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Jan. 15, 2016 - Rubin Report - Dave Rubin
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Conservatives, Black Lives Matter, Racism | Larry Elder | POLITICS | Rubin Report
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dave rubin
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larry elder
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dave rubin
We've spent a lot of time talking about the left around here, but this week we're going to be diving into the right.
My guest is conservative radio talk show host, lawyer, and writer Larry Elder.
Larry has written several books on conservative principles with a focus on government and racial issues.
Much of his work is very similar, actually, to the ideas we talk about here on The Rubin Report, including religion, the role of government, and personal responsibility.
According to his biography, Larry uses facts and common sense to arrive at his conclusions.
That sounds familiar, right?
Now, if I use those same precepts as a liberal, can we both be right at the same time?
Can we both be wrong?
Is the answer somewhere in the middle?
Well, that's exactly what we're going to try to find out.
As I discussed with Don Lemon last week, the media talks so much about the left-right divide in this country that it's easy to forget that there are decent people on both sides of the debate.
This is one of the reasons I've taken the left to task so much on this show.
The further off the deep end they go, the less we'll be able to find compromise with people we disagree with.
Just because I may have different views on abortion than Republicans doesn't mean that they hate all women.
Just because I may have different views than Republicans on guns doesn't mean that they're a bunch of rednecks.
And just because Republicans aren't for legalizing marijuana doesn't mean they aren't fun to hang out with.
Alright, well, that one might be true, but I think you see my point.
Maybe the best way to start a conversation about political ideology is to actually define the terms.
This is something I've done with a few guests so far because I often think we're all talking about different things while using the same words.
Fear not, I have Google, and according to the Oxford Dictionary, here's the definition of conservatism.
"Conservatism is the holding of conservative principles, the tendency to resist great or sudden change, especially
in politics, adherence to traditional values and ideas, sometimes
opposed to liberalism."
Alright, so I think we have a nice jumping off point there.
Basically, conservatives aren't big on change, and when they are, they want to go about it slowly.
I think this concept has been conflated with the concept of right-wing politics, so I even googled that.
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political right opposes socialism and social democracy.
Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian Democrats, classic liberals, nationalists, and the far right, racists and fascists.
You can see how these two concepts have morphed into the Republican Party in America.
We have an ideology that doesn't want to change the system too quickly, coupled with a political affiliation that is focused on economics and some level of moral authority.
Interestingly, classical liberals are also included in that group, and the more and more I've been talking about this stuff, the more I've been considering myself in that category.
I'm going to touch on that more in the next couple weeks.
Now that we've laid out some basic terms, I think we have a solid jumping off point to discuss all the issues of the day.
From abortion to economics to foreign policy to guns, can we find out where we agree instead of just yelling over each other?
I think we can, but the only way is to be brave enough to talk to those we don't actually agree with.
If we refuse to talk to those that we don't see eye to eye with, we'll just end up taking an eye for an eye.
My guest this week is a lawyer, a writer, and host of the aptly named Larry Elder Radio Show.
Larry, how's it going?
larry elder
Great, Dave.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
dave rubin
Yeah, thanks for coming in.
I've been trying to make this happen with you for a while.
larry elder
I've been dodging you forever.
Caught up with me.
dave rubin
I gotcha, I gotcha.
You've been in this studio before, right?
larry elder
I have.
I've guest hosted for Larry a couple times.
dave rubin
Larry King, that is.
larry elder
Larry King.
dave rubin
That's a Larry thing.
larry elder
The man.
dave rubin
He has a thing in his contract.
For the full hour!
He can only have people with the name Larry.
larry elder
That's right.
dave rubin
So there's a lot of stuff I want to talk about and in the beginning of the show I set up that I am a liberal, you're a conservative.
larry elder
My condolences.
Maybe by the time this show is over we can move you to the center a little bit.
dave rubin
And maybe by the time this show is over we can move you.
That's not going to happen.
But that's what it's all about.
Why I've wanted to have you on the show, because I find there are some people in the public space that I disagree with, but that I'd like to sit down and talk about some of the ideas, and I consider you in that space.
I appreciate it.
But before we get to the politics, I'd like the audience to know a little bit about the history of the people I'm talking about.
I know you were born in LA.
Give me a little Larry Elder history to Born and raised in L.A.
larry elder
My dad was a janitor.
He cleaned toilets.
My dad was born in Athens, Georgia.
Doesn't know who his mother is.
Doesn't know who his father is, rather.
My name, Elder, was the name of some dude who was in his life the longest.
My father was kicked out of his house when he was 13 years old by his irresponsible grandmother and was on his own from that point on.
My mom grew up on a farm.
Kind of aristocracy for a black woman.
She owned the farm.
They owned the farm.
Anyway, my dad and my mom got together and moved to California in the 40s.
I have two brothers.
I am, as you mentioned, a lawyer.
Born and raised in L.A.
and went to college in the East Coast, law school in the Midwest.
Stayed in Ohio for about 17 years, came back to L.A.
about 22 years ago, got into TV and radio, and I've been doing it ever since.
dave rubin
There you go.
Alright, so now we got the meat of what you do.
Now, you're not a practicing lawyer, right?
larry elder
Negative, no.
I did it for two and a half, three years, and that was it.
dave rubin
I find a lot of people in the public space either were lawyers at one time, or I know there's a ton of comedians that were lawyers.
What is it about lawyers, a lot of them want to get out?
What's that about?
larry elder
I'm not sure that's true.
It's just a real flexible thing to do.
You learn how to reason, you learn about the law, you learn about the Constitution.
If you're a trial lawyer, you learn how to think on your feet, and it lends itself to doing other things.
But most people I know who went to law school, at least the ones I went to law school with, stayed in the law.
dave rubin
Yeah, so was that a perfect segue to get you to be someone that talks for a living, right?
Like, instead of having to litigate it in a courtroom, you could litigate it on air and bounce back and forth with people.
larry elder
That's right, although most lawyers are not trial lawyers.
It's kind of the image of most lawyers is that they're glib and fast.
Most lawyers sit behind a desk and fill out papers.
They're tax lawyers or constitutional lawyers or contract lawyers or something like that.
only about 10% of lawyers end up going to becoming litigators and even a smaller number
of those actually try cases.
dave rubin
Yeah, alright.
So now let's talk about conservatism.
Let's do it.
So I've mostly been calling out the left on my show because I consider myself part of
the left and I've seen the left sort of really go off the deep end to the left and I haven't
been happy about it.
So I haven't talked that much about the right.
I've had a couple people on the right.
So, first off, how would you define conservatism?
What do you think that even means at this point?
In America in 2016, what is a conservative?
larry elder
Well, I don't mind being called a conservative.
I don't consider it to be a four-letter word, but I really call myself a libertarian.
I believe in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gives the federal government a small number of things to do, Dave.
Mint money, put together an army, deal with the borders, a handful of other things.
That's it.
Welfare, health care, abortion, same-sex marriage, doctor-assisted suicide, all the social issues that the Supreme Court takes up, in my view, they shouldn't take up in the first place.
That should be done on a state-by-state basis.
That's what I think most conservatives believe as well.
dave rubin
So I'm with you on a lot of that, and I definitely have some libertarian beliefs myself.
larry elder
I think most people are libertarian.
They just don't know it.
The Founding Fathers were libertarians.
The Founding Fathers drafted a document that said our rights come from a power other than individuals, and government doesn't give us our rights.
