March 17, 2017 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
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| Is it just me or is internet culture, the trolling, the outrage, and the endless hate | ||
| starting to eat itself? | ||
| This election obviously brought out the worst in almost everybody from real people to twitter eggs and anime avatars. | ||
| People are constantly attacking others online and saying things they would never dare say to someone's face in real life. | ||
| The really scary part of this though isn't the words, you guys know I love free speech, but there seems to be no bottom to this hole of anger. | ||
| Just think about your Facebook and Twitter feeds for a moment. | ||
| Are they enlightening, interesting and bringing joy and goodness to your life? | ||
| Or are they an endless cascade of rants and raves, psychotic ramblings, endless fighting and nonstop virtue signaling? | ||
| I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that for most of you, the answer is the latter, not the former. | ||
| And yes, there are also a lot of baby pictures on Facebook, which can be quite annoying. | ||
| What I think is most interesting about our constant state of bickering isn't the obvious fact that the internet can bring out the worst in all of us, but that it seems to me that this behavior and the reaction to it is now bleeding out into the real world. | ||
| I'm slammed with emails every day in which people explain to me how they are suffering real world consequences for what they post or even what they don't post online. | ||
| People are getting fired over tweets, losing friends over Facebook posts, and God only knows what's happening on Snapchat. | ||
| But perhaps worse than all of this is the chilling effect that this state of outrage has on the rest of us. | ||
| This is why I've said it before and I'll say it again, the biggest threat to free speech is that we are actively silencing ourselves, not that the government is silencing us. | ||
| The threat to free speech isn't just that protesters are violent at a Milo event, it's the trickle down effect that that has. | ||
| Now they're violent at events for people like conservatives and libertarians such as Ben Shapiro and Charles Murray. | ||
| But of course it won't stop there either. | ||
| Eventually they'll come for liberals too, while at the same time plenty of other people who just won't want to deal with the threats simply won't accept invitations to speak in the first place. | ||
| The outrage machine will just dull us all down to the point where we won't share any original thought because we just won't want to deal with the repercussions. | ||
| This is exactly what's happening with Trump right now. | ||
| The mainstream media and the twitter brigade go bananas every time anything happens. | ||
| The result is that people won't be able to gauge the proper outrage if he does do something that truly warrants it. | ||
| Yes, he eats his steak with ketchup while it is well done. | ||
| That sounds horrible to me, but you've got to deal with it. | ||
| Remember the boy who cried wolf? | ||
| Now we've got the media who cried Trump. | ||
| You think I'm being alarmist here? | ||
| Well, do we seem more politically correct or less politically correct than 5 years ago? | ||
| What about 10 years ago? | ||
| Do you find yourself censoring yourself more or less now than you did even last year? | ||
| Who is forcing you to censor yourself? | ||
| Is it the government? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| I bet you need only look in the mirror. | ||
| And guess what? | ||
| This creep of stifling speech for fear of being ostracized isn't going to magically reverse itself. | ||
| We have to proactively fight it and we should have started this a long time ago. | ||
| Take a minute and think about our current television programming. | ||
| Could all in the family, arguably the best sitcom in television history, with a bigoted yet lovable Archie Bunker possibly be on network television today? | ||
| The beauty of Archie was that we all know someone like him whether that person is white, brown, or blue. | ||
| Only through seeing these people, poking fun at them, and showing the short-sightedness of bigotry can we change our society to be more thoughtful and decent for everybody. | ||
| Even when I watch Seinfeld, with all of its quirky racially based characters, jokes about gays, women and everyone else, I think that the authoritarians will come for the show about nothing, which was really a show about everything, one day as well. | ||
| It won't be the government kicking Jerry and the crew off the air, it'll be the next generation of social justice warriors Upset about the episode where George wanted a black friend, or where Kramer wouldn't wear the AIDS ribbon, or the ones with characters like Ping, the Chinese delivery guy, or Babu, the Pakistani restaurateur. | ||
| Beyond the outrage machine, there is another nefarious layer here, which is a whole group of people who get off on the outrage itself. | ||
| This is the group of people who react to anything and everything so to get clicks and ultimately money from our constant state of outrage. | ||
| So when PewDiePie makes a stupid joke about Jews as he did a couple weeks ago, the bigger reaction is from those who want to capitalize on the moment Rather than those who are actually outraged by the joke itself. | ||
| Then the mainstream media gets involved, with the Wall Street Journal writing about the incident, which subsequently led Maker Studios to end their contract with PewDiePie. | ||
| This destructive force will take anyone down who has moved up too far. | ||
| The YouTubers attacking PewDiePie wish they had his 55 million subscribers, and the Wall Street Journal sees how his influence, believe it or not, is now dwarfing their own. | ||
| As online culture gets woven into every facet of our lives, it's vital we all pick up and choose our spots when to fight and when to be outraged. | ||
| If we're outraged at everything, then we're outraged at nothing. | ||
| If we spend all day online trying to find enemies, well then guess what? | ||
| Enemies will present themselves. | ||
| Making some intellectual point over an opponent has value, but we have to be careful that the value isn't because of the retweets and the favorites it garners. | ||
| I'm sure I could be better at some of this myself, especially on Twitter. | ||
| Trolls are always going to troll, but those of us who want to change things for the better have to actually be better ourselves. | ||
| Final thought, I was a guest on the Alex Jones Live show last week as some of you may have seen. | ||
| I'm not even fully familiar with Alex beyond the little bites I see of him screaming and generally going nuts. | ||
| That said, the guy has a huge audience and is clearly influential as mainstream media crumbles and online media rises. | ||
| As I've said before, this comes with both positives and negatives, but regardless, the fact is, the guy is talking to a huge amount of people. | ||
| Immediately when I got the request to be on the show I thought that I shouldn't do it because of the ton of hate that I was about to get. | ||
| Then I realized that if I didn't do the show I would only be holding myself hostage to the very same ideas which are silencing so many other people right now. | ||
| So I did the show, with no preparation or advanced questioning, and Alex let me say what I wanted to say. | ||
| While I got the usual hate from the usual haters just for appearing on the show, I also know that I got some of the ideas that I care about to be heard by his large audience. | ||
| Now, maybe some of them will come here and learn more about the issues that you and I care about. | ||
| If you're one of those new viewers, welcome. | ||
| I don't yell as much, but I think you'll dig it around here. | ||
| But, for the record, I do not believe that a secret group of lizard people are leading a shadow government which is trying to undermine our freedoms. | ||
| Obviously, it's actually a group of frogmen led by Pepe and they're actually a bunch of freedom fighters. | ||
| Good luck to us all. | ||
| David Horowitz, welcome to The Rubin Report. | ||
| Thank you, Dave. | ||
| What are the chances that you ended up being the president of a place called the David Horowitz Freedom Center? | ||
| That is incredible. | ||
| I actually fought that name, but my board said, I had named it the Center for the Study of Popular Culture. | ||
| As a leftist, I thought, it's very hard to attack a center for studying anything, let alone just... But conservatives see the word culture and they think left. | ||
| And it was just confusing. | ||
| So I said, you've got to put your name on it. | ||
| So here we are. | ||
| All right, so I don't know in the years that I've been doing this show that I've read anyone's bio and found it more interesting than your bio. | ||
| At least not someone that was born in the United States. | ||
| I thought it was just, there's so much richness there. | ||
| Your evolution politically, it has a lot to do with some of the things that you write about, about going from the left to the right and all that. | ||
| So I want to start with your history first. | ||
| Your parents were communists. | ||
| Card-carrying. | ||
| Card-carrying communists. | ||
| Not communists like the communists that kids that think it's cool today. | ||
| We're talking old school communists. | ||
| These are people who are part of a vast international conspiracy. | ||
| Orchestrated by Moscow. | ||
| My parents, I don't think my mother ever got a traffic ticket. | ||
| They were very middle class, not break the law. | ||
| But they did hide an East German communist in the basement who the government wanted to deport. | ||
| How did he get to your basement? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| I was very young. | ||
| Did you know there was someone down there? | ||
| I mean, did you know something was going on? | ||
| Oh, Dieter was his name. | ||
| I forgot the last name. | ||
| His brother was the mayor of East Berlin. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But, yeah, they were very conspiratorial. | ||
| They never referred to themselves as communists, only as progressives. | ||
| Even then? | ||
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Because it wasn't a dirty... No, it was very dirty. | |
