All Episodes
March 25, 2016 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
01:27:53
On Donald Trump, Censorship, and Free Speech | Milo Yiannopoulos | POLITICS | Rubin Report
Participants
Main voices
d
dave rubin
26:15
m
milo yiannopolous
59:51
| Copy link to current segment

Speaker Time Text
dave rubin
We're officially entering the completely insane phase of the 2016 election.
I know it feels like we've been here for about a year now, but if you think the political theater has been crazy so far, trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet.
It seems that everyone you know is starting to crack, right?
I mean, you can just open up Twitter or Facebook and every second of the day it seems like someone is writing something crazy.
Nobody has a clue as to what's going on anymore.
And you don't have to take my word for that.
Just turn on CNN or Fox or MSNBC and listen to the pundits who got everything wrong for the last six months explain how the next six months are going to go.
These are the experts in what I have no idea.
Last week I discussed what I consider to be the biggest risk of a Trump presidency.
We have a salesman doing a hell of a sales job, but we really don't know what kind of product we're going to end up with in the end.
As some of you pointed out, the notion of not knowing how someone will act once in office is actually no different than with most politicians.
They pretty much all will say anything to get elected and then do whatever they can to stay in power.
Ironically, this endless loop of promises made and broken by politicians who just want to stay in office is exactly what has led to the rise of Donald Trump.
People are sick of the status quo and are willing to turn to a reality TV host as their savior.
Some of you pointed out if my question of whether Trump would even believe in our three branches of government was legit.
Many presidents have done plenty via executive action, effectively circumventing Congress.
And usually, like in the case of Barack Obama, they're against using executive actions until they're in office themselves.
Of course, presidents shouldn't get all the blame for executive actions.
It's not as if this Congress has been eager to get anything done.
With the President.
Regardless of who's to blame though, the average person sees usurping of power and Washington gridlock.
In their minds, is a regular politician gonna get our country out of that pattern?
No, but an over-the-top businessman might.
While we can parse out why Trump has risen, the fact is he is here and all of us have to acknowledge there is a political movement brewing on the horizon.
It may not be the one you like, but trying to silence Trump supporters by blocking roads to rallies or by labeling all his supporters racist isn't going to stop his rise.
Actually, it's just going to make his support that much stronger.
This is why I always talk about the battle of ideas on this show.
And it's not only why I talk about them, it's why I invite guests from all over the political map to share in their views.
And guess what?
Yeah, sometimes they say things that I don't agree with, but I don't shout them down.
The only way we can ever make progress is by hearing others.
This should be the number one principle of being a progressive, but these days it's not even on their top ten list.
If you hate Trump, if you think his comments about Muslims are horrible, if you think his border wall is terrible, and you think his general disposition is disgusting, then use your speech to promote a candidate with better ideas.
If you like Bernie, then help Bernie get the vote out.
If you like Hillary, then tell your friends why.
If you like Ted Cruz, well then you're the only one, but good for you.
The point is, we've never needed a battle of ideas more in this country than we do right now, and we shouldn't be afraid to have it.
But here's the scary part.
A battle of ideas means actually hearing people out.
So yes, you can use your free speech to protest Trump or anyone else.
That's as American as it gets.
What a big goddamn deal if you're offended.
Suck it up and move on like you should have learned in fourth grade.
Do you think the people who blocked the road to the Trump rally changed the mind of one person that they stopped from getting there?
No.
They actually did the complete opposite because they didn't have a battle of ideas.
They had a battle of Mad Max Fury Road on a highway in Arizona.
My guest this week is the infamous, notorious, and always outspoken Milo Yiannopoulos.
Milo is a provocateur whose rise to stardom in some ways mirrors Trump's, which might explain his support for the Donald.
Milo is using all the tools of the internet to spread his message against the authoritarians.
Not only does he always get a reaction, but he's paid the price losing his blue Twitter verification check and being protested at several universities on his current college tour.
He's sort of a micro-Trump in that he uses the media to fuel his ascent to stardom.
While I have many differences of opinion with Milo, we find ourselves as allies in the war on free speech and against ideologies that would silence us both.
There is way more that unites us as a people and as a country than the media will ever tell us.
Decency, respect, and humanity just aren't very clickable.
Riots, protests, and violence will always be the lead story, thus fueling the fire of intolerance.
That's why I said you ain't seen nothing yet.
We could end up with a contested convention for the Republicans, a super-delegate revolt by the Democrats, a sudden third-party candidate, or who knows what else.
The important thing is that we learn to respect one another while this insane process unfolds around us.
If our leaders aren't going to be great, then it's time for us to do some leading ourselves.
Milo Yiannopoulos is a senior staff editor for Breitbart News, a speaker, and has been named the ultimate troll by the Fusion Network.
Milo Yiannopoulos, welcome back to the show.
milo yiannopolous
Thank you so much for having me.
Am I the first person to come back?
dave rubin
You are the second, well, maybe the third or the fourth.
I know you want to be first at everything.
milo yiannopolous
I generally am.
In fact, it's better than that.
I'm normally way ahead of my time.
In fact, I'm normally so early at everything that people think I'm crazy until six months later.
dave rubin
I used to have a guy that I wrote comedy with who used to always say, Dave, we're so ahead of the curve, we're behind it.
So maybe that's where... Maybe that's me.
Maybe that's where you are.
milo yiannopolous
That's why I'm so unpopular.
I don't know.
dave rubin
Yeah.
No, we've had a couple, a couple repeat guests, but in a way you're sort of the most important.
Not that I have to inflate your ego because I know you like that, but a tremendous amount of stuff has happened since we had you on.
So you were on, I think it was the middle of October.
So we're only, we're, you know, we're five or six months away from that, right?
milo yiannopolous
Show's getting great, by the way.
dave rubin
Thank you.
Love it.
And a lot has happened in this space that we exist, this cultural libertarian space.
So we got a lot to get to, but let's start with what's happening today.
So this morning there was this terror attack in Brussels at the airport and at a train station over there.
It's still unfolding.
So right now we're taping this.
It's Tuesday afternoon here in Los Angeles, so some stuff obviously will change.
Why don't you just give me your initial thoughts on what's going on?
milo yiannopolous
Well, this is sort of what liberalism has welcomed into Europe.
This is the excuse-making that's been made for radical Islam, which has prevented us from fighting this problem by people who lie about the source of these people, the news stations who refuse to accept that these attacks have anything to do with Islam, the people who won't even use the word Muslim before it happens.
This is preventing us from fixing the problem.
This is preventing people from taking adequate security precautions, looking after themselves.
Europe now, you know, welcoming in millions of people from alien cultures whilst the establishment refuses to accept that these people's belief systems are just dramatically incompatible with our own.
And, you know, the regular citizenry is being lied to and lied about constantly, all the time by the media on this stuff.
We have a population that is not able to protect itself, that is not adequately informed about the risks, the dangers of radical Islam.
And the problem in Europe is that this stuff is now happening everywhere.
No one is safe anywhere in Europe.
It's happened in Paris, it's happened in London, it's happened in Brussels.
No one is safe from this stuff.
And what do our politicians leap to the airways to say?
I really want to make it clear that it has nothing to do with Islam.
Well, it does.
It does.
And as a gay man, you know, I'm terrified by the prospect of mass Muslim immigration into Europe.
It's one of the reasons I spend so much time in America now.
I don't want to be there anymore.
dave rubin
Yeah, so let's back up a little bit.
It's interesting that your initial response to that is to talk about our reaction to it rather than the ideology.
milo yiannopolous
You know what I mean?
Because nothing surprises me about this.
dave rubin
You're not denying the ideology.
milo yiannopolous
Nothing surprises me about this.
Why are we surprised that Muslims are blowing things up?
That's what they do.
I don't care about that.
It's horrific for the people who are on the receiving end of this terrorist stuff, but is anybody surprised that ISIS blew something up?
dave rubin
Right.
So I'm going to save you a little of internet hate.
You do make the distinction between the nominal Muslim person, the average person that's a Muslim that doesn't take their religion You don't need to do me that favour.
milo yiannopolous
No, I don't care too much for that distinction.
It is not extremists.
It's not radical Islamists.
It's not the people the security services are worried about that are the problem.
It is the silent majority of Muslims who do nothing in this situation, have no peace movement, no resistance to their own extreme elements, just like the progressive left in the West.
And in 11 countries, you and I could be killed for who we are?
That's not ISIS.
That is mainstream Muslim culture.
And we are importing that stuff into Europe in millions.
No, I don't make a meaningful distinction between these things because I don't care.
I don't see any reason to import these cultures into liberal Western democracies.
I see no reason to do it whatsoever.
And as Bridget Gabriel once very brilliantly said, in any case, The peaceful majority are irrelevant.
It is not the peaceful majority that blow up buildings.
It is the extremists.
And right now in the world, all of this stuff is coming from one culture and one religion, and I don't want it here.
dave rubin
So what do we do about that then?
What do you actually do?
We can't bomb these people into oblivion.
It's an ideology.
The radical part of this is an ideology, right?
So how do you beat An evil ideology.
milo yiannopolous
We don't have to welcome 1.4 million of them into Germany.
We don't have to lie to people about what Islam is and what Muslims believe, which the press and our politicians do all the time.
We don't have to intervene in their countries where it's not necessary, where we don't need to.
I was supportive of the Iraq War, but some of the other things we do in the Middle East are not necessary and just drum up this Western hatred.
dave rubin
So you don't deny that some of what's going on has something to do with the West, right?
milo yiannopolous
No, I'm not saying we're responsible for it.
dave rubin
Well, I'm not parsing out blame, but you do see some connection, right?
milo yiannopolous
Well, you would be an idiot to deny it.
dave rubin
I'm dealing with a lot of idiots here on the left.
milo yiannopolous
Yes, you are dealing with a lot of idiots on the left.
Most of them.
It's the only reason I do your show.
You're one of the very few liberals with a brain.
dave rubin
I'm starting to not think that's a compliment.
unidentified
A lot of people say that to me and I'm starting to think maybe that's a compliment.
milo yiannopolous
Is it a compliment?
I don't know.
It puts you up to average.
Is that a compliment?
I have no idea.
I mean, look, the problem is not just radical Islam.
The problem is Islam.
There are structural problems for this religion that mean it is incompatible with the modern, free, Western liberal democracy we live in, and particularly for you and me, and is also a problem for women.
There are very serious problems with Islamic culture.
Not Islamist, you know, Jihadist extremism.
And of course that plays itself out, and it played itself out in the streets of Brussels, and it plays itself out with far too much regularity.
But with Islam, there is a problem, and nobody wants to talk about it.
And what you tried to do earlier to save me from myself, I don't want it.
Because now... I respect that.
I don't want it.
Because I've got to the point where I'm thinking, look, the West, the West that Islam hates so much, It's what has given us gay rights.
It has given women the vote.
It has ended slavery, which is not the case everywhere in the world.
It has given gay people and women all of the rights we now enjoy.
There is effective blanket equality in the West for all of these people.
dave rubin
And every other minority, too.
milo yiannopolous
Exactly.