We give government our rights and power, and everything else should be left to the states.
And to individuals.
That's how the Constitution was started.
That's how the country was started.
And I think that's how most Americans really feel when they really think about it.
dave rubin
Well, that's one of the funny things to me and why I've defended somebody like Rand Paul, who a lot of people would say, as a liberal, I shouldn't be defending.
larry elder
He's a libertarian.
dave rubin
But he's a libertarian.
So on issues such as legalizing marijuana or gay marriage, a libertarian, because you don't want the government in your bedroom, you shouldn't care about those issues.
And as a liberal, I want people to do I think so.
larry elder
However, you have people like Bill Maher running around calling himself a libertarian.
Bill Maher is not a libertarian.
He believes in higher taxes.
He believes in a minimum wage.
He supported Ralph Nader for government who wants to take over businesses and have government run them.
So a lot of people use it because it's a sexy kind of term and have no idea what it is.
dave rubin
Right, so that's the economic side of it.
So you're sort of, he's liberal on the social stuff, and in a way, as a conservative, you're actually pretty liberal on the social stuff.
larry elder
Again, I believe that same-sex marriage, doctor-assisted suicide, all these kinds of things, abortion, should be done on a state-by-state basis.
In California, we had two Opportunities to vote for or against same-sex marriage.
Proposition 30 and another time we voted on, I think it was called, Issue 8 or Measure 8.
And in both cases I voted in favor of same-sex marriage.
In both cases I was overruled.
I have no problem with the idea that the majority of my fellow Americans or fellow Californians did not agree with me.
I don't believe that I then go to the Supreme Court and cram it down the throats of the other states.
dave rubin
Right, okay, so then that's the state's rights issue and sort of, so you would say that the Supreme Court is legislating from the bench or something to that effect?
larry elder
Yeah, I would.
dave rubin
Yeah, and that, so you're basically okay with what happened, you just don't like how it happened?
larry elder
Correct.
dave rubin
Yeah.
So someone like Rand Paul, Because it sounds like you have a lot.
Are you supporting him?
larry elder
No, I'm not.
I don't like Rand Paul because of his position on foreign affairs and defense.
A lot of libertarians, and I don't think being a libertarian leads you to being an isolationist, although most libertarians are, for reasons that I think are kind of confusing.
But Rand Paul is one of those guys who attacked George W. Bush for the Iraq War.
I think we were justified in going there.
I think that the reasons for going there were legitimate.
And I think a lot of liberals are hypocritical on this issue, too.
You talked about how you chastise people on the left for being hypocrites.
I'll give you one big one.
The argument against the Iraq war is that George W. Bush foolishly wanted to impose our values on another culture, had no idea what the aftermath would be if we get rid of this bad guy, right?
However, Obama comes into office.
He joins with the British and the French in bombing Libya, getting rid of Qaddafi.
Why?
Did he threaten us?
No.
They did so for humanitarian, civil rights reasons.
Hillary recently at a debate was asked about why she did that.
She said, well, so they could have free elections.
Where was the left?
Same thing with regard to Egypt.
We get rid of Mubarak.
He was a thug, but they're all thugs.
The Muslim Brotherhood comes in there, and Obama backs them.
And the country's worse than it was before.
And then Assad.
dave rubin
And is now backing the guy that took over after the Muslim Brotherhood.
larry elder
And then Assad.
For reasons that escape me, Obama decided Assad had to go.
Why? These countries did not threaten us the way, in my opinion, Iraq did.
Iraq was a deal after 9/11, 90% of the American people believed that we were going to get hit again.
And this guy was stealing from the oil for food program, he was interfering with our patrolling the southern no-fly
zones.
He had used chemical weapons on his own people, we know that, because he used them on the Iranians, he used them on the Kurds.
He had tried to assassinate George Herbert Walker Bush.
He was a threat.
And like it or not, at least we had a legitimate reason for going there, and he got the backing of both the House and the Senate.
Obama did Egypt, and he did Libya, and he did Syria without the backing of Congress, and yet the left didn't say a damn thing.
dave rubin
Right, so I'm with you on the hypocrite part because, listen, I was, there's plenty of video, I was against the Libya thing because at the very least, at the very, very least, if we're going to have a military action, we should have congressional approval, right?
So then instead of calling it a war, they called it a kinetic military action.
larry elder
Well, and beyond that, Libya did not pose a threat to us.
He had no WMD because he gave them up after we went into the war in Iraq.
He was scared beliefless.
He gave up the WMD, not to the United Nations, he gave it to us.
They're under lock and key in Tennessee as we speak.
So what was the rationale?
And where was the left?
The same people yelling and screaming about George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and neocons and nation building.
Where were they?
They didn't say anything.
It's hypocritical.
dave rubin
Yeah.
Well, listen, we don't have congressional authorization right now, so I would assume by a lot of standards on the left, Obama is probably a neocon to them, right?
larry elder
If they were being consistent, but they're not.
dave rubin
So, but what was the actual threat?
I mean, so I'm with you on some of this in terms of that we all sort of pick our sides and then our values suddenly change depending on who's in power.
But what do you think?
larry elder
If you're principled, you don't do that.
And I think myself to be principled.
dave rubin
I consider myself to be principled as well, so everything that I've said in the past related to all this stuff still stands up.
But what was the actual threat from Iraq?
Look, I know that Saddam did horrible things, and you've laid out a couple of them, but what was the actual threat?
larry elder
George W. Bush properly said that they were a grave and gathering danger.
After 9/11, 90% of the American people thought we were going to get hit again and thought
the hit was going to be bigger than 9/11.
So George W. Bush looks around and says, "Where are the threats?"
We were still technically at war against Saddam Hussein.
We went to war against him in 1991 and he promised to fully and thoroughly declare his
chemical and biological weapons.
He failed to do so.
He violated resolution after resolution after resolution.
And we feared that he would either use them himself or give them to a terrorist and use
them against us and make 9/11 look like a picnic.
That was a threat.
It took him 15 months to turn over this stuff and he refused to do it.
Bush went to the United Nations.
dave rubin
But then it did turn out that there were no nuclear weapons.
There were only weapons of mass destruction.
larry elder
Actually, I disagree with that as well.
I believe the weapons were there.
We gave him 15 months to thoroughly declare what he did.
In that 15 months, in my opinion, he got rid of it.
And I'm not the only person that said that, Dave.
The National Intelligence Director, our top spy, his name is James Clapper, he's in office
right now under Obama, has publicly said he believes that Saddam Hussein did in fact have
stockpiles of WMD, got rid of them during the 15 month run up to the war.
The Israeli Mossad feels the same way and there are several other American officials
that have said that.
So I don't believe George W. Bush got the intelligence wrong.
We have 16 intelligence agencies.
All 16 said at the highest level of probability that Saddam Hussein had stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.
Obama had the same CIA director who served under Bill Clinton, George Tenet.
He said the likelihood that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons and biological weapons was a slam dunk.
And the same people that called George W. Bush a moron wanted him to go, So all 16 of you guys say that he's got this stuff, and you say he's got it, George?
I'm just not feeling it, so I'm not going to do it.
But he's a moron.
dave rubin
So when you say that this is one of the cases that part of the problem, and I think this is a through line through everything we're going to discuss for the next hour, is that I don't know who to believe anymore.
That's become a thing.
