Nov. 18, 2016 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
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unidentified
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[outro music] | |
| Hey, what's up everybody? | ||
| All right I want to get you up to speed on a couple things and of course talk about the election and who I have on the show this week. | ||
| First off real quick as you probably know at this point we are building out our home studio so I've got the the contractors and the builders are inside they're whacking away at stuff and of course I decided to do this outside now there's a guy next door doing construction. | ||
| Anyway bear with us They're telling us that this whole build should take like two, three weeks. | ||
| You never know with contractors. | ||
| So in the meantime, we're going to be doing Google Hangouts with people. | ||
| And my guest today is University of Toronto professor, psychology professor, Jordan Peterson, who is in a whole brouhaha, has a whole kerfluffle, there's a good word for you, going on about free speech right now and his use or non-use of preferred gender pronouns. | ||
| So we're going to get into that. | ||
| I'm looking forward to it. | ||
| To talk to him, and literally hundreds of you have asked me to have him on over the last couple weeks. | ||
| So that's very cool you guys act as my bookers as well. | ||
| Alright, so I just want to share a couple thoughts quickly. | ||
| This is my direct message for the week. | ||
| We're doing this totally unscripted this time, while I don't have a teleprompter for me. | ||
| A couple thoughts on the election. | ||
| So look, I was saying to everybody, and you can listen to my chat. | ||
| I did a three and a half hour chat last Monday with Joe Rogan the day before the election. | ||
| I was saying I thought this was 50-50. | ||
| The whole time because I thought the Trump base was enthused. | ||
| I thought the Hillary base was not enthused. | ||
| And if those people showed up, then that was what was going to happen. | ||
| Now here's the deal. | ||
| For those of you watching this who dig what I do, who have heard the message that I've been promoting for the last year and a half against this social justice nonsense and this collectivism over the individual and the oppression Olympics and all of this stuff, this is actually a win for us. | ||
| Now let's set aside Trump for just a second. | ||
| movement, right, the things that we have been talking about, about judging | ||
| people individually, not by groups, and also just calling out the nonsense and | ||
| bullshit of the mainstream media, and calling out the bullshit of the elites, | ||
| and all of that stuff, and not ignoring the whole middle of the country. I'm | ||
| somebody that's, I am from New York and I live in California now, but I don't | ||
| ignore or belittle the people in the middle of the country, and I don't think | ||
| anyone should. These are all the things that I've been talking about, and finding | ||
| common ground, and not using buzzwords like racist, and bigot, and homophobe, and | ||
| Islamophobe, and all this stuff to just silence dissent. | ||
| All of these things, this was a win for us, right? | ||
| Because if you think about it, the elite, the media, everybody, the establishment all wanted one thing to happen. | ||
| And what happened? | ||
| The people actually used their voting power to stop that very thing from happening. | ||
| That's actually beautiful! | ||
| Now if you hate Trump, let's see what happens. | ||
| My feeling is at the moment, I think there is a great opportunity here. | ||
| As Scott Adams said on my show, you know, out of kind of chaos and craziness is when opportunity arises. | ||
| I think everybody, and I bet you right now listening to this, feel like there's a great opportunity right now. | ||
| I think there are people coming across on every side of the aisle right now, looking around and reevaluating everything. | ||
| Oh, and who can I work with? | ||
| Who are my allies? | ||
| Who are my friends? | ||
| What kind of place do I want to live in? | ||
| Do I want to suppress free speech or not? | ||
| What do I want to do? | ||
| I think there's opportunity here, and I think Trump as a populist, you know, in a weird way, his narcissism and populism might work to our advantage. | ||
| He's not an ideologue. | ||
| He's not like Mike Pence, for example, who, as a Christian conservative, he believes certain | ||
| things about gay marriage or about abortion because of an ideology. | ||
| Trump, I think, as a populist, he wants to basically do probably things that will make | ||
| him feel popular and loved. | ||
| There might be a way that some good stuff could come out of that. | ||
| Maybe he'll do some infrastructure stuff, lower some taxes. | ||
| There's no reason to think he's going to go all in on foreign adventurous wars and all | ||
| So I think there's opportunity here We still have two or three months basically of Obama I think these people protesting look you have the right to protest. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| I am for free speech and for expression I don't know that you will ever find anyone That is more for that than me. | ||
| So these people have a right to do it, but you have to do it legally. | ||
| If you block roads like the 101, which leads to my house, if you block roads, all you're doing is actually strengthening the other side. | ||
| Nobody's joining your cause when you do illegal things or burn cop cars or vandalize things or beat people or any of that stuff. | ||
| You have to do it legally, and then you have a moral case to stand on. | ||
| So I think a lot of these people protesting The road to hell is paved with good intentions. | ||
| I think they think they're fighting for the right things. | ||
| They think they're fighting against fascism or against racism or something like that. | ||
| But it's not actually what they're doing. | ||
| They're helping the other side. | ||
| So anyway, my feeling is there is great opportunity right now. | ||
| I think that people kind of feel that. | ||
| And if the economy gets going and Trump doesn't do some of the more crazy things that people think he might, I think he's going to have to govern really from the center, and I think that will be really good for classical liberals, basic liberal people. | ||
| I think it'll be really good for mainstream conservatives. | ||
| And then maybe the people that are on the fringes of all of this thing will slowly be silenced. | ||
| That's my suspicion at the moment. | ||
| And maybe I have a slight sense of what I'm talking about because I kind of saw this whole Unfolding the way it did. | ||
| By the way, I'll just say one other thing. | ||
| You know, we do this show. | ||
| You guys fund us on Patreon, which is amazing. | ||
| About 3,000 of you. | ||
| And I've been doing my Google Hangouts with you where I do group chats and I do one-on-one chats with a whole bunch of different people. | ||
| And for about the 80 or so people that I've talked to in the last couple days, there's a genuine feeling of most of the people did not vote for Trump and certainly did not support Trump, but that maybe there's some opportunity here. | ||
| So let's see what happens. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| Let's not prejudge. | ||
| Let's not be prejudiced. | ||
| Let's judge as things happen. | ||
| If Trump does something wrong, does something illegal, immoral, any of that, I will be the first to hold his feet to the fire. | ||
| I hope we can get Trump on the show. | ||
| I hope we can get Clinton on the show. | ||
| I'll talk to any of their kids, any of that stuff. | ||
| So there's something happening here. | ||
| I am so sure that we're like right in the thick of it. | ||
| And I'm excited. | ||
| I'm actually excited. | ||
| So I know a lot of people are fearful right now. | ||
| I'm excited for what the future can bring. | ||
| I'd love to know your thoughts, so let us know in the comments right down below. | ||