Importing Muslims is going to turn the clock back.
And this is what you talk about when you coin and popularize this phrase, regressive left, which came from this show, right?
But you don't go far enough.
What does a regressive left mean?
It means it's going to take us backwards into an era of hatred and bigotry.
Well, the left seems to want to import Muslims by their millions into all of our countries.
That's a regressive consequence.
And it's not just terrorism.
dave rubin
So what do you think is going on with these people?
I know many of these people very well.
I've worked with a lot of these people.
Why do you hang out with these losers?
Well, I don't anymore.
Weird.
Sickos.
milo yiannopolous
Judge a man by his friends, you know.
dave rubin
But this ideology, I mean, even this morning on Twitter as I was scrolling through all the craziness that every time there's a terror attack, you know, you get every, you know, avenue of craziness, I saw someone, a girl, a twenty-something year old girl in Belgium, she actually tweeted that the hashtag Stop Islam, the hashtag itself, she said that's worse than what actually happened.
I'm not kidding.
milo yiannopolous
You see this every time.
You see this every time.
The left believes that words have power they don't have, right?
They think that you can stop somebody from being homophobic by banning the word gay from the playground.
They think that you can end racism by banning the n-word.
They think that if you shape language and control culture, that you can stamp out bigotry.
But that's not how it works.
The point of a civilized society, the point of etiquette and the point of negotiating the world around us, And negotiating with other people is to live with one another despite our prejudices and despite our differences.
The purpose of a civilised society ought to be to enable everybody to live together in harmony, which is why I hate what the gay lobby does when it bullies and ridicules Christians.
Christians aren't going away, you know?
You're not going to bully Christianity out of existence.
You're not going to ridicule Christianity out of existence just because BuzzFeed doesn't like people who believe in God.
The purpose of society is to get everybody to, you know, and we were doing a good job of that.
You know, the West is doing a pretty good job of that, right up until we started importing Muslims.
dave rubin
That, I mean, you're giving me a lot there that sort of is going to be the through line for everything else we're going to discuss.
So, you know, let's just jump into it.
Let's just go into some of the free speech stuff.
So a lot of things have happened to you over the past few months.
Your star has risen.
Last you were here, you had a blue Twitter verification check.
You do not have it anymore.
You are, as far as I know, the only public person to have Their blue verification check, for those that don't know what it means, I mean, it basically means you are who you are.
So that if you're a celebrity or you're a politician... It's identity verification.
Yeah, it's just saying you are who you are.
That's it.
Right?
But you had yours removed.
unidentified
Yes.
dave rubin
I don't think there's been any other case of that happening.
And it clearly was a punitive measure.
So just real quick, though, before... I just want people to understand, we're not doing this to be so insider.
Oh, my little Twitter account got whatever.
unidentified
No, it matters.
dave rubin
But there's a bigger issue.
milo yiannopolous
It matters because Twitter is using Yeah.
using a mechanism to protect public figures like us from impersonation.
And also there are privilege concerns.
When somebody is speaking to me in my role as a journalist, they have an expectation
of privacy and of legal privilege.
Now people are DMing people with my name on Twitter, giving personal information about
their lives.
That exposes Twitter to liability too, by the way.
There's a reason why it's a good idea to have public figures verified, but they used it
as an ideological weapon.
Now when I went to the White House to ask about this, I asked Josh Earnest about this
And he said, very interestingly I thought, The President would be the first to affirm that the success of these social networking companies rests on their commitment to First Amendment principles.
Now, he wasn't saying you can enforce the First Amendment on private companies.
Right.
I'd get thrown out of the Conservative Club if I tried to.
Quite to suggest that.
dave rubin
And just to be clear, the First Amendment is about the government taking away your free speech, not people taking away your free speech.
milo yiannopolous
But the late Aaron Schwartz, the founder of Reddit, said, you know, censorship has a meaning outside the government when private companies have a monopoly on certain kinds of speech.
Now Twitter certainly does.
Not only because it has such a stranglehold on journalism and the media, but also because it's invented an entirely new public square.
If you're in a pub and you make a joke that involves race or sex or whatever, and the publican doesn't like it, you can go to another pub down the road.
There is no other Twitter, alright?
This is a fundamentally important part of our media and our democracy.
dave rubin
So they're controlling, basically, one of the big highways of information.
milo yiannopolous
Right.
And it comes with responsibilities.
It comes with responsibilities.
Your users do one of two things.
One, be honest and say, you know what?
We're a liberal space.
If you're a conservative, sooner or later you're going to get banned.
We don't really want you here.
But you can stay for as long as you know you don't piss us off too much.
And I piss them off too much.
dave rubin
And they have banned people, not you.
milo yiannopolous
They ban people all the time, always in one direction.
dave rubin
You were temporarily banned also, right?
milo yiannopolous
Oh, I get suspended now and again because I make jokes about feminists or whatever.
I said that I'd been appointed social justice editor of BuzzFeed as a joke, obviously.
dave rubin
Right, a lot of people took you seriously.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, which was the point.
It was funny.
Idiots, you know?
Idiots.
And then immediately after that, when people were tweeting Ben Smith, their boss, and saying, how dare you hire this man?
I'm never reading BuzzFeed again.
When I knew that it had taken hold, then I started the hashtag Feminism is Cancer.
And I did polls.
Would you rather your children had feminism or cancer?
And 22,000 people voted, and they voted for cancer.
And I had cancer survivors atting me, saying, I'm a two-time cancer survivor, and I still chose cancer.
Funny.
I mean, I thought it was funny.
Anyway, they didn't like that very much.
The point is, if you are these days irreverent, mischievous, provocative, and to do those things you have to be a conservative, because the establishment is not just liberal, but progressive liberal.
If you want to be punk these days, you want to be cool and dissident and mischievous, you have to be a conservative.
And if you are that on Twitter, sooner or later you're going to lose your account.
Now, they should be honest about that.
They should enforce free speech and not this weird definition of free speech that Jack Dorsey seems to have, the CEO of Twitter.
He seems to think that it's a sort of freedom from rather than freedom to.
So free speech on Twitter means freedom from conservatives, freedom from different points of view.
And it plays into the safe space and trigger warning culture that I know that you and your listeners know more than enough about already.
It's freedom from ever having to be exposed to anything that might make you feel uncomfortable.
Well, that's not what freedom of speech is.
He needs to stop lying to users that Twitter is the free speech wing of the Free Speech Party.
It's very clear, if you go off reservation on most of these social networks, you're going to be punished.
And Facebook too, by the way, is teaming up with Angela Merkel in Germany.
I think everybody knows this now.
dave rubin
Yeah.
milo yiannopolous
To censor perfectly reasonable mainstream discussion from citizens who are concerned about mass immigration into their country, about millions of people coming into their country, about the rape epidemics, about all sorts of awful things that are happening to young German girls.
Facebook won't let you talk about it.
dave rubin
You know, just to prove that this is true and that you're not making this up, I've had two instances... I'm not making this up.
Yeah, but I have two instances where I have a decent connection at Facebook.
And I've had two instances, one where my former guest, Faisal Saeed Al-Mutar, who's been here twice, who is from Iraq, a refugee from Iraq, who is now living in the West and fights for western values, his page got banned because people didn't like that he was speaking out against Islamism.
And then I had a group of atheist Muslims that their page got banned as if it was hate speech.
milo yiannopolous
So, what you're saying, I'm just giving, I just want people to understand, it's actually real, you're not just... They do it, no, they do it to everybody and they don't even care now about violating their own sacred tenets.
You know, this identitarian, you know, nonsense where you're sort of in a protected class from, you know, as far as liberals are concerned, if you're a woman or if you're gay, if you're black, whatever.
You know, now there are universities that are, there are university students who are no-platforming black transsexuals because, you know, they get invited by Jews.
This stuff has become insane.
And they don't mind.
They don't mind if you're gay or if you're brown-skinned or whatever.
What they will not tolerate is diversity of opinion.
You know, the diversity of skin color has gone out the window now.
If you want to cry victim, if you want to pretend you're an oppressed class, you'll get all sorts of plaudits from the left.
You'll get all sorts of rewards.
They don't care so much about that, however, what they really don't want, what they are terrified of, because they can't fight it with facts.
Is libertarian and conservative points of view.
And that freedom from ever being challenged on anything.
That freedom from ever having to encounter something with which you might disagree or something that might make you feel uncomfortable or something that might ridicule you.
It's the definition of freedom that has taken hold on the left in America today, and it is poisonous, it is entirely antithetical to democracy, to the free and open exchange of ideas, to classical liberalism, to intellectual inquiry.
dave rubin
So that's what it is, though, really, that classical liberalism has really been pushed aside.
Well, nobody believes in it anymore.
Nobody even knows that it exists, I think.
milo yiannopolous
Well, certainly not in the universities I speak at.
I mean, I'm on my tour at the moment of universities, and the thing that has amazed me It's the extent to which the faculties at these universities don't just refuse to expose their students to different points of view.
They don't just ridicule conservative points of view.
They don't even know about them.
You know, it's been for a while fairly well known that the number one textbook, economics textbook, in this country, in America, you know, on set lists, is Karl Marx, right?
Say what you want about it.
It's kind of a conservative talking point.
But it's becoming increasingly clear, especially at liberal arts colleges that don't have any sort of federal regulations about, you know, what the sorts of things... the government doesn't get involved in what they teach.
In these liberal arts colleges, the professors don't even know alternative points of view, let alone teach their students.
When I go to these colleges and I suggest that perhaps you don't have to give 75% of your earnings away to the government for them to spend it on feminist dance therapy, perhaps this wage gap stuff isn't real after all.
Some of the students look at me with slack-jawed horror, shock, surprise.
It's like a revelation to them, the fact that somebody might come and actually ask for evidence-based policy.
And evidence-based beliefs, rather than this sort of bizarre ideology that they're being fed at the moment, which is only really flourishing because of the safe space culture and the trigger warning culture, because it can never be interrogated, because it can never be challenged, because it can never be... Nobody is allowed to say, well, what about this?
You know?
You're suggesting that women get paid, blah, blah, blah.
What about this?
And big damn deal!
dave rubin
By you, by Milo, showing up to a college and saying a couple things.
You're not... I've never heard you incite violence, right?
I've never heard you call to hurt anyone directly.
You're saying things... You're even admitting, I mean, I think it's clear that you're admitting that you do sometimes go over the line of what you even think is proper, sort of, to just elicit a response from people, right?
milo yiannopolous
Well, I don't say anything that isn't true, but I'll certainly use provocative language.
I mean, I don't, you know, I'll go up and I'll make black dick jokes and I'll do all that kind of stuff because, you know, it's...
dave rubin
We're still allowed to make jokes in this country.
milo yiannopolous
Because it's fun.
Well, no, well, you say that.
dave rubin
For now, for now.
milo yiannopolous
You say that, but Chris Rock, Seinfeld, all these comedians, and you understand this, comedians like gay people, we spoke about this the last time I was here, are sort of canaries in the coal mine with this stuff.