So James Clapper, who you just mentioned, he's the same guy, the same CIA director, who sat in front of Congress and said that we're not spying on Americans.
Remember, and he was scratching the top of his head, because as they say in Seinfeld, when you're lying, the higher up you touch on your face, the bigger the lie is.
And he says, we're not wittingly spying on the American public.
We now know that.
That wasn't the case.
larry elder
Well, what he said was, I gave the least untruthful answer I could give.
But later on, he admitted it.
And so, to me, as far as I'm concerned, he's a legitimately honest guy.
dave rubin
Well, I guess he gave the least honest answer.
larry elder
Least untruthful answer.
dave rubin
Least untruthful.
larry elder
Right.
dave rubin
But it wasn't, I guess, I guess, but it wasn't truthful.
larry elder
Well, it was classified.
dave rubin
Yeah.
larry elder
It was classified.
He wasn't supposed to talk about it.
unidentified
All right.
dave rubin
So, without getting too caught up in the words, though, but do you think that's part of the problem, that we just don't know who to believe anymore?
unidentified
No.
dave rubin
We don't believe our government officials.
We barely believe the media.
larry elder
Well, I have my own issues with government, but my problem with the Iraq War is that Republicans failed to say what I've said and defend it.
Even Jeb Bush has not defended it properly.
He was asked when he first started running, what do you think about the Iraq War?
Well, Jeb, I mean, honestly, if you can't even defend what your brother did, how can other people do it?
And so I think Americans have forgotten why we went there.
At one time, 73% of the American people supported this war.
You have to remind people of why you've gone to war.
Remind people what the reasons are.
And people have forgotten, and now they have this vague idea that George W. Bush overreacted and went in there and deposed somebody because he just didn't like him, and that's why we were there, and let's not do that anymore.
That's kind of how people have given the Cliff Notes version of what happened, and it's unfair.
dave rubin
So what would you say to the people that would argue that ISIS wouldn't exist right now if we hadn't toppled Saddam?
Because he at least had, for all the horrible things he was doing, and the Ba'ath Party was doing terrible things, and they were executing people and throwing gays off roofs and, you know, using mustard gas on the Kurds and all that stuff, but at least he was keeping a sort of lid on the actual craziness that we're seeing right now.
larry elder
My problem with that is that we don't know what Saddam Hussein would have done had we not gone there.
Even though we didn't find the stockpiles, there were two people that George W. Bush sent to find the stockpiles.
One was named David Kaye.
The other was named Chuck Dolpher.
Both of them said, we didn't find any stockpiles.
We screwed up.
However, this guy was going to reconstitute his WMD program and reconstitute his nuclear program when the heat was off.
So we would have had to deal with him anyway.
The second thing I say is that President Obama pulled out all the troops because he ran in
2008 and said the Iraq war was a dumb war, we never should have gone there.
Over the advice of Hillary, his Secretary of State, over the advice of his then Secretary
of Defense, Leon Panetta, over the advice of his former Secretary of Defense, Robert
Gates, over the advice of the Joint Chiefs, he pulled out all the troops.
He was warned if you do this there will be a vacuum.
He did it anyway.
Ray Odierno is a member of the Joint Chiefs, he just retired, and he gave a speech when
he retired and was asked if he, does he believe that we should have left people there.
He says yes, had we done so, ISIS could have been dealt with.
So in my opinion, however you feel about it, when Obama walked in and inherited this mess,
he should have made it better, not worse.
dave rubin
He made it worse.
So in a way, you're sort of blaming both sides, right?
In that, or I guess I would blame both sides.
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
I would blame both sides here in that we went to the wrong war, and then by Obama leaving the way he did—even though most of the Americans very clearly didn't want to be there anymore, and when he ran for president seven years ago, his whole thing was, we're going to get out as soon as possible—but that then created the breeding ground for this, because we didn't leave in a sort of— I'll go halfway with you.
Yeah.
larry elder
We didn't go into the wrong war.
We went to the right war for the right reasons.
I think the intelligence was good, and I think the problem was when Obama came in, he wanted to get out so quickly that he did not realize what the aftermath would be.
And I'm not the only one who said this.
Robert Gates has written a book, Scathing Attack, the most scathing attack on a sitting commander-in-chief by a former cabinet member I have ever read.
And he even recently, just a few days ago, Dave, said that Obama's national security and foreign policy advisors are dangerously naive.
They see the world through this prism that they want, which is why the Benghazi thing
happened.
The reason the Benghazi thing happened is Obama's running in 2012, GM is dead, GM is
alive, Osama Bin Laden is dead, and Al-Qaeda is on the run.
Therefore, Benghazi was not thoroughly defended because they thought that the Libyans were
happy with us because we got rid of Gaddafi.
And so, in my opinion, the Obama administration sees the world through their prism of this
ridiculous idea that if we are nicer to people and reach out with an unclenched fist, they
will reach out in kind.
The world doesn't work that way.
We have bad people who hate us and we need to deal with it.
dave rubin
Right, so I'm with you on that part for sure, because look, if you think back to the big speech that Obama gave in Cairo, which was that everyone was saying, this is the reset, this is that we're going to be different, we're going to try to deal with people less with bombs, more with discussion.
I mean, the Middle East especially, but most of the world We're in more of a precarious place now than— I don't think any part of the world is better off with Obama in.
larry elder
And I think that—you look at polls now, George W. Bush left office in the low 30s.
I don't think any president has been that unpopular in my lifetime.
You look at polls now, more people like George W. Bush than like Obama.
Obama's rating is at 45 percent.
Bill Clinton's at this juncture in the seventh year of his term.
He was at 65 percent.
Most Americans believe we're on the wrong track economically, and most Americans believe we're on the wrong track in terms of foreign policy.
unidentified
Yeah.
dave rubin
All right.
So I don't want to get too lost in just foreign policy.
So last thing on this is a lot of what you're saying sort of sounds like neoconservative stuff to me.
Can you be a libertarian and a neoconservative?
I mean, I know this is what you're getting to before.
This is sort of why you don't like Rand Paul.
But those things seem like they have nothing to do with each other.
And yet I know that there's a lot of people that do sort of get what you're saying.
larry elder
Well, the term neoconservatism, to me, is a four-letter word.
It's a term that people invent to malign somebody's position.
I see the world realistically.
I think we have enemies.
We need to deal with them.
I did not believe, as you just now pointed out, that we should have gone to war in Libya.
I don't believe in doing anything unless it's consistent with our national security interests.
When Jimmy Carter, for example, threw the Shah of Iran under the bus in the 70s, what was that all about?
He did it because he wanted freedom.
He wanted to liberate the people who were behind bars, the same people we now call terrorists.
These are the ones that Obama forced the Shah to let out of prison, and they ultimately toppled the regime.
What's that all about?
It's not our job to impose democracy.
It's our job to make sure that countries are not Our enemies, our countries, are doing things that are consistent with our own national security interests.
And that's my problem.
dave rubin
Right.
So you don't want to nation-build.
You want to do things that you consider sort of defensive posture.
larry elder
Correct.
We went into Haiti, I think, during Bill Clinton's administration because they were having difficulties.
Not our job.
dave rubin
I want to get this right, so I want to look at my notes for this.
According to this, you are black.
Is that correct?
larry elder
That is correct.
dave rubin
That is correct.
larry elder
Not African-American.
That's not a term I like.
dave rubin
How come you don't like the term African-American?
larry elder
Ridiculous!