| And as I said, A couple Google Hangouts over the next few weeks and then we're back in studio and we're gonna be doing more shows than ever. | ||
| We'll have no time limits on how long I can sit down with people. | ||
| We've got a couple new spin-off ideas and some other segments and some really cool stuff and more live streaming and all that good stuff. | ||
| So thank you guys for your support and let's see, can we make America great again without sacrificing what's been good already? | ||
| Let's find out. | ||
| As you guys know, we are building out our home studio. | ||
| So we are in a makeshift studio at the moment. | ||
| We are going to be doing a Google Hangout for the first time. | ||
| Normally when we do remote, we do Skypes. | ||
| But our Skype portion of the studio and our main studio is all being built out. | ||
| Should be good to go in a couple weeks. | ||
| But I did not want to starve you fine people of content, especially in these crazy times that we live in. | ||
| So this week, I'm very excited to be talking to Jordan Peterson. | ||
| He is a University of Toronto psychology professor. | ||
| He has really been in the thick of this free speech thing. | ||
| And pretty much, I would say about 700 of you, roughly, Uh, requested for him to be on the show and for us to sit down. | ||
| I've read a lot about him lately. | ||
| Uh, Jordan, welcome to the show. | ||
| Welcome to the Rubin Report. | ||
| Thanks very much. | ||
| So thank you for being our Google Hangout guinea pig and bearing with us as we are in between studios. | ||
| This is a pure free speech zone. | ||
| That probably makes the guy like you feel pretty good, huh? | ||
| Yeah, well, you know, good. | ||
| That means we might be able to discuss some things that are important instead of pussyfooting around. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So let's get right to it. | ||
| So for people that don't know your story, what has sort of put you in the news over the last couple of months, it's actually quite astounding because you are in Canada, which is a place that has a strong tradition of free speech. | ||
| So for people that have no idea what's going on with you, can you just lay out the basics of what's transpired over the last couple of months? | ||
| Yeah, well, there's some new legislation that's pending at the federal level called Bill C-16. | ||
| Bill C-16 adds gender identity and gender expression to the list of protected categories under the Canadian Human Rights Act. | ||
| Also adds transgressions against those categories, people who are in those categories, to the hate speech provisions of the Criminal Code. | ||
| So it's very, very punitive legislation. | ||
| And that in itself is somewhat appalling, although it's not obvious why. | ||
| But there's similar legislation already in many provinces in Canada, which is equivalent to the state level. | ||
| And the There's a requirement that originated in Ontario for people to use what are called preferred pronouns to address someone. | ||
| And as far as I can tell, by reading over the legislation, failure to use someone's preferred pronouns is now a hate crime in Canada. | ||
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unidentified
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Right. | |
| So let's just pause there for a second. | ||
| I want people to really understand what that means. | ||
| That means that if you potentially accidentally refer to someone as the wrong pronoun, you may not realize | ||
| if someone happens to be a male or a female, you could potentially be in legal trouble. | ||
| Now that also, you could do it intentionally, which I think under free speech would be fine as well, | ||
| but even accidentally, we're going down a pretty slippery slope here. | ||
| Legislation, like there are legal moves afoot in many organizations at a policy level or a legal level | ||
| to also alter the way that the law is interpreted so that instead of judging someone | ||
| on the intent of their speech, you judge them on the consequences of their speech. | ||
| And also, and this is particularly true, | ||
| say with sexual harassment policies, and this is happening mostly at universities right now, | ||
| although it'll happen in other organizations soon enough. | ||
| To remove if you're accused of sexual harassment or worse instead of you presumed innocent until proven guilty They use the doctrine of preponderance of evidence And so so not only are there changes afoot to to regulate the way that people speak they call that Compelled speech the American Supreme Court ruled on that | ||
| one point and ruled it unconstitutional that it contradicted the First Amendment that compelled speech | ||
| So but in Canada, I think these pieces of legislation are also unconstitutional | ||
| But of course no one's yet challenged them as far as you'd have to challenge them to prove that which would be all the | ||
| way To the Supreme Court. Yeah. Okay, so we're obviously gonna | ||
| focus mostly on the free speech component of it But I would imagine that there's probably a few people | ||
| listening to this that would say, "Wait a minute, wait a minute." | ||
| Maybe this guy just doesn't like transgender people. | ||
| Maybe he just wants to be offensive to transgender people. | ||
| So, I'll just kick that back to you. | ||
| Is that the case at all? | ||
| Well, a lot of the people who've been pushing this legislation claim to be speaking for the transgender community, but that's not self-evident to me at all. | ||
| I've received many letters of support from transgender people, and I actually just did a conversation with a transgender woman in Vancouver. | ||
| Most transgendered people, especially the classic type, I would say, speaking psychologically, are people who've had a difficult time adjusting to their biological sex identity since they were young, and some of them undergo fairly radical transformations in an attempt to become the other sex. | ||
| And they have no problem with pronouns, they just want to be the other one. | ||
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unidentified
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Right. | |
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| So they don't have any problem with he or she. | ||
| In fact, they undergo A tremendous amount of trouble, I would say, to transform themselves, for better or worse, into a member of the opposite sex. | ||
| The people who are pushing this legislation forward claim to speak for the transgender community, but you can claim to speak for any community you want. | ||
| That doesn't make you a legitimate representative. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So that's a great point. | ||
| And actually, the girl that you spoke to up in Vancouver, we've had on our Rubin Report Fan Show, so people can check that out. | ||
| Her name is Darren Meyer. | ||
| I think she's an excellent spokesperson for the trans community. I don't know that she's | ||
| asking to be a spokesman for the trans community, but sometimes people are | ||
| sort of just thrust into things. So, okay, so in and of itself you have no | ||
| problem with trans people, right? Is that fair to say? Well, I don't have any problem | ||
| with trans people. I mean, I'm a clinical psychologist. I've dealt with | ||
| every variety of person you could possibly imagine and a fair number of | ||
| people that you couldn't possibly imagine. And I'm so I'm quite comfortable with people who don't fit normally | ||
| into normal categories and I know how to deal with people who | ||
| are in that situation very well. So the idea that I'm doing this because | ||
| I'm somehow made nervous by People who don't fit neatly into gender categories. | ||
| It's exactly the sort of trick that you'd expect people on the radical left to pull because it's what they do all the time. | ||
| They called me a racist, too, because the University of Toronto Human Resources and Equity Department has been taking advice from a group called the Black Liberation Collective, which was formulated by two women. | ||
