Dave Rubin and Mike Cernovich dissect the fractured American political landscape, arguing that a regressive left utilizing illiberal tactics to silence debate on immigration and extremism has fueled Donald Trump's rise. Cernovich, a Libertarian nationalist, endorses Trump as a necessary "showman" to anchor discourse against identity politics and the dangerous "heckler's veto" of online mobs. They debate rally safety statistics versus media bias in covering violence, noting how cognitive biases drive voters toward simple narratives over facts. Ultimately, the conversation suggests that countercultures fighting over gender and race create a self-censoring environment more perilous than government censorship, challenging traditional views on free speech and political norms. [Automatically generated summary]
All right, so as you guys know, I've spent a lot of time on the Rubin Report talking about the current status of the left.
As I've said many times, I believe the regressive left, the group of people who use illiberal tactics to silence those defending liberal principles, to be the left's version of the Tea Party.
If we don't rein them in now, then the left in America will end up as fractured as the right.
Evidence of the fractured right is everywhere, with basically every mainstream conservative actively trying to stop the party's front runner, Donald Trump.
Has there ever been a time when a frontrunner on either side was so hated by his own party's establishment?
Not that I know of.
And interestingly, this mess is actually of the GOP's own doing.
They didn't see the rise of the Tea Party until it was too late, which set the GOP establishment against their own base.
Ironically, had the Tea Partyers been willing to negotiate with anyone, perhaps the Republican Party would be in a better state than the ideological mess it's in right now.
That didn't happen though, and when you couple a fractured right with the rise of the regressive left, who refuse to talk honestly about issues like Islamic extremism and immigration, we now have the rise of Donald Trump.
Before I continue, let me say a couple positive things about Donald Trump, believe it or not.
I probably should have issued a trigger warning there, but get in your safe space, here we go.
Alright, he has absolutely exposed our robotic politicians who are bought and sold by campaign contributors openly mocking Hillary Clinton for showing up to his wedding because he gave her a donation.
In many ways his message of a broken system corrupted by money is exactly the same thing that Bernie Sanders is saying.
Trump has also talked about America's awful trade deals with China and Mexico, and promised to negotiate better ones.
And actually there's every reason to believe that he would be good at this.
After all, making deals is what he has built his empire on.
People actually attack Trump for having his Trump brand ties made in Mexico, but that actually proves his point about our bad trade deals.
He's making things to sell where cost is cheap and profit will be maximum.
As an American businessman, he's doing what's best for his business by making ties in Mexico.
It's not the fault of the businessman who uses the system, that's the fault of the politicians who set up the bad deals which enable it.
Trump has also brought the issue of immigration to the front and center of the debate.
He says he'll build a wall and have Mexico pay for it.
While I think that Mexico actually may end up building the wall and paying for it to keep Americans out if he becomes president, he makes a serious populist point with the wall.
Trump always says we either have a country or we don't.
A wall in and of itself isn't racist.
It may not be wise, and it may not address the real problems, but when he talks in simple language like that, he scores points with many voters.
Having a secure border shouldn't be a partisan issue, but because of our politically correct climate, it's become one.
You can be for better border security and still not be a bigot.
That shouldn't be too hard to understand.
Finally, he has also scored points with many people when talking about the spread of Islamic extremism.
While Trump never takes the time to make the distinction between Islamic extremism and the average Muslim person, he scores points by even talking about Islamic extremism in the first place because the left in this country refuses to do so.
This failure on the left to tackle the topic of Islamic extremism honestly by linking doctrine with action actually helps feed those like Trump who come in with easy answers with no nuance or real understanding.
Trump sees an opening for an easy answer here like banning all Muslims from entry to the country and he runs with it.
Turn on any cable news channel to see the list of bad things about Donald Trump.
We've heard them all before, so I'm actually going to take a different road here.
Let's talk about what the real threat of a Donald Trump presidency is.
Donald Trump is a businessman making business decisions, but he's also a reality TV host winning the world's biggest reality TV show.
Over the course of his presidential campaign, Trump has made it clear that he will say anything, literally anything, just to be elected.
He uses the media's need for clicks and views to fuel his rise, knowing full well the more outlandish his statements are and the more clownish he acts, the more free TV time he's going to get.