They understand the threats to creative freedom before everybody else.
And no, you can't make jokes in this country anymore.
You cannot make innocent jokes in this country anymore without running serious risk of professional damage and social censure.
And if you are a public figure making a joke about anything to do with race or gender or anything, you are at risk.
You are at risk from one of these mobs coming after you.
dave rubin
That's so funny because I'm obviously as big of a free speech proponent as could possibly exist.
And I think sometimes that I'm tweeting something and I'm thinking, man, if someone looks back on this in 10 years, if this ideology, if this leftist ideology keeps taking root, I'm going to be thrown in jail in 10 years.
milo yiannopolous
Well, I prefer to take a more courageous approach to it.
The proper response to outrage culture is to be outrageous, right?
I prefer to double down.
If somebody says that they find something offensive, I will tell a joke twice as bad.
Because words don't hurt you.
dave rubin
You get a certain leash, though.
Being British and gay, I think, gives you a certain leash.
milo yiannopolous
I like to think it's my hard work and fact-based reason that I recognize it's probably got more to do with my good looks and my hair.
dave rubin
It's the hair.
No, but you do get a certain leash because of your persona.
Now, you've built that yourself, so I don't mean that to discredit you in any way.
milo yiannopolous
Built is a misleading word.
unidentified
I've always been this ridiculous.
dave rubin
I feel that the regressives made me like this.
You feel you were born this way.
milo yiannopolous
I was born ridiculous.
We're forcing ridiculousness upon you because you have to make a point to the crazy people that you have to try to live with.
dave rubin
Right, so let's back up a little bit, because I want to talk a little bit more about the social media companies themselves.
So you've made a good point about Twitter.
I mean, there's no doubt that Twitter, we know that they're shadow banning, right?
Where popular people who say unpopular things suddenly just don't show up in time.
milo yiannopolous
I wondered about this for a while, and I was the one that broke the story, because I had confirmation from multiple people that they work with very closely, and Twitter admitted, yes, we absolutely do do this.
We whitelist certain accounts so they show up in the top of search results, and we blacklist some accounts so they don't.
And, you know, this is not in question.
It's not a conspiracy theory.
Many things on Twitter feel a bit like conspiracy theories.
Oh, they've banned another hashtag, and sometimes they might have done, and sometimes they definitely didn't, I'm pretty sure they're fiddling around with the regressive left hashtag.
They are fiddling around with it.
There's no question whatsoever, because they've admitted to sources that have come to us, that we've published as a result, they've admitted that they actively manipulate their network in order to favour people they like.
And often it's their business partners, but it's also people that they like ideologically.
dave rubin
So that really is 1984 kind of stuff, for what we can have in 2016.
This type of manipulating what people are talking about.
milo yiannopolous
They're perfectly entitled to do it.
They just need to stop lying about it.
dave rubin
Right.
milo yiannopolous
They're perfectly entitled to do it.
If they want to run their network like that, fine.
The business will collapse, the conservatives will leave, and most liberals actually also want to win on the merits.
They don't want the game to be rigged, right?
I mean, I like to think most liberals are nice, decent, honest people who would like to win on the merits.
dave rubin
I think most are.
milo yiannopolous
I haven't seen much evidence of that in the last 10 years.
dave rubin
It's only because we've been hijacked.
I really am affirmed.
I mean, I see what's happening.
milo yiannopolous
No, you haven't been hijacked.
I have so many friends like this, and you're all idiots.
It's very clear the movement has left you behind.
There's no space for free speech on the left, and not just this bit of the left, most of the left.
You are in a tiny slice on the left of people who still care about reason, rigor, fact, scrutiny, and free speech, and there is no place for you on the left anymore, so you need to come over and you need to just give in.
dave rubin
I didn't know you were going to do the sell job today.
You're doing the full sell job?
milo yiannopolous
I understand this whole, like, I'm a liberal who believes in free speech thing is good marketing, but give it up.
unidentified
Seriously.
milo yiannopolous
Because there's nothing for you on the left anymore.
dave rubin
Nothing.
milo yiannopolous
There's nothing for you on the left.
They don't even like you.
They don't like you.
They've decided now that if you're gay but you're white and a man, the white man bits of the privilege trump the gay bits.
And now they're telling us that our sexual preferences are racist.
Like, if you've got on your Grindr profile, you prefer white guys.
And I wrote a column on this.
It says the only joke that I ever had censored.
My employers are wonderful, so supportive and brilliant.
They let me write whatever the hell I want.
But this is the one that they said, are you sure you want to do that?
I said, well, my Grindr profile says blacks only.
Is that racist?
Although, of course, I wouldn't put blacks only, because that might put some people off.
I'll do words that create the same effect, you know?
Like, don't contact me if you're under seven inches and you know who your dad is.
So, that was the only joke, the only joke.
They're now policing our sexuality, you know?
And they're saying like, you know, that you, straight, white, gay men, well, it's the straight, white bit that's the problem.
Sorry, the white, gay men.
It's difficult to keep up with it, isn't it?
unidentified
It's a lot.
milo yiannopolous
It's a lot, it's a lot.
dave rubin
So that's sort of what I see with the problem with this ideology.
I know you're going to work this, by the next hour you're going to be working on it.
But what I see the problem is, is that there's never an end to it.
So they sort of used gays to get a little more power, and now they're done with it.
And that's what you're saying, right?
milo yiannopolous
Well, you've now realized that what we discussed in our last show, you were completely wrong, and I was completely right.
When I said you were part of the problem that you had brought out into this sort of domestication of homosexuals, the liberals just want to plonk you down in gay areas.
Where do you live?
You live in a gay area, don't you?
Of course you do.
You know, plonk you down with your dog and your husband and, you know, your nice domestic life, and now they've got you.
Now they've got you.
You'll be a Democrat voter forever, you know, it's easy, like they can move on to the next group, and they've just got you in the bag.
And the whole point we talked about last time, about sort of dissident gay culture, about the most exciting people being the free thinkers, I think you're now starting to realise I was right, which is lovely, very gratifying for me, wonderful.
unidentified
Well I realise that the left... See, again, six months ahead again.
dave rubin
Well, look, I realize without question that the left has lost its mind.
As to the point that it's a slice like this, I do think that the fight that my side of this on the left is starting to wake up in big numbers.
So I don't think we all have to somehow defect to you guys just yet as much as you'd like us to.
milo yiannopolous
When you say you guys, I mean, I'm not a Republican.
I mean, I'm British for a start.
I can't even vote here.
I mean, I'm a daddy supporter, but... Yeah, we're going to get to your daddy in a second.
I call Trump Daddy.
Everybody knows this now.
dave rubin
So, just wrapping up the social media stuff and free speech related to these companies.
If these companies are run by these social justice warriors, and it really does seem like, look, I don't want to lose my Twitter verification, so I don't get it.
milo yiannopolous
They're going to ban you.
dave rubin
You're going to lose it.
milo yiannopolous
You're going to go.
dave rubin
So, look, I don't want to lose that, and I don't want to be banned on Facebook, and we put our videos up on YouTube, obviously.
I saw last week, or two weeks ago, there was this organization that does translations from Arabic And all they do is translate what Imams are saying in mosques in the Middle East.
Killing all the Jews and killing all the gays.
milo yiannopolous
Sounds like a lovely job.
dave rubin
And they got banned for hate speech.
All they do is translate the hate speech.
milo yiannopolous
But liberals don't want you to know what the Muslims are saying.
They don't want you to know what's happening in these mosques.
Because if people knew about it, they might be less happy with this huge influx of immigration.
They might be less happy about having their own perfectly reasonable points of view censored.
And mischaracterised as hate speech.
This is what the left does.
It mischaracterises ridicule and criticism as abuse and harassment.
It mischaracterises perfectly valid ordinary anxieties that regular people are justified in having as hate speech.
I'm looking out on the world now and I'm thinking, people like Tommy Robinson from the EDL.
dave rubin
He's been on the show.
milo yiannopolous
Right, and I'm thinking, There were some things he said in the 90s, and whatever it was, you know, OK, fine, too much.
And the violence is obviously unacceptable.
But I'm listening to him now, and people are like, oh, Tommy Robinson, you know, is racist, bigot.
I'm listening to him now.
I can't find anything to disagree with.
I can't find anything to disagree with in the speech when he went to Oxford University, mapped out his life and how he saw his community changing and how he saw the police either hamstrung or actively lying about it, the government lying about it, the media lying about it.
All this stuff is now playing out on social media and the scary thing about these companies is that they are totally in lockstep with government.
Facebook, Germany, lockstep, you know, with Merkel.
dave rubin
Isn't there video of Zuckerberg and Merkel talking?
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, there's a recording of Merkel and Zuckerberg, yeah.
You know, Twitter, here, lockstep.
They have meetings all day every day with the government officials.
Lockstep on this stuff.
I don't know what they're going to do when Daddy gets into the White House, but no, it's terrifying.
dave rubin
I should tell people, when you say Daddy, you're talking Trump, just for the people that don't know all your lingo.
Just yet.
You're referring to Trump.
We'll get to that.
milo yiannopolous
I'm referring to the God Emperor.
The God Emperor and his incoming Trump and Reich.
dave rubin
So I've realized if I accomplish nothing else with you while sitting here, I want you... We've accomplished nothing so far.
We've made nothing happen so far.
But I want you to at least make the different distinction between when you talk about the left and leftists versus liberals.
milo yiannopolous
No, I don't want to make that distinction.
dave rubin
So you just think I'm just the outlier of this situation.
milo yiannopolous
I know you are.
dave rubin
I know I'm the outlier.
milo yiannopolous
BuzzFeed has 50 million viewers.
Whatever the hell numbers they have this week.
These people don't come from nowhere.
That's what the left is.
That's the left.
dave rubin
So that's the left.
You don't like that.
milo yiannopolous
You don't belong there anymore.
dave rubin
But I wouldn't call those people liberals anymore.
milo yiannopolous
It's a quirk of linguistic history that the American left It's called the liberal movement because they don't believe in liberalism.
They're not classical liberals.
But I'm sorry, you know, arguing over words like the left likes to do is not going to change the fact that the entire left side of the American political spectrum has gone mad.
And if you, you know, you just can't in good conscience vote Democrat.
If you, you know, if you don't believe in any of this stuff, if you want us to be able to have discussions like this, not just on your show, but on the national news and in the pages of the newspapers, if you believe in that, you cannot vote Democrat.
dave rubin
Well, that's where these motherfuckers have caught me.
They've really pushed me into a corner here because everything, all the free speech stuff, right?
You know, fighting against ideology, secularism, all of that stuff.
That's, right, that's my stuff.
That's the stuff I really care about.
milo yiannopolous
And the left is crazy on all of that.
dave rubin
And the left is, so the left right now is crazy on the stuff I care about most.
And I say that as someone that has never not voted Democratic, ever.
And here we are.
So that, now, as I've scared you, is the segue.
milo yiannopolous
There's a table, there's a table, we're okay.
dave rubin
Yeah, so let's move on to Trump.