| One who is a self-avowed black supremacist who believes that white people are inferior because they don't have enough melanin in their skin. | ||
| And that makes them unable to receive cosmic energy and transform it into proper thought. | ||
| Is that what my problem is? | ||
| That is definitely your problem. | ||
| And the other one is under investigation for embezzling $300,000 from the University of Toronto Students' Union. | ||
| And they also will not disavow violence in their pursuit of social transformation. | ||
| The University of Toronto HR and Equity Department is taking policy advice from them, which I think is appalling. | ||
| And because I've objected to that, I've been tarred with the epithet of racist. | ||
| So, but it's typical. It's typical of this kind of mob behavior that the PC | ||
| authoritarians like to engage in whenever anybody ruffles their feathers. | ||
| Yeah, I'm curious, were you keenly aware of that authoritarianism before you were | ||
| subjected to it? | ||
| I mean, I suspect at the academic level you've seen a lot of this building and I've seen some of your subsequent tweets over the last couple months that you sort of had an idea about this, but did you really know exactly how bad it was until you were the target of their aim? | ||
| Probably knew I mean, I've been disturbed about political correctness for a very long time I've studied the development of totalitarian and authoritarian systems for about four decades and I've been keeping a close eye on political correctness since the early 1990s because it it spiked when I used to teach at Harvard I taught there from 93 to 98 and despite there was quite a spike in political correctness in the early part of the 1990s But it kind of settled down And so I thought it had gone back underground to where it was spawned, but it made its comeback quite dramatically in the last five years. | ||
| And I've seen a lot of very ominous things occurring, a lot of them on American campuses. | ||
| I mean, the episode at Yale with the Halloween costumes, for example, and the fact that one of the people, faculty members involved in that actually resigned was one of the More egregious examples, but certainly not the only one. | ||
| So I made a couple of YouTube videos complaining about the Bill C-16 and also about the University of Toronto's decision to make anti-racism and anti-bias training so-called mandatory for its staff, which I thought was an appalling invasion of Of their employees political freedom and still do believe that and also know that mandatory anti-racism and anti-bias training has no it's not validated as a as a procedure an educational or psychological procedure to reduce racism and bias the evidence in fact suggests that it has the opposite effect. | ||
| And then I also found that the University of Toronto, I got their training material once they started their mandatory training programs. | ||
| And they're actually pushing, they define equity. | ||
| It's HR and equity, human resources and equity. | ||
| And this is coming your way, just so everyone knows it. | ||
| The question is, what is equity? | ||
| Because that's a different word than equality. | ||
| Well, they defined equity in their training material. | ||
| It's equality of outcome. | ||
| It's unbelievably dangerous and it's so pernicious because here's the hypothesis imagine you have an organizational pyramid right and there's layers of power And then each layer of power has a demographic. | ||
| It's you know it has a demographic element right I mean There are men and women and people of different races and so forth so you can segregate and analyze each strata by its demography. | ||
| Well and the hypothesis is you do that then you compare it to the general population and if there isn't a one-to-one match then the organization is oppressive and corrupt and needs to be retooled and this is what the University of Toronto administration is forcing its staff to learn. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| So, uh, when people feel this, when people say this, and it sounds absurd to the two of us, you can't force an equality of outcome with anything. | ||
| Oh yeah, you can. | ||
| You just have to, you just have to force things a hell of a lot harder than anyone wants to foresee. | ||
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unidentified
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Right. | |
| So I guess, I guess technically you can force it, but I think maybe I meant, uh, morally or ethically, you shouldn't force it. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Well, what happens is everybody ends up sitting in the rubble and they're all equal in outcome. | ||
| So, and everyone's equal in outcome if enough people are dead. | ||
| So, I mean, those sound like dramatic phrases, but I know exactly what equality of outcome theory did to places like the Soviet Union and to Maoist China. | ||
| It was absolutely, it was absolutely and unbelievably disastrous and murderous. | ||
| I can't believe they're pushing this on us now. | ||
| Can you explain how we get there? | ||
| How do you get there from this academic level that we're dealing with it to, you know, regimes like that? | ||
| Well, you get there you get there when when see people think these are academic issues But what they fail to realize is that what happens on university campuses happens everywhere five years later The people who run things are trained in universities. | ||
| And so however, they're trained. | ||
| That's how things are going to be run equality of outcome equality of outcome means that force has to be applied to make sure that every Institution at every level holds into compliance with the with the equality doctrine And you do that by retooling organizations and putting quotas on people, for example, or firing people or whatever you have to do. | ||
| So, for example, 65% of the medical faculty at the University of Toronto was women. | ||
| It's quite the equality of outcome doctrine. | ||
| Well, what do you do? | ||
| Do you fire 15% and replace them with men? | ||
| I mean, in engineering, of course, the preponderance of people are male. | ||
| But the pernicious idea is that that's a marker of oppression. | ||
| And equality of outcome, well, it's worse than a Marxist doctrine. | ||
| It's the most pernicious of Marxist doctrines. | ||
| I mean, we fought a whole Cold War against that. | ||
| We damn near put the whole world to the torch to ensure that that philosophy didn't spread. | ||
| And in Alberta, another Canadian province, the Alberta Teachers Association recently launched their LBGT, I can never get that right, it's LGBT, thank you, thank you, education material, and they're trying to teach kids from grade 7 to grade 12 that there's no relationship between biology and gender, which is also written into this legislation, by the way, and I want to come back to that because that's a lot more important than people think. | ||
| They seriously proposed That children address each other as comrade. | ||
| So how much of this, then, is just a flaw in the West that our academic systems have sort of rotted, which then leads up to our leaders rotting, and that no one is really fighting for the very principles that, as you said, we've fought wars over. | ||
| I mean, millions of people have died over free expression and free ideas and battling back some of this Marxist stuff. | ||
| And it seems to me that it's only now, at the beginnings, with stuff that you're doing and a few other people, Where it's starting to people are realizing that actually free expression free speech free thought And a quality of opportunity not of outcome. | ||
| These are actually cool ideas, but it seems like right now We're on the losing end of this stuff Well, I would it looks to me like we are I mean I tried to do some so to get some sense of how this works I would recommend that your readers go online and look up 12 Websites look up women's studies websites. | ||