He has mastered the age-old adage, any publicity is good publicity.
People like Trump for his lack of political correctness, but it's not what he says that they're responding to, it's just that he's saying nothing and everything at the same time without sounding like a career politician.
Is he really against gay marriage now, even though he used to be for it?
Is he really against abortion now, even though he used to be pro-choice?
I have no idea what's in his heart, but I do know what's in his head.
He wants to be the contestant who doesn't get fired on the season finale.
Many people in this country want to feel like America is winning again, and Trump has wisely used this notion to fuel his campaign.
But the question is, what does electing Trump actually mean?
If he wins, does anyone think he'll actually adhere to the Constitution?
Will he care about due process or respect the three branches of government?
Will he sue reporters who investigate the White House?
Will we get into a war over a mistaken retweet?
His gruff language and loose use of facts are only the micro problem here.
The macro problem is that nobody really knows what this guy stands for other than winning.
And that's the real risk of a Trump presidency.
We have no idea what the country will look like after we elect someone who cares more about his own rules than the law of the land.
You know, he says Starbucks will put Merry Christmas back on cups when he's president.
Does he know that the president doesn't get to decide what a private company does with their products?
As a businessman, yeah, he does know.
But as a presidential candidate, he doesn't care.
If winning at all costs for a temporary feel-good moment is good enough for you, then by all means, you should vote for Donald Trump.
But don't be fooled.
You're being sold a bill of goods by someone who only cares about making the deal.
When the product sucks, don't expect to get a refund.
My guest this week is the author of Guerrilla Mindset, a lawyer, a tweeter, and a free speech activist, Mike Cernovich.
So, let's start off, just so, for the people that don't know you, tell me a little bit about your history, where you come from, and what got you to write the book, and then we'll dive into that.
Right, and that's probably why I hate bullies so much now.
You realize these people are trying to ruin lives and it's a bad vibe.
When you're a kid now, I don't really like calling adults being bullied.
Okay, you're an adult.
You should know how to, or you're being online bullied.
Okay, you should learn how to kind of chill out a little bit.
But I don't like a lot of the online bullying stuff that goes on in terms of, oh, you tweeted something wrong.
Let's ruin this guy's life.
Let's get him fired.
In many ways, let's get a guy fired over a tweet is probably worse than throwing a kid in a locker room because that guy has a family, has his livelihood.
Or what happened with, say, Justine Sacco.
You know, you can't find a job and you're like, well, maybe that is even a little bit worse than what happens.
What happened, probably one of her coworkers saw it and wanted to do a little backstabbing.
It was somebody made personal drama, international news.
Everybody went after her.
And it touches on so many themes where, well, I mean, that's a woman.
She was getting rape threats.
Are the people, the social justice warriors, the activists, If you're leading a sort of hate mob on a woman who gets rape threats, well, wait, isn't that what you say I do?
Yeah, you define within certain confines your own reality.
You're Dave Rubin.
I'm Mike Cernovich.
Your life is your life.
My life is my life.
But we're going to have different experiences in terms of how you live on a day-to-day basis.
But we got the same drama.
We're pissed off at people.
We don't feel like we got recognition.
We wonder if we're going to lose our jobs.
How am I going to make money doing this?
What if I ask that girl or guy out on a date?
What if they think I'm dumb?
I'm afraid to go on TV because people think I look stupid, I sound funny, what if I say the wrong thing?
We all got the same problems.
You know, how am I going to pay my bills?
So, ultimately you want to control your thoughts, you want to control your emotions, learn how to not lose it, essentially.
And the reason I wrote it is because I went through a lot of drama You know, you grew up poor, now you're in the big city, you've got to figure it out.
You see this in a lot of writing, actually, where people tend to be ashamed of their upbringing.
So, instead of saying, hey, I grew up a poor kid in a small town, but hey, here I am now, you want to say, yeah, I hate rednecks, because you want to get away from that, right?
So you kind of overreact.
Well, why is that?
Well, it's because your mindset, it's the way you're framing your background.
So what we tend to do is we think, well, I grew up this poor, dumb kid.
What will I ever do with my life?
But you can just say, well, I mean, I grew up a poor, dumb kid.