So when you were here in October, I think you were just starting to get behind the Trump movement, but at that time... I was.
milo yiannopolous
At that time, I wasn't sure.
dave rubin
At that time, he had, you know, they had maybe had one or two debates.
Everybody was still saying this was a joke.
I think I was still saying it was a joke.
It's clearly not a joke anymore.
unidentified
It's not.
What is it?
milo yiannopolous
Was that a great Bob Markhouse line?
No one's laughing now.
Well, actually we are.
You know, Generation Trump are having a great time.
dave rubin
Yeah, you guys are having a great time.
milo yiannopolous
We're the only people who are laughing.
No, I did your show and I did Joe Rogan, who's also great.
I did his show and at that time I was like, well, do I really want Trump in the White House?
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure about that.
But I'm enjoying the spectacle.
My views have evolved.
dave rubin
Take me through the evolution.
milo yiannopolous
Well, you see, I care about all the things that you care about.
And I see the best way to accomplish what we collectively want to throw our lot in with a politician that doesn't look like the rest of them, that it terrifies the rest of them.
I mean, the prospect of a Trump candidacy, the prospect of a Trump presidency terrifies not just liberals, but conservatives too, because he threatens to blow apart The political consensus.
To blow apart... I mean, political correctness in particular, if you believe, as I do, that it is one of the great cancers of public life, there's nobody better situated to have fun with that than Trump.
If you believe that, you know, not just the left, but the right has lost its way too.
dave rubin
If you believe that, you know... Wait, let's do one of these at a time.
So if you believe that you want to just blow the system apart, the first thing that you mention... I'm an engine of chaos.
milo yiannopolous
I think they're all... Am I allowed to say...?
dave rubin
You can say whatever you want.
milo yiannopolous
I can say what I want?
dave rubin
So you're like the Joker in Batman, in the movie, right?
He just wanted chaos.
milo yiannopolous
People say that and then I start.
Yeah, say whatever you want.
dave rubin
They're cunts.
So basically you'd want to burn the system down.
milo yiannopolous
When I see GOP politicians telling CNN reporters, I think it was CNN, you know, The public doesn't pick the candidate.
We pick the candidate.
I just think to myself, you deserve to burn.
You know, these people don't like the public.
They don't like their own electorates.
And the Republican Party has become as hostile to its own base as liberals have always been.
They've started talking about their own base in the same way that liberals always have.
You've got National Review publishing disgusting things about white working class Americans.
Just awful.
These people aren't going away.
And these people are angry and frustrated.
And what's interesting about Trump, I think, is he's captured the imagination of a huge swathe of the population from what you might call traditional Trump supporters.
You know, the veterans, you know, the white working classes who feel very disoriented by this new globalized world and very concerned about mass immigration for wage reasons and for cultural reasons, too.
And they're right to be concerned.
dave rubin
Both of those accounts.
milo yiannopolous
And the question I always get asked, and I don't mean to disrespect that group at all, because that group is my readership and I love them, but when people ask me why do smart people vote Trump, what they mean is why do people like us vote Trump?
Because we're not supposed to, right?
Not you, I mean, obviously not you, but why do people like me vote?
Why would I vote Trump?
Why do media types vote Trump?
And the answer to that is he represents the best hope we have of smashing political correctness apart, of breaking open all of the taboos, the stuff you're not supposed to say, allowing real debate to be had again.
Today, it is impossible in America to have an honest discussion about the wage gap, about whether or not men and women get paid different amounts of money.
We won't get into that today.
But you can't do it.
dave rubin
Well, we can use radical Islam as a more relevant example.
You can't do it.
milo yiannopolous
You can't have an honest discussion.
You would lose your job or you wouldn't get invited back.
You'll never get a column at a national newspaper.
The Overton window is so narrow and pushed so far to the left that something big has to happen.
A big, tumultuous event needs to happen, and I believe that that event is a Trump presidency, because I think it will destroy the Republican Party, they will never win another election, which is what I want, and I think the same thing will happen on the left too, with, you know, the Sanders-Hillary kind of tearing apart.
dave rubin
Oh, it's coming on the left, I have no doubt.
milo yiannopolous
What I want, and I think this might be what you want, What I want is a sort of new political realignment on libertarian authoritarian lines rather than left and right.
And I want a new consensus to emerge of disaffected liberals, classical liberals, dissident minorities like gays, small state conservatives, libertarians, people who basically want to be left alone.
People who believe that government should have some limited functions but our culture should not be policed.
Our language should not be policed.
We should be able to do, be, say, think and act exactly as we please.
Now I believe there is a majority in this country who would get behind that sort of cultural insurgency and this election Is the first election in American history that is being fought not on foreign policy and not on economics, it's being fought culturally.
And it has been excited, it has been stirred up by a cultural figure, by a reality TV star, by an American icon.
I've come around to believe that actually having Trump in the White House would be wonderful.
And if he finds himself in the White House and isn't able to achieve very much – I mean, Daddy's going to build a wall, and Daddy's going to fix trade, and that's going to happen – if then things start locking up because he's got a non-compliant left and right in all the various machinery of government, I don't see that as a particularly bad thing.
One of the best Presidents in history was Coolidge.
Why?
Because he did absolutely nothing.
You know, having like a Coolidge with bluster would be no bad thing.
And all of the criticisms that are normally leveled at Trump, all of the stuff that people say is clownish and is populist, I don't see those things as intrinsically anti-presidential.
I mean, in fact, presidential material is very much in the eye of the beholder.
And clearly there are enough Americans who do believe that Trump is presidential.
What's really exciting about Trump is that he is In the same way that we are, I think, and I definitely am, Trump is a direct creation of the progressive left.
He has been brought about, he exists, because of the people that we both hate.
dave rubin
So I'm with you there.
I've been saying this for a long time.
milo yiannopolous
They've been bullied and policed and harangued and hected and name-called for so long.
They've told people that they are homophobes when they're not.
They've told people they're sexist when they're not.
They've told people they're racist when they're not.
They've told people they're transphobic and they don't even know what that means.
dave rubin
You're bringing out all the heavy weapons here to bring me over, because I get this.
unidentified
You're going to the things I... No, I'm not... But this is exactly why... I don't care.
milo yiannopolous
I don't care.
dave rubin
But this is why I've wanted to be to the left, because I didn't want this to happen.
milo yiannopolous
Well, it's too late now, buddy.
So, you know, either get on the train or, you know, who cares?
dave rubin
Okay, so do you not see some risk, even if I grant you all that, and you say a lot, so it's hard to get my questioning in order.
milo yiannopolous
You seem to have granted me all that.
dave rubin
Even if I grant you all of that, do you think that there's some risk that by unearthing all of the The ways we speak to each other.
Again, I say this as the most pro-free speech person there is.
I am definitely now seeing a real current of racism rising up, a real current of really hating Muslims, of really hating Jews, of really hating the other.
I mean, I'm seeing it bubble up on social media.
milo yiannopolous
You're misreading the situation.
dave rubin
So how am I misreading the situation?
milo yiannopolous
Well, you see, are we not worried about this stuff bubbling up?
It isn't bubbling.
It's always been there.
It's always there.
People have prejudices about people.
Sometimes those prejudices are right.
When I was speaking at Rutgers, one of the students asked, well, there are studies that show that white people think black people are loud and obnoxious, and that's racist.
Maybe that's a cultural thing.
Black people do use language differently.
And they just couldn't wrap their head around the fact that a prejudice might be right.
Now it's what you do with that sort of assumption or prejudice or whatever that matters, OK?
It may be that... Look.
Two things to say on this, right?
One is there's no hatefulness and racism and sexism and homophobia left in this country, really.
Most of the expression of that kind of stuff is driven by the left when it sort of You know, they go looking for homophobia.
They call around all these bakeries in the Midwest or whatever.
Finally, they find somebody who says, no, we'd rather not do a lesbian wedding.
Guys, we found some homophobia.
Excellent.
You know, they go all in on it.
Well, it makes me want to go out and bash queers when I see, you know, I'm so angry about it because it's just such obvious bollocks.
Now, the second thing, and you know, when you police down, like crush people, it creates, it creates exactly what you're claiming that you are looking for.
And that's the sort of Kafkaesque self-perpetuating cycle of the left.
dave rubin
And the second thing... And they're also using it specifically to attack Christians in this case, right?
Because you wouldn't go to, you don't see them going...
milo yiannopolous
No, it's ideological.
They're not interested in the bigotry.
They don't care about fixing bigotry, they care about hurting Christians and ridiculing Christians.
That's all true too.
The second thing is, you say you're seeing all this stuff bubble up on social media.
Well, let me take the ultimate example, what remains the big taboo in society, which is anti-Semitism, right?
Most of the generation Trump, the alt-right people, the people who like me, they're not anti-Semites.
They don't care about Jews.
They may have some assumptions about Jews.
They may have some prejudice about Jews, like the Jews run everything.
Well, we do.
The Jews run all the banks.
Well, we do.
The Jews run the media.
Well, we do!
You know?
I mean, they're right about all that stuff.
Now, what you do with that is the issue.
unidentified
But the reason they go on about it... I don't even know where to start with that, so just go.
We do.
milo yiannopolous
It's a fact.
This is not in debate.
It's a statistical fact.
Jews are on most of the banks.
Jews completely dominate the media.
Vastly disproportionately represented in all of these professions.
That's just a fact.
It's not anti-Semitic to point out statistics.
What you agree with me on feminism, like it's not Sex is to point out statistics.
I'm suggesting to you it's not anti-semitic to point out that these things are true.
Now, the anti-semitism on the internet, which is really important, and I want people to understand this because nobody seems to, when Jonah Goldberg of National Review or whatever is bombarded by these memes of whatever it is, Yeah.
And, you know, anti-Semitic, you know, take a hike, kike, all this kind of stuff.
It's not because there is a gigantic outpouring, a spontaneous outpouring of anti-Semitism from 22-year-olds in this country.
What it is, is that it's a mischievous, dissident, you know, trolly generation who do it because it gets a reaction, right?
That's been the case for young people for generations.
It's just that now they have access to things that really get under people's skin and internet-scale economics and, you know, viral dynamics.
Right.
And they can get to people in positions of power.
And people in positions of power keep biting.
And they keep taking the bait.
dave rubin
You know, look, if you— So that sort of explains—this is what I said at the beginning of the show, that you're sort of a micro-Trump to me, because your rise has been—I know you want to think you're bigger than Trump, but you're not.
milo yiannopolous
No, no, no, no.
Look, everybody's daddy to somebody.
I'm very happy for Trump to be my daddy, and I'll be daddy to, you know, everybody else.
dave rubin
But basically what you're saying is that they're just using the tools to get People angry and then it causes another reaction and then there's another reaction.
unidentified
It's trolling!
dave rubin
And that is what brought Trump around.
milo yiannopolous
It's trolling.
And this is a direct response to the language policing.
It's a direct response to people being told they can't say things.
What you've got to remember about the millennial generation, and my fans run as young, I get emails from 13 year olds, right?