| I don't care where you look them up because they're all the same And there's and I think that the women in gender studies types the the ethnicity studies the racial studies all that what I consider That disciplines that are their pseudo disciplines. | ||
| They're they're they're peripheral disciplines. | ||
| They should have never been incorporated into the university They tell you exactly what they're up to they believe that the West is Is a patriarchy first of all which is a word that's become so accepted now that people look at me in surprise when I object to its use You know, it's because become so much part of the parlance. | ||
| Well, of course, it's a patriarchy it's like it's not so obvious that it's a patriarchy and and besides that the idea that It's not only a patriarchy, but it's a corrupt patriarchy at every level, including the level of fundamental categorization. | ||
| And that it needs to be retooled from the bottom up. | ||
| And that what we do in our Women's Studies programs is we train people in that doctrine and we teach them how to be political activists and infiltrating agents. | ||
| And I'm not making this up. | ||
| All you have to do is go onto the websites and read it. | ||
| It's laid out there for everyone to see. | ||
| The very idea that the West is a corrupt patriarchy is... Well, that's retooled Marxism mixed with a bit of postmodernism. | ||
| You know, the postmodernists, especially Jacques Derrida, who I think is corrupt and dangerous beyond comprehension, virtually. | ||
| Driven by resentment, virtually nothing else, but very, very smart and very, very treacherous. | ||
| He basically claimed that the only reason that human beings categorized to begin with is to exclude And the thing is, is that it's very difficult doctrine to think through, because categories exclude. | ||
| And they can be misused for purposes of exclusion, which is what unfair discrimination constitutes. | ||
| And it's unfair when you deny someone a position that they're competent to occupy for reasons that have nothing to do with the issues at hand, right? | ||
| That's the kind of discrimination that people should be objecting to. | ||
| But the idea that categorization itself, the purpose of categorization is to exclude in a discriminatory fashion, it's an assault, it's truly an assault on reason itself. | ||
| We categorize we're not that bright human beings and and there's lots of world out there And so we categorize the world to simplify it so that we can so that we can act in it properly and to equate that with to equate the very act of categorization with discrimination is well, that's what the postmodernists have done and Right, it's actually, it strikes me as incredibly dangerous. | ||
| We categorize because you take, you make value judgments on people's behavior, their thoughts, all of those things, and then we categorize them as good, bad, or indifferent, or whatever it may be. | ||
| Better scholar, worse scholar, smarter, dumber, better athlete, whatever it is. | ||
| If you didn't do that, then that sort of postmodern thinking, we'd all just be one Amorphous blob, but I guess that that's sort of how they want us right now Well, I think it isn't I think it is an assault on the idea of value judgment per se because that's become a pejorative That's a value judgment. | ||
| It's like yeah, I mean value judgments Value judgments are what provide life with meaning, technically speaking, because your life has meaning when you're moving from a place that's not so good to a place that's better. | ||
| That's what motivates you. | ||
| Without value judgments, without the distinction between now or between bad and better or bad and good, there's no impetus to move forward. | ||
| There's no motivation. | ||
| There's no significance in life. | ||
| And I believe that there's an assault on that, because the problem with having significance in your life is that it requires responsibility. | ||
| And one thing the SJW types that PC authoritarians don't want is any responsibility for anything whatsoever. | ||
| Yeah, so you would say that you should judge. | ||
| That's actually your right and your duty as a person. | ||
| You should not prejudge, correct? | ||
| Like, so you should not be prejudiced, for example. | ||
| Well, you shouldn't judge speciously. | ||
| Like, if I'm trying to hire someone to compose a piece of music to me, Whether they're female or male or black or white or what sexual orientation they have, for that matter, is irrelevant to the production of the outcome. | ||
| And so you shouldn't do it because it's counterproductive. | ||
| It's not even in your interests to do it, much less not in the interests of the person that you're being prejudiced against. | ||
| So how do we untangle some of this stuff? | ||
| For all of the well-intentioned SJWs that I talk about all the time, that you talk about all the time, for all of the people that are enamored with the safe spaces and trigger warnings and that think that they're doing good, because I do believe... I don't buy that. | ||
| I don't believe the good intention idea. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Really, please take it away. | ||
| Well, because like many, many terrible things have been done in history in the name of good intentions. | ||
| And why should I assume that just because someone states they have good intentions that their intentions are | ||
| actually good? | ||
| No, that's predicated on the idea that people are intrinsically good. | ||
| And I don't buy that for a second. People are intrinsically good and evil. | ||
| And you cannot take someone's intentions, especially their political intentions, | ||
| especially if they have to do with changing others. | ||
| You can't take that at face value. | ||
| And I think that you can understand the politically correct types very well if you substitute resentment for the word compassion. | ||
| Every time they use compassion, you substitute resentment and you've got a pretty good sense of exactly what they're up to. | ||
| And the idea that you're doing people a favor by making them safe isn't it's it's it's the proposition that Sigmund Freud spent his whole life fighting against because The classic Oedipal mother who devours her children like the witch in Hansel and Gretel fat You know feeds them nothing but candy and fattens them up so she can eat them. | ||
| That's that's a cautionary tale for our time I'll tell you Those people say well, you know, I did it with the best intentions. | ||
| All I was trying to do is protect my children It's like children aren't there to protect children are there to encourage and toughen and And so the idea that these that this is good intentions. | ||
| No way man. | ||
| I don't buy it for a second. | ||
| Yeah good intentions Yeah, I guess I would give a little caveat to what I said, which is that I think, for the most part, the young people that are getting indoctrinated with this stuff, when they hear about it, I think their intentions are to do good. | ||
| I think the leaders of a lot of these movements and the higher-up academics and things like that, they really understand what's going on and realize how this is about power. | ||
|
unidentified
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No? | |
| I don't buy it with the young people either. | ||
| And the reason for that is, like, Carl Jung talked about the unholy alliance that an Oedipal mother formed with her child. | ||
| So if your mother is very, very hyper-dependent, there's two things you can do about it. | ||
| You can rebel against it, or you can take the offering. | ||
| And the advantage to taking the offering, the alliance is basically, you never leave, and I'll never require that you do anything. | ||
| Right, that's the dependent. | ||
| That's the mother with the hyperdependent child. | ||
| Okay, so how do you translate that into a political agenda? | ||
| It's easy I'm going to teach you a political ideology and it'll put you in a position of moral superiority and it will require absolutely no responsibility whatsoever on your part and you'll be able to demonize and victimize people and have a place where you can vent your resentment and spleen and And so that's what's happening with the young people and I mean, I don't want to make it I don't want to be over categorical about it. | ||
