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June 13, 2023 - Ron Paul Liberty Report
27:23
A Life Sentence For Donald Trump?

As former President Donald faces arraignment today, the charges against him keep piling up. If convicted of all charges, he faces 400 years in prison. But what may be even more concerning to Trump and his supporters is the fact - pointed out by Constitutional Law Professor Jonathan Turley - that even one single conviction for Trump means effectively a life sentence in prison.

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Indictment And Its Implications 00:15:17
Hello, everybody, and thank you for tuning in to the Liberty Report.
With us today is Daniel Mick Adams, our co-host.
Daniel, good to see you today.
How are you this morning, Dr. Paul?
Well, I have a little laryngitis that I woke up with, so be prepared.
Are you yelling at the TV all day?
You have to be on the ball to finish my sentences.
But we want to talk about a subject that's been in the news, and you know what?
I think it's going to be in the news for a long time.
It has to do with first indictment and the arraignment and the trials and the imprisonments that could come.
And we had a friend of ours on Fox this weekend that sort of stirred the pot a bit because we happened to know the individual doing the saying and wrote the article and was on Fox, and that's our friend Jonathan Turley.
And Jonathan Turley, we remember him well from the Liberty Committee because when we were doing our presidential campaigns, Kent Snyder, no longer with us, sadly, but got hold of Jonathan and got Jonathan interested.
And we were just starting, it was after, I think, the first campaign, starting that little voluntary committee which was meant to meet a couple friends.
We thought we'd have two or three come.
But it turned out to be a regular function, some days better than others, but once a week the members would come together, and one thing they knew, we could have a discussion of the most important events, and there was no media.
And you know what?
We did have libertarian conservatives, but we had some others too that were just honestly interested in this.
But the reason I mentioned that is Jonathan came a couple times there.
That's how we got to know him.
But after I left Congress, you know, somebody by the name of Daniel got this thing called Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.
And of course, Jonathan's name came up, and he was to a couple of our conferences.
He's spoken at a couple of our conferences.
Yeah, he's always great.
But now he wrote this article that it's not complex, but in a way, it was a little scary because one thing we've been able to do is if Jonathan says it and he's citing law, it's going to be difficult for him to make a mistake.
And that's why he's respected because people can recognize he's going to tell us the truth.
But sometimes the truth hurts.
And at least he invited people on this weekend and in his statement to don't get overconfident because he thinks this is serious stuff.
With all the garbage and all the hate thrown at Trump, it seems to me that this was the strongest warning that he has made.
So in a way, I would think, how could this be positive?
Maybe his strategy is to wake up the Republicans.
And it looks like they can't depend on the FBI coming clean.
And he didn't make this suggestion, but I think maybe a good consequence would be that since you can't depend on the Department of Justice and everybody coming clean, maybe this is just to stir up the Republicans, stir up the base, because a lot of things are won, just as we always note.
The lockdown, the emphasis on the lockdown, was done in the public arena.
And His strategy is for him, I'm sure, just laying it out to us.
But I kept thinking, well, one thing that might happen, it might serve as an incentive because, quite frankly, I didn't know it was that serious.
I keep saying, well, this is just garbage.
Everybody knows it.
And these are silly judges doing things and district attorneys like, oh, let's take a case that was thrown out in New York and turn it for a minor faction and make a criminal case out of it all.
So that kind of stuff happened.
So anyway, this was, I think, I took this as a warning that they're playing tough.
And some of these things can't be ignored because it's just utterly amazing what Trump has put up with and tolerated psychologically and physically and mentally.
But so far, it doesn't seem to have made it available to the Democrats to declare victory.
And we'll see today.
We might see a big event today.
Trump might even raise more money today for all we know.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
And here's what we're talking about.
I think he was on Fox News and he mentioned this, if we can put that first one up.
And it really is a sobering thought because the headline of The Hill is, Fox News is Turley.
Trump could face, quote, terminal sentence if Department of Justice proves even one count.
And here's this quote: if we can put the next one on.
It's definitely something to think about.
Here's Turley.
The problem is he's got to run the table.
He's 76 years old.
All the government has to do is stick the landing on one count, and he could have a terminal sentence.
You're talking about crimes that have a 10 or 20-year period as a maximum.
So he's making the very practical point that age 76, if you are convicted and you are sentenced to 20 years, more than likely, now it's not certain, but more than likely, you'll be spending the rest of your life behind bars for these boxes of documents.
And you know, one big discussion today, now after the arrangement, will be who will Trump's attorneys be?
Who will the judge be?
So there's a lot of decisions made.
But I would think from just the history of how these cases go, the defense will probably, you know, work it out where it's slow going.
