everyone should be on board if you truly care about equality, people think that's somehow a racist connotation or a racist idea. | ||
| This is something I've thought long and hard about. | ||
| So, for example, when they say, We want to have a job that's open only to say, I'm just going to use the terms white and black, but I mean non-white and white. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're only open to black people. | ||
| Then you ask them, OK, what's the rationale for that? | ||
| Well, black people are disadvantaged. | ||
| They're often very poor. | ||
| They come from difficult families. | ||
| And so, OK, well, why don't we just open that to people who are disadvantaged and poor? | ||
| That's something we can qualify very easily. | ||
| We can figure out who's poor by simply looking at their paychecks, looking at their monthly income. | ||
| So the issue is not actually the race, the issue is the financial situation of the person. | ||
| So why discriminate against the white people on the basis of their race, if the problem is that they're poor? | ||
| The problem isn't that they're poor, the problem is that they're white, and the other ones are the problem, you know, the favour in the progressive mind is to go on to the people who are black, purely because of the perceived disadvantages of I guess being black, which to me sounds like a racist thing to say. | ||
| Which is oddly prejudicial. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I don't look at a black person and think, well, you're probably disadvantaged, but that's them. | ||
| I mean, what I'm advocating for, I guess, maybe it's because it's outside of the paradigm, because what I'm advocating for is a racial, you know, it's not, I don't want their race to be a factor on which they are judged. | ||
| And yet these people can't seem to separate that from the situation that we're talking about. | ||
| And so if I'm saying, look, You should be judging people on maybe something that is more controllable or maybe something that is more relevant. | ||
| Like, I mean, financial situation is something that is genuinely relevant and it affects black people, white people, red people, whoever, you know. | ||
| If that becomes the category that you focus on, then you can help people without racial prejudice. | ||
| being a factor in your own decision-making. | ||
| And that's the thing. | ||
| Every time you discriminate in favor of someone on the basis of their race, you're also discriminating against other people against them on the basis of their race. | ||
| And that, to me, is what racism is. | ||
| So I don't want that. | ||
| But isn't the interesting piece of that is that I think the people that hold this ideology, they don't mind that kind of discrimination. | ||
| They think, actually, that that discrimination, they wouldn't call it discrimination, but they think that that discrimination is actually positive. | ||
| Because there's a certain set of them that think that the white man or whatever or the patriarchy should be punished. | ||
| Right. | ||
| This comes down to the problem, the root, I think the root problem of most ideologies and the sort of public conception of them is the redefinition of a certain term. | ||
| Almost every ideology, if you look at them, and you look at them in detail, they'll come down to a redefinition of a term. | ||
| For example, Freedom is one of these terms for classical liberals. | ||
| Many, many classical liberals define freedom... Libertarians always define it as freedom from, not freedom to. | ||
| But the way many classical liberals will Some at least will describe it as being, or it's what you consider to be something to be free from. | ||
| For example, poverty can well be considered an oppressive force. | ||
| You can measure the oppression of poverty. | ||
| There are many studies that show it decreases your IQ, decreases your lifespan, all these other, and decreases various opportunities. | ||
| It puts you in a lower class, and when you go into a lower class, You end up finding yourself with inherent disadvantages just because of your mannerisms and the way you speak. | ||
| I mean, for example, if you see someone like Francesca Ramsey, I'm sure a lot of people know who she is. | ||
| From MTV, yeah. | ||
| She's incredibly well spoken, incredibly well read. | ||
| She's an intelligent woman. | ||
| She's not lower class. | ||
| But if you take someone like, you can find almost anyone on LiveLeak, for example, one of these sort of videos that you see going around with people brawling. | ||
| None of those people will ever get a job on MTV. | ||
| And it's not because they're black, because MTV's happy to hire black people, it's because they're poor and they're lower class. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I can't remember what your question was, now I've got it. | |
| So from that, though, what are the basic classical liberal beliefs that you have? | ||
| What do you think sort of encompasses what the modern classical liberal believes? | ||
| Right, okay, so one of the, I mean, I personally want to see everyone treated As equals. | ||
| I mean, for me, what I interpret classical liberalism, the core principles and the ethos behind it is to create a brotherhood of man, effectively. | ||
| A system of peers and equals. | ||
| Because it came out of a time when there was an aristocracy. | ||
| And the problem was the aristocracy oppressing almost everyone else in society. | ||
| And I think this is the reason that I find The social justice war is so offensive because what they want to do is turn their minority status into power over you. | ||
| They want to turn themselves into a new aristocracy where on the basis of the fact that there aren't very many of them and they have a distinguishing quality between them, Then everyone else has to obey their rules. | ||
| And I'm sorry, that's not acceptable to me. | ||
| What has to happen is they have to obey the rules of the majority. | ||
| And if they can't put themselves in the rules of the majority, then I'm sorry, but we can't just remodel society for the whims of a small group of people, because that creates an aristocracy. | ||
| And that fundamentally is what classical liberalism is about, in my opinion. | ||
| So why did these ideas, which are hundreds of years old of classical liberalism, why did they get buried to the point that when I started waking up to this stuff that people were going, ah, you got to talk to Sargon of Akkad on YouTube and not, like, why wasn't there someone else, like a mainstream person that they could have been like, that's, this guy's been talking about that forever. | ||
| Instead, they're telling me to talk to you. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I mean, It could be that it's the water we swim in and so, you know, fish in water probably doesn't have a word for water, you know, that sort of principle. | ||
| It could well be that we are so subsumed in it we just take it for granted and we don't really realize the sort of creeping degradation of it until suddenly we're looking at racial quotas and racial discrimination in public organizations and things like this. | ||
| I mean, I honestly, I don't know why it's ended up this way. | ||
| I mean, there are so many problems. | ||
| I think that the... I mean, I imagine that many of them stem from the quality of universities at the moment. | ||
| Leaving the STEM fields aside, of course, there seems to be a nascent socialist revolution Brewing in our universities, and that to me is highly disturbing. | ||
| In the same way that an Islamist revolution is disturbing when it's brewing in the mosques. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, it's not all of them, it's some of them, and it's indoctrinating enough of them that it's becoming a real problem. | ||
| This is why we see, I mean, hundreds of Antifa members clad in black, all from the middle class, all university educated, all absolutely terrible at fighting each other. | ||
| And we see them in the streets and they feel justified. | ||
| They think this is all completely within their right to do this. | ||
| And they think they're going to create a better world at the end of it. | ||
| And the irony of it is you can't point to a socialist system that's successful. | ||
| That's ever worked. | ||
| There's always an excuse why that one didn't work. | ||
| That wasn't the real one. | ||
| That one wasn't the real one. | ||
| Do you think we're at a particularly strange precipice in the world right now where this battle between all of this postmodern stuff and cultural Marxism and SJW stuff versus those of us that are really You know, somewhere in the middle trying to explain what freedom is versus the authoritarians on the right. | ||
| Because of the internet, because of globalization, that actually the whole system of the world seems like it's in a precarious place at the moment. | ||
| Is that alarmist? | ||
| I think that we've come back to the cycle of history. | ||
| I mean, if you look back a hundred years ago, we're looking at the Russian Revolution. | ||
| It's not particularly different. | ||
| And you've got the alt-right and you've got the anti-far crew fighting in the streets. | ||
| This is something straight out of the road to serfdom. | ||
| Hey, it talks about how the Nazis and the communists fought in the streets of Germany until the Nazis eventually won. | ||
| And let's be honest with you, if you think it's going to come down to an actual fight between the alt-right and the anti-far socialists, who do you think is going to win that? | ||
| It's not going to be Antifa. | ||
| They're weak. | ||
| They're absolutely weak. | ||
| They don't know what they're doing. | ||
| I mean, they've got this fantasy conception of how they're going to bring in some glorious socialist revolution. | ||
| It's not going to happen. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's no strong foundation of an ideology there to build on. | ||
| There is a huge, deep, strong foundation. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And the worst part is... You think for those average people that are out there... Oh, not for the alt-right, no. | |
| For the Antifa... | ||
| Yeah, but you think those Antifa people really... I'm talking about the ones that are out there with the masks and the bats and everything. | ||
| You think they really have an understanding of what politically they're trying to do? | ||
| Oh, absolutely. | ||
| I mean, many of them are professors. | ||
| Like, you've got Eric Clanton, who was arrested. | ||
| People probably know him as the masked Antifa protester who hit some random chap over the head with a bike lock. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| That guy's a professor. | ||
| Or a lecturer at a university. | ||
| On his dating profile, he put his interest as being revolution. | ||
| It's like, dude, you are revolting against common sense. | ||
| That's all you're doing. | ||
| You're revolting against some poor kid who you assaulted with a bike lock. | ||
| This isn't a socialist revolution. | ||
| This is nonsense. | ||
| You know, it's you LARPing. | ||
| You wish. | ||
| I mean, this is the thing. | ||
| They go, well, we're out in the streets doing stuff. | ||
| And it's like, yeah, but the people who used to do that actually had problems. | ||
| You are, well, a champagne socialist. | ||
| You're on, what, $50,000 a year, if not more? | ||
| You know, you're not deprived. | ||
| You're not even working for other people. | ||
| Your problem is you hate the rich. | ||
| And your problem is you've got a guilty conscience because you're not one of the poor. | ||
| That's your problem. | ||
| So go and fucking deal with it. | ||
| Don't go around hitting other people because of it. | ||
| Honestly, these people piss me off. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, really, it's disgusting what they're doing. | ||
| Do you know what pisses me off, though, is when liberals say, oh, I'm OK with socialism. | ||
| No, you're not. | ||
| If you're OK with socialism, you're not a liberal, or you don't understand socialism. | ||
| I mean, there are non-Marxist conceptions of socialism, but you won't be able to find any of them now. | ||
| It's all Marxian theology, well, theology seems a bit cruel, but theory behind it. | ||
| You have to be opposed to that. | ||
| And if you're not opposed to that, you're not a liberal. | ||
| You don't know what you're talking about. | ||
| My guest, which we're airing tomorrow, but we taped yesterday, was Peter Boghossian, who you might know. | ||
| I know the name. | ||
| He's a philosophy professor up at Portland State University. | ||
| Great guy. | ||
| Oh, is he got a beard? | ||
| He doesn't have a beard. | ||
| No, I'm thinking of another guy. | ||
| Not since I've known him. | ||
| He had quite wavy hair and a nice beard. | ||
| A philosophy professor with a beard. | ||
| You were making a pretty fair... He was on your show. | ||
| Yeah, he's been on my show. | ||
| I'll find the name another time. | ||
| Well, Peter called it a secular religion, which is why you're calling it a theology. | ||
| It's becoming as radicalized as a religion. | ||
| With first sin and all that. | ||
| It shares a lot of the same properties, that's why. | ||
| It's all-encompassing, it's a complete worldview. | ||
| And the whole worldview has to be in place for it to be working. | ||
| You can't... I mean, like, with liberalism, it's... I mean, Hayek made this point really, really clear in the Road to Serfdom. | ||
| I'm sorry, you're thinking about Brett Weinstein, I think, from Evergreen State. | ||
| No, no, no, that's a different chap. | ||
| But anyway, Haig made this point really clear. | ||
| He said, look, you can afford some social programs, you know, that's an acceptable thing to do, as long as they're universal, as long as they adhere to the principles of individualism. | ||
| But you can't do that in a system that is all-encompassing. | ||
| And I don't want to say the word totalitarian, but I can't think of a better way of describing it. | ||
| It requires the totality of all of your beliefs to fall in line. | ||
| So this is why these people seem like cookie cutters. | ||
| Whereas when you go to someone who consider themselves to come out of this sort of English liberal tradition, they've often got very different opinions on certain subjects and align on the sort of core beliefs. | ||
| But these people don't. | ||
| And they say, oh, we disagree. | ||
| And they're, OK, well, on what point do you disagree? | ||
| And it's some tiny fringe disagreement at the very margins of the ideology. | ||
| But almost everything else is complete, and it's almost a religion. | ||
| You know it's so interesting you talk about the cookie cutter mentality and we know that they love purging people with original thoughts and getting rid of all their real individuals and they love diversity but not diversity of thought. | ||
| And even as you were saying that I was thinking for all the videos that I've watched of yours and for as well as I think I know what you think. | ||
| Off the top of my head I don't know if you're even pro-choice or what you think about the death penalty. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| And we probably differ on that. | ||
| I am as well actually. | ||
| It's a necessary evil to me. | ||
| I'm pro-choice begrudgingly. | ||
| I think it's a horrible choice, but I think ultimately that- I am as well, actually. | ||
| It's a necessary evil to me. | ||
| It's a necessary evil, and I'm against the death penalty. | ||
| I am as well, because it doesn't work. | ||
| But I think you can make strong, logical arguments against both of those. | ||
| You absolutely could. | ||
| I mean, like, a counterargument would be, well, why should we have someone who has been convicted and we can be sure of the evidence, why should we hold them at taxpayer expense? | ||
| What's the point? | ||
| You know, do we want to run the risk of them actually leaving jail after brutally murdering some children or something? | ||
| it's hard to argue against that. You then have to make a sort of | ||
| moral humanist argument, say well is it right to ever actually take a life? | ||
| What if we're wrong? There's always got to be that room for doubt | ||
| and there's always got to be the room to say well | ||
| tomorrow some evidence might come up that they were actually innocent. We were | ||
| completely wrong for whatever reason and so we should | ||
| we should always keep that as an option open. But a pragmatist could say yeah well chances are... | ||
| Isn't that the beauty though of really caring about a political | ||
| philosophy or any philosophy? | ||
| more than a party or more than a politician or any of that, in that whatever your answer had been there, I think you could have made as strong classical liberal or liberal arguments as I could have made the other way. | ||
| We happen to agree on both of those things, but I'm sure we can find something that would work. | ||
| Yeah, of course, but I think the important thing is the... it's like the platform on which to discuss it. | ||
| It's not... | ||
| It doesn't require everyone to agree on everything. | ||
| This is why these totalitarian ideologies, they have to purge the wrong thinkers. | ||
| Liberalism has got quite a narrow focus as its base. | ||
| Universal rights, the idea of freedom of man, the brotherhood of man, all that sort of thing. | ||