| I know that people get confused but but I don't think that there's any excuse for it and I think that There's a corruption in the idea that what I should do as a political agent is change you or even change the world It's like if you want to take And you want to say against the corruption of the world, then you should start by fighting against the corruption in your own heart. | ||
| And that's a real battle. | ||
| And that really requires responsibility. | ||
| You should discipline yourself. | ||
| You should get rid of your fear. | ||
| You should expand your skills. | ||
| You should stop being an uncarved block. | ||
| And you should stop being pathetic. | ||
| You should start being attractive to people of the opposite sex. | ||
| You should sharpen yourself up. | ||
| And you should have enough humility to know bloody well that when you're 18 years old, you don't know enough about the world to go out and radically reshape it. | ||
| So they're being sold a bill of goods. | ||
| There's no doubt about it. | ||
| But the reason that it's so pernicious is because it appeals to the most To the most hypocritical and deceitful and responsibility-shedding element of young people. | ||
| And of course, it's hard for young people to discipline themselves. | ||
| And it's a long way up back into the middle class, you know? | ||
| So, there's a real struggle that requires responsibility and courage to place yourself in the world as a productive citizen. | ||
| It's a hell of a lot easier just to abandon that and complain about the entire structure of society. | ||
| Yeah, it's interesting. | ||
| I didn't think we were going to go exactly in this direction with this, but you're really giving the best argument for liberty and for individualism over collectivism, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, this is it. | ||
| This is absolutely individualism versus collectivism. | ||
| And, you know, I was interviewed by a young journalist today from Carleton University. | ||
| And, you know, she asked me straight out about my white privilege. | ||
| And I thought, there's a question I find unbelievably, I find it appalling. | ||
| It's an appalling question. | ||
| She's a second year political science student. | ||
| She had no idea about the history of the Soviet Union. | ||
| I asked her how many people were killed in internal repression in the Soviet Union. | ||
| And, you know, She had no idea. | ||
| She had absolutely no idea. | ||
| She guessed a million people, which meant she was out by a factor of about 50. | ||
| And she had never heard of the problem with the idea of collective, group-based guilt. | ||
| No, and and one of the one of the one of the processes by which the Marxist doctrine was transformed into the murderous outcomes in the Soviet Union was to play collective guilt games and the Soviets killed all their Productive farmers in the late 1920s because they regarded them anybody who owned a house These were people who were serfs like 30 years before some of them had like clambered up the peasant ranks so that they maybe owned a brick house and could employ one person and had a cow and some and You know an end and a field or two, but they were they were producing almost all of Russia's agricultural output and it's because a small minority of people also always produce the majority of whatever is being produced So they threw them all on trains shipped them up to Siberia killed them all collectivized the farms and in the 1936 million Ukrainians starved to death | ||
| So, this idea of collective guilt, and then the fact that someone could come right out and, you know, question me on my white privilege, if that isn't racism, I've never encountered racism in my life. | ||
| So what kind of backing, or not backing, as I think I know the answer already, are you getting from your university? | ||
| Because they've done some kind of shady stuff with you as well, right? | ||
| Yeah, well after I released these videos, so the first video questioned Bill C-16 and similar provincial legislation, and I said in the video that making the video was now probably illegal. | ||
| So we've come to the point where even questioning the damn legislation in Canada has become an illegal act. | ||
| Then I made another video about the Human Resources Department's decision to make anti-racism and anti-bias training mandatory for their staff, and a third one about the PC game. | ||
| And within a week that initiated two demonstrations at the university campus. | ||
| And the second one was a free speech rally, which I didn't organize but spoke at. | ||
| That was the one where the journalist Lauren Southern was assaulted by a professional activist and was seconded by another who immediately lied about what she had seen. | ||
| That's become infamous on YouTube. | ||
| The university sent me a warning letter on October 3rd, that was a week after I made the videos, accusing me of producing, saying that they had received many letters from the university community stating that I was making an unsafe environment. | ||
| And and enumerated a variety of threats that had been Put forth against trans people on on social media Hypothetically, you know right without and and so they warned me and told me to stop Repeating my statement that I wouldn't use these these gender-neutral pronouns the reason they did that was because they reviewed the policies and Concluded the same thing I concluded which was that what I was doing was illegal and you see the legislation is written And this is a real cute element of it. | ||
| This is something really quite wonderful if you're an employer in in Ontario now you are as responsible for your employees acts of speaking as they are and And you're responsible for the consequences of their speech acts, whether they're intentional or unintentional, and whether or not a complaint has been made. | ||
| So you're responsible for whatever your employees say, even if you don't know about it, even if no one complains, even if it was accidental. | ||
| Man, I mean, there's so much here. | ||
| So wait, let's just pause for a second, because it warrants to mention that you are a tenured professor, which means that they can't fire you just for no reason. | ||
| Is it even ever possible to fire a tenured professor? | ||
| Oh yeah, you can do it the way they're planning. | ||
| At least to open that up as a possibility. | ||
| The way you do that is the same way you discipline any employee. | ||
| You send them a warning letter outlining what they're doing wrong and telling them to stop doing it. | ||
| Oh, and when they wrote the first letter they mischaracterized what I said quite badly and I took I know I challenged them on that and told them that they should go and rewrite the letter and do it properly if they were going to come after me, but they refused my my refusal and so I kept the letter and I got another letter on the 18th and it was a real masterpiece of doublespeak because They repeated their claims that they had received, you know, many, many letters, which I'm sure they had from people within the university. | ||
| But I knew at that point that they'd already also received at least 500 letters from people supporting me, because I was CC'd on the letters, as well as a petition that was signed by 10,000 people. | ||
| They never even mentioned that. | ||
| And they said that I had to stop. | ||
| They told me I had to bring my behavior in line with university policy and stop repeating the claim that I wouldn't use gender-neutral pronouns. | ||
| And one of the things that was really absurd about that is, so I was accused of violating university policy, but their own policy drafted in 1992, which is their policy on freedom of speech, States outright that at the university freedom of speech is the highest value and the professors not only have a the right but the Obligation to engage in the criticism of the university and society at large So it was hypocritical to the nth degree and then even we're having a debate at 930 in the morning on Saturday | ||
