Free & Equal Elections, With Guest Christina Tobin
Christina Tobin founded Free & Equal Elections in 2008 to push for open debates and equal ballot access, rallying millions behind candidates like RFK Jr. and Perot while battling censorship—her 2012 Larry King debate drew tens of millions despite UCLA’s resistance. Inspired by her father Jim Tobin’s 1998 ballot-access lawsuit and anti-corruption activism, she advocates replacing party-dominated politics with blockchain transparency to cut ties to lobbyists like AIPAC. With over $1M raised for 2024 debates and a spring/summer tour blending music, art, and truth-telling in Texas, Tobin’s movement seeks unity beyond fear-based divides, aiming to redefine democracy globally. [Automatically generated summary]
This is the Ron Paul Liberty Report with Ron Paul, Daniel McAdams, and Chris Rossini.
We're all ambassadors of the Ron Paul Doctrine.
And it's our simple.
Just tell the truth.
And thank you for tuning in to the Ron Paul Liberty Report.
With us today, we have Daniel McAdams, our co-host.
Daniel, good morning.
Good morning, Dr. Paul.
How are you this morning?
Very well, and we're in for a very good program today.
We have a very special guest, and she is well known for trying to bring organization and sanity to our elections.
She has this weird idea that people who want to run for election ought to have the right to run for election, and they shouldn't be canceled out.
And her name is Christina Tobin, and she is a founder and chairman of the Free and Equal Election.
So good morning.
Good morning, Christina.
I'm glad to have you here in the studio.
And you're our first guest in our new studio, which is still not totally fixed up yet.
But we're glad to have you here in Lake Jackson.
Well, I'm glad to be sitting here next to a legend.
I think the viewers out there, a legend, my hero, I mean.
No fibbing.
Oh, no fibbing, no fibbing, even though I do have some Illinois roots, but I'm not a fib today.
But I mean, I just, I have been in the electoral arena for decades, and you have been one of many inspirations of mine why I'm here today.
So we've talked in different ways, texting and emails, and met each other a few times.
And you've been busy and you're steady and you're reliable and you have a message.
Briefly tell our audience, what is that message?
What is the message that you've been trying to get out and doing a very good job at it because some people have responded that have wanted to participate that feel like they're not getting a fair shake in the elections?
Well, I'm sitting next to you, so I must be doing something right.
And Free and Equal Elections has been around since 2008.
I've been in the electoral arena for almost well over 27 years, and I founded Free and Equal Elections in 2008.
I'm here to unite our country.
There are more independent voters, according to the Gallup Poll, 45% independent voters, more than Democrats and Republicans.
And through Free and Equal Elections, we host independent presidential debates.
We've been doing that since 2008.
Free and Equal also hosts the United We Stand Festival, as well as launching our decentralized blockchain app.
Wonderful.
And you've been busy traveling and you have events all around the country.
Yes, I do.
Do you have a number of people that express an interested?
Are you interested in telling us you have 10 people looking that way you're doing or 20 people or 100 people?
What is the size of your organization?
Because the size isn't everything, but it helps give us an impression that you've been talking to a lot of people and you've had how many conferences you get people to come to conferences and try to pick up from that because that's one of the places where we've bumped into each other.
Is that some of the conferences?
You're there for what you're promoting and you're speeching.
And I'm there for other reasons.
So what is the size of the organization?
We would say beyond dozens, primarily volunteer, if not more.
And the coalition that we've built is hundreds of organizations across the spectrum.
So we've reached tens of millions in 2012 when Larry King and I co-moderated a presidential debate together.
Can you believe it though?
We've been censored quite a bit on social media, a throttle where no real idea is about the media doesn't want a real idea to come to the masses.
University systems, we've had challenges there with UCLA in the past, but we've prevailed.
But, you know, a lot of people and a movement.
You know, Dr. Paul, you've said when an idea comes, nothing is going to get in its way.
And the idea, it's coming.
Boy, for sure.
You know, and we're dealing with the subject of democracy in a more positive term than some people can use, like myself, because sometimes that's misleading.
But the chance to express ourselves.
And, you know, I'm not much into computers and awkward with them.
And I have a little problem with that, but I'm a little skeptical.
But the way I see technology is there's good stuff and bad stuff.
You can find good things.
And I find that a lot of junk out there.
And I have trouble sorting it out.
But I still think it's fantastic because we're sitting here and you know, Daniel is not in this room.