| It's quite a narrow column that most people will agree with. | ||
| Not many people will turn around and say, you know what, I actually think we should have an aristocracy. | ||
| I actually think that maybe some people shouldn't have the same rights as white people or something like that. | ||
| It's very hard to find someone like that. | ||
| So it's easy for most people to agree with this core and then branch off into various strains. | ||
| Whereas socialism is effectively the reverse. | ||
| It's very, very, very demanding that you believe all of these things because all of these ideas prop one another up. | ||
| You know, if you take out one, like, you know, core piece of it, then it affects all of these other ones that are effectively holding the whole thing together. | ||
| And, yeah, I mean, this is why when someone starts saying, well, actually, I'm not sure about this, like, purge the wrong thinker. | ||
| I mean, you see it happening with Lacey Green and the social justice warriors now. | ||
| It's terrifying. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I like to think that if tomorrow I turned around and said, you know what, I think I might actually be a conservative. | ||
| I think I might actually think that we should live in what is essentially a Christian-controlled society, because obviously secularism is another pillar of it. | ||
| I mean, at least I think I would be able to have the conversation with people. | ||
| But I mean, maybe I'd be thrown out of the club, who knows? | ||
| I get thrown out of a lot of clubs for wrong things. | ||
| I like your metaphor there, because I almost see it as it's like liberalism at its roots is sort of a giant pot with a lot of fertile ground, and because of that, you're gonna grow out a lot of different ideas, and sort of competing ideas that hopefully the best ones will rise to the top and all that, where progressivism is actually a very small pot, so you don't have room to grow out a lot of competing ideas, because they gotta Yeah, it'll break the pot. | ||
| You know, the pot will crack when the roots start coming out of it. | ||
| And so, yeah, they have to regularly weed themselves out. | ||
| You know, weed out the wrong thinkers, or the wrong growers, or however you want to fit it into the metaphor. | ||
| So, I know, we could do, we could literally do five hours of just definitions, and all of, and ideas. | ||
| Actually, one thing, on the subject of definitions, there is one important thing. | ||
| Practically all of these ideologies think that they're advocating for freedom. | ||
| That's the fundamental principle. | ||
| You can go back and read any of the socialists. | ||
| A hundred years ago, all of the prominent intellectuals that we generally think well of now were socialists. | ||
| They considered themselves socialists. | ||
| I mean, you go like Bertrand Russell or Oscar Wilde or someone like that. | ||
| They wrote good socialist literature. | ||
| And if you go back and read it now, I mean, Bertrand Russell wrote a book called Proposed Roads to Freedom. | ||
| The purpose of socialism in their minds is freedom. | ||
| The problem is, is it relies on It relies on there being an excess of wealth. | ||
| And unfortunately, socialism doesn't produce an excess of wealth. | ||
| We're not in a position where we're going to end up with a classless, stateless society. | ||
| It's not going to happen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, what they think is that socialism... Well, it might happen, but it's going to be after some great war or... No, no, no. | |
| It won't be after a great war. | ||
| That'll actually set the clock back. | ||
| What will happen is, when we've finally mechanized practically everything in the world, when man no longer has to labor, then we will have socialism. | ||
| Until then, it's not going to happen. | ||
| Because while a man is making things with the fruit of his own hands, he needs to be able to own the product of his own labour. | ||
| And this comes back to Locke's principle of self-ownership. | ||
| If you don't own yourself, someone else does. | ||
| And this is why private property is important. | ||
| Private property will only go away when there's no value in owning private property. | ||
| And there'll only be no value in owning private property when there is no scarcity. | ||
| And when there is no scarcity, it won't matter. | ||
| It just simply won't matter. | ||
| No one will even think about private property. | ||
| Because no one will work. | ||
| And that's the only time that socialism is ever going to work, and we're nowhere near it, so they should shut up and go home. | ||
| So I think what you're saying is that the socialists should all be about robots taking over and everything, because... Oh yeah, they should. | ||
| I mean, they probably are. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's a very scary thought, but... No, well, I don't think it's that terrifying, to be honest. | |
| I mean, I don't see any problem with, like, state ownership of The means of production in principle, the problem is the necessary requirement to take away private ownership from everyone else. | ||
| I mean, I don't mind if, like tomorrow, the government wanted to open up a giant robotics factory where you could go down and you could, and it would literally just be a huge assembly line of robots producing, I mean, you have a screen, you press, I want a new car or something, you pay however much the car costs, and then however long it takes to build, and then you've got the car made from the state. | ||
| It could well be a lot cheaper. | ||
| I don't mind that at all. | ||
| There's nothing inherently anti-individualistic about it. | ||
| Well, wouldn't that eliminate competition? | ||
| Well, not necessarily, because it might be that people create things that can't be created by this automated process or whatever. | ||
| But the fact that they then as well need to take away your ability to own your own means of production. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| That's when the oppression comes in. | ||
| And because eventually you end up losing the ownership of your own labour. | ||
| You end up ownership of yourself. | ||
| It's an interesting concession you're making. | ||
| In and of itself, you're not against this. | ||
| It's what the repercussions would be, sort of. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| It's what comes along with it. | ||
| In and of itself, it doesn't infringe my rights at all. | ||
| You know, it's not a problem. | ||
| In fact, I get some sort of cheaper product out of it, probably. | ||
| So it's not necessarily a problem, but it's everything that comes with it that I can't, I just have to object to. | ||
| Because ultimately, I think Hayek was right when he said, this will lead to a new serfdom. | ||
| And if you look at any communist regime, well, I say communist, but they were actually socialist regimes, state socialist regimes. | ||
| They, I mean, they would force you to work. | ||
| You didn't have the option. | ||
| Like, for example, my wife is a housewife. | ||
| She doesn't have to work. | ||
| That wouldn't be acceptable in a socialist regime. | ||
| Everyone has to work. | ||
| But thankfully, thanks to capitalism, we don't have to. | ||
| You know, because I own the means of my own production and I'm successful enough that I can actually make my wife a lady of leisure to look after my children. | ||
| Yeah, that's pretty sweet. | ||
| Like a good patriarch. | ||
| Pretty, yeah, like a real white supremacist, patriarchal, blah, blah, blah. | ||
| But that's actually a great segue to where I wanted to go with this, which is that, so I think we've shown for the people that don't know you, you have a command of the issues, you know what you're talking about. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I try to, yeah. | |
| What's interesting is so you're in this YouTube community that I'm obviously in as well and you've met we just talked briefly before we sat down but you mentioned something interesting about how it's like for us that For those of us that have been talking about this stuff where you agree with this or not But those of us that have been talking about politics on YouTube in our sort of circles that we're doing it they're constantly expanding and changing and all that yeah that we're refining our ideas and And I love this concept because it seems to me that internet culture is bubbling out now into mainstream culture and now there's this group of people online that I think we're a part of that have helped refine some ideas so that people that are not part of it can take those ideas and hopefully run for office or just put them into their own lives however they do. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I want to give full credit to all of the people in all of the ideological spheres that I oppose and oppose to me. | ||
| They are absolutely intellectual prize fighters. | ||
| They are 100% I mean, I don't want to say experts, because that's a bit too far, but they are very, very well versed in their ideological sphere. | ||
| You know, the libertarians, the socialists, the anarchists, all of these people, and even the alt-right, many of them are really well read in their particular narrow genre, and they are very Comprehensively read, sometimes. | ||
| And they put forward their arguments very, very well. | ||
| And it is like a brawl down on the shop floor, as it were. | ||
| And if it wasn't for them, and we make each other sharper, there's no doubt about it. | ||
| And so there's definitely a lot to be said for the grand argument that's going on on YouTube. | ||
| There's a term called the long march through the institutions that the alt-rights will tell you the Marxists have done through the universities. | ||
| And it's hard to really argue with this. | ||
| I mean, whether it was a coordinated thing or not is obviously up for debate. | ||
| But it's hard to argue that they've done this because they literally are almost in command of these universities. | ||
| I mean, like, what was Brett Weinstein's university? | ||
| Evergreen State. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was it. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| They've taken over. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| As I mentioned to Tim Pool earlier, it's like, if this ideology, if this postmodern leftism, SJW thing, if it really worked, shouldn't that university, which was the most, arguably the most leftist campus in America, Brett Weinstein, a far left, as he described himself, a deeply progressive person, who I now know and like very much, by the way. | ||
| Oh, he's a lovely guy. | ||
| Shouldn't that place have been the most harmonious, Functional, ideologically pure, wonderful Shangri-La of leftism. | ||
| And instead, it's an intolerant, psychotic bin of lunacy. | ||
| And I love that it all comes from him saying, I'm not going to let you discriminate against me on the basis of my race. | ||
| Hands down, applaud the guy for standing up for himself. | ||
| Because when you have a mob of ideologically convicted bullies, You know, and these people will commit violence. | ||
| I mean, we've seen it so many times. | ||
| They will start the violence. | ||
| For him to then stand up to them in the flesh, you know, when they're bearing down on him, saying, look, I want a dialectic and not a debate, that's incredibly brave. | ||
| I mean, honestly, I don't, I mean, a lot of people, I can see why a lot of people Just lower their heads and carry on with their lives because it's a lot easier if you do. | ||
| But that's the point. | ||
| That's the reason they win. | ||
| It's because of this. | ||
| We need people who do not agree with them to say they don't agree with them. | ||
| And this is what I'm saying. | ||
| This is what actually needs to happen. | ||
| We need to begin our long march through the institutions. | ||
| If you're in university at the moment and you're concerned with the progression of Marxist ideologies and you're a liberal and you want to promote these values, you have to stay in the university. | ||
| I know you might be thinking, well, I'm doing my degree in whatever. | ||
| I'm going to get out. | ||
| I'm going to make a lot of money. | ||
| Well, that's you actually abdicating your responsibilities to the next generation. | ||
| I hate to say it. | ||
| It's so interesting. | ||
| You're going to have to stay there. | ||
| Yeah, when I go to college campuses, they ask me that a lot. | ||
| I'll get it. | ||
| The Q&A at the end, there'll be kids that'll go, you know, I see all this stuff. | ||
| My professor doesn't want me to say this gender pronoun or doesn't believe in gender at all or just some other crazy nonsense. | ||
| And they'll say, but you know what? | ||
| I got to get out of here with a degree. | ||
| And I always say, look, I don't envy your position and I don't begrudge you whatever you have to do in your own personal life to graduate and hopefully be a productive member of society. | ||
| But the problem is, once they get you bowing, that hand will only get stronger. | ||
| I think that's slightly different to what I meant. | ||
| I mean, like, if you're a student and you're doing a degree, don't be a hero. | ||
| You know, get your degree. | ||
| You're paying for it. | ||
| OK, so we're talking about two different sets of people here. | ||
| You're paying for it. | ||
| So students, you're OK. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Get your degree, and if you can't stand to be in there, get out. | ||
| But if you're concerned about the progress of this ideology, and you're thinking, well, you know, if you've finished like a PhD or whatever, and you're thinking, well, I could become a professor, or I could enter the private market and earn lots of money, Well, you've got the choice. | ||
| Is earning lots of money more important to you than the intellectual tradition you're going to bequeath to your students if you were to become a professor? | ||
| There's a lot of people who talk down about people who teach. | ||
| There's those who do can, those who don't teach. | ||
| It's sad, really, because it disincentivises people. | ||
| There's nothing wrong with spreading good ideas, ideas that are genuinely not bigoted and do not result in bigotry. | ||
| And these people whose ideas do result in bigotry have taken over the shop. | ||
| You've got to do something about it. | ||
| And it's up to you. | ||
| No one else is going to do it. | ||
| If it's not you, who? | ||
| And if not now, when? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How much more are you going to let this carry on? | ||
| Honestly, I mean this to anyone watching. | ||
| If you're in university and you think you've got the smarts to get to the top, do it. | ||
| Stay there. | ||
| Do it. | ||
| Write some books. | ||
| You can still get rich. | ||
| Write some books. | ||
| Become successful. | ||
| You've got to stand your ground. | ||
| And that means taking a position and advancing yourself against the hate mob. | ||
| How much stronger do you think the ideas that we're talking about are now than they were three years ago? | ||
| Even just the phrase classical liberalism, which was never thrown around in America two years ago. | ||
| Now I hear it all the time. | ||
| Oh, in the sphere of public debate, they're getting thrashed. | ||
| Absolutely thrashed. | ||
| For example, all the universities, like Missouri University, they've had to start cutting programs. | ||
| The market is killing them off, as it should. | ||
| I can't imagine what's going to happen to Evergreen in the next round of enrollments, but I imagine the market's going to take its toll on them too. | ||
| And it's a state school where they have all, first off, they didn't even hit, from what I understand, they didn't even hit the numbers of enrollees that they had to last year to get funding. | ||
| I can't swear to that 100%. | ||
| That's what someone told me. | ||
| But either way, they have such chaos there right now, there's many strong arguments you could make for cutting funding altogether. | ||
| The administration didn't back the faculty, and now they have the inmates running the asylums. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| This deference to the students is baffling to me. | ||
| I can't. | ||
| I mean, when I went to university, I would never have imagined such a thing would happen, but that was, like, almost, well, about 15 years ago now, so things have clearly changed. | ||
| What did you study? | ||
| Computer science, and I hated it. | ||
| I hated every second of it. | ||
| I didn't want to do it, and I only did it because I could use computers, and it was easy to me, but it was tremendously boring, and I dropped out in the second year, because I hated it. | ||
| I'd never even considered doing, like, philosophy or political science or anything, because I come from a My parents come from a working-class background, and they worked up to the middle class, and they were like, you get something vocational, you know, and, you know, computer science seemed vocational, but it was just tremendously boring, and I wish I'd never... I wish I'd gone for something in the liberal arts, to be honest. | ||
| It was much, much more my sort of thing. | ||
| Well, I guess it worked. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It worked. | |
| You're making some sense. | ||
| You're doing liberal arts in real life now. | ||
| I am, yeah. | ||