| It's going to be live cast on my YouTube channel, Jordan Peterson Videos. | ||
| The university, I proposed that the university hold a debate about these issues and they actually agreed. | ||
| Although they told me, and this really put my tail in a knot because I didn't know what to do about it. | ||
| They told me that they'd go ahead with the debate, but that I couldn't repeat my insistence that I wouldn't use gender-neutral pronouns in the free speech debate! | ||
| Right. | ||
| So let's just get this straight. | ||
| They allowed you to go ahead and do this. | ||
| Okay, that sounds good. | ||
| But then the condition was that you actually could not repeat the very things that got this whole mess going in the first place. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I came home after that. | ||
| I wasn't sure what to do because I thought, Well, first of all, it took me a while just to... it was like being in a Delhi painting. | ||
| It's so surreal. | ||
| I thought, oh, this is interesting. | ||
| We're gonna have a free speech debate with a restriction on free speech implicit in the debate. | ||
| So I thought, I don't know what the hell to do about this. | ||
| So I called a few theaters and I... because I thought, well, to hell with it. | ||
| I'll just... I'll just do this by myself. | ||
| But then, and I talked to my family. | ||
| My parents were visiting, and I talked to my son and my wife. | ||
| We talked about this a lot, and I wrote the university a letter, and I said, look, I'm not sure I can do this. | ||
| This is absurd. | ||
| Here's a better idea. | ||
| Here's a better idea. | ||
| You guys are making a mistake. | ||
| You're supporting the wrong horse. | ||
| You're backing the wrong horse. | ||
| So why don't you do this instead? | ||
| Why don't you come out in favor of my right to freedom of speech, regardless of whether you agree with me? | ||
| Put your legal department behind protecting me, instead of threatening me, essentially, with the loss of my job, which is what they're fundamentally doing. | ||
| And we'll fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. | ||
| And so I went and talked to the Dean who helped arrange the debate and he said, there's no way the university will do that. | ||
| And so I made another video saying all that and posted it online. | ||
| I guess about 60,000 people watched that. | ||
| But I did, I decided to go ahead with the debate. | ||
| And there were two reasons for that. | ||
| One was, I know that it's very difficult for anything to happen without it being imperfect. | ||
| And often the price you pay for moving ahead with something is to accept its imperfections like the snake in the Garden of Eden, you know There's always a snake in the damn garden. | ||
| And so I thought this was the snake and I thought well, I Thought it would be better to have the debate under university auspices Then for me to go it alone partly because the university should be hosting this debate and Partly because I also couldn't see this was a secondary concern, but I also couldn't see any way out of the conundrum Where I didn't lose | ||
| So if I refused the debate, then what would have happened was the university would have said, well, we offered in good faith and Peterson rejected it. | ||
| And all the people that I would have hypothetically debate would have said, oh, well, he just had an excuse and, you know, and he just took whatever excuse was, was open to him so that he didn't have to face us. | ||
| So, so anyways, for better or worse, the debate's on at nine 30 in the morning on Saturday. | ||
| So, and I think tickets go on sale tomorrow, but it will be live cast. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, all right. | |
| Well, I'll be sure to promote that, absolutely. | ||
| I'm curious, what kind of support or not support have you gotten from other academics? | ||
| It sounds like the University of Toronto is not really on board with what you're doing, but what about from academics? | ||
| Oh, none! | ||
| Nothing? | ||
| None to speak of. | ||
| Now, the Society for Academic Freedom in Halifax came out and supported me, and they're a decent organization, although they don't really have any teeth, but that's not their fault. | ||
| I mean, they're doing their best, but The silence from my faculty colleagues, apart from the 200 who wrote a letter denouncing me, and didn't have enough courage to mention that it was actually me they were denouncing, even though when they sent the letter to the Varsity, which is the University of Toronto newspaper, they said it was about me, which I thought was really funny. | ||
| Wait, so when they write a letter about you, how many of them do you think actually believe the content of what they're saying? | ||
| Like really believe that you should be silenced? | ||
| Versus that the inmates are sort of running the asylum at colleges now, and these other professors are really just protecting their own ass because they don't want the mob to come after them. | ||
| I'm not saying that's any better, by the way, of course. | ||
| No, no, no, I wouldn't say that the people who denounced me did it to protect themselves, although there would have been an element of that, but certainly many of the people who are remaining silent are doing that to protect themselves. | ||
| I mean, I had a colleague tell me, it was actually one of the reasons I made the video, I had a colleague say, who's, you know, been on the receiving end of some political correctness, he said, well, I won't do anything about it because The cost to me would be near infinite, and the social consequences would be zero. | ||
| But that's always how these situations work out, and that's why people remain silent. | ||
| And remaining silent is the worst thing. | ||
| You abdicate your privileges as a citizen when you remain silent. | ||
| You no longer deserve to partake of the freedoms of a citizen. | ||
| But people will give up their their their right to they'll give up the rights at the drop of a hat and the silence from my faculty Colleagues has been absolutely deafening Yeah, and you know it's very good. | ||
| Well. | ||
| It's no different than I mean I don't like to make this comparison, but there was no Courage on the part of the intellectuals when the Soviets started to dismantle universities there was no courage among the academics when the Nazis started to do the same thing in the 1930s and It's the same process. | ||
| I mean, I'm not trying to draw a direct equivalent, but it's the same process. | ||
| It requires almost no pressure to intimidate people into silence. | ||
| But that's because people aren't afraid enough. | ||
| You know, people have been asking me how I can tolerate the stress. | ||
| It's like, first of all, compared to real stress, a sick child, that's stressful. | ||
| This is a political argument. | ||
| What's on the line is my job like that's that's not That's not a tragedy. | ||
| It sucks, and it's stressful, but I mean compared to genuine stress. | ||
| It's nothing but but compared to the stress that I would be under if I Agreed to use this language see for me the real issue for me personally is I believe that these made-up gender-neutral pronouns are part of the radical dialectic of the PC authoritarian left. | ||
| I think they're carefully crafted terms. | ||
| I think they have intent behind them and they're part and parcel of an ideology and I dread and despise that ideology to the bottom of my soul and there's not a chance I'm going to use those words because I would literally destroy my integrity and I'm not doing that. | ||
| I'd rather I can't think of anything that would be worse for me than that. | ||
| that would break me. | ||
| Yeah, and I love that passion, and it's so obvious how personal this is to you. | ||