I was born and raised in America.
I've never been to Africa.
Why am I an African-American?
Most of my people have been here longer than most of the other people in this room, yet most people don't have a hyphen.
You know, I'm an Italian-American, Greek-American, Romanian-American.
It's an absurd term.
It's a term that Jesse Jackson almost single-handedly crammed down the throats of our media.
And after Jackson began to talk about why blacks should have some connection to Africa, all of a sudden, New York Times, LA Times, all of the media began using that expression.
It's ridiculous.
dave rubin
Yeah, I mean, I personally don't use the term African American that much because one time I had a guest on the show and I referred to her as African American.
She said, well, I'm actually Jamaican.
So, you know what I mean?
So I guess that that goes to your point.
larry elder
And I remember reading one time, Dave, somebody was given a description of some suspect who had done some crime, was running away, and he was described as an African-American.
How do you know where he was from?
Could have been from Africa, could have been from Jamaica, could have been from Canada.
dave rubin
So what do you make of that?
Because I know you really rail against Jesse Jackson and these guys on the left that use, and I want to talk a lot about identity politics, so the guys that use these phrases, what are they going for there?
larry elder
Well, what is the goal there?
The goal is to tell black people that we're victims, that discrimination and racism remain major problems in America when in fact they don't.
And they want black people to vote for the Democratic Party.
The Democratic Party gets 95% of the black vote.
Uh, and the reason they get it is because blacks are convinced that the number one issue facing the country right now is social justice, racist white cops, uh, discrimination, systemic racism, microaggression, whatever new word they come up with, and it's a bunch of nonsense.
The number one problem domestically facing this country is the breakdown of the family.
And President Obama said it.
I didn't.
A black kid, or a kid, not just a black kid, a kid raised without a dad, is five times more likely to be poor and commit crimes, nine times more likely to drop out of school, and 20 times more likely to end up in jail.
So you're far more likely to end up in jail without having a dad than you are because of a white racist cop.
dave rubin
Right.
So, but you wouldn't not acknowledge that there are some systemic issues.
larry elder
Give me an example.
Tell me what you think the most systemic racist issue is.
What is it?
dave rubin
Well, I would say that because black people in most cases, in many cases, were descendants of slaves, that racism as an institution, that a certain amount of it just exists.
larry elder
In 2015?
Give me the most blatant racist example you can come up with right now.
dave rubin
I think you could probably find evidence that, in general, cops are more willing to shoot if the perpetrator is black than white.
What's your data?
larry elder
What's your basis for saying that?
dave rubin
Well, look, I know a lot of people would say, look what's going on in Chicago.
larry elder
I know what they would say.
I'm talking about what the facts are.
965 people were shot by cops last year and killed.
4% of them were white cops shooting unarmed blacks.
In Chicago in 2011, 21 people were shot and killed by cops.
In 2015, there were 7.
In Chicago, which is a third black, a third white, and a third Hispanic, 70% of the homicides
are black on black.
About 40 per month, almost 500 per year last year in Chicago, and 75% of them are unsolved.
Where is the Black Lives Matter on that?
The idea that a racist white cop shooting unarmed black people is a peril to black people
is BS, is complete and total BS.
And the reason for these so-called activists saying this is the assumption that racism
remains a major problem in America.
The media, CNN, especially MSNBC, runs down whenever a black cop shoots somebody, and it's some march on Washington.
It's ridiculous.
Half the homicides in this country are committed by and against black people.
Last year there were 14,000 homicides.
Not talking about suicides, I'm talking about homicides.
Half of them were black, 96% of them black on black of that 7,000.
Where's the Black Lives Matter people on that?
dave rubin
So there's where you would say that this is purely because of social justice.
This is purely because they want ultimately for people to be angry enough to just keep voting.
larry elder
That's right, and where's the evidence of a lack of social justice?
When a black suspect is killed by a cop, believe me, the media's on it, people are watching it, and justice will, for the most part, occur.
In Baltimore, where Freddie Gray was killed, Freddie Gray died in a van, I shouldn't say was killed, died in a van, you have a city that's 45% Not black.
City Council is 100% Democrat.
The majority of City Council is black.
The top cop at the time was black.
The number two cop was black.
The majority of the command staff is black.
The mayor is black.
The AG is black.
And yet here we are talking about racism.
I mean, it's absurd.
It's absurd.
dave rubin
So it's funny, I find myself caught in between this a little bit, as a liberal, where I want to always try to defend the other.
So in this case, the other being black people, I'm always sympathetic to that.
And at the same time, I hear you laying out a pretty solid case.
larry elder
I'll tell you something else, too. There was just a study, University of Washington, and it turns out cops were more
reluctant, more hesitant to pull the trigger against a black suspect than a white suspect, probably because of the
fear of being accused of racially profiling and the fear that the civil rights establishment was going to come down
on them.
So if anything, whites are more likely to be shot by a cop under certain circumstances than a black person. And in the
last 30 or 40 years, the number of, percentage of suspects killed by cops who are black has declined 75%. However, the
percentage of whites killed by cops has flatlined.
And so, if anything, people are more concerned about shooting black people for fear that they're going to be called racist.
And almost every one of these incidents, whether it's Eric Gardner in New York who died because he was selling loosies and resisted arrest, whether it's Tamir Rice in Cleveland who was twirling around the gun, whether it's Michael Brown in Ferguson who had just committed a strong-arm robbery, almost every one of these incidents involves somebody resisting arrest.
Why don't you just do what the police tell you?
My dad said when I get pulled over, have my hand at 10 o'clock, have my hand at 2 o'clock, say yes sir, say no sir, make sure my paperwork is in order, and if I feel the cop is mistreating me, get a badge number and deal with it later on.
If Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Obama and the whole group of them told black people to do that, we'd have a lot fewer of these things to deal with in the first place.
dave rubin
Yeah.
All right.
So I'm with you.
I'm hearing a lot of what you're saying here.
So as a black conservative then, who now you've laid out your case there.
larry elder
But you haven't laid out yours.
I asked you to name the most important example of racism and you gave white cops going after black people.
And I told you, gave you the facts for that.
So that's nonsense.
You must have something else.
What else is it?
If you think racism remains a problem in America, give it to me.
dave rubin
Well, I think it remains a problem.
Give it to me.
larry elder
Give it to me.
dave rubin
It may not be systemic in that it's not like you're not being hired because you're black.
There's no systemic reason, you know, legal reason that that exists, that kind of thing.
But I think that racism as a general theory exists.
larry elder
I need some specifics.
You gave me the white cop thing.
What else?
Give me another example where you think it's a problem.
dave rubin
Well, as a black conservative, tell me, how do you get people to come around to you?
larry elder
You're the one who made the assertion that you think racism remains a major problem in America.
I asked you to give me an example.
You gave me white cops going after blacks.
As far as I'm concerned, you didn't hold it up very well.
What's the other argument you have?
What's the other thing?
dave rubin
Well, I don't know that it's systemic in the sort of macro sense.
larry elder
I'm not mad.
I just want to know what it is you're talking about.
dave rubin
Believe me, that's 100% why I wanted to have you here.
larry elder
Blacks are not getting into school.
B.S.
We have affirmative action.
So a black person with an SAT and a GPA of X will get into a school faster and easier than a white person with an SAT or a GPA of X. And if going to school is a route to the middle class, you can make an argument that blacks have an easier route to the middle class.