| I might actually go back to university just to get the degree, just to shut people up, to say, oh, you don't have a degree in this. | ||
| Well, no, I don't. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But, you know, look at the people who do have degrees in this now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Some of them aren't the best. | ||
| No, some of the degrees make no sense, and then they wonder why they can't get jobs. | ||
| Let's talk a little bit about internet culture, because that's the other piece of this that I think most of our audiences really understand, but a lot of it gets lost in the translation when it bubbles up to mainstream. | ||
| For me, for example, I do a bit of trolling online. | ||
| Not direct trolling, but I mean, I fight a little bit online when it's necessary. | ||
| When this thing happened to me with Mother Jones, I went on an absolute assault. | ||
| That's not trolling. | ||
| But occasionally I'll fight with this person because it's how you make the conversation happen. | ||
| But I try to keep it sort of within a certain boundary of whatever. | ||
| You definitely have dove in to the troll world, the pepe, the memes, all of that stuff. | ||
| I have literally never seen you once tweet something that I thought was truly offensive, and certainly not bigoted or any of that stuff. | ||
| You're using the very tools they've used against us on them, in effect. | ||
| And I think it's pretty great. | ||
| Well, this is the great thing about the Internet. | ||
| The Internet is hilarious, but the problem is that many The problem, I think, is pretensions, because a lot of people tend to hold, especially well-educated people, hold a lot of pretensions around themselves. | ||
| And I always find this baffling, because it's like, well, if you're accomplished and you're intellectual and you've achieved all of these things, why do you need to be pretentious? | ||
| Why do you need to suggest that, oh, oh, someone has said something I don't like, and therefore I will never talk to that person? | ||
| So what if they did? | ||
| So what if they did? | ||
| It doesn't take away your confidence. | ||
| Or then they retweet it to show what a victim they are. | ||
| When I retweet them, it's like to mock these idiots. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| But this is about your ego. | ||
| This is about your ego. | ||
| And honestly, this is essentially Rousseau's conception of the bourgeoisie. | ||
| This is about wanting to be seen and wanting to have status. | ||
| And I hate the bourgeoisie. | ||
| They're so pretentious. | ||
| And what I find hilarious is when these bourgeois socialists will turn around and say, oh, well, I'm doing it for the people, for the working class. | ||
| It's like, you hate the working class, because they're the trolls on Twitter. | ||
| You can't stand. | ||
| Don't even talk to me about doing anything for the working class. | ||
| Do not even pretend. | ||
| But one thing that people forget is that It's the definition of the term trolling. | ||
| Because when the internet was new, when I was logging on in a 28k modem when I was 16 or something. | ||
| Was it in color at that time? | ||
| The whole definition of trolling, the definition has been changed by social justice activists to mean sending someone a threat or hate or something like that. | ||
| That's not trolling, that's just abuse. | ||
| And you shouldn't do that because A, wrong to do it. | ||
| B, it's totally unproductive and it creates the victim narrative that they're looking for. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because they can use the victim narrative as a form of currency in order to buy sympathy from other people and buy favours from them. | ||
| Whereas the person sending that will only be ever seen as a villain. | ||
| Don't do it. | ||
| I'd like to appeal on a moral level and say, look, it's wrong to do it. | ||
| How do they feel? | ||
| But that doesn't change people's minds. | ||
| So think of it from your own personal self-interest. | ||
| You don't gain anything from doing it. | ||
| They believe victimhood is virtue and you're giving them virtue on a silver platter. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Precisely. | ||
| You're actually setting them up to succeed and you're setting yourself up to fail. | ||
| But that's not what trolling actually is, or at least it wasn't in the early days of the internet. | ||
| Trolling someone was basically putting out bait, giving them enough rope with which to hang themselves, and let themselves get worked up over... | ||
| Not really anything. | ||
| You know, and that was the thing. | ||
| That was the trick. | ||
| I mean, like, um, the best example I can think of, actually, is, um, it happened to me today. | ||
| I'd, oh, I think it was yesterday, I tweeted out, look, if, trolling is an art. | ||
| And that was always the phrase that went with it. | ||
| Trolling is an art. | ||
| It's, it's, it's basically like intellectual satire, you know? | ||
| And, uh, trolling is an art. | ||
| If you don't, if you don't, uh, understand that, you don't understand trolling. | ||
| And then someone tweeted at me saying, trolling is a art. | ||
| As in, he left off the A at the end. | ||
| Any Grammar Nazis are going to jump on that. | ||
| And that's the point. | ||
| That's the bait. | ||
| It's not offensive. | ||
| It's not insulting. | ||
| It's about testing your capacity to divine the meaning from what is being said. | ||
| And if you can't draw out the meaning from it, then that person can have a laugh at your expense, because you just got it wrong. | ||
| It's so interesting. | ||
| I don't know that I've ever thought of it so cleanly, actually, for as much as I know about this. | ||
| But, you know, I enjoy the trolls for the most part. | ||
| Especially the ones that are being fine. | ||
| The actual trolls. | ||
| Right, the trolls. | ||
| Now, there's the other group who are just the evil people who are just writing, go fuck yourself all day long. | ||
| So I have no problem at this point muting and blocking those people. | ||
| You're just adding nothing but evil. | ||
| They're venting their spleen. | ||
| That's what they're doing. | ||
| They're angry for some reason. | ||
| They just want to let off some steam. | ||
| And OK, well fine, but I don't... | ||
| I don't need to read it or listen to it, but I don't stop them from doing it. | ||
| But the trolls, there are times where I'll tweet something and someone will turn it on me, or mock something I did, and I'm like, man, I wish I'd thought of that. | ||
| That was good. | ||
| And I've even, when I've done public events, I've talked to them about Pepe and Harambe and all that, and I'll be like, I know you all have secret accounts, and I can see it in everyone's face, they all have their secret Pepe accounts and all that stuff. | ||
| But Pepe is probably the best example of this, right? | ||
| Of something that meant nothing. | ||
| Yeah, it meant anything. | ||
| And yet affected the presidential election in America. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, yeah, I mean... It meant anything is a better way to describe it. | |
| The great thing about Pepe is... Pepe the green frog for people who don't know. | ||
| Imagine anyone watching this doesn't know. | ||
| The great thing is... It's almost like the life cycle of the meme, where it starts with... I think... | ||
| I don't want to describe this inaccurately, but it's hard to describe it with any accuracy. | ||
| If you look at the earliest ones, it's all Pepe looking sad and dejected and on the outside of anything that's going on. | ||
| And it was the sad frog meme feels bad man. | ||
| And now... | ||
| If you look at it, it's all the sort of like staring at you knowingly with a little smile. | ||
| It's the, I don't give a damn about your conceits meme. | ||
| You know, and this can be applied to anything. | ||
| I mean, you'll find, you know, for every Pepe of Adolf Hitler you find, you find a Pepe of... | ||
| you know, a Jewish Pepe, or you know, whatever. | ||
| It's anything, and it can be applied to anything. | ||
| You know, which is why when... | ||
| Do you have that ultra-rare Pepe that's made out of... | ||
| Oh yeah, but don't say anything. | ||
| Somebody sent me one of those, I'm very excited about that. | ||
| Because someone will want it, and I'm not giving it away. | ||
| It's so stupid! | ||
| It is! | ||
| It's just stupidity. | ||
| And so when like, what was her name, Hillary Clinton, is complaining about a green frog meme to the entire world. | ||
| Is that the ultimate trolling of all time? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes! | |
| They got Hillary Clinton to address this. | ||
| So at the same time while her campaign is colluding with the DNC to destroy Bernie, She literally made the Pepes and the Harambes and... She legitimized them. | ||
| She legitimized them. | ||
| So she legitimized the movement that she apparently hated, or was this hate movement, while at the same time colluding to destroy the other guy that was running for... Yeah, it's just absolutely ridiculous. | ||
| The problem is it's entirely satirical. | ||
| It's entirely ironic. | ||
| It's entirely satirical. | ||
| Free Kekistan. | ||
| I want to get to Kekistan. | ||
| I'm glad you mentioned that. | ||
| But that's the point. | ||
| It's not something you can rebut. | ||
| The point is to get you to bite. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And Hillary bit. | ||
| And it's like, Hillary, all you can do when someone's mocking you, all you can do is go, fair enough, and ignore it. | ||
| That's all you can do. | ||
| There is no other saving grace. | ||
| You can't argue against them. | ||
| You can't give them what they want, which is attention. | ||
| And this, again, it comes back to the very earliest days of the internet. | ||
| Don't feed the trolls. | ||
| That's the only way to beat a troll. | ||
| They're looking for you to bite. | ||
| And if you bite, then they'll reel you in. | ||
| If you ignore them, they'll go and search somewhere else for a bite. | ||
| Do you think it really shows how patently out of touch she was and the campaign? | ||
| That she obviously had no idea what Pepe was, but someone from the campaign, you know, the focus group was like, we've been thinking about this, Hillary, and we need to really put a nail in the coffin of these people, and what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about Pepe. | ||
| And then she just went up, you know, and then she went up there with a prepared speech and talked about it. | ||
| And it just showed the archaic machinery of drivel that these campaigns have become. | ||
| Well, I think, actually, I think it's that they just don't understand the internet. | ||
| Because, I mean, they're older, you know, these people are older, they're what we would call newbies. | ||
| But Trump's campaign did get it, though, because they did things that were much more effective in that regard. | ||
| Yeah, well, where else was Trump going to get support from? | ||
| He wasn't going to get it from the MSN, was he? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, but retweeting a Pepe of him, you know, on the podium? | ||
| Genius. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| All right, genius. | ||
| Let's talk about Kekistan because you mentioned Kekistan. | ||
| I am a supporter of Kekistan and the Kekistani people. | ||
| I think they deserve freedom. | ||
| They deserve their own land. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I think they're good people who have been unfairly maligned. | ||
| I am a great supporter of theirs. | ||
| I will raise funds. | ||
| Anything that I can do for the people of Kekistan, who I'm sure are commenting right right this very second on this video. | ||
| Tell me about the good people in Kyrgyzstan and their desire and need and just cause. | ||
| Yeah, so Kyrgyzstan, to be blunt, is a parody of identity politics. | ||
| And this... | ||
| Wait, everything I just said, that was just from a parody? | ||
| I'm afraid so. | ||
| If you didn't know, now I hate to break it to you. | ||
| But yeah, it's a parody of identity politics because all of these groups, and it's not just on the left, it's also on the right. | ||
| The alt-right are an identitarian movement. | ||
| Um, classical liberalism is not an identitarian movement. | ||
| And it's hard to fight against identity politics. | ||
| Especially when the premise that the left comes with is that white people cannot have an identity. | ||
| And, I mean, I don't want to see white identitarianism rise. | ||
| You know, I don't like identitarianism of any stripe. | ||
| And I don't want to see white people suddenly saying, well, because we're white, we get X. Because you're not white, you get Y. Just the reverse of the social justice where I was going, well, because you're not white, you get X. And because you're white, you get Y. I don't want that at all. | ||
| That's not equality to me. | ||
| That's, in fact, the antithesis. | ||
| That's, again, creating a new form of aristocracy. | ||
| So I'm completely against the idea. | ||
| And it's hard to fight unless you satirise it. | ||
| And suddenly, if you've got an identity called, say, a Kekasani, who's an oppressed shit poster on the internet, who's always getting banned from Twitter or, you know, blocked from comment sections, and this now, that's a form of oppression. | ||
| And how is it not oppression? | ||
| What did you do? | ||
| I posted a joke. | ||
| Well, we're going to censor you for that joke. | ||
| Well, now I am actually being oppressed. | ||
| I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a very A very mild form of oppression. | ||
| But it's high-level trolling. | ||
| It is high-level. | ||
| It's very technically oppression. | ||
| And so now I have a victim identity. | ||
| Now I am a victimized class. | ||
| Now I deserve to buy into all of your identity politics. | ||
| And the best thing about it is that every identitarian movement hates it. | ||
| I mean, obviously the social justice warriors think it's racist neo-Nazi stuff, but the funny thing is when Richard Spencer tweeted out hashtag free Kekistan, his followers went nuts against him. | ||
| They were like, no, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. | ||
| They were just, I mean, it was just like, no, no, this is cancer. | ||
| You can't do this. | ||
| Take this back. | ||
| Delete this. | ||
| You have to stop this. | ||
| Perfect. | ||
| What was the reasoning there? | ||
| Because his followers understood it more than him? | ||
| Like his followers understood... Oh, I think they completely understand that it undermines identity politics. | ||
| Because that's the point of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Do you think if he was sitting here with us, do you think he would admit that he's playing identity politics? | ||
| Oh yeah, absolutely. | ||
| I think he's well aware of that. | ||
| I've seen short interviews with him where he's saying he wants a white identitarian movement in order to compete with the left. | ||
| And I don't want any identitarian movements. | ||
| I'm tired of them. | ||
| I think they all need to basically be expunged. | ||
| No, I'm sorry, you saying I'm white therefore, I'm black therefore, I'm gay therefore, I'm trans therefore, it's not an argument. | ||
| Basically, I'd say, but it's just not an argument. | ||
| So you're saying you just want to be judged on the things that you think? | ||
| Is that what you're telling me? | ||
| That you don't want to be judged as a bearded person? | ||
| I believe there was a famous racist who said, judge a man on the content of his character and not the color of his skin. | ||
| And I mean, that guy's a tremendous racist. | ||
| Should be fully, fully exposed for the racist he is. | ||
| But I'm afraid I do agree with that point. | ||
| With that one point? | ||
| Yeah, that one point. | ||
| Everyone makes one good point. | ||
| Exactly, exactly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right, all right. | |
| We got about 15 minutes left before the Q&A, so let's just knock out some political things kind of quickly. | ||
| Give me your basic feelings on Trump, because I've seen some people say, well, Sargon's not, he's not attacking Trump enough. | ||
| And people criticize me. | ||
| You're not attacking Trump enough. | ||
| As if there aren't enough outlets to- Well, that's exactly my feeling on it. | ||
| I mean, you know, I don't really like Trump's politics, and I never have, but the thing is, it must be obvious to everyone that there is a great deal of pressure built up at the bottom of our societies. | ||
| As in, the poorest, the least able to actively defend themselves in the public sphere, are being actively marginalised by the left, the left intelligentsia. | ||
| The academics, the liberal elites, and the media. | ||
| These people have been, and I'm going to use the term, and I mean it literally, oppressing the sort of, you know, white, middle America, like, you know, lower class, middle, sort of, I don't know, whatever you call the center of America these days. | ||
| I'm not from America, I don't know. | ||
| The middle. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The flyover states. | ||
| Yeah, it's no surprise that it's the coastal elites that are in the blue and the center that's in the red. | ||
| And it's very much the same in Britain. | ||