| I'm curious, what do you think is it about you that is willing to put this, I get what you're saying, it would hurt you to your core, but I just mean like, what about your maybe formative years or something that you're the one that's putting yourself on the line for this? | ||
| And I know there are a couple other, you know, there's my friend Gad Saad, who I know you've talked to, who's in academia in Canada, who talks about this stuff. | ||
| And I know I have a few allies in the United States really protecting free speech. | ||
| And they're growing, by the way, which is why so many people wanted me to talk to you. | ||
| But what do you think, really, is it about you that makes you say, I will put my ass on the line for this? | ||
| Well, I wrote a book in 19... I published a book in 1999 called Maps of Meaning, and the course lectures about that are on my video channel. | ||
| I wrote Maps of Meaning because I was absolutely obsessed with what had happened in Nazi Germany and in the Soviet Union. | ||
| And I mean, I really truly mean obsessed. | ||
| I spent virtually every waking second for 15 years thinking about nothing else than that. | ||
| And read very, very, very widely. | ||
| I read all of Carl Jung. | ||
| I read Orwell and Huxley and Solzhenitsyn and a slew of books on neurobiology and all the great clinical psychologists and a huge chunk of political economy. | ||
| I read a very, very vast amount of psychological and political literature. | ||
| And I synthesized this over the course of 15,000 hours. | ||
| That's how long it took me to write that book. | ||
| And the reason I did it was because I was trying to understand the relationship between belief and emotion and motivation. | ||
| And more specifically, more... I'll tell you a story. | ||
| Here's what I was trying to understand, all right? | ||
| So, one of the tricks that the guards used to pull in Auschwitz Was that when the prisoners were or the detainees were dumped off the rail cars where they'd be packed in like sheep worse than sheep and where many of them died of suffocation and dehydration and overheating. | ||
| When they were dumped off at the camp and they were ruined by then already because you know They'd been ripped away from their families and had their lives destroyed And but that wasn't good enough for the Auschwitz guards and one of the tricks they used to pull on them was they'd have that the inmates pick up a hundred pound sack of wet salt and carry it from one side of the compound to the other and Then back And so it said on the Auschwitz gates work will make you free Which was a which was a joke a black black joke a joke from the depths of hell that like mutual assured destruction the same kind of humor and I was very interested in I thought hmm. | ||
| An Auschwitz guard an Auschwitz guard could take someone who was already ruined who lost their family was suffering | ||
| dreadfully and then Make them do something effortful and terrible because these | ||
| camps were big to carry the sack of salt from one side That's a city. These were cities. These weren't like little | ||
| prisons and it was to demonstrate to the person their absolute | ||
| abject humiliation and to deprive them of any sense of accomplishment whatsoever that they might | ||
| extract from their labor. | ||
| Okay, so I was interested in that, but I was interested in why a human being would do that to another human being. | ||
| But I was interested in that in a very particular way, because you see, the people in Auschwitz who were the guards, they were ordinary people. | ||
| And that meant that ordinary people can do that. | ||
| And that meant I could do it. | ||
| And so I wanted to figure out just exactly what that meant. | ||
| And so I did figure out what that meant. | ||
| You know, Jung said that the human shadow stretches all the way down to hell. | ||
| And that's exactly right. | ||
| It's really, directly true. | ||
| And so I realized that when I was writing Maps of Meaning. | ||
| After some experiences I had also working, I worked I worked, visited is more the accurate term, but I worked for this strange psychologist in Edmonton who was the prison psychologist at the Edmonton maximum security prison and I went out there a few times and observed the convicts and started thinking about what motivated them too and you know I had a revelation not long after that about about atrocity and the revelation was because I didn't think I was capable of doing such a thing but I thought about it a long time and I realized I was bloody fully capable of it and so then I started to puzzle out | ||
| Given the human capacity to do that, and maybe even to revel in it, maybe even to enjoy it, what can possibly be done? | ||
| And and you know people often perform that sort of atrocity under the guise of ideological Commitment well, I'm persecuting the Jews because I'm actually a really good guy. | ||
| Here's what I want. | ||
| Here's my good intentions, right? | ||
| You know, here's my good intentions and they just happen to be collateral damage and so it's actually moral and ethical that I'm doing this but really they're they're just just taking the opportunity to To act out their their deep deep hatred of being and hatred of reality and and and contempt for humanity well, I wrote maps of meaning in an attempt to Understand that motivation and to determine what people could do so that if the opportunity arose once again Each individual would not choose to be an Auschwitz camp guard So what do you think? | ||
| And I would welcome everyone will put the link yeah What do you think is the best way to extricate yourself from that type of thinking? | ||
| What's the best way to insulate yourself so that when the day comes and you are faced with some horrific choice that you don't jump in with the collective and, you know, the Nazi guards that, of course, the phrase that they always said was, well, I was just following orders. | ||
| but orders allowed them to do absolutely horrific things. | ||
| So what can we all do to make sure that as the choices come to us, | ||
| whatever they may be, that we don't do the horrible thing? | ||
| Well, a lot of people have thought through this. | ||
| You know, Viktor Frankl, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning, he came to a particular conclusion, and so did Dostoevsky, so did Alexander Solzhenitsyn, so did Vaclav Havel, who was the dissident, Czech dissident, who eventually became president. | ||
| They all said the same thing. | ||
| Those systems exist because people lie. | ||
| And the way you fight them is you don't lie. | ||
| You don't lie about anything, ever. | ||
| And so that's what you do, and you think, well, how can that make a difference? | ||
| Well, Solzhenitsyn said... Solzhenitsyn wrote the Gulag Archipelago in the 1970s, and he detailed the transformation of the Marxist philosophical doctrine into the murderous legislation that killed perhaps 50 million people in the Soviet Union between 1919 and 1959. | ||
| Said the entire society was pervaded by lies. | ||
| Well, one-third of the people were government informers. | ||
| You could never say anything that That that you believe to be true and it starts by people doesn't start by people Directly lying it starts by people muffling themselves because there are certain things you can no longer say and you you demolish your character you weaken your character, but through sins of omission and you get weak and as soon as you're weak people can manipulate you like mad and | ||
| So the way you fight back against totalitarianism is that you tell the truth and you act out the truth your truth You know and you you you subject yourself to correction from other people because the truth truth is a process, right? | ||
| It's a process of successive approximation and that's far more powerful than anything else you can do You know, it's interesting, I'm curious, do you think people, the average person, is actually starving for truth? | ||
| Really, I don't mean like human truth of the origins of the universe, although many of us are, but I mean just simple truths about how our politicians operate, how our lives operate. | ||