These people don't know what the Holocaust was.
They don't know.
They don't have any living relatives who were in it.
They, in many cases, don't even really remember 9-11.
They haven't lived through these big traumatic events in world history.
They're just trolling, and they've recognised that saying stuff about Jews gets on the nerves of journalists.
I've seen that guy on Fox News, he's on the TV, and I just tweeted him this stupid Jew meme, and look at him, he's so triggered!
dave rubin
And you know what?
unidentified
It's fun!
milo yiannopolous
It's funny.
I find it funny.
Because once you recognise that it's not really about the Jew thing, it's about trolling and provocation, and that's the thing that they've identified works really well, you begin to, when you look at it, it starts to make more sense.
You're like, yeah.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Racism in this country?
I mean, there is no KKK.
What is it, like, a few thousand members left who are constantly told white supremacy is a problem?
There are no white supremacists.
There are no white nationalists.
They're not in the media.
They're not in politics.
They're nowhere.
You know, they have no purchase whatsoever, no influence, nothing.
If there is a racially supremacist movement, it's Black Lives Matter, and it's very well-funded, and it's massive, and it gets fawning coverage from the media.
There's no white supremacist movement in this country.
And what Trump supporters primarily are reacting to is being lied to and lied about for decades by the establishment.
And for me, Trump is a very necessary correction to that.
He is part of the cultural libertarian movement that you and I, I think, both would identify with.
I would say he is the ultimate icon of that movement.
dave rubin
So basically you think that nobody else could do this.
So I'm with you on a lot of this because we do meet in that cultural libertarian space.
And I get the language stuff.
And I get what you're saying about the anti-Semitism and all of that stuff.
I really do.
I understand that.
And that's why I never attack people.
I try not to fight with these people when they're attacking me on Twitter.
All they're trying to do is get lies out of you.
milo yiannopolous
They don't care about the subject because it's some 17-year-old kid.
And the left uses this 17-year-old kid crawling on the internet as evidence that there's some
uprising of anti-Semitism.
Are they nuts?
dave rubin
Right.
Well, the left doesn't do it with anti-Semitism because they're OK with that.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, they're fine with that, but they'll do it with everything else.
They certainly do it with the anti-feminism stuff.
They suggest that there is this epidemic of misogyny.
dave rubin
And they just find a random tweet.
milo yiannopolous
And they find all these tweets from young boys, you know.
See, the young girls are congratulated and applauded and encouraged to be hateful toward
men, right?
When they, you know, they can get involved in kill all white men hashtags, masculinity so fragile, you know, I bathe in male tears, you see teenage girls doing this stuff and it's hateful and it's horrible and they're going to be alone and miserable forever because feminists have ruined them, right?
When men do anything remotely similar, You know, they will come in for the most appalling censure, they get suspended from school.
This is why girls sweep under their own names very often, partly because they, you know, many of them are being trained into being cry bullies, they're being trained into being, you know, into putting provocations out there and then squealing, you know, victimhood.
They're being, girls are being taught that victimhood and grievance culture is the way to get what you want if you have no talent.
They're being trained into all of this stuff.
Boys, on the other hand, very often are anonymous.
They like Poll.
They like 4chan.
They like all of these places where they can go let off steam and get all that boisterousness out of their systems, which is a perfectly normal, healthy thing to do.
dave rubin
This is where they would also play video games and get some of that aggression out.
milo yiannopolous
Exactly!
And they call each other faggot and whatever.
Can you imagine what a career I could have made out of being offended by the word faggot?
I wrote a column saying I want faggot, gay and queer to be in common usage.
That's how you take the power away from these words, if you believe they have power.
Not banning them, elevating them up into these taboos.
So I wrote this column.
I said I want gay to be restored to its prestige meaning.
The real meaning of gay is like crap, rubbish, shit, lame, Hillary-supporting, I'm a grim fox.
That's what gay means.
It's not in the dictionary yet, but I'm sure they're getting around to it.
This is what I want gay to mean.
When somebody says something stupid, I want you to be able to say, that's gay.
Or stop being a faggot.
It doesn't mean anything.
These people aren't homophobes.
They do it because it gets to you.
And if there are any journalists watching this, please just learn this lesson.
dave rubin
Well, it does show you how pervasive the ideology is, this controlling ideology.
Because I see even now, when I'm with just some of my gay friends, Who are supposed to be the most over-the-top and not politically correct and all that, and actually they've become the most politically correct.
milo yiannopolous
The left has done this, the left has done this.
dave rubin
But that's, but so that's what, this goes to what I was saying earlier, that in a way this ideology, what it wants is not you, because it doesn't want you as the individual, it wants you as the collective.
milo yiannopolous
It wants you as the identity, right?
So you're black or you're gay or you're a tranny and it wants to put you in that bucket and tell you what you're supposed to believe about things and tell you how to get what you want even if you're not prepared to work and you have no skills because you can just pretend to be offended about things and you'll get on TV.
Yeah, they want you as a bucket, and gay men have fallen for this hook, line and sinker.
They're really fucked up.
But fortunately, there is an awakening in the gay community.
There is something happening, and there is something happening among gay people.
I've noticed it at dinner parties, and I've noticed it on social media.
There's something happening with gays.
They're beginning to recognise the left is not their friend.
They're beginning to rediscover the virtues.
When we were talking in the last show and I said, you know, one of the great things about gay life is you can be outrageous and different and you can topple out of a club on, you know, a Monday afternoon, like, drugged off your face and, you know, with a cock in every orifice.
You can do whatever you want, and it's that bit of gay life that creates all of the artists and inventors and geniuses.
It's why we're so over-represented and all the people that shove society forward, right?
That's the kind of gay life that I like.
That's the kind of gay life that I celebrate.
That's the kind of gay culture I think is valuable.
And gay people are starting to rediscover this, because they're starting to realise the left is not their friend, that feminists don't have their interests at heart, that in fact they're fundamentally hostile to many of the things that make being gay great.
dave rubin
Right, so for these guys, for gays, lesbians, whatever, when they see the left defending Islamism, and they go, wait a minute, I could be that person being thrown off the roof.
milo yiannopolous
These people want to throw us off roofs and put us on cranes in 11 countries.
Like, what are you doing?
dave rubin
And for some reason these guilty leftists feel the need to defend this idea.
Idiots, yes.
milo yiannopolous
How can you support this?
How can you support this?
I mean, you know, they want what they want.
They expect us to believe that above gay people, above women, above blacks, I mean the blacks is the worst thing, right?
I mean they actually, you know, there's one group of people in this country who have genuine grievances who To whom something is still owed, and that's the black community, right?
There is a legacy from slavery.
I don't happen to believe that Black Lives Matter is the answer, because I think it's hateful and divisive, and the only real result of Black Lives Matter is black cities in flames.
dave rubin
Wait, let's not gloss over that, because I think people are going to try to gloss over what you just said.
You're saying that the black community does have legitimate grievances?
unidentified
Of course it does!
dave rubin
They were brought here by and large as slaves.
unidentified
Of course it does.
milo yiannopolous
Would anybody ever suggest otherwise?
dave rubin
Well, I think a lot of people would say, you know, if you're against Black Lives Matter, you're against it.
milo yiannopolous
Nobody's done more for the black community than me, normally on my back.
But the issue is very straightforward.
Black Lives Matter is a hateful supremacy organization insofar as it's organized at all.
It's a movement of black supremacy.
It's a bad thing.
This is what the left likes to do.
It likes to divide people.
I forgot what we were talking about.
dave rubin
OK, so bringing this all back to Trump.
So what I haven't heard you say is anything related to policy.
But before I even let you answer that, I think what you're just saying is it's completely irrelevant.
That's what you're saying, that this movement has nothing to do... It's not a political movement in that there's nobody to take Trump's place after, right?
If Trump became president via all of this stuff, all of this cultural stuff... He'd be president after.
He's creating a cultural movement.
milo yiannopolous
I want to be press secretary.
dave rubin
You would be a good press secretary.
milo yiannopolous
I'd be a fantastic press secretary.
dave rubin
I'd back you.
milo yiannopolous
Can you imagine?
unidentified
Daddy doesn't feel like answering your questions today.
milo yiannopolous
I'm going shopping.
Put your comments in the box.
See you later.
dave rubin
But what you're talking about is a cultural revolution, not a political revolution.
So that's interesting, because Bernie, who's talking a lot about flip the system, and our system's corrupt, and money and politics, the same thing, he's talking about a political revolution.
And basically you're saying, forget that, that's a waste of time.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, because he's an idiot and he's 20 years out of date.
That would have worked before, when people were upset about, you know, economics, upset about foreign policy and politics.
It would have worked 10 years ago with the Iraq War.
Now this war is cultural.
There's a cultural war, and there's only one candidate for president fighting this war culturally, and it's Trump.
He doesn't care too much whether he is occasionally inconsistent on policy, because he understands that nobody else does either.
And he's very strong.
dave rubin
So that's a sad thing, though.
unidentified
That's sad.
milo yiannopolous
No, no, no.
dave rubin
I'm sad about that.
milo yiannopolous
I studied politics.
dave rubin
Sad over here.
milo yiannopolous
Why did you study politics?
Look, he's made two very clear statements.
One is that he wants to build a wall, and that's emblematic of what he believes about immigration, and illegal immigration in particular.
They can come over, as he says, but they've got to come over legally.
dave rubin
Which in and of itself isn't racist, right?
milo yiannopolous
I'm willing to... What's racist about that?
dave rubin
Well, people keep yelling racist.
milo yiannopolous
They're not even another race.
Mexicans aren't another race.
They're white, aren't they?
Are they white?
Because you Americans have this sort of Hispanic thing.
dave rubin
We're very confused.
milo yiannopolous
I'd have to get my chart out.
Well, you try to invent, like, divisions between people so that anything anyone says about anyone can somehow be called racist.
I mean, Hispanics are white, aren't they?
dave rubin
I'll bring the chart next time.
I don't want to get bogged down.
milo yiannopolous
This is a you thing, not a me thing.
You know, you people make these rules up.
We just have to live in it.
Live in your world.
I mean, no, of course it's not racist.
What he's saying is that there is, you know, and in fact, of course, his concerns about immigration benefit the black community more than anybody else, because when new Hispanic immigrants come in, it's black wages they depress, not primarily, necessarily, white wages.
dave rubin
By the way, Barack Obama said something to that effect when he was running for president the first time.
milo yiannopolous
Yes, he's done so much for the black community.
I mean, racial harmony in America now, you know, is such a lovely thing.
Eight years of Obama.
Don't we all just love each other after eight years of Obama?
No, he's been the most disastrous president for blacks in American history.
dave rubin
So is that Obama's biggest failure then?
That he came in with a political and cultural revolution, right?
It was political and it was cultural.
It had both elements to it, but what he's going to exit with...
Regardless, who comes in?
milo yiannopolous
Everything is worse, and everything is worse as a result of him.
dave rubin
Well, the economy's not worse, right?
The American economy is better right now than it was.
Well, OK, but... I mean, you give me... Look, gays can get married.
