America's Founders did not delude themselves into believing that government was a moral institution with a responsibility to take care of people. They understood that government was violent force, and that the best way individuals to thrive was to chain that force down as much as possible. Those chains have obviously been removed, and the terrible results should not be a surprise. Ron Paul discusses on today's Liberty Report.
America's Founders did not delude themselves into believing that government was a moral institution with a responsibility to take care of people. They understood that government was violent force, and that the best way individuals to thrive was to chain that force down as much as possible. Those chains have obviously been removed, and the terrible results should not be a surprise. Ron Paul discusses on today's Liberty Report.
Hello everybody and thank you for tuning in to the Liberty Report.
With me today is Chris Rossini, co-host.
Chris, welcome to the program.
Good morning, Dr. Paul.
Very good.
I want to deal with a different subject today, not a precise event or issue or legislation or something of that sort, but more generalized.
And it has to do with everything that we do because it has to do with the nature of government.
I imagine most people in this country have heard and endorsed the principle that governments can't legislate morality.
Makes a lot of sense.
And most people think that, oh, well, yeah, they shouldn't come in and tell us when to go to church, when not to.
But quite frankly, I think we're way too much involved in governments being involved in legalizing activity and are justifying everything on moral terms and not necessarily in a positive sense.
Both liberals do it and conservatives do it, you know, with the different issues, but they're always saying, you know, we have to do this for moral reasons.
We have to have economic redistribution of wealth because that takes care of the people and it's charitable to do so.
Same way on foreign policy they do this.
So Chris, I'm sure you've heard this term many times and what I'd like to talk a little bit today about the morality of the people and then deal with the subject of how do you have a moral government and how do you precisely draw the lines?
Yes, well, unfortunately, most people have government and its role completely backwards.
It's not Mother Teresa out there to help the poor despite all the advertising.
You know, this is not a moral institution.
America's founders knew this right away.
Even if you just, you mentioned foreign policy, recent foreign policy, our government has been caught red-handed arming and funding terrorists over in Syria and they're a part of the genocide in Yemen.
This is not morality.
So to run to government to legislate morality is like running to them for gun control when they're the biggest gun salesman in the world.
So yeah, the role of government definitely is reversed today.
Yeah, and I think that people need to narrow down their understanding about why government shouldn't legislate morality.
They're not talking about being involved in violence among the people because if you're going to have a government, that's one of the things the government would be involved.
And that is to deal with people who are viciously violent and stealing and killing and shooting people.
But when it comes to interfering in people's personal lives, they can't make this judgment and say, well, what they're doing is harmful to themselves and harmful to their families.
So therefore, we want to make sure they don't gamble because that's a bad thing to do.
We want to make sure they don't smoke marijuana cigarettes.
We have to make sure they don't drink too much alcohol.
And of course, they tried that alcohol thing with a moral tone that they shouldn't do it.
And we're going to legislate this morality, no drinking of alcohol.
It was a total disaster.
Today we have the total disaster of governments being involved on war on drugs.
And drugs are horrible.
We need a war on drugs, but not by the U.S. government or any government because they make things worse.
And you can't really legislate this sense of personal morality.
You can't do this in education.
You can't do it philosophically.
You can't do it in religion.
You can't do it in personal habits, social habits, sexual habits.
And this is where we should not be involved.
But at the same time, here we have governments doing it all the time.
You know, when it comes to medical, just think of what they do in medical care.
They legalize and try to make medical care free and equal.
And they come up with Obamacare, which says that people that don't need the services, whether it's OB care or whatever, or passing out birth control pills, they tell some people, you will pay for birth control pills, and the government will force the insurance companies to give birth control pills to everybody.
Government's Role in Virtue and Vice00:04:01
And then somebody will come up with a moral reason, well, I don't want to do it.
It's against my religion.
So they argue, well, this is a religious freedom.
And it really isn't.
It becomes the immorality of government using force to be involved in personal decisions in medical care or educational care.
So it's all mixed up there.
People shouldn't object to these forces because of religious freedom.
They should because of the principles of liberty and defining what the role of government ought to be, because the government should not use force to redistribute wealth or to tell people how to live.
And government should be moral, and we'll talk a little bit about that moral principle that is necessary.
But it is not going to be one where the government has license to run the people's lives or run the economy and use force to do so, believing they'll make things better.
Because quite frankly, once you accept this idea, the government redistribution of wealth and this charitable nation, a nature of notion that for charitable reasons they're going to make sure people are safe and secure and they have a house over their head and everything else, turns out that it all fails.
And governments can't be charitable and only, and they shouldn't even call it charity.
Government has to have some rules laid out, but it cannot be permitted to use force to try to legislate morality, whether it's economics, whether it's personal, or whether it's overseas.