| It was a dirty word popularly. | ||
| It was a very healthy period, but because this anti-American left, very subversive, Ready to work with our enemies. | ||
| So, you know, a horrible totalitarian dictatorship. | ||
| We're effectively quarantined. | ||
| We lived in a kind of ghetto where you couldn't say what you believed. | ||
| Now that, for a Democrat, or with a small d, for a liberal-minded person, that doesn't seem right. | ||
| But it was actually healthy, given the Cold War at the time. | ||
| So what did it mean at that time? | ||
| You need to have a stigma on people who hate this country. | ||
| And we've lost that completely. | ||
| So we'll get to that part, because that gets to the evolution part of where you're at now. | ||
| So then we were stigmatized. | ||
| But what did they believe? | ||
| Like, what did that actually mean? | ||
| If you said you were a communist in, you know, we're talking the 1940s now. | ||
| Nothing. | ||
| My mother was a registered Democrat. | ||
| I don't think anything different from certainly not the Democratic Party of today. | ||
| Although then, I mean, when Roosevelt was president, they were all happy Democrats. | ||
| When Truman declared that America would defend free peoples fighting for their freedom against the Soviet Union, they all defected and formed the Progressive Party, which was run by the Communist Party. | ||
| Yeah, and then around 1956, if I'm not mistaken, all the information comes out about Stalin and then that sort of... Right. | ||
| That was my way. | ||
| I was 17 at the time and that was my kind of awakening that everything that the William Buckley, who we hated, The right said Stalin had killed 7 million people. | ||
| He actually killed about 40 million. | ||
| And we said this was all anti-Soviet lies. | ||
| The Soviet Union was a paradise of the future. | ||
| Everybody equal. | ||
| Everybody working. | ||
| Everybody happy. | ||
| All lies. | ||
| My community believed them. | ||
| And then Khrushchev came along with this, gave a secret speech that the Israeli Mossad smuggled out. | ||
| And it just, it blew up my community that there were divorces in our, that we knew of, over people dividing over the Khrushchev report. | ||
| People felt betrayed, they had lived a lie. | ||
| And other people felt You know, you continue, you go on, and they defended it. | ||
| And that made marriages untenable. | ||
| Right, you think it's tough now for marriages when people are going, I love Trump, I hate Trump, but that's earth-shaking stuff, your whole narrative. | ||
| Yes, so I came into the, when I went to college, I mean, My mission, self-developed, was to rescue the left from Stalinism. | ||
| I still believed in this future where every, you know, common government ownership of the means of production | ||
| and equality and everything. | ||
| And so I was a fervent new leftist. | ||
| I was one of the, actually one of the creators of the new left. | ||
| I was at Berkeley. | ||
| We published a magazine called Root & Branch. | ||
| But by the end of that decade, it was clear the left was a totalitarian force. | ||
| It was supporting Maoists. | ||
| They were Maoists. | ||
| Mao killed more people than Stalin. | ||
| So you saw that change from what you thought was something decent. | ||
| You saw that basically anything related to authoritarianism would be sort of pieced into this. | ||
| I had two serious deviations. | ||
| I had a nuclear family and everybody else was living in communes or whatever. | ||
| But the more serious one was that I read books. | ||
| I remember when Billy Ayers was elected vice president when the weather people took over SDS. | ||
| This is a college senior. | ||
| He boasted that he hadn't read a book in a year. | ||
| I was horrified, as a leftist, by that statement. | ||
| So his argument was, what, I'm not being programmed by these people? | ||
| No, but he was an irresponsible twit. | ||
| I mean, he came from wealth, very privileged. | ||
| I have nothing good to say about Billy Ayers. | ||
| But by saying, I haven't read a book in a year, how is he trying to impress somebody? | ||
| Well, because the books are written by the ruling class. | ||
| What did Marx say? | ||
| The ruling ideas are the ideas of the ruling class. | ||
| Completely false. | ||
| How would you explain our universities today? | ||
| Marx is full of crap. | ||
| I mean, that's the first thing you have to... | ||
| Yeah, well, we'll get to our universities, don't worry about that. | ||
| But wait a minute, the first one you mentioned there was you came from a nuclear family, and that was then a problem. | ||
| I had a nuclear family. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, you had your own nuclear family at that time. | ||
| My own, I had, I had. | ||
| But you also came from a nuclear family. | ||
| By the end of the decade, I had four children, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so why was that a problem for them? | ||
| Because they want to do this. | ||
| They didn't, I wasn't expelled from the left. | ||
| I was, well, What happened to me was that I edited Ramparts, which was the leading, it was the biggest magazine of the left. | ||
| And a Hollywood producer, producer of Easy Rider, was a big funder and sponsor of the Black Panther Party. | ||
| And he introduced me to Huey Newton because he wanted me to take Eldridge Cleaver had been on our masthead. | ||
| And Eldridge, there was a war. | ||
| It was basically a Black Panther Party is a street gang. | ||
| And this was a Contest for leadership. | ||
| So he, he introduced me and I got involved raising money for the Panthers. | ||
| I raised for a school. | ||
| I was very impressed. | ||
| They had a lot of children and the Panther Party was a mix. | ||
| There were, you know, generally good people and there were gangsters. | ||
| And the good people impressed me. | ||
| And one of them was running the school. | ||
| A school, and they were jammed into a brown shingle house in Oakland. | ||
| I mean, they had double-decker beds from one wall to the other for the kids. | ||
| So I thought this Hollywood producer would give me the money, but it didn't turn out that way. | ||
| But I raised, oh, I think it was $125,000, which is a lot of money in those days, and bought a church. | ||
| A Baptist church in East Oakland that had been overtaken by the inner city. | ||
| It was a white Baptist church. | ||
| And I signed the check. | ||
| I created the Oakland Community Learning Center, a 501c3, to house the school. | ||
| I'll never forget, the minister said to me as I handed him the check, I hope you're not going to turn this over to the Black Panthers or the Nation of Islam. | ||
| Did he know that you were working with them at all at the time, with the Black Panthers? | ||
| He had no idea, so he was literally joking to you. | ||
| Like most of the left today, I had no idea who they were, the Panthers. | ||
| But anyway, I've told this story in Radical Son, my autobiography. | ||
| 1974. | ||
| I recruited the bookkeeper, my bookkeeper at Ramparts, to do the books for the school because I believed our own propaganda that the government was racist and that they would shut down the Panthers if they didn't keep the books, which was ridiculous. | ||
| I mean, look at Jesse Jackson. | ||
| Look at Al Sharpton. | ||
| I mean, he's a huge tax evader. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he's walking the streets because he's progressive and black. | ||
| He's protected. | ||
| And in December 1974, Betty disappeared, and by the time the police fished her body out of San Francisco Bay, I knew the Panthers had killed her. | ||
| I had been interviewed by the police. | ||
| They explained to me lots of things. | ||
| It's very difficult to dispose of a body unless you have an organization, and then it's not so hard. | ||
| You have safe houses and this and that. | ||
| And so when that happened, I was personally Devastated. | ||
| I mean, I was in the same place my parents were, being embarrassed by the cruise ship report. | ||
| Something I swore that would never happen to me. | ||
| I'm curious, were your parents around at the time? | ||
| Yeah, my mother was very, they were worried for my safety, as they should be. | ||
| I was threatened by Elaine Brown, who was the head of the Panthers and is alive today. | ||
| Toasted by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Funded by actually conservatives, often, not always, to speak on college campuses. | ||
| She was the head of the party. | ||
| Wait, why would conservatives fund her now? | ||
| Has she evolved? | ||
| I forget, what's the name of this big Orange County Foundation? | ||
| They gave her $10,000 to speak at, I can't remember, it was UC Santa Barbara. | ||
| The students there informed me. | ||
| No, because conservatives in this country are well-meaning, liberal-minded people, generally, especially the ones with money. | ||
| Give you the benefit of the doubt. | ||
| I mean, here's a black person claiming that America is an oppressive country. | ||
| Oh, sure, here's the money. | ||
| Anyway. | ||
| I was personally devastated. | ||
| I was clinically, I would say clinically depressed for seven or eight years. | ||
| I mean, I wake up in tears every morning. | ||
| I felt responsible for having recruited Betty. | ||
| Her name was Betty Van Patten, the woman who was murdered. | ||
| She was a mother of three children. | ||
| The ideology is so pernicious that on the way to Betty's funeral, her daughter, who worked for me and was, I don't know, she was 19 or 20 at the time, I tried to warn her. | ||
| I mean, I was afraid for my children. | ||
| And I said, I think the Panthers killed your mother. | ||
| And her response was, no, they're good people. | ||
| So I set out then to warn, when I had sort of assimilated all this, my mission was to warn other people. | ||
| And that's how I know that Barack Obama's a communist. | ||
| All right, so wait, let's pause before we jump to modern day. | ||
| Because everything that you just described there was why I thought your bio was so interesting, because you grow up With communists, I didn't know about the guy in the basement, but you were firmly on the left your whole first 40 some odd years. | ||
| I was a Marxist. | ||
| I wrote a book called Empire and Revolution, which the left used. | ||