And there was a well-known politician in Texas that was convicted, and he appealed, and the appeal lasted about three years, and it was held out.
And at the end of three years, nobody even knew about the case.
And they ruled that they reversed the thing, and he was innocent after all that time.
So you don't know what will happen.
But I suspect that the attorneys that he gets and has already will see the advantage of delaying things that possibly can by just doing the old-fashioned thing is trying to sort out the truth.
Yeah.
Well, here's an interesting article that we saw in Zero Hedge because, as you say, this afternoon is the arraignment of Trump.
And then he's going to go to a fundraise after that.
So he's capitalizing on it.
But if you can put this next one up.
So crowds are gathering in Miami ahead of Trump's arrangement in the classified documents case.
He expected to plead not guilty to 37 counts in connection with claims that he mishandled classified documents.
Now go to the next one.
This will catch your attention.
And we were wrong yesterday, I will admit.
We thought he was going to carry a 100-year prison term if convicted on all charges.
That was a mistake.
Offenses will carry a maximum of 400 years in prison if convicted on all charges.
So these are very serious.
As you say, Jonathan Turley says these should be taken very seriously.
He's read the document, the indictment.
He said there are very serious things in it.
So we're looking at 400 years in prison.
Now I found an interesting clip of Tulsi Gabbard, who's also a friend of ours, and she was on recently where she made a comment on what she thinks this whole thing of a sitting president seeking his Justice Department on a challenger.
Let's listen to what Tulsi has to say.
We can play this whole clip.
It's an interesting clip when you think about Tulsi's background and her transformation.
Here we go.
Here we go.
We are here today facing an unprecedented moment where a sitting president of the United States has taken action abusing his power to direct the federal government and justice system to be used against his major political opponent in the midst of a presidential campaign, charging him with multiple crimes with an election right around the corner.
This is not something that should happen in the United States of America.
And it could be the final nail in the coffin of our democracy.
I think the key takeaway from what Tulsi says is when she points out we are in the middle of a presidential campaign.
We're doing this.
Yes, and there's not a good precedent that you can do whatever you want when you're in the middle of a campaign.
People become suspicious.
But we live in different times, different than ever before, and the judicial system is weaker than ever.
The judicial system, in many ways, doesn't exist.
And, you know, the problem with me making that statement is that it's a prevailing attitude of how things work and a general attitude, but it doesn't mean that nobody got a fair shot in a trial.
So who knows what?
There are exceptions, but there has to be a lot of work.
And no matter what they say, public opinion is a big deal.
And that's where Trump excels.
So that sort of evens the two groups up because Trump has the advantage of knowing how to talk to people.
He come across more truthful than the others.
And this is amazing, the opposition to Trump.
Basically, it's the Democratic Party and the close allies and the people who benefit, probably the military industrial complex and others, because Trump was willing to challenge some of those issues.
So there's the Democratic Party, and they're united.
They're together.
They're together, but they're also on the side, I think, on the wrong side of the issue.
And they do too much lying, and they're starting to get caught up in it because there's been some exposure of the FBI.
I think people now, if you did polling two years ago about the FBI and now, I would bet the polling has shown a decrease in favorability for the FBI.
But then there's another group that has joined, which is a little bit more difficult to handle, but it's a group of Republicans that are so jealous they can't stand it.
How could a guy like this that blurts out whatever he thinks is the answer, you know, and then win the election, he probably, you know, there's more and more evidence that's cropping up that maybe he won that second election as well because the evidence is still there.
And of course, it can be used against you.
Oh, you're a conspiracy party.
That's over and done with.
We don't want to know the truth about how many ballots were cast.
We don't want to have a recount.
So with the Democratic Party and the Republicans and the diehards that are sour grapes, but I think ultimately ends up that both sides that really motivates both sides, I mean, of the Republicans that are against Trump and the Democrat.
The motivation there is just pure unadulterated hate.
Yeah.
I think you make an important point about public opinion.
And in fact, this next clip is an article written by Jonathan Turley himself yesterday.
This is Jonathan Turley Day on the Liberty Report.
But he points out a very important component to this.
Now, everyone would like to think that it's purely about the law, but it's also about public opinion.
This article is called DOJ Fatigue: Special Counsel Smith Singing to an Empty Room.
And he points out that a new poll shows that less than a majority of citizens believe Trump was correctly charged.
An ABC Ipsos poll found that only 48% of Americans think that Trump was rightfully charged.
And he goes on to point out that while he does think it's a very strong case, and you've said this yourself, some of the things that are mentioned in the indictment appear to be damning.
But he also says the initial indictment, that first day of the indictment, things always look a lot more dire than after it's been answered.
But here are a couple of other factors, Dr. Paul.
