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July 18, 2025 - Ron Paul Liberty Report
26:21
Neither Trump, Nor Powell, Know What Interest Rates Should Be End the Fed

Peppered within this week's headlines was President Trump's on-again, off-again firing of Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. The key variable that is never mentioned, however, is that neither Trump, nor Powell have any idea what interest rates should be. Powell's job shouldn't exist in the first place. Markets determine prices; not the president, and not something called a "Federal Reserve Chairman."

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Talking Birch Gold Today 00:03:03
Hello, everybody, and thank you for tuning in to the Liberty Report.
With us today, we have Chris Rossini, our co-host.
Chris, welcome to the program.
Great to be with you, Dr. Paul.
Good.
You know, Friday, we frequently target in economic events, especially Federal Reserve material.
We'll do that again today because we're going to be talking more in depth about, you know, the battle that continues to go on and figuring out what's going to happen to Powell.
He looked like he was going to get fired, but I think the president might have changed his mind or something.
So that's in pause.
But we will be talking a little bit about that.
And I might bring up today the subject of cryptocurrencies because it looks like there's a lot of people that would like to use that almost equivalent to the dollar.
And a lot of bills were being passed.
I'm going to make a comments on that.
But the whole issue of monetary policy was the ideas that prompted me to at least stick my nose out and start talking about monetary policy way back in 1971, because that was when the United States went off the gold standard.
And gold then went from the $35 an ounce up to now more than $3,000 an ounce.
So very significant.
It's also one of the reasons why we partner with Birch Gold Group, because that's what they do.
They deal in investments and economic matters around monetary things and especially gold.
So they do give out advice and they have programs.
But if you want to get more information from Birch Gold, you can by looking at the number on the screen and you text Ron 989898, they will send you some materials.
There'll be no charge with this, but it will explain some of the ways that you might be able to take bullion gold and put it in an IRA fund.
Because right now, the rigor IRAs, you don't put it in the fund.
So this is a method that has been offered to the people who want to use it for gold.
So if you're interested in that and you're not doing it yet, you can write to or text Birch Gold at just Ron at 989898 and you'll reach Birch Gold and they will send you some material.
And that will help you get started and learn more about the very important issue is money as gold as money, which we've been talking about for a long time, Chris.
And I think we're going to be alluding to gold today and the fact that, you know, what we want to talk about is, you know, the interest rates.
That's a thing that I've been harping on for a long time.
One reason why you don't want regulation.
Cracks In The System 00:04:12
They never argue, well, shouldn't we follow the Constitution or should we hire just better manager that Powell's not doing so good according to the president?
So the president wants another one and that's going to solve the problem.
And we'll talk about that, why that's a fool's errand.
It's not going to work, but it's been tried before, and it's the system that is a problem.
And Chris, there's no doubt about it.
The system has been around a long time, but there are cracks in the system.
And when you see that their mandate was for sound economic policy and a steady dollar, and when you look at what's going on right now, it certainly didn't do much to the huge debt.
And the huge debt is related to our dollar because it gets monetized.
And we find out that the middle class gets punished the most when they devalue the currency.
So, Chris, it's something that we need to filter out the best we can.
And what we think should happen to the Federal Reserve and who we think should be appointed, you know, the chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Yeah, that's right, Dr. Paul.
Yeah, this week, Trump's on again, off again, firing a Powell.
Can he even do that?
I don't know.
I don't know the rules that these people set for themselves.
But in any case, Powell's job shouldn't exist anyway because interest rates should be set in the marketplace, not by a group of people or the president.
And we know this just in our daily lives.
I mean, just think of if you own shares of Tesla, I looked right before this show.
They're trading around $327, you know, and it moves up and down all day long.
Prices change.
You could go buy.
You could sell shares if you have them.
There's always a market there, and the market sets the price.
And it's not chaos.
It's not one minute it's $1,000 a share, and the next minute it's $1 a share.
The market is very orderly.
The market moves quickly.
It can move slowly, but it is orderly in all cases.
So imagine now, we know this in our daily lives.
If they came up with a Tesla Reserve Board and they say we are going to be the ones that are going to be price fixing, this is how much Tesla shares can be.
I mean, it would be a ridiculous idea, and nobody would even go for it.
And then you'd have the president saying, no, no, no, this is what the price of Tesla shares would be.
I mean, it's absurd, yet this is how our monetary system works.
It's absurd.
The Fed should not exist.
There should be no ideas of firing Powell, keeping Powell.
He shouldn't have this job.
He should go get another job.
But this is how it is, and it's messed up.
That's why our system is so messed up.
So the solution is not who's running the Fed, but that the market should be setting interest rates, just like the market sets the price of shares of Tesla.