| Right, so leftist, communist, Marxist. | ||
| Yeah, Paul Berman, for example. | ||
| He said of my book that it was like a, I don't know what he said, a handbook, a bible for the left, before he called me a renegade for leaving the left. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| So you're a hero, but the second you now change, now of course... If you deviate from the party line. | ||
| This is what political... | ||
| Don't realize political correctness is a term that Mao Zedong, the greatest mass murderer in human history, invented to shut people up. | ||
| It's the party line. | ||
| If you deviate from the party line, they throw you into the cold. | ||
| Yeah, all right, so now we're, let's flash forward, unless there's something major. | ||
| Or shoot you. | ||
| Or shoot you, right, so they, first they silence you, then they shoot you, you know. | ||
| So unless I'm missing something, I think we can flash forward now to around 85, which is really when you, Ben, said. | ||
| That's right, what happened was, When this happened, I had left Ramparts with Peter Collier, who was my buddy, and it was Peter's idea to write a dynastic biography. | ||
| The Goldsworthy saga was on PBS at the time, so it was a generational saga. | ||
| So I was in the midst of writing a book on the Rockefellers, which became a bestseller. | ||
| And then we were asked to do a book on the Kennedys, which came out in 1985. | ||
| And when it came out, it was the number one New York Times bestseller. | ||
| And the Washington Post, the editor of the Washington Post Sunday Magazine called me to pick my brain about young Joe Kennedy, who was a congressman. | ||
| And he said, what have you guys been doing? | ||
| I go, oh, you won't believe this, but Peter and I just voted for Ronald Reagan. | ||
| And neither Peter and I had talked before casting that vote. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Oh, that's a good story. | ||
| You want to write it? | ||
| So our story was better run than read, but he renamed it Lefties for Reagan. | ||
| And that's when the knives came out. | ||
| And Peter said to me at the time, I'll just show you how deep the current rot, the fake news is. | ||
| We were front page New York Times, both books, both the Rockefellers and Sunday Times. | ||
| And the New York Times sets the standard for all the media. | ||
| They even reprint the reviews. | ||
| And when our article came out and we voted for Reagan, Peter said to me, our literary careers are over. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I said, you must be joking. | ||
| So you really had no idea? | ||
| I had no idea. | ||
| Even though you knew some of the tactics? | ||
| But it was exactly right. | ||
| That was the end. | ||
| My last 20 books, the New York Times, they noticed one and called me a relic for using the word communist. | ||
| That was just a squib. | ||
| I've never been a realist about that. | ||
|
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Not that way. | |
| all the tactics that could be coming down your way and the way you'd be treated. | ||
| I've never been a realist about that. | ||
| So that's it, you just weren't a realist in your own, even though you saw, you had such a history | ||
| of seeing what would happen. | ||
| Yeah, not that-- | ||
| Parents and communism, Black Panther. | ||
| I can never believe that people can be so ideological and so duped and I should know. | ||
| Yeah, I think I'm suffering from a little of this right now and I'm meaty. | ||
| The rubber's meeting the road with me at the moment. | ||
| But what was it? | ||
| Was it something about Reagan or was it really about Mondale? | ||
| It was Reagan. | ||
| This happened earlier. | ||
| I bumped into the parking lot of the Berkeley Co-op, which is a supermarket that everybody liked because it was a cooperative. | ||
| Rolling Stone actually published a story that Peter and I did on the weather underground, telling the truth about it. | ||
| This woman I knew met me in the parking lot and she said, David, you know, people really hate you now. | ||
| The truth about these crazy terrorists is what they were, who got people killed. | ||
| And they hate you. | ||
| Now they hate you. | ||
| They hate me for saying the truth about it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But what was it about Reagan also that then... They hated Reagan the way they hate Trump. | ||
| It was the same kind of hatred. | ||
| Which is, they pick out, it's because he's not one of us. | ||
| It's very visceral. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is that what it is? | ||
| More than anything, ironically, that for the media he's not one of them? | ||
| You know, he was an act. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| The Trump Phenomenon and problem is a little different, but it's not all that different. | ||
| I mean, Reagan was an actor. | ||
| They looked down on that. | ||
| You know, Von Mises wrote a pamphlet, an essay, which is a pamphlet, called The Anti-Capitalist Mentality. | ||
| Why do academics hate capitalism? | ||
| Why are they so left? | ||
| And the answer is because they feel superior to businessmen. | ||
| And here's Trump, the businessman. | ||
| Businessmen are yahoos. | ||
| They have no respect for what it takes to build a billion dollar empire. | ||
| For them, it's all theft or something underhanded. | ||
| It's theft or it's crony capitalism. | ||
| And so Reagan was like that. | ||
| He was an actor. | ||
| How dare he be president? | ||
| We're so much smarter than he is. | ||
| We should be running the country. | ||
| So intellectuals, I think it was about intellectuals generally, they feel that they're smarter than everybody else. | ||
| Right, because they haven't actually created for the most part, so they have to sort of elevate them. | ||
| They think the power should go to them. | ||
| And I learned very early, when I was still a leftist, when Jack Kennedy was assassinated and Lyndon Johnson became president. | ||
| and I was living in England and of course Europeans looked at Americans from the beginning | ||
| of the Republic. | ||
| But LBJ, he had the LBJ cufflinks and the LBJ children and the LBJ dogs and the LBJ, | ||
| you know, so they just thought he was, this is a Yahoo, this is a, you know. | ||
| And Johnson was much smarter than Jack Kennedy. | ||
| He went to East Texas State Teachers College. | ||
| But he, unfortunately, he put in place the Great Society, which is an albatross on America's neck, has been for at least this half century. | ||
| But he was smart. | ||
| He knew how to get it through Congress. | ||
| And Jack Kennedy couldn't get any of it through. | ||
| Yeah, and now Congress barely works. | ||
| So, that's why when Trump came along, I wasn't one of these never-Trumping, inside-the-beltway snobs, although some of my good friends have found that path. | ||
| Okay, so you have this final awakening, you write this thing, then a year later, I think, in 86, you wrote why, was it why I left the left? | ||
| I wrote an essay, look, as I say, I was personally threatened by Elaine Brown. | ||
| And then I have the tape of the, Phone conversation, which he said. | ||
| If you should get run over, David, I'm going to be your best friend because people will say I did it, something like that. | ||
| I mean it was a naked threat. | ||
| So, I was afraid. | ||
| I fed to Kate Coleman, who wrote an article for a now defunct left-wing magazine, what's | ||
| called The Party's Over, about the criminality of the Panthers, which I had discovered by | ||
| personal investigation. | ||
| Well, getting to the Village Voice piece. | ||
| Oh, the Village Voice, yeah. | ||
| So I finally, in 1986, which is, it's a decade later, I wrote a piece, Why I Am No Longer a Leftist, and referred to this. | ||
| I did not name the killers, but I did refer to the murder, that the Panthers had murdered her. | ||
| Paul Berman wrote this piece about the renegade Horowitz, the intellectual life and the renegade Horowitz. | ||
| It was a vicious attack. | ||
| And he had me at the end of his piece cheering on Suicida, who was a psychopath that was a contra in Nicaragua, whom I hadn't even heard of. | ||
| When he called me, he said, and Horowitz is cheering, wakes up the next morning cheering Suicida. | ||
| So basically, you went off the reservation officially with this article, and then you had said the knives were already out, but then- No, it was with the Reagan article. | ||
| Yeah, with the Reagan article was the first- But this one was, this is right, this is right at left. | ||
| Right, so this was, what, it was a year later, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think it was 85 and 86, so a year later, so the knives were already out, and then this was like sort of the final door on- That's right, and so 1986 to 87, that's like 30 years ago, is that when it is? | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Something like that. | ||
| In 30 years, My work has never been taken, the work, the ideas, my arguments with the left, why I'm no longer, I wrote a long essay on leaving the left and why I left it. | ||
| Never responded to. | ||
| The nation made one stab at it, but not a very good one. | ||
| On the other hand, there's like 100,000 attacks on me on the internet from leftists. | ||
| So it's not like they don't think that I need to be refuted. | ||
| They think it's just more effective to pretend. | ||
| Well, if it makes you feel any better, right before we sat down, I was scrolling my Twitter feed and some article was written about me where they referred to me as a right winger and then got a few other things incorrect about me. | ||
| And then my own audience actually started attacking them on Twitter. | ||
| And then they, they didn't issue a retraction, but they changed the headline at least and changed one other thing. | ||
| Which, of course, is not journalistically sound, but I guess maybe I'm picking up some of the heat. | ||
| Well, at first it hurts, but eventually you get to be libel-proof. | ||
| They libel you so much that... It just seems ridiculous, more than anything else. | ||
| It's just lazy, lazy and ridiculous. | ||
| So, you know, I'm an easier target than you are, because I vowed when I left the left that I was going to talk to the left, address them in the same way that they address everybody else. | ||