If you're talking about blacks, about poverty, The poorer you are, the more accessible loans and grants are for you.
The problem, the biggest burden that black people have, in my opinion, again, is the percentage of blacks, 75% of them, that are raised without fathers.
And that has every other social negative consequence connected to it.
Crime, not being able to compete economically in the country, being more likely to be arrested, That's the number one problem facing the black community.
And when I hear people tell me about systemic racism or unconscious racism, I always say, give me an example and almost nobody can do it.
dave rubin
So the family stuff.
I'll follow your logic there on family stuff.
What can actually be done about that then?
I mean, because that's a big... Reverse the welfare state.
larry elder
1890, 1900, you look at census reports, a black kid, believe it or not, was slightly more likely to be born to a nuclear intact family than a white kid.
Even during slavery, a black kid was more likely to be born under a roof with his biological mother and biological father than today.
What's happened is we launched this so-called war on poverty in the 60s.
Where literally Lyndon Johnson sent people knocking on doors.
I lived in the 60s, and people knocked on doors, apprising women of their availability to welfare, provided there was no man in the house.
And we went from 25% of blacks being born outside of wedlock in 65, to 75% right now.
And you look at how much money that we spent on welfare, and the lines are parallel.
It was a neutron bomb dropped on this country, not just on the black community, but on people
in general.
At one time, only about 5% of whites were born outside of wedlock.
Now 25% of whites are born outside of wedlock.
I was in college in 1970, and there was a report called the Moynihan Report, the Negro
family, a case for national action.
It was written by a liberal, by a man who became a Democratic Senator from New York.
And at the time, 25% of black kids were born outside of wedlock.
He said, my God, this number is horrific.
If we don't do something about it, it could get even higher.
Well, fast forward, 25% of white kids are now born outside of wedlock.
It is the number one problem in this country.
And what we've done, in my opinion, is we've economically incentivized women to marry the government We've allowed men to abandon their financial and moral responsibility.
And now we have this.
So do you think-- - And the left has done this.
dave rubin
Right, okay, so do you think then that as a black conservative,
that the biggest issue is it's impossible to have this conversation, right?
Like the stuff we're talking about right now is rarely really discussed in the media.
You know, people, you've written some books about it and it's, people talk about it every now and again,
but we rarely have this discussion because, and this is where I will agree with you,
that the left has made language such a problem and everyone's so trigger-warned and safe-spaced
that we're afraid that if you have this conversation, that somehow I'm gonna come off racist, you know?
larry elder
That's not why we don't have the conversation.
We don't have the conversation because the left would then have to look in the mirror
and go, "Jesus H. Christ, look at what I've done."
And they don't wanna do this.
I've had a radio show for almost 25 years.
I've invited Jesse Jackson on 50 times, 60 times.
I've invited Al Sharpton on that number.
Maxine Waters, another loud-mouthed black woman around here who's running around talking about racism.
She won't come on my show either.
They don't want to deal with these issues.
Why?
Let's have a conversation.
If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong.
Tell me how I'm wrong.
Give me your data.
Give me your facts.
Tell me what you got.
And I could quote the Brookings Institution, which is a liberal think tank, and the Heritage Foundation, which is a conservative think tank, and they'll both tell you that there's a relationship between crime and bad schools and going to prison and not having a dad.
So this is not just a liberal kind of thing or a conservative kind of thing, it's a real world kind of thing, and they don't want to have that conversation.
I've never heard a reporter ask Obama about the connection between the rise of the I've never heard anybody ask him that question.
Not one time.
And so, as far as I'm concerned, there's this desire not to have this conversation for fear that it then will cause you to rethink your assumptions.
A psychologist would call that cognitive dissonance.
This anxiety that you feel when you have had your assumptions challenged and you don't want to do it.
It's uncomfortable.
dave rubin
Yeah, so how then would someone like you or someone that believes in the things that you're talking about, how do you wrestle away a little bit of the narrative from the Black Lives Matter folks?
Because obviously you care about the same thing, right?
larry elder
Of course I do.
I tell the truth.
I talk about the number one cause of preventable death for young white men is car accidents.
The number one cause of preventable death for young black men is homicide committed by other young black men.
I tell the truth.
I give the facts.
And the facts are racist.
dave rubin
Yeah.
Facts are racist.
larry elder
Hashtag facts are racist.
dave rubin
Right.
So, you know, I'm friends with another black conservative, David Webb.
You probably know him on SiriusXM, and he's a Fox News contributor.
And I had been doing a progressive show a while back, and I was on with someone, and they didn't know him personally, nor knew that I was friends with him.
larry elder
Right.
dave rubin
And they kept saying he's the token black guy on Fox.
Right.
larry elder
Oh my goodness.
Token, Bootlicker, Uncle Tom, Sambo, Sambo Tom, Coconut as in brown on the outside, white on the inside, Oreo, same concept, the Antichrist.
Because they've got to malign somebody like me.
I am a bigger threat to their whole ideology than almost anybody else.
A black guy who does not believe that he's a victim, a black guy who believes in hard work and personal responsibility, a black guy who doesn't believe in handouts, a black guy who doesn't believe in the welfare state, a black guy who doesn't believe in affirmative action, I am the antithesis of everything they stand for.
And therefore, I can't just be dealt with facts and rebutted with facts.
I've got to be maligned.
I've got to be cast away.
I've got to be treated as if I'm Darth Vader.
That's what the left does.
dave rubin
So that's interesting, and again, this is where I've really struggled with my guys on the left, because in a way that is actually showing racism.
larry elder
It's racist.
Of course it is.
dave rubin
It's bigotry.
larry elder
I don't have the same right to have an opinion as somebody else.
I've never heard Rush Limbaugh be called anti-white because he criticizes Hillary and the left.
But I criticize black left people, and I'm anti-black.
It's bigotry.
It's racism.
Calling somebody an Uncle Tom is as offensive as calling somebody an N-word lover.
dave rubin
Yeah, so when it comes to the black community and politics, so I got you on a bunch of this stuff.
The black community in a lot of ways isn't for some of the things that the Democratic Party is for, right?
Because the black community, a lot of times, and it has a lot to do with the church, is more socially conservative.
larry elder
The only thing that connects black people to the Democratic Party, in my opinion, is this notion of social justice and this notion that racism remains a major problem in America.
Look down the list of things that black people like and support.
Blacks are more pro-life than whites are.
Blacks were more anti-gay marriage than whites were.
That's one of the reasons this proposition passed here in California, is because of the way blacks and browns voted.
Again, I didn't vote that way, but it's the way a lot of blacks and browns did.
Blacks want to be wealthy.
One of the reasons Donald Trump is getting about 25% of blacks, which is five times, by the way, the percentage that Mitt Romney got, is because of Donald Trump's swagger and his being proud that he's made money.
And in the inner city...
dave rubin
Wait, that's a really fascinating little piece right there.
larry elder
One more quick one, this is important.
The Democratic Party is completely beholden to the teachers union and vice versa.
The union is adamantly opposed to vouchers, where the money follows the kid rather than
the other way around.
Inner city black women and fathers, and inner city black brown women and brown fathers want
They realize the schools suck.
I went to Crenshaw High School in South Central.
Right now, three percent, that's not a typo, three percent of kids can do math at grade level.
I'm going to send my kid to that school because I don't have enough money to send my kid to a better school?
It's an assault.
There's a program called the D.C.