| I mean, not with Trump, obviously, but with Brexit. | ||
| It was a revolt by the English working class against the British elite class, who would just do exactly the same as they do in America and call them racists. | ||
| How dare you advocate for your own interests? | ||
| That's a racist thing to do. | ||
| And they're only doing that because their own interests aren't threatened either. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| If we were bringing over... Not yet, anyway. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Not yet. | ||
| But if we were bringing over millions of liberal journalists from other countries, they'd be the first people complaining. | ||
| They'd be saying, well, what do you mean? | ||
| I can't get a job writing at The Guardian because they've hired a dozen people who barely speak English from a foreign country. | ||
| We need to cut down immigration because they're not being threatened by it and they're not affected by it because they're in their little gated community somewhere else that they give a damn. | ||
| They're not seeing their salaries go down. | ||
| They're not seeing themselves impoverished. | ||
| They don't care. | ||
| It's the most selfish goddamn thing in the world. | ||
| You know, you're so right. | ||
| I'll just give you one quick personal example on this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That a couple months ago, I saw Ben Shapiro, who you probably know. | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure. | ||
| I got into a little fight with this guy, Jonathan Chait, who I think is at New York Magazine, who's a big lefty, and they were fighting about small business, and Chait said something like, small business isn't even a real thing, it's just what the media uses to keep you quiet, you know, some nonsensical thing. | ||
| And I responded to him, and I don't even follow this guy, but I saw the thing, and I was like, that's insane, because I have a small business. | ||
| I'm a small business! | ||
| I have a small business. | ||
| I am extremely proud of the employees that I have, who, by the way, I pay all of the health insurance and all that. | ||
| We now have a part-timer and all that. | ||
| I built a studio and a small business that I'm very proud of. | ||
| So I wrote back to him and I said, I'm very proud of the small business I've created. | ||
| I've created several jobs. | ||
| I'm very proud of that. | ||
| And he retweeted me and wrote, oh, something to the effect of, oh, you've created several jobs, implying that creating several jobs is somehow an embarrassment or that I shouldn't, I'm not in it. | ||
| Or I'm not an authority, but the irony being if I had created a hundred jobs, he'd say I'm an evil corporate | ||
| model So what is the number? What are we talking about? Is 26? 26? | ||
| Am I now an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about or am I an evil corporate model? | ||
| That's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I mean | ||
| Small businesses are ideally what would be I mean that they it would be better for us to have more small businesses | ||
| All small businesses! | ||
| I would be all for that! | ||
| I would much prefer it if, and I don't want to see corporations broken up using government authority or anything like that, but if somehow we end up in a future where most people are either small business owners or employees of small businesses, that in my opinion would be better for everyone. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When you say that, that's partly because of, it's not only because of your political view, but it's because of your literal existence. | ||
| You, as you just said, you are a small businessman. | ||
| You work for yourself. | ||
| There's a great sense of pride. | ||
| There's a sense of ownership. | ||
| And the thing is, I commission people to do things. | ||
| I commission art. | ||
| I like running competitions where I can offer quite a substantial prize for a piece of art or something. | ||
| And I like being able to give back. | ||
| I like being able to do things for people. | ||
| that involve helping them progress in their career as well, as a voluntary transaction. | ||
| I think that's a fantastic thing. | ||
| And what annoys me about all of this is that is what I would define as empowerment. | ||
| A person just literally building something with their own two hands, metaphorically, | ||
| and putting something together like this. | ||
| You know, you now have employees, and the closer you are to the power, then the more the power is responsive to you. | ||
| That's just a general rule of power politics, and it applies to anything ever, you know, which is why, like, a giant corporation The CEOs of this corporation are probably not even in the same country as most of their employees. | ||
| And so they're not going to respond to any of the employee demands. | ||
| They're not going to treat their employees fairly. | ||
| Well, I mean, there's a chance that they're not going to. | ||
| And not through malice either, but just through ignorance. | ||
| Whereas you work with your employees every day. | ||
| You're very close to them. | ||
| You're friends with them. | ||
| You like your employees. | ||
| I'm married to my executive producer. | ||
| You want them to do well. | ||
| Definitely a strong argument for that. | ||
| Just for the betterment of people's lives, the actual life they're living, the personal wealth, the happiness in their job. | ||
| I definitely think small businesses are much better for that than giant soulless corporations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And therein lies the rub. | ||
| I have too few employees here, I agree. | ||
| I have too many employees here. | ||
| The fact that he retweeted you saying, oh, look at this, oh. | ||
| Good God. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right, wait, I want to dive a little more into Brexit because we did not, in America, there was not a great understanding of what was going on. | ||
| There's no Britain either. | ||
| Yeah, that's funny. | ||
| I mean, there was, in effect, we had no coverage of it until about two days before. | ||
| Then the day before, there was a ton of coverage. | ||
| The day after, everyone was going crazy, like, oh my God, what happened? | ||
| Sort of like the day after Trump. | ||
| And now there's no discussion of it again. | ||
| Breakdown Brexit a little bit. | ||
| So I understand what you're saying about the working class versus the elites. | ||
| It has now also, in effect, led to Corbyn, which is a little bizarre. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So just give me a couple of minutes on it. | |
| Okay, so the quick breakdown is the British public has never really liked the European Union. | ||
| And I put this down. | ||
| My opinion is because the European Union is heavily dominated by the Germans financially and Philosophically, you know, the British have always been very standoffish about the European Union because they don't like the idea and the European Union started as an economic community where people would cooperate and it has slowly but surely over the decades been coalescing into | ||
| A federalized, sovereign nation state. | ||
| And it's been trying to get all of these trappings. | ||
| I mean, in 2011, the British vetoed a motion for them to get their own army. | ||
| And this is particularly dangerous because they don't raise taxes from anyone. | ||
| They raise taxes from the government. | ||
| They collect a portion of the taxes raised from governments. | ||
| But they don't raise them directly themselves. | ||
| So they're not accountable to any of the Demos in Europe. | ||
| And I don't know why most of Europe is acceptable of this, but that's continental Europe for you. | ||
| The British are not happy with this, and they demand accountability from the politicians they always have. | ||
| And the sort of English liberalism that Britain's always projected has always required this. | ||
| And so when people... And again, it comes down to the whole philosophy behind liberalism. | ||
| It's about being a peer. | ||
| I mean, we have no respect for our politicians. | ||
| Corbyn's cult of personality is a bizarre thing to watch. | ||
| Because, I mean, it's a very middle class thing to watch as well. | ||
| But for most of the working class, most just people who aren't part of that group, they don't like Corbyn. | ||
| Corbyn was the most, well, no, Tony Blair was the most disliked politician in the country. | ||
| Then it was Jeremy Corbyn. | ||
| I mean, you know, this time six months ago, or a year ago when Brexit happened, Our current Prime Minister, Theresa May, she was phenomenally popular and Jeremy Corbyn was the most unpopular. | ||
| So how do you get there then? | ||
| How do you get from a principle, like Brexit to me strikes me as an individualistic principle. | ||
| We want to control our destiny again. | ||
| How do you get from that to six months later having the collectivist ideology of Corbyn? | ||
| Is this completely on May? | ||
| It's on six months of May? | ||
| Yeah, actually. | ||
| It's really hard not to put it on Theresa May. | ||
| She came out with a tremendously bad manifesto. | ||
| She refused to debate. | ||
| She didn't stand for anything. | ||
| She didn't come out in the public. | ||
| She didn't attack Corbyn's ideology, which she should have done from the word go. | ||
| I know. | ||
| She could have just put you out there. | ||
| She could have just put up a picture of Corbyn giving Chavez a hug. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| With the quote underneath, Fidel Castro was a hero of social justice, which is an actual quote from Jeremy Corbyn. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| I swear to God, the man is a lunatic. | ||
| He's a soft totalitarian. | ||
| And people, because he hides it behind this facade of being softly spoken and, oh, but I really care. | ||
| It's like, OK, but you didn't care when your momentum supporters, which is hard left support in the left, We're putting bricks through the rebel Labour MPs' windows. | ||
| They didn't care then. | ||
| He is a dangerous man and nobody wants to see it. | ||
| Because they like a little bit of violence. | ||
| They love it. | ||
| They think it's completely justified. | ||
| They've got no problem with it. | ||
| Because your morality is based by your ideological framework. | ||
| If you think the evil capitalists are oppressing the working class, then you are totally justified. | ||
| in violence towards the evil capitalists and anyone who supports their regime. | ||
| So all of a sudden, I mean, you know, they become enemies of | ||
| the people and that is, that's one thing that liberalism can't do. | ||
| It can't otherize someone into a category that is not acceptable, you know, you can't, because it's a universal | ||
| philosophy, it's for everyone, literally every single individual, | ||
| regardless of opinion, regardless of status, should enjoy the same rights and a | ||
| violation of any of those rights is a problem. | ||
| Which is why I'm often forced to defend Donald Trump or Richard Spencer or someone like that. | ||
| People who I would never like and never get along with, but I'm afraid I can't tolerate the left treating them the way they do. | ||
| It's unacceptable. | ||
| So my final question for now, then we're going to jump. | ||
| You know what, I think maybe we're going to do a drink during the Q&A. | ||
| You want a drink? | ||
| I would love a drink. | ||
| What do you drink? | ||
| I feel like maybe like a scotch or a whiskey guy. | ||
| I like brandy. | ||
| You're a branding guy? | ||
| Let me see what we can do over there. | ||
| We've got a lot of stuff behind you, but I think we can do a little something. | ||
| All right, so we're gonna do the second half of this Q&A from the audience on that. | ||
| But just to wrap this up, so I sense you feel optimistic about this. | ||
| I sense optimism. | ||
| Well, I'm not very optimistic about Brexit at the moment. | ||
| But I mean, just the general ideas that we're talking about, that they are starting to latch on. | ||
| What I think we need is for the centre to develop its own political identity. | ||
| And not to say, right, we're white or whatever, not identity politics, but to have a conception of itself away from the extremes of either side. | ||
| Because this is the problem. | ||
| You've got the hard left, which are the anti-far commies and throwing bricks through windows and beating people with bike chains. | ||
| And then you've got the alt-rights, who are the legitimate racists who want to do whatever racist things they want to do. | ||
| And if you're on the right, you get kind of drawn towards that just by association. | ||
| If you're on the left, you get drawn to that by association. | ||
| If you're in the center, like we are, you've got nothing. | ||
| Whereas I think most people are probably a lot closer to the center. | ||
| So what we need to do is find some sort of like woke centrist meme where we can say, you know what? | ||
| Fuck the extremes. | ||
| Fuck them. | ||
| They're both wrong. | ||
| They're both crazy. | ||
| They're both dangerous. | ||
| They both don't want dialogue with the other side. | ||
| Whereas in the centre, if you're centre-left, you're centre-right, I mean, I'm sure that a lot of people watching on the internet right now are well aware that people on the centre-left and centre-right are having a lot better conversations about politics than anyone from the extremes. | ||
| Fuck the extremes. | ||
| They're a tiny fringe of idiots. | ||
| We need to just ignore them. | ||
| They can just be safely, no, you're an idiot socialist, you're an idiot alt-writer, not interested in your opinions because you're frankly, batty. | ||
| And you require everything, I mean, you require radical, comprehensive change to the system that nobody wants to see. | ||
| I know you don't do the live sit-downs that often, but you know how to end an hour. | ||
| That's a beautiful ending right there. | ||
| All right, here's what we're gonna do. | ||
| We're gonna take one minute. | ||
| We did two minutes last time. | ||
| We're gonna take one minute, I'm gonna pour Carl a drink, and then we're gonna do a Q&A on Super Chat and Patreon. | ||
| 60 seconds, set your watches. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Um. | |
| Right now. | ||
| . | ||
| . | ||
| We're back. | ||
| I know that took a little more than 60 seconds. | ||
| It was ambitious of me. | ||
| We had to pour. | ||
| He wanted brandy. | ||
| We got whiskey. | ||
| We got two whiskeys here. | ||
| So first off, to doing something in real life, you know what I mean? | ||
| Isn't real life something? | ||
| Yeah, it is. | ||
| It's definitely different to sitting in my office comfortably. | ||
| I'm not in my element. | ||
| All right, well, you've got some whiskey on the rocks, and we're jumping in. | ||
| We're doing Super Chat and Patreon, and here we go. | ||
| I mean, there's already a bajillion questions here, so you better, if you're thinking, cap on. | ||
| $20, Carl, how are you finding the U.S. | ||
| so far? | ||
| Oh, it's wonderful. | ||
| I was expecting, I believe it was called commie-phornia, to be a lot, no, it's wonderful. | ||
| Everyone's been really nice, really, really nice. | ||
| I was walking. | ||
| Basically, the way you do things here is different to the way we do things in the UK. | ||
| And I noticed that your junctions are terrible. | ||
| Poorly conceived, frankly. | ||
| What do you want out of our junctions? | ||
| Well, I was up on the other day and I pressed the button and I noticed that everyone was stopped. | ||
| There was no one moving. | ||
| And this went on for longer than I thought I was comfortable with, to be honest. | ||
| And while I was waiting there, there was a really nice chap, I don't know who he was or anything, who could tell I was obviously not from the area. | ||
| And he basically said, oh, no, no, no, look, the thing over there. | ||
| We ended up walking along the same path. | ||
| We just ended up having a chat, and he was like, hey, you know, weed's legal here. | ||
| And I was like, oh, great. | ||
| I'll have to get some. | ||
| And he was like, well, you can't because you need a license. | ||
| But I've got one of the electronic cigarettes thing with cannabis oil. | ||
| Here, have a hit. | ||
| And I was like, oh, that's such a nice thing. | ||
| This is just, you know, I don't know you. | ||
| I'm just going to walk away. | ||
| I'm never going to see you again. | ||
| You're telling me you come to our country here and smoke weed on the streets? | ||
| I absolutely would, yes. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We're going to spend some time after the camera. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Super Chat. | ||
| How do we stop the regressives? | ||
| Is there a solution? | ||
| And will the solution be final? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You trolls! | |
| Unfortunately, we could never actually have a final solution in a liberal system. | ||
| And that's a good thing. | ||
| So I don't know why I said unfortunately. | ||
| But yeah, it's the long march. | ||
| You've got to get wherever these people are taking over, you have to take over. | ||
| Because I mean, fundamentally, these people are institutionalists. | ||
| I mean, you've seen this everywhere. | ||
| Everyone who's familiar with the FJWs has seen it everywhere they go. | ||