| Oh, I can talk to them nicely. | ||
| Yeah, you are very hard to demonize. | ||
| I'm sort of easy. | ||
| So when you see, you had some nice things to say about me when you sat down, and when you see someone like me that understands the title of this book, that understands your journey and all that, do you think I was just, even though obviously we have 30 some odd years between us, that I was just late to the game in picking up what was going on here? | ||
| Or do you think something also happened in the last couple of years with the left? | ||
| I think two things, first of all, Starting with the McGovern campaign, that's when it started. | ||
| The communist left infiltrated and took over the Democratic Party. | ||
| I mean, Tom Hayden, who is no longer with us, was a cynical, anti-American, lying radical. | ||
| And he was given the Medal of Freedom by Bill Clinton. | ||
| He was a state legislator in the state of California. | ||
| You can still see his work whenever you see Prop 65 that warns you about the bad effects of chemicals and whatever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh yeah, it's everywhere here in L.A. | |
| But the Democratic Party took the left in. | ||
| The anti-American totalitarian, and I would say racist left, I will explain that more later, but racist left, was taken into the bosom of the Democratic Party in the Clinton administration. | ||
| And with Obama, they got one of theirs in the White House. | ||
| Okay, so let's pause there for a second. | ||
| So when I hear you say that about the Clinton administration, that's hard for me to picture, because those eight years were basically I don't think we saw a lot of what we're seeing right now. | ||
| So what am I missing? | ||
| Well, you didn't know the personalities, for one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's put it this way. | |
| I think back to the Clinton administration very fondly, still, that things were basically... First of all, Bill Clinton's It's not an ideologue in the way that Hillary Clinton is. | ||
| Bill Clinton's ideology was moi. | ||
| That was his ideology. | ||
| But you would argue that's probably a saving grace then. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Corruption is far better than communism. | ||
| If it weren't for the corruption of the Clintons, Bernie Sanders would have been a nominee. | ||
| That's a great quote there. | ||
| Did you just quote, corruption is far better than communism? | ||
| That's a good one. | ||
| It is because you can deal with it. | ||
| It doesn't have the ideology that sweeps people along with it. | ||
| Bill Clinton domestically was a fairly centrist, you know, I don't have too much to quarrel with him there. | ||
| On foreign policy he was terrible, absolutely terrible. | ||
| The World Trade Center was blown up in 1993 by Ramzi Youssef. | ||
| He intended to kill 50,000 people or 200,000 to topple one of the towers on the other. | ||
| The bomb is fired. | ||
| It wounded a thousand people. | ||
| It killed six. | ||
| Bill Clinton never visited the site. | ||
| Dismissed it as an individual criminal act when it was inspired by the blind sheik who's just been... | ||
| Osama Bin Laden should have been stopped in the 90s before the World Trade Center was... I've written a lot about this. | ||
| But in the case of that, in the case of the first World Trade Center bombing, so what do you think was going on then in Bill Clinton's head? | ||
| So this happens. | ||
| He never visited. | ||
| What's the ideology there that would lead him to that? | ||
| That's an interesting question. | ||
| I wish we had a... | ||
| I'll try to get a former administration official in. | ||
| Just to skip ahead, in this book I've written, Big Agenda, I lay out what I think is going on. | ||
| The Democratic Party is now a racist party. | ||
| If you use the phrase, people of color, is a racist phrase. | ||
| Identity politics is racist and it's anti-American. | ||
| The fundamental American idea is that we're all creatures of a divinity or maybe nature's god, whatever Jefferson wrote there. | ||
| And equal in the eyes of our Creator. | ||
| Therefore, we should be treated equally by our government. | ||
| And we have rights that are inalienable that the government can't take away. | ||
| So, it's all about individual freedom and, most importantly, individual accountability. | ||
| When I was a kid in public schools, there was this phrase, regardless of race, color, or creed, an American is somebody who doesn't look at your origins. | ||
| We're a nation of immigrants that way. | ||
| Don't look at your origins. | ||
| Of course, if you come from a terrorist country, maybe we should have a little vetting process. | ||
| Identity politics is the opposite. | ||
| What the left seeks, we are in a civil war situation now. | ||
| And the reason is, the reason it's so irreconcilable is that the left is racist. | ||
| It believes in a racial hierarchy. | ||
| So, if you're the right skin color, which is dark, you go to the head of the line for admissions to college, you go to the head of the line for a job, you go to the head of the line for a promotion, you go to the head of the line for almost anything. | ||
| Everything's not diverse enough, so we'll take anybody. | ||
| So what would you say to the people that would say, well, white people had it good for a long time. | ||
| Yeah, and white people did a lot of bad things and they did good things. | ||
| And one of the good things that white America did was to liberate the slaves. | ||
| People forget that we inherited slavery. | ||
| This is how I made myself notorious in the left by coming out against reparations for slavery 137 years after the fact. | ||
| America inherited a system of slavery. | ||
| Slavery existed. | ||
| I learned this from Orlando Patterson, who is a black left-of-center sociologist at Harvard who's written prize-winning books on slavery and freedom. | ||
| Slavery existed for 3,000 years. | ||
| Nobody ever said it was immoral. | ||
| Not Jesus, not Moses, not Aristotle. | ||
| Until a white Christian males in England, led by Wilberforce, said it's immoral. | ||
| And an American slave owner, Thomas Jefferson, wrote it into the birth certificate of this country, that all men are created equal and are given Right to liberty by their creator. | ||
| Within 20 years, the slave trade was ended. | ||
| The reason that America didn't initiate a civil war in 1776 to free the slaves, one of the biggest reasons, was that England would have come and just retaken the colonies and reinstituted Anyway, and within a generation or a little more, given in those days people lived shorter lives, at the cost of 350,000 Union soldiers, we liberated the slaves and liberated them throughout the hemisphere. | ||
| So, black people, Americans can be very proud of their heritage. | ||
| You know, it's a human heritage, so it's got a lot of bad spots, but you look at any other country in the world, and forgive me, leftists, for saying this one is the best. | ||
| What other country do Asians get in boats and risk their lives to get into? | ||
| You think they're coming here to be oppressed? | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, everybody, everybody wants to be here. | ||
| And then the funny thing is, at the same time, you go to watch some of these protests and the people that are screaming about how racist and evil and patriarchy and all this stuff, they're also the ones calling for open borders. | ||
| They want everyone to share in the horror that is the United States. | ||
| Well, it would just destroy the country, as anybody with any sense knows. | ||
| It's all, let me just say. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The left owes whatever ideas it has to Marx. | ||
| It's the Marxist paradigm of the oppressors and the oppressed. | ||
| And it's an economic, it begins as an economic, and they've layered on race and gender. | ||
| But the fact is, what determines a country's prosperity is culture, not classes. | ||
| It's culture. | ||
| America has a great culture. | ||
| One of the things we do is we take in brilliant people from all over the world and give them freedom to innovate. | ||
| Other countries copy our innovations. | ||
| Israel is the same way. | ||
| It's why they hate it. | ||
| Because they're bringing in people from all over the world, giving them opportunity. | ||
| But also it's the freedom. | ||
| People do not appreciate freedom in this country. | ||
| Obviously, since our universities are now totalitarian institutions, I can't go to a university without bodyguards. | ||
| And that's been true for the last 15 years. | ||
| I've been physically attacked. | ||
| If I didn't have bodyguards, and if the university didn't put in place security, I could never get through a speech. | ||
| And I'm not alone. | ||
| It's any conservative. | ||
| No, it's virtually any conservative, and now it's moderates. | ||
| This is fascism, and it's totally embedded in our university system. | ||
| Do you make a distinction between sort of the leaders who really understand the stuff that you're talking about? | ||
| So the people who are the leaders of this leftist movement versus the bulk of the people who I think are following along without bad intentions. | ||
| Like when I see all these kids who I, you know, I mock them on Twitter. | ||
| Yeah, of course, people go to demonstrations and get laid. | ||
| You know, and people are gullible and they don't think and they can't put two and two together. | ||
| The phrase, which I didn't want to skip this, people of color, is a racist phrase. | ||
| It's not English. | ||
| Do we say, here's a box of crayons of color? | ||
| It's French. | ||
| That's the way French people speak. | ||
| Peuple de couleur, whatever they say. | ||
| So it's a completely ideological construct. | ||
| What is its function? | ||
| Well, let's look at Mexico. | ||
| Two main ethnic groups. | ||
| The descendants of the Spanish conquistadors who slaughtered the indigenous Indians and the descendants of the indigenous Indians. | ||
| When they cross the border, they're both people of color. | ||
| Therefore, they're oppressed. | ||
| Both of them. | ||
| The conquistadors and the indigenous people. | ||
| They're oppressed. | ||
| They deserve special sensitivities and special privileges. | ||