Hope Scholarship program where every year.
Parents who subscribe to the program and it's four times as many people want to get in as there are seats will give
kids about 10 to $12,000 to go to a non DC government school and
every two years when it's over, Obama, the Democrats kind of try
to shut it down and the reason they don't is a bunch of black
parents go to the streets, have a press conference, start crying and so all my kids doing
I can't think of anything more damaging to a kid future is to
send him to a school where it's a crip school where the kids are
are not learning where a lot of them are not learning because
they don't care and where the whole level is now dumbed down
to cater to the lowest common denominator in a class.
And as a result, you have kids that have Poor SAT scores than they otherwise would if they had a chance to go somewhere else that challenged them.
And so inner-city parents want vouchers.
Young black people, when they're told about the benefits of privatizing Social Security, want to do it because 65 years old, Blacks die sooner than whites do.
And when you die, all your contributions to Social Security go poof, as opposed to being able to will it to your child.
When blacks are taught about this, young blacks want the opportunity to put their money into an account that they can control, so when they get 65 years old, they have real money.
So, privatizing Social Security, vouchers, abortion, same-sex marriage, all of these issues, blacks are really not in lockstep with the Democratic Party.
But the Democratic Party has successfully convinced blacks that racism, this white cop, this is widespread, the man's out to get you, and vote for us, and we'll deal with it.
dave rubin
So how much of this is a messaging problem?
If I grant you all of that, right, how much of this is just a messaging problem by the Republicans?
Because it seems to me, and I've said this several times, that someone like Tim Scott, who is a black Republican senator from the South, He should be a hero, not only of the black community, but he should really be a hero of the left, right?
Because this is a successful black man.
larry elder
He should be an American hero.
dave rubin
He really should be.
I mean, he should certainly, at the very least, be bigger in the national debate.
Why isn't he a bigger surrogate for whoever he's going to support?
I assume it will be a Republican.
Why is this guy lost in the scheme of things?
larry elder
Well, it's the same reason that blacks vote 95% for the Democratic Party.
He's considered to be an Uncle Tom.
He's a Republican.
He's a black Republican.
He's some sort of unicorn.
I don't know what he is.
That's how they feel.
dave rubin
So then what do you do?
What do you do as a Republican to break this narrative?
You know, I got it.
You tell the truth.
Tell the truth?
I got it.
You tell the truth.
But obviously there has to be something bigger than messaging here because you're telling me the numbers.
90, 95% vote Democrat.
larry elder
Well, it's an uphill fight.
To me, there is an access of indoctrination.
You have the media, you have academia, and you have Hollywood, all of which tell black people that they're victims.
Most professors are to the left, the media certainly is all to the left, and Hollywood's to the left.
And so, you get up and you're indoctrinated all the time with things like social justice, inequality, the man's out to get you, we need a higher minimum wage, you name the left-wing a policy and you pick it up through osmosis.
That's why when we first started the conversation, I said, "I hope to move you towards the center,"
and you said, "I hope to move you towards the center," and I said, "It's not going
to happen because there's nothing you can tell me I haven't heard, but I probably can
say some things your audience hasn't heard."
Because LA Times, New York Times, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, New York Times, you name it, these
are all to the left.
Whatever left-wing position, you're going to hear it.
You're going to hear why, how, and where.
But the other position, you won't hear unless you watch Fox News or listen to talk radio, and a lot of people won't do it if you make them, if you pay them.
dave rubin
Right, so I hope it's clear in our 40 minutes or so together so far.
When I say I'm on the left, I consider myself a classic liberal in that I stand for liberal principles.
larry elder
John Stuart Mill type liberal.
dave rubin
Exactly, exactly.
larry elder
That's not a liberal.
dave rubin
And I know in a lot of ways... That makes you a conservative.
larry elder
You're a Jack Kennedy kind of Democrat.
He cut taxes.
He was a coal warrior.
He liked hunting.
He liked the Second Amendment.
dave rubin
So doesn't this show you how stupid the words are?
larry elder
So what I did at the top of the show... No, no, it shows you how the Democratic Party has evolved to the left and abandoned principles.
My mom was a Democrat.
My mom was a Republican.
My dad was a Republican all his life.
And my mom stopped voting for the Democratic Party.
And she said, as many people have said, I didn't leave the Democratic Party.
They left me.
She didn't like welfare.
She didn't like the idea of rewarding people just because you had a kid, and then giving you more money when you had an additional kid.
She didn't like any of all of that.
And she started voting for George W. Bush her last two election cycles.
So it's really ironic that... It's not messaging, it's the fact that the country in general has gone to the left, and the Democrats to a greater degree than Republicans have gone to the left.
The country has changed, in part, in my opinion, because of immigration, including illegal immigration.
People who are coming to the country illegally from third world countries like Mexico, they don't know what I'm talking about when I talk about limited government.
They believe healthcare is a right.
They're taught that in Mexico.
They're taught that other places.
And they come here in America, and they pull that lever for the Democratic Party, which is why, in my opinion, the left wants borders to be porous.
Because it changes the country.
It changes the electorate.
dave rubin
It changes the demographics and all that.
larry elder
The Democratic Party has not won the white vote since 1964.
The more white people there are in the country, the worse Democrats do.
The more left-wing, the more people of color there are in the country, the best the left
does.
And so what incentive is there for them to police the borders?
What incentive is there for them to shut down sanctuary cities, to stop catch and release?
There isn't.
In my opinion, there's been a very subtle and very diabolical changing of the mentality of this country by left-wing people so that a state like California could never vote for Ronald Reagan as they did in the past, could never vote for Richard Nixon as they did in the past.
You have New York and California, just write them off.
And there's 10 or 12 states now that we fight over, everything else is now written off.
It's ridiculous.
dave rubin
So at the top of the show, when I was laying out some of the principles that we're talking about here, I saw classical liberalism falling into the conservative category, as you just said.
And it's funny because while I consider myself a classical liberal, and we can lay out every liberal principle there is that I would defend, it's scary to me because we get so caught up in words that, you know, uh-oh, I don't want to be considered a conservative.
Because I'm a liberal.
It's a scary proposition.
larry elder
Right.
Well, again, it's about limited government and personal responsibility.
As far as I'm concerned, what you've told me is that you are really somebody on my camp, far more so than somebody on Bernie Sanders' camp.
dave rubin
Well, I'm liberal in that I'm for gay marriage, and I don't mind if you smoke weed in your bedroom.
As a general rule, I do like lower taxes, but I think we could have a progressive tax at some level, so we probably disagree a little bit there.
I do think you should, if you keep making more and more, and especially as you're getting into the dozens of millions and the hundreds of millions, yeah, we could have a progressive tax that would tax those people more.
I'm not necessarily for the 90% tax that Bernie wants.
So, you know, some of the economics.
larry elder
I wonder, let me ask you, why is it that nobody gave Dick Cheney love?
Because Dick Cheney had a more progressive position on same-sex marriage than Obama did.
dave rubin
When Obama was still evolving, Cheney... But Cheney didn't have it until he was out of office.
So that's, you know, it's a little disingenuous what he did.
larry elder
He still, years before Obama said he was in favor of gay marriage, said, "I'm in favor
of allowing states to determine this."
He said that years before Obama...
dave rubin
Was that while he was in office, though?
I don't think that was while he was president.
larry elder
All I know is years before Obama, because when Obama became president in 2008, he not
only said that he was in favor of traditional marriage, he said God was in the mix.