Yes, you and I both have an affinity for the founders of this country because they really got it.
They understood what government was.
And I have a few quotes from them.
George Washington said, government is not reason, it's not eloquence, it's force.
And this force, Thomas Paine, thought, was a necessary evil.
And it's interesting, he used the word evil.
So they had this force, and they were going to chain it down with the Constitution.
That was Jefferson's words, to chain it down.
And Adams said that only a moral people will be able to live under such a government, because if you're immoral, you'll remove the chains and let this force just run wild.
And it was finally Benjamin Franklin who said, when the people find out that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
And is that not, Dr. Paul, where we find ourselves today?
We're there, and Franklin also added that freedom only works with a virtuous people.
But you can't then say, defer to the government and say, oh, it won't work unless we have a virtuous people.
So we have to have the people, the government, make a virtuous people.
See, that's a total failure.
And that's what they try to do.
But there has to be a moral issue dealing with government.
What is the moral issue?
If they're not allowed to deal with promoting morality among the people, what is it?
Well, a moral people, a virtuous people, and those who believed in the Constitution would be then a reflection on the government itself.
And the government becomes more Virtuous in the sense that they have to follow a rule.
And the whole thing is, is that governments should not have any right or any authority to be involved in the redistribution of wealth and interference in personal lives.
And if we allow the government to redistribute wealth and do all these things, then it eliminates liberty.
That's the sacrifice of liberty.
As soon as you give that right to the government, and that's why we're at the position now we've granted too much of this authority to government to legislate morality in the economic sense, in the personal sense, and we end up with loss of liberty.
Legislating Morality?00:04:26
And the worse things get, and the worse the economy gets, the more demands are.
And of course, what happens to society?
The distribution of life of this distribution of wealth then becomes more distorted, and that's where we are.
We don't have a middle class, we have a large poor class, we have more wealthy people, and they're still thinking, well, it's lack of this moral imperative of government.
They're not managing it well.
We need to give more authority to government rather than saying, no, what we need is for the people to work for what they have and for people to be virtuous and honest and they would become more wealthy.
Under those circumstances, they're always more charitable.
And there's total evidence that the freer a society is, the more prosperous it is.
So we unfortunately have drifted into this position that we're totally dependent on the government and the government can do things that we can't do.
Bastiat was just great on this issue.
He talked about illegal plunder.
The illegal plunder was stealing from other people and that was accepted.
Most people even today accept, well, no, you're not supposed to do it personally.
But legal plunder, when you legalize it by law, not morally and not constitutionally, but legal plunder means that the people have conceded to the government that they can do things that you and I can't do.
The book, The Law, is, I think, a fantastic book, and he deals with is what is the moral principle of the law?
The government can't do things that you and I can't do.
And if it's illegal and moral for us to do it, why is it that we grant so much power to the government?
We're not allowed to counterfeit money and tell people, well, this is real money and counterfeit it.
No, that's illegal.
But we allow the Federal Reserve to counterfeit money all the time.
And the government's initiating force all the time.
When you think of all the rules and regulations, our prisons are overflowing and it's an industry now.
Many people believe that because there's a lot of individuals, both government and private, who benefit with full prisons, that there's actually, you know, a precise effort to make sure the prisons are full.
So governments are doing things that they shouldn't be doing.
And this principle that Bastiat talks about, I think, is a very sound principle.
Yes, I want to second The Law by Bastiat.
It was one of the first books that I read a few decades ago that got me really interested in libertarianism.
And I actually have that quote in front of me.
He says, when plunder becomes a way of life, men create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
So that's exactly just to echo what you've said.
We have the Obamacare, it's legalized plunder.
The Federal Reserve, legalized plunder.
Wars, global legalized plunder.
And all of it is glorified, just as Bastiat warned.
Yes, and sort of to wind this down a little bit to clarify this is that the people have to be moral if we want to live in a free society.
Governments can't make people moral and virtuous.
But there's a very precise moral principle that the people should impose on government.
And the moral principle is that governments cannot commit aggression.
We're not allowed to commit aggression, and the government can't do it either.
And yet that is what the government does.
So very, very simply, it's a principle of non-aggression that should apply to the government, just not to the people.
And Chris, do you have a closing comment?
Yes, I guess we should also start with ourselves.
Catch yourself.
If you're thinking there ought to be a law or government should, catch yourself because that's part of the problem.
Live and let live.
That's the libertarian way.
And the government will follow if more people live that way.
And that reminds me, Chris, so often that we have a problem pops up and the government will take care of it.
And they never ask another question.
Who's the government?
The people of the government.
How do they get the money?
Well, they steal it.
No, they never do that.
So it is a very, very precise moral issue on what is happening.
Chris, I want to thank you very much for being with us today.