| Maharajas in India are people of color. | ||
| Beheaders in Raqqa are people of color. | ||
| Who aren't people of color? | ||
| White people. | ||
| White people are evil. | ||
| Bad. | ||
| This is the racist ideology of our time. | ||
| Is it also lacking in several other ways? | ||
| I mean, for example, you could take American Indians, people who've moved here from India, or their grandparents moved here from India, or you could take Asian people of virtually any nationality, and they don't count in this leftist thing because they've succeeded economically. | ||
| Because they're successful, while the Indians haven't. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The Native Americans. | ||
| I'm sorry, that was a ridiculous statement. | ||
| You meant Indians. | ||
| Now I'm gonna, we're not gonna edit that out because I don't believe in that, but that was a completely idiotic statement. | ||
| You meant Indians. | ||
| I meant American, I meant Indians from India who moved to America. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Not Native Americans. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Chinese, the Japanese. | ||
| I said American Indians, not Native Americans. | ||
| Yes, that's correct. | ||
| But thank you for believing that. | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| I just ruined my career. | ||
| Of course, they don't like success. | ||
| Don't look over your shoulder. | ||
| There's only arrows, there's only arrows coming. | ||
| That was an Indian joke right there. | ||
| It's pathetic, intellectually. | ||
| They don't have an argument. | ||
| So they have to purge those groups, because those groups... Yeah, that's why they have to shut you up, because they can't deal with your arguments. | ||
| It's really simple, straightforward. | ||
| And it's so invaded our literary culture. | ||
| The last two National Book Awards were given to racist tracts, won by Ta-Nehisi Coates I can never remember the title. | ||
| He was just a rank racist, Coates. | ||
| What inspired him to write the book, it's about how evil America is, was the murder of his friend, not the murder, the killing of his friend by a policeman in Maryland. | ||
| It turns out, as he tells you, that the policeman accused his dead friend of trying to run him over with his car. | ||
| The policeman is black. | ||
| So what does Coates say? | ||
| He was thinking white. | ||
| Now that isn't the purest racism. | ||
| And this one now, it's called Stamped from the Beginning. | ||
| It's a semi-literate book. | ||
| That they have lowered their standards so dramatically, it still shocks me. | ||
| Because these are intelligent people, the people who give the awards, but I should know better. | ||
| But it opens with the police shootings of criminals in the last year, which were totally distorted by Black Lives Matter and other leftists into cops gunning down unarmed blacks. | ||
| These were predators. | ||
| And who did they prey on? | ||
| They preyed on black people. | ||
| Freddie Gray. | ||
| I mean, you know, you could go on. | ||
| I can't even remember the names. | ||
| The guy in Ferguson. | ||
| They're criminals who prey on black people. | ||
| But this guy has them as innocent blacks who are gunned down by racist cops. | ||
| So at the opening of his book, which he has called the definitive history of racism in America, he's exposed as a liar. | ||
| And he won the National Book Award. | ||
| So our institutions have been just generally corrupted. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So what is... By this racist ideology of the left. | ||
| So for a lot of people hearing this, I think a certain amount of people hearing this are gonna go, yeah, I get it. | ||
| See, you don't talk quite like this, which is why I think you're much harder to, I wanna see you with a so-called liberal. | ||
| I don't call them liberals, because they're bigots. | ||
| Yeah, well, I've had many progressives on this show, and I treat them with the same respect that I treat anybody else. | ||
| My general rule is I don't find that berating somebody or belittling them is gonna get me. | ||
| No, but as I say, I made this vow, Thirty years ago, that I was going to berate the left. | ||
| I was going to say, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today? | ||
| I actually, when I was still sort of leaving the left, I thought about that statement a lot, saying, let's see, if I were a prisoner of war and I was in a room with my captor, would I rather it was LBJ or Ho Chi Minh? | ||
| And it was a no-brainer. | ||
| So that's part of it, is that you just constantly say the worst thing about your intellectual opponents because there's no end here. | ||
| They can just constantly say anything to you. | ||
| That's why I love Milo, because he just throws it right back in their face. | ||
| And that's what really needs to be done. | ||
| These people need to be embarrassed, although probably beyond embarrassment. | ||
| I mean, ABC News. | ||
| Stephanopoulos is sitting there with Katrina Bannon, whose entire life has been spent apologizing for, defending, and advancing communist causes. | ||
| The hell is that? | ||
| That's ABC. | ||
| That's how far gone this country is. | ||
| So, are all the answers then for you on the right, or do you have frustrations with the right? | ||
| Because I think right before we started, we only talked for about 30 seconds, but I think you said something effective, I'm still a liberal. | ||
| No, I mean, I, you know, what did I, oh, I took on the leaders of the religious right over Mark Raskol, who was the governor of Montana and was the chairman of the RNC, met with the, I think it's called the Human Rights Association, which is a gay group. | ||
| And he addressed them, or whatever, met with them. | ||
| And he was denounced by Paul Weyrich and some very well-known leaders of the religious right. | ||
| And I wrote an article saying that a political party is not a religious movement, or shouldn't be. | ||
| And it's the job of the RNC chair to reach out. | ||
| And so forth. | ||
| And I've never been an opponent of gay marriage. | ||
| I could go on and on. | ||
| Yeah, and you mentioned before that abortion, although you're not a fan, to say the least, but you are pro-choice, right? | ||
| No, I wouldn't describe myself as pro-choice. | ||
| And it's been a long lifetime of rethinking this issue. | ||
| When I grew up, abortions were illegal after the third month. | ||
| And we know a lot more now, and medical techniques, well, we just know a lot more about fetuses. | ||
| And, you know, if you think about it, they're children from conception. | ||
| I mean, I just, it's not an argument. | ||
| There's a person already. | ||
| You think from the moment of conception? | ||
| Yeah, and the woman, it's not about the woman's body alone. | ||
| You know, I think that fathers are involved as well, but certainly there's a child there. | ||
| So, you know, the argument against it is you want to bring a kid into the world that's going to have an absolutely miserable life because it's a wrong parent at the wrong time. | ||
| You know, and I think the energy should be spent on Finding ways to take care of children that their parents aren't able to take care of. | ||
| It's a very vexed problem. | ||
| I've confronted right-wingers actually within the Heritage Foundation debate. | ||
| who said it's murder. | ||
| I said, well, if you think it's murder, then you should be demanding the execution | ||
| of every mother in America who's had an abortion. | ||
| And if you don't, it's a much more complicated problem. | ||
| So that's kind of where I am. | ||
| What was his response to that? | ||
| And shut him up. | ||
| That gets him real quiet. | ||
| Well, that's why the abortion one to me is one where, I think very good people on both sides of this | ||
| are just struggling with, 'cause it almost is coming down | ||
| to the basic questions of life. | ||
| It is, but you can't discuss basic questions in our political atmosphere, not with the left. | ||
| The left wants to convert everything into a morality play where they're right. | ||
| How much of this is culture? | ||
| Did you see that change, too, that it's just, I know when you're saying that culture is the most important thing, but when did it go from, I was thinking even this morning about- The left started taking over the universities in the 70s, and now they've got the K-12 schools as well. | ||
| And, you know, I conducted a, it was literally a five or six year campaign To try to get an academic bill of rights, really a student bill of rights. | ||
| That students have a right to a professional education and in a democracy that means that professors can express their opinions but they have to present opposing sides of controversial issues in a fair-minded way. | ||
| And I was attacked from one end of the country, the other is a torquemada and a thought controller. | ||
| It was very liberal. | ||
| And I did it all out of their own documents. | ||
| There's a very famous academic freedom statement that was drawn up. | ||
| Well, what's the thought control part of trying to get more thought in there? | ||
| Don't, you know, it can't be logical, a little leftist. | ||
| This is the AAUP. | ||
| These are Stalinists. | ||
| I mean, I debated them across the country. | ||
| They, gosh, I mean, they put me through the ringer. | ||
| But, you know, like I say, you get to a point where you're libel-proof, because they've libeled you so much. | ||
| But they fought it tooth and nail. | ||
| And, for example, I had praised In all of my speeches, this is a 1915 statement on academic | ||
| freedom by the American Association of University Professors. | ||
| And the Penn State still has, or had as its academic freedom provision, the statement | ||
| that it is not the place of a professor in a democratic society to indoctrinate his or | ||
| her students. | ||
| Therefore, they must present divergent opinions in a fair-minded manner. | ||
| That's a paraphrase of it. | ||
| And I praise that. | ||
| And so the head of the AAUP, Carrie Nelson, made it a personal crusade to get that ripped out of the Penn State Academic freedom provisions. | ||
| The so-called liberal person wanted now this to be removed. | ||
| He's a leftist, Kerry. | ||