And sometimes we talk to people overseas.
And I'm just really impressed with what can happen and the people that we can reach.
So I think this technology has been helpful to all of us, but it's also a challenge because they can, I'm sure you have seen and experienced the things where things have been done unfairly to you and your organization.
Definitely have had some uphill battles, but I don't give up.
And you're right, I'm consistent.
I keep going.
I never give up.
I've had some great mentors like yourself, Representative Thomas Massey's another independent Ralph Nader in 2008.
I never met Ross Perot, but what a huge inspiration, Anderson.
And yes, there's been wrongful censoring, stifling of free speech.
But when we unite our nation across the political spectrum, because we recognize there are more ideas that we can agree on than not, and the people want peace and love and compassion.
And that idea is coming soon.
And you have been a huge, huge inspiration, not only from myself, but the thousand or so people that I saw at your 90th birthday party last year in Lake Jackson.
I mean, those leaders are looking for a direction, something to do.
Beyond Partisan Money00:13:23
And the work that I've done has paved the way, and you have been a key to sparking that one.
Enough of that.
But I'm sure.
Mr. Humble One is another reason why you're so loved.
I want to get Daniel involved here.
Daniel, welcome our guest today.
And maybe you have a comment or a question.
Well, I do.
And I'm glad that you're there, Christina.
You're in my seat.
So we still have some bugs left.
You know, when we were chatting before the show, Christina, you told a really interesting story.
You know, and one of the challenges that we have in our current American electoral system is that if you're not in one of the two major parties, you have an absolutely almost insurmountable task of gaining ballot access.
We know from Ross Perot's runs, you know, several decades ago, Pat Buchanan, when he ran on the Reform Party ticket, the so-called minor parties.
Now, you told a really interesting story about ballot access and how that topic got you inspired to start your organization.
I'm sure our viewers and listeners would like to hear that story.
Yes, my father, Jim Tobin, was a huge mentor, inspiration as well.
And he worked for the Federal Reserve for nine years and quit one year shy of getting a lifelong pension.
Why?
because he saw the corruption within the Fed funneling money illegally to support the wars.
Wrong.
And so he started the largest tax fighting organization called National Taxpayers United for 45 years.
My dad passed four years ago, and he ran as a libertarian for governor in 1998 in Illinois.
And I learned at 17 years of age that it took 25,000 signatures for third parties to get on the ballot while it was only 5,000 for Ds and R's.
And while my dad, while my dad was wrongfully knocked off the ballot in 98, in fact, he was recommended by the hearing officer to be placed on the ballot, the state board still wrongfully knocked him off the ballot.
My dad sued the state board of elections directly out of pocket.
It went all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court and he lost.
But Richard Winger, mentor, another mentor of mine of Ballot Access News, called me the silver lining of 98 because I didn't give up.
For the rest of my life now today, I've coordinated millions of signatures to get candidates on the ballot from independent Democrats, Republicans, third parties, libertarians, green constitution, and independent candidates, even RFK Jr. in 2024 for the American Values Super PAT.
So I have seen the hurdles of the flawed electoral system from within, from the rigorous, restrictive ballot access barriers.
When we have an accountable system and members of Congress in office that are not beholden to big money from AIPACT of special interests to the lobbyists, the pharmaceuticals, we're going to see reform happen, like ballot access being the same for everyone, having better voting methods beyond singular vote, which is the worst voting method you can have.
So yes, that is the spark of why free and equal elections started because of my father, Jim Tobin.
Very good.
Go ahead, Daniel.
I was just going to say, Dr. Paul is famous for saying, third party, I would be happy if we just had a second party.
And I think that's very accurate.
And it's a great quote.
How can a third two things, though?
Because even Elon Musk has talked about founding a third party.
It comes up every few years, every few election cycles.
We need another party.
I think that's pretty obvious.
We've talked on the show and Dr. Paul has talked about his career, about how the two parties collude.
And they basically, there's the illusion that they're fighting, but of course they agree on all the big things.
What are the chances for a third party in the U.S. to emerge onto the electoral sphere?
Does it have to start in local elections, state elections, or could there be a large third party that jumps onto the scene and somehow captures people's attention?
Well, despite speaking with Dr. Paul before this interview, and we both agree, political parties don't work.
There's no mention of political parties in the Constitution.
And I have seen firsthand from within the National Libertarian Party, Green Party.