I think most economists now, more so than ever, have come together over the many, many years, not advocating wage and price controls.
It's been done even in my lifetime.
I remember what wage and price controls did in World War II.
And I remember what happened in the Korea War.
We had them at that time.
But the price controls and the manipulation of wages, the indirect control of the so-called price to help one industry over the other.
That is a more sophisticated way of regulating prices, but it's still the same thing and causes the same problem because they don't know what it is.
And they're arrogant, is what they are.
The people who think we only need to change the head of the Federal Reserve, and this person will know how to manage the money supply and guarantee the value of the currency and watch so there's no price inflation and make sure that the interest rates are steady and helps the economy.
Well, that is a dream because it doesn't work.
Debt Crisis Unfolding 00:07:40
And right now we're in a rocky place where the talk is.
And the current president we have, Trump, he's been more outspoken.
I'm sure the presidents have had a lot of conversations and insinuating what the Fed ought to do.
And they've had influence, but it's usually more subtle, more gentlemanly.
It's not out in the open.
But Trump has been out in the open for a long time.
He said those interest rates have to come down.
And he talks about blowing on 3%.
And if he's looking at the overnight rates, that's, I think, around 4%.
So he says that he's essentially taking them down dramatically.
And one of the biggest motivations for that is because he's facing the payment because the budget has not shrunk, no matter what you hear.
The budget is still going up, and we're borrowing money, and we have to do that because not enough people will buy the debt because it's not a good investment, but they have to do something about it.
So who buys it?
And this is traditional.
It's usually not totally out of control, which I think is now happening because the debt is so big and it's going to get much bigger.
And the people are going to get more reluctant because yesterday I mentioned that the dollar as a basket of currency with our trading partners is down 10% here in the last six months or so.
So that means that, you know, to pay this debt down, we have to print more money, which in a way, ironically, it does diminish the debt in real terms.
Because if you dilute the money supply and a dollar's worth of less, the government gets to pay off the debt.
That's why there always will be money out there for Social Security and whatnot, because they'll just send money that has less value.
But eventually that is not workable and the people give up.
And right now, what's happening is less people around the world want to use the dollar, even though the competition isn't that tough.
You know, it's hard to believe that the Euro can overtake the dollar in a short period of time.
But I think that there's signs that there's something big going on.
And when they look at the size of that deficit and look at the exponential curve that's on, and then you look at the budget direct debate going on in Washington, yeah, and they said that they actually cut a real cut, this was not fake, $9 billion.
Well, boy, that sounds tremendous.
That's good.
I'm glad they did it.
And yeah, yet at the same time, they lower that.
But that doesn't help much or convey confidence to the people who think $36, $37 trillion of debt.
Everybody knows that's not going to be paid.
And even with this little bit of activity, you know, under Doge and what this bill they just passed happened.
Now, a lot of people got very angry over that.
And I compare it to what happens, the difficulty in getting somebody off drugs.
If somebody's addicted to heroin and you just say, you've had enough, done for it.
We'll just stop it.
That is really a dangerous medical thing to do.
But that's what would happen if we did it in a serious manner.
And it's sad because that means you want to continue what we have.
Well, there's no easy question on it.
As far as I'm concerned, the people would never allow it.
They're never going to stop sending the checks out.
So it's just a matter of how are you going to adapt.
And people have adapted.
Now, just look, the gold has gone up, indicating that we have serious problems.
Over $3,000 and rising and things are still working.
So that is going to continue.
But I think this argument that, well, we just need a new Federal Reserve Board chairman.
Now, Chris is absolutely right.
They can't know the answer to this.
They don't know what the interest rates would be.
The whole purpose of the interest rate and prices is to tell the businessman and the investor what to do.
So, if you eliminate the most important information, then you end up with a mess.
And then you end up with a lot of mistakes.
Then you end up with a lot of debt.
And then you end up with these mistakes that turn into bad investment.
Then you end up with the absolute necessity by free market principles that there will have to be a correction.
And that's what they're hoping and praying they can do.
And they call it a soft landing.
And right now, most a lot of people have bought into this soft landing, except I think there's a lot of people out there that's having a bumping landing and they're having trouble.
And I think that's going to continue.
And that's why we at the campaign here for is to get people to think about sound money that would prevent these problems.
I've always said it's easy for our country to get involved in wars and very hard to get out of them.
And since World War II, if we get into a war, even if it's indirect by just financing the war, these wars and efforts and the killing goes on for 20 years.
There's been several episodes of that, and our policies haven't changed.
Just as our policies need to be changed in foreign policy, our policies need to be changed in fiscal policy and especially concentrate on what we need to do about the money.