| He actually, I mean, he's defended me in some places, so he's like an, whatever, he's not quite a doctrinaire. | ||
| But he did, the faculty senate there ripped it out and took out explicitly the thing, it's not the place to indoctrinate a student. | ||
| Do you find when you meet people, maybe some young people that are waking up to some of this stuff, that once they see one piece of it, that the rest of it crumbles very quickly? | ||
| Because I saw it happen with myself, obviously, and for me, it's still an unfolding process, I think, and that's why I'm happy to have these conversations. | ||
| But I see it happening with other people now. | ||
| I get emails every day, people will be like, one little thing happened, and then literally two months later, I now believe everything there is. | ||
| Steve Miller says it was guns. | ||
| That's what turned him from a liberal into a conservative. | ||
| I have somebody who writes occasionally for Front Page, my website, who heard me speak in Camden, New Jersey, and I point it out as I do in my book, Big Agenda. | ||
| Every inner city of any size is 100% controlled by the Democratic Party and progressives. | ||
| It has been for 50 to 100 years, including Camden. | ||
| Milwaukee, Atlanta, Chicago. | ||
| All the killing fields. | ||
|
unidentified
|
St. | |
| Louis, Baltimore. | ||
| Everything that's wrong in the inner cities that policy can affect, Democrats and progressives are responsible for. | ||
| Once you see that, it's all over. | ||
| And then there are people out there screaming that it's Trump's fault that he wasn't even president. | ||
| Here's a leftist mentality. | ||
| When Peter Collier and I wrote this bestseller on the Kennedys, we found ourselves in a green room of Good Morning America, sitting, and there were only three people, the other person was William F. Buckley, and there was dead silence in the room. | ||
| And the reason That Peter and I were silent. | ||
| We had no idea who Buckley was. | ||
| We just knew. | ||
| We didn't want to be nice to a fascist. | ||
| That's what the left called him, a fascist. | ||
| So we didn't want to be nice to a fascist. | ||
| So Peter broke the ice by saying, my mother is a big fan of yours. | ||
| And then we found out from Buckley, who is a very gracious human being, That he was silent because his son had just written a very critical attack on a Kennedy book. | ||
| There was another one that came out and he didn't know if it was ours. | ||
| The lack of civility of the left. | ||
| Yeah, just it's so it's fascist. | ||
| That's what it is. | ||
| And there's no way, I mean the only response you can have is one like Milo's and just go in their face. | ||
| Otherwise, they just shot you down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There is an incredible video that I saw a couple years ago of you at University of San Diego, I think, and a young Muslim student gets up. | ||
| Very articulate with a headscarf. | ||
| Yeah, and at first she opens by thanking you for coming and saying she's for diversity of thought. | ||
| That was sarcastic. | ||
| People can watch it. | ||
| We'll link to it below so people can actually watch the video. | ||
| There's a twang of sarcasm in it, or it was either sarcasm or she was trying to butter you up before she went in for the kill. | ||
| Can you explain the rest of what happened there so that I don't edit it? | ||
| She said, I falsely accused the Muslim Students Association of being a front for the Muslim Brotherhood, which it is, and Hamas. | ||
| And we had distributed a pamphlet showing this. | ||
| So, instead of arguing about whether the Muslim Students Association and Students for Justice for Palestine, they're both Hamas fronts. | ||
| Brotherhood fronts. | ||
| Instead of arguing with her, I just decided to cut to the chase. | ||
| I said, will you condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization? | ||
| And she said, you want to crucify me? | ||
| I said, I don't know how I responded coming in. | ||
| And she said, well, if I don't condemn Hamas, then I will be arrested by the Department of Homeland Security. | ||
| This is how delusional these people are. | ||
| So, I changed the question. | ||
| I had done this at other campuses, so I knew what sort of to expect. | ||
| I said, let me put it to you this way. | ||
| I'm a Jew. | ||
| And the head of Hezbollah says he wants us Jews to gather in Israel so he won't have to hunt us down globally. | ||
| For it or against it? | ||
| She leaned into the microphone and said, for it. | ||
| And she was defended afterwards by the Muslim Students Association, the whole left. | ||
| They're genocidal. | ||
| They want to kill the Jews. | ||
| When she said that, I suspect you were not shocked, as insanely shocking as that sounds. | ||
| No, because I had it at UC Santa Barbara. | ||
| I asked the same question of the head of the Muslim Students Association. | ||
| And he said it was too complicated a question for a yes-no answer. | ||
| Right, genocide's too complicated. | ||
| He was smarter than she was. | ||
| Right, hers was just like... Hers was just showing you what they think and what they want. | ||
| All right, so let's shift to Islam then. | ||
| I've been talking about it and I've tried to bring on, I've brought on liberals to talk about it. | ||
| I've had very measured people like Sam Harris quote Pew polls. | ||
| I've had Ayaan Hirsi Ali on who talks about her own personal experience. | ||
| These are all enemies of the left. | ||
| People who are Majid Nawaz, who's a Muslim reformer. | ||
| Although Harris is, you know, he's still a leftist liberal. | ||
| Yeah, he's a liberal. | ||
| He's a liberal, whether that, I don't wanna speak for him. | ||
| I don't wanna get into any extra trouble. | ||
| But I've had, my point is that I've had plenty of people thought of as liberals or on the left discuss it. | ||
| They get hate from the left. | ||
| Then I've had people more on the right talk about it, such as Lauren Southern and Ben Shapiro and some others. | ||
| And of course, they're gonna get a certain amount of hate for it. | ||
| How do you gauge how much of a problem this actually is at the moment? | ||
| The problem being? | ||
| The problem being Islamic extremism. | ||
| Well, I think Islam is a problem. | ||
| No rational person could not look at Islam and say it's not a problematic religion. | ||
| It preaches hatred against all other religions. | ||
| It sanctions, there's just a series of quotes from the Koran, sanctions, murder, beheading of infidels, which is what we are. | ||
| The Prophet Muhammad has said that the day of judgment will only come When the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. | ||
| When the Jews hide behind the rocks and the trees and the rocks and the trees cry out, oh Muslim, there's a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him. | ||
| Not only is this not repudiated, By organized Islam. | ||
| But it's repeated. | ||
| Yusuf al-Qaradawi said as much. | ||
| The Holocaust was a punishment on Egyptian TV. | ||
| And he is the imam, the leading imam, not only for the Muslim Brotherhood, but for Huma Abedin, Hillary's right hand. | ||
| That's her imam. | ||
| That the Holocaust was God's punishment of the Jews for their corruption, and it will come again, this time a la willing, at the hands of the believers. | ||
| He's a genocidal Nazi, is Garudawi, and he's the imam of Hillary Clinton's right hand and deputy in charge of Muslim affairs for the State Department. | ||
| Yeah, it's a big problem, not a little one. | ||
| And Keith Ellison is the Muslim Brotherhood candidate, is now the number two guy in the Democratic Party, only missed by 13 votes. | ||
| How could the Democratic Party embrace this? | ||
| And Tom Perez is no better. | ||
| But at least Ellison has an open record of being in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood, being supported by them. | ||
| And being a Farrakhan Jew hater, and America hater, and white hater. | ||
| Come on! | ||
| What happened to the Democratic Party? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, and the Farrakhan stuff is amazing, because even in the last couple days, I don't follow Farrakhan on Twitter. | ||
| He's verified. | ||
| Milo's not on Twitter anymore. | ||
| But I was looking at Farrakhan's Twitter feed, or something got retweeted into my feed. | ||
| I mean, it's all, God will destroy America, hate all the Jews, hate white people. | ||
| And he was, for 11 years, a spokesman for the Nation of Islam. | ||
| And you know, people, they have to repudiate what they did. | ||
| This is why I say Barack Obama is a communist. | ||
| He was raised by communists. | ||
| His whole political career, until he became a United States senator, was in the communist left. | ||
| I mean, I know these people. | ||
| If you are part of a movement that you know is evil, the first thing you want to do is warn other people about it, especially when it's so deceptive. | ||
| It talks about social justice and all this crap. | ||
| Anyway. | ||
| But he hasn't, so that's how you know what his allegiances are. | ||
| And when you asked me about the, this was earlier in our conversation, about why is the Democratic Party so soft on Islamic terrorists. | ||
| They're people of color. | ||
| That has to play a big role. | ||
| First thing you do is, oh, we have to understand if they're killing people, it must be because we did something. | ||
| Very sick. | ||
| Yeah, what is that self-flagellation that so many people in the West have? | ||
| It's guilt. | ||
| I mean, Shelby Steele has written... Guilt of success. | ||
| Shelby Steele has written a whole book called White Guilt. | ||
| Yeah, it'll bring down our great civilization. | ||
| If it's that, you know. | ||
| And we haven't talked about Donald Trump, which is the subject of my book. | ||
| Which I think is, I think if we have an antidote, he's it. | ||
| So you really believe that, that Trump and that, you know, I was gonna say a second ago when you were talking about fighting the roots of Islamic extremism, I mean, Bannon, from what I understand, seems to be the architect of that. | ||
| Yeah, he's a good guy, Steve Bannon. | ||
| So you don't believe him to be an anti-Semite? | ||
| Hell no! | ||
| First of all, the chief evidence, there's two evidence given that Steve Bannon is an anti-Semite. | ||