I'm here.
I made it somehow.
I've learned and I've grown.
And I start to take these background experiences and create a new future out of those.
Yeah, so that concept is very much in line with the online culture, and I know you're a big part of this because I see you fighting with people online, you're calling people out, people are attacking you, I mean you're really in it, in the sort of like back and forth piece of it.
So I guess the way you deal with that is that you just don't take any of it too personally, right?
You can't take him personally and you always have to, you always got to take a negative, reframe it as a positive.
It sounds cliche, but you could say, oh my God, I have all these people saying mean things about me.
Or you could just say, wow, this is great.
How the hell do these idiots that I've never heard of hear about me?
Well, I must be doing something right.
I must be making impact.
So you can let criticism define you.
Madonna said this once, actually.
She goes, if I go into a room and there are 100 people and 99 people like me, and one person doesn't, that one person who doesn't like me, that's what sticks with me.
And we tend to be hardwired as human beings to let criticism bother us.
Which makes sense, because if we're living in a small tribe, You know, 150 people there.
If five guys don't like you, you know, they might take you out on a hunting trip and kill you, right?
I mean, that always reminds me of a thing from Howard Stern's book and in the movie when they're talking about the executives are like, you know, the people that like you watch you for four minutes and the people that hate you listen to you for three hours or something.
So the interesting thing, and then we'll get back to Trump, with the trans situation is that But, you know, Caitlyn Jenner now, people are turning, the left is turning on her now because she said that she's supporting Ted Cruz.
And I watched, I've never watched any of that show, but I did watch the little five minute part where she was sort of defending why she's a Republican and, you know, they're debating and the people, you know, she's arguing with these housewives or whatever these people are that have no idea what they're talking about.
But I've seen now people on the left turning on her because she has a different political view.
So two months ago she was a hero to them.
Right.
Think differently politically, so now you're evil.
And Caitlin's position was, hey, we're $7 trillion in debt.
Yeah, we should be able to use the same restrooms, but come on.
If the country falls, everybody's gone.
You know, so it isn't even that the views are wrong.
The views are just, hey, I'm focused on bigger issues.
You know, what happens to a country if our economy collapses?
Well, you're going to have a lot bigger worries than, can you use a unisex bathroom?
But people, you know, they don't want to see it.
So what happens now is you get fixated on this marginal issue, this issue that only affects a real small group of people, and then you're not allowed to focus on any other issues or else you're evil.
So yeah, Caitlyn would say, well, I support Ted Cruz.
Ted Cruz is wrong about this, but hey, we got really bigger issues, and that makes you a bad person.
Right, so for the person that loves identity politics, this is like a real disconnect for them, right?
Because they're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, you're trans, so the thing that you're supposed to care about most is trans, and here you have someone saying, Well, actually, I care more about the economy, or security, or whatever it is.
And identity politics, as I always say, whittles us down to the point where if you jump out of that little box, people start freaking out.
Right, and it's almost as if all of those groups that you just cited have people within them who think different things than the bigger group.
I don't know why that's such a revolutionary thought, but it seems to be for a lot of people.
So wait, we started here with Trump.
I don't know how we got over there.
So okay, so you take all of this social justice stuff and this fear of saying what you think and all that, and that basically has led us to Trump, right?
Okay, so I'm with you on that portion of that piece of Trump.
I understand, I hate political correctness, the whole show has been devoted to fighting it, so I understand that portion of it with Trump, but I think you just said something interesting.
He'll say anything.
And that's where I see the biggest problem.
This guy, people keep saying, oh, I like him because he'll say anything, but he's also saying nothing at the same time.
He's taken every position on everything.
You watch him in the debates.
He stands now for things he used to be against.
In many ways, he's actually for big government.
He's certainly not a conservative, all those things.
So is that enough for you?
That's the part that I just don't understand.
I get people are on it on the emotional level, But is that, in and of itself, enough for you to vote for somebody and be like, let this guy be the president?
Right, but do you think that the ends justify the means?
I guess that's where I'm struggling with this situation with him, because I think that ultimately, and this is what I said at the top of the show, if he got in, this is not someone who would respect any law that we have.
I don't think he would accept That the executive branch, that the president is only one third of the government.