I'll put this in a book one day.
I have seen as the political parties become larger, they inevitably become infiltrated.
So there is a reason why the Gallup poll has said there's 45% of voters are independents.
There are more independent voters than there are Democrats and Republicans.
And so here at Free and Equal Elections, we are igniting an independent movement beyond the political party.
I did talk to G. Edward Griffin right before I got here, the author of The Creature from Jekyll Island.
My father showed me that book when I was 13.
It looked like it was about as high as the ceiling when I was that little.
But G. Edward Griffin taught me and he told me before this interview, we got to have laughter and fun and have a party uniting our nation.
So parties don't work.
And I see third parties.
I see Democrats, Republicans.
I see them all as individuals.
And through technology on a decentralized blockchain ledger, we're going to be able to see those candidates for who they are, who funds them, what they support.
And it will enable the people to keep the accountable candidates in office and not vote for the ones that are not accountable.
And that's the future.
And I agree with Dr. Paul.
Technology is here to stay.
I would say is here to stay.
I agree with them that it's going to do great things and we put everything on a decentralized ledger.
We're going to be able to support technology that's for the betterment of humanity.
And what's not for the betterment of the humanity will fade away.
Very good.
You know, one thing that I observe, and see if I get a comment from you, because I know your belief and conviction about the principles of liberty.
I mean, you talk about it all the time.
And you say, well, this would that narrow people would say, well, that'll narrow it down.
You're just going to be talking to the libertarians because they have these kind of problems.
But the way I see this, this is a broad approach because when you look at it, it's sort of ecumenical, you know, that everybody, whether they're independent, and you bring people together like Nader and Ross Perot and some Republicans and some Democrats, you bring people together on this principle, and you don't have to solve all those other problems.
It's just allowing the system to work better.
And there is a lot of penalty.
And we talked a little bit before, you know, getting on the ballots, one big deal, but we also have a problem sometimes who's counting the boats, you know, because I've been a victim of some of that too.
So it's a big problem, but that's a reflection of human nature.
And as bad as the system may seem and it's not so smooth right now, it's still better than having a one-man dictatorship and some of the stuff that went on in the 20th century that we had to experience.
And I remember World War II and, you know, the Vietnam era and some of this stuff.
So I think that in a way, what you're doing here, there is a broad approach and you bring people together because I've experienced that because I would talk to everybody who had an interest in just telling the truth.
And you do that and you make friends with, why are you, well, they're doing that to my son already.
Why are you supporting the bad people?
You know, just because he's talking to people, you know, and trying to get, you know, a hearing, you know, whether it's in the Congress or in the voting.
But I think what you're doing is a very important issue.
Thank you so much.
And through technology, we're going to resolve all these issues.
We'll be able to have the voting process done the right way.
We'll be able to have ballot, the voting process will be where we can count it properly and there'll be good in technology.
So I agree with everything you said, Dr. Paul.
Very good.
I do.
Daniel, do you have another follow-up?
Yeah, I was going to ask a question about this, Christina.
And this may not be exactly within the purview of your organization, but tangentially, it definitely is.
And it's the issue of money in politics.
I mean, one of the reasons why so-called minor parties or third parties have a difficult time is the onerous task of getting onto ballots, of course, but also just having to raise money in races that are now obscenely, obscenely large.
I mean, we see even in the current administration, when you are a donor and you give $200 million, you basically get to call the shots.
You mentioned Thomas Massey earlier.
You know, there are some people from outside of Kentucky who've put in millions of dollars to see him defeated in the primaries coming up because the current president doesn't like some of the things that he says.
You know, for a third party, having to raise $100 million or more, a billion dollars to run, it's just an impossibility.
I mean, how can we solve the problem of this excessive money in politics?
We're going to solve it by uniting our nation.
As the free and equal elections, I mentioned briefly how we've done the presidential debates.
We've ignited the United We Stand Tour.
And we're going to highlight the money in politics, but it's going to go, money will always be there in politics.
But I foresee through the tour, which I could speak a little bit more on, is I see it going beyond money where people donate their time, where people get engaged, people get involved to support these candidates that are not beholden to the system, beholden to the money and special money interests that I mentioned before, from APAC to pharmaceutical and so on.
What we're seeing with Thomas Massey, what's happening with Massey, whether he knows it or not, I think he knows it.
He's so independent of the political party system.