| One is a disgruntled wife in the middle of a divorce proceeding in a custody case who claimed that he said that Jewish children are whiny. | ||
| Which may well be the case. | ||
| The whole ritual of bar mitzvahs, you shower a 13-year-old with tons of money and give them an audience of adults, okay, so they might be whiny. | ||
| It's a lot to deal with. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| But that's certainly not Jew-hating. | ||
| Right, regardless, even if he did say it, that's not, you'd have to... Big deal! | ||
| I mean, he's fighting with a wife over the kids and when they go to school and maybe the school was very expensive, it is an expensive school, the Archer School. | ||
| The other evidence is an article that I wrote, I gave the title to, Bill Crystal Republican spoiler, renegade Jew. | ||
| So people who haven't read the article... I read the article. | ||
| I did not find anything anti-Semitism. | ||
| No, he was a renegade because he's going to return Huma Abedin and Ben Rhodes, who is the architect, one of the architects of the Iran deal, back to power. | ||
| It's a death knell for Israel. | ||
| I mean, what they've done. | ||
| Not to mention the United—I mean, Iran isn't powerful enough to destroy the United States, but its leaders do chant—lead chants of, Death to America! | ||
| That's what they believe. | ||
|
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Why? | |
| If Franklin Roosevelt gave nuclear weapons to Hitler, what would we call him? | ||
| Obama is an American traitor. | ||
| And that's because he's a communist, and always has been, and always will be. | ||
| So I know enough people are gonna watch that and go, wait a minute, but the deal says that they can't get nukes, but you would say, well, it means it expires. | ||
| It expires. | ||
| One, it expires. | ||
| Two, the effect of the deal was to lift the sanctions, bring Iran back into the community of nations. | ||
| He gave them $200 billion, $200 billion, I forget all the payments, and there's no controls. | ||
| But even if there were controls, why would you bring them out of isolation? | ||
| Now Iran is running over the Middle East. | ||
| They overthrew the government in Yemen, which is why we now are losing American lives there. | ||
| Come on! | ||
| Anyway, so that's why I sought the crystal. | ||
| And I didn't attack Crystal during the campaign. | ||
| You know, look, I can see Donald Trump. | ||
| I can see why he upsets some people. | ||
| I can see how, in my view, they're exaggerated. | ||
| You know, whatever, the fears. | ||
| I don't think for a second that he's anti-Mexican or bigoted in any way. | ||
| And I'm one of those people who says, well, look, he's been in public life for 30 years. | ||
| He didn't become a racist until he was running against a Democrat for crying out tears. | ||
| But I could see how people would get bent out of shape during the campaign. | ||
| But once he's the nominee, Then it's him or Hillary. | ||
| And if it's Hillary, it's Huma Abedin. | ||
| I mean, it's the whole anti-Israel crew. | ||
| So you can sympathize then with Bill Kristol's intent. | ||
| So Bill Kristol, who wanted conservatism, what's thought of as real conservatism to live forever. | ||
| These are people treating politics as a religion. | ||
| If you don't refer to the United States as a constitutional republic, you're not a conservative. | ||
| If you don't use the phrase limited government, he never said that. | ||
| Look what he's doing now. | ||
| I mean, he's cutting the government in a big... I mean, it's just crazy. | ||
| He won me over this way. | ||
| I mean, I was nervous about him through the campaign because you don't know. | ||
| You know, this is his first venture into politics. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I'm not nervous about him anymore, although I think he'll disappoint me on some things. | ||
| But he won me over in the first debate. | ||
| Here's a guy, he's never been a political candidate before. | ||
| He's on a platform with 12 of, you know, the top Republicans in the country. | ||
| It's in front of, I don't remember, it's 30 million people or whatever it is. | ||
| And he gets the first question, because he has the highest percentage in the polls. | ||
| And it's not a question, it's an attack from Megyn Kelly. | ||
| You called women fat pigs, slobs, and dogs. | ||
| And he says, oh, that was just Rosie O'Donnell. | ||
| I said, this guy is a guy they can't intimidate. | ||
| Because political correctness is a party line. | ||
| As I said, it comes from Mao. | ||
| It's like a communist party line. | ||
| It shuts you up. | ||
| There is no other Republican under the sun who on national TV, this time in front of 50 million people, would have looked Hillary Clinton in the eye and said, you're a liar and a crook, even though she's both. | ||
| If it were a male, they would say it. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Because there's this gigantic double standard. | ||
| It's politically incorrect to say anything critical about a woman. | ||
| This is ridiculous. | ||
| If that's the case, they shouldn't be in politics. | ||
| Now, the left will just take out that phrase. | ||
| They shouldn't be in politics. | ||
| But you can't be protected and at the same time pretend to be strong. | ||
| You know, it's interesting how pernicious some of this stuff is, because I'll even see sometimes if a man attacks me on Twitter, not that Twitter fights are that important, but I'll immediately defend myself and come back. | ||
| And I've had a few instances where women have, and I've just ignored it because I don't want to attack a woman. | ||
| And I know that's my own, it's just my own reflection of what I'm, Yeah, we've all been schooled in that. | ||
| And there's penalties. | ||
| You have to think quickly about what the consequences are. | ||
| How do you phrase it? | ||
| So that desire to punch back or to not be held hostage by political correctness or all that stuff, would you argue that that is far more important than any of his political beliefs? | ||
|
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Totally. | |
| That's the end. | ||
| Once I saw, here's a guy who the Democrats can't intimidate. | ||
| I use this phrase in my speeches. | ||
| Whenever I see a Republican square off against a Democrat, it looks to me like Godzilla versus Bambi. | ||
| Because the Democrat is going to call the Republican a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, an Islamophobe, and the Republican will call the Democrat a liberal. | ||
| Who's going to win that argument? | ||
| So this is a bulldozer, or—and I love the way they call Trump a blitzkrieg, the Democrat blitzkrieg. | ||
| We have a tradition in this country. | ||
| It's sacred to a democracy of a honeymoon for an incoming president. | ||
| It says there's a peaceful transition of power. | ||
| It says we're all part of one community. | ||
| It says we're going to see what you do, and then we're free to criticize you. | ||
| And the remedy is the next election. | ||
| Trump didn't get seven seconds. | ||
| He didn't get confirmation hearings. | ||
| He got a witch hunt. | ||
| And this is another example of how political correctness works. | ||
| Jeff Sessions. | ||
| I've known him for 20 years, and I've known a lot of senators, one of a handful of the most decent human beings in the Senate, a champion of civil rights. | ||
| This was an attorney general in a deep South state who prosecuted the Ku Klux Klan, who desegregated the schools, and there's Elizabeth Warren calling him a racist, and then violating Senate rules to repeat calling him a racist, and when she's told to shut up, they say, Oh, they're silencing another woman. | ||
| That's how effective political correctness is. | ||
| To be clear for people that didn't follow that whole thing, she was reading other people's words, which isn't technically allowed in the Senate, so that she was doing something that she wasn't allowed to do by their own rules. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And it was happening to be a letter from Coretta Scott King that she was repudiated. | ||
| What happened was, In Alabama, there were three blacks who were defrauded of their voting rights because they were in opposition to three other blacks who were NAACP corrupt officials. | ||
| That's the whole case. | ||
| And Sessions didn't know how to defend himself the first time he was up in the 80s. | ||
| I mean, this is the thing. | ||
| Republicans are not used to fighting back. | ||
| That you're used to getting out of the way. | ||
| Why wouldn't you if people are calling you racist, sexist, homophobe? | ||
| So it's obvious to me that that stuff is not working as much anymore. | ||
| So then my last question to you- Terrific, that is amazing. | ||
| Right, so the words aren't, but what I now think is we're gonna see more violence because they've been pinned into a corner where everyone that they're against is a Nazi and a racist and all those things. | ||
| We will see violence. | ||
| So I suspect we're gonna see more violence. | ||
| But my last question to you is, With this evolution, with now the first Republican, as you're saying, with Trump that's not gonna take it, what's the good path now? | ||
| If you could see something good coming out of these next couple years, what is that path? | ||
| You know, Antonio Gramsci once said that, The revolutionary must have pessimism of the intellect and optimism of the will. | ||
| And I think he stole that from somebody. | ||
| I can't remember who, but I think he did. | ||
| It's in Wikipedia. | ||
|
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Well, if it's in Wikipedia, it's definitely stolen from somebody. | |
| Yeah, you know, my head won't tell me that nothing as good is going to come. | ||
| And you can see, I mean, there's so many, so many problems. | ||
| You know, as I pointed out in my book, Big Agenda, the left, the Democratic Party, It's a totalitarian party now. | ||
| It lied to get Obamacare, and lied about you can keep your doctor, lied about you can keep your plan, and its mission was control. | ||
| It's an incredible assault on individual freedom. | ||
| The government tells you you have to have insurance. | ||
| The government tells you you have to have, you have, what are they, four packages? | ||