I think he would do whatever he wants.
The example I gave is that, you know, because he says anything, he said, well, I'm going to, when I'm president, Starbucks is going to put Merry Christmas back on their coffee cups.
I know, I got you already.
He's just saying something crazy.
But I think that that line of thinking is actually dangerous.
Isn't that what leads us to fascism?
When you have a guy who comes in and says, I'm going to do whatever I want.
So the executive hasn't respected the legislative branch for a long time and what's interesting is that you can go back to before Obama was elected And you can see liberals saying, we have an executive out of control.
And then when Obama's elected, the conservatives at the Cato Institute and everybody are like, Obama's out of control, but they all flip-flopped on the issue.
So again, as a constitutional law scholar, and I actually am a constitutional law scholar, it's all bullshit anyway.
Everybody flip-flops on who now?
Trump, what can he really do, right?
You can't really do that much.
That's the idea that the president is that powerful.
What if Trump does solve the problem with the border?
Which is a problem.
Our social services are way overstressed now.
Anybody who's ever gone to an ER in California, talk to any ER doctor.
It is.
It is a real mess.
So what Trump is doing is he's setting a cultural tone.
He's just saying, OK, we got to figure this stuff out, which which is what we need to do.
OK, adults need to sit down at the table and figure out, OK, we have illegal immigrants.
What are we going to do?
Well, the path that everybody has taken is to say, well, yeah, well, maybe amnesty, maybe, you know, a path to citizenship, maybe this and maybe we'll clear up the border and maybe we'll do this.
Maybe we'll do that.
Well, it's time to actually take an extreme position, because what happens, right?
The Overton, well, you know in negotiation, how much do you want?
Well, I want a billion dollars a year.
You're out of your mind, but now you've anchored, and all this stuff is cognitive bias, persuasion, the anchoring bias, right?
So that's that's fascinating because I see people on the right all the time, say Ben Shapiro, who sat in that chair a couple of weeks ago saying, you know, all the people on the left care about feeling more than fact.
And what you're saying basically is that Trump is using that very tactic and yet he's running on the right.
So he really should be running on the left and then they would all love him because he's giving them feel... if it was just the feel-good stuff that they feel good about.
He's just giving the people on the right something that they feel good about.
If you're gay, you think, well, I'm an adult, I should be able to enter into contracts about my relationship with other consenting adults.
So if I just say, well, I support liberty, so then what you do is you say, well, Ted Cruz doesn't really support my conception of liberty, but it's all bullshit.
So, okay, so let's talk about the alpha part, because I definitely think that's part of it, and he just is up there exerting his alpha maleness, and the rest of these guys simply aren't alpha males.
So you can take a Marco Rubio, who even though I disagree with him on most things, I think he's probably a decent human being, and he's in the right line of work.
He's actually looked kind of human.
Now that he's realized it's over, he's looking kind of human,
as opposed to the robot that we've been seeing up there.
But you look at him, that's certainly not an alpha male.
You look at Ted Cruz, just a creepy car salesman.
The rest of them, Ben Carson, basically asleep.
So is that really part of it?
That we really are just looking for somebody to just get that feeling from us?
Anybody who's ever dated, you know, if you're across from a woman, well, a man, you know, whatever the case is, you know, the person's like this, looking at their phone, that's a vibe, right?
And we go based on vibes, but we as human beings want to believe that we're logical
and that we make conclusions based on what we—we look at the evidence and we have all
this information and stuff.
We don't know—we don't have all the information.
The media lies about things.
The government lies about things.
We have no idea.
The Federal Reserve has never been audited.
We have no idea about anything.
And that's scary.
It's scary to think that I'm just a regular schmuck who knows nothing, has no control, but that's where the guerrilla mindset comes in.
I'm sort of like, so people are always like, oh yeah, you're, you're probably this, you're probably that.
I'm like, man, if you meet, and you know, we have met in real life, I'm pretty like mellow in real life.
Cause I realized like, I don't have fucking control over shit, man.
I have a little bit of control over how I feel and what I think.
That's about it.
The rest of the world is sort of out of my control.
So, we talked about this pre-show, you know, your life is your life.