The millions that is being spent against him by APAC, Adelson, so on through Trump is going to backfire.
And I foresee Mr. Massey and many others, Dr. Paul, you will be invited and you are invited to keynote the upcoming, and we're close to igniting the United We stand for hopefully the spring, this summer, Thomas Massey will be invited to Tucker Carlson, to who at Marjorie Taylor Greene, all-inclusive across the political spectrum, left and right unite.
And we're going to be able to provide a decentralized blockchain voting app that will plug these independent candidates into it and give them the support that they need to run, the tools, the people that can help get them on the ballot.
And we're going to start by replacing most members of Congress, not Thomas Massey, I hope he gets re-elected, but most members of Congress, meaning the ones that are funded by special interests that I mentioned before, with accountable individuals.
And the good of technology through decentralized blockchain, we're going to be able to keep and make sure that these candidates stay accountable.
And if they're not, they'll simply be voted out.
So Congress get ready to be replaced.
It's happening.
You're going to fade away.
You're not serving the people.
I feel once you have compromised, compromising is not an option.
And I have not and will not do that with free and equal elections.
That's why I have the honor of sitting here today with a gentleman here that has never compromised for the, and he is for the people.
And those candidates in office, unfortunately, have compromised and they're going to be peacefully replaced by accountable community leaders.
As we tour across the country, we're going to be asking these community leaders, like how Thomas Massey was involved in his community and the people asked him to run for Congress.
We're going to do that across the country.
And we're going to ask those community leaders to run and we're going to help them win.
That's a pretty good answer, Daniel, don't you think?
Yeah, absolutely.
We need to get rid of Lindsey Graham, please.
He will be fully fade away.
But you talked a little bit about your dad, even now, and I think before we started the program.
But what are your early thoughts?
You know, when what do you think was the earliest time that your dad was a little bit different than the average person and maybe not reading the same books and had an influence on you?
And do you remember the very early years on how it grew in importance in your own mind?
I saw this picture on the wall, my dad holding a megaphone.
I'm like, dad, what's that?
And I think it was like 76.
And there's an interview of Jim Tobin, my dad, with Tom Woods.
He passed four years ago, I may have said.
And in that megaphone, he asked the people not to pay their state income tax.
And I recall in that area, thousands of people showed up and they didn't have to pay the income tax that year.
So those are the first things.
You know, I also was around a stack of petitions of about a million signatures.
What are these stacks of papers?
My dad was spearheading an initiative for term limits, which is another great kind of reform that when we get accountable people into office, Congress first and eventually all levels, we're going to implement those types of reform of term limits.
And then when your term limit out, you can't run for a higher office, you know.
So those were some first moments of my father.
I'm like, whoa, I have a different kind of dad here.
And then the fact that he worked for the Fed for nine years and quit one year.
The Who Will Not Be Fooled Again00:04:01
Who does that?
Who quits one year of getting a lifelong pension?
That's a man that stood for him.
And an influence.
Yes, on me.
How about the young people?
I was impressed and pleased about the young people that came to the rallies and I was pleased about bringing people together because when I go to a liberal campus, they say, you can't do that.
You're a right winger and all this stuff.
And they were sometimes the most exciting.
And have you sensed the people getting interested in what you're doing?
Do you have some young people interested?
Well, you and I, we recently interviewed in Meditation Magazine here, Level Win.
That's Marion Williamson on the front, who will also be a part of the tour.
Great friend.
Jill Stein's in here, Green Party candidate.
And inside the article, we are here.
This has been distributed to over a thousand stores across the country, including Barnes ⁇ Noble and Whole Foods.
And in this quote, you may remember this, Dr. Paul.
This sparked the creation of United We Stand Festival.
When you said, if you can ever bring about revolutionary changes, two things would need to be involved.
Young people would have to be involved, that is, and you would need music.
And so those words I wrote in here struck me deeply and led to the first United We Stand Festival in 2014, a decade later or so.
Here we sit today.
Your words continue guiding our mission as a tour grows nationwide, uniting communities through music, art, and truth to spark a freer, more independent future.
And so we are definitely calling for the supporters.
I mean, the ones who are going to see who will not be fooled again, right?
The who will not be fooled again.
They weren't even fooled in the first place are the Ron Paul revolutionaries.
And so we hope to launch the tour as early as the spring, summer.
We already locked in for the 11th annual or 12th annual.