All of a sudden, years later, God's no longer in the mix.
I don't know how God was in the mix four years ago, and then God got out of the mix.
But anyway, the point is that Dick Cheney said that he supported same-sex marriage on
a state-by-state basis well before the left did, well before Obama did, well before Hillary
did.
unidentified
Got no love.
dave rubin
So isn't actually...
Well, that, I think, would just go to...
Because politicians are pandering.
I mean, that—I don't know that that makes Obama any more of a liar than any other politician, as much as they're all just—they're all just pandering, right?
larry elder
I'm talking about—I get you.
I'm talking about why somebody didn't give Cheney a couple of attaboys on that.
I know that people on the left hate him, call him a neocon and believe he was whispering
in George W. Bush's ear and got Bush to do all sorts of bad things.
But I would have thought on this issue, since the left considers it such an important issue
– I don't, by the way – that they would not have given Cheney a little bit of love.
dave rubin
What do you mean?
You don't consider… Same-sex marriage to be that big of a deal.
To me it's give people equality and then let's not think about it anymore.
That would be what I would say.
larry elder
Fair enough.
I'm just saying I think the number one issue in this country is self-defense and the number one domestic policy issue, as I mentioned, is the destruction of the family.
These other things, same-sex marriage, war on drugs, global warming, I consider to be further down the list.
dave rubin
Yeah.
So the war on drugs, you're actually for legalizing drugs, right?
larry elder
I'm for the government getting out of it, both federally and at the state level.
Yeah, and interestingly, this may be a little boring for your viewers, but earlier in the 20th century we had the war against alcohol.
The Constitution was amended to fight the war against alcohol, and then it was amended again when we decided it didn't work.
We've had since Richard Nixon this war on drugs.
The Constitution was never amended for that.
And I don't understand why people don't make the argument that it is illegal what the federal government is doing.
Because In order to get rid of alcohol, Congress knew that they had to change the Constitution, which they did.
There's no power, Article 1, Section 8, that gives the federal government the authority to wage a war on alcohol or a war on drugs.
But to do the one on alcohol, they changed the Constitution and then rechanged it, but they never did that for the war on drugs.
dave rubin
Yeah, so how much of that do you think goes to why the black family has been affected?
I mean, when you think about the amount of black people, black men especially, and minorities in general that are in jail, we now have for-profit jails, and a huge percentage of these people are in jail because of drug offenses.
larry elder
Well, not that many, about 12 to 15 percent.
dave rubin
That seems pretty significant.
larry elder
Whatever the percentage is, I think the war on drugs should be rethought and we should deal with it as a health problem and not a criminal justice problem.
But the reason for the large number of black behind bars goes back to what I said earlier about the breakdown of the black family.
It's like kicking a puppy though.
kinds of values and that has all sorts of other social consequences including a
dave rubin
greater propensity to commit crime. Yeah, all right let's back up for a second
because you quickly said something about Hollywood and I know I follow you on
Twitter and you rail against Hollywood all the time.
Basically your argument is that...
It's like kicking a puppy though. It's become, and I can tell you know...
It's not that difficult. Right, so just the other night you know you were
tweeting a little bit about the Golden Globes and the targets that Gervais
Last night I saw you on CNN.
Don Lemon, who I had on last week, was on the show last week.
He was talking about Tavis Smiley and you're not a fan of Tavis.
larry elder
I've known him a long time.
He doesn't preach what he practices.
What he is is a hard-working guy who came from Indiana with a big poor family.
and has done quite well with his life.
And instead of telling people, bust your butt, do what I did, work hard, stay focused,
it's the man's out to get you.
Social justice, racism, racism everywhere.
It's nonsense.
Hollywood is an easy target because these guys, the Golden Globes, they've got these fine clothing,
designer clothing and designer tux and their jewelry.
They're all anti-second amendment, but they're all protected by armed security guard.
And how many of them plied into a Prius to get to and from the ceremony?
dave rubin
I mean... You're saying very few, I think.
larry elder
Very, very few.
You're saying they were in big gas guzzling... Not a large number.
dave rubin
Limos, yeah.
larry elder
And notice there were several Bill Cosby jokes.
I think three or four Bill Cosby rape jokes.
Not one Bill Clinton rape joke.
Pourquoi?
dave rubin
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm a firm believer that a lot of them actually privately are supporting Republicans, or at least are voting Republican.
But there's this idea that, okay, we're going to go on this social... You can't say it out loud.
You can't say it out loud.
larry elder
Name one A-list young actor or actress who's an out-of-the-closet Republican.
Just one.
dave rubin
Young?
larry elder
I mean... Yeah, I mean, 2030s, you can do it once you're Clint Eastwood, once you're Kelsey Graham.
dave rubin
John Voight doesn't count as young, right?
larry elder
No, but somebody in his 20s, Jennifer Lawrence-age star, name one.
There's got to be somebody.
They can't be 100% left-wing, but they will not say so because they know they won't get parts.
dave rubin
Right, and you would say that's not necessarily because they believe those things as much as just the structures in place.
larry elder
It's the bigotry in Hollywood.
The open-minded, empathetic people, they're fine as long as you don't say something that pisses them off.
And you say that you're going to support Donald Trump.
You won't work if you're 20 or 30 years old.
You won't work.
You're going to lose jobs.
dave rubin
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit about that.
larry elder
And think about that.
These are the people who are in charge of 80 percent of what we see on TV and in movies.
And if you come out and you're 20 or 30 years old and you're a rising star and you say, you know what?
I listened to Larry Elder's show the other day and I think I'm going to vote Republican.
Finished.
Done.
Done.
Now, what kind of power is that to influence the minds of young people, to shape this country culturally?
It is massive.
There was a book called Primetime Propaganda by a young man named Ben Shapiro.
dave rubin
We're getting him on the show.
larry elder
And because he looks so young and looks liberal, whatever that means, he was able to get on the record all these Hollywood producers, people that did Golden Girls, people that did Cops, and got them on the record saying, I would never hire a conservative.
A conservative in this town will be screwed.
A conservative in this town cannot make it.
I intentionally put left-wing messages in my fair.
I try to influence culture this way.
He has them all saying this and has them on tape.
And the book came out, and it didn't make any difference.
They didn't say, I'm sorry.
They didn't say, we ought to rethink our assumptions.
He interviewed Fred Silverman, who at one time was the head of ABC, CBS, and NBC, has Fred Silverman on the record saying, a conservative cannot make it in this town.
Now, if Hollywood has a great impact on how we think, on our culture, and you have this Gestapo essentially shutting out people who are conservative, what does that say?
It's scary to me.
It's frightening to me.
dave rubin
Yeah, well, messaging is everything, which actually brings this back to what you said about Trump before, which I think is sort of fascinating, that he's polling better with the black community because he has this sense of swagger, which I think you could probably relate directly back to, you know, rap music and stuff like that.
These guys aren't, they're not ashamed of their success.
And that, so in a weird way, Trump is sort of doing the exact same, the exact thing that you want.
larry elder
I agree, but I think there's another big reason that Trump is scoring with black people.
One of the most under-polled things in this country is how black people are pissed off about illegal immigration.
When I was younger, there was a movie that came out in the 70s called Car Wash.
Richard Pryor was in it, and George Carlin was in it.
And it was about a day in the life of this car wash in South Central, not too far from where I grew up.