| are day-to-day truths because I find all the time people will email me and say, you know, | ||
| it's so great what you're doing and free speech and all that stuff. And my response to everybody | ||
| is I don't think I'm doing anything that great other than telling the truth the way I see it. | ||
| I'm trying to use logic and reason to talk to people I find interesting, to learn and expand | ||
| my knowledge. And that's my quest for truth. And I think people have been so dumbed down | ||
| that they're almost afraid of finding it because the system has just rewarded idiocy in a way. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well people, you know, it says in the New Testament that man does not live by bread alone and and that's a technical commentary on the utility of the truth. | ||
| The truth is The truth is you could say spiritual food and and I use that metaphor purposefully You you you you live on information. | ||
| You're you're a cognitive apparatus you live on information and in information you transform into it you transform into Information into the tools you use to operate within the world and if your tools are faulty Then your life will be terrible if you're if you're fed on a diet of deceit Then you'll be you'll be pathological in everything you do and the world will kick back at you extraordinarily hard the first thing it'll do is deprive you of any sense of meaning and Then it'll make you bitter and then it'll make you resentful and then it'll make you murderous and then it'll make you genocidal That's the developmental pathway | ||
| You know, and those kids, the people who shoot up the high schools, they've already hit murderous. | ||
| They're like, they're nigh on the way to genocidal. | ||
| And part of the reason is, is that a life that's characterized by nothing but deceit has no positive meaning in it, but plenty of suffering. | ||
| Because you can lie to yourself and you can lie to other people, but the probability that you're going to be able to talk yourself out of your terror and pain is zero. | ||
| And as far as I can tell, truth is the only genuine antidote to suffering. | ||
| Because getting rid of suffering, that isn't going to happen. | ||
| The only thing you can do is live in a manner that enables you to withstand suffering without becoming corrupt. | ||
| And that means that you live by the truth, and no matter what. | ||
| And then there's a coda that goes along with that, which is something that took me decades to understand. | ||
| Kierkegaard talked about this a fair bit when he talked about the leap of faith necessary for true religious belief. | ||
| Telling the truth is a it's a it's a it's a gamble on the benevolence of being So the idea is well You tell the truth. | ||
| You don't manipulate the world to make it give you what you want You just say what you try to articulate yourself and articulate your manner of your being as clearly and comprehensively as | ||
| possible and then you see what happens and You decide this is the act of faith | ||
| you decide that no matter what happens if you tell the truth, but that's the best possible outcome and | ||
| Thing is is that at the bottom of your being there's always a decision that has to be made about how you're going to | ||
| interact in the world because you have free choice, whatever that | ||
| means you seem to have it and and so you have to make a decision about about how it is | ||
| that you're going to act in the world and and you act in truth if you can | ||
| That's the that's the pathway out of out of the kind of misery that makes people bitter and and and and and far | ||
| worse than bitter | ||
| Yeah, well it's incredibly obvious to me that you're living in your truth and because you're doing that, you're waking up a lot of other people, which is why so many people wanted me to talk to you. | ||
| So what do you think, this will be the final question, what do you think is the best way to, for all the people that are watching this right now that understand this, that hear you, I can tell you. | ||
| Alright, so most of your viewers will have watched Pinocchio. | ||
|
unidentified
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Probably. | |
| Can they get involved in this process? Is it simply just doing? | ||
| Yeah, I can tell you. All right. So most of your viewers will have watched Pinocchio | ||
| Probably the scene in Pinocchio where Geppetto wishes on a star | ||
| Right. And what it means is he lifts up his eyes beyond the horizon to something | ||
| Transcendent to something ultimate because that's what a star is | ||
| It's part of the of the eternity of the night sky And so he lifts his eyes up above his daily concerns and he | ||
|
unidentified
|
says what I want What | |
| What I want more than anything else is that my creation will become a genuine individual. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| It's a heroic gesture because it's so unlikely. | ||
| And that catalyzes the puppet's transformation into a real being. | ||
| And we start as puppets. | ||
| And so the trick is to get rid of your goddamn strings. | ||
| And you remember in Pinocchio, he faces a lot of temptations. | ||
| One is to be a liar. | ||
| The other is to be a neurotic victim. | ||
| That's how he ends up in Pleasure Island, where he just about gets sold into the salt mines. | ||
| Turns into a brain jackass and sold to the salt mines. | ||
| Because it's run by authoritarians. | ||
| Well, okay, so what you do is you lift up your eyes and you say, look, I would like being to progress in the best possible manner. | ||
| And that's best for me, best for my family, best for society, maybe best for the world. | ||
| Simultaneously, I would like to attain that. | ||
| Whatever that is, that's what I want. | ||
| You commit to that. | ||
| Then you tell the truth. | ||
| And then you can tell if you're telling the truth. | ||
| You can tell it physiologically. | ||
| And so this is something to learn. | ||
| You watch what you say, and you will find out that some things you say make you come apart. | ||
| They make you fall apart. | ||
| And you can feel it. | ||
| It's physiologically. | ||
| It's centered in your solar plexus. | ||
| It's a feeling of chaotic weakness and dissolution. | ||
| It's a sense of self-betrayal. | ||
| And then if you tell the truth, that pulls you together and strengthens you. | ||
| And so you can learn to feel when your words are accurately articulating yourself. | ||
| And then you practice that. | ||
| And that makes you into the sort of person that won't be an Auschwitz guard, that won't play ideological games, that won't sacrifice other people to their expediency. | ||
| And that's what you have to do. | ||
| And that's really the core idea in Western civilization, is to build yourself into a forthright individual who's capable of telling the truth and capable of bearing the responsibilities of citizenry. | ||
| And that's what people have to do. | ||
| Well, Jordan, you eloquently and passionately spoke about so many of the things that I care about and so many other things that I've tried to live my life for. | ||
| And you've also partly renewed my spirit to keep doing those things. | ||
| And I think you've given a little bit of that star to a lot of the people that were wondering, where the hell is everybody on this? | ||
| So you absolutely have an ally in me. | ||
| And I hope next time you come to the States, we can do this in person. | ||
| And if there's anything I can do for you, please let me know. | ||
| And your videos are at youtube.com slash Jordan Peterson videos. | ||
| And as you said, Saturday, are you live streaming on Saturday? | ||
| Is that live streaming? | ||
| Live stream, yep. | ||
| Okay, well, I'll be sure to tweet that out. | ||
| And thank you. | ||
| It was a pleasure to talking to you. | ||
| And good luck. | ||
| I have a feeling our site is coming around. | ||
| So I hope so. | ||
| It's a long fight, but we're in it. | ||
| Yeah, we're in it. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. |
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