People think Obama is going to save them or ruin them.
People think that Sanders is going to save them or ruin them.
People think that Hillary is going to ruin their life.
The same with Trump.
Why is Trump going to ruin your life or make your life?
And that isn't even really a healthy way to go about it.
People view him as a savior, though, but back to the original point is that, yeah, he's got that vibe, he's got that swagger, he's got... Watch him work an audience, right?
I always tell people, turn off... He's doing stand-up half the time.
Hey, oh, this guy said this, and Obama's a Muslim!
And Trump's, oh, I didn't say it, he said it.
Oh, well, I'll repeat what he said.
Well, don't you dare say that I said Obama's a Muslim!
I just, or what, that Ted Cruz is a pussy.
Well, I didn't say it, but, oh, you didn't hear what he said?
Oh, well, that guy said Ted Cruz is a pussy, but, come on, I would never say that.
So that's the, that's the interesting thing here, because I want people to say whatever they want, and we all know it's bullshit, and they go into Congress, and they say, oh, the gentleman from blah, and it's like, we know you all hate each and you're all making side deals and all that.
So unmasking that is all good.
And that's the part of the Trump thing, the train that I can get on.
So maybe there will be some good.
The other part, I can't get there.
The part about the policy stuff and what he really believes.
And I get what you're saying.
You're basically saying that stuff doesn't matter 'cause there's, 'cause shit's gonna go down either way.
I just can't get there on that, but I do, I accept your premise as to why other people
So that's why you look, even if you look at the pictures coming out where the migrants are crossing into Greece and they're crossing into Germany and wherever else they're going.
It's all men.
It's all men in their twenties and thirties.
Not a hundred percent, but a huge percentage of it.
And this is where I, as a liberal, have been painted into a corner here.
For the eight months that I've been doing this show, I've tried to talk about the difference between ideas and people, and doctrine versus the average person that may or may not be religious and probably isn't oppressing anyone and doesn't want to blow anything up.
But I've been left, basically, with my 10 guys on the left, and the whole conversation has been handed to Trump.
People don't sit down and just have a rational conversation.
Well, what do you really think about this?
People have written about me before, written about my tweets.
Nobody's ever said, hey, I read this tweet.
Where he told a guy to go kill himself.
What did you really mean?
Well, the guy he told to kill himself had actually tried to kill his ex-girlfriend, was at a rehab and burned a girl with cigarettes.
Real bad guy, right?
And he was a troll who wasn't really going to kill himself.
He was doing the whole, I'm having a meltdown, therefore I'm mentally ill.
Because that's what you do when you do bad things now, right?
You go to rehab or you claim mental illness.
But nobody says, hey, what's the context, man?
What's the backstory?
So you realize, well, you might as well Be a maniac.
You put on a good show.
The people love it.
So when Trump started... I didn't know about Trump.
That's the funny thing and that's probably why I saw early on why he was going to do so well.
I watched one season of The Apprentice when I was in law school 10 years ago.
Right?
So I didn't really know anything about Trump, and I looked at what he did and I go, fuck, he's just doing what I do, but on a scale that is way bigger than I do.
And what you're doing is you realize that, okay, what do people love?
Men, women, drama.
People love drama.
People love conflict.
Conflict is attention.
Negative attention, positive, because you can take a hater and turn that hater into a lover, but you can't turn people who don't know about you into anything.
I've maybe watched five minutes of Survivor, ever.
I never watched American Idol, any of that stuff.
The only reality show that I've watched is The Celebrity Apprentice.
So, and this was, you know, five years ago before he was running for president.
So that, I guess, says it right there.
There is something about him.
You're not gonna convince me to vote for him by the end of this, but that I can understand the logic of it.
And I thought also that, you know, having someone on that's a Trump supporter would be interesting because everyone's just screaming at each other, right?
So we should match, the media would love us to be sitting here screaming at each other.
You have a personal brand, I have a personal brand.
But you'll see some guy that have a job with the Washington Post and say, Trump doesn't know what he's doing, he's an idiot.
I'll go on the guy's Twitter account, and I'm like, dude, you're right at the Washington Post, and you have like 1,500 followers.