Virtually all the employees were black.
I defy you to go to a car wash in South Central now and see any employee who's black.
Illegal immigrants have come over and taken over this business.
And black people see it, and they realize it, and they are angry about it.
And the Democratic Party, however, because of what I said earlier about trying to shift the electorate to the left, has, in my opinion, thrown blacks under the bus on this issue.
And a lot of blacks who are aware of it are not happy about it.
And Donald Trump's position on immigration resonated with a lot of black people.
The other thing about Donald Trump that I think in general, not just black people, is appealing to me anyway, and I'm not quite sure why some of my fellow Republicans are so adamantly opposed to Donald Trump.
This guy, Dave, can self-fund.
He doesn't need your money.
Donald Trump was at a group called the Republican Jewish Coalition, and he was asked a question about does he feel that Jerusalem should be the undivided capital of Israel.
His answer is not important.
He said something like, I'm not sure, I haven't thought it through, and he got booed.
And Donald Trump looked up and he said, I don't need your money.
Now, there's a guy named Sheldon Adelson in Las Vegas.
He's a multi-billionaire.
Last election cycle he gave Newt Gingrich $10 million.
dave rubin
A lot of money.
larry elder
And a lot of people feel that but for that Newt Gingrich's attack on Mitt Romney and
all the footage that he gave Democrats to use in the general election, Romney might
have won.
That's not the point.
The point is, he is a kingmaker.
And right now, he is trying to decide whether he wants to give money to Ted Cruz or to Marco
Rubio.
He has lost Vegas business interests.
I'm not mad at him for doing something to pursue his interests.
But the point is, he expects his phone call to return, to be returned.
Donald Trump can say, "Screw you" to all these people.
The people that get subsidies for milk.
The people that get subsidies for sugar.
The people that get subsidies for this ridiculous product known as ethanol.
The unions that keep Amtrak running.
Donald Trump does not need their money.
He does not have to take their phone call.
This guy can really do what should be done for the American people, which is to get all the crony capitalism and all these so-called special interests out of our government and get it down to the size it ought to be.
Boeing gets money from the government.
Google gets money from the government.
Dutch Royal gets money from the government.
This is corporate welfare, and the reason it happens is because they give contributions to the politicians, who in turn then do their bidding.
Donald Trump does not need their money.
He is in a position to downsize the government in a way unlike any other politician I've ever seen.
dave rubin
Yeah, so there's a lot of irony there.
What you're really talking about is that's truly systemic political problems.
larry elder
Tell me about it.
dave rubin
Absolutely.
And that's something that should unite everybody across the board about how messed up our system is.
larry elder
It should.
Right now, L.A.
is going to get two football teams, probably.
Oakland and San Diego and St.
Louis are all vying to come out here.
By the way, all three of them used to play here.
The Rams used to play here, Oakland used to play here, and the first L.A.
Chargers, one of the AFL teams, started here and they moved to San Diego.
Now they all want to come back.
Why?
Because their respective cities won't give them hundreds of billions of dollars in tax subsidies.
Why should a multi-billionaire get millions of dollars from taxpayers, who then in turn
have to pay all this to go to the game and watch multi-millionaire ballplayers?
It's BS.
dave rubin
It's corporate welfare.
larry elder
It's disgusting.
dave rubin
That's like Citi Field, where the Mets play in New York.
It was funded partly by taxpayer money, but meanwhile the government's bailing out Citibank,
who has their name on the thing.
larry elder
The whole thing is ridiculous.
dave rubin
So the Trump thing, real quick, one of the things is in the first debate, the first Republican
debate about three months ago now, I thought the unmasking that he did was actually kind
of amazing, even though I disagree with him on pretty much everything.
But when they asked him about going to Hillary's daughter's wedding, going to Chelsea's wedding,
and he was like, "Yeah, I get it."
You give them money, they show up at the wedding.
larry elder
Yeah, I give money to everybody.
I'm a business guy.
I gotta, you know, I gotta do what I gotta do.
dave rubin
So in a weird way, even if you don't like, so for my liberal friends and my friends that left, even if you hate the messaging and, you know, all the Muslim stuff and all that, even if you hate all that, the unmasking of the system, and that's why I've also talked about how Bernie and Trump have a lot in common, because the core of what they're doing is the biggest threat to the system, right?
larry elder
Right.
Bernie and Trump have a lot in common in the sense that the establishment is scared to death of both of them.
But Bernie will make things worse.
Taking over large corporations will make things worse.
Raising taxes on job creators will make things worse.
What Donald Trump wants to do will make things better.
dave rubin
All right.
Well, I barely got to any of the questions I have here, which is a testament to you.
So I'm glad we got to sit down.
So let me end this thing on a little bit of the future.
Where do you think this country is going in the next year?
So I sense, are you supporting Trump?
larry elder
I haven't taken a position on anybody yet.
I will support whoever the nominee is over Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, certainly.
dave rubin
Do you view Hillary and Bernie both sort of as equally bad?
larry elder
When you've asked Hillary to give the difference, as Chris Matthews recently did, between a
Democrat and a Socialist.
She couldn't do it.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the chairwoman of the DNC, was asked the same question.
She couldn't do it.
And Hillary has gone further to the left because she's threatened by Bernie Sanders.
She's now come out by talking about a surcharge tax on millionaires.
She didn't do that before.
And she's also come out on the left now on guns.
She didn't want to do that before.
So Bernie's pushed her to the left.
So as far as I'm concerned, their positions are pretty much indistinguishable.
dave rubin
Yeah, and again, this may go to show why the system's just broken, because both sides in the primary process have to stake out these positions that they know that they're not going to govern by.
larry elder
Right.
Richard Nixon used to say, when you want to win presidency in the primary, you run to the right, and then when you run in the general election, you run to the center.
That's kind of how it works.
In the primary season, you have to run to your base and then kind of run to the center to try and get independence.
unidentified
Yeah.
larry elder
That's just how it works.
unidentified
Yeah.
dave rubin
All right.
Well, listen, I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you.
I didn't expect we were going to agree on everything.
We didn't.
That's fine.
Maybe I learned a little something here.
Maybe you learned a little something.
Maybe you learned a little something.
Come on.
I see a glimmer in your eyes.
larry elder
So did you move a little bit towards the center?
dave rubin
Well, I consider myself, as a classical liberal, I don't consider myself off the deep end left.
And maybe I just, I think in general, a lot of people on the left are starting to realize.
larry elder
How do you feel about vouchers?
dave rubin
I think we should have vouchers.
I think you should have access to vouchers.
larry elder
How do you feel about affirmative action?
How do you feel about giving a black person or a brown person additional points just because they're black and brown over some equally qualified white person?
Are you happy with that?
Unhappy?
Don't care?
dave rubin
Oh man, now I'm being interviewed.
All right.
Yeah, I would say that I think at some time, at some point in America, there was a reason that it really did make sense.
Today?
Because some of the more systemic stuff still exists.
larry elder
Today?
dave rubin
And today it probably doesn't make as much sense anymore.
I think you would agree with me on that because that's pretty much what you just said.
larry elder
I don't think it ever made any sense.
dave rubin
But that's exactly why I want to have these conversations and why especially I think that liberals and libertarians should realize that we're sort of in the center together and that there's a way to work together.
So that's exactly why I wanted to do this.
larry elder
Fair enough.
dave rubin
So I thank my guest Larry Elder.
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