| They suck up to the power. | ||
| And this is something a lot of people don't think about when they think about social justice. | ||
| Think about how they define everything. | ||
| It's in terms of power. | ||
| power and you have to think in that sort of way. So you have to think right, do I want | ||
| them in control or do I want someone responsible in control? | ||
| And often that means that if you're like me and you're some sort of slacker and you just want, | ||
| I want to play video games and get stoned. Well, that's great, but you have to do it | ||
| on your own time because society needs you to step up and actually be responsible and do | ||
| something with your life. I hate to say it. I'm not, I'm not the guy who wants to do it either, | ||
| but you know. | ||
| Yeah, but, but here we are. | ||
| It reminds me of Jason Whitlock, who I had on from Fox Sports 1 a couple days ago, or two weeks ago or so, was saying how these people with hashtag resistance, they think they're resisting something, but they're actually sucking up to the real power. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, they're the ones calling the shots. | |
| Is there a final solution for the radical left? | ||
| Okay, we got it, we got it. | ||
| I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of final solution. | ||
| I can hear a helicopter somewhere. | ||
| On Patreon, I think we've basically addressed this already, but what's the fundamental difference between classical liberalism and social liberalism, if any? | ||
| Well, the difference is on points of policy. | ||
| Really, in reality, I am actually a social liberal. | ||
| But I say the word classical liberal because it differentiates the intellectual tradition I'm drawing on. | ||
| I'm very, very concerned with differentiating liberalism from progressivism. | ||
| Liberalism from Marxism. | ||
| I mean, any intellectual would be able to, obviously, be like, well, of course, why would you need to do this? | ||
| But it's for the layman. | ||
| The average layman doesn't really understand the difference, I think. | ||
| And if you say, I'm a classical liberal, then you are firmly planting your foot in the concept of self-ownership, markets, free market economics, all that sort of thing. | ||
| You're firmly planting the foot there. | ||
| But I'm more than happy to take Hayek's interpretation of the acceptability of social programs as long as they don't violate the principles of individualism. | ||
| Which means as long as they're universal, that's fine. | ||
| It's acceptable. | ||
| We can bear it. | ||
| It's not going to completely ruin what we consider to be our freedom. | ||
| So, a few people ask me this. | ||
| I get this asked all the time, but we have a couple on Patreon about this. | ||
| So then, how would you define the difference between classical liberalism and libertarianism? | ||
| Because I get that all the time. | ||
| People say, David, you keep saying classical liberal, but it sounds like you're a libertarian. | ||
| But you're saying some utility of the state. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Well, yeah, it comes into the difference between whether you think the state is valid or not, frankly. | ||
| The libertarian movement needs to figure out whether it can accept the existence of the state. | ||
| And there are a huge number of libertarians who are basically closet ANCAPs. | ||
| And, I mean, the anarcho-communists are at least more realistic in the idea of anarchy. | ||
| That when you have an anarchy, you're not going to own anything. | ||
| Which is true. | ||
| The anarcho-capitalists are totally delusional. | ||
| They are not going to own any property if there is no government. | ||
| Government is there to protect your property rights, you being part of your own property rights. | ||
| And libertarians need to understand that the government isn't evil, it's just being mismanaged at the moment. | ||
| The state is valid, it's got a definitive place and we need it. | ||
| And we need to be the ones controlling it. | ||
| At the moment, we're not. | ||
| Sargon, what are your thoughts on takia? | ||
| Do you think it's relevant in Western societies? | ||
| Also chemtrails and re. | ||
| Well, I believe the chemtrails are turning the frogs gay. | ||
| Yes, I saw that, I think, on some popular YouTube channel. | ||
| You know, I actually looked into the study Alex Jones was citing. | ||
| He's actually underselling it. | ||
| It's actually turning them trans. | ||
| I swear to God I looked into it. | ||
| I think it was in California, actually, where a percentage of the frogs, they were starting to exhibit feminine behaviours on contact with a certain kind of chemical, and 10% of them actually underwent the full transition into being female and were fertile. | ||
| But I have a friend who's a doctor who's like, look, this only applies to frogs, and it's only this species of frog, and it wasn't part of a globalist plot, it was corporate mouth. | ||
| Corporate malfeasance, obviously. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But there was like a grain of truth to it, and it's... So you're saying it was the evolutionary plot, not the globalist plot, perhaps. | ||
| What was the first part of the question, sir? | ||
| The first part was about Takia. | ||
| Oh, right, you mean Takia. | ||
| Takia, yeah. | ||
| I need to know more about it, to be honest. | ||
| The basic premise... No, no, no, I understand the premise, but I... Well, I meant for the good people that don't know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, sorry. | |
| The basic premise being that in Islam there is this law or rule of principle that says you're allowed to lie to Westerners, or you're allowed to lie to the other in an effort to increase the influence of Islam. | ||
| I mean, I'm sure that is a... I mean, I know that is a thing within Islam. | ||
| But I'm hesitant to embrace the idea specifically because it's going to turn into a very, very convenient way to dismiss Muslims by saying, well, whatever you just said is taqiyya, what I think is right, what you think is wrong, you're a liar. | ||
| And I don't want to do that. | ||
| Because, you know, that's not engaging with what they're saying or refuting them on their own terms. | ||
| I'm with you on that. | ||
| Why do you speak down to the middle class? | ||
| I'm American and I fall into the lower middle class. | ||
| Because I am middle class. | ||
| By the way, I've never been to college and I love my job building crop dusters. | ||
| Why do you speak down to the middle class? | ||
| Maybe I'm missing something. | ||
| No, no, that's a good point. | ||
| I should distinguish between the middle class and the bourgeoisie because there is a difference. | ||
| He's talking about being financially middle class. | ||
| But the bourgeoisie is something different. | ||
| It's a cultural conception. | ||
| Originally I think it was coined by Rousseau, but it was at least defined really well by | ||
| Rousseau. | ||
| The bourgeoisie are a gang of pretentious cunts. | ||
| They are the worst of people. | ||
| They don't even know that they're the worst of people. | ||
| They are self-centered. | ||
| They are absolutely without any conception of what is actually good. | ||
| And I know because so many of my friends are bourgeoisie and they are good people. | ||
| But they don't understand their own deficiencies. | ||
| Because I dropped out of university and I went straight to the bottom. | ||
| I was poor. | ||
| I've spent times in my life where I've had to subsist on welfare, otherwise I wouldn't have lived in a house. | ||
| I wouldn't have had food. | ||
| And then I've worked my way back out of it, slowly but steadily. | ||
| But these people don't. | ||
| They grow up in a comfortable middle class environment, they go to university, they get their degrees, they go and do their jobs, and they're not wealthy. | ||
| They might be struggling because they might get a degree in something that doesn't pay very well, and so they might find themselves doing a stint at Starbucks and stuff. | ||
| But they hold a remarkable amount of conceit and pretensions about themselves. | ||
| And if you violate these pretensions, they despise you. | ||
| And that's a problem for me, because I try not to hold pretensions. | ||
| Because if you look at the working class and the lower classes, they don't hold any pretensions. | ||
| Yeah, so you're not talking about the middle class per se. | ||
| You're talking about pretension that comes along with a certain subset of it. | ||
| I'm really talking about the bourgeoisie. | ||
| When I say middle class, specifically in this context, I think he's referring to earnings. | ||
| Nothing wrong with someone mid-learning. | ||
| In fact, I want you to earn more. | ||
| And I know that if you've gone up from the lower class to get to the middle class, even if you've come down, you're going to have been doing this through your own hard work and labor and good on you. | ||
| You should earn more. | ||
| In fact, I hope you earn more. | ||
| I hope you become a millionaire. | ||
| Self-made millionaire is the dream of any right-thinking liberal, I think. | ||
| I'll one-up you. | ||
| I want you to earn more, and I want the government to take less. | ||
| That would be nice. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| Superchat, Dave, love your show. | ||
| Keep it up. | ||
| Sargon, I told Mundane Matt that if there is one nearby, he should take you out to dinner to Five Guys Burgers. | ||
| There's one within about two miles from here, by the way, for burgers and fries. | ||
| GG represent a toast and french fry for me. | ||
| And did you get Kekistan on the UK census list? | ||
| We haven't had the census yet. | ||
| I think it's 2022, I think is the next census. | ||
| All right, fair enough. | ||
| But I tell you what, when that comes around, I'm going to be making a big noise about that. | ||
| And we're going to see how many we can get on there. | ||
| I will be happy to give you a signal boost on that. | ||
| Superchat, how can we make centrism sexy? | ||
| You gave a nice little ending to our first hour. | ||
| I think sanity and just sort of logic and reason is starting to have an appeal. | ||
| I don't know if it's sexy, but there's an appeal now that maybe there wasn't three years ago. | ||
| The problem with just saying things like logic and reason is that there is logic behind the extremist positions. | ||
| They're just often very selective in that logic. | ||
| It's not just a panacea to appeal to people, because they will just say, well, we're logical as well. | ||
| And technically, they have a logic behind them. | ||
| But I think... | ||
| The center left and the center right need to turn around and say, hey, you know what? | ||
| We're actually best buddies. | ||
| It's just that we've been fighting each other for so long, we mistake each other for our enemies. | ||
| And we're actually not. | ||
| We're like rival siblings. | ||
| They want a certain thing. | ||
| We want a certain thing. | ||
| But at least we can all agree on the rules of the game. | ||
| We're not going to just sit there and slander each other's character. | ||
| We're not going to try and ruin each other. | ||
| We can respect that we have a difference of opinion, and we can have a proper conversation. | ||
| The extremes of each side don't. | ||
| They hate you. | ||
| They hate anyone to the left or the right of them. | ||
| When a Marxist calls you a right-winger, Dave, technically they're right, because anything to the right of them is a right-winger. | ||
| They're so far to the bloody left. | ||
| I've seen the meme, I've seen the meme. | ||
| All right, well, this one sort of dovetails on that super chat. | ||
| Love the new center idea. | ||
| How do we not make the same mistake of purging center allies for wrong think when we reject the left-right fringes? | ||
| So basically, if we- The center is all about wrong think. | ||
| This is where the wrong thing happens. | ||
| This is where the wrong thing happens. | ||
| We sit here, we hash out the ideas, and good ideas will naturally rise to the top, bad ideas will just naturally sink. | ||
| Why do you still say that your left wing, when it comes to your liberalism, is more center than anything? | ||
| I'm center-left. | ||
| This is why I say I'm a social liberal. | ||
| I want universal health care. | ||
| I think a social safety net is important. | ||
| But I also agree that Thomas Sowell makes a good point that an excessive amount of money given creates a perverse incentive. | ||
| And this is something that happens regularly on council estates all across the UK. | ||
| Where you'll get young women who think, well, I could go and get a career, I could go and get a job, but that's a lot of work. | ||
| I could have a few kids out of wedlock, and the government's gonna give me, the Conservative Party in Britain had to cap at 25,000 pounds. | ||
| The average wage in Britain is 22,000 pounds. | ||
| That's a perverse incentive. | ||
| You can't incentivize people to earn more money by doing nothing than the average wage by doing nothing, by having kids. | ||
| I'm sorry, it's wrong. | ||
| You're actually telling them to do nothing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Another from Patreon. | ||
| Can you explain to a recovering anarchist How we still get to help people in need of social help without the government, as it seems to be a ground we could agree on. | ||
| This is a good one. | ||
| That's a great question, actually. | ||
| You personally can do it. | ||
| This is one thing that drives me crazy. | ||
| This is what drives me crazy with bourgeoisie. | ||
| They want the things to be done, they just don't want to do it themselves. | ||
| And hell, I'm kind of that way as well. | ||
| That's why I'm happy with, like, a welfare state and social care. | ||
| I don't want to have to worry about those things. | ||
| You know, I mean, I could give money to the thing, but I would rather just not have to, and then I can concentrate on my own personal selfish interests. | ||
| So is the problem that there's no real way to test that? | ||
| Because I agree, I would rather everyone's taxes be lower, given more money, and then you decide if you want to give to Planned Parenthood, or if you want to give more to a homeless shelter or whatever. | ||
| Now yes, certain people are just going to give nothing, it's just how it is, but hopefully that would be made up by people that would give. | ||
| For certain things, I think, and this is just my own moral preference, so it's not something I could authoritatively say, you need to do X. But for certain things, I don't want to see any person sliding through the cracks on, say, healthcare or housing. | ||
| You know, I loathe that there are homeless people. | ||
| I mean, the only charity I ever do is giving money out of my wallet to a homeless person. | ||
| And it infuriates me when you get some bourgeois cunt comes along and says, well, he's just going to spend it on drugs. | ||
| Good! | ||
| Let him spend it on drugs. | ||
| Let him spend it on drink. | ||
| He's homeless for Christ's sake. | ||
| Yeah, meanwhile they're popping pills left and right. | ||
| Exactly, exactly. | ||
| Hypocrisy of it. | ||
| You know, he's only going to spend it on drugs. | ||
| Get Ben. | ||
| You know, good. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| And then they'll give money to some corrupt charity who give like 5% of it to the actual people and spend 90% of it on advertising and wages and high salaries for their corporate executives. | ||
| Get Ben. | ||
| These people are hypocrites and they can shut up, a lot of them. | ||
| All right, if you're just joining us, we are doing a super chat and Patreon chat with Carl Benjamin, Sargon of Akkad. | ||
| Super chat, college Republicans of FSU was completely destroyed by the alt-left by accusing the president of sexual harassment and embezzlement. | ||
| Why should I stand up now and risk my future? | ||
| So I don't know about the specific instance of that. | ||
| Presumably, you're talking about why should you risk your future before you finish your degree? | ||
| Yeah, and we addressed that earlier. | ||
| Don't do that. | ||
| Finish your degree. | ||
| Just keep your head down. | ||
| I know you might feel like you are being oppressed, and you are actually being oppressed by being forced into silence, but this is just you thinking to your own best interest. | ||
| You're paying for this degree. | ||
| Don't let them fuck you. | ||
| Yeah, I think that's actually a better answer than I've... I've always kicked it back to them and said, you know, it's on you to figure out what you have to do, and I've never felt that that answer was enough, but maybe being, in this case, like, just get your degree and then figure out... Yeah, just don't be a hero. | ||
| Don't be a hero. | ||
| But once you've got the degree, they can't take it away from you. | ||
| The problem is, do you see the inherent problem, though, that then the same argument could be, well, you've now got a job, so be quiet. | ||
| No, no, but this is why then, after you get your degree or your PhD or whatever, then you need to become a professor. | ||
| You need to become one of the people like Brett Weinstein who stands up. | ||
| Because when it comes to your job, OK, that's fine, because you can get another job as a professor somewhere else. | ||