| This is the kind of insurance you have to have, and the government gets All your health information. | ||
| That is a totalitarian threat right there. | ||
| But Republicans, they're lame. | ||
| Why aren't they saying that? | ||
| So replacing Obamacare is obviously, you know, as we're speaking, and Republicans are all in disarray. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know what's going to happen. | ||
| Trump is fairly isolated. | ||
| You have all these conservative idiots like Crystal and McMullen gunning for him. | ||
| Republicans march to their tune of their own. | ||
| Is that it? | ||
| Drummers. | ||
| All the time. | ||
| They're individualists. | ||
| I was amazed when the Tea Party came and held a demonstration in Washington. | ||
| Before that, you couldn't get three Republicans to march together, because they'd look at each other and say, what are we, collectivists? | ||
| So does that then, I already said it was the last question, but we'll keep going for a little bit. | ||
| So does that though, so when the Tea Party organized, and the Tea Party was gaining momentum, everyone was saying there were these redneck, backward, gun nuts, racists, and blah, blah, blah. | ||
| And in fact, they were very decent people who cleaned up after themselves. | ||
| That's what I was saying. | ||
| Where the left is just destructive. | ||
| Nobody was hurt, there was no violence, cops weren't hurt. | ||
| Fascists. | ||
| When people start referring to the left as fascists and not liberals, Then I'll say, OK, we're winning now. | ||
| Right now it isn't happening. | ||
| They go on, like I say, it's corrupted our culture, it's corrupted our schools. | ||
| It's just very, very bad. | ||
| But I think, you know, my faith is in Steve Bannon and Steve Miller. | ||
| These are two fighters. | ||
| And Trump. | ||
| And Trump understands instinctively that when you get attacked, you attack back and throw them off. | ||
| Well, I have this phrase that I I picked up from Chris Lehane, who's a Democratic, it was in the New York Times article about him, a Democratic strategist, but he stole it from Mike Tyson, which is everybody has a game plan until you punch them in the mouth. | ||
| And the Democrats have a massive punch in the mouth for Republicans, calling them racist. | ||
| And Republicans have to come back and call Democrats. | ||
| The Democratic Party is the party of racism. | ||
| It's the party of racial categories. | ||
| It's the party of identity politics. | ||
| It's the party of the inner cities. | ||
| It is a racist party. | ||
| It is also, and I love this, what Trump said in the, it was in the second debate. | ||
| He turned to the cameras and said, you have to understand, Hillary has tremendous hatred in her heart. | ||
| And what he was referring to was the basket of deplorables, which she named. | ||
| She identified all of her opponents, or whatever, half, same thing. | ||
| A racist, sexist, homophobes, islamophobes, xenophobes, you name it, and he's raised them up. | ||
| There isn't a conservative or a deviating liberal who hasn't been in an argument with a so-called liberal who hasn't been called a racist, a sexist, a homophobe. | ||
| So in a way that was a gift. | ||
| The Democratic Party is a party of hate. | ||
| That's what they run on. | ||
| Everything they're doing now is hate. | ||
| Invent conspiracy theories with the Russians. | ||
| I mean, this from a party whose candidate turned over 20% of America's uranium reserves to the Russians. | ||
| I mean, how do you deal with that? | ||
| The only way in politics you have a nine-second soundbite. | ||
| Just go for the jugular. | ||
| I like your style. | ||
| I want to see if we can convert people that way. | ||
| I think interestingly people are being converted on both sides because I think what's happening is I know for sure that I've helped a lot of progressives realize what true liberalism is and at the same time I think I've had and I know that I've gotten a lot of More conservative people to realize that not all liberals are bad, and I think that's where most of us actually are That's good. | ||
| I don't want to take anything away from you, but I I found when I came into the right I've conservatives are generally very decent people and when I criticized the Religious right leadership I had different reactions from things like the Family Research Council I had people in my face the blood vessels popping, screaming at me. | ||
| And I had people who were very supportive, very Christian in that way. | ||
| And I also had this experience in the 2008, I was at the Moral Majority. | ||
| Ralph Reed had invited me to come down to Atlanta. | ||
| And the woman who was my connection there and a Moral Majority member, I asked her, I said, well, if John McCain gets a nomination, will you vote for him? | ||
| And she said, yeah. | ||
| So, what the religious right needs to understand is that there's religion and then there's politics. | ||
| And religion is about saving your immortal soul. | ||
| And if you mess with the devil, you endanger it. | ||
| And in politics, you make pacts with the devil all the time. | ||
| It's about getting into office and trying to practically change some things. | ||
| And one thing that I wanted to talk to you about. | ||
| I just remembered it's a home studio so we can keep going. | ||
| Go ahead, go ahead. | ||
| Why is the left and now so-called liberalism? | ||
| Why are progressives totalitarians? | ||
| And the answer is that they It's a crypto-religious ideology. | ||
| It's modeled on Christianity. | ||
| The world is a fallen place, although they never use that. | ||
| The world is an oppressive place. | ||
| It's injustice rules. | ||
| But there will be a redemption. | ||
| And we are the redeemers. | ||
| That's the danger. | ||
| We have to re, and you see it all the time, we have to remake humanity so it fits our model of the redemption. | ||
| That's why they're so dangerous. | ||
| So if only Bernie was in. | ||
| We have to outlaw, we have to stamp out racists, sexists, homophobes, people who we disagree with. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Milo. | ||
| We can't let him speak. | ||
| The only difference between that and an actual totalitarian state is if they had the power, they would execute Milo. | ||
| He'd be in a gulag or he'd be dead. | ||
| Yeah, do you remember there was a line a couple years ago that Oprah, who and I basically like Oprah and respect Oprah and I'd be happy to have her on the show, of course, when she was talking about this older generation and some of their backwards ways of thinking, and she said, well, they just have to die. | ||
| I remember thinking, even if what you're saying, yes, studies show that younger people are generally more liberal on the social issue. | ||
| They're not more liberal, they're less liberal. | ||
| The older blacks are liberal, that's why Oprah doesn't like them. | ||
| All right, so that sort of fits everything else that you're saying, but my point being that when she said it, it sounds so nuts to me, because one day, if you take that logic to its end, guess what? | ||
| One day the young people are gonna want all of you dead when you're old, because it'll just keep going. | ||
| You can't try to make sense out of it, but it's actually the reverse. | ||
| See, older blacks, you know, Are not as racist as younger blacks. | ||
| Racism is pervasive now. | ||
| I mean, this is a very poignantly incorrect set to say, but I think it's pretty obvious. | ||
| Racism is pervasive in the black community, and especially among younger people who have been to schools and told that all their problems come from white racists. | ||
| Very bad, you know, The 50s were much better times in this country. | ||
| So I think I only got a half answer then before you said my head doesn't have a lot of hope. | ||
| Something to that effect. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| But what about your heart? | ||
| Well, I'm an optimist by genes. | ||
| I don't know how I am. | ||
| I just am. | ||
| I phrase it in a book I wrote. | ||
| When my head is in conflict with my heart, I follow my heart. | ||
| So I'm going to fight till I drop. | ||
| As though there's going to be a positive outcome. | ||
| What was his name? | ||
| Scipio Africanus was a Roman general who burned Carthage. | ||
| And when he saw Carthage going up in smoke, he wept. | ||
| Because the classical view was that it's all cyclical. | ||
| Empires rise and fall. | ||
| Societies rise and fall. | ||
| And this idea of progress is one of the really bad ideas that the Jews gave to us. | ||
| The idea that there's a promised land. | ||
| Although maybe Moses didn't mean it in the way that leftists mean it. | ||
| But that idea of a progress is the problem. | ||
| Can't redeem the world. | ||
| Can't be fixed. | ||
| Why can't the world be fixed? | ||
| Because the root source of all social problems is us, individuals. | ||
| So you can maybe, you know, it's very hard to take one individual Who's gone off the deep end and bring them back. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| But, you know, modest, you know, and this is the oldest thing, I was a Voltaire, ten-year-old garden. | ||
| You can make the space around you maybe a little bit more humane. | ||
| You can help an individual, but you can't change the world. | ||
| Well, on that note, I sense we could do a lot more, so we'll have to do this again. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| How about we do this one year from now, and we'll see if I've incorporated some of your tactics. | ||
| You're an optimist. | ||
| I'm an optimist, too. | ||
| But I'll be around next year. | ||
| I can't help it. | ||
| I'm old enough to know that that will be a blessing. | ||
| You're 78 years old. | ||
| How do you look so good? | ||
| Your makeup. | ||
| That's all the makeup? | ||
| No, I saw you when you walked in. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| What's the trick? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I have a great marriage. | ||
| Wonderful wife. | ||
| I've tried to balance the political with real life stuff. | ||
| My animals. | ||
| I have all these dogs I love. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| And it's also in the genes. | ||
| All right, one year from now, we will do it again. |
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