And I think this is a good time for us to discuss, and everybody discuss what is this Federal Reserve Board chairman?
Why are they doing things in secret?
You know, this is the kind of thing that has to happen because when the time comes when we have to change our way, the more people that understand it, the better off we'll all be.
Yeah, that's right, Dr. Paul.
And when you have price fixers, they fix prices for their own benefit.
So the Fed fixes prices for who?
For the big banks.
That's what the Fed is, a big cartel of banks.
So their number one priority is the banks.
Not all banks, the biggest banks.
Some banks are allowed to fail.
Some banks, as we remember from TARP back in 2008, no, everybody's got to bail them out.
You're not allowed to let them fail.
You don't want the world to end, do you?
That's the lines they give us.
So that's what the Fed, that's who they price fix for, the biggest banks.
Now, the president, on the other side, he wants a price fix for his own administration.
He wants more inflation.
He wants lower rates.
He wants to give the perception that things are in a bubble.
And look at this prosperity that I'm creating, just like the dot-com bubble, the housing bubble.
It's like pumping people full of alcohol.
It's an artificial high, but it's artificial.
And that's what the president wants.
He doesn't care because in the three and a half years, he'll be gone.
He'll be able to say, look at the prosperity that I created with those low interest rates, the bubbles.
And then, you know, the crash happens and everybody suffers because it was just, it was a fake.
So this is why they want to manipulate rates.
The Fed for the big banks, the president for his administration, and everybody else, you know, gets the short end of the stick.
Manipulating Perceptions 00:06:27
We don't need this stuff.
We can live without it.
We lived without it until 1913.
It's been an albatross around our necks.
But, you know, a day will come where they're not going to be able to control things anymore.
That's what happens with central planners.
And nothing that they do will be able to help.
We want to avoid that.
We don't want a big catastrophe, but they're hell-bent on keeping their system going.
Very good.
You know, yesterday, this week, three major bills were passed dealing with cryptocurrencies.
Cryptocurrencies and the technology, I have deep respect for what is happening there, but I've never been convinced that it's a good alternative for the breakdown of the gold standard.
But some people still believe so.
And when it was presented, I was really excited about it because the cryptocurrencies would be more secretive.
It could be autonomous.
People have to know everything that you're doing.
You didn't have to go through the banks.
And this was also guided by transparency.
At the same time, there'd be a lot of transparency so that everybody knew what was going on.
Well, that sounds like a mixed bag.
And of course, there were some that recognized that, you know, it wouldn't take long.
And it's already happened.
The IRS knows exactly what's going on.
But the bills yesterday didn't give me any encouragement to move in the direction that I helped inspire.
And that is an alternative currency and let the people choose, no fraud, and get it out of the hands of the government.
But there's one bill I'm going to quote a statement on it.
It was called the Clarity Act.
The Clarity Act helps us get there by adding consumer protection into law and setting clear guidelines for digital assets.
It establishes guide rails for federal agencies who have too often stepped outside their authority.
I keep wondering, don't we have regulations?
Don't they outstep their authority all the time?
But they're saying now that, well, with the Spipcoin, we're starting this, and the IRS is involved.
The SEC is involved, Commodity Exchange Trading Commission is involved.
This bill, and then their hope is these bills will help establish a strong pro-growth framework that gives investors, innovators, certainty that they will bring digital assets back to the U.S.
And see, this whole thing that we have to be in charge, not in a natural way.
You know, it could be argued that the dollar became a reserve currency of the world because of the events of World War II and why we were spared so much damage.
We still had a gold standard, and that was a more natural way.
But there's a desire now for us not to lose that.
If you recognize that the gold standard is being challenged, we have to make sure that our country is in charge of the cryptocurrencies.
And the cryptocurrencies, the main goal of our government should be to make sure that people can use it.
And if they do not commit fraud, nobody should bother them.
But I don't think it's going in that direction.
And but there are, you know, this bill establishes a strong pro-growth framework that gives them a sound area where they can have control and growth.
I, Chris, I just don't believe that is the answer.
And yet, a lot of people say, well, are you for or against these cryptocurrencies?
I'm for alternative currencies.
I want the people to decide because that's the way it's been for thousands of years.
One person that I read a lot because he was known to really write in a diligent way, and that's Aristotle.
It was astounding how well he understood it.
I'll tell you what, if he were alive, I'd say I'd take a chance with him at the Federal Reserve.
But that's not there.
But that tells you how long this issue has been going on.
And indirectly, the benefits that come from it is sort of like the benefits you get with a drug.
You feel good when you're taking the drug.
And you can make the manipulation can make certain groups.
And Chris, Chris made a good point that sometimes it's designed to help the rich.