| And if a bunch of angry leftists kick you out of your university, I'm sure that you will be able to find another job, because you'll become famous. | ||
| We will make you famous. | ||
| You will not be on your own. | ||
| But you have to get into the institutions. | ||
| You have to get hired as a professor. | ||
| Become part of the institution that they are now cannibalizing. | ||
| Super chat, great work guys. | ||
| Sargon, do you have ideas about how to address the mass Muslim migrations to Western countries without violating human rights or allowing Western cultures to diminish? | ||
| This is obviously a great question. | ||
| As classical liberals, I think we've been caught in the middle of this. | ||
| We don't want Muslim people to be discriminated against. | ||
| We're trying to have an honest discussion about the roots of ideology and extremism. | ||
| You want to be fair to immigrants, America is a nation of immigrants, etc, etc. | ||
| How do you deal with this? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Right, okay. | ||
| The first thing I would recommend is controlled immigration. | ||
| Uncontrolled mass immigration is dangerous, not only for your social cohesion, but it's also a form of economic warfare against the poor, for a start. | ||
| That's the first argument I'd make. | ||
| Allowing people in who hold fundamentally incompatible beliefs, I think, is a legitimate form of discrimination. | ||
| I mean, for example, if the Soviet Union existed, would you allow mass immigration from the Soviet Union of all these communists in? | ||
| That would be crazy, because they would just be advocating for communism. | ||
| You couldn't do that. | ||
| And it's the same with Islam. | ||
| If they're advocating for gender segregation and the act of oppression of gays and things like this, You can say no, because these go against the... I mean, these would be violating the rights of the people in your society, like they violate the rights of the people in theirs. | ||
| You don't have to stand for that, and that's not bigoted. | ||
| That's actually standing for something true on principle. | ||
| But once they're in, now we're in the position, I mean... | ||
| I mean, obviously no one wants to do anything that's nasty. | ||
| So, I mean, my personal... I would maybe provide incentives, financial incentives to, you know, expatriate or something like that. | ||
| But again, it's tough and... | ||
| You get certain brands of Islam that are very tribalistic, like the Diobandis, a Pakistani sect of Islam. | ||
| Very, very closed, very tribalistic, very anti-Western. | ||
| And it's going to be very, very difficult to make those people integrate. | ||
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| I don't have an answer to that, necessarily, beyond that. | ||
| And the liberal tradition really wouldn't be about forcing them to believe something they're enlightened to rub. | ||
| I mean, the most important thing, I think, is for people to engage with them. | ||
| Because, I mean, one thing I think we can actually do in this regard is weaponize the Christians. | ||
| Like, you've got people like David Wood, who spends his entire YouTube channel knocking down Islamic arguments with remarkable consistency and skill. | ||
| And, I mean, I would not agree with David Wood. | ||
| I'm an atheist, obviously, and I would never agree with David Wood on almost everything about Christianity or the very principles of religion and why it's good and why it's necessary and whether God exists and all that sort of thing. | ||
| I would love to see him absolutely hammering these Muslim apologists and the radical preachers and stuff like that in debates. | ||
| Because he is going to bring Muslims to Christianity, more Muslims to Christianity than they're going to bring Christians to Islam. | ||
| And I would rather be around Christians who didn't want to have a literalist interpretation of their holy book. | ||
| I would much rather that. | ||
| I think that's honestly the most pragmatic option. | ||
| I can't believe I'm defending Christianity. | ||
| That's just the whiskey talking. | ||
| All right, Super Chat. | ||
| Would you ever accept an offer to host your own show similar to Hard Talk by a major network? | ||
| I feel now more than ever, as you have the qualifications to do so. | ||
| No. | ||
| All right, moving on. | ||
| What creators influenced you before you got into YouTube? | ||
| That's a good one. | ||
| I'm a big fan of the Four Horsemen. | ||
| Kind of annoying to see Sam Harris floundering at the edges of internet culture, not understanding it. | ||
| So not getting the Pepe? | ||
| Not just that, but I saw him on Joe Rogan's show, where he was complaining about Mike Senevich's success and stuff like this. | ||
| And I'm thinking, Sam, you could be like that. | ||
| You don't have to lie, or not necessarily lie, that's unfair, but distort or misrepresent. | ||
| You don't have to do that, but you just have to understand And Sam Harris is one of these pretentious bourgeois liberals. | ||
| I mean, he literally said, I'm looking for people to get on my show, but no trolls, no this, no that, and the other. | ||
| And it's like, Sam, just stop it. | ||
| Just stop with this pretentious crap. | ||
| Get people on who will be an interesting conversation. | ||
| Just get someone who will be good for you to talk to. | ||
| If you sit there and put barriers to entry, frankly, just arbitrary on your part, You're going to find yourself, like the SJWs, outnumbered by people all around you that you don't understand because you've not taken the time to engage with them. | ||
| And that's the reason the SJWs are losing. | ||
| So it's kind of sad to see the last standing horseman losing the fight for the The platform of ideas, you know. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Because I was a big, big respect for the Forsman, you know. | ||
| They were all brilliant. | ||
| Brilliant in their respective fields. | ||
| Excellent arguments. | ||
| I mean, I've never been religious, but gave me good arguments to use against the religious. | ||
| And against, you know, bigotry in general. | ||
| Things like that in general. | ||
| So it's disappointing to see Sam Kind of turning his nose up about the people who like him the most. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, without getting into any private conversations that I've had with him, I've discussed that with him a little bit about the trolling culture and that sort of thing. | ||
| Yeah, there's a thing. | ||
| He needs to understand that it's not malicious. | ||
| It's light-hearted and, you know, it's just jokes, Sam. | ||
| Calm down. | ||
| Okay, someone on Super Chat wants me to take you to In-N-Out instead of Five Guys. | ||
| In-N-Out, in my humble opinion here in Los Angeles, is much better than Five Guys. | ||
| We've actually got Five Guys in Britain. | ||
| Oh, you've got Five Guys? | ||
| Yeah, I've actually eaten there. | ||
| Oh, then you've got to... Oh. | ||
| Then we're all good. | ||
| Alright, you've got to go to... No, no, no, no. | ||
| Well, we're doing GameGate, we have to go to GameGate. | ||
| You're going to In-N-Out. | ||
| The argument you get from socialists is look at countries like Sweden and Norway. | ||
| Thoughts on this? | ||
| They're not socialist countries. | ||
| Yeah, and we've sort of addressed this already. | ||
| Yeah, but I mean, the funniest thing was when Bernie Sanders said, oh, look at socialist countries like Denmark. | ||
| And the Danish prime minister had to come out and say, Bernie, we're a free market economy. | ||
| We're not socialists. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're social liberals. | ||
| They're what I want, you know. | ||
| And they're very successful because they're social liberals. | ||
| They're free market economies. | ||
| They have strong social programs, and they do have high taxes, higher than I'm comfortable with. | ||
| They're not Marxists, they're not socialist countries. | ||
| This is the eternal thing. | ||
| The socialists will always tell you, you want socialised healthcare? | ||
| That's socialism. | ||
| No, socialism is an ideology that has many different things and it overlaps with certain other ideologies that also want similar things. | ||
| That doesn't mean they're the same and you don't own socialised healthcare. | ||
| I'm very sorry. | ||
| Yeah, and it's also, I think, partly why you've framed a lot of this between sort of the freedom side or the libertarian side and the authoritarian side. | ||
| I think this is a great question. | ||
| It's for both of us. | ||
| Why do you guys distinguish yourselves as classical liberals as opposed to regular libertarians or moderate left or moderate right? | ||
| No one identifies with the Whigs anymore or any other dead political parties. | ||
| I'm sorry, the socialists have come right on back. | ||
| A hundred years ago they were having exactly the same conversations that we're having now. | ||
| I'm sorry, we're coming back. | ||
| We're coming back to fix this shit. | ||
| We have no choice. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| What are we going to do? | ||
| Do nothing? | ||
| Join political philosophies that aren't going to work? | ||
| No, of course not. | ||
| Jordan Peterson, this is Super Chat, Jordan Peterson said civilizations go from order to corruption to chaos. | ||
| The Jordan Peterson? | ||
| The Jordan Peterson. | ||
| Dude, I love you so much. | ||
| He's great. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's great. | |
| He's just the best. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| So both of us, who are not believers... Oh, it's fine, yeah. | ||
| I mean, if he wants to hold... I mean, the thing is, I don't know why he holds his beliefs in Christianity, but It doesn't bleed into the rationale for the other beliefs he holds. | ||
| He's not irrational. | ||
| Right, his other beliefs are still rock solid. | ||
| I can't disprove God exists. | ||
| It's a choice whether you want to believe or not. | ||
| I'm an atheist, but I'm not necessarily anti-theist. | ||
| I'm a secularist. | ||
| As long as they can remain secular, I'm happy for them to remain religious. | ||
| Because we both agree that secularism is the important principle when dealing with political life. | ||
| Sorry, what was his question? | ||
| The question disappeared actually. | ||
| Oh no, Jordan Peterson said civilizations go from order to corruption to chaos. | ||
| What do you think about this in relation to our political climate? | ||
| I mean, it's kind of there. | ||
| Yeah, no, we're absolutely in that position now. | ||
| We're getting to a point where the existing order has become corrupt and it's become self-serving. | ||
| That's why I wanted Trump to win. | ||
| Because I knew it would bring chaos. | ||
| And chaos is, as they famously say, a ladder. | ||
| New things will arise. | ||
| New people will climb this ladder and get out and bring something good with them. | ||
| Bring something necessary with them. | ||
| They couldn't climb the ladder if they didn't have a solution. | ||
| If they didn't have a new way, a new order that people wanted. | ||
| They wouldn't have anything. | ||
| They wouldn't get anywhere. | ||
| I did not vote for Donald Trump. | ||
| I did videos on why not to vote for him. | ||
| I kept saying I don't know what his moral center is. | ||
| I had some of my most, the people who I hold in the highest regards, such as Sam, on the show to say why not to vote for him, and yet people will still attack me as some sort of crazed Trump supporter, and it's like, I think there's fertile ground now, and there would not have been fertile ground. | ||
| I tell you what, if, I mean, I get accused of being a Trump supporter, and I'm sat there thinking, well, I would hate to have me as a supporter. | ||
| Because my support for Trump was, Trump's an idiot. | ||
| He's a buffoon, but he can get the job done. | ||
| And the job is flipping the table. | ||
| Let's throw things up in the air, and we'll see where they fall, and we'll build something new out of it. | ||
| And the same with Brexit. | ||
| Although Brexit was actually more on points of principle. | ||
| I genuinely support Brexit. | ||
| Whereas for me, it was more anti-Hillary. | ||
| Because Hillary was the apotheosis of all of the corruption in the system. | ||
| What wasn't behind Hillary that you were personally opposed to? | ||
| Goldman Sachs? | ||
| Hillary. | ||
| Mainstream media? | ||
| Hillary. | ||
| Other corrupt countries? | ||
| Saudi Arabia? | ||
| Hillary. | ||
| I'm not supporting any of these things. | ||
| I want all of these things to fail. | ||
| I have to support the opposition. | ||
| I should have videotaped my driving to the polling station where I kept saying to David back and forth for a half hour, I have no idea what I'm going to do right now. | ||
| Did you vote for Gary Johnson? | ||
| I voted for Gary Johnson and may I be judged accordingly. | ||
| He's obviously a nice guy, but he's just not the right guy. | ||
| He's a totally nice guy. | ||
| He's been on the show. | ||
| I would love to smoke a joint and go skiing with him, but that's not necessarily what I want out of my president. | ||
| All right, there's so many here, so let's try to knock out a couple quick. | ||
| Patreon, who would be a better president, Hillary Clinton or Diane Abbott? | ||
| Hillary Clinton, hands down. | ||
| She'd be corrupt and terrible and awful, but she'd be better. | ||
| She'd be more efficient and smarter. | ||
| She's brilliant, don't get me wrong. | ||
| She's absolutely brilliant. | ||
| Diane Abbott's incompetent. | ||
| Carl, I've been watching Christopher Hitchens' videos recently, and he described himself as a Marxist. | ||
| I know. | ||
| In your opinion, how does he differ from SJW Marxists? | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| It's a little in the weeds, but... Yeah, it's a good question. | ||
| It's very much like Alinsky, describing himself as a small-c communist. | ||
| I would have to look up why Hitchens considered himself a Marxist, but I think it's that he Ideally liked the end goals of what socialism is. | ||
| I recently read The Soul of Man Under Socialism by Oscar Wilde. | ||
| It's a beautiful piece. | ||
| Very, very well written, obviously. | ||
| And it's enjoyable. | ||
| And it's noble. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| And it was the same with Bertrand Russell. | ||
| It's a noble goal that they're trying to get to. | ||
| It's never gonna happen. | ||
| They've got no... I mean, literally, he thinks... I mean, he literally contradicts himself in the piece where he says, you know, while man is doing hard labor like, you know, sweeping streets in the rain and stuff like that, he can never fully actualize his personality. | ||
| Because that was the point, you know. | ||
| Everyone should be free to be the person that they are. | ||
| And I completely agree. | ||
| And that's really, really wishful thinking, isn't it? | ||
| Because we're never going to... I mean, when are we ever going to be at a place where mankind doesn't have to sweep the streets? | ||
| Or, you know, it's going to be hundreds of years time when everything's been automated. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| When that happens, brilliant. | ||
| Until then, let's be realistic. | ||
| Let's stick with what works. | ||
| So basically, when everything gets automated, then we can re-evaluate all of these positions, because... Yeah, like I said earlier, when we don't have to labor, then socialism will be possible. | ||
| And in fact, it will be inevitable. | ||
| Because there'll be no value to anything that we do. | ||
| Because we didn't put any effort in to make it. | ||
| It's all there for us. | ||
| Is rum and coke a breakfast food? | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Hey Sargon and Dave, I'm a fan of both of you. | ||
| Just curious, since Sargon's in LA, are you going on Rogan? | ||
| Uh, he's not invited me. | ||
| Have you had any communication with him? | ||
| I told him I was coming. | ||
| If he wants to invite me, I'll happily say it. | ||
| Alright, let me see if I can ping him. | ||
| I'm a big fan of Joe Rogan. | ||
| I'll ping him and see what we can do. | ||
| Would you support the UK joining the EU again if reformed more to the UK democratic model? | ||
| Yeah, literally the only way I would support the UK joining the EU is if the UK took over the EU and started dictating terms. | ||
| Because the Germans do things differently to the British. | ||
| The Germans like to have an entire plan and structure put in place before anything's done. | ||
| And they like to be systematic, methodical, well thought out. | ||
| The British aren't like that. | ||
| We're happy to kind of bumble along and muddle through and we're confident that we can make decisions at the time that are sensible and it's not that the Germans are wrong and we're right or we're right and vice versa. | ||
| It's just different and it's not compatible. | ||
| Especially not compatible with what we consider to be freedom. | ||
| Man, if you guys are bumbling through, I really don't know what we're doing over here. | ||
| No, you're doing the same. | ||
| You're doing exactly the same. | ||
| This is an interesting one. | ||
| Sargon, are you familiar with any of Ayn Rand's works, and do you have any thoughts on objectivism? | ||
| You know, I've actually never read anything by Ayn Rand. | ||