I know you're not a big proponent, but it's... No, I wish they would stop.
I know, but... I wish they would stop.
milo yiannopolous
In the name of equality, you're going to have to grant me that much.
Stop getting married, because you're ruining... You know, they don't work as hard, because they're all interested in... Oh, I know.
dave rubin
All of that, fine.
milo yiannopolous
Come over, Michael, I'll cook for you.
dave rubin
You can have all that!
milo yiannopolous
For God's sake!
dave rubin
But I know you're for equality, so I know you're okay with it.
unidentified
Ish.
dave rubin
Ish, right.
unidentified
Ish.
dave rubin
So is that really his failure?
That when he leaves this thing after eight years, what could be ushered in after, and not that it's purely his fault, but what could be ushered in after, is going to be a complete flip of the system?
milo yiannopolous
I don't know.
unidentified
That sounds... That sounds good to you, so it's not a failure of his?
milo yiannopolous
Well, no, I mean, I don't...
We live in exciting times when pretty much everyone in the country wants the establishment to suffer.
Pretty much everyone in the country hates journalists, hates politicians, hates the, you know, the more they find out about what their kids are being taught at college, largely thanks to me I think, they hate that too.
And we live in exciting times, people want to tear the system apart, they want to rebuild the system in a different way.
I've suggested that I'd quite like to do it along authoritarian-libertarian lines because I think that makes more sense.
the way people communicate these days and people's priorities.
I think people are more interested in culture than economics in this election.
That's the sort of realignment I want.
It may look very different.
What I like about Daddy, I like about Trump, is that he is introducing an element of realness
and an element of fun and mischief into an arena in which, into public life, which is
an arena in which there has been so little freedom and joy for so long that he's a necessary
correction.
You can't make jokes on TV anymore.
Life isn't fun anymore.
As a journalist, if I were a regular journalist, and if I'm not a regular journalist, because I work at a wonderful place, Bright Barber, that lets me do outrageous and crazy things, and obviously now I'm becoming this sort of media figure, I've got more license to do stunts, if I were a regular journalist, I'd be so... I mean, you know dozens of them, I know dozens of them.
It's a miserable life.
There's so much you can't say.
You can't tell the truth.
You can't tell facts because somebody somewhere will get upset.
You can't say facts because journalism has become now more about virtue-signalling to your fellow reporters than telling the truth about what's actually happening.
dave rubin
Right, so I got into a big fight with a BuzzFeed guy this week because they wrote a piece about the regressive left and claimed... Dear sweet Joe Bernstein.
Oh right, you fought with this guy too, right?
milo yiannopolous
I have a soft spot for Joe Bernstein.
dave rubin
So I don't even want to give him any extra cred, right?
We don't have to waste any... You didn't even name him.
milo yiannopolous
This is what the left does, you see.
I'm doing a Voldemort thing here?
This is what the left does, Durango.
dave rubin
Alright, so you want to name him... No, somebody's wrong.
milo yiannopolous
Talk about it.
Shine the light on him.
Your natural progressive tendencies just slipped out.
unidentified
Alright, so this guy... You want to put him under the carpet, you want to censor him.
milo yiannopolous
Why are you censoring Joe Bernstein?
Joe Bernstein from BuzzFeed.
Joe Bernstein.
dave rubin
There you go.
milo yiannopolous
I want the full light of scrutiny on everyone I disagree with so that other people can see they're wrong too.
dave rubin
So this guy basically wrote a piece on BuzzFeed this week.
milo yiannopolous
Joel Bernstein wrote a piece on BuzzFeed this week.
dave rubin
You once called me a cultural librarian, not a cultural libertarian.
Yes, I did, because you're a pussy.
I'm just not that angry.
unidentified
I'm not.
milo yiannopolous
Did you like that coinage?
Because I'm a cultural libertarian and because he's never got the balls to say what he really means.
unidentified
It's not about balls.
milo yiannopolous
I called him a cultural librarian.
I thought it was great.
Yeah, well you just went straight back to the fucking reference section.
dave rubin
All right, so Joe Bernstein wrote a piece on BuzzFeed.com basically saying that, you know, Majid Nawaz and Sam Harris and a few others, Bill Maher, you know, created this regressive left, but really what the regressive left thing is about is about alt-right hate, and those are the people that have made it a thing.
Where I know, and every instance of it on Twitter and everywhere else, is because of the few people that are left on the left, like myself, who have tried to make it into something.
Now again, that sounds like insider baseball stuff, but it gets to your point.
milo yiannopolous
No, no, no, he's wrong about that, but he wrote a piece about me that was wrong too.
What I did, you know, don't mention his name, what I did instead was I challenged him to debate me.
I said, debate me.
I'll give you $5,000, rock up, one hour, debate me.
You're wrong.
Prove your case.
Scurried into a hole.
dave rubin
Silence.
milo yiannopolous
Scurried into a hole.
It actually went up to 6,500.
Now, to be fair to Joe Bernstein of BuzzFeed, Joe Bernstein of BuzzFeed.
dave rubin
It's at Bernstein on Twitter.
There you go, OK?
See, I tossed it.
milo yiannopolous
There we go, see?
To be fair to him, since then, we've worked together.
And, you know, on PCS, he's broken some news for me.
And he's been very fair and very reasonable.
But he was wrong about that and refused to debate because he knew he couldn't defend his arguments.
The same thing, I think, applies with you, too.
I don't think he would be able to defend his position on that piece, which was obviously garbage.
dave rubin
Well, I tweeted at him.
They all got hundreds and thousands of responses to him, and he ignored all of it, of course.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, and I don't think he'd show up to debate you either, but you should certainly... If you'll lend me the five... Well, I won't need it, because I'd win the debate, so...
No, you can't have any money.
But it goes to the... I feel like Shapiro now.
Why do you always talk about money with your guests?
Was it on your show that you asked him how much he was worth, how much he earned, or something like that?
dave rubin
Well, I wanted him as a one percenter to... To tell people how much he earned.
I didn't want a number.
I said, I don't... Did he give you a number?
milo yiannopolous
I can't remember.
dave rubin
He didn't, but he said he's in the over 400k, I guess, situation.
milo yiannopolous
So what?
Who isn't?
Go ahead.
dave rubin
Really?
milo yiannopolous
I should write to Larry.
dave rubin
I know, I've got to talk to Larry King, I'll make a note of that.
All right, so all of this stuff, so Trump, you're laying out a decent case of putting all this stuff together, but let's talk quickly about the pushback from the establishment, because I think that's an under-reported piece about this, that the establishment has tried very hard to push back on this, and they're rolling out Mitt Romney, who lost!
Yeah, incredibly dumb.
time is supposed to be the same.
milo yiannopolous
Incredibly dumb.
dave rubin
You roll out, you know, Lindsey Graham goes from failed candidate, he endorses another
failed candidate, another.
Like, they just roll out the same guys.
And then if you watch the debates, and I've watched 90% of them, Trump systematically,
whether you agree with him or not, systematically destroys these people.
I mean, he embarrassed George, Jeb Bush.
milo yiannopolous
I mean, actually, actually, it's worse than that.
He unsystematically destroys these people.
I mean, he seems to have no particularly consistent approach to destroying them.
He just rocks up, cracks a few jokes and tells it how it is.
It's actually unsystematic, which is even more of an indictment on the establishment.
How dumb they are.
How stupid they are.
They think we're all so... They think we're idiots.
I think it really is.
dave rubin
So do you think if the establishment had found someone that basically knew who he was, had decent conservative principles, so I guess the closest to that could have possibly been Jeb, but the Bush name was so damaging, and he was also a terrible candidate.
milo yiannopolous
No, he's a classic cuck, as we say on the internet.
dave rubin
So cuck, why don't you define cuck, because I see this popping up all over the place.
milo yiannopolous
Well, so, I like this word, and all the rest of the conservative media don't, because they know it describes them.
And it is... Well, so, I know that you probably don't watch any pornography anymore, because since you've been with your partner for so long... I don't want to get into my personal life.
You probably barely have sex anymore.
It's not important here.
More like a lesbian.
unidentified
Go ahead.
milo yiannopolous
Just sexless.
unidentified
Sexless.
dave rubin
I'm asking you about... Well, I'm about to talk about porn.
milo yiannopolous
That's what I'm asking.
So, if you were a porn viewer... I'm not particularly a porn viewer, but if you were a porn viewer... He didn't like that, did he?
If you were a... I'm sure to double down on that one.
If you were a porn viewer, you may be familiar with the genre of porn in which, sort of, white husband watches his wife get rammed by a large black man.
Now, it's not always a large black man, it's sometimes others, whatever, and this is cucking, this is cuckoldry, you know, from Shakespeare, and I think Chaucer too, wherein it wasn't anything to do with race.
I don't think it's specifically to do with race, it's just sort of become a bit of a porn journal as well.
Anyway, the idea is it's people who have sold out and are enjoying watching their wife, their country, the people that they're supposed to look after, whether it's readers in the case of journalists or it's It's a metaphor, you know?
And it's a perfectly good and perfectly fun, vibrant sort of metaphor.
I quite like it, and I use it myself.
I think it's fun and it's very vivid.
Of course, conservatives now, the conservative establishment, which has basically gone along with all of the tenets of the left and now looks to the left for approval, You know, is it okay?
Can I say this?
Is this racist?
Is this sexist?
The right-wing establishment is so terrified of being seen as racist that they sort of distance themselves from this word in case there are any sort of racial connotations whatsoever.
You know, oh no, we can't go... Anyway.
Jeb is a perfect example of this.
He's somebody who is weak.
There's no sense with Jeb Bush.
There was never any sense.
And I feel a bit sorry he's gone now, because he was a nice guy.
But there's no sense he would ever stick up for his country.
And the one thing you can't say about Trump is that he wouldn't stick up for America.
Now, you may disagree with some of his prescriptions, but he clearly loves the country.
He clearly wants America to be great again.
Now, that's a very provocative slogan.
You know, make America great again.
You know, the again, the again.
dave rubin
Right, it implies that something was lost.
milo yiannopolous
Right.
There's a big and shocking claim in there, one that politicians don't normally make, that the country is not great.
In fact, it's the sort of thing you normally hear from liberals, if we're honest.
Obama clearly doesn't like this country very much.
But you don't normally hear it from conservatives.
There's something very exciting going on with this candidate, something that terrifies the establishment.
What I've realised, which I think is really interesting, is that Trump has illustrated that the concerns of the elites, the concerns of the establishment, the concerns of journalists and politicians and the people who run our lives, are so alien from what ordinary people care about
that they can't even argue against him and it resonates with the public.
I mean, let's take, for example, something that you and I both care about,
the First Amendment, free speech, freedom of the press.
Trump has repeatedly suggested that he would like to, in some way,
curtail the full freedoms of the press. He would like...
dave rubin
Just this week with the Washington Post editorial.
milo yiannopolous
He would like to make it more...
I mean, I think what he's saying is he wants to strengthen defamation law, right?
dave rubin
Bad news, particularly for you, even more than me, right?
milo yiannopolous
Well, is it?