Like, I have 31, and it's all organic following, you know, I sell more books than these guys and everything, because I'm real, I know who does what, because you can look at the Amazon sales ranks.
You don't get it.
The media game is hard.
Trump is winning it.
So maybe instead of saying, well, this guy's evil, why don't you just take a step back, breathe, and say, well, what is he doing?
So that's interesting because I've noticed in the last few days since the rally at Chicago that got canceled, that the media definitely, I hate using the phrase the media as it's this monolith, but the mainstream media and even a lot of the online stuff, they've really doubled down now on Trump is evil and all that stuff.
Now again, I started this show by giving a litany of reasons why I'm not voting for this guy.
But I think that every time BuzzFeed puts out an article saying why he's evil, or every time Politico does it, or especially anything that's on the left, right, so New York Magazine or anything, I think they're just strengthening him.
And they, what I don't understand is, do you guys not understand Psych 101?
Did none of you go to college because all you're doing is making him stronger?
Okay, so everybody, most of them don't understand it, but some of them do.
But ultimately, we're all in a big media matrix.
Okay, I'll uncover a media hoax, and then the next day, I'll be like, oh yeah, I read this article and the whatever that I just said yesterday is a piece of shit.
You know, and now I'm saying, whoa, that's an interesting story on this.
So we're all kind of caught in the matrix, and in that regard, The savvy people know that they are ultimately building his brand, but they're getting clicks, they're getting views, and that's what they want.
So we just all deserve the bullshit that we get at the end of the day, right?
Because everything... I know for a fact that if we did this show a little bit differently, so you know, in the YouTube game for example, if we titled things a little differently, we could double our clicks like that.
And I've had many meetings with my guys and I'm just like, I'm not gonna do it.
I just don't want to build something in that way.
But plenty of other people are.
So we all deserve the crap that we're getting because we're building the crap.
Yeah, that's what people want, but then it becomes, you know, you as an artist, you have to find your own integrity.
And my integrity, and I think Trump's integrity, too, is I ultimately have a very good message.
I wrap it up in drama, conflict, and all that other stuff, but smart people see through it.
They can kind of say, okay, I kind of see what's going on.
I see through the theatrics.
Trump is somebody who cares a lot about America, and he does what nobody else running does.
We are Americans.
We have the right to have an identity as a nation.
We have the right to have a culture.
We have the right to say, you as an American, I care more about you than I care about people in China.
Bangladesh, Romania, Nigeria.
Nobody else is saying that, and that's where nationalism comes in, and that's another reason that he's doing well, is this idea that, yeah, I'm an American, you don't hear that much now.
A lot of people, even the sort of chattering class, the so-called intellectuals, will say, well, nationalism's bad, and you're part of a global society.
You think you're part of a global society, but go travel somewhere, and you'll find right away that they don't think you're part of a global society.
So really it's just about which part of the brain these guys are Trump packs more information in a slogan or a tweet than anybody else does.
He jams in a lot and does worse.
So yeah, make America great again.
If you're in advertising or marketing, that's aspirational.
You know that if you're in marketing, you want to be an aspirational good.
Trump is an aspirational.
This is all, this is what pisses me, this is all fucking marketing!
You know, how can all these people who claim they know marketing not just sit and say, okay, Trump is running an ad campaign.
Trump is an aspirational good.
Trump is saying, make America great again, that's an aspirational slogan, and it's tying on nationalistic feelings, like America, and make is a very sort of can-do word, and Americans have a can-do attitude.
It's such a dangerous, slippery slope, and some people are going to play the game.
So I guess that's what it is.
People are angry at him because he's playing the game at a higher level.
So I tweeted a day or two ago, and it's taking off right this second, saying about, it was three things, and it was one, I don't support Trump.
I do believe in free speech.
If you use your free speech to take away someone else's, then one day they will come for you.
And I think that really sums up what's going on here, because if you look at what happened at the rally the other night, it wasn't the government that came in, so it wasn't a First Amendment issue.
The government didn't say, you're not allowed to say this.
But if we start getting to a place, and I'm not saying this is exactly what happened that night because it's a little unclear who started what and whatever, but if we get to a place where everyone is just using their free speech to shout down everybody else, well then we don't have free speech and it has nothing to do with the government.