| I like her argument that the smallest minority is the individual, because that, A, works in our favor, because it's definitely against collectivism. | ||
| But no, as far as I'm aware, they're a bit Bit too hard line. | ||
| I mean, I know something of what she was saying, but no, I've never looked into RAND. | ||
| I've never felt the need. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Interestingly, I did an event with them, with the Ayn Rand Institute last weekend, and I said to them, look, if we can fully agree on free speech, I can say whatever I want when I'm up there, and we're just going to completely agree on the absolute need for free speech, I'll be happy to work with you. | ||
| They said, we'll put anything else aside and work with you on that. | ||
| And I thought, that's how you build allies. | ||
| So I'm happy. | ||
| And I've been going to colleges with them, I can work with anyone who can agree on certain principles and that's one of them. | ||
| What is the future of your channel? | ||
| Will you branch out to something else like the brown buffalo did? | ||
| No. | ||
| Eventually, I plan to retire. | ||
| Maybe I'll write a novel that's crap, or maybe I'll make a video game that's crap, like I wanted to before I did my channel. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| I don't want to do any of this. | ||
| Sargon, I'm a long-time fan of your channel. | ||
| I've recently started my own YouTube channel, similar to yours. | ||
| You should have given yourself a shout-out. | ||
| Any advice for a recent start-up? | ||
| What was his name? | ||
| I only have the questions here. | ||
| Oh, sorry, I'd like to have given you a shout-out. | ||
| Any advice? | ||
| Read. | ||
| Read. | ||
| Read books. | ||
| Read books that you can be sure are written by experts. | ||
| Absorb as much of the knowledge as you can and apply it in what you're doing. | ||
| I mean, literally, you have to put in the hard work. | ||
| You can't just sit there and... I mean, I half-assed it for about a year and a half. | ||
| Before I was like, OK, I'm just going to buckle down and act like I'm getting a degree in this or something, and actually read the literature. | ||
| And Gary Edwards is a YouTuber and a philosophy professor, and I have a lot to thank for him. | ||
| Because I was quoting Aristotle, and I was like, you know what? | ||
| It's even better if you read it in the context. | ||
| And he was right. | ||
| And I was like, all right. | ||
|
unidentified
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All right. | |
| I'll get off my ass. | ||
| I'll do the work. | ||
| And it was worth it. | ||
| You know, it's funny, you do have to read these things because although I have read some Ayn Rand, I kept using that the smallest minority is the individual quote. | ||
| I kept attributing it to Ayaan Hirsi Ali who has said it. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| And then finally people kept saying to me it was Rand, not Ayaan. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| Oh, this is interesting. | ||
| Thoughts on compulsory military or civil service from a classical liberal slash individualist perspective. | ||
| The whole, like, individualist perspective, as long as everyone has to do it, it's not anti-individualist. | ||
| Because that's the whole point of individualism. | ||
| It doesn't leave anyone outside of the purview of what it's doing. | ||
| It applies to everyone equally, and so it's completely individualist. | ||
| I'm actually not necessarily against compulsory military service. | ||
| I think that it would probably do the bourgeoisie a lot of good to get down in the trenches, metaphorically, unless there's war, obviously. | ||
| But get down in the barrack rooms with the working class and get to know them. | ||
| Because that's the problem. | ||
| They don't understand these people. | ||
| They don't understand the lack of pretensions of the working class. | ||
| The working class, they can't afford pretensions. | ||
| You know, they've got nothing to be pretentious about. | ||
| Yeah, they've got real things to worry about. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| They've got real problems. | ||
| And it's only from living with them that I understand that they have real problems. | ||
| They're not pretentious people. | ||
| And you can't afford to be pretentious. | ||
| And this is why I hate the bourgeoisie. | ||
| It's so annoying. | ||
| I'm a leftist but I don't think identity politics is a core issue and would rather focus on things like ending austerity and ending dependency on fossil fuels. | ||
| How do we take progressivism back? | ||
| That's interesting because I would argue it's too late. | ||
| I don't think there is any taking it back. | ||
| I think it's incompatible with what we want. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What progressives want will also happen under liberalism. | ||
| This is the overlapping magisteria I was talking about earlier. | ||
| For example, gay rights. | ||
| What's the argument against gay rights? | ||
| There is none. | ||
| It's a religious argument. | ||
| Therefore, we have gay rights. | ||
| Anyone can get married. | ||
| If we just have the thing rather than who can do the thing. | ||
| For example, abortion. | ||
| Men should be able to get abortions. | ||
| They won't. | ||
| They won't. | ||
| Patience, patience. | ||
| But one day, maybe they will. | ||
| I mean, I don't know what will happen in 200 years time. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| Well, gender is a social contract. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And biological sex might go that way too. | ||
| But there's no reason to discriminate against men. | ||
| Because that just means that at some point in the future, if for some fluke or chance or weird exemption to the rule that a man happens to actually need an abortion, the law will prevent him from doing so. | ||
| It's like, why? | ||
| What difference does it make if it's men and women who can get it? | ||
| It's that kind of thing. | ||
| If we just focus on the thing itself, what can people do? | ||
| People can do X, people can do Y. Why put any kind of proviso on that as to some state? | ||
| The only exception I can think of is a financial situation, but that's not something inherent to yourself. | ||
| I hear ya. | ||
| Dave and Carl, what happened to Atheist YouTube? | ||
| With Jordan Peterson causing huge waves for Christians, why haven't these YouTube channels addressed Jordan Peterson's views on God? | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| Well, Sam and him have had two talks. | ||
| One was really hard to listen to and they couldn't get there. | ||
| The second one was- They both think in different ways. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But the second one, they got much closer to it. | ||
| I would love to host both of them here. | ||
| But do you think that Atheist YouTube, whatever that is defined as, has maybe missed an opportunity to push back on his- I don't think- No, I don't feel that secularism is under threat. | ||
| I don't feel that Jordan Peterson's religiosity is a threat to my secularism at all. | ||
| I don't see the need to fight it. | ||
| I think the battle's been won. | ||
| The Christian fundamentalists, and I'm not saying Peterson is won, the Christian fundamentalists have lost the argument. | ||
| We're not going down that road. | ||
| We're not enforcing things on the basis of your religion. | ||
| I don't see anyone actively, I don't see anyone really advancing that cause, so I'm not worried about it. | ||
| So, in a way, the Enlightenment and liberalism, in a lot of ways, beat Christianity. | ||
| And now it has a different enemy, so to speak. | ||
| Ironically, they share a lot of the same values. | ||
| Jesus was not a collectivist. | ||
| He was an individualist. | ||
| He was a universalist. | ||
| It's really the American right that caused the problem with Christianity, and it came from this excessive moralizing, and, well, they lost the argument. | ||
| Well, it really came from just a... | ||
| way to win elections that Karl Rove figured, let's really get in bed with the Christian conservatives and make this happen with George W. Bush, but that's a whole other story. | ||
| Sargon, what are your thoughts on George Soros? | ||
| Big fan, I would imagine, big fan. | ||
| He's a hugely intelligent man, highly educated. | ||
| You don't become a billionaire without being at least intelligent in some way, but if you look at him, he's very well educated, and he has a plan. | ||
| And I think that this plan is very detrimental to the lowest in the societies that we have. | ||
| But he considers, I think he considers people outside of our societies to be even lower. | ||
| And that's, you know, in the socioeconomic axis they are. | ||
| But his solutions are very detrimental to our own working classes. | ||
| Very detrimental. | ||
| And I think they're just completely wrong. | ||
| He's not evil. | ||
| He just has a conception of the world where he thinks he can make it, and it's not the one I agree on. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| You went kind of easy on him. | ||
| I thought that was going to be a full tearing. | ||
| I wanted to be realistic. | ||
| I could get polemic on him. | ||
| If extremes like Corbyn are on the fringes of society, why are they growing in popularity? | ||
| Is it because people are angry at the current state of affairs? | ||
| So I think we sort of hit that. | ||
| I mean they were on the fringes of society and then the centre got neo-liberal. | ||
| Another thing that's important to remember, we're not neo-liberals. | ||
| We don't agree that vast corporations should be able to meddle with government. | ||
| They shouldn't be able to exploit the poor in other nations. | ||
| These are problems with liberalism. | ||
| This is something we have to be vigilant about. | ||
| If we can get a liberal party in government, the first thing we've got to do is smash the influence of corporations over our governments. | ||
| I personally would be quite radical about it and I would say something like, I would be Brutal. | ||
| With any politician who took money from anywhere other than the public purse. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I would be brutal about it. | ||
|
unidentified
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So isn't... I'm literally, like, licencing something like that. | |
| We are talking... I mean, the harshest punishment we can find for anyone who takes any corporate money is the worst. | ||
| Corporations are fine. | ||
| If they exist, it's fine. | ||
| They're made up of individuals who all vote. | ||
| They can all individually donate to parties and whatnot. | ||
| But to have, like, this sort of corporate pandering that politicians are all bought and paid for, it's the worst. | ||
| It's corrupted our society completely. | ||
| Do you see that as a bit of a catch-22, though, because you don't want to exert too much state influence over things, or you think that this one is so corrupting in a sort of holistic way? | ||
| Yeah, it's too dangerous. | ||
| But I'm not actually advocating we ought to influence the corporations themselves. | ||
| I want to put rules on the politicians. | ||
| If you take money from these sources, then you are in trouble. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right, the corporations can do their thing. | |
| Exactly. | ||
| There are always going to be corrupting influences. | ||
| And they're always going to be trying to corrupt the important legislators themselves. | ||
| So it's the legislators we have to make sure they understand they are the bulwark against these corrupting influences. | ||
| And the fact that they're not at the moment. | ||
| And the fact that it's okay. | ||
| At the moment. | ||
| I mean, I've never taken any corporate money in my channel in my entire life. | ||
| The entire existence of my channel has been entirely crowdfunded through either ad revenue from views, or Patreon, or individual donations, or merchandise sales. | ||
| Small business, that's the thing. | ||
| The idea of taking corporate backing is horrific to me. | ||
| It stands against everything I stand for. | ||
| But it's not that corporate backing in and of itself is wrong, it's that I want to, and I don't want to say remain pure, but I can't think of a better way of expressing that I... You got religious real quick. | ||
| I know, right? | ||
| But I want to maintain that I can always say, look, there is no chance of these factors being an influence over me because I'm dead set against them. | ||
| And I completely agree with Cenk and the Justice Democrats. | ||
| I completely support it. | ||
| Everyone worries that the Justice Democrats are going to go suddenly full SJW. | ||
| OK, so what if they do? | ||
| So what if they go full SJW? | ||
| They're still going to be against money in politics, corporate money in politics. | ||
| That is a noble goal, and we should support it regardless of whether we agree or not. | ||
| If they were full on Christians, like you know, religious, like Christian types, I would | ||
| still support their efforts to try and get corporate money out of politics because it | ||
| has to happen. | ||
| But we can't get that conversation happening while everyone's going, yeah, but what about | ||
| the white people or the black people? | ||
| Fuck the white and black people. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| Oh, this is my identity. | ||
| Oh, that's interesting. | ||
| Actually, it's not. | ||
| Get out. | ||
| You know? | ||
| What are Sargon and Dave's views on the limits of free speech in the UK in light of YouTuber Count Dankula's situation? | ||
| So I don't know about that one specifically. | ||
| Hashtag free Count Dankula, please. | ||
| There is no justification for a man going to court Over what is just a shitpost. | ||
| I mean, you know, there's obviously, I bet you couldn't find a single person who thought he legitimately was promoting Nazism. | ||
| I bet you couldn't find one. | ||
| No one in their right mind is going to stand up and say, you know what, this is him promoting Nazism because he taught, for anyone who doesn't know, he taught his girlfriend's dog to zig hail. | ||
| Which, obviously, is a joke. | ||
| And he literally says in the video, he's doing it to piss off his girlfriend. | ||
| Unbelievable. | ||
| And he might go to jail for it. | ||
| I mean, that's truly unbelievable. | ||
| All right, super chat. | ||
| Hey Sargon, do you agree or have seen the 10 natural occurring rules for the skeptic community by Liz Reptile? | ||
| In short, it's a rule for how the skeptic community should conduct in manner of discourse. | ||
| No, but I imagine Liz has thought it through. | ||
| I know Liz Reptile, she's a YouTuber. | ||
| I knew you guys should all check her out. | ||
| She's honest, that's the thing. | ||
| She's honest and reliable. | ||
| I imagine they're probably fairly sensible. | ||
| I haven't seen them though, so don't quote me on that. | ||
| Why do Britons accept the absurd notion that Brexit is a negotiation? | ||
| Brexit means we're out, we're leaving and we don't need your permission. | ||
| Fear mongering from the left. | ||
| It's disgusting. | ||
| They keep going on about a soft Brexit that will keep us inside the single market and the customs union. | ||
| Then we're not leaving the European Union. | ||
| Yeah, and you're also not a democracy in a certain way at that point. | ||
| Well, what's worse is we also don't have a say over the European Union. | ||
| So all we're doing is ceding our own power to the European Union. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| We have to leave them. | ||
| And what's even more frustrating is that we'll end up with no deal. | ||
| No, we will end up with a deal because billions of pounds and euros are at stake, and none of the people involved want to lose billions of pounds and euros. | ||
| They will all come to a deal. | ||
| They'll come to a compromise. | ||
| It will be fine. | ||
| Don't worry about the fear-mongering. | ||
| All right, for those just playing along, we got about 10 more minutes Q&A with Sargon of Akkad, back to Patreon. | ||
| Can we have a center when the center won't hold? | ||
| What would a center ideology look like? | ||
| So I think we got that mostly there. | ||
| The center ideology would be a broad liberal. | ||
| The very base of it is we're not going to call each other names. | ||
| That's what it's basically got to be founded on. | ||
| We're not going to accuse each other of being evil. | ||
| The most we can really do is accuse each other of being wrong. | ||
| And when you say, oh, you're wrong, Gone. | ||
| Why am I wrong? | ||
| Then you have to explain yourself. | ||
| Then a discussion happens. | ||
| This is the problem with each extreme. | ||
| They accuse each other of being evil. | ||
| That's a useless term. | ||
| Do you find when you get involved in the shitposting and all that stuff that that in a way can be seen as getting away from that value? | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like if you're really mocking the hell out of somebody sometimes on Twitter. | ||
| By the way, I'm not judging you for it. | ||
| All these platforms are different in a way. | ||
| I'm slightly different on Twitter than I am here. | ||
| So, but do you ever find that that is a bit of a sort of shaving of that idea? | ||
| Like, on Twitter, you're gonna mock some people. | ||