Because I don't lie about people.
I might say funny names sometimes, I might ridicule people, but I don't lie about them like the liberal press does every day.
And the conservative press is just as bad, frankly.
They're all terrible.
I don't libel people.
I don't make up facts about people.
Why would I worry about that?
I mean, let's look at it from an electoral point of view, right?
dave rubin
My head just went through like the list of all my liberal friends that lie constantly publicly and that would suffer from this.
milo yiannopolous
I say the most appalling things about people but they're true and I've never been sued.
I, Miley Yiannopoulos, have never been sued.
I mean you would imagine I'd be in court every week.
No, I don't get sued.
dave rubin
Also because there's a difference between satire and, you know, joking.
milo yiannopolous
No, but I get my facts right.
You know, there are people who are in court every week and it's gawker, you know, because they are so completely unethical.
dave rubin
So that's why the right felt that the gawker thing with Hogan, I know we're jumping all over the place.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, we enjoyed that.
dave rubin
The right really loved it.
But I saw it as a huge victory too because places like gawker that are literally trying to destroy lives, it's enough.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, and you know, they out private citizens.
Anyway, look, that'll probably get overturned on appeal, and it's probably better that we don't have an anti-free speech precedent of quite that nature, because who knows what kinds of sex tapes might be in the public interest in the future.
Two things is, you know, Pinellas County, Florida juries don't set legal precedent, and it's going to get overturned on appeal.
dave rubin
Right, so it'll be appealed.
milo yiannopolous
Anyway, on the Trump thing, when he says that the press are the bad guys, Most people agree with him.
And this is what the press doesn't understand.
Because they genuinely believe that they are like some sort of like true, you know, warriors for truth and justice.
They're not.
They're the bad guys.
The media in this country, there's been a systemic industry-wide failure to tell the truth in this country.
Well, that's the normal situation under which the government steps in.
That's what we do when it's oil.
That's what we do when it's some other kind of industry.
When there is a system-wide failure in an industry, banking for instance, the government steps in.
And, you know, there's no reason why the First Amendment should insulate you from the consequences
of your actions if you go out and deliberately, mendaciously, knowingly lie about people.
And the key word is knowingly.
If you knowingly...
Now, the libel standard in this country...
dave rubin
Slippery slope, though, right?
milo yiannopolous
Well, I would say that...
dave rubin
This is a guy who gets offended by Megyn Kelly every other day.
God only knows what he would want to do to her.
milo yiannopolous
I think she's a hell of a lot more triggered by him than he is by her.
dave rubin
Well, that may be, but he's on his way to becoming the most powerful man on earth, and
she's just a reporter.
So I get what you're saying, that if she's telling the truth, then fine, but what I would say is... If she's telling the truth, then she's got nothing to worry about.
It's a slippery thing when you have the most offended... You know, this guy who loves giving offence, but at the same time he's incredibly thin-skinned... I don't think he's... He's putting in libel laws... He's not thin-skinned.
I know the President can't do that in...
milo yiannopolous
He's not thin-skinned at all.
He is playing a very smart game where he is illustrating the absurdities of, you know, of offense-taking and offense culture.
The thing is, you've got to understand about Trump, he didn't become a billionaire by accident.
He's one of the smartest people in the country, you know.
He's so clever.
Everything he does is calculated.
Everything he does is designed to create a particular effect, designed to reach a certain goal.
dave rubin
So he even uses bankruptcy to his advantage, I guess would prove that.
milo yiannopolous
Well, who wouldn't?
I mean, you know, liberals love to do this bullshit.
Of course he did.
He was a businessman.
Of course he donated to Hillary.
So would I if I was running a business and there was a strategic advantage.
Of course I'd go to her wedding.
I'd have her at my wedding or whatever.
dave rubin
That probably was his best moment in the first debate when he admitted.
milo yiannopolous
Who cares?
Of course you would.
It's so dumb to suggest otherwise.
The reason it offends people so much or the reason it surprised people so much is most politicians have never done anything other than politics.
So if they cozy up to a liberal, it looks like treachery, or it looks like inconsistency, it looks like ideological kind of tomfoolery.
Well, Trump has never been in that position.
He was a businessman, of course he did these things.
But I want to just finish on the press thing.
When Trump says the press are the bad guys, and he does it in his speeches all the time, he gets some of the biggest cheers of any of his stuff, right?
When he says, you know, the press will never cover you, the press will never turn around and show these huge crowds, all they'll do is if there's a protest, they'll go down there.
unidentified
There's a protest, they go, these guys are losers, they're losers.
milo yiannopolous
They get some of the big, those lines get some of the biggest applauses.
The country hates the press.
And when the press is like pearl clutching about, you know, Oh, First Amendment, our freedom.
Well, you misused those freedoms.
You abused those freedoms.
You started lying about men, lying about race, lying about immigration, lying about Islam, lying about About everything that matters.
The press has lied systematically to everyone about everything, every day, all the time, for decades.
It has abused its privileges.
And, you know, frankly, I'm with Trump and with most Americans.
The press is part of the problem.
And for them to, you know, stop pool-clutching about the First Amendment, well, you know what?
Tough.
You abused this for decades.
dave rubin
OK, so when you take the power that the press has, a lot of power, You take the power that the establishment has on both sides, a lot of power, Democrats, Republicans, right?
You add all that up and now we still don't have an election until November, right?
We're in the end of March here.
Can this thing go forward without getting much more violent?
That's sort of where I see this all going.
And by the way, I'll be very clear and say that I don't know which way the violence is going to come from.
I'm not going to say this is going to happen.
milo yiannopolous
I think we all know which way the violence is going to come from.
So, I mean, I don't think you should be such a weasel.
I think you should say what you think.
And I think you probably agree with me that the violence is going to come from the left.
Just say it.
Obviously, the violence is going to come from the left.
It's going to come from Black Lives Matter.
It's going to come from people protesting Trump.
It's not going to come from Trump protesters.
Well, look, in the beginning of the show— Just because his chief of staff can be a bit grabby—well, of course he is.
Trump is at so much risk of being shot, unlike anybody else.
If there's somebody that's going to get assassinated in this country, it's Trump.
Is it any wonder the people close to him are a little bit cautious?
I don't want to get too much into that, because it involves other people I used to work with.
If there's going to be violence on the streets, it is not going to come from Trump's streets.
unidentified
Right.
dave rubin
It'll be the Bernie people.
I get that.
And that's ironic.
You know, I tweeted the other day, I like Bernie more than I like his supporters, which is really how I feel.
Because yes, I do agree.
If he goes out, there will have been... Yeah, I know.
Right.
But as a human, I think he's a decent human being, whether I agree with his policies or not.
milo yiannopolous
Why?
Somebody who makes excuses for and poses up to some of the worst regimes in the world.
Somebody who wants to institute socialism, which will make poor people poorer.
Somebody who believes in the lies that feminist activists tell about men.
dave rubin
We don't have to make this about him now.
milo yiannopolous
No, no, no.
Don't just throw this stuff out.
Do you really mean that?
Do you mean that?
You think he's a nice person?
dave rubin
Why do you think he's a nice person?
milo yiannopolous
Everything he believes can make society more hateful and more unequal.
Why do you say he's a nice person?
dave rubin
He's guided in what he thinks the solutions are.
milo yiannopolous
So you don't believe in any of his policies, but you think he's a nice person?
dave rubin
I think sometimes you can be a decent person and be divided in policies.
milo yiannopolous
Well, you're a decent person and you're wrong about lots of things.
dave rubin
Wait, hold on.
milo yiannopolous
Why do you think he's a nice person?
dave rubin
I do agree that the violence will come from the left.
milo yiannopolous
Why do we automatically assume that just because somebody's old and left-wing that they're nice?
We don't do that with right-wingers.
Why do we automatically assume just because he's old and doddery and he's got white hair and he sounds like a crazy old lunatic, oh, he must be a nice guy.
Really?
Is he a nice guy?
No, he wants socialism in America.
There's poisonous, ugly, oppressive political philosophy that has made people suffer everywhere it has ever been tried.
Everywhere socialism has been implemented, it has made people suffer.
Why do people think Bernie Sanders is nice?
dave rubin
I don't get it.
milo yiannopolous
Why?
What has he ever done to indicate that he's a decent, nice person?
I've never seen anything.
dave rubin
Underpinnings of the ideas that he talks about.
No, no, no.
of trying to make things more equal and trying to change the system which is the exact same
milo yiannopolous
stuff that's lauding Trump.
The feeling stuff in other words.
dave rubin
No, no, no, but that's the exact...
You like the feeling stuff.
Wait, but you're telling me that the Trump revolution is a cultural revolution that has
a little something to do with a feeling, right?
But I don't want to get totally sidetracked on that.
It's not.
milo yiannopolous
It's not about feelings.
dave rubin
Well, it has something to do with feelings.
You're telling me all these people, and I'm agreeing with you on that.
milo yiannopolous
No, cultural libertarianism is not about feelings.
Cultural libertarianism is a response to feelings over facts.
In fact, the defining characteristic of cultural libertarianism is rigorous adherence to evidence-based policymaking and evidence-based beliefs, and a rigorous insistence on classical liberalism.
It's got very little to do with feelings.
It's got a lot to do with fun, because it's often dressed up in a mischievous package.
But cultural libertarianism is a reaction against the feelings-based arguments of the left.
The feelings-based arguments of the left as perfectly identified by Bernie Sanders.
Bernie Sanders is the apotheosis of everything you hate.
But you still feel the need to call him a nice guy because he's old.
dave rubin
All right, so without getting into a Bernie offshoot here, we're probably a little late for that.
I will grant you that if Bernie goes down and the narrative just continues, yes, it will be his people, I think, that will be violent, right?
Now, the media then will try to blame it on the Trump people.
And that doesn't mean that there are no Trump people that are violent.
milo yiannopolous
Even conservatives are blaming it on Trump.
I mean, what is it, Cruz goes on TV after whatever saying Trump is responsible for the violence?
Are they insane?
Do they not realize why people are voting for this guy?
They're voting for this guy because you lie like that.
It's astonishing.
dave rubin
Okay, so at the top of the show what I mentioned was that just this week Trump was giving a speech in Arizona and these protesters blocked the road.
These are not people.
They think they're doing something good or they're doing something to stop Trump, but all they're doing is... Some of them.
milo yiannopolous
The rest are just taking a paycheck.
dave rubin
Whatever it is.
But they think that they're stopping Trump somehow or stopping him from being heard or going to stop his movement, but I think all they're doing is strengthening him Yes, they are.
Because they need to have the battle of ideas, because then people turn on the TV.
Look what these people are doing.
milo yiannopolous
The more these guys protest, Daddy, the more they show up and they're violent.
It's just like my talk to colleges, you know.
These feminists smear blood on themselves.
dave rubin
I saw the video.
milo yiannopolous
And block all the stuff.
Everybody saw the video.
You know, everybody saw it and everybody thought the same thing.
God, Milo must have a point.
That's what they thought.