So there's a huge free speech play here too, right?
You're going to let one guy scream everybody else down.
So then whoever is the biggest heckler is the person who controls the debate.
And then, yeah, the broader point you make is perfect because, not to plug my documentary
that we're doing that we want to talk to you about— Plug away.
That's the point.
It pissed off a lot of my guys because it's called Silenced, our war on free speech.
And they go, no, it's not our war, it's the war.
And we want to think, well, there's a war on all of us free thinkers and everything, but it isn't the government censoring us.
We're fucking doing it to each other.
I'm afraid if I say the wrong thing to you, you're going to think I'm a shitty person.
You're afraid that if you post the wrong thing on Twitter, you're going to get fired from your job or people are going to come after you, they're going to call your advertisers.
One wrong thing.
So we're all kind of censoring each other, where really, why don't we just say, well, you know, you said that.
What do you really mean?
Oh, you're a Trump supporter.
Well, why are you a Trump supporter?
Well, maybe somebody would say, well, I'm a Trump supporter because I believe America has the right to exist as a nation.
So that's interesting, but it goes to the people that are taking the higher road here are almost destined to lose then, right?
Because if you're taking the higher road here and you're saying, I'm going to respect your free speech, you know, I don't like what you say, but I'm going to defend your right to say it.
If you take that road, well, basically from everything you've said here, there's going to be a huge swell of people That won't do that and thus will always win with the heckler's veto, right?
But now there's a massive counterculture where people are saying, you know, me and Lauren, the director of The Silence, we say we're going to make free speech cool again.
You know, we don't have an agenda.
We just want people to know that, you know, it's cool to share your point of view.
It's cool to talk.
And more people are getting that.
If you look at whose profiles are being raised on Twitter, which is kind of Twitter is where the future's headed.
That's why I love Twitter, and we could do a whole hour on just why I love Twitter.
Yeah, because the people who are kind of, I don't like the word thought leaders, but hip, smart, tech savvy people, here's what they're thinking.
They like people like you.
They like people like Laura Southern.
They like people like Milo.
They like people like Gavin McGuiness.
My profile's going.
So the people who are sort of pro-free speech, their profiles are growing.
And then there's a pushback against the regressive left.
So what had happened is we had given everybody the heckler's veto to call you a homophobe, a racist, a misogynist, a transphobe, if you say one wrong thing.
And now you're realizing Well, that's shutting everybody's speech down.
Now, before we had the regressive left, the SJWs, we had the moral majority.
We had Tipper Gore trying to say, you can't listen to... because you and I, you know, I don't want to say we're old.
Yeah, so that center and that, you know, it's interesting, the people that you just mentioned, they're like Laura and Lauren and Milo and the rest of them, they're all to the right.
And again, I always feel like, oh God, I'm the last man standing over here.
But yes, it is growing.
So how do we then coalesce around that?
Knowing that we're not gonna support, I'm not sure who I'm gonna vote for at this point, but that we can sit here and do this.
How do we coalesce around that idea?
We need conversation more than we need everyone judging everybody into oblivion.
Well first off, but just to push back on that a little bit, I mean Trump is also offering to pay that guy's legal fees, which seems pretty crazy to me.
A 78-year-old man punched a black guy walking out, regardless of his race, but punched the
guy and Trump saying, "I'll pay for your illegal piece."
Yeah, it's sort of a nice way to wrap this thing up, although clearly we could have gone a lot longer than this.
But it shows what a moral mess everybody's in, because I do agree with that.
Look, I'm not thrilled with the things Trump's saying.
Again, I'm not supporting the guy.
But when that guy rushed the stage, if you look at the history of this guy's tweets, he's a bit of a nutbag.
He said some crazy things.
And then CNN treated him like a hero.
Now, meanwhile, if a Trump supporter If Trump had bumrushed Bernie Sanders, everyone not only would say this guy should be in jail, but they wouldn't have given him an interview on CNN, but they'd also be blaming Trump.
So yeah, there is an unevenness here that we got to wrap up, but I think we did a little evening of the playing field here.
All right, so I want to thank Mike Cernovich, and you can check out his book, Guerrilla Mindset, how to control your thoughts and emotions to live life on your terms.