I forgot what, but I guess it would be 12th annual at Art Basil this December through Family Office Forum.
But man, we would love to launch it this spring at a university in Texas.
And I would be honored.
I'm only going to ask you.
No response needed at this moment, but I would love for you to be our keynote speaker to spark the kickoff for the United We Stand tour across the country in your home state and my home state too.
I was born in your district.
What are the odds?
You had a good start.
Yes, I did.
I wish you were my doctor.
That's right.
I think that, you know, getting the young people out and the music is very important.
But then that led to a couple of requests.
And I think somebody kiddingly, even today, said something, are you going to sing?
But that was my promise.
I had to swear I would never do the singing.
If I did, it would be very quiet.
But that's why I really appreciate the music.
Yeah, all music that is decent presented.
So I can admire and enjoy music.
At the same time, I know my limitations.
But listening is a lot of fun too.
Well, I would love to hear your voice.
I hear you're a Sinatra fan.
I grew up with the Rat Pack poster.
I don't think so.
Who's in that?
Frank Sinatra?
Yeah, that.
I never met him.
Oh, no.
No.
I have his soft music.
When I need something in my car and I'm driving in traffic, I don't mind listening to Frank Sinatra.
Sometimes I'm like, fly me to the moon.
What's going on in the world?
Do you have one of the United We Stand artists, a friend who has been more heavily involved in the movement than I can say for most artists I've seen a decade deep?
So he'll be performing a song, We Rise Together.
It's one of my favorite songs.
Whenever I feel a little stuck, I listen to it.
And other music, it keeps me going.
So he'll be performing a separate cutout interview.
Thank You For Being Here00:03:55
I'm glad to have him.
What goes along with this is I think that, you know, I tell people the truth, which is not always wonderful.
And I spent a lot of time on that, but I said there are answers to it.
And but when you come together, when a crowd comes together, they seem to enjoy themselves.
It's not because of me, but they enjoy themselves.
And that is what that is what I advise.
I said, it's great to see people come together and you should have fun doing this because we're not going to solve all the problems tomorrow, but it should be fun working on the problem and seeing improvement because I sort of think that's what life is all about.
Because there's no magic wand to have everything fixed perfectly.
I think life is all about challenges.
And that's why it's best we have enjoyment.
And I think whether it were the rallies we have or organizations, they seem to enjoy themselves.
So if a crowd enjoyed themselves, help me enjoy it too.
Well, we definitely need a lot more joy and compassion and love.
Remember, love is greater than fear.
Remember, when times are tough, there are more of us than there are of those few people in office that don't represent the majority of the people.
And there's a lot going on in the world.
I've got to say it.
I'm in Israel and Gaza and Venezuela and now Iran and the history we've learned.
And as I listened to the Ron Paul Liberty Report with you and Daniel McAdams and so grateful for your knowledge and research, Iraq, Afghanistan, violence is not the answer, no matter.
One person dying for is not okay.
And here at Free and Equal Elections, I foresee us uniting across the United States, across the world.
The whole world is watching the United States of America.
And when we rise together, when we rise together and we rise up here in America, the whole world will follow.
And it's going to be a beautiful thing.
Dr. Paul, it's time to have some fun, right?
Daniel, if you have a comment, we're going to close down here now in a second to help close the program.
Yeah, I would just say, Dr. Paul, I don't want to preempt you, but if Christina, if you'd let people know how they can find your organization, how they can get involved, what they can do to help you out, because we obviously want this tour to be successful.
Thank you.
You know, Dr. Paul, you know, you and your words and support towards the tour will go further than anything.
You can go to freeandequal.org, free ANDEQA.org, and you can see the information.
Sign up for the tour today as we are on the cusp of raising.
We've raised over a million in full.
I'll put it on a decentralized ledger in the future.
People can see where all their donations go.
Over a million for our presidential debates in 2024, which is astronomical for a nonprofit organization.
And so each stop of this tour is going to cost upwards of a quarter of a million, half a million to do it right.
And we have the team, the production to knock it out of the ballpark and hit the masses overnight because when that idea comes, nothing, nothing will get in its way.
I want to thank you very much for being here.
And I will remind our viewers, freeandequalelection.com.
And hopefully that is of help to you.
And thank you for being here today.
Freeandequal.org.
Yes.
Thank you for having me, Dr. Paul.
Very good.
And I want to thank all our viewers for tuning into today.