And everybody thinks the same thing.
When, you know, when these protesters show up for Trump, and they are the hateful, angry, violent, divisive people, and everybody there for Trump is, like, laughing.
They're all in their hats, making a great again.
dave rubin
But it's not everybody.
You'll grant me that, right?
It's not everybody.
I saw a guy who was screaming at some people, go back to Auschwitz.
You see some people go back to Africa.
milo yiannopolous
I'm sure there are some supporters of Trump who are distasteful people, like there are supporters of Hillary.
outside. This is not, you know, this is not...
dave rubin
Yeah, I'm just saying it's not everybody. I'm not giving the media any great leash here.
milo yiannopolous
No, fine. Well, I mean, OK, I'm sure there are some supporters of Trump who are, you
know, who are distasteful people, like there are supporters of Hillary.
Sure.
I think pretty much anyone who supports Hillary at this point is distasteful. You know, I
think pretty much anyone who supports Sanders just needs to read a book, you know, needs
to be educated, needs to reach puberty. I don't know.
But the thing is about Trump supporters, in my experience, the vast majority of them, whether they fall into, you know, the various buckets of Trump supporter, you know, whether it's the huge support he has in the black community for all sorts of obvious reasons, because he's a very aspirational You know, American Dream kind of candidate.
My colleague at Breitbart, Sunny Johnson, you know, she says, she said, I love him.
I love him because when I see Trump and he's got his name on the building and he's got a name on a plane, I want that.
You know, I want that.
dave rubin
There's like a bling element to it.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, it's not, well, it's not just that.
Some people are offended by that kind of generalization, but... Oh, five there.
dave rubin
I said something that I thought you'd be, oh my God, he said bling and now no.
unidentified
Oh, that was a bit much out there.
milo yiannopolous
No, I mean, maybe that's why they like me.
No, what I mean is that he's a very classic aspirational candidate for black Americans.
Also loved by the gay community.
Huge gay icon.
There's a piece coming out in Mike, I think, and another in Vice soon.
I've given interviews for both of these places on why so many gay people love Trump.
I think it's obvious.
But the two big groups, which are kind of like well-educated, what I call Generation Trump, the internet trolley, some alt-righty, cultural libertarian sort of Trump supporters, who by and large are the best people in the world.
They're so funny and interesting and smart and brilliant and I love them.
And the other group, which are also some of the best people in the world, the white working class people.
dave rubin
Yeah, the white working class.
milo yiannopolous
You know, who are rightly worried about the direction the country is taking.
dave rubin
The company.
See, soon it'll be a company.
That was the Freudian slip I was looking for the entire time.
milo yiannopolous
Oh, you got me.
It took an hour, but you got me.
dave rubin
See, fascism comes with a smile.
And bleach blonde hair.
unidentified
Yeah, I'm going to start calling it The Firm.
milo yiannopolous
We've got to fix the firm.
unidentified
Basically, you're saying that these two groups... The Queen calls the Royal Family the firm, I think, in England.
dave rubin
Does she?
So these two groups coming together, it will just have... Look, I feel this thing happening.
milo yiannopolous
They're great, joyful, wonderful people, and I love them.
Both of these groups are my natural constituency.
Both of these groups are my readers and my viewers.
Both of these groups, I think, hold With them united under Daddy, the promise of a better America.
I mean, so I say that with no hint of exaggeration.
I think these, you know, these groups... Think about the Gamergate, you know, thing, when video game players, the least likely kind of group in the world, to rise up and beat the feminists.
And they did beat the feminists, and they were like, really?
These, like, you know, and everyone was thinking these, you know, parents basement guys and video gamers, really?
And they won!
They did what nobody, none of the rest of us had done.
dave rubin
They woke this thing up.
I did not know that this was happening.
milo yiannopolous
Gamergate was a direct sort of tributary.
Is that what you call it when the river comes?
Yeah.
Into Generation Trump.
And they woke people up to the fact that if you turn around as a progressive left and you say, I'm not sexist, go fuck yourself, nothing bad happens.
And in fact, other people around you start to notice, and they start to do it too.
And these two groups together, white working class, ordinary people who are seeing wages depressed and worried about where their country is going, And a sort of highly educated college student and into their up to about 35 kind of cross, like, Gen X, millennial, borderline people our age who are sick of having been told what to do for 10 years by the regressive left.
This union of people, what I call Generation Trump, is the most exciting cultural force there has been in this country for decades.
And it's a group of people that I'm very proud to be part of and to have a role in because I think they're great.
I think many of these people, whether it's the gamers in that top end, or the, you know, people who just drive trucks for a living, whatever, these are some of the people who have been lied to and lied about the most in American society for decades, and they're sick of it, and they're right to be sick of it.
And if they can drive into the White House a candidate like Trump, who is going to, you know, build a wall, he's going to fix the trade, he's going to do these things, and then if he doesn't do too much else, that's not such a disaster.
A candidate like Trump, who is going to give the present establishment, journalists and politicians alike, the most colossal bloody nose, and they deserve it, they have it coming, you know, they really deserve this, then I am fully behind it.
dave rubin
Yeah.
And ironically, I think, at that point, you could make a strong case that if Bernie does not get the Democratic nomination, that he should actually, a good portion of his people, should actually go to Trump.
Because whether you agree with Bernie or not, you absolutely don't.
milo yiannopolous
I have no doubt that they will.
Hillary's obviously going to get the nomination.
But the good thing about Trump, well, good thing, one of the things about Sanders and Trump supporters is they're relatively politically promiscuous.
What they want is to hurt the bad guys.
And the bad guys now are the New York Times, you know, the political class, the banks, whatever, you know, all
these people that, you know, are controlling the rest of us and not in our own, not in
our interests.
I think many of them will come over and I think you'll be surprised just how many come over
because their concerns aren't that different.
And when you look at, if you look at like the Sanders rallies and look at the Trump rallies,
there's a similar sort of, there's a sort of fun, young, exciting kind of atmosphere in both the crowds.
They have a very similar feel to them.
The atmosphere at those events is, in many ways, very similar.
And I think people are more interested in the cultural ties across political lines these days than they are with Republican and Democrat labels.
dave rubin
Right, so those cultural ties, that's really what brought us together.
So I guess to wrap all this thing up, is that the left, that portion of the left that you would argue is probably 90% of the left, if not 100%, plus me and one other guy.
milo yiannopolous
You'll leave.
unidentified
You'll be a libertarian before long.
dave rubin
Yeah, well, at this point I would basically say I'm a classic liberal to libertarian, somewhere in there.
Which actually, believe it or not, people don't like to hear it, but it's actually on the conservative side.
unidentified
You have no choice.
milo yiannopolous
I mean, look, if the liberal is watching this, you did this to him.
I mean, you know, you forced him in.
Leftist.
You forced this perfectly nice, you know, domesticated liberal gay man into talking about free speech on the internet, you know?
dave rubin
Crazy what happened here, but if they did something good between the regressive left and the authoritarians that, between the power structure, the media, the politicians, all that, they did wake this thing up.
And that's why me and you can sit here and do this and still have a drink after and agree and disagree and whatever.
And you did a good sell job.
You didn't bring me all the way, but you, but you lay out an interesting case and that's what I'm interested in hearing, you know?
And so they did do something because they All of the people that are in this mix now, that we talk about all the time, you know, from Rogan and Christina Hoff Sommers and, you know, Sam Harris and Majid, and all of these people all over the map have woken up.
So that, to me, is the takeaway that I can feel good about with this, regardless of who becomes president, regardless of the political end of this, is that we're here and we're doing this.
And that's what the authoritarians on either side fear the most.
milo yiannopolous
Correct.
And I think it's inexorable.
I think it is irresistible.
If you look at the 1990s, the emergence of political correctness in the 1990s, which was beaten back very successfully by a coalition like us.
Well, we're the ones doing it now.
And although in the 90s these people, as Christina likes to say, got the assistant professorships and stayed in tenure in the universities and all the rest of it, Had to go away from the media, but never really went away.
They just sort of consolidated their power and returned as social justice warriors.
This time there's so much more on the line for them.
Because if they break this time, they are breaking, they are losing, with the full support of politicians, the media and academia.
And if people rise up now and say this social justice thing, this language policing, this political correctness, safe spaces, trigger warnings, microaggressions, this stuff is horseshit.
And if enough people smash its stranglehold on the public square, it will never recover.
It will never come back like this again.
Because it will lose at the height of its powers.
It will lose in its strongest possible form.
It will lose, as we say on the internet, in its final form.
Social justice cannot get any stronger than it is now.
It is at the peak of its powers.
And it's losing.
And it's losing because people want freedom.
They want to be able to do, say, think, be, play and read anything.
And they have the faith in themselves and in other people that they are able to make the best judgments for themselves on what they believe in.
They don't need to be told how to speak.
They don't need to be told which books to read.
They don't need to be told which video games are dangerous.
They don't need to be told any of these things.
They don't need to be instructed and lectured to by politicians.
They don't need to be badgered and hectored by feminists.
And they don't need to be lied to by journalists.
And people are sick of it.
And they are sick of the entire mendacious edifice.
And this is what is happening so wonderfully right now with people like us and all the other conversations that are happening in the cultural libertarian movement and in what I call Generation Trump and Daddy and all this kind of stuff.
The fun, mischievous, troll-y element on the internet.
What is behind all of this, the heart of all of this, is that rejection, that fundamental rejection of the idea that somebody else knows better than I do how I should live my life.
dave rubin
Man, you know how to give a closing argument.
milo yiannopolous
That was really good, right?
dave rubin
No cue cards over there at all.
milo yiannopolous
In the hands of professionals here.
dave rubin
For the record, I did not look at these once.
I had a lot of questions for you, but I think we did a fine job here.
So, of course, I want to thank Miley Yiannopoulos for joining me.
milo yiannopolous
Thank you.
dave rubin
You guys can check out all his stuff at Breitbart.com.
Follow him on Twitter.
It's at Nero.
There are roughly... How many copies of you do you think there are?
milo yiannopolous
Well, I think I'm the most imitated person on the internet.
Yeah, they created a monster.
dave rubin
They created a gremlin in water monster with you.
milo yiannopolous
Yeah, don't feed him after midnight.
I don't know, but if you look, N-E-R-O, like the Emperor, who was awesome, except for the Christian burning.
Everything else was great.
Well, nobody's perfect.
Nobody's perfect.
When he was good, you know, he was, he was, I mean, he was an egotist, fine, I'll take that.
You know, he was self-involved, it was fine, he spent too much money on himself, you know, he raised half of Rome.
So he was you!
A gigantic palace called the Domus Aurea, and when he finally moved into the palace, I think it was from Suetonius, I think he said, finally I can start to live as a human being.
He was hated by the elites, the Senate hated him, but loved by the people.
So he was probably the best emperor.
dave rubin
So you want to turn this country into a company, or do you want your palace?
milo yiannopolous
There's nobody who wouldn't want to live in Neuropolis.
dave rubin
There's no blue check, but just take my word for it.
Export Selection