If you can go to the next one.
Now, he brings in the issue of the perception, as you just pointed out too, of the FBI.
And he says, the problem for the Justice Department is that it's made itself unbelievable in the eyes of many in the public.
After years of overt bias and targeting of Trump, polls show that the majority of Americans view the FBI as a politically compromised organization.
That's an important wildcard in the whole situation.
And the next one is, too, if you can put the next one up from his same column.
He also says this indictment is likely to do better in a court of law than it does in the court of public opinion.
Just as many have Trump fatigue, many also have DOJ, Department of Justice fatigue.
This is the third consecutive election in which Trump is being hounded by allegations of crimes.
It was immediately preceded by a clear political prosecution in New York State.
In other words, the Department of Justice may have long ago lost the room for this production.
So two important factors.
It sort of fits into my general theme of the last couple years: is that people have recognized and started moving in the direction of endorsing the principle of nihilism.
Nobody believes anything.
They don't tell the truth.
And they don't feel badly about it because it's something that is just realistic.
If you don't know the truth, we make up the truth.
But you know, the first time I ever heard that statement, I was probably still in high school because it was during the Cold War and the Soviets were all over the place.
And it was, it dawned on me because somebody made mention that how do they know truth?
Well, there has to be somebody that defines it, but I wonder what this is.
I'm interested in that.
Oh, it's the political party.
I don't know who the final answer is here, but it's political.
Yeah, it's definitely political.
Well, here's something else that's interesting about this, and this is something that you predicted yesterday.
This is a new tracking poll that tends to confirm what you have suggested, which is that far from hurting Trump, this is actually going to help him.
Now, this was updated on June 13th, which is today.
From Morning Consult, it says, tracking the 2024 Republican primary, Trump's lead increases following federal indictment.
Let's look at that chart coming up next.
Trump, compared to his closest rival, Ron DeSantis, it's massive.
Trump's Unexpected Boost 00:05:26
59% preferred Trump to only 19% for DeSantis.
Everyone else down there is virtually in single digits.
Nobody wants them.
Nobody's going to vote for them.
So Trump's lead is massive.
And go to the next one here.
It's a key takeaway from this morning consult.
Nearly three in five potential Republican primary voters backed Trump for the party's 2024 nomination, up from 55% last week.
So he's gained 4% after the indictment.
And here's the thing, Dr. Paul, which is strange.
You could have a situation.
Now, it's probably because of timing.
You pointed that out earlier, is unlikely.
You could have a situation where President Trump is running for president from prison, which is interesting.
And as you know, the Constitution doesn't have anything barring you.
If you have a criminal record for running for the president, the Constitution is very specific what the requirements are for running for president.
So you could have this crazy scenario where Trump is running for president from prison.
He's elected from prison and he pardons himself as president in prison.
That seems to be the definition of a crazy banana republic.
Let's hope a lot of people wake up and see that.
You know, during one of our campaigns, the first one, I think it's seven, they hit me pretty hard on foreign policy.
I think you remember that.
A little bit.
Because it sort of was, you know, taking the non-interventionist position we shouldn't be over there fighting those wars, which was the conventional wisdom was, well, that's not the position of the Republic of Arts.
And, you know, and I received all the booze and everything like that.
And I was just a, I don't know what's going on here.
But following up, there was a time, a money bomb thing, which was started spontaneously by the grassroots.
And at the time, it was huge.
And there were people saying, well, this sets the record for one night of fundraising, you know, this sort of thing.
And I don't know whether that was true or not, but at least people came around to saying it.
Somebody was quoting that the other day, which they ought to be careful because they might not be right anymore because that was before the inflation.
But I think probably what might happen today is Trump is going to have a money bomb, maybe a nuclear bomb, raising money.
And it isn't so much that, you know, Trump is our libertarian hero.
No, no, no.
But we'd just like to have a few bits of input on his appointments.
Something like that.
We ought to have a committee for that.
That would be the money bomb.
So it is something that tonight we might find out exactly.
But you know what?
I don't know what will the Democrats think in their own mind.
We didn't know there were that many crazy people.
Why aren't they believing our lies?
So it's a little bit silly.
People vote with their money, and they may well do that.
That's the market.
That's democracy.
And there was one article I read, I think it was from ABC News.
Professor Jessica Levinson from Loyola Law School pointed out that if convicted of a felony, Trump may not be able to vote.
So he may actually be in prison.
He may be elected president, but not able to vote for himself.
So it's a weird, weird situation right now.
I'm going to move on to some quick little thing if you're ready.
And I just want to do a little update in pictures on the counteroffensive in Ukraine.
Now, I will remind you the first picture.