| Well, mockery's fine. | ||
| Mockery isn't saying someone that you're illegitimate. | ||
| In fact, you would only ever mock someone whose views are legitimate. | ||
| You would never mock, like, you know, I don't make videos about... | ||
| Like, I don't know, Alex Jones. | ||
| His views aren't legitimate. | ||
| They're crazy views. | ||
| And so I don't need to talk about them. | ||
| I don't need to mock them. | ||
| In fact, I enjoy Alex Jones because of how crazy they are. | ||
| I'm always like, Jesus, what is he going to say next? | ||
| There's no need to mock it, because it's funny on the face of it. | ||
| You can only mock things that are sensible, or at least have a logical foundation, even if they're completely wild and wrong. | ||
| Have you seen Oliver Stone's interview of Putin and what's your opinion of Putin as the leader of Russia? | ||
| I haven't. | ||
| Putin is a great statesman. | ||
| He's a very clever man. | ||
| He understands power politics and he's a Russian nationalist. | ||
| He's a patriot. | ||
| He's not a good man, and you shouldn't expect your leaders to be good men, especially if they come from authoritarian countries like Russia. | ||
| Same with Assad. | ||
| These are not good people morally, but they are efficient people, and they do have an ethical standard that they adhere to as in the benefit of their own people, and that unfortunately comes at the detriment of others. | ||
| And that can include some people who become a threat to their own position in the country. | ||
| I know this is going to get misinterpreted as me saying Putin's a good man, No, he's not. | ||
| On a moral level, he's undoubtedly highly immoral, like Litvenko. | ||
| Dozens of journalists probably have disappeared. | ||
| But unfortunately, that's the nature of being an autocrat. | ||
| It's not my choice. | ||
| I don't like autocracy. | ||
| That's why I'm in favor of democracy. | ||
| But, you know, it's just the way life is. | ||
| How would you suggest opening the mind of an indoctrinated normie about the toxic ideology of SJWs, their hypocrisy, and the outrage machine keeping oppression relevant in a modern Western society? | ||
| I mean, what's the best way to open that door? | ||
| It depends on the individual. | ||
| It depends what they care about. | ||
| I guess you could look at it through political philosophy. | ||
| For example, if you're talking to a socialist, the best thing to do is hit them economically. | ||
| So explain to them, look, show me where socialism has made people richer. | ||
| Because they'll never do it. | ||
| They'll never tell you that socialism will make the poor wealthy. | ||
| If it's not going to make the poor wealthy, what good is it? | ||
| You know, your problem is the poor are too poor and they can't get anywhere. | ||
| Well, that's not going to help them, is it? | ||
| You know, you've got to attack them on the axis that they're concerned about. | ||
| And like, I don't know, name another political philosophy, but you've got to attack them on the things that they put forward you have to refute, rather than providing something that's not directly challenging them. | ||
|
unidentified
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So yeah, you've got to know the person, basically. | |
| Tommy Robinson recently said that the people will start forming militias to address the Islam problem in Britain. | ||
| How likely do you think that is? | ||
| I think we're some way off from militias at the moment, but we've just had our first right-wing | ||
| anti-Muslim terror attack. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the guy did say, you know, I kill all Muslims. | ||
| I've done my part. | ||
| So it's not that I don't think it will happen. | ||
| I think it will happen. | ||
| And I mean, you know, I think we're a way off from it yet. | ||
| But eventually, I mean, you know, we're having terror attacks all the time in Europe. | ||
| You know, you can't go a week without an Islamic terror attack. | ||
| If you don't think something has to be done about that, you're insane and you're just detached from reality. | ||
| And it's not because I hate Muslims or I give a shit. | ||
| It's because I'm looking at the objective reality that people will do something. | ||
| They're going to do something. | ||
| It's not whether I think good or bad. | ||
| What do you think is going to happen? | ||
| Well, I think the right wing is going to come and do something terrible. | ||
| So let's jump in before they do. | ||
| What's the problem? | ||
| Well, usually radical hate preachers in mosques and the Couple of professors from the, I think it was University College London, had basically done a study on this and they spent eight years or something tracking all of this. | ||
| They were like, look, people aren't getting radicalised from the internet, they're getting interested in radicalisation from the internet. | ||
| What it takes is like a personal connection with someone. | ||
| So it's when they go to the mosque and then they speak to the... They hear ISIS propaganda. | ||
| They go to the mosque, speak to the radical hate preacher who's saying basically the same thing, and he effectively recruits them into a network, which is essentially what Andy Chowdhury did, and all the Finsbury Park mosque boys did. | ||
| So it's that nexus that we have to hit, because these are the guys preaching hate, you know. | ||
| And Imam Tawidi made a good point. | ||
| It's like, he went down to his local market in Australia and got an al-Qaeda flag. | ||
| It's like, Jesus Christ! | ||
| You know, you may as well be selling swastikas. | ||
| You know, it's exactly the same thing. | ||
| And so, yeah, we need to hit it at the preachers. | ||
| Other people, you know, actually disseminating this nonsense. | ||
| All right, we're gonna go about four more minutes with Carl right here, | ||
| and then we're gonna do a rapid-fire segment on Patreon. | ||
| I am just taking full-on advantage of you as you're slightly jet-lagged. | ||
| I'm quite jet-lagged. I've had like five hours sleep in the last like 36 hours. | ||
| You seem to have a serious command of the issues for someone with a whiskey and not much sleep. | ||
| I've been thinking about it a lot. | ||
| Hey Carl, love your content. | ||
| How would you say your political statements have affected your personal relationships, if at all? | ||
| Oh, not at all. | ||
| All of my friends. | ||
| Honestly, my political positions haven't really changed. | ||
| I reasoned myself into my politics. | ||
| I mean, my parents were not really very political at all. | ||
| They weren't religious. | ||
| And so the concern was about interpersonal relationships. | ||
| And this is the thing that drives me crazy. | ||
| The concept of personal honor has been completely destroyed in the West. | ||
| And I don't understand why. | ||
| If you're not going to treat someone else with respect, why should you expect respect in return? | ||
| And that supersedes, in my opinion, any political position. | ||
| I will happily have a polite conversation with a neo-Nazi, or a communist, or anyone I find despicable on an ideological level. | ||
| Because it's more important, in my opinion, To have the polite conversation and to be able to actually have a dialogue, you know, and to show, if you show respect to someone else, then regardless of what their ideology tells them to do, they will find themselves hindered doing anything to you from their personal respect to you. | ||
| That's what honor is. | ||
| And so it's, I think that's more important than politics. | ||
| But yeah, my parents were broadly apolitical and so I, I mean I read Das Kapital and I felt myself getting a bit socialist when I was like 22 or something and then I read Nietzsche and thus spoke to Zarathustra and I didn't know what to make of it because I didn't understand it at the time and yeah and so over the years I've basically just been thinking about it and thinking well no I think you know like liberalism is the best | ||
| And it's the most reliable and the safest structure for human rights and for what I consider to be the correct, proper value system. | ||
| Yeah, I couldn't agree more. | ||
| All right, let's try to knock out a couple real quick. | ||
| If there was a centrist party in the UK, would you try to lead it? | ||
| Oh, no, I don't wanna get into politics. | ||
| Done. | ||
| Will someone want to know the top five books that we would both want them to read that relate to this? | ||
| I mean, On Liberty to me is the one. | ||
| Right, yeah, Road Surfdom, I mean, honestly, it's not really liberalism you have to read to understand social justice. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| You need to read, like, The Prince, you need to read... | ||
| What's political? | ||
| Alinsky's one. | ||
| Oh, Rules for Radicals. | ||
| Rules for Radicals, yeah. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| So your argument is read their shit, basically. | ||
| Well, no, it's not their shit. | ||
| That's the thing, right? | ||
| Power politics is an entirely separate lens. | ||
| It underlies everything that everyone does, but nobody understands it. | ||
| Read, yeah, so read The Prince, read Rules for Radicals, read Robert Greene, 48 Laws of Power, 33... | ||
| What the hell was the name of it? | ||
| I can't remember. | ||
| I'm a real lightweight, and I'm feeling kind of light-headed. | ||
| Yeah, you're doing fine. | ||
| You're doing fine. | ||
| But basically, yeah. | ||
| And then read something historical. | ||
| I mean, Plutarch. | ||
| Anything by Plutarch is fantastic. | ||
| Because that gives you... He was an ancient moralist. | ||
| Beautiful read. | ||
| And maybe that's just my own personal preference, but... | ||
| Yeah, I think also, just on a broad sense, just knowing some history. | ||
| Not even political philosophy, I'm just saying history, because when I was in it with the progressives, I would have conversations with people that were public people, and we'd start talking history, and I'd go, man, you don't know basic history. | ||
| History. | ||
| I'm not just talking American history. | ||
| I'm talking history of the Middle East, of Europe, like just basic stuff. | ||
| Know some basic stuff so that your arguments have some value. | ||
| What's interesting about history is that almost all of like political history that you read is actually the history of power politics. | ||
| You know what you're reading is the interactions of rulers and nations with each other and that gives you the fundamental education of what power politics is and it's important because it's in everywhere it's in everyone's lives they just don't really understand and don't really think about it and it's it's cruel as well that's the thing people got understand that you can't You can't expect interpersonal interactions to go along that line. | ||
| And when you see someone who is, like the social justice warriors, everything they do is power politics. | ||
| And they don't even realize it. | ||
| They don't even realize it. | ||
| But look at the definitions. | ||
| What's racism? | ||
| Prejudice plus power. | ||
| That's everything. | ||
| Sexism. | ||
| Prejudice plus power. | ||
| Everything about it is power politics. | ||
| I don't think they understand it, but if you understand history, you understand Alinsky, Robert Greene, Machiavelli, and if you're a liberal, read, you know, whatever, you know, whatever liberal, classical liberal authors you want. | ||
| Then you can understand why they think what they think, even if they don't. | ||
| Well said. | ||
| All right, I want to end us here on a big one. | ||
| There's a lot about centrist parties. | ||
| That seems to be a big thing. | ||
|
unidentified
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People want us to run as centrist candidates. | |
| Okay, this is a good one because I think it encapsulates a lot of what we do. | ||
| Do you think that mainstream journalism will ever recover? | ||
| The fact that people come to people like us now for news or for opinion or whatever. | ||
| I think it'll be people like Tim Poole in the future. | ||
| I think he gets a lot of support on Patreon and on YouTube, and with good reason, because he is an actual journalist. | ||
| And I love seeing him on Twitter. | ||
| He's about where we were, like, about a year ago or two years ago, where he's just like, Jesus Christ, journalism is awful. | ||
| It's just activism. | ||
| It's like, yes, dude. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You know, that's all it is these days. | ||
| It's about trying to get you to believe something, rather than telling you what's happened and allowing you to make your own decisions, and draw your own conclusions. | ||
| And I think it'll be people like Tim Pool, but don't get me wrong, it's going to take a long time before that happens. | ||
| You know, the institutions that we have now, they're powerful, they're built up, they've got a lot of money. | ||
| They get the stories first, a lot of the time. | ||
| They go to the places, but, you know, independent journalists like Tim Pool do the same, and you have to support these people. | ||
| And, I mean, you know, The important thing as well is, as much as I love Lauren Southern, and I like Lauren Southern a lot, you can see how she's crossing into activism, because she's feeling morally compelled to do something. | ||
| Unfortunately, as a journalist, you have to stand outside of that. | ||
| And that's not to say that what she does isn't valuable, because it is, but it's For a political ideology, rather than for the objective collection of knowledge. | ||
| I wonder, you know, I've had her on the show, I wonder if I said to her, you know, flat out, do you consider yourself an activist at all? | ||
| Is your journalism journalism? | ||
| I think she would understand that what she does is activism as well as journalism. | ||
| I'm sure she would. | ||
| Which also shows that the rules have just changed to the point where someone that's heard that maybe is a little more of an activist than a journalist or both or whatever, I don't wanna speak for her, that there's a space for that now. | ||
| Oh yeah, yeah, it's not very safe. | ||
| Because everyone's doing their own thing. | ||
| Yeah, it's not invalid or anything. | ||
| I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing activism. | ||
| But I think the real journalism, the real scoops, will come from people like Tim Paul, who understand objectivity, neutrality, and the presentation of information, honestly, is more important than activism. | ||
| Because when you're doing activism that's sliced in with journalism, there will come a time where you Find yourself skewed in favor of the activism rather than the journalism, because the journalism contradicts what you want your activism to be. | ||
| And that's your bias. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, those things have to come in conflict at some point. | |
| Honestly, I love Tim Poole's work because he is just giving me the facts. | ||
| He just gives me the information and I will make the decision of what I think the interpretation of that is. | ||
| And that is what we need more of. | ||
| And I think that eventually will be the future, but it's going to be a long way to get there. | ||
| And the establishment that we have now, I mean, the Wall Street Journal and the Times attacking YouTube, that's just the beginning. | ||
| They're going to keep going. | ||
| So, if you have a favorite, like, I mean, literally, you don't need to support me. | ||
| The people who back me on Patreon and buy my shits and stuff, I don't need any more support. | ||
| It's people like Tim Poole. | ||
| And it's not even Tim Poole. | ||
| Tim Poole's doing great as well. | ||
| It's the next journalist who's like, look, I'm going to go somewhere, or Luke Rudowsky or whatever. | ||
| These guys who are going to actually go there. | ||
| Because I am a fat, lazy bastard. | ||
| I don't want to go anywhere. | ||
| It took me a long time to come here, and it took a long time coming. | ||
| I don't wanna go anywhere, I don't wanna do anything. | ||
| I'm happy to talk about what other people find, but it's the folks who are gonna get off their asses and actually get to those places, support those people. | ||
| Donate to their Patreons. | ||
| Well said, brother. | ||
| I'm glad we did this actually in real life. | ||
| And by the way, you ended the first hour on a beautiful sort of, you brought it all together very nicely. | ||
| You ended this by giving a shout out to Tim, who I did two hours with today by complete coincidence. | ||
| Yeah, I didn't even know. | ||
| I was actually trying to work it, so I didn't have to do both of these on the same day, so I guess there's something happening here. | ||
| Oh yeah, I think there's something, the woke centrists are getting woke. | ||
| Yeah, all right, and for the rest of you guys, thanks for watching all day, four hours of this stuff. | ||
| I hope you enjoyed it, and I'm guessing most of you know where to find Carl on YouTube, but just put Sargon, is it just slash Sargon of Picard? | ||
| Yeah, or just Sargon into Google, and I'm the first thing that comes up. | ||
| I'm so sorry, historical Sargon, I'm so sorry. | ||
| Alright, well thank you Carl, aka Sargon of Akkad, and let's get some beers and some, you know, a burger, but we're gonna do it. | ||
| Oh yeah. |
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