And other people believe it's helped them more than they realize.
They say, well, we have to have the checks, but don't let the prices go up.
So it gets into no answer whatsoever.
And I think it has all to do with defining the unit of account.
And we have failed to do that.
But the founders were explicit on that, that there should be a unit of account and you could define it.
But we're a long way from that, but that's something we should always set a goal for.
That's fantastic, Dr. Paul.
I will finish up with my closing thoughts.
One other thing about Trump was a little weird this week.
He said that he was surprised that Powell was ever appointed to begin with.
And Trump was the one that appointed Powell.
So that was a little strange.
How do you forget something like that?
The Fed chairman that you appointed.
So that happened.
But I'd like to close by mentioning our conference.
We're about a month away.
We're all looking forward to it.
It's coming.
Daniel mentions it often.
I want to mention it too myself because I go to the conferences and it's great meeting everyone.
Our speakers are fantastic.
But it's also great to meet people because, you know, we look at cameras for our job.
So to meet people, and you guys come from all over the country, sometimes from other countries, which is incredible.
So please, if you can make it, we're going to put a link in the description.
It'd be great to meet you.
Come say hi to us.
We're all there.
You can meet our speakers too.
We have a great lineup, as usual.
Every year we have great lineups.
So look for the tickets in the description, and I hope to see you there.
Very good.
You know, I'm going to finish off with another comment about cryptocurrencies because there was another bill passed yesterday.
Regulating Digital Currencies 00:04:55
And this is one that's a mixed bag because I'd have to stop and think about it.
Should I vote for this or shouldn't I vote for it?
Because it says the House also passed the Anti-Central Bank Digital Currency Act, which prohibits the Federal Reserve from issuing a U.S. central bank digital currency.
Certainly, I support that.
But why are we needing to write this?
You know, it's sort of writing a law.
You can't have paper money anymore.
Well, the government, they have no authority to do it.
You know, the unit of account has been defined.
But the point is, I think it's a good idea.
I think it would be horrible if the central bank gets this special attention and permission.
I don't think it's going to do any good.
I'm not optimistic enough for that.
But it seems like that should be allowed.
But that's not the way we're supposed to do it.
If you want to have a central bank and a digital currency, what you want to do it is under free market principles.
And the digital currency started that way.
And there was a lot of optimism that it would remain anonymous and transparent, and we could opt out of the banking system.
And I imagine a few thought maybe they wouldn't have to pay taxes.
And here, once again, we've been working hard, and there's been states now to try to get rid of taxes on money.
So if you buy and sell gold coins, a bunch of the states still tax a sales tax and a capital gains tax as if it's a commodity not ready to money.
But you can't tax a dollar, you know, when it changes its value.
So it's something that has been there.
And I think that this is so important that people realize that something could develop in a free market, but it should be handled like no fraud, no theft.
And you could have it because I think the technology, AI, sounds to me, I don't understand most of that or any other things on how all the computers work.
But I recognize that there's a lot of benefits there.
But I also recognize the benefit there's a lot of evil out there.
And I would say that our economic system, especially our monetary system, which was devised to be something honest and upfront, and you had to have something convertible.
Now they say, well, the people who promote these things say you have to have reserves.
We're going to regulate you, and you have to have reserves to back up your cryptocurrency.
What are they going to back it up with?
I imagine they would say, well, we'll have to use some dollars to back it up, you know, to convey some confidence.
But would that mean the dollar would always be something we could trust?
So that's the reason I look at some of these details and sorting it out: that the technology is great and technology that is being understood in the currency effort, this blockchain technology.
It sounds to me like it's wonderful and people ought to use it.
But we ought to have some general rules, no cheating, and no lying and no fraud, and let the people at it and let them use it and not allow the government to get the monopoly control.
I'm fearful that some of this activity on these recent bills are meaningful, that are putting it right up front and just throwing at the government, here, regulators, do this, and inviting more regulation, thinking that they can always get the regulations to favor them.
Well, it doesn't work that way.
You change administrations and they change the people that they're protecting.
And I think a little bit of that is going on.
I think Chris sort of mentioned that the banks, you know, central banks, do they have big banks?
Yeah, they happen to do that.
So that's why I don't have a lot of confidence in that.
But anyway, it's a big issue.
I find it very interesting and it's very important.
I lament the fact that there's a lot of people who do benefit, don't deserve it.
And a lot of the people who most are vulnerable and get the punishment is the middle class and the poor, because they're the ones that end up with the devalued currency, which means high prices that prices and wage controls can't, cannot help them.
So that is one downside of that.
But anyway, I think it's fascinating, but I don't think that they're going to be immediately explaining the commodity standard in our universities once again and relating that to what the founders intended.
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