Remember this from a few months ago?
Free the leopards.
Give us leopard tanks, Ukrainians said to the Germans.
Give us the leopards and we'll do the rest.
So Germany, after some hesitation, said, okay, you can have some leopards.
And let's look at the next one.
This is going to be a game changer for Ukraine.
Here they are in the stadium.
Thank you.
We have the leopards.
Ukrainians thanked Germany for leopard tanks during the German-Ukraine football match.
And this is earlier on.
Thank you for the leopards.
Well, let's look at the next one.
Here's Forbes magazine.
The Ukrainian army has already lost half of its unique Leopard 2R breaching vehicles.
They've already lost half of them in these early days of the counteroffensive.
If you do a picture, the next one here are the leopards.
The leopards do not look like they're in good shape out on the field.
So what does Germany, or what does Ukraine do?
Let's go to the next one.
Ukraine says, we need more leopards.
So they're back to begging for more leopards.
So it's just one way of saying that all of these promises of wonder weapons, when they are delivered, they don't automatically change things.
And we know that they've lost, I think, also half or nearly half all the Bradleys that we sent.
There was an article out yesterday or the day before dealing with U.S. policy, how it's changed, because we got involved even up to all those wars we tried to stop in the early part of this century, was to keep our troops home and keep them out and keep the troops from being killed.
But now that policy, they've listened to it.
The policy now is we know how to run the war and we know how to victimize our allies.
We could send them in to test our weapons.
And it reminds me of the term that they use when they're doing things like this, fighting senseless war, the soldiers that die, it's called cannon fodder.
Sick And Sad 00:04:01
It's so sick and so sad.
But then again, the worst part is the patriotism is so driven that the parents say, well, he's a patriotic soldier and all this.
And the leaders, that's how they stir them up.
The patriotism at the time going on now, it's Ukrainian patriotism and saving the world.
So it's to me sad, but it's so sad why the people go along with it.
You know, the 18 and 20 year old.
Finally, it was that group of people, though, that said, enough is enough when it came to Vietnam.
Yeah, we won't go.
But the sad part to me is, why does it take that long to wake up?
We have enough information to look at this and think seriously about changing the policy.
That, of course, is the motivation that you have had and I share it, was to have the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity because we think that there is a natural instinct for that and they have to be deceived by it.
And if you can institutionalize a philosophy of nihilism that you don't have to worry about patriotism or anything like that, you have to just go and do it because we define what is right and wrong.
And that's what's going on right now in this trial.
I mean, even the laws that they're trying to use against Trump really haven't ever been ever been used before.
This is extreme at the end at the end.
If it weren't so serious, I'd find it sort of fascinating what's going on.
But I sort of, you know, without dealing with support for one candidate over the other at this point, I sort of can't help but saying, you know, I hope Trump does well because I think somebody that needs to be pointed out are the people who are telling the biggest lies.
Yeah, that's true.
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Before I finish up, Dr. Paul, I do want to put up one more item, which is Ron Paul Scholars Seminar.
That's our last clip.
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Click on there, learn about the scholars' seminar.
If you're in the category, please put in an application.
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My final word, Dr. Paul, and I'm sorry I'm yapping so much.
I do, and I have been so remiss.
I do want to thank our commenters, the people who are having live chat during the site.
Thanking Our Super Chatters 00:02:22
I have not done it enough.
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Dr. Paul, over to you.
Very good.
You know, as I mentioned earlier, I talk a lot about, you know, nihilism, where you have no rules, no regulations, and you don't believe in truth.
But I want to mention what the alternative is.
And that is a higher law.
A higher law sometimes is referred to as a natural law.
And the founders understood it and knew about it.
But it was well known a lot longer than that.
Matter of fact, you can go back five, 6,000 years, and there was indication in the original laws that were written recognized that there was a higher law that established the principles of no lie, cheating, stealing, and killing.
And that's really basically it.
And that could be recognized as non-aggression, no right to destroy other people's lives.
So that is an alternative.
But is it one that is magic and is going to be all-inclusive?
No, it's one that is just a goal.
It's the idealistic goal, but you have, you know what it's supposed to be like.
You know where the aim is, and the people know what they should do to help make this a better world.
It's not like a nihilist knows what they're doing.
They're destroying a higher natural law because generally that wins over the idea that a dictator should dictate everything.
But they do this, and I think that the people who are nihilistic, they're ruthless and they will do anything to maintain the power because to them it's like a religious belief.
It's really very dedicated to it and that is why I think we have to combat it with a better system, with an ideological struggle to show why ideas do have consequences far superior than the armies that only work temporarily and usually for evil.
I want to thank everybody for tuning in today to the